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Au revoir -Asian athletes and representation at the Paris Olympics
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We bid adieu to the Paris Olympic Games and unpack some of the themes that we noticed about the treatment and portrayal of AAPI and Asian athletes competing at the highest level of sports.
Disclaimer: we had some audio trouble with our microphones, so the sound quality may have suffered a little bit in this episode.
Reddit link: Asian representation at the Olympic games
Emma Navarro being a sour loser against Qinwen Zheng
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Transcript
Hosts Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Hidden and Clean Sight, your podcast for all things Asian in the workplace. Today, it's just gonna be me and Dr. Yu in the studio, right? Yes. Unfortunately, Doug, our other other host couldn't make it today, but it's just two of us.
00:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, so it's going to be an all-female podcast or all-female episode. We'll try and hold the fort down while it duckers away.
Olympics Viewing Experience
00:00:36
Speaker
But today's topic is going to be on the Olympics. We thought we'd take this episode to unpack and process some of the things that we saw um from our perspective and, you know, tie it back to the theme of the episode. So, I don't know, where should we start? um You know, what games did you end up watching, Echo?
00:00:55
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so growing up, like watching Olympics has always been a fun activity that I spend a lot of time watching with my dad, uh, growing up and due to the time zone difference, um, it's actually easier for me to watch it. And it's like for this, uh, 2021, I was able to capture the most of it because the game is in Paris, so it's six hours of difference. But my dad have to like,
00:01:22
Speaker
catch up with all the replay later on. My dad used to even just stay up late and watch those like 3am. He used to play football, soccer. Yeah, so he is like really into all those sports. I was joking with my colleagues the other day, watching all the Olympics competing.
00:01:41
Speaker
You feel like you are working out by just watching other people.
Favorite Olympic Sports
00:01:45
Speaker
but um um like For the Paris 2024, I watched Diving, of course. Track and Feel has gained more of a popularity. And Gymnastics is the one I definitely follow a lot.
00:01:58
Speaker
um which both has the US and the Chinese players, um and Simon Baez is so wonderful. But when I'm growing up, I always thought that gymnastics has been dominated by like Russia or a lot of the players from the mid-Europe.
00:02:18
Speaker
uh, instead of like us. So I was actually even quite surprised to follow that how the team USA is actually won a lot of the medals. Um, and then the other one I watched is breaking dance BMX, which is the new one that they added for this.
00:02:36
Speaker
game. And yeah, that's pretty much it. How about you, Jenny? So I followed. I really got into the surfing competition. So I followed that. I watched gymnastics, of course, because, you know, how could you not support the men's and women's team?
00:02:51
Speaker
basketball, you know Steph Curry, LeBron James, Kevin Durant. It was just amazing seeing those players play. And also the women's basketball team was just fantastic. It was really fun to watch that. um And then some of the other sports that I tuned into were the ones where South Korean you know athletes were competing, like archery. That's not a sport that I normally follow, but I saw that. And then beach volleyball.
00:03:16
Speaker
to watch that lady that they actually had like the internet has a memo of her like she's like such chi who heer wow can you do oh a Kim. Yeah, yeah. And so we'll talk a lot about about that. But I just thought this is the first time like honestly, I haven't followed the Olympics in the previous years, I would see the highlights. But this time I actually had. Yeah, I mean, I think the schedule lined up and it was also like I have um Peacock which had all of the Olympic sports, you could choose by category, which one you wanted to follow. So I really
Medal Rivalry: China vs. US
00:03:52
Speaker
got into it. And I think one thing that I noticed was just like you, like I noticed how dominant the Asian players were, not just from the US, but from, you know, South Korea, ah China and Japan. Yeah. yeah And I think ah China was going head to head with the US in terms of metal count and... Yeah, the gold medal. Yeah. Did it end up being a tie?
00:04:15
Speaker
I think so. And now I think people are saying China actually, I mean, there's a one that is very controversial. But I actually can't remember which one is it. But this, I think this is supposed to be the first one that ever that China actually go toe to toe to Team USA. Is this so also the first one or the second one that we do not have Team Russia? represented it Of course. team good Because some of the games that Team China good at is also the ones that Russian players good at. So I think there's a lot of advantage of that. Yeah. Okay. I'm looking it up. And yeah, it says that the US and China are tied in gold medals. Each country has 40. Yes. Yeah. Even today, I was reading the news that in the gymnastics, there was a bronze medal just gets reallocated to roman Romania because the team USA did not follow this the right process to appeal and therefore blah, blah, blah.
00:05:29
Speaker
It's so screwed up. Give Jordan her medal back. I think she deserved it. just so How do you share it? you know The only time they had ever stripped an athlete of a medal is when they're doping or cheating. Exactly. The players are doing that so well. like I think there was one. There were women. It's one of the track and field ones, and the players decided to share the bronze medal. I'm team USA on this. I think she deserved her bronze medal. We need to share it, give it back to her.
00:05:58
Speaker
But I mean, we'll see how that plays out because I know they are trying to appeal that decision. But coming back to the how how does this relate back to our episode? So we wanted to kind of focus on the way not just the Asian American athletes were covered, but also the way Asian athletes were covered in the Paris Olympics.
Asian-American Athlete Underrepresentation
00:06:17
Speaker
And well, where should we start? Yeah, and and before we even get to a sense, we're going to be talking about like a representation This is the first Olympic that we ever had the same number of male and female athletes attended. The official website of an Olympic, they even published the trajectory of the women versus men representation over the years. My gosh, can you remember? Can you even like imagine like a hundred years ago? There's only
00:06:47
Speaker
2.2% of women attending the games and now it's 50%. It's a huge achievement. However, it takes them 120 years to get it there. So yeah, that's a huge milestone. like Hopefully you they can keep that momentum. Thanks for bringing that up. i I didn't realize that it was the first game where they reached gender parity, but that's great. So now let's go back to like the representation of Asian athletes.
00:07:13
Speaker
I looked it up and there were only six Asian-American athletes competing on behalf of the US out of the 594 athletes. So very, very small percentage. I mean, this is even much fewer than the the national census on the AAPI representation. So much fewer. But the ones who were, I think, come to mind are, you know, Sunil Lee on the women's gymnastics team.
00:07:40
Speaker
And then um there was another Asian guy on the the men's gymnastics team, Brody Malone, Asher Ha. And then the other thing that since you mentioned, that I did realize for some athletes, they do have an Asian, or ah they can be counted as an Asian descendant because they either their mom or they're half like half Asian or half Caucasian or black. Oh, multicultural. Multicultural Asian. Cultural Asian. Okay. So for example, Tori Husk.
00:08:08
Speaker
husk, the women's swimmer, her mom is coming from China. And and then there's um some players in fencing. Actually, if you look it up, so Harvard is actually the biggest school that sending all those assets to the ACAA and CAA, which supposed to be where the most of the players for fencing coming from. And you know how have heard had a lot of Asians representation. Yeah. So a lot of those fencers are actually to have an Asian history. It's just the way that they were represented are not portrayed as Asians. Okay, so the list that I looked up was I just googled AAPI athletes in the Olympics. And it has one from Sonny Choi from breakdancing, Beethoven's out in badminton.
00:09:01
Speaker
And then I think the guy you're talking about, the fencing dude, Mitchell Sorone in fencing, Suni Lee in Ashramang. And there's the one that self-identified, right? There's the one actually self-identified as Asians, but there are people who— might not necessarily self-identify as Asian. So the takeaway is there are a lot more AAPI athletes out there competing for the US. Hey, we'll take whatever we can get.
Media Representation of Asian Athletes
00:09:25
Speaker
And it's also a future topic that we're going to explore on like the intersection um you know of race and ethnicity.
00:09:41
Speaker
I wanted its to um point out was I was on Reddit the other day. um oh I guess this was like a few days after the Olympics ended. And I'm going to share this with you. It's a poster that was released not long after the day that the Olympics closed. And it's basically just a poster that says Aravoir Paris. And it's kind of like just kind of summarizing the the games. And I noticed that someone had posted on the Asian-American thread or Reddit subreddit.
00:10:10
Speaker
um writing that ah they were kind of shocked that there was only one Asian athlete represented in this poster. Can you see it? ah Yeah, I'm and looking at it now. Yeah. So there's Noah Lyles, Mihai Lopez, Snoop Dogg, Tom Cruise, Jeff Curry. And I looked closely and there was only one Asian athlete that they featured. And that's the the shooter from South Korea, Kim Ye-ji.
00:10:36
Speaker
But you know surprisingly, given that China, Japan and South Korea dominated in the Olympics, why did they not feature more Asian athletes in this poster? oh yeah yeah There's also this thing that is sponsored by certain brands. This ad was sponsored by Discovery Plus. I think that's Warner Brothers. I thought it was Disney, but I think it's Warner Brothers. So it was it's just interesting to see that. And like a bunch of people commented um that you know it's the same thing that we experienced, like the invisibility piece. Absolutely. Yeah. It's very white. it It's not even the nominee.
00:11:17
Speaker
I mean, like, Laos was there in the middle, but I mean, almost all the track stars are black, so I'm not surprised'm surprised, I'm surprised at that. But there's not even that many black athletes, if you're just comparing like proportionally. Given that so many African American and African nations were competing and, you know, did really well, Caribbean nations too, it so it's a little bit of a, I guess, whitewalking going on.
Comparing Olympic Coverage: NBC vs. CCTV
00:11:42
Speaker
What did you think of the way it was covered by the different media outlets? i mean did you Did you watch like any of the Chinese coverage of the games? i mean of course like
00:11:53
Speaker
i think for but of national coverage they can be very like concentrated on their own estimates. So there's a fun fact of that. This time, China actually sent the most of a journalists and media person. um I think in total, they said there's like 30,000 journalists and media personnel represented at Paris 2024. And guess what 10% conference. Wow. Wow.
00:12:24
Speaker
Imagine, actually the storyline there was um they also ask very dumb questions and get get very like torn down by a lot of assets themselves. Who asks dumb questions? The Chinese sports journalists. Oh really? Yeah, some are like Oh, questions. Oh, you look so good. Like, how did you keep fit? And the astronauts were like, I train every day, of course. That is a dumb question. But anyway, like the storyline they were following there is, China sent the biggest body of journalists, but they do not produce the the good quality of coverage and things like that.
00:13:06
Speaker
But since you mentioned about the media coverage, yeah like for for China, like all the mainstream reports are definitely focused on the games where they have ah China ah play representation. But I will also say, like you also get um different genres too, because not every Chinese players are good at in those big games. So for example, like trend track and field.
00:13:32
Speaker
Those are the ones also get most of the coverage because it just gained a lot of popularity. I also i have most of, a because I think even within the game itself, you also see the mainstream one, you also see more of a niche sports compared to others. And so the always the focus will be those mainstream one because of the popularity, because of the media influence that it can get from people. And a lot more people will actually pay more attention to those as well. So swim is a big one. Track and field is a big one. Diving is always, but I don't think you see that many of the diving here in the States in comparison to what I've seen.
00:14:11
Speaker
being covered in China. Yeah, that's interesting. And would you say that besides the focus or which what types of sports that they covered, was there any like difference in the way Chinese ah journalists covered the Chinese athletes versus the way the Americans covered the Chinese athletes? Yes, absolutely. um So for listeners, I watch both the the peacock, the NBC coverage, and also I watch some of the CCTV ones that is featured in China. And I definitely like when I watch where there is their own national teams. For example, like when there is a Team USA represented, the commentators definitely cheer for Team USA. There's no doubt about that. It's the same thing for CCTV. They cheer for Chinese players when there is Chinese players on the ground.
00:15:05
Speaker
um What's interesting, though, is I think there's a game that I was watched that was the ah finals for you Women Tennis. It was one of the Chinese players, this is the Czech ro Republic. I think the player is from Czech Republic. And I watched the one on NBC.
00:15:25
Speaker
And then the commentator, and this is like the way that she combined herself is make me she's, she's part of a team Czech rep Republic. And she felt and like the sum of the comments that she gave is like, oh, um the Chinese player has gained its ones, you'd better like, you'd better like and add more of the strengths to beat her. So like make me feel like she's not just and to me, like you should that that should be like very neutral one because for i
00:15:56
Speaker
this not team usa So I was surprised to even hear some of the comments that she had made on the Chinese prayers and also It's just not the way that she thinks she will win the game. And of course, like we all know the game but the result from that game, like the Chinese players actually for the first time, they won the winning candidates. So it's a big achievement, but it doesn't commentary itself. It doesn't feel like, oh, this is a big milestone front for the Chinese team. And it's almost like, we actually lost that to China, that kind of sentiment to me.
00:16:30
Speaker
So for me, like i I think there's definitely sort of like a bias that exists in the commentary themselves. And on on the other hand, they when I watch some of the games that are covered by CCTV, which is the China media outlet, and when there's players that are not coming from, like if the both parties are not coming from chi China,
00:16:54
Speaker
I actually feel the the commentary is quite neutral. Like they will say, this is the strength of this party and this is the, the, the shortcoming that might get hit by the other party. And you, you see that pretty much like a 50 to 50, but that was not a case that I have experienced with the, uh, the NBC. Okay. You know what would be really cool echo is to do a study and look at all of the, to so just like,
00:17:21
Speaker
collate all of the commentary from the 2024 Olympics and see how coverage of um US athletes versus coverage of like the Asian athletes like Chinese, Japanese, South Korean, how they differ. What sort of language do commentators use to describe Asian athletes versus like, you know, the white American athletes? Yeah, and because I wondered how much this differ because um I paid attention to that one because that player is from China. but ah here is like how they actually come into other asian aslets
00:17:53
Speaker
I was looking at that when I was watching the surfing competition, there was one Chinese player who made it to the the knockout stage and the commentator was giving like us her history, like how young she was and how impressed he was with her and like what she's been able to accomplish. And she was going up against, think it was Carolyn Marks, who was like the US s dominating. shes she won She won the gold, but they were just talking about how they don't think this is the last time that they're going to see this Chinese surfer. So I thought it was a very nice coverage because they were like talking about her history, her background, how how much you have to work to get to here and talking about how like, how there are so few like Asian surfers in the surfing competition. So
00:18:39
Speaker
um Maybe there is like some difference in like, based on the sport. but also the individual coming out and so yeah So just being a little bit more humane and more complex.
00:18:58
Speaker
We don't want to end the episode without discussing what happened between Navarro and one of the Chinese athletes,
Navarro vs. Zheng Cultural Clash
00:19:05
Speaker
Zheng. Chinwen Zheng, is that how you pronounce her name? Yes! So the exchange that we're referring to was what happened between a Chinese and an American tennis player during the women's singles. And it was between Navarro and Chinwen Zheng. And I found the comments, I found the purple, and we'll provide the link in the description. so This is Navarro talking about the game afterwards. So she said, I just told her I don't respect her as a competitor. I think she goes about things in a pretty cutthroat way. It makes for a locker room that doesn't have a lot of camaraderie. So it's tough to face an opponent like that who I really don't respect. But kudos to her. She played some good tennis there at the end. She played better than me. So congrats to her. And I don't know about you, but Echo, this seems like ah such a backhanded insult.
00:19:53
Speaker
She's acknowledging the fact that Chin Won was a better player, but why are you commenting on the fact that she's not warm to you, she's not nice to you? like No, I'm like, if we're competing on the ground, like why should I be nice to you? like I don't understand that. like Of course, this is a cultural game. What else do you expect? And the other thing that went through my head, Eka, was I'm wondering, would Navarro have said that about any other non-Asian athletes?
00:20:20
Speaker
And I'm curious. I mean, of course we will never know, but as far as I can tell, I haven't seen any type of coverage that's like this. No. It only occurred with Ching-Wen Jin. And maybe she's just surprised that the Asian singers shouldn't be this competitive.
00:20:40
Speaker
equal And i so I was looking up the reaction from like Chinese netizens of that exchange and several people were saying, well, what is locker room camaraderie? Like you're at the Olympics, you're competing. And someone else wrote, um telling a Chinese or Asian person that nobody loves you is not an insult. With telling an Asian person you'll have bad luck for the next five years or the packet in your cup ramen is missing is more of an insult.
00:21:07
Speaker
Oh, and another comment that someone wrote was, who was friends with Navarro in the locker room? Money, because her dad is a billionaire. So I just thought that was kind of interesting to see like people coming to the defense of Chin Wen. And I was actually very impressed with Chin Wen's response, which was she took the high ground and yeah I mean, she could have shat on Navarro, but instead she said, you know, I'm glad she told me that. If she's not happy about my behavior, she can come to me and tell me I would like to correct it and become a better person, better player. So I i mean, I'm like, she has class. ah Of course. And and also from her response that you can tell, like, she's not just because she's Navarro and so she's being cold to her. She's like, I'm just behave as I should have. And it's me as a player. so
00:21:54
Speaker
I don't even know like I actually offended you. So if you you feel that way, please tell me you know like that to me is a very normal player's response versus like, I'm, I would be curious. Like what if it's not a role actually won the game and what she had the same comment or she's just like really frustrated by her own loss.
00:22:18
Speaker
again Yeah, yeah. And I kind of want to go back to what you said, Echo, earlier about the violation of expectation because tennis is not typically a sport where Asian women dominate. I mean, there have been a few but it's not ping pong, it's not table tennis.
00:22:33
Speaker
but sub but kind of the It's one of the historical moments for the Chinese team this year. And well, for one, I did not feel the same when I was listening to the MPC coverage in general. This is just a little more game, even a little more final.
Microaggressions in Sports
00:22:50
Speaker
And in that, to your point, it's like, how much does the model actually hold that expectation down?
00:22:57
Speaker
Asians or Chinese players shouldn't win this game, but now she's being defeated. um So I can't see that losing the different expectations. There's something going on there, like the the warmth and competence. So she's viewed as cold and competent. And then also there's something going on with the rule violation or Europe.
00:23:18
Speaker
your your um expectation like people violating Yeah, you're violating my expectation of what you should be good at and what you should be good at. So maybe they'll just study their echo. Yes, microgression. There were a lot of it. Oh, and I did want to mention the microgression beginning of the Olympic game when they were introducing South Korea as North Korea.
00:23:39
Speaker
and That was a facepalm moment for me. I'm like, oh my goodness. Is that really the mistake we're making in 2024? French people. I'm like, damn, you do better. Do better. For Los Angeles Olympics, 2028. They better find some person to be able to pro-freight the material. Get an Asian-American commentator. They're not going to make that stupid in the mistake. Okay. All right. So.
Haiku on Asian Underrepresentation
00:24:05
Speaker
I guess that brings us to the end of the episode. It's going to be a kind of short episode today. We are missing our our friend Dook, so hopefully we'll have him back soon. um I asked Chajibichi to write a haiku for Olympics Paris 2004, highlighting some of the gaps in the Asian representation the in the Team USA.
00:24:24
Speaker
and it gives us Paris Games unfold, stars shine, yet shadows linger, Asians voice too faint. I can get behind that one, that seems quite fitting. All right, well thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight, your podcast for all things Asian in the workplace. We'll catch you next time.
00:24:50
Speaker
e um