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Young Justice Season 1 Part 4 Ep 18-21
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We breakdown the penultimate arc (episodes 18-21)for Young Justice in our continued analysis of season one!
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Message
00:00:00
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Young Justice Overview and Hosts Introduction
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00:00:26
Speaker
On this episode of the Animation Deliberation, we're covering the penultimate episode arc of Young Justice season 1. So stay tuned for that. After some advertisements, we don't have any sayover. Alright.
00:00:41
Speaker
One, two, three. It's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah. Ooh, that falsetto. All right. All right. All right. Welcome back to the animation deliberation podcast, the podcast where we take action animation and cartoons seriously. I'm your host, Jay Scottie St. Clair. And today I am joined by my co-host, Zuhair Ali. How's it going, Zuhair?
00:01:10
Speaker
doing fantastic, how about yourself?
00:01:12
Speaker
Doing great, man, doing great.
Praise for Young Justice's Quality and Continuity
00:01:14
Speaker
We are continuing our coverage of Young Justice season one, and this was a show that you recommended to me, and I think I said it on the last episode, but as we continue to progress, I am just more and more impressed with the quality of the show and the continuity of the show. It's really starting to pay off, and I'm excited to get into these episodes here. Just before we- I was worried that I set the bar a little too high, so I'm glad that it's reaching that threshold now.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I guess before we really start to like dive into the episodes, why don't you just give your initial impressions on this arc as
The Mole Plot and Team Dynamics
00:01:50
Speaker
a whole? I know you said there was one episode in particular that kind of stood out to you, so we can use that as a jumping off point.
00:01:57
Speaker
Yeah. So the intent of this arc was that in the last episode that we covered, we spoke a lot about how the big concern of the team was that there was a mole and it was causing a lot of chaos between the team and they were finally like finding their mojo and then the whole concept of the mo was really bringing them apart. Uh, so that attention starts to start becoming problematic again.
00:02:22
Speaker
um so now that they finally got comfortable with the fact that okay there may not be a mole we should be good to go everyone seems to trust each other we start to see these individual stories and how much um these heroes are actually keeping from each other whether it be blackmail or personal issues or history or whatever the case may be everyone's
00:02:48
Speaker
got a burden that they're carrying now that's really affecting quality of the team and they still have the conversation of the leadership between Red Tornado, Batman, Robin, and Aqualad trying to figure out not only who it is, but if there even is one. Are they running around in circles right now? Are they being ineffective because they think there is one?
00:03:13
Speaker
there seems to still be one and we get to break down the characters who seem to have gotten their each to each have gotten their own episode about the things that they're bearing and enduring and how it's affecting the overall quality of the of the team.
Episode 'Secrets' and Character Exploration
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a fairly astute observation. You call them burdens. You might call them secrets, which I think is pretty apt given the first episode of this particular arc that we dive into is called secrets. You know, we've already had hints that Artemis has a secret past we know that she has a relationship with.
00:03:54
Speaker
Cheshire, who's with the League of Shadows or Assassins. Is it the League of Shadows or Assassins in this one? It's the League of Shadows in this one, which is a name I highly prefer. That's right. That's right. That's right. So yeah, Artemis obviously has her secrets. We found out that, you know, McGann is a lot more powerful than we initially thought, or that even her own uncle thought.
00:04:15
Speaker
But we also, there's a character that is not an official part of the team, but anybody that is familiar with the character of Shazam or Captain Marvel knows that he carries a big secret with him. And even though he hasn't been a major focal part of this season as a whole, he has had some really nice moments and some nice buildup. And I think it really started to pay off with what you described as your favorite episode of this season.
00:04:42
Speaker
which was called Misplaced, and that's kind of, we get almost like a, to make an allusion to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, we get a version of The Snap, right? I mean, they did it first, but yeah, it's essentially The Snap. What happens is you see, the funny part of this episode, I'm just gonna throw the hysterical thing real quick, is that because Batman doesn't have superpowers, he's automatically like the supervisor of everything, and everybody else does all the heavy
Zatanna's Struggles and Relationships
00:05:12
Speaker
lifting,
00:05:12
Speaker
right so the fact that they were moving boxes and it was like satara using his magic and retornia using his powers and batman's just like you working it's a great but one of the pick up on that i was laughing so hard i was watching that i was like this is one of the benefits to not having power is there's no manual labor you think i'm gonna pick up a box and you guys can handle it that's great it's like that's the whole don't touch my pile thing with tony and cat oh right right right don't take from my pile
00:05:43
Speaker
But yeah, to get into it a little bit, we were talking about how Zatanna was having the issue of her own type of
00:05:54
Speaker
lack of a better word, oppression. It seems like Zatara is a single dad and he's very protective of his daughter. Like she brings up the point of, I wish he would, like it takes so much for me to just be able to like come see you guys with him, like being a part of the team that's just like out of the question right now. And I wish that he would give me space.
00:06:19
Speaker
And then it cuts over to Batman talking about Zatanna to Zatara. You see the friendship that Batman and Zatara have. You see that they've been working with each other for quite some time. Like I said about this version of Batman is you get to see the emotional side a little bit. And it's really heartfelt about him talking about it. It's like I'm just scared for her. I don't want her to get in trouble. I don't want her to get hurt. She's my only child.
00:06:45
Speaker
and Zatanna's wish comes true at that point and half the population disappears anybody 18 or older is gone and then all of the children disappear and it turns out that the the evil sorcerers managed to make two dimensions in which the the adults are in one of the children or other and a lot of chaos is brewing through because the children
00:07:12
Speaker
don't have parents so they're just out in the streets like being a mess or they're unprotected like the much younger ones so the team as we spoke on the last episode have been giving opportunities to where they have to handle justice league level stuff like handling the injustice league was a big thing for them and now it's like
00:07:30
Speaker
There is no Justice League. We have to be the Justice League. We have to actually put ourselves out there and be the face of we're here to help you while the Justice League themselves are so overwhelmed with the riots and everything going on around the world because it's adults.
Young Heroes Rise to the Challenge
00:07:48
Speaker
causing chaos and being in the United States like you can you have a good idea of what riots go on like over here especially these days so um and then it was just it was it was crazy seeing that divide in the fear and like just the emotion the emotional response of i don't have my kids and like trying to raid star labs and the adults trying to figure out how to like maintain everything it was
00:08:15
Speaker
It was a really, really powerful episode on how much people had to step up at the time of chaos, whether it be the league or the team. They were they were very much equals in the scenario. Yeah, that's, that's very true. And that's something we've kind of, we, a trajectory we've seen taking place over the course of the season, even though, you know,
00:08:35
Speaker
Aquilad, Robin, and Kid Flash, and chiefly Speedy, or at that point in time he was Speedy, now we know him as Red Arrow, they very much thought that they were ready to function as full members of the team. And we've slowly seen the maturation of that, of them being considered equals to the Justice League. But I thought it was a really nice moment when they did have that broadcast to kind of
00:08:57
Speaker
reach out to all the kids and kind of calm them in the wake of all this destruction and chaos that it was Robin, Aqualad, and Kid Flash that got to do that broadcast. It was kind of nice to harken back to this original founding trio for the team. But I did want to rewind a little bit and go back to that moment with Zatanna because the way they played that moment I thought was really interesting. It's like she says she wishes that he would give him some space. And the way he like disappears right then and there
00:09:24
Speaker
On a first watch, you could seriously believe that she did something. We already know that she's a powerful magician type character. So it's played very interestingly there. And it's the fact that I think this is the first time we've seen her since her first foray with the team, with the Red Siblings, correct? Yeah, that seems accurate. Because Zatanna, or Zatara, I should say, basically felt like
00:09:51
Speaker
they kidnapped her, which is part of the reason he holds so much of a grudge against them. But I did like the way that you basically got to see both scenes from completely different perspectives. We're following two characters chiefly through this episode, that being Zatanna. It's kind of her emotional journey. It's kind of her relationship with her father coming to terms with the fact that
00:10:21
Speaker
his protectiveness is just a love for her and he just ends up making a pretty big sacrifice for her. But then on the other side of the coin we do have the character of Captain Marvel
00:10:32
Speaker
which I really love the way everything came full circle here because they planted so many seeds, especially in like, we'll talk about it more, but in the Halloween episode, he was so disappointed that he wanted to get to be a part of the party. But really nice to see Billy Batson, you know, function outside of his,
00:10:54
Speaker
Captain Marvel role and actually use his wits, the things that made him worthy of the mantle of, you know, the wisdom of Solomon and the speed of Mercury and whatnot. It's nice to see him use his wits. And then, you know, both the league and the team acknowledge the value that he has in both realms.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah, like one of the things about that we love about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is just kind of like nothing's ever put there by accident. And you we talked about on the last episode, just how much Shazam was like slowly becoming like he was getting because now that we know for a fact that he's a 10 year old, you see why he connects with the team so well compared to the league, he's learned a lot from the league.
00:11:38
Speaker
Um, but him working with the team has been such a huge factor because he can emotionally, Billy Batson can relate to them as much as Shazam can. So it, those episodes for him to be the den mother for a little bit and build that relationship with them was a very crucial sense because he was the only one that was able to bounce between both worlds. And you see how much, um,
00:12:04
Speaker
What impresses me is how much they're able to keep secrets. Like, they've pretty much confirmed that nobody except for KF knows even Batman's identity.
00:12:14
Speaker
right right robin is still a secret like barely anybody knows who he is um even within the team they just call him robin and he always has his shades on when he's off duty per se he wears the sunglasses at night but a lot of people didn't know who billy baton was and when he just popped up in the middle of the layer they were just like who are you and it's like read my mind
00:12:36
Speaker
And you see this 10-year-old have so much training that he was kind of like, oh wait, what's the solution right now? How do I deal with this before they start kicking my ass? It's like, read my mind. Oh, do I have to bring you cheese plates or whatever just to appeal to you, KF? And it's like, oh, you actually are. This is a big secret, but it's like, we don't have time to go into the logistics of it because there is a very big international crisis going on at the moment.
00:13:02
Speaker
Well, yeah, those are those are all great points and I love the insight that you have about Captain Marvel Billy Batson kind of playing that
00:13:14
Speaker
He really is essential to the team and to the Justice League, almost acting as that liaison. He really can relate to them on both an emotional and a friendship level. But a couple other things that stood out to me in this episode, there was some dialogue that I really appreciated.
00:13:31
Speaker
regarding the the helmet of dr. Fate it's been really cool the the way they've worked in the character of dr. Fate because he was a character that I was not super super familiar with I knew he was I think I mentioned before my my main exposure to him was through the injustice games but it's been really really cool to get that that context and that backstory about how you know the the helmet actually works and that it it's it's
00:14:02
Speaker
There's more, I guess, what's the word I'm looking for? There's more weight than
Zatanna's Sacrifice and Emotional Impact
00:14:06
Speaker
there are to a lot of other heroes, you know? Heroes usually have some kind of sacrifice that their powers come to, but this one is much more tangible in the fact that the person that puts on the helmet, they're basically gone. They have to give up their body for this otherworldly force to inhabit, I should say.
00:14:26
Speaker
But anyway, the line of dialogue is we get it from two different characters basically. We get both Kid Flash and Aqualad, the two people we've seen wear the helmet so far. Kid Flash is like, how desperate are we?
00:14:37
Speaker
And Hawk-Wilad goes into this almost three-minute paragraph of exposition where he basically describes what I just said, what the helmet does. And he's like, OK, if we put it on, we're basically saying goodbye to somebody. And then so, yeah, Kid Flash is like, OK, not that desperate. And then just a few minutes later, we get both, it's Batman and Zatara, I believe, that are right in front of the helmet as well. And they decide the same thing. It's like, how desperate are we? Not that desperate.
00:15:07
Speaker
The other thing that stood out to me on the first time I watched it, I didn't pick up on it, but on a rewatch, it was solidified for me and it was kind of obvious, but we actually saw SportsMaster uncostumed with the adults. I was trying not to say that because I wasn't sure if you like caught on to it on the viewing. So I was like, I'm going to keep my mouth shut in case. But yeah, I'm glad you picked up on that because one of the things that I noted too was like,
00:15:36
Speaker
you take a kid away from somebody's parents and like all hell will break loose so like all these adults were like out in the streets they were like who do we blame right now and you see this like passionate dialogue of scar labs has to do something with this it's always their fault and like then you find out that it's him like leading on this riot because he like walks away and has a smile that makes the opening for him to make his robbery right
00:16:00
Speaker
Like I said, I think I've probably watched the season like five or six times, but something I noticed for the first time today, or as I watched this was the scientist who was talking to the crowd. Do you think that was Dr. Stone?
00:16:16
Speaker
who victor stones dad who you know i i have to go back and rewatch now it has it's not something i considered but you know given his his deep connections to star labs and you've you've already said nothing there's no small detail in the show it's yeah i think
00:16:33
Speaker
You would know better than I would, but I think that's definitely a thread that if it's not, hopefully when we get season four down the road, or maybe I'll find out in season two or three, that would be pretty cool if that was a thread that they planted that early on.
00:16:47
Speaker
Yeah, because like I said, they've been doing such a good job of like in like certain like high school scenes, like showing heroes that will show up later or when there's like the international things like we've seen Guy Gardner come up and one scene just to help out. We've seen icon and someone whose character I miss, who's escaping my head at the moment.
00:17:12
Speaker
Oh, it's like the bubbles and stuff. I think it's like my daughter. Rocket. Rocket. Yes. Thank you. Cool. So it's like you see these like subtle little nods and then when I looked at that one, I'm just like, star labs.
00:17:27
Speaker
Uh, not to stereotype, but there's a black doctor in a lab suit talking to everybody. Oh, maybe that is him. That little thing was just like, huh, I've watched this so many times. I'm just not picking up on that. Yeah. We'll have to, uh, we'll have to see if Silas stone makes his debut in, uh, in season four. But if you called it now, I'm going to be impressed. Yeah.
00:17:55
Speaker
So the other thing, other than, I guess I'll take this opportunity, in addition to getting Dr. Fate back in this episode, we also got Clary and the Witch Boy back. And I'll admit, in his first appearance, I didn't know how to take the voice actor. He was obviously talented, but it's a very unique performance, but I definitely appreciated it more.
00:18:22
Speaker
in this episode. He's got a very unique voice that does a good job of balancing the wickedness of the character, but also the childlike nature. The character is having a blast at what he's doing. And I like that even when he gets foiled at the end, he's like, ah, well, it was fun while it lasted. Yeah, right? The way he talks to his cat and everything too, he's like, come here.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, Diggle I think is his name. Come on, Diggle. But the parallel to Infinity War with the snap we made, I couldn't help but make another parallel because in Infinity War we saw the antagonist or
00:19:02
Speaker
you could argue that Thanos is the protagonist, but that's an entirely different conversation, ends up being successful in his scheme. We see the heroes actually fail. And in the stinger of this episode, we find out that Clarion was ultimately successful. He was just there to provide a distraction. And that little scene that we got with SportsMaster, which, you know, in the context of just the episode might have seemed somewhat insignificant, actually
00:19:30
Speaker
seems like it has some pretty lasting through lines in terms of this whole overarching villain we have in the light. Which in all honesty, I'll give you the opportunity again to correct me if I'm wrong here about why you decided to chop up the episodes the way you did. But I have to imagine part of the reason you did these particular episodes is we kind of see the light take a little bit of a backseat in these particular episodes. Would you agree?
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, because at this point, the injustice league is what was in the spotlight. With their chaos, everybody was very focused on them, what they're doing in prison, making sure that they're checked so that the light can start operating in the background again. Right.
00:20:15
Speaker
And they, Batman's pointed out like, yeah, like you see that the injustice league still has allies like sports master who are still like up to something, but we don't know what, but they think it's the injustice league and their allies and not so much looking at who the light actually are.
00:20:34
Speaker
Right, right. In that case, they were successful in using the Injustice League as a scapegoat. Yeah. I guess the only other thing I really have for this particular episode is a question. What was the souvenir kid flash got in this episode? I didn't recognize it. It looked like a vessel of some kind, almost like a perfume bottle. Did you know what that was? It was like a blue and yellow vessel of some type with a button on the top.
00:21:04
Speaker
in the misplaced episode? Yes. Oh, it must be the sippy cup. Yep. It was given to Wally by a toddler. He rescued, he used it to replace the helmet of fate. Okay. Oh yeah. Okay. Weird looking sippy cup, I will say.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah. Cause he was, man, they did such a good job like playing with the kids, like in the gymnasium. It was so cute. Like Artemis was singing the lullabies and then she forgot the words. She mixed it up and then they're like, that's not that song. And they kept bringing it in. And I'm so, I'm so glad you bring that up because while it was played as a moment for laughs and cuteness, I couldn't help but like think like Artemis didn't have a childhood. Why doesn't she know the lyrics to like the words to such a simple like
00:21:48
Speaker
song. And there was like a moment of sadness. And I was like, Oh, man. Yeah, that's what's Yeah, that's what's so great about the show. It's no, no moment is without its nuance. So multiple, multiple things are being broadcast with with every second of screen time. It's it's really well done. Everything shows its emotional backlash. And that being said, like,
00:22:09
Speaker
you see the team and what little faction of the Justice they were fighting. They were struggling with their villains a lot. I mean, Zatara just fucking lightly balding everybody was so badass. I was like,
00:22:22
Speaker
man, this dude is powerful. But the witch boy was definitely stronger than his allies. And they were definitely the team was having a very difficult time going up against him. And you see Zatanna herself hasn't seen the ramifications of the helmet. So when she was like, that's all I need to know and just
00:22:47
Speaker
puts it on just so confidently, like everyone else is freaking out, but she's like, I helped you guys out.
00:22:54
Speaker
And then even at that point, because Nobu is so old, but Zatanna is so old, he wasn't at full capacity, so they were still struggling. Well, yeah, it was that and the fact that the helmet was divided between two dimensions as well. I believe Clarion said, you know, you're unstable. Yeah, that's why it was splitting because of the age. Right.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah. So when they finally hit
00:23:25
Speaker
MVP to Shazam for like diving in grabbing the stone and then switching over to the other world. Like that was really impressive. Like the way they were able to communicate with each other through him was amazing. Um, but then Zatara having to make the deal with Dr. Fate cause Dr. Fate's just fed up. And again, I think he's very egotistical and thinking that just because he's around, that means there aren't going to be any like magic issues.
00:23:51
Speaker
Because that's his whole thing. It's like, look at how much magic stuff happens when I'm not here to intervene.
00:23:57
Speaker
It's like, all right, buddy, get your head, get your helmet out of your ass. Um, but man, the, the, the trauma of Zatara just really wanting his daughter to be safe and him looking straight at Batman. And he was like, like promise me, you'll take care of my kid. And she was like, I'm like, I swear to you. So like.
00:24:22
Speaker
Man just everything about then she takes the helmet off and she's like so happy to see your dad and that they won and it was just like Always loving you was just gone and Zatana just loses her shit at that point. Yeah has to move in with the team I guess she's officially part of the team at this point and the part that that hit me hardest is through this episode Before Dick Grayson just had a crush on her, but you can see how much he actually cares
00:24:50
Speaker
cares about her, like it's more than just a crush at this point. And we're assuming that Zatanna doesn't have a mom, which is why she moved in with the team so quick. Right. And Robin being the last one in the room. And her saying like, Hey, I want to be alone for a little bit so she can cry. And like when she when when Dick Grayson walks out and looks back,
00:25:15
Speaker
That's when you remember, he's been an orphan since he was nine. He's watched his parents get killed at Haley surface, Haley circus, excuse me. And like Robin just understands that trauma all too well. And like, he, you see it in that even with the sunglasses on, it's like, he wants to help because he understands, but it's like, just, just got to let her ride it through it. It's just, dude.
00:25:42
Speaker
Like talking about it is like doing something to me right now. It's just it's such a powerful scene It really is and even even the moment before that when Zatanna does make the the sacrifice, you know to become the new doctor fate to save See I keep I keep switching Zatanna and Zatara. It's very difficult. It's tough. Yeah, it's just one letter Papa Z. Yeah Papa Z but
00:26:08
Speaker
I just kudos to you know the animators as well as the the voice actor and like it's it's everything working in unison to create such a poignant moment because it's a character that we we have really not spent that much screen time with
00:26:24
Speaker
but they are still able to pull off one of the most emotional moments of the entire season so far with me. You know, just the way that he's got those piercing green eyes and the way his expression just drops and he's got, you can just see it in his eyes when he's, you know, he's saying goodbye to his daughter for the final time. It's not lost on me at all, the nature of his sacrifice. And for a kids, well, again, and again, that's, it's a kids show, but the level of entertainment and the writing
00:26:54
Speaker
is a high enough bar to entertain a person like myself that's, you know, has been watching acclaimed television for a number of years now, so, yeah. Excellent moment. I can make a grown man cry. I got this man, get back in there, tear. If you're not seeing Clyde with a chance to meet, pause, but that line is always so relevant to moments like this. Oh, okay. I'm not crying, I'm not crying, I'm not crying, get back in there.
00:27:20
Speaker
I know Lord and Miller, they did Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. And yeah, they're great. They're great. Did you have any other major characters you wanted to highlight for this particular episode misplaced? Or any other highlights?
00:27:38
Speaker
No, I think I'm good with this but uh talking about Zatanna and trauma and Dealing with her family. I think this kind of goes into the episode before hmm where we have a Halloween episode of Zatanna and Artemis yes girls night out yes
00:28:02
Speaker
So yeah, we can kind of shift gears to Artemis. Tell me what you thought about that opening scene with...
Halloween Party and Team Secrets
00:28:12
Speaker
Oh, it was the opening scene where basically everybody's ready for the party and including Artemis and Zatanna. They both kind of enter at the same time. And I believe Artemis is a vampire and Zatanna is a witch, which is pretty appropriate for her power set. And right off the bat, she's just kind of like, how long have Connor and Megan been a thing?
00:28:35
Speaker
What struck me is, I won't say odd, but it was a good character reveal because we saw that moment on the first mission with Artemis with the team where she had a little bit of friction with McGahn when she flirted with Superboy. But I just thought it was good fun and not too serious, but she seemed genuinely upset.
00:28:56
Speaker
by the fact that and I don't know if that was because she was interested in Superboy or the fact that her team was keeping secrets and if it is the latter it's a little hypocritical but that is that's that's kind of what's nice about this show they are not fully matured characters they are full of flaws and hypocrisy very well could be one for
00:29:15
Speaker
for Artemis, but I really like seeing Artemis and Zatanna strike up this friendship. We were just kind of talking about the characters. Zatanna, she's already got a real nice rapport with Robin. Robin's been kind of a source of stability with her, but it's cool to see her have fun with a character like Artemis, who she hasn't even been on the team the entire time, but she's already presented herself as a really fun and sarcastic character, which I love.
00:29:41
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. She's like, the Thomasine says to be the type to be like, okay with getting out in trouble. She's like, well, it seems a little dangerous. How about we go do it? And Portia's saying, I'm just wanting to spend time with the youngins and whatnot. And it's like, oh, I didn't realize that Justice League was having a party. It's like, oh, no, I want to go with, I want to go with you guys. It's like, oh, you don't have to hold up with us. Like, have fun. We're going out tonight. It's like, oh, all right. Just be this 10 year old by myself.
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah. He's so disappointed. And it's so awkward, too, because the Tanner's like, oh, is the Justice League having a party? My dad didn't say anything about that. And I guess at this point, too, we still have Kid Flash being a little bit of a creeper around McGann. So I guess after Artemis finds out about them being a couple, Kid Flash is the only one left
00:30:39
Speaker
in the dark at this point, so. Yeah. But with those three characters, it's a more lighthearted affair for them. They go to this Halloween party at Happy Harbor, the high school that Connor and Megan attend, and it's
00:30:59
Speaker
Just your kind of typical high school dance with the shenanigans and whatnot. There's a Tho Martian invasion prank that goes on and you get a really nice moment where McGann gets to actually transform into the Warner Brothers Marvin the Martian, which the reference was not lost on me that the character, the student that was pulling the prank, his name was Marvin and he was obsessed with Martians and he gets terrified by Marvin the Martian.
00:31:26
Speaker
Yeah, that definitely cracked me up. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, as I was kind of alluding to, it's not really their episode. I mean, as much as they get into the Halloween shenanigans, and this is a Halloween episode, it's really Artemis and Zatanna's episode, I would say. And they face off against a character that I was entirely unfamiliar with until watching the show, which is harm. Did you know anything about harm prior to watching the show? I can't imagine you did. Nope. Yeah.
00:31:55
Speaker
Yeah. So he's pretty interesting and unique.
Harm's Philosophy and Confrontation
00:32:00
Speaker
I don't think he, or at this point in time, he has absolutely no connection to the light. So it's kind of interesting that he's a one-off villain in that regard. It's kind of unique for the series. But I guess his whole shtick is that he's pure of heart. And that doesn't mean he's pure good. He's pure evil. And yeah, he collects this sort of Beowulf
00:32:21
Speaker
And the impression I got is that he has made sacrifices to become pure of heart and to become this ultimate warrior. And I guess I can't really remember how he ends up crossing paths with Artemis and Zatanna. They're just out on patrol, you know, stopping crimes here and there where he sees them and attacks them, right?
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah they were in Manhattan and they were trying to blow off some steam so they were trying to find the criminals and beat him up and he was just kind of surveying and it was like oh this is a challenge but he makes the point to say like oh you are the apprentices of Green Arrow and Zatara I will I will kill you slowly so that I can learn about your mentors it's like
00:33:08
Speaker
So it's like now that he has the power of Beowulf sword, he wants to test the full capability of it. Quick design thing that I want to point out real quick before we go deeper into this. I like that Zatanna points out, she's like, oh,
00:33:24
Speaker
boots look really great not good for running and like changes them so it's like something as very little as like putting a heel to just wearing flats was really impressive yeah and because they're in manhattan in the end of october uh artemis isn't wearing her typical like revealing or like
00:33:44
Speaker
like she's not showing skin on her outfit like she typically would like it was more of like a hoodie armor compared to like what she typically wears so they are actually like adjusting their outfits and uniforms depending on where they're at and what they're doing just so much attention to detail I love this yeah that's an excellent catch I hadn't really picked up on that detail but yeah Artemis I know typically her outfit shows a lot more of her midriff so yeah
00:34:09
Speaker
Uh, so yeah, it seemed like, um, harm just wanted to, he was just power hungry and wanted to take on the justice league. And he was just kind of working his way up the ladder. Yeah. I got, uh, I don't know what your, your level of familiarity with like the video game series devil may cry is, but I got like, okay. It's, uh, just, it's kind of like, um, you know, hyper action, kind of like taking vampires, that Castlevania feel.
00:34:36
Speaker
and just amping up the action. But it definitely got Dante vibes or there's also a film series called Highlander where it's like there can only be one. It's all about being the ultimate warrior and basically you have to kill the previous one and inherit his power. I definitely got vibes like that from this character. And, you know, he was referring to himself as in third person the entire time. So I was like wondering, like, what is this guy's name? Is it Harmon?
00:35:02
Speaker
Artemis had that great line, we get it, your name's Harm. Later on she calls him Harmster. He loves Atana so much. But the episode is called Secrets, and he's got a secret of his own which actually manifests in a physical or
00:35:29
Speaker
I'll just say physical form for now in this character secret and that's the only word she can utter she acts as a bit of a guide to Artemis and Zatanna as they're battling Harm and they she eventually leads them to his his house in the place of his origin and basically his his ultimate undoing is the fact that he is not pure of heart his secret is that
00:35:53
Speaker
is that he killed his sister. That was his sacrifice. He killed his sister with Beowulf Stagger, I believe. And he was proud of it. Right, right. But even though he was proud of it, he...
00:36:06
Speaker
I guess he did have some remorse somewhere within him because that was the impurity that she was able to basically pull from him. But really great moment for Zatanna because when he sees
00:36:24
Speaker
secret he's like oh another one of your another one of its illusions and she's like no i didn't open my mouth and you're like it didn't open its mouth yeah i was gonna say you know it can't cast an illusion unless it opens its mouth yeah so
00:36:41
Speaker
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00:37:10
Speaker
You're invited to explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and float along the rushing waters of an old-fashioned swimming hole. Plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdoor adventure. Mississippi. Wanderers welcome. What a sass machine.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah, I thought it was a solid episode. I really liked being introduced to a character that I knew nothing about. It encouraged me to do a little bit of research and I guess it's fitting that they included this character in Young Justice because as I did my research, he is a character that is
00:37:44
Speaker
tied to the Young Justice comic series, he debuted in Young Justice number four, which debuted in 1999. And it's not a completely accurate translation of the character, but they get the gist of him there. Interesting.
00:38:02
Speaker
Yeah, I encourage you, if you have any interest, if you've watched the show and you thought Harm was an interesting character and want to learn a little bit more about him and you're into the comics, check out, you know, that Young Justice from the late 90s. Definitely must have had a pretty strong influence on this show.
00:38:19
Speaker
So yeah, kind of reiterated the fact that Artemis kind of has secrets and family trauma of her own. And again, it just does such a good job of dealing with mental and emotional issues because the time is like, dude, you need to talk to somebody, you can't just be beating the shit out of people all the time. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
Just changing gears a little bit, one thing I did want to highlight, we talked a little bit about the mole conversation that took place, and that actually was at the beginning of this episode. With the character of Artemis, we do get the reveal that Red Arrow basically just comes out and says, hey, he tells Batman, Aqualad, and Robin that she is not Green Arrow's niece, which comes as a surprise to Aqualad.
00:39:04
Speaker
but that's when we find out that Robin, I don't know if he figured it out on his own or if he already knew, but he's about to just come out and say, yeah, she's related to, and then Batman cuts him off. I don't know if she was gonna say that she's related to Cheshire because we already know that, or if there's gonna be a bigger reveal down the road that she's related to another perhaps more significant character, but definitely ties back into the fact that Artemis is harboring some secrets
00:39:34
Speaker
For sure. And that's all you can say about that, I take it. Yeah, how can I change the topic now? No problem at all. Okay, I guess this is a good moment to highlight here and hopefully this isn't ruining anything. This is just me knowing a little bit more about the character of Aqualad from my exposure in the comics. I know that the character of Aqualad is related to Black Manta.
00:40:01
Speaker
So I thought it was interesting that he is the one that initially found out about the mole from Sportsmaster, so it could be a tainted source there. But he's the one that comes up and says, because there's doubt cast about Miss Martian and Superboy both. Superboy could be the mole and not even know it. Who knows what Cadmus did to him.
00:40:24
Speaker
But it is Aqualad that comes up and says, hey, no, I have fought with every single one of these people. I'm convinced there's not a mole. I wonder how that's going to come back and pay off if it'll bite him, if his familial ties to a villain like Black Manta is going to be something. But I don't know if that's something you can divulge or not. If not, we'll just move on. I take it we need to move on.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, for those who can't see the video, I'm just covering my face right now. But you did mention, well, let me find a way to steer this car real quick. You mentioned how Aqualot said, god damn, I wish I'm watching this for the first time.
00:41:11
Speaker
You mentioned how Aqualad was basically pointing out how each person could be the mole. And they said, oh, Martian Manhunter has like hundreds of nieces and nephews didn't even know that this one existed till about six months ago. And she's yeah, she stowed away on his ship when he was coming back from Mars. Right. And then we learn her huge secret of actually being a white Martian. Yep. How did you respond to that?
00:41:41
Speaker
It was an interesting reveal for me because I had watched the first couple seasons of Supergirl, so I know that was an element of the show there, but I still wasn't super familiar with the character from the comics, so I didn't know if that was just something they did for that particular series.
00:42:04
Speaker
I really had no idea that she was a white Martian. I know there was, I can't remember what episode there was mentioned.
McGann's Secret and Identity Crisis
00:42:09
Speaker
Oh yeah, it was when she had her therapy session with Black and Mary. She was like, oh, you're white. And she's like, what? She kind of freaks out. But what I really did like about that, that whole reveal, the fact that she's a white Martian and she's covering up her identity on so many different levels, it kind of gave new context to one of the, I won't say complaints I lodged, but just a,
00:42:34
Speaker
I guess criticism is fair. As much as I liked her character, I felt a little dated in the fact that she was an otherworldly character that felt like she couldn't be herself and had to change her name and her appearance to fit in. Man, I was so off base. That makes so much more sense, the balancing act that she's doing. She is constantly, constantly trying to hide who she is.
00:43:04
Speaker
And yeah, it gives so much more context to her character. She is going through such a battle every day. Oh man, she's so cheerful and optimistic to be carrying that. It's just a testament to
00:43:26
Speaker
to her will. What were you going to say? You touching on that a couple of episodes was another moment where I just had to cover my face. It's like, yep, share your opinion. I've got nothing to say about this. It's like, how do you feel now, buddy? It's going to pay off.
00:43:44
Speaker
It's one of those things of like don't meet your idols either because she sees the star of the of the sitcom and like yeah she's grateful for the fact that you know she's someone that's helpful but it's like she just really wants to know like about the show and about this and about that and what Megan was actually like and it was just kind of like dude I'm just I'm busy helping people now like are you here to help me or are we just are you just in my way right now?
00:44:09
Speaker
And like that's when Miss Martian just kind of had to go like yeah, like That's just I gotta be a hero. I gotta I gotta work on my stuff and help my team and
00:44:20
Speaker
And from my understanding, there was basically a whole genocide thing on Mars with the White Martians killing off the green ones, right? It was like a whole Mars Civil War type thing? Correct, yeah. From my understanding, John Jones, our Martian manhunter, when he debuted initially, he was supposed to be the last surviving member of Mars, having the rest of his species wiped out by the White Martians.
00:44:50
Speaker
and it was kinda hard to tell what continuity is taking place within this particular episode because when she has that battle
00:44:59
Speaker
In the mind space we see the return of Simon. Yeah, who seems to be you know her Her nemesis in terms of like psychic battles at least in this season so far He transports her back to to Mars and I guess through the dialogue we find out this is basically her worst fear It's her being a white Martian on Mars completely isolated. It's like she was
00:45:23
Speaker
What's the word banished? Yeah banished to Mars and doesn't seem like there's any other inhabitants there So I think you're correct there. It seems like both McGann and John are the last of their species, but
00:45:36
Speaker
I gotta wonder, does John Jones, does Marvin Manhunter? Does Martian Manhunter know? I'm gonna ask him. He's a white Martian because he's obviously a strong telepath and psychic in his own right, but maybe she's more powerful than him and able to hide that from him. I don't know. With her not knowing how powerful she was,
00:46:03
Speaker
I could see Jean actually knowing that, but I honestly can't remember if he does know or not. I feel like he does, I don't know. But tapping in and knowing how much respect she has for the team and what they think of her and how much she genuinely loves Superboy and the fear of losing him was just kind of like, aw, poor girl.
00:46:28
Speaker
Yeah, that was a particularly harsh moment. You kind of see everyone's reactions to her. The team is kind of like, you know, you lied to us. Batman's like, I don't think we can trust you anymore.
00:46:42
Speaker
And then Superboy is the absolute worst. He's like, love you. I can't even look at you. It's like, Oh God, that's harsh. And you know, she's got the, yeah, she's got the mental capacity of a teenage girl. So I won't pretend to have ever existed in that head space, but you know, you gotta know anybody that's a teenage person that has image issues of any kind, identity issues of any kind to get rejected like that is.
00:47:08
Speaker
pretty terrible blow. But as great an episode this was in terms of giving context to where she is mentally,
00:47:19
Speaker
One of my big takeaways is that the resolution is not a very healthy one. She's basically going at it with Simon and things are getting worse and worse. And then she gets enraged and he's like, oh, hold on now. Let's not do anything you don't want to do there. And she's like, you don't know me at all. And basically tears a psychic hole through his chest. And the next time we see him, he looks like he's been rendered completely stupefied.
00:47:46
Speaker
Uh, yeah, he got fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. But then she's back with the team and then you think you're going to get that nice, um, healthy resolution there when, and because they're like, what do you actually look like? And she ends up like revealing herself to look something like John. And we know that it's not what she actually looks like. So the lie continues and actually opens her up to potential blackmail from queen B who reveals herself at the end of the episode there.
00:48:14
Speaker
bald megan still hot yeah and the fact that she she brain blasted her whole team oh yeah great point said that it was Simon total lie I mean I guess the only pro for her out of this is she has an adopted little brother now in Garfield cuz remember they said they're like she had to do the blood transfusion and like matches DNA right yeah
00:48:36
Speaker
Did you notice that his eyes turned from sky blue into the same green eyes? McGahn had at the end of the episode after the transfusion I did notice that his eyes were green at the end But I did not pick up on the fact that they were blue beforehand. So that's yeah
00:48:53
Speaker
him and his mom had like the exact same like blue eyes in a couple scenes and at the end they got really close up to his face like let's see who notices the green eyes and I was like yeah yeah yeah just kind of going back to her basing her whole like shtick personality and appearance on this this sitcom from
00:49:14
Speaker
I got, I got like late eighties, early nineties vibes from it. Long division before it was cool. Exactly. Exactly. Even with like the theme song and stuff like that. Hello, Megan. Hello, Megan. It just, it improves the other parts of the show that even I already liked, but it was just kind of like every now and then when she did the hello, Megan thing, it made me roll my eyes a little bit. I was like, all right, a character has got to catch phrase. It's, it's a part of a cartoon, but now it's like, no, that was,
00:49:44
Speaker
Yeah, every time she says hello Megan, it's like Yeah, it's like Connor's facial expression when um when the boyfriend came up in the show and it was just Hilarious just like excuse me and that character's like I know that's not even you but back off and that character's name was Connor He was yep Well speaking of Connor. He had a good
Robin's Leadership Challenges
00:50:08
Speaker
Sorry, we didn't even mention that this was Robin's first time leading a mission. Aqualad wasn't even around for it. Correct, correct, yeah. He was not happy with the fact. No, he seemed increasingly disappointed. Number one, I don't know if he was disappointed with the unceremonious nature of him being revealed as team leader, or maybe he just didn't want to lead the team because
00:50:34
Speaker
The last like major character beat we got with him, I feel like was in his therapy session with Black Canary where we got the reveal that he does not want to be the Batman. So I'm just kind of, I can't, when I see those expressions on his face, I'm just thinking, yeah, it's inner turmoil. He's questioning, do I even want to lead a team? Do I want to follow the same trajectory as Batman? I don't know, what was your takeaway?
00:51:03
Speaker
uh my understanding was there's been a couple of episodes where like especially with the whole mole thing and aqua lad steps up and they kind of like reaffirm him being leader i feel like he has the maturity to feel like he still has work to do
00:51:19
Speaker
So when he was put on the spot of, hey, this is your time, I think he had the sense of like, I'm not ready for this. With all the Justice League level stuff that we've done, I'm not ready for this responsibility of such a sensitive mission. And you see a lot of things go wrong with
00:51:38
Speaker
needing to intervene because Garfield and Megan were in trouble to the shed being attacked by the drone and like Megan was pissed at Dick because of everything that happened he was like yeah there's casualties and stuff like this like he was not empathetic
00:51:56
Speaker
I mean, he wasn't, he wasn't, because they didn't even really need to touch down there in the first place. I think he sensed how personal it was to her, because if I recall correctly, he said, we're way off base here. We shouldn't even interfere. If we interfere right now and alert our presence to the violians, it's only going to make things worse from here on out. It basically does. It'll be an international incident.
00:52:18
Speaker
yeah so it was just like he understood what they were going through but he was like he didn't enjoy being responsible for it he was like we weren't even supposed to do this we weren't supposed to be here like i hate the turn that this is taken and he was just so ready for aqua lots of compact yeah yeah it was it was interesting i i'll have to uh... i'll be curious to see what what trajectory robin's on right now because it's like i said i i
00:52:47
Speaker
I really don't know at this point. It's conflicted. He's definitely being portrayed as conflicted. So, uh, the last two things I want to say about this episode and then we can move over to kid flash is, um, I liked when, when Bruce Wayne was speaking with the leader of Karak. Yes. Karak, um, kid flash was like, Karak was the one that was like,
00:53:14
Speaker
Oh no, I remember the country. I was trying to think of the president's name because I remember it. Oh, gotcha. This is going to sound super dumb, but it sounded a lot like Havarti cheese, and Havarti cheese is my favorite cheese.
00:53:27
Speaker
Anyway, when Bruce Wayne showed up and Kid Flash was like, oh, how convenient. Bruce Wayne got here really quick and Dick Grayson like elbowed him. So again, it emphasizes what's a secret and what isn't like they've been friends enough to know Bruce Wayne is Batman, but that is not common knowledge at all. Right, right, right.
00:53:51
Speaker
I don't even know how many people in the league probably know that he's Bruce Wayne, but his his Lex Luthor level of involvement in politics as a mediator was pretty interesting and I totally forgot the opener of this episode was when Canary and Superboy were training together and they start making out and Ollie and Canary got so mad at each other it turns out that ended up being Megan and
00:54:21
Speaker
You're invited to explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and float along the rushing waters of an old-fashioned swimming hole. Plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdoor adventure. Mississippi. Wanderers welcome.
00:54:36
Speaker
I made the note that it must be, so there's this concept I go by called the Thousand Eyes, where it's like you're yourself, but you have other personalities within yourself. So at this point, for Diana to be Diana and Oliver's girlfriend or wife, Diana, sorry.
00:54:58
Speaker
For her to be like that version of herself and then being the hero and then having to flip the switch and being Mentor like you see her frustrated on the other side of the surveillance. Oh, yeah, but then when she approaches Megan she's she's more calm. She's back to like her Her shrink self and just kind of like explaining the situation and this and I'm just kind of like dude good on you You are very patient
00:55:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's another one of those examples where we haven't necessarily gotten the most screen time with either character, but they do a great job capitalizing on that screen time because as upset as Ollie is, he doesn't miss the opportunity to turn into a joke and kind of...
00:55:42
Speaker
poke at Diana as well and get a rise out of her. But yeah, you did mention Diana acts with complete and total grace and dignity. She addresses the issue head on, tells her why it's not acceptable on earth, and is like, I'm not upset anymore. I was upset. It's important that you know that I was upset, but I'm not currently harboring that against you.
00:56:05
Speaker
Yeah, the last little thing I will I will say about this episode is We've talked previously about the depiction of the action and the violence how it's it's it's been effective but never too gratuitous I was a little surprised. I wasn't offended, but I was a little surprised that the
00:56:20
Speaker
how much they showed of Gar, his blood on the ground. At first I was like, is that blood? And then I was like, sure enough, you saw the trail of blood leading all the way to the hospital bed he was on. And then he had the trail of blood streaming from his nose. I was like, I could see a younger watcher being a little upset about seeing something like that happen to such a young character. But he pulled out in the end. So he pulled through in the end, I should say.
00:56:52
Speaker
Try not to go there. Pulled it out, pulled through, you know. Yeah, well, I believe this is a good point to move on to a character that we really haven't got to highlight too much.
Kid Flash's Mission of Maturity
00:57:08
Speaker
So it's pretty nice that he got an episode in his own right. And it was even his birthday episode. Good old Kid Flash, Wally West, celebrating his birthday in an episode called Cold Hearted, episode 20.
00:57:21
Speaker
The significant thing about this episode, I think I made mention of it earlier, as we've seen the team, you know, grow in their ability and their talent and their stature and get closer to the league, this is the first time they actually get to work with the league in a side by side mission.
00:57:40
Speaker
We've got, I believe it was five, they call them ice fortresses, which are basically dispelling snow across the United States and creating a big blizzard and a hell of a situation for the league and the team. But with Wally being the focal point here, he kind of plays, he kind of acts as the,
00:58:05
Speaker
the vehicle for the audience because it's like as excited as we are to see the team and the league interact it's like oh no you gotta go do this other thing we'll make we'll give you a little snippets here and there but you have to watch it from the side it's like we kind of have to do the same thing because we're with lolly on this other
00:58:20
Speaker
mission to deliver this heart to this young girl. What were your initial impressions on the episode and what did you think about the Journey Kid Flash one on this episode? Did you think it did him justice given his somewhat limited character arc over the rest of the episodes? Oh yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
For episodes that we're not covering on this arc, you can see like a huge jump in maturity after having to deal with something like that. One of the things that I was really fascinated by was when they were doing the cutscenes to what the league was doing against the fortresses on this team up, you saw Batman working with Robin. And you saw that what they mentioned in the past, it's like they don't need to communicate, they just work together.
00:59:09
Speaker
And Aquaman and Aqualad was the same thing. Aquaman was actually shocked for a second when Aqualad jumped over his shoulder and started making his moves and then Flash stepped in and did his thing. And I was like, man, this is so cool how they're working with their mentors. And Kid Flash even pointed out, he was like, oh man, everyone's working with their mentors. What do you think's missing in this picture? Did you want to add something? I was going to say that moment with Aqualad and Aquaman. I could not help but think of that shield moment from Wonder Woman that was Don Themyscira with the Amazonians. And then again,
00:59:37
Speaker
that we created with Steve and Diana and the German, or I guess it was the French town, but anyway, continue.
00:59:44
Speaker
You and Justice did it first. Yeah, I'm finding that they did it many times first, yeah. See, everyone's watching this show and just stealing ideas because nobody ever watched it on Cartoon Network. That's right, that's right. But yeah, he started off his day so strong of getting his breakfast and school being closed and Iris saying his name on the news.
01:00:07
Speaker
to finally everyone knowing that Connor and Megan are in a relationship because Artemis had the pure joy of breaking it. She absolutely relished being the one to break it. Oh, yeah. She was like, please let me do it.
01:00:22
Speaker
And then which is kind of funny because I like I felt there was a budding romance between them You know that episode in the Bialy and desert before when they all lost their memories They had a natural chemistry and struck up a kinship there. So it's kind of funny to see them it's it's Not to get weird about or anything like that But it is almost like a brother and sister picking at picking at each other in that regard too But even though I felt there were some romantic
01:00:50
Speaker
on the
01:01:08
Speaker
Ever so sternly, his one-liner doesn't matter. It's like, okay, sorry about that. But it turns out to be the, the, the queen of a whole country, a 10 year old queen. And it's a very important thing. Uh, you see the introduction of Vandal Savage and he has to run from Boston to Seattle within, was it 12 hours? Uh, I want to say three hours or maybe four hours.
01:01:34
Speaker
a few hours.
01:01:53
Speaker
Vandal Savage steps in you see how he's like hand-to-hand combat badass and Not gonna say too much on him come scared. I'm gonna slip up on something. Okay So kid flash had to have like a little encounter with him and then again the emotional trauma of him getting there and someone telling him You're too late
01:02:13
Speaker
You didn't make it here in time and he was like fucked up from that. He was like, I fought him for 15 minutes. She died 12 minutes ago. I could have actually made it for this. And then to find out that he was being, it was all the ruse. Right. Yeah. So yeah, it was, it was a lot, a lot, a lot of like, I know it was his birthday too.
01:02:34
Speaker
But after his birthday, he has had so much character development, so much more maturity and so much more respect for the mission and actually being like, I don't know whose life is ever on the line. And I just saved the whole country today. So I need to be like laser focused from here on out. Very true.
01:02:54
Speaker
one thing that stood out to me from the episode I know you you do some running but I really liked how when he was running and he was you know out of out of snacks and whatnot how we got that everything it was the soliloquy the monologue inside his head and he's like
01:03:10
Speaker
don't worry about the cold don't worry about that just keep pushing because i don't know about you but whenever i run or something like that it really is like you have to get into that head space where it's just like you're really you're almost like coaching yourself it's just like block everything else out just keep pushing forward just focus on that soul thing um so you know given the the fact that the character is his power is essentially running it was cool to to get that head space from him but um
01:03:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, you can't focus on how much your knee hurts. You can't focus on starting to drizzle or how thirsty you are. It's like, no, I need to hit this distance by this time and I got to keep moving.
01:03:46
Speaker
And it's so easy to take these people's powers for granted because we see them, especially in a cartoon, they don't have to work with the budget restraints. We get to see full power sets on display somewhat regularly. And the show, like I said, it does a great job with the action, with the punches. It feels like every punch hits. You feel the pain that characters
01:04:11
Speaker
are taking in when they land and whatnot. But just having that realism and taking that into account, the fact that him making it there in time requires elements just outside of his own fuel. He has to have an outside fuel source.
01:04:30
Speaker
One thing I wanted to note on really quickly is like we got the little snippets of the team fighting side by side. We get the polar stealth outfits, which were a nice change up. As much as I like the stealth outfits, a lot of the times they were just like press a button and everything just changes to a gray color scheme. And this one we see some real deviations in the design because they obviously have to be protected from the elements.
01:04:54
Speaker
robins in particular stood out to me when he's got the the cow that kind of goes over his whole entire head and neck very reminiscent of the character of red wing who i know in the comics is uh... if i'm not mistaken he's traditionally uh... that's a tim drake robin uh... evolution so uh... i thought it was just red robin i didn't know his name was red wing no you were right it is red robin i'm i'm
01:05:22
Speaker
I miss speaking there. Red Wing, Red Rod, and there's Nightwing. I don't really have an excuse. All the wings. I don't have an excuse. Red Wing is a Marvel character. Oh, okay. That's right. Remember Falcon's little journey. That's right. Yeah, that's what it is. It's also a hockey team, the Red Wings, but I digress. Another thing.
01:05:46
Speaker
With, you know, Count Vertigo being the uncle of this queen in this fictional country of Latava, I believe it is, we find out that basically the reason that he didn't go to Belle Rive with the rest of the gang in his last appearance is because of his diplomatic immunity. So when he
01:06:11
Speaker
We got that scene with Batman, and I can't remember which character was with him, but they visit Hugo Strange at Belle Rive. Oh, that's right, they're wanting to know about the nature of the, Flash, they're wanting to know about the nature of the ice fortresses because they, their primary suspects are going to be the ice family that we saw initially. And that's when Hugo Strange says, uh, impossible. They didn't leave their cells. But what dawned on me is this version of Batman apparently hasn't fought Hugo Strange yet. He doesn't know.
01:06:39
Speaker
the fact that Hugo Strange is a very duplicitous and nefarious character traditionally. He's not usually connected to Belle Reeve. He's normally in association with Arkham Asylum. He's the chief psychiatrist of Arkham Asylum. So I thought it was a
01:06:59
Speaker
an interesting choice to take. I don't know if you have any, any takeaways on that. I think the only other time we saw Hugo Strange this season wasn't in connection with, uh, Belle Reeve, I think it was the episode terrors where, uh, super boy and began first infiltrated as the terror twins. Yeah. So.
01:07:20
Speaker
And that's how we got that. Um, so we know that the cold family has been a problem since episode one. And then we see them being an issue, trying to break out of Belle Reeve and then yeah, now having to deal with this as well. So it's a very constant thing. Like why are, why is the cold family causing so much problem and what's going on in Belle Reeve that these people who are under are behind bars or managing to cause
Hugo Strange and Belle Reeve's Suspicion
01:07:46
Speaker
so much stuff, uh, outside of that facility.
01:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, I guess so as much in this episode that Kid Flash was kind of played by Count Vertigo, I really like that in the end he basically got to turn the tables on their head. It reminded me of another one of my favorite franchises, Mission Impossible, one of the great things they do in there.
01:08:12
Speaker
is they'll set a character up because they wear these highly sophisticated masks and they can impersonate people. They'll basically set somebody up to make a confession and reveal the mask and be like, gotcha. And you very much got that with this episode. Kid Flash is laid out, and the last time we saw him, he passed out from exhaustion after delivering the heart to the right medical team eventually. So as a viewer, you're right there with Count Vertigo. You think that...
01:08:40
Speaker
This young girl has died and that it was all for naught. Oh, and it just felt so good when he pulls back that curtain and you see the queen there, and Count Vertigo's going away. And Kid Flash gets his next souvenir, the scepter. Oh, the sword scepter, which he didn't even put on the shelf. It was the container that was holding the hard time. Correct, you're right. That's what he shelved. Good catch. Good catch.
01:09:08
Speaker
Pretty interesting design for that thing. It was cool that it was like a backpack and had the shock absorption and whatnot so that he was free to dance upon the sides of cars and whatnot because obviously the local forces did not do the one thing that they were supposed to do in Clear Path for him. And I feel like I probably bashed on that the first time I watched it, but then I realized that it was literally all the police forces from Boston to Seattle.
01:09:33
Speaker
Like there's no way all the states in this country would actually agree with each other to line up for that one person. That was like, man, the fact that you had that much of a clear way was like, wow. And the fact that you were the straight troopers were like, did you see him? Did you see him? And like after he went by, that was great. Yeah, it was a really good moment.
01:09:58
Speaker
Well, I think that kind of covers all my thoughts for that particular episode. It was just nice to spend some quality time with Kid Flash, Wally West. He was one of the founding members of the league. We already got a standalone episode for Aqualad, so I'm optimistic that the season's quickly coming to a close. As far as I can tell, it seems like there are
01:10:20
Speaker
are a few threads that need to come together pretty quickly, but I'm confident they can do it already based on what such a great job they've done with the through lines they've planted already. So I will be curious to see if Robin gets an episode of his own. That would be something I'd be excited for. Given his position as a founding member, I think it would be only right because actually, yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, Superboy,
01:10:47
Speaker
got his own episode as well with the Tomorrow People, or the Forever People, excuse me. So yeah, I think Robin's due for an episode here. I'm just gonna let you carry on your speculations and let the audience come up with their own speculation and yeah, we'll find out how right or wrong you are.
01:11:08
Speaker
So I guess the big things to look forward to, as I'm sure a lot of the people that are listening to this have already watched the show and they're familiar with it, so it might be a little frustrating for them to listen to me have no idea what's going on, but for me, these final episodes that we're looking forward to, I guess the things I'm looking forward to are the things I'm expecting to see pay off.
01:11:32
Speaker
What exactly is Superboy's relationship to Cadmus and the Genomorphs going to be? What is Artemis' secret, ultimately, beyond her relationship with Cheshire?
01:11:46
Speaker
And then is, is McGann gonna, you know, reveal to the team that she is in fact a white Martian? I, I mean, yeah, is there anything I might be overlooking without spoiling anything that I should be aware of? To be continued next time on Animation Deliberation. I guess the final, the final thing I'll say is they've done such a good job with Dr. Fate. I hope, I hope that he continues to be
01:12:14
Speaker
a significant part of the show, even if it's just an episode here or there, but hopefully he plays at least some part in these final few episodes given that really nice arc they gave Dr. Fate and Zatanna just in the episode we discussed not long ago.
01:12:31
Speaker
Oh, you know what? While we're still here, and I'm just looking over my notes, one thing I did want to kind of backpedal and just mention is I love some of the Easter eggs the show plants. We had in the Hello Meghan episode, I was paying very close attention to the credits. One of the actors was credited as Jonathan Lord. And I was immediately like, Maxwell Lord. What is Jonathan Lord's relationship to Maxwell Lord? And I didn't get a chance to look it up, but I want to now.
01:13:00
Speaker
That was one of those things I was like, I know Jay Scott, he's paying very close attention to these names, so I'm not going to bother going through it. Well, just on a cursory goog, Jonathan Lord is definitely a character. Okay. Wow. Cool. He's a, uh, he's a character called Silver Blade. And let's see, he was a movie star who started a number of, and a number of wide variety swashbucklers and other fantasy roles during Hollywood's golden age. Huh.
01:13:29
Speaker
I guess he only appeared in two issues of a series called Silver Blade, which debuted in September of 1987 and ended in September of 1988. I really have a way of bringing in these kind of names and heroes that nobody's really ever heard about. They don't do much with it, but they're there.
01:13:50
Speaker
I mean, yeah, we already kind of alluded to it, but the show does such a great job for anybody. I consider myself a DC fan, but I don't have that encyclopedic knowledge. So it's just really cool to be watching the show and characters that I'm vaguely familiar with, I get reintroduced to and get inspired to look up their history and see how they fit into the bigger DC fold. And then as well, it's just like, yeah, completely new characters like Harm and Secret that I already mentioned.
01:14:18
Speaker
Again, I have to thank you for recommending the show. It's been a blast just to watch. The benefit of actually doing this podcast is rewatching it because I do get to pick up on more of the nuance and more of the references and all the intention that's there. Good stuff. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
01:14:38
Speaker
Unless you got anything else, I think that'll bring things to a close for this edition of Animation Deliberation. Thank you folks for listening in, and you can find us on Stranded Panda. Please visit strandedpanda.com for all the great shows that they do there, including the MCU cast, the Star Wars universe podcast, the
01:14:59
Speaker
Star Trek universe podcast as well as benders assemble and the superhero ethics podcast so a lot of great things going on there uh... again i am jay scottie saint claire if you guys want to follow me on twitter or my instagram you can find me at jay scott for real that's jay s c o t t number four r e e l and then the instagram is the same thing just add a y jay scottie for real so
01:15:26
Speaker
I look forward to interacting with you guys. Does your hair, you got any final thoughts or anything you want to plug there, my friend? I'm good to go. Ready for the finale. Alright, take care folks. You gonna sit? Stay whelmed.