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Frankenstein (2025)
79 Plays14 days ago
Join Nicholas and Mercedes as they shake up their schedule a bit to cover Guillermo del Toro's adaptation of Mary Shelly's 1818 novel, Frankenstein! Now in theaters, on Netflix THIS FRIDAY! They discuss the story and themes of the movie in as much detail as they are able to give, relating the themes, and del Toro's life experiences, to their own lives. This is a special episode!
And don't worry, next week is the movie one of you guys selected for us to cover!
Remember to follow us on Instagram @morbid_curiosities_pod
Email us at morbidcuriosities10@gmail.com with comments/questions/concerns/recommendations
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts & Podcast Theme
00:00:57
Speaker
you
00:01:11
Speaker
What's up, guys? We're Morbid Curiosities, your favorite horror movie podcast, and we're alive! We're alive And we're back with another episode. I'm one of your hosts, Nicholas Ewers, and with me is the lightweight champion of the world, the morbid mistress of mayhem herself,
00:01:29
Speaker
Mercedes Martinez. I love the effort, man. You guys didn't see it, but Nick full on went into character. I had to. Body movement and everything. Gotta love it. You gotta love his dedication to the podcast here. Gotta appreciate this, man. ah Hopefully it sounded good, too. Yeah, I was really nervous, but I got through it. One take for real this time. I'm actually not lying.
00:01:54
Speaker
Got it in one take. All you got to do is just add like thunder sound effects in the background. That's a good idea. That'll intensify it.
00:02:05
Speaker
I'm going to probably do that. But the special intro means, I mean, you guys heard it on our
New Release Coverage: Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein
00:02:11
Speaker
commentary. We fucking caved. We did it. We're covering a new movie today. It wasn't planned.
00:02:18
Speaker
And, you know, you guys got it for when it drops on Netflix. We're covering Frankenstein from Guillermo del Toro. I mean, Mercedes. Are you excited for this one?
00:02:31
Speaker
I am fucking hyped for this one. And I owe it to you because I actually forgot about the fact that this film was coming out. And you when you said you were going to go see it, I was like, fuck, now I kind of want to go see it And then once you were talking about how excited you were about it, I'm like, yep, we're going have to cover it now.
00:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, so right now it's in super limited release. When I had given you the days that it was in theaters, it was supposed to be like today, actually. Today was supposed to be the last day it was going to be playing in theaters.
00:03:08
Speaker
And now it looks like it's playing until Monday. So if you're listening to this right now, you might be able to go see it tonight. And I think that might be your last chance of seeing it in theaters until it hits Netflix this Friday.
00:03:24
Speaker
So, I mean, if you get a chance, i would highly recommend seeing this thing in a theater. I'm a little worried that it might be too long to watch at home for some people.
00:03:37
Speaker
i The theater was like perfect. I wasn't looking at my phone. I was so locked into this thing. So, I mean, not to just jump right into the movie talk right away. I don't know if you had any questions.
00:03:50
Speaker
preamble or anything on the agenda you wanted to touch on, but go see this in theaters, guys. I don't know. I'm ready to get right into I'm ready to get this ship sailing. My initial thoughts on this movie?
Initial Impressions & Film Analysis
00:04:02
Speaker
I really adore this movie, I'd say. I walked out feeling mostly positive. It's this like beautiful gothic romance scene And it's about like fatherhood and being a son. i don't want to spoil too much. I mean, if you know the story already, if you've seen anything Frankenstein related, you kind of know those are reoccurring themes in a lot of things Frankenstein things.
00:04:31
Speaker
I'll say right off top, this is pretty dedicated to the Mary Shelley 1818 novel. I haven't read the novel, but just from everything that I've read surrounding the movie, it's a pretty faithful adaptation with del Toro's own spin on it.
00:04:48
Speaker
and know I'm digressing. I, yeah, thought this movie was great. I fell in love with it from the very beginning. This movie opens with a pretty big bang Then after that, it just is like, okay, let me just let me just sit you down and tell you a yarn. And I immediately was sucked in. There's some parts that interested me more than others.
00:05:12
Speaker
There's some characters I think are way more interesting than other characters. But overall, what Del Toro establishes here is right in line with the best of the work I've seen from him.
00:05:27
Speaker
And it's a movie that I've thought about every day since I've seen it. I think about the ways that it relates to me personally, and I think about just the scope and the vision and the imagination behind it and the world he created and i how I want to go back. how I wish I could see this in a theater again or ah hopefully Criterion gives this a good release treatment like they did Pinocchio and saves this thing from Netflix and I get a good behind the scenes so I can really live in this thing but yeah i thought this thing was magical and right now it's one of my favorite movies of the year I again adore this movie
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah, I am right there with you. So i really, really enjoyed this film. i was a little hesitant when I was walking into the theater. i feel like I say hesitant a lot. of But yeah, I was hesitant just because i didn't want to fall asleep in the event that it started to drag a little bit, especially because this movie film is very long it's like two and a half hours because I could fall asleep in like an hour and a half film half the time I was worried that I was possibly gonna fall asleep because I saw it listeners will have heard on our commentary I saw it right when we got done recording I get pretty tired when we record I got out of the movie at like 10 30 but I wasn't even close to nodding off during this thing
00:06:59
Speaker
Yeah, same. I really thought I was because there have been plenty of films that I was really psyched to see and I still fell asleep just because of how exhausted from the day I was.
00:07:11
Speaker
But this one actually kept my attention, loved the first act of this film and It really just like shows you, okay, this is where we're gonna this is the direction we're taking.
00:07:24
Speaker
and Then like it kind of calms down a little bit and you're like, all right, you're in a different direction. But it stays like steady as like the rest of the movie goes on.
00:07:36
Speaker
a lot of different like parts came up that I was not anticipating, I'm not really familiar with the world of Frankenstein, so I was i was still excited to see this, and I'm very happy that you recommended it it and suggested me to check it out.
00:07:55
Speaker
It was such a good film.
Del Toro's Cinematic Legacy
00:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you dig it. i thought i don't know how big of a Del Toro fan you were, but he struck me as someone that you enjoy or you might enjoy the movies of. What is your relationship to Del Toro, actually?
00:08:11
Speaker
So i have actually only seen Pan's Labyrinth and The Shape of Water. i really enjoy Pan's Labyrinth. i I love watching it. It is a little, it's obviously a little sad. um But I remember i had to ah pick a movie for one of my Spanish courses when I was in school. And that was an option. And I hadn't seen it yet. So I was like, well, this is perfect because I know a lot of other people have watched it.
00:08:41
Speaker
And when I watched it, I'm like, where the fuck have I been that I have not seen this film? Yeah, that one really, really loved. why I don't know why i couldn't really get into The Shape of Water. Maybe it was the creature in that one that kind of made me feel uneasy. But I kind of want to give it another try because I hear people actually do like it. But yeah, so once I saw that he was going to be releasing this film, I was pretty intrigued on it. So definitely dig it.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, The Shape of Water won Best Picture, Best Director, Best Score, and it won a fourth Oscar. that was That was the movie he got a lot of his accolades for, was The Shape of Water.
00:09:28
Speaker
I love The Shape of Water. That's a movie that i I think I saw twice in theaters. I've seen it a bunch of times. I talked about it a couple weeks ago. It was one of the movies I bought from the Criterion Closet.
00:09:40
Speaker
I think it's absolutely beautiful. Sally Hawkins won my heart with her performance in that movie. I think she should have won the Oscar for that instead of Frances McDormand winning her second Oscar. She is at least two at this point.
00:09:55
Speaker
But yeah, I'm like a huge, I will like go to the mat for The Shape of Water. And I know it's not for everybody, but I think it's an incredible incredibly beautiful movie in almost every way, shape, or form. Visually, sonically, from ah writing perspective, ah the villain is top tier.
00:10:17
Speaker
The heroes are characters you love. And he's bringing a lot of his shape of water to Frankenstein. And I don't know if it's really going to vibe with a lot of people in the way that it vibes with me and vibes with you.
00:10:34
Speaker
You know what I mean? i I don't know. Like, I don't, again, I'm not the biggest fan of Frankenstein. So I don't know how everyone else is going to perceive this. But I feel like if they have um enjoyed previous films by Del Toro, they'll love this.
00:10:54
Speaker
I think this is going to be a mostly well-received movie that is going to have people who maybe are a fan of Del Toro, maybe aren't, who are a fan of Frankenstein. I think people are totally... This movie is going to go over some people's heads, and they're probably going to be checked out while watching it at home.
00:11:15
Speaker
And that's kind of unfortunate. I'm worried that this might not keep everybody's attention when they have people around or they check like they have the option to check their phone or something
Home Viewing vs Theater Experience
00:11:27
Speaker
like that.
00:11:28
Speaker
Yeah, that that's a ah good point because I know damn well if I watched this like just on Netflix, I would have fallen asleep and probably would have been on my phone a lot too just because I get antsy whenever I'm watching TV.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah, a big regret that I have is not seeing Nightmare Alley in theaters. That's one that I've thrown on a bunch. I start to click with it, and then something at home kind of pulls me away from it, or I get distracted, or I start playing on my phone a little bit, and I never give that movie the service that I really want to because Bradley Cooper's in it and Tony Collette's in it and William Dafoe's in it.
00:12:14
Speaker
Rooney Mara, i just it's a great cast, and it just the concept seems awesome. It's another remake of his. I mean, I don't know. The only movie I haven't really loved from Del Toro is Pacific Rim.
00:12:29
Speaker
I haven't seen like Kronos or his Hellboy movies or Mimic. But Pacific Rim, I wasn't crazy on. And Pan's Labyrinth, I saw that when I was in high school. And it was one of the first live action foreign films I had ever seen.
00:12:45
Speaker
I feel like I wasn't ready for it. So I need to just rewatch that as ah more of a film fan than somebody who was like, oh, this is going to be crazy horror, i you know?
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah, for that one too, I think that was another reason why i hadn't watched Pan's Labyrinth as quickly as everyone else had because i think I might have tried to watch it once and then saw that it was a foreign film and that I have to be in a good mindset, like to watch and actually focus on a film in a different language. Like, yeah, I was able to understand a lot of the dialogue in there, but still I needed to, I needed it to be a day where I really could focus. And, you know, fortunately when I was at school and had to cover a paper on it, you know, that did
00:13:40
Speaker
give me that window of opportunity to focus on it, but also enjoy it too. Yeah, you got to like actually analyze it as your first time watching it. You weren't just, you were approaching it with an academic mind, and I can appreciate that.
Spoiler Discussion: Emotional Themes & Ending
00:13:56
Speaker
I think my first foreign language film actually might have been Wreck, which, you know, a movie we're never going to cover, actually. Absolutely not.
00:14:07
Speaker
But I guess, are you ready to hop into spoilers for Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein or Frankenstein Parenthetical 2025? End Parenthetical?
00:14:19
Speaker
Yes, sir. Let's jump right in. Okay. So, I mean, where should we start with this one? Is there a performance you want to shout out? Any particular scene you want to kick us off with?
00:14:31
Speaker
Your initial reaction with that intro? Yeah. Yeah, i can start with the intro. I had just ran an errand before I watched this film, so I was not focused at all, and I was trying so hard to not necessarily calm myself but down, but just kind of wind down a little bit so I could focus on the film.
00:14:53
Speaker
So, yeah, once ah you see the beginning, you know, you see the ship, it's frozen in the middle of the farthest north area in the world, whatever they said.
00:15:05
Speaker
i guess the the men on the ship, they were kind of losing hope, like they weren't going to get out of that, you know, like stranded area that they're in. Yeah, the ship, like did it crash into some type of glacier or something? i actually walked into the movie a little late, so I didn't catch what happened with the ship.
00:15:27
Speaker
Yeah, i they were already stuck, so I'm assuming they had crashed into some ice already, and they just couldn't get themselves out of that spot. That's crazy. crazy that that I mean I guess that's a thing that probably happened like what do you just assume you're going to die how does your ship get out of that I don't know if there's a realistic way you get your ship out of there except you by tugging it if another ship just happens to stumble across you they end up coming across Oscar Isaac's ah character, who does play Victor Frankenstein. The great Oscar Isaac.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, he they bring him on board. They're trying to make sure he's okay. They do see that he has a prosthetic leg, and you know he's in like, yeah Kind of like a state of panic, like, no, like, ah he's after me. If you guys see him, you have to, like, let me off the ship. And then we're introduced to this creature feature, if you will.
00:16:32
Speaker
So this is about where I walked in. i just walked in There was carnage happening. Yeah, the creature, as he's dubbed in this movie, played by Jacob Elordi, in this wild action sequence of him just fucking up all of these dudes on the ship. I see him, like, this dude gets, like, bent over or something. He's just... I mean, he's taken hits, too.
00:16:56
Speaker
You hear Jacob Elordi's aggressive, like... grame You don't hear his speaking voice and at this point, but and you don't really get a clear look at him. You kind of want to look at him, but it's just it's awesome.
00:17:13
Speaker
It's such a good battle sequence. i I don't know how much CGI is in this opening. It looks like there might have been a good amount. It kind of reminded me of Ridley Scott's Napoleon opens with a pretty wild action sequence that is pretty CGI heavy.
00:17:33
Speaker
So I was a little turned off by that. I know this is Netflix. They're throwing millions at this thing to get it made, which credit to them.
00:17:43
Speaker
ah From what I heard, this movie probably wouldn't have gotten made at the level that it did without Netflix being behind it. So there's pros and cons to them being a thing. But come on, Netflix. like you can't Maybe it was all pre-viz and easier to have some CGI, but it's like...
00:18:01
Speaker
There could have been a bit more but practicality to the intro, but that aside, I think it's so great, so imaginative. You just to open this movie with a fucking bang, I think.
00:18:14
Speaker
I can't even remember how half these people got killed, but it was it was amusing seeing it. I don't know if I'm jumping too far ahead, but there's a part where he's like tossed off the boat or whatever, and he's like actually rocking the boat or ship, whatever.
00:18:31
Speaker
and It's like, damn, this motherfucker is that strong. He's able to move this entire ship. That was rough to see, but awesome to see. Yeah, it's a great display of this character's strengths. You really get to see just how formidable he is.
00:18:50
Speaker
And I will say for the rest of the movie, you don't get a whole lot of it. There's some good action here and there, but this is really the moment where you get the best of it, for better or for worse.
00:19:05
Speaker
i I'd like to rewatch it to see how it all lands on me this time around, or a second time around, because I was so wrapped in. i wonder if I'm going to want another big action sequence, like a third one in this movie, if I see it again. But...
00:19:24
Speaker
that That aside, there's so much spectacle. There's so much eye candy. ah Without jumping too far ahead, there's a point where there's a castle burning in this movie. And I was like, that's just so beautiful. It reminds me of movie that I didn't finish.
00:19:40
Speaker
Nightmare Alley, Bradley Cooper's walking away from a burning building. It's like yes, Del Toro, just keep lighting shit on fire, even though i'm pretty sure it's all CGI structures that are burning. He's really good with that burning building imagery.
00:19:54
Speaker
They start going into um Victor Frankenstein's childhood. It shows like he's in like a wealthy family. I think his dad was baron.
00:20:08
Speaker
and they They're already coming out with like a good-ass cast. Carl Stantz. Yeah, half the time that I am watching a new film, unless some I've seen the trailer a bunch of times, I won't know who is in it or i don't remember who's in it by the time I'm watching it.
00:20:29
Speaker
So yeah, once I saw him, i was like, crap, he's going to be an asshole in here. He was an asshole in Game of Thrones. I'm not expecting him to be a good guy in here. So sure enough, this...
00:20:43
Speaker
He's an asshole in here. You see he's um he takes his title very seriously. He's a man of power. He is very strict with ah Victor when he's trying to teach him about, i think, anatomy.
00:20:57
Speaker
And you see he does get pretty abusive with him if Victor doesn't answer questions correctly. There was like a you know a cute part where I think Victor and his mom, they were...
00:21:11
Speaker
They were dancing or something, but you you see that they have like a more softer, tender relationship with each other, as they should. His mom played by ah Mia Goth, actually.
00:21:25
Speaker
That was her, too? Yes. A little spoiler, this movie, ah she's playing two roles. Yes. Really? Crap, now I really do want to see it again. I didn' yeah i could not see that.
00:21:38
Speaker
Claire Frankenstein. i did It took me a minute to pick up on it, but I was like, oh, Mia Goth is just his mom? I was like, okay. I thought she would have a bigger role. Everyone was praising her in this movie. Every review I read was Mia Goth. She's awesome every moment she's on screen.
00:21:55
Speaker
was like, that's weird. She's just the mom. But yeah, I was kind of surprised later on to see her again. Oh, shit. Yeah, good take on that. Yeah, you see that she is pregnant, and there's a part where her and Victor, they're playing like cards or some game, and the dad, he's getting ready to leave again,
00:22:16
Speaker
And you see him just stare at them. And then he starts to just make his exit. And it's like, all right, you you see how how no affection, actually, this man shows his family.
00:22:31
Speaker
And um you know his mom starts going into labor. The dad and all his men, they end up taking her away that part it's like okay she is like coughing up blood or whatever you know just her screaming for victor and them not letting him follow i was like damn she's about to die where else are we going with this this shit i don't need to be crying right now she dies giving birth to his brother william i think i liked this victor stuff i actually so i don't know about you did you watch a trailer before going into this
00:23:07
Speaker
I think I watched it once and I did not remember anything. Yeah, I didn't watch a trailer going into this. The only thing I knew is Oscar Isaac, Jacob Elordi, Mia Goth, and Guillermo del Toro. Everybody else who popped up on the screen, it was the same as you, where was like, oh shit, Christoph Waltz is in this fucking thing?
00:23:30
Speaker
That's cool. He's kind of just doing the Christoph Waltz thing and isn't that interesting. But it's cool that he's in this. He's my least favorite part of this movie, I think. As in every movie. You don't like Christoph Waltz?
00:23:43
Speaker
No, no, I do. And i have to like it. I like him as an actor because he understands the assignment. And I, I'm trying to, like, I had a little epiphany today. I'm trying not to talk shit about actors themselves, just their work that they bring on. So anything I've said in the past before, I apologize. Any derogatory thing I said, but.
00:24:08
Speaker
hear that case too? Yeah. Oh my God. Stop bringing that up. She apologizes. but Now it's your turn. Forgive Go on your podcast and forgive her.
00:24:21
Speaker
Oh, my God. but No, it's like it's funny because it was because I was actually listening to that podcast you sent me, What Went Wrong? And i was listening to the episode on Twilight and they were saying how um they're like, we love Anna Kendrick, but we don't love how she just shit on all these films.
00:24:46
Speaker
And I was like, damn, really? And it's funny because I was such a lame for Twilight. And I didn't watch half of the interviews or anything, any type of like press for them.
00:24:59
Speaker
So I didn't know that she didn't like it. She was like, kind of like annoyed with, you know, the place that they had to um film in Oregon, the weather, obviously, and a bunch of other stuff. But I was like, damn, I probably sound like a bitch every episode that we're on because I talk shit about people. So I'm sorry, you need to edit out all of that. So no one hears it anymore because the internet remembers everything. Well, luckily, that's not a criticism anyone's thrown out at you. Thank
00:25:38
Speaker
yeah ah Hopefully, it may just be something that years you think you come across that way, but nobody else is. They're probably all laughing, and they get that you don't mean it. Yeah, um but it it was funny, because that even got me to... like think about this film differently too but christopher waltz like man christoph waltz oh christoph waltz sorry um see i don't know him that well i only know him from inglorious bastards i know he was in oh yeah yeah but the first movie i saw him in was inglorious bastards and i fucking hated him yeah but once he came on the film here i was like
00:26:21
Speaker
who the hell is that? Like, I could not, I could not pick him out. And it was bothering me so much because I'm like, oh my God, he his, his character, whoever it is it's going to come up at the worst possible time. And then I was like, wait, nevermind. It's that guy, Landa or whatever his name is from Inglourious Bastards. I'm like, great. Is he going to be an asshole in here too?
00:26:45
Speaker
We'll see. ah Don't forget the creme or whatever. Wait for the creme. Yeah. Funniest thing too is um my brother and I were talking about our dad because he was watching that one day, but then he like paused it and went to the store and my brother was like, where are you going? He's like, I want to go get a pie because of that scene.
00:27:12
Speaker
It looked good. It looked good. You know, Christoph Waltz makes you want some Clem. And again, a man eating it and not a woman. because Well, the the female in there, she did take a bite, but she looked very uncomfortable in that scene. Yeah, that's a great villainous performance. that ah I mean, he's not really a villain in this, but he's not bringing that level of this. He's just kind of showing up and Yeah, I'm Christoph Waltz in a Frankenstein movie this time. And I got syphilis too, you find out.
00:27:47
Speaker
but That joke you you get, you're with Venus one night and Mercury for a lifetime or something. That made me crack up when he said that.
00:27:58
Speaker
Good bit. Good of the century bit. But I... To wrap up on the ah Victor kid stuff a little bit, I... You know, this movie has ah is doing a lot of dad stuff.
00:28:14
Speaker
A lot of the movie is has themes of abuse being inherited. And this was, again, like very good storytelling, I'd say. A good just show show the abuse, show the way his father is, the lack of patience he has, the way that he just expects his son to know certain things.
00:28:37
Speaker
And seeing the way that ah carries over into Victor and the sins of the father and all of this. I really like the dad stuff in this movie for reasons that well I'll get into a little later.
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah, and then it you you pick up on like how or Victor figures out like you know the dad let the mom just die in childbirth. um He sees that the dad favors his little brother William more, and so he comes to terms like, okay, well, I'm just, um or he just kind of promises himself, like, I'm going to be smarter than you, I'm going to be better than you.
00:29:14
Speaker
And it goes to, you know, when he is an adult, Victor, he's um he's speaking at this one medical school, basically saying, you know, like, what if we can beat death and, you know, we don't have to die, essentially. And you see him reveal it's not even a torso. It's half of a head, essentially, and and then some organs and all these wires um on this board here. And its spinal cord kind of dangling down a little bit.
00:29:51
Speaker
it's It looks like, I don't know what happened to this person. It looks like they stepped on a landmine and they only have a third of their body from the torso up minus an arm.
00:30:03
Speaker
For that time, everyone's kind of freaking out. Like, okay, what is he trying to do? For that time, I would freak out today if someone brought that into a classroom and they're like, hey, check out this this fucking half-blown-up body. Like, a bear was munching on it in the woods and I brought it here.
00:30:24
Speaker
I mean, think now some people might be a little intrigued and not so repulsed by that if they saw it now. But back then obviously, everyone was just freaking out about it. But they're intrigued still. they You see people even outside the classroom just staring and you know waiting to see what's, you know, just listening. Does he ever say where he got the body from?
00:30:50
Speaker
i almost imagine some grave robber-esque sequence from like the beginning of the 1930s Frankenstein. I think it's the 30s when that came out.
00:31:00
Speaker
ah Where him and maybe some weird friend just go and dig up a corpse and that's what he brings. I don't remember if he says it i don't think he does. Maybe I'm mixing it up with that too.
00:31:14
Speaker
he just, um you know, but what, like flips a switch essentially like and gets the thing to um inhale. and everyone, you know, pretty much thinks this is blasphemy. Like, what are you doing? And he starts tossing a ball with it. like And that's such a thing to see. Like, imagine seeing that. Like...
00:31:37
Speaker
This is really where I fully bought into the movie and was sold on the magic of it. ah Oscar Isaac, so when he wakes this thing up or brings it back to life, he has to stab it with these two like prong things, I think, that come into play later when he's creating the creature.
00:31:58
Speaker
And another just beautiful sequence, but... Oscar Isaac is fucking hamming it up. I think this is when we're really introduced to his character. He is just great coming out, winning me over. I'm just like yes, give this man his Academy Award already. He's great in everything I see him in. He's just a treasure, a true movie star.
00:32:22
Speaker
And he's... Coming in here delivering ah great Victor Frankenstein performance. I think he's just like great casting for this thing. And he kind of introduces this concept that i really latched on to deeply when I was watching this thing that I've never quite...
00:32:44
Speaker
picked up on while watching ah Frankenstein movie. And it's kind of reshaping the way I think about the undead in like vampires and zombies a little bit, because I've always struggled. Like what happens? What is this creature?
00:33:02
Speaker
Is it you inside of this thing? are What do you retain of yourself? Are there memories that, It's something that I always get too hung up on while watching things related to the undead.
00:33:15
Speaker
And he says that it's basically you're creating a new life when you're resurrecting this body. It's very biblical in the way of the resurrection, ah reanimating of flesh, and immaculate conception kind stuff.
00:33:36
Speaker
But it is basically you're reanimating a body and what's happening is you're creating new life in that body. It's not the person that was in it before. It's a whole new being that has to learn from the ground up and is almost infantile.
00:33:52
Speaker
And i I just love that. I latch onto that so hard. And that is why the creature, when we eventually get to him, works so fucking hard for me. just Just from a conceptual level, from the ground up, I like this character, this creature.
00:34:10
Speaker
I even like how when Victor was little and you know he was going through all of his lessons with his dad, he had that little figurine of a woman's body.
00:34:24
Speaker
and you know She can just be as is, but then you can remove her stomach, add a few extra pieces like a fetus, and then put a bigger belly on her to show that she is pregnant.
00:34:40
Speaker
So that's kind of along the lines of this, you know, the creation of life. So the the fact that he keeps that even later in life and they do show him like playing around with it, that was a nice little touch too.
00:34:53
Speaker
From what I heard, Del Toro actually studied anatomy and has been studying it since he was a kid. I heard him talk about how his dad won the lottery when he was younger and put a library into his house, so he just read bunch of books and ended up reading a bunch of books on anatomy.
00:35:10
Speaker
So I'm wondering if if there is an accuracy to the science. To me, it inherently feels quite fantastical in this movie.
00:35:20
Speaker
I mean, if it is all true, like more points to them, but it kind of logic goes out the window for me a little bit with this one. But i I do really like Victor's relationship to science and how...
00:35:38
Speaker
He was basically built this way because of his dad. I know the cliche is Victor is the real monster the whole time. That's like the thing that all the movies have been ah setting up. But one thing we haven't gotten to see is...
00:35:56
Speaker
the create we see the creation of the monster the creation of victor how he becomes the monster and how that both causes him to create the creature and abuse the creature every like the abuse from his dad and the lessons his dad tried to teach embark on him and teach him in abusive ways are both what create and harm the creature and keep him stuck in this hellish existence It was just really sad to see that, like how history was repeating itself once Victor was treating the creature like that. We don't have to jump over there to that part yet.
00:36:37
Speaker
But once that part came on, I was like, holy shit. you're being such an asshole to this creature that is essentially your son you're doing the same thing than your dad did to you that was just like really fascinating to see um because again like i'm not familiar with the story of Frankenstein. Today was actually the first day that I watched the OG Frankenstein.
00:37:04
Speaker
I love how this adaptation is so different from it. You know, watching that one, I was a little confused, like, okay, wait, names are different, you know, whatever. But I enjoyed both of them. but Yeah, they both have like that sadness to it.
00:37:21
Speaker
A funny kind of thing, you had mentioned something that made me think of this. I don't know why, but are you familiar with the character Igor? Yeah.
00:37:32
Speaker
Okay, so I've had like a weird journey with this character and trying to figure out where he comes from and where he is going to pop up. like Last year I was watching Nosferatu and I was like, when's Igor going to pop up? like Where's Igor? And then i was like, oh wait, Igor is not fucking Dracula or Nosferatu. He's Frankenstein.
00:37:56
Speaker
And then ah couple months ago, before we recorded our Child's Play 3 episode, I watched Frankenstein. I'm like, where's Igor? I'm ready for him to pop up. Not in that thing. Watching this movie, I'm like, can't wait to see Del Toro's take on Igor.
00:38:12
Speaker
Fucking Christoph Waltz shows up. I'm like, is he supposed to be Igor? What's up with this? I eventually just looked it up. Igor isn't even from the original book. He's from Son of Frankenstein. That's where he was introduced into. So I don't know. Maybe I'm never going to get Igor. Maybe I just... He's in Young Frankenstein. Maybe I just got to watch that, the musical of Frankenstein. But...
00:38:35
Speaker
I don't know, weird side like story. Or you can watch you can watch The Nightmare Before Christmas because there is a little character, Dr. Finkelstein. he has his little assistant who is like speaks like all creepy-like. and i i think he feeds him a dog treat or some shit, but he's like, excellent, Igor. Oh, yeah.
00:39:03
Speaker
You see him turn around and he's just chomping away at whatever dog treat he just got. So you can watch that and have your Igor. Yeah, I think there's an Igor in Frankenweenie as well.
00:39:13
Speaker
ah So yeah, that's that's probably why I've had Igor in my head is because of Frankenweenie. Damn, now we just got to cover Frankenweenie. I love Frankenweenie. I'll cover that easily. Yeah, yeah without ah without any issue.
00:39:29
Speaker
But yeah, basically, going forward with the plot, but yeah, people are freaked out with Asker Isaac. They're like, get the fuck out of here, dude. Like, we don't want you and your weird science. He basically kills his creature that he's brought to life and is like, okay, I'm gonna just never find success in this world. And Then he eventually meets Christoph Waltz. His character is Heinrich ah Harlander. Heinrich Harlander. Yeah.
00:39:58
Speaker
Um, this guy is willing to fund everything for Oscar Isaac, all of his experiments. And, uh, He basically, i don't know, he buys him a castle and is like, here you go. Here's a cool ass castle.
00:40:13
Speaker
Do your shit in here. And we eventually are brought to this beautiful musical sequence. Like, you know, after the castle's all touched up, it's this very musical sequence. Guillermo del Toro said he selected a waltz for it and he wanted to be very upbeat and pleasant sounding.
00:40:34
Speaker
because this is Victor working at his artistic best when he's creating the creature. And so I do love that it's a very musical sequence. It's not really haunting or scary in any kind of way. It's really exciting. And the music is so magical. I think the score is great. It's really reminiscent of The Shape of Water. I'm wondering if it's the same composer.
00:41:00
Speaker
But God, I loved the music and I loved this whole creation sequence that we get ah right before like the thunderstorm and things really kick off.
00:41:12
Speaker
We also get to meet his younger brother, William, and the mom killer. yeah He should have been like, you killed our mom. And he's like, why do you say that every time I walk into the room?
00:41:26
Speaker
don't have to remind me that you resent me every single day. a lot like Star Wars, actually. He does say that in the movie. He was like, it's just like Star Wars Episode 3. Sorry, i won't talk about Star Wars.
00:41:39
Speaker
For now. And then, yeah, we meet ah Mia Goth's character, too. um So William Frankenstein introduces his fiancée, Mia, and you see her holding, like,
00:41:55
Speaker
A skull. It was part of the, um what was it? Memento Mori portrait that ah Christoph Waltz was trying trying to oh take.
00:42:06
Speaker
I thought she got it from the fucking skull pile in 28 Years Later. yeah of course she did. Yeah, I thought that's what they meant by Memento Mori. I thought this was a 28 Years Later movie.
00:42:21
Speaker
they Thanks for clarifying. I tried. tried my best. You know, you can't be the only one with all the facts here. i have to slide some in somewhere. But yeah, she's like, you know kind of holding the skull, kind of admiring it. And what is it? ah Victor Frankenstein, he sees that and he's just like, huh, I have never seen a woman be interested in stuff like this.
00:42:47
Speaker
At least that's what his ah facial expression looked like. In his mind, he's like, am I attracted to my mom? What is happening here right now? This lady looks like my mom a little bit.
00:42:59
Speaker
I need this to come out on Netflix. That way I could see this again because i maybe I just didn't pay attention to the mom either. Mia Goth is no stranger to being covered up in makeup and kind of hiding who she is. That's kind of that's what the X thing is, these X movies.
00:43:18
Speaker
She's playing different characters. Oh, interesting. I do remember the intro to that, and then I never watched the rest of it. Damn. And your precious Jenna Ortega is in it. what I know.
00:43:30
Speaker
Wow. why That was why i was trying to watch it, and then I think I fell asleep. Wow. Oh my god, i I'm probably one of the worst movie fanatics out there. I can't even call myself a fanatic. But yeah, so you do see that there is a little type of relationship forming between Victor and Elizabeth because he sees she is intrigued with a lot of things that he likes. um
00:44:03
Speaker
they They show her like trying to catch like a butterfly and once they do, he was like, should we set it free or trap it? and just like No hesitation at all. She's like, trap it.
00:44:16
Speaker
and Then they both agree that that's their prisoner. so You see they are pretty similar in the you know dark things that they're interested in and you're thinking okay is she gonna fall for him is she feeling the same way i feel like she did but you know was you know being honorable and just saying no like I am engaged I'm promised to someone else do you feel like that or do you feel like she was just like completely not into Victor at all
00:44:49
Speaker
Man, it's hard to tell. I think that she they did have a connection on some level, and there was a bit of a romance there. But then Mia Goth, later on in the movie, when she comes face-to-face with the creature...
00:45:06
Speaker
she does have a genuine love for the creature too and builds a connection very fast with him. and I think it just may be that she finds like compassion for the neglected weirdo almost like there could be a case for that.
00:45:27
Speaker
There could also be a case made for there being love there. I definitely read those moments as loving But she, like, later on in the movie, doesn't really stand by Victor at all when he, like you mentioned, they talk about this will be our prisoner.
00:45:45
Speaker
When that is actually fully realized in a type of scale, she starts, like, passing judgment on him, like, but you know better than this. He may not know better. You do.
00:45:56
Speaker
And Yeah, it kind of makes me feel like, oh, maybe there wasn't love there. shit There was some type of genuine connection and interest, but maybe she could never really actually find love in a guy like this.
00:46:10
Speaker
He is kind of repulsive in certain ways. Yeah, and I found that strange too because she is engaged to William. You do see, you can feel like the type of connection that her and Victor are forming. Like I bought into that.
00:46:29
Speaker
But then, yeah you do see that she's kind of taken back with his actions when she sees how he is and speaks about the creature.
00:46:41
Speaker
But then as soon as she sees the creature and grows fond of him instantly, it's like, okay, were you just going down like...
00:46:52
Speaker
a down spiral there like going from the normal quote unquote person to the more weird one to the actual creature itself and that's the one you wanted to stick with like I don't know I I thought it was strange it seemed like she didn't love anybody at that point she was just like fascinated with the creature There is a unfulfilled kind of vibe I get from her where she is showing love and compassion to these men.
00:47:25
Speaker
But she herself doesn't strike me as someone who's entirely fulfilled by any of them. And i guess the biggest criticism i could throw at this movie is they don't dive enough into Mia Goth's character for being a two and a half hour movie.
00:47:43
Speaker
I know chapter one, we didn't really talk about it, but this movie is divided into chapters. I know the first chapter is Victor's chapter, but I could have used a bit more. I could have spent more time with Mia Goth, even if this thing needs to be 10, 15 minutes longer. give her Give us a bit more insight into what's going on inside her head, a little bit more interiority.
00:48:04
Speaker
a little bit more into her wants and desires as a character as opposed to being desired. And ah honestly, mostly just being just stunning to look at, not even in like a gross pig man way. Like, ah oh my God, the colors she's wearing, the fucking greens and the blues and the slight touch of purple,
00:48:29
Speaker
all giving shape of water vibes kind of I was like digging her whole look I mean she was visually one of the most impressing or impressive parts about the world he's created like her wardrobe and her vibe and just her presence when she was on screen Yeah, I thought we were going to get a little more backstory on her or just anything extra about her.
00:48:57
Speaker
i enjoyed the scene where um Victor's following her into her confession and he pretends to be the priest on the other end and she knows it's him already and she's just playing around like, no, my fiancé's brother is just like...
00:49:17
Speaker
i don't I forgot how she described him, but yeah, she was just like not for him. and They ended up kind of talking from then on out. Even if it was just a scene with her talking to someone else saying whether she did or did not have feelings for Victor, i think I would have felt a little better having that in the scene or in the film instead of this drastic flip Yeah, and it feels like her character almost entirely around to serve the the men in the movie.
00:49:52
Speaker
And maybe that is kind of making some type of... it's Maybe it's a commentary on the role that women had in this time. it feels like she's just going through the marriage with the marriage just because that's what you do. You find a husband, you get married...
00:50:10
Speaker
because when she like you know spoiler alert we're in the spoiler section when she eventually gets shot later and is with the creature she's like ready that she's like take me away i want to go where you're going and it seems like she's just like yeah i'm ready to let go of this life and this relationship i was with and these ah kind of just like controlling men that i've been surrounded by even will or yeah william he doesn't seem that bad i don't know he just seems like kind of white bread a little bit he's just maybe his average schmo that's what he is yeah and maybe his biggest crime is just not being interesting enough because they don't show anything great about him no i don't know was
00:51:03
Speaker
Little by little, you start to see Christoph Waltz' character. like He is um Mia's uncle. That is her name in here. or Yeah, Mia Goth, Elizabeth's uncle.
00:51:16
Speaker
He is her uncle in here, and he does notice that you know Victor is like growing attached to her but he doesn't say anything you end up finding out that he does have syphilis and this was the reason why he was basically funding everything for victor to get his project and everything up and running to create another man is because wants once to what what did he want exactly he wanted to like chucky this and be into this new man's body
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah, that was kind of my read of it. He wanted to use this new body so he could hopefully reside in it because his current body is dying.
00:52:04
Speaker
That was my read. I think that's kind of what his endgame was. But him and Oscar, I mean, did you think that was reasonable for him? It doesn't seem too realistic. I don't know if he knows how the science works.
00:52:17
Speaker
I mean, he was probably at that point where he was just like, you know, i'm at my wit's end here. Like, nothing is working for me. But this man just showed that you could bring someone back from the dead, essentially. Yeah, definitely unrealistic. I don't know how he thought that would work. Because, yeah, he only saw Victor bring this thing to life. He never saw, like, any type of...
00:52:46
Speaker
soul or intelligence in the little like half cadaver yeah they kind of touch on that here and there the they ask like i think christoph waltz even makes a mention somebody makes a mention like where is the soul in all of this i do kind of like the idea of that like are you creating a new soul is this a creature without a soul essentially Yeah, so I don't know where this guy thought this would be a successful plan, but yeah, at this moment, like we're back at the castle, and he's just saying, no, that can't be done. He's got the body, this like new body for the creature laying there, and one...
00:53:33
Speaker
aspect I like you know in the original Frankenstein movie you get the idea that he's a grave robber and he's kind of getting each piece in this one and maybe this is closer to the novel they talk about how there was a battle coming up and they go to this like big snowy battle and they're like get the bodies that are in the middle of the pile and like that's the way that he collects the pieces for this creature um I did really enjoy That being how they create this cadaver. And that was such like an awesome sequence and an awesome realization of this.
00:54:08
Speaker
I did enjoy that too. And that part, I had to look away a lot of the times because you know he's just cutting away at all these corpses to you know collect the healthier pieces to sew them together and make this you know perfect man here.
00:54:28
Speaker
And there was like a gross part where you could see the hand and all the tendons and he was like moving it. Oh my God. i think my hand fell asleep at that part. Just seeing that it was so gross.
00:54:41
Speaker
All of that is it leading up to like how I had mentioned this like very musical sequence, him performing at his artistic best. And that, going back to back with ah him having his conflict with Christoph Waltz, you had mentioned that we had already talked about like what he wants out of this.
00:55:01
Speaker
i do kind of find it a little funny where Frankenstein's like, I don't have time for this. i'm gonna I need to go do this. And he just leaves the Baron alone to just fuck up his shit if he wants to. And I was just like, okay, like this guy doesn't seem trustworthy. What if he just unplugs all your shit?
00:55:21
Speaker
You don't know what this guy could do. Oscar Isaac has to climb to the top of the castle in this insane storm and screw on these like prongs that they're using to conduct electricity.
00:55:34
Speaker
i I was seeing this with my girlfriend and she made a comment. He couldn't have done this earlier before it was raining. This part had to wait until it was raining. yeah Exactly. I'm like, this motherfucker is climbing this tower with such ease. He's not slipping, he's not struggling, and it's pouring out.
00:55:57
Speaker
That was the scariest part of the movie, dude, watching that. I was like, he you would no, if anybody would die. If this wasn't a movie, you would die. And I'm just looking at the background like, man, I know this is all like green screen and everything, but holy fuck, this is terrifying to see Yeah, it's like they should have had a clip when he was a kid of his dad teaching him how to fucking free solo rock climb because that's what he's doing basically here. He's not strapped on no protection rainstorms.
00:56:33
Speaker
I'd like to have somebody who actually free solos watch this and determine what the survivability rate of this would be because it seemed pretty low. I don't know. I was waiting for him to slip or something, but yeah, he was able to like...
00:56:48
Speaker
climb up there his thing climb back down by that time and it's an amazing sequence too i don't want to like before we get too far away seem like i hate it i know we just made fun of it it's so exciting to watch and it like you said it looks gorgeous and terrifying at the same time again this i was so wrapped up in this whole sequence it is another pretty action-packed moment, I'd say.
00:57:14
Speaker
The Baron is threatening to throw one of those electric prongs down this like sewage pipe or whatever, and they get in a confrontation. The Baron himself falls down, and he dies.
00:57:27
Speaker
The thing gets damaged, but I don't think that plays much of a role into anything. And basically we see the electrocution thing, like the creature getting brought back to life.
00:57:39
Speaker
He's almost in like Jesus pose a little bit. It's very, yeah, the biblical references are pretty clear in this movie, I think. yeah the monster you know with his like wrapped in a mummy attire the monster doesn't come to life in this moment he tries to bring him to life and nothing happens and he's like fuck it i'm gonna just take my shirt off and just go to bed i i give up this is it and his dirty ass pants and gloves that he still had on that was disgusting
00:58:11
Speaker
Yeah, I don't lay in my bed in outside clothes, but this guy, zero issue with it. He's the real monster. that's That's a real showcase of his monstrous behavior.
00:58:23
Speaker
Exactly. but So I heard Del Toro talk about this next moment on NPR, how no one had realized this moment from the book, but... I guess Frankenstein being at the end of like the foot of his bed when he wakes up is a part of Mary Shelley's original novel that Del Toro is like Del Toro. He was like, I've seen every Frankenstein adaptation, I'm pretty sure.
00:58:47
Speaker
And they've never done this. I'm the only one. And he seemed pretty happy about that. And it is a very cool, very cool imagery. It's pretty chilling. And it you end up getting a really lovely sequence of Oscar Isaac kind of just like happy, like it worked. Yes, ah I have a son now. And while it is kind of short lived, you know that it's going to take a turn for the worst.
00:59:12
Speaker
It is kind of nice to see this infantile, beautiful, yet creepy looking Frankenstein. Like we'll get ah more into Jacob Elordi in a second. I really want to dive into him in a little bit. But what were your thoughts on this?
00:59:30
Speaker
I liked it. i was just wondering how long was he standing there staring at him. And yeah it was ah very heartfelt moment because you can see the creature. He's kind of like mimicking Victor's movements and Victor is excited. He's trying to show him the sun and feel like the warmth and everything.
00:59:54
Speaker
they my i don't This is kind of not like the best place for it to remind me, but it reminded me of the NPR that you sent me earlier. I did listen to some of it.
01:00:06
Speaker
I was able to relate to Del Toro when he had said basically fascinated death and would... death and he would I think it was his mom or his grandmother.
01:00:20
Speaker
no I think it was his grandmother because they would um say to each other, you know, pray that I'll be here tomorrow or something. And then he would you know, watch her sleep just to see and, you know, make sure that she was breathing.
01:00:39
Speaker
And he's like, if she didn't breathe for like two seconds, you know, i thought she died. And that resonated with me just because I actually would do that with my mom a lot. Like if I... um fell asleep next to her I would wake up and I would just like look at her back just to make sure she was breathing and were quite a few times I'm like fuck why isn't she breathing but you know she would start to breathe normally again and I was like wow okay I wasn't the only one who did that as a kid yeah I can't I don't think I ever did that that is interesting yeah it is cool you can relate to him in that way
01:01:19
Speaker
All right, so we've got to talk about Jacob Elordi's character. I feel like we'd be remiss if we didn't mention it on this, talk about him on this episode. Might be the only time we'll ever talk about Jacob Elordi on this podcast. Probably.
01:01:33
Speaker
i don't know your relationship with him as an actor. I want to say his breakout was Euphoria. I watched him on that. I quite liked... Not quite liked. I liked Euphoria Season 1.
01:01:46
Speaker
Thought the specials that they put out, the two like hour specials, were great. Season 2, I was incredibly disappointed by. I hopped off immediately. But I was never a big Jacob Elordi fan. i His character was so reprehensible in Euphoria. It kind of carried with me.
01:02:03
Speaker
it carried over with him to other performances. He won me over a bit in Priscilla with his Elvis Presley performance. I just thought it was so subtle. And I was like, oh, this guy's got real good just to acting chops.
01:02:17
Speaker
And this movie, I think this is his best performance I've seen him in. I totally was won over by him. i don't know if he'll get any Academy love. ah It would be kind of deserving, though. It's so like sweet and beautiful and infantile at times and then subtly intelligent at times and the physicality that he's giving in this. i like it.
01:02:45
Speaker
This is the creature performance that works more for me than the Skarsgård Nosferatu thing, I think. like That got a lot of praise. I think this is the creature performance for me if we're going like, you know, recent monster features. Overall, if we're going, I'm going the Shape of Water monster without a doubt.
01:03:04
Speaker
Like that makeup's insane. But fucking, yeah, I thought that Elordi's Frankenstein was so great, especially for what this movie is doing.
01:03:15
Speaker
The only thing that I've seen um Jacob Elordian was The Kissing Booth. I actually watched them whenever they came out on Netflix.
01:03:27
Speaker
And liked his character in there. i hadn't seen him in anything else. um I think I did see the trailer for Priscilla. and I thought it was pretty cool. And i was like, oh, he's in there. Awesome.
01:03:39
Speaker
But again, it was another shot in here where I was like... Wow, this guy's face looks familiar. Who the fuck is he, though? And then it finally clicked. I'm like, wait, I think it's that guy. And I didn't know his actual name, but...
01:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, um his performance in here, i love definitely infantile at first and then throughout some of his other scenes in here, whether it's just with Victor or even when he meets um the blind guy in there. i forgot his name. I think he was also in Game of Thrones at one point. His name is just Blind Man from what I can see, but he's played by David Bradley.
01:04:23
Speaker
i think, yes, from Game of Thrones. Okay, yeah. didn't realize you were such a big Game of Thrones head. i did binge it and man, that was that was a hard watch to watch all those just because... It's fucking 800 hours of your life.
01:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, and the thing was when I was watching it, everyone was like, oh my God, you're so lucky because you're watching it all consecutively and you don't have to wait like the rest of us. I'm like, okay. I hate when people say that. It's like, okay.
01:05:01
Speaker
like Yeah, but you got to experience like the cultural moment as was happening. Exactly. yeah Yeah. I was just lost before I saw it. but Yeah, you got yeah years of this experience, not like a week.
01:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, like, you got to grow with it. I'm just, like, having it all hit me, and there were days where I wanted to take a break because I'm like, this is kind of fucking with me at times, especially when you had, um what's his name, David Bradley. He was a dick in there.
01:05:33
Speaker
and then um fucking ah Charles Dance as well. He's a dick in there, too. They understand the assignments. Anyway, um yeah, but, like,
01:05:45
Speaker
Jacob Elordi's character, like, it's insane what he's able or he's capable to do of doing. Wow, I can't talk anymore. He is very compassionate, very friendly, and you see he has, like, that gentleness to him when someone is actually extending that same, like,
01:06:09
Speaker
feeling to him like at first that's what victor was kind of extending to him like viewing him as very precious because he just created this creature and then when elizabeth meets him you know she's just really fascinated with him and you do see they have like I don't even want to call it a bond, but you see something there between them.
01:06:34
Speaker
They obviously like each other's company. And that was the second word that he had ever muttered out was her name because she kind of shows him how to say it. He does befriend the blind man and he tries to, you know...
01:06:47
Speaker
tend to that family's needs and then once like he kind of shows his much monstrous side you feel bad for him still because you see why he's becoming that way so it's very sad once you actually see his whole side of everything And before you even get the whole journey and see the transformation, all you're really... The only context you're provided for who this person is outside of the infantile stages, what we're seeing, we keep cutting back to him in the ice. And you know eventually, like, okay, he's going to become this formidable force, this, like, a legitimate monster.
01:07:34
Speaker
And you don't really know, is there any compassion in him? Like, you you don't know how he gets there. And of course, you know the movie is going to show you. But you really, you don't know what side he lands on at the end of the journey when he's fucking up those people on that ship. Like, is he full monster? Has this become a full tragedy?
01:07:56
Speaker
And he's just completely lost. But you learn throughout the journey, no, he ah doesn't fully become, He doesn't become the person that his father is. He does carry more compassion than Elizabeth has. He has this curious side that he really gives in to.
01:08:17
Speaker
But the real like tragedy that we get in Victor's story is... He just has no patience for this ah creature. He created him, but he's not learning fast enough. He's just like his dad. Like, why aren't you learning words? All you say is Victor, Victor, Victor.
01:08:35
Speaker
He keeps him chained in a basement because the creature doesn't know any better. Elizabeth points out, but you know better. He's... just lost all compassion. He's seeing this thing as just almost just an experiment, not this new life that he's created and brought into the world. He starts physically abusing the creature, even though the creature kind of gets him to back off. And when the creature creature shows his strength, he reacts like,
01:09:04
Speaker
Oh, I have to kill this thing. i This thing is a monster. It's dangerous. He completely turns on it and gets him and his brother to burn down the castle in this absolutely fantastic sequence.
01:09:22
Speaker
But the whole thing literally goes up in flames. And by the end of this, yeah, the creature escapes, he breaks out of his chains, but he fucking drowns and dies for the first time. It's really sad and upsetting seeing him sink to the bottom of the ocean. And you don't know how long he's been dead.
01:09:42
Speaker
I assume his body somehow floated over time to a certain area and then ah low tide hit and he was eventually able to resurrect himself. It's really dark and upsetting. He could have been down there for weeks for all we know.
01:09:59
Speaker
you know i didn't even think of that because i did see him like once he fell in the water and then they just cut to him being on land in a different scene.
01:10:12
Speaker
i was just thinking, how the hell did that happen? him Because he sank pretty fucking deep. I didn't even think about that. like Damn, he probably was in there for ah God knows how long and then was finally like...
01:10:26
Speaker
washed up on shore. Like that's a really good note to pick up on, especially because once they kind of cut back to the initial scene or setting in the beginning where, you know, they're in that Arctic area and he had one of the, I don't know if it was the captain or one of the men on the ship, they shot the ice where um the creature was standing on so he can fall in the water And that part kind of hurt watching because it's like, oh my God, this guy is about to fucking freeze and drown.
01:11:02
Speaker
And they show him just sinking to the bottom of the water. but then later he does like, you know, break his way out of the ice. He is a distance from where the ship was, but it's just like, holy shit, you are able to survive in that water.
01:11:21
Speaker
God knows how long it took for you to get over there, but now you're able to break out and make your way back to the ship itself. It's great imagery, him in the ice, him in the distance, him watching the ship from a distance.
01:11:37
Speaker
It's one of the scarier parts about this movie because you know this guy, if he wanted to, he could come in come back in and just fuck these people up. But it's almost scarier him sitting there and waiting, not knowing what he wants. Yeah, we know he wants Victor.
01:11:54
Speaker
but you don't know exactly what's going to happen when he ends up face-to-face with Victor. And, you know, we see what happens, and it brings us to part two. We get the creature side of the story.
01:12:08
Speaker
But i' really i really connected with the dad stuff in this movie. i'll I'll actually save this for the end. Yeah, we're basically just brought... Like, the creature makes his way into ah the cabin where Victor is being held.
01:12:28
Speaker
I think it's kind of funny. He's like... The captain's like, let me go talk to my men or whatever. He opens the door and Frank and... Or the creature's right there. and this is kind of a cheesy moment a little bit it didn't fully work for me maybe it's how it happens in the novel but the captain's like go ahead kill me that'll show that this guy's story was true and then frankenstein's like this guy's been talking shit huh okay well there's two sides to every story let me let me sit sit you down
01:13:02
Speaker
I love that. And he's like, ah here's my side of the story. And I was like, that's the framing device that this is happening under? Okay, I guess I'll buy it.
01:13:13
Speaker
It felt a little just cute to me. little too cute. Yeah, that was a little odd. Maybe that is how it was in the novel. But yeah that didn't sit well with me either. Like, okay, you were just distraught.
01:13:29
Speaker
destroying everyone outside and damn near demolishing the ship here. Not really, but you were. and now you're in here and just like, oh, so let me tell my side of the story.
01:13:42
Speaker
and then i was like, wait, we're not halfway done yet? Like we got a whole other section to go through. i was like, fuck, okay. Yeah, just learning his tale of everything It's a lot slower paced than the first act was, but it still keeps you captivated throughout everything. You do see like how he you know learns more. He's able to kind of... like
01:14:14
Speaker
not really spy but you know he's taking shelter in this family's house after two of the men tried to like hunt him down essentially not even just hunt him it's like they just see him and the guys like shoot him and i was like okay that's pretty rash guys like what the fuck Yeah, and he was able to hide out in this house and the blind man um is there with the little girl.
01:14:44
Speaker
you know as they're like showing him teach her things and she's learning like the alphabet, like being able to read, he's like learning along with her So I thought it was cute once he was able to have like that one-on-one time with the blind man and how that guy, he was hospitable. He was very sweet to ah the creature and just welcoming to him.
01:15:12
Speaker
i love that moment for him because it's like, wow, this guy finally has a fucking break. Someone actually likes him. he genuinely did make a friend. And it was heartbreaking once, you know, he goes on his little like...
01:15:30
Speaker
self-exploration journey to figure out where he came from. And then he comes back and sees these wolves that he originally were at the house at an earlier time. They were there this time and they ended up like killing the grandfather or the old man, whoever he was in there. I think he was a grandfather. And the creature was able to like you know kill some of these wolves and scare off the rest of them. Unfortunately, now it just looks like he was the only one in there who killed the blind men once those two hunters came back.
01:16:08
Speaker
So now he does look like He's a monster that they were originally trying to kill off in the first place. I fucking hated seeing that. That was so rough to watch. But it does make sense as to why he does end up getting like all this rage because the one person that he knew and probably loved in the beginning fucking tried to kill him the other person who he had a connection to he never saw again until later on in the film and then the third person that he grew very attached to ended up getting killed and he was blamed for it so it's like yeah he wasn't dealt the best card in his life his forced to life here
01:16:52
Speaker
But with all of this rage also comes a sense of understanding. So when he's living in the walls of this house, he ends up becoming, I think what they dub him, like the guardian of the forest.
01:17:07
Speaker
He, i think, like builds protection for their sheep from the wolves and just basically ends up looking after them in ways they wouldn't be able to look after themselves. But when he sees the wolves kill the sheep and see the wolves kill the man, and then he ends up killing ah one or a couple of the wolves, he starts to realize, is this just life? Like, we can't exist without us inevitably killing each other.
01:17:35
Speaker
And he's talking about how there's not even... emotion involved and we don't even hate each other just be by the fact that we exist we will in turn kill each other and i thought that was kind of ah really nice like touch to all of this like he's kind of learning a philosophy and coming up with his own interpretation of how the world works we're getting a real deep dive into him i like to he becomes a fan of literature through this blind man he kind of talks about his origin a little bit to him and the blind man shows a lot of empathy for him and really cares for him and when this character dies it genuinely feels tragic and
01:18:23
Speaker
moments after that, like after he gets in the confrontation with the hunters, he's like walking away. And I don't remember if it was like just because of the altercation from the hunters and the wolves, but he ends up dying again. And we get this incredible voiceover that I loved. It was my Letterboxd review where he says,
01:18:45
Speaker
there was silence again and then merciless life. And it's such a beautiful thing. And he just wakes up right after that. And you don't even know how long he was dead for again, but it's just this burden of life. He didn't ask for, and he's just constantly mistreated. But now he has this intelligence and this understanding and interpretation of it all. And it's almost more tragic than,
01:19:14
Speaker
I don't know what's more tragic, all of this happening when he was infantile or all of this happening and him dying and coming back and now he understands what's happening. It's so, again, like tragic, but horrific at the same time to be put through.
01:19:29
Speaker
Have you seen the show Penny Dreadful? No, but I feel like this has been brought up on the podcast a couple times. I did ask you that, probably. he Penny Dreadful, I think I might have done.
01:19:41
Speaker
Penny Dreadful, I don't know. Yeah, probably. um They do have a little section of Frankenstein in there, and they show you know Victor Frankenstein, the creature himself.
01:19:58
Speaker
ah The person who played him ah was Kahn, Kinnear, I believe. I don't like this portrayal of Frankenstein, though, because in there, like, on it ah that obviously, the only, like, real reference that I could really go off of for Frankenstein is the one from the Munsters.
01:20:22
Speaker
The original, obviously, again, didn't watch that until today. But this portrayal of the creature He was very, very pitiful. like You see him filled with rage once he gets to Victor Frankenstein and he's demanding for him to make him a partner because you know he can't die and then he can't live like this anymore. and He didn't ask to live like this.
01:20:50
Speaker
But i don't know. There are times he seems very, very fragile and just kind of like a doormat with everyone else.
01:21:02
Speaker
In this film, you see him either being, what is it, compassionate or just full-on monster.
01:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, he rips somebody's jaw off in that fucking altercation. The only real person where I was like, Did they need that? He didn't do anything to the other guys. That was pretty aggro.
01:21:24
Speaker
He needed it. He needed it. It had to be done. But yeah, it just works better in here. Not just because, like I don't know the exact height of Jacob Elordi. I know they made him look even more massive in here.
01:21:40
Speaker
Yeah, they wanted him to look like Jesus on the cross or a man sculpted out of marble. Yeah, like his performance of this Frankenstein or creature, i absolutely adore. He brought so much to this film and like a little clip of ah him, Del Toro, and... um Oscar Isaac. Oscar Isaac. Yeah.
01:22:06
Speaker
They were just kind of talking about the film and like Jacob and del Toro, they were saying, you know, this film like would basically tell us like when it, what it needed. And that's pretty cool because then they were able to see like, okay, what more needs to be put into this or what we need to add more of And just everything that Jacob Bellorti brings in the entire cast in this film, everything that they bring, it's just very haunting to watch, very like sad to watch, but so fucking fun to watch too.
01:22:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. Like that action scene with the wolf is another great spectacle, but also ah like a tragic moment because you kind of know he's this is going to look like he did all of this.
01:22:56
Speaker
But through talking to the blind man in the cabin, the blind man encourages him, go find Victor. Victor was the only word that he knew. And it kind of like almost echoes in his head.
01:23:08
Speaker
And after he comes back to life, he goes to search for Victor and ends up at ah William and Elizabeth's wedding where he's asking Victor, as you said, to make him a bride. And I was like, oh, bride of Frankenstein coming.
01:23:25
Speaker
We don't get that. Victor's like, no, fuck you. I hate you. You you look weird. And he's like, what? Yeah. The creature starts smashing some stuff. He's not too happy with that. It gets Elizabeth's attention. She goes into the room.
01:23:41
Speaker
And basically, like, I don't remember exactly, like, beat for beat what happens, but Victor shoots Elizabeth by accident when he's trying to shoot the creature, i think.
01:23:52
Speaker
And people hear all of this. They come storming upstairs and the creature and, like, it looks like he did it. He killed Elizabeth. The creature essentially like brings Elizabeth to a little like cave area where she ends up dying and they have a nice moment together. And I think Victor shows up and they get in an altercation.
01:24:17
Speaker
I remember Victor's leg getting fucked up. I didn't talk about that enough. Or I didn't talk about that earlier. But there's a funny reoccurring bit where Victor's leg keeps getting fucked up throughout the movie in and but just worse and worse ways.
01:24:32
Speaker
That I really enjoyed. but mean Do you remember how all of this shook out? At the cave? I really don't, actually. i just remember more so like the scenes going on at the wedding. We can kind of breeze past it if we don't if we both don't remember. Yeah, I just know like at the wedding, um i think the creature like fucking whacks William, i and he goes flying. He bangs his head on like the corner of a cabinet or something, a wooden fixture,
01:25:05
Speaker
And that's all bloody. And then that's set up. He's going to become Igor, I assume. That's when Victor goes up to him and, you know, he's trying to tell him, like, you're going to be OK. You're going be OK. He's like, no, I'm not. But then, like, William is the one to tell Victor, like, you know, i i was always scared of you. And, you know, you were the monster this whole time.
01:25:28
Speaker
And I was like, damn, what a thing to say right when you're about to die and you say that to your brother. But i mean, it's true. Like, it does suck because, you know, this guy, he created this creature not because he wanted a son or he wanted to create life. He did it just for science. And then on the way there, he's like...
01:25:51
Speaker
you know, falling for his brother's fiance. And he ends up getting like a little bit of a black heart once she rejects him. And then his creation he grows impatient with because yeah he's not, you know, learning at a good speed. And he doesn't even really take the time to teach him things. so that ends up happening. He's abusive to this creature. So it's like,
01:26:20
Speaker
damn motherfucker you are pretty monstrous in this shit and that's just you as a human whereas this creation on his own is being driven to madness here And after like this whole conflict, Oscar Isaac, his victor, goes on the run, basically. And yeah, this is where we're all caught up and we get the refresher of the captain finding Oscar Isaac. I was like, I'm glad you're showing me this because I missed it at the beginning.
01:26:52
Speaker
Thanks for getting me caught. It's like they knew that I needed the gaps filled in a little bit. And before we get on, I did want to say you like summed up all of that very well about the creature and ah his relationship with Victor and his the circumstances around his creation, because that brings us right to the end where after the creature is like, and now I'm here, that's my story.
01:27:17
Speaker
are brought to this really cathartic moment where Victor essentially is just like, I'm sorry for how bad of a dad I was to you. I'm sorry all of this happened to you.
01:27:31
Speaker
And the creature is just like, I forgive you. And that's all he needed, really. He just wanted his dad to say, I'm sorry and I'm proud of you. you know As simple as that was.
01:27:44
Speaker
This movie is a bad dad movie at heart. And, you know, those tend to kind of work for me a little bit. I like the simplicity of it all. Him just wanting his dad to tell him that, ah like, I'm sorry. Just the simple, basic human need, the very human need of being, of needing to hear I'm sorry,
01:28:09
Speaker
it It's something i mean I can kind of relate to. Me hearing I'm sorry does go a very long way, especially like after really difficult moments. It can really bring me back and yeah get me to get to that forgiving moment. It is a moment of catharsis, and this movie brings you there very well.
01:28:30
Speaker
And this ending really sealed it all in for me. i don't want to get too, like, too personal, I guess, on the podcast, but I'm someone who I've had a very, I guess, like, complicated, for lack of a better word, relationship with my father.
01:28:47
Speaker
And we're still like working at It feels like we're in this perpetual state of working on it. And things are better than where they used to be. But I'm not particularly close with him. There are times where I wish that he saw me more and ah appreciated more of me as a person and the things that I was into and got to my level ah little bit.
01:29:14
Speaker
And... This movie, I felt like, represented that beautifully. I know the Victor is the monster thing is always the ah like point of this movie, but the movie being about how our dads, how our parental figures may damage us and...
01:29:35
Speaker
how just being seen and the damage being seen and just being told, I'm sorry, goes such a long way and is such a healing thing. And seeing it on screen done so, again, so simplistically, it just is all like better. I was like, that is kind of like...
01:29:58
Speaker
the point, I think, like not just in the movie, but in life, the words are healing. Like being seen for who you are is meaningful.
01:30:10
Speaker
And I really connected with this movie on that level, like throughout. I loved, not love, but like really connected with and felt seen by the creature. And Felt like my relationship with my own father was represented in ways in this movie. And I, at the end of it, I know I'm talking along and I'm kind of summarizing my final thoughts too, but at the end of the movie, i like wanted to weep.
01:30:41
Speaker
a little bit I felt that it was beautiful and walked out feeling like this movie has a place in my life and I'm glad that it's here and I haven't been able to get this movie out of my mind since walking out of the theater but yeah at the end of this I like deeply connected with the themes of this movie Yeah, and there was even um the part where um Elizabeth and Victor, they were talking and he he's upset because he sees that you know she has a liking towards the creature and he was just like, you know he he doesn't even know any other words other than Victor. That's all he says. And she says, well, maybe right now that word means everything to him.
01:31:30
Speaker
And, you know, it's true. Words have like a very, you know, strong meaning, whatever they are. And yeah sometimes people, they do need ah that type of genuine closure from somebody, whether it be their dad or um family member, friend, whatever.
01:31:51
Speaker
um But sometimes they need that and that can go such a long way. And i was happy that you know the ending sequence wasn't like a huge action build up because i thought that's what it was going to be like essentially the creature i don't know holding up um victor frankenstein by the neck against like the wall and then that's when he apologizes ah you thought it was gonna be like 28 years later like ripped his skull out and it's his fucking spinal column
01:32:24
Speaker
Yeah, something like that. Something brutal. We needed more in there. But no, that's what I was thinking it was going to lead up to. But it didn't. It was essentially like the son um next to the dad while he's on his deathbed.
01:32:40
Speaker
After explaining like, you know, you created me. didn't ask to be here. you hurt me by, you know... trying to, you know, kill me and, you know, you abandoned me and then tried to kill me and then basically have forsaken me here. And this is why I have come to be how I am now.
01:33:04
Speaker
you the fact that, you know, Victor was able to, you know, absorb all of that and actually say, you know, I am sorry and ask for forgiveness, like the just like how you're saying the simplicity of it and how and don't want to say easy, but, you know, just like Quickly, the creature just said, yes, you know, essentially, that's all I needed from you was an apology.
01:33:31
Speaker
It was a ah good way to end the film. I didn't feel like unfulfilled or anything. I felt like that was a very nice, subtle way just for them to, you know, come to their own resolution.
01:33:42
Speaker
and be able to like have creature part ways with him He got what he needed, essentially, and what he wasn't expecting. He was even able to like push the ship off to help them, and that just shows right then and there.
01:33:57
Speaker
This man or this creature is not a monster. He's just misunderstood, like most monsters are. And Victor's final line to him or one of his last lines, that his send off before his character perishes, is um he because the creature is still like, what do I do with this life? It feels meaningless. I don't want to be here anymore. And Victor is like.
01:34:24
Speaker
basically, um might be getting it wrong, but he says something along the lines of, when burdened, when life, the best recourse is to live and live your life to the fullest. And again, a very simple message, but I found it ah quite beautiful and something I related to at like my darkest, darkest times, you know, i will have maybe a glimpse, I don't really, I'm not a suicidal person or have suicidal thoughts, but I will have like a glimpse of a thought of,
01:34:52
Speaker
I would like to just not be here anymore, not be doing this right now. But my drive to push forward, my drive to exist, my drive to create is stronger than that. And it is pretty profound, the idea of existing and existing to experience experience.
01:35:14
Speaker
no one can take that away from you. No one can take your ability to experience and to persevere away from you. And he's left with this message of, yeah, I'm just, what else do I have to do but to just go and live?
01:35:30
Speaker
And we don't know what that looks like, but I would like to believe that he is going to find the ideal living for him after a lot of searching.
01:35:44
Speaker
yeah It just ends with um him kind of like walking into the sunrise and just taking in all of the sunlight. and At least there, it's just like, okay, like this is another day, a new day, but you know maybe a brighter day ah compared to all the dark days that he had. the real monsters were the friends we made along the way.
01:36:10
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. And Victor. And you never trust the living. Good point. Except in zombie movies. Well, ah you never know. Maybe just don't trust anybody, living or dead.
01:36:24
Speaker
Exactly. Just don't trust anybody. Just stay in a bubble like I do. It works. You got any final thoughts on Frankenstein 2025? Yeah. I just ah hope everyone gets a chance to actually watch it. like If you guys
Closing Thoughts & Podcast Promotion
01:36:40
Speaker
wait and you know check it out once it's on Netflix, great, but you know just actually give yourself some time to sit there and be able to unwind and watch it and you know just absorb it all in without getting distracted by your phones because it's such a good film to watch. You won't regret it at all.
01:37:00
Speaker
Yeah, I was thinking about it earlier. If I had to consume this at home, if I didn't get to see it in a theater, what I would do. And my recommendation, wait till it's night. wait You know, a night where you're not going to fall asleep watching a movie.
01:37:15
Speaker
Make yourself some popcorn or whatever your favorite snack is. Turn off all the lights. Pitch black. keep your phone somewhere else, watch this movie alone, or watch it with somebody you love. That ah could be a good way to consume it too.
01:37:31
Speaker
I'm going to be watching it mostly alone here going forward, I'm pretty sure. But you know just really create an intimate, dark setting to take this movie in and really absorb it.
01:37:44
Speaker
That would be my recommendation for Netflix watchers. And guys, just know that we were we're doing this shit for you. We go to the movies to see these new releases for you guys and just to keep busting them out for you. Like we had a a really cool October with our, you know, favorite October picks, at least for this year.
01:38:10
Speaker
And we still got, you know... Wait, is this episode releasing after our rect tip our our Trick or Treat one? Yeah, right? and <unk> Yeah, it'll be coming out a couple days after. If it comes, i don't know, if we can get it out early, maybe it'll be a couple days early, but it'll be after Trick or Treat regardless. Okay.
01:38:29
Speaker
Well, yeah, we had a fun October and, you know, we just want to keep like bringing you guys stuff. Just good material to listen to. Don't forget to rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
01:38:42
Speaker
Go ah follow our page on Instagram, morbid underscore curiosities underscore POD. And let us know if there's anything else you want us to cover. We've been Morbid Curiosities.
01:38:55
Speaker
Let's go.