Black Phone 2

Transcript

Speaker: What's up, guys? We're Morbid Curiosities, your favorite horror movie podcast, and we're back. We're back with another episode. I'm one of your hosts, Nicholas Ewers, and with me is the lightweight champion of the world, the morbid mistress of mayhem herself,

Speaker: Mercedes Martinez, how are you feeling today, Nick? What's going on in your life? I'm doing okay. i I'll just touch on this briefly. yeah like Since it's film related, yesterday, because of my awesome girlfriend, I got to visit the Criterion Closet in Chicago. I'm like still reflecting on that moment.

Speaker: It was pretty meaningful to me. so i'm I've got that going on right now. But I'm also like a sleepy Nick today. I don't know if I sound like i have energy in my voice, but I'm imagining there's going to be a dip happening at some point in this episode. Unless we get real riled up about shit in this one. Yeah, I'm going to become a sleepy time Nick.

Speaker: I mean, there have been plenty of episodes where I sound so monotone and we're like maybe an hour in and I'm like, fuck, let me get it together and at least try to sound alive. And and then I get mad. Like, why didn't he fucking tell me how much of a dud I sound like?

Speaker: I don't think you sound like a sleepy k Nick, though. I think you sound zen right now. I somehow picked it back up when I started doing the intro. I really locked in. It was one of those rare occasions where I, but I don't know, maybe when I listen to playback, it's going to sound terrible, but it felt good in the moment when I was doing it.

Speaker: Yeah, I think I got a little jolt of energy after that. It's like one of those moments where I don't remember what it was. and think I'm thinking of workaholics.

Speaker: Like Adam got like stupid wasted and he's singing and he thinks he's singing amazingly and he's really just yelling in the microphone.

Speaker: So that kind of reminded me of that situation. Oh, that's like everybody. Everybody at karaoke, but also everybody when they're singing and they're driving or everybody when they're singing in the shower. It's sounding amazing. Those acoustics going, bouncing off the shower wall. You can you really get into it.

Speaker: At least maybe I'm revealing a lot about myself right now, I mean, I also just watched Scary Movie 2 and you got Anna Faris singing that one song when she's driving to the house.

Speaker: And then the radio, the girl on the radio was just like, would you shut the fuck up and let me sing or whatever? So, yeah, I get where you're coming from on that. Everyone has to go full out on yeah in the car.

Speaker: Dude, you mentioned Scary Movie 2. I think it was Scary Movie 4 that I had on. Me and my girlfriend just threw it on, and I was like, oh, this could be a like fun, so bad, it's good movie, or we have a good time making fun of it.

Speaker: It was just a bummer having it on. It opens with like Charlie Sheen and a boner joke. It was so... yeah I got depressed and was like, can we actually turn this off but something put on a real movie?

Speaker: I forgot that's how that one opened too. I didn't really like part four. I like three compared to part four, but I completely forgot about that. You're right. Oh, man. So fucking that's a little foreshadowing for our eventual scary movie but season that we'll do. i' I'm not looking forward to scary movie for now. Fuck, that movie seems miserable.

Speaker: we can We can throw out a few bangers, a few really good movies that you like before we enter the world of Scary Movie. Yeah, we'll have to sandwich that one in between two really good seasons.

Speaker: Real quick, before we hop into today's movie, are there any have you watched anything good this October? Anything stand out to you? Oh, shit. I've been watching so many things right now and I forgot all of them.

Speaker: I've been watching a lot of my comfort movies like Halloween. I have been trying to watch some of the Friday the 13th movies. Right now, my bedtime movies are between Candyman and House on Haunted Hill.

Speaker: which is weird because House on Haunted Hill was bedtime movie of mine some time back. So the fact that it is again is kind of shocking me.

Speaker: I watched Clown in the Cornfield. what is it clown in the cornfield Yeah, Clown in a Cornfield or Clowns in a Cornfield. Yeah, that trippy movie, I thought it would be a lot better, but it it wasn't.

Speaker: And today I was watching House of Wax, so not like super recent films, but some some decent ones. House of Wax was a fun one growing up. That was an early horror movie for me when I was just getting into horror.

Speaker: i have a fondness for it, and I might revisit it soon. It's been brought up a couple times recently in my life, but... That movie needs more love than it gets, honestly.

Speaker: i mean Paris Hilton is in it. That's her movie. put it Put her on a shirt. Her face, it gets like stuck to grate or something like on the ground. i don't know what happened.

Speaker: She gets turned into wax. Yeah, she... Spoilers for this one her head like... Oh, shit, I just watched it, too. But, like, yeah, she gets, like, her foot kind of cut up, and then she gets, like, a spike in her head, and then the guy, like, pushes her all the way down, so she, like, hits the floor like that.

Speaker: Yeah, I mean, there are some other cool-ass actors in there. They got, like, a really cool cast, but... Even her, she didn't do a terrible job in there. She's not like the greatest actor. But yeah, that whole movie, it needs and needs some more attention.

Speaker: guys go watch House of Wax. Yes, go watch House of Wax. I haven't actually watched as many horror movies as I would have liked to so far this October. I really got to catch up.

Speaker: I got to see Sinners at a drive-in with my girlfriend in Chicago. Chicago's not the place to go to a drive-in at. There's too much light pollution, I think. Right.

Speaker: The screen was very hard to see in the dimly lit scenes of the movie, so... But it was a great experience nonetheless. And I watched Interview with the Vampire on Friday the 13th, both for the first time.

Speaker: Two movies that i think are just okay. Interview with a Vampire was a huge disappointment to me. Have you seen that one? Wait, wait. Back the fuck up. Why would you say Why? Explain yourself.

Speaker: why explain yourself I'm a big Tom Cruise fan. I think he's totally miscast in the movie, and I think Brad Pitt is actively bad in the movie. i like couldn't I was like, get this guy out of here.

Speaker: And then while I'm on it, while I'm on this Brad Pitt tear, and then I promise we'll get to the movie soon, guys. But I watched Thelma and Louise for the first time last night after the Criterion thing, because that's the movie my girlfriend had picked.

Speaker: Brad Pitt, he's in that thing. I thought he was pretty bad in that movie too. and This like and early 90s era of Brad Pitt, I'm realizing I'm not liking it. Did it take him until seven to really get some juice?

Speaker: I don't know. Wow. Well, I like Interview with a Vampire. It's a very popular movie. it's It is. it Also, it's just what I noticed too, Twilight is just a heterosexual interview with a vampire.

Speaker: Yeah, and Twilight is just heterosexual interview with a vampire. Okay, I and don't even know what to say to that, but I did remember one thing.

Speaker: The one other thing that I've been kind of watching this time or this time of year, and then we'll jump to the movie. I've been watching the show Ed Gein Netflix. I don't know if you've watched any of it yet.

Speaker: No. What is it? That sounds so familiar. Ed Gein, so you got Jax Teller from fucking Sons of Anarchy playing Ed Gein, and he was a killer from Plainfield, Wisconsin, and they but I believe they based the Texas Chainsaw Massacre off of that.

Speaker: Yeah, he is he's a fucking character in there. Yeah. my My God, he was a character. And a funny thing, too, was i had just recently got a tattoo for my mom.

Speaker: And it was a long fucking day of getting that done. But my tattoo artist, he told me, you can watch whatever you want on the TV. We have Netflix, Prime, whatever. And I'm like, all right, cool. I'm going to watch Ed Gein.

Speaker: And put it on, especially because he said he wasn't going to be talking like he was just going to like be like listening to a podcast or whatever.

Speaker: But then he kept talking a lot. So was like, damn. don't want to be rude and not talk to him, but I also want to pay attention to this fucking show. I don't even know half the shit that was going on because I couldn't pay attention.

Speaker: But then after a certain point, I'm like making a bunch of facial expressions and he was like looking at me like, are you in pain or is it the show? I'm like, no, it's the show. Or sometimes, it yes, it was pain, but a lot of times it was the show. It's a fucked up show.

Speaker: I recommend you watch it. Yeah. As I heard you breaking it down, I actually, someone in my life did like talk about this recently. That's why it rang a bell. But yeah, I i might check it out I haven't watched anything on Netflix in a while and maybe it'll gear me up for the mandatory Stranger Things, the mandatory like 15 hours of Stranger Things we're about to get in a month or Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, we got to prepare for that. Got to prepare. Yeah. my The last movie, i well, it wasn't the last, but I actually watched something in preparation for the movie we're talking about today, accidentally, Nightmare on Elm Street.

Speaker: he Yeah. And I just got to say real quick, I might watch the rest of those. I might make that my October because I've never seen past the first one. so Nice. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah, so, I mean, that's spoilers for the movie we're talking, not spoilers for the movie, but, you know, I'm spoiling the movie we're talking about if we haven't, this is coming out all wrong. I might have to delete all of it.

Speaker: It's not making any sense. Anyway, the movie adjacent to Nightmare on Elm Street movie related to Nightmare on Elm Street movie people are comparing to it.

Speaker: Black Phone 2. I mean, it took us a while to get there, but that was some solid preamble. I liked hearing everything you were talking about for your October watches. I think that's great that's great.

Speaker: Yeah, we both got like some decent watches in. We got some cool little stories to tell for October. But yeah, so now we are fully into Black Phone 2. So what were your initial thoughts on Black Phone 2?

Speaker: Tell me what you thought of this film. So this is a movie I've been wrestling with the past couple days. I saw it Thursday when it had first come out. And...

Speaker: I gotta say, so I don't like it as much as the first Black Phone. I feel like the way I'm sounding, it sounds like I don't like the movie at all. I really enjoyed the first hour, first hour 15, I'd say. The third act, of or the final act, or whatever you would want to call the last stretch of this movie...

Speaker: has a lot of things that I have issues with that kind of sour me a little bit on the movie. But all of that being said, there's so much I do really enjoy about the movie.

Speaker: I think directing-wise and visually, it's Scott Derrickson's best thing that he's done. And writing-wise, like, when it comes to the characters and character development, C. Robert Cargill did a really good job. I have issues with stories and... Or the story and decisions that were made, we'll get there. But I and enjoyed everything with the Grabber in it. I thought Ethan Hawke was great.

Speaker: I really just had a blast with him being... Everything with the Grabber, I was like, yes, yes. Like... Give me more. Let's spend more time with this guy. And i think they used him appropriately, like sparingly.

Speaker: i like Finney and Gwen, their relationship, seeing where they're at now without giving away too much detail, as well as their dad, seeing where everybody's come a couple years later.

Speaker: This movie takes place in... 1981 or 1982 from what I read on Google. The last one 1978. And the new cast, I have some complaints.

Speaker: i have some compliments. Ultimately, this movie doesn't live up to what the last movie was for me, but I'm coming out mostly positive, I'd say. But Mercedes, what were your thoughts on Black Phone 2?

Speaker: I didn't know what I was walking into when I watched this film yesterday because even though I watched the trailer a few times, I was just wondering what the hell are they going to do with this storyline now? Because the original Black Phone movie, it could have just been a one and done deal and i would have been okay with that.

Speaker: But now everyone is always trying to bust out a sequel or a franchise, whatever. So I was very, very skeptical on how I was going to perceive this film.

Speaker: But I'm still on the fence with it, too. Like, again, I saw it yesterday. I'm not going to lie. The first half of the film, i was fucking falling asleep because it was like a slow buildup.

Speaker: And then once things started to, you know, heat up a little bit, like with like Gwen's dream sequences, like that was when I was like, oh, OK, now we're finally getting somewhere.

Speaker: So, yeah, it was a slow buildup. but The rest of the film I was at least it captured my attention. Like I was I kept wondering what the hell was going to happen next.

Speaker: So i kind of like the way that they had this film take a turn. Like Finn is not even the main character anymore. It's Gwen and he's kind of like taking the backseat, which was a cool spin on it, because if they kept focusing on Finn, I think it would have been more of a dud.

Speaker: and yeah, some of the storyline, it got a little darker, for, for for, half of the film, I was just thinking, damn, I'm just watching another Nightmare on Elm Street movie or something. So,

Speaker: Yeah, i I liked it. i don't know if I like it more compared to the first one. Like I had even said I wasn't a fan of the first one just because how it made me feel.

Speaker: This one, i kind of like, I kind of don't like it. So I don't know. We'll see how I feel towards the end of our episode. I'm going to say something maybe controversial.

Speaker: I think I might like this movie more than the first Nightmare on Elm Street. I like what the Grabber is doing and the Grabber's dream sequences a bit more than Freddy... like it's this is a slippery slope that i'm walking right now and i don't i'm not ready to fully commit but nightmare on elm street maybe it's because i've like seen behind the scenes and while i do have a great appreciation for it and i love west mean i think scream is his bread and butter more so but

Speaker: I found myself kind of bored a little bit with Freddy and his antics. And the grabber, I was loving every moment that he was on screen. I was eating And so by that, I mean, Nightmare on Elm Street may have like be stronger story wise. It's got a more simple story.

Speaker: This is juggling a lot more. But I think when it comes to the horror element of it all, Black Phone 2 kind of functions more to me. And I only say this just because there the comparison, rightfully so, is happening between the two.

Speaker: And and I don't think it's a bad thing. I think this movie intentionally is paying homage to Nightmare on Elm Street. And I'm just kind of thinking like it it's doing the dream horror a bit better for me than Nightmare on Elm than the first Nightmare on Elm Street did.

Speaker: Those are like fighting words to all the Freddy fans out there. i think this isn't a foreign. I've heard other people kind of say that other entries are their favorite and the first one may not be the best.

Speaker: And I think that's kind of common in like some horror, some horror franchises. You just, develop what's going on more you develop the characters more it kind of in the way that I feel like the terrifier movies just gradually are getting better and we're not we don't like hold the first terrifier to like some special standard I think there is an improvement that could happen but I know like people might get a little mad at the Nightmare on Elm Street like that's not too much of a criticism I just found that movie a little boring to me

Speaker: I mean, i haven't watched all of them either. I'm trying to. i don't know. I don't like the cheesy, gory aspect that all the Nightmare on Elm Street movies have. like Yeah, man.

Speaker: There's like a scene with a pizza, a sausage pizza, and like all the sausages are... like victims' heads or something. so like Things like that easily grossed me out. so I haven't really ventured down that rabbit hole yet. I will, though.

Speaker: so yeah I've only seen a few of the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. I've seen I believe one, two and three, and then Freddy vs. Jason.

Speaker: But Freddy vs. Jason, i do like that film. But out of the first three, I do like the original one. But yeah, I get what you're saying about all the other like opinions on that.

Speaker: But guys, what do you think? Who did it better? Nightmare on Elm Street or the Black Phone too. Let us know. Write us in write in on our Instagram, morbid underscore curiosities underscore POD and let us know what you think.

Speaker: If I could throw out a recommendation too, I think you can watch this without having seen most of the other Nightmare on Elm Street, but Wes Craven's new Nightmare. I really, yeah really love that movie. It's a great take on horror. I think it really was priming Wes Craven for Scream and the meta commentary he would do in that.

Speaker: It's a great movie if people haven't checked it out, but... I know we've just went off the rails. Sorry for doing that to the podcast. But spoilers ahead for Blackphone 2, guys. We're going to be diving right into the nitty gritty of it all.

Speaker: Mercedes, you you had mentioned that you found the beginning to be a little slow. i I agree with that. I found that to be more of a feature for me. I really i like the moment Finny is sitting there. He's smoking weed, and the grabber is like standing there doing this weird pose.

Speaker: I was like, that might not work for a lot of people. I could see that being a rough start for some people, but it really... worked for me. I thought that if this movie was going to go for some kind of artsy approach like that and do weird things, i was on board from the beginning, but the slow pacing, it worked for me.

Speaker: I at least like that they were showing Finney, you know, he was expressing himself. Well, not really expressing himself, but he was coping with all the like fucking trauma that he had dealt with before with getting abducted by the grabber in some type of way. Like,

Speaker: Everyone was, you know, asking them or like just making all these rude ass comments like, oh, you couldn't have been the one to like kill the grabber or whatever. And then his sister Gwen is over here thinking like, you're not even dealing with it at all. You're just, you know, smoking, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker: But it's like, well, that is his way of coping because, you know, he... obviously is affected by it but like at the ending of the first film it made it seem like he wasn't affected at all like he went back to school he was listening to all everyone like kind of whisper about him but then once he got to the classroom and he sat next to the girl that he likes he just like confidently told her oh yeah call me finny whatever

Speaker: But in here, he's a full on bully and quoting his friend Robin after beating the shit out of some new kid or whatever. So that was like a little twist that I wasn't expecting. But I'm just thinking, OK, cool. You know, he's standing up for himself.

Speaker: Probably not in the best way possible, but he is. So, again, I'm wondering, all right, when are we going to get to the part where he's in the phone booth talking to the grabber? Because that was the main thing that was advertised in all the trailers.

Speaker: But then it slowly starts to, like, shift the focus onto Gwen, which I wasn't expecting. so to kind of like have the prime focus be on her and kind of like her discovering what happened and with like their family and how it ties into the grabber It was a lot to take It was kind of like a slow burn to like build up to everything. so

Speaker: I could kind of like it now, but it's still, I don't know. I think they could have taken out a few extra parts in there just to start getting it going quicker.

Speaker: Well, so you mentioned Finny being bully at the... Or more of a bully at the beginning of this. I i bought that character development. i What I don't buy is the ending of Black Phone 1. I feel like that is less realistic. Him being more of a bully.

Speaker: Him... He is basically, he survived off of Robin's mentality, like the lesson Robin taught him, and that's the person he decides to become going forward. I'm just going to make this my whole personality in order to survive, and I'm going to smoke weed so I can separate from what happened to me, separate myself. And...

Speaker: i I bought where he's at as a character, and I do agree with you, actually. Gwen being more of the focus. The movie needs that. Gwen is the more interesting character in the first one, I think.

Speaker: Finney is a good person to center the movie around. He's a good audience surrogate for the first movie, but I think Gwen ends up, but she's the one you walk away talking about more.

Speaker: And this movie, in some ways, does really good by, okay, we should give the sequel more Gwen. There's other areas in this movie where they decide to do more and like more of the same.

Speaker: And I don't really like it. Like the kids writing in ice as they're floating up and Gwen seeing that. I don't really like that. Just this abstract vision, the kids floating up and writing the numbers there. It seems like they're doing that just because in the first one, the kid etched his lock combination into the wall.

Speaker: But the kid was alive when he did that. The point in the first movie was Finney was finding things that the kids did when they were alive. And it the dynamic with the kids and how they interact with the kids and the kit role the kids play, the deceased kids...

Speaker: I mean, is a little different and seems maybe misunderstood. Maybe it's different because we're getting it more from Gwen's perspective.

Speaker: But there are some elements of the kids and how they functioned and the logic behind them that didn't fully work for me. While I still did love everything Gwen was doing and her whole involvement with that and her dreams and seeing the kids murders, the more of that, yes, that's awesome. But yeah, there's other areas where the more of this thing just seemed misguided, if that's what their intention was, or like it just seemed a little wrong-headed.

Speaker: Yeah, and to me, that's kind of like how i was viewing the beginning or the first half of this film because i didn't know what direction they were trying to go into because, yeah, they are, you know, calling attention to how Finney is dealing with everything and how he has developed as a person.

Speaker: And then they are talking about or you see this new character, Ernesto, who is Robin's little brother, apparently, who is actually played by the same actor, which I thought was pretty cool. Oh, he is?

Speaker: yeah i didn't know that until yeah i watched a review on it today and they were like oh yeah spoiler alert or not spoiler alert but i just found out before making this video uh kudos to cody leach that the kid who played ernesto is actually the same kid who played robin and i thought that was such a cool touch because i didn't fucking know that I didn't know that either. I felt like... i mean, wow.

Speaker: Good. I like his performance in this a little more now. And now that I can compare the two, oddly enough, to begin with, I liked this kid's performance. I mean, I compared...

Speaker: but I was kind of comparing all of the kids' performance. I don't really like most of the kids in this movie who aren't Finny and Gwen, actually. i don't really love the performances they're turning in, and I feel really bad for saying that.

Speaker: And I like Miguel Mora's performance more in this movie, especially now that you told me that. But... He still falls in the category of kid that i'm I'm just not loving where I'm like, okay, hopefully they're not in it that much.

Speaker: Yeah, I agree on that. But yeah, you kind of see a little bit of, you know, a love interest between them two. You know, he's inviting Gwen to go to a Duran Duran concert.

Speaker: And Finney's even saying, you know, you you know, that's a date, right? And she was just oblivious to it. He ends up like hinting to her later at the library not so that, you know, he likes her.

Speaker: then you go back to Finn, and you know what, how you were describing him smoking and him like seeing the, the grabber and the bushes in the middle of the night, like all those little things that were happening. It's like, what the fuck is going on here? And then they start talking about a camp and how they should apply to be, uh, camp counselors and training. Yeah.

Speaker: They get to the camp a little later because Gwen receives a phone call from the mom in the the basement of the original movie. Right, right. That's how they get the idea of going to the camp because the movie begins with the mom phone car on the phone. Yeah, and we've learned later that's Gwen on the other end, and then we see Gwen having that phone call in the basement of the original house, and she says her name, and Gwen Finny wakes her up because she's been sleepwalking. That's a new thing, I think. I don't think she was sleepwalking in the last movie.

Speaker: No. Sidebar, the editing of the sleepwalking and the dreams in general shot on the Super 8 camera with like a vinyl... Sound playing and when she's sleepwalking and transitioning from sleepwalking to waking up and it you see it's like a film reel burns and the it's like someone taking the needle off a vinyl record and the camera just goes back to normal.

Speaker: It's it's awesome. It's so well done. Scott Derrickson is getting way better at this. And it's just we'll get into the idea of a black phone three later. But man, if yeah if you're doing a black phone three, man, you got to take this stuff out.

Speaker: To a third level as well. This fucking. Found footage super 8 camera style. You're doing. because you're You keep getting better at it. With every movie.

Speaker: but yeah so Finny wakes her up. and then it was like Mom called me. and Was talking about three boys. Who were murdered at this camp. Then they look up at the camp. It's local because.

Speaker: The mom was calling without an area code. and so Yeah, the phone number being so etched in ice too. the dead kids did that. I didn't fully understand that and they don't get into that.

Speaker: I know I just talked a lot. I'm sorry. But yeah, but I just wanted to connect that bridge. No, thank you for bringing that up because I did want to talk about like Gwen's dream sequences because I do like how you see it in the Super 8 film setting. You don't have...

Speaker: have anyone or her just explaining all these dreams that she's having or just going in more depth with them you just see like the screen cut to that film style I guess or lens I should say and it's like okay we know we're not like in our reality like something's going on now and I just thought like damn are we gonna relive Sinister like what's going on here but Yeah, just having Gwen have those little dream sequences.

Speaker: It was cool to like follow those. And I thought it was a little shitty because she ends up back at that fucking house, at the Grabber's house, and...

Speaker: Finn, he had already caught her sleepwalking once and she was like by the front door and he was saying, you know, you're really cold right now.

Speaker: So I'm thinking, OK, she was probably standing there for a long ass time before he found her. And now she reached this guy's house and was in the fucking basement that he was in.

Speaker: and he didn't really like bat an eye like he didn't like. have like any type of like yeah ptsd there he was just like come on let's go and my girlfriend said the same thing when we were watching it in the theater that's the first thing she said how is he okay with being down here after the events of the first movie And we find out later he's not okay.

Speaker: And I immediately, even though I really like the scene where he admits to not being okay, did make me think, how you were so fine in that fucking basement earlier a couple days ago.

Speaker: Maybe he was high off his ass when he went down there and like it wasn't fully hitting him. He looks at the grabber burns in hell and stares at that. And then he has a reaction. That's the most we really get.

Speaker: True, yeah. So, yeah, I thought that was strange. And then the whole thing with, like, Gwen seeing all the the dead children, yeah they're floating up in the ice and they are you know carving a letter in the ice. It's like, okay, well, that's kind of cool in theory, but just that being executed, it's like...

Speaker: I don't know. It didn't really work for me because it was, you know, a way of the dead communicating with her through her dreams. Like it wasn't like something that happened. It feels like it needs to be the kids left behind some evidence that it was this guy before they died.

Speaker: And that's how they're able to connect it to the grabber. It's really kind of stretch, I feel like. i mean, they do get you there pretty quick because they hold up a yearbook photo and Finney's like, that's Ethan Hawke right there, circa 1990 or whatever.

Speaker: And that was the before Trilla, before Sunrise. That was the movie we pulled that still from. it was It looked like it was a headshot. They opted on to a photo of a dude with long hair.

Speaker: But it is just a little bit of a leap that this movie is asking you to take when it comes to some of the supernatural stuff and the their need to explain why things need to happen that that I'm just not really taking with them.

Speaker: Yeah, because once Gwen brings up like, oh, yeah, our mom used to be or went to the the camp or used to be a counselor there or however it was, it's like, OK, are we talking about the mom now? Like, I thought we were focusing on you two or just focusing on one of you.

Speaker: i I like the mom stuff. I like the telephone and the communicating almost through time type of element. That's really cool. The stuff that's centered around Gwen and her supernatural ability and the link to the mom, I really like.

Speaker: I think that's a good way. That's how you do a sequel. You you tie it back to the mom in some way. You really make... Like you, you give the audience more of a reason to become emotionally invested.

Speaker: You get the dad sober. We, you know, I'll just like throw that out there real quick, but it's, it's the stuff with the, the kids where this movie really loses me. And I feel like it doesn't understand the rules that the first movie set up for itself.

Speaker: Well, I mean, that's the thing too, because at the end, the very end, i loved how, you know, it was the mom and Gwen having a connection with each other.

Speaker: And, you know, Gwen is more so, well, I'll get to that part later, But yeah, I love that part. But leading up to it, it's like, what the hell? We didn't even get this much like focus on the mom from the first one. you know, we they like hinted at it like that Gwen and the mom just like have like these trippy dreams where they can see or they have visions But you get like the tiniest glimpse of the dad in this film. Yes, he is sober, but he doesn't even play a part in here which I don't know. I feel like or I wish he kind of had a bigger part. That way he could have at least redeemed himself for being such a shithole in the first one.

Speaker: Yeah, i I don't know. the All of that, like how all of a sudden it was focusing on a little bit of the mom was kind of bugging me because, again, I was still trying to figure out like what lane they're trying to stay in here for this film.

Speaker: But like once they get to the camp and like things start to you know unfold a little bit more, that's when it started grabbing my attention. Sorry. No, I get you. And I mean, the stuff with the mom and the dad, Finny and Gwen's mom and dad. Yeah, I got to say, just especially carrying over from movie one to movie two really worked for me. I didn't expect this movie to have any mom stuff at all. I kind of was just like, OK, the mom's dreams were misunderstood and she was written off as crazy.

Speaker: And that's deeply sad sad. This movie makes the first movie just a little less sad because now there is this connection. There's this closure that they have. The mom wasn't just someone who was misunderstood and killed herself, even though I don't love the explanation for the mom's death that this movie does. And we'll get there. It's a part of the last act.

Speaker: they like The last act had the power to make me almost cry at times, and it is also one of the worst, filled with some of the worst moments in the movie.

Speaker: It's wild to me, the drastic shifts I feel watching that last act, but it's... the The dad, too, getting so... I found the dad to be fully redeemed. you know he Whatever his redemption was that happened offscreen, and I'm kind of okay with it. you know Maybe i could have used more Dickie Bennett in this thing.

Speaker: i i like I didn't know what I wanted out of him going in, but I said to my girlfriend while we were watching it, I turned to her and said... It's so nice to see that he's sober and has kind of got his shit together and he cares. And when Finny and Gwen leave and he's like, oh, you know, just have the whole house to myself.

Speaker: He seems genuinely bummed that they're not going to be around anymore. And I was just happy that it's like, OK, he was able to get there and maybe he still has some work to do. But it felt really uplifting to see where the dad was.

Speaker: I don't know. i could have had a little more from him just because he was just like the tiniest side character in here.

Speaker: And then once they're at the camp, we're introduced to a few other characters This guy Mondo, I kind of want to shout this guy out. He's played by Damien Bakir, i think is how you pronounce it.

Speaker: This guy, just any... When I saw him pop up, I don't know if you've seen the Hateful Eight Mercedes. Have you seen that? The Quentin Tarantino movie? where That's a movie that takes place at a Snowden cabin.

Speaker: So when I saw this guy pop up, I was like, keep fucking... Senor Bob or whatever his name is out of here. Senor Bob is his name in the hateful light, I think. But I was like, no, this is no good. he shouldn't be at a snowy cabin ever I have not seen that. I should watch it.

Speaker: But I like his character in here. He's pretty cool. You also have this girl, Mustang, and this oddly religious couple, Kenneth and Barbara.

Speaker: Mainly Barbara, who is like that. But yeah, you you just see how these three, it's Gwen, Finney, and Ernesto. They are the only ones who are applying to be camp counselors in training and you do see you know there's a split with their bunkers like Gwen has to sleep in the female cabin the boys have to sleep in the other one but Gwen does sneak over there since she keeps having all these dream sequences and

Speaker: I did like this part, though, because she ends up sleeping in the same, well, tries to sleep in the same bed with Ernesto. And she's trying to pray to Jesus again, which I thought was cool because it's like, all right, she still, she has some faith left in her.

Speaker: and even though she's going through all this weird shit like she is still praying and just the interesting conversation that her and ernesto have at that moment it was some it it was just it threw me off a little bit yeah he's like you your jesus talk gets me all worked up baby Right, exactly. Yeah, my audience was laughing.

Speaker: Yeah, I was like trying to hold my laughter in because no one laughed in the fucking theater. I was like, well, fuck you guys. But it was funny because then you got a part where he says like, you know, you're beautiful and you hear Finn on the other end of the room like,

Speaker: what about me? Do you think I'm beautiful? i'm like, oh my God, that is so embarrassing. And then you got Flynn, the Flynn, Gwen's lovely vocabulary, like going off on Finny, like you were listening or you were up this whole time. Like I love that they were able to still slip in some humor with her and how she talks, but for it to be smooth and not feel forced in this fucking dark ass film.

Speaker: you feel So I felt like they had her like swearing and being a foul mouth a little too much in this. That that was one of those things where I'm like, yeah yeah, it feels like they knew that that killed in the first one and they just did it a little too much in this one.

Speaker: There's like a rule of three and I feel like they hit that number three a couple of times where I was like, okay It's not as funny the third time, you know? Yeah, some of the parts I was like, okay, she could have dialed it back on like some of these things because, yeah, I agree. they Everyone loved her with how she was like talking in the first one, but I also feel like that is because she's saying all this shit as a kid.

Speaker: So for her to say it as a teenager, okay, we get it. All teenagers talk like that. fucking shit all the time and I swear a bunch so maybe that's why it didn't faze me as much but yeah a few of the things she said it could have like gone without but yeah I mean at least it still shows that she's true to her weird little self and didn't change True.

Speaker: And I guess part of me was thinking, like, okay, maybe that is that annoying thing where as a teenager you swear too much, and maybe she's just gotten to that point, so it's supposed to be a little too much. That was kind of a thought I had while watching it,

Speaker: before she ends up in bed with Ernesto she I think she has like another dream sequence and this is when Finney is in the phone booth for the first time all right right and this is where we like really see Ethan Hawke for the first time we see the grabber and he I think is doing his his whole spiel do you want to know what I'm gonna take from you do you and There are points where we're in Gwen's dream and we're only hearing Ethan Hawke's side of things.

Speaker: And then it will cut to the phone booth and we're getting the full conversation and you're seeing Ethan Hawke in the mask. And I love how there's a point where he's yelling. about how his brother got killed by Finney and all of this, and you could barely understand what he's saying under the mask. that's That's a choice that some filmmakers make, and I really like that choice where, yeah, because they're wearing a mask, and it would work a little better with subtitles, but I do like the idea of obscuring the dialogue while he's yelling, and it makes it

Speaker: Kind of a bit more clear that, yeah, that is Ethan Hawke under that mask. I'm pretty sure, aside from some of the crazier stunt stuff, it seems like that is Ethan Hawke and his physicality.

Speaker: Like when he's like doing the weird sideways movement with the fucking axe as he's approaching Gwen at one point. It's like this feels like how Ethan Hawke moves.

Speaker: Yeah, i like how they had that scene play out where Finney's finally in the pay phone and or the phone booth and the grabber is talking to him. I didn't like that it took that long for the grabber to fucking appear.

Speaker: But, yeah that whole conversation, it was escalating at a good pace, too. And, yeah, some of the stuff, I couldn't understand what he was saying. But it's like, well, he is he's dead. you know, his face is probably fucked up, too. And, like, that fucking mess that he looked very, like, corroded and disgusting. so for them to just kind of like muffle up his words I did like but yeah the fact that he said you know you made me kill my brother liked that he said that because you're kind of like getting the hint like okay well he's probably gonna do like an eye for an eye here like oh you made me kill my brother so now I'm gonna kill your sister

Speaker: And just like that's so fucked up to think about because Gwen had nothing to do with this shit. And now she's all she saw like all the stuff that was happening before.

Speaker: and now she's pretty much living it in her nightmare on Elm Street dream sequences she has. Yeah, and she arguably has it way worse than Finny did. The shit that happens to her is crazy.

Speaker: But i do I do enjoy his logic of, I'm gonna go after your sister, and that speech that he delivers to Finny, i Really, I enjoyed all of it. That's when I was pumping my fist in the air.

Speaker: Finney should have pieced it together a bit faster that he was going to go after Gwen the whole time. i'm like, dude, it's fucking obvious. Are you stupid, man? Like, fucking think. How many years have passed? You can't, like, piece it together? What if he goes after Gwen?

Speaker: And I don't fully share your feelings on the you wish the grabber showed up earlier, but I do kind of wish that there was more of when Finney saw, i mentioned this before, the grabber standing in the dark outside when he's smoking a joint.

Speaker: You know, give me some shots of Finny looking off into the empty snow and the grabber standing there by the woods or something. Give me some creepy imagery like that, that you could fucking hang on your wall or something and get scared of it every time. Yeah.

Speaker: I could have used more of that leading up to Ethan Hawke actually speaking, because by the time it's the grabber and he's speaking, I'm like, yes, yes, yes. This is like what we've been waiting for.

Speaker: And every time Ethan Hawke was on screen, I was eating this movie up. he His grabber fully works for me, especially in this one. Exactly. And I wanted to see more of that. Like, even if we had at least one more scene where, like, you're saying, oh, let's see him, like, peeking out of the woods or something of the sort.

Speaker: If we had that anywhere else in here where Finny was, like, hallucinating him, then... then I don't know him revealing later, like, yeah, it's all I think about, which, yes, we all knew that's probably all he thought about.

Speaker: But it would have been a little more believable for him to say that, you know, this is all the shit that he's been enduring and the grabber still, like, pretty much haunts him.

Speaker: But we only see one time where that happened. So once, yes, they did bring in Ethan Hawke, I was like, cool, where are we going next with this? But that fucking part, once he, like,

Speaker: is really going into Freddy mode and fucking with Gwen, that blew my damn mind. What did you think of that scene? That scene is great. i It's the best part of the movie, I think, when he first approaches Gwen and he's got the axe and, like I said, he's doing that weird movement, and it seems like he's really drawing out how he's going to kill her.

Speaker: And then other people walk in and you're getting to see what it's like from their perspective and not seeing the grabber there. And it looks like some crazy possession shit, like from the exorcist or something. Gwen's body spinning around the grabbers trying to throw her into some type of like oven fire thing. That's fucking insane.

Speaker: He's trying to cremate her basically and Barbara and Mustang are all just watching this and can barely do anything and every time we're cutting into the dream sequence and you're seeing the grabber it's so terrifying.

Speaker: it was so cool to watch because you know she's in her dream and then you're slowly seeing like wait she's really getting fucked up here like you see her like getting hurt like i think she had already showed finny like that her hand was or her arm was like banged up from the dream prior but like Yeah, one of the kids touched her. it was the oven kid, I think, touched her arm and burnt her. yeah Yeah, exactly. So she already showed that, and it's like, all right, now she's really getting fucked up.

Speaker: And there are people who are witnessing it where she's fucking levitating in the air. She's being choked against like a cabinet or whatever. And yeah, she's about to get cremated, essentially, in this fucking fiery-ass oven.

Speaker: And yeah, it's like, why isn't anyone trying to help her until the very last fucking minute? But yeah, seeing that whole thing, you're like, shit, poor Gwen. She definitely had it lot worse than Finny because...

Speaker: Finny was only hit by the grabber like once or twice, and that was when he was abducting him each time. She's full-on getting like tortured by this guy, and it's in her sleep too. so There was even a part of me that was thinking, like...

Speaker: Why doesn't she try to fight back or kind of like tell herself like I'm dreaming. But like towards the end where Finney's telling her like i you're going to have to fight back on this.

Speaker: It's like oh well yeah she probably didn't think about that because you know who the fuck anticipates this happening to them. Like no one can really plan for that.

Speaker: And if we're going by a lot of dream logic, she might not be able to tell when she's in a dream at first or for the most part. And this all seems relatively new to her.

Speaker: and It seems like we're coming in right at the start of all of this weird dreaming. So, I mean, there's a point where she's breaking down crying and is like, what's wrong with me? i feel like I'm going crazy.

Speaker: So well acted. This actress has stepped it up, I think, from movie one to movie two, Madeline McGraw. But yeah, I think it might just be operating on dream logic. it Like, you know, some people can't really tell that they're, if they're in a dream or not.

Speaker: basically, like, all of this leads... Like, I think immediately after this, we have the first scene where I'm like, okay, I'm not liking what this movie's doing right now, how it's handling everything.

Speaker: i want to say Mondo gets everybody together in this church area, and this is where we talked about the yearbook photo and Finney placing that the grabber went there.

Speaker: There's a whole moment where fucking Gwen is putting it together. and I just don't like just any of this exposition and this giving character motivation.

Speaker: it didn't work for me. Gwen starts saying that... So the kids the idea is that the kids can't rest because they were their bodies haven't been properly buried.

Speaker: They've been disposed of in this frozen lake thing. So they're not able to rest. There's a point where the kids tell Finny, we're not supposed to be here.

Speaker: i took It took me a while to kind of get what that line meant. But I want to say that is that line is explaining that the kids, that they're not supposed to be where their bodies are disposed of. So that that's why they are currently in this like weird ghost state almost of they're not quite in the afterlife And so and Finney never tells Gwen that.

Speaker: But Gwen ends up being the one who comes to the decision that the kids are the ones who cannot rest. And the grabber is able to come back because the kids aren't resting and he's feeding on the fear of the unrested kids.

Speaker: Now, while all of that is like cool, if that's how you want to explain everything, that's awesome. I don't think this movie did it elegantly at all. I didn't like that it was all...

Speaker: In this one scene where Gwen just lays it all out and she somehow knows this is what's happening. If that's the logic, cool. But Gwen shouldn't just know this stuff. These people should not just know how the other world operates.

Speaker: and how Ethan Hawke is there, like how the grabber's back and what's going on with the kids. They should not be in the know. Ethan Hawke at one point has an ax to Gwen. He was like, if you die in this world, do you die in the real world?

Speaker: i don't know, but let's find out. And I'm like, yeah, that's the approach. I mean, this is a character that's actually in the ghost world, and he doesn't know how the rules work and the logic of it all.

Speaker: the It all should be more of a question mark. And I like the movie when it is a question mark. And right when we get to this exposition moment, it starts to lose me because we have all of this explaining. and We have this weird mission that...

Speaker: it's like Yeah, if you want to find the kids' bodies, that's cool. If that's Mondo's objective, find the kids' bodies. That's cool. Set that up and then deal with the grabber. Have that be a Finney and Gwen thing. But just the way it's all laid out and the way they get to the end...

Speaker: by this being the task that they have to do just didn't really work for me at all. It's a big leap that I could not take with this movie, unfortunately.

Speaker: Yeah, and that's how I felt because how she was piecing everything together while they were in the church and, you know, all of a sudden she figured out like, oh, this is what the kids are like writing out in the ice. They are writing out the grabber's actual name. Then they find out, oh, he it was at that camp. Okay, he's also the grabber and Finney's the one that killed him and then Yeah, how all of it was just coming together in that scene.

Speaker: It did not feel like organic at all. And then I'm jumping ahead to this scene just because it's relevant when...

Speaker: uh Gwen is trying to it's at the towards the ending where the dad he appears at the camp because he's trying to take the the Finney and Gwen home she is explaining everything to them and talking about like okay well Finney you're not even dealing with the grief that you have you are acting just like dad how he was a drunk You're just using a pot and doing the same exact thing.

Speaker: And then she wants to like just go just keep attacking them essentially. But then she starts telling them like, yeah, you know, our mom didn't kill herself. It was the grabber. She had like a vision where one of the kids were. She found him. He found out that she found him.

Speaker: And you know he like pretty much set it up to where he made it look like the mom killed herself and then their dad found her.

Speaker: Even that whole conversation, one, it dragged out way too fucking long. And two, it just did not sound natural at all for her to just explain all of that.

Speaker: And then them two just like standing there, I don't know, it just... It seemed weird. I did not like how that was executed at all. Yeah, I like Finney's emotional moment that he gets there. It got me pretty emotional where he's like, nobody knows what I went through down there. I'm paraphrasing. I don't have the exact quote.

Speaker: But and he was like, I was so scared that like hit me. My breath was almost taken away. I was like, oh like that's real. That feels real. But all of the exposition dumps with Gwen don't work for me.

Speaker: There's also, i want to talk about the the mom's suicide, but I also want to just quickly mention another thing I don't like. And it's like the worst grabber moment next to the mom's suicide.

Speaker: But Mondo, when he is communicating with the grabber over the radio and he's calling him like Billy Bob Thornton or whatever the fuck his name was, Wild Buffalo Bill...

Speaker: something wbh i don't know yeah it's something weird that i didn't love but he's talking to him and then the grabber's like my name's not bill that didn't work for me and then it goes to the mom's suicide i want to say it's three scenes back to back where i was like oh man this is not working and the mom waking up and being like buffalo bill or whatever his name is. And, you know, I like the idea of maybe the mom found the first kid who was kidnapped in the neighborhood.

Speaker: That's cool. I don't like the idea of the grabber grabbing the mom, putting her in the van, driving the van to their house, getting inside the house with the van sitting there, nobody waking up.

Speaker: hanging the mom, it's like, unless he probably killed her and then hung her dead body, that would make more sense. Like snapped her neck and then hung her dead body or something. But it was just such a stretch for me that I was not that willing to take. And then the movie gets better. We can really dive into the action a lot before we got to wrap up. But yeah, that those three scenes back to back didn't work for me.

Speaker: Yeah, I didn't like that either because the fact that, okay, well, with the mom having these visions and being able to, you know, link everything together, i did like.

Speaker: So I was able to at least buy, okay, she found out the grabber took this kid and now he knows that she's onto him. So he gets rid of her and now she's you know everyone just like assumed okay she killed herself because she couldn't take her dreams anymore that that was a fucked up scene because it's like okay damn no one even knows her story and now there's like so much to reveal with that

Speaker: I did like it, but with like how everything you said, everything going back to back, it's like, okay, they're trying to force all this information in there and kind of like explain things in weird ways that just didn't work well.

Speaker: It's retconning that yeah I didn't really expect to... I didn't expect them to retcon this in the way that they did. Yeah, exactly. So i don't i don't know. like Again, it was a part where they were just like forcing too much into a tiny bit of a few minutes that they had.

Speaker: So yeah, once they start putting the pieces together, they're all trying to search like this frozen lake for all the missing dead kids.

Speaker: And That was fucking terrifying alone to watch when they would just, like, get rid of all the snow, like, move away all the snow aside. I thought it was really cool.

Speaker: Yeah, like, you could see all the way down in the fucking water. It's like, damn, it's that clear. That is so fucked up. And then once, like, they do start seeing, like, you know, the...

Speaker: They're like barrels barrels. Yeah, that one of the boys was like sunken in. It's like, holy fuck, you see his hand. It's obviously all decomposed and everything. But fuck, they're about to start finding them. And I'm thinking they're all going to be in the same spot. But that wouldn't make any sense.

Speaker: Yeah, so little by little, they're trying to figure out like, okay, where where's the next body? And they they're literally searching from sunrise to sunset.

Speaker: and you would think these people would try their fucking hardest to make sure Gwen does not fall asleep again. But she falls asleep again. And that's when she's like seeing the grabber and...

Speaker: or she Is this the part where she goes like in the water and herself? There's like two dream sequences that happen around the ending, but I want to say this is the one where she goes, because the dad's there. They're about to, he's helping Barbara and everybody. They wake Barbara up.

Speaker: Mustang lectures her about not being Christian enough. I do kind of like that there's, Or like not being the right kind of Christian. Like I do like that. There's a little bit of that in the movie, like looking down on people who look down like the Christians who have this holier than thou attitude.

Speaker: Real quick, before we jump jumped back to the ice skating thing, I wanted to say one last thing about that mom suicide scene. I liked Ethan Hawke in the car with Gwen and like their conversation. it's I didn't want to make it seem like I fully hated everything with the grabber there. It was the flashback stuff I didn't fully like.

Speaker: The ice skating rink. Yeah, this is where Gwen is in the water and she helps the dad carry one of the barrels up because he ends up in the water at a certain point. But yeah, this whole scene, like I want to say Gwen takes sleeping pills and They like imply that she did something in order to assure that she would fall asleep at this event.

Speaker: And the grabber is just going buck wild. They established that he was a really good ice skater. I thought, like okay, that was not a bad detail. like This weirdo has like a cool trait like that.

Speaker: But he yeah, it's just ice skating all over the place. He goes behind Mondo and like is smashing the ice behind him at one point.

Speaker: I think I might be combining two separate scenes in this movie. I think there's two separate grabber ice attacks, but I know we're low on time so we can kind of talk about them as a whole if we want to.

Speaker: But yeah, I loved everything about the Grabber going buck wild on this ice and just fucking all this shit up and being an invisible terror. I heard three c film, I was watching a little bit of him and heard him complain that the Grabber isn't going around and killing people a bunch in this movie and this scene in particular. And I kind of...

Speaker: I get why you would want him to kill more people. A lot of the deaths that happen in this movie take place in the past. We don't really see any present day deaths. None of our characters end up being in any real danger. Nobody dies in present day.

Speaker: But... I just don't think the Grabber would have motivation to go after anybody but Gwen. And he's just a vengeful spirit. And i don't get the idea that vengeful spirits are serial killing monsters. I was like, okay, I buy that he is targeting Gwen and Finny.

Speaker: Yeah, I mean, he does like show so much of a brutal side that he has because yeah in one sequence, you see Mondo out there by himself, and I think he finds one of the barrels, and he's trying to pull it up, but like The grabber is there behind him while Mondo is like trying to break the ice.

Speaker: Simultaneously, the grabber is breaking the ice behind him so he could fall into the water and drown and die, too. So it's like, OK, that part, that's pretty fucked up. And then once they are all there and Gwen falls asleep and he's skating around doing his thing, like he's dragging the fucking religious guy like across the ice all fucked up. Everyone can witness that.

Speaker: He even like whacks the head of the one religious woman who. Barbara, he like cuts Barbara and that guy's head in like one swipe. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, I wish they would have died. like We could have gone with a few extra murders there.

Speaker: byhood of it would have felt unnecessary to me, I feel like. At the end of the day, and like it would have just been for spectacle. I mean, they were kind of shitty, more so Barbara. So if she would have gone would it have been a terrible loss?

Speaker: I don't think so. I don't know what their solution is. I just really... i i didn't think of that even until I watched that 3C film thing. And not to like throw shade at that dude. I know I've disagreed with him before on the podcast.

Speaker: But... just I don't think I would have really but bought it, but I didn't it didn't register to me. I didn't even think for a second. Oh, he's not killing people or there isn't carnage happening here.

Speaker: Him targeting Gwen was enough for me in this movie. I mean, but they do show what he did in the past. So to me, that was showing the grabber killing people. Like even the first murder scene where they show him attacking the boy in the woods and he's like stabbing him repeatedly.

Speaker: that fucking made me feel so damn sad seeing that. He like guts one of them He dismembered another one. he like slices one's face.

Speaker: It's very upsetting. You don't. It's more upsetting than the first one, I'd say. Yeah, like the first one, you kind of have to let your imagination run with it because you see the boys about to be abducted and then you see the aftermath of how they look as dead children.

Speaker: Whereas here, they're showing what happened to these kids before they were thrown into the lake. So they're... i I was trying to watch some of his review too and I didn't get to that part. But yeah, I i don't agree with that. like I think there was a good amount of mountain of the grabber like showing off like his kill skills here.

Speaker: But i just wish there was maybe a little bit more of the grabber. Didn't even have to be him killing because of how the whole final act plays out. And you know what?

Speaker: i I don't blame you. But the final act, though, is so loaded with him. And I love seeing him in Super 8 and the cutting to him not being there.

Speaker: i love him taking off the mask. The point before he dies, Gwen takes off the mask and his face is all fucked up. One of my biggest complaints of the movie, this...

Speaker: I feel like Gwen should have delivered the final blow. I feel like it was wrong to have Finney deliver the final blow. It just, why take that? away from her. You know, there was, I think, Dragon Ball Z. There was like a Frieza movie where Vegeta has a chance to kill Frieza. Then they redo the events and Goku comes in real quick and kills Frieza. And I'm like, you just had to rob Vegeta like that just so Goku could get the kill.

Speaker: And I felt like, okay, yeah, Finny did it in the first one, man. This was Gwen's movie. It felt so wrong giving Finny the final kill. I agree with that 100% because this was all focused on Gwen and you have everything happening to her in every dream sequence that she had.

Speaker: And she was pretty much tortured a hell of a lot more than Finny. And yes, you have Finny killing the Grabber in real life. Let her kill him in his afterlife limbo type of deal that he's dealing with.

Speaker: It was cool that they were tag teaming each other. But yeah, Finny could have even passed the torch onto her and be like, no, this is all you or some corny shit like that.

Speaker: Yeah, i they do show Ethan Hawke in here a lot, and you see him go crazy at the end, which I did love. I kind of like how... I didn't really like how part of the dream Gwen is finding all of the kids, and she's like pushing the barrels up to the surface.

Speaker: That part, I don't know. I thought that was a little strange, but once... the Where she was like, no, I brought help to help kill the grabber. He sees all three of the kids just standing there.

Speaker: And I love how Scott Derrickson does that for these films. He always brings the kids in unison right there just to fucking like... show that they're all working together either for a good reason or a bad reason so that scene i did like but yeah them just like not giving gwen that justifiable bang at the end that's kind of a letdown yeah i i fully yeah i'm right there too

Speaker: But yeah, the grabber, he gets killed. Gwen does get to cut off his leg, I think, because one of the kids was his skeletal body was holding him down. And then the grabber gets dragged to the bottom of the icy lake or whatever you would call that, whatever body of water that is.

Speaker: You know, the movie feels pretty final to me. It doesn't seem like it needs a sequel. Gwen seems like she's going to go off and be with Miguel. And, you know, we end on a moment with the dad and Finny sitting in the car talking together.

Speaker: i was the Again, it feels very final. I don't think it's screaming for a Black Phone 3. If Scott Derrickson and C. Robert Cargill have something in mind, I'll be there for it. I'm there for more grabber. If it's a story that they feel like they need to tell and can go like push all of this forward like they did with this one,

Speaker: I'm there for it. I don't really know what you do to keep the grabber around. I was trying to think like maybe this one was Nightmare on Elm Street. Maybe the next one is Friday the 13th and the grabber. Those kids couldn't rest when they were buried at that lake. I know that's not the grabber's physical body, but maybe his soul is down there.

Speaker: Maybe this camp is haunted forever by the grabber or something. And three is almost a Camp Crystal Lake style type of thing. I don't know. That doesn't sound crazy interesting. I'd like to see them do something different like they did with this one. Like do a third movie that's different and pushing things forward if you're going to do it.

Speaker: But this one doesn't end in a way that really seems like it's calling for a third movie. Yeah, I mean, the first one could have been, again, fine on its own, but we have this one, and I know a lot of people, they might like this a lot more than the first one or vice versa. People love this on my Letterboxd. Really? seeing so much love. I was surprised. People love this more than me, and I thought I was going to be the one loving it more than others.

Speaker: Yeah, it's, I don't know. I like it. Maybe I like it a little bit more than the first one just because of how upsetting I thought the first one was. But this one's lot darker because they are full on showing like what happens to the kids.

Speaker: And then you see like Gwen getting like really fucked up in this. So... so I don't know. I think I do kind of like it a little bit more, but I still have a lot of like negative things to say about it. There's a lot of faults that this film still has.

Speaker: But the one thing that I did really like at the end that I wanted to call attention to was You know, Gwen Finney, they're getting ready to leave the camp, but the phone booth that they pass by, it rings.

Speaker: And she's like, oh, do you hear that? And he said, no. So it must be for you. Because you do see in the beginning, the phone rang like at like a little convenience store that Finney was at.

Speaker: and he just looks like flustered answering it and is just like, I'm sorry, I can't help you and automatically hangs it up. So it's like, okay he was clearly dealing with phone calls or the little things like that before or like still, I should say.

Speaker: And now you have gwen having to deal with it So she gets on the phone and it's their mom and she's, you know, just being that voice of comfort to her and just basically telling her, you did great because you helped save these boys. You're not cursed. What you have is a gift.

Speaker: And she even like says, I love you both, but also tell Finny that his friend Robin says hi. so That fucking brought me to tears because this actress, like in the first one, when the girl who plays Gwen, when she's crying, like when the dad's beating the shit out of her in the kitchen, like I fucking cried seeing that because I'm like, damn, this poor girl.

Speaker: And she really knows how to cry. And then in this one, crying again, like in every scene, she just like really amped it up in this film. But to have it be because of that, like her mom is just comforting her. I fucking loved it. So they I really, really hope they just end it with this and leave it alone because there's no way to come back from that. But I do like how they just sealed all that in.

Speaker: It was so beautiful. i had to fight back tears during that part. I get a little embarrassed to cry at movies when my girlfriend's around. When I'm alone, I'll let it rip.

Speaker: But... Yeah, I really had to hold back tears. It was a lovely moment, a great thing to end this on. And I agree. Watching that felt like a reason to not do a third one.

Speaker: And I mean, if you if you do a third one, you gotta... find a way to wrap that Gwen thing up again in that kind of way, or maybe Gwen isn't in it. Her story feels so, like, her emotional arc feels complete and this point at this point, and maybe there's more there that i'm I'm not seeing or I'm not aware of, but it feels very complete to me, and I found it to be very like a beautiful note to end the movie on.

Speaker: Yeah, so any final thoughts on the Black Phone 2? I liked most of it, I'd say. i rated it 4 out of 5 on Letterboxd. Follow me at Nicholas Ewers.

Speaker: Maybe it deserves more of a 3.5 star thing. The shit that works in this movie works so hard for me, and the shit that doesn't work in this movie falls so flat so hard for me.

Speaker: so I'm really caught in this weird place with this movie where I don't quite know where to put it. I feel like I'm going to watch it a bunch. This feels... I'm saying the word feel a lot.

Speaker: The Black Phone is a movie that I've felt the need to put on again since we've talked about it. I'm feeling that way about Black Phone 2. I really want to watch it. it function It works so well for me. They both do as a horror film.

Speaker: This one, there's more I'm wrestling with, but i'm I find myself thinking that I'm going to revisit this movie a bunch. But and like I said, I'm mostly positive, I guess.

Speaker: Yeah, I could see myself rewatching this one. i like that there's more area that we get to, you know, live in not just like their hometown and then the grabber's home, homes, I should say. You have, you know, a different environment where you're at this camp and, you know, it's a blizzard outside. You're dealing with a lake, which is so vast to deal with too. So yeah, but there there was a lot to unpack here.

Speaker: Unfortunately, a lot of it wasn't executed the greatest, but you know it's still not a terrible film that I hate.

Speaker: I do think I like it a little more than the first one, like I said. But yeah, i would watch this again. i would I definitely would. Yeah, and I want to just real quick before we wrap up, shout out that scenery. I love the snow, love the ice.

Speaker: I love a daylight horror movie. I love a snowy horror movie. We don't get a lot of them, but totally love the look of all of that. Love the scenery. The setting worked for me.

Speaker: Hell yeah, I agree on that too. Yeah, so... So stay tuned next week, guys. We're going to be bringing you an episode on Bring Her Back. I think that's going to be a fun one. I'm very excited to talk about that one with you. I'm excited to see your reaction. You're going to be watching it soon.

Speaker: We're going to be recording that one soon for you guys. These are coming at you coming at us pretty close together. not Not you guys as much. You're getting this episode day late. Sorry for that delay. But this is a free podcast. So that take it or leave it. How about that?

Speaker: Yeah, exactly. We're putting our all into this, guys. We do it for you, though. Yeah, but yeah bring her back. That's coming up next week. I'm super excited to discuss that one.

Speaker: Yeah, I'm excited for it too. I'm probably going to you know check that out tomorrow and make sure I'm in a good headspace for that. And I'll probably hit you up wondering what the fuck I'm watching.

Speaker: Totally. i Yeah, I am ready for those texts. I'm going to be watching it tomorrow after I get done editing this thing, I'm pretty sure. But yeah, guys, remember to rate and review us five stars.

Speaker: Stay with us if you're a new listener, if this was your first episode. Follow us on Instagram at morbid underscore curiosities underscore pod. And yeah, you know, tell a friend.

Speaker: Tell us about, tell them about your favorite horror movie podcast. I don't think you're telling enough friends. I'm going to be honest. Yeah. Listen to what he said. We've been Morbid Curiosities.

Speaker: Woo!