Transcript
Speaker: Casual Nerdity is a podcast celebrating and discussing the pop culture that we love. Movies, TVs, comics, books, games, you name it. Our aim is to talk about the good, what worked, and yeah, sometimes what didn't.
Speaker: All with an eye towards building up, not tearing down. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker: Welcome back to Casual Nerdity, everybody, and our Clone Watch series series. Good to be back. As always, I am Daryl. I'm Nick.
Speaker: I'm Lauren. And I'm back! Betsy's back! Betsy held us at gunpoint ah for this one. Mm-hmm. Basically, yeah. And said, I need to be here.
Speaker: I had things that I needed to say. It was a requirement. You'll see. So many things. So many of the things to be said. Maximum thing saying.
Speaker: Yeah, there may be like multiple paragraphs of me you just, you know, word vomiting onto this Google Doc. It's fine. don't worry about it. would Take a deep breath between sentences.
Speaker: I'll try not to talk too fast. I mean, we're we're kind of used to it, but... It's true, you are. But ah before we dive in what all have...
Speaker: have we all been up to since we last gathered to watch the clones?
Speaker: I mean, i obviously i saw Thunderbolts because Nick and I did the Thunderbolts episode for the last episode. Thunderbolts was good. um Then of course there is Andor that just ended. Star Wars dead now again.
Speaker: Yep. Star Wars is dead. We'll never get another good Star War again. no now Now we need the edgy, grimdark remake of the original trilogy.
Speaker: Oh, of course. We already have that. It's called Rebel Moon. And it'll be in live action this time. but But wait, how many hallelujahs in slow motion will there be? yeah Okay, so...
Speaker: so Nick, did did you send anyone else that video? No, I didn't. i but you could so So Nick sent me a video. You know how the new Superman trailer dropped this week, right? Mm-hmm. Somebody, within hours of it dropping... On Reddit.
Speaker: Posted on Reddit, ah I fixed the Superman trailer. And it's black and white. It's in 4-3 aspect ratio. Yeah. aspect ratio um And it's recut to Hallelujah.
Speaker: but Wait, is it black and white or is it that like dingy brownish gray color? it's It's black and white. It's black and white. I'll have Nick send you the link.
Speaker: so ok I guess that's more like Sin City or something. but yeah i was hoping for that dingy brown color that goes over everything that he likes to use for God knows what reason.
Speaker: And then suddenly goes to black and white out of nowhere. Well, remember, he did the black and white cut of of Justice League. That's true. He sure did. So that are that's what it's all referencing.
Speaker: So, oh, it it was it was pure genius. The only thing that it was missing was excessive slow-mo.
Speaker: Nice. Well, as for me, ah the Toho 20 demo came out not too long ago. And so I've been playing through that, getting some ideas for the next ah Toho tabletop game that ah we might be doing in the imminent future.
Speaker: ah I've also been playing ah the Make Good Mega Man level games where ah people would submit their own Mega Man levels. ah it's ah It's a fan game.
Speaker: ah The original game had 20 entries, and then there were judges who then made their own endgame levels afterwards. And there's three main games now. The third game is the one that I'm currently working on.
Speaker: And there are 170 entries into the contest to play through. How is that all? Right on. So I have been working through that progressively. in In the recent months, I've played through game.
Speaker: two and multiple different side games. So over the past couple months, I've played through probably close to like 300 Mega Man levels now.
Speaker: There's so many of them. And and beat on game each of the actual Mega Man games, they typically only have about like 12 to 13 levels in them.
Speaker: So it's a lot of video game in these video games. That sure does sound like a lot of video games. Oh, yeah. Speaking about video games, ah I have ah have a monitor and speakers for my gaming PC.
Speaker: And who helped you get that monitor and those speakers? You did. Yeah! Now, are they connected? You know the answer to that.
Speaker: Have you turned the computer on?
Speaker: No. ah Well, will you be downloading... Okay, did you connect them by yourself or did Lauren connect them for you? No, I connected them myself. I even unboxed them myself.
Speaker: Wow! oh And they didn't, like, just, you know, spontaneously combust? No, that's this why letting it settle. Well, Nick, next next time that I come over to your place, I'm going to be downloading a bunch of Toho games onto your computer and I'll be expecting you to play them like the true gamer that you'll be.
Speaker: you You must defeat all of the anime girls. You must dodge all of the rain. Start with that one. And then you will become a true gamer.
Speaker: Just like me.
Speaker: You will ascend to the next tier of gamer. Yes. Oh. That's, you know, a lot of interesting stuff you guys have been doing. I've been doing working, eating, sleeping, and paying far too much attention to the baby owls that just fledged from the owl box that my mom has. Have you been breathing oxygen?
Speaker: Yes, yes, I have. At least I sure hope so. but If not, then, you know, I have questions and I don't know if I want answers. Because, you know, you mentioned eating and sleeping, but i wasn't sure if you were breathing or not.
Speaker: ah You know what? I've only ever seen an owl once in my backyard. Oh, yeah? How about squirrels? Oh, you didn't just see those in your backyard, did you, Nick?
Speaker: He saw them everywhere. He sees them in his nightmares. Hold on. You guys need to, on the How We Roll podcast, have an episode where you talk about the squirrel incident. If you haven't already. We have not, but perhaps we should.
Speaker: needs to happen. Does that it's classify as an RPG horror story, Nick? In a way. think it's a good story, at least for me.
Speaker: It's related to RPGs. You're welcome. Specifically your impacts in that, and you're you're very much a part of that. Whenever your RPG session gets interrupted by ah absurd scenarios.
Speaker: That's not a I don't think we have other examples of that. and That's probably the most miserable one that we can all share. How many players does it take to catch a squirrel?
Speaker: Eight. So many. Well, um but but we just say the answer to that depends greatly upon your point of view. True. There are a lot people present, but yeah, I caught the squirrel.
Speaker: It only takes one player. The player has to be Betsy.
Speaker: I mean, if the squirrel hadn't been like you know chased around and traumatized, we could have just left some peanut butter out and waited. I still stand by that. I don't disagree with you. It's just like we we didn't know that I mean, by the time I walked in the door, there was already all sorts of slapstick going on. heard you guys could have had it for 30 minutes before even got there. walked in with food and my food was cold. I was the last one who showed up.
Speaker: Yeah, you showed up like maybe ah two minutes or so after I did. but By the time we had arrived, everything had already been ruined. But that that is a story, a full story for a later day on the How We Roll Gaming podcast. and tara And I'll need harder alcohol for that one.
Speaker: Yes. Does harder alcohol exist?
Speaker: Yes. I mean, you know, just treat it like a normal game with us where you're we do something that makes you go get the bottle. Right. Wouldn't be the first time. Or the second time. Or the third time.
Speaker: Or the last. Okay, so I i think i we have established on on the How We Roll Gaming podcast that when we start making fun of Nick, that means that the show is over.
Speaker: um We can't make fun of him yet. Yeah, we can't make fun of him too badly yet. Okay. Well, this is not the How We Roll podcast. This is a different one, so the rules don't apply. True. This is a different rule set.
Speaker: Yeah, but we we do have have a lot of of walls of text that a certain guest host has written in the show notes.
Speaker: This is true. What are you talking about? Who did that? I mean, there's there's a reason we've been calling this episode The Betsy Show. We're going go up to Spider-Man. You'll be like, you'll never crawl this wall. and We'll show him your text.
Speaker: It's a lot of text. is but But it's very, very cool. We're very excited. It is. It's excellent. Excellent analysis that we should be sharing with people now.
Speaker: Yes. ed So we're going to be going over the first Dathomir arc this time. And we'll be going over it before our next episode where Clone Wars gets really weird in the next arc.
Speaker: But up today, we have Nightsisters, which is season three, episode 12, Monster season three, episode 13, and Witches of the Mist season three, episode 14.
Speaker: Before we dive in, though, we always recap what it is that we're doing here, and we forgot to do that. So what are we doing this? Because I've never watched this series before, so it's my first time going through it.
Speaker: Yay! And we're going through it in front of logical order because I'm... Because you're a sadist and you're a cruel taskmaster.
Speaker: I'm going to start calling you Dreykov. I die i die in the in the in the first act of Thunderbolts. Yep. Ding. Okay, then you close the ding. hey Hang on, hang on Nick, Thunderbolts has only been out for two weeks, so... yeah, you can't say that yet.
Speaker: Spoilers. So instead, we'll just have to call you Darth Apathous. Or is it Darth Apathy? Yeah. It depends on the translation.
Speaker: That's true. So ah we will dive in ah for those of you that do want to follow along with our watch along and, and recaps.
Speaker: There is a link in the show notes to the chronological viewing order and Nick is evil. Just want to throw that in one last time. Of course. um So first up night sisters season three, episode 12 count. Dooku is ordered to eliminate Asajj Ventress.
Speaker: Yes, and opening up, Ventress' ship is back! It sure is. Like, I may be a lover of all winged ships, and just FYI X-Wings are superior to all the other starfighters, but you gotta admit, the Banshee is sick as fuck.
Speaker: It first appeared in the 2003 micro-series that introduced us to it as Ventress in the first place. And yes, it's sick AF, especially in this art style. yeah and then And then we see Dooku's castle.
Speaker: And that's pretty good. And in it, he's having a conversation with a mysterious individual. Who could it be? Yes, yes. I mean, we we know it's Darth Sidious.
Speaker: Technically, Lauren doesn't know who it technically doesn't know who it is. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. It's a complete mystery to me. I've never seen anything about this at all. And so...
Speaker: Yeah, wait until you figure who Darth Vader is, because no one knows that one. Whoa! Darth So, uh, yeah. Never heard of Darth Vader before. Have no idea who that is.
Speaker: if If I had known this conversation was going to happen, I would have that Simpsons clip queued up. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. We know, we'll just fill it in.
Speaker: Yeah, they're having a conversation about Ventress and Dooku she's important to me. and To which Sidious replies, too important. And so, you know, the Sith are now being forced to forego attachment, which is kind of counterintuitive to the whole Sith deal, but I think some of y'all have a little bit of something to say about that. Yeah, it's almost like Dooku does care.
Speaker: Well, I mean, kind of. Sort of. and In his own way. It does kind of echo back to the Jedi rule against attachment. Again, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme, every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one.
Speaker: Hopefully it'll work. And Sidious also sure seems to be pretty concerned that Dooku is positioning Ventress to assassinate him, you know, like the Sith are supposed to do. Shrug emoji.
Speaker: yeah And it relates to the major themes of the arc, but that's a bit of foresadowing. Yeah, because foreshadowing is a literary device. Okay, anyway, so as they're fleeing Ventress, of course, Obi has to drop the line.
Speaker: you know, looks like I'm her favorite as Ventress is chasing him specifically down over Anakin. And honestly, like, do I need to even say anything? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, know... writes itself. Yeah, Obi-Wan totally would have been down for a threesome with Satine and Ventress.
Speaker: Yes, this is the pairing that I'm going with because chronological research and... Spoilers. you But... So we... Ventress...
Speaker: It shoots down Obi-Wan's ship. Her ship is damaged too. And let's take a little bit of a listen to what happens ah when she reaches out to Dooku for help.
Speaker: Master, I need your help quickly. i'm surrounded. You have already lost the battle, child. I've ordered your reinforcements to return.
Speaker: No! i will destroy the Jedi. I'll show you. You have failed me for the last time. You are no longer my apprentice.
Speaker: And now, you shall die. That's not very good. Ventress, no longer the apprentice.
Speaker: And then I've got down here Dooku sacrificing all forces. I don't remember exactly what that was. That whole capital ship gets blowed up real good.
Speaker: Right, yes. I suppose when you just go to a factory and make more of them, it's not a big deal. So like Kamino. Yes. it And then i've I've also got down here double force choke.
Speaker: Oh yeah, that's during the fight with we With Anakin and Oyo on it. It really does show that Dooku wasn't kidding. She's got the power in her. Yeah, and now our our special guest has has some thoughts here. So so I'm just going to to sit back and say, take it away, Betsy.
Speaker: Alright. So, uh, first of all, my goodness! An apprentice being betrayed by their own Sith Master? The Master they spent countless hours betraying them in the dark side? The Master they spent years serving? The Master that they risked their life for over and over?
Speaker: The Master they truly believed was the only person they could trust? How awful for Dooku to do that to Ventress. I mean, just can't imagine how terrible that would feel to know you never really were an apprentice, just a tool to be used and discarded at someone else's convenience.
Speaker: And worse, to have someone you always thought was on your side to be the one to condemn you to die? geez sure that never opens to anyone else. Anyway, foreshadowing is a literary device. Also, something, something, it's like poetry and rhymes. Yeah, poetry, so that they rhyme.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But no, it's just when she's fighting Obi-Wan and Anakin, like, can we just talk about her visible desperation? Like, usually she's just so detached and blase, and lot like Obi-Wan, she spends as much time clipping as she does fighting.
Speaker: But now we can see her actually express a genuine emotion for, like, the first time ever. And for that emotion of all things to be fear, like, just that she knows what's coming.
Speaker: Very sithy. Mm-hmm. Like, I know I said all that about the irony and Dooku giving the order to kill Ventress, and, you know, blah blah blah spoilers, etc. But also, like, this is gonna be kind of spoilery.
Speaker: Can I get into this, Daryl? Yeah. Okay. So with Pop of Palpatine, he made sure Dooku was dead, like, He was there in person to give the order for Annie to merc Dooku. He saw the body.
Speaker: He knew it was over. Meanwhile, Dooku just kind of had the droids try to blow up the ship and kill her with no way to definitively confirm her death and took their word for it when reporting back to Palpy. Like, am I the only one who feels that maybe there was like some level of intentionality there on Dooku's part?
Speaker: Like, you know, he followed orders and made sure to do so in a manner where she survived. He'd have plausible deniability. And also, maybe she'd have the chance to disappear so Palpatine couldn't actually make sure she got killed.
Speaker: Just saying. I mean, he reported her dead, so what you're saying is what Dooku told Palpatine was true from a certain point of view. Dooku!
Speaker: ah Before I get into my remark, just an out of moment thing. I was correct in like, you very much when you write, it is your voice speaking.
Speaker: Oh yeah. Yep. I just wanted to note that because sometimes when people read what I write, it's like, that's not how you normally speak. That's just how I write things out.
Speaker: Yeah. But the Sith are always betraying one another. They can have a leg up off. ah only for it to blow up in their face. Literally, in this case. Yeah, but also, I gotta wonder, like, was having the droids do it, and never really seeing a body, confirming himself, a way for him to try and, like, maybe absolve himself of responsibility and guilt?
Speaker: Like, Yeah, sure, he gave the order, but he wasn't the one to pull the trigger, so clearly it wasn't his fault. Plus, if he didn't see a body, then I guess part of him could always pretend she survived and absolve himself of even further guilt.
Speaker: You know, kind of like Billy Dee Williams' whole, did anyone die thing? And if that were true, do you think he ever admitted that to himself? But I digress. Are you a bro- Are you implying that there's like a a heart inside of the evil Count Dooku?
Speaker: That maybe he's a hero on another side? Well, let's not get crazy. He might have an internal organ in there, but he doesn't seem to be using it a whole lot.
Speaker: It's almost like everyone is the hero of their own story. What? What? I'm the villain of my story. I'm following all of that up with um something completely different and far less consequential.
Speaker: The tactical droid saying, by your command. I see you shouting out old school Battlestar Galactica. And now I must run to scribble down an RPG idea for original series Cylons in the Star Wars galaxy.
Speaker: Be right back. I'll shut up and take my money. So yeah, moving on in the narrative, Ventress is thought dead, but then she's picked up by some scavengers.
Speaker: The scavengers are using a similar scavenging ship from the R2-D2-O. who is missing Ark. A cool choice, and further so is how ambitious scrappers are taking advantage of the larger galactic war, as these large warships, even though they seem to be worthless to the Sephardists, must have value in the Outer Rim.
Speaker: And I wonder if any of them picked up Sigourney Weaver. we do know a while Who we do know exists in the Star Wars universe now. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Well, will depending on... Likely did exist at this time, based on the timeline. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So yeah, then Ventress basically just takes over the ship, and then she goes home to Dathomir.
Speaker: And Dathomir is a very red. it some places. I love the Dathomir design. Red, misty...
Speaker: haunting but vibrant it's the perfect world for some spooky some very well we're gonna get into it but it's very Macbeth gives me very much Macbeth vibes if you know what I know And also, just on another pretty superficial note right now, from the moment that I saw the Nightsister energy bows appear, i loved them.
Speaker: They're just really awesome visually, and they probably also tapped into my childhood love of the energy bow on the old Dungeons & Dragons cartoon.
Speaker: Oh, they're just so cool. And they're just so cool in general. Just the idea of a bow... With an energy string and an energy bolt to it. so So incredibly impractical, but so cool looking.
Speaker: Exactly. Like a lot weapons in the Star War, let's be real. Yes. It's true. It fits exactly at the Star War. So yes, then as Ventress goes ah further into the Nightsister's home, she comes upon an individual and says, Mother?
Speaker: Yep, Ventress going back to Dathmere like, Mom, can you could pick me up
Speaker: Like, I can't help but imagine another universe, this some kind of, like, comedic yet heartwarming story of an estranged daughter slash sister reuniting with her family and through various shenanigans discovering the true meaning of Life Day or whatever. Tom El meets a nice Abrak fella who teaches her, he doesn't need to be a fancy executive or SIF apprentice.
Speaker: And they save the community center for being turned into a parking lot. Classic Hallmark movie. Yes, yes, so a Star Wars Hallmark movie, or you just a heartwarming Star Wars sitcom.
Speaker: Everybody keeps saying we need a Star Wars sitcom. This is it. Yep. The Night Sisters of Dathomir. I'd watch it. Coming to you on ah something, I don't know channels these days. What do they rename ABC Family as?
Speaker: Poop, Poop has it for you. understood that reference. I did too, but also HBO Max back. ACS back in the max. Now on the Hallmark Channel.
Speaker: Oh, but ah this, here we have a matriarchal culture with a mystic ritual involving something called the water of life.
Speaker: Are we wearing our inspirations on our sleeves just a little bit? In Star Wars? No way. They never do that. Especially not this reference and this inspiration. I mean, this really just, the only thing that's missing is this taking place on Tatooine.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. But you before you started, we were discussing a certain topic before we started airing. I think you have to say this one. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. So getting into like the real walls of text, because what I said earlier was not even the beginning of my walls and text. Oh my God. You'll never quarrel this wall, Spider-Man.
Speaker: ah so i just... Fuck! I have so many feelings about Asajj fucking Ventress, oh my god. Like, okay, so first, she gets sold into slavery as a toddler by her own mother, as in, like, her bio-mom.
Speaker: Like, albeit it's reluctantly from what we saw, but her mom still did it. and Then her master, you know, as an owner, takes her to Rat Attack, of all places, which, don't even get me started, Rat Attack is, you know, a shithole.
Speaker: It's a lot like Nalhada or Narshan in that way. um Then her master, who despite it being a slaver, was also the only adult she had left anymore, gets shot and killed in front of her, which isn't traumatizing to a tiny child at all because she was like six years old then.
Speaker: And that's not even getting into who killed him, which, you know, is a thing she doesn't even find out until way later. Speaking of which, then Kyneric finds her and finally for just the first time in her entire fucking life something good happens to her. Someone finds her instead of using her actually takes her in and cares for her and teaches her and learns with her and treats her with respect and dignity and kindness.
Speaker: Like, Narek is literally the only person in the entire galaxy Ventress has ever met who saw her as a living being instead of a tool. Who just cared about her and not what she could do for him. Also, for probably the first time ever Ventress got to know what it was like to feel safe.
Speaker: It would also be probably the only time. Because then in just a single instant, the first, last, and only source of hope that maybe not everything is terrible forever gets ripped away from her. And she's alone again.
Speaker: Because Kyanaric gets shot in the back. So now she's alone again. And this time, no one is coming to save her. And she'll more or less be left to rot on a round attack until death finally claims her.
Speaker: And yeah so she tries to, you know, fight back against literally everyone because and she decided to pick her battles and she picked all of them and take over the planet. Only, you know, then she ends up losing a fight to another big bad, ends up enslaved again, this time in a gladiator arena. Because, you know, the only thing worse than being a slave is being a slave that's forced to fight to her death.
Speaker: And really, the only reason she ends up escaping that arena in the end is because Dooku shows up on a round attack and sees her force ability and is like, oh, I can use that. And all that really puts her in a relation, puts her relationship with Dooku into perspective. Like as much as part of her probably knew that she could never really trust him.
Speaker: also would have been all too easy to just ignore that voice of warning in favor of latching onto maybe not necessarily Dooku himself, like the chance at stability and in a way, even safety that he represented.
Speaker: like Maybe it was willful ignorance and choosing to blind herself to the reality, or maybe she just genuinely didn't see it after everything she went through. Because you know it's hard to notice any red flags when you see the whole world in the exact same color.
Speaker: Or maybe it's a little both. I don't know. And all that aside, he literally saved her life when he took her as her apprentice you know from the death arena. And I mean that in like two senses, because going with him meant she wouldn't have to you know worry about physically dying. And get by getting her out of there...
Speaker: He, in a manner of speaking, gave her back her life, or at least a chance to live one that offered her even a shred of autonomy and self-determination. So not only was he her savior of sorts, but also she owed him. The point is I can see exactly how Ventress ended up where she is, and how all of these events and circumstances outside her control, starting literally from her birth, set her up for such a shitty path because this shit is cyclical.
Speaker: And... Like speaking on that too, it's like, honestly, a lot of ways, she has a lot in common with Anakin on that front. Like both of them were just born into these shitty circumstances where their lives were never their own.
Speaker: Both of them had the mentor and father figure who took them away from that life murdered in cold blood. Both of them spent most of their lives never feeling safe or at home in their own skin. Both spent most of their lives feeling alone and alienated and disrespected and used. Both of them spent every wiki moment trying to prove their strength and their worth, not because they believe they actually were, but because inside they felt the exact opposite experience. and were desperate to hide that quote-unquote truth from everyone else.
Speaker: Both of them latched onto these horrible toxic people because those people were the only ones who gave them the validation they craved and it was the only time they could believe they were more than weakness and worthlessness. Both of them needed external validation because they struggled to find anything internal to validate about themselves.
Speaker: Both of them tried so hard to put up a strong front because underneath it all they were being crushed under the weight of everything they'd survived and all this trauma they could never process only carried with them and every day the weight only got heavier.
Speaker: Which is lot. And then, because I'm still going... Oh, she's going. me Let her roll. So just another thing about Ventress that really resonated with me, she is a great example of like an imperfect victim or a bad survivor.
Speaker: like I don't think I really understood that as a kid back in the day and didn't really understand what it meant or significance, but... Many years and many experiences later, the full weight of that hit me and it put Ventress as a character into a different perspective.
Speaker: Like when it comes to people who go through, you know, abuse and all these horrible things, there's so much focus on the narrative of the good survivor whose experiences only ever made them like kinder and stronger and some other positive adjective that lets us put a neat bow on something otherwise terrible and turns it into a gift.
Speaker: But that's not how it actually works. Like, sure, those things do happen, but it's just as likely that all that's going to make you angrier and sadder and more fearful because the comfortable emotions always come with uncomfortable ones attached.
Speaker: And that's not even getting into the fact that no survivor is a perfect saint who has never done anything wrong in their lives and how messed up it is that someone's, you know, quote unquote, bad past actions that are totally unrelated to what someone else did to them get twisted and used to discredit them and minimize what they went through. Like,
Speaker: I'm just so glad that we have Ventress because I really think we need more bad survivors like her whose narratives are messy and complicated and who can't just be easily placed into the box of good slash hero, evil slash villain because nothing is just ever that simple.
Speaker: Okay, I'm done. Yeah! Excellent. And next and we we all applaud. Beautiful. not Not because you're done, but because that is some astounding analysis, and I can't follow it.
Speaker: Yeah. for If you're listening, ah do you need a writer for the Ventress show that you didn't so subtly hide? I'm i'm pointing it metaphorically towards Betsy at I'll give you ideas. Don't actually ask me to write anything.
Speaker: I'll give you the ideas person as the like you know fuel to the fire person. yeah We can be a writing team, Betsy. There we go. We'll do it together. We'll use the power of friendship. Exactly. Something, something. Friendship is magic.
Speaker: Yes. Okay. Well, anyway, now that I've got that out of my system. Yeah. We got Ventress going to Mother Talzin, like trying to get revenge.
Speaker: And, you know, she has this great idea of where hopefully Ventress and some assassins will help her pass her stealth check. so they can be invisible. And she's like, this will work against anyone.
Speaker: Petra says, perhaps even Dooku? And Talzin's just like, perhaps even Dooku. don't know if I told her a ringing endorsement, but... Maybe. Possibly. We'll see. Basically, when you guys ask me but as me if you think you're playing in a D&D or a Star Wars session, it's like, it might work.
Speaker: Maybe. We don't it all depends on how the dice work for you. But what I really do love here is that with the Nightsisters, yeah, the Force, eh, it's just straight up magic.
Speaker: Don't worry about it. It's magic. And again, I like that, especially because if, for lack of a better term, the Jedi and theif are the are the orthodoxy, the traditional views of, like,
Speaker: what an average Joe would consider the Force.
Speaker: And that the Nightsisters are tapping into the Force, but just differently. And it looks different. It's unique to them, but it's still fundamentally the same powers. But it's like, they're just using it in way different ways.
Speaker: Yeah, you know, you go to Dathomir and they start doing some Toho nonsense to you. Or or they they start teleporting around and and making a run on walls and and stuff.
Speaker: And like Toho, they're still all of the Yuri. Yes, yes, maximum Yuri. They're min-maxing for Yuri on Dathomir. Now, I do think it's really interesting that Mother Talzin instructs them to make themselves seem like Jedi when they go on this and assassination mission against Dooku.
Speaker: ah yeah Because it's going frame the Jedi. Without even trying, she would. Kind of play directly into Sidious's plan to discredit the Jedi in the galaxy's eyes.
Speaker: And so exactly. but I also want to know exactly how does she have multiple Jedi lightsabers just laying around anyway? Don't worry about it.
Speaker: It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. Don't worry about it. Those skeletons over in the corner. no. Don't worry about it. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, you know, the Nightsisters are so good, they never murder anyone. Never. you're halloween It's fine.
Speaker: You know, before Dathomir gets turned into a spirit Halloween. Mm-hmm, yep. So yeah, then they go on, and so they've got their Dooku assassination plan, which leads into the Blind Dooku Battle.
Speaker: And I'd be remiss to not and say this is the appearance of the best Star Wars Battlefront II 2017 skin for Count Dooku. His exquisite pajamas.
Speaker: TM. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, the best way to get him with the dart that's going to, you know, fuck with all of his senses is to wait until he's in bed. Which, did anyone else notice that he's wearing slippers while he's sleeping in bed?
Speaker: Don't you? Also, he's sleeping on top of the bed because notoriously, that's also a video game thing. like It's notoriously hard to animate covers. Cloth in general is kind of difficult.
Speaker: So he's sleeping on top of his bed. He's in the back that he still had shoes on. Duke's strange sleeping habits are due to the fact that you know that the dark side leads to many abilities that some would consider to be unnatural.
Speaker: But see, i can't completely respect him because, yes, he sleeps above his covers, but he doesn't sleep four feet above his covers. Ah, that's true. That's true.
Speaker: I mean, we did mention Sigourney Weaver earlier. Yes. See, it it's all... it Again, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme... Exactly! That wasn't even the in the notes. Yeah!
Speaker: Most of this hasn't been in the notes. Nope. Nope.
Speaker: Yeah, but then they have their fight, and then, because I'm not the right person to talk about this, someone who knows something about fencing or sword fighting or whatever, say something about Dooku and Makashi. I don't know anything about fencing, but i do know about Makashi.
Speaker: It's a lightsaber stance meant specifically for dueling against other lightsaber users, and Dooku is one of the most proficient one of them, and is one of the best duelists in the galaxy and was in the Jedi Order,
Speaker: And just to explain this battle, it's a perfect explanation of that, that you don't even get from the movies because he just woke up, is poisoned, outnumbered by invisible enemies, and is still massively beating them.
Speaker: No wonder he's Master Yoda's former student. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: For sure. And he does ultimately do what I believe is the first Force Lightning in the series.
Speaker: I believe it is in the series. It's not the first time he used because he used it in Attack of the Clones. Yeah, yeah, but I mean the animated series. Yeah. Actually, it might be. I can't remember for sure, but... I know. Yeah, I can't either.
Speaker: But hey, you know what? That's another thing that Ventress and Annie have in common. Getting barbecued by lightning. and tried to find it, but I couldn't. But there's a post somewhere I saw forever ago about electrocution, brain damage, and just how many times Vaderkin has gotten electrocuted.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. ah he got fried a lot. yeah Yeah, a lot, a lot. And that's why he makes all of the worst decisions. Yeah. I mean, that's certainly a theory. Because it would make a lot of sense. Wait, no, wrong wrong thing.
Speaker: or or he Or he's just... Well, I guess technically he's not... Anakin isn't an incel. Yeah, because he does in fact fuck. He has two children. He's a wife guy.
Speaker: But yeah he he isn't... Is Anakin an alpha bro? He might be. He thinks he's an alpha bro. Well, I mean, everyone who thinks they're an alpha bro isn't. because Not only because alphas don't exist.
Speaker: Yes. Outside of certain types of fan fiction. but We don't talk about that. you know Not only do they not exist, but anyone who, if they did exist, anyone who declares themselves to be one isn't.
Speaker: Because if they were, they wouldn't have to declare it. yeah Game of Thrones. draft If you're the king king, you don't have to keep saying you're the king. Also, for legal reasons, we're definitely not talking about heterosexual alpha beta omega stuff. Don't sue us, Addison Cain.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. But, ah yeah, this assassination goes horribly wrong because Dooku, again, what I feel that the movies didn't do a good job of showing is how dangerously powerful Count Dooku is.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And he's at his literal weakest here. And easily, nearly total party kill killed the assassins.
Speaker: And they look so defeated. He beat them in his exquisite pajamas, DM. And didn't break a sweat. They should have gotten the battle pass. yeah Yep.
Speaker: They did not use the right cheat codes. Nope. Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, BA start. Yep, that's it. And then, you know, right after this happens, they come limping home.
Speaker: Talzin calls and it was like, oh man, I think I, like, sorry about your apprentice, but you know, I'm sure I can get you a new one. Dooku's like, wait, how did you know Ventress died?
Speaker: Talzin, I just know things because reasons. Dooku, okay, seems legit. And then Talzin's like, cool, cool. By the way, have you ever read Frankenstein?
Speaker: there's like uh no why tells it no reason don't worry about it okay i'll call you in here monsters ready for pickup okay bye click Also, I love the fact that we don't see how she cocktailed it, so I like to imagine her crystal ball has Wi-Fi. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Because, like, there's no tech dot in order to keep with the vibe of, like, there being, like, witches. They don't really have, like, a physical, like, hollow terminal. Mm-hmm. Well, in in that case, Nick, she doesn't have Wi-Fi. She has witch-fi.
Speaker: Exactly. Yes.
Speaker: But, yeah... Part of this is that I feel that Mother Tows is playing a much larger game against Dooku than what's being portrayed to Ventress and us.
Speaker: She's making other moves. She's, as the kids say, playing 5D chess. She's playing them like a damn fiddle. Oh, yeah yeah. And the the thing is, and granted, maybe it's because it's been a while since I've watched all of...
Speaker: the Clone Wars episodes with her, but between this and the canon Maul's Son of Dathomir comic afterwards, I still don't know what her whole plan was other than just being, I'm witchy and evil.
Speaker: But did she really need much more of a plan than that? so realize Honestly, that see being witchy and evil does sound like a plan in general. True. yes yeahs a lot of She has to do that voice modulation thing on purpose. None of the other witches have that.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. I mean, she's clearly doing that on purpose. and Well, no, some of the other ones have it, just nowhere near to the same degree.
Speaker: But going into the closing of this episode, you as the as the closing credits were going before they... Minimized on Disney Plus to go on to the next episode. I don't think I realized until I was watching it this time around that this episode was written by Katie Lucas.
Speaker: You didn't? I didn't. yeah yeah That was a big part of the like the on YouTube. They they were like talking about the yeah Yeah, Katie Lucas is the one that's writing this, which really attached to the Ventress character. I knew that she had written the scrapped Dark Disciple episodes that were later adapted into a novel.
Speaker: But didn't realize that she had written... She's been attached to it beginning of the Ventress. She's the love of the Ventress character. Yeah, and so... ah i did Like I said, I didn't realize that she was tied up in Ventress' story from the time it really got rolling here, ah when she transitioned from just being a cool-looking dark side assassin to a fully fleshed out character.
Speaker: And in hindsight, I'm actually kind of surprised that she didn't write Ventress' Tales of the Underworld arc from earlier in the month.
Speaker: Yeah. What's surprising is he was at least reached out to for consideration. it's a it's a sort It's a small group family group there at Lucasfilm.
Speaker: No. You don't say.
Speaker: Well, speaking of small family groups, we're going to continue going in the small family group with Monster, Season 3, Episode 13,
Speaker: Count Dooku wants a deadlier apprentice. o Ooh. Now, one thing I do and deeply am fascinated and want more explicit on this, what is the history between Dooku and Talisman?
Speaker: It's implied that they did the favor for so for one another. like what was that favor? When was this favor? We may never know. He did something for her, which is why she's repaying him by, here here, have another traumatized kid that we're going to warp for you. Because, you know, that's worked out so well for you and, you know, your whole little group every other time. Oh, yeah. i get right we Again, both in Legends and canon, the Sith and the Night Sisters have had interactions.
Speaker: Canon even implied that the Sith... tried to steal secrets from the Night Sisters in the past. like So it's interesting, like, was this when he was Darth Tyrannus or when it was Dooku the Jedi?
Speaker: Or even in between. Exactly. When he was just, you know, normal Count Dooku. Yes. I'm just fascinated by that interaction because it's just... Either way, I'm surprised there isn't a story about that yet.
Speaker: But yeah, it's it's very exciting that Dooku is essentially hiring the Nightsisters mistakenly now after they have just tried to assassinate him. Yep. He just shows up on their planet and, you know, as he's talking about the assassin, he's probably going to get them. Dooku just looks at Tal's and he's like, quit your job.
Speaker: Tells him, like, why? Dooku says, Jordan, my political movement against Republic tyranny. Yeah, that that's what it is. You know, as they're sitting around the table and she conjures up a goblet of something. And am I the only one getting Princess Bride flashbacks from Dooku drinking this just random cup of mysterious herb juice?
Speaker: So you're saying that he clearly cannot choose the wine in front of him. ah who I mean, he is committing one of the plas classic blunders here. I mean, next thing you know he's going to get into a land war in Asia. Or try to invade Coruscant.
Speaker: hu Or, you know, go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line. both like
Speaker: But also, just for everyone to know, do not take mysteriously conjured goblets carbons from witches. that Yeah, whether it's the wine in front of you or the wine in front of them. yeah Yes, they're both going to be poisoned.
Speaker: I mean, unless you've spent years in Australia building up an immunity to poison, because apparently that works. i again and I bet my life on it. Dathomir is like double Australia, especially if you've played played the Jedi games. I don't know, because she gets the one with the spiders.
Speaker: Just throw that out there. It also has spiders, and they'll spit acid.
Speaker: Yeah, I guess Kashyyyk spiders, they don't really poison you, so it's not Australia enough. That's true. And the giant bird friend on Dathomir is not your friend. No. It's more of a bat.
Speaker: It's a bat, and is it really it's more Batman than bat. or Or is man-bat instead of Batman? I was gonna make that joke!
Speaker: yeah Well, it's too late. Too late, Luther. late. We're all on the same wavelength here. hey Which is always scary. Yes. It very much is. We're synchronizing.
Speaker: Hey, I've been good. I've been very good compared to how I normally am. Daryl, back me up on this. We've both been good. Yes, indeed. we We have been very good. yeah I actually, you know, sidebar, mentioned that when Robert and I were on me and Steve last night.
Speaker: hey That, yeah. Yeah. buts you Do do i need to give you a treat for being so good? i will let him know that at Gamer Nation Con, you and Stephanie and I were all very good because... on our best behavior.
Speaker: yeah Usually it doesn't take much for us to dive straight for the gutter. and As if we you know weren't already there in the first place most times anyway. Yes. Anyway.
Speaker: So, you know, I'm just, as all this is happening, I'm just kind of sitting here casually screaming, crying, throwing up, etc. about things that are spoilers involving Maul, but we'll get there when we get there. yeah Yep, we'll get there.
Speaker: Eventually. I just love Talzin's line of men are easy to acquire, hard to control. Fucking preach, girl. She gets it. But also, for real, this whole meeting, Dooku basically showed up on Dathomir, sat down and drank mysterious herb juice for like five seconds while he talked about getting an assassin and then left like this whole meeting could have been an email he put on his whole regalia came in on his fancy solar sailor like this could have been an email yeah it could have been but it could have been does email exist in star wars do the night sisters have email does it matter
Speaker: well so He was still going to show up. MotherTalsonAdapamere.net Much like they don't have Wi-Fi, but they have WitchFi, would theirs be Eekmail?
Speaker: Something like that.
Speaker: yeah i don't know. The crystal ball just starts displaying text. is Something. hey so all like although thinking about it even universe episode where they they're trying to receive a signal but the thing that's receiving the signal doesn't do images it only does sound there we go so it messes up it's it's emitting a terrible noise because it's trying to emit ah an image instead of a they haven't discovered text to speech or whatever yet yeah yeah you know it just occurred i I do believe even before email was a very widespread thing was it
Speaker: the original Timothy Zahn Thrawn trilogy that had Luke coming out of hyperspace in his X-Wing and basically checking email? Basically, yeah. Yeah, that did happen.
Speaker: It's also where they introduce hot chocolate and into the canon, and Luke loves that stuff. Ever since Landor introduced him to it, he was obsessed. Luke Skywalker, so pure and innocent, the one who ordered blue milk at a bar.
Speaker: They discovered, wait, just does hot chocolate come from chocolate...
Speaker: A bantha? That has to be Luke's reaction when he first heard about it. Never change, Luke Skywalker. Never change. Never change. Always stay the uncanny valley de-age deepfake that you have become in The Mandalorian.
Speaker: Yes. ah But yes, so you have some more things to say. ah Yeah, just, you know, Vectorista is off to the other side of the planet to go find one of the Dathomarian Zabrax to make an assassin out of, and you gotta enjoy the environment as she passes, like, you know, there are these weird sack-like things hanging from the trees all over, and they look pretty strange.
Speaker: Oh well, I'm sure they're nothing of interest. I think I just had a PTSD flashback from when i was playing a video game. I didn't have any PTSD flashbacks because I'm good at pairing stuff.
Speaker: ah She right, though. But anyway, also, something I found fascinating, it's a planet with more than a single biome. They do exist. do exist.
Speaker: And this one, this biome where the men are, does kind of resemble Dathomir from the old Star Wars Galaxy's MMO. It does. Where it wasn't all red, but the terrain looked a lot like this. There was an outpost that looked a lot like this one.
Speaker: The village looked a lot like it. Knowing that Filoni liked his deep cuts of lore like that, I wouldn't be surprised if that is not a coincidence.
Speaker: But I knew still in general like that they still sort of melded and were like, yeah, it's still the red sky and misty, but it's like, yeah, it does harken back to that. So it's a fun callback while still keeping in with like, yeah, it's still same planet because the big red star in Yeah. And because I'm a nerd, I can even say that like, you know biologically or whatever, it kind of makes sense because...
Speaker: you know, the Dathmir where the witches are is more or less a desert, and then where the male Zabraks are is kind of like a tundra, and desert and tundra are two sides of the same coin, so it all works out. Yay! It's the same thing, except one has snow, all the time.
Speaker: So we we get to that village where the Night Brothers are, where the Zabraks are, and we see the introduction of a bit of minutiae that will be addressed in the next episode, but...
Speaker: drove some fans and viewers crazy for like a week because Zabrax from Dathomir rather than Iridonia where Ancillary Media had said they were from previously.
Speaker: Cue the story group's reaction. I say, is it too much to ask for both? It's true. It's it's true like, yeah ah it does get answered in the next episode. would so was like, I did not at all question this as like,
Speaker: Yeah, it's sort of it's very similar to the Quartzit of Princess Leia. We'll get to that. But I mean, hey, you know, is someone really a Star Wars fan if they don't spend time nitpicking over random lore minutiae and getting unreasonably angry about it?
Speaker: I don't get unreasonably angry about Star Wars. I get the right amount of angry about it. See, there it is. I sit in front of my wall of Funko Pops in the front seat of my pick-em-up truck.
Speaker: and front facing camera on your phone, wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap. And I rant about how Kathleen Kennedy ruined it all, and then I put it on YouTube with a thumbnail of her with glowing red eyes and a red arrow pointing to her. And, you know Kathleen Kennedy, in all caps, destroyed Star Wars.
Speaker: Wait, we we we've moved past it. It's now Dave Filoni's fault. if No, it's not. They won't give up on Kathleen Kennedy. No, they won't. They have to blame the girl.
Speaker: But they are currently pivoting. Oh, oops, sorry. am Am I getting political on the podcast again? Whoa, political politics and Star Wars? No way. Politics and my Star Wars? The episode's main character is a woman, so it's already political. Yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker: Sorry, Lauren, our entire existence is political. They are pivoting and starting to turn on Filoni, though, because now Tony Gilroy is their darling who should be handed the keys to the kingdom.
Speaker: We'll see how much longer that lasts. I'll go give it a week. ah Especially considering he has said, yeah, no, this is all the Star Wars I wanted to tell. And I told this Star Wars because Kathleen Kennedy came to me and said, hey, you want to tell another Star War about Cassian Andor?
Speaker: He's like, do I? And he said, okay. And then he said, well, I want to do this outrageous thing with it. Okay. Well, I ah want to do this.
Speaker: Fine. What about this? Do it. Why are you asking me? Here's more money. Do it all. And then after and or season one, she was like, Disney says, just stop asking questions here.
Speaker: Do it.
Speaker: Yes. As for myself, I've never gotten ah absurdly angry about Star Wars lore, but I have gotten unreasonably angry about Kirby lore. So, you know, you, you understand potato.
Speaker: One of these days I'm going to, I'm going to unleash on my own walls of text about the Kirby lore. Oh, I don't doubt it. You will, you will all witness the power that I wield within myself.
Speaker: Unlimited power, you might say? Uh-huh, yeah. But yes, let's talk about the Knight Brothers. So we're introduced to the Knight Brothers. We're only given names for two of them. And there they're not horribly on brand or anything at all.
Speaker: so They are Savage and Feral. And Savage, gotta to love me some Clancy Brown. can't get over the fact that he's also a Mr. Crash and Spongebob. And Lex Luthor and the Kurgan and...
Speaker: He's a lot of things. He's a lot of guys. It's true.
Speaker: And thus, we get into the Knight Brothers selection process. Yeah, where Ventress starts beating up on him. ro Too small. Too small.
Speaker: Too weak.
Speaker: These will do.
Speaker: Him.
Speaker: And him.
Speaker: These men are to your liking, sister? Yes. Now for the tests. There will be three of them. Whoever survives will be my champion and go on to serve me.
Speaker: Understood? yeah Yes, sister.
Speaker: Excellent. Let the games begin.
Speaker: Welcome to the annual Nightsister Hunger Games. Ba-ba-ba-da-ba-da-ba. And you Stanley Tucci turns to camera, puts on a big fake smile.
Speaker: this is actually pretty similar to Dathomir Society. And it's Legends' first appearance, the courtship of Princess Leia, which is... A fever dream. and Not as much of a fever dream as, like, the Crystal Star.
Speaker: Well, I mean, you know, you you can't really come more than Luke's computer girlfriend, who is... Okay, that's that's true, but... Well, then again, i guess Crystal Star and Waru and the dragon and centaurs and... Yeah. there But, you know, Legends is... they They should have adapted everything from Legends because it was all gold.
Speaker: Especially all of the grade-A Legends bullshit. Yes. Especially Waru. He was literally gold. And a cube. Hey, I love grade-A Legends bullshit. Oh, so do i Like, I try to bring much of that into my games as possible.
Speaker: But, uh... It is very accurate to that, but it's also like implied to be like a weird like dating game, where it's like, they're like, oh, they're here to select a mate.
Speaker: It's like, so you just, the guys all line up, and it's like, bald women come over, beat the crap out of them, kill most of them, and then the winner is goes home and gets laid.
Speaker: Which is also very courtship. but does I mean mean, isn't that how it works? I'm not saying that they- mean question about Princess Leia? Yeah, pretty much. I mean, isn't that how it works in the real world?
Speaker: Obviously. Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Are you heterosexual people okay? I don't think we Like twice if you need help. I realize there's only one of you here I can talk to, but the point stands.
Speaker: and This is why I'm into Yuri.
Speaker: I've got to have somebody who will actually fight back. You know, it's it's the classic, you know, rivalry sort of deal. nice It's true. It is the trope that has launched a thousand fanfics. Yep.
Speaker: and I need my Ray Mari to involve firing five billion bullets at each other, or else it's not Yuri enough. But yes, uh... lot of the challenges, and they're unfair.
Speaker: it's It's... Is it a challenge if... just, like, everyone just starts dying. Like, I gotta ask, how much of these challenges are actually Ventress testing them, and how many of them are just an excuse for her to just fuck with them?
Speaker: Yes. The answer is yes. I mean, it's also her violently lashing out at anger about all the shit that she recently went through, but that's less funny. I can read on both points. It's like... the The first challenge was like, okay, this is just you wanting to...
Speaker: Find the punts and kill people of interest. At least the second one had something to do with like skills as a warrior. And had her cool like sickle blade.
Speaker: It was pretty cool. Yeah it was. But also real talk I think Hunger Games is kind of like an apt comparison just that you know in like that novel Savage and Feral outlast all the other contestants not because they're like bigger or stronger or better fighters or whatever.
Speaker: but because they worked together and supported each other. What's gonna work? What's gonna work? Teamwork! The power of brotherly love. The power of friendship.
Speaker: Friendship is magic. Indeed. and I'll save that for later. i like soon
Speaker: cause But then I also like, it's just Savage's motivations. Like, he fought as hard as he did not to, like, prove himself or show off or even to keep himself alive. Like, all he needed to do was stay alive long enough to make sure that his brother was safe.
Speaker: Even if that been putting himself directly in the line of fire. And it just, it makes me super curious what Ventress sees in him and his actions. Because, like, on the one hand, all that altruism and self-sacrifice and whatnot is just complete anathema to the Sith and the dark side.
Speaker: And that's the mindset that she's had to more or less adopt for years now. Then on the other hand, I wonder if she's a reflection of the Nightsister's own belief and the strength and importance of like sisterhood and the power that unity offers.
Speaker: But then also beyond that, I wonder how Ventress feels about the, for lack of a better word to describe it, humanity that Savage displays. Like on the surface, she reads somewhere between like uninterested and just totally disgusted.
Speaker: But, you know, if you juxtapose it with her own experience, I wonder what else she feels. It's like, first of all, Savage's behavior shows that try as she might to pretend otherwise, he is still a person, you know, a complex individual with a rich inner life that defies attempts to treat him like nothing more than a useful tool, you know, just like her.
Speaker: But then the turntables are also on the other foot because instead of being used herself, she's now the one using someone else. You know, she's the slaver. She's the master. She's the one with the power to objectify and strip a living being of their personhood so if she can use them however she wants to achieve her own goals.
Speaker: Because after all, Savage isn't a person. He's a pawn, an object, something that can't feel pain or experience emotions or have wants and needs of his own. Like, You know, it just, it doesn't matter if it's a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away underneath the force and the magic and the sci-fi and all the other artifice in the Star War. The cycle of the view is just as real there as it is here.
Speaker: hu Well said. Well said. Very well said. you do really have a beautiful way of work. I had a lot of feelings about this arc. We hadn't noticed.
Speaker: But, you know, on a less serious note, they bring Savage back to Mother Talzin and she just starts casually feeling him up. Oh, yeah. I mean. He does. I mean.
Speaker: I don't disagree. Yeah? Yeah. i I mean, you know, you it's almost, well, no, it's not even almost the, you Peggy Carter seeing post-serum Steve Rogers for the first time. Because because this isn't even post-serum yet.
Speaker: yeah We were haven't even gotten into its du the the magic and magical man transformation. And you know that was that was more of a, is it is is is it real?
Speaker: Is it real? m And this is just like, oh, hey, you. Yeah. What you doing? Come here often. but are yeah You're gonna look great once we inject all this magic into you. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: But yes, speaking of, ah he then goes through a magical power-up. He, you know, as as we said, you know, friendship is magic, and he has so much friendship rippling through all of his muscles right now. And ah heat he he is jacked up. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: And then, with all of that... He already looked very like fit in that flag, but no, he becomes... As you said, like best example is like he went from... um A regular athletic guy went into the super soldier serum that Steve Rogers went to. And he just grew a foot and was insane.
Speaker: And then, with using the power of all that friendship flowing through his muscles, yeah he is forced to ah to kill his brother now. Yeah.
Speaker: It's like, i know the whole kill the thing you love is a test of strength slash loyalty or whatever is super cliche. It's also part of the road. But, man, this one just hurts. Like, the only reason Savage gave himself up was to save his brother and now he's forced to kill him with his bare fucking hands. Like,
Speaker: ah And then what's worse is you can see the hesitation before the nice sister mind whammying takes over and he can't fight it. And, you know, because of said mind whammying, it's almost like he doesn't seem to be fully aware of what he just did or who he just murdered.
Speaker: You know, the person that he was willing to sacrifice everything to save. Don't forget, Farrell is completely aware that this is, this monster is his brother, even though that he's transformed. And the last thing that his brother said to him was that he was weak.
Speaker: ah Yay, it's almost like evil isn't bored, it's made! time by force! Or, you know, the force! yes And the cycle keeps on going! Hooray! Thank you, Daryl! And the Night Sisters are even nice enough to give him a cool, badass magic spear axe!
Speaker: In the concept art for it, the tip of of the spear can fire a poison projectile.
Speaker: ah That's why that was a fun fact to add in. yeah But Lauren, it's time for, and for the ultimate Star Wars character to be revealed, you the the favorite moment of this entire Wasp for me is when they said the full name.
Speaker: Savage Opress. Stab a bad guy, man! Yeah. i um the well The reaction from Lauren when this scene came. Because, again, I had a feeling you knew who he was.
Speaker: but I just don't think you were ready for it to be said right in front of you at that moment. I've seen the meme. But I wasn't ready for it. But you weren't ready because you just...
Speaker: I think you like nearly doubled over with laughter. Like, Savant! Yeah! That's a name, alright! Right up there with things like Thurm Scissor Punch.
Speaker: Yes! ah
Speaker: It's just like... That that made the... That made this whole thing work. you know Just to see that reaction of you being like... Savage Opress.
Speaker: Brother of Feral and Maul. Yes. Yes. yeah Also, so we don't know where the Opress came from. Is that a new addition to the name?
Speaker: or that Or are they all single-named and then Mother Tazer was like, Dooku doesn't want just Savage. I gotta give him a cool...
Speaker: surname uh yeah i think the implication is that oppress is a new addition to his name i just like to think it's his stage name again it's more fitting with that is like oh man i gotta i gotta to give him a cool name otherwise dooku was talking about this cool monster man i made i who was also literally previously just named savage like that just was in fact his name Yeah, it's like, um... Well, like I said, yeah their names are were very on brand.
Speaker: It's like going from Otto Octavius to Dr. Octopus. Yeah. It's like, oh, what's the Sif like? Uh, domination, oppressing! Savas! Oppress!
Speaker: Yes. Mm-hmm, because you got your Glupshadows, you got your Jeffs, and then you got your Stab-a-Bad-Guy-Mans.
Speaker: Well, Betsy wanted someone to say something about the Temple of Edith. Oh, yeah, because I didn't feel like looking things up on Wikipedia to make sure I was remembering things.
Speaker: So I'll say it. The Temple of Edith, wasn't it built by the Brotherhood of Archie? And now I'll stop. I'll be over here in the corner now if anybody needs to.
Speaker: I can't even be mad. I need a guy. But i did go on. i First I pulled out book, but then I went on Wikipedia to learn a little bit more.
Speaker: Located on Devron, home of the Devronians, those are the devil-headed looking guys with the horns and the red skin, the Temple Eden is built to tie up a light-side Force version that made it easier to learn techniques in the Force, as well as hear the spirit when touched by darkness.
Speaker: It was left in ruins after orbital bombardment by the Galactic Empire, but Luke Skywalker actually visited and learned some ways of the Force after the Battle of Yomondare.
Speaker: Thank you. Thank you, Nick. You know can count on someone to you know actually like do the work. Research? read Research instead of just making a lame you joke about a 50-year-old sitcom?
Speaker: I definitely never do research for any project ever. You know, that's definitely not something that I've ever done, you know, and in any project that I've ever made. never. Never, ever.
Speaker: I've totally not been just the guy that had to do all the research for the group projects and then... Looks looks back on my 60 Let's Plays where I was known for doing practice runs and research and stuff.
Speaker: yes See, that's why this is the group project. Yeah. Yes. I just yell about my feelings a lot. We like your feelings. I have a lot of them.
Speaker: ah And, you know, you gotta to love how at the temple at first he's just tearing through a bunch of troopers, but then he gets to a Jedi master and their apprentice, and, you know, look, another small child who had to watch their Jedi master get murdered in front of them.
Speaker: It's like poetry, etc., etc. They rhyme. Thank you. Yes, yes, Dooku requires proof of his effectiveness, and so Savage casually murders two Jedi.
Speaker: one of Which is a tiny child. thing
Speaker: Then you have Dooku telling Savage how he'll teach him the ways of the dark side. You know, the exact same thing he said to Ventress in the before times, and then tried to kill her.
Speaker: It's like poetry. They rhyme. How many times is too many to use that clip? None. listen not mean, it hasn't stopped being coming yet. Nope, it has not.
Speaker: I mean, I mean, four variations of the clip, so. Nice. If we ever get comments on these, we'll find out. Yep, yep. And so yeah, Dooku says that Savage Opress may be even more powerful, or may become even more powerful than Lord Sidious.
Speaker: Ooh. You ever heard that one before? Now, Nick, I do remember that there was a lot of promotion around the introduction of Savage Opress.
Speaker: And at first, no one heard the name. We saw it in print. So we're like, Savage Opress? Isn't that a little on the nose? um But what I don't remember is...
Speaker: Was it before season three as a whole or during a mid season break? Because all I remember is that they really built him up and a lot of people were generally laughing because of the name being so on the nose.
Speaker: And it was greeted with a chorus of, well, they just wanted a new edgy extreme mall. Spoilers.
Speaker: You're correct. But actually,
Speaker: Like, this mid-season break for Season 3 was what I call the Cervassofress mini-trailer.
Speaker: Because that was the next arc that came after the mid-season break. and Season 3 was the one that was like wrapping up a whole lot of plot holes from the first two seasons.
Speaker: And like why we have this chronological rewatch in the first place.
Speaker: But when they got there, it's like, it it ended with that exact scene at the scene that that made made Lauren nearly this, like, completely die from laughter of Zavar's oppress and being like, oh, he's just the new Darth Maul.
Speaker: Everyone's talking about he's just the new Darth Maul. he He's Liefeld Maul. That's honestly exactly what I was thinking. Like, they went, you know, full 90s. Yep. He's, again, like, and again, he's ah he's kind of an antithesis. Maul is nimble, sort of thin, sort of graceful.
Speaker: Savaaz is brute force power. And even his name is just like, yeah, it's, it is dumb. It's a dumb name. Dammit, I can't make the joke I wanted to make about Liefeld and Feet because we're not there yet.
Speaker: it like You know what i'm talking about. like Even with the Don Dave, he does strike an imposing figure. But everyone has to say, like okay, he's just big ball.
Speaker: Yeah, the only thing he was missing were a whole lot of pouches and belts. Yeah. And zippers. And zippers. oh yes Of course, can't forget zippers. Oh, and you know that his eyes should just be like these tiny like white triangles with no pupil. It's all Scalera.
Speaker: and And a great big gun that looks like a hairdryer. Oh no, he has a cool he' a cool magic spear axe. That he will never use. used it once.
Speaker: Literally once. But I was just like... If you were a full life old, he'd have to have the hairdryer. If you were watching this when the Clone Wars were coming out, after the mid-season break...
Speaker: For season three, you were getting bombarded by this every day on Cartoon Network. This was like you were getting, they were just like getting you ready for. Savazza, Savazza Press was the name on every Star Wars fan. in that I still just love that, you know, seeing it written down, it was savage. And then they had to come in with, um actually, it's Savage. Mm hmm.
Speaker: Oh, i'm I'm sorry, he comes from the Savage region of Dathomir. Exactly. yeah. Totally. But Oprat is still the Oprat. Yes. But that then takes us into the final episode of the arc, Witches of the Mist, Season 3, Episode 14.
Speaker: Anakin and Obi-Wan are on the trail of Dooku's new apprentice. Yes, and we start out with ah some savage dark side training, which ah leads to the interesting line from Dooku saying, The task is only impossible because you think it is.
Speaker: Oh, and that's right on the heels of Savage saying, you know, it's impossible. It's very much a callback to Luke on Dagobah.
Speaker: It's like Poet. Oh, do not do do we need do we need to do it again again? Yeah, we need to do it again. if they rhyme.
Speaker: um it's I'll get into it more, because it the there's a lot of what I call Zavaz's worst... Going through the worst trading montage of all time.
Speaker: There were no seagulls in his, at least. And there were no inspiring power chords. That was the problem. Oh, yeah. Honestly, no, no, no. It's just Dooku putting him down.
Speaker: Right, because there were no inspiring power chords. Just a lot of power, as in, you know, electrocution. Mm-hmm. And see, now, if I'd known that we were going to head down that, I would have had the clip from the Buffy musical episode. Well, if we hear any inspiring power chords, we'll just sit down and refuse to participate. Oh, that would have been a good one here.
Speaker: But yeah, the it is a direct sort of sort of reversal of Yoda's line. Do or do not, there is no try. It's only impossible because you think it is.
Speaker: But it also fits with the SIP philosophy of like, no, no, the power is in you. Reach into that.
Speaker: Get pissed off and use it. Get good, scrub. Yes.
Speaker: Ugh. I have a lot of feelings about, you know, Jedi training and the whole do or do not and how that's bullshit, but that's for another time. sure we'll get into it someday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, if something comes up that makes me think of it, I probably won't be able to shut up about it as per usual.
Speaker: I gladly listened to you talk about Star Wars. But anyway, so smash cut to the temple as we're dropping off, you know, the bodies of the dead master and the dead child from the Temple of Edith.
Speaker: And as the ship comes in, the ramp lowers, we see the boys are back in town.
Speaker: The boys are back in town. Daryl, I should have asked you to put a clip here. Yeah, you should have. I didn't think about it. I didn't either. I didn't either. But we also, you know wouldn't have those music rights.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Although it would have been short enough that it would have would have been fair use. But who are the boys, Nick? They are Delta Squad.
Speaker: Clone Commandos from the very popular. It's recently been put up on certain consoles for basically for a little money to pay.
Speaker: to pick up ah on Modern Concerts, the Republic Commando video game, and also starred in several novels ah written by Karen Praters.
Speaker: Nick, are you outing yourself as a Tala fan? I'm sorry, it never stops being funny.
Speaker: But they are made up of Clone Sergeant Boss, the brave leader, Fixer, their tech guy, Squartz, heavy weapons and explosives.
Speaker: And Sev, the Psycho Sniper. I'd say that they are a pretty badass Bats of Clones. Yes, I know what I did there.
Speaker: Hey, Delta Squad walked so Bad Batch could run. Yep, exactly. And now we get to Obi-Wan researching the return of a Darth Maul-like.
Speaker: Okay, now need to pull a Betsy. is like Obi-Wan, not every Zabrak is Darth Maul. Also, we will never see Savaz use the badass cool magic spear axe.
Speaker: You never even got to use the poison tip projectile. Well, it's kind of wasted potential. Well, Nick, that that was probably removed from the final production line.
Speaker: Because they didn't want to animate it. Well, no, I was going to say because you know they were concerned about kids' safety and you know firing the projectile into their mouths. But also they didn't want to animate it.
Speaker: That too.
Speaker: I'm just saying, that was a cool concept idea. Mm-hmm. But oh you're so right about Obi-Wan because he's just sitting there like, Maul, no way, it can't be. totally killed that guy.
Speaker: mean, there's no possibility he could ever come back after I bisected him watched him, the two halves of his body fall down and reactor shots in the darkness but didn't actually check out Baud to see if the body was still there and actually dead or not.
Speaker: Also, just, wow, Obi-Wan, this is fine Kenobi, watching a magically roided-up Dathomary and Zabarak brutally murder a Jedi Master in front of their own Padawan? sure this isn't bringing up any kind of past trauma or making him feel some kind of way at all, and definitely isn't part of why he keeps calling Savage a thing or an animal.
Speaker: As if that could more easily reconcile the way he feels about things with being a Jedi who's not supposed to feel ways about things. It's fine. He's fine. We're all fine here. Oh yeah, totally. and Even Yoda's calling Savage a creature of the same species.
Speaker: Creature, excuse me, my little green dude, there's a Zabrak on the Jedi Council. Two, in fact! fish Is that just Obi-Wan's I can understand from a trauma perspective, but also it's pseudo-hilarious that Obi-Wan would be like, Darth Maul alive again! It's like, I'm just giving you your your your food, sir.
Speaker: um I cut you down before! It's me, he's coughed. I've been on the fucking council for years now. Yeah. Darth Ball alive again!
Speaker: But the LFL... I mean, when I see you every week on, you know, Tongs Day or whatever. This is not new. Darth Ball alive! But the Lucasfilm story group stands down as we have Mace deliver some exposition for the fanboy continuity patch for the Zabrax on Dathomir and Iridonia, but How do Yoda and Mace know that Savage is actually from Dathomir?
Speaker: Well, the only explanation I have for that is due to the tattoos. Because before in Legends, Darth Maul's tattoos were Sif-based tattoos. But it appears to be a cultural thing among the Dathomir and Zabrak.
Speaker: But prior to this, you know going with our same fanboy continuity patch... Mm-hmm. tattoos on Zabrax were a whole species cultural thing, not just a Dathomirian thing.
Speaker: Because that was part of the whole character customization for Zabrax in Galaxies. that was yeah That was a whole thing. Yoda and Windu are just committing a microaggression. It's fine.
Speaker: And that that's that saying something for Mace Windu because he's always macroaggressing. Yes. I mean, you know, it's Samuel L. Jackson. What else do you need? What else do you want?
Speaker: Of course. Even when he's not voiced by Samuel Jackson, he's Samuel Jackson. Yeah. Because the voice actor knows exactly who to channel. Yes. He understood the assignment.
Speaker: Well, I guess that kicks off Anakin and Obi-Wan heading over to Dathomir. And I look at how Obi-Wan's like, okay, Anakin, remember, we're only here to talk. and And he's just like, don't worry, I'm not starting any shit.
Speaker: And approximately 10 seconds later, Anakin holding his lightsaber to a leader guy's throat. So anyway, Anakin being Reimu Hakurai coded once more. i mean, I can't believe that I made that connection and you made that connection. and i was like, that's helped me understand that whole that whole series so much more.
Speaker: i mean, that this is just a day that ends in Y for Anakin. Like, in in every game, Reimu just goes up to random people and starts blasting them with five billion bullets at once. That's that's just how every game goes.
Speaker: So anyway, i start blasting. Yeah.
Speaker: I love how I start leaving and it's like, this place is all kinds of fun. Am I allowed to say like father like son, even if the fever dream that was Quartership of Princess Leia isn't canon anymore? But then again, no one has propositioned Annie for a ride on their raincore yet, if you know what I mean.
Speaker: So maybe he's not quite as popular. Hmm. Yes, that is the thing that happened in the book. It's canon. It was canon. Whatever. Also, implied that Yoda got busy, and I...
Speaker: I mean, he also had great relations with the Wookiees, so, you know, I think he's been here for a while. And let's also, as long as we're tossing some minor pebbles in the way of Courtship of Princess Leia...
Speaker: The whole story starts when Han Solo, jealous of an arranged marriage that someone is coming to Leia for, kidnaps her to say, no, marry me instead. Because that's, you know, a totally normal reaction to that.
Speaker: Yep. Oh, that's how he won the planet of Dathomir in in a poker game. a poker game. but yeah Never mind that. None of the people at Dathomir even knew about this. They were like, what the hell do you mean you own the planet?
Speaker: ah Tell that to my Rancor. You know, You know, Betsy, the the whole kidnapping Leia to make her marry him thing, that made me think of once more with feeling again.
Speaker: yeah yeah, you're not wrong. but Spike's line, you know, first I'll save her, then I'll kill her. I'm just sitting here thinking about the similarities between Han and Spike, and it's it's a lot.
Speaker: I think we have to do it so something to talk about some of the weirdest parts of Legends at some point. ah We absolutely can. There is no short-ass shit to talk There is not.
Speaker: call it Great A bullshit. A whole episode can be done about the ghost of a princess land. a Decisions were made.
Speaker: but But see, the thing is, to do that episode well, I'd have to read that again. That is the problem. i mean could we are and And unfortunately, we are not sponsored by Audible, so we can't get around that way.
Speaker: I mean, the original audiobook anyway, because this is before they had the full ones for everything. um I don't know if the unabridged one is out yet or not. As far as I know, it's not. oh Not that I've actually been checking, because it's not like I want to inflict that on myself anyway.
Speaker: Once was enough. um Speak amongst yourselves. Okay, uh... Yes. ah During this, we are taught a lot about the rule of two and the history of if teaching with Savas' it's very bad had training him montage.
Speaker: But also, it's a... The main factor here is that Dooku's inflicting a lot of pain on Savas. Yes. and Literally and, you know, like physically and emotionally.
Speaker: To perform, to... get stronger and that's sort of the nature of the rule of two darth bane ended the sif order because the sif order was constantly betraying each other all the time thusly no matter how strong or powerful the sif empire was it would always crumble because well everyone's trying to screw everyone over Darth Bane consolidated power in the Rule of as one principle, the idea being one who embodies power and one who craves it.
Speaker: Master and apprentice. But it's a self-defeating cycle in that the apprentice must always loathe and destroy the master.
Speaker: in order to achieve mastery.
Speaker: So they must train an apprentice, and that's what Dooku was doing with Asaz, and now he's doing with Savids.
Speaker: So
Speaker: Nick, are are you saying that's that's what this is all about, that you want me to destroy you when this is all over? ah As long as it's eventual, whatever you guys want to do. And only after he's changed the will.
Speaker: Yes, yes, you have to wait for him change the will first. Of course, of course. It's like the idea of it is a is a, it's a cyclical nature. It's constantly creating a bunch of pain and animosity, passing it on to the next, then that will be passed on to the next, etc, etc. It's a No one grows from these anger, frustration feelings.
Speaker: They're just using that to further build themselves. Yeah, and in a way it's kind of ironic that the Sith are all about power when this just constant cycle of abuse and tearing someone down, as much as, you know, it feeds their anger, in a way it just always weakens them too.
Speaker: weakens everyone involved. Exactly. It's it's it' self-defeating. Again, it's like, they rhyme. There it is. Exactly. It kind of rhymes with the last one.
Speaker: Hopefully it'll work.
Speaker: For the Sith, ultimately it does kind of work until it doesn't. But that's mainly because it goes on for long enough times. They're hidden enough. They get enough power in other ways.
Speaker: But ultimately, someone has to be king of the hill at the end. They manufacture their own downfall from day one.
Speaker: And they treat it like it's a good thing and then, you know, act all surprise Pikachu face when it bites them in the ass.
Speaker: And real quick to interject. Yes, the unabridged version of Courtship of Princess Leia has been available for about a year and a half. Oh, goody. Just what I wanted to hear.
Speaker: it is ah 12 and a half hours of unabridged courtship of Princess Leia. Oh my. Oh no, I don't think I can handle that.
Speaker: ah Okay, they maybe the... Redcon might suggest it out of existence.
Speaker: i don't know if i hate myself i enough to inflect that on me. i I don't hate myself in ah enough to use an audible credit on that. Same.
Speaker: And I certainly don't hate myself enough to pay the full $15.98. Oh, yeah. that that That's that that and not worth it. Not worth it. And that's on sale. I'm sorry. $15.75.
Speaker: Non-member price $22.50. Yeah, I
Speaker: yeah i don't even mean think i don't even think enough Patreon supporters could get me to do that. now I'm just going to pretend we never talked about it. What? yeah What Nick is... Let's move on.
Speaker: Is this suddenly becoming like the genesis of Gamer Nation Con? If we hit X thousands of dollars, then Nick will listen to the courtship of Princess Leia unabridged? No, doesn't have to be all of us to make podcast. was going to say, Daryl, don't that because we'd have to do it too.
Speaker: No, I just said Nick. Yeah, but if we're going to talk about it, then unfortunately there has to be at least one other person. No, know no we can just have Nick explain it to us. Yeah, yeah. He'll he'll explain it to somebody who knows less about Star Wars, me.
Speaker: And then I'll just be sitting there the whole time like, yeah, that sounds like complete nonsense. I love it. You have no idea. Lauren, you have no fucking idea. no I do not.
Speaker: You sweet summer child. we're if If he if he to if he ah explains this to me, we're going to be a increasing the speed of the whole rule of two thing, and I'll be murdering him much earlier.
Speaker: You have no idea how right you are. it could be worse, though. It could be the crystal star or planet of Twilight. Oh, God. Twilight Sparkle got her own planet?
Speaker: No, this is about Luke's computer girlfriend. Oh, okay. And when I say computer girlfriend, I mean like a computer program that inhabited the body of one of his former students who killed herself because she was sad about losing her husband.
Speaker: Of course, that's normal. And that, you know, the computer girlfriend decided to inhabit her dead body. Which was fine. She gets eaten by Cthulhu later. Just like in Ben 10.
Speaker: Yes. actually the No. back Back on track. Back on track. Now, if we're talking about something serious, is talking about, you know, Grade A Legends bullshit.
Speaker: That's what we'll call it, that's if we ever do to that, but they it would take way too much Patreon money for me to even consider that. So Betsy, I think you had something to say about Talzin and Obi-Wan. Yeah, just that I know there's like plenty of reasons logically in-universe for Talzin to know Obi-Wan well enough to like refer to him by name, but I fully choose to believe that the other reason she knows who he is is because of Ventress, and then she's sitting there like, oh, so this is the guy that Ventress wouldn't shut up about.
Speaker: mean, I guess he's kind of pretty, though. I don't know why she wants to hate fuck him so bad.
Speaker: ah Again, that does conjure up the image of Ventress and her drinking the mysterious, magically concerted liquid. It's just me like... Bessie, you have no idea the kind of day I've had.
Speaker: Or whatever it is the kids say. And then there was... And then Obi-Wan... Damn, Obi-Wan. And his stupid hair, and his stupid beard, and his stupid sass. I just want rip him apart.
Speaker: I could totally take him. And no, I don't just mean it to fight. And by the top, was like, what the hell are you going out of that? I'm going to need my own cup of mysterious herb juice for this. Actually, several cups.
Speaker: Oh, my.
Speaker: But yeah, Staballus is just going through the worst training montage. He's got a double-bladed lightsaber now. It's not as cool as the spear.
Speaker: Yeah, but it does certainly look like someone else's weapon of choice, doesn't it? It does. He is, once again, extreme Maul. And that that's not... Extreme with an X. Yeah, X-Dash. T-R-E-M-E.
Speaker: And the X is like slightly larger font than all the rest of the letters. Yes. And there's two exclamation points at the end. Yes. Again, like and this point, was like, the I was even when I was a kid, was like, oh, he's just, he's just less cool mole now.
Speaker: i mean, you're not wrong. Mm hmm.
Speaker: Except that, you know, that I grew up and rewatched everything as a doll and was like, oh no, now I have feelings about him. Which I also had happen with Ball, but I digress. i Yeah, like, i I still thought he was cool, but I was like, I just like, couldn't have this cool, unique weapon that also had poison darts that he could shoot out of?
Speaker: The concept art? No. They were too busy making him a tragic character. And also not wanting to animate poison darts. Or have kids, as Daryl said, you know, shoot them in their own mouths.
Speaker: Toy sales on all that. i mean I may or may not be on that concept art.
Speaker: No. You stuck on that concept art, Nick?
Speaker: I don't believe it. But anyway, ah part of the montage is that Dooku has a missing ah very specific mission for Zavaz. He Dordaria to meet with King Katuku.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And bring him back alive. Simple missing. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, Anakin and Obi-Wan show up because they gotta. So just a walking metaphor for the cycle of abuse, two space wizards and a whole bunch of racist stereotypes walk into a palace.
Speaker: Yep. That's it. That's all I got. Mm-hmm. But yeah, remember King Katuku? He was yeah actually from the very first episode of that aired of the Clone Wars yeah and was part of the start of the Ryloth arc.
Speaker: Yeah. <unk>s It's where where ah Jar Jar Binks was there. He did a funny dance in I'm Gonna Die. Jedi Master, I'm Gonna Die. It is Captain Kill Me.
Speaker: this And also we're back on Tordaria. And it again, I mentioned it before, but I like the the arc seeing different architecture and and stuff. So and they're like this is a flying species, but also welcomes some guests who can't.
Speaker: So they have like the floating platforms and stuff like that. Yeah, I that was right i'm very interesting. That said, with all this activity, Ventress has to speed up her plan of revenge.
Speaker: And so she shows up and she activates Savage's sleeper agent. Well, this is after, after Savage horrifically messes up to the plan. Yes, yes.
Speaker: this This is a little bit down the line. In his defense, there was a Skywalker involved. Yes. And that's never good. No plan is ever going to hold up when there's a Skywalker in the mix.
Speaker: He had to fight Reymou Hakurai, and everybody knows that nobody beats Reymou Hakurai. But he did, like, deliberately, like, cross that guy's neck. And then, like, drag his corpse across a landing pad.
Speaker: And then into the room and just threw him down like ah like a cat. The cat caught a bird. Look, Dad, look what I caught!
Speaker: Dooku was rightfully upset and that's like, you ignorant beast! And now he's bleeding on my carpet? Mm-hmm.
Speaker: So yeah, and then in in the in the teamwork where Ventress and Savage start working together, Dooku just casually lightening Savage repeatedly, and Ventress takes Amari Warppipe out of there!
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Literally through the floor. Because prior to she, my adventurer's plan just goes to total shit because that cycle keeps on cycling. and using Savage, you the way that others used her, she more or less set up her own downfall at the hands of someone she spent every waking moment heaping abuse upon. It's like as much as my controlling magics were involved this time around, it doesn't change the fact that she felt almost to the letter the exact same stuff as those taken by the people that who are the very reason she ended up here in the first place.
Speaker: Like, as much as I know the show is making a statement on, like, the futility of revenge and how it's never, like, a good thing and never works out, I'm just still reading a lot more on cycles of abuse because just all Ventress did here was make someone else suffer the exact way she suffered and just perpetuated the cycle down to more or less the next generation. It's like, not only did she become the very thing she hated and spent all this time wanting to kill, she also made, like, another her to suffer the same consequences of another's actions in the process.
Speaker: Have the poetry thing into the ground yet? Yeah, it's like poetry, so if they rhyme. I was going to say, to piggyback off of your warp pipeline, that apparently it's just like the ah standard feature for Count Dooku's ships.
Speaker: They have to have an emergency seafloor, because he did that to his escape Anakin before, he did that to escape Obi-Wan in the previous... Yeah, because he needs to make it to Revenge of the Sith.
Speaker: Yep. Just like Grievous. I know, I just find that funny. just like that he I like to imagine that specifically he has to custom get these cruisers to be like, and I need ah an emergency slide. i I need the pneumatic bank tube.
Speaker: Well, it's just like, you know, Grievous needs something where he somehow has always blocked her mannequin's view no matter what. Oh, that's the plot. The plot does that for him. Well, is this not the same thing?
Speaker: He has plot armor because he needs to get to a very specific point in a future movie in the franchise. I'm saying there's a mechanical aspect. who' like du know Dooku is actively planning this, whereas Grievous is coincidentally not seeing it.
Speaker: I don't believe these aren't the standard features to a Separatist cruiser. Because we never see anyone else use them. So I imagine that it's entirely... Maybe Grievous does have them, but he's too big to use them.
Speaker: That was my thought, honestly. It won't fit. Well, sometimes I do Sarah Kruse together. Exactly! So it's for both of them. Because what is Grievous really good at doing besides, you know, turning into Johnny Four lightsabers and becoming a helicopter?
Speaker: Running away! And turning into a weird bug guy. could, in the weird bug crawling form, that's how he gets through that. Well, the thing is, is that the problem is that General Grievous, he's not a plumber, so he can't use the Mario warp pipes.
Speaker: There you go. But Dooku, he is a plumber, clearly. Implying that Dooku even knows what a plumber is. he he puts on a He puts on his cap that's black and it has the the letter D on it.
Speaker: There we go. I think Duke only knows what a plumber is because he's had to hire one for the palace on Serenno. Mm-hmm. But anyway, you know, after everything kind of goes to shit, we now have Savage doing what Vedra said earlier, too, because now it's his turn to limp home and be like, Mom, come pick me up. I'm scared.
Speaker: Again, it's like poetry.
Speaker: I'm just saying. it's true and then tells the solution to help savage escape the jedi and also dooku and also also ventris it's like hey so you know how me and ventris made you do like uh hunger games and then manipulated you into killing your brother so we could use you for personal gain so i'm gonna do that to you again need you to go find my long less more or less son who is unfortunately now just half the man he used to be And I definitely had zero plans to use you for this from the get-go. Like, none of this ever occurred to me beforehand. This is just, like, an incidental fetch quest slash alternative objective I only came up with just now.
Speaker: What's that? Is someone saying something about poetry? Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of my every wish voice and the super awesome reveal I'm doing for the audience! Anyway, go boy, fetch! They run. truth yeah Now, so, we we know that Ventress is her daughter...
Speaker: Maul is her son and Savage is Maul's brother. so And Feryl is Savage's brother. And also she still calls Ventra sister.
Speaker: And so what is she doing pimping out all of her kids to the Sith? Okay, this is like a weird plan.
Speaker: And again, like, getting into the spoilers that you sort Getting into, like, the future stuff, because we know the end the game? Yeah, she... She has a plan, but I'm not sure if she ever had a goal beyond being... Yeah, witches be crazy.
Speaker: and i mean, and you know, I keep beating this dead horse or whatever, but literally she, you know, sets so much of this cycle of abuse into motion with what she's done to all of her kids.
Speaker: Even if they're like metaphorical kids. like Again, there's no confirmation that all of them are quote-unquote her children. It's just Maul and Ventress are definitively.
Speaker: Maul and Ventress are definitively, but if Savage is definitively Maul's brother... Well, they could have had the same dad, but different moms.
Speaker: Yes. yeah so you know Either way via transitive property. Either way via transitive property. She is manipulating all of their lives for goal that I am still we trying to unravel.
Speaker: Best I can guess is wishes be crazy. And then like just so much of the shit that has happened ah just amongst this whole little group right here is all because of horrible choices that Mother Talzin made and like awful things she did to her own kids.
Speaker: Hooray! some, again we're still trying to figure out the reason beyond... Is the reason just witches be crazy? I mean what reason does anyone else need for doing horrible shit to their kids?
Speaker: Her reason is lol LMAO.
Speaker: Also... i mean, she is messing around with Sith Lords and Jedi and seemingly with, like, no care for, like, the fact that, like, you do realize that they both have armies and if you piss them off, they're going to be angry.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. I think she's just banking on somehow Night Sister Magic getting her out of that and that, you know, torturing her children and making them suffer... for years and years and years isn't going to come back and bite her in the ass somehow.
Speaker: I'm sure that'll work out great. That'll work out great for her. It'll be perfect. but We'll see how that goes. Yeah, we'll check we'll check back in later. But one thing that I also noticed when she mentioned, you know, hey, Savage, you got to go get your brother, where he said, in just what was kind of like a throwaway line that I have feelings about, he's all like, but all my kids are dead.
Speaker: Which, like that of implies that some part of him remembers Feral and knows Feral is dead. But I wonder if he's aware that Feral died by his own hand, and if so, to what degree?
Speaker: and I wonder if it'll ever hit him just what he did, for that matter. Mm-hmm. So yeah, now Darth Maul will teach Savage, and notably, Savage betrayed Ventress, but Talzin still helps him.
Speaker: So it's very interesting that it seems like Talzin was perhaps setting ah her up for failure in that regard, like she accounted for this.
Speaker: Which is crazy. Yeah, Talzin was only ever using Ventress from the get-go, she was only ever a tool. and That's what I'm getting, was like, Me and Daryl and Betsy know like how this sort of wraps up.
Speaker: But it's also like from this initial interaction, it seems like he has a grander plan that he's puppeteering the, puppeteering this. It's like, it's kind of odd. It's like, I'm not sure where the plan is going, mother daughter. Why are you so confident in all this?
Speaker: yeah if anything, it just seems like she's kind of doing whatever she wants to achieve, whatever goal she wants in the moment, and not caring who else it impacts, hurts or whatever. And I mean, sure, maybe Night Sister our Magic, she's seen some kind of future thing because we can't necessarily rule that out.
Speaker: But also I would put it past her just do whatever self-serving thing she wants to do in the moment because, you know, she wants to. And again, she is, as you mentioned, and part of the cyclical nature that we've been hinting at, and you definitely have a lot of words to say about that in the sort of pseudo wrap-up to this. Yes, hinting.
Speaker: But it's very much so thats that she is just as worse of a manipulator as the Sith Lords, the yeah to a degree the Jedi. that Definitely Dooku and his relationship with both of his now failed apprentices.
Speaker: Which makes it not very surprising that all of these eventually meet their downfall. At the hands of you know their own people, no less. But very much this is also on brand with this this whole arc's allusion to Frankenstein by Mary Shelley.
Speaker: and He's not a monster by nature. He's twisted into one by everyone around them, especially those in power. Evil is not born, it is made.
Speaker: Deep down, like, as we mentioned earlier in the previous episode, Sava's only fought to defend what he cared about most, his brother. Yeah, not even what he cared about, who he cared about.
Speaker: And even now, he's being twisted to seek out another brother. And it's gonna keep going on like this, but I feel that you have the floor now.
Speaker: Yeah, because it's just that, you know, you could see how Savage never really made his own choices, and for that matter, in a lot of ways, neither did Ventress. Like, I've joked a lot about demanding which episodes I wanted to guest star to talk about, and this one was honestly on my list purely because there's just so much in this arc that there I have to dig into.
Speaker: Like, I've talked about the nature and cycle of abuse this whole time, and You know, now I'm still refusing to shut up about it because just so much of this arc is ah lens to examine the lasting impacts that cycle has. Like all these terrible things that happen to everyone involved stem directly from that cycle, how they were victimized by someone who was a victim before, and then how easy it is for the abused to become the abuser and replicate that same behavior if the cycle doesn't get broken. Because like Ventress et al are just one example of this.
Speaker: we see the same story play out over and over again in the Star Wars. already talked about the similarities between Ventress and Anakin, but then there's also a lot to talk about the cycle of abuse within just the disaster lineage themselves. You know, you had Qui-Gon's awful treatment of Obi-Wan and how that made him into this neurotic, uptight, perpetually anxious person who was terrified of doing anything wrong because he lived in fear of disappointing people and being rejected.
Speaker: And then that made Obi just super emotionally distant, too emotionally distant to ever meet Anakin where he was at and offer the support for this kid dealing with his own trauma so that Annie learned by watching Obi how to bottle up all his feelings and bury them deep down outside where no one could ever see them, including him.
Speaker: But unlike Obi-Wan, he couldn't spend decades keeping all that repressed under 12 different layers of self-loathing. So instead, it had to fester as resentment and anger and rage that built up until it finally just exploded out of him.
Speaker: And that's not even going into the fear he always carried with him that he expressed his anger because that was just a more comfortable emotion that he found easier to deal with. So of course it's you know a super great idea to then put that pile Neuroses, who was raised by another pile of Neuroses from the age of nine, in charge of a literal child.
Speaker: Because as Xanny's demonstrated, that clearly works super well the first time around. And like his master before him, he does do his best, like I'll give him credit, but he's just carrying so much baggage and struggling with so much on his own that he fails to support her and meet her needs too.
Speaker: and you know It's unlike the Sith because, as Nick, you mentioned, the rule of two is just a cycle of abuse codified into doctrine. Everything the disaster lineage did came from a place of good intent, but they failed to break the cycle because they failed to ever address the things that actually kept the cycle going.
Speaker: None of them ever took a step back and really looked at what happened or processed their experiences because it's just so much easier to keep your head down and your nose the proverbial grimestone and focus on the day-to-day in front of you because that's so much more manageable than everything else while swearing up and down that you're going to do the work to change and you just need to get through this first but then there's always a this to get through and yeah actually doing the work is way easier said than done there's all kinds of things that get in the way in extenuating circumstances that add further complications and make even just starting that work harder than it already was but that's a whole other discussion that this podcast have time for right now because i will not be able to shut up once i get started about that either
Speaker: So, you know, in order to try and make myself shut up, what I'm basically getting at is most of the War on the Stars could have been avoided if somebody had sent even one of these idiots into therapy and forced them to actually just talk about their feelings for once in their life. Oh my god.
Speaker: Excellent. Excellent analysis. And I feel tossing a cheesy joke or a cheap one-liner after that would be a disservice to it would be the to the passion and heart that you have poured into everything for this episode.
Speaker: Haven't we just called several therapists at the franchise? Can we do that? Please. Only in fanfiction. Then we wouldn't have a Star War. It's true. We would have, you know, well-adjusted people that could maybe actually cope with their own emotions and all the stuff that happened to them.
Speaker: There's no therapy in space. We wouldn't have a Star War. We would have a Star Trek instead. and i was about to say that very same thing. The only difference between the Star War and the Star Trek is the existence of therapy.
Speaker: Yep. It is, really. And the second Star Trek series, one of the regulars was... a therapist who was part of the command crew.
Speaker: She was indeed. She wasn't a very good one, but she was one. they were, you know. And they exist.
Speaker: At least they existed. Like, I do not think there is a known like Star Wars therapists but there's one known Star Wars therapist and it was a reprogrammed interrogation droid yeah so yeah that's their idea of therapy reverse interrogation and okay
Speaker: so and any last thoughts on this Lauren what were were your thoughts on this Dathomir Ark, this being your first time experiencing it, what did you think of Savage Extreme?
Speaker: but So basically, I really like the Nightsisters as a concept. I really like Dathomir. I think they're really cool. ah so you know, Betsy, the first time you showed up, we we we talked about the Mandalorians, who I was not very into, but this group this group has the potential for mass Yuri, and that makes them the best group in all of Star Wars history.
Speaker: It's also canon. Yeah. I'm just saying it's also canon. Savage Opress has a hilarious name and a tragic existence, and I love it quite a lot.
Speaker: It was definitely interesting getting ah some more insight on ah the the Separatist side. That's very cool. Less less Jedi focus. This is the first of the what I call the bad guy arc, where we get to see...
Speaker: More of that heroes on both sides thing. Yeah. Wait until you start seeing the red logo. Mm-hmm. Oh, he's already seen some red. Yes. We're getting into the red logo and stuff.
Speaker: Yes, I have seen a little bit. We'll get there when we get there. Yeah. And seeing Ventress actually get some time in the spotlight is really cool. You know, whenever the series started, it seems like it seemed like she was going to be a really major player, but then for three seasons, she sort of didn't do a whole lot. So seeing her finally actually get some action now has been really It action, but like character. Yeah, character development. Force, she was just sort of just...
Speaker: femme fatale villain lady. Yes. So yeah, I really liked these episodes. They were very cool.
Speaker: I didn't like them at all. Oh yeah, i've caught obviously. be Betsy clearly hated them. and I have nothing to say about them. well It was actually Uno reverse. We were putting the gun to her head to talk about these episodes.
Speaker: Yep, yep, totally. Totally. yeah yeah I definitely didn't make sure that I said enough that Yeah, the this Google Doc is 15 pages long, and it's mostly me. Yeah, and and we've been going for about two hours.
Speaker: Oh shit, we have? Yeah, we have. one is one of this one I'm also not sorry at all. But yeah, I think we should close up, but also, I guess we're going to see if you like Betsy's talks, which we all do. I especially like it very much. yeah excellent We're going to hear her again next time on Clone Watch.
Speaker: Because I get to talk about my daughter. Next time on Clone Watch when shit starts to get really weird and i have the er weird and I have to echo Alex Damon from Star Wars Explained.
Speaker: I like when Star Wars gets weird. Oh yeah. it's good Don't we all? If you thought Witches and Magic is a bit strange for Star Wars, so um...
Speaker: You got a whole nother thing coming next time. Yep. And, uh... So my daughter is there! yep She's very good and I love her. She's never done anything wrong in her life.
Speaker: Nope. Well, she does kind of something wrong, but it's not really her fault. I would die for Ahsoka Tano, okay? She's a good girl. And you will. I would volunteer.
Speaker: That's my daughter. You volunteer as tribute... you know Into the night sister Hunger Games. It's my baby. She's a good girl. Well, we will wrap it up that for this time then, and we'll be back for Star Wars to get kind of weird.
Speaker: We hope that you join us on the next Clone Watch episode. And until then, thanks for listening, and see you next time. Bye.
Speaker: This has been Casual Nerdity. We hope you've enjoyed your time with us and look forward to having you back.
