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The Mothman Prophecies with Doug Davenport & Jeff Lane
39 Plays9 days ago
Join Nicholas as he uncovers the prophecy of the Mothman with guests Doug Davenport (These Guys Got Juice) and Jeff Lane (Piasa Crew). They get into cryptid lore and how it related to the movie, the mysteries behind the real-life events the movie is based on, among other things. Who is Indrid Cold? We want to know too!
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Transcript
00:01:11
Speaker
What's up guys? It's Morbid Curiosities, your favorite horror movie podcast, and we're back with another episode. I'm your host, Nicholas Ewers, and with me is the host of These Guys Got Juice podcast, Doug Davenport.
00:01:23
Speaker
Be not afraid. My name is Indrid Cold. I mean Douglas Davenport. And a member of the Piazza Crew, an Illinois-based collective with cryptid backroom and supernatural-themed music, Jeff Lane.
00:01:40
Speaker
What's up, guys? So I got everybody here. I've gathered everybody today. and We're talking about the Mothman prophecies. I've got two Mothman cryptid experts, right? i I myself, I'm a big Bigfoot fan. I know he's now been a part of the cryptid family. You know, back in my day, Bigfoot was just Bigfoot. He was allowed to be Bigfoot. But, ah you know...
00:02:07
Speaker
There's a whole bunch of Sasquatch lore, man. i i i I should have worn my Bigfoot hat. Your Bigfoot sucks hat. im No, I'm pro Bigfoot. i don't think he sucks. He's Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti, maybe that's also Bigfoot. Those are like the OGs, right? The one everybody gets introduced to.
00:02:32
Speaker
Loch Ness Monster was big for me as a kid because I like, like all kids, I like dinosaurs. And then that was like a pretty... lateral movement of like, oh, that's like one of the major theories is that like somehow a dinosaur survived and like at the bottom of of this giant lake and that that's what like this monster is. Although most ah professional Nessie chasers now like there's a couple of just been like, yeah, it's probably just like a big fish or something.
00:03:00
Speaker
Yeah, but you all should look up ah Chessie. It's a North American based version of the Locked On Monster. Another big fish. Almost sound like you said chesty, and was like, oh, does it got big naturals or something? There's just copies of Tim Burton's Big Fish floating in these bodies of water, and people that a sea monster? That's a big fish. That's a big fish. Good movie. I'm pro-big fish.
00:03:27
Speaker
Good movie. Yeah. Jeff, ah have you seen Big Fish? No. i you know I'm a little bit of admittedly ah not or kind of bad with movies.
00:03:39
Speaker
Jeff hates movies. so there's It's a specific. like a i mean so It's not that at all, man. I know movies Jeff's watched. Jeff's seen the John Wicks.
00:03:49
Speaker
I think you've seen Jordan Peele's Us. You've seen that one, right? Yeah. What else? Pop star. Have you seen Nope Jeff? ah Nope. Wait, what?
00:04:01
Speaker
Good answer. Good answer. Peele's third movie is called Nope. Have you seen that one? No, I haven't seen that yet. but It's kind of cryptid slash you know extraterrestrial stuff, so you should you you you would be into that.
00:04:16
Speaker
i definitely like his movies, so i mean you know I'll definitely watch it. i just like In general, like i mean it's literally like all media. like I'm just kind of doing my thing. and like im i don't know. I end up behind on some things sometimes. Yeah.
00:04:30
Speaker
you know I enjoy stuff at my own pace with like you know whatever into. So what is your relationship with the Mothman prophecies then? Is this a movie that you have an attachment to?
00:04:41
Speaker
Uh, it's actually, no dude, it's more recent, uh, more recent checking it out for the first time. Um, and you know, to be honest, because, you know, i'm part of a group that like, likes making music about cryptids and like other types of, uh, subjects like that. Um, I probably should have seen it before, but you know, I'm just honestly checking out stuff as I go along with it. And like, uh, um, I love the movie.
00:05:07
Speaker
I'll just put that out there. It was cool. Yeah, it was very nice watching it a couple of times. Just like taking it in like the atmosphere of, you know.
00:05:18
Speaker
just the atmosphere of the story that's told, you know, like even without the words that are spoken throughout as they're trying to figure out what's going on or, you know, John. it's it's It's a movie you can vibe to like less than like you, like you don't even really have to like engage with the plot plot. You can kind of just like, yeah. I mean like, like a lot of, I like horror movies that are like more vibey, even though there, there is a plot to this one.
00:05:45
Speaker
Yeah, I've got to say it's the easiest movie for the podcast that I've had to take notes for next to maybe the others. It's a movie that really breathes in its pacing.
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's not in any particular rush. And it's funny that I remember there being like critiques of the movie that it's kind of like scattered and unfocused. And I get where people are coming from for that. But then when I finally ah got around to I saw the movie first, you know, when I was younger and then later,
00:06:16
Speaker
you know, was just out of interest in cryptids and stuff, uh, checked out the book. And I was like, Oh wow. They really like were able to hone this into like a a concise narrative, like compared to the book, which the book is really all over the place. It's just not even all moth, man. It's like just, it's mostly interviews and like testimonies, right?
00:06:37
Speaker
A lot of interviews and testimonies. And then just the author, John Keel's like hypothesizing on like, extraterrestrial or like cryptid phenomenon. And like, cause like in, in some of it pertains to Mothman, some of it's just like big picture, like what he thinks it all means. Yeah. I was reading that there are people's reports of dealing with the men in black in the book. And there's more stuff about phone calls, UFOs, and even poltergeists, uh, stories of people dealing with poltergeists in the book. It's actually ah interesting to like specifically about the Mothman. um ah
00:07:17
Speaker
I mean, be a but bit of a buzzkill about the John Keel story and all that. ah But ah ah someone was a way. I think this person was a historian. i was just kind of looking at information about like a ah the actual reports from like eyewitnesses, like as far as like the newspapers go and like they're ah regarding specific like details about and like including dates and like specific events that happened.
00:07:45
Speaker
um Like he definitely embellished on some things, I think like objectively. But at the same time, there's a lot of crazy stuff that had been going on. and West Virginia and that at that time. So, like, it's it's so um cool just taking more information, whether he provided it and, you know, newspapers elsewhere. It's just fun to explore with it.
00:08:09
Speaker
And that's so cool, Doug, too, like the um the point you had, like how um like he's trying to, like, think about the big picture with it. So that's how i I mean, I haven't read the book yet, but when I do, definitely I'm going to enjoy it in that type of way.
00:08:23
Speaker
It's fascinating. Like, yeah, you have to take it with a grain of salt. And I definitely believe the embellishment and even like his peers of like, he would like be sending notes about his interviews to like other colleagues at the time. And then when the book finally came out, some people came forward of like, this isn't really a match what he was like telling me that he was like finding out at the time. So it's like, did he like,
00:08:44
Speaker
you know, kind of spice it up for, for the book. Maybe. Yeah. I mean that I'm sure a lot of guys in in this field who write about this stuff do that. I'm, you know, which can be unfortunate because then it ah opens room to dismiss kind of the whole thing. You're like, Oh, red and some spice. ah No, I'm not saying you do. I'm just saying like overall the, the, the public, you know, would be like, Oh, so you're just making up the whole thing then.
00:09:08
Speaker
hey Either that or maybe even as well. I mean, maybe I'm biased because I'm interested in this type of stuff. But like just ah maybe someone hears about that and then they hear the the rebut the rebuttal to that type of stuff, like his claims.
00:09:21
Speaker
And like maybe it's like they become more interested to like learn about the actual reports and stuff. But I don't know. I'm probably biased, though. No, that that's also my response, too, because I kind of try and come at it from – It sounds weird to say from like a scientific perspective because this is all like fringe, weird stuff, but that I do like want to think about it like in like clinical terms like that. of like What is the evidence of this stuff occurring? Because like people saw something. So like what was it? you know like What do the accounts point to? Do you think it could be? Because I was trying to think about... like
00:09:59
Speaker
how this could be explained away because it's multiple people, multiple accounts. When I was watching the movie and there's a so we're going to spoil the movie ahead guys. Um, the character Gordon, i was trying to look at ah him through the lens of somebody who's just not well mentally. And I was thinking like, okay, this, like from what I i was reading about, this was like a very Christian community So, you know, a group of people who could be swayed by stories and supernatural explanations of things.
00:10:37
Speaker
Part of me was wondering if it was just a lot of people convinced by other people experiencing like psychotic episodes or something like that. If I was trying to think of it from like a the most logic grounded ah point I could. Right, like some kind of like ah either mass delusion or you know group psychosis, whatever the the term for that would be. of like you know Even if everyone involved is not like ah in in some kind of you know clinical psychosis or you know ah altered mental state, that that there's you know just historically people can – get into hysteric state it can kind of spread you know just from someone people buying into what what other people are saying so like yeah that's definitely like uh if you want to take the the the hyper grounded like skeptical view that's that's usually i mean it's either that or like the other thing that often go to for like especially like extraterrestrial sightings like you're
00:11:42
Speaker
Either they're in in some mental episode or were they on drugs, you know, ah drugs or then also like some kind of traumatic thing. Cause there's a ah popular uf book UFO book called ah ah Communion. And I think they even made a ah movie about it. I haven't seen the movie, but a lot of people's consensus about the author of that book and some of his like ah accounts of being like abducted and stuff was like, oh, this was his way of like,
00:12:13
Speaker
dealing with the trauma of being like sexually assaulted that like he was actually like you know he wasn't taken by aliens as a kid it was like you know something really fucked up happened to him and that's what how he remembered it as like some kind of extraterrestrial thing which i think yeah memories are super unreliable and our brains try and protect us from this awful shit like that so like if that's like the lesser of evils of like no no yeah you're fine you just got abducted by aliens as a kid like yeah that could that could definitely happen to to someone with with memories one thing kind of in uh my research and just for a little bit of like backstory if people don't know like the movie does begin with the title card that said this story is based on events which occurred in point pleasant west virginia i want to say that's where like
00:13:05
Speaker
most of the events from this book take place, but, uh, The Gordon character, he's um based on somebody in real life who wrote a series of books. And so in the movie, he's interacting with this character, Indrid Cold, who I kind of took him as this is like a a human form of the Mothman of of some type, because there's a point where they're saying like the voice that you recorded, these aren't human vocal cords.
00:13:38
Speaker
But this guy ah wrote a couple books about his relationship with Indrid Cold. And his daughter even confirmed this, saying that she's met Indrid, she's met his whole family, and they used to take trains to Lanolus, I think, is what ah was referred to as... the planet that ah that he's he's from, maybe? That Indrid's from?
00:14:06
Speaker
Indrid's home. And so I want to take this stuff at face value because it's so just out there and so many people add more questions to this puzzle and ah I kind of wish the movie got more into that type of stuff and in less into this fictional wife character that was created who got Mothman cancer after she hit her head on...
00:14:38
Speaker
The window. it was It was a weird thing to hinge the whole thing on, and I didn't think it needed to be this quote-unquote exploration of like grief, especially because the I don't think the book is really that. I would have liked more weird shit of in this movie, I think.
00:14:57
Speaker
it It feels like a very screenwriter-y like Hollywood note of like, well, because the real John Keel, who ah ah the Richard Gere character is based on, was, yeah, he was just like a reporter, not for the Washington Post, who like went to West Virginia to like check out what what all these sightings were about and then got like really into cryptids and UFOlogy. But that's like a less...
00:15:23
Speaker
you know to like if you're a hollywood executive like okay well can we give him like a clear a clean motivation or through line or something and also just make him just like a more normal guy you know more respectable you know so you like you make him a washington post reporter yeah and then the the giving him the the dead wife motivation is is like well yeah he wasn't just some weird loner who then got really off the the deep because the real John Keel we'll get to when we ah get to it in the movie but when he goes to Chicago in the movie that guy he talks to it seems more like the real John Keel in terms of like john John's like view on like
00:16:05
Speaker
extra, you know, supernatural phenomenon and extraterrestrial stuff that that's like kind of how he talks in the book, like how of that guy that he that professor that he sees.
00:16:15
Speaker
An interesting thing, too. I guess the original script for this movie had it being more of a creature feature And I'm wondering what that would have looked like. um If you guys are okay, I'll do, I'm going to just run through real quick, like a little bit of backstory on the production, just to give you guys an idea of like how it ended up being the way it was and how the movie came to life.
00:16:43
Speaker
But, uh, The movie was directed by Mark Pellington. I don't know if we've said that already or just talked about it off mic. But he started, he got his foot into the door by doing promos for MTV. And then he graduated to doing music videos. And eventually he directed this movie called Going All the Way with Ben Affleck and Rachel Weisz. It was a little indie film.
00:17:09
Speaker
Went on to do a movie with a bigger budget and acclaimed thriller called allling Arlington Road. And then from there, he was like, he gets offered Mothman.
00:17:19
Speaker
He turns it down because he's like, this is too cheesy. It's a creature feature. I'm going to go back to doing music videos and commercials. It hangs out with Nine Inch Nails a bunch. And then...
00:17:30
Speaker
He gets offered Mothman again, passes on it again. He's like, I don't like this. Then he go he didn't like the idea of it being a creature feature. He thought it was super cheesy.
00:17:40
Speaker
And so he ends up reading the book, really likes it, hires a couple of his friends to do a pass. And they what they do is they change the dialogue and they...
00:17:52
Speaker
take out the monster and introduce more questions and take away ah as many answers as they could. And then Richard Gere, he gets the script, loves it.
00:18:05
Speaker
I don't know if he's got a big Mothman connection or is a fan of Cryptid, but he champions it and gets this thing over the finish line. And yeah, so just a little bit of history of like where, you know, where the movie started and like how it got brought to the table.
00:18:22
Speaker
That's interesting, just especially the Richard Gere of it all, because I always wondered of like, how did he get involved with this? You know, like he's like a a respectable actor. And this is kind of, you know, to some audiences or even industry, people would be like, yeah, like this is kind of corny, silly stuff. Right.
00:18:40
Speaker
The cast, I mean, Laura Linney, Will Patton, and Deborah Messing. Yeah, they got real actors. Yeah, those are all at least TV people, which this does kind of have a made-for-TV, like this is an X-Files episode turned into a movie type of thing. It also feels like the first Final Destination.
00:18:58
Speaker
I think it's better than the first Final Destination, actually. Yeah, I would say, even though i those movies are fun. But, ah yeah, I get what you're saying, which is funny because, yeah, the i didn't wasn't Final Destination created by, like, an X-Files writer? Yeah, yeah, two or three X-Files guys. It was ah written as an X-Files um episode.
00:19:19
Speaker
Oh, man, they should have had Mulder and Scully show up in one of the movies. would have been good. I'm going to re-watch those. They're fun. i mean, they're, you know, wild not award-winning horror movies, but yeah some some creative fun kills there.
00:19:35
Speaker
I'm also curious if, like, when, because you said, like, Pellington saw the script earlier and he didn't want to do a creature feature, so then he circled back around to it. I'm wondering, like, when the writing of that started, because, like, updating it to modern day, i kind of always assumed...
00:19:51
Speaker
was like maybe a budgetary thing because like setting something in the 60s then it just becomes immediately more more expensive uh because you have to like recreate the cars and all these other things ah of of the era but then i started thinking about like it just in terms of thrillers because yeah i've i've seen arlington road you know his his other uh movie in the 90s with jeff bridges and that's very much like seeped in like 90s paranoia you know Like it's a it's a very pre 9-11 movie and this came out in 2002. And this does kind of all does it whether or not it was actually like written and started filming, ah you know, at at the time of actually being post 9-11. It feels that way in terms of like.
00:20:36
Speaker
yeah you know, you mentioned like ah they took out as many answers as possible and added more questions. Like this is, this feels like at its core, it's a movie about ah someone who starts at ah at a place of like respectability and status. And then they, some horrible thing, ah inexplicable things start happening to them. And then they lose control, you know, like that they don't know what the world means anymore or or like they, they don't have a handle on, know,
00:21:05
Speaker
you know, why, why are these things happening and what does this all mean? Which is, you know, lot of people felt that way during this, uh, during this time. And so in a way, Richard Gere is kind of like America. And I do really like that kind of dread and suspense and honestly, like eerie creepiness at times with the phone calls The the thing that... So this movie basically... like i should We should say, too, it's a Christmas movie. Shout out to this movie for being a Christmas movie across multiple years. i Yeah, I always forget that. that It like starts around that time and then it ends at Christmas. It got me on the movie's side right from the start.
00:21:51
Speaker
I think it's cool because it's like it's like kind of wholesome like a Christmas movie, too, because they end up choosing the side of humanity, or John does. Instead of choosing to like keep investigating what the Mothman is and then he like you know ends up saving a life.
00:22:08
Speaker
How to save a life. Yeah, and so the movie opens on Christmas, and it's ah this character, John, or this couple, John and Mary, they just bought a new home around Christmas, and they're driving back from banging in the closet of the new home. They went there seemingly just to do that. They're like, let's test out this closet. They're they're like, to our sex closet you know that she's something bad's gonna happen. Like, even if you know nothing about this, like, that they're like, oh, they're fucking in closets. There's just like lovey dovey in the car when she's when he's like, how fast can you get back home? Because they're ready to fuck again.
00:22:49
Speaker
So as she's as they're driving, ah the wife, Mary, ends up getting a glimpse of a really awful CGI mothman in a world where we have dinosaurs. We've brought dinosaurs back to life. They couldn't manage something a little better for two seconds, but... ah It's something you got to forgive.
00:23:10
Speaker
But she sees the Mothman ends up like spinning out on the road, bashing her head, ends up in the hospital. And it turns out she has like a cancerous tumor in her brain that the Mothman gave her.
00:23:22
Speaker
That's at least how I read it. So I get all of that out of the way to say that ah I feel like this really muddies up the rest of the movie because this doesn't even take place in West Virginia. It's no, it's like DC. Yeah, it's totally not linked to any of the Mothman stuff. And anytime it goes back to the wife, I mean, I do like the idea of someone impersonating the wife as him or as her and going into the police department and asking quite that almost made my skin crawl. That was just a creepy notion.
00:24:01
Speaker
I feel like the wife really gets in the way of what could just be almost a Stephen King-esque or ah in the mouth of madness style. A guy visits a town and weird shit starts happening type of movie.
00:24:17
Speaker
I kind of liked that it was a little all over the place, though, because it's like the character John Keel. or Alexander Kiel, John Klein is the main character. Yeah. Sorry. No, not John. Uh, but Alexander Kiel, uh, um, the man from Chicago, uh, he said, you know, like their motivations are like, you know, um, not human or, you know, they, uh,
00:24:43
Speaker
Anyway, so like my point with that is like, it's kind of cool. It's a little all over the place because it's like ah ah Gordon basically got driven mad trying to understand where they were coming from. and then at the same time, like he was trying to figure out where they were coming from with whatever they were trying. He's trying to find out from them, whether it was Mary or if it was just them. And then at the same time, like they were, ah you know,
00:25:07
Speaker
basically, or the Mothman, or entity entities, ah were telling the story, ah or not telling a story, but just like reporting on or letting them know of these disasters that were going to occur. So like there's all kinds of stuff going on because of their of their lens of view, like Kiel put it.
00:25:25
Speaker
Right, but like could you do that without the having the starting with with with with the dead wife? And I and i think you could, but regardless of what they're... Oh, sorry, what were you were gonna say? sorry I enjoyed that part because like obviously he didn't see it before the trauma of that.
00:25:42
Speaker
and like like he saw it, but he didn't. Yeah. And then like the trauma of her dying, obviously, it's like how he started to see what happened. And then it's kind of cool. i don't know, like as a fate thing, like how like it led him to the town and like he ends up choosing one path over another.
00:25:58
Speaker
you know, like he chose humanity, like his humanity over whatever information he's trying to find, you know, by going back and saving, ah you know, saving her.
00:26:09
Speaker
it gives It gives something to hold over him, to like tempt him because he, right, like you said, he has a choice at the end. He can go back and save Laura Linney and choose be in the present, you know, with humanity or to you know, stay in the past with his dead wife and, you know, go down that, that spiral, that rabbit hole. And and thematically, I do like that. And regardless of what their intentions were with adding that, because I do think it was just to like make him more relatable or like a more character,
00:26:42
Speaker
protagonist but for me it almost makes him more of an unreliable narrator because he has such ah an emotional investment in like figuring out what this is rather than if he was just a reporter who like stumbled upon all these weird uh things that it's like no he has a a really vested interest of like that that this like because he's kind of like almost immediately obsessed with figuring out what this like once he gets the town i mean granted there's like really weird things that would pique my interest too of like oh how did I get to this town I just woke up here in that amount of time and this person has seen they've seen me come to their door like all that stuff would would make me want to look dig in deeper but then to have the the wife of it all lingering over it I feel like that that's what adds the obsession oh for sure dude yeah and it's like the connection though like with like the the pictures of the drawings and all that like how he's seen other people's accounts of that
00:27:40
Speaker
you know Obviously, that's like know what it like really cemented his drive to figure out more. It just it comes across as fabricated.
00:27:53
Speaker
for it feels like the thing you do in movies. like You find the creepy drawings. It it looks good on... camera. So, but so like in this movie, he's, it's like two years later, he's grieving for his wife and he ends up driving um, Point Pleasant, West Virginia. And it's like a six hour drive out of the way. He gets there in like 90 minutes. I think they might've said in the movie in, do we know in real life what circumstances led him to this town or led him to do any kind of investigating?
00:28:31
Speaker
ah I think it was just there had been it was kind of like a two year period that the all these like not just Mothman sightings, but then like UFOs and just weird shit in the West Virginia area was.
00:28:45
Speaker
And then so, you know, hearing about it, ah he he went to to check it out. And then also, I think part of it was ah the guy that. uh what's what's his name gordon gordon smallwood's based on you you referenced him before the the real guy woodrow darrenberger mean that loosely you know like ah john keel and john klein are are really the only one-to-one of like a real guy but i i think Gordon is definitely inspired by this Woodrow guy who, you know, was saying he was in contact with, with injured cold. And in 1966, he had like a press conference who was, and he was like announcing that like, yeah, I've been on this guy's ship. I talked to him. So I feel like that also drew, it drew in people who were already into that stuff, like the UFO, ah you know, UFO chasers and that, and that community. But then i think it just also piqued the interest of this guy who,
00:29:42
Speaker
ah To my knowledge, Keel, john the real John Keel, wasn't really fully into that stuff at this point, but it definitely like piqued his interest. He was like, oh, this could be an interesting story, I guess. So then that's why he went.
00:29:57
Speaker
Now, do we think that that might be a better entryway into this story? I kind of like hearing that. It sounds almost like Spielberg-y, kind of, the circumstances. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I could get more on board with that. But I do understand, like, enjoying the...
00:30:17
Speaker
the wife stuff and having a main character who has something to latch on to and something, an um emotional journey. It gives him a character arc, basically. Without the wife stuff, he doesn't have a character arc.
00:30:32
Speaker
ah past Right, like like reading the book, there isn't really, i guess the arc would just be like, he is kind of just a normal reporter, maybe be slightly skeptical. You could just lean into that. you know like If I'm adapting it it and I'm being like, Okay, yeah, he maybe he's like a hardcore skeptic at the beginning, and then he hears about, but but this is still an interesting story, so he goes to check it out, and then he comes away being like fully into that world. I mean, that's an arc, but, you know, like if I'm like a Hollywood exec or something, I'm like, well, yeah, but like is that a good enough emotional arc?
00:31:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of like a Christopher Nolan movie if you really think about it. Dead Wife. Yeah, Dead Wife. Just kill the wife. he He loves this movie probably. He's like, oh, it's a big inspiration.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, it's very Inception. It's like the Dark Knight kind of. And then Tenet, he subverts it. He's like, what if the wife lived? m What if everyone was trying to keep the wife alive? What if time go back? but what if Time usually go go front
00:31:45
Speaker
but what if time go bad Jeff, what are your thoughts?
00:31:55
Speaker
On particular, not much, man. I mean, don't know. On the direction of time. On the direction of time. I'm kidding. What you perceive as time. I feel like I got a good feel for time.
00:32:07
Speaker
has nothing to do with anything related to what the question was, but... I don't know my perspective on and all have you ever have you Have you ever had... ah what you well you know They always say lost time is like a ah ah ah part of encountering like extraterrestrials or UFO stuff. Have you have have you ever had any like otherworldly encounters or it's just something that interests you but you've never personally encountered have you ever like seen anything supernatural stuff uh potentially anyway but not not ufo related well now i kind of what what's the supernatural thing you saw
00:32:44
Speaker
Oh, I mean, it's it's all kinds of stuff I could tell you, dude. Like, it's definitely nothing to do with the Mothman or extraterrestrials as far as I know, though. Okay, well, I guess we'll to have an off-mic conversation about that because want know what that stuff is.
00:32:59
Speaker
For sure, man. Jeff, have you seen the movie Antlers before? No. Doug, have have you seen that one? The Wendigo movie? Oh, i've I've heard of it. um'm um'm I'm also a big Wendigo fan.
00:33:13
Speaker
I'm a fan of his work. yeah When I was in grade school, a teacher turned off all the lights and read a story about the Wendigo from a book. And she talked about like this howling sound that it makes. And then right when she got done reading, we heard down the hall just by chance, a loud howling sound. And that stuck with me. But Antlerns is the Wendigo movie.
00:33:39
Speaker
It was a COVID release. I remember being... Not bad, actually. I want remember wanting a little more from it, but I think it does stay true to the Wendigo lore, so you guys might be into that movie.
00:33:56
Speaker
I mean, just just the idea of it is is really creepy. Maybe we all come back and talk that one. i' I'd watch it, yeah. Yeah, that'd be dope, man. I've been meaning to watch it. i just Again, not very good at keeping up with movies I want to watch and stuff. Just like a like list of stuff I want to.
00:34:16
Speaker
I do do another stuff, but I definitely enjoy good movies, though, seriously. I just, you know. and And like kind of like these accounts or, you know, how the movie at least presents Mothman and the injured cold stuff like, you know, there's there's versions of the Wendigo where it says like that it can imitate human voice like that's sometimes how it draws people like deeper into the wood, you know, like you like hear someone calling for help or something. Because it's like mimicking ah a person. And like that's always the most frightening thing to me. of like Whether it's like something that's like a appearing human but isn't. you know That's why I think the thing and like invasion of body snatchers are so scary. But then also just... like The phone call scenes in this are... like
00:35:02
Speaker
make my hair stand on end because it's like ah such a creepy idea of like you're talking to something that sounds human but isn't.
00:35:12
Speaker
So question to the panel. A couple questions. Do we think the Mothman can... well What do we think the Mothman's form is? Can it change forms into different people? Do we think the Mothman was...
00:35:29
Speaker
Turning into John and going to Gordon's door, that's an event that happens in the movie. After Gordon gets stranded there, he gets held at gunpoint. ah ah After John gets stranded ah in West Virginia, he gets held at gunpoint in Gordon's house.
00:35:46
Speaker
And do we think there's multiple mothmen? And I mean, because I was hearing people like on a different podcast talk about the mothman and how it like there could be multiple mothmen and much like ah any other animal or non-human creature out there.
00:36:08
Speaker
I mean, they might not be aware of each other's existence. They might not be in communication. They might have ah all different like goals or wants or needs ah of the of their own. What do you think about any of this?
00:36:23
Speaker
Well, within the movie, it would make more, so it would almost make more sense, like just going purely by the movie's logic, that there's multiple ones that are almost on like different agendas because sometimes it feels like, yeah, they are calling to warn about like some kind of future disaster. but then just- And other times they give you cancer. Or they're just prank calling him sometimes. It just feels like they're just fucking with him. They're like, yeah, John, come back home. You can talk to your wife. Yeah.
00:36:53
Speaker
I'm in your drain. You've seen Pennywise, right? Yeah. No, I think there's it would make more sense that there was more than one. There's just ah there's too much...
00:37:04
Speaker
There's too much chaos with it all, so to speak. That's probably not the best way to word to describe it. But I mean, part of it is chaos, I guess. But um there's so much.
00:37:16
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like as well, like they they would be able to see more if there were more than one. Like they they know so much. So maybe there is interconnectedness between them.
00:37:29
Speaker
And I do think there's more than one, though. Well, the professor he talks to in Chicago, Leek keeps referring to it as as they. Like, they notice that you notice them. And which, again, I referenced it. Like, he kind of talks like the real John Keel does in his book because his theory, when he gets to, like, kind of hypothesizing about the big picture, is that Mothman, UFOs, ghosts, pretty much all the weird shit that people were, like, witnessing, around that time in that area, he's he's he's saying that like it's all the same thing, like like angels, demons, ghosts, Mothman, that that they're like different manifestations of like and some kind of other dimensional intelligence. He almost referred to as like, it's almost like holograms, like they're intentionally projecting different things for different people to see
00:38:27
Speaker
even though that's like not their true form. And it's like, to what end though? Like what, what is, what, what, why would you do that? Like, cause like, if your goal is to not be noticed, but you also want people to see different things that aren't you, like, is that just obfuscation? Like, what are you trying to throw people off the trail? And he doesn't even really know, like he doesn't have a full answer for what like the implications of his theory are. mean, kind of like that professor says of like, they're, you know, he doesn't know what they want, you know, like their, their motivations are, are, are not human, which I do like that. Like there is so much unanswered about, cause it would be lame if they gave like a very concise, like motive, like, Oh, this is what the Mothman wants to do. Although they do streamline in terms of like,
00:39:17
Speaker
like Yes, it is part Mothman lore that like when he appears he appears at places before like some kind of disaster, but in terms of like directly calling and like giving... like Because he's calling with like locations and like death tolls in in the movie, and it never seems like he he's you know him or Intrad Cold is ever like that clear or concise in in you know other people's accounts. It's more... It's more cryptic or like it's open to interpretation. But when he's calling Goran, he's like, yo, Ecuador, or as he interprets it, equator, you know, there's going to be 300 people or Denver.
00:39:53
Speaker
This is how many people are dying. I'm like, oh, wow. OK, so you you're kind of giving me kind of clear messages here. One thing I did latch on to as well is the line that Alexander drops where you had mentioned that they don't want... that their intentions aren't human. And so when he says that, that gets me thinking like, okay, well...
00:40:18
Speaker
I feel like a lot of what people say about the Mothman, it sounds like just projection. Like it's it's there before these disasters, whether it's there for good intentions, like it's trying to warn people or bad intentions, ah like it's up to something malicious. I feel like you're It's us projecting that onto it. And it could very well just not have any connection to the events at all. Like it could not even, it could just be a creature that just exists like outside of like good or bad or you know what I mean? Or any type of moral standard. those are human concepts, good and evil, yeah you know, like an animal in the wild. Is it like, Oh, is this, you know, what, what's the morality of, of this? And he, I also liked the metaphor of like the window washer up on the skyscraper is like, yeah, he's not God, but he can see farther down the road. Cause it's like, how is this intelligence?
00:41:24
Speaker
You know, he says it's not God, you know, but he can see, he, he knows all this stuff because it it just has a, ah It's just a different perspective, basically. That's kind of how I took it. It's like he can see the danger coming just because of his perspective, the window washer. He can see from a different angle. I liked that, too. It's like this thing might not even have any type of intention or any type of special ability in and of itself. It might just have a better vantage point.
00:42:00
Speaker
I mean, that's that's kind of why i liked the like everything that kind of happened throughout the movie because it's like um um the tragedy before tragedy happened with the the bridge and all that and like all these things are happening, so they're like always observing.
00:42:16
Speaker
So they're just like, you know, it kind of makes it more interesting in my opinion, like where they're coming from or you're wondering where they're coming from because they're observing from this different perspective and also their motivations, you know, like what, what are they about? Like, what are they trying to do?
00:42:33
Speaker
You know? And so like, there's like things happening in people's lives and stuff and they're observing it. And then when people start to notice them, obviously they'll try to, they might, you know, communicate with them.
00:42:45
Speaker
And like, if you try to investigate it, obviously you're going to, find out more about them. And then obviously then when like ah the tragedies have happened, um you know, like even with like the real life accounts and stuff, ah that's, you know, like the harbinger of doom situation. Like what is like, what is their purpose? But I mean, obviously they're present in that. So.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, the real life accounts they at least touch on in the movie is there's a woman who says that she saw a creature with red eyes ah standing under her tree in her yard, standing about eight feet tall because it was up to a certain branch.
00:43:23
Speaker
They interview a fireman who's been receiving strange calls to the fire station and they changed the ah phone number at the department before they made it public. They started receiving the strange calls again.
00:43:36
Speaker
ah Two teens were making out in their car in the middle of nowhere and they saw flashing lights as if it was like a UFO, actually. And then Gordon tells ah Johnny that he heard his sink saying 99 will die, Denver 9. So I don't know how much of that is actually true accounts from the book, but those are just a handful of what they get into from ah that town.
00:44:06
Speaker
A lot of a lot of the like the eyewitnesses that they talk to, or when he's first looking at the reports, when me he's like, what did you mean by weird stuff? And she shows him some files, and you're like the quick cutting of fucking crazy editing in this movie. Red eyes. Yeah. but ah yeah highlighting all that stuff like that. Those are like kind of excerpts from, from the books just describing like people's encounters and especially book from John clean actually, or whatever, whatever his real name, Mr. Clean. Yeah. bald guy on the cover
00:44:42
Speaker
Jonathan clean. ah But but with the that one couple of the the guy has like like these like almost like red. His eyes are red. And there's like a lot more people who have like that kind of redness in in the book that are eyewitnesses. And they claim that's like they went to a doctor and ah and doctors were like, this is kind of consistent with radiation burns. It's almost like if you are in certain contact with this with these things that it's like they're radioactive. Is that a known thing about cryptids?
00:45:16
Speaker
I don't think it applies to all cryptids. I think that that is like a thing that's like just... I mean, there's so much weird shit that was happening at at this time with... Mothman and everything being seen that it's kind of the radiation is just another thing thrown into the mix of like, because not everyone who saw something has like radiation burns or like signs of radiation exposure. So it's which, which I, I do ah like the inconsistency could be frustrating, but almost like,
00:45:47
Speaker
like its motivations it's kind of in compelling because it's like yeah what what does that inconsistency mean like is it choosing to be more radioactive to make other people sick is that like a malicious or is it just like not even paying attention it's just kind of like oozing stuff in the into the air around it is like oh oh that's bad for you i didn't radiation that's like air for me i don't know Kind of like Nosferatu, he just casually brings the plague with him wherever he goes. Right, like you're not even thinking about, like, oh, those rats? Or or is that bad for you? Shit, don't
00:46:20
Speaker
don't care. My bee. There should have been a scene where he said that in Nosferatu. It was like, my bee. He breaks it. He doesn't do it in the Nosferatu voice.
00:46:34
Speaker
Yeah, he just looks down in normal voice like, yeah, it might be. Sorry. What do you think of, like, is there supposed to be a vibe between, like, I know he's getting over his dead wife and stuff, but between him and Laura Linney, like...
00:46:51
Speaker
There's supposed to be like a romantic vibe, right? Or is that just Richard Gere's inherent, like, he fucks. So, you know, like if Richard Gere is in a scene with with an attractive woman, we're like, well, they're going to fuck, right?
00:47:04
Speaker
It seems like he's still mourning the death of his last wife when we do the time jump two years later. But there's a point in the movie where near the end where, I don't know if he's in Chicago wherever she is, but she's on the phone with him saying that she bought a plane ticket for him to come join her at Christmastime. It's crazy how much of a Christmas movie this is.
00:47:29
Speaker
And he ends up doing it. And i i mean I thought that was really sweet. And I was just thinking, yeah, these two probably will... have some type of a future together. But I also was wondering, I don't know if it's completely clear that she actually called him because she says yes.
00:47:49
Speaker
I think that could have been, yeah, injured or something. like i Because my read of that, ah yeah, is that she kind of is playing along, like when he when he says about your call and she's like, oh, sure. yeah it seems like it would just be better to play along in that moment.
00:48:06
Speaker
Because she her thing is that she wants him to stop poking this and like spiraling and looking into it more. Which is... It has a lot of thematic ah parallels with one of my favorite movies, a Serious Man, which is like...
00:48:21
Speaker
the Coen brothers, ah movie, this guy is like wondering what all these things in his life mean. And he wants like an answer from God, you know, like, why is God doing this? And he keeps going, all these rabbis looking for answers. And the whole point in the movie is like, yeah, don't worry about it. There might not be like, it's unknowable. Like, like just look at the parking lot. Look at the parking lot, Larry.
00:48:43
Speaker
it's a, it's a matter of perspective. Yeah. Yeah. So, but It's almost I would be frustrated if I was in Richard Gere's situation. People were telling me to stop looking for answers because it almost it's it's too tantalizing because like in a serious man, it's like, yeah, God is inaccessible. You're not going to be able to force those answers out of him.
00:49:04
Speaker
But it does feel like Mothman's a little accessible. He calls you up on the phone. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me what you want, bro. Is there any possibility that Indrid is a friend of the Mothman? dar or not dark Jeff, it looks like you you had something to say.
00:49:21
Speaker
um Not on that particular, man, but keep going with the... Yeah, dude, like I think Indrid... And the Mothman are like the they like an example of like they in the movie. you know i i think there's i mean I could be wrong. I don't know. That's just the way I look it. When he refers to the mean first to the collective. of like yeah it's it's not just one...
00:49:44
Speaker
thing Because in the book, that there's like all these injured spottings that almost feels like a ah proto Slender Man where like people see some kind of like sometimes a grinning figure like with like a creepy grin will appear. That's so creepy. My skin is crawling.
00:50:04
Speaker
Yes. One family, like their daughter saw it in his in her room, like woke up and like thought she was dreaming and and saw this like grinning guy in in her room. But sometimes it was kind of like,
00:50:18
Speaker
The whole notion of of the men in black ah is not just like, oh, these are government agents looking into the thing. Like some people speculate that that was some other kind of entity trying to appear human because there'd be people like who would show up dressed in black.
00:50:36
Speaker
ah kind of seeming to be official looking and then would just show up asking quite like asking questions about John Keel, the investigation that he's doing, and we would start asking about, in in the book he mentions like a local reporter that he was kind of working with and in One of them straight up asked, she needs to stop writing about it or something. and But they would always act a little off. you know like There's a accounts of like one at a diner and it like wasn't even like eating the food it was given correctly. like It was served Jell-O and it was like picking it up with its hands and seemed like it didn't know...
00:51:12
Speaker
how how to eat it. ah in And so, like, yeah, people theorize that that's, like, another part of the they, you know? There's the men in black, Indrid. It's all just different forms of this thing.
00:51:23
Speaker
I had been ah reading a little bit on that too. And so I was wondering if Indrid... Okay, so you're using this they. I'm trying to like reshape my mind to like think, okay, this is all one entity. The Men in Black, or Indrid, if I'm thinking Indrid is part of the Men in Black, that is also possibly the same entity as the Mothman.
00:51:47
Speaker
But I was reading stories of people saying that they were they encountered the men in black and when they would speak to them, they would kind of pronounce words a little wrong, like Equator or Ecuador, you know, and I was kind of wondering that with injured cold. I was like, okay, is that a mispronunciation? Or, i mean, Ecuador is right by the equator. So ah that I found it a little confusing, but part of me was wondering if that was supposed to be like maybe like one of the quote unquote men in black.
00:52:23
Speaker
that That's what injured cold is Yeah, because the first time I ah saw the movie, i I interpreted as they were being like, oh, Gordon's like kind of uneducated about the rest of the world, and he just interpreted it to be Ecuador to be Equator, but...
00:52:40
Speaker
Yeah, like after reading the book and hearing stories like that, it seems like that that could be a thing. Because you see in one of the flashbacks, there's like a form that, you know someone physically plays Indrid Cold, they obscure him in shadow, and it's just kind of like a shape outside of his car that he talks to. But...
00:53:00
Speaker
The like shape of it, you could imagine that, like, oh, is this is this guy like wearing a suit of some kind? Is that Will Smith? Willard Smith? He's, like, dancing, too. Like, what's going on?
00:53:14
Speaker
but jeff what are your thoughts on the Men in Black? Or, like, Indrid potentially being a part of the Men in Black? it's it's interesting. Like ah all of the, the wondering with the connections between the Mothman and Druid and the Men in Black.
00:53:28
Speaker
And then that's, that's also definitely a huge reason why I want to read the book too, just to kind of know more about the take on it all. And then like, ah but I mean, I think Indrid is kind of like separate from the Men in Black, but I think that it's possible that it's all kind of interconnected and that like, maybe even like,
00:53:50
Speaker
extraterrestrials or anything like that like going back to your uh take maybe thinking that the mothman is et extraterrestrial like the interconnectedness between this is the fact that that it's all interdimensional um connectivity like with these entities or if it's one entity maybe it's just so sophisticated that it's able to like kind of um just create so many different ah versions of the way it can be perceived by people.
00:54:22
Speaker
And like, ah you know, and and then in that way, it's technically making like new identities of itself or like new characters, so to speak. Which is like an interesting concept because it doesn't feel like a straightforward concept.
00:54:37
Speaker
uh, like hive mind, you know, like, like, uh, Jeff, I, you know, you say you don't keep up with stuff, but there's like a popular show that just came out called Pluribus, which is like about all roads lead back to Pluribus whenever we're on an episode together. yeah Now it seems it's infected our mind. It's almost like we're part of the Pluribus, uh,
00:54:58
Speaker
but But like that is like a more traditional view of the hive mind where it's like all everyone working in unison towards one thing. And like even the way Kiel describes it in the book, like even if we're like take everything he says at face value and then like his theories are correct that this is like these are all projections or manifestations of the same like consciousness or thing. It doesn't really behave like they're all working towards one thing or even on the same page so it's like what does that mean you know like it's it's like there's like an eerie kind of like space and and in and understanding what that even implies because it's like okay so it's it's all the same thing but maybe also separate like how does that work
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah, same thing, like, you know, same point, like, where it's like, it's it's it doesn't want to be seen, but it does want to be seen. You're like, you know. Right, because if you if if the if the point was to not be noticed ever, right just don't a appear to people in any form.
00:56:03
Speaker
Right. I do kind of... like the idea of these creatures being separate entities with their own agendas that don't relate to each other and maybe sometimes they're in the same time and place around the same event but I i do kind of like the idea of it all just being happenstance and maybe we're applying more meaning to it than there actually is within these creatures.
00:56:34
Speaker
Well, cause like, like you said, with good and evil, we have a human understanding of these things. So we're applying like a kind of human, you know motivation in how we think of consciousness, but then also a linear view. Cause like, if they these are separate things,
00:56:50
Speaker
it you They're appearing to people kind of around the same time, but from their perspective, what does that look like? They might be, you know, if they're popping in and out and making guests, guest spot appearances that might not even, you know, if they're not even on the same page or in communication, they're, they might not even see it as like that they're kind of appearing around the same time or the, it you know, like there might not be that much intent, like you said, that much intention to it. Like we're assuming that it's some kind of omen because, you know, in folklore, like that professor points out like, yes, there's precedent for like ah spirits or, you know, goddesses that give premonitions or impen warnings of impending doom. So that's like a thing in our culture. So we want to apply it to something that's like inexplicable and like, yeah, yeah, that bridge collapse after it warned, ah it kept appearing. But I know, bridge is just a collapse sometimes because they're shittily made or something, you know, they're worn down. So like that could have nothing to do with Mothman. Yeah.
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't have time. I forgot to actually look up the real cause behind the bridge collapsing, but there was an investigation that went into it and ah ah a logical explanation to what happened with the bridge collapsing.
00:58:09
Speaker
But I do got to say, when it comes to a movie, it is ah one hell of a climax. it It's the Final Destination 5 big ah scene, basically. They do it so well in this, I think. Someone even gets a Final Destination death.
00:58:25
Speaker
felt so bad for that kid when one of the cables comes and just slams on him as Richard Gere's like, get out of the car. yeah that had to hurt. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just to and we can go back to like the lore stuff on that. I kind of just wanted to like touch on the climax a little bit, but I thought the bridge sequence was very well done. And, you know, maybe these cryptids are creatures in a at least like some of them are creatures in a Dr. Manhattan time type of way where they exist in all time at the same time and are experiencing all time at the same time. And maybe they just wanted to check out some cool shit get fucked up because they have the ability to be wherever they want in time. They're like, remember this point in history? I kind of want to go be there right now. and Wasn't it crazy when that bridge collapsed? Some witness some don't.
00:59:18
Speaker
What were you saying? No, it's like that they're kind of saying to each other, like, wasn't it crazy when that bridge collapsed? Like, or, like, like that we're just happened to pick up these commutes. Like, it seems like they hone in, or how the movie presents it, like, once we notice them, they hone in on a person But that could just be like reading into like, oh, I must be important. They're trying to talk to me. But that could just be like their communication or like whatever that they're just like thinking about. Like, yeah, all these people died in Ecuador. And then we happen to intercept that, you know, like almost like a radio signal, you know, and it's just like, oh, they meant for me to hear that and like hear that warning. and It was like, I don't know. Did they? i do like that. I like that take
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question. Good question to ponder, especially like exploring more of the lore in the future, like with the book and stuff.
01:00:15
Speaker
So how how does this movie wrap up exactly? I have it in my notes, but what happens after the bridge collapse? Do we remember? ah It's basically...
01:00:28
Speaker
there's texts that say that the cause was never determined. oh oh oh beforehand, it because they set up the dream of Laura Linney that she had had, she's like in the water and in in she keeps hearing that it's like number 37, it's time or something. up number 37. Wake up number 37. And then 36 people died in the in the collapse. So it's like she would have been 37. Yeah.
01:00:56
Speaker
So I took this as just like in spoilers for Unbreakable and Split, in the way that Split is a backdoor sequel to Unbreakable, I took this as this is almost a backdoor prequel to the final destination because I'm like, okay, she's broken out of death cycle now.
01:01:18
Speaker
And yeah it it feels like it's a final destination set up, you know? If this had made more money, they would have tried to turn this into a, they probably should have done a franchise where it's like, it just becomes Final Destination, where Mothman's calling her up like, it's time!
01:01:36
Speaker
the Mothman Destinations. Um... Speaking of which, studio execs hated the title because they were like, who's the Mothman? So they pitched the man in the dark and people hated it. So they landed on Mothman prophecies because it sounded ominous.
01:01:55
Speaker
I mean, Mothman has name recognition, you know, because of the because of what happened in in real life and and the book. And, you know, that's like a whole tourist ah attraction thing and in West Virginia. That's like Point Pleasant. There's a statue.
01:02:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's their claim to fame is is Mothman. So, like, the Man in the Dark just sounds like that could just be, like, some kind of pulp noir detective thing. Like, that just sounds like something like a murder mystery or something, the Man in the Dark.
01:02:23
Speaker
Wouldn't it be way more interesting? That sounds like a Slenderman type of thing. But wouldn't it be way more interesting if instead of this town building a statue and really, like, being like, yes, we have the Mothman festival here and all of this,
01:02:40
Speaker
I feel like it would be more interesting if this whole town was just tortured by this experience all these years later and everyone's like, we don't talk about it. Don't bring it up here. You know, but I mean, they really embrace it.
01:02:53
Speaker
Because if I had like lived through that, like had some encounter and then some freak accident happened that we're kind of pseudo attributing to these sightings. i don't know. It seems like kind of traumatic. I mean, you could argue that.
01:03:07
Speaker
them embracing it as like a way to deal with, with that trauma. So it, you know, you you, you take control of the narrative. So it's not like it doesn't control you, but like, it,
01:03:20
Speaker
It does almost make more sense to kind of like, if you do like cover it up and be like, no, shut up. We don't talk about that. And I mean, it's also literally just like a part of their economy though, too. Like the tourism stuff.
01:03:31
Speaker
Cause it's like, you know, it's not like, i mean, that's and in general, like a lot of cryptids in the the country. um There's, it's definitely like economics, like tied to it. Like just the tourism, um like, like Loveland frog, man, it's an Ohio based cryptid.
01:03:48
Speaker
There's a Loveland Frogman festival in Ranzier, Wisconsin. There's this other cryptic called the Hodag. There's a Hodag festival. It's just saying a lot of fun. yeah I mean, i I go to me, but I think cryptids are fun, to be It would sell a better narrative if they were still reeling over the events of the Mothman. Instead of like a literal statue. like Also, you know if you didn't want the Mothman to show up, don't set a festival in your town called the Mothman Festival. I'm assuming that came first. I'm assuming the festival came before the sightings.
01:04:28
Speaker
Well, it's interesting because, yeah, after this happened, after the bridge collapsed, it was never seen and in Point Pleasant again. and you know That was all the way back in, like, 67. sixty seven So it's been But do we know that to be true? Because they say that, yes, at the end of the movie, but they also say the bridge collapse was never explained, and that's not true. So maybe there's Mothman ah abundancy in West Virginia, and they're just lying to us. I hear more stories about Mothman in Chicago for some reason.
01:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, he he was seen a few years ago. followed John. no He was seen at O'Hare Airport ah by some staff there. like Well, they described it as a winged humanoid. So like you know people then latch on and is like, oh, that's Mothman because there's already precedent for seeing something like that. But a winged humanoid, how do we know that wasn't like a vampire or something? But also people saw The weirdest thing is he had two carry-ons.
01:05:23
Speaker
but How rude. Yeah. um A policeman in the loop. No, it was funny. A policeman in the loop claimed that he saw like some kind of like yeah wing tuminoid that was like perched on on top of a streetlight or something, and then it like just ascended into the air. like ah The sightings of it, when people see it, like they'll be like, it has wings, but it's almost like the wings aren't what propel... like It almost just moves...
01:05:51
Speaker
like it's like a ship when it moves up like it's just like gravity moves around it and it it it and it shoots for up upward but you don't see like any physical exertion on its part like the wings don't move or it's not like it's not like superman where it has to be like who let me push myself forward it just it just raises very interesting absolutely any final thoughts on the movie before we get into more cryptid lore um Well, i just because we yeah, we were jumping around the different different things like we we mentioned the the different phone calls because those were great. Those were genuinely chilling moments.
01:06:31
Speaker
those Those are all the the most iconic moments for me. Because, like, yes, there's there's calls in the movie that we have to kind of question. a lot of things become up to interpretation. I feel like once the wife dies, everything, every any encounter that John has can be suspect. Even...
01:06:48
Speaker
the You know, you'd reference the scene with like the stereotypical creepy drawings. Was that orderly or like nurse even there? Because he disappears after he's looking at the drawing, you know, and it also just is ridiculous. He's like, yeah, she she knew she was drawing angels. And and you look at those pictures. There's nothing angelic about those.
01:07:08
Speaker
It was like, looked like scary demons. It was like, yeah, she's drawn. The escalation, because the first two, they're like almost stick figure-esque, like very beautiful. Then he flips the page and it's like, bleh.
01:07:21
Speaker
It's just the craziest fucking thing. It's like her style changed a little bit. She she she actually got really good at the end. Did all the detail on it? She started working with chalk. That was very creative of her. Yeah. yeah She had some time on her hands, apparently.
01:07:40
Speaker
It was like very achingly sad, though, whenever her voice would echo, like, I'm sorry for ruining everything or whatever that was. I was like, This is just a lot to put on this woman.
01:07:55
Speaker
be honest, I know you guys kind of said that you didn't care for like the whole part of the story where like John deals with the tragedy and stuff. No, I kind of like it. didn't I didn't like it. I just think it bogs down the movie. It just feels like it gets in the way for me. When Doug was describing what actually happened in real life, that just sounds a bit more like a compelling setup for me.
01:08:25
Speaker
and i just i mean ah I just feel like I've seen the dead wife thing a lot, and I don't think I needed it in this movie. No, I liked the somberness from the start because he's dealing with tragedy and and like it's like the like the whole atmosphere, the cinematography the movie. just like the It's like eerie, it's somber, and it's cold throughout the entire movie.
01:08:49
Speaker
Yeah, this is a great... thats So it's like, you know, it's like the story of his as he's like venturing. It's like his like journey. And like he chooses one path over another. Like, you know, he chooses, like I said, like it's cool. He chooses humanity, his humanity and humanity literally because he saved her at the end over just trying to find out more and like going down that cold path where he would have just died probably, you know, just like Gordon. He died in the cold. He's got a new woman now too. Yeah.
01:09:16
Speaker
true Forget about that dead wife. She's old. He saved her on Christmas Eve. yeah you know i mad together forever Yeah. They're going to talk about that to their grandkid. Just be like, I saved her from a bridge crash on Christmas Eve because the moth man told me to.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah, and then Grandpa starts talking about it. I received a phone call one time, and I was i asked it what what I had in my hand. It said chapstick. That was like the big like trailer or commercial line remember when this movie came out. that They kept showing that that part. He's like, what am I holding in my hand?
01:09:48
Speaker
Chapstick. I love the way that that's edited, too, because it's like it almost sounds like an echo that you're hearing throughout. like it it like it it doesn't sound like you're hearing the sound of the dialogue all at once or from the same place.
01:10:02
Speaker
Almost like it's like being projected like through the phone. And like like the one like sound analyst says it's like an electrical impulse that he hears at the end. So it's like, are you even hearing like a physical voice? Or is this like... They're playing around with the energy. With the energy. or any you know Witnesses in in the book kind of describe it like it's almost like telepathic. like You're not seeing, even when you encounter it in person, like you're not seeing a mouth move. You're just hearing... these things. ah and drew Yeah.
01:10:33
Speaker
Yeah. What were you saying? Oh, I was just going say like ah Jeff was referencing like the way this movie is shot and like, you know, you said that Pellington came from a music video background. This does feel like one of the most directed by a music video director movies ever. It feels like an experimental film at times. Like, like the, the, there'll be like,
01:10:58
Speaker
POV angles that you're like, is this the POV of the Mothman? And it'll be like outside Richard Gere's on a bench and then it'll like move down and swoop around him or something. and then he turns around and then there's like nothing... there like i All that stuff is really cool and a good workaround because, like you pointed out, when she the wife sees the Mothman at the beginning, it doesn't look great, so they don't have you know the budget to like show it straight on. And it's just I think it's just creepier, like the implication of it, rather than just showing like a winged thing. like We've seen what winged creatures look like. We don't need to like have that. you know You can just show some eyes or shadowy outline.
01:11:39
Speaker
a shadowy outline Yeah, the cinematography mixed with the editing creates for some really interesting transition work in this movie. There's one shot in particular where it's holding on Richard Gere and the camera like swings back real quick in some arbitrary direction and just fades to black as it's doing that. And I was like, that's straight out of like a Lifehouse video or something from the early two thousand s um But Doug had mentioned the he was talking about the phone calls. I genuinely found those ah creepy and unsettling, especially like I mean, when he was doing the back and forth guessing what's in my hand, what's in my hand. ah even ah like i was thinking okay supernatural entity even just over surveillance like the idea of maybe a men in black or a government type of group ah like surveilling the shit out of his living space the idea of that really was creepy but the one that worked the most for me was when he says ah
01:12:47
Speaker
Great tragedy up the Ohio River. There's something about that delivery and that line. it's It really um i mean just creeped me out. and It sends Richard Gere's character on this downward spiral that i mean should have probably hurt his career. We don't really see the outcome of the governor calling his boss.
01:13:10
Speaker
I wanted his life to get fucked up more because like, yeah, he should lose his job at the Washington. That's the reason to start him at such an esteemed position is so you can see him throw because like the, the professor is almost supposed to be, you know, the ghost of Christmas future. Cause he's like, yeah, I lost my wife. I was institutionalized. Like all this shit got fucked up because of this. And you know, we see him pull back before completely ruining his life because he chooses Laura Linney. But like, I mean, he went up to like a potential presidential candidate and was like, yeah yeah you you can't go to the plane. There's going to some kind of crazy thing. but And then everything was fine on top of it. Yeah.
01:13:54
Speaker
Like they would have arrested. If this is actually post 9-11, he would be like in Guantanamo Bay just for going up to that guy. True. Yeah. It took place in 02, like in the movie's storyline. So.
01:14:08
Speaker
So yeah, damn, that's crazy. you're Richard Gary, you can get away with a lot. You're like, that guy's too handsome. We can't arrest him. mean that I feel like you can't. That guy knew the governor beforehand too, though. So I mean, I'm sure he was okay. But I mean, obviously it didn't look good for his career.
01:14:22
Speaker
he He got into the limos and he was like, ah what's his name, boss's name, Cyrus or whatever. how long had he been gone? for Oh, that's another phone call scene that was good. so Because are we to interpret that call that he got towards the end when, before he hears great tragedy on the whole Ohio River, that's the Cyrus never even really called him. Like he thinks he's talking to Cyrus at the beginning and then it's really just injured or mothman, right?
01:14:48
Speaker
What was the conversation they had? he the Cyrus was telling him like, oh, the governor is going to be ah in town and he's coming to the chemical plant. And then he kind of stops listening to the conversation. And then he's like twiddling the like the frequency on on his like little like receiver or whatever. And that's when he hears the great tragedy. thing so i i turned it to be like oh cyrus was never even on the phone it makes me wonder uh sorry this kind of it's related but it makes me wonder if like that itself that situation that the injured put him in was like a psyop to to um john so that he would go back to georgetown and the tragedy would happen and uh lenny would actually die
01:15:35
Speaker
Well, I, because and then that would actually, and then maybe that was actually the, to debunk your, your question or not question, or I mean, your, your, your take on it is like, like when she actually did call him then at that point.
01:15:51
Speaker
Well, cause then yeah. So that, it so now it's like, that's the human, that's the human. Sorry. It's like, that's in my opinion. And like, That whole situation was like, it could have been like a PSYOP for John so that he would go back to Georgetown and try to find out more about, or talk to Mary, you know.
01:16:10
Speaker
quote unquote. Right. Trying to trick him. Yeah. Trying trick him. Yeah. And then like the tragedy would happen. So it's like they want people to die. You know, like it's it's aau it's interesting. Like what do they want?
01:16:22
Speaker
Well, the governor does say like, get me Cyrus from the post though. So, but cause so I do think this is an actual interview that has been set up through his boss. so I'm not, like, totally convinced the Cyrus end of the phone call wasn't something he heard because it seemed like he was supposed to be there to interview the governor. Oh, I definitely believe that there wasn't a thing set up. i'm just I just question, like, any of the actual interactions, especially...
01:16:53
Speaker
Even if we cut to seeing someone on the other side of the phone, I feel like we can't trust that. Because don't we see during like the last conversation he has with Gordon, like you see Gordon on the phone, and then they find Gordon in the cold. And it's like, yeah, he's been dead for like hours. So it's like, you you can't really...
01:17:14
Speaker
I feel like any time that there's like, yeah, any kind of communication involved, you you're like, you have to question like, so who is John really talking to right now? But that might just be me getting too bad. Like I'm buying into the movies paranoia like over time because that's it's it's seeped in that that kind of like 2000s paranoia. So like I'm I'm just buying it hook, line, sinker. I'm like, yeah, you can't trust anything.
01:17:36
Speaker
I do think it it wants you to question the phone calls. I guess it just really depends on like your subjective experience and which ones you're questioning in the moment. Like, wait, is this one real? Is this one not real? Or like what's going on ah within this character's reality? Right, because we don't even get like a full explanation of, like, you know, ah gordon the initial encounter with Gordon is that he kept seeing John come to his house for, was it like three nights prior, knocking and asking to use the the phone? Like, ah at least from an adaptation standpoint, it seems like they were trying to make ah like some kind of version of...
01:18:20
Speaker
In the book, John talks about when he got to town, he you know pulled over and wanted to use a local's phone to make a call. And it was kind of late. And they were scared and didn't want to let him in because they had had some kind of encounters of like some kind of men and black man and you know wearing a black suit kind of you know dressed a little similar to he was coming at night and, and, you know, come coming to the door. So it it wasn't in the book literally that they had seen him before. It's just that there was like someone, someone dressed in black had come to their house at night and that freaked them out. So then when he shows up asking to use the phone, they're like, who the fuck are you? So, ah but, but like in terms of like the movie itself,
01:19:03
Speaker
It's like, so Indrid or Mothman, they ah are appearing as Jon and like doing ding dong ditch or like, what who or, or is are they influencing Jon somehow? And that he's actually did appear there. He just doesn't remember. Like, it's all, it's all really fuzzy and not clear, which I like that there's no clear answer for it, but it's, it's just, it's just weird. It's like, well, yeah, what, what was happening there? I thought the reveal, or at least like my mind went to, oh, this John has no memory that he's went back to this house multiple times. But then as the movie goes on, I'm like, I don't know if I really buy that. And I'm thinking maybe it is like the Mothman or this injured, cold person impersonating John, or he's getting mistaken as as him. But They say like he fully like knocks on the door and they interact with the person who's been coming to the door the past couple nights. Right.
01:20:04
Speaker
Like they had conversation like he asked to use the phone. So they had like a conversation of some kind. Yeah. And then it doesn't help John's case that the next morning he's staking at the house and his cop girlfriend doesn't arrest him on the spot.
01:20:21
Speaker
She's like, I'll join you. Like I said, when when you look like Richard Gere, can get away with a lot. Yeah. Oh, man. um Is there anything else in the movie you guys want to touch on?
01:20:33
Speaker
I think that actor who plays Gordon, he's maybe my favorite performance in the movie. ah a Will Padden, he was in...
01:20:41
Speaker
Oh, yeah, he was in Armageddon. that That was like, what what else do I know? i mean, he's been lots of stuff. He's like also in TV and stuff, but I thought... i thought Will Padden did a ah great job of like playing. like It seemed like just like a right regular guy experiencing something inexplicable. I mean, I guess that's also supposed to be Richard Gere's, that he's our POV of regular... But like in terms of Gordon's arc of kind of just falling into... like the the paranoia in like whatever he's experiencing with Indrid, like that that's all compelling and pretty tragic. Like he dies alone in the in the cold. So it's like, yeah, shit. Like, is that what Bothman wants for us? Like when you like just keep following it, like in trying to like make sense of it. It's like, no, don't get too close to me, man. Like you're just going to fucking die.
01:21:34
Speaker
That's what obsession does to Um, Jeff shouted out the, well, cause I do think that like ah hit some of these characters' obsessions are like, that's kind of what Alexander, ah is saying.
01:21:48
Speaker
Um, I think that like your obsession is going to ruin your life and that's kind of what happens to Gordon in a way. But Jeff had shouted out the ending song. I want to say the song is called Half Light from Tom and Andy and Lo. I remember it being a pretty good song, too. I had to Shazam it when the movie was over. um Doug, I saw earlier that you rated this movie five stars on Letterboxd.
01:22:17
Speaker
You still holding to that? I mean, you know, there's, it just has a special place in my heart of when i you know, got a ah book on cryptids when I was really young. My aunt gave me this North American field guide to monsters, probably too young because I had had nightmares for a long time after getting that, that book. And then, so like, I already knew, you know, vaguely what the Mothman was when the movie came out. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't like see it in in theaters, but you know, like I, I saw, I saw this around the the time it came out and it just, it just left an impression on me. And I feel like every time I rewatch it, I get, I get more out of it because like, yeah, it's not like a perfect
01:23:05
Speaker
movie but like as an experience, it just... I don't know. it just really like besides like the the subject matter of it all, it really hammers home in that like, oh, they don't make them like this anymore. Like just this kind of like mid budget, like you said, almost like a TV ah movie, but released theatrically, ah you know, a thriller made for, you know, it's PG-13, but this is, you know, made for adults, you know, like, I mean, anyone can see it, but, you know, it's it's it's it's it's made for adults and it's taking like what could be ah seen by some as like maybe a little bit of a silly subject matter but saying it gravely seriously it's like it's like treating it was like such uh you know such seriousness and i i love doing that approach with stuff stuff like this and and
01:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, like ah like ah all the filmmaking choices we've highlighted are just so weird and in unique unique. Like this this could have just been um ah a kind of generic movie, but they...
01:24:10
Speaker
i To me, I feel like they went above the the call. Yeah, it feels very of its time, and I really appreciate it for that. You watch and it's like, this feels like the year 2002. It looks like you're stepping right into 2002. I kind of appreciate that. I get that when I watch the first Resident Evil movie as well. It feels like something very of the era, and i I always appreciate that. Regardless, too, of even, like,
01:24:41
Speaker
quality. i I just really like... There's something about an early 2000s movie that just can't be replicated nowadays. You can't get away with making movies like they did back then. No, if you made a movie like this now, they'd put you in jail.
01:24:59
Speaker
You can't do that. there would be no There's no Iron Man in it. Prophecies? what What is this? Yeah, no Iron Man in it. I mean, you needed Lisa Doctor Strange.
01:25:11
Speaker
It would be a good ah adversary for the Mothman, among other cryptids. Doctor Strange, or who's who's his sidekick? Who's like the Sorcerer Supreme now? Clea?
01:25:22
Speaker
No, the guy. ah I don't know. i'm Oh, Wong. Wong, yeah, he's cool. Jeff, you got anything on Mothman Prophecies? Any closing thoughts on the movie? ah that ah you know As a cryptid enjoyer, it was cool hearing your take on it Doug. and like ah you know like How you had a seen it first time when you were younger and stuff. And then me just like kind of more recently seeing it.
01:25:49
Speaker
and yeah Definitely it felt like an early 2000s movie. I enjoyed that about it too. And just in general, I love this the story personally. i don't know.
01:26:01
Speaker
Like with, the like how obviously it's it's a movie version of the book and the book is an embellishment on like stories that happened in real life. The reports of stories anyway.
01:26:13
Speaker
And like, ah I guess ah I just, I enjoy the story. Like I said, I like cryptids and like in general, I want to keep exploring and learning more about the actual lore with it too.
01:26:24
Speaker
um So was just fun to watch it. It's almost like an appropriate. Enjoy the journey with it. It's like an appropriate adaptation. choice Like you said, like John Keel was embellishing these of accounts and then the movie embellishes on his right. You know, like it's it's just like it's layers to it.
01:26:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, and that's cool. You know, that's a that's a big part of what I enjoy about like folklore, cryptids, that part of culture, because I mean, and and it's an it's an oral tradition, you know, it started as an oral tradition. It's like people it's sort like a game of telephone. Someone says this, you say they saw that. And even if it gets, you know, ah exaggerated beyond the point of like recognition, that doesn't mean the initial thing like that still could be real that someone saw something. Yeah.
01:27:13
Speaker
Yeah, and that makes it more interesting to me in general. like I mean, just in general, the the idea of cryptids and just enjoying like the folklore or the stories that have been told from the past, it's like it's a part of culture. like In America and other countries, like they have their own versions of like supernatural things cryptid unexplainable animal types of creatures or whatever. And like a you know like the the story, I kind of lost my train of thought there, but like um
01:27:45
Speaker
It's just fun to enjoy the art with it. And then also like at the same time, like you said, it's cool because then it's like it makes you wonder about the actual accounts and like wanting to look back on that, which I definitely am going to look back more on that now.
01:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely recommend the book. It's super interesting. like Even if if embellished, it's like there's some if even a fraction of what he's talking about happened, it's really fucking interesting. Yeah, for sure.
01:28:13
Speaker
and just ah and you know just ah yeah so i mean you know just the the the fictional aspect of it and also just like and is what I enjoyed about it. And then, of course, like that it's a story. you know But then at the same time, yeah, it's just fun to dig more.
01:28:28
Speaker
Just keep digging. I guess that's what I... of what the movie said. in the movie said, like, stop ah obsessing and digging. We're like, yeah, let's dig let's dig deeper.
01:28:41
Speaker
I mean, it's just a hobby, man, you know. No, this is all that matters. This is all that I have. now I find... All of this, or at least most of the cryptid stuff I've interacted with to be very interesting. And I kind of wish that there was more cryptid media out there or more. I mean, you feel like this should be like easy to fictionalize. It's right there. And I mean, if people...
01:29:11
Speaker
At least in the TV or not the TV, the movie side of things, if people made more movies about these type of creatures, I would consume them. Definitely.
01:29:22
Speaker
It's public domain, too. It's not like you have to pay anyone for the... It's not like Mothman charges for the rights to like yeah appear in movies. Why are we not... I mean, even like Bigfoot movies, why don't we have at least like one half-decent Bigfoot movie every couple of years? It's right there. it's It's right there. It seems pretty easy. Yeah, there's all kinds of like ways you can make stories off of that because there's so many locations of alleged sightings.
01:29:53
Speaker
like you know And time periods, of course. and like You could tie it to extraterrestrials or interdimensional lore.
01:30:04
Speaker
and And like this movie shows, you don't need to show much. Like it's very creepy without. Yeah, we get that one poorly rendered sighting by the wife before she she gets Mothman cancer. But like that. Otherwise, it's really just eyes and like shadowy figure like you can that that can't, you know, but I'm sure most of the budget went to getting Richard here, you know, like she the other visuals is just like that's just creative ah visuals and editing.
01:30:33
Speaker
It was a $32 million dollars budget. So, I mean, that was the biggest budget that Mark Pellington had worked with at the time, too. ah The movie only made $52 million dollars worldwide, so it wasn't like a smash hit.
01:30:47
Speaker
I do have good news for you guys and listeners, if you're a fan of this. um there's a possibility we might be getting more Mothman prophecies or Mothman type of stories. In October of 2023, Mark Pellington announced that there's a streaming service in the works based off of Mothman prophecies. And I don't think there's been any further ah information or development since then, but you know, there might be some Netflix or Amazon prime Mothman show coming your guys' way.
01:31:23
Speaker
Oh, at first I thought you meant like a streaming service just dedicated to Mothman. Oh, so like, yeah, like this is Quibi, but for for Mothman content, who like, oh, OK, where do I sign up I mean, not a bad idea. There's an audience. There's definitely an audience for it. Jeff, I feel like, you know, you ah and Steve are really into cryptids. That could be something like you start a TikTok page and make some horror cryptid shorts or something, blow up on TikTok doing that. That's like successful Quibi, basically.
01:32:02
Speaker
Or just do fake, dramatized phone calls with with like otherworldly entities. Yeah, you don't even need to show stuff. You can just make it scary just from dialogue.
01:32:14
Speaker
Wait, maybe we should cut that part out. This is a good idea. That sounds that sounds kind of cool. oh I mean, you can text me later and let me know if you want me to actually cut it out, and I will.
01:32:25
Speaker
All right. I mean... ah Damn it. I just had an idea for something. oh Oh, what I was going to say, you could call other people, like do a prank show, like a radio prank show where you call other people pretending to be like injured, cold or whatever. actually heard...
01:32:47
Speaker
I heard a lot of names that these entities use are actually from Greek mythology, and Indrid Cold is like one of the special cases of a unique name. And gotta say, Indrid Cold got a good ring to it.
01:33:00
Speaker
Jeff, that should be your radio show, prank show, prank cryptids. Dude, man, that's a good idea, dude. I'm gonna have to find some... more Find some good ones to keep poorly guessing what people are holding in their hand. you Like, what am I holding in my hand? Chapstick. No. They have to be all equally as creepy as injured cold. So I gotta, I gotta make a little list.
01:33:30
Speaker
ah Well, if you guys are ready to wrap this up, ah Doug, where can people find more of your work? ah Well, as you mentioned, you can find me on the These Guys Got Juice podcast. Had taken ah a little break while I was taking a trip over the the past month, but we're going to be coming back with withwi some some new stuff soon. But, you know, our last episode we put out was our top 12 of...
01:33:56
Speaker
2025 and you know me and nick did a lot of pluribus coverage before the end of last year there's ah a chair company episode me and my buddy tony covered uh the most recent knives out there's just a whole plethora of of stuff on there and we got more good stuff coming to you and then um if you're so inclined in like hanging out on, on shitholes. You can follow me on Twitter at, at the Doug files. And, uh, also my, uh, letterboxes, the Doug or not Jefferson, where can people find more of your work?
01:34:34
Speaker
So, uh, yeah, any, any fans of like cryptids and supernatural stuff, uh, really appreciate check us out on my, uh, collective. I got a music collective. Um, we also just make content apart from the music, uh, about different like card hobbies are related to like cryptids and supernatural things. Uh, the back room, that's another big one that we're into.
01:34:57
Speaker
um But we're ah we're called a Piazza Crew, P-I-A-S-A, and then the word crew on Instagram or YouTube. And ah yeah, we're just recording music, making content with our hobbies, and just trying to enjoy cryptids and other types of supernatural subject matter and all that.
01:35:19
Speaker
Hell yeah, guys. Go check that out over there. um You guys are also on TikTok, right? Yeah, yeah, my bad. It's actually, if you look up a ah Piazza dude, that's my TikTok.
01:35:34
Speaker
Hell yeah. Yeah, that's just like strictly ah card openings in that because i just do a little short videos. But I think I actually posted a couple of our tracks that we recorded on there, too. Hell yeah, guys. Go check out Jeff's work. Go check out everything Doug's got going on, too.
01:35:51
Speaker
um If you want to hear more of me and Doug, over on the These Guys Got Juice feed, talking about some horror. We got some episodes on Long Legs, The Substance, Terrifier 3, some good ones, Rob Zombie's Halloweens. We did some commentaries on that.
01:36:06
Speaker
Hell yeah, Doug threw up the metal horns. Dig through the ditches and burn through the witches. We three of us did that at karaoke, actually. i feel like I should post that. I don't know if just to my personal social or maybe just on that these guys got juice. and Maybe I'll post it. I don't know. Go for it. Yeah.
01:36:26
Speaker
um Those were fun times. Yeah. Yeah. So you can go check out more of what we've got going on over there. Follow the Morbid Curiosities page on Instagram at morbidcuriosities underscore pod. If you have any comments, questions, or concerns, or want to inquire about being a guest on the podcast, send me an email at morbidcuriosities10 at gmail.com.
01:36:52
Speaker
Leave a five-star rating on Spotify, five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts if that's where you listen. We'd really appreciate it. And yeah, you guys can look forward to more episodes coming out. Right now, ah Scream is the only, Scream 7 is the only guaranteed thing.
01:37:12
Speaker
ah Still figuring out recording schedules with some potential guests. Might have a House of a Thousand Corpses episode coming your way. So stay tuned for that. Thank you for your guys' patience with episodes. I know it's been...
01:37:26
Speaker
A little bit more scarce than how it was last year, but you know we're still bringing you guys content and trying the best to make sure it's quality episodes about movies we all give a shit about. like you know what's see Anna and the Apocalypse and Primate. Everybody's favorite movies. Yeah.
01:37:50
Speaker
So thank you guys for listening. And Jeff and Doug, thank you guys for coming on the podcast. It was awesome having you guys on. Love coming on any time. Yeah. It was fun hanging out, guys.
01:38:01
Speaker
Thanks for having me on. We've been Morbid Curiosities. ChapStay.