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00:00:01
With Tom Elliott
2 Playsin 17 hours
Whilst street drama and puppet shows might be a dying form of outreach these days, today's guest started there and continued on to become a professional comedian and magician. How has he achieved success in this field without compromising the gospel or his own values? And how might the church use arts and entertainment better in reaching the world today?
Tom Elliott works as an Event Host & Comedy Magician, performing across the UK hosting corporate events, whilst also performing at holiday parks, churches, theatres and comedy clubs. Once described by Miranda Hart as ‘Such Fun’, Tom has appeared on BBC TV & Radio, had a feature piece in the Times Newspaper and received significant crowdfunding support for his arts-based initiatives. He also hosts a weekly show on Konnect Radio.
To book Tom at your church, or find out more, go to tom-elliot.org
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Transcript
Introduction to the Episode and Guest
00:00:10
Speaker
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to another exciting episode of Pep Talk. I am Andy Bannister from the Sola Center for Public Christianity as always and joined in the co-hosting seat today by Christy Mayer. Christy, how are you doing? I'm doing very well. Thank you, Andy. I'm on your leave, so I'm enjoying that. Fantastic. So where in this great country are you? Where are you?
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm in Ashby de la Zouche, which apparently is the most landlocked kind of town in the UK. There you go. It's like right in the middle. Yeah. There we go. It's also, yeah, you also get the A to Z of geography in one name. The geographically challenged or they're just plain slow like me. Where is Ashby de la Zouche?
00:00:50
Speaker
ah It's in the Midlands. Neil Burton, Tamworth, Darby, Nottingham, like nestled in the middle of Brazil. Well, it sounds like a magical place. It sounds like a magical place, which is a through which is the great graces the great setup because we have we have a magical guest for you heard today. We are joined on the podcast today ah by Tom
Tom Elliott's Journey and Career
00:01:11
Speaker
Elliott. Tom, welcome to pep talk. Hello, both. Good to be with you. How are you doing?
00:01:16
Speaker
We are doing great. I say that as if I've not asked you that already, but to be honest, I asked you that before we start recording, but that's just the way you did it. But then for the joy, of the listeners kind of thing. And besides, you know, things change, right? Life is short. I mean, here's what happened in the United States. You were fine earlier. I'm fine over now. I'm impressed.
00:01:32
Speaker
So for those who don't know you, you've got rid of these like bios that goes on on and on and on. um But to give the kind of headlines, I guess you are, um you are quite a unique individual, you are a comedian, and and a magician, a comedy magician, and an evangelist. um So you ah spend a lot of your time in kind of secular kinda kind of settings, doing magic and comedy and stuff and figuring out how to bring some light into those areas. I think yours you have done stuff for churches and so on and so forth, doing outreach and all those kind of things. You've got a weekly radio show. ah Now our friends at Connect Radio, we know those guys well. And so all kinds of things ah that make up your life. And so maybe Tom, a great introduction might be to go. So tell us a bit about how you are, how do those who you are. How do those different things fit together to make up Tom Elliott?
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. so So it all started when I was in school, really. And um a friend of mine who who isn't a Christian ah was into magic. And I belonged to a church. I was probably, it was early secondary school. So I was like 13, 14. And I joined the, do you remember when, they they still are popular in some places. Do you remember puppet ministry? When like people would stand up and they'd all dance and all of that stuff. Well, I was, because I was entering teenage years, it was that,
00:02:49
Speaker
time in my life when the kind of kids leaders were starting to invite me to be part of the leadership of that. um of that So they invite me to be one of the puppeteers. well that I got involved. I actually learnt the art of ventriloquism. I don't do it anymore. but So don't ask. But I learnt that. And me and my friends from school, non-Christian mate, a guy called James, we set up a little kids party ah business. few likes little side hustle. And we did kids parties all around Gloucestershire, which was great fun. and We charge 30 pounds for a kids party. I mean, you wouldn't hear of it now, would you? um And we split that between us. ah not uncomfortable But it was very exciting. And we love doing it. and We did all sorts of crazy things.
00:03:28
Speaker
We weren't that good, but it was fun. And we did that for years. And then he got when we got to the end of our school years, ah he got a proper job. He actually became the director of Porridge Factory. And that's what you do when you've been doing magic for too long.
00:03:43
Speaker
and um And then I thought, no, no, no, I'm going to carry it on. So I did youth work for a while and I did a few other bits as it was growing, but I carried it on. And I was reading a book one day um from One Way UK, puppet ministry, big puppet ministry kind of resource ministry, if you like, and reading a book. And it talked about how this puppet ministry group would go into schools and all these kinds of places and share the gospel with with children and young people. And something captured my attention that day. And I went, that's what I want to do. I want to travel different places, different kinds of people, and use what I love doing, this puppetry at the time. But that became magic. And then that led became comedy and a fusion between the two. And that's what I want to do. So I started doing it. And it grew from there. And I've been on a bit of a journey. we'll We'll dive into what came next later, I imagine. but um
00:04:37
Speaker
That's where it all came together, really. And the Connect Radio stuff, I've just started doing.
Performing with Faith in Mainstream Spaces
00:04:41
Speaker
Never saw myself as a radio presenter, but ah God opened that door. So, enjoying that as well. Tom, that's amazing. And I think we also have to mention that this this is just warm as my heart so much that you were once described by Miranda Hart as such fun. Is that right? No, I always think I should rephrase that. Once described sometimes sounds like ah she no longer thinks that. um But... ah yeah He's no not fun anymore. He's a nightmare. um No, so it was just because it was it was a few years ago. So I like to put what just to be kind of vaguely honest in in my description. i love it ah So but yes, she so here's here's the truth, right? She never saw me live live. What happened was I was doing a show and I was recording it. so It was years ago. And
00:05:28
Speaker
recording it made a little dvd from it and i had a friend of mine paul karenza was ah with me on the show kind of warming up the crowd for me and um i said to him i said oh any chance of being able to get my randa high he was oh i don't know we don't know but he knows randa well and but he said i don't know there might be barriers and anyway i i thought well i'm gonna give it a go anyway so i messaged her and she was very kind enough to respond to and send me a little postcard and she's she watched my DVD, sent her a copy of the DVD, she watched it and she said I was such fun. What did they do? That's amazing. What's even more amazing, by the way, listeners don't why not appreciate this, that wasn't actually Christi asking the question, that was ah and that was ah Tom doing ventriloquism. That was just unbelievable. I was just watching that. It's just me and a mic.
00:06:17
Speaker
youre like I'm sorry, Krista, you had a question. I'm just going to say that I mean, such fun describes everything that you've just shared with us just now. So how did you then move into kind of the and the comedy scene and what are some of the things that you've, well, that you've enjoyed?
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, so I started to push into all sorts really. So I started, I carried it on ah doing, and then, so why I was doing more, I started my own church, I doing a little bit of kind of ventriloquism and eventually magic at my own church. And then I did work experience. You know, when you get to the end of secondary school, then you spend a week ah doing work experience. Most people end up in a photocopier room, kind of photocopying things for some big chief exec or whatever. ah Not me, I ended up, traveling around with a national children's worker within the Salvation Army who belonged to my the church that I was going to. and and We ended up doing harvest assemblies and he knew what I did. He encouraged me and got me started. so He was like, oh, come and do a little ventriloquist sketch or magic, whatever it was, in these little harvest assemblies all around the country ah during my work experience week.
00:07:25
Speaker
So except most people who are in a photocopy room, no not me, I'm in schools doing ventriloquism at the time. And so it just went from that other church that started to invite me and I started to use that as a platform to share faith. That grew and grew and grew. And then ah just then a few years ago, um I just felt like God was prompting me to ah move into the mainstream space, ah but with an intentional, not to lose the kind of heart of an evangelist, by all means operate very differently, but not to lose that sense of an evangelist um and to be a Christian presence in that space. So now I'm still doing churches. i love I love doing churches where I can be open and kind of free to talk about Jesus. I love doing that.
00:08:10
Speaker
um But more and more just feeling like actually I want to be in a space where I want to be in their territory and I want to be on their grounds and just be the the light of Christ, the presence of Christ in that space.
Outreach Through Arts and Secular Projects
00:08:25
Speaker
So I'm doing everything from comedy clubs to theatre stuff to corporate to holiday parks to everything. And ah it's amazing.
00:08:33
Speaker
Don't get me wrong, there's no massive conversions, but there are some fascinating conversations. um yeah And I do believe God's at work. There's more and more people that I thought I was stepping into reasonably unique territory. And then I realized, no, no, no, there's lots of Christians hidden amongst these spheres where perhaps we have never thought are kind of spaces that might have that.
00:08:58
Speaker
Yeah. i'm There's so much there that fascinates me. Not least, I think that the massive need is that we have Christians in places like whether it's business, whether it's politics, whether it's the arts and and and and comedy. If we've not got people like yourself there, how are we ever going to reach people, as you said, being in their territory? So so unpack that for a little bit. what does it what does that What does that look like? I mean, I imagine you know you obviously just you you don't just like in any setting. You don't just set up and go, so Jesus, right?
00:09:22
Speaker
but i mean what so What are some of the ways that you found a helpful in terms of bringing spirituality, bringing Christian faith into naturally, into conversations in those settings?
00:09:34
Speaker
So, I mean, the first and very basic thing, and I say it's not um a massive game changer. because and what um but I don't actually mean that because I actually think it is a game changer, but it's not um it's not obvious ah in terms of what you see or or stories you can tell. ah The nice thing about being an evangelist in church is that you can say, oh, ah we saw God bring X number of people to faith or whatever. That just doesn't happen in the in the kind of mainstream world. it's it's it's ah It's a longer journey. The first thing I always think of it as like a Daniel 1 principle. ah Daniel in the Bible was worked for the king, worked in a secular space and ah was commented on to be the best at what he did.
00:10:16
Speaker
ah Certainly people recognized him for what he did, but he chose not to compromise. He kind of stayed within his his values and wanted to honor God in all that he was doing. And I think the first kind of step into it, and I i still feel really new in in terms of figuring out what this looks like. ah The first step was I'm not going to compromise on how my act looks like in in a secular space. And it's amazing that People pick up on it. I didn't think anyone would pick up on it. I just thought I'll ill go in, do my thing and they won't even notice. It's you it's amazing how many people have noticed little things like ah comedy clubs, the fact I don't swear or ah corporate stuff. Sometimes just the fact that the the whole thing isn't offensive and I'm not picking out the MD and
00:11:05
Speaker
humiliating him or whatever. um And so it's just an interesting one, trying to be the best I can be in that sphere, but also not compromising, not not doing necessarily what every other act that they've seen is doing. ah And that's hard in the comedy world. It's really hard to earn your credit as a comedian in terms of getting big laughs without reversing to the kind of ah rude or insulting or edgy or or whatever. um Comedy comes with a natural expectancy of being edgy, if you like. So it's really hard to kind of make your mark there without falling to that. But um I've been amazed at how many people have noticed and not only noticed but requested it. So many of the, particularly the corporate conversations I'm having, they're saying, um ah because I mentioned it now as a look, when you book me, you can be
00:11:58
Speaker
risk-free of any anything like that. And they say, oh, Tom, great. that um that's That's great because last year we had this guy and he made fun of them, all MD, and it was it was a bit awkward and difficult. And so I'm just part of the journey is saying, God, help me to be the best I can be. Help me not to compromise. And may just the relationship that I've got with the event manager or people I talked to at the event, may something of you shine through me.
00:12:24
Speaker
And then the next phase of it really, I'm working on now, I'm working on a book at the moment called Live Big, Dream Big, Laugh Often. It's a bit of a life motto that I have. And the idea of that book is that it's going to feel, well, it's going to be effectively a secular book. Feels like a personal development book, feels like a kind of like, not self-help, I don't want to claim to be self-help writer, but that sort of book, if you like, an encouragement, a motivational book that would easily sit on the shelves of water stones or whatever. But within that can give me an opportunity to share faith and to share my story a little bit, packed with humor, packed with ideas and thoughts, but within it all to share my faith. And that's something that maybe I can give away in a corporate setting, in a holiday part,
00:13:11
Speaker
without it feeling like an evangelistic tract, but still something that people can take home, put in their hands that has some element of in it that can inspire them and provoke thought about the gospel.
Christians in Arts and Community Engagement
00:13:20
Speaker
And certainly, some have you ever wondered questions?
00:13:24
Speaker
Well, Tom, just you know picking up on that, have you ever wondered um and kind of approach? what What does that look like for you kind of in your comedy and trying to, it sounds like it's utterly brilliant that the Lord's put you in a particular sphere where you're able to through your attitude and through your use of language um model and witness something really beautiful about the distinction that ah you know being a Christian and following Jesus makes to you. um what What do you think it looks like for you kind of in that setting to raise some of those wandering questions? Or is that really where where the book comes in? like How do you navigate the living distinctively, but also wanting to kind of share a little bit of why you're distinctive?
00:14:08
Speaker
Sure. So that that's ultimately, at this stage, that's where the book's going to come in, because it it's ah it's a little bit tricky because of the style of trying to get people laughing and all of that stuff. The i the way I see it is the comedy, the magic or tricks, whatever you want to call it, gives me a platform to reach people who perhaps would never step into a church. they I always think the church is really good at reaching those in crisis and and it's really good at reaching those who are actively interested in exploring faith. They're willing to come to an alpha course, they're willing to come along with a friend to a Sunday sunday morning guest service. But my heart now is for for those people that are um and not in either of those positions.
00:14:47
Speaker
they not At the moment, they're not interested in coming to Alpha. At the moment, they're not saying yes to their friend who's inviting them to church. At the moment, they're not in crisis. They don't see a need for God at all in their lives. They're quite comfortable. Maybe they're quite happy. Maybe things are good, right? ah My heart is, well, how do we reach them? Well, you reach them in where they're at. And that's why I'm doing the Company of Magic in secular spaces, it' because I want to be in that space. Not necessarily as a kind of forthright voice to to because that they might not be there yet but if I can give them if I can give away something to them like a book if I can make them laugh make them enjoy the show and enjoy whatever deliver a really brilliant event
00:15:26
Speaker
Maybe they follow me on socials. That might that might help, because I see that I'm doing other stuff as well. But if I can give them a book that then shares a little bit about me, continues the theme, helps them a little bit ah in kind of personal growth, all all of that. But then prompts them, have you ever wondered questions? Or then prompts them ideas of, ah actually, when Tom talks about joy, he's talking about a much deeper sense of joy than just laughter and ah and kind of happiness if you like. He's got something maybe that I'm looking for and so that's where the book comes in but eventually there is room and and I'm beginning to think about it but I'm just trying to do one thing at a time. There is room to create something that could kind of because have you ever wondered fits very nicely into an idea of wonder which is what magic is all about. ah Wondering how I've done something wondering what what that looks like how it could be done.
00:16:15
Speaker
Someone who needs to write a book called Have You Ever Wandered? I'd love to seize that idea out a little bit more Tom, because the whole the whole idea of wonder, which you know sort of to magic rise ah raises, you've got a whole kind of comedy piece and that kind of sits within the bigger issue of the arts, doesn't it? and i think I've been sort of intrigued over the years that, you know, that is that that is an area, isn't it, that the church doesn't always do as well as we might in in in in making the use of, particularly perhaps, so you know, the more kind of conservative reformed end of it, where there's sometimes can be a little bit of a suspicion about about about the arts. um So I suppose just be interested to get your reflection on that. So, you know, why is it that you think perhaps the arts and and those kind of creative areas are actually such such a rich area and are there ways the church
00:17:06
Speaker
can engage in that better. Obviously they can book you. That's an obvious way of doing it. A church can say, I want to do the arts better. I'll book Tom Elliott. But on that journey generally into using the arts better in evangelism, and anything that you've sort of um thought about or or encountered on that? I think churches have adopted over the last few years to using the arts as a plan as ah as a way of reaching people.
00:17:27
Speaker
The problem is we we've still not moved away, I think, from this idea of going into a space. We're we're still very much like, well, we'll put on a we'll put on a comedian magician in our church hall on ah on a Saturday evening or whatever and we'll go out and invite people.
00:17:46
Speaker
the The problem is we we're we're still in our little safe territory, it and it's and it's great. i mean In many ways, it's got its upside, hasn't it? if we're in our If we're in our territory, then when people come, they can expect some element of sharing of the gospel. That is a freedom that we can't take for granted, that we can share openly about our faith if it's in a church, because people have gone, well, I've come into a church, and that's great.
00:18:09
Speaker
but my I guess what i want to encourage is to begin thinking outside of the box how can we use the arts the arts ultimately gives a platform in a space that reaches people who would never step into a church. Therefore how can you use it effectively and that that comes with a whole new different ball game back as we've already spoken about you can.
00:18:30
Speaker
evangelism looks very different. it It wouldn't be right in many ways to kind of suddenly go into a gospel preach in the middle of a comedy club or in the middle of whatever. But um there's a church in Kettering that ah does this brilliantly. I can't remember the name of the church, but effectively it's turned its church building into an art center midweek. And it it has all sorts. It runs comedy nights. It runs all sorts of stuff, but it just bridges the gap between church as a ah kind of place of worship, ah but also something that's accessible to the members of the community. That's not belittling the place that it is. That's not belittling anything of the gospel or anything like that. They're just saying that we want to use this facility that we've got this as as a community building. so and And the arts provides a nice platform to slowly break down those barriers.
Understanding Magic and Cultural Sensitivities
00:19:21
Speaker
and That was utterly wonderful, Tom. um i'm just I'm just thinking a little bit more about the relationship between like art, comedy and particularly kind of the magic piece and just picking up off of what Andy was saying earlier. Have you ever um I guess encountered ah a healthy warning from Christians who may feel like, oh, magic. um Are you dabbling in something that you want not to be? And if you have, how have you responded to that? Because I just wonder if maybe some of us listening thing might have similar questions. Yeah, do you know so it's an interesting one. i i've Thankfully, I've never had anyone that's been particularly like aggressive about it. I mean, I know some friends of mine have. um Here's the is the truth. If you saw my show, you'd soon realize there's nothing dark about it and because the show's too ridiculous to have anything dark about it in. um But
00:20:18
Speaker
ah People often worry about what they don't know. ah they they look at they They look at the word magic and they go, ah because it depends on not how you understand magic. So um I went to, I did a show at a church. no It wasn't a show, it was a comedy and quiz night. One of the things I do in church is comedy and quiz night. It's a little bit of me performing alongside a quiz.
00:20:40
Speaker
I got called in from another comedian that had to pull out um to do this event and they said to me, ah Tom, whatever you do, don't mention the word magic. And i I got a bit nervous. I almost had to turn away the gig because I thought the problem is, and here's so just within that, right? There's no good word for it because the only other words, basically I'm doing tricks, right? So you can you can say, well, I'm a trickster, but that sounds a little bit behind the That time doesn't sound right. An illusionist is the the safest word, but the problem is when when I think of an illusionist, I think of someone with two like big props and a sawing a lady in half. and or like That's not what I do. It doesn't really portray the the kind of performer I am. Then you're left with sorcerer, but that's not going to work, is it? Or conjurer or warlock. There is no good word, um deceiver. like i mean you just you I don't know, there's no good word for it. Now, when I went to this church, i because I did the gig, I did the gig in the end, and it was a fun gig, and I chose my material carefully. I chose things that looked more like stunts rather than tricks, if that makes sense. So cut out all the mind reading type effects, if you like, and did more of the, I swallowed a balloon, for instance, so
00:21:56
Speaker
It's a stunt more than it is a ah trick. I did a thing where people fall on each other's lap and we take away the chairs. We did this thing about um ah I swing a glass of water on a hoop and I swing it around my head and all that stuff. I did stuff that didn't look magical but looked more like an impressive stunt, if you like. Now, ultimately, there's a trick behind some of that.
00:22:17
Speaker
ah But ah when I arrived, I knew instantly why and I totally respected it. The church was had a large proportion of people from maybe African countries and continents. Now, look, I totally understand for them. I totally get it because they've come from a ah culture where magic, the word magic means a very different thing to what it might mean here. And I totally get the concern. I totally get the the nervousness around it. I totally get the frustration that might cause um And so I get it. But when it comes to people here in the UK who, I would say, have a broader understanding of what that could look like. Our experience for most of us probably doesn't include the really dark side of dark magic. Our experience, we know of Penn and Teller. We know of Paul Daniels. We know that all those things are just tricks. There's something that you don't know that they're doing that you haven't seen.
00:23:15
Speaker
night people go, oh, well, you're deceiving. Well, here's the truth is that you can any anyone, if you saw me do a trick, you can go and buy the instructions to that trick. Now, it might cost you quite a bit of money because some some of the tricks do cost a bit of money. But any the magic circle, for instance, isn't quite as closely guarded as you think it might be. ah If you want to know how a trick is done, you can go and buy the instructions. Now, whether you want to or not is a whole other question. um But it's it's open for all. It's not like a seat it's not like a little community of secrecy.
00:23:47
Speaker
it's all out there, it's just you've got to go buy it. So in terms of people's concern, I always say, you know, like, if you want to know how this is done, honestly, it would ruin it for you. Because the mystery oh of of it is all part of the fun. If you knew how it was, that I've bought tricks before, but I've been stunned in the video that's advertising it. And then I get it and I go, really?
00:24:10
Speaker
I've just spent all that money on this and you realise, I don't know, it's a cup with no bottom in or it's a, I don't know, a false card or whatever. And sometimes you go, ah, is that it?
Faith Conversations and Living by Values
00:24:23
Speaker
And again, if people just knew the reality of what it is, they'd go, oh, OK, it's just it's just ah me not understanding the full picture of what's going on here. Yeah. I think you've given you've got a title for your ah your next book there, Tom, from from mentalism to fundamentalism.
00:24:41
Speaker
There you go. So I guess my last question as we hit come up to the 25 minutes. I suppose the last question is obviously a lot of what you've talked about is how you share your faith when you're on a stage with with a platform. Because the advantage of comedy and the stuff that you do, gives you it gives you a platform. ah You know, Christian and I have that experience when we when we speak at events. It gives you a, you know, it's easy in one sense.
00:25:02
Speaker
but The challenge for all of us is then how we share our faith with the next door neighbor, with ah with ah with a friend, those one-to-one things. Are there stuff that you've learned in your, as it were, sort of standing on a stage approach to evangelism that you've then been able to take into your everyday evangelism, where ah where you you know you're starting from the same principles as any one of us because you're not a man on the stage with ah with swallowing a balloon?
00:25:24
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I just stand in my garden and swallow a balloon gives a great opportunity. um ah No, I mean, look let's let's be really honest here. ah Evangelism on a stage is very different, and I would say much easier than evangelism in in one-to-one friendships and relationships and I would say don't judge my personal evangelism by what you see on stage because the stage stuff is very easy there's there's a dynamic there that enables you to feel a lot freer and a lot bolder and braver perhaps ah in person it's a very different story isn't it I think many of us struggled to know how to get that into conversation how to get that to be honest I so I still I'm apply the Daniel 1 principle. I want to live in such a way of high standards, but also not compromise. I still live by that principle.
00:26:15
Speaker
um and To be honest, i my personal method of doing it really is to use what I do. so Quite often i'll when people are asking about what I do, because it's because it's a bit of a unique job, people often ask more about the job. like If you're an accountant, it doesn't always happen that way, I don't think, but um no one asks more about what an accountant does.
00:26:37
Speaker
but People are often asking more, and I i quite often say, well, I slip churches in. When I say, what where do you where do you perform? I don't hide away the fact that I do churches, because quite often that will provoke a conversation of some sort, like comedy, magic in church. ah And so I do that. And more and more, do you know, as ah when when Andy wrote the book, have you ever wondered? I thought, that's it. It's kind of the language that I've been waiting for to slip into my personal evangelism.
00:27:06
Speaker
because I think it is the, and Andy's not paying me for this endorsement, by the way, um but I think it is the um it's an ideal way to naturally blend into a conversation about faith. You found a moment, both of you have found yourself, I know you're with a mate, maybe you're walking at night or something and you see the start. um Sounds very Disney-esque, doesn't it? But if somebody sees the stars, your mate goes, oh, mate, aren't the stars amazing? And you go, they are, aren't they? And you can go, you can hook into that curiosity. And you can go, if you have you ever wondered, like, why? Or what makes us so curious about that? Or I think the question, have you ever wondered? It's just such a beautiful, natural, non-threatening, non-preachy way of slipping into that conversation.
Episode Conclusion and Sign-off
00:27:53
Speaker
Tom, thank you so much. We're sadly now at time, but before we just kind of wrap up, where can we go to find some of your info or if we wanted to book you for an event, where would you go? So if you go to my website, which is tom-elliot.org. Now, you've got to make sure you spell Elliott right, otherwise you get a Scottish sidekick, which is a very different act than what it just said. You don't want to invite him to your church. Tom-elliot, so E-L-L-I-O-T.
00:28:23
Speaker
Great. Dot org. Fantastic. We'll probably put that into the ah the the show notes at the bottom of the and the program once it goes live. We will. Thank you so, so much. and Tom, it's been great to spend some time with you. And that brings us to the end of another episode of pep talk. And we look forward to being with you in a couple of weeks time with another wonderful guest. Goodbye for now. Goodbye for now.