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Dream Design: Asian Leadership Development Program - Part 3
42 Plays8 months ago
In this episode, we talk about who we would invite as speakers in our development program. We start out by listing our dream speakers and why they are important to the community, touching on their background, and the unique contributions they can make to our program. We get creative as we chat about questions we'd ask them regarding their lived experiences, grit, motivation, as well as their racial identity journey and why and how this all matters to Asian American and Asian professionals.
What speakers would you add to the leadership development program? Let us know at [email protected]!
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Transcript
00:00:13
Speaker
Cool.
Introduction: Asians in the Workplace
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome back, listeners, to another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight, all things Asians in the workplace. I'm your host, Doug. I'm Echo. And I'm Jenny.
00:00:24
Speaker
Well, this week, we're continuing the conversation about creating that dream development program. In the last couple episodes, we spoke about the potential curricula and the skills that we'd like to hone in this program. This week, we're going to take a different angle at it. We're going to talk about potential dream speakers that we would have in this program. Eko and Jetty, who do you want for speakers in our program?
Diversity in Leadership Programs
00:00:50
Speaker
Before we even give those names out, I would also say like, I think one of the reasons why we wanted to have this section of the program is as someone going through those leadership program, we want this person to be able to model or become a model of the attendees, and we want to see them showing those behaviors where people be able to learn from.
00:01:16
Speaker
And unfortunately for a lot of those leadership program where they just invite the existing executives from the company or from some other places, unfortunately, a lot of them were the majority, from the majority group. And we also know that there's lack of uniqueness of those speakers, even though they can definitely, they're great speakers, they can speak to a certain topic.
00:01:43
Speaker
But I don't think they are the best models or the best speakers for this audience. So before we even get into that, I wanted to just call it out. This is the reason why we all have this session on the dream speakers that we wanted to bring for our program.
Personal Experiences of Leadership Lack
00:02:00
Speaker
Eko, I want to ask you something. So when you were in those programs and the guest speakers that they brought in were presumably white leaders, what's the reaction that was going through your head? And I think this is going to help set the stage as to why we want these speakers that we're going to list out. Well, I would say even just like my own experience, I would say I appreciate the opportunity to be able to get more of a FaceTime with the leaders of the company.
00:02:30
Speaker
And also like in the past, like even in the program that I'd be able to participate, they did actually bring some Asian faces, but it's always the same person because there's a lack of night up for this group. So for me, like it's just like I, because I'm also like super like a cognizant of this. That's why I felt like, well,
00:02:55
Speaker
Can we change up this a little bit? Can we actually bring more voice into this? So that's one. The second piece is if the companies keep bringing those white leaders, it actually reinforces the message.
Scarcity of Asian Leaders
00:03:09
Speaker
You actually can't make it to the top because there's no matter how long you try. It's always a big group of people. Oh, what a sad message.
00:03:18
Speaker
And the fact that the reason why there aren't that many Asian speakers, Asian leaders is because there aren't that many Asian leaders. It's a vicious circle. Or maybe there are, they're just not being invited in to speak. But we know there aren't that many Asian leaders. We know that for a fact. We have the worst leadership outcomes out of all groups. But that actually will give us the great topic for today, Duck, on like, who are the dream speakers if we are
00:03:48
Speaker
We were just think this out of the blue sky, like what are the people that we can bring to the program.
Dream Speakers: Lisa Su and Jensen Huang
00:03:57
Speaker
Well, who wants to go off and list their dream speakers? Well, I can go first. Well, I want to be Contra, a little of what Jenny said earlier. She said there weren't as many Asian leaders and
00:04:14
Speaker
I think two of the folks that I have actually are Asian CEOs of American companies. So the first person I'd like to bring in would be Lisa Sue, who's the current CEO of AMD, the processor company. I think she had a start at, I think IBM worked herself up, eventually came back to AMD into a leadership role. And I think in like 2012, I think
00:04:41
Speaker
and then a couple years later she was appointed CEO of AMD and it was actually not doing that well and nowadays it's actually doing quite well compared to where it was eight years ago. So I would love to hear her story and how she brought really AMD back from
00:05:07
Speaker
being dead to being a huge relevant player in the semiconductor industry. Sorry, Doug, I have to correct myself. I didn't mean that there are any agent CEOs or leaders, but there aren't many. That's true. Absolutely true. I totally agree with that.
00:05:23
Speaker
Yeah, and she's the only, I think, Asian-American or East Asian CEO at that level, right? There's actually another one. Well, actually, that's why I always ask a dog, like, why are you not bringing Jins and Hwang? Well, that's her cousin. Invidia. Yeah, that's her cousin.
00:05:40
Speaker
I believe. Oh, really? Yeah. Jensen Wong, I think, was CEO, I think, at 30. I think, and Echo probably knows this already because she's probably followed Jensen. But Jensen, I think, had his startup. They met up, I think I had Denny's over in, I think, like San Francisco or something like that, or somewhere around there. And he's been CEO since he was 30. And I think he's like 60 something now.
00:06:07
Speaker
And I think Nvidia is now like the third largest company in the world. AMD I think is 25th or something that and still moving on up. I think AMD doubled within the last year or so. Nvidia, I think 10X. 10 times. Yeah, in the last few years or so.
00:06:25
Speaker
So that's, you know, either, you know, Asian folks in positions of leadership. And yeah, and both of them actually in the semiconductor industry, and of course, the AI work, right? The hardware that powers your chat GBT, the mid journeys and other LLMs are actually using Nvidia GPUs and AMD GPUs. Okay. Why them?
00:06:50
Speaker
Why them? I think it'd be just really good to get a perspective from them. I think Lisa Sue is also an immigrant that came over. Same thing with Jensen. I think Lisa may have came over with her family, but Jensen actually came over at the age of 10 with his brother or something like that.
00:07:10
Speaker
from Taiwan. I think their family moved to the US when they were 10.
Barriers and Identity Challenges for Asian CEOs
00:07:22
Speaker
I think he went to a tough school in Oregon. I think he started college when he was 16 or something like that. So kind of atypical, but would love to hear his story of resilience and grit and how he made it through and the lessons you learn, at least as well too, lessons that she learned.
00:07:39
Speaker
being at the top and making big decisions and how to incorporate the thoughts of other folks to lead their company to not only the top 500 but the top 25 in the US.
00:07:55
Speaker
And the other thing is like Jensen graduated from Stanford with a master degree. I also feel like that's a typical Asian value education. It's not like one of the examples that you drop out.
00:08:10
Speaker
one of those top schools. Now I feel like I got a brag about Lisa Su. I think Lisa Su got her bachelor's, master's, and PhD from MIT. Oh, there you go, like high achieving Asians. Yeah, and they made it far.
00:08:26
Speaker
Are we perpetuating stereotypes by saying, we got to have these things to be successful? No, I actually feel like it makes them more related to this audience. They share a similar education background and a lot of attendees in those programs.
00:08:59
Speaker
And I think Jensen started out as a dishwasher at Denny's. I don't think it didn't sound like he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but he was a dishwasher and he was promoted to busboy. And he thought he was doing, I think in some of his interviews, he'll recount that, that he cleaned bathrooms growing up. So it's a humbling, I think, perspective to get.
00:09:28
Speaker
And to a point, that's one of the things I felt like there are so many Jensen had in the past, but I haven't really heard he highlighted the thing that is like probably what he as like Asian as identity or things like that, which probably wonder like, interesting, like if you think about if there's someone like a speaker here in the States where they wanted to talk about their
00:09:58
Speaker
their experience growing up, how they were able to build enterprise, they usually bring that personalness into it. But that's the piece that I really haven't heard that much from a person or from some of the other Asian speakers that we were going to talk about. So that's just a very interesting thing to me, almost like they are done playing
00:10:27
Speaker
the Asian-ness in some of those or the interviews, but really highlight here's the common things that you will see. If you see him, it doesn't strike to you as like, okay, he actually was not here when he was 10 years old or before he was 10 years old. That's very interesting, Echo, because
00:10:53
Speaker
That kind of brings up like the identity salience. So I'm wondering if a lot of these CEOs or people who made it to the top had to kind of deny that or downplay that in order to be accepted. Because like I said, when I looked up the list of Asian CEOs, there weren't that many. It's a handful. And so I'm wondering, like, did many of them just like kind of downplay that and kind of just like say,
00:11:19
Speaker
My Asianness had nothing to do with where I got to or where I am today. I wonder if they're just not saying it because I think they may be playing CEO and trying to, this is a form of free advertisement for them and not necessarily of their company and not necessarily their narrative.
00:11:40
Speaker
So I wonder if they're like, if CEOs are actually thinking about it from that perspective of the, I got to represent the company and not talk necessarily just about me, unless it's like, you know, an autobiography or something like that. It is something I wonder too, you know, whether they want, maybe they have the desire to say and whether they actually don't not say it, but, or just keep that muted for now, if that makes any sense.
Identity and Leadership: Satya Nadella's Example
00:12:07
Speaker
Well, are there CEOs of color who talk about their identity and talk about, like, what it was like growing up, you know, Asian or Black or Latino? Yeah, so like Sachin Nadella, who is actually on the list that I wanted to invite, which I do actually think maybe for a company like Microsoft will have another chance to invite him as the speaker there.
00:12:29
Speaker
He did actually highlight his personal experience. He had a book that wrote about how he growing up as an Indian and then came to the States and how his family also have a similar experience. Those are all the things that are very personal to him. And that's why I wanted to see more of a personal side of benefits and personal side of Linda and others.
00:12:58
Speaker
The other thing that I'm also thinking there is, Jenny, you actually call them out, both, is it Norrin, right? Norrin and Jensen are all from Taiwan, and Taiwan is the largest semiconductor place where they literally like, they'd be able to rely on their
00:13:17
Speaker
their connections, their roots back to where they come from. And I don't know how much they wanted to downplay that in their achievement. That's just a question. I wanted to ask that. Good question. As people who want to design this course, this program, do we want CEOs to speak on both? What it was like to
00:13:44
Speaker
get to where they are and at the same time bring in their identity, their ethnic, racial identity, cultural identity. And part of it, this is not only just like bring their identity, but this also talks about how they will leverage the resource they have. I think even professionally that will help our audience to think about, okay, what are the other things that I could have? If I were born in Malaysia, if I were coming from Korea, what are the things that I think
00:14:14
Speaker
it will help the audience to make that connection. That's a great point, Echo. And I think that, in a way, all that, the things that they had to do, the connections that they had, and their lived experience, I think all that would be actually quite interesting to see them as holistic people and who are CEOs so that our audience can see
00:14:38
Speaker
It's not just the education and the connections, it's also the grit or the things, the hardships that they had to endure to learn the hard way to get to where they are.
Fighting for Equity: Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim
00:15:09
Speaker
Okay, so who wants to go next? Well, Stu, should we add to that list? I mean, I can also pick back on the name that I popped out earlier. I definitely wanted to invite Satya Ladeleh, who is the CEO for Microsoft. I think he is probably one of those very few South Asian CEOs being nominated as
00:15:35
Speaker
the CEO for a large public company. He's probably among the very earlier ones. And he helped Microsoft as a company to transition to this new tech. Because I think before him, Microsoft had this reputation in the market that it's outdated, and it's just being beaten by Google so badly. And now, I think it's especially with the reason
00:16:04
Speaker
investment in OpenAI and all those like a GAI stuff, it just build the reputation or to help the company to transition tremendously. And as well as as a former Microsoft employee, I also see him as a person like I felt like for the first time,
00:16:24
Speaker
that I cared about how our CEO looked like in his personal life or in her personal life. Why is that echo? What made you care for him as a person? Well, first of all, I also feel like it's also related to a lot of as like immigrants to the country. Like I felt like he made it to the top. So that creates somewhat of like
00:16:50
Speaker
Like, in the past, like, I couldn't even, like, think of, like, there's the way that he also complains, like, how he growing up in India, and then he migrate to the U.S., and, like, he got the education here, how his family looked like, what's his personal struggle, makes him relatable. And also, like, I'm also hearing a lot of, like, inside news, like, how he will put his hat in the ring trying to compete for this, like, CEO role.
00:17:18
Speaker
while he was, this is like probably almost goes back to like 10 years ago, after like, Oh, that's also a story like, you need to fight for the things that you wanted. Like, I'm sure like people saying like he wants that role. It's not like he has been nominated him picked by someone, but he really wanted that role. And there's also a lot of
00:17:38
Speaker
Of course, behind the scenes, there's a lot of politics going on. But he actually made it through. And that's where I felt like that just added my level of admiration to him. He actually be able to succeed that among a lot of those, that circle, he is all
00:17:59
Speaker
white dominated male, they can also succeed in those competitions. So I felt like that's something I definitely wanted to invite him to talk to this audience and even share a bit more of that struggle that he had.
00:18:17
Speaker
So I think it speaks to just how important it is for CEOs to be relatable and be vulnerable and share some of the things that they had to struggle with. And it sounds like he did a good job at doing that and conveying that to his employees.
00:18:46
Speaker
I'm going to be slightly different, so I'm not going to mention Jensen Han. He was on the list. But I will pivot and I will present to non-CEOs. Both of them are actors, so Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim. And the reason I put them on the list was because they really won my respect when they, at the end of season seven, so for some context, they were both on this TV show called Hawaii Five-O.
00:19:16
Speaker
And they decided to call it quits and walk away from that TV show because they were not being paid the same pay as their white male costars. And I haven't seen the show, but I know that the two of them played like a core part of the cast or they work a core part of the cast.
00:19:37
Speaker
And I don't think it was even that big of a difference. They were able to negotiate and reach a certain point, but it was still like anywhere from 10 to 15 percent less than their white co-stars. And they both decided to call it quits and leave because they wanted to, I guess, maintain their integrity. And I think they would be great to kind of speak to what that's like. I think that's something that a lot of the people in the audience, including us, can relate to, which is
00:20:02
Speaker
having our work minimized, valued lesser than the majority of our white people, and what they did to fight for that. And I really, really admire them for fighting for that. And I'm sure there's also some inner struggle they have been through in that process as well. It's not that easy, just like, hey, I'm putting my names out and
00:20:27
Speaker
I'm out. It's not as simple as that. Yeah, because they really fought for it. Yeah. And in terms of like pay equity, Jenny mentioned it was 10-15% less compared to their peer.
00:20:40
Speaker
And that's after they had negotiated. So before they even brought it up, it was significantly bigger. So I think Grace Park and Daniel Dae Kim went to, I think it was CBS and said, Hey, you know, given the fact that we've been part of the show for like, you know, six, seven seasons and we are part of the core cast. Can we negotiate a more equitable pay? And when they got to that, they still found out that they were getting paid less than their white costars.
00:21:08
Speaker
And that's why they decided to just walk away from that show. That's crazy. So it's 15% after they negotiated. For our audience members, if they're thinking about pay equity as well too, if they have the same job and they're getting paid less and they get a promotion or a pay raise and it was only still 10, 15% less than their peers,
00:21:28
Speaker
Like we can't be just thinking about just the annual, right? We got to think about the career, what it's like over a lifetime of this and what that adds up to. And just to add on to that, I did a little bit of research this morning and this is what I found. So this is an article and I'm just going to read a portion. So at the time CBS said it had offered Park and Kim.
00:21:52
Speaker
a significant salary increase, though not enough to match the pay of Alex Olaflin and Scott Kahn. And it was reported that Park and Kim also negotiated separately with Park receiving a lower offer. So Park is Grace Park, so she got a lower offer. So I'm guessing there is something to do with gender dynamic there.
00:22:15
Speaker
See, that's frustrating when they're like, they're movie stars and it's that hard for them. And I can only imagine what it is for like, you know, regular employees, whether they're salaried or hourly. You know, some of this stuff isn't some of the salary if you're at an organization, usually is pretty kept pretty quiet. It's not something that's talked about in the open or is out there for most to see. So that's a lot of like,
00:22:41
Speaker
figuring out who gets paid what and whether you're within the range or not. And sometimes when you're playing that game, you're already behind. Yeah. And there was something else that the article mentioned that made me respect Grace Park even more, which was when she left, the producer of the show said, oh, you know, Grace Park left largely because she wanted to be closer to her family.
00:23:05
Speaker
And she corrected him and said, she said, I let him know that wasn't cool that you made a statement on my behalf. I know he did it to be helpful and I care about Peter as a person, but I didn't leave for that reason. So I love the fact that she is feisty, she is proactive and she's calling a spade a spade.
00:23:23
Speaker
And I'm just like, we need more Asian women like her. And the other thing that I love about Daniel Dae Kim is, I don't know, did you guys see his testimony in Congress during the pandemic?
Advocacy and Visibility: Daniel Dae Kim's Testimony
00:23:38
Speaker
So I think there's a really solidified and did it for me was he testified in Congress about the rise in like anti-Asian hate during COVID-19.
00:23:46
Speaker
And he mentions several things like, did you know that the most decorated military unit in the history of the US military was the, I think it's the 442nd unit, and it was comprised of 100% Asian American men during World War II in the European theater.
00:24:07
Speaker
is that they have won the most Purple Hearts, the most Medal of Honors, the most like presidential citations. And yet we don't learn about that in history. This is not Asian American history. This is US history. And yet you don't learn about this. I learned about that from watching him testify. And I'm like, I never learned about that in US history. But just the fact that he mentioned that and said, this is the reality that Asian Americans face. We are made invisible.
00:24:36
Speaker
and he spoke to that and I was just like my admiration for him went from like it was there but then it just like went up like 10 gold. I was gonna say I always knew that Daniel Dae Kim is a beautiful man. Oh he is, wasn't he a fine beautiful man? Can we get that thank you? Even men think he's beautiful. You better believe it.
00:25:02
Speaker
But don't you think it's important that we have people who are willing to first acknowledge their Asian-Americanness, their Asian identity, and how that affects their work, and to speak about it publicly? Yeah, I knew. In contrast to Jin Sun Hwang.
Identity Salience in Leadership
00:25:21
Speaker
Well, maybe in a way, like we mentioned in the past, in a way we're all at different stages, right? So maybe identity isn't as salient or more salient. And for Daniel Dae Kim, it sounds like the things that he was experiencing systemically, I think had an effect on him and he wanted to say something about it. And of course,
00:25:41
Speaker
in doing so, I think allowed all of us to learn a little bit more as well too. I want to get like, in a way, like I don't want to like, you know, beat up folks who don't dive into their identity. I'm not sure this will make it to the podcast or not, but just more so like, just to remind like, you know, we're all at different stages. And sometimes I think, Jenny, you mentioned this before, sometimes like when this, we're going through this unconscious bias within the system,
00:26:10
Speaker
We're not aware of these unconscious biases because they're unconscious and sometimes we don't pick up on them until later. So how old was Daniel Dick him is what 55 now? So it would have been like really like me in the 50s. He started talking about this because I didn't I didn't I don't think he was known for this before was he?
00:26:33
Speaker
always like what more vocal. So I agree with Doug, what you're saying, like, we have to be respectful about where people are on their diversity journey. And I also think that there's a difference between talking about it, not talking about it, but denying. An example of someone denying it was like,
00:26:54
Speaker
Like she's mentioned something about like how she never considers herself as an Asian American actor. Her Asian identity did not influence any of the roles that she got. Really? Like you're talking about one of the most polarizing places to work in, which is Hollywood.
00:27:10
Speaker
only had very, very narrow rules for Asian men and women. And you're telling me, or you're writing this in this article, that you've never thought that your identity had something to do with how you were cast. So I would say that's an example of someone who is denying it completely. Interesting. I wonder how a conversation between Daniel Deakim and the f**k would go. Bring them both on the same day.
00:27:51
Speaker
I can see a scene now. I can see a scene that we are bringing people who are not afraid talking about their Asian-ness. And we also wanted to, there's this other category is like, we wanted to hear more things about them because they haven't really touched upon that in their interview. Build that tea. It's not that he denied it. He just doesn't talk about it. Yeah, build that tea.
00:28:19
Speaker
So those are my two speakers. I can add another one. Now this person I don't know as well, but I've kind of heard about her through the news.
00:28:27
Speaker
And this is Malala. She's kind of known by just her first name, but Malala Yousaf. This is the, um, she's a education activist in, I believe,
Inspirational Figures: Malala Yousafzai and Grace Meng
00:28:40
Speaker
Afghanistan. Yeah. She wrote a book. Wasn't she shocked by the Taliban? Yeah, she was. I think when she was like 12, 13 and yeah, she survived and she continued to advocate for women's education in Afghanistan. And I think she is the youngest Nobel
00:28:57
Speaker
prize laureate. So we're getting away from just like, just pure education, but not just all these fancy prizes as well, too. But I think it would be like you said, Jenny and Eko, to hear their story of how the persistence, you know, if you were like 12, if I was 12 and 13, the Taliban pulled me out and shot me and didn't kill me. And how I would try to continue that advocacy work, like I can only imagine what she isn't going through.
00:29:25
Speaker
I'd probably be scared off, but she can kindle you down and she's still doing it, which is absolutely amazing. Another example of a fearless woman. Yeah. Yeah. So you're right, she did write a book and I actually did pick up that book for my nieces over in New Jersey back when it came out.
00:29:46
Speaker
One of them was in high school, and the other one was in college at the time, and I gave it to the one that was in high school. And for some odd reason, like her mom, like my sister-in-law, knew about Malala as well, too. And she totally gave my niece that guilt, like, you read that book for me. Did you read it? Well, here's the thing. Her older sister stole that and took it to college and shared it with her sorority sisters.
00:30:15
Speaker
So I guess, like you mentioned, when people take on this journey of talking about themselves and their experience and the things that they've gone through, it's quite powerful.
00:30:39
Speaker
And it allows other folks to gravitate to them to see potentially maybe how they did it and maybe how they can apply some of the knowledge that these folks have so that they can get through maybe in their day-to-day or upbringing their own community as well, too. And I think that's the lovely part about it. And I see why, you know, for our program, why we actually want to bring all these folks together so that we can uplift our community as well, too.
00:31:05
Speaker
Can I add one more speaker to the list? So the other person that was on the list was Grace Meng from, she's a congresswoman from New York. And the reason I put her on there is because, and I think I'm sort of being biased, but because she was really, really vocal during COVID-19 in the height of like the anti-Asian hate, and she's
00:31:28
Speaker
tried to pass like legislation, combating discrimination and bigotry against Asian Americans in New York. So I would love to get her to talk about like, what was some of the motivation behind that? And how did you know, her identity play into that, because I'm sure her identity as an Asian woman, definitely, you're much more kind of aware of what was going on when a lot of people were
00:31:52
Speaker
turning a blind eye to what was happening in the Asian communities in the U.S. And of course, this is really like only a couple of years ago, right? Like during the pandemic, I remember actually talking to a lot of coworkers and some of them were Asian females and they were talking about how they were scared taking the mass trans in the middle of the day because for fear of like random attacks.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah, I still am. Not because of the Asian faith, but in general, that's a concern. Yeah. New York, New Jersey area. Yeah. Well, let me correct myself. So not just in New York, but she's trying to pass legislation like across the US to, for example, teach Asian American history as part of the curriculum. Yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
So again, we need more people like this fighting for our cause. I want to pause for a second and say like, I wonder if we're, we're overcompensating, we're compensating for this in the lack of the, maybe the lack of education that we have in Asian-American
Education and Community Upliftment
00:33:01
Speaker
history. Of course. Yeah. Because like even, yeah, Jenny, you said like you were surprised like to hear about the, uh, uh, the, the Asian battalion, right? Like, and I didn't know about that either too. So in a way, like,
00:33:13
Speaker
you know, we got to uplift our, if they're not going to do it, we got to do it and we got to uplift our community. So we're not submissive, we're not subservient, we can get the shit done. We're not your parents, Asian Americans, Asian and Asian Americans. And I love all those examples that we bring is from different industry. Like it's not just from mass or not just from engineering, not just from
00:33:43
Speaker
space where people think Asians could thrive, but also we find people in the film industry, we find people in the politics, all those circles, right? And I think that's important and beautiful. Like we should find more people in the variety of the industry and not just like Asian concentrated places.
00:34:05
Speaker
We're not just nerds. We're not just engineers. We are those things too. But we are also, like I said, you can find us in other industries doing a lot of really kick-ass work. But also, right? Yeah. We are, but also. So I do have one more person I want to add. Okay, let's hear it.
Literary Voices: Viet Thanh Nguyen
00:34:25
Speaker
And this is Tham Nguyen, the author of The Sympathizer.
00:34:31
Speaker
Oh, yes. Jenny, I think a couple of years ago, I think you were raving about like, hey, have you read this book? And it was on my radar, but I actually didn't read it till maybe about a year, two years ago. And I thought it was amazing. And I'm like, when I came over to the US in the late 80s, when we were growing up in the community, we too wondered whether there are folks that were talented.
00:35:00
Speaker
right, and had the skill set and had these competencies. And to see this come true, right, to see this person write well, write well enough to win the Pulitzer Prize for literature, I think that this dispelled some things from me as well, too, to say like, you know, I've been trying to fight these stereotypes of like, hey,
00:35:26
Speaker
You're only good at math. You're not good at speaking. You're not good at writing. To see somebody like this come through and win this prize. I don't know. I was jumping for joy. And I know he's going around talking about other things as well, too. He has a couple books out about the Vietnamese refugee perspective and all that.
00:35:52
Speaker
I just wanted to throw him in there as well, too, as a, I think he's an English professor at USC, but also an author. Not only by... He's also very outspoken on Asian issues in the US, so he's great, because he's always tweeting about racist Karens that he comes across. I thought you were going to say he was a handsome man.
00:36:18
Speaker
Well, here's the thing. I had a friend over at Minnesota who went to one of his book signings, took a picture with him, like posted on social media, and I recognized who he was, and I was so jealous. And she's like, hmm, like who I'm with right now? I'm like, absolutely. Oh, my goodness. He's a handsome guy. I got to read his book. I haven't. But now here you always recommend it. I won't do that.
00:36:45
Speaker
And just for our Asian male listeners, you don't have to be a handsome guy to make it through, right? I got the voice for radio, so. Oh, come on. Come on. You're ruggedly handsome. Oh, whatever. You're too kind.
Conclusion: Haiku on Dream Speakers
00:37:01
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, I think we are about at the mark. So do we want to end with a message from our friend chat GPT? As usual, we have a haiku from chat GPT for this episode. And the prompt that I put in there was, please write a haiku for episode where we're going to invite multiple dream speakers for an Asian development program.
00:37:27
Speaker
And what it gives us is dreams guide our journey. Leadership blooms in Asian hearts. Wisdom speaks. Dreams thrive. Ooh. That's a good one. I feel like every time we meet and we give chat GPT something to think about, we're making it a little bit less racist. Because we're asking it to incorporate the Asian voice. Yeah.
00:37:54
Speaker
Well, I guess in a way, the work that we're doing here, eventually it'll pick all that stuff up and probably steal all that stuff from us anyways. I mean, train, trained on. I'm an engineer and it's a job, it's a job that on the rise. That's true. Well, you know, if it means that chat GPT and a future AI becomes just a little bit less racist, I'm happy with that. Yeah, we got to put that work out there there.
00:38:21
Speaker
Okay. Well, thank you for tuning into another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight. We'll catch you later on our next episode. Thanks, everyone. Thank you.
00:39:56
Speaker
you