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165 - Black Christmas (2019) w/ Nichole Goble
97 Plays10 months ago
"You messed with the wrong sisters.”
Happy holidays from the Disenfranchised Podcast! In wrapping up our “Blackest Christmas” miniseries, we’re talking about the most recent attempt to reboot the Black Christmas franchise and we’re joined by the host of Bodies of Horror, Nichole Goble! Together, we’re talking #MeToo, subtlety in screenwriting, this movie’s rushed production schedule, and getting schooled on the ins and outs of collegiate Greek life! Stuff your stockings, swirl your nog, and join us for another holiday film!
Follow Nichole Goble at the following platforms (and don’t be creepy about it!):
- Make sure you listen to Bodies of Horror as part of the Anatomy of a Scream network on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts!
- @bodiesofhorror on Bluesky, @bodiesofhorrorpodcast on Instagram, and @BodiesHorror on Twitter X!
- Listen to Nichole as a regular contributor on The Pod and the Pendulum!
We’ve never been up in the frathouse! We’re too busy hanging out on the following platforms:
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Letterboxd, and YouTube
- Email us your thoughts or requests to [email protected]
- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Instagram and Letterboxd or @suswarlock on Bluesky
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including our weekly What Are We Watching? show: https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can either buy it on BluRay through his website or buy/rent it through Amazon Prime!
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Transcript
00:00:10
Speaker
you
Introduction and Guest Arrival
00:00:21
Speaker
Oh holy cow Christmas already. Welcome to the disenfranchised podcast where that podcast all about those franchises have won those films that fancy themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. I am your host Stephen Foxworthy and joining me as always don't mind the black marks on his forehead. It is Tucker. Hey Tucker.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi there, Steven. How's it going? It's going pretty well, man. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm doing really well. Thank you for asking. I do enjoy asking. And joining us today so that we do not have to talk about this alone and tiptoe and trip all over ourselves from bodies of horror, from the pod in the pendulum, one of the best in the game, one of the best to ever do it. It's Nicole Goble. Nicole, welcome. We are thrilled to have you.
00:01:14
Speaker
Hello, I am Nicole, your token female representative. No pressure, no pressure. It's all on your shoulders. No, I'm so thrilled to be here.
00:01:31
Speaker
We are absolutely excited to have you. So Tucker and I have kind of talked about our kind of histories with the Black Christmas franchise already. When I put kind of the feelers out, this and
Black Christmas Franchise Overview
00:01:45
Speaker
the original were the two that you kind of put your mark down for. What is your history with the Black Christmas franchise and specifically with this movie? What made you want to talk about it with us? So Black Christmas, as a horror fan,
00:02:00
Speaker
You have to know it. You have to love it. You have to respect it, I think. And it was also my mom, uh, growing up was always one of those that I think is PBS, uh, where I grew up. Um, we had, I grew up in a very rural area where cable was, uh, a privilege and not a right. Um, and so you would have liked the 24 hours of a Christmas story.
00:02:28
Speaker
And my mom was just obsessed with this movie. And I'm like, oh, well, mom, there's this other movie that this filmmaker has also made. It's also a Christmas movie. Let's watch it. And so, yeah, that was kind of like my, an entry point. For this one in particular, also a family
00:02:56
Speaker
story. I had gone back to visit family after a long time of not being able to go back. And I went to the theaters to see this with my niece and her fiance the day before Christmas. Right on. Yeah. So you saw this one first run in theaters. Yes.
00:03:23
Speaker
right before Christmas, perfect timing. So generally speaking, you're a fan of the franchise, a fan of the film? Yeah, I am a fan, I guess, of the franchise. 2006 is a little bit of a hard watch for me, just because I feel like one of the things in one of the, I'm sure part of the conversation that we'll have
00:03:52
Speaker
is that I
Diving into Black Christmas 2019
00:03:53
Speaker
feel like the relationships in 2006 between our sorority sisters or girls, um, doesn't seem as cohesive and as strong and where I feel both in the original and this one that is such a strength to, to both entries. So, um, I do like this one quite a bit. I like the original.
00:04:19
Speaker
I like 2006 for some of its elements, but, um, that, that one has always just been the one I have revisited the least. And maybe it's just because I don't like, I'm a vegan and I don't like skin cookies. Yeah. I don't blame you. I I'm not a vegan and I don't like skin cookies. So just not a fan really. No.
00:04:45
Speaker
Right on. I mean, we I think we were kind of conflicted about 2006 when we recorded that one with our last week, although I mean, that is that is 100 percent Arielle's jam like she as as the mid 2000s horror gore queen. That's kind of her. That's kind of her M.O.
00:05:05
Speaker
And there's definitely, I think, a lot to like with it. When I've gone back and rewatched it, there are a lot of good bits, but yeah, it's just not the one that I go to the most. And I've actually found myself recommending this one a little bit more recently than I would have even imagined coming out of the theater and being like, wow, I really kind of like this.
00:05:35
Speaker
I found myself actually recommending this more to folks. So yeah, that's kind of my 30,000-foot view of the Black Christmas franchise. And I do include a Christmas story as part of that franchise, which it's fun.
00:06:01
Speaker
Oh, it's OK. Where does it fit in? Like which one is it a sequel to the first one? Is that how that works? Well, I think it's. Oh, OK. Yeah. Oh, I guess it does take place like in the 50 or in the 40s. So I think that Ralphie is the brother. To to one of our characters. Like there's like a dad had an affair and there's a sister. Yeah.
00:06:30
Speaker
I like to create these little stories. I maybe maybe Margot Kidder's dad. Yes. Oh, that would explain a lot. It really was a lot when it comes right down to it. That's hilarious. Right on. No, I I so I watched all of the Black Christmas films in 2020 for the first time and
00:06:59
Speaker
This one falls right in the middle of the other two for me. I really I love the original. I think it is incredibly influential. It's hard to it's kind of hard to overstate the significance of the original. And I'm just not into the the gorier elements of the first remake in 2006.
00:07:27
Speaker
But this one, I wanted to like this one a lot more than I did because it does something that I love when horror does, which is it's incredibly topical and it's incredibly relevant to a specific issue at a specific time. And this is 2019 in the aftermath of the Weinstein
00:07:51
Speaker
thing, I guess the evidence of that coming out and all of this, the Me Too movement and everything that that spawned and everything that created. And I wanted to love this one a lot more than I did, but it
00:08:11
Speaker
There's no subtlety here. Like it's very on the nose. It's very kind of overt. It it it lays everything bare out there for you. And basically, this is what this is. And we're not going to sugarcoat it. And I find that admirable in a way, but it also it it's difficult to watch sometimes for that reason. You know what I mean?
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think that that's something with the original that a lot of people do praise. I think, especially as we're going back now, in 2023, and in more recent years, can go back and say, wow, there were some really progressive and interesting ideas that this film was laying out that I don't think we were really chatting about and respecting at that time. Because I think it came out like a
00:09:07
Speaker
a year or two after Roe v. Wade. And you have an abortion kind of subplot that I think is so interesting and quiet and profound. And like I said, you have these really strong female characters. And yeah, I mean, now we fast forward to
00:09:36
Speaker
you know, the release of 2019's Black Christmas. And like you said, we're on the heels of a lot of different things happening. In 2015, you have the release of The Hunting Ground documentary, which detailed the incidence of sexual assault on college campuses, which is something that, unfortunately, so many folks can raise their hand to.
00:10:05
Speaker
Um, and, and say that this has been something that they've, uh, horrifically experienced. So, um, I, it's when listening to criticism for this film, I think you have to, you really have to do a lot of, uh, sifting through some noise of folks that just don't want to hear.
00:10:32
Speaker
I think even this more blatant message, which I do think is important. But there is criticism to what you were saying. There isn't this subtlety. And I think as we discussed the film, I think that there are some choices that are made that feel to not hit on the obvious themes and make the points that the filmmakers and the writer wanted to make.
00:11:03
Speaker
Right. Yeah, absolutely. Tucker, you want to weigh in on that? I think this movie's biggest sin, as far as its message goes, is that for me, the ending of the film negates the whole thing. Like, I'm on board. Like, I understand what they're saying and I totally agree. But then to have the villains of this movie
00:11:30
Speaker
be men that are brainwashed, basically, like supernaturally brainwashed into being bad men. It just it just feels like that. It just takes the power out of everything else that they said in the entire movie makes it seem more performative than anything else.
00:11:49
Speaker
And it's it's a damn shame because there's a lot of stuff that is discussed and brought up in this movie that is is righteous and like like should be said as loud as possible. But then when you say it that loud and then just negate the whole thing at the end, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way, you know. But I think to that and I agree. And I certainly understand that point as well and
00:12:20
Speaker
maybe there's a hundred different ways the film could have ended to move around, I think landing that way. But I think making that choice is actually kind of interesting because I think it makes much more of a statement about institutional, you know, the, the institutional aspects of what's happening and how there, you know, it,
00:12:49
Speaker
It's not just one person that's doing this because we're not all, it's a nature versus nurture situation of, you know, are people just inherently bad or are they put in situations where they have to make choices and they opt for choices that are bad and cause lots of harm. And I think this is saying like, it's a little bit more complex than that.
00:13:18
Speaker
and that there are institutions that have been propped up on these ideals and are so adamant on protecting them that basically they indoctrinate folks. I think it's much more of how our society works on indoctrination versus let's give them an out. Because I think for me, one thing that's really interesting
00:13:48
Speaker
And I think that this would be maybe one of the many ways to subvert, I think some of the issues that people have with the ending is especially with a couple of the characters who have an opportunity to see these characters make different choices. Um, to say like,
Production Insights and Challenges
00:14:06
Speaker
I don't want to be a part of this. I need to back away. Um, I want to be like, not just a good guy. I want to be a good human. I want to like protect people who are in need.
00:14:18
Speaker
Um, and are being targeted here. Um, and instead we see them kind of fall, uh, kind of quickly, the culture of toxic masculinity. So it's, yeah, I, it's, it's one of those things that you just have to kind of like, Russell down with and, and figure out like, is this something like,
00:14:44
Speaker
I can kind of see what they're saying and I understand like there's some interesting thoughts about indoctrination and kind of the institutional aspects of these ideas versus you're just kind of giving these people an out and saying, well, no one should be responsible for causing these harms because oops goo.
00:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, right. I think I hadn't considered the institutional angle of it either. And that I like that take a lot and know what you said makes absolute sense like the things the length of people will go to to protect their institutions.
00:15:26
Speaker
as someone, I know this is going to come as a big surprise to everybody, but I was raised religious. What? I know. I never mentioned it. I really should talk about that aspect. How did I not know this about you, Stephen? I thought we were friends. I thought we were too. Maybe you should just pay better attention, Tucker. I guess so. But I'm very engaged in
00:15:51
Speaker
I've been watching a lot of documentaries and YouTube videos about religious organization and religious sex in particular, like IBF and things like that. And the way that these institutions will completely bury these sexual and even on a larger scale, the Catholic fucking church, the way that these these things will be buried so as not to
00:16:19
Speaker
cast aspersions on the organization, when all it really does is make the organization look so much worse than that information comes out, is absolutely heinous. And I mean, universities, yes, absolutely as well. But, you know, you saying the lengths people will go to, how much more lengths will they go to when it is, you know, they're the thing that they literally based their entire life on. Like, it's kind of scary to think about it.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like this film underscores that by having a professor at the helm, right? It's not just another student as a professor. And so we see kind of this lineage, I feel, really being kind of like dropped down. And you're so right. I always like to say that I was raised
00:17:13
Speaker
fundamentalist adjacent, like nurse divorced when I was really young. And my dad became kind of like a born again, kind of costal. And so I, you know, when I would go and spend the mandated time with him, it was a very harmful environment, especially someone with a disability. And so
00:17:44
Speaker
you know, delving into like what these institutions are doing and how they're treating individuals and what these institutions will do, how they'll leverage leadership and folks to protect that. It's so fascinating. And again, is this something that this film could have somehow finessed in a different way? Probably. But when I guess that
00:18:15
Speaker
How I try to justify my appreciation of this film is like, no, I think it's making a statement of indoctrination and kind of these institutional things. And, you know, so I look at it that way, but. First of all, you don't have to justify your enjoyment of anything. Like what you like. Absolutely. But I mean, no, because and that's that is an interesting point. But and again, I
00:18:46
Speaker
I read in reading up on this movie before we started talking about it, I saw somewhere that the director said that the screenwriter set out to make the most feminist movie possible. And it feels like maybe they thought with a message this important, with something to say this important,
00:19:05
Speaker
We can't afford subtlety. We can't afford to, you know, put it under layers of things. Again, I don't know that for sure. That was never stated, but it seems like they just went all out with trying to make this as feminist as possible and making sure that anyone in the audience understood. And it could also be that
00:19:28
Speaker
This movie is made for a very specific group of people, for a very specific niche. The director also said that she wanted to, instead of leering at or objectifying the characters, she wanted to make sure that the audience felt seen, which indicates that maybe this audience is a little more niche than the previous entries in this franchise had been.
00:19:53
Speaker
You know, which, which may be why so many people have a problem with it because they don't understand that maybe this isn't explicitly for them. Right.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that because now that you've brought up how the ending is symbolic towards institutionalization and stuff like that, I didn't think of that before.
00:20:24
Speaker
And I get that now, and that makes it a little better, but it still didn't work for me. And it might just be because maybe it's not for me. And I think that might be one of my biggest issues with it is that I want to be on board with it.
00:20:45
Speaker
because I do agree with what they're saying, but I just they just they lose me, especially at the end, because I think it's I think it's the way the film is. It's not what the film is saying. It's it's the execution of the filmmaking. I don't even want to say the way they're saying it, because I don't want to discount anything that's being said in this movie. I just don't think that that for me, that the film is made in a way that
00:21:12
Speaker
I enjoy, I guess, because I wanted to like this movie a lot more than I did. Like my want to like it is up here and my actual like for it is like I'm trying to jump up there and smack it. I'm trying so hard because it feels it feels wrong to not like a movie that has such a powerful message that I agree with. It feels wrong. It feels dirty to not like this movie. And so I'm kind of struggling with that right now.
00:21:43
Speaker
I think, again, you don't have to justify, I think, not necessarily not liking a movie. I think we
Thematic Depth and Audience Reception
00:21:54
Speaker
all have movies that, oh, well, the message worked or we like this piece or, you know, whatever, but maybe the film overall just didn't work. And yeah, you could be speaking to something that's true where
00:22:10
Speaker
it was very much intended for a specific audience. And if you don't fall within some parameters, it's just not gonna hit you the same. So there's, I think there's, this film is a cake that you can slice, I think a thousand different ways, in which I find in and of itself, a really kind of fascinating thing to think about.
00:22:41
Speaker
Well, that's kind of the rad thing about art, is you kind of get to take whatever you want out of it.
00:22:48
Speaker
And I think that's really cool. I had those. This movie kept making me think of. Did you guys see the movie she said? Not yet. No, did you guys see that? I was so excited to see that movie like when it dropped on like I think was on Max or one of the streaming services. I was like, yes, because all of the people involved with it behind the camera in front of the camera. I was so ready.
00:23:14
Speaker
And I just, it just, I just didn't think it was a very well made movie. And again, it's a shame because it had so much to say, like Ashley Judd, like was brave enough to come in there and literally tell her story on camera. And for a movie that just fell flat. And I kind of got the same feeling out of this one, too. And it's a shame, the damn shame. Yeah.
00:23:41
Speaker
I'm just now realizing I never introduced this movie. So, um, Hey, it's black Christmas, you guys. 23 minutes into this recording. Um, we're talking about the 2019 remake of black Christmas, continuing our, uh, watch through of all three black Christmases, uh, directed by Sophia to call, uh, written by Sophia and April Wolf and starring Imogen Poots, Elise Shannon, Lily Donahue, Brittany O'Grady, Caleb Eberhart, and Carrie Elway is what a cast.
00:24:10
Speaker
What a picture. What an accent on Kerry Elway's there. What the hell was he doing? What was that? He's channeling his Men in Tights role. Yeah, I guess. I love Kerry Elway's. I just thought his accent was hilarious in this movie. I will say after going through all of the Saw films,
00:24:36
Speaker
Thank you. Like, thank you, Carrie, for not going that direction, but instead going here. I find this so much more. And I am a Dr. Gordon in Saw franchise lover. You are. But that accent.
00:24:58
Speaker
is a struggle. You're struggling, we're struggling, everyone's struggling. And so at least I, this is fine. Like, just let it go. Yeah. Another thing I will say, Carrie Elway is really, really good at playing a creep.
00:25:19
Speaker
He's done it a few times, yeah. And it's good every time. Kiss the Girls is the other primary example for me where I'm just like, that is so good. And you're completely subverting the expectations in that movie by having it be him and it works. And then when it is revealed that it's him, he plays it so well. It's so good.
00:25:40
Speaker
So I do, I do appreciate his performance in this film, but having seen him play similar characters in a much more subtle and nuanced way, kind of disappointed me a bit because like, you know, from the beginning that this is the guy.
00:25:55
Speaker
This guy's got something to do with it because he's just from the first word that he said, you're like, yeah, this guy's fucking asshole. I hate this dude. If you didn't know it in the classroom scene, then you absolutely know it when he runs into her outside the outside the house. Like you absolutely know it there. Oh, yeah. She's got the he's got the list of names. Like, just just tell us he's the bad guy you told us. Well, and I. The scene in the classroom.
00:26:24
Speaker
is interesting because I think it, it's hard because I think that we're looking at it from a perspective too of being the viewer. We're in a horror movie. We're nowhere in, we're in a horror movie. So we're looking for the villain. We're looking for these spots of decay and the spots of people behaving badly. So it can be like, ooh,
00:26:53
Speaker
Is this the person? But yeah, if this was your professor, like, would you think that, like, how far would that train of thought go? Um, if you were to, and because of kind of the supernatural aspect of this film, it's hard to kind of root it in any like firm,
00:27:20
Speaker
Uh, I think grounding of reality, but when I sit there and be like, Oh, you're talking about this. I bet that you were orchestrating all the men on campus. Yeah. Right. I'm just saying I would assign the petition. I'm just saying like, yeah.
00:27:46
Speaker
And it really, that whole thing reads like, it's one of those things that I always find really weird that movies do, where it'll, it'll feel like they're ramping up a lecture and like getting ready to build to a point and then the bell rings and classes dismiss. And you're like, why did you start that lecture so late in the class period? 30 seconds before classes. Right. It's like the three.
00:28:10
Speaker
Exactly. It's like the class ends at three and they're like, OK, two fifty five. Anyway, here's what we're talking about today. It's like, no. You know why every movie does this? And it's just like we're going to get to the point, you know, the point. And this is somehow going to be very useful to you later on in this movie, or I'm hitting on the main theme of what we're going to be discussing somehow. Like it always works out that way.
00:28:38
Speaker
And it's always that or it's always let's spend an extended classroom scene of the most boring bit until we get to a student that raises their hand and is like, oh, but I want to bring up this point. And then it's like, oh, well, the bell run. Oops.
00:28:59
Speaker
Well, we'll pick that up next time, which is the most unrealistic thing in any movie that does that, because everybody's looking at the time in any class that you're in, whether it be like like grade school, elementary school, high school, college, everybody's looking at the clock. No, no professor is not watching the clock and knowing how much time they have left. No student is not watching the clock and not knowing how much time they have left.
00:29:27
Speaker
Cause they want to get out the door and also a student, a student knows like, just shut up. Like within three minutes of that bell, like quiet, just be quiet because you've got to make an escape.
00:29:44
Speaker
You've got plans, you've got business. And everyone's like, they'll start packing their stuff up early too. Like, again, as someone who used to teach high school, you know exactly what happens in those five minutes before the class is over. So me putting my book in my bag.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, maybe if I do this at like quarter speed, he won't realize what I'm actually doing. Like, no, everyone wants to get out the door, but it so so he's like talking about prejudices and like why why he doesn't teach books written by marginalized
00:30:25
Speaker
authors. And basically makes an incredibly bad faith argument, makes an incredibly obtuse point, and then is like, hey, by the way, it's hard for me to do my job when people are signing petitions to get me fired. Just saying.
00:30:45
Speaker
Oh yeah. Bye everybody. Merry Christmas. It's the petition's fault. It's the petition's fault. I didn't do anything wrong. Like I can't be held accountable. You're wrong for getting mad at me for being an asshole. Exactly. I'm not wrong for being an asshole. You're wrong for reacting to me being an asshole. I fucking hate that.
00:31:04
Speaker
Oh, man. That's Cape Fear. That's what bothered me about the original Cape Fear is the whole time Robert Mitchum's like, Hey, man, I'm not an asshole for raping somebody. You're an asshole for telling on me. Or you're an asshole for, you know, withholding evidence so that I got put into jail. Right. At all. But isn't that nightmare on Elm Street? It's like, who's the bad guy? The person who killed, murdered and
00:31:35
Speaker
canonically sexually assaulted children or the parents that were mad. And yeah, right. It's like the vigilante justice. Not I. This is me making a disclaimer. Do I endorse vigilante justice? Catch me elsewhere. It's complicated. It's complicated. But yeah, I always hate when you have to peace that out because it's like, don't don't make me side.
00:32:04
Speaker
on that. Yeah. It's like you hear these plant my my flag here because it's a very bad space. It's it's a weird place to be like you hear all these stories in the news of of like parents who will go and murder the person who sexually assaulted their young child. And you're like, uh, where do I stand on this?
00:32:29
Speaker
And I mean, when it comes right down to it, being a piece of shit is not something reserved for one specific type of person or one specific group of people. Anyone can be a piece of shit. And that's really what it comes down to. Like, yes, is Freddy a piece of shit? Absolutely. Should the parents have done what they did? Nope. Like, both things can be true at the same time. But it does place us in a very conflicted spot as a result. So, yeah, it's, you know, a lot of shades of shit going on.
00:32:59
Speaker
really when you think about it. So we're we're 32 minutes and let's go ahead and talk the plot of this thing before we dig any deeper, because there's a lot more to talk about here, obviously. But this is the part of the show that we call the plot in 60 seconds. This is the part where usually at the behest of either the D six of destiny or the Canadian quarter of indifference, one of us will be tasked to recount the plot of the film in 60 seconds or less. However,
00:33:30
Speaker
Nicole, our gracious guest, has volunteered to recount the plot of 2019's Black Christmas in 60 seconds or less. I will go ahead and put 60 seconds on the clock. I can give you the 10 and... I
Final Reflections on Black Christmas 2019
00:33:49
Speaker
can give you the 10 and 30 second warnings if you desire. Yeah, give me a 30. And then, yeah, yeah, just give me the warnings because
00:33:59
Speaker
I haven't verbose mofo is hey, it is all good. And I mean, I'm not going to like if we run out of time, I will say and time, but I will let you finish. Unlike Kanye, I will let you. So so I have 60 seconds on the clock and I will go ahead and start whenever you are ready. OK. I am good to go. Riley, our main protagonist and.
00:34:29
Speaker
The holdovers at Hawthorne College are preparing to bunker down for the holidays. Some of the other students kind of making their departures during various points, but strange things seem afoot. Sorority sisters are disappearing with parents calling and saying, hey,
00:34:54
Speaker
Uh, my child was supposed to arrive on the train and never, um, so Riley and her sisters, uh, after a, uh, attack and after, uh, some prolonged, uh, uh, business of being harassed via, uh,
00:35:14
Speaker
yip yap, a.k.a. any social media that they needed to 10 seconds generalize. They find out that it is the members of the D.K.O. and they are being brainwashed by a collective. Hooray. You did it. We did it. It is done. All important, relevant information out. Broad strokes covered. Yes, I got I got I think a piece of
00:35:44
Speaker
No, you're good. We've look, we have had we've been doing this for cash. I think we're in our fourth year now and.
00:35:56
Speaker
That was great by any standard. My favorite one, though, and maybe the worst one ever, it was on our Speed Racer episode where Brett just completely loses it. And it's an amazing piece of art on its own just to listen to. And I will throw that one out. Anytime someone feels like, oh, man, that was rough, or just go listen to the Speed Racer episode.
00:36:25
Speaker
It's kind of amazing. We've all made our peace with it. And I know a lot of people who come on are like, that was really nerve wracking. That was more stressful than I thought it was. Not my intention, which is why I try to ask in advance. But thank you for doing that. I appreciate it. Of course. Of course.
00:36:45
Speaker
Um, yeah, the, um, so we talked last week when Arielle was here about the use of, uh, the cell phones and the social media. Cause the phone is a very important element in all three of these films. Uh, communication, very important aspect and how in the 20 2006 version, it's, you know, the flip phone, it's the T nine texting. Oh Jesus.
00:37:13
Speaker
It's all of that. And they use it in very interesting ways. The killer will be calling from the phone of the previous person killed. And that uses that to build tension and suspense. But now, in the smartphone era, I feel like horror films have to go even further.
00:37:34
Speaker
to incorporate and either eliminate cell phones or try to incorporate them. How do you think this film did with the way that it incorporated and utilized not just phones, but also social media and the way that we engage online? The use of social media, especially in horror, is interesting. I feel like there's kind of this default of now
00:38:05
Speaker
Uh, looking at how people post, it's not just like the apps they use, how they use it. It's, Oh, you posted this video and we want to punish you for doing this. Um, you know, I think about this film because there's this whole thing of where members of the DKO are really upset that, uh, Chris had posted the performance that, uh, the sort of sisters do.
00:38:34
Speaker
at the talent show at the beginning. And you know, I also think of another film I watched, I think at the very beginning of this year, Sick, which has this whole thing of, you know, a video was posted and it kind of leads to the crux of the plot of
00:39:00
Speaker
the film in a lot of ways. So I think that there's a lot of commentary being made, not just with social media, but what are we posting? How are we posting? And where should there be kind of delineations of, all right, am I posting too much? Am I being criminally online? Is this something that's appropriate? So I
00:39:29
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see how this continues because I still think that, you know, horror films have found really interesting ways for a very long time to just remove phones. Even though cell phones were very much like part of our daily life, it would be like, oh, no cell service. Oh, my cell phone broke.
00:39:50
Speaker
Yeah. Um, at the very beginning of the film, so that, or, you know, the tried and true, my phone, my cell phone's dead. Yeah. Battery died. No reception. Yeah. Exactly. So I think now there's this, we can't, we can't do that anymore because people charge their shit before they leave the house. We can't do that anymore because of X, Y, or Z.
00:40:15
Speaker
So now we really have to figure out ways to incorporate it. But it would be interesting to see folks make a film that makes a little bit more of a point of commentary on it. I know there's Unfriended, which I think does very much a lot of the same things.
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, you're exactly right. The telephone has played such a key piece in this film. And I liked the little nod to the original when Helena's mom calls Riley and you get that very reminiscent of Billy Garble. At the beginning, I thought that was a really nice touch there.
00:41:10
Speaker
I liked the allusions to the original. They're not as in your face as a lot of them are. Every film in this series is so very, very different from the one that preceded it. And I think the first two are the most similar, but this one is very,
00:41:30
Speaker
It's set at a college, there's a main character named Jess, and that's about it. It's very Zack Snyder, Dawn of the Dead-esque in that way, to where you could call it something else and say it's an homage to Black Christmas. Right.
00:41:47
Speaker
But I also like that in keeping with the title, we're including things like that phone call that you mentioned, Nicole, or the- And the unicorn. Shows up at the first scene, that unicorn. Yeah. Well, and another nod, and digging into lots of different pieces before this report, because I'm like,
00:42:13
Speaker
I've missed like a handful of things that maybe if I actually do some really hardcore research and hardcore define that as you will. One of the things that's really interesting with the kills in this film is that they subvert all of the kills from the original film where women are killed
00:42:38
Speaker
Um, and you see men killed. So before, before we started, before we started recording, I was telling Stephen how my favorite part of this movie was how one of the killers got suffocated with a bag in this one. And I was like, yes. Yes. That's, that's where it's at. That's this movie. That's, I want the whole thing to be that good.
00:43:03
Speaker
Yeah, it was yeah, it was really nice. I think what you were saying earlier about social media sort of serves to put us in the scene in this movie that I think is probably the best at doing what it sets out to do. And it is the scene where she comes down and she's like, you put this online, like what the hell? You know, it's got all these views and they have that whole discussion about that. And the boyfriend guy is like,
00:43:28
Speaker
Well, I don't know what you expected. I love the back and forth between all of them and him because it's so realistic of the way that when people try to communicate about these sorts of issues that it breaks down.
00:43:43
Speaker
And I think it's a really powerful scene because of the way that they talk to each other because like when he's like, you need to calm down. Like you're immediately like, oh, you did not just say that. But at the same time, all the wrong things at all the wrong moments. Yes.
00:44:01
Speaker
But at the same time, you're like, you know, despite the fact that it doesn't have anything to do with you being a woman or what you're talking about, but maybe we all need to calm down. You know, there's so many ways that you can take that scene like everybody's kind of being an asshole towards each other instead of sitting down and having a calm discussion about it all, you know? And I think for me, it's the best scene in the movie because it just shows like how hard it is to have those kinds of discussions.
00:44:30
Speaker
I think it's very effective. Yeah. Even with people that you know and have a relationship with, I mean, it's always harder then, right? You never want to be able to call out our nearest and dearest when they do something. Um, not only because we are fearful of, you know, what that conversation may do in terms of our relationship, but you always have to struggle with
00:44:59
Speaker
You know, there's always that saying of you are who you keep close to you. You are your friends. You are kind of your inner circle. So if you're someone in your inner circle is acting like shit. What does that say about you? And, and so I think that, um, yeah, it's, uh, I like this conversation a lot. I like a lot of the conversations because having been in sorority.
00:45:30
Speaker
in college, I get real tired of just like how there seems to be this idea that, you know, if you are setting a film in a sorority and you have sorority sisters, they have to be kind of at odds with each other, right? And you don't get that here. You get that these are people who genuinely care about each other. They make missteps.
00:45:59
Speaker
They don't communicate as clearly as they should, but I think that there, even, I know a lot of people have issues with the character of Chris. I think that she does come from a point of truly caring about Riley and wanting to do well. It's just, again, I don't think that people are having like the conversations with her that they need to, to say like,
00:46:31
Speaker
fully get your stance here. Is there another way that we can do this?
00:46:35
Speaker
Right. So that's her whole character in a nutshell. That was something that that sort of bothered me is the person who has the most to say. In this film, the person who is the most outgoing with with putting things out there to disgust is just the most insufferable, like, wow, like you want to you want to listen to her and you would want to talk to her. But
00:47:04
Speaker
It's just like in that scene we were just talking about. Everything that someone said to her, she just shut it down. She came off as someone who's not willing to listen and discuss. She just wants to tell you how it is.
00:47:25
Speaker
And I don't know, I don't know for me, that was a misstep, but I don't know how that comes off to other people. Like, like I say, I don't, I don't know that this as much as I want it to be. I don't know that this movie's for me. Which is valid. And I'm.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, I love the actress. I love Alicia. Oh, yeah, she's great. She she does it like I love the character wouldn't be as insufferable if she weren't as good at playing it, you know, I really love all the performances in this movie. I really think everyone is absolutely killing it.
00:48:00
Speaker
And I was talking to Tucker at the beginning. That's part of the reason I am so conflicted. I think this is a beautiful movie. I think that the production design and the direction are phenomenal. Cinematography is great. The performances are incredible. My main problem is just the lack of nuance throughout. That becomes my big issue with the movie. But there are so many other things in here to love. And I love all the performances, all the actors. I think there's not a false note in any of these performances.
00:48:30
Speaker
to your point, Nicole, about the sisters not really being at odds with each other. I think in a lot of cases, people do stuff like that in order to create tension, obviously. And then we can have little character growth and arcs and things like that. But I think that was a very intentional choice on the part of Sofia Takal, the director.
00:48:54
Speaker
every interview that I read with her leading up to this is her talking about she wanted to make a movie about the power of
00:49:04
Speaker
women united for a common goal. The whole thing about the ant is very reminiscent of that. You want your friends to be ants because they're strong. They work together. They can bear a lot when they're all working together toward a common goal. And you see that even at the end when Chris comes in with that bow and arrow and that kind of cadre of sorority girls with her. And that's a really cool moment.
00:49:32
Speaker
And and so like even the the song at the beginning of the performance is sort of a kind of a backhanded homage to Mean Girls because they're like we want to do the opposite of what Mean Girls did rather than having these girls constantly at each other's throats. We want to show the power of women united, which I think is cool. Yeah. And I think you also get that towards the end when you realize that it's just not the sisters from I think the
00:50:02
Speaker
the sorority is Mu Kappa Epsilon. That sounds right. And you realize it's not just them being targeted, that it's just women. Yeah, it's every sorority on campus. Like the reveal when the security guard busts down the door and it's another sorority. And like, those guys are still there getting, you know, being killed. Wow. Yeah.
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I like that. I think sisters from that house or maybe it's another house run up to the car where Chris is driving and you know, it's just like get in. Yeah. We're we're going to go stop some some shit. We're going to crush the patriarchy. Get in. Yeah. And so I get in loser. We're going to crush. That's it. Exactly. So I I like that there's also that phone that crossed
00:50:58
Speaker
sororities because that's another kind of stereotype that especially in media and films, they like to pit sororities against each other. And I say sororities, but I think also in that respect, it's really all Greeks, right? It's like no two frats or no two sororities can really get along. We always have to be in competition with each other. If 80s comedies taught me anything, they taught me that that's true.
00:51:28
Speaker
Revenge of the Nerds, Animal House, like it's all right there. Well, and that's the whole Greek system, right? Like it is a series of competitions. That's why you have different houses. My understanding of the Greek system comes from the ABC Family Show Greek. So I don't know how, if they got it right or not, but like that seems to kind of be the whole thing is like there are several competitions throughout the school year, the semester, whatever.
00:51:53
Speaker
It's not it's not about you were in a sorority, Nicole, please enlighten us. That's why I bring it up because I want the real story. I so not only was I in a sorority, I was the leadership in my sorority. And I was also on our Panhellenic Council, which is kind of like an oversight committee for kind of Greek life. And no. Now I say this and
00:52:23
Speaker
to, to kind of offset any comments. I went to a very small college. Um, we had four sororities, four fraternities. So this is not like the most booming of sample sizes because when you get to like state schools or bigger schools, you're dealing with a lot more. Um, but there wasn't a competition. We, uh, we had a frat that we did an annual fundraiser with every year because
00:52:53
Speaker
one of our sisters and one of their brothers had gotten married and she had passed away I think from cystic fibrosis. And so every year we did a teeter totterathon. So we would, for I think it was 48 hours, we would move around campus teeter tottering on this homemade teeter totter in different places on campus so people could come.
00:53:23
Speaker
so able would provide donations. We had lots of collective events together. I was also a ROKAI. A ROKAI is a recruitment counselor. So during rush week, you de-affiliate from your sorority. So you cannot tell anyone what sorority you're from.
00:53:50
Speaker
Uh, especially, I mean, I'm obviously talking to the group of folks that are going through, uh, recruitment. Um, they cannot know what house you're affiliated with. You are deaffiliated and you take them to all of the houses. Um.
00:54:07
Speaker
for the specific nights. You talk them through the process. And no, it's not necessarily a competition at all. Now, some schools may have competitions between the houses. And I do hope that those competitions are done in kind of a friendly way and in a way to hopefully have some meaning to them. But no.
00:54:35
Speaker
I had great friends that were members of other sororities and it's not, I didn't have that experience. And again, based on my experience of being on the Panhellenic Council and like going and talking to other people who were part of like the Greek system in other schools, I'd really hope that that would be a mainstay.
00:55:03
Speaker
That's what I get for for basing all my knowledge on a TV show. Well, and I think that also owes a lot to those again, those 70s and 80s comedies, which I mean, if all you see is one particular kind of thing and you don't experience it yourself, you're going to assume that's what it's like, which is not the right way to do that stuff. So thank you for for shedding some light on that for us, because again, I I went to a school without any Greek
00:55:32
Speaker
whatsoever, like I went to a tiny Christian liberal arts school about an hour and a half south of where I am right now. So. So, yeah, there was there was no Greek society on my campus at all. So I still. Yeah, no context. Still watch Greek, though, you guys. It's a really good show like it's. I don't know why I like it, but I do it. Nothing about it interests me, but it's just so good. I probably watched it four or five times in total.
00:56:02
Speaker
It's just really compelling teenage drama. I didn't know that that was a thing that could happen, but hey, there it is. Right on. Right on. What what other what other talk? I mean, I feel like did we. Did we finish the thought on.
00:56:24
Speaker
Now we're doing that thing where we're trying to figure out how we got on this in this particular tangent. How did we get here? How did we get here? Because I feel like we were talking about something and we may have kind of like veered off in talking about the sorority aspect of it. Oh, no, we're talking about the the the unification of the women across sisterhood. Yeah, sisterhood across sororities. Yeah. Yeah. Did we have more to say on that topic? We want to move on to another one. What else we got? I know. I mean, I'm
00:56:52
Speaker
I'm good. I like it. A-plus turns across the board for me on that front. Right on. Right on. What do we think? Because this is, I think, one of the aspects of the film. The first time I saw it, I was kind of like,
00:57:09
Speaker
Know that I like this, the supernatural element that exists only in this version of the story, like it's not in any previous Black Christmases, it is unique to this one. What do we think about it? How do we feel like it's utilized? Your thoughts, panel. I think that, oh, sorry, you go ahead. I'll just throw this out as a thought for your guys' reactions.
00:57:44
Speaker
I'm trying to figure out how to put these two pieces together. I feel like going the supernatural realm makes this almost a film that does have, I think, something that's more realistically based in that
00:58:11
Speaker
you know, guess slashers, serial killers, et cetera, exist. A threat, but a threat to women is toxic masculinity and these institutions that pop that up, that support it and that feed it. And so I, the,
00:58:42
Speaker
I struggle with, like, yeah, the supernatural thing is kind of a weird departure from the other two, but I think it's kind of an interesting move, considering when the film came out, what it's commenting on, because I think by using that, it's actually saying no, the threat is, I think, a little bit more, I think, enveloping.
00:59:10
Speaker
of a society and then alone, stalker, killer, et cetera.
00:59:17
Speaker
Well, that's something I did enjoy was the fact that it wasn't just one dude like it was in the other ones, because it kind of hearkens back to the original where you didn't really know much about the killer. You know nothing about the killer in the original. Even at the end, they're just like, oh, you wanted to know something? Fuck you. It's over. Bye. You know, but in this one, I like the fact that they did that. But instead of making it ambiguous, they just made it every dude.
00:59:47
Speaker
Like every dude, but my problem with it is is that they could have said the same thing. They could have done the same thing with just a cult, like a skull and bone sort of organization or something. They didn't have to go the supernatural route, which, like I said at the beginning of this podcast, just it kind of negates the whole point of the film for me.
01:00:06
Speaker
is like if they had grounded a bit more and like I said, made it like some kind of secret society or even a cult, like without any of the supernatural stuff, I think for me it would have worked a lot better. Do you think they added the supernatural element as a means of kind of trying to play up some more of the horror aspects of it? Because this is kind of a,
01:00:32
Speaker
It feels more like a, in some aspects, feels more like a drama than a slasher in some aspects. I'm not going to say it. In the first two acts, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, but obviously you have like the group, the slasher, you've got, you know, the, the mask to killer aspect of it, which is very slasher, very horror, but.
01:00:52
Speaker
Like, I don't know, maybe maybe that's another way of kind of amplifying some of those horror elements a little. And that's just a stray thought that entered my head. I'm not married to that at all. Just, you know, something that that kind of was rattling around in here and needed to get out, I guess. No, that's it.
01:01:12
Speaker
Uh, I think that makes sense. I mean, we also have to understand, I think, and you, you guys may have more specific information on this. Um, but the turnaround from writing and getting this movie in theaters was very short. Uh, I think that both Sophie and co-writer April were brought on, I want to say like in February.
01:01:42
Speaker
And they have like two months. Holy crap. Um, to like get the script and then they had to be like on location, ready to prep and go. So, um, I, I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, again, them wanting to really harken in on more of the drama of it and then saying, Oh,
01:02:09
Speaker
We were for, we were hired to write a horror movie. So what do we do now? How do we, how do we amp this, this up a little bit to, to give some. Thrills and chills. So I, I can definitely see that, um, as well. And, um, it is rated PG 13. Um, so I think there's also some.
01:02:37
Speaker
And I, I am an apologist for PG 13 weren't, I think it can be amazing. All of us. Yeah. Like well executed, brilliant stuff. Um, rating doesn't matter. A good film is a good film. Correct. Um, but yeah, I think that then they further put themselves into a box of, you want it?
01:03:04
Speaker
a PG-13 film, which I think was something that they both Sophie and I think April had talked about because they wanted this to be seen by young women. And then being like, okay, so we're, this is kind of the overall thing that we're wanting to do. We're going for this rating now.
01:03:31
Speaker
How do we make this horror? How do we make this a black Christmas film? And so I do think that that is, I think that's a really salient point of maybe some of that was like, let's, let's boob up the creep factor a little bit with this and see how far that will take us. Yeah.
01:03:56
Speaker
And you're right, very short production on this, I think five months start to finish from like pre-production to post-production. Very quick turnaround on this. There were times when they were ad libbing lines because the script wasn't done.
01:04:13
Speaker
Um, and, and maybe that's part of the issue is they didn't have a lot of time to really fine tune and finesse the script. So what we're seeing is maybe only a first or a second drafts. And again, I don't want to, because again, I think the things that are being said are very important, but you know, again, there's, we've said kind of a lack of subtlety, a lack of nuance kind of running throughout that, um, could be just because they didn't have enough time to really sit and work on the script. No. And.
01:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, that, that really is, I think hitting a nail on the head there when you are dealing with really complex issues that do deserve a lot of finesse to them in the story. You've got to give yourself that time and that grace to really, to really work it. And yeah, if you are going off of draft.
01:05:07
Speaker
one, two, even three, where you're not really able to like skim and say, okay, how is this hitting? How do we want to incorporate this here? What is this doing? I think that you are in kind of a bad spot there. And again, one of the reasons why some of the criticism that you hear about the film with it not hitting as hard on certain elements or
01:05:36
Speaker
going as far as it can in certain places or maybe missing a mark, I totally get. Because if you are on a timer, you've got to go fast. And there's going to be stuff that's kind of left to the wayside, unfortunately.
01:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, well, this is all news to me. So I'm glad you guys brought this up because I think it just added a half a star to my rating knowing how little time they had to do this. Honestly, I'd like to rewatch that with rewatch this movie with that context because I think I'd be like, yeah, I let that slide because wow, they really did not have any time to make this movie.
01:06:18
Speaker
Right. I mean, so we should mention the Blumhouse of it all. I. Yeah, Nicole shaking her head. I. Yep. So Jason Blum just said something very stupid in a very public forum and ate all kinds of crow for it. Basically, I want to know. Oh, you don't know. Oh, God, I don't know.
01:06:44
Speaker
He basically he was asked about why he didn't have any women directing any of his films that he produced for Blumhouse. And he said, here we go. I'm going to I'm not going to quote it verbatim. I'm going to give you the gist. Basically, there aren't a lot of women directors and the ones that are out there don't like horror.
01:07:08
Speaker
Well, that's just false. Which is the dumbest thing a human being has ever said. I'm checking my notes here, and it is accurate. That is, in fact, the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. Top five. Top five dumbest things anyone's ever said in public. To a mass audience. Just showing his ass. Wow. It's such a desperate, desperate, asshole way to try to defend yourself again. And so willfully ignorant, too.
01:07:37
Speaker
Yes, like, so you want to put yourself on the map as like, a horror house. And you're sitting there saying that there's not female directors in the genre. Like, Oh, like, Oh, let me show you what our box list or five.
01:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, right. Just show the man some receipts. And he got like properly and righteously lambasted online for it to the to the extent that the next day he basically had to make a he was forced to make a public apology like, wow, really sorry. I'm going to do better. And to his credit, he has there have been this. So if you had to call is the first female director of a Blumhouse film, but she has not been the last.
01:08:27
Speaker
There have been several Blumhouse features directed by women since then. I like it. I like it when people learn from their mistakes. That's always the best possible outcome, particularly when they make them so publicly. Yes. But so this this film, he has the meeting with Sophia to call. He offers her a few different films. And this is the one that she takes because, again, she wants to make she she liked the themes of and I think we talked about this a little bit over the last couple of episodes, just the idea that you
01:08:57
Speaker
Women don't know who is and is not a creep at first glance. You take this idea of these vulnerable women and you literally introduce a killer into the house.
01:09:12
Speaker
and how that has influenced the slasher genre as a whole, like to take those ideas, those concepts in what is a surprisingly feminist movie for the mid-70s and modernize them and update them. And I think in that, she is very successful, that she takes, again, those themes that the first film explored, even if it is accidental, that it explored.
01:09:37
Speaker
kind of updates them and modernize them. But unfortunately, but because because Jason needed a Christmas release, there wasn't a lot of time to put it out. So that makes me think of another scene that I thought was what's very effective.
01:09:54
Speaker
in showing how difficult issues like this can be to navigate is at the very beginning of the film, that first gal that gets killed and she's walking along and that one dude is just walking as well. And she is terrified of this dude and this dude, he's just on his phone. He's not a part of anything. He takes a turn when he takes a turn. He's just a dude.
01:10:17
Speaker
And I love how that scene showed how terrified she was of him. But also. It I don't know, it speaks to the fact that even when there's no danger present, that it feels like women have to be afraid in those situations. And I thought I thought that that was a really a really it was a standout scene, just like the other one I mentioned where they were talking about the video online, that one's
01:10:48
Speaker
way more chaotic, but this one was very subtle in the way that it did that. I thought it was really well done. I liked the way they said what they were saying. I thought that was really cool. Yeah. And of course, that scene reminds me of the, I think it's a John Mulaney bit about
01:11:06
Speaker
uh, him thinking that a woman wanted to race him to the subway when in fact she was just like, so like she walks a little faster. I was like, Oh, she's trying to beat me, huh? So he walks a little faster and yeah. And I'm just like, man. And then it wasn't until like she got in like Pat, it wasn't until like halfway to the subway. He's like, Oh, Oh, she's scared of me. I should stop and, and did, but I was just like, yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, again, unfortunately there are, you know, whether it's this opening scene, I have yet to meet someone that hasn't, you know, a female who hasn't encountered a situation like that where it's late at night and we're walking to a car, we're walking to the train, we're
01:12:03
Speaker
doing something, and there's someone that seems to maybe be a little bit too close behind us, kind of keeping up with us a little bit too quickly. And I think that this phone, if you're able to remove some of those, I think, aspects that we talked about that maybe it doesn't land, I think
01:12:33
Speaker
This is really important. And then when you loop in and you find out, well, the threat isn't all men, it's society and how society has boosted patriarchy and more of these harmful components of misogyny. And we get that even with the character of Helena going hard, more trad, wife, um,
01:13:00
Speaker
And then she gets the 7000 bones in her neck broken because of it. Right. How many bones does she have in her neck? Like that's like the most complicated longest like I counted about 30 bones being cracked there. Just the sound. It's it's a very like one quick. It's pretty hilarious.
01:13:24
Speaker
But what you were saying about that, about society, it's kind of, it likens itself to like the people say all cops are bastards. And when they say that, they're not saying each individual person that is a police officer is a bad person. They're saying that the system is so fucking corrupt that you can't be a good cop. And that's kind of, I feel like that's the scene I was talking about where the guy is walking behind her.
01:13:52
Speaker
Like that guy's not doing anything, but because of the way society is, she's right to be afraid of him. Like she's right to take those precautions. And I think that's why that scene in particular was so powerful for me. You phrased it so perfectly. It's when we make these statements about, you know, all men, we're not saying each individual male. We're saying that patriarchy, we're saying that
01:14:23
Speaker
the systematic and institutional components that I think foster patriarchy and misogyny and all of these things are bad. Rape culture is a component to this. And when we are able to start to, I think, really piece apart those pieces and say, okay, well then how do we fix a system so that there can be
01:14:52
Speaker
people who want to go and do good things, protect society as police officers, and not be within a system that is really, really bad, and does a lot of harm to especially marginalized communities.
01:15:12
Speaker
You guys, that's what I love about this podcast is I will be so, I will hate a movie so much. And then we'll talk about it for an hour and a half and I'll end up kind of liking it without even having to watch it ever again. Because now that we've had this discussion, I'm thinking how cool is it that the only good guy in the movie still gets brainwashed at the end? Yeah.
01:15:36
Speaker
And before we started recording, you were kind of against that. Oh, I was mad. I was mad about this whole movie. But the more we talk about it, the more I'm like, yeah, maybe I don't need to see this again. But maybe I also don't need to be so hard on it. And again, it helps to consider perspective. Again, maybe this isn't for us. It helps to consider perspective is not our own, which is why
01:16:03
Speaker
It's important for everyone to have these conversations and to open themselves up to having these conversations, which unfortunately, based on the reviews for this film, not a lot of people were really willing to do. Yo, it's it's very polarizing. I looked on Letterbox and it's either one stars or like five stars. People either really fucking dig this or they really hate it. There's like no in between. Yeah. And especially having seen it in theaters and
01:16:31
Speaker
enjoying it and really just kind of sitting in and thinking about it. It was not a space where you felt comfortable coming out in support of the movie because you would get these really kind hearted, gentle folks slipping into your DMs, your replies and say, no, you're wrong.
01:16:59
Speaker
feminism is wrong. This movie is too woke. Um, and, and all sorts of things. And, and this was at a time where I think, yeah, people were being really toxic, but, uh, now I like it's a complete hellscape. Um, so I, I, yeah, I, this is a film that I, I do think that hopefully more people will, will, you know, give some
01:17:29
Speaker
some more chance to, you're right. It's not going to hit for everyone. It's obviously got an intended audience, but I think if you remove, I think that, you know, we talk a lot about kind of the brainwashing and I think, unfortunately, I don't want to say that people succumbed to kind of the group think of this movie as bad and it's just bad, but I do think that was part of it.
01:17:58
Speaker
as well as people just really from the get-go, the loudest voices were saying how awful this was. And then there were some of us saying, well, yeah, it's not the best, but is it that bad? Really? So that makes me so happy to hear because I like more folks that can say, all right, well, maybe
01:18:28
Speaker
Maybe there's another viewpoint to this or, Hey, I still don't like it, but I totally understand now why some people would like, that's the best.
01:18:38
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, I personally always want to try to be that person. I don't want to be the guy, you know, throwing water on the wrong fires and gasoline on the on the wrong fires. You know, I want to I want to try to I'm careful to try not to say certain movies are bad so much as to say certain movies are just not for me, because every every movie is somebody's favorite movie.
01:19:03
Speaker
Even if it's not mine, so even movies that I may not have a lot of good things to say about I will still Try to find something in them that I like and I've made that mistake on this podcast before so and I will probably make it again Let's be honest. I'm human
01:19:18
Speaker
Steven, consider this, Food Fight is someone's favorite movie. That is so hard for me to consider. See if you can swallow that one, Steven. Can you swallow that one? I kind of have to, and I know exactly whose favorite movie it is, The Guy That Made It. It is his favorite movie. I am sure. You still haven't seen Food Fight, have you?
01:19:43
Speaker
No, man. Brett and I are going to have to force you to watch that someday, man. This comes from a place of zero context. I love it. I love it. Nicole, you haven't seen Food Fight, have you? No, but now I feel like. Do I do I dare? I don't even Stephen and Brett say it's the best film or the best, the worst film they've ever seen. It is it is very bad. It is a very, very bad film. And I've seen some bad movies, which is why I'm like, is it?
01:20:12
Speaker
It's poorly made, it's poorly executed, it's got the most craven ideas behind it. It's basically a movie, it's an animated children's film about supermarket mascots. It was never finished. There was a finished copy, but the hard drive got deleted and so they had to throw the thing together. Allegedly.
01:20:38
Speaker
I mean, it got Toy Story 2'd, basically, was what happened, but they didn't have that one person with the backup. Some people will say that that was an excuse for embezzlement, but... Which it may very well have been. You can see, like, the footage in the trailer for the movie is better than the actual footage in the movie.
01:20:58
Speaker
Um, it's, it's a whole thing. Um, we, we do get into it on that episode. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, I don't know. I would not recommend it, but if you have a morbid curiosity for these things, go for it. Like I said, I'm not going to recommend it to Tucker at some point. I'm just going to force him to watch it. Cause we had to. Yeah, I probably owe you one. So wild. Um, no, I'm, I'm interested in.
01:21:29
Speaker
talking about this film with you both. I know that we mentioned the performances earlier. Are there any particular performances that stand out to you in this film that you're like, I really see them trying something kind of cool here.
01:21:55
Speaker
I mean, I'm a big fan of Imogen Poots. I just think she can do no wrong. She's phenomenal. I love her as Riley. I think she is doing just incredible. And Ali Shannon, too. I love her. Like, I think she is. I mean, you know, whatever issues anyone of us might have with the character, she's absolutely killing it. Like, she's doing such a great job. And to have those two as kind of the leads, as it were,
01:22:24
Speaker
is, I think, really good. And I think they work really well together and off of one another. I don't really have anybody that stood out. I don't think anybody stood out as bad. With the exception of the main frat guy, I thought his performance was a little over the top.
01:22:46
Speaker
but I think maybe the script sort of called for that so I don't know if that was really a hymn thing or if that's just a problem I have with the screenplay and the way that his character was written but he seems like almost over the top and like villainistic if that's a word.
01:23:09
Speaker
Um, where terrible person doing terrible things deserves to be hated, but I just thought the performance was a bit, a bit much. It was more than it needed to be, I think. But I think other than that, I think everybody did fine. I don't, nothing stands out as bad, but also nothing really stands out as like phenomenal or groundbreaking or anything. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I.
01:23:39
Speaker
I'm a big Imagine Poots fan as well. And I think that in a film that does make a lot of broad strokes, she does actually give some real quiet moments where you can see some different things happening within kind of her internal landscape, which I,
01:24:09
Speaker
imagine is a little bit more complex to do when, again, you have a script that's really speaking to broad strokes. So I like that, especially the scene where she goes to the campus police security and is talking about how, you know, Helena is missing, didn't arrive. And
01:24:38
Speaker
You see like these really tiny moments of her breakdown of like, I'm going through this again. I'm talking about something with someone who's supposed to help and no one is helping.
01:24:49
Speaker
No one's believing me. That's what I thought was really interesting about that scene because it reminded me a lot of the scene I keep bringing up where they're talking about the video in the kitchen and it turns into a shit show. Whereas in Barbarian, the cop clearly is just like,
01:25:09
Speaker
this bitch is crazy. In this, both people seem kind of rational. You understand that she's worried and you understand why, but also the information and the evidence that she has, what's he supposed to do? What kind of information is that to go on? And I love the juxtaposition of that to where it's like, you know she's right, but you also know that she's not telling him anything that he can act on. I thought that was really clever.
01:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this I am also gaining a greater appreciation for this film as we discuss it for sure. Like it's podcast successful.
01:25:51
Speaker
Like it's definitely again, I'm starting to appreciate more about it that I think I think the main issue just boils down to the script because I like I'm realizing as we discuss it, I like just about everything else surrounding. It's just, you know, it just the script seems a little rushed, sloppy. It's just not tight. It's just not tight enough. Yeah. There's a lot of great things happening in it, but it's just they didn't have enough time to really tighten it up.
01:26:20
Speaker
Well, and I feel like there's a lot of little things that are brought up or somehow like intentionally in the fold that never go anywhere. Um, because you also are dealing with like issues of class and, um, like a number of different things, but they're never really explored, um, because this has a very, I think specific like,
01:26:50
Speaker
Here's where we're going. This is our focus. This is what we're talking about. This is what we're doing. So stay with us and do not fear. Anywhere off the hands and arms inside the card for the duration of the ride. Yeah, exactly. And, and I feel like that, uh, to me, I think that's kind of a detriment. I know lots of people have issues with Chris, especially in the beginning, um, where Riley, she is part of the performance.
01:27:20
Speaker
at the talent show, but she doesn't want to be. It's clearly triggering for her to do this. Yeah, it is. And she doesn't want to be like she. There's this whole discussion around should victims of sexual assault like as a victim, where where is the onus? Is there onus? Should there be any onus on you to
01:27:49
Speaker
being someone that is speaking to your experience and sharing that in any way because that can be very painful, difficult, and upsetting. I think the film doesn't handle that as, I think, definitely as it should because at the end of the day, Chris is right.
01:28:14
Speaker
Um, that's her assertion. And that's what the film I think is kind of coming down on. Yeah. Cause Riley Turner says you're, I, you know, you're right. I should have been fighting the whole time. I know this is not the time for, I told you so, but I did tell you so. Like that's exactly, that's the exact exchange. And it's like, yeah, no, um, that, that, that shouldn't be a takeaway. Um, I volunteered with the DC rape crisis center.
01:28:43
Speaker
doing like their hotline and also doing some educational stuff as someone that's experienced sexual assault. Like you cannot you you can't put that on someone. People have to be able to speak when they want to how they want to. That's their story. That's their thing to share. Right. And to put them in cheat is
01:29:12
Speaker
And really, Chris is constantly putting Riley in those situations of, you know, putting her down because she's not fighting. She's not an activist. She's not doing the things that Chris thinks that she should. And we understand that maybe this is coming from a place from Chris of wanting to do good, make an impact.
01:29:40
Speaker
you know, failing to see kind of the forest through the trees, I guess. Yeah. Understanding how that can be much more harmful. And I don't know that I would say if there's one thing about the film that I just have a hard time jelling with, it's
01:30:01
Speaker
It's staff component and, and trying to make sense of like, I kinda like Chris, I know you want to be a good friend. I know you want to be encouraging and you want to build your, your friend up, but this is not the way to necessarily do it.
01:30:21
Speaker
I think that's her, the characterization of that character through the whole film is she's someone who has a lot of rage and justifiably so, but I don't think she considers how she's directing that rage. It's righteous anger, but I think she's also working on, it seems like she's trying to
01:30:47
Speaker
contextualize Riley's experience based on her own will this is you're not doing what I would do in this situation. Therefore, you're not handling it correctly, which is reductive and honestly, yeah, not not a great look. Because everybody is different because no two people are exactly alike in any context.
01:31:08
Speaker
That's Riley's trauma to deal with her own way. And no one else can speak to that experience for her, and nor should they. So yeah, I feel like, yeah, I agree. But the frustrating thing to me is that that realization of Riley's at the end there, the oh, I should have been fighting the whole time,
01:31:32
Speaker
That's basically the only character development we get in this movie. For the most part, these are all very static characters. There's not much growth over the course of the film for anyone but Riley, really, which is not necessarily a bad thing. So it's unfortunately pretty realistic as well. Right. Yeah.
01:31:55
Speaker
I love that you said that because there, there are times to where like, how many movies have you watched where someone takes, you know, this emotional arc and you're like, this is the most predictable and ridiculous saying I could have sit here and like at minute 42, they're going to have this realization. They're going to make some comment about how they need it. Oh, you know.
01:32:21
Speaker
It wasn't the journey, it was the friends that we made along the way. So I like the idea, like I always bristle like there needs to be like some big character thing, especially for someone like Riley that has experienced something really, really challenging. And her sexual assault happened, I think three years prior to this, but she's now face to face with
01:32:51
Speaker
her attacker and this person never, uh, got justice, um, and has, you know, gone on to lead successful lives and, and how painful I think in a way that also is because even when you don't want to speak about something, knowing that the person who caused you so much hurt and pain,
01:33:21
Speaker
is out there and potentially doing it to other people, but also is just like, I'm bothered.
Empathy and Activism in Film
01:33:30
Speaker
It's like, I'm that disposable of a person that hurting me meant nothing to them. So I just, there's so much to, I think Riley's experience in her trauma that to what you were saying earlier,
01:33:51
Speaker
you know, for Chris, she's just not understanding like, okay, maybe this is how you would have reacted in a situation. And this is how you would have channeled what you've gone through in your experience. And, but a, you can never say that until you're in that position. Correct. Um, because trust me, how many times do we think, Oh, this would, if I was in a horror movie and I was in this situation, I would do no.
01:34:21
Speaker
you're probably going to be scared out of your mind and you're not going to make the most logical, sensible choice in that moment. And I think, I don't know, like I like Chris because I like the passion that she brings. And I do think that there's so much care to her in that she loves her sisters and she wants to build
01:34:46
Speaker
these really strong relationships and she wants her sisters to feel supported and empowered. But she's just kind of like cutting them off a bit at the knees as well by saying this is how you need to do it.
01:35:04
Speaker
Yeah, and not every every way works for every person. Your way is not necessarily the best way just because it works for you. As someone coming from education, that's a lesson that a lot of educators sometimes have to learn the hard way I did. You know, the way that I teach is not going to be conducive to every student. And so I have to I have to meet them where they are rather than forcing them up to my level.
01:35:27
Speaker
And that comes in the same way when dealing with these traumatic events, just because this is what you would do doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. And that's, yeah, again, that's unfortunately very, very realistic in that regard, so. Yeah, but I think also it just becomes a really tangled thing because in a film that's wanting to make, I think, commentary about
01:35:57
Speaker
the more institutional components of these aspects of harm. It's like, well, you do need people who are able to be a strong voice and really push because that's how change does happen. It is Chris and her activism that gets the bust moved from the administration office.
01:36:28
Speaker
We could say that that's actually the most villainous move of the film because that we then realize that it was a fucking water fountain for toxic masculinity goo. Yeah. Yeah, it's. It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, for sure.
01:36:58
Speaker
All right, final thoughts. I know we're kind of up against the clock here, so final thoughts before we move into the box office on this one.
01:37:09
Speaker
I think I said all that I had to say for now, unless somebody makes it until somebody brings up something that makes me think about it in a different way. And then I'm like, oh, wait, I have a whole new perspective on that. Now I have opinions. Because that happens. That happens to me. It does a lot frequently, which I like. I like being that way because.
01:37:34
Speaker
I like learning. It's so boring just to stick to your guns, whether they're good guns or bad guns. I think it's better to listen to people and try to see things from their perspective. And it's okay to change an opinion. It's okay to change your mind. Some people just get so stuck on that, like, I can't be wrong. I can't change my opinion. I can't be fallible. But well, yeah, you kind of have to be.
01:38:00
Speaker
Or are you even a human being if you're not? That's my final thought on this film. Right on. Nicole, final thought. I like this. And it's a film that surprisingly continues to work for me.
01:38:19
Speaker
Not perfect, but I think we talked about, I think, both some production things that really did a disservice, I think, to really making this a much more cohesive piece and maybe working out some of those wrinkles with talking about some of these really dark things. But yeah, I like it. I think it's good.
Film Industry Insights and Ratings
01:38:49
Speaker
right on Black Christmas 2019 comes out on December 13th, which was a Friday, so Friday the 13th, 2019. It opens at number five, earns $4.2 million in its opening weekend on its way to a total gross, domestic gross of 10.4
01:39:17
Speaker
million combine that with another 8.1 international. So we've got a total worldwide box office of 18.5. Not a huge multiplier. The the the advertised production budget was 5 million with advertising and everything else probably maybe a little closer to 10. So maybe just made its money back domestically.
01:39:44
Speaker
Um, but not remember any marketing for this movie. I didn't even know that there was another remake until pretty recently. Well, the thing about the trailer is it pretty much gives the entire plot of the movie away. Oh, sweet. I'm glad I didn't watch it then. Yeah, the entire movie is right there in the trailer. So if you've seen the trailer, you've seen the movie tragically. Um, I and in fact, I watched it after watching the movie today because I was like, I really need this. And yeah, it it every like.
01:40:12
Speaker
to the point where you see Kariel was in the robes in the come on like it's all not that it's not not that it's not obvious from the first scene but still come on give us a little mystery right right so I mean yeah it just this film opens like I said at number five number one also opening this week to a much more impressive fifty nine point three million dollars is Jumanji the next level what if we took Jumanji to the next level
01:40:43
Speaker
And then second place, we've got Frozen 2, which in its four weeks of release has earned over $360 million. Knives Out in third place, one of my favorite films of 2019. Love that movie. That's been out for three weeks. Richard Jewell also opening this week at number four. That gets a 4.7 million. I've never even heard of that, man. What is that?
01:41:08
Speaker
That's the Clint Eastwood. Yeah. About the individuals that was connected to the bombing in Atlanta. The Olympic, the Olympic bombing. And how they railroaded him. I've heard it's great. It's got my boy Paul Walterhauser in it, so it came to that. The lead performance is outstanding. I have
01:41:33
Speaker
very complicated feelings about Clint Eastwood. See, that's where I'm coming from because, like, the man is a very talented actor and director, just artist all around. But boy, does he have some shit takes on some stuff. And sometimes it really bleeds into his movies. Yeah. Stuff like Gran Turino and The Mule. It's just like, ah, Clint. Ooh, it's the opposite of this movie. It's saying something shitty, but it's really well made.
01:42:04
Speaker
Yeah, only we could find a room with empty chairs. Right. Oh, you'd have him you'd have him busy for months, man. You wouldn't be able to get out of that room. I mean, really, that's why he never got into podcasting. It was completely unlistenable.
01:42:22
Speaker
You're just sitting there talking to an empty chair for an hour at a time. Who does that? Come on, Clint. And then, of course, this film opening at number five, rounding out the rest of the top 10, you've got Ford V Ferrari at six, Queen and Slim at seven, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood eight, Dark Waters nine and 21 Bridges 10. Was A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood? Was that the movie where Tom Hanks was Mr. Rogers?
01:42:48
Speaker
I think that's correct. I like that. I mean, I did not. I did not. I always get it. I always get it confused with the I think it's won't you be my neighbor, which is like the document, the documentary, right? Which, yeah, it came out right around the same time, if I recall, which it adds to the God damn confusion. It's like, am I going to see Mr. Rogers or am I going to see Tom Hanks? Right.
01:43:17
Speaker
when I pull this up, what adventure awaits? No, they're both very good though.
01:43:24
Speaker
Tom Hanks kind of went on a little run there playing people we loved as kids. He was Walt Disney in that. Saving Mr. Banks. Saving Mr. Banks. He was Mr. Rogers. Which, though, completely false and misrepresentative of not only everything that happened, but the people involved is still a wonderful film. I really like that movie. It's really good and wholesome and sweet. You also really love Mary Poppins, though. I do. I do. That's true. You have Mary Poppins tattooed on your body. That's true. That is true.
01:43:55
Speaker
The Tomatometer score on this one is a 40%. The critics consensus better than the 2006 remake yet not as sharp as the original. This Black Christmas stabs at timely feminist feminist themes but mostly hits on familiar pulp.
01:44:14
Speaker
Sometimes I'm with the critics. This time I'm a little, hmm, on with that one. Black Christmas, the meta score is a 49 based on mixed or average reviews from 25 critics, and the letterbox score is a 1.9. Oh, stop. Right? That's the current letterbox average as I'm looking at it.
01:44:39
Speaker
Nicole, out of five stars, how would you rate 2019's Black Christmas? I'm going to be generous. And I'm going to give it I'm going to hover somewhere between a three point five and a four. I really like the the swings that this film makes. And I think that to me,
01:45:08
Speaker
makes up for, for some of the misses. Um, because I, given the turnaround kind of, they had to make this, there is really clear vision with it. There's no, I think misreading what some of the messaging is and was intended to be. So I'm going to go with a 3.5 to a four.
01:45:38
Speaker
Right on. Tucker, what about yourself? Now, it's important to note that at the beginning of this podcast, my rating was a 2.
01:45:51
Speaker
But there's always something to be said for a film that you can have a really good conversation about, good or bad. And not just because of the different perspectives of this conversation, but because of the context of like you said, it was a movie that had a lot to do in a very little bit of time. This is gonna be a 2.75 for me.
01:46:18
Speaker
Okay, fair enough. I initially had this one at a 2.5. And based on this conversation, I'm bumping that to a three. So that does give us, oh, let's say our average on this one is about a three. Got an average of about a 3.2 is our average on this one. So yeah.
01:46:43
Speaker
So that's how the disenfranchised litter box is gonna rate it there.
Nicole Goble's Contributions and Promotion
01:46:49
Speaker
Nicole Goble, it has been a long time coming having you on, and we will absolutely have to have you back. This has been an incredible delight. Thank you so much for doing this. Tell us where we can find you. Tell us about Bodies of Horror, which if you're not listening, you should be listening to Bodies of Horror. Tell us what you got going on. Plug, plug, plug.
01:47:13
Speaker
Oh, always the best time of any podcast. Right. Um, yes. Uh, so bodies of four, uh, is a podcast where, uh, we look at films through a lens of disability. So, uh, you know, always, you know, any kind of four film is up for discussion. And, you know, when we talk about disability, it's really such a broad, um, I think thing as well. So we've hit on.
01:47:41
Speaker
lots of different components of disability, mental health, because that's part and parcel of that as well. Absolutely. Um, so yeah, biweekly over on the anatomy of a scream, uh, network. So, uh, yeah, give it a listen. If, if you are, I'm so inclined, um, I'm so thrilled to be here. You're right. This has been such a long, such a long time coming and, uh, know that you guys are
01:48:11
Speaker
The door is wide open for you guys. Any time that there's something that you're like, oh, this film talks about disability, or maybe there's a connection here. And if you guys want to come over to Bodies of Four, the seats are ready for you. 100 cents. Excellent. What can we find you on social media? So you can find me on Twitter, X, Twix, Twitter.
01:48:37
Speaker
Uh, yip, yip, uh, bodies horror. Um, I'm on Instagram, uh, which I've been having a lot of fun with actually. Um, and you can find me over there and I have to make sure, uh, it's bodies of horror podcast on Instagram and then, uh, bodies of horror on blue sky or blue ski. Uh, so yeah, I am.
01:49:07
Speaker
I'm there out and about, so feel free to follow to find random thoughts. Absolutely. Love it. It's nice to know that you're another person who knows how to pronounce blueski. Yes. Thank you. Because Steven's over here every week. He's like blue sky. And I'm like, dude, it's all one word. It's blueski. I calls it. I calls it like I sees it. Are you familiar with the English language, Steven? It's blueski. It's got to be.
01:49:35
Speaker
You can find the disenfranchised podcast on Blue Sky, Instagram, Facebook and Letterboxd at Disinfranch Pod. Shoot us an email, disinfranchpod at gmail.com. Head up our Patreon, patreon.com slash disinfranchpod, or for just five bucks a month, you get access to literal days of content.
01:50:02
Speaker
like secondary shows, including our weekly What Are We Watching show, which the episode that just dropped as of this recording features our good friend, Ariel Powers Schab, and we're all talking about what we watched is a good time, a good time was had by all.
01:50:19
Speaker
And yeah, so head on head us up over there patreon.com slash disenfranch pod. Also, if you're on the internet, swing on over to Spotify, Apple podcast, give us a five star rating and review that goes a long way to helping in fact, if you have a podcast,
01:50:35
Speaker
and you like us and you haven't given us one of those, do it. Because you know how important those are to helping people find their audience. I actually went on a tear not too long ago and just tried to find as many of my friends as podcasts and give them the ratings and reviews. Because if I realized I hadn't, I was like, oh, fix this. And I don't think Mike knew that mine was mine and absolutely like popped mine up across all the social media. I was like, oh, that was me.
01:51:01
Speaker
I was like, I don't think he knew that was mine, but yeah, there's me. But yeah, please, please, please do that. That'll help us find a lot more listeners. I am your host, Steven Foxworthy. You can find me on Instagram, Letterboxd and Blue Sky at Chewy Walrus. Chewy Walrus Tucker, where can we find you?
01:51:22
Speaker
Uh, you can find me on the Instagrams and on YouTube at ice 909. That's I C E N I N E the number zero and the number nine. Uh, you can also find me on Instagram. I have a page called tuck mugs. That's tuck underscore mugs. Uh, it's page about mugs and where they came from and what's in them and pictures of them. And our long silence was finally broken last week. Out time.
01:51:52
Speaker
my tulips are up you guys I've been teasing the tulips I've been teasing the tulips but my hand-painted tulip mug is up this week and hopefully that will sustain people because are these are these mugs that you make
Community Engagement and Wrap-up
01:52:11
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no. If I were that talented, how awesome would that be? But no, these are, I'm someone who is by nature a collector, but someone who is against the mentality of collecting. So I've decided to focus all that energy towards something that is useful.
01:52:32
Speaker
coffee mugs. I use them all the time. So I can collect those and use them. They're practical. So now I have an outlet to show those off on Instagram called tuckmugs again at tuck underscore mugs. And we just we post a picture of the mug.
01:52:49
Speaker
I write a little blurb about where I got the mug, the origin of the mug, what it means to me. Sometimes there's a big story, a big fun story with it. And sometimes it's just, you know, I I got this at a thrift store and it's really cool. And then I put what is in the mug, which is usually coffee, but it's going to be soup soon. It's winter. And I feel soup and a mug coming on, maybe even breakfast cereal and a mug, too. So who knows? Also.
01:53:16
Speaker
something we pad out the weeks with in between posts are we have guest mugs where anybody that is a fan of the podcast or is podcast adjacent or anybody, any Joe off the street that likes the page can email us
01:53:33
Speaker
at disenfranchipod at gmail.com. Follow the format, send us a picture, and give us where the mug is from, what it means to you, and what's in it. And we'll post it up there. We'll tag you in it. Like, guest mugs are kind of the backbone.
01:53:51
Speaker
of tuck mugs, because your boy only has so many mugs. And I'm not saying that I'm towards the end of my mug collection. I'm not, I'm far away. I'm just saying I can't be posting two or three times a week and expect for this to last. I only have so much covered space. I only have so much covered space, you guys. So please, guest mugs, we need them. Anybody that can hear my voice right now, you are qualified to send in a guest mug.
01:54:22
Speaker
I may do this because I have some very, very special mugs. Those are the best kind. And to know that there's a place for them. There's a place on the Internet for that, yeah.
01:54:38
Speaker
Yeah. In a place that I feel was designed for Muggs Instagram. That's all that should be on there. It's just dude. Yeah. Yeah. Cats and Muggs. That was my idea behind this Instagram account is that I was sick of just scrolling through like
01:55:00
Speaker
dumb shit from my friends that I'm sure it's important to them, but I really don't care. And just ads and TikTok videos. And it's just stupid and boring. And who cares? And some of it's very enraging. They call it doom scrolling for a reason. But then maybe I could have my own little corner of the internet where we just look at mugs and talk about how cool they are. That's fun, right? Everybody likes that, right? I don't see how you couldn't.
01:55:30
Speaker
Right. That is our episode on 2019's Black Christmas, and that concludes our Blackest Christmas mini series that we've been running for the last few weeks. And this episode is going to be dropping just a scant four days before the Christmas holiday. We do from all of us here at the disenfranchised podcast wish you a very happy holiday. Whatever you celebrate, however you celebrate, we hope you do have, will have, have had
01:55:58
Speaker
a great one. So from all of us to all of you, I am your host, Steven Foxworthy, from my co-host Tucker the absent Brett Wright, and our very special guest Nicole Goble, wishing you and yours a very happy holiday season and the blackest Christmas possible.
01:56:36
Speaker
you