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S1 E29 Pat Fitzhugh - Author, Bell Witch Researcher and Paranormal Adventurer
13 Plays10 days ago
Pat Fitzhugh is a renowned torchbearer of Southern folklore, illuminating the shadowy corners of history with his masterful research, writing, and storytelling. He has spent nearly five decades unraveling one of America’s most enduring and mysterious supernatural cases The Bell Witch.
Pat grew up listening to the Bell Witch Stories, told by his mother.
We spoke about apparitions appearing on photographs, eerie sensations within the Bell Witch caves, and filming rabbits, that disappeared on the film.
I learnt not to remove pebbles from the Bell Witch Caves, and the question got asked about if there was a portal on the site of the Bell Witch Farm.
Pat spoke about the possible infatuation between Professor Richard Powell, and then discussed about how the Blair Witch project and The Bell Witch get confused with each other
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to SEPA Paranormal Chronicles and Guest Pat Fitzhugh
00:00:13
Lee Hatfield
Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of SEPA Paranormal Chronicles. Today I'm delighted to be talking to Pat Fitzhugh who's an author, researcher, paranormal adventure, adventurer and he specializes in the Bell Witch. Pat, welcome. Good evening.
00:00:34
Pat
Hey, well, thank you and good evening to you, Lee. How are you doing this evening?
00:00:38
Lee Hatfield
Not too bad at all. Thanks very much. like um I've had a pretty quiet day. What about yourself?
00:00:44
Pat
Oh, I've had a pretty busy day. Pretty busy for sure. And it's been really hot here in the Middle Tennessee area. So I've just been busy trying to keep cool and do all the other chores.
00:00:56
Lee Hatfield
yeah I can so relate. this It's not too bad. It's but it's been you guys use Fahrenheit. So it's probably been about 60 to 70 degrees here.
00:01:07
Lee Hatfield
But I live in an apartment block. I've got the balcony door open. Fans are going. Yeah. So not too bad, really.
Pat Fitzhugh's Background and Interest in the Bell Witch
00:01:16
Lee Hatfield
So what we'll do, if you can just start off by giving me a little bit of background about yourself and then we'll take it from there.
00:01:24
Pat
Okay, well, I'm from here in Middle Tennessee, and am in my 47th year of researching the Bell Witch Legend of Middle Tennessee. I've written a couple of books on it.
00:01:38
Pat
I've done some contributing author work for some other paranormal people. books And I also have a book out about ghost stories and weird stories from around the southeastern U.S. But The Bell Witch has always been a pet project.
00:01:54
Lee Hatfield
So let's jump straight into it. What got you interested with the Bell Witch?
00:02:01
Pat
Well, when I was a very small child, my mother would read me different stories to help me try to go to sleep at night. And one night she read from a book about the Bell Witch.
00:02:13
Pat
Now, whether she thought that would put me to sleep, I don't know. But I actually did fall asleep pretty soon Because my mind was just racing trying to figure out how how all of that could have happened or whether it was true or not.
00:02:30
Pat
So that was the first thing. I really liked that story. And as time went on, my mother explained to me that she had gone to school with some of the descendants of that family and others that are involved in that legend.
00:02:47
Pat
And that shocked me because I figured it probably did not even involve real people. But this involved real people and real places. So my interest just, you know, kind of sprang from there.
00:03:02
Pat
And I got... yeah I hold to some more books about it. I read about it there. And when I was a teenager, I began researching it seriously in terms of trying to find out what that little seed was that was planted at Red River that gave rise to this fascinating and often controversial legend.
00:03:30
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, because I've done some research, probably not as much as you, because I've only had a couple of days. But from what I understand, the Bell family of Adams, Tennessee, and it was 1817 1821.
00:03:44
Lee Hatfield
eighteen seventeen to eighteen twenty one Is that
00:03:48
Pat
Yes, sir. It's the Bell family, and at that time, it was called the Red River Settlement. Adams didn't come into existence until somewhere around 1859, but it was the John Bell family of the Red River Settlement.
00:04:00
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:04:02
Pat
1817 to time period most often associated with the legend
00:04:04
Lee Hatfield
And.
00:04:07
Pat
is the time period most often associated with the legend
00:04:13
Lee Hatfield
Right. And what was it that actually kicked this story off?
The Origin of the Bell Witch Legend
00:04:21
Pat
Well, what kicked it off was when the father of the family, John Bell, was out inspecting his cornfield one day and came upon this strange-looking animal that he had never seen before.
00:04:34
Pat
He didn't know what to think of it. You know, he had later described it as having the head of a rabbit and the body of a dog. And he took aim to try to shoot the thing And when he pointed his gun at it, it vanished into thin air.
00:04:52
Pat
And there were some other early apparitions, what we would call maybe trickster or shapeshifter entity type apparitions.
00:05:04
Pat
And then after a while... The family began hearing knocks and bangs at the doors and walls of their log home, began seeing strange-looking lights dancing in the fields or dancing near the fields back in the woods.
00:05:22
Pat
And everything just started, you know, started from there and became worse over time. And more and more disturbance types entered the picture as time went on.
00:05:35
Pat
It was as though this thing... fed off of the fear that people had, the collective fear, and just grew from there.
00:05:48
Lee Hatfield
And this is really interesting because, you the start start of the 1800s, you've got places like Salem that had their witch hunts and you had the same in the UK.
00:06:03
Lee Hatfield
So why do you think that the Bell Witch became such a big story is as what it is now?
00:06:13
Pat
Well, folklore, embellishments, and just the fascination with the unknown. I mean, everybody loves a good whodunit mystery.
00:06:28
Pat
You know, over the years, many different theories have been put forward, both paranormal theories and human theories, but it's impossible for anyone to prove with absolute certainty what gave rise to this legend, but what really happened.
00:06:45
Pat
So all we can do is put theories to it. And there been a lot of theories. Most all of the theories, I would say about 95%, have been debunked and don't hold water at all.
00:06:57
Pat
And there are a few that I think could provide a plausible explanation as to what might have happened back then to start it. And I think that mystery and intrigue that goes along with the legend, along with the story being retold down through the generations, that has really caused the legend, you know, it caused it to take hold, and it grows with each telling of the story and with each person who feels that they've had an encounter that might be related to the Bell Witch.
00:07:18
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:07:37
Lee Hatfield
Right. So is that location of where this incident happened still still there or yeah if it's been knocked down, what's what's on that location today?
00:07:50
Pat
Okay, well, it was a large farm. It was a total of 320 acres at one time, and it has since been subdivided many different ways.
00:08:01
Pat
There is one tract of land in particular that had the Bell family home, which of course is no longer there, the family well, and the family graveyard.
00:08:15
Pat
Another large tract of land About 110 acres, I believe, it is the tract of land on the northwest section of the farm where the Bell Witch Cave is.
00:08:28
Pat
So those two things, like the cave and then the site of where the home was, those are the most prominent parts of what was once the old Bell Farm.
00:08:40
Pat
Now the tract with the home and the well and the graveyard, you know, the graveyards up in the woods, the home and the well, that is now a field where I believe they raise tobacco or maybe corn or soybeans or something.
00:08:55
Pat
And that tract of land actually still remains in the Bell family through a trust.
00:09:02
Lee Hatfield
okay So now that it's kind of changed direction from what it used to be, are you aware of any modern day experiences that have happened within that area?
Modern Encounters and the Bell Witch Cave
00:09:20
Pat
Oh, people report encounters all the time. You know, I don't know that those encounters are related to the Bell Witch because there were so many other things going on back in olden times in that area.
00:09:34
Pat
But, you know, there's no shortage of encounters. One in particular is when people take photographs in the area and the photographs but are anomalous,
00:09:49
Pat
Sometimes there will be an apparition or what might be an apparition in the photo that was not seen when the photo was taken. Other times, a photo can be taken of a some item or something there in the area, some location, and no matter how many times the person took the photo, it would not come out properly.
00:10:13
Pat
And other people would try to photograph the same thing and it wouldn't come out properly for them too. But if they photograph something next to it, it would always turn out fine. So that's one big thing there.
00:10:27
Pat
Another thing is with the cave. The Bell Witch Cave and Farm is open for tours. And a lot of people over the years...
00:10:41
Pat
have talked about taking small rocks from the cave as souvenirs of their trip and tour, only to return those rocks sometime later after having experienced a very bad or very harrowing period of bad luck, bad luck that did not befall them until they took the rocks from the cave.
00:11:10
Pat
So, yeah, all kinds of encounters and anomalies there. But the two I mentioned, I think, are are the most prominent, the most talked about and most heard.
00:11:19
Lee Hatfield
Right. OK, so this is going to sound a silly question, but I assume that you've been to the cave.
00:11:27
Pat
Yes, I sure have.
00:11:30
Lee Hatfield
So.
00:11:30
Pat
In fact, I was up there probably two weeks ago.
00:11:34
Lee Hatfield
And I'm assuming you didn't bring any pebbles or rocks. out yeah So what kind of location is this cave?
00:11:38
Pat
No, I didn't.
00:11:44
Lee Hatfield
Is it a big cave, small cave? Yeah. You said that there's tours that go on. Can you describe that cave for me?
00:11:52
Pat
Well, I can try. i am no expert on caves. This cave is, i believe, called a Karst Cave, K-A-R-S-T. It is part of what is believed to be a much, much large larger or a large network of caves in the area.
00:12:14
Pat
When you enter the Bell Witch Cave, you will go down a very narrow corridor, and then come out into the first room, which I would say is pretty good size. It holds, I don't know, probably 30 people if you stuff them in there.
00:12:29
Pat
Then you go back down another very narrow corridor, and then you get into what I believe is called the back room, which is about as far as someone can go safely without being you know experienced at caving or having a lot of light.
00:12:47
Pat
And at the end, ah back of that second room, among the many different and really cool rock formations, there's a big formation that looks like the front of an eagle, and they call that Eagle Rock.
00:13:04
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:13:05
Pat
The cave maintains a certain temperature year-round.
00:13:05
Lee Hatfield
so
00:13:11
Pat
think it could be like 58 to 59 degrees, something like that. And the story has it that the Bells used that cave for storage.
00:13:23
Pat
What they stored in there, I don't know. Maybe they stored food. i'm not sure, food, drinks, or something. But I've heard that the Bells used it for storage.
00:13:34
Pat
Also, the cave below... below what is believed to be a Native American burial ground. Some archaeologists and historical people did verify that.
00:13:34
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:13:50
Pat
So yes, there's Native American graves nearby as well.
00:13:56
Lee Hatfield
Okay, so have you experienced anything when you've been visiting there?
00:14:01
Pat
At the cave, personally, nothing happened to me But I've been there when things have happened to other people. For example, on one occasion, I was down there taking a tour, and this has been probably 20 years ago, 25 years ago.
00:14:18
Pat
And one of the people taking the tour, a young guy probably in his, I guess his mid-20s or so, saying that somebody or something kept poking him there in the first room of the cave.
00:14:31
Pat
And then... he started you know mentioning about he felt felt this really cold sensation right up against his neck. He didn't know what it was, but it was like a nail or a needle or something, very cold, trying to pierce the skin on his neck.
00:14:48
Pat
Well, that was interesting, but I really didn't think much more about it because, you know, when people go into places that are reputedly haunted and other people have had issues, sometimes a power of suggestion comes in And even a normal or natural feeling could be misinterpreted as an anomaly.
00:15:10
Pat
So after everybody, we finished that tour and got up to the top of the hill up there by the cave. And we were all standing around talking. And the guy kept on and on about it. And he offered to let me touch his neck where he felt that sensation because he said it still felt really cold.
00:15:32
Pat
And I put my finger on the spot that he guided it to and sure enough, his neck in that one very tiny spot, no bigger round than the end of my finger, was ice cold.
00:15:46
Lee Hatfield
That's crazy.
00:15:47
Pat
Right. Now, you know, whether that was the Bell Witch, whether it was something of a Native American origin, whether it was something medical, I don't know.
00:15:58
Pat
But I thought that was a very very eerie. And it made me believe more about the other things he said that happened where he had heard some whispers in there and felt at one time like something had his its hand on his back, like it was just about to push him but didn't.
00:16:17
Pat
So that was that encounter there at the cave that I was around. As far as my own encounters, I've been up to Adams a few times over the years where strange things have happened I've talked about those in books on interviews before.
00:16:33
Pat
I think one of the most bizarre things was when I was working on a Bell Witch documentary video. This was probably about 1998, 1989.
00:16:45
Pat
And I had a nice, fancy video camera. At least for those days, it was nice and fancy.
00:16:52
Pat
had the tape and all the other other stuff, you know. and I was going to shoot some ah ah background stuff or what we what we would call B-roll.
00:16:52
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:17:04
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:17:04
Pat
And parked beside the highway and there was a field and i decided I would stand there beside of it and on the shoulder of the road and just do a few quick videos of the field, you know, trying to capture what the fields in the countryside of Northwestern Robertson County looked like.
00:17:24
Pat
Well, as started, got my camera ready to film, I noticed these three little rabbits. I guess they, I wouldn't call them babies, but they weren't fully grown either.
00:17:37
Pat
In the field, probably 40, 50 feet away from me, running around in circles, playing with each other. thought that was kind of cute. So I thought, what the heck?
00:17:47
Pat
So I hit record on the camera and I began to film them. and they played and played. It was almost as though they knew I had a camera on them because they played even harder and even came a little closer when I started recording.
00:18:03
Pat
So then I turned off the recorder and made a bunch of noise and acted silly, you know, to scare them away so i or get them to move so I could, you know, just shoot my B-roll of the field.
00:18:03
Lee Hatfield
code.
00:18:15
Pat
Well, that evening after i arrived back home and started going through all the video I had shot, The clip where I had recorded with the rabbits was still there the tape, but the rabbits themselves were missing.
00:18:38
Pat
And i was the video showed my camera basically slowly following a certain area of the field around in circles where the rabbits were, but those rabbits were not in that video.
00:18:40
Lee Hatfield
That's weird.
00:18:55
Pat
They had vanished.
00:18:57
Lee Hatfield
That must have blown your mind.
00:19:00
Pat
Well, you know, it, it, I don't know, it it blew my mind. I mean, yeah, it was very surprising, but, you know, I'm one of these people that's like, okay, this is strange. I just don't believe this.
00:19:17
Pat
Show me what happened.
00:19:19
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:20
Pat
Well, I couldn't think of anything that happened and, Over the years since then, I've only had one person offer up an explanation, and they weren't even sure. They just suggested you know a possibility that perhaps there had been something on the film before then, and this filmed over the top of it, and whatever had been on the film beforehand, right at that very point where I did The Rabbits and at no other point,
00:19:51
Pat
happened to make it appear as the rabbi the rabbits weren't there anymore. But that was just a suggestion. Now, but let's go back and tie this to the Bell Witch.
00:20:04
Pat
Early accounts of the Bell Witch talked about how this thing, or talked about how people would encounter rabbits, or see rabbits, and be talking about their encounters with rabbits there around Red River, and the so-called bell witch entity would speak up and say, that rabbit was me, or I was that rabbit.
00:20:35
Pat
So this thing, then we go back to the John Bell example at the very beginning, seeing the half dog, half rabbit. It seemed that this thing, according to the Bell Witch folklore, manifested often in the form of a rabbit.
00:20:53
Pat
So that's what really made this eerie. It's because I got out of the car to shoot the video and I didn't see the rabbits and all of a sudden I did.
00:20:57
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:21:01
Pat
And then they vanished from the final product video. so I thought that was very eerie.
00:21:08
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Yeah, that's for sure. So with regard the fact that you've done all this research with regard to the Bell Witch, would you call yourself a a believer of the paranormal or a skeptic?
00:21:23
Pat
Well, I can't lay claim to either one because hold myself out as a balanced researcher, free of any bias. I'm open to either possibility.
00:21:39
Pat
I'm very open to the notion that this was paranormal in origin. And I'm also very open to the notion that it might not have been paranormal in origins.
00:21:52
Pat
So that's my take as far as believing it or not. I keep, you know, on the fence about that, you know, like unbiased.
00:22:02
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and and I think that's the the right attitude to have because I call myself a skeptic with an open mind. Yeah, and I obviously, i investigate for things if to find things.
00:22:15
Pat
Yeah.
00:22:16
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and I hope that they do happen.
00:22:19
Lee Hatfield
But if it's not recorded and you don't have the evidence, it's just a personal experience. It's just my word against yours, so to speak.
00:22:27
Pat
Yeah, you don't have any much to go on.
00:22:30
Lee Hatfield
No, exactly.
00:22:31
Pat
But, yeah, I am a researcher, but I also wear another hat, and that is the hat of a storyteller. I travel all around promoting and celebrating the legend of the Bell Witch by giving lecture events and telling all the different Bell Witch stories.
00:22:52
Pat
And occasionally I will inject some of my research in there to make it more scary. And also after the events and the Q&A sessions, I share some of my research then.
00:23:06
Pat
So I wear two hats.
Researcher and Storyteller: Pat's Dual Role
00:23:08
Pat
You know, I tell people, you know, that I will sit there and tell them Bell Witch stories all night long. But then if I put on my researcher hat, I'm going to go down the list of stories and say, this is true, this is not true, this might have happened, might not have happened.
00:23:08
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:23:24
Pat
you know So I wear two hats. So I've pretty much come to be basically a storyteller that knows how to read between the lines.
00:23:37
Lee Hatfield
um That makes sense. Yeah. So you mentioned the the cemetery or the graveyard. So is there any evidence of the Bell family being buried there?
00:23:48
Lee Hatfield
being buried there
00:23:50
Pat
we have stories that have been handed down and we have old accounts saying that they're buried there at the Bell graveyard and the location is given.
00:24:02
Pat
However, and the 1950s, the original gravestone of John Bell was stolen. Also, some of the other gravestones of some other family members had been stolen or vandalized.
00:24:18
Pat
So the result was... There was nothing there in terms of the Bell family. That was until 1957 when a descendant had a new gravestone made for John and Lucy Bell and placed in the Bell Cemetery.
00:24:35
Pat
Now, that stone does not mark mark the precise location of where the Bells are buried, but they're buried nearby somewhere. The graveyard is in the woods. It's a thicket in the woods.
00:24:51
Pat
What you will see, however, are a number of old field stones. And those field stones are believed to mark the graves of some of the family's slaves who worked on the farm.
00:25:06
Pat
And that Bell graveyard is a part of the property that's owned by that trust and the Bell family. And it's, of course, off limits to any trespassing.
00:25:21
Lee Hatfield
So all the time that you've been yeah all the time that you've been investigating this and researching this, do you have kind of one piece of documentation or information that you find the most compelling?
00:25:23
Pat
Excuse me.
00:25:38
Pat
Well, when we say compelling, ah you asking, do I have something that proves what everything exactly was?
00:25:49
Pat
or some ideas to what might have actually happened, theories.
00:25:50
Lee Hatfield
aye
00:25:58
Lee Hatfield
oh it's Yeah, because obviously with it being so long ago, it's very, yeah, and like you said, there's a lot there's a lot of folklore stories that have now got intertwined.
00:26:10
Pat
Right.
00:26:10
Pat
And you're, you know, I don't think anybody's going to find any documentation that says exactly what happened at Red River to cause the Bell Witch Legend to come into existence, or at least not prove it.
00:26:10
Lee Hatfield
So let's go, yeah, so let's go with the latter.
00:26:30
Pat
But there are some theories out there. There are, you know, a lot of them that don't make sense that have been debunked. There's some that, you know, could hold water as for my own.
00:26:44
Pat
In the past, I've introduced two theories, and one is paranormal and one is human. The paranormal theory, which is very long, probably too long for us to cover here, essentially boils down to certain things being done on or near the Bell Farm or throughout the community, which opened up a portal.
00:27:16
Pat
and the portal, this entity slipped through, or multiple or multiple spirits slipped through.
00:27:16
Lee Hatfield
right.
00:27:26
Pat
And that one, because of this thing, first of all, exhibited the characteristics of many different paranormal entity types, the theory is that there was one spirit above all the rest that conjured or controlled these other entities and what they would do at different times.
00:27:48
Pat
But it all boils down to a portal theory. As for the human theory, the one I introduced was that the children's school teacher, Professor Richard Powell, devised and orchestrated the whole thing.
00:28:08
Pat
He had reason to, he had a fondness for young Betsy, The father did not like the idea of that because of the age difference there.
00:28:20
Pat
And the father did end up dying. and And looking at the old early accounts, you see all these stories of this entity saying some very, very intelligent things.
00:28:36
Pat
And that school teacher, who seemed to always be around when something happened, was known to be a very well-educated man.
00:28:47
Pat
Some have said, at least one educator I know of, has said that if he were alive today, his knowledge level would put him at the level of a genius.
00:28:58
Lee Hatfield
Bye.
00:28:59
Pat
And he also had the gift of gab. He could talk to anyone and make them feel comfortable. He was a pleasure to talk with. People didn't mind sharing secrets with him.
00:29:11
Pat
other things about their lives because he was a very trusted man. He was a school teacher.
00:29:18
Pat
And, you know, that theory is a human theory that, you know, he wanted more than anything in the world to marry Betsy. He would do whatever it took to do that.
00:29:30
Pat
Betsy's father was in the way of that. Some of her brothers weren't too keen on it either. you know, Also, Betsy, who is the youngest daughter, by the way, during the latter part of the legend, had a little relationship or courtship going with some local boy there and had announced her engagement to it.
00:29:55
Pat
And looking back at the early accounts of the legend, this entity kept telling Betsy over and over, do not marry Joshua Gardner.
00:30:06
Pat
Well, if the school teacher had a crush on this little girl, which I definitely would consider inappropriate and pretty creepy, think it's I think it's pretty fair to assume that he would not want Betsy marrying somebody else.
00:30:23
Pat
So there's that. And that was the human theory I put forward.
Theories about the Bell Witch
00:30:29
Pat
I do stand by both theories. I think both... hold a lot of water, and could very either one could very well explain what occurred on the Red River over 200 years ago.
00:30:43
Pat
And there are other theories. There are other theories out there. There's one I'm working on right now, or that I have completed work on, which I'm unable to share for various reasons. I can't share it right now anyway.
00:30:57
Pat
but, you know, that takes a completely different angle to this, where we're no longer categorizing theories as either paranormal or human, but adds a whole new category and a theory.
00:30:57
Lee Hatfield
Show.
00:31:12
Pat
And more on that will come later this year.
00:31:17
Lee Hatfield
That sounds interesting. But it would certainly make sense if there's a...
00:31:22
Pat
me
00:31:23
Lee Hatfield
The school teacher, for example, if he's got a ah ah soft stop a soft spot for Betsy and he doesn't want anybody else involved, it would kind of...
00:31:34
Lee Hatfield
in modern day, it would be that manipulation of that individual to turn others, yet to turn her against others so that he was the only one that could have her to him to himself. So that yeah now now that we know what we know from today's world, that would make perfect sense looking at it logically.
00:31:58
Pat
yeah well another thing to that human theory there the man's education
00:32:06
Pat
but he was smart enough to pull it off and I think he had the gift of gab and the social skills to possibly involve a couple other people possibly
00:32:08
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:32:19
Pat
you know I don't know that he could have done it by himself.
00:32:22
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:32:22
Pat
Now, one thing another thing you have to look at, some of these things there's no way he could have done. But then again, some of those early accounts have been disproven and debunked and all that, and we know they didn't happen and couldn't happened.
00:32:40
Pat
For example, the story about the man walking through the woods and encountering a rabbit the size of a human and having a conversation with that rabbit.
00:32:52
Pat
Or that some neighbor was had the had bad feelings for the Bell family and like put a curse on them and started working black magic.
00:33:04
Pat
That's probably the most bizarre, idiotic theory I've ever heard. and her name was Kate Batts. And that one was debunked i almost 25 years ago
00:33:17
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:33:17
Pat
So, you know, there's a lot of things in the Bell Witch story that no one could have been behind or done.
Clarifying the Bell Witch vs. Blair Witch
00:33:25
Pat
But the core part of it or the main driver to the whole legend could have been pulled off by one or more people, well, two or more people, especially if one of those people had the education and social skills that Professor Powell possessed.
00:33:25
Lee Hatfield
Now,
00:33:43
Lee Hatfield
hundred per cent So when you sort of like you Google the Bell Witch, it it also comes out with the Blair Witch. So is the Blair Witch based on the Bell Witch or is it just because it sounds similar or yeah very similar spelling that the two stories have now got joined for no apparent reason?
00:34:05
Pat
No, it's not based on the Bell Witch at all. Where that got started, if I remember correctly, there was a precursor to the Blair Witch Project movie.
00:34:19
Pat
I think it was a documentary video or something called The Curse of the Blair Witch. And in that, somebody made reference to the Bell Witch.
00:34:32
Pat
Well, then the Blair Witch came out. So everybody started looking for the Blair Witch on the internet. Instead, they found Bell Witch. And at the time, there was only one website on the internet that was fully devoted page after page to the Bell Witch legend and researching it.
00:34:54
Pat
And that was my site, www.bellwitch.org,
00:34:59
Pat
which is still around and in full swing today. so The Blair Witch came out. I received a lot of emails, you know, people asking, you know, okay, the Bell Witch, the Blair Witch. Is it the same thing? Did the Bell Witch inspire the Blair Witch?
00:35:00
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:35:20
Pat
And then a lot of emails to the effect of, man, you need to take down this Bell Witch website because all you're doing is stealing the Blair Witch.
00:35:32
Pat
And, you know, I'm responding... you bumbling idiot. The bell witch has been around for almost 200 years. I did not steal the bell witch from your silly Blair witch.
00:35:43
Pat
Yeah, it was it was crazy.
00:35:44
Lee Hatfield
but That was stupid.
00:35:47
Pat
But, yeah, and of course, then you had the ones come back and say, well, you need to be more humble. And, you know, good Lord, I try to be humble, but, and I think I am. and A lot of people have said I'm very humble, but You know, there is this certain personality type where they have a very low tolerance for, let's say, misinformation,
00:36:18
Pat
people being uninformed and things like that. And, you know, sometimes it can really, you know, really tick me off, you know. Somebody accused me of something, they don't even know what the heck they're talking about.
00:36:31
Pat
But, you know, on the other hand, it doesn't surprise me because anyone who is an author and a researcher, especially on something controversial, which would mean anything paranormal and like the Bell Witch, they're going to have all kinds of people accusing them of everything under the sun and calling them every name in the book. You know, I knew that when I got into it.
00:36:55
Pat
And, you know, I didn't have any problem with it. That's just part of it.
00:37:00
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:37:01
Pat
It comes with it. Okay.
00:37:02
Lee Hatfield
Oh, for sure. So we are coming towards the end, but have you encountered any resistance or apart from what you've just said, negative reactions to your stories about the the Blair Witch?
00:37:22
Pat
Okay. The Bear Witch or the Bell Witch?
00:37:24
Lee Hatfield
Sorry, the Bell Witch. Sorry.
00:37:26
Pat
Oh, okay.
00:37:26
Lee Hatfield
Sorry.
00:37:26
Pat
Okay.
00:37:27
Lee Hatfield
Getting confused now.
00:37:28
Pat
Yeah, don't give me don't get me squi started on the Blair Witch.
00:37:33
Lee Hatfield
yeah on the bell w side
00:37:35
Pat
Yeah, because the Blair Witch, I left the theater and kept asking the person, where's the freaking witch? Where is it? I just saw a bunch of kids running through the woods screaming. I mean, how what is that?
00:37:44
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. I've never watched it.
00:37:47
Pat
Okay, reactions.
00:37:47
Lee Hatfield
so
00:37:48
Pat
Yeah.
00:37:49
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. any Any resistance or negative reactions to your writing on the Bell Witch?
00:37:56
Pat
Absolutely, all the time. And that's just part of it.
Challenges in Bell Witch Research
00:38:01
Pat
You know, when you're writing, when first of all, when you've been researching something for almost 50 years and writing about it, promoting it, celebrating it, and at the same time, digging deeper and deeper into the research and publishing your findings, and it's something controversial like the Bell Witch, you're going to have a lot of people who are going to be your followers, they're going to love your work.
00:38:30
Pat
But you're also going to have a lot of naysayers, people who just don't care for what you're doing. you know You know, like, for example, you know, sometimes things like that, well, most of the time, let me just put it this way and put it bluntly, some of the worst things in most outlandish accusations and misjudgments I've ever heard, most all of those that are real severe come from competitors.
00:39:05
Pat
Think of Wendy's talking nasty about McDonald's or Coca-Cola talking nasty about Pepsi.
00:39:12
Lee Hatfield
Right, yeah, yeah.
00:39:16
Pat
They're invalid complaints and whatever you want to call it, they're invalid because of the source. The source has a vested interest into trying to tear down everybody else but themselves in an attempt to make themselves look better.
00:39:35
Pat
So if I get some email that's really severe or hear some kind of really bizarre rumor, you know, I say, well, I wonder when he's going to be coming out with his Bell Witch book.
00:39:47
Pat
And then sure enough, ah ah you know, a few months later, a new Bell Witch comes out, which is a copy and paste of my own Bell Witch book, but yet goes around dogging me, you know.
00:40:00
Pat
And that just happens, you know.
00:40:02
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:40:03
Pat
You know, and it's highly unethical and highly unprofessional in the book industry to do that. But, you know, that's just the way some people do it, you know. They...
00:40:15
Pat
instead of submitting their work and become successful on their own ethics and merits and their own integrity and the quality of the work, they just throw whatever they have out there and then they steal from some established researcher.
00:40:31
Pat
And then after they sell the book or give the lecture based on information that was found by that researcher, they go around dogging that researcher.
00:40:40
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, yeah.
00:40:41
Pat
You know, I had... You know, it happens, but, you know, are you still there?
00:40:46
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, I'm still here, yeah.
00:40:48
Pat
Can you still see me okay?
00:40:50
Lee Hatfield
Your camera's just gone off.
00:40:53
Pat
Let me try to fix that. My thumb accidentally turned off my phone, I think.
00:40:58
Lee Hatfield
I can still hear you.
00:41:00
Lee Hatfield
There we go.
00:41:02
Pat
Okay, sorry about that. I'm having to hold this phone sideways, and I have a little bitty fat fingers.
00:41:04
Lee Hatfield
That's OK.
00:41:08
Pat
So anyway, with the research, you know, that's the way it goes. And it's not all directed toward me at all.
00:41:12
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:41:16
Pat
Other Bellwitch researchers and authors, you know, they have their fan clubs too, and they have their hate clubs too. I've heard a lot of bad nasty things about them as well.
00:41:26
Lee Hatfield
yeah makes sense.
00:41:26
Pat
You know, but, you know, having done this almost 50 years, and really worked hard to get that research out there, spent a lot of time and money getting the research out there, and working hard to deliver as good of events as I can and all that, doing it year after year, you know, for that many years, certain good things are going to come from it.
00:41:55
Pat
And sometimes not everybody's going to understand why.
00:41:58
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:41:59
Pat
you know And it just goes back to experiencing longevity. And anybody can achieve the same thing. You just got to get on it, make a commitment to work at it, and stick with it.
00:42:14
Lee Hatfield
For sure. So apart from this project that you can't mention, what's next on the agenda fur for Pat?
00:42:23
Pat
Well... Next on the agenda, I have some events coming up later on in the year. have say it's the West Kentucky Paranormal Expo, I believe that's in September, up in Mayfield, Kentucky.
00:42:41
Pat
i have GoblinCon, which is a I think a resurrection of the Goblin Con Festival that they used to have all the time up there near Hopkinsville, Kentucky.
00:42:54
Pat
They're doing that this year in October. i also have a couple of events coming up down in Mississippi. There's very strong Bell Witch connections down there and a lot of interest in it there.
00:43:09
Pat
Also, I've got some other conferences and conventions that, Oh, and also the Arkansas Paranormal Expo the last weekend of October. I'll also be presenting at that. So very busy year. And like I say, i have completed a theory, ah new theory.
00:43:32
Pat
In fact, not even a theory. I've been told that it's actually a breakthrough, but I don't know. But it's going to change the way a lot of people look at the Bell Witch Legend.
00:43:44
Lee Hatfield
Well, I'm definitely going to look forward to that, that's for sure.
00:43:47
Pat
Yeah, and there will be a surprise coming up later in the year, which I'll talk about probably not too long from now.
00:43:56
Lee Hatfield
I'll definitely look forward to that. Okay, Pat, it's been an absolute pleasure. Like say, I love talking about completely different subjects and your subject has been something that ah ah not many people have touched on. So to have your time tonight, it's been an absolute pleasure.
00:44:12
Lee Hatfield
And I thank you very much. And I hope you have a great rest of the evening. Thank you.
00:44:17
Pat
Well, thank you very much. It's been an honor to be on here. You've had some really great questions. I've really enjoyed talking to you. So you take care and I hope we can see each other again sometime.
00:44:27
Lee Hatfield
Most definitely. Probably at a convention.
00:44:30
Pat
There you go.
00:44:30
Lee Hatfield
Thanks so much. Take care. Bye-bye.