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Trans Lives: Not New, Not a Trend, Not Going Anywhere
17 Plays1 month ago
What happens when the simple act of being yourself is dismissed as a “trend”?
In this episode, we explore the profound impact of visibility for trans people - how seeing your own experiences reflected in the world offers not just affirmation, but a deep sense of recognition and belonging. Yet when that reality is brushed aside as a passing fad, the harm runs deep, especially for trans youth who are still finding their way.
We look at the growing wave of trans erasure unfolding around the world - from attacks on rights to the systematic removal of scientific research and historical records - and how these acts of deliberate forgetting distort our collective understanding of trans lives, erasing a history that has always existed.
Join us for this important conversation as we push back against harmful myths and offer an important reminder: trans lives are not new, not a trend, and absolutely not going anywhere.
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Want to get in touch? Contact us at podcast@transfocus.ca
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Transcript
Introduction to Gender in Focus Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
This is Gender in Focus. I'm El and each week I sit down with the president of Trans Focus Consulting and all-round gender diversity genius, Kai Scott. I get to ask all the questions you've ever wanted to ask about how to make the workplace and the world a better place for trans and non-binary people.
00:00:20
Speaker
Let's get into it.
Are Trans and Non-Binary Identities New?
00:00:23
Speaker
In today's episode, we unpack a common misconception about trans and non-binary people in that they're a part of a trend that is something new or unexpected. We'll explore the many dimensions of gender diversity over time and reveal a profound truth underlying all of this.
00:00:42
Speaker
Being trans or non-binary is not like fast fashion, here today and gone tomorrow. Being trans and non-binary is something that's enduring.
Historical Erasure of Trans and Non-Binary People
00:00:51
Speaker
So I'm really excited to unpack all of this with my colleague El Good morning or afternoon. can't even remember what time it is. All of them, probably.
00:01:00
Speaker
are you doing? I'm doing very well. How are you? Fantastic. Yeah. Really excited. Yeah, I'm really excited about this one too, because it's sort of a topic of conversation that seems to be everywhere at the moment, that gender diversity is a new thing and that trans people are just, they just suddenly popped up and are convincing everybody else to be trans and it's just unprecedented.
00:01:21
Speaker
And so I guess I should start with something like that. Kai, have you just appeared out of nowhere one day to indoctrinate everybody? so sorry, that just came out.
00:01:33
Speaker
No, no, no. i It's good. It's been just called out. Just like, are you here? Who have you been brainwashing? ah yeah yeah oh man i mean that's i mean to some degree it is quite laughable right i mean there's a seriousness but also this is ah an appropriate response to that type of a kind of incredulous statement would you like me to start that again no i love it oh you want me to keep the bit where i'm asking you if you're indoctrinating people okay you do you
00:02:07
Speaker
Well, that's what is sometimes on people's minds is they wonder quietly. And so i think it's sometimes good to, you know, surface things to get them out in the clear, to be able to talk about them in a forthright manner and clearly too. Right.
00:02:24
Speaker
And of course, trans people did not just pop out of nowhere, myself included, and is something like, you know, just totally new, never heard of this before.
00:02:36
Speaker
Now, I will say something about history, unfortunately, especially when it comes to minorities. um you know that our history can be and is consistently erased. So it is understandable to some degree why people kind of, it does seem from the outside, something suddenly has popped up, right? adam Because we weren't talking about this you know maybe five years ago. And now it seems to be like every other day is a news item on trans people. Like, whoa, maybe we can just calm that one down a bit. But
00:03:10
Speaker
They are obsessed with you. ah Very much so. Very obsessed. When you look back in history ah or different cultures around the world, this is a very persistent, consistent thing.
00:03:23
Speaker
And it might come in different words or different practices and ways of being or whatnot. But there is a through line that connects all these different points.
00:03:34
Speaker
um Now, you know, some people may not That history or that understanding is not available to folks or take some digging to get to. But this is something that has always been there for myself, too, you know in terms of my own personal story.
00:03:50
Speaker
It's something that I heard about and you know had something inside of me that just wasn't. was i I couldn't explain that what people were telling me who I was was not resonating.
00:04:03
Speaker
um And it's only until i heard information from other trans folks that I was like, oh, this is it, right? So there's a connection there. It's not something that's kind of foisted from the outside onto people.
00:04:17
Speaker
It comes from deep within and connects to what's you know being shared. ah So that's another key thing to understand is that you know people aren't being indoctrinated. This is something that people finally have a relief around being able to explain and an internal experience that they're having and connecting it with words or words.
00:04:40
Speaker
different ways of being or be joining a community and whatnot. So I think that's key to understanding trend. It's not a trend in that sense. who From my own perspective, there's something that I can reflect on in hindsight now is ah something I was really struggling with was my gender when I was about 10, nine or 10.
00:04:59
Speaker
The idea that this is something that's just popped up and is new. When i really think about myself before I had any kind of knowledge of what non-binary was, or I'd never really heard anything about trans people where, you know, where I'm from.
00:05:12
Speaker
It's not a super diverse area. So it's not something that I had any concept of. And yet in hindsight, I can see how much I was struggling with that as a very young kid. So I think that's interesting that there is this kind of the perception that it's something that's new and just we're all being influenced by other people.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I think to some degree, people don't realize this kind of quietly either suffering or being confused in silence. And they mistake that for this suddenly being more vocal or visible about it um and not realizing the decades long that somebody has been with this. right And so that's what's not transparent to people. And um you know, we'd have to make things a lot safer for folks to feel like they could open up earlier in that process to share what's going on for them, even in the stage of where they're wondering, you know, out loud.
Media's Role in Misconceptions
00:06:07
Speaker
ah But given that that's not the case, and really things are getting even more dangerous for folks, I think we'll have even quieter period where it just seems like it doesn't exist when actually it is very much there. It's just kind of hidden out of sight um and again, driven by safety.
00:06:27
Speaker
When we think about what's going on right now, especially down in the States where we are seeing this big removal of trans people from aspects of history, such as Stonewall, or we're seeing book bans and the banning involving information regarding research involving trans experiences, ah trans identity, trans lives.
00:06:49
Speaker
How Do you think that's going to be impacting how we view trans people and and especially sort of future impacts? It's huge impact that we're kind of erasing large swaths of existence ah from public record, right?
00:07:06
Speaker
like to To the point where if if somebody was interested in knowing about this segment of the population now into the past, they wouldn't have access to that information.
00:07:17
Speaker
And to to even know about folks, and of course, this is not the first time it's happened, right? ah This has also happened in different periods and different parts of the world. Nazi Germany comes to mind where you know book burnings and even burning down you know really important research done by Herschel ah where he was starting to understand about trans as well as sexual diversity as well.
00:07:45
Speaker
And you know in a ah research way and documenting that and they were just all up in smoke. So we don't have access to those one stories, but also important understanding.
00:07:57
Speaker
um to know. And so of course you have to kind of rebuild that over time. um But then, you know, it's always seems to be like two steps forward and then one or more steps back to where the general public never has a full view of trans and non-binary folks, um except for perhaps some brave souls that continue to speak up even when it's quite dangerous, right?
00:08:20
Speaker
Yeah, and so there's large gaps. um Even for trans and non-binary folks to understand our own history, we think about two-spirit people who because of colonization, um you know a lot of their nation or in society or culture-specific knowledge of being two-spirit completely eliminated with um the language being suppressed.
00:08:44
Speaker
and cultural practices. And so it's just like, we have so many examples of that erasure happening. And really it doesn't just hurt trans and non-binary folks or two-spirit folks, ah but actually everyone ah to know that diversity exists, ah that it's not a scary thing, that it's a a normal part of human tapestry.
00:09:09
Speaker
and that we have gifts to give ah some and also receive from others, right? it just kind of tears that fabric ah very sadly and very tragically. With the current way that trans people are being represented in the media, how how would you say that's sort of shaping public perception overall?
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's creating this artificial other that it needs to be avoided all costs, certainly kind of driven out of somebody that it's not their true nature. This is something that they kind of just dreamt up, kind of usually in their minds overnight, like just kind of willy-nilly chosen ah because of whatever.
00:09:58
Speaker
ah hear things like, because people want attention or um because you know they're addicted. you know There's an addictive, they try to kind of liken it to being addicted to substances.
00:10:11
Speaker
um whole number of explanations that people provide. And, you know, really stoking up a lot of fear about people when, and then when they actually meet somebody who's trans, if they have the good fortune, um think a lot of it is just kind of disjointed because they're just like, what?
00:10:30
Speaker
You're just like any other person. You're just doing you. Maybe we even like the same things. Like, whoa. That's earth shattering. And so it just really um creates a lot of um distance and separation in ways that unfortunately harm so many, certainly trans and non-binary folks because can't see ourselves um in society.
00:10:57
Speaker
ah But certainly also for cisgender people because, yeah Anytime somebody trans comes forward, it's this fearful moment rather than like, oh, they might be making a really good or an important point.
00:11:10
Speaker
Let me listen. No, it's like we got to tamp that down and eliminate it. When I was first kind of thinking about my gender and whether or not I'm non-binary, I told myself quite a lot that it must be about attention or something like that. I really struggled with my reasons behind it because um I didn't look a certain way.
00:11:33
Speaker
And so i really struggled with that idea that, you know, there's an ulterior reason or ulterior motive for me thinking this. And so i think that what you said about how we see ourselves and like that kind of lacking of the representation, or the sort of negative representation that really alters or or affects the way that trans non-binary people see themselves and, and understand themselves.
00:11:59
Speaker
So I wanted to ask you about that really, and and how framing trans issues as a trend can really affect the outcomes for trans non-binary people. Yeah, it's such a good one. And, you know, you know, we certainly I've been talking about the impacts on cisgender people not knowing that trans and non-binary folks exist and pop up suddenly.
00:12:20
Speaker
But you're right that it does impact the journey that a trans or non-binary person goes on. and that it takes much longer if there's a lack of representation or lack of information about history or yeah you know even seeing oneself, ah being able to see oneself in current media as well. So,
00:12:42
Speaker
whenever somebody says, oh, it's a trend or another way of saying is it's a fad, right? um This kind of like here to here to, you know, for a moment and then gone doesn't speak to how how far, you know, kind of there that that present that identity is in oneself and you know,
00:13:07
Speaker
you know When people use that type of language, it then makes them doubt themselves in the way that you described, right? And certainly I did too. It took me very long because i didn't want to do it for, quote, the wrong reasons, right? Yeah. um I wanted it to to be very sure that this was an internally um generated thing that I, you know, and I knew that it was there all the way along and somehow I needed to override by providing way too much proof to myself to override that kind of stereotype, right?
00:13:46
Speaker
That fad phase, right? doing it for attention, you know, there's very long list of things that people do. um Oh, you should just try this and you should be okay. you don't have to like disrupt your whole life. Right. Versus like, if it, if people could accept, um, at a much, you know, much faster than it would be that much easier to step it, step out of, uh, from that internal realization into the external, uh, to make that, um,
00:14:18
Speaker
And for me, it's so sad because people are often like really crestfallen when trans people come out to them, right? Like, i didn't see it. I didn't know.
00:14:31
Speaker
You know, why didn't you tell me sooner? so we're kind of caught between this rock and a hard place pretty consistently of like, ye you should have told us sooner, but that's too fast. Right? And you're like, and okay, we where do you want me to go? like and it just feels like an impossibility essentially.
00:14:51
Speaker
And I think if people could be present with folks in their becoming, um how much more beautiful, how much more relaxed, how much more connected people could be in that process.
00:15:06
Speaker
um But unfortunately, there's just so many layers and murkiness and mess that it makes it really difficult um for trans people to be themselves from when they and when they understand that um rather than having to understand it and then be like, oh crap.
00:15:26
Speaker
Okay, now there's all this other stuff. And maybe a year goes by, a decade goes by before it's like, okay, now I'm ready to take ah more steps.
00:15:37
Speaker
here Can we talk about trans youth? And, you know, trans youth is a topic of conversation everywhere at the moment in quite a negative way. And when we're talking about framing trans people as a trend or as a fad, can you speak to what that does to trans youth and and how
Challenges Faced by Trans Youth
00:15:57
Speaker
it affects youth in particular?
00:15:58
Speaker
Oh my goodness. My heart breaks for trans youth right now. Like just point blank. I mean, i can't even imagine. Like it's one thing to you know be kind of in the shadows trying to figure yourself out, but it's quite another to try to figure yourself out and be able to express that to others while the governments are actively working against you or saying all kind of all manner of really awful things.
00:16:28
Speaker
um to discount or dismiss or um denigrate one's becoming. Like it's it such a big moment and it' just kind of sullied by all the things that are being said.
00:16:44
Speaker
And people don't realize the depth of the the piercings that they're creating with their words. um You know, youth come in all, you know, some are very strong and can advocate for themselves and others, they kind of crush under that weight.
00:17:02
Speaker
And um it won't be till many years later that they really share what's going on. And so people will miss out on years of somebody's life because of what's being said and done right now.
00:17:16
Speaker
And certainly the trend fad thing is often launched against ah trans youth specifically because you know how can you know yourself? um You're just, you know, it with this group of people who are brainwashing you or some community online, whatever the case may be When in fact, for many trans youth, this has been going on for them.
00:17:42
Speaker
And they finally connecting with something that can understand and express that and you know be able to share specifically what's going on to pinpoint it, which is a very exciting thing.
00:17:55
Speaker
um And the fact that they want to include other people in their lives, whether it's family, parents, siblings, extended family, friends, um and then their own their kind of main response is like, we don't believe you.
00:18:13
Speaker
okay. Like, what do you think? Youth is not going to respond very well to that. um And there'll be a range of ways that that manifests, right? Some will be anger, some will be frustration, others will be quiet, ah others will just quietly move like emotionally or physically distant, you know?
00:18:34
Speaker
So it's just a huge loss because of that. rather than being like, tell me more. i want to understand. i ah hear you say this, and you know as i understand this is a big moment, and i want to, like, if somebody doesn't legitimately understand, that's okay. i don't think people are expecting perfect understanding, but but this dismissal is very cruel.
00:18:58
Speaker
i don't think people realize how cruel it is. um And I think when people could reflect on hearing that themselves, um sharing a big piece of information that might help provide a bit of a bridge to understanding that, especially something very big that you've kind of wrestled with for a while and then sharing with somebody else and they just kind of like, so you know, cast it aside.
00:19:23
Speaker
Wow. I think there is that thing of like, if cisgender people don't understand it, it's projected so hard onto trans people. But at least from my understanding and my own experience and the people that I love who are trans, it's been such a long journey to that point where you're ready to come out, that it's the one thing they really are sure of.
00:19:46
Speaker
And you don't understand and you're confused, but they are not confused. And so, yeah, just trying to get that understood to the wider world is a really hard thing and like with youth feel like a lot of people forget how hard being a teenager is and being young is you're trying to figure yourself out and work out where you fit and where you stand and Really, like people do want to fit in, like we're built that way. We want to fit in.
00:20:15
Speaker
If someone is telling you that they feel like they're not or that something's not right, it's probably because they feel like something isn't right and something is different or that they need to figure something else out. And it would be great if you stood with them as opposed to immediately denying what they're saying because you're uncomfortable with it right yes so well said yeah it's so important and it doesn't mean that have it all figured out or know what to do it's just like Standing by someone, literally just next to them, being like, let's take the steps together.
00:20:50
Speaker
And any way I can, you know, stand up, say stuff, not say stuff, listen, you know, like whatever it is. It's very simple. ah Given that society is still on a journey of understanding trans youth, ah there's this fantastic campaign.
Supporting Trans, Two-Spirit, and Non-Binary Youth
00:21:10
Speaker
It's called the We Are Allies campaign. It's weareallies.ca. It's this fantastic national campaign here in Canada and also available elsewhere.
00:21:22
Speaker
both social media and a website with these beautiful stories ah where, you know, whether it's parents or family members or people who used to, who were more recently trans and non-binary youth telling their stories about supporting folks, what that looks like um and how important it is to show up for trans two-spirit and non-binary youth.
00:21:47
Speaker
ah There's Indigenous leaders who are stepping up and sending really strong messages that, of course, trans two-spirit and non-binary folks have always existed. um You know, there's certain things that complicate our ability to access that information, um whether colonization or destroying records or whatnot.
00:22:08
Speaker
ah But of course, always been there. um And so it just those are important things to go look at um to better understand. There's some research briefs in case you want you know a few more stats ah to fill out your understanding. But it's really important to to be able to understand what all is at play so that there's not these kind of cavalier statements like, oh, this is just a trend or this is some um something that somebody a a trans youth is doing for attention.
00:22:39
Speaker
ah It just isn't the case. And so it's really important ah to understand that better. And weareallies.ca a good place to start with that understanding. Amazing.
00:22:50
Speaker
I'm kind of continuing with the, with the idea that a lot of people are seeing being trans as a sort of trend. I wanted to ask about how the narrative around trans people and especially this idea that it's a trend and it often comes with an overemphasizing of the transition stories.
00:23:08
Speaker
Can I ask you about that? Like, do you have any thoughts and about that and how that changes or affect public perception? sir Yeah, thank you for that. It's an important aspect. So ah the concept of regret, right? So that this is a trend that somebody kind of gets caught up in and then at the end or at some other point, like regrets having done that wasn't the right thing for them.
00:23:34
Speaker
ah that they misunderstood themselves and were actually our cisgender, right? And so having gone through that process, they now know. And that in of itself, sometimes people are pushing that as a way to say, well, we need to really um question, push back on, ah delay anything for especially trans and non-binary youth, right?
00:24:01
Speaker
So those are almost linked in people's minds because people have regret, um then we shouldn't allow them forward until much later or this elaborate hoop jumping endeavor ah shows us otherwise.
00:24:16
Speaker
um Now, I will say that detransitioners are a very small percentage of um you know the experiences of gender diversity.
00:24:27
Speaker
So it's about 1% of 1%, right? so it's like very minuscule number of folks detransition. What I will say is it's very complicated. For some, they're actually cisgender and they needed to go through a process to better understand they're being cisgender.
00:24:45
Speaker
And for me, that's not a bad thing. and Certainly, maybe people didn't wish they had everything. um i can appreciate that and I have a sensitivity towards that.
00:24:56
Speaker
um But I think there is something about going through that process to really understand the depths of one being truly cisgender. Like that's a good thing in my mind.
00:25:08
Speaker
Of course, I would wanna listen to their stories to better understand that rather than putting my own story on them. But I will say another pretty significant portion of that 1% of 1% is actually folks who have such an awful coming out process that they are like, this was way too much. I did not reckon with this much like backlash from you know rejection for my family, loss of job, loss of spouse, loss of children, like you name it.
00:25:39
Speaker
like People really go through the wringer. And then are like, holy crap, and they backpedal, right? So it is actually their true identity, but the cost of it was too much for them to bear.
00:25:52
Speaker
And so they actually detransition, not because it's it's not and inauthentic, but it's just because they they don't want to bear those costs, which I totally appreciate. 100%.
00:26:04
Speaker
ah You know, I've had a pretty good time of coming out, you know, some challenges, but I will say, you know, if I had lost everything, i don't know, right? Like this is, it's just being honest, right? So you just can't know somebody's experience and it's actually a range of different things.
00:26:25
Speaker
And some people detransition and then retransition back, So it's not it's very kind of dynamic, moving, multiple types of experiences within
Exploration and Understanding of Gender Identity
00:26:37
Speaker
detransition. And can't there's no cookie cutter, right?
00:26:41
Speaker
And so I think it's important. I think really important what would really help is probably counterintuitive to so to many folks is to allow more space to explore.
00:26:54
Speaker
Because then people don't have to put this pressure on themselves to be like, if I tell everyone, I've got to be 100,000% sure. um And then there's a huge cost on the back end when actually there was still a little bit for them to to explore further, right?
00:27:09
Speaker
Instead, if we had a society where it's just like, hey, these things are coming up for me. I don't know exactly what they mean. i so i want to explore them a little bit. And this is how I want to explore them.
00:27:20
Speaker
um And then family, friends, you know employers, cool, let us know what you need. um And then going off on their merry way. And then people can kind of pivot in whatever way they need.
00:27:33
Speaker
I just wish it wasn't so rigid. and And I think that would help out many people. And I think you would see a detransition rate drop ah if people had more space.
00:27:44
Speaker
I actually had a really interesting conversation with my doctor relatively recently about this. i yeah In Alberta, I live in Alberta, there are some interesting things going on around trans youth here. Yes.
00:27:58
Speaker
And I was talking to my doctor about um her experiences. She runs a rainbow clinic here in Edmonton, and she was talking about how Because there is this panic of uncertainty and not knowing how things are going to play out, a lot of her patients are suddenly making leaps and asking for interventions when they wouldn't ordinarily be doing that. And they weren't they don't feel ready to do it and they wouldn't necessarily even want to do it. But because they are risking a future...
00:28:28
Speaker
where there is no option. right They are now trying to do it as quickly as they possibly can. And that is so heartbreaking. It's the opposite of what we think, that we're sort of funneling people into a decision that they maybe don't want to make.
00:28:40
Speaker
You're going to experience more regret by not allowing people to explore this in their own time and in their own way. um You're going to have the exact thing that you're trying to avoid by doing that.
00:28:51
Speaker
It's bananas. It's so counterintuitive in both directions, the way that you're describing. Absolutely, I've heard that as well. People rushing into things when you know they're not ready um because of this impending, looming, possible legislative change.
00:29:07
Speaker
And that's also the case in the United States um when really people need time and space to make these very important decisions, you know whether with themselves, if they're adults, and or if they're youth, to with their family and and whatnot.
00:29:21
Speaker
um you know, there should be time. and and have But unfortunately, if there isn't, then that can drive up the regret rate. And so it's just, it's making it more complicated when if we just like took a deep breath and be like, let's figure this out together, you know?
00:29:38
Speaker
and also what I don't appreciate sometimes is you know the myths and disinformation about you know basically child's overnight siding, this is not reality, but thinking on certain sides where wake up one day, go to school and ask for whatever ah gender affirming procedures and are immediately given them without you know any sort of parental involvement or doctor involvement.
00:30:05
Speaker
like That just does not happen. As soon as um you know a ah youth forms parents, they're involved, they go to doctors, the doctors you know run so many different tests, um even for adults.
00:30:19
Speaker
right i mean This does not happen overnight. It is a very protracted experience. um and so That is an important thing. could be a bit shorter, but um in my opinion.
00:30:33
Speaker
But, you know, just there's their guardrails already in place that people are just not aware of, don't understand. Maybe they don't want to understand, but this is not something just does not happen overnight.
00:30:46
Speaker
Mm hmm. We sort of joked a little bit at the beginning about you indoctrinating people. that's it And I wanted to ask you about the sort of what are the real factors that come into um but I suppose you can't speak for everybody, but from what you can see and in your own experiences of um understanding your own gender, what are the things that actually influence that, as opposed to imagining that it's just trans people are in the world, and therefore, we're all being indoctrinated. Right, right. Yes.
00:31:18
Speaker
I mean, it does start with oneself, right? I mean, that's step number one, in most, if not all trans and non binary experiences is this understanding, in contrast to what is being asked of us, to be like, well, that doesn't quite work, it doesn't fit, right?
00:31:38
Speaker
whether it's clothing or you know how one's body develops. um it just It's like, whoa, something's off or really off. and what helps with that understanding is being able to talk about it openly um you know with a trusted person. That definitely helped me just to kind of get it off the you know, the chest, literally.
00:32:02
Speaker
um oh And, you know, to to realize they're not alone in this experience, that others also have this.
00:32:13
Speaker
And what really helped me was you know I had these kind of notions or feelings or um understandings of myself. And it's not until I heard other people describing them that I was like, that's exactly what I, I'd never been able to put words to it before.
00:32:31
Speaker
And that was a very exciting experience. So definitely meeting with others. ah For me, somebody who was further along in their journey to, because i I had the notion that yes, I'm trans, but it's not worth coming out.
00:32:46
Speaker
about. I'll just be quietly trans to myself and maybe a few other folks, um but I'm not going to do anything about it. And it's too too much.
00:32:56
Speaker
But then I had a friend who was going through the process and it suddenly broke it down into more manageable pieces to be like, okay, it's not actually as far-fetched as I had put it in my own brain.
00:33:08
Speaker
And it was much more manageable to where it was more accessible for me to be like, okay, if I could do this, you know, i I could handle it, right? Yeah.
00:33:19
Speaker
So definitely having connected to a community um and to be able to talk about it and to be able to share with folks. For me, it was a color-coded spreadsheet.
00:33:30
Speaker
Now that's not for everybody. it But I... I had like from least um you know ah permanent. So like things I could do right away you know that didn't require cost, didn't require intervention, all the way to the most intervention.
00:33:48
Speaker
And I just went through them one by one and then you know filled in how I responded to them. And each step of the way, I was like, this resonates, this resonates. And so the item, i was like,
00:34:04
Speaker
All signs point to. And so i was a little bit more had a method methodology. Of course, nobody needs to have that. That's just me being quirky myself.
00:34:15
Speaker
That's the most you thing I've ever heard of. You can't take the kai out of anything. So yeah, that's very me, ah data oriented. So you know so that that was helpful too, to really have um ah being assured, right? Because me for me, I was trying to figure out, is this a matter of being non-binary or is this truly me being a trans man?
00:34:39
Speaker
And so I very much clarified it for myself. while also being able to incorporate aspects of femininity that still persisted, that are authentic to me and are part of me being a man. But also sharing with others, i you know shared my I was kind of testing out name and pronoun change with a close circle of friends as part of a running club, a queer running club. That was really important.
00:35:04
Speaker
First time I had people say my name and pronouns back to me, Yeah, bet. Oh, that was so cool. I was like, dang, I didn't even know that I needed this. This is the bomb.
00:35:16
Speaker
And then I was like, oh, I didn't stop after that. I was like, that test test is over. well that is my experience with you. ah You were the first to to use my pronouns. and We were recording a podcast episode. It was our first ever podcast recording.
00:35:30
Speaker
And so, yeah, i had it recorded the moment that you did that for the first time and you used my pronouns for the first time. And so... I had to watch that back as I was editing, which is torturous. But wow it was like, genuinely, i view that as one of the best days of my life, which I know that it seems very dramatic. No, no, no. It's the only place that I never really refer to with Dave and Pronounsers at work. And I don't mind that particularly. But yeah, it is great. Like, it's the best feeling.
00:36:01
Speaker
I think what you said about community and kind of meeting people who are further along in their journey is super interesting because it goes to this idea of um seeing people in public who are trans and having trans people out in the open and that's causing all this backlash.
00:36:20
Speaker
But also it's so important for people to understand themselves. And for me as well, I i don't think I would have ever reached this point had I not met a non-binary person and gone, Oh, you exist.
00:36:31
Speaker
That must mean I exist. Yeah. And then, you know, meeting other trans people along the way as well. But um yeah, meeting that particular person was very instrumental in figuring that out. And so this idea that trans people in public or being open about their experiences is,
00:36:47
Speaker
tricking people into being trans when actually what it's doing is highlighting something that they didn't maybe realize or, or that is highlighting who they are. It's seeing yourself represented.
00:37:00
Speaker
Absolutely. And a quick test of that is like, you know, I always, not always, but I ask some folks like if they're worried about this, if you see, you know, any sort of queer representation on TV, you don't immediately want to be queer, right? Like it's just...
00:37:18
Speaker
But I guess their response to that would be, well, it's feeble-minded folks who are just easily swayed, right? That are falling into, you know, innocently falling into these traps ah set by folks, right? It's like this insidious um nature.
00:37:34
Speaker
And that's, i know, it's just, it's not the case. It has to connect internally for it to go anywhere. Because otherwise, it's just like kind of an interesting thought at first, but it doesn't,
00:37:47
Speaker
persist It just, it's it's a flame and then it goes out if it's not authentic. But the persistence and consistency is the marker of true authenticity.
00:37:59
Speaker
um It just, and you can't help yourself. ah You can tamp it down. for a bit but it bubbles up like it's not something and people yeah it's so interesting but it's it's hard to explain but it is very real and as soon as it ah is allowed to surface it's um it is strong right for sure Well, this has been a really good conversation unpacking the many dimensions of why trans trans is not a trend.
Conclusion: The Global Existence of Trans Identities
00:38:33
Speaker
It is has always been here, will continue to stay into the future whether or not people choose to recognize it. It's just like no amount of pushing back will ever quiet what is there because it is authenticity. it It just can't not exist.
00:38:52
Speaker
And so it will. And, you know, this is not just here in North America. Sometimes people are like, oh, this is like, um sometimes people say, oh, this is a white thing, right? um Or a Western thing.
00:39:05
Speaker
ah When in fact, if you just look around the world, there's so many different examples. Of course, we, as you know, people who are not a part of that community wouldn't, you want to explain. We want people who are in those communities to explain, but think about Hirja in India. If you think about Moshe in Mexico, ah we did talk briefly about Two-Spirit folks here.
00:39:29
Speaker
ah There's a Mahu in Hawaii. um We could go on with a very long list around the world, but just inviting folks to to further explore those communities as well, because they're just a rich tapestry as part of the human experience and an important part.
00:39:45
Speaker
Of course, we are speaking mostly here in North America, but it's not exclusive to this area. Amazing. And where can we find you on social media, Kai? Ah, yes, the social medias. um We've got LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram.
00:40:01
Speaker
ah I was going to say Blue Notes, Blue Sky.
00:40:07
Speaker
I've got them all jumbled in my head. Threads, TikTok, etc. I'm sure there's a few others there that we're missing, but... ah Check us out. We have, you know, every week we're posting quite frequently all kinds of micro learning opportunities on a variety of different topics related to gender diversity. And yeah, look forward to staying in touch.
00:40:28
Speaker
Sweet. See you later. All right. Bye for now.