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Faith on the Front Foot: Connecting with contemporary culture
25 Plays1 hour ago
“Many [Christians] know what they believe, but they just think ‘I can’t share that in the workplace. I can’t share that in a friendship. I don’t want to get into a fight… But if you listen to people talking on the street, or in the workplace, most people aren’t afraid to share their opinions.”
In a world that often feels fragmented and uncertain, many are searching for purpose and meaning. At the same time, Christians often feel that they are on the ‘back foot’, when it comes to how the church is viewed by wider society. In this episode of PEP Talk, Dr Paul Coulter calls us to step forward with confidence, offering a transforming vision of an identity rooted in Christ. By engaging with contemporary culture, he shares how we can meet the challenges of today with a bold faith that provides meaning, identity and hope – and how we can share that message with those around us.
Our Guest: Paul Coulter's day job is as Head of Ministry Operations for Living Leadership, which seeks to support Christian leaders and their families to live in Christ joyfully and serve Him faithfully. Paul has worked as a medical doctor, a cross-cultural pastor and a lecturer in practical theology. He continues to teach ethics and other subjects in theological colleges. Paul holds primary degrees in medical genetics and medicine, an MA and PhD in theology, and a post-graduate certificate in higher education teaching. Paul lives in Lisburn with his wife, Gar-Ling, and their two children. In his spare time he enjoys cycling, walking and reading historical novels.
Centre for Christianity in Society: www.christianityinsociety.org
Personal website: www.paulcoulter.net
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Transcript
Introduction to Pep Talk Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Well, hello everybody and welcome to another edition of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast from Solas. Every fortnight we're here talking about sharing the gospel of Christ with a world that needs hope and needs to know him. And we always have excellent guests on Pep Talk, so it's the strength of the show, the people that come on with their stories, their ministry and their expertise. And today is no exception.
00:00:28
Speaker
And my partner in crime i presenting today is Simon Wenham again. Simon, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Very excited to be here. Thank you. Excellent. Good to
Introducing Guest Paul Coulter
00:00:36
Speaker
see you. And our guest is coming from the other side of the Irish Sea, Paul Coulter. Paul, are you there?
00:00:41
Speaker
Yes, thanks very much. Gavin, it's great to be with you and you too, Simon. Delighted to be here. really great to see you. Now, Paul, and wait we have a connection through Living Leadership, which is your your kind of day job through Jim Crooks, who is one of your associates, who's also our team chaplain at Solus and invests a lot in our team. We love Jim. And so we got got that kind of connection in common.
00:01:01
Speaker
You're also involved in the Center for Christianity in Society. And you've got a whole background in medical ethics. I believe you trained in medicine initially, but you've been studying theology and doing all kinds of ministry across Northern Ireland.
00:01:13
Speaker
You've got a vast range of pastoral and theological experience. But we focus all of that down today on the question of sharing the gospel and doing it in a way that's contextualized.
00:01:24
Speaker
and helpful Have I missed anything important in your CV there? My wife and children might be offended, Gavin, if I didn't give them a shout out. But yes, i I mean, lots of breadth, whether there's very much depth, we'll have to find out. But yeah, certainly I started out in medicine, worked as a pastor with the Chinese church, and I've studied theology and taught theology and still do a little bit of that day job now with living leadership, but as you say, very involved in in these questions of connecting the gospel with culture.
00:01:56
Speaker
Thank you so much. i wondered if you could say a little bit about your own story. What brought you ah towards ah engaging more with culture and being interested specifically in evangelism?
Paul Coulter's Journey to Evangelism
00:02:08
Speaker
Yes, I think, Simon, it was, I mean, obviously, as ah i grew up in a Christian family, and therefore, I was always familiar with the gospel myself. But it was always something that was very much encouraged in church as I was growing up. And then when I went to university and studied medicine, was also very involved in the Christian union. And again, we had a real heart to reach out to students there.
00:02:29
Speaker
I took a year in the middle of my medical studies to study a degree in medical genetics. And I had the privilege of studying under... a professor called Norman Nevin, who's no longer with us. He's now with the the Lord Jesus.
00:02:44
Speaker
But he was a fine Christian man, an excellent scientist and a brilliant doctor in terms of communicating and connecting with patients. And he was a major inspiration to me. So clearly studying genetics ethics was a big part of that.
00:02:59
Speaker
Seeing his ability to relate to people with compassion. Now, clearly he wasn't sharing the gospel openly in that context, but I knew he was also very involved in his church and in other Christian ministry. And I think that inspired me perhaps more than any other individual to say, I want to learn that and I want to to be like that in as much as I saw Christ in him in that.
00:03:22
Speaker
So it's always been there really from from youth and from student years. And it's always been a big part of my heart to say, how do we help Christians to have confidence to share the gospel? um And how do we really be connected with what people are thinking and the questions they're asking?
Secularization in Northern Ireland
00:03:39
Speaker
um And you're primarily doing that in the context of Northern Ireland. I've been visiting Northern Ireland a few times a year, every year for 30 years, except COVID, when we couldn't. And i my observation coming in from the outside and and going in is that Northern Ireland is changing significantly and has changed a lot over those 30 years. And i my observations as an outsider might be wrong, but I'm observing both... um fairly rapid secularization, i suppose particularly politically, but also ah moving towards more of a multicultural society.
00:04:08
Speaker
How is that affecting how you contextualize and articulate the gospel in the context that you're working in? What does that mean for gospel work on the ground for you? Yeah, so I think you're absolutely right, Gavin. There has been, i would say, quite a dramatic shift, certainly at the political level and and that broader societal level in terms of some of the moral issues. I mean, for me growing up in Northern Ireland as a younger man, we were probably to an unhealthy degree actually proud of you know being ah more socially conservative, having laws that were more um conservative, more aligned with Christian values.
00:04:45
Speaker
and That hasn't always been handled well. I think there has sometimes been a tendency for Christians to speak in quite a, both a judgmental way and quite an entitled way.
00:04:57
Speaker
ah But what I would say is that what hasn't really changed in Northern Ireland, at least not significantly yet, is that we still have a huge percentage of Christians, of evangelicals, Bible-believing Christians, also active ah Roman Catholic folks who would hold to sort of traditional Catholic teaching,
00:05:18
Speaker
But we do at the same time have a decline in what I would call nominal Christianity, more so in the Protestant community, and a corresponding rise in people who would not identify as
Christianity's Historical Perception in Northern Ireland
00:05:30
Speaker
religious.
00:05:30
Speaker
um And that... has played out in terms of just a ah shift in the feeling in society, um a shift of perspective. I think reaching those people is quite challenging because they often, their memory of Christianity or of some kind of affiliation is still quite fresh.
00:05:49
Speaker
and they tend to therefore have actively chosen to reject that, to leave that behind. It's not a novelty to them, or at least they think they know what Christians believe and they don't need it. they've the that's of the That's historical, and of course that tends to be tied up with a view that Christian faith has been part of the problem in Northern Ireland, part of fueling conflict and division.
00:06:12
Speaker
And then the other thing is that politically... during the period of time when we had no devolution, there were some laws that were decided in Westminster for us on some of the big moral issues, ah abortion and same-sex marriage primarily. And I think that was a real shock for Christians and figuring out how do we respond to that in a way that is faithful and creative? How do we actually have conversations about those things? Because it feels like on some of those issues, as soon as you mention them, it's like lighting ah you know a touch paper and and the flame just goes up, doesn't it? There's a lot more heat than light. And we don't want many of us...
00:06:53
Speaker
to be what we what we may have sadly been in the past to some degree, sort of shouting at people about what's wrong. We do want to positively hold Jesus up, but people struggle to know how to do that.
00:07:05
Speaker
They feel like they're on the back foot is a way that I might put that. And yeah, I can understand that a very complex sort of situation in Northern Ireland that you're navigating and in the same in other places in the UK.
Engagement with Contemporary Culture
00:07:18
Speaker
I was interested with what you're saying um in terms of um connecting with contemporary culture. with Would you, do you advocate sort of Christians being involved in all areas of of contemporary culture? Or do you think there are certain areas that are particularly fruitful for evangelism in terms of ah certain types of engagements?
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think there, well, I would very much take the view that there is nothing um in all of creation as it's been put over which Christ is not lowered. you In that sense, the gospel connects with absolutely everything and Christ does. I think the problem often for Christians is seeing how that is so.
00:07:57
Speaker
So I've no doubt that there are some areas of culture that it's easier to connect into. ah Maybe there's greater receptiveness um or maybe some areas where it's harder for Christians to do that with integrity.
00:08:10
Speaker
and But I think we need to be aware of and thinking about and understanding how the gospel connects. with every every aspect of life. So ah we're not, i mean, we are a small set up in the Centre for Christianity and Society. We're all volunteers, apart from one part-time administrator.
00:08:29
Speaker
But that also means we all have other jobs, other roles and other connections in society. So we really want to be thinking about the workplace. We want to be thinking about business, about Politics with a small p, so we're not political.
00:08:45
Speaker
And that's complex in Northern Ireland, where some parties still have a very strong Christian ethos. But, you know, how do we how do we look at that? A particular interest for me is how do we read the news and and read that with a Christian perspective so that we're and we can understand it as Christians from a gospel perspective?
00:09:04
Speaker
And then when other people are talking about it, because they do, you know, in work, in the neighbourhood, on the street, in what way could we speak differently into that or about that, that would either create an opening to talk about the gospel or even just simply testify to the difference that believing in Jesus makes to how we see that.
00:09:25
Speaker
So that's a big thing for me. I think it's, you know, i'm much more concerned about how do we bring that Christian perspective, which is there and hopefully is there in our thinking, but how do we bring that into the open in conversations about everything, you know, from sport to politics to world affairs to the the the crises that people face in their own life with health and and family issues?
Approach to Moral Conversations
00:09:49
Speaker
Just to follow up on that, I wondered if you had any sort of practical advice for speaking into topical issues that are ah you know we are grappling with culturally. You mentioned sort of having conversations.
00:10:03
Speaker
Do you have any advice for any of us in in relation to engaging with those around us? Yes, i I think the biggest challenge there is that as soon as a Christian says what they believe about those moral issues, as soon as they say that,
00:10:19
Speaker
the person who's approaching this from a different worldview, different perspective on the big questions of life, what they hear is, you are judging me, you're condemning me, and um you think you're superior to me.
00:10:36
Speaker
And generally speaking, people, especially in a place like Northern Ireland, where Christians have had a lot of privilege and influence and churches have and haven't always used that well or wisely,
00:10:48
Speaker
That sounds like a play for power. you You want to tell us how to live and what to do. So the biggest thing that i try to do in those conversations and try to encourage others to do is to testify to what is really the core the core testimony of the Christian faith, which is Jesus Christ is Lord.
00:11:08
Speaker
That's if you read the New Testament, that's that he is Lord. And if I can testify to say, okay, there there is a, before I tell you what I think about this, and we might get there and we might get into that conversation, I'm not afraid to say that.
00:11:22
Speaker
But rather than to saying to somebody, this is a sin, which it may be biblically, I need to say to them, the reason I see this differently from you is because I have a Lord's And i'd I'd love to tell you about him. It's because of what he said about this.
00:11:38
Speaker
And I do find that most people in Northern Ireland are still quite positive about Jesus. So they're open to thinking about him at some level. They might have all sorts of ideas about who he is and who he isn't and what that means.
00:11:53
Speaker
But above everything else, I think there's a humility that comes from testifying to say that I don't see this differently because I think I'm smarter than you or or because this suits me.
00:12:04
Speaker
because it's convenient for me or because it gives me the upper hand or the powerful position. And therefore, I think sometimes Christians testifying Jesus is Lord and and actually sharing a little bit about what that means in practice, that that it doesn't mean doing what I want all the time. you know I don't believe in Christianity because it endorses what I want to believe.
00:12:25
Speaker
That being a Christian means saying no to some things. So for me, those things might not be the issues that cultures sort of changing on or wrestling with. But there are other things in my life where being a Christian is tough at times. I need to say no to things. And I think that's quite foreign to people. If they're living without a without a Lord or with without any Lord other than their own opinion and their own decisions, I think that's challenging.
00:12:50
Speaker
it's There's a humility in it. But we can also testify to a great comfort in that, a great security to to say, actually, Jesus knows better than me. And I think that's really good.
00:13:01
Speaker
And it's been good for me. And I trust him because I think people are looking for someone to trust. And I think behind all of it, there's a lot of insecurity, a lot of people who live without real hope.
00:13:13
Speaker
And just showing that and testifying to that, I think, is really important.
00:13:20
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Pep Talk podcast. We hope you're enjoying today's episode. Did you know that as well as talking about evangelism on Pep Talk, the Solas team also does a lot of evangelism. Our speakers are at work every week in cafes, restaurants, pubs, and other places like university campuses sharing the gospel. If your church would like a speaker to come and help you to share the gospel with your community, get in touch with us through the Solas website.
00:13:44
Speaker
And now, back to the program. It's what we were talking about before we came on now, the idea of adequately contextualizing the gospel, not just presenting Christ sort of dislocated from society, but also not kind of getting involved in, you know, culture wars, because ultimately we do want to to share Christ with people. i think you expressed that very, very helpfully there.
00:14:04
Speaker
In one of your videos, when you're introducing your work, you you picked up on this idea that a lot of Christians feel as if they're on the back foot. Could you tell us what what you meant by that, how that's affecting people maybe in their workplaces or in in their evangelism and and how we can encourage Christians to step forward when they're feeling in that kind of defensive posture.
00:14:22
Speaker
Yes, ah I mean,
Christians' Defensive Posture
00:14:23
Speaker
I do think there is. i think a defensive posture is another good way to put that, Gavin, that people do feel, i think because of the sudden changes at a political level, at a legal level, on some of the moral issues, and because we've tended to see those as markers of ah sort Christianised society,
00:14:41
Speaker
In a sense, the decline of a sense of Christendom, that has happened more gradually in England and Wales and and Scotland than it has for us in Northern Ireland. So we've kind of, it was almost ah a seesaw tilting suddenly in the other direction.
00:14:58
Speaker
And I think Christians have reacted to that with some degree of shock, of discouragement. And I think there's a real danger that they they retreat then into a kind of separation. So they they know what they believe. i'm not i Many of them know what they believe, but they just think, you know, I can't share that in the workplace. I can't share that in friendship. I don't want to get into a fight.
00:15:21
Speaker
um So retreating and not engaging, I think, is a real a real risk when people are feeling that way. And I suppose as what I would say to to people is if you listen to people talking on the street or in the workplace, most people...
00:15:37
Speaker
aren't afraid to share their opinions. and You know, that's that's just how people are, isn't it? and And almost Christians can be more reticent about sharing their opinion because understandably, they don't want to cause offence. They don't want to lose a relationship.
00:15:52
Speaker
I do think we can do it. I think we can do it in a more gentle way than perhaps we have before. I think asking questions is a great way. So rather than jumping in, okay, you've said that, I now need to put the alternative because what you've said is just wrong or anti-Christian or whatever. So people will say, I don't want to do that. i don't want to come in and abruptly disagree, but you don't have to do that.
00:16:16
Speaker
You can say to somebody, Do you know that's really interesting? I'm really interested in why you think that or or how did you reach that conclusion or why is it you say that that way or do you think there's another way to see that?
00:16:29
Speaker
So opening up that space for the person to to think and and question themselves. They may then say, well, it's funny you ask that. What do you think? There's an opening.
00:16:41
Speaker
I think we can we can gently say, well, I'm a Christian, Jesus is my Lord, and because of that, I am really more interested in what he says about this than what I think about it. So we can then tell them what Jesus said or or claims that he made, and they may or may not be interested in that, but at least we've we've shared it.
00:17:01
Speaker
But I think keeping those relationships open, Actually, there's a longer term thing in that because it's often when those people hit a tough spot in life.
00:17:13
Speaker
It's really when when the crisis happens ah that suddenly the worldview, the way of thinking, the perspective on life that they've lived with, which they maybe have never really thought through fully, breaks down. It doesn't answer the really big question, particularly when it comes to death and what happens next. and And those things, when when that happens, it's often the trusted Christian friend, Christian colleague that the person will turn to.
00:17:39
Speaker
So I think keeping that integrity, not feeling you have to speak up every time. When you do speak up, often asking more questions than we tend to When we do share what we think, sharing that as what Jesus says rather than what I think. And then then being that trusted colleague, the one who's interested, who's genuinely interested in listening to the person who's there for them. And I've seen that happen so many times that when when the crisis hits, then the person opens up, usually one-to-one, usually not in the group discussion, and there's the opportunity to to really share hope with them.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. and And I suppose it's in those often personal crises, isn't it, as you say, that that people can be real and it and actually raises lots of questions. And I suppose that links in with the whole question of identity and purpose. I was wondering if you could say a little bit about and how the gospel meets people ah in their search for meaning today, because obviously it is a very different worldview from that that many people ah hold today.
Gospel and Search for Meaning
00:18:47
Speaker
Yes, I mean, i so on when I... talk about any issue and obviously quite a lot of what we do in the centre is thinking about specific issues, trying to help Christians to think through them but then also think about how to communicate with others ah about it. But I talk about five movements in that gospel story which is really the story of scripture as well. So God rules That's the foundation, creation, who God is.
00:19:16
Speaker
We rebelled, sin and how that has affected us and the world that we live in and the consequences of that. God rescues in Christ. So the big story of salvation,
00:19:28
Speaker
god are we respond. So we need to respond to that in repentance and faith. And then God restores so that and that's not rocket science. There are lots of models for thinking this through.
00:19:40
Speaker
But if I think of those four, those five movements, rather, I try and then look at what's the story that I'm seeing in the news, for example, or that I'm hearing from my friend as they tell me the story of their life.
00:19:54
Speaker
Where does it begin? and ah And almost always that begins much later than it needs to. It doesn't begin with God. And therefore, we tend to begin with this question of identity, with assuming that my identity as it is now is the way I should be.
00:20:11
Speaker
you know, that's just the way it is, either because of my genes or because of my upbringing or my choices. Okay, so we're living in a truncated story that begins with us rather than with God.
00:20:23
Speaker
and And we're also living with a truncated story at the other end. So in other words, people will tend to have an idea of who they are, who they would like to be, the response they want to make, and some sense of what needs to happen to get there.
00:20:37
Speaker
Not that Christ needs to save me, but that I need to do something, you know, usually. And and in the culture we live in, that's really where where we look for hope. But but it doesn't it never seems to answer the question, for what?
00:20:51
Speaker
For what ultimate end? So we we try and convince ourselves that we can find meaning and purpose just in my story that began with me and ends with me hopefully reaching some kind of kingdom come of my own creation. But whenever whenever death hits or faces us, then we realize that that all crumbles. It all falls down.
00:21:14
Speaker
And I think that's both very, it's very tragic and it's very thin, but the gospel holds out real hope because it has the true beginning and the true ending, that the true beginning is much bigger than we are and it's God himself in it and the true ending. And because that's true, that there is hope of eternal life with him, of a new creation that he alone can bring about, then Christ in the middle So how do I connect that story with people?
00:21:42
Speaker
I find often going to the middle, going to Jesus, as I've been saying, we talk about him, we get to him quickly. That opens up a fresh perspective that says, well, if Jesus was right, the the story is bigger than than my story. And and it starts somewhere else and it ends somewhere else. So what does that look like?
00:22:02
Speaker
And then these other parts, the part about what's wrong with me and what do I need to do, start to to be reshaped by that. So that's, i guess, my my approach. to Go to Jesus quickly, major on him, show high high know no way of thinking about the world can can make sense without him at the right at the centre.
00:22:20
Speaker
And then from that, go to questions of identity and and and purpose, both by where did we come from and where are we where are we heading to?
Conclusion on Christ's Paradoxical Nature
00:22:31
Speaker
And I think that's a brilliant note on on which to draw things to a conclusion with the thought that it's the love of Christ that compels us to to share these things of of hope with people. It's not ah a desire to control or to rule or to you know regain the public square, to force other people to act as we would wish.
00:22:46
Speaker
um There's a strange thing in Christ, isn't it? You said go to Christ in which he's both authoritative, but also approaches us as a servant. he' is He's the one with all authority, but yet who washes our feet. And that's why his love compels us. And it's ah it's a wonderful thing.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's a lovely way to put it, Gavin. And I think that's really true. I mean, Christ is the ultimate paradox in that sense, you know, the one with all authority, but who can be entirely trusted, never uses that authority or power abusively, coercively, manipulatively, the way...
00:23:18
Speaker
the way We fear other leaders will. and And yet, you know, again, you look at him, no one suffers like he suffers. And yet nobody has it together and has so much confidence and hope in God as he does. So all of these things in Christ, suddenly our our question gets reshaped, doesn't it? And the superficial answers fall away.
00:23:39
Speaker
and as you say, right at the heart of that is is the love of Christ for us and at work in us. Brilliant. Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us, Paul. That was really insightful. God bless you and your ministry all across Northern Thank you for coming from me on the last 20 minutes, Simon. It's been a really helpful and great conversation.
00:23:54
Speaker
Join us again in a fortnight where we'll have another guest who will be talking about sharing the gospel in the world that needs to hear about Jesus, this servant who that that God who loved us and gave himself for us. See you in a fortnight.
00:24:06
Speaker
Goodbye.