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How to Have Empathy – a conversation with Dr Roxanne Daleo Stress Reduction Expert
0 Playsin 11 hours
Exploring empathy and understanding how to teach empathy.
After a career in paediatric health care Roxanne Daleo decided to focus on helping children and the adults who care for them to manage their stress levels by understanding themselves and other people.
That explains Roxanne in this episode of the Abeceder work life balance podcast Rest and Recreation is a good summary of what empathy is.
Roxanne tells host Michael Millward why people who understand how to use empathy will have lower stress levels.
She also explains how behaviours that restrict empathy are often the result of a traumatic experience.
This is ideal podcast listening for adults who care for a tantrum throwing child or truculent teenager.
Discover more about Roxanne and Michael at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
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Introduction to 'Rest and Recreation' Podcast
00:00:23
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abbasida. I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida.
Teaching Empathy through Creative Arts Therapy
00:00:36
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Today, I'm going to be finding out about how to teach someone empathy from Dr. Roxanne Dalio. Roxanne is based in Boston, Massachusetts in the United States of America.
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00:00:49
Speaker
I've not visited the Boston in Massachusetts, but when I do go, I will make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays. The list goes on.
00:01:03
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You can also access those trade prices on travel by joining the Ultimate Travel Club. And there is a link, as you would expect, with a built-in discount in the
Podcast's Thought-Provoking Aim
00:01:12
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description. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Rest and Recreation that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:23
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As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, our aim is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. Hello Roxanne.
00:01:33
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Hello, how are you Michael? I am ah very well, thank you very much and I hope that you can say the same. Yes, indeed. Beautiful day here in Boston. Nice. And a nice day here in Boston in the UK as well.
00:01:47
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Please could we start by you answering that question, what it is that you do?
Arts and Play in Stress Management
00:01:51
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Well, I help anxious children and parents calm down with natural methods. I got started as a young grad working as a creative arts therapist in a general pediatric hospital where kids came in with anxieties and stressors and really pain of all kinds.
00:02:13
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And through an effort to reach them emotionally, I found that the arts and play was their natural medium for self-expression. And it got me to really investigating as I worked with them more and more.
00:02:30
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What is the research about the the mind and the imagination and why is it a powerful tool for opening a child's mind to the power within and helping them to help themselves.
00:02:42
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So now that's what I do. I actually help children who are normally developing ah to really learn life skills in stress management and working with, I would say, the educated heart.
00:02:57
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learning how to educate the heart of the child as well as the mind. Yes. And one of those life skills is empathy. But I think at the moment we're recording this in the week that the United Kingdom announces the examination results for 16 year olds. And our papers are full of celebrities saying, don't worry, If you didn't get the grades that you expected, it's not the end of the world. I'm reminded that it's not the end of the world because you know if you've got empathy, if you've got interpersonal skills and communication skills, they're just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the skills being able to pass an exam, of knowing how to use an apostrophe, for example. These are really important skills that I think it's ah it's it's great that if if children can learn them early.
00:03:52
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Agreed, agreed. One of these soft skills is empathy. And i suppose we should start by asking, well, what is
Simple Acts of Empathy for Kids
00:04:03
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empathy?
00:04:03
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Empathy is, as um Webster defines it, the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. It seems simple enough, but actually from preschool, it requires awareness on the part of a teacher.
00:04:21
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to actually help a child to do just that, to really appreciate the feeling of another. And let me say, this is an easy method that I have used with preschoolers. Something as simple as taking um a piece of fruit, a banana,
00:04:40
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asking the child to break it in half and give one half to a friend and to look at the face of the person when they share their banana, whatever it is,
00:04:53
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And to bring the attention to the facial expression, usually the child will smile if they're given the half of the banana. And that's a wonderful beginning because our childhood shapes every aspect of our health. And when we begin to really cultivate awareness of the innermost feelings,
00:05:18
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It's a way for children to begin understanding the feeling of another. They see it. They can see it. That's what you want to do. You want to bring it to light.
00:05:29
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Sometimes, you know, Roxanne, you say the simplest things, but they, they actually sort of like start this huge torrent of thoughts in my head. What you just said about, you know, asking a child to share a piece of fruit, some food with another child and asking them to notice the, the facial expressions of the other person when they give someone something. Yes.
00:05:58
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is such a simple sort of gesture thing to say, but it's like more adults should also do that as well. yeah it's it's It's validation of the action that you have taken, isn't it?
00:06:14
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Yes. You do something for someone else and in the process of telling them that you've done it and the process of the presentation of something that is unexpected or expected, but appreciated, putting your energy and focus into how that person is reacting almost adds more to what you have done for them because you've made them the center of your attention.
00:06:41
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Exactly, exactly.
Mental Health vs Physical Health
00:06:44
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And I believe that, you know, this is a part of cultivating mental health, that mental health is more important than physical health because it affects not only our immune system,
00:06:57
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but also our sense of of connectedness. And that's what we want to do with starting with youngsters. I'll go through the age groups, but basically that's how I begin to offer concrete, in tangible ways for teachers and parents to help their children learn about empathy.
00:07:22
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Seeing of the issue from someone else's perspective, it brings to mind that Native North American saying about, before you judge someone, walk a mile in their moccasins.
00:07:34
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Absolutely. That's perfect. Yes. It is exactly that though, isn't it? it's You've got to actually see life from the other person's perspective in order to demonstrate empathy. Exactly, exactly. And, you know, what drives our perspective really has for most kids to do with their sense of overwhelm and anxiety, which...
00:08:00
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forces their attention away from the moment, away from what's happening right in front of them. And that stress overwhelm has a real cost because children don't just melt down or miss school as a side product ah byproduct of anxiety.
00:08:20
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It's their sense of self that goes unhealed and it ripples into teen years and adulthood. That is why I ask, what is your child doing? How are they behaving? Do they have friends? Why does that matter?
00:08:36
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Because behaviors can become identity. And when you know how your child is reacting, it's a it's a signal to tune into empathy and more lessons that are helpful, life lessons.
00:08:58
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You're making me remember something that I said when I was talking to a head teacher about doing a presentation in their school for school leavers who were about to enter the workforce. And of things that I said I was interested in was the people who were the bully in the workplace would have been the bully at school as well. It's something, it's a learnt behavior. Yes. that is a response to catalysts within their life, which means that they become, they look for someone to bully. And it's, I totally get what you mean.
00:09:32
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That's like the, the behaviors become identities and people may not want to be, but it's a very, very difficult sort of cycle to break once it's been started.
00:09:47
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Yes, that's that's one of the, I would say, objectives in teaching ah youngsters before their habits of behavior get too ingrained is really develop that empathetic, educated heart.
00:10:09
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Now, that makes me think that human beings are not like tigers. We're not animals that live by ourselves. We live in communities, family communities, extended families, and and
Is Empathy Innate?
00:10:22
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wider communities. And one of the things that makes those communities successful is our ability to get along with other people.
00:10:29
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So I'm starting to think that being empathetic, having empathy, must in some way be part of our natural makeup. in order to be a naturally collective type species.
00:10:42
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That's an interesting perspective. You don't think it's natural. ah think that i think it's I think empathy is something that must be part of our natural makeup. Our ability to be empathetic must be part of our natural makeup because we are a herd species. We we live with other human beings. So part of making that successful must be that we have empathy. And I suppose my question is more about this. It's like...
00:11:14
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Is it knocked out of us? Do we lose that ability because of the way in which we interact with other people by the lessons that we learn? I definitely think a lot of it has to do with the way we are reared and also school interactions and how a teacher might be helpful or hurtful in pointing out behaviors that are not, um,
00:11:41
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let's say mindful. i yes I can say that as a child, I had a severe reading difficulty. I struggled to just make sounds and sound out words. And it became part of my identity because i i felt like I was dumb, but I knew i I had smarts. I just really was at the mercy of the teacher giving me feedback on whether or not I had value. And that is where it begins. There were different teachers I had along the way who had a different way of handling my disability.
00:12:26
Speaker
And I know how children feel when their identity has been embroiled in a behavior that isn't, let's say, standard or appropriate, and it begins to erode their sense of esteem to a point where it can cause things like bullying to be their go-to reaction.
00:12:55
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If a child gets rewarded with attention for doing something wrong, then they're more likely to do more things wrong. So it's, it's not so much a case of today, we're going to learn empathy.
00:13:10
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People learn empathy by being shown empathy and they need to almost Gain attention for doing the right thing. Gain positive attention for doing the right thing. Mm-hmm.
00:13:27
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Rather than when you're busy, it's easier to focus on correcting the child who's done something wrong. Right. Rather than emphasizing, highlighting the child who's done something well, done something correctly. And you show empathy or the interest in children who are demonstrating what it is you've been trying to teach them.
00:13:54
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Mm-hmm. Exactly. i i use what I call the secret garden method with um parents. a great book that, The Secret Garden. Yes,
Secret Garden Method for Inner Peace
00:14:06
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yes. What's the secret garden method? Well, the secret garden method is to share with a child that um there is a place within them that is quiet and is peaceful and joyful and grows naturally.
00:14:23
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And when they learn to tend to this inner garden through simple practices, they are more likely to be connecting with their own sense of ah where they are in the world, the world.
00:14:41
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the universe because research shows that spiritual well-being is a protective factor against depression in youth. And when you begin to open a child's mind to the power within, the fe the sense that they are in the universe, but the universe is in them,
00:15:04
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you help them to reflect on the connection ah connecting actually with something greater than themselves and they build resilience that helps protect them from depression and emotional struggles And studies have shown that spiritual well-being is strongly linked to fewer depressive symptoms in young people.
00:15:28
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And this means that nurturing a child's spiritual life is not only uplifting for their spirit, but also protective for their mental health. And that's why, you know, we want to begin at an early age if we can.
00:15:46
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and What do you mean by spirituality and spiritual health? Well, it can be as it can be something as simple as going in nature and connecting with the beauty all around, ah leaning up against a tree and recognizing that there's a life force energy that is within the tree that you can access by touching that tree, that there's a tremendous life force that comes up from the roots. And if you have a child hold onto the trunk of the tree,
00:16:19
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And imagine that beautiful life force going up from the roots all the way up the trunk of the tree, out the branches to the tippy tippy top where all the leaves need to get that same energy to grow. that is accessing, in a way, some power that is within and around us that really does help us to get perspective on where we are in the world, in the universe, in in really accessing a sense of
00:16:59
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awe, and that will begin the conversation. Each parent has to decide how they want to instruct. I give you a a guideline on how to begin, but then you can understand that you know the spiritual life of the child is cultivated by experiential immersion First and foremost in nature, where life all around us reminds us of something greater than we are that put the stars and planets in the sky is the same energy that lives within us.
00:17:39
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Does that make sense? it it does make sense i'm remembering being in the rocky mountains being feeling very insignificant when i looked at the sheer rock faces that sort loomed up into the sky and you couldn't see the top or being in a desert where all you can see for mile after mile after mile is sand, you do become very much aware of your place in the world and that you are not the center of the world.
00:18:13
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The world is a great, big, magnificent place.
Nature's Role in Empathy and Growth
00:18:16
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And if you are very insular, very isolated from the world. So you spend your time playing computer games and watching TV and those sorts of activities with a face down in a, in a phone. Um, it's very easy, I suspect to become very, um, or It's very easy to start believing that you are something more than you actually are in reality and getting into nature, seeing tall mountains, tall trees, vast expanses of space, huge horizons.
00:18:57
Speaker
Does... start to make you realize that you really aren't the center of everything. And that us also leads to lead to all sorts of different things, like you're saying on the spirituality, the the understanding of how we we start to interact with our natural world. But that seeing how big the world is in comparison to yourself and that you're not the center of it is also a good way of helping people to learn empathy as well, I think.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes, of course.
Fostering Unique Talents for Self-Love
00:19:32
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And there is something that I i like to also ah ask parents to do, and that is um awaken a child to their gifts, their talents, their abilities, their When you recognize that you have been born with capacities, you cultivate self-love. Getting to know yourself to embrace your innate intelligence is an important um way to really demonstrate the correlation of what's happening in the nature
00:20:14
Speaker
with what happens with human development. just because ah Just as an acorn has within it the nature of the mighty oak tree, you are the nature of intelligence. You have within you an innate innate gifts, if you will.
00:20:33
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And that understanding of who you are keeps your spirit in touch with life's meaning and inherent worthiness which is the core of the spiritual development of the child yes i'm sitting here nodding as you're talking and but of course that doesn't work on a podcast but i get what you mean and it's it's like
00:21:06
Speaker
every Every single one of us is good at something. No one of us, not one of us is good at everything. But as you are going through an education process, you will start to find the things that you're good at and also the things that you're really could do a bit better at, but there'll be some things that you'll just never get your head around. Right, right. But I like to focus on the correlation between the mighty oak tree and something that I yeah i call that that life force energy when I begin to seduce children to how do they access something within themselves. It's the creative force within each of us that wants to find expression and
00:21:51
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And I say, what is your what is yours? What is your your creative force? dive into the arts such as music or writing, poetry, painting, sculpting.
00:22:05
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Discover the deeper powerful self to inspire new ideas and desires. What is it for you? that i agree with you. yeah That is my point almost in that when we discover that part of ourselves,
00:22:22
Speaker
That's the part that of ourselves that we can celebrate and other people can celebrate. And the other parts that aren't necessarily as prominent in our skill set, it doesn't matter if someone else who' is better at those things than we are. That's great that they are. Right. What we can do is understand that we are good at this and that enables us to shine, but also to understand that other people are good at the things that we might not be very good at.
00:22:55
Speaker
And we need to celebrate those as well. Right. Exactly. But you can't, I don't believe you can celebrate someone else's success until you've learned how to celebrate your own.
00:23:05
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that can be any skill. It can, but understanding how you fit in with the world, understanding the the unique gifts that you bring to the world, because there is only ever going to be one version of you. You have never existed before and you will never exist again. And you have something that is unique. That is the reason why you are here.
00:23:32
Speaker
Learning what that is, celebrating that, recognizing it in other people is another part of that learning of how to learn empathy.
00:23:43
Speaker
Exactly. It's well put, beautifully said. None of what you we've talked about in terms of learning empathy has involved sitting down in a classroom with a PowerPoint presentation. Right.
00:23:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's all about getting out and experiencing yourself and as part of something bigger.
00:24:07
Speaker
Yes. Isn't it? It's about understanding who you are as an individual. And I do believe that people can do that at a very young age. I agree. okay It's not the preserve of of middle-aged people in ah in a midlife crisis.
00:24:24
Speaker
it is You can do it health you when you're in primary school. Single-digit age children can learn what makes them special. Not special in an arrogant way. no What makes them, where they' where they're valuable, or how they're going to contribute to the group of people that they sit in that classroom with.
00:24:47
Speaker
Right, and to be proud of what it is that comes naturally. They can learn as they grow that whatever it is that they do that has time go by without realizing it, that they're totally involved completely in utterly into this particular activity. It could be dancing or yeah writing or music.
00:25:15
Speaker
but to know that there is something that really takes over them and it's part of who they are and how they express. Yes. But the key thing as well is that opening the door to that journey is the responsibility of parents and teachers.
Role of Adults in Celebrating Uniqueness
00:25:35
Speaker
Yes. In fact, any adult that that child interacts with has a responsibility to help them open that door and start that journey. Mm-hmm. Yes. Agreed. Agreed.
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah. You know, Roxanne, time flies. yeah Time absolutely flies when I'm talking to you. And that's a sign that I am doing something that is very enjoyable. And i have learned a lot.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yes, I have too. It's been a wonderful conversation. Thank you, Michael. And thank you very much as well. I must point out, we started off by saying that we both live in Boston's and the weather is very nice. I get the impression that you've you've either got the windows open or you're out on your porch. Yes, I am. I am out on the porch. Yes, I know. I can hear the traffic passing every so often. ah But today has been really good, Roxanne. Thank you very much. I do appreciate your time. Absolutely. My pleasure.
00:26:36
Speaker
Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida.
Conclusion and Acknowledgments
00:26:41
Speaker
In this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having a conversation with Roxanne Dalio, a childcare expert.
00:26:51
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abbasida.co.uk. There is a link in the description, along with a link to Roxanne's website as well. I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Roxanne Dalio.
00:27:05
Speaker
If you're a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like Roxanne, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great guests are made.
00:27:17
Speaker
There's a link to matchmaker and an offer code in the description. At Rest and Recreation we believe in health and happiness. We can't make you happy but one of the best ways to stay healthy is to know the risks early. That is why we recommend the health tests that are available from York Test, especially their annual health test.
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00:28:23
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Roxanne and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:28:36
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:28:49
Speaker
Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.