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28 Years Later: The Bone Temple with Doug Davenport
76 Plays12 days ago
Join Nicholas on a little trip to a little temple of bones. That's right, it's finally time to talk Nia DaCosta's brutal, yet beautiful follow up to 28 Year Later. Except this time, there's more bones... Joining Nick to talk about 28 Years Later: The Bone Temple is Doug Davenport from the These Guys Got Juice Podcast! A perfect guest for such a discussable movie.
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![[Rec] 3: Genesis image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/66fdbf0ae4a1f75854c19ba4/54394bc6-52d3-49a0-ace5-53e514548d6d.png)
![[Rec] 2 image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/66fdbf0ae4a1f75854c19ba4/5c72df09-fb64-4613-bed7-cf4c7f3eca9f.png)
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:58
Speaker
you
00:01:12
Speaker
What's up, guys? It's Morbid Curiosities, your favorite horror movie podcast, and we're back with another episode. I'm your host, Nicholas Ewers, and coming straight from the Bone Temple himself, the host of These Guys Got Juice podcast, Doug Davenport.
Critique of YouTube Thumbnails and AI Content
00:01:27
Speaker
How's it going, Doug? It's going good. I'm all boned up, ready to go. you you got a You got a boner going on? Is that? it Sure.
00:01:40
Speaker
I got a bone to pick with this movie. No, that that makes it sound like I'm angry. that the got Got a bone to pick with Nia DaCosta. i I'm going to get a, yeah, that could be the title of your YouTube video. It's just a thumbnail of me like pointing and I'm like angry. And then and for for some reason, Kathleen Kennedy's face is there too with like X's on her eyes. I'm like, yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
There's a YouTuber who covers a lot of horror movies, and I guess I won't say who they are, but their thumbnail, it's always a picture of them, and they're like rolling their eye or looking in the corner. I'm like, okay, take it easy with with the faces, guys. Do we need all the faces? That's how you get the clicks. You gotta be doing some Jim from the office stuff. No.
00:02:31
Speaker
That is true. There are times I'm like, okay, there's a face, so this is a person. I know it's not AI doing this video. Yeah, AI could never make faces like that, ever. Yeah, there's there's a lot of AI YouTube out there, which some of it I don't even realize on my first go that it's AI. And then I go to the comments and people are like, AI garbage. And I'm like, oh yeah, this is AI garbage. And I'm just like, I'm find something else. I've been recommended music on my YouTube algorithm and I'm like, oh, this kind of sounds like like cool, like older stuff. Like, oh, someone did a ah ah cool rendition of something from like that sounds like the 30s or 40s. And then someone in the comments like, yeah, I could perfectly replicate that old sound. i'm like, oh, motherfucker. No, not good. It really sucks when you get deceived by ai at this point. Because it's getting like harder to spot. It's like almost like I need to program an AI to find the AI. We need a good Terminator. to I need i needed to i needed an Arnold Schwarzenegger carrying a flower box with a shotgun in it to protect me from the bad AI. Save us, T-1000. Wait, it's the T-800, right? Yeah, T-800 is The T-1000 is the bad one. That's the liquid one, yeah. And we we don't like liquid here on this podcast, so just saying it now. When it's liquid metal, I'm just sus of it. like, those two things shouldn't go together. No, I only like liquid metal when it's on Sirius XM.
00:04:07
Speaker
It's a joke for a couple people. I don't know who still has satellite radio nowadays. They tried to give it, when my mom got a new car that like three months of Sirius XM and we were both like, I don't think we're ever going to use this.
Film Discussion: 28 Years Later: The Bone Temple
00:04:21
Speaker
Well, so while we're on the topic of AI, something that could never be made by AI or like was so clearly built by a human, very sloppy, lazy segue, that 28 years later, the Bone Temple. No, it's a perfect segue. This is the human franchise. Yeah, and that was a very human segue. AI couldn't have segued that human.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, it would have been cleaner. It would have been clean who would have been too It would have been way cleaner. Too clean. We can't have that. No, we're we're keeping it real.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, so 28 years later, The Bone Temple, directed by Nia DaCosta. This movie... and Doug, did you want to give your initial thoughts first? You're the guest, so I'll give you the option. Do you want to go first, or would you prefer if I get thrown to the wolves? I can i can throw out some initial thoughts. I mean, i was going into this with like pretty high expectations. i I really, really love this franchise, specifically the original movie. And then the 28 years later, like both of the Danny Boyle entries are highly regarded and like not just amongst my favorite like horror zombie movies, but just like favorite movies, period. And like that that last entry was felt so fresh and reinvigorating where I was like, okay, we've like redefined like what a zombie movie could be, like what this franchise can be, like what is the 28 days, 28 years later franchise. And I think this movie takes that baton and goes in some interesting directions with it.
00:06:04
Speaker
To me, it doesn't feel like quite as like a bolt of lightning is like in invigorating, like, it so Some of the stuff feels like like, oh, could this be in just like another post-apocalyptic movie, like not specific to 28 years later? But then there's the stuff that feels very, very specific to to this world and to these characters, and that's the stuff that I really liked.
00:06:28
Speaker
But it it it was a It was slightly uneven for me. like not not Not necessarily a bad way, it's just like, wasn't even sure what to expect. All I knew is that you know this was the middle section of a trilogy.
00:06:44
Speaker
And what we'll talk about with regards to like, I was kind of like left feeling cold in terms of like, oh, the main character we followed in the last one, this movie kind of doesn't care about him. So i was i ah i had to readjust like how I was watching it based on that because I was like, oh, this is not going to be like and a big development for Spike, I guess. Like he's like in a but he's taking a backseat.
00:07:11
Speaker
You know, before I get into my initial thoughts, i i didn't really... When you say the movie is uneven, that's something I didn't really think about or feel when I was watching the movie. But hearing you say it, I do totally get that criticism when I'm thinking about how the movie is kind of split up without spoiling it. It is almost like half of a conventional...
00:07:38
Speaker
zombie movie that still in ways pushes a lot of boundaries that you aren't seeing in like horror in general, I would say. And then this like really just different thing that we'll get into, but it's like half conventional and half like very unconventional. And then the
Character Analysis: Spike's Development
00:07:59
Speaker
two halves kind of mash themselves together by the end, but even that kind of feels like not quite natural. It's almost like, okay, we, well, we had to get to this point. So this is why we're doing it this way. But then I like, not that I didn't enjoy that climax, but i was kept thinking of like, Oh, is there, was there like something more original we could have done here?
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, so I really see where you're coming from when you say that. And I, again, ah when you talk about, like, the main character, I'll try to, like, be very tiptoey with this.
00:08:34
Speaker
And ah the main character from 28 Years Later, Spike, and his role in this movie, that's another thing, too, where I was so, like... sucked into this movie that I didn't think about that until after the fact. So I totally understand going into this watching and being like, oh, this is different than the last movie. It's not what I expected it to be.
00:09:00
Speaker
Right. Like, like still a lot of good, interesting stuff, but it's, it's not, it's not like, you know, part chapter one of spikes mythic quest, you know we already saw, and this isn't really like the next entry. It's kind of just like getting spike to the next place where there'll be some growth. Like he's definitely going to do some shit in the next, you know, with everyone he's meeting in the next movie.
Podcast Crossover Announcement
00:09:25
Speaker
But yeah, here he's kind of just like in a holding pattern.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah. In a way, I'll save this thought for spoilers, actually. We can get into that in spoilers. Um... I'll bang out my initial thoughts real quick, and then we can hop into the meat of this, because as we're getting into this, I'm like, oh, man, there's so much like juicy stuff to talk about. There's stuff in here, yeah.
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, and that's why we got you know two of the guys from These Guys Got Juice doing this. This is another bit of a crossover episode. Talk about a very juicy movie. There was just too much juice here that we we had to unearth it. yeah oh man I have a feeling you'll be talking about it across two feeds at at the very least there's a good chance that might happen it wouldn't surprise me there's a very good chance that would happen just because I'm gonna see this multiple times and maybe how do I feel about it might change maybe I'll
00:10:24
Speaker
do a 180, I'll be like, no, this actually clears the first one out
Nicholas's Viewing Experience
00:10:27
Speaker
of the water. Danny Boyle's a hack. Fuck Danny Boyle. Yeah. I kind of had a bit of a turnaround with the first 28 years later myself. I saw it the first ah like opening night and walked out being having the same reaction you had, actually. Being like, this...
00:10:46
Speaker
is different than what I thought it was going to be. And then it was one of those situations where when I knew what it was, I walked in the very next day and was just completely like, I had a one 80. I was like, okay, I'm vibing with this thing. I'm vibing with what it's doing now that I know what it is. uh,
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, ah that might happen with the Bone Temple. I get that if it doesn't, but yeah, I had a very similar experience with the first 28 years. I'm just very curious how it will all fit together. Like once we have three and we can watch it as a completed trilogy, like will that track as an arc, you know, like, or, or will it just feel like three separate movies, which is either way is fine. Like it doesn't need to, not everything needs to be meticulously like mapped out ahead of time. I'm just curious, like yeah how much thought did they put into that?
00:11:42
Speaker
I have a feeling there will be an arc for Spike by the end of it. but Yeah. I am very surprised by how much of a separation between these movies there. It does feel chaptered off in a way.
00:11:59
Speaker
Kind of like this is a chapter two ah of this story. We're getting it like just ah a different slice than we got in the first movie.
00:12:11
Speaker
Without, again, spoiling, I feel like I'm becoming dangerously close. like We'll see which what parts of that slice are going to carry over into the next one, and it may not be what you think it's going to be. Right. But ah my initial thoughts on this one, i thought this movie was phenomenal. I was completely blown away by it when I saw just from beginning to end. I remember, too, I forgot what happened.
00:12:37
Speaker
Oh, I remember what happened. I walked into the movie theater with my girlfriend and I've been dealing with a little bit of a back issue. I just had a terrifying m MRI, which was more terrifying than any horror movie I think I'll ever see. I really realized how claustrophobic I was and I tested the points of my anxiety in that moment. So you don't want to go spelunking with me next weekend in that in the the same cave from The Descent? Because I was going to do that.
00:13:06
Speaker
I could never. I was just thinking, oh my God, that lady in the Blair Witch, I i would rather die than be her. The one who gets ah stuck in the fucking tunnel. I haven't seen the original, so I'm not sure if it happens in the original, but it happens in the sequel. you've never seen that? 2016 one, it happens in there.
00:13:25
Speaker
And I had a panic attack watching that movie. I'm very claustrophobic, so... I kept thinking about Final Destination Bloodlines, too. That didn't help. it was it very uncomfortable. Don't think about horror movies. Are you kidding? You're MRI. It was hard. i get They kept popping in my head. a Blair Witch did pop in my head. i was like, oh, my God, I'm going to die in here.
00:13:48
Speaker
um But ah yeah, so I had a bit of ah a moment of back pain and totally fumbled and dropped all of almost all of my girlfriend's ah chicken nuggets all over the theater floor as we were walking. And so I had a real fucking moment. And I realized that the two seats that I had bought us didn't have recliners. Damn. Yeah, so sitting in the theater was going to be a bit more uncomfortable than I expected with my back stuff. So like, damn it. Like, at least the activity you can do with, like, a hurt back, like, a very simple activity is go see a movie.
00:14:27
Speaker
And I was like, damn. this I was immediately put in a bad mood and I was like, fuck, this is going to ruin the movie for me. I'm not going to be able to podcast about it. Doug's going to hate me. We're going to stop being friends.
00:14:41
Speaker
And I was just running all the scenarios.
Film's Impact and Future Directions
00:14:45
Speaker
And then the movie kicks on. I saw that Sony logo. I was like, I'm in good hands. Sony Columbia. colombia there was it is There is something comforting about that. I was like, oh, okay, I'm home. Yeah, it felt it reminds me Spider-Man a little bit. Yeah. But um the movie begins, and I'm just immediately sucked back into this world. I picked right back up where I left off. Didn't even realize how excited I was to be in more of this world as fucking dark as it is. And this movie goes to some pretty dark places. Oh, yeah. But...
00:15:20
Speaker
From beginning to end, I was locked in And this movie pushed my limits as a horror viewer at a certain point. There was a point where I thought I was going to start gagging.
00:15:33
Speaker
got so gross. and up like it was It was almost just so overwhelming at a certain point. I was like, I don't know if I can handle this. And it just, I walked out of this movie and I, aside from the MRI, I have not been able to get this thing off my mind all day, all night.
00:15:54
Speaker
I am just so, just like, fuck yeah. Nia DaCosta delivered an incredible horror movie and While it does it doesn't really expand on Spike's story a whole bunch, I wonder if we're going to see a ripple effect from this movie carry out into the third one to make this one feel a bit more substantial, maybe. Because it does expand, I guess, the lore, for lack of a better word, you know like of of the twenty eight franchise like there's new new stuff is uncovered of like oh I didn't know that was pot this was possible yeah and I just really loved my time with this thing when I walked out of the theater or when I when the movie ended I was sitting there during the credits and
00:16:48
Speaker
There was this older like ah group of women. They were sitting there, one row in front of us. They were just talking about the movie the whole time. And I couldn't really catch a lot of what they were saying.
00:17:01
Speaker
But then the usher came in and was like, hey, what did you guys think of the movie? And they were like, it was phenomenal. And I look at my girlfriend. was like, that's the exact word I put in my review on Letterboxd. Follow me at Nicholas Ewers. I was just riding a high. A couple people tried to get an applause break at the end of this movie going. I wish I could join in, but I was on the other side of the theater. i guess this the ending of this yeah you could applaud to because I got hyped. like it There is a hype moment at the end where i was like, oh, fuck yeah.
00:17:34
Speaker
I think this movie is just so gripping and it like intense. I was kind of surprised there were like no walkouts or everybody was like super cool. like This movie did seem like a genuine crowd pleaser, which is surprising ah to me. I mean, we'll talk about... Yeah, because like I feel like this one's going to go down smoother, it seems like, with general audiences.
00:18:01
Speaker
than the last one, which is funny because as we'll get to in spoilers, like like there's some weird stuff. Yeah. And the last one, i don't know. I'm surprised that one wasn't the the crowd pleaser of the two. If we're going to like try and say like, which one was more crowd pleasing than the other, because when i I watched the first one, I was like, this is very, very watchable. You know what I mean? It's a very watchable zombie movie. And it's like a hero's journey, you know, it almost feels like mythic in a way. It has like a, yeah, a traditional, it almost feels like a new hope kind of. little bit. a
00:18:41
Speaker
Yeah. And this one really pushes the limits, I think, in the horror side of things, but. and And I'm just surprised that that was a something audiences, at least audience I was with, was really able to sit through and want to clap after watching. Yeah, because there's no clean story structure in this one. Yeah.
00:19:05
Speaker
Yeah, like the the things to clap to are mainly just like the excitement that it is building and like ends you on for for for the next one. That made me want applaud of like, oh, fuck, yeah, here we go. Yeah.
00:19:18
Speaker
My breath was taken away at a couple moments. I even gasped at one moment that after the movie. I was talking to my girlfriend. I was like, I gasped at a certain point. I can't believe I almost gasped at that. Or I did gasp at that. It was it was fucking wild.
00:19:36
Speaker
But, ah I mean, are you ready to hop into spoilers? You got anything else you want to tell the people about before we get there? I think I'm ready to do spoilers. But, yeah, just for frame of reference, not that...
00:19:49
Speaker
Rotten Tomatoes means means jack shit, but like the the user review for that for the first 28 years later is it was at compared to the critics And right now the bone temple is 93% critics, 91% audience. So yeah, the first 28 years was, seemed to be a little divisive for, I mean, kind of speaking to what you said, like just going in of like, this isn't what I, you know, cause there's already been one sequel already 28 weeks and years is nothing like that. You know, it's kind of just being like, no push, push to what you know, to the side, we're doing like a different thing.
00:20:31
Speaker
And, I mean, congrats to Nia DaCosta. I love to see it, but, like I mean, because i I'm a big defender of her Candyman, and I am a big defender of the Marvels, too. The Marvels is a very funny Marvel movie, I She has a new movie that's on, I don't know when she would have, yeah, i still have to see Hedda.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, Hedda's very good, too. I forgot that she directed that, and then I'm like, oh, just watched that movie like a month ago, and that's on Prime, want to say. I'm like, when does she have time to do all this? She did Bone Temple, and then that movie, too. Crazy. Hedda's great. I wouldn't be surprised if she shot Hedda after Bone Temple and was able to just edit it and get it out. Because there's less effects, presumably, Hedda, or... And I think they did Bone Temple in the first one. I think they shot him at the same time. So that one probably got to sit for a little bit.
00:21:24
Speaker
And she probably got to do Hedda while that one sat around for little bit, waited to release. And then they did, I think, bump up the release date for the Bone Temple. This was supposed come on, like, March, I want to say. But it was getting, like...
00:21:38
Speaker
like really buzzy early like reviews, so I think that might have played a part of it. And they just went ahead and announced that, like okay, part three is a go, because originally it was going to... The word was from like Boyle and other people like... Well, we'll see how Bone Temple does. like we might not yeah you know We might not have the money or the demand to do like part of it. Can you imagine this movie ending like it does, and then we don't get a follow-up on it? Yeah. That that would be crazy. That be so weird. It would be almost as weird as the Fast and Furious 10 ending. That's the canonical ending that, uh, yeah. Vin and his son are on a dam that's exploding and everyone died. That's, that's how those movies end.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, I noticed like in the marketing and I promise we'll get to spoilers soon guys, but in the marketing for the first movie, Alex Garland was at the forefront of a a lot of it. He was the one doing the podcast. A lot of the times I saw him in the YouTube videos, uh,
00:22:44
Speaker
Nia DaCosta, she's like the face of this advertising thing. I see her all over the place out there interviewing. I think that's a very smart move to put her at the front of this. I think she's like a great personality. and I think she developed a following of her own like with Candyman because like that movie almost has a fandom Like there is overlap with the overall Candyman fandom, but I feel like that movie itself has its appreciators who are like, oh, no, this is just like a really interesting take and like an interesting filmmaking voice that I want to see more of. So I could see people who aren't even normally like horror people being like, oh, she has a new thing out. OK, let's fucking see it.
00:23:27
Speaker
Yeah, so great for her. I'm happy for her success. and i I even forgive her for going on Blank Check and saying the fog isn't very good. that'ss That's how much I appreciate what she did here.
00:23:44
Speaker
I didn't remember that, but that's a weird to have her on if she didn't like it. She was just kind of dismissive of it. She she was kind of just like, yeah, this isn't that great, right? Yeah, that's funny. Like, Nia, there's a fog. how What else do you want? Yeah.
00:24:01
Speaker
So, spoilers ahead for 28 years later, the Bone Temple. let's just do a little table setting and then I guess we can kind of like hop around, ah if we don't want to, cause the movie is like still pretty fresh in my mind. Um, i'm not confident I'll be able to tackle it in order. So we'll just see how the flow of this thing goes.
00:24:21
Speaker
This movie essentially picks up right where the last one left off. We're with spike and the group of Jimmy's, right? All of our favorite Jimmy's, They're like in this pool, basically, and Spike is having a fight to the death with one of the Jimmys.
00:24:37
Speaker
Does he get to pick his own Jimmy like one of the guys later in the movie does? I feel like one of them just comes forward and is just like, yeah. like That confrontation is so chaotic because they're all just kind of like,
00:24:51
Speaker
you know, chanting around him and, and kind of scaring him. And then this one, I think the one that he fights is Jimmy shite. Cause if I'm looking at, uh, IMDB, like they have like little, they're all Jimmy, but then they'll have like a second name, you know, like the leader, sir, Jimmy crystal, there's Jimmy Jones, Jimmy, Jimmy, uh, Jemima, Jimmy snake. And then, uh, just based on how this guy looks, I think Jimmy shites the one that he fights. Yeah, so right away, we're just getting thrown right into this. This movie gets pretty intense and stressful right off the bat. It's bloodier than the first one, I would say. I mean, there's violence people get their heads ripped off in the first one, but we're we're definitely like in more gory, gruesome territory in this one.
00:25:44
Speaker
I didn't really know exactly what to expect after 28 years later ended, but I kindt i didn't really expect this. i I didn't know what the deal was going to be with this group, but part of me was wondering, is 28 years later the Bone Temple going to be These guys welcome Spike into his group, and then we start to really see what mainland UK is like after the infection, and we're going to learn, oh, it's actually not the nightmare that his dad kind of made it seem to be, and it was going to... I felt like there was going to be a lot of nuance to it, and we were going to get like, okay, there's... there's
00:26:34
Speaker
I thought we were going to get a bunch of different variety of people. Maybe like Like different factions and stuff, maybe. Yeah, and I thought it was going to be totally proving Spike's dad wrong the it. This is almost proving right. It's like, you know, it's fucking scary and everyone's awful out there. Immediately you're like, oh no, this group is not good for Spike.
00:26:59
Speaker
This is a bad immediately. Go back to the island, kid. you're not They i don't seem like a good in influence. So I haven't re-listened to your 28 Years episode, but do you go do you mention like what these guys are like modeled after? like Why they're called Jimmies and like why they're dressed like that?
00:27:21
Speaker
We did not. So if you know that, that would be awesome if you could get into it Because I wasn't aware of this information ah last time we recorded. Unfortunately, these 28 years later episodes, the weapons one, they've kind of been a bit more reactionary because of how soon we've recorded after seeing them.
00:27:39
Speaker
Well, and some of this stuff is like Garland's putting stuff in it. So like hyper specific to like British culture. So like I really only knew very tendentially about this guy, Jimmy Saville, who was like a he was basically like ah a kid's entertainer, ah a media personality. He was like a DJ. don't even know what like what.
00:28:01
Speaker
what the American equivalent would be It would be like if Mr. Rogers did a lot more shit, like publicly, like if he was like at events and like, hosting different programs and in shit. And then, ah yeah, he had like the long blonde hair, like, like that they're wearing. and then after he died in 2011, came out that he was a horrible pedophile and was abusing like kids all the time. And I guess people knew, but they were, you know, like, He was making a lot of money, so they covered it up a little bit. And yeah, this all all this horrible shit. I think there's like a documentary on on Netflix about it. I do not have the stomach to watch that documentary. It sounds probably really awful. But yeah.
00:28:50
Speaker
yeah, if you want to know more about his crimes, you can you can watch watch watch that doc. But this is like an alternate world where, so because of like, when did the outbreak happen in in the 28 Years universe? It was like 2002 or 2003, I think. So so a kid who grew up during this time, he would have known Jimmy from the TV, but never would have found out that he was evil. you know like So so like he's like still like a role model and someone to look up to for like,
00:29:20
Speaker
uh our jimmy crystal which is interesting so it's like this like weird subversion of like but it also almost kind of conflicts with their because like even from their point of view they know what they're doing is fucked up like because like i didn't know that going in that they were satanists so like that being like their belief system is it's it's like this weird dichotomy between like okay their role model is this guy who they think is like wholesome a good person who is later unveiled to not be that but then also they worship the devil so it's like it was like okay it's like which one is it i mean the things aren't this different we know that but like for them it's like hmm which so
00:30:12
Speaker
seems like you're really more into the devil thing. Alex Garland really twisted a very dark web with this whole ah character right here. And you almost have to applaud him for being able to reach to such vile places in reality and be like, okay, this character is an amalgamation of something so terrible and he is going to enact terrible things across people. But then he's also...
00:30:41
Speaker
half influenced by Teletubbies too. and That seems funny when he's just describing like what it is. is like, nah, yeah, he's got like ah a TV on his belly. There's a scene where he's telling a story, ah like he's almost describ but describing an episode of Teletubbies and And I was reading online that somebody was saying it it's actually the Book of Eden and talking about the forbidden fruit, and it's not even an actual episode of Teletubbies. That's crazy. so i wonder if there was something to that, and that's a part of Jimmy's fucked up... What would you even call it? this fucked up is His like belief system? Because it's like a rejection of Christianity. His dad was you know part of the church, and so he's rejecting that and rejecting Christianity, and that's why that's where the Satanism comes from, I guess. but
00:31:39
Speaker
But then you're also... layering the hero worship of, of this, this horrible person and into it too. And then this, like all the child culture, cultural things he would have been influenced by as a kid. So, so it's, it's like he never grew up from being that scared, scared kid that we see in the beginning of, ah you know, the prologue of the first 28 years, but he just, you know, amassed a gang and like, you know, of some other kind of lost boys. And now they just go around rampaging and like killing people.
00:32:13
Speaker
And like everybody, every kid who grows up to be, you know, damaged by their father, he basically goes in the opposite direction of his father. His father is like, this is,
00:32:27
Speaker
you know the rapture or whatever he doesn't straight up say that but his dad in the last movie is like a priest or some type of pastor for a church in their area he's kind of happy that this is happening it looks like that like when the zombies are here he's like oh finally Yeah, he's like, oh, God sent this. Yes. And so he totally welcomes being turned into a zombie and then a zombified version of his dad ends up leading a crowd of other zombies out of the church. Almost looks like he's like an alpha or like an early version of an alpha or something.
00:33:03
Speaker
so he And he says, I want to say in that line, Father, why have you forsaken me? Which comes back at the end of this movie. That's kind of nice. But he just basically goes in the opposite direction. And I kind of thought that made sense. I'm like, okay, he's a kid, so he doesn't really...
00:33:19
Speaker
have like all the gray area about religions in the world that you grow up to get as an adult that would turn you into an agnostic or make you start to question. So he just pivots in the opposite direction. Like it's like, okay, the devil then the same. Yeah. but My dad abandoned me. I think this is horseshit. This was actually the devil and the devil caused all of this.
00:33:44
Speaker
And I'm just going to turn my beliefs in the opposite direction. And, as ridiculous of an idea that Satanism is and seems to be. Because I could see that it just sounds silly, i think, especially in this day and age, the idea of Satanism. But it it makes sense in this movie for this character to go there. It makes sense for that character. And then also in the world they inhabit, it like...
00:34:12
Speaker
what where where do you think, what they don't know that it was a monkey in a lab started all this, you know, that's the rage virus. So if you have any kind of religious inkling and then you see what i mean they're not the dead rising or whatever but you see someone go down and they come back as a bloodthirsty monster then you're gonna think that that's like demonic right like that that looks like evil you know yeah so where the character is with his beliefs i i fully buy but yeah jimmy he's a fucking horrific dude he's not nice
00:34:50
Speaker
Yeah, he's kind of a bad guy. Somebody should arrest him, I think. ah Shit, there's no more cops. Who's going arrest him? We had talked about before the spoiler section about how this movie is kind of split into two parts that really meet at the end. And I kind of like that a little bit, that that framing for this movie that we've landed on for it. Because the whole time I didn't know they you know, they kept showing the Bowdoin Temple and Dr. Kelson in in the in the previews. But i was like, okay, how is that going to work in with the Jimmies initially from the way they were advertising it?
00:35:31
Speaker
I thought Kelson was going to like intentionally infect himself or something with like alpha blood or something. And then that poster really made it seem that way. He looked, he looked infected and and I was like, Oh, so he's going to go crazy and like fight the Jimmies or something. I didn't see a trailer, but I saw that poster, and I was like, what is going on?
00:35:53
Speaker
This guy seems different when he did last one. Something little different about him. Yeah, I can't put my finger on it, but I was like, what's his... Guess I gotta go see this one. Good marketing. watch it.
00:36:09
Speaker
What's his deal now? He wasn't like that in the first one. And I gotta without getting too into the ending, my audience fucking loved that Iron Maiden moment.
00:36:23
Speaker
People started to clap a little bit after that Kelson moment that we get at the Bone Temple at the end. I mean, it's it's a good perform it's a good performance by Ralph Fiennes, but it's a good performance by Kelson, too. So he deserves some some kudos. Like, oh, wow, well well played, sir. And visually, it's just well shot and directed. I think Nia DaCosta handled that scene very well because that could kind of turn out to be laughable. But you're right there with him. you're like, yeah, he's doing it. He's fucking winning them over. There's multiple things in this movie that if...
00:37:01
Speaker
handled not correctly could have been super goofy. There's that, the Iron Maiden thing. And then there's several Duran Duran needle drops because that's like the, what Kelson listens to in his spare time. But like when they're having those montages where like,
00:37:17
Speaker
duran duran's playing he's just like hanging out with samson like that could have been disastrous if it was like yeah like i to me i'm like in awe and it's almost like there's like a tenderness to it where i'm just like damn that i was ah i i yeah all the kelson stuff like kind of just blew me away like it did in the the last movie he's like probably just like one of my favorite characters and in a zombie movie like my favorite character from this franchise i think no You're so right. In the wrong hands, that could have been laughable. But I was right on board with ah all all of the fucking Kelsen-Sampson stuff. But like going back to the this movie is two separate parts thing, the more conventional stuff, Spike, like the horror stuff with Jimmy and Spike and all the other Jimmys,
00:38:11
Speaker
That one, i can't quite put my finger on who... like Spike is kind of the POV, but the POV hops around in that one a little bit. because that's i don't know Spike just isn't the focus. There's a scene moment where Spike is completely like out of the barn and we're just watching the other characters in the Jimmy Squad do their thing. It's almost like Jimmy Crystal is hijacking the movie for a little bit because like it's not even because there's the other Jimmy who like, you know kind of takes Spike under her wing, but she's not really the POV. Like we see some things like where she just she discovers where Kelson is, but like she's also absent for some scenes like that barn scene. Like she's just sitting outside with Spike. So it really kind of just feels like.
00:39:03
Speaker
Like, just similar to how he just, like, takes that house captive that, like, Jimmy's just, like, pointing ah and a knife at the camera crew and was like, come on, this is my movie now. But even in that whole section of the movie, it will it will jump to moments. Like, one thing that I kind of love that these movies do, like, the visual language they've kind of set up for themselves a little bit is...
00:39:31
Speaker
you'll it'll just randomly drop you into a scene where you're watching other characters you're like but i don't know who these people are i don't know what their deal is and then you see a chain of events happen and then whatever happens eventually you pick up the p like oh this is how this is going to affect our characters one of our characters whether it be a scene with Samson or a scene with these three people where one character gets killed and you think the character being killed and turning into a zombie is going to be what's the substantial part. But no, it's actually the two characters who survive that are the substantial part of this and who are going to have a hand and affect the characters within the main storyline that we're watching. Yeah.
00:40:20
Speaker
But while Spike does get sidelined in those parts, I kind of think at the end of the day, this movie, and whether you like this or not, I think it really depends on what you want out of this movie.
00:40:38
Speaker
I think this movie is trying to be a Samson movie. I, well, I also, I really love the Samson stuff because I was not expecting him to be, you don't think of infected as like characters. Like there's like cool infected designs or cool zombies looking zombies and like other zombie movies where it's like, oh, that's a really iconic designer. That's a cool looking, you know, like monster or something. But since the last movie kept hammering home of like, no, they're us. The, they're just, you know, they have a virus. Like they're not,
00:41:12
Speaker
there's not really much different between us and the and infected. And then this is kind of like doubling and tripling down on that. it was like, yeah, it's, they're sick. So like, if you treat them, maybe you can start to restore some of that humanity that it's not just, they're not just like mindless monsters forever. And I, I think the way it's done is so brilliant because there's,
00:41:37
Speaker
It could come off as cheesy in ah in a movie and like where like a character, quote-unquote, discovers a cure or whatever, but none of it feels easy easy or like a cheat. And then it also kind of helps that...
00:41:52
Speaker
I mean, this maybe could die with, know, you know, you're already in spoilers and jumping around, but Kelsen's dead at the end. And he was really the only one who was looking into this for all we know, Kelsen could be one of the last doctors ever, you know, at least on the Island because, uh, within the UK, because, ah It didn't seem seem like there's a lot of them left. And whatever breakthroughs he made, like I don't know that Samson, even if he can like communicate now, like Samson Beal to like tell other people, like okay, these are the drugs Kelson gave me, and this is a drug combo, and we can reverse it with this. like It's like, this might have just been a one-off thing.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah, this is that's what me and my girlfriend were talking about. Damn, if this were a one-off thing, I wouldn't hate it. And I didn't expect 28 years to be the zombie franchise to land on having a cure and finding a cure for this thing.
00:42:52
Speaker
You know, I'm thinking like Dawn of the Dead doesn't do that. The Walking Dead is something where I don't think they ever got there. They're still going there. It's something that doesn't really seem to successfully get pulled off in zombie media, at least not from anything I've seen.
00:43:11
Speaker
But man, this movie, I didn't think this this would be the franchise, but they successfully pulled it off in a way where I'm like, Yeah, that totally works. I buy that. And like, maybe they're not going to stop this thing, but I buy it.
00:43:24
Speaker
I don't question it for a second. Yeah. Yeah. And if they did eventually get to a point where it's like, maybe we'll stop this thing. Maybe other people are start to figure out, figure this out. Maybe Samson was able to retain this in his life.
00:43:38
Speaker
drug psychosis and is able to figure it out or experiment himself. I don't know how far the movie is going to, the next one's going to take the Samson thing, but I feel like, I hope he sticks around because then that could also be a thing where maybe people are are intentionally trying to capture Samson a way where it's like, Oh, he might, he's the cure to unlocking it. But then, you know, it's like, well, I'm,
00:44:03
Speaker
he's He's been cured now, so we need to respect his autonomy. And it's like with any kind of like reverse engineering of a cure, can almost be like a Last of Us scenario where it's like, well, would that kill him? Like, what what if like the the way to like figure out to like recreate what he had worked with him, that process would actually, he wouldn't survive. And it's like, well, then do we do that?
00:44:27
Speaker
And I think maybe the way we get there in the next movie is by Samson recognizing Spike in some way and that setting off a chain of events because that's Samson's only link to this world and the only way... like What is any other character's reason to not immediately try to kill Samson? I guess he is kind of indestructible unless you shoot like a giant hook through him.
00:44:56
Speaker
but I just, I don't know how the movie gets there. So it being a one-off. Spike saved Samson's son. Like that, that zombie, that infected baby was, is for to believe like, right. yeah That was Samson's Samson's kid. So and are we going to loop back around? Cause we need to don't go back to spikes Island. Like when we cut away to those other survivors, I thought for a second we we were going to see Aaron Taylor Johnson, like on the hunt or something like, maybe trying to find spike or something but so they're all still on the board maybe or maybe he's just like kind of wrote it off of like oh my son's dead i'm just like i don't know it's he probably died out there i'm just gonna stay on this island get drunk yeah well not much time has passed and the tide looked like it had just started coming up when aaron taylor johnson was running out at the end of the movie being Spike! Spike!
00:45:54
Speaker
I was kind of glad that he didn't pop up in this movie. I was just like, this movie doesn't need another thing happening in it. There's already enough going on, but I i do find his character fascinating because it's like...
00:46:09
Speaker
i I don't even think of him as like a bad dad, like that. He's just like, do he's in an impossible, like how do you even fucking raise a kid in that world and that scenario? And so, yeah, she's not loyal to the mom, but the mom's kind of already gone at that point too. It's like, so how do you navigate that? And then like trying to raise your kid to be tough enough to survive in that world. Like I'm like, yeah, he's doing the best he can. Kind of.
00:46:36
Speaker
I kind of sympathize with with his character. With Spike. With with Aaron Turner Johnson. Because Spike oh aaron sees him as as like a liar. Like, oh, you lied to me about mom and you're unfaithful to her. But i'm like, I don't know, man. He's doing his best. Yeah, you had an argument. ah What was it, an argument? We got in a fight. Now, you had made a your defense for the dad, and that kind of turned me around. I softened up a little bit on Aaron Taylor Johnson after hearing your your piece on him. You wrote a very serious think piece. I mean, yeah, he's not a perfect guy. he He fucks up for sure, but, like, yeah, I think just given the circumstances, it's like there's not...
00:47:19
Speaker
It's slim picking for dads and father figures in in this world, so I feel like you could end up a lot worse than than Aaron Taylor Johnson. like At least he's like teaching you the how to hunt and survive.
00:47:31
Speaker
I do wonder what the third movie is going to kind of... Pick out what it's going to bring over from these previous two, because like we said, Aaron Taylor Johnson, his face doesn't grace this movie, not one frame.
00:47:47
Speaker
Then we lose Jimmy and basically all of the Jimmy's. their whole belief system is crumbled by the end of it. And they're like, yeah, there is no God. This is a science-driven world. Everybody's in a very different and specific place.
00:48:05
Speaker
You took Kelsen off the board. And then there's, like, shit from the first movie where we're seeing flashes of weird stuff and people wearing masks when we're at the island. And I'm wondering...
00:48:19
Speaker
How much of that was style choices and Danny Boyle kind of being like, I want to incorporate, because some I know he was having stuff from like, oh, this is like British history and we're showing how we repeat, like history repeats itself and we just do the same thing and we set these things in place. Like we and like are almost like imitating society and an imitation of ourself at a certain point.
00:48:46
Speaker
ah So I just don't know what the intention with like all of the flashes of the people wearing masks and stuff from the first movie here but Because we also see the Jimmy's put on mask, animal mask kind of, that look kind of similar to those masks that we saw on the island. So I don't know if that's like to what you said, the broader point of like that this is just like this cyclical nature of, of,
00:49:13
Speaker
of humanity or, or, or like maybe like kind of the regression of us that we're, you know, going tribal again in a certain way. Cause yeah, I, I, I don't, I don't, I'm not sure hundred percent, but like that definitely seems like that's part of,
00:49:29
Speaker
what they're, they're grappling with, but there's so many things on the table now. Cause like, yeah, I mean, we're already in spoilers at the end. Yeah. We have Jim there at the end with, with, with the little girl and no Naomi Harris. Uh, I mean, we don't know what the story is there. Maybe she died or maybe, um,
00:49:50
Speaker
that she went off or we we just don't know yet. So like all that still on the table. ah i feel like it's more likely that she just died in the intervening years. Like it's been a long time. So like Jim just might be a single dad. Also, is there some intentionality in, cause like,
00:50:11
Speaker
Jim's baked in. He was the original character from the first movie, but then we have a whole faction in an evil cult called Jimmy's. And so spike escapes the Jimmy's and the first guy he's going to meet after that is named Jim.
00:50:26
Speaker
Like, like is, is that setting just setting up like some kind of joke or like what, what was spike's reaction? I mean, obviously spike understands the concept of like people with Multiple people can have the same name or similar kind of names, but I don't know. It might be kind of jarring if you're like a little kid and you were just escaping this death cult. And then this guy is like, hey, my name's Jim.
00:50:52
Speaker
like ah fuck It's going to be more awkward when him and that girl realize that they have the same name. She's like, I'm Jimmy, too. It could be it's like, damn it. How are we going to... Talking is going to be weird now, knowing who we're talking about or to.
00:51:10
Speaker
Yeah. And then Samson, we got to get Samson to join their merry band. They're basically, this is basically in my mind, like an RPG party that they're building, you know, like they, we got spike, we got, ah what, what she say her real name is at the end, like Kelly or something. Uh, so we, we, we got her, uh, we got Jim, we got Jim's, uh, daughter and then Samson. That's basically like, yeah, that's,
00:51:36
Speaker
they're just gonna roam around the, the post apocalypse. Like, yeah. And what, to, to what end is it going to be about, uh, you know, like the cure that exists within Samson or like, uh, replicating that or, or what, what will it be? Because like, it could go in any number of directions now.
00:51:56
Speaker
I do like that their group is kind of like the Thunderbolts a little bit, if you think about It's a little Thunderbolts coded, yeah. Yeah.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know how I feel about the gym thing. I actually totally forgot that he was even a part of these movies because I was so sucked into the Bone Temple. I was living in the temple, man, living on temple time. This is so much its own world that like, yeah, I'm not really even thinking about the original movie. Of course, you see Killian Murphy and then I immediately, my mind goes back to, and then you start hearing that.
00:52:36
Speaker
you know, that the guitar, like the theme from the original. Yeah, I got pretty pumped. It was hard not to get pumped, even though I was afraid that this is some weird studio fulfillment that we're getting right now. And I hope they just do something with Jim that...
00:52:58
Speaker
doesn't i trust Alex Garland and Danny Boyle, but i I was just like, these movies don't really need Jim to come back. I would be fine if he didn't come back at all.
00:53:10
Speaker
They could do the anti-legacy sequel thing, and like he just fucking gets bit at the very beginning of the third one. you know like you like They kind of trick people into seeing it because Killing Murphy's face is on the poster, those big blue eyes. And then then like after the credits, he's like, hey welcome to my cabin. And it's like, ah!
00:53:31
Speaker
yeah what What if it the third one just got super fan service-y and Jim dies? he But before he dies, he's like looking up at a bird picking in a body and he's like, get out of it.
00:53:49
Speaker
Get out of it. Then he kicks it and the bird flies off and blood gets in his and we're like, just like Brendan Gleeson. Yeah.
00:53:59
Speaker
And then the force goes to Brendan Gleeson shows up and is like, remember, Jim, you can't, you can't. go after the kid when you turn. Remember, Jim, i was a cab driver. I knew all the streets. I was a black cabbie. Or you go superfan Cersei where Jim gets infected and Samson's like, I'll train you.
00:54:22
Speaker
you could be You could be an infected but a badass now. We're going to become an infected warrior squad. so those are all the bad...
00:54:35
Speaker
ideas that they can do. What about a good idea? What if Spike walks up and hands him his lightsaber and then Jim just tosses it? He tosses it And then the fans are like, that's so disrespectful to the original movies. Like, why why would he toss it? And then they'll make another movie where Jim's force ghost makes a con. He's like, I'm just kidding. I would never toss my lightsaber. That would be that that would be so stupid. i would love to see half of that, actually. i don't know about the force ghost thing. I think we're back in bad idea territory.
00:55:15
Speaker
You know, like the first ghost, you don't want to see Dr. Kelson show up and be like, use the Duran Duran. I would be fine if Dr. Kelson was just inexplicably alive in the next one, still at the Bone Temple, or his ghost was guarding the Bone Temple. yeah there's ghosts now. Whatever. Deal with it Yeah, this is a ghost movie. Okay.
00:55:42
Speaker
You thought it was just science? Well, I guess there's good there's ghosts too. there's yeah I don't know. I know we kind of just you know went pretty quickly to the ending. I mean, we're an hour deep, but ah I'm going to jump back a little bit.
00:55:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we we were kind of jumping all around over stuff. No, I think that we we landed in a good place, though. we I think they're listening because I don't think they started filming the third one yet.
00:56:14
Speaker
So they're listening right now, and they're taking notes of our ideas, and there are no bad ideas in a pitch meeting, as they say. yeah so I think everything we said is going to make it into 28 years later,
00:56:27
Speaker
rise of spike the rise of Samson's dong. I'm so glad that he, because in the previews, we didn't see it rise at all. I know that that's for the next one, but in the previews, we only saw clove Samson, and I thought Nia DaCosta was like censoring Samson or something. I was like, how dare you cover up his body? But it's like, no, actually him putting on clothes is part of his arc. It's like, the clothes equals human. When yeah when you would you put clothes When you put pants on, that means you you're ashamed of of your nakedness and you're human. And I'm i'm curious of like, what...
00:57:08
Speaker
What makes him lose his status as elf? Because like the other infected are like ready to pounce on him. Like when he's sitting in that train car in the one scene where he's like having the flashback. So I'm like, he's still like infected. So i' I'm like, is it, does he have less of a viral load now that they can smell or s sense? Or does he just smell more human? Cause he was hanging out with Kelson. Like, what is it?
00:57:31
Speaker
that they know that has changed that they can now fuck with him? Is it just like, they're just, the vibes are off. They're like, ah, you're fucking weak now. Pluribus has kind of changed the way that ive think about viral infections now.
00:57:48
Speaker
And guys go hop over to the, these guys got juice feed. Doug and I have some really good pluribus talk over there. And if you haven't checked that show out, check it out on Apple TV plus. It's great.
00:57:59
Speaker
Spoilers, I guess, for like conceptual parts of Pluribus. So when they all attacked him, my mind went to, okay, this is a virus and they have a biological imperative to spread and he is no longer like infected in the way that they are. I don't know. I was trying to bring it back to a biological imperative. But the difference Samson is still infected because he can get bit and bit and and he's fine. It doesn't reverse like what Kelson did.
00:58:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He's just out of whatever psychosis that the infection has everybody in. which is pretty, a pretty wild revelation. The only thing that kind of rubbed me the wrong way in the movie is when we got the zombie POV and we got to see what they were attacking.
00:58:54
Speaker
It ah was hard. That was the part where I'm like, this is, Tiptoeing into comical a little bit, whereas Nia DaCosta was really able to not land in a comical area with all of the other stuff we had talked about. Those cuts were when they cut to what the infected were seeing.
00:59:16
Speaker
it was like... ah not 100% working for me, but I like, it didn't ruin anything for me. I like the concept of that they're experiencing psychosis. it's like Kelson said, like I've seen infected attack a baby viciously. So like, what are you actually seeing? But wouldn't it be more interesting if like what the POV of what they're seeing is like specific to that person? Because it kind of just seems like when we see the, Samson POV, it's like, oh they're just seeing like a monster or something and like going crazy and attacking it. But that that just felt like a little generic, you know, like like, yeah, what they're seeing should be like, yeah, personal to them.
00:59:58
Speaker
No, I agree. gene it Kind of surprisingly generic, but I do understand that feels like a difficult thing to portray and a difficult idea to kind of really land on. like If you're going to go into the POV... You need to quickly visualize and get away ah across that idea of, like okay, they're seeing something that's like making them want to like attack it in a blind rage, and like what, ah yeah. What, what do you show besides like a a fucking scary monster uh,
01:00:33
Speaker
I don't know, show Charlie Kirk or something. I can't think of many things that you really could show. So maybe they landed in the best place, but it it's just maybe they were going in an area that you were just destined to not really hit a home run with when you're starting to tiptoe into zombie POV.
01:00:59
Speaker
ah It wasn't entirely successful for me, but it didn't like hurt the movie in any drastic way. Because like you said, I agree with you. like I like the psychosis thing, and I like Kelsen, his reversal of that. That whole thing worked so hard for me.
01:01:16
Speaker
And i had mentioned that I had gasped at a certain point. The moment I'm talking about is when he says moon, when Samson says moon And shout out to Chi Lewis Perry. I'm not sure if that's how you pronounce his name. Chi Lewis Perry, ah ah whichever way.
01:01:35
Speaker
He's fantastic in this movie. He's just great. he got him and His work with Ray Fiennes is incredible. i I love it. It's so funny to see them promoting the movie and then him just like dressed like with glasses and a normal dude. I'm like,
01:01:53
Speaker
why aren't you naked? You're supposed to be naked and running around rampaging. It wasn't until I was watching the movie where I was like, oh, that's the dude I've been seeing in the fucking interviews with everybody. Yeah. but he's He's great, yeah. But when he says was like...
01:02:08
Speaker
i was like It made me gasp, and I almost laughed at myself a little bit because of how ridiculous of a thing that was to gasp at. It's not ridiculous. It's not like you saw Anthony Ramos. was done. no. I saw ah two callbacks on the morbid feed to our twisters up. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised too because I didn't know that that's what we were – like, obviously, Kelsen's POV on the infected has been established, and, like, we know that he's trying something.
01:02:42
Speaker
But I kind of just, like, wasn't even thinking it was going to work. I was like, okay, the best he can hope for is Samson doesn't smash his face and while he's drugged or something. and But, like you like, actually, like, restoring humanity, I don't know. This this franchise is too – bleak for anything like that to be successful but then him to actually like be speaking is like crazy and then the the word last words he says to Kelson at the end where he's like thanks him it's like powerful moving stuff it is and it just yeah I feel like
01:03:18
Speaker
you need this levity because these moments with Kelson, I loved it. I didn't want to leave. And even horrific... They're a good hang. Yeah, they are. And the Jimmy stuff with Spike was very interesting. And the horror was, again, it delivered. But what this movie does so masterfully, and I feel like it's just Alex Garland and Nia DaCosta, they... knocked it out of the park and Ray fines and Chee Louis Perry's like performance with Samson is in the first movie. When Samson is around, I'm terrified every second for the characters thinking he's going to come out of this drug thing. He's going to rip everybody's heads off. He's fucking terrifying. And when you're in the second movie, you get a little bit of that terrifying for a second. When Kelson's drugging him, there's a point where it's like, You're letting him get a little too close, buddy. And glad he knocked him out ah when he did, or he put him in the ah drug state when he did. But what this movie does so well, and it's such an amazing flip that I didn't expect is at a certain point, I'm afraid for Samson. I'm like, keep Jimmy and his fucking asshole group away from Samson, protect Samson. I don't want anybody to hurt Samson. Yeah, like he's going to be more vulnerable in this state. So like I really I didn't want anything to happen to him because I loved love their bond. And like, yeah, I wasn't I didn't even know it was going to end culminated like him, like fully being able to talk or being.
01:05:01
Speaker
You know, I feel like you should put cured in quotation marks because like we said, like he's still infected, but it's like the the thing that's making him attack people has been addressed. Like he's his psychosis has been treated. So it's like he's no longer like a raving threat. Like he's he's like closer to being an intelligent like person, like with his own agency now.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yeah, and you really you grow to care for him as, like you said, a person with agency. It's so well done. And another quick shout out to Nia DaCosta.
01:05:37
Speaker
There's something she does with Samson very early on in the movie that I just... Love. It's so quick, but it feels like an homage to old school zombie movies and just the concept of zombies. I'm thinking like Return of the Living Dead, I want to say. But Samson, there's a point after he rips a dude's skull or like face off whatever, and he rips the top of their skull open and is eating their brains. And that got an ugh from people in my audience. But I thought, I was like, yeah, that's old school zombie. And they're doing it in not a super cheesy, dumb way. Then they're pulling it off. It's just straightforward. like you're Like, oh, that's, yeah, there would be some kind of nourishment in that part of the skull. And he's powerful enough to just fucking, because skulls are like fucking heavy. But he's...
01:06:28
Speaker
Big Hulk like him, he can break through that shit, no problem. And I love that when 28 days and 28 weeks were just the only two things we had, there was a bit of a debate as to whether these were zombies. People were like, you can't call them zombies, call them infected. And I love how it almost seems like they are purposely messing with the audience where people call them zombies. They have zombie like behaviors, but then they go to things where it's like, oh, no, this is ah a psychosis type of thing. Or we are, you know, tiptoe into actual like classic zombie stuff like this is hell on earth happening right now.
01:07:12
Speaker
but I just like a lot of the shit that they're playing with and how they are kind of leaning more into no zombies. Yeah. Like, right. Like they kind of just dismantled that online argument.
01:07:25
Speaker
Yeah. Which I always thought was silly. Cause I'm like, everything goes by its own rules. Like, like, are you just going to not count and like viral zombies at all? Because original zombies were all voodoo and magic. So it's like, If if we're just being rigid, it's like, those are the only zombies. And like that would discount like a lot of Romero stuff or whatever. So it's like drawing a line at any point is kind of arbitrrbi arbitrary. It's just like, it's up to like what are the rules of this uniort of this universe? And that's what i love about...
01:07:58
Speaker
these last two movies specifically is that we kind of keep expanding on like what that means. You get a little bit of that in weeks with the, like, it's very clear that the dad is like, not just a normal infected, like that there's like something in there, like when when he's like chasing down his kids. But I feel like this is like a much like more thorough elaboration on, on that in, in the, the 28 years later movies where it's like, Yes, no, there is still a person inside there.
01:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, that 28 weeks, that was almost like, we have a concept of an idea in this thing, and we're just kind of, what if the dad is like the leader, and they don't really do anything substantial or meaningful with it? They don't want to commit to like making that mean anything, so they don't like, you know, have a scientist be like, oh, well, he's clearly blah, blah. And we, you know, like the alpha of the zombies or something. So like, yeah, yeah they, they, they just use that for, you know, the purpose of cool zombie set pieces.
01:09:04
Speaker
I mentioned this in our 28 Weeks episode, which a movie I don't even dislike, but there is a point in that movie where they do literally burn every interesting potential storyline and path that that movie could take, and they're just like, no, we're not interested. Zombie movie. That's what we're doing.
01:09:26
Speaker
These are zombies. But one thing... I do feel like this and them leaning into them being zombies more is an Alex Garland thing. Absolutely.
01:09:38
Speaker
He was on the Jeff Goldsmith Q&A around the time Ex Machina came out. And that's actually a great interview. If you are interested in screenwriting, that whole podcast is a treasure of their back catalog, especially. I'll check it out.
01:09:53
Speaker
yeah Jeff Goldsmith comes on and the first thing that he says to Alex Garland is, okay, let's settle the 28 days later debate. They're not zombies. They're infected. And then he goes in this big thing of other zombies and Alex Garland is like,
01:10:08
Speaker
I kind of thought they're zombies. yeah and Yeah. He seems to disagree with that. And I feel like that's almost Alex Garland being like, no, they're zombies. I think they're zombies. So I'm just going to tell you, people are going to say the word zombie in these movies, which I do really appreciate. Yeah. And like, if you're writing it like a zombie movie and thinking of zombies while you're writing it and and then people literally call them zombies in your movie, then it's a zombie movie.
01:10:38
Speaker
But there's, we've kind of been jumping around, ah like, the the plot, we mentioned, like, the the people that the Jimmy's massacre, like, in in the middle of the movie, like, that that that sequence is so brutal, or he calls it charity, you know, like, what he does to him when they're chained up, which is... which is fucked up, but the one woman gets away and she's pregnant. And so we've like also thrown around ideas of like, what else is on the board? Like, do we think that that's going to become a thing or is that just a moment for Spike? Because he...
01:11:14
Speaker
i understandably is like take me with you I'm gonna fucking get away from these guys and you kind of think that she's like going to you know because you see a child in danger like especially as ah a motherly figure would be like oh okay I'll protect you but her priority is to protect her own child then so she fucking yeah like attacks like knees him and then runs off because it's like how can she trust him and you know she that could be a trap or something No, that's a good move. And ah yes, that's why they could have him just for that reason, you know.
01:11:47
Speaker
But I mean, because the other girl like does fucking fairy wing dances in the kitchen that. Yeah. You don't expect that she's going to be a badass fighter and they kind of do that intentionally. When shit goes crazy in that barn, i love of that sequence because, yeah, you have the one who was doing the the tinky winky dance and she's like about to like murder murder the fuck out of the like the guy that they did in Skin.
01:12:13
Speaker
They gave him the choice of like, okay, who which finger do you want to fight? And he picks her and he's definitely going to lose. But then the woman who's in the rafters watching, like she like shoots some kind of... like What does she shoot at the back of her head? It's like a hook. It's like a hook or something that hooks her head. And then he gets a hold of like a gas fucking canister and he just starts fucking lighting. everyone off yeah I love how quickly it goes to shit.
01:12:41
Speaker
That scene was upsetting on just a number of levels. i So that movie goes to a degree that the first one doesn't really go to.
01:12:57
Speaker
and ah maybe it works because DaCosta really withholds on what she's showing you in this moment. They say it's like removal of the shirt or something like that.
01:13:07
Speaker
And then you can see later they've been skinned, but it's like kind of out of focus. Like we never have like a straight on shot of the like skinned woman or guy, but you can see, you can tell that's what happened. Well, even before that, too, it looks like they're cutting off the skin and uneven sections. Like, some of them start at the belly. Some of them start in other areas. But you can't really see exactly what's going on. These characters are screaming. You know it's horrific. Like, you're alive while this is happening. That's... crazy yeah they're alive they're awake they're just dangling there and it like you kind of have an idea of what's happening and there's just screaming going on the whole time it's pretty upsetting it's very difficult at least for me it was very difficult to watch it was a very intense experience especially for how long it goes on and
01:14:06
Speaker
There are moments where you get a little bit of breaks, like Spike has to run out and throw up. And so then the movie has reasons to take you outside of the barn and relieve you. Like, here, let's hang out here with Spike. It's kind of intense in there. Yeah, and so you're just left with the horrifying screams, and you don't know exactly what's going on. And then later, it cuts there. And yeah, like you said, it's out of focus. They're dangling there. And when you actually get the reveal, it's I like thought I was going to throw open my mouth for a second. like Actually, before the reveal, I think, because I was like, I know what it is. It's worse than I thought.
01:14:43
Speaker
It's so awful. I don't want to see It's just the casualness of it that makes it so cruel and gross because it's like like it they've done it so many times that it means nothing to them. like that they Like, they're not like Spike where they fucking throw up. It's so gross. They're just like, yeah, it's whatever. And all for what? It's so horrifying. I mean, this movie, I think intentionally so, I would say is depraved and has depraved thoughts yeah that like you don't really see in a lot of, well, this isn't technically American
01:15:22
Speaker
horror. It's an American studio now. i don't i always i don't really always know what to call this because Sony's producing these fucking things now. Right, but but it's like a mainstream you know like horror movie. like It's something that yeah every everyone's seeing. And you don't really see this level of depravity.
01:15:42
Speaker
I find it... I think it's harder to watch than anything I've seen across the Terrifier movies covered on this feed. Yeah, it's it's bad. because it's It's up there with Bring Her Back, I think, in the knife-chewing scene, but it's a lot longer, and it almost pushes me to a point where I was like, the movie's gonna lose me. It was so close to losing me, and when they're like, we're gonna de-pants you, and I'm like, i already saw the them take off the shirt. I know what taking off your pants means, and there's genitals there, and yeah i don't want to see genital mutilation they would have lost me if they did that probably don't know ah the movie was that close to losing me and the hook in the head just when i was like thank god something stopped to this it was a relief well yeah i was like i was so happy for them to be lit on fire because it was like oh okay we don't have to keep going with this
01:16:44
Speaker
But then the barn is burning and you see the two people hanging are burning. It's like all fucking wild. And I'm like, I feel bad for these people again now because now they're burning and they're skinned and it's all a mess.
01:16:57
Speaker
It's so bleak. It's the bleakest thing we'll see all year. I mean, it's way... Like you said, it's depraved in a way that... There's never really any infected or zombie moments in this that but I feel nearly as much of a threat from. Like, you see you see Samson, like...
01:17:16
Speaker
do a little bit of ah like kind of hunting in the beginning of the movie or, or then when those, those three people who ah the two end up at the house, they're running from zomb some, some, some infected like that parts like a little intense, but it's never, it's not, it's not like terror. Like is that, that's what the Jimmy's instill because like you said, it's for what they kind of are like, just like the droogs from clockwork orange, but like on, on,
01:17:46
Speaker
on meth you like like it's like it's like worse yeah i mean probably just because they're showing more but like it's like you know you wouldn't encounter any of those guys but like yeah it's it's it's that same kind of mentality but yeah and the jews are also supposed to be like youth out of control so i guess there's like like a of crossover element there Yeah, that's actually a very good comparison. I didn't think about that, but that's pretty perfect. Clockwork Orange. This almost feels inspired by a Clockwork Orange. I'm not sure if Alex Garland or Nia DaCosta have talked about that at all. I would i wouldn't be surprised. like
01:18:28
Speaker
They probably maybe cut a scene of Jimmy Crystal's ah drinking some milk. They thought it was too on the nose. The zombie stuff was almost... fun it's like a relief jimmy stuff to cut from the jimmies to to some infected thing or when we're hanging out with my buddy kelson samson like all right this is this is just the hangout movie of the year like before we were watching like some some torture porn shit now now let's now let's go hang out with my buds yeah my girlfriend was like this movie is misery porn
01:19:00
Speaker
And I was just like, i I can't argue with that. There's some beautiful moments, so I can't say it's through and through misery porn. But if he theres I wouldn't blame anybody for walking out of this movie. I wouldn't at all. So in that sense, Spike is still the main POV because you are feeling...
01:19:23
Speaker
the revulsion that he is, you know, like it's pretty much like, I almost threw up. He did throw up. It's like the 40 X spike experience where you're just like, oh fuck, this is what you guys are doing. no I did get sprayed with throw up when he threw up and I wasn't even seen it for the X. so I don't know what happened.
01:19:45
Speaker
I think someone accidentally turned it on. you know that's a regal thing. I was at an AMC. Yeah, that was weird. Yeah, very weird. and meant Maybe they were trying out something new. um Yeah, that seems super horrific. But, I mean, God, Nia DaCosta, not to just keep praising her the whole review, but there's just something about the way she handles horror, but too, because the the three that are in the woods when it's the pregnant lady and the dude who turns... And they're going up against the infected. Like you said, it's your fear for everybody who's going toe to toe with the infected. But at this point, you kind of know it's been years. So these people can probably hold their own. They know what to do. They're not I'm not as afraid for them as I would be like a spike or and a newcomer. But when that guy turns, it's so well shot. And he just takes off running. And you think he's going to be something significant. And then he's running towards the fucking girl, Jimmy. And it's framed in a way where it's like he's going to be a problem. And he's going to overrun and infect all this. And it's going to throw this whole shindig off. And it's filmed that way. Filmed so well.
01:21:06
Speaker
And then she goes and kills him. And it's just great. It's so well done. she does like a dodge roll. Like she's like a video game character. It's so badass. yeah The setup and just the payoff of it, it the subversion, it's it's great. This movie like works so goddamn hard for me. i I'm not going to say I didn't expect it, but man, it's just... i did I didn't expect to fucking love it as much as I i do. I'm so familiar with the first 28 days that I feel weird saying that I like this more. And it's like definitely recency bias, but I want to see this again. yeah I definitely want to see this again. i mean, I like that it's so different, like not just different from 28 days, but even...
01:21:55
Speaker
comparing the years stuff i mean obviously there's through line there was spike and then the kelson stuff but like they just feel they feel different but part of a whole at the same time if that makes sense because nita casa does a good job of like she's not doing like some of the insane boil camera movements but she is still doing like like interesting like pov filmmaking like where the camera's like on samson as he's moving or like you're on a weapon as it's being lunged. It's something like she's still, there's and still a kineticness and it still feels like a part of the same world.
01:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, I was little surprised that there was, don't think there's a single, like, one of those iPhone bullet time shots in this movie. They didn't do that in this one, Yeah, not that I needed it.
01:22:43
Speaker
Nia Dacosta is her own filmmaker, and she, this movie fits very well in the visual i with the visual identity that the last movie set up, but it does also feel like it was directed by its own person with their own sense of visual identity.
Directors' Visual Styles: Boyle vs. DaCosta
01:23:01
Speaker
And it like, it's one that works though. I, I missed the bullet time thing, but I could kind of see like, yeah, I don't know. These movies, I think again, were filmed at the same time. So maybe she just wasn't doing that or didn't know how it would look. That was maybe more experimental in the first one. Maybe it was just more of a thing Danny Boyle was interested in. I don't know why it wasn't used, but,
01:23:28
Speaker
i kind of i'm I'm not upset about it, even though I would have liked to i would have loved to have seen more. But arrow kills either. right yeah But but yeah Nia to me, almost feels like that not...
01:23:43
Speaker
Not that she's not willing to add in larger-than-life elements, but the the she keep think keeps things a little more grounded, whereas like Danny Boyle's trying to like crank things up to the max, whether it's like with like that kill cam or... Even the introduction of the Jimmies is fucking crazy at the end of of of the first 28 years later. like They're flipping around and like doing all this like basically like Power Ranger moves and stuff compared to like, they're still crazy in the Bone Temple, but they're not doing like insane acrobatics. that you know It's kind of like scaled, debt like toned down to be like, no, they're they're just like regular crazy killer people.
01:24:27
Speaker
It's almost like Danny Boyle is kind of like punk or like that British new wave punk. And Nia DaCosta is like underground hardcore.
01:24:38
Speaker
She's got the a real grit to her style, at least across the horror movies. Little Woods, I want to say, is a movie she did with Tessa Thompson that I haven't seen. i really want to check that out.
01:24:51
Speaker
ah You should check out the Marvels, dude. I think you'll have fun with that. it's one of Sam Jackson is having fun in that movie. She got him to ah to smile a little bit and deliver a laugh with that Nick Fury character.
01:25:05
Speaker
Okay. that That sounds like worth the price of a mission alone. But yeah, i I definitely want to see Little little Woods, is it? And then Hedda. Yeah. She is a compelling filmmaker to me. Like, and I liked her Candyman. Like, i was I was more impressed with the visuals and the directing of it. Like, I kind of had some issues with it felt like the script was missing. ah Like, it almost felt like there's a chunk of the that movie missing or like that they just like tore out like 20 minutes ah of of the movie. But like visually, I thought I think that movie is incredible. Yeah, I i really vibed with ah ah her Candyman.
01:25:47
Speaker
i love the work that she's doing. um Is there anything else in 28 Years Later, The Bone Temple, that you wanted to touch on, something that we may have forgotten before we wrap it up?
01:25:58
Speaker
Let's We talked about Force Ghosts. We talked about Kelson being okay and just... of being alive again the next one which will happen um yeah i feel like mean we covered it all i mean it's not like like it feels like a lot happens but also similarly it's like not that crazy of a movie in terms of being overstuffed it just it just feels like you've been through a lot after you've seen it but like
01:26:35
Speaker
Like, by the time the two halves come together, it's it's like, okay, well, they they were pretty contained. And it's not it's not like that this this train was going off the rails or anything. Yeah.
01:26:48
Speaker
Like, not I never, of course, expected like that Spike was going to like break bad or whatever and like you know give in to the bloodlust of the Jimmies. But...
01:26:59
Speaker
do you think he'll be changed by this? Like that he'll be like more jaded and cynical. Like, like, like, will he even be open to the idea of trusting Jim? You know, like, will he just like have like major trust issues now of like, are every, is everyone out here besides Kelson a fucking psycho?
01:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is going to be a big growing experience for a Spike. And we're going to see, kind of like I said, I think there's going to be a ripple effect that we're going to see happen from this movie.
Anticipation for Next Film in Series
01:27:31
Speaker
My big question is who's going to be the main focus of the third one? Are we going to find out that this isn't a Spike trilogy, that we're hopping around for each movie? Is Killian going to be more of a POV? I hope it's just Spike and Killian informs his arc. Jim can still be important, but like let's let's keep it like in terms of like if this is a legacy sequel, that the next new generation should should be the focus.
01:28:02
Speaker
Yeah. I do want to quickly talk about some details from the last, like, fourth of the movie. Oh, sure. I'd say that we haven't gotten too into.
01:28:13
Speaker
Jimmy and Kelsen, their official meeting, and them spotting Kelsen. So... Jimmy's group thinks that Kelson is old Nick, which is Satan, and Jimmy says that Satan is his dad. How'd you feel about that, learning that the British called the devil old Nick?
Cultural References: 'Old Nick'
01:28:35
Speaker
Did you take offense to that? I've said it before on a bunch of other podcasts. When a movie has a character named Nick, they fucking say the words Nick a bunch, and this seems to be the case for this movie, but...
01:28:51
Speaker
I didn't know what they were saying for a little while. It took me a little bit to pick up on like, oh, old Nick is Satan. I that wasn't super clear immediately. i didn't catch it until like right before they go to Kelson kind of like I kept they kept saying old Nick. i was like, is that just like their name for God or something? Like, well, kind of, I guess. Their accents are a little hard to kind of understand at times, too. So I think maybe they might have cleared it up earlier. But yeah when when he is looking through the binoculars at Kelson in my head, I'm like,
01:29:28
Speaker
we're going to get a moment where he goes up to Kelsey and is like, hey, so here's the thing, guy. I kind of lied all these people. And while we do get an awesome like philosophical, ah theological conversation about Satanism and atheism, something like Satanism and being an atheist, something you don't really get that much. It's not just a debate that happens.
01:29:57
Speaker
It was... so great. I loved living in that moment. These two characters, it almost felt like fucking Doctor Doom and Captain America meeting or something. These two people from vastly different worlds and when Jimmy walks into the Bone Temple, my girlfriend was like, I hope this scares him. And I was like, I think it does. yeah And i i I like that he had a respect for Kelson even though he does threaten him at the end of their interaction after being like,
01:30:28
Speaker
Yeah, can... ah So here's the thing. After doing the thing that I thought he was going to do... Which is funny. It's almost like a sitcom scenario of like, i lied to my friends. Can you cover for me? Yeah, I love that they go there, and Kelson does it, and he...
01:30:47
Speaker
He gives it his all. He goes theatrical. And at a certain point I was thinking, OK, I'm wondering if this is going to lose me a little bit. I wonder if this is going to lose them more so. I thought maybe he was going too big and they would like see through it or something. i was yeah worried about that.
01:31:04
Speaker
But they end up eating it up and he's like, like basically being Satan and being like everybody kneel. And it's such a like, again, in the hands of a lesser filmmaker, this could have been ridiculous, but it worked for me. It worked for, I think, everybody in my audience. My audience was loving this shit, especially the part where he gives the like the decrees that Jimmy told him to say. But then when he decides to add another thing at the end that he needs to sacrifice and Jimmy's like, none no, and no, no, no. Like just the way that the that he was playing that that scene, like that was cracking up my audience. Yeah, because I was like, is Kelson enabling and perpetuating this villain for our third movie? Is he going to go after the island? He's just going to make it his mission to skin everybody. And i was like, this is so fucked up. And it got so dark because I started thinking, this is so fucked up. How many times this guy has just murdered people? Again, for what?
01:32:11
Speaker
it like that's the hardest thing to s swallow where it's like for what all for nothing yeah it's so stupid like ah in a way that like i enjoy in my movies right like my it's just a character motivation where i'm like oh my god Kill this guy. Kill him. And when Kelson flips the script on him after seeing Spike, I was like, God, this couldn't have happened soon enough. People were ready to cheer when they're like, oh, they're going to crucify Yes.
01:32:49
Speaker
Yeah. ah Everybody. And same thing for my audience. I had it was the same vibe where I felt like people were like, yes, kill this fucking monster. It's like a Morton Joe dying or but like worse. He's such a awful fucking villain. I can't think of anybody like many other villains where you're so satisfied at the thought of their death.
01:33:13
Speaker
Yeah. Joffrey, maybe in Game of Thrones. I don't know who. yeah mate Yeah, I guess. But yeah, because it's like there's nothing redeeming about about Jimmy k Crystals. Like there's a and it's already seeded with the one ah girl, Kelly, that like she, you know, is planning to usurp him because I like she she says to Spike, like, I don't even think he's really Nick's son. but that's So it's like interesting to have these like different tiers of belief where it's like, she's still a Satanist, but she thinks that he's bullshitting them about his like divine or unholy right to rule. And so she wants to take him out. But then...
01:33:55
Speaker
So what is that going to do of collapsing her whole belief system of like, oh no, that was all bullshit. So that'll be interesting to see in the next one. No, it will be. And I do just like how matter of fact that realization is. And I got to say this whole time, I'm worried that Sam's, I'm worried for Samson. I'm thinking about him. He's in the back of my mind the entire time the scene has happened because I don't want him to come back and get got.
01:34:21
Speaker
But, uh, Yeah, they crucify Jimmy, St. st Paul, St. Peter, one of the saints. I think Peter was the one upside down, yeah.
01:34:33
Speaker
And one of the apostles crucified upside down. Yeah, they crucify him in that way. I don't know if there was any link to that they were trying to make. I think it was just the satanic symbolism, the inverted cross.
01:34:45
Speaker
They were trying to flip it on its head. It seems bad either way you get crucified because it's like it's something to do with like the your lungs like are or like fill up or something like like you you can't you you stop being able to breathe. Yeah, I think that's correct. And you love to see it. You love to see it happen to him.
01:35:09
Speaker
It's just great. I was almost upset when ah it looked looked like an infected was grabbing him. I was like, no, leave him up there. Let him suffer. You know, like, I don't want him getting, like, you know, ripped apart quickly or getting a quick death. I'm like, let him... You can eat him after he, you know, chokes to death or something. Yeah. Even though I did appreciate those quick zombie jump scares. That's a thing that was from 28 days, 28 weeks that they've managed to hold on to. Yeah, they got you. They got my girlfriend every time. They got me too. It like really just jolts you awake and brings you into the movie if you're sucked out for a second. Because it's like first person from his POV. While he's upside down in the cross and he's like looking around. and at first i was like, so I was like, oh, okay. I, I, cause I knew it was going to happen, but it it still got me.
01:36:04
Speaker
Yeah, one of the most effective jump scare endings, I think, even though it's not really like a jump scare ending in the way that we had talked about on Anne and in the Apocalypse.
Horror Elements: Jump Scares and Biblical Parallels
01:36:13
Speaker
Right. It's along those lines, but it really works. ah It would be, I guess, considered a jump scare ending if these movies didn't end with a Horizon-style preview of what's going to happen in the next movie.
01:36:29
Speaker
ah Then it would have just been like the ending of Sinister or something where it's like, oh, the ghoul. And yeah, aside from that last like fourth with Kelsen, the other thing I really loved is Samson on the train getting flashbacks from the past. I love that. I don't have a ticket.
01:36:48
Speaker
Yeah, he's ah it's so great. And then he's surrounded by the infected and has to fight him off, comes out all bloody. I listened to a YouTube reviewer last night talking about it, and they're like, he fights them off without even breaking a sweat. It looked pretty hard.
01:37:04
Speaker
Yeah, he gets bit. Yeah, he was there for a while. It's like a different time of day when he comes out of that thing. He has an advantage because he is, like, smarter and larger, but it's still, like, taxing you know ah he's not invincible yeah those are the last things I kind of wanted to touch on though ah ah you got any final thoughts or any scenes you want to go back to before we wrap this up I feel like we've we've we've hit on all of them it's just yeah I and just wonder what Samson's life is like without his best bud I mean no Kelson so um yeah what does what does so where does Samson go from here
01:37:45
Speaker
It would be interesting to see how they work that into because there is that whole.
Speculation on Future Plot and Characters
01:37:51
Speaker
When you have a zombie baby or, ah you know, an infected person give birth in a movie, you're like, well, this is going to matter. But then in the first movie, it's like it's just a normal baby. And they take her back to the island. in fact did They just take her back to the island. I mean, they kill the mom because she's about to attack. But then there's nothing wrong with the baby. But.
01:38:12
Speaker
Is Samson still going to, like, want to find the baby? and even though he can talk, he still can't get close to that island because they'll be like, it's a fucking alpha, and and start opening fire on him. So, like, how how do they...
01:38:28
Speaker
reconcile that. I wouldn't be surprised nor upset if that baby didn't carry any weight besides it being a beautiful moment when Samson gets reunited with the baby.
01:38:43
Speaker
oh i don't need yeah I don't need the baby to be special. I just mean like, yeah, how are they going to navigate that of like how can he even have access to it since he like will not be let on that island? So it's like, is is Spike going to like...
01:38:58
Speaker
snatch the baby for him or something, or like, like he reunites with s Spike, and then Spike is like, all right, I'll get your son. No, I've got the same questions, and these movies have really... it almost feels episodic, in a way, the fact that there's still things that were left open from the first movie that haven't been resolved. that i I really like what has been set up here and I can't wait for 28 years later, or three, whatever the hell that's going to be called. and they're just And there's storylines that aren't being done in any other zombie things. Like just like break down like what we were saying of like, yeah, how is our main character going to steal the baby for that zombie guy and get it back to him? You know, like that's not something that happens in these movies. Yeah. Yeah, so i i I have no idea what they're going to do with this third one. i have no idea what they're going to do with Killian or Samson, what threads they're going to choose to, what needles they're going to choose to thread, whatever the fucking phrase is Yeah. But...
Zombie Genre Innovations
01:40:05
Speaker
I loved this movie. It seems like you were mostly positive on this movie. I really, really liked it. Yeah. I mean, I still like, uh, the first one better, but yeah, I'm, I'm, I want to see it again. Like I, I just love this, this franchise. I would,
01:40:26
Speaker
you know Not not not to to dig on weeks, I like i've put put all of these like far above. It's just with weeks, it's the thing that you said where like after a certain point, they kind of just jettison the interesting, like unique to 28 years later your universe thing. And it's like, we're just going to do a zombie outbreak thing. And like that, that's where that, that movie loses me. where Whereas these, these new movies to definitely keep their eye on like, what can we do that's unique to this world and to these characters? Yeah, I get that. When it comes to a conventional zombie movie, 28 Weeks, I think, does deliver for me. it's fun. It's like a fun zombie action movie, yeah.
01:41:13
Speaker
And it gets you in and out. I think it's under an hour 30. It respects your time, which I appreciate. Yeah. So, you know, the it's not a perfect movie.
01:41:25
Speaker
It's definitely a movie that I like. I'm pretty sure I like more than other people because it was like the first horror movie I ever saw. And the first horror movie I saw in the, uh, It might not be the first horror movie I ever saw, but the first one where I saw was locked in in a dark room and terrified out of my goddamn mind. And I feel like whatever movie that ends up being for you, you kind of by default are just like, well, no, it's, you know what I mean? it kind of just ends up having important You're bonded to it for forever. yeah, get what you're saying. But that people do like Leeks. I think like that's not like, it so Some people even put it over days. Like I've i've heard that opinion. Like I've not just like one person throw that out there. I think it's been reclaimed in the past couple years, but it was one where when I got into movies seriously, there were movies that I grew up from like the later parts of grade school that I loved that I found out people shit on a bit. 28 Weeks Later was one where I was like surprised. Oh, people don't like that. And then Disturbia, the Shia LaBeouf teenage rear window movie. That movie's all right. I don't have anything against Disturbia. And then the Simpsons movie was another one where i was like, well, people don't like this. What? I think that just is because...
01:42:50
Speaker
turning on the Simpsons of the series going on for so long. And that just reflects back on the movie because of when it came out where the show went after that. Because the movie itself is fine. There's some funny bits in it. Yeah, it's got some good jokes. Tom Hanks is in Yeah, the best bit, one that I think about all the time is the SOP sign. That's something weird about that SOP sign.
01:43:18
Speaker
10 out of 10 bit. I'm almost laughing now. Or when he's caught between a rock and a hard place and he keeps getting seen from side to side. Or there's when he's flipping through the Bible and he's like, there's no answers in this book.
01:43:35
Speaker
It's great. i Maybe I'll throw in the Simpsons movie tonight while I'm waiting for my girlfriend to get here. I definitely want to see the Bone Temple tomorrow. I think I got some free time, some mal alone time ah while my girlfriend's out living her life. Everyone's vacationing at the Bone Temple. It's a great place to go. Bring your kids. it's I'm going to go back. I'm going to check myself. I should have checked myself in for two-night stay, but I didn't.
01:44:00
Speaker
I got to go back. Got to go
Thematic Analysis: Evil and Morality
01:44:02
Speaker
back. Hey guys, it's Nick. Just popping in here real quick to say something I forgot to bring up in the episode about the movie and its themes and the nature of evil.
01:44:11
Speaker
Danny Boyle had said in an interview that 28 years later was about the nature of family and the Bone Temple is about the nature of evil. A big focus of the movie, as we've discussed in this episode, is one's belief system and this debate between an atheist and a Satanist.
01:44:26
Speaker
The movie is delivering a message of man is the real evil, and while that's ah a cliche of zombie movies, I like the approach this movie is taking, which is evil is not something that exists in nature.
01:44:40
Speaker
Religion is the thing that teaches us the difference between good and evil, but the movie exists in a world of science and nature, not spirituality. We determine where the line between good and evil lies, evil is a choice, and Jimmy has made the choice to lean evil, commit horrific acts, all with his own justification.
01:44:59
Speaker
Then we go to Samson, someone who we've seen do horrific things while infected. But the infection is an evil, and the violence is a reaction to the psychosis caused by the infection.
01:45:09
Speaker
And when the psychosis is treated, there's no more horrific acts. Samson was never evil, or choosing to commit evil acts. A lion doesn't kill a gazelle because it's evil. Evil does not exist in nature.
01:45:22
Speaker
The nature of evil is humanity. I just really like the way the movie presents and makes this point and wanted to make sure I said this in the episode. Thanks for entertaining my nonsense. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
01:45:34
Speaker
Anyway, Doug, thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. I love i love talking bone temples, zombies, all the above. yeah ah Do you got any plugs or any... Where can the people find more of your work?
01:45:49
Speaker
ah Well, of on the These Guys Got Juice feed, we've ah closed out the year with like a lot of variety. You mentioned the the Pluribus episodes we did. Did an episode on... like ah the new Knives Out. There was a Chair Company episode and then we also did our our our like top 10 2025. I almost said 2024.
01:46:13
Speaker
time Time is fucked up. It's also a top 12. Yeah, it became it became a top 12 because we just couldn't let go of any of our our favorites and Yeah, so check that on the These Guys Got Juice feed. um You can follow me on Twitter at the Doug Files. And then on my letterbox, ah I'm the Doug or not.
01:46:35
Speaker
So yeah, that's me. Hell yeah. And guys, make sure to rate and review this podcast five stars. Go to Apple Podcasts and leave a
Podcast Schedule and Future Plans
01:46:43
Speaker
review. If you don't mind, tell a friend.
01:46:46
Speaker
You can go follow us on Instagram at morbidcuriosities underscore pod. You can send us an email with any questions, comments, concerns or if you want to inquire about being a guest on the podcast email us at morbidcuriosities10 at gmail.com and uh i know i keep saying rec four is coming i'm promised this isn't a bit ah just trying to get a good time to record that you heard earlier i've had some medical stuff going on It's been a very strange start to the year, a very odd transition period for the podcast.
01:47:23
Speaker
But Wreck 4 is going to get there. i just want to make sure it's not a half-hearted episode and it is something worth listening to. So don't worry. Good things come to those who wait. Yeah. And then I got another season I'm working on that I'll let you guys know in a later episode as I get closer to getting it set up. It's going to be something a little less traditional than what we've done. An idea that may have been floated before on the podcast. so I look forward to when that can be set up.
01:47:56
Speaker
And of course, Scream 7, we're going to be reviewing that. And... Rocia might be coming back for basically whatever new random horror movie we see together. We didn't get to review The Plague because she really didn't want to talk about that, but we talked about Primate.
01:48:12
Speaker
Go check that one out. um It's a fun episode. I need to see that. i i share an opinion where i'm like doug's gonna agree with this when he watches this movie six months from now when it's on streaming and then potentially listens to this episode i might go see it in theaters once i learned that it was a guy in a suit and not a cg monkey i was like yeah you got my money hi a guy in a suit shout out to him but uh
01:48:44
Speaker
Planet the Apes movies need to go back to guys in suits. Dude, yeah that's the opinion I share on the episode. Oh, shit. It's funny that you said Rosie is like, no, I don't agree. and I was like, Doug would agree. ah He'll agree with me. The suit, they look, the tech is good now. Like that that monkey, just from the previews, like it looks really good. yeah ah man. Well, i'm I'm excited to hear your thoughts on fucking Primate. You know, if you want to maybe do a bonus episode, come on and share your thoughts 20 minutes on Primate real quick. We can maybe throw that together or talk about it on another appearance.
01:49:27
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised if you're back for Scream 7. Wink wink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um I'll definitely check it out. Yeah, thanks for coming back, Doug. Thanks for having me. Always love to have you on. Yeah, love coming on. We've been Morbid Curiosities.
01:49:43
Speaker
Love whore. Love, love, love yapping about whore.