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What If...? Episodes 4 & 5
753 Plays4 years ago
Little late this week, but just in time to get caught up on our breakdowns of Episodes 4 & 5 before episode 6 releases soon!
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
On this episode of Animation Deliberation, we are covering What If episodes 4 and 5, right after these ads we have no control over.
00:00:11
Speaker
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00:00:36
Speaker
Hey listeners,
Giveaway Announcement
00:00:37
Speaker
I've got an exciting giveaway to tell you about. For the month of September, the Stranded Panda Network is doing a raffle to give away your choice of a Nintendo Switch or an Oculus Quest. All you have to do is leave a positive 5-star review on any Stranded Panda podcast on Apple Podcasts.
00:00:51
Speaker
Each review counts as a raffle, so when you're done enjoying this episode of Animation Deliberation, take a moment to check out some awesome shows like Marvel Cinematic Universe Podcasts, Superhero Ethics, Source Pages, Binge Assemble, and more. To see all of our shows and rules for the raffle, check out StrandedPantan.com slash Contest. Now back to the show.
Guest Co-hosts Join Discussion
00:01:11
Speaker
A one, two, three, four, it's animation, deliberation, conversation, and a celebration of a favorite action animated series, yeah.
00:01:24
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Animation Deliberation Podcast. I am Zuher Ali. My usual co-host, J. Scotty St. Clair, was called by Wong to explore a couple other timelines. So he was not able to join us today and is very inspiring. Is he going to find out some more disturbing facts with Wong?
00:01:46
Speaker
Depending on how disturbing they are, I may not want to know what he finds. So let's hope he keeps it to himself and doesn't disturb this sacred timeline.
00:01:57
Speaker
But joining us today is one of the hosts of Source Pages, a reading collective, Miss Haley Hobbs. How are you? I'm so great. How are you? I am doing good. And our resident guest and animation fanatic, Andrew Rogers. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. Excited to be here. Don't know how I earned the title fanatic, but I'll try and live up to it. You earned it by being the first word that crossed my mind. So we're going with it.
00:02:25
Speaker
I'll take it, I'll take it. We don't do do-overs here. What we say is what sticks. It's canon. We can't print this timeline. We can't print this timeline.
Doctor Strange's Character Study
00:02:34
Speaker
All right, so we were not here to talk about what if episode four last week because all of us were collectively super excited about Shrunki, and then our schedules just went haywire afterwards, so we were playing a little bit of Ketchup.
00:02:48
Speaker
We're gonna start off with episode four. What if Dr. Strange lost his heart instead of his hands? You got a good 20 minutes of depression over here. How did you guys feel about it?
00:03:00
Speaker
Same, same. Very sad. And I was on vacation when I watched it, so I was kind of like, well, this is a real downer of an episode while I'm enjoying this beautiful scenery where I was. So, yeah, super sad, but we all have those. I like that it kind of paralleled WandaVision in that way, that exploration of grief and something that's just really not discussed a lot, it seems like most of the time.
00:03:25
Speaker
i'm sure it gave you a little bit more of an appreciation for your views like uh... evil strange is going to suck this away in a few years i'm just enjoying the beauty right now yes yeah it was a it was a hard episode but i walked away from it just feeling so heavy and ready to get back to the real world so it was kind of refreshing in that way but i was not expecting for multiple episodes of what if to make me cry let alone one yeah
Animation and Emotional Analysis
00:03:54
Speaker
This show has gotten a big roller coaster of emotions and I'm kind of here for it, but also having to watch it through multiple times has been difficult. Good for you. I've only watched them once. I did a second one for Doctor Strange and even the second time I just put my phone down at the end and was like, wow, that was an episode.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, I had to I was watching again while I was doing my photo editing. And it was like, just just focus on the work, not the tears, focus on the work, not the tears. Both well done. We got to see. Benedict Cumberbatch reprise his role. And I think this is the first that we've seen a lot more of like cocky Doctor Strange since his debut movie, because Infinity War, there was kind of a lot of stuff going on and it was just kind of like,
00:04:46
Speaker
moving with the events as they happened but now we're seeing like him just being arrogant and snooty and pretty selfish in my opinion and trying to make things how he wants it instead of how they're just supposed to be. Yeah I think we kind of forgot how cocky he was in that first movie and the whole reason he crashed was his own fault.
00:05:15
Speaker
And yes, he had the repercussions that first time, but now we get to see what happens when it's not the repercussions on him. And it lends a lot of light to what happens to someone when they have to go through the repercussions of their actions as opposed to just getting away with it all the time.
00:05:33
Speaker
I actually thought he seemed, at the very beginning, before the car crash happens the first time, less cocky. Because the fact that Christine was even there with him, to me, said that he was already different. So it's like he almost went backwards, in a way, from that first movie. He started out less, you know,
00:05:55
Speaker
Cocky, I guess is the only word we have for him. And then he turned more that way when he was trying to get what he wanted. And it's very brief, I mean, because that car crash happened so quickly into the episode. But yeah, I don't know. Which time? The first one. Gosh.
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah, I just I think the most notable thing about this episode was that montage of just watching her die so many different ways. It was so brutal and so savage for that. Like that felt like an hour long episode because everything else was just kind of like.
00:06:33
Speaker
The way that they presented the story, us as the audience got to kind of like fill in the gaps with like what we know about the characters and what we know about the story and how it progresses and whatnot. But because this
Exploring Strange's Darker Side
00:06:44
Speaker
was the first one that I feel was just like really far fetched, it had a lot of, I felt more invested in where the story was going more than like trying to catch the little Easter eggs, like I would have in the first two episodes, or maybe three episodes. I forgot where I was going with that.
00:07:02
Speaker
You were saying that you weren't looking for the Easter eggs, you were just focused on the story. And you were talking about that montage, which was... Yeah, so it just felt...
00:07:13
Speaker
a lot darker, I felt a little more invested. And they did a good job providing that perspective, kind of giving us more of a look into the magical realm and more into the character development of who Doctor Strange actually is. And they kind of lost my attention a little bit with the timeline stuff.
00:07:34
Speaker
where the ancient one like made a split version of him and then tried to explain that I was like I'm not gonna think too far into that because I'm not the biggest fan of it but overall it was they definitely got a lot more experimental with this one and I thought it was for the better
00:07:51
Speaker
the splitting of the strangest thing, I mean, it totally backfired in the end, because did he, I kind of like stopped paying attention, I mean, part of it, did he absorb the good strange? Okay, so her plan totally didn't go the way she wanted it to. It did the opposite, in fact. Yeah, and I think it was interesting to see the good strange lose. I personally was not expecting that to happen. I kind of assumed we would tie it up with little Bo.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, there was somewhat happy endings. Well, actually, no, I think episode two, the T'Challa one was the only one that had a happy ending.
00:08:32
Speaker
now that we're five episodes in? Yes. Well, I don't know if episode three was a bad ending. All the Avengers dying? And Loki taking over? The Avengers dying, yes, but we at least have Fury and Kara coming in. Andrew's dark. We have all of next episode to talk about how dark I am.
00:08:55
Speaker
They gave a small moment of upliftment, probably knowing what the next two episodes were. But overall, I feel like we've only had one positive conclusion.
00:09:05
Speaker
Well, it's kind of funny. So on the MCU podcast, you know, when they did the commissioned episode of What If, and there were five people who gave their scenarios,
Strange's Future in MCU
00:09:16
Speaker
they were all really ending badly, too. Yeah, that was so dark. The show's doing the same thing. And it's like, oh, this is validation that these universes are not what should happen, basically, for lack of a better word. And that's a that's a great point to bring up towards
00:09:37
Speaker
I don't want to say a grievance with the episode. It's a grievance with listening to feedback, I guess, with the No Way Home trailer. Because of the mannerisms of Strange and That, there's been a lot of people that are like, that's not strange, that's got to be somebody else because of the way he's smirking and being weird and leaning against the mantle.
00:10:02
Speaker
dang it haley um but i think i i'm totally good with speculation i have no problems with it but i think a very common theme of the properties that have come out this year have had an emphasis on grief and our heroes making the wrong decisions and having to deal with the ramifications of it so i think this was
00:10:30
Speaker
potentially a good teaser as to like a reminder of who Strange is as a person and that our heroes actually do make mistakes that could potentially cause the whole world to end and be stuck in a little pocket dimension. Hopefully that doesn't happen in the quote unquote sacred timeline.
00:10:48
Speaker
But I think that what they're showing us is actually like a recap in a way of like who these characters and who these people actually are and what drives them and what's actually establishing their tipping points. Yeah, I love that. That's a great point.
00:11:09
Speaker
And that was kind of why I wanted to talk about this reminder of him being an arrogant person, because all the people that are saying it's not strange, why would he act like that? I think some of them are forgetting that he was really all over the place at the beginning of the first movie pushing the boundaries of science and wanting to do surgeries that no one else would touch. He would probably do a spell that no one else wanted to touch too. So I think kind of regressing back to that.
00:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, this reminder of him pushing the boundaries of sorcery is not totally unfathomable. Yeah, he just wants to be the best at like whatever he's in, just to prove that he's better than the people around him. And I mean, he drove Mordo insane by all the stuff that he
00:11:56
Speaker
kind of revealed to him in regards to Dormammu and the true identity of the ancient one and the bargains he was willing to make and the lines he was willing to cross and stuff like that. And I feel like, you know, we see the lines that are crossed in this show for What If, but we're going to see what kind of lines are potentially going to be crossed in Spider-Man as well.
Creature Montage Analysis
00:12:18
Speaker
Another cool montage in this show with Doctor Strange crossing lines was definitely with all the creatures.
00:12:24
Speaker
I was really fascinated with how wild their imagination was. I don't know like what's pulled from mythology, what's pulled from comic canon and this and that, but what did you guys think of like how long that bit was of all the monsters coming out?
00:12:39
Speaker
It was definitely long. I honestly think they let the animators run wild and said, everyone create your favorite monster and we're just gonna throw him in there. I think that went so long. I mean, it had to because then we get the reveal that he's been doing it for centuries. And if it had only been a few creatures, we probably wouldn't have bought that little negative information. Yeah. And then we had the reappearance of I'm assuming the same tentacle monster.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, he had some sort of dialogue. Like hello old friend or something like that. Well, that was because he tried to absorb it at the beginning, it didn't work. So then he worked his way back up. I was just saying, assuming it's the same as the one that Captain Carter fought. I was wondering if that was going to be our little crossover they were trying to make. Was that the same obelisk or schumagorath or whatever?
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, Lovecraftian being that was. I'm actually not sure because one was a space portal and the other was like dimension portal. Maybe. I believe the illusion is the dark dimension is where he was pulling that from. I don't know. I don't know.
00:14:02
Speaker
Definitely a lot of similarities in design though, in regards to flailing tentacles. And that could just be a similar way that they animated it, and that's why I want to make that assumption.
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, we already have this drawn up, like, can we just use those tentacles? Do we have to make new tentacles? Save some money. Come on, Disney, don't cut corners like that. You've already made me think things are clunky. I don't need repeated tentacles. I do like that he has a standard of
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't have an issue with, because if zombies didn't look clunky that'd be a problem. I definitely didn't have any issue with the way the animation looked and their decision on the way the lights and everything look was just phenomenal as always.
00:14:49
Speaker
Um, but in regards to the monster, the little, what I call the garden gnome at the beginning angry. And then that roach comes up and he's like, nice Kate, but I draw the line at this, just sends him back. I don't want any part of you. Oh yeah. That Cape was awesome. I got, I got two headed goat, but no bugs. I got mad.
00:15:17
Speaker
I got mad Jafar vibes out of him by the time he put that cape on and he showed up later with like this dark eyes and everything. And I was like, ugh. Oh yeah, that part was gross.
00:15:37
Speaker
And then he had Christine later, just the way Jafar held up Jasmine. You see the past is beautiful. I think that may have also been a parallel to WandaVision a little bit, the way that was kind of cradling in the same way that she cradled Vision's head as he was disappearing.
00:15:59
Speaker
And it kind of had the disappear from front to back in the same way that when the hex disappeared, his face disappeared from front to back and he was just crying out, which was brutal. The way that Benedict Cumberbatch put emotion into those cries, but it seemed possibly a callback illusion, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, both. There's a line in episode five that kind of applies to both of these is like, you did all of that for love. What is wrong with you?
00:16:27
Speaker
like you encourage the zombie apocalypse and you ended a universe like y'all y'all need to get your priorities straight uh but to the last the last point that i want to make on the creatures that you'll appreciate andrew uh haley have you seen teen titans no
00:16:45
Speaker
There was what looked like Raven with Trigon's eyes because there was like a blue bird that came out, opened up its wings and had like six eyes. And I was like, Oh my God, is that Raven? No, that's DC. What am I thinking?
00:17:01
Speaker
But it looked really cool and I was like, Ooh, I really like this. I just really want that to be Raven. Maybe he actually pulled like a character out of a different universe entirely. It's like, let me borrow this guy from DC. He's got good magical influence. Now that you say that, that is definitely on the money. And that was one of the memorable monsters because it was first out of the portal, I guess. I think it was like the third one out, like right after the roach.
00:17:29
Speaker
Oh yeah, first real monster that wasn't an angry gnome. Yeah, I would have squashed that roach so quick. Matt even sent it back. He looked friendly. I don't care. We got a whole bunch of Uatu in this episode.
The Watcher's Role
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, he was chatty in this episode. I think the most of the five so far. And the first time he's had dialogue with a character.
00:17:57
Speaker
That was mind boggling when that happened. Yeah, he was scolding him. Even at the beginning, he was like, I could interfere. But he wouldn't listen to me anyways. And later, it's like, oh, I'd love to just mess you up. But you caused this. Enjoy the pocket dimension.
00:18:18
Speaker
All by himself, sad. All by myself. A lot who can come visit sometimes. Yeah, it's like, hey, how you doing over there? How long is it been? I feel like real salty about it. It feels like it's been two years, like it's been 500, but OK. I'm going to go back to that. Yeah, like what's going to happen to him in that non-existent universe now?
00:18:47
Speaker
He's probably going to try and get out knowing him. I guess he could. Yeah. If anyone could, he could. Yeah. Yeah. He has a lot of power now. I do like that they kind of end it with the question or end it with a cliffhanger. Just like a little tease of like, if they wanted to do something in the future, they could. If not, then it's like, let your imagination kind of fill the void. Yeah.
00:19:17
Speaker
And we've confirmed a season two for the show, yes? Yeah, some of them like Captain Carter are getting a second part. But at the top of my head, that's the only confirmed one that I know of. Right. Well, them leaving him in that pocket dimension could always be something they come back to. They the possibilities are quite literally endless to ask questions. Yeah. What kind of questions?
00:19:44
Speaker
What if? What if? Man. Sorry, regular listeners. Any final thoughts on the dark strange one? I will say with all this talk of Oatu, I hate to keep bringing back up, are we going to get this character in live action? Are we going to get that character?
00:20:06
Speaker
I really hope that him interacting with Strange gives us some possibility of him interacting with our Strange in the MCU. Because that feels like a very easy way to say we've already seen Strange be powerful enough that he can talk to the Watcher. Yeah. Is there a possibility of him doing that at some point as the multiverse continues to devolve? Does he call upon the help of the Watcher? Because as much as he says he's not going to interfere,
00:20:35
Speaker
I think he has to at some point. Yeah. Or he will and like something bad's going to happen from it. No, like I don't read, I don't read comics very much, but one of the few that I did was the civil war run from a few years ago. And that was the first time that I had heard of the watcher. Cause when they had their, uh, super human registration act, I think it was called.
00:21:05
Speaker
It was basically that all heroes have to register under the government and show their identity because secret identities was still a thing in this run.
00:21:16
Speaker
It was a discussion that was happening like should we do it should we not do it like how the movie started and when this was happening like a lot who just pops up and everyone's like what the hell is that and Dr. Strange is like oh yeah he's one of the watchers like they pop up and just kind of analyze when like something really big and monumental is about to happen.
00:21:36
Speaker
I wouldn't even mind like something like that where it's like when something big is about to happen like you know in the show like whenever there's a transition scene like he's just up in the horizon I just want to have like every MCU movie whenever there's a pivotal moment just happen in the background just like that but live-action
00:21:53
Speaker
I wouldn't mind that. I don't know if I want him otherwise in live action. It would just depend on how they do it, but I like that idea. That's cool. Yeah. If you don't give dialogue with anybody, I want to see at least that. Just watching the movie and someone's traveling through space or driving down the highway, it's like, oh, there he is. There he is. Just like, where's Waldo? Where's Watto?
00:22:16
Speaker
And for all of the audio listeners, Zuhair did the exact Leonardo DiCaprio meme. I think that wraps it up for what if Doctor Strange lost his heart instead of his hands. I'm gonna start with
Zombie Apocalypse Episode Introduction
00:22:40
Speaker
Hailey. What'd you think of zombies?
00:22:43
Speaker
Well, I'm not really into zombies. I've never probably ever watched anything with zombies in it on purpose. I did think it was a fun episode. I thought the humor was like so out of place, which is what made it funny. Like when Peter shows his orientation video, I loved it. That was so perfect.
00:23:12
Speaker
But it was also super gross. I do not enjoy hearing chomping sounds of someone eating flesh. It's not one of my favorite things. I'm curious how many people were wishing that that video was live action when they pulled a shower curtain on Bucky.
00:23:32
Speaker
I had the same thought. I don't want to shout yes, yes, yes, but. You're internally shouting yes, yes, yes.
00:23:45
Speaker
yes yes yes yeah that video was very well done the only thing that made me stop and go like yeah that wouldn't happen was when the avengers like came out of the coin jet and then they were showing like all them get eaten and i was like why would tony stark not be flying
00:24:04
Speaker
there's a bunch of humans walking up to him like he could have easily and like there's no way that Hawkeye just would have been in this in the middle with a bow and arrow he definitely would have at least been standing on top of something and I get that's one of the moments where it's like you fill it in with your imagination you just kind of understand like how the story is going but that was enough to kind of make me stop it's like
00:24:22
Speaker
At least they build it up a little bit, not all of them being dumb enough to stand in the middle of a zombie circle. No, from what I understand about zombie movies, people are pretty much fairly stupid in them. That's how everybody becomes a zombie. Yeah. Well, if recent events have taught us anything. We might be on our way to a zombie apocalypse at this point.
00:24:47
Speaker
Not a genius now, are you, Mr. Stark? What did you think overall, Andrew? I thought it was a fun episode all around. I'm on board with zombies, all that stuff, and they had a lot of fun with the characters. I will say I feel like this was the first episode that I felt was really hurt by being only a half hour long. I don't think I ever really got endeared enough to any of the set pieces, any of the
00:25:11
Speaker
differences in our characters like I wanted more time to understand what vision was going through and they just kind of threw vision at us said oh he's kind of bad and then threw him back off screen they didn't have enough time to really develop any of that yeah it was still great all around but I think this one could have used a two-parter a little bit of a longer runtime
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah, I was actually, I was trying really hard to wait to say that on the cast, but somebody had said something on the Stranded Panda chat that was like, no, I can't wait, I gotta type this up. And it's exactly the same sentiment that you said, like, I would have wanted this one to have been at least an hour, because this was the first time that MCU really dipped their toes into the horror stuff. And it
Crafting Suspense and Horror
00:25:55
Speaker
would have been really cool to like,
00:25:56
Speaker
build up the suspense a little more and build up the intensity of what was about to happen, especially with Wanda. She was... Baba Yaga was terrifying.
00:26:07
Speaker
I didn't laugh at Baba Yaga. I didn't realize that character was supposed to be that... I didn't remember that character's name from the movies. I tried looking at it. And I was like, okay, hey, Kurt, like, whatever. And then when he said Baba Yaga, I was like, oh, that was the winner. That dude. Yeah, it was interesting that they brought him and them all people.
00:26:30
Speaker
I liked it because it was super random yeah overall they did a good job and like I'll be honest I like Halloween stuff but I'm a little bitch when it comes to like horror stuff like I want to enjoy horror things but I don't like being scared um this this was really well done I yeah it was not scary yeah it was suspenseful
00:26:54
Speaker
Yeah, they didn't jump scare you, but they did a good job of setting the expectations out. Peter did jump scare somebody. He said that he jump scared someone. Sorry, jump scare. That vision did the same. Wait, where did he come from? But no, I was saying that the expectations were set out the gate of letting our heroes die, kind of let us know that no one was safe. And I think that was it.
00:27:20
Speaker
That was a good call to not make us be like, okay, our heroes are just going to make it to the end. They're going to find a cure and everything's going to be better. You were kind of questioning it, which I think was smart writing on Marvel's part. They always do a good job with it. And when Hope went down and she was giant, I was like, well, this is going to be bad, you guys. Yeah, shrink her back down, please. I was like, did you not?
00:27:43
Speaker
Like the dudes on your face like that wasn't a hint to like shrink down and die as a tiny person Like could you have injected your wings or something before you I was like, oh this she's gonna get up big. She's totally gonna hope Hope this is the second episode that she has indirectly caused Problems that has caused the Avengers to die. Yeah Hank has done it directly twice. Yeah, what's Hank's problem? Honestly, I
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, although I will say that that is a pull from the he's one of the main ones and the comic issue that we read on source pages. He's like he's actually the one eating T'Challa, which is super gross.
00:28:25
Speaker
for T'Challa. And speaking of eating T'Challa, did you guys notice that when the Avengers walked out of the quinjet that Captain America, Iron Man, and T'Challa were all there together? And this was supposed to be set just at the start of Infinity War. Why are Cap and Tony talking to each other? Why is T'Challa not in Wakanda? What happened differently in this universe that led to there not being the blowout of the Avengers?
00:28:55
Speaker
all of those other things that were leading into the stunning start of this episode, I will say, the shot for shot remake of Infinity War was amazing. But them throwing that little nod of it being at that period in time, I found it interesting that they also let the Avengers still be together and not blown up by Zemo. I think just like how half the universe disappearing was enough of a reason for them to work together,
00:29:21
Speaker
Um, a giant zombie apocalypse was kind of similar. It's like, Hey, we need to put our differences aside and just kind of get to this. That was my head cannon for it. I just thought it was different because it was a different thing. I thought it was cool that Black Widow was in her, was in her vest with so many pockets and her short blonde hair, but Cap actually like shapes before him. I honestly don't even know if I noticed her. She was, she was standing right next to Cap. It was Hawkeye.
00:29:51
Speaker
Nat, Cap, Tony, and then T'Challa. See, I think that goes to the pacing things you guys were talking about. I feel like there are things I missed, and I don't necessarily want to rewatch it. That's what you have recap episodes with two other people for. Right. Yes, educate me. There were little things, but this one was not a big Easter egg episode, so I don't think you're missing out on much by not rewatching. I didn't even notice Nat, though. That's pretty bad.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, because she didn't come back after that. Yeah, we didn't see her again. I didn't see her at all. Oh, so Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast has been talking about like having the rights to someone's face. And like maybe they didn't have it for Black Widow on on the What if the Avengers died episode.
Spider-Man's Role in Zombie Episode
00:30:42
Speaker
And for this one, I feel like Spider-Man looked more like the Spider-Man video game face than he did Tom Holland. That's pretty accurate, I would say. Was it Tom Holland's voice?
00:30:55
Speaker
It was not, and that's actually one of my notes, is he did a fantastic job being our Spider-Man, talking about animation. We should probably give some credit to the voice actors. I think Spider-Man was one of the only voice actors that did, or Tom Holland, rather, was one of the only voice actors that didn't come back for this episode, and it was beautifully seamless. Yeah, I thought it was him. Damn it, Sony. Give a Spidey back. Jay Scott, he's the guy who looks at like everyone's names.
00:31:25
Speaker
on the back end while I'm just like so focused on what I'm looking at. So my apologies for that. I know it was Thomas something because I tried to look it up and then Oh, so they just got their Tom's mixed up. Oh, we thought you were Tom Holland. Can you can you do a good impression? We're kind of on the clock here.
00:31:43
Speaker
I mean, you called us on the phone. You said your name was Tom. You sounded like Tom. Tom Holland's, like, tied up in a closet and he's just pretending to be him. He needs help. Oh, too funny. I wasn't expecting to see Happy. I thought it was a very interesting, like, New Avengers team.
00:32:04
Speaker
I loved the happy stuff. I loved his t-shirt. I need that t-shirt. I bet somebody's already made that t-shirt. Hey, now you can remind me. I'm not single. I'm saving myself for Thor. Oh, wow. That's awesome. What was the sound effect he was making? Blam. Blam, blam. When he came back to zombies, he was like, blam. Watching with subtitles, it was so good.
00:32:34
Speaker
Agreed. Even Sharon was like, are you saying blam for all your shots? He didn't know though. He was like, am I? It's like the reports of people in Star Wars when they get to shoot a blaster and they say, pew, pew. The directions have to be like, stop saying that. I could see like Tony leaving a note for the gauntlet saying like, it only works if you say blam and happy falling for it.
00:33:02
Speaker
That was actually the gauntlet from in Civil War as well. It had the little watch face that he tapped on when he had to I Thought it look different, but I didn't think that far into it good observation, but There's your Easter egg. We were looking for there you go. That's the one that you missed Also to give the actor credit his name is not Tom. It is Hudson Thames and
00:33:27
Speaker
I believe I'm pronouncing that correctly. And the last name, apparently, when I was reading it quickly, I took as Thomas. Hudson Thames did a fantastic job being our interim Spider-Man. Way to go, Hudson. I'm wondering if he's like, if his actual voice is British now, too. Says he was born in LA. LA. He's a young'un like you, Zuhair. I'm not the youngest one here this time. I know.
00:33:56
Speaker
Let's move on. So yeah, who did we have on the New Avengers? We had Bucky, Spider-Man, Happy, Sharon, Okoye. What was the Russian dude's name? Kurt. I love Mark Ruffalo. Him just like flipping out, just like, I just got back to Earth. What is going on? I've been gone for like five years.
00:34:24
Speaker
But I love that he immediately knows something's up. He's like, oh no. This is kind of sad. Yeah, where'd it go, Tony? Oh, oh, oh. And then the ants come in and start eating. That's gross. No. It's like, oh, you can trust them. I can trust trying ants. And where did the ants go? They could have been very helpful. Where did they come from? Where did they go? Where did they come from, anti-Joe?
00:34:49
Speaker
I'm sorry that I survived, but I knew that that was coming. That's my fault. I didn't want to, but I had to. I know, I know. I support you in it. Yeah. I was thinking it didn't work. So about Baba Yaga, she scared me.
00:35:09
Speaker
like hot damn but no man the way she was introduced was really cool too because we're seeing Bucky like with his arm and the shield for the first time he's going off slowly just turn around fires a shot it's that little spotlight over her I was like oh no
00:35:30
Speaker
He's like, don't wake her up, please. She hasn't eaten in days. Oh, why hadn't she eaten in days if T'Challa was there for her to eat? I was so confused. I didn't want her to eat him, but I'm just saying, why hadn't she eaten for days? I think Vision was keeping her on a diet.
00:35:51
Speaker
just
Vision and Wanda's Relationship
00:35:52
Speaker
well that's sexist i mean he doesn't know better angry for flesh but yes they were having trouble like breaking through the vibranium they had to keep like scaling it off and then going for the meat it's like you peel back the candy wrapper i don't like it
00:36:15
Speaker
And this is why I don't like zombies. Ew. So now she was really cool, especially when Kurt yelled Baba Yaga and he had like the red light and everything behind her. And she's just like, oh, this is making me so uncomfortable. Well done. So you asked why Kurt was there. You could probably convince me that the writers came up with the Baba Yaga joke and then said, OK, we're going to have to write in Kurt. Definitely. You're so right. Just so that we can talk about Baba Yaga again.
00:36:46
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad they did. Yeah, it was a smart move. I think the only other thing I would want to see is like, when Bruce asks, like, what's going on, like, it pauses and Louise just pops out in the corner and gives a rundown of what happened. And I mean, I guess the Watcher did okay at explaining everything. But so Louise in the Watcher team up movie? Oh, my gosh, recapping everything. He's just he's on the ground spy for a lot too. And he's busy in a different
00:37:15
Speaker
universe. He takes over when the Watchers have to retire. There you go. Oh, also, poor Ant-Man. It's like, oh, hey, my friend's alive. Now he's dead. Oh, hey, the love of my life of the die. Oh, no, she's a zombie. Like, he didn't get a single moment with any of his loved ones. Yeah, but Scott must have only been like, bitten and not fully infected, right? Because otherwise, his head wouldn't be all normal.
00:37:42
Speaker
Or did Vision fixing him like, fix his face? Because everybody else was like, with their teeth and stuff. I guess they fixed his face. You know what I'm saying? His head was normal, like a human. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I know what you're saying, but I don't know. They didn't really explain the cure all that well. No. Just that it didn't work on Baba Yaga.
00:38:09
Speaker
But his his dad jokes were fantastic. Like, I need to check in with Jeff and see how you responded to all of those. It's like, Oh, how would wish for Hank to just chew me up? I can't stop. I'm sorry. He was humor to cope with my pain. He was so wonderful. I loved all of his alliances. Just
00:38:36
Speaker
And he said, uh, when Guardian love, he also, when he flew out with the cape. I laughed so hard both times watching that was so perfect. Like in the most dire situations, like he's just saying all the right things. By saying all the wrong things. I do want to see Hulk versus Wanda now. Like how that fight would actually play out.
00:39:07
Speaker
He was holding his own. I know she was a zombie, but they all seem to kind of hold their powers through the transformation. Yeah. So.
00:39:17
Speaker
And I was genuinely terrified when the Quinjet flew over Wasp. Scott was having a sad moment and everything, and you see the projectile coming, and I was like, oh no, the ship's gonna crash, what's about to happen? I just started laughing at it when I realized everything was okay. I thought it was gonna go into the turbine and scratch it up, and then we're gonna crash land and go on a run sequence, but nah, they made it funny. I do have another question coming out of that end sequence that
00:39:47
Speaker
Again, I hate to keep poking holes in Marvel stuff, but are we really saying Vision could have taken out the Mind Stone that whole time? I know we don't trade lives. I know we don't trade lives. But that was a big deal that Wanda had to do it for him and she couldn't bring herself to do it. So him just popping it out and handing it off so they could get the cure. He didn't destroy the stone though. Wanda actually had to destroy the stone. He just
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. I guess that makes more sense. Yeah, he unplugged the cord. Okay. So Thanos, like which stone was Thanos missing? Because he was only missing one. Nevermind.
00:40:30
Speaker
the mind stone that they had from... Well, that makes sense. You know, when you say it out loud like that. Yeah. Sorry, I did not mean to make that so interesting. No, don't be sorry. That's me and my brain going to die. I didn't mean for it to come out like that either, but I was like...
00:40:55
Speaker
Oh wait, you're talking about it? Like in the Captain Carter episode, I'm like, why couldn't she have helped do a shield and Scotty and Zoo were like, because she was gone? Why do you invite me here? Uh, yeah, I'm guessing like, I'm guessing Thanos like arrived on Earth and was like, Oh, hey, there's a skeleton of strange. Here's the time stone pops it in. And then all these zombies just come up. He's like, Oh, crap.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Like, for him to get overwhelmed- I didn't notice a strange had it or not when he was a zombie. He probably did. But for him to be overwhelmed with Five Infinity Stones was kind of sad. I feel like, dude, you had the power stone. I don't know, maybe because the Black Order was all taken by zombies, perhaps the Black Order helped take Thanos down? Oh, maybe. They were just like, what's up, kiddos? And they just, like, sneak up on him. Yeah, we saw in the T'Challa episode exactly how powerful they were against him.
00:41:56
Speaker
By the way, this being, like, PG-13 and everything, I'm convinced that if they, like, knocked up the rating for this, when Tony came out and just blasted the back of Ebony to Ma's head, like, he killed him. He straight up killed him at that moment. Like, no. He wasn't trying to knock him out. That dude is dead. And then, Infinity War, the real movie?
00:42:20
Speaker
No, in this.
Avengers vs. Zombies
00:42:21
Speaker
Or in this episode. Because they opened up the portal and you see like Tony's hand come out. I don't remember that part. So, Ebony Ma was like giving a speech, the portal opens up behind him, Iron Man's hand comes out and literally just blows him in the back of the head. And it like just knocked him down as I do air quotes. Well, he's pretty powerful. And then he immediately turned into a zombie though. So I think there was an implication that he killed him in that moment.
00:42:47
Speaker
the the silhouette intro was really cool because both the sling rings opened up and then Wong and uh Dr. Strange come out he comes flying out for his little like jump move his uh his poser moment if you will such a poser it's called a superman punch but it feels wrong calling it that because it's iron when disney buys dc we can call it what we want yeah buy sony first yes buy sony first
00:43:13
Speaker
I don't know how I feel about that. You don't know how to feel about them owning Spiderman?
00:43:18
Speaker
No, Spider-Man is fine, but I don't know how I feel about them owning everything else Sony has done. Things that won't be on Disney+. I mean, they own a lot of that Fox stuff now. See if Morbid's ever comes out. Bucky having a fight cap was pretty sad. The line at the end was what killed me. I guess this is the end of the road. I liked it. It made me laugh. What? That's funny. Everything he said was dripping with irony.
00:43:45
Speaker
Yeah. Now we're finding how dark you are. I like the humor in this episode. I'm the dark one. You don't even know Andrew. I'm sure I'll be finding out as this goes on. I mean I listen to source pages, I have some idea. Just watching like Cap like slide into it Haley's like ha ha.
00:44:09
Speaker
I don't like going zombies. Oh, look, he's dead. Well, the blind, what does he say when Okoye kills Falcon? She's like, sorry, that was your friend or whatever. And he's like, yeah, I wanted to feel bad. That was great. That was so funny. I mean, at that point, they weren't teammates yet. That was still the guy that wouldn't move his seat up for him. I liked it. Yeah, I guess Bucky was in the cryo tube and.
00:44:39
Speaker
Sam was out with Cap. Because he was hanging out in Wakanda up until Infinity War. They had to take him out early to fight some zombies. It's cool how much Falcon and the Winter Soldier and WandaVision vibes they put into this. Both of those moments established themselves in Civil War and Infinity War.
00:44:59
Speaker
having experienced those two shows kind of like amplified those moments a lot more. Oh, for sure. I think my last little plot hole was if there's a big force field around Wakanda, how do zombies know there's people inside of it? Because I doubt the what's the word pheromones spread through force fields, but I'm not a force field scientist, so I don't know.
00:45:23
Speaker
Well, that part was a little hand wavy. But didn't they show Thanos at the end inside the force field? He was in New York. Oh, I took it as they were flying into Wakanda as Thanos was waiting for them. And two and a half Avengers were gonna have to fight Thanos. No, he was he was on New York while they were on their way to Wakanda. Okay. I was with you, Andrew.
00:45:47
Speaker
I was like, dang, like this ended this ended very poorly. Like I said, there's only been one positive conclusion in five episodes. Yeah, I mean, they left it. And this is really me stretching for a theory here. It was specifically a quad jet and not a quinjet. Yeah.
Future Speculations
00:46:09
Speaker
And quad jets are what they use to go to space quinjets are what they use to stay on Earth.
00:46:15
Speaker
So in the event they were to do a part two, they could open it to find the Guardians, to have them help or something. I don't know. It felt weirdly specific that they said it was a quad yet. But also, I don't think I need the part two of Two and a Half Avengers. Sounds like a bad sitcom. Well, they didn't have Thor. That was a bad sitcom. They didn't have Thor with them. So Thor is obviously in space. So it could end up doing OK. Yeah.
00:46:45
Speaker
Carol's out there as well. Yeah, yeah. Got a chance. You have a real good chance with Thor and Carol on your side. I feel like they're just not even gonna make their way back to Earth. They're like, uh, forget that. Thor shows up a Stormbreaker, like...
00:47:02
Speaker
The car's fine. Just leaves. Nope. Well, we've had two kind of downer episodes. I hope that we go on an upswing with these last five episodes. I don't know. I said I hope. I'm trying not to look at the names of the episodes for surprise purposes, so I can't give you any of the hope. I don't really know what's coming next. I've seen them, but I forgot. So I don't know what's going to happen.
00:47:31
Speaker
Yeah, I because I try to watch them at the crack of dawn, which for me, anything that anytime that follows am is cracked on the 1159 anytime Zuhair opens his eyes, it's the crack of dawn, basically. So like, I just kind of wake up, go in, hit play. I mean, obviously, I saw the zombie posters. I wonder if this is obvious. But like, for
00:47:56
Speaker
For the Doctor Strange episode, I heard Disciple of Dormammu so many times that it was engraved in my head, and I thought that's what the episode was about, so I was like, once Dormammu coming back, once Dormammu. I was getting so mad.
00:48:10
Speaker
What the heck was the name of this episode? And then when I finished that, I went back and I was like, I hate people so much. Why do I listen to people? There were elements of that comic book, um, in that episode, but it wasn't, it definitely wasn't a play by play of it, but his, him going into the dark dimension, taking that power is definitely from that, that issue.
00:48:36
Speaker
Yeah, but just from the trailer, seeing the two versions of Doctor Strange, I just heard that phrase so much that it was engraved in my brain. Did not appreciate it. So I will continue to not read the names. This is why the internet's terrible. Don't go on the internet. It's scary out there. I don't want to know anything about Spider-Man, but I know everything about Spider-Man. It's terrible. We know nothing about Spider-Man, Andrew.
00:49:04
Speaker
I hope so. Just keep telling yourself that. And tell me anything about Spider-Man. I'll listen to it. Which one's Spider-Man? He's the one in the black suit. Oh, OK. With the teeth. Yeah. Is that carnage? Shh. Carnage is right. Anyways. Yeah, I wasn't going to say it, but yeah. That was the joke. I didn't
Concluding Thoughts and Feedback
00:49:30
Speaker
get it. It was a bad one, I'm sorry.
00:49:34
Speaker
Everything goes over our heads. We are the anti-tracks. Any other points you guys want to mention on these two episodes? I'm sure I'll remember something right after we're done. We can write in feedback. Yeah!
00:49:55
Speaker
if we don't have you on we'll read it off oh that's a great way to say if you guys do want to send in feedback animation deliberation podcast at gmail.com feel free to write in and don't forget your five star reviews to put in that raffle for a contest we will be reading them off as jay skydie comes back because i want him to cry over them as much as i do um haley any exciting projects going on in your show
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, my good friend Brian B. Klein and I do the source pages post and we just finished recording our review and comparison of Shang-Chi and the comic runs that we covered for that awesome movie. We are going to end up doing some retrospectives coming up since we have kind of this little break in content before
00:50:39
Speaker
Dune and Eternals come out. And so we're going to look back at comic runs for WandaVision, Falcon and Winter Soldier, and Loki. So if you want to be interested in reading those or just, you know, following our schedule on that, follow our social medias. We're on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Source Pages podcast.
00:51:00
Speaker
And Andrew, have you thought of anything to plug yet? I mean, at this point, I'm close enough to just plugging this podcast because I think I'm here more than anywhere. No, I mean, everyone listen to these wonderful podcasts. I am also a listener of source pages. I'm not just here.
00:51:17
Speaker
talking to Haley, they do a fantastic job. So like she said, go and listen to them. I'll give you the feedback right here live on the air. It's a fantastic show. And they do a wonderful job of going over the comics. And I will also say from a listener perspective, I was fearful at first of getting spoiled of things. But then again, you realize that Marvel does a great job of differentiating from comics. So instead, you get this fresh perspective from Haley and BBK.
00:51:46
Speaker
and then you also get to enjoy the show after so you get a double perspective you can talk about it with your friends more you can sound really smart like a comic reader and you can also read along with them so they do a great job and then like i said i'm just here whenever zuhair and jay scotty asked me to be so this would be the only other thing i would plug but also
00:52:05
Speaker
We kind of talked about it last time right in feedback for what if both good and bad, because we're all talking the greatness of the show. And if there's people who have kind of complaints, I would be at least a little curious to hear what they are. And if we want to talk about them and what we think of them, I think that's awesome too. But I'm curious to know where the other side of the conversation is coming from as well.
00:52:30
Speaker
For sure. Everything's not for everybody, something I think we forget sometimes. And that's OK. You have a respectful portrayal of your opinion. Everybody's got opinions. You just got to share it. You don't have to agree with each other. Just listen to each other and move on. Shizzle.
00:52:52
Speaker
Hailey, I actually did listen to the Shang-Chi episodes, and I think one of her feedbacks actually was what Andrew said regarding them sounding smart. I feel like they took little points on what you said, so it's kind of cool hearing him solidify what other people have spoken up on. Yeah, it's been super fun.
00:53:11
Speaker
And then Andrew mentioned this last time he was on as well, but if you guys are in an area where it is possible and it is safe to do so, please go check out Chung Chi in theaters because that movie is fan bleeping-tastic. I'm super excited to watch it again. And yeah, it's a great movie. It's definitely top tier MCU. And I'm very excited for the future of the MCU with that.
00:53:40
Speaker
Everything I could have wanted and more. Yeah. And also make sure to listen to the instant reaction on the MCU cast that Zuhair was a part of. I finally got to be on it. I thought I was going to be talking about animation stuff and I was like, cool. I got to be a dude, an immigrant dude that got to talk about Asian culture and martial arts and stuff. Like I couldn't have lined up any better. It was a perfect fit. Yeah.
00:54:08
Speaker
Go listen to it. It was awesome. I'm like excited again just thinking about the fact I got to do that and watch that movie because, God, that movie was good. Yeah, I need to go see it again for the third time. All right, let's go right now. All right, so we're going to go watch the movie. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Send in your feedback, write in your reviews. Tune in next time, and I'll always stay well.
00:54:30
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash svchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
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Speaker
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