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00:00:01
With Matt from Frontiers
295 Plays5 months ago
In many parts of the UK, we can expect to encounter people from Muslim backgrounds in our communities. Sharing the Gospel with them can be a great opportunity, but can be daunting. There are many assumptions we can make, but how can we approach them in a spirit of humility and friendliness? Today's guest shares with Andy from his experience working with Muslims in the UK and in Pakistan.
For more information on the resources mentioned in this episode, email Matt<at>frontiers.org.uk
For over 20 years, Matt has been with Frontiers, a mission agency dedicated to making disciples and planting churches amongst Muslims. He spent most of his 30s in northern Pakistan, where he had close calls with terrorism, sectarian fighting and a massive earthquake. Now based in the UK, Matt regularly speaks at CUs, churches and conferences on God’s heart for all peoples and how to communicate the gospel to Muslims. He hosts a podcast, called Raw Mission and has just begun volunteering as a prison chaplain.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:11
Speaker
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. I am Andy Bannister from Solace, and astute regular listeners will notice we are missing a second voice. My co-host, Christy Vare, is off doing something exciting and academic in Anglican ah this morning. So I'm flying solo, but that's OK, because I have a guest for you today who is more than capable of filling every spare second of airtime we have over the next 20 to 25 minutes. I am joined by Matt. ah from ah from Frontiers. ah Matt, welcome to PepTalk. Hi, Andy. Good to be with you. Well, it's great to have you on the ah the podcast.
What is Frontiers?
00:00:49
Speaker
And the first thing I guess, Matt, before we get to your story, what is Frontiers? For people who don't know that name, what is the organization? What is it what does it do? And why are you excited about being part of it?
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, so gosh, I've been with Frontiers now for a good couple of decades. We are a mission agency that focuses exclusively on Muslims. We send teams out around the world to work in their different professions or do community development or whatever it might be, but we're all about sharing the love of Jesus with Muslims. Our tagline is with love and respect, ah bringing Muslims to Jesus. So yeah, that's what we're about. um I love being part of this organization. We're very multicultural. We have, I think, ah gosh, I don't know, 1,500, 1,600 workers, I think, around the world, not including all their kids and families. We come from about 50 different nations and we work in about 50 plus different nations as well.
Relevance of Islam Discussion
00:01:45
Speaker
That's absolutely amazing. um as As we're recording this, I find myself thinking, what a timely conversation as well, because Islam seems to be ever more in the news with migration, bringing more Muslims into our towns and cities. So really, are you know I think, good time to be having this conversation. But before we get to Muslims in this country, and perhaps how we go about engaging with them and and your experience of that, let's sort of you know scroll the clock back, because you're based in the UK right now, but you've also done lots of overseas
Experiences in Pakistan
00:02:11
Speaker
stuff, right? So so Pakistan was where you spent a great chunk of time so Tell us a bit about that. what was it What was it like um serving in that in that in that country where ah challenging one would have thought? Yeah, there were definitely challenges. um I mean, day one, i I arrived and a couple of my friends were in a terrorist attack where grenades were just rolled into their church in Islamabad. This is back in 2002. So yeah, that that set off a series of attacks on foreigners actually. So there are definitely, there are dangers out there in Pakistan.
00:02:42
Speaker
But overall, I absolutely loved it. um It was a joy to be there, a privilege. um To be honest, I still miss it today. It was a great place to live and work and serve God, um mainly because you just realize you're spending time with people who've never met a follower of Jesus before. And they have so many preconceived ideas that are completely wrong about Jesus, about the gospel, about Westerners, maybe even old Christians. So that was a real honor and privilege to be there. And I love the adventure of it actually. yeah I love that point about meeting people who've had no no kind of contact before. I was reminded that the other week I was doing a university kind of mission week in Canterbury and we had an international evening and I was on a table with a bunch of Pakistani students who were overstudying maths and engineering and you know so I sort of braced myself for all kinds of you know Muslim questions but the first guy the question he asked me I mean it sort of staggered me slightly he was like so yeah you Christians have have the have the Bible right I was like yeah what what is it I just no idea what what is the Bible. And it was really interesting to not hostile, no objections, but nominal Muslim, I think, Muslim background, but knew nothing. So when you're out on the field in someone like Pakistan, how how do you start?
Building Relationships in Pakistan
00:03:54
Speaker
I mean, Matt, what what does mission look like when you're in that kind of context? You've got to be a bit careful, but also huge opportunities. People know absolutely nothing in some cases, never met a Christian. What are some of the way the ways in to begin building relationships?
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, um it's not too dissimilar to here in Britain, to be honest. When you start a conversation, there's more interest, I think, when you're overseas somewhere like that. Like, oh, they know that they they're meeting someone different. And so they're interested in your life. And they'll very quickly ask you, um oh, what are you doing here? Why are you here? And that opens ah an opportunity to talk about your faith. um It's very easy to talk about faith with Muslims, actually. People might feel a bit intimidated. but They all have a faith. They all believe in one God. We have so much in common. And even they'll very quickly say, are you a Muslim? And they might be hoping you'd become a Muslim if you're not one, or they might even think you are one because you've chosen to live in in their country. um But that opens so many doors so quickly. Well, you know, yeah, what is a Muslim? you know And you can answer that very quickly just talking about, well,
00:04:58
Speaker
Yes, I absolutely believe in one God. you know Or you tell me what a Muslim is and you can you can very quickly get into spiritual conversations. yeah and And that's the same out there as it is here. As long as you're kind and careful, not jumping into politics or attacking them in a public setting especially, um people are very inquisitive all over the world, I found that. Well, that that leads me to really nicely research to the to the next question where you could almost have rehearsed this, which was, um so you talk about the rest of the world, now you're back in the UK.
Cultural Engagement in the UK vs Pakistan
00:05:28
Speaker
Let's start with what what are some of the what are some of the perhaps similarities and what are some of the differences in engaging Muslims here? Obviously, things you've learned in Pakistan, very, very helpful for for outreach to Muslims here, but also some differences. What are some of the similarities, some of the differences that you've you've seen in having a foot in both cultures?
00:05:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think um in Pakistan, to be honest, you meet more people who are very hospitable and will bring you into their homes. So it's it's easier, especially for us guys, I think, in in a culture in Pakistan, they very quickly welcome you in, you're the guest, you're the stranger. Here in Britain, is actually, we found it a bit harder to get into homes to be invited in. um My wife hasn't found the same. She's been very good at making friends and being invited in, but I think because sometimes the ladies here have a bit more time if they're raising kids at home and so on. Whereas for us guys, it's a bit harder because the men here seem to be working a lot. you know They work a full-time job. They have so much community here. They're not looking for friendships. You're not unusual. You're not strange when you're in Britain. But in terms of
00:06:36
Speaker
faith conversations, I would say here Muslims in Britain feel like they know Christianity but more than they do in Pakistan. So in Pakistan, they'd be quicker to ask about your faith than here. So and on taking that the the obvious next step in that, then how do you, um you know if you've got ah a Muslim next door neighbor, perhaps there's a Muslim that you see at the you know as you go shopping regularly, that a Muslim you're interacting with regularly in your UK setting, what are some ways that you you've learned, Matt, that might be a great ways to begin those conversations, particularly now thinking anything you can share that perhaps someone who hasn't had your Pakistan experience might withdraw on. Because one thing I've discovered,
00:07:20
Speaker
And maybe feel free to reflect on this too. I meet lots of Christians here in the UK who I think genuinely want to reach Muslims, genuinely feel they should be reaching Muslims, but you know, it's like rabbit in the headlights. where where Where do I start? They have no idea how to begin. There can be all kinds of fears associated with Islam because of the news and the media or just the sheer difference of the Muslim community at times. So where where do we begin? How do we start conversations with Muslims God brings across our path? Yeah, that's that's a good question, Andy.
How to Start Conversations with Muslims?
00:07:50
Speaker
I mean, you probably find the same. I will get onto some little practical tips literally in in the the store or at the school gate, but I think just to back up a little bit to address some of those fears you're talking about. yeah
00:08:03
Speaker
One thing I always start with when I'm talking to people about you know how do we connect well with Muslims is we need to break away from this idea that all Muslims are the same. They're all really good at apologetics. They're all ready to smash your faith and have a big argument with you. Actually, they're not. and And every single Muslim you meet is different. And so one of the key things I think about and talk about is sharing stories and getting to know people. Because the Muslim you're talking to might be anywhere on the scale of very liberal up to you know very fundamental or very extremist. They might be from a very wealthy country, very well educated, or they might be from a poor village in Kashmir.
00:08:42
Speaker
or Afghanistan, and they've come over to this country. So you can't really launch into any kind of faith conversation without listening a little bit and getting to know them as a person, because that first and foremost is who they are. So of all the different kinds of Muslims that are out there, we don't need to feel, oh, I need to know this and that about focused Islam or academic Islam or major apologetic arguments. The first thing is just to ask questions. Get to know someone. Hey, how are you doing? you know And tell me about your background. um how long have you lived in this town? And oh, you are you from the UK? Were you born in the yeah UK? Or did you come from somewhere else? And it just shows interest in their lives and in their story. I think that's so important. And then naturally, you can move from what might start off and as an external conversation to internal, where you're asking more feelings, questions, or what do you think about this or that? or And then into eternal questions. So from external to internal to eternal questions.
00:09:38
Speaker
I find that really helpful. Just start with with friendliness and making friends and conversation because we can all do that. And then yeah there are little ways to then turn it into spiritual conversations. I think I love that ah that that that wisdom there, Matt, that I think sometimes we can feel that you know our expertise level has to be sort of so high before we can even engage. And as you say, just just being friendly and and showing those kind of interests. well but On that very note then, um what would you say, have you got any advice around things like hospitality then? Because we've got Muslim friends, particularly Muslim neighbors. I personally think there's huge opportunities in and then finding ways to invite people you know into your home or to have time around coffee or
00:10:18
Speaker
or food together. Have you found that too? Is hospitality a ah good tool to be using with
Hospitality as a Connection Tool
00:10:23
Speaker
Muslims? Definitely. Yeah. In many Eastern cultures, hospitality is so important and they want to see something about your life and your actions as well as your words. So yeah, hand in hand, and this is another sort of framework we use. We talk about truth encounters, power encounters, and love encounters. and the three need to be working together. So hospitality would fall under love encounters. You know, caring about people, inviting them into your homes is massive. Now, you might not invite them in for a a big dinner where you're going to serve meat because you might be concerned, oh, is it halal? Or they might be concerned, but very easy to invite them in for coffee, you know, biscuits, things like that. Or, you know, during lockdown, many, many times, you know, I'd go for a walk with them my neighbor and say, hey, do you want to go for a walk and chat? um So things like that. Or, yeah, just simple things.
00:11:12
Speaker
like hospitality is so important. So absolutely, you've probably found exactly the same. Yeah. And I love your points about the the meat because I think early on in some of my encounters with Muslims, you know, a bit nervous around that. And and as you say, you can either go for the the lower the lower key thing. The other thing I found you got a couple of things you can do is if you were in an area where there are Muslim cafes and things, then then then take your friend out for lunch, just go to the local you know Indian restaurant or or wherever, and then you don't need to worry because it's run by Muslims. Exactly. Or if all else fails, so go vegetarian. that's that's often ah and It was really interesting, that that that events week, the the international dinners I ah described at that university, there was a lot of veggie food sloshing around because I think the Christian Union went for, that way we're going to be fine. We'll be fine with any Hindus who come in, we'll be fine with any Muslims who come in. yeah just through the which is the We'll do the veggies and it's fine. but so and And some of it's just being aware. Just take some biscuits next door. If you know it's Ramadan or you know there's an Eid coming up or something, just be a little bit aware and a little bit intentional. Just take some cookies around, take some chocolates around, say, oh, I hear it's your special Eid. We just wanted to bring your present. And they love to host you. So that's that's a time that you might well be invited in.
00:12:19
Speaker
And by the way, on the whole um you know on the whole sort of Eden and Ramadan and those things, I mean, if you know if you want to engage Muslims, I found um matt you know being being aware of what what's going on and in their in in their world. And i found I've used Ramadan as a conversation starter. Sometimes a few years ago, you know I was in a taxi, it was Ramadan, got changed to taxi driver. It was a hot day. So I just said, gosh, it must be quite tough you know driving taxi you know during Ramadan. And his face lit up. He goes, oh, you know a bit about Islam. And I went, yes, I know a bit about you guys. and I know that right now youre you're fasting. And I appreciate that's not easy when the sun is beating down. And that was that was our connector. So once you've made those connections, um Matt, once once someone's taken that interest and and begun to reach out, to like what are some next steps?
Transitioning to Spiritual Conversations
00:13:03
Speaker
How might you but kind of build on those um those developing friendships and perhaps you know nudge things in ah in a sort of spiritual conversation direction? Are there any sort of ah advice or
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. like um You know, we've we've mentioned listening is so important to them and who they are. So sometimes I like to talk about storytelling and parables because, um you know, again, Eastern cultures, that's how they think and they often work. um And, you know, East West is a very strange thing. We can't exactly talk about what is East and what is West. But if we're talking about perhaps the Middle East or Asian cultures, They love stories, and listening to their story is important. Sharing something of your story, dropping in, you know, this is where fishing comes in. You just drop in a little spiritual comment. We don't want to be religiously obnoxious, but we do want to be spiritually conspicuous. And so just dropping in a little phrase about, oh, God bless you, that that's wonderful, or praise be to God, or, you know, it sounds a bit odd in our Western church cultures to use phrases sometimes, not not all types of church.
00:14:04
Speaker
But dropping in little comments that they think, oh, you're a man of faith. Oh, you pray. What you fast as well. So joining, you know, a mention about Ramadan to when I fast, I find it, you know, easy to do this or harder to do that. Yeah. Showing some interest in them, but also just dropping in the fact that you're a person of faith to suddenly that will surprised them. yeah I remember sitting on a bus at the Qatar World Cup, actually. And again, being intentional, we we all split up. There was a group of us and we said, let's not sit together. Let's go split up one by one and just go sit with people on the bus. And I got sitting next to a Saudi guy.
00:14:41
Speaker
And i I pulled him over to sit next to me and said, hey, tell me about yourself. I know very little about Saudi Arabia. Always good to be humble about what you don't know, not just what you do you know. And as we got talking, I started, we got into spiritual conversations as I asked him about faith. And he was amazed at one, I showed interest in his faith to that I had something to say, and I knew something about Islam, like you also just mentioned showing an interest in Ramadan. um But at the end of the conversation, he said, I didn't know people like you existed out there. So yeah, moving it from friendliness to spiritual conversation to then what I want to leave him with is an interest in the Word of God. Like you mentioned that guy who said, what is the Bible?
00:15:24
Speaker
they don't know that the Bible is accessible often, let alone what it is. And so some, ah ah I tend to carry little things in my pocket, a little business card sized thing. And I might leave someone, especially in the UK with a little business card, which has a few links or QR codes to some brilliant animations about ah four Muslim guys chatting on a bus about life and faith that we've produced. But um yeah, there are many things you could or just put get them to pull up their phone and say, have you seen this website before? Or have you ever heard the story of the father and the two sons? So I moved from listening to their story to something about my story into something of God's story. And that's key. I think we want them to get into the word because that's when God can speak to them. We don't have all the clever answers and the clever apologetics half the time. I always think, Oh, why didn't I say that?
00:16:10
Speaker
I should have said this, that would have been cleverer. But then if you've left them with something, an interest in the word, or you know what, the Bible is on your phone and you just show them it and you show them it's in Arabic, it's in Urdu, then you just have left them with something. If they're spiritually hungry, they can go away and follow that up themselves. On that point, by the way, just to reinforce that, I had an you know amazing conversation a couple, two or three years ago with ah with a Saudi, actually, student and in in the UK, and we got talking, and very, very open. Never read the Bible. And and he essentially said, well, my I would struggle. My English is not so good. And I said, well, you know, the Bible is available in Arabic. He went, wait, really?
00:16:46
Speaker
And I started by saying, I say, well, let's see if I can get you a copy. And then things my friend who was with me, he was like more switched on than me. He was like, hang on, have you got a phone? When y'all got a phone, he went, what would you like me to show you where to get the Bible in Arabic on your phone? He went, no, really? And we walked him through and his face was just beamed. And again, I think sometimes we can expect the opposition and there are Muslims who will push back, but I think you're right. Some are just, yeah. And on that note, in a country like Saudi or Qatar or sometimes in Pakistan, you don't want to be giving them a physical thing just on the bus. You could get into a bit of trouble like that. I mean, sometimes I'll do it, sometimes I won't, depends on the situation.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, if you're just showing them something on their phone, that you haven't given out things, you're not distributing literature. So that that is great. And just on that note, actually, last week, I was very fortunate enough, I was just doing a little bit of volunteer chaplaincy at a prison. And um yeah, I went off to go find you know some of the Muslim guys. And of course, I was looking for Pakistanis, but I ended up coming across this Iraqi guy. And we we got into a conversation. He saw me praying for somebody else in the corridor, and he came up and said, yeah, let's go chat. And he took me up to the mosque, and I sat in the mosque in inside the prison with him. It's more like a prayer room than a mosque. We sat on the floor and talked for an hour. And when I mentioned the torat, something about, I don't know, Moses or David, and and I mentioned the torat and the zabur, he said, oh, I've always wanted to read the torat. I said, well, yeah, let me see if I could
00:18:15
Speaker
get one for you in Arabic. And it so happened in the chaplaincy. They had lots of Bibles. And so by the end of just an hour of meeting this guy, I was able to find an Arabic Bible, take it to his cell and give it to him. He was so happy. You know, he just hugged me and said, thank you so much. The other thing, by the way, this also connects, I think, and then there's a couple of other things I want to ask you. It's also connects to the hospitality piece. I had ah had a a friend of mine who is a ah missionary to Muslims in the in North of England for many years. And what what Keith would often do is you know build the relationships, hospitality, and then look for an opportunity, um sometimes around Christmas, actually, because Muslims don't celebrate it, but we do, and we can lean into that and and say, you know, to your Muslim friend, I really wanted to give you a gift. um And I thought about what to give you. And then I thought, well, the most precious thing I could give you is the is the scriptures, which, you know, very, very sacred to me. So I've got you an Arabic copy of, you know, the gospels, the angel, whatever. Now that you need to pick the right opportunity, but actually, gift giving is very important in Muslim culture, too. So you can look for opportunities to, you know, and to really be clear about why you're why why you're doing it. And I'm giving it to you so you know the truth. getting to you because I wanted to give you a gift. This is this this is the the most precious thing to me. Yeah. And what I like about that and and some of my own insecurities are that, oh, I don't think I'm a very good evangelist. i don't I don't have stories of dozens and dozens of Muslims coming to faith. I mean, those stories are out there now and in the last 20 years, hundreds and thousands of Muslims around the world are coming to faith. you know Our frontiers teams out there come back with incredible stories. But where I was in North Pakistan, there was only one or two or three or four who'd come to faith. And I don't have lots of stories like that. but So I might doubt myself as an evangelist, but I can make a friend and I can give a gift. So that's so great for anyone. yeah
00:19:58
Speaker
And the other thing, by the way, and this links to other other of episodes of Peptalk and other Solas resources for folks listening, is that I think one of the things we often bang on about it at Solas is that if you if you grab any Christian and you say to them, tell me about the people who are involved in you coming to faith. There's usually more than one. yeah In other words, it's very rare that somebody meets one Christian and then God uses them to com become a believer. So those contact points, Matt, that you have, and for others listening here, make I'm not a very good evangelist yet, but your job might just be to have them go away going, oh, I really enjoyed talking to a Christian. And then three months down the line, someone else comes into their life and and so on. So, you know, evangelism is a team sport, I think. Exactly. And it requires patience. Yeah. A couple of things I wanted to talk to you about in our remaining four and a half minutes. um let' We've talked about scriptures and and friendships. um What's the place for prayer in
The Role of Prayer
00:20:50
Speaker
this? You talked about, idiot there you are in the prison doing a chaplaincy thing, praying with somebody. um Is there a role for that in in in reaching Muslim friends? or Should we look for opportunities to offer to pray? and Perhaps even how should we pray for them when we haven't asked them, but we're just praying for our neighbors. Are there all the particular things we can be praying for and with Muslims?
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah, we we talk a lot in frontiers about extraordinary prayer and the importance of having people praying for us, um even going out, not just one one one person at a time, but going with others so one can be praying while one is talking. But we always like to offer prayer because sometimes people don't want a big academic argument or a mental debate. They just they want to be touched in their spirit, or that's what God will do to bring them the next step. So sometimes I mean, I've asked dozens and dozens and dozens of Muslims over the years, can I pray for you? And I can't think of anyone that said, no, I don't want to be prayed for. Maybe one out of a hundred will say, no, thanks. But almost always they'll say, yes, please, please pray for me, whether it's a sickness and illness. And and that's so important. You know, the the apostles
00:21:53
Speaker
in Acts 4 said, and now Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with complete boldness. So there's the sort of truth encounter as you stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant, Jesus. There's a lot that we can't do. And so praying for someone, God may touch their heart, open their eyes, heal their bodies in some way. So yeah, definitely be encouraged to do that, even if you don't see anything happen in that moment. Yeah. The other thing I've sometimes seen over the years too, is that when you, if you have the privilege of praying with a Muslim, the way that we pray can be a bit of a witness to contact, you know, praying to God as like the ability we have to to come to God as as our heavenly Father, rather than his formal relationship. So even the way you pray can be a witness, right?
00:22:37
Speaker
That's true. Yeah, that's right. They have a concept of dua, which is sort of simple um heartfelt prayers, I suppose, but they are much more used to ritual prayers and not that many will. will and and And even if they have dua, which is personal prayers, that would be in their prayer times. They would pray personally to Allah, but they would, I don't think you'd ever see a Muslim lay hands on another Muslim and pray for them personally. So that really speaks to them of care and love and a different way of praying. Yeah. And then first the the the last thing i I was thinking when you mentioned earlier, I thought I've got to talk to Matt
Journey to Truth Animations
00:23:12
Speaker
about this. You mentioned in passing this animation series resource that that ah the Frontiers have put together. When you know I chatted a few months ago, you you talked to me at a great length about this and it was i like and it's and it's a wonderful resource. So what is this great animated series that that Frontiers have worked on and how is that you know one tool in in in reaching our Muslim friends? Yes. and and Definitely. I do think of evangelism with Muslims as a quiver full of arrows, and you just draw on different arrows at different times. um so This one I love. It's called the journey to truth animations. um and Yes. so We had a worker in the Middle East who day after day was in taxis, just like you were saying, and got into conversation after conversation. and The Muslim taxi drivers would always say the same things. yo You believe in three gods. or
00:23:57
Speaker
No, your Bible is corrupted. We can't read that. yeah The classic Muslim objections. And this worker just thought, I need to make a resource which will speak to all the classic Muslim objections to the Christian faith so I can give them something because I often only have two minutes and I can't go through all these hugely important topics and quite you know tough to answer. So he made this brilliant resource where he made these animated videos, spent a lot of money on them, raised a lot of money to make them, and they're brilliant. there're They're about four young Muslim guys on a bus, best friends, chatting about life and faith, joking. There's a lot of humor in it, a bit of banter. One of the guys is ah is a mullah or a sheikh, and he's really strict and serious and keeps telling them off and saying, oh, why are you talking about stories from the Bible? Where did you get this from? And he's getting a bit angry with his other friends.
00:24:46
Speaker
And it becomes apparent that one of the four guys is a secret believer in Jesus because he's leading the others gently, gently into truth and into studying the scriptures with him. And they get into Bible studies together and eventually, you know, you see some of them coming to faith and it's very powerful. So it's kind of a great ah but apologetic resource to give to Muslims. You can give one around Christmas or one around Easter because it covers the cross and it covers you know, the birth of Jesus and so on, the whole story of God, actually. um But I just find it so useful, yeah, just to hand out, ah whether on a little card or to open the website and show them, um or just to send by WhatsApp a little, hey, have you checked out this little six minute video? And I just call them YouTube videos. It's a very easy resource to hand out.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I guess we could put a link to that into the show notes if you want to yeah please check that out. And on that note, Matt, has um it's been an amazing kind of conversation. Thank you for being
Exploring Frontiers Resources
00:25:40
Speaker
with us. But in terms of people who want to go further into this, how can people find out more about about Frontiers, what you folks are doing, pray for you, but also you know some of the resources that you've mentioned? Is there ah is there a website that we could have people could go and take a look at? Yeah, absolutely. So our website is www.frontiers dot.org.uk. There's lots there. If you want to email me personally, please do. We'll put that perhaps in the show notes, matt.frontiers.org.uk, because I have stacks of resources for churches, for reading, um what doing discipleship once Muslims have come to Christ, all sorts of things we can help you with. I've got all sorts of apps we haven't mentioned today that You can study the scriptures with them on, and do discipple discovery Bible studies. God Tools is a great app as well, talking about shame and honor, fear and power, guilt and innocence, paradigms of sharing the gospel. um And perhaps the last thing, like if I can shamelessly plug my own podcast, Raw Mission, RAW, Raw Mission by Frontiers UK, where I interview people who work with Muslims around the world and hear their stories of yeah seeing Muslims come to Christ or just persevering um out in some really tough places where you know a third of the world's never had the gospel for the first time, so that's where they're out working pretty and they've got some good stories.
00:26:54
Speaker
Wonderful. Well, that's, um Matt, this has been ah an amazing conversation. So um thank you for taking the time to be with us today. And I hope everyone listening has just found that an encouragement to really just encourage you ah to look at the Muslims that God brings across your path and then ah pray about what you can do. but so But Matt, thank you once again. Great. Thanks, Andy. Thanks for having me on. Brilliant. And we'll be back in two weeks time with another episode of Pep Talk and another guest. So look forward to catch you then. Bye for now. are