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What happens when non-religious people try praying?
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“Why don’t we write a prayer guide for people who aren’t religious and who don’t do church?”
If you could inspire people across the country to pray, what would be the result? In this episode, we hear from David Hill, who runs a ministry that is doing just that. For many this has led to unexpected and profound experiences of God – moments of revelation and transformation. How have so many people found a deeper connection to God in this way? Tune in as we explore the ways in which the power of prayer is breaking down barriers and leading to extraordinary spiritual breakthroughs. Could a simple invitation to pray be the first step for someone near you to experience God?
Try praying yourself at trypraying.org or find campaign resources at do.trypraying.org
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Transcript
Introduction to Pep Talk Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to a new episode of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast from Solus. I'm Gavin Matthews, and I'm joined today by a new presenter who's in fact the newest member of staff at Solus, Dr. Simon Wenham. Simon, how are you?
00:00:24
Speaker
Very well, thank you. Very glad to be here. Thank you. Excellent. Now, Simon comes from a famous family of theological Wenoms that you may have heard of. But Simon must have been a big disappointment because you're actually a historian, aren't you? Was this a disappointment to your illustrious academic for family?
00:00:39
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Well, thank you. i'm um Yes, I have a ah history doctorate rather than a theology one. So I'm sorry for yeah if I'm letting the family down. But so hopefully I've got some things to say. But sir unfortunately, I'm not a theologian. Yes.
00:00:52
Speaker
ah Simon runs all the operations for Solas and has been in post. How many months now, Simon, you've been doing the ops for us? Nearly a year. So, yeah, it's gone very quickly, though. It has. and But Simon also does lots of comms and things. It's really great to have you with us on the podcast.
Origins and Purpose of Try Praying
00:01:07
Speaker
We also, as ever on Pep Talk, have a guest with us today. And I'd love to welcome but David Hill. David, how are you? Hi. Nice to be with you today. And where are you dialing into us today from?
00:01:18
Speaker
So I live in Edinburgh. Yeah. Yeah. But that that is not an Edinburgh accent that I hear coming down the line. you're You're clearly not an Edinburgh native, although I think the first time I met you was in a cafe in Kinross.
00:01:30
Speaker
So where where are you originally from? You're very discerning. I'm a native Yorkshireman. i don't think I have a strong Yorkshire accent. i think it's because I've lived in various places. But I'm from from Yorkshire, from near Hull, and I've been living in Scotland for, well, decades now.
00:01:49
Speaker
right So it's morphed your accent a little bit. Now, people may not have heard of you, but they will have heard of the ministry that's most closely associated with your name, Try Praying. They may have seen, you know, big green banners outside churches or even on the back of buses.
00:02:02
Speaker
So for for people that don't know, Try praying. what What is your ministry? And this is the two-minute version, not the hour-long version.
00:02:12
Speaker
By praying, is it's um it's an invitation for people to experience the kindness of God. And but the heart of it is based around an evangelistic booklet, an evangelistic prayer guide.
00:02:24
Speaker
um And it's a project for churches, and it's a multi-church project for groups of churches in towns and cities and so on. Obviously, Christians will be very aware of of the need to pray. I'd love to know um how your whole ministry came about. So what what what was behind trying to get more people to try praying? I wondered if you could say a little bit about the sort of origins of it.
00:02:47
Speaker
Well, it started by surprise, really. It was a thing another thing intended at all. But I and just heard of somebody who'd become a Christian, ah humanly speaking, because she'd been given a 40-day prayer guide.
00:02:58
Speaker
And I thought, well, that's absolutely wonderful, but I would never give a 40-day prayer guide to a non-Christian. And it was just a little light bulb moment. but Why don't we write a prayer guide? the people who aren't religious and who don't do church, but which is accessible, it's easy to read, it's got stories of answer prayer, and over, as it happens, a seven-day period, it actually explains the gospel. So they run a high risk of becoming a Christian if they use it.
00:03:26
Speaker
so So that was the idea. That's where it started. And um it took a few months for me to doodle out some ideas and get the the idea um designed and printed and
Impact and Reactions to Try Praying
00:03:38
Speaker
so on. But then it it came into existence like that. And how long ago was that when the the first idea sort of rooted in your mind? Was this 10 years ago? or It was about 16 years ago when when I had the idea. And the project as such has been rolling for 15 years now.
00:03:54
Speaker
I should tell you, just for interest, a couple of things that happened right at this right at the the very early days. um Because um I went to see a designer in in Edinburgh, and there had been an earlier edition of the booklet.
00:04:09
Speaker
and for And for your listeners, I'm now holding up the booklet, by the way. you can... But you can't see this booklet, but I'm holding it up. But i I put the earlier edition on the table of this Christian designer, Jane, and I said, look, the point of this is it's for people who aren't religious and don't do church.
00:04:27
Speaker
and And she got it. But what happened is freeze-framed in my memory because her eyes filled with tears and she said, this is huge. And I thought on the inside, I thought, it's only a booklet. you know i don't know what she was she was on about.
00:04:43
Speaker
So that was one thing that happened. And then another thing, a few weeks later, i was invited to go and speak at the parliamentary prayer group in um Edinburgh ah that meets and prays for Holyrood every week that it's sitting.
00:04:56
Speaker
And so i went along, shared some stories, gave them all a try praying booklet and and they prayed. And You can just use your imagination here, but they're not quiet prayers.
00:05:07
Speaker
and So ah they're very affirming, very encouraging. But there was ah there was a woman visiting there um from South Africa, I think. But she held up the booklet and she said, I am bursting with prophecy about this booklet.
00:05:24
Speaker
This booklet is for the nation. And I thought, if internally, I had exactly the same reaction. I thought, it's only a book club. Why are people getting so excited? and And then she changed what she said.
00:05:36
Speaker
And she said, no, actually, it's for the nations, plural. And at that point, I was completely dumbfounded. And I've been dumbfounded for the last 15 years.
00:05:47
Speaker
But it has grown and grown. It's just and unbelievable. um you know It's now been translated into different languages. There's a million over a million booklets been printed.
00:05:59
Speaker
um It's being visible across lots of places um and stories are coming in. so i am and She was right and I was wrong.
00:06:08
Speaker
and And so obviously Christians, we all know about the importance of praying. was wondering if you could say more about how this has affected people outside of the church. are Are you finding that people are trying praying?
00:06:20
Speaker
And I wondered if you have any ah stories of that that you can share with us. I've seen on your website ah lots of interesting stories from different people, but I wondered if you could perhaps ah say ah ah one or two that have particularly caught your attention. I'm sure there are many though.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah, we do have rafts of stories. And I should say, just for for realism, that it is not every time that Try Praying booklet is passed across to a non-Christian that they have remarkable stories. But um we have some amazing stories. So so Dot um it was saying goodbye to her brother at Christmas down at Waverley Station here in Edinburgh.
00:06:56
Speaker
And he wasn't a Christian. And she slipped a Try Praying booklet into his pocket. And I still don't know whether ah she had permission to do that or whether she just did it secretly. But he phoned her about five days later. He was working his way through the booklet and he got to day five and day six. And he phoned her and he said, I think I've just become a Christian.
00:07:20
Speaker
And so she talked it through with him. And she's absolutely delighted that he had become a Christian. um Michelle was a young mother in Belfast, and she was and driving away from a consultation at the GP in tears, as it happened, for whatever happened at the consultation.
00:07:40
Speaker
But as she was driving, she heard something say to her, look left. So she looked left and there was a tri-paying banner on a church.
00:07:53
Speaker
And she said it was that that actually began her journey back to faith and back into into church activities. Sandra um grew up in a Baptist church and was a rebel. She never became Christian.
00:08:06
Speaker
i think on her own admission, I think she was quite an awkward person ah in her church life. And anyway, time moved on. Amazingly, somebody had been praying for her for years and years and years, but time moved on. And um one day she thought, i I just need to get this situation sorted in life about God. And so she prayed.
00:08:28
Speaker
And she said, God, give me a sign. I just need to know that you're real. Later that day, she was driving along Dunbarton Road in Glasgow, and she got stuck behind, would you believe, a bus with a Try Praying advert on the back of it.
00:08:43
Speaker
And it was that was that was the sign for her. And she went back home and prayed to receive Christ that night. So we got we do have lots and lots of stories like this. oh yeah and You can find out loads more of those stories on the Try Praying website.
00:08:57
Speaker
That's great. as It's wonderful to to hear
Prayer and Expectations: A Balancing Act
00:09:00
Speaker
all of those things. I think what's unique about what you're doing is we've we've had lots of podcasts in which people have talked about praying for the lost. You're encouraging the lost to pray, which is quite a different thing altogether. That's really, really wonderful.
00:09:12
Speaker
When you give your booklet to people, how do they respond? do Do people act quizzically? Are they puzzled? Are they intrigued? Are they interested? Do people throw it back at you? Or do you think there's a general or maybe an increasing willingness in the UK today to people say,
00:09:27
Speaker
Maybe there is a God. How do you read that at the moment? Well, it's as varied as the people that you're giving booklets to, obviously. But I think there's generally an openness to something like this or a curiosity about it.
00:09:40
Speaker
When I pass the book over to somebody, I say, look, this is for people who aren't religious and don't do church. And like us not, people will be quite pleasantly surprised and quite relieved, actually.
00:09:53
Speaker
And the and they said some people said to me, how did you know but that was me? I said, well, there's a lot of you about. and So, yeah, I think it's um but it's an accessible thing. It's a very it's a very easy thing to to give away to people and people do respond. I think prayer, yeah most people would probably not wash up in church on a Sunday, but a lot of people will pray.
00:10:17
Speaker
And according to statistics, there's 27 million people in the UK would admit to praying. So that's a lot. um So, yeah. Wonderful. As you say, that that's very high, interesting figure, isn't it? And that is very encouraging, isn't it, for Christians that so many people pray. i suppose i was wondering how you navigate, obviously prayer is a very deep subject, how you navigate obviously offering the gospel of God's graciousness, goodness and nearness, but then how you balance that with not giving the impression that, you know, reducing the gospel to a sort of Santa-shaped God where ah God will just give us what we what we always ask for. I know prayer is a deep and subject. i was wondering if you have any comments about that, about, in a sense, managing expectations, ah even though, as you say, there are ah many wonderful examples of people having prayer answers.
00:11:07
Speaker
ah We have a little section at the back of the Try Praying booklet that talks about unanswered prayer and on suffering as well. it's ah It's an interesting question, though, to try and get the balance right on that. I you read the Gospels and you see this kind of remarkable openness from Jesus.
00:11:24
Speaker
ah You know, ask and you'll receive and just the encouragement. let Go for it. Go for it. and Miracles happen. ah And sometimes life isn't quite like that. um So we have to kind of strike the right balance, but still be absolutely faithful to the kind of openness and the ah the miracle working God that we're communicating with when we so when we pray.
00:11:46
Speaker
Hi, it's Gavin from Solas here. I hope you don't mind if I just interrupt this program for a couple of seconds to tell you that on the Solas website, there's loads more information about sharing your faith, very much in tune with the sort of thing that you'll hear on the Pep Talk podcast.
00:11:58
Speaker
There's articles, there's videos, there's other podcasts. There's any number of resources on there to help you address difficult questions, share your faith at work or with neighbors or friends. There's a wealth to explore. Come over and have a look at solas-cpc.org and see what you can find. And now, back to the program.
Try Praying's Marketing Success
00:12:20
Speaker
Now, last time I met you, I think we were in a cafe in Edinburgh. What you said at the time was, we're about to launch a big try praying campaign, you know, with with bus adverts and billboards and all sorts of publicity. But the comment you said at the time was, we've got a huge bill to pay. We've no idea how we're going to pay yet, but we're praying that God will provide.
00:12:39
Speaker
We prayed with you. Now, what happened? Did God answer those prayers? Have you managed to launch the campaign? And How do you pay for this this kind of work? As we speak, there are 420 buses trundling around across the whole of Scotland ah with try-praying adverts on them and 22 digital boards in various places around Scotland.
00:13:02
Speaker
And it's just a baffling miracle to me every year because we have done this for 15 years now. And people have given, um we pray, people have given, churches have given, and there's been enough money to have a strong advertising campaign.
00:13:18
Speaker
And I tell you, it really is a strong advertising campaign. um According to statistics, the research which we did, we have over 50% brand awareness of try praying in Scotland.
00:13:31
Speaker
um Advertisers would give their eye teeth to get 5%, and we're sitting on over 50% brand awareness. So it is it is known. I think that's one of the one of the things that's really encouraging, that...
00:13:45
Speaker
um It's something that churches can engage with and it's out in the out in the ether, as it were. it's it's in it's in the ah It's in the public space and that helps people to to get involved and to use the witnessing opportunities that come.
00:13:59
Speaker
And churches can often just do this together. There are towns or cities where groups of churches or lots of churches have all worked together with Try Praying. And so it's a kind of, there's there's a momentum in a town because of that. Banners on many different churches, different denominations, that visibility really helps in the whole thing as well.
Utilizing Try Praying in Churches
00:14:20
Speaker
yeah well Thank you. It's amazing to hear just how how many buses are out there and and billboards. And as you say, that brand awareness is is is incredible. I was wondering if you could say you mentioned churches. and Can you say a little bit more about how you help ah churches witness sort of what what are the processes?
00:14:38
Speaker
um You've obviously mentioned ah friend of yours planting it on someone else, but I assume this ah you have processes. and ah yeah What can you say a little bit more about sort of what sorts of ah things you're encouraging churches to do?
00:14:51
Speaker
when the booklet was When the first edition of the booklet was about to be printed, felt a nudge from the Lord, of which I only have a few.
00:15:03
Speaker
But um it was, you need to work out how this is going to be used. because what the church collectively does not need is another resource on prayer. There are thousands of them.
00:15:14
Speaker
And so it was just a very simple thing. it took Two minutes on the back of an envelope, it was a project for a church. And it was it's this, one week, everybody in a congregation gets a copy of the Try and Praying booklet.
00:15:26
Speaker
And they're all encouraged to use it yourselves. You know, this isn't from the front. This isn't isn't it really for you. um for your non-Christian friends and neighbors. And you've all got wonderful prayer lives anyway, haven't you?
00:15:38
Speaker
Aha. So you can, however it's presented, but everybody gets a copy one week. And then the following week um from the front, okay, we've been using this Try a Praying booklet this last week.
00:15:50
Speaker
ah This week, we're going to all pray for a God-given opportunity to give this to somebody. And here is your evangelism training course in one sentence, because this is what you say when you pass the booklet over to a friend and the moment's right.
00:16:05
Speaker
You simply say, hey, why don't you try praying for a week and see what happens in your life? So that's our evangelism training course, one sentence. And the whole congregation can be involved in that. And it's use it and lose it. It's so simple.
00:16:18
Speaker
You know, everybody uses it and then they lose it. They pray for the opportunity. And or at least some of them, some of them do that. But I think it's that simplicity which has enabled so many churches to engage in this.
00:16:30
Speaker
It doesn't take a long time. You don't have to have long preparation sessions. You don't have to get the catering committee involved. It's just simply two Sundays, five minutes on two Sundays, use it one week and then lose it the next.
00:16:44
Speaker
And how can Try Praying be sort of integrated into the life of the church as a whole? If someone listened to this as a pastor and thinking, well, I know I want to push evangelism in my church, and we're doing maybe alpha or door-to-door work or youth work.
00:16:56
Speaker
How can Try Praying in your ministry and the resources you do and the training you do, how can that feed into the life of a whole church? What what can you add? And, you know, for pastors listening to this, why should he go to Try Praying and pick up your stuff?
00:17:09
Speaker
What can that help him do in terms of the integrated life of a church as a whole? Yeah. Well, apart from the the simplicity of the project of use it and lose it, there are lots of other variations um on it as well. um So, I mean, there was a smart-aleck Church of Scotland minister who came up with the idea of a perspex box outside the church on the railings next to a tri-praying banner, and with tri-praying booklets inside it.
00:17:34
Speaker
so And but that's what happens. you know There's lots of churches are getting perspex boxes. i said i used you know I signed up to tell people about Jesus, but now I sell Perspex boxes to churches. so but so we have one in our church.
00:17:50
Speaker
ah It can be incorporated in alpha courses, ah your week five on the topic of prayer. um It can be used prior to alpha courses, actually, to have a conversation with your friends of a spiritual nature and then invite them to an alpha course.
00:18:05
Speaker
um It's used in quite a few places with street work, people going out onto streets and sharing their faith and offering to pray with people. And, you know, here's here's a booklet and so on Lots of different variations that can be used. It's um limited only by the creativity of the church or ourselves. so and And so, that yeah, it's a fantastic idea and concept. like I suppose one thing a lot of people worry about is obviously how you do evangelism, feeling nervous about sort of giving something to someone or saying something. But is your...
00:18:38
Speaker
is has your response been very good? Because it's just quite an
Personal Stories and Wider Reach
00:18:42
Speaker
easy thing to do. Just say, have a look at this. And there's no sort of um preaching that goes with it. Just try it out. And ah so so I was wondering how receptive people have been to this, because it made me think a little bit about Have you ever wondered which Solas produces, which is actually I found it very easy just to give to people because actually in a sense that the it is doing the work for you. And it and certainly if you feel a little worried about giving people something, it's it's actually something that helps you do it. and and And yeah, then you can see what happens from that.
00:19:12
Speaker
Well, let me answer the question with a story. it's my It's my fisherman's story, which I i like to tell. um Claire and I were up on holiday in the far northwest of Scotland in Loch Inver.
00:19:25
Speaker
And um it's a fishing port. And I got a takeaway coffee one morning and walked down to the harbour and wandered around the harbour. And there were a couple of fishermen there actually um on the harbour mending their nets.
00:19:41
Speaker
And I thought, well, this is rather biblical. So I said, come follow me. No, I didn't. Didn't say that's a joke. But we um we just had a conversation about fishing for about 10 minutes. Very obvious questions. What kind of fish do you fish? And how often do you go out? And um what do you think about Brexit? That got them going.
00:20:00
Speaker
um So 10 minutes discussion about fishing. And then they then it switched. And they said, well, what do you do? And for me, that's an in. and So I said, well, I'm involved in this thing called Try Praying.
00:20:12
Speaker
And that led into probably about another 10 minutes or so. Very easy, unforced conversation. um I shared how I'd become a Christian at university, persuaded through evidence and then trusting Christ. And um and that shared about Try Praying. you know it It was all very...
00:20:29
Speaker
comfortable as it were. um And you won't be surprised that at the end of the time i pulled out a try praying book and I said, that catchphrase, why don't you try praying for a week and see what happens in your life?
00:20:40
Speaker
And they were very happy to have it. So that was my little witnessing opportunity, which went out into the ether. And you never really know what happens But in this case, we did, because three weeks later, there was an email in our office from somebody from Thurso, which is far top right.
00:20:59
Speaker
um And um ah we two he wanted 10 tri-praying booklets. So we toed phoned with him. How had you heard about tri-praying? He said, well, my son is a fisherman, and he fishes out of Loch Inver.
00:21:11
Speaker
And he met this person who gave him a try praying booklet. And he used it and found it really helpful. And he passed it on to me. And I um used it and engaged with it. And it's changed my attitude. And I want 10 more copies now to give to my friends and family.
00:21:26
Speaker
to That's fantastic. That was so encouraging that because the whole thing came full circle and we heard that. um But to that was just a you know a lovely a lovely story. It's my fisherman's story, but it's easy to give. That's the thing. It's it's very easy. There's so many, not every situation, of course, but so many situations you can very, very simply a person, you know, have you ever tried praying? um And they will say, well, you know, used to, I gave it up when the cat died or whatever. And,
00:21:57
Speaker
and say, well, look, I've been using this booklet. I've found it really helpful. Why don't you try praying for a week and see what happens?
Accessing Try Praying Resources
00:22:03
Speaker
Final question then is, where could people go to find all those stories that you've mentioned? Some of those are on the web. Where can they get the try praying booklet, the banners, even the perspex boxes that you've mentioned? Where could people go to find all of this stuff?
00:22:16
Speaker
We have two websites and because we have two audiences. The one website is trypraying.org, and that is for the inquirers, the people that might want to just generally inquire about what Try Praying about because they've seen a banner or a bus or whatever.
00:22:32
Speaker
The other audience is for Christians and churches, and that is do trypraying.org, D-O dot do trypraying.org. And that's where you can get all the stuff and all the resources and so on and some of the videos and and the like.
00:22:47
Speaker
Fantastic. You can go there and get all your booklets. you can get your perspex boxes, your banners for outside your churches, all there. We will put the links to both of those yeah URLs that David has mentioned into the show notes at the bottom. So you can click directly through underneath this program through to those links.
00:23:01
Speaker
Thank you
Conclusion and Encouragement
00:23:02
Speaker
so much, David. That was fantastic. That was helpful and encouraging. Do pray that people will pick up on those resources and use them and get people out and around the country praying and trying praying and encountering God who Paul says, is not far from each one of us.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I love that phrase in Acts where he says, the God who is not far from each one of us, the God who people can reach out to through prayer. Thank you, Simon, for joining us on your first pep talk.
00:23:26
Speaker
Were you happy with that? Did you enjoy this? I very much enjoyed it. And I actually just love hearing the stories. And as you say, the sort of getting the concept of people praying for ministry and then just seeing what God does with it. It's just very exciting and very encouraging. So yeah, thank you so much.
00:23:39
Speaker
Wonderful. Thank you, Simon. Thank you, David. Thank you. We will be back in two weeks' time with another guest talking about sharing the gospel of Christ in a world that needs him. See you in a fortnight. Thank you, and goodbye.