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Invincible Finale - Ep 8
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Our coverage of the earth-shattering finale for Amazon's Invincible Season 1. EP 8 WHERE I REALLY COME FROM
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Message
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Podcast Focus and Host Introduction
00:00:27
Speaker
On another exciting edition of Animation Deliberation, we are tackling the season finale for Amazon's Invincible, Episode 8, where I really come from. All that and more, right after this.
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00:01:36
Speaker
Welcome back to the Animation Deliberation Podcast. It's the podcast where we take action animation and cartoons seriously, but not too seriously. I'm your host, Jay Scottie St. Clair, and I am joined, as always, by the illustrious Zuhair Ali. What's happening, man? Oh, that's a fancy word. I made the mistake of trying to eat while watching this episode. Highly regret that, and I'm ready to talk.
00:01:59
Speaker
sweet sweet well uh... let's get right into it right after this sing along if you know the words a one two three it's time for animation deliberation a conversation and a celebration of a favorite action animated series yeah yeah almost forgot that can't forget that can't forget that all right well uh...
00:02:27
Speaker
As we have kind of been doing these last few weeks as we've gotten more listenership and really appreciate that, we've gotten more reviews as well as feedback. So as you hear, I believe we have another five star review from one of our listeners. What do you got?
00:02:41
Speaker
Alright, TJ Stafford gave us a 5 star review.
00:03:02
Speaker
Nice. Appreciate how much you reach out to us on the Stranded Panda chat as well. Thanks, TJ. Yeah, TJ. We really appreciate it, man. You've been great. So really appreciate that five-star review. And with that in mind, we are still continuing that contest. So if you're listening now and have not left us a five-star review, we are working with the Stranded Panda Network to get some A-T-shirt out to the winner of a random drawing. All you have to do to enter that
00:03:27
Speaker
is submit a five-star review to Animation Deliberation on Apple Podcasts.
00:03:51
Speaker
I think it's stuck in my head throughout the week, so you're doing something right. Yeah, yeah. I've been called worse than dorky, so I'll take it.
Team Dynamics and Listener Engagement
00:04:00
Speaker
All right, well, I guess the last little bit of housekeeping before we get to dive into our full thoughts on this episode is people that have been listening to our coverage of Invincible Season 1 thus far may notice that we're missing one of the voices that has been along for the ride.
00:04:17
Speaker
so far and that is Mr. Nathaniel Mussey. We hate that he could not join us for this conversation but just scheduling wise it's a crazy time for him. It's a crazy time for all of us as you know the world is returning back to normal but I definitely did not want to exclude him from the conversation. I really appreciated his insights and I think he's been a really valuable asset to the conversation so I definitely wanted to provide him with a platform to give his thoughts on this
00:04:44
Speaker
stellar finale, so we'll jump to that right now. I'm going to throw it to a past version of J. Scottie, so here we go. Pardon the interruption, Animation Deliberation listeners. We interrupt your regularly scheduled podcast to bring you this special conversation featuring Panda Nathaniel Muzzy.
Invincible's Season Finale Analysis
00:05:08
Speaker
You know, I'll just get right into it, Muzzy. You've been along for this journey the whole way through, so scheduling-wise, it didn't exactly work out to have the three of us, including Zuhair, jump on for this conversation, but you've been such a valuable asset to these conversations and brought so much insight that I definitely didn't want to exclude you from the conversation, and given how
00:05:29
Speaker
Awesome this finale was I definitely wanted to give you the opportunity to give some of your thoughts so with that said I will do my best to kind of keep quiet and not interject too much as difficult as that will be given how Awesome this finale is well from there. I'll kind of give you the floor here, man What did you what did you think about this this season in this finale man?
00:05:48
Speaker
Um, what a shocker, um, maybe not in terms of what Nolan slash Omni man did or how he behaved, but just in terms of the graphic and psychological trauma that he put his son through, uh, in this episode, um,
00:06:11
Speaker
That may be the most brutal beating I've ever seen. Yeah, it was really intense and gratuitous as far as the violence goes. I'm already seeing some of the feedback coming in that maybe it was a little bit too much, but I thought it was incredibly, incredibly effective. It really, really moved me.
00:06:32
Speaker
I thought so too. Uh, you know, it's one of those things where it was a little hard to watch at times because it's supposed to be hard to watch. And they really didn't pull any punches as far as what Nolan
00:06:51
Speaker
will do to try make Mark, see his side, the train scene. Oh, goodness gracious. Yeah. And like trying to hold the building up or, you know, and all that's left is the arm, which kind of harkens back to the old lady from episode, was it episode one?
00:07:15
Speaker
I think it might have been episode two when he was first introduced to the teen team at that time. Right. I'm a little fuzzy on which is which, but only this is his dad intentionally killing people to try and make him realize that they don't matter. And that's the thing.
00:07:38
Speaker
the physical violence isn't the greatest harm that he inflicts on Mark during this episode. The mental trauma he puts his son and his wife through, you know? Because Deborah's watching is brutal and it's hard to watch and it's supposed to be hard to watch. And I know I've said that twice now, but it really drives its point home.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're okay for repeating that because it really does ring true. Like, I'll just go out, come out and say, you know, that scene where Nolan's basically pummeling Mark into the side of the mountain, just like beating his face in. And then he starts to have that flashback.
00:08:25
Speaker
I was crying like a baby. The most I've cried from anything animated or live action in quite some time. I had tears running down my face basically from the part of the flashback where he started to cheer for Mark pretty much all the way up until we got that scene with the Guardians where they kind of had their come together and really felt united as a team for the first time. Yeah. And that's, I cried too during this.
00:08:55
Speaker
It, it really, really spends a lot of time hammering home this, this pain and struggle, but it somehow manages to leave things off with a hope of optimism. Oh yeah. Omni man has left the planet. Mark has friends again. Amber takes him back, which I'm not a hundred percent sure I love that, but I wanted to see where they go with it.
00:09:25
Speaker
It rang a little false for me as well, but they've done such a great job with the character up until this point. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to see where it goes, but yeah, I'm with you.
00:09:39
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, then we get at the end, Alan, the alien back, which I love. And I think we talked about wanting to see more of him and then this coalition of planets. So I think we're going to get more space stuff. Oh, definitely. And they showed the, I forget the face hugging aliens on Mars. I believe it was the sequids.
00:10:04
Speaker
Sekwiz, thank you. Yep. Yeah, we've got Viltervite, Sekwiz, Flaxen's... It's a little hard to keep them all memorized. No worries, no worries. But I think we're gonna see a continuation of that story. We're gonna see a continuation of D.A. Sinclair, because we saw a bunch of Rhianomen. Oh yeah, oh yeah.
00:10:31
Speaker
And the person who I really feel bad for at the end of this episode was Debbie. Oh, totally heartbroken for her. The fact that she had to hear Nolan referred her as a pet, as traumatic as that was for Mark. Yeah. I mean, and you get that heartbreaking scene where he's just kind of downstairs, sees an empty fridge and wants to order some food and just, yeah, it just peaks into a room and she's just like,
00:11:01
Speaker
broken into pieces on the bed. He's talking about the violence being tough to watch. That was tough to watch too.
00:11:15
Speaker
That totally made me cry. It's just like the saddest thing you could imagine. And I don't know what the resolution's gonna be. I could see Omni Man not even being in the next season or not being there till the end of the season.
00:11:33
Speaker
I'm interested in seeing where his story goes because He's on the outs with earth and he's presumably on the outs with the viltramites Because they don't accept people abandoning their post
00:11:50
Speaker
But I'm also super curious about this coalition of planets. Oh, yeah. Because that just sounds like a blast. Yeah. So they got me. I feel like this one stuck the landing. I can see where people feel like maybe it was a little gratuitous in the violence. But I tell you what.
00:12:15
Speaker
It sure was heartbreaking and that was what they were going for. Um, and I cannot wait for the next season. I'm as excited for the next season of this as I am for anything coming out, you know, with the boys. Um, Oh yeah.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's just been such a fun show to be able to watch weekly like this and to talk about with you guys. And I appreciate you for having me on to do that.
00:12:48
Speaker
No, no, I have to thank you again for, you know, making the time. I know this is kind of a hectic time of year for you especially and just in the world in general with life kind of returning to life, life returning to normal a little bit more quickly than we may have anticipated. But yeah, I agree, man. This finale was so, so well done.
00:13:08
Speaker
And they kind of like left us on the edge of our seats in terms of like whether or not we were going to get a subsequent season, but we get the announcement of not just one season, but a third season as well. So yeah,
Future Plot Speculations and Cliffhangers
00:13:23
Speaker
I think the timing was just perfect with this finale being as well executed as it was with that announcement. I'm just really hoping that there's a nice groundswell for this show going forward, like we saw with with shows like The Boys that you mentioned.
00:13:36
Speaker
Hopefully Amazon can be the place for this like, you know, a little more mature graphic novel material. That's kind of what I'm hoping.
00:13:47
Speaker
Yeah, I tell you, it's been fun seeing what they did with this and the boys. And I just hope they continue to make and fund good projects like this. Because I love talking about them, you know, either in Stranded Panda Chat or in this format. It's just been so fun. Yeah, yeah.
00:14:10
Speaker
Well, I'm sure I'll have conversations with Zuhair here, but I think we probably may wait a week or two, but I think we probably want to do maybe a season review in retrospect and maybe like have full on predictions for the next seasons and then also use that as an opportunity to get a lot of the listener feedback. So if you want to be a part of that, definitely would love to have you be a part of that being aware of your schedule and whatnot.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure we'll have you on for future shows and whatnot. Again, thanks for your time and the insights you brought. Really appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate being on, and I look forward to hearing you and Zuhair's conversation on this last episode. It's a good one. Yes, indeed. All right, and with that, I will throw it to future Jay Scottie and Zuhair.
00:15:08
Speaker
All right. Thank you. Past Jay Scottie. Uh, we're back back in the, in the presence or for listeners, it's still some version of the past, but, uh, we won't get, yeah, there wasn't too much time travel in, uh, this, this season. So we won't dive too deep into that, but the flaxens do seem to be making a return before I get too ahead of myself.
00:15:30
Speaker
All right, man. Well, with that little brief conversation I had with Muzzy, I had an opportunity to give some of my thoughts and opinions. So Zuhair, I want to open the floor to you, man. What did you think about this crazy finale? Well, this episode really was two part where we had the big showdown and then just kind of the aftermath either with how much the last two episodes kind of had
00:15:57
Speaker
uh... slower build-ups for the standard the show is given for slower uh... it really it set it up perfectly that we could just like kind of dive into the the literally heavy hitting scenes that followed just that that showdown between uh... the the Grayson family was
00:16:20
Speaker
Honestly really difficult to watch is totally well done but like I said I was trying to Eat my tropical smoothie wrap and it was just kind of like in my hand with my mouth open ready for a bite But then I just couldn't like stop staring at the TV, right? So it just lingered there for a while Yeah, this is the that fight scene alone I
00:16:42
Speaker
shows the benefits of animation over live action because I don't think live action could ever knock off what they did with that.
00:16:55
Speaker
It'd be interesting to see them try to pull it off, but yeah, just from a budget standpoint alone, it'd be a huge hurdle to even contemplate doing. But I'm right there with you, man. You're not the first person that I've heard say it was tough to watch, and it was tough to watch.
00:17:15
Speaker
I don't, as gratuitous as the violence is, I always find it super, super effective. And like, they just did not waste any time. They did not pull any punches. The opening scene, I kind of knew it was gonna happen as soon as we saw those, the grassy hedges. I was like, okay.
00:17:31
Speaker
Immortal inbound in five four. I didn't expect the blood to come raining down. So that was a nice effect Yeah, but then yeah, his body just lands and his entrails spilled out spill out. And yeah, there's really no time wasted at all Mark immediately assumes something's wrong with Omni man and starts to attack him but
00:17:50
Speaker
It's just like, no, Mark, it's me. It's actually me. And lays it all out there, what the true nature of the Viltremites is. And man, just that scene on Viltrem where we got to see, it was kind of...
00:18:04
Speaker
as opposed to the lie that we saw Nolan tell Mark when he was like, what, seven years old? Where he was embellishing about how Viltrim is a perfect society or whatever. We get almost like the same exact shot from like the distance of the utopian society, but this time we just see one by one just eviscerate each other, man.
00:18:25
Speaker
So response to a couple of things like in regard to the the detail of the gore in this On us on a smaller note I like that whenever there's like collateral damage instead of just hearing the screams like you actually see like bits of blood splatter Like it's not it's not the biggest thing but it's a it's a touch to show that it's like
00:18:45
Speaker
no it wasn't them just screaming because they're scared like there actually is damage going on those little bits of splatters here and there like make a world of a difference and just kind of like the overall effect of that because that's really something we don't see often you don't see somebody like running on the street um from the hero crashing in and like seeing that level of damage so the attention to detail on little notes like that i think really did expand the effect of that
00:19:15
Speaker
And on my notes, the first thing I thought of when they showed that Vulturum scene was, I guess the Purge worked over there? It was just like, hey, just get out with the weaklings, fight for the death. For the Naruto fans out there, it really reminded me of the Mist Village, where it's like everybody's classmates together, and the final exam is for you to kill your classmates.
00:19:37
Speaker
And they become, like they get to graduate and become a ninja. It's just like, oh God, like this is pretty brutal society over here. And dude, I'm sure, I could see Thanos recruiting Votrums, like pre-Infinity Gauntlet when he was actually like doing it himself and all that. Yeah, because they went ahead and cut their population half on their own. He'd probably be a big fan of theirs anyway.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, man. But the thing I harken back to is just, and you mentioned all those little details about the people just being taken out by the sheer fact that Mark has been blown back like this, but then even in that insane subway sequence where Omni-Man is just holding Mark helplessly as the train plows through and his limbs are just tearing through people, he takes that moment as the subway's ending and stomps down on his foot so that the final train
00:20:31
Speaker
flips back up into the air and crushes all the people that are fleeing away. So not only does it just heighten how desperate and beaten down Mark is, it just goes to show how truly callous Omni-Man and Nolan is at this point. Man, it was tough to watch, but it's so well done.
00:20:55
Speaker
I mean, I said it in my little conversation there with Muzzy, but once we got to that scene where Nolan's basically just pummeling Mark into the mountainside,
00:21:08
Speaker
Once he starts to have the flashback and starts to root for Mark when he's playing the baseball game, man, I cried more than I've cried anything. Live action animation in quite some time. The tears just started streaming from that scene pretty much all the way through until we got...
00:21:31
Speaker
you know, the scene with the Guardians cleaning off the wall of blood. So I was just, I was a mess, man. I found it super effective. Everything from the voice acting to, I felt like they really did, like they held all their cards for like the first episode and then this episode in terms of just like the heightened detail in the animation, just like every way Omni-Man's face contorted when he was so angry at Mark, but then when you see like the flashes of
00:21:59
Speaker
humanity start to come back in. Oh, it was just incredible. Such a well done finale. And halfway through the fight, Mark has all the dialogue of like, no, you are human. You have been learning from us. You have changed. And Nolan just refuses to accept that he's like, nah, I'm Viltromite first. And then it really starts to leak in. And I feel like this is just kind of like a common thing with anything that involves aliens and Earth. Like, oh, what has Earth done to me?
00:22:28
Speaker
how I had as Earth made me so soft but yeah it really worked in this one where it's like because you see the brutality and how little he actually cares about earthlings and the planet itself he calls it like a sad excuse for civilization and things of that sort yeah that really hurt
00:22:46
Speaker
But the lying out of context is just kind of a little comedic, but when you really think about it, it's like he beats the shit out of his son and then has his little moment and then just goes back to his god-awful sales pitch.
00:23:04
Speaker
Of joining him, but then it's like asking these non rhetorical questions It's like oh, sorry dad. I'm choking on my blood right now. I can't really answer you at the moment But then when the line actually came in he was like, what are you gonna do in 500 years? Who would you have? Why do you care about these people? He's like, let's still have you like yeah Wow destroyed me. Yeah, you just see the single tear run down his face and his Completely mutilated lips at that point in time
00:23:33
Speaker
And, uh, one of the, like, one of the reasons it was like the change in expression was so highlighted there with Omni man. When he said that is just right before that, when he was pummeling his face and he's like, what's another 17 years I can start over again. It's just like, Oh my goodness. It's like, Oh, such a fucked up line, especially after calling his mom, um, a pet. Yikes. Oh.
00:24:01
Speaker
That was one thing that I did find a little bit interesting. It was like when he called her a pet, it upset Mark more than it seemed to upset Debbie. When Debbie had the real emotional reaction is when he said that her life didn't matter in the great scheme of things.
00:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think she was still trying to process everything happening in the first time and then it must have like really settled in after. Sure. It wasn't just words at that point. She saw what he was capable of. Yeah. I mean, we talk about how difficult it was to see like the Grayson family fighting, but it was just as difficult to watch Debbie have to go through this. I mean, throughout the season, she's learned more and more that Nolan wasn't who she thought he was, but
00:24:48
Speaker
especially that scene when Mark comes home after he's healed up a bit. He actually flies in front of her, which I thought was a little weird, but apparently that was enough to set her off. He finds her in the bedroom, just absolutely crumpled in on herself and sobbing. It was tough to see, man. And Sandra, oh, I'm glad she got a little bit more to do here towards the end.
00:25:12
Speaker
I'm, I'm glad you said that because I didn't think of it as like her responding to him flying. I was thinking more of like, he's probably like in so much pain that flying was a little bit easier than walking. Oh, that's a, I didn't even consider that. I liked that we both had such different takes on it. I mean, there's probably some value in, in both of those. Yeah. Cause he got up and he was just like, ah, that's better. But I can see kind of both of those being connected.
00:25:37
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Okay. I like that. But now that we're kind of transitioning to like the post fight, I think it's safe to say here. Debbie had some interactions with Cecil like throughout the whole fight and whatnot, where he got to kind of be
00:25:52
Speaker
I don't want to say the cricket on her shoulder, but I did feel like he was voicing a lot of the thought process she was having. And even afterwards, when he was telling her they're basically faking Nolan's death to have died in the explosion in the house across the street and that they will be taken care of by his book sales, there was that moment where she lashed out at him a little bit because he used the word some semblance of normal or something like that. And she's like, normal. And he has a soft moment.
00:26:22
Speaker
There was a line that he gave her that I wasn't really sure how to take. It seemed like it was comforting.
00:26:27
Speaker
but given some other things that we learn about Cecil later on and how very much like a double agent, like Nick Fury type character he
Character Morality and Guardians' Actions
00:26:36
Speaker
is. Anyway, the line was, you know, Nolan was living right underneath my nose the whole time and I didn't know it. I don't know how I could live with myself if I didn't start to make things right. And I was like, is that really compassion for Debbie or is that kind of an admonishment at the same time? Like she was the person that was closest to him. Did you pick up anything there?
00:26:55
Speaker
Um, so actually after that part, I wrote down in my notes, like I felt really bad for Cecil because his objective really does seem to be like, you know, taking care of humanity and this and that. And after losing the guardians and then having to deal with all that, uh, with Omni man and his family being right next to him, like, I think there was like, I think there was actual remorse, but I also feel like characters who were in that position of leading organizations.
00:27:24
Speaker
that have to deal with stuff like that like they become numb to giving bad news because they just do it so often so it was one of those things like he's more logistics than he is
00:27:39
Speaker
Um emotional, I guess So like when he was going it's just kind of like all right. Here's the gist like here's the headstone. This is your house This is where your incomes coming from like just kind of like going through it and you could see he's trying to like open up Like I know this doesn't really do much and debbie's just kind of like get to the point so it's like even in his attempt to show emotion debbie didn't really give him the opportunity and
00:28:05
Speaker
And because she was going through so much, like, she snapped back at him, but you see Mark afterwards, like, talking to Cecil so gently and thanking him for everything and whatnot, like, he's more emotionally understanding of the situation. I'll say emotionally understanding. They're able to emotionally communicate better than how far opposite the spectrum that Deborah and Cecil are in regards to that form of communication. That's fair. Yeah.
00:28:33
Speaker
But I generally feel bad for him. I don't think it's as much of get the mission done. I think he really did hurt the way that things panned out, like how Mark Hamill's character, you actually see him grieving over it. But I think that's the best way that Cecil was able to grieve over what happened.
00:28:53
Speaker
Yeah, I believe Mark Hamill's character was named Art. I can't remember his last name, but he basically created all the costumes for not only Invincible, but Omni-Man, and he was shown to be like a close friend of Omni-Man, so he had the whole sequence where he was looking at the photo of them fishing and then throws it out. Art Rosenbaum. Art Rosenbaum, okay. I thought it might have been Rosenbaum, but I didn't want to...
00:29:35
Speaker
of where the, I should have said this up at the top. I know I said it in the conversation with Muzzy, but we do get the fact that they waited right till the end to let us know, but we do have seasons, not only just season two announced, but season three as well. So with that in mind, we got some
00:29:41
Speaker
just say without knowing for sure.
00:29:52
Speaker
snapshots of where future seasons could go and one of those in particular that I was mentioning was you see Cecil Steadman overlooking DA a very much rehabilitated well physically rehabilitated I don't know about his mental mental space but he looks to be doing much better physically working on his reanimate and
00:30:15
Speaker
I can see where Cecil's coming from in terms of like those reanimate actually did do a fairly decent job at slowing Omni Man down for a little bit in the previous episode. But that's just something that continues to rub me the wrong way after what DA Sinclair did to like a guy like Rick and we, and we know how William felt about him. The fact that he's just able to like walk free in any capacity.
00:30:39
Speaker
just does not sit well with me. And I have, I have to imagine that's going to be something that puts Cecil at odds with not just invincible, but you know, maybe some of the other heroes as well. Yeah. That whole light room just kind of shows that there's a lot of sketchy stuff going on in the background. Um, whether it be for the overall benefit of humanity or if it is for like, it's just like,
00:31:05
Speaker
It comes from the moral argument of just kind of like, what's too far to protect the greater picture? Like, where's, where's the line in this? Right. And like, Cecil makes it seem like that it's veterans who like, aren't ready to give up and are like, willingly giving up their bodies, but it's like, can we get that conversation? Yeah. Is can we have like that, that Iron Man three of them like experimenting extremis and like, but them showing that they want to be a part of
00:31:36
Speaker
What whatever his faces mission was like hmm I don't want to take Cecil's word for it that it's people who volunteered for this program as opposed to people who were being kidnapped under Sinclair
00:31:49
Speaker
I never got the impression that it was volunteers. I got the impression that it was like recently deceased soldiers and they just like collected the bodies while there was still like some nerve function or something like that. But I thought in the previous episode, he was like service members. I get to like serve their country again and he didn't flat out say it, but that's just the way I read that line. But maybe it's open to interpretation.
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah, I got that as just kind of like members who were like already dismembered or something. And it's like they're gonna die at this point anyway, so let's get a little more out of them.
00:32:23
Speaker
Well, maybe, yeah, that could be entirely possible. I don't like either of those, but... Yeah, they're pretty gruesome. And I wanted to say it on the previous episode's coverage, but I just never had a good opportunity. Just talking about how grotesque those things are, one of the things they do that harkens back to something like Attack on Titan, where the Giants look so grotesque, is just the exaggerated smile and the fact that their lips don't close all the way. Anytime you see that weird, stretched smile like that,
00:32:53
Speaker
One of the things for the Uncanny Valley, there's like tips you off immediately. Like, oh, that's unnatural. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a lot of the animated versions of the Joker. It's like whenever he comes in. Oh, sure. You're just so uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And also, the sound that they make is just very zombie-like in the way that they scream and shriek. It's just, oh, I don't like anything about that.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Well, talking, I mean, while we're on the subject of things that were unsettling, I know we've kind of moved on a little bit from the Gore and Omni-Man, but one thing I did want to mention is that sequence where Mark tries to save the fighter pilot when his chute won't deploy. And man, that was just, man, the way they did that scene was so effective and so chilling when Omni-Man lands like,
00:33:48
Speaker
down right behind the guy i was just like i thought he was going to land on the guy first that's what i thought too but then now he just like puts his hand out and just like like he's not even going through butter it's like absolutely nothing and the guy's face is just gone and he lands right in mark's arms and in that moment he goes where's that other one flying up looking for the other jet i was like oh jesus christ what's wrong with this guy yeah yeah it was intense but
00:34:15
Speaker
Um, another one that was rough was the building falling and he was telling them like, like, don't worry. I'll got you. I got you. And then like the kid is dead. The mom is dead. The arm is in his hand and yeah. Yeah. Like, Oh my God. And then just like going through the road and just all those people, like just decimated and
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean and then on that newscast afterwards the like the newscaster just like the death toll is The death toll is incalculable incalculable. Yeah, it's thousands in the banner. Yeah Well, that's when we learn our we got the scene where the the Guardians, you know despite Cecil's orders not to suit up eventually after watching all this rampage go down and
00:35:02
Speaker
they decide to get out there and they're like, we may not be able to make a difference in the fight, but at least we can save lives. And that's kind of Black Samson that makes that call. And I think the only naysayer is Rudy AKA Robot. And that gives, they didn't get a ton of screen time, but it does give a little bit of nice character development there between him and Monster Girl, where she gets to remind him that he's no longer a robot anymore. And they kind of take hands and chase after the rest of them.
00:35:26
Speaker
And I think on the last episode, we were we were wondering if he was just going to like remote control them from afar, but we get to see that he's actually inside the suit. Yeah, yeah, he's definitely very much like Tony Stark in that regard. And I like that they actually said Guardians of the Globe and Adam Eve. They didn't assume she was part of the team just because she was helping out.
00:35:48
Speaker
right right right well speaking of though she still doesn't get any credit whatsoever because uh right there at the end when she reveals to both William and uh Amber that she's had a meave first of all they mistake her for duplicate all right I keep doing that I keep saying multi-kate instead of duplicate and I think that's because I did some
00:36:10
Speaker
Research and I mentioned we got that scene that when the mallers broke out of prison We saw somebody that I suspected was related to Duplicate and that guy's name is actually her brother. His name is multi Paul. So like multiple multi Paul Maybe that's why I keep doing that but duplicate get it, right? I also like like do you ever pronounce it like duplicate?
00:36:32
Speaker
That's how I've always pronounced this, duplicate. So it's like, duplicate. I don't get the Kate out of that the way I naturally say it. So it's like, oh, we'll forget, but I see what this spelling of that works. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:44
Speaker
Well, I mean, I guess outside of that scene where they decided to rally together to do that, the other big scene that they got together was when Rex decided it was time to wash the blood from the wall, and then they get the pushback from Black Sampson, but then the whole team comes at the ready, and he decides now we're finally looking like a team, so... Yeah, it was...
00:37:06
Speaker
I was really confused where that scene was leading up to. I was like, what possessed him to do that at that point? Isn't what happened more of a sign that that should have stayed there? But then I guess when they realized they died by one of their own, it was just kind of like, no, we don't need that in our memory.
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not really sure how to read it. I think it was just like given all the bloodshed that they just saw. It was like what we just went through and what we saw, what Omni man was capable of. We don't really need this reminder. There's no way we're forgetting this anytime soon. We've, we've come together through trial by fire. That's kind of how I read it. Yeah. I mean, I can only imagine how long monster goal was working and how much more time she lost out on that. Yeah. And she's training now too. So it's like, how does training work with her condition?
00:37:52
Speaker
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I know in our previous speculation, Muzzy in particular had brought up the fact that maybe the Flaxens and their time dilation could maybe be a potential solution for Monster Girl's aging problem, and while we thought that their civilization was very much wiped out,
00:38:11
Speaker
by Omni-Man. They were included in that little montage for, you know, future villains and whatnot. While we're on the subject of it, let me just kind of run through what I saw, and if anything sticks out to you, or if I forgot something, just, you know, chime in, but obviously the Flaxens look like they're returning. It looked like the Sequids on Mars, and that astronaut that got left behind on Mars is gonna come back. We got Battle Beast, Titan and Isotope,
00:38:41
Speaker
Uh, I can't remember the guy's name, but I want to say it's like Dr. Seismic or something like that. The guy that I thought was very much dead that fell into the lava. It looks like he's found a way to make like molten, molten men or something like that. Army of molten men. Anyway,
Threats and Coalition of Planets
00:38:57
Speaker
cool.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah, they do and then I mentioned DA Sinclair kind of still up in the air on what what side he's gonna end up but he seems like he's on the side of the good guys for now and then I just put immortal on there too because I mean he's very a lot faster this time around they've obviously figured out how to resurrect him but
00:39:18
Speaker
I just kind of wonder how much screen time he's going to get next season before he gets killed again. I almost feel like that's going to be just kind of his fate to show up, punch for a bit, and then get killed in a pretty gratuitous way. But who knows? That's such a weird thing for me to just get numb to. It's like, oh, here's a mortal. Let's see how he dies this time.
00:39:47
Speaker
Yeah, Sinclair is an interesting story though because it's like At one point like he gets to research for free. So I'm sure he's like happy doing that But then on the other end like what if he actually is like programming them in a way that he can take over at any point. Hmm I Wouldn't put it past him He gives the thumbs up, but I'm not buying it I'm not buying it
00:40:14
Speaker
Thumbs up with that creepy-ass smile. Right, yeah. I mean, other than that, we do get... So Mark wasn't sure if he wanted to suit up after, you know, going through this whole ordeal, obviously. It's a hell of a thing to go through. But when the time comes and he does get the call, he does suit up. And we get the return of Alan the Alien, voiced by Seth Rogen. And... I heard it more this time.
00:40:44
Speaker
OK, yeah. I called that kind of as soon as, like, when he was in there in the diner. I feel like it was, I need to rewatch that episode that he was first introduced in. But I felt like it was done in a very similar way, that basically as soon as he got the call, I knew it was happening. I knew it was going to be out on the alien again.
00:41:03
Speaker
But this time, Alan doesn't really have any information for us that we didn't know. He's kind of coming to warn Mark that there's a viltramite on Earth, which has already been dealt with. Outside of that, he plants some seeds for where the future of the series could be going in terms of like the coalition of planets. It sounds like the Green Lanterns of this universe. Oh, you think?
00:41:30
Speaker
And that's what it sounds like, the just this coalition, as they say, of planets just kind of like working together. That's what his role seems to be too, is just kind of like maintaining balance between the planets that are a part of it. And like with the Green Lanterns, it's not like every planet is part of it. Like there's other like treaties and stuff that like regulate who can go to which things.
00:41:55
Speaker
It's interesting that we have like this coalition of warriors against this Empire that's spreading a little too Okay, not now that you say that and clarify that yeah I'm on the same page as I'm on the same page with you where I see the Green Lantern Corps is more of just like
00:42:13
Speaker
overall peacekeeping and like galactic police force. I agree with you. I think this coalition is very much directly against the Viltromites, especially, um, Alan tells us that his planet was completely wiped out. And the only reason that he's alive is what his, his species has been forced to like resort to like, what do you say? Like breeding pods or something like that.
00:42:37
Speaker
I guess. Anyway, yeah, it very much seems like, you know, how many, how many civilizations have the Viltromites already destroyed, and you know, whatever little leftovers or smatterings that are still clinging to life have, have come together. So.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yeah, he definitely seems very surprised by the fact that a Viltremite has abandoned their post. So it'll be interesting to see how Nolan comes back into the picture. He's very much still out there. The last time we saw him, he was flying off into the sky and there was a really cool effect where not only the blood got burnt off of him as he went through the atmosphere, but then he leaves behind a single teardrop. So there is some shred of humanity still there. I,
00:43:22
Speaker
I wonder how the Viltremites are going to respond to him coming home. You think that's where he's going? I'm assuming so. I don't think he would go home because he talks about how he was still loyal to Viltrem. And I would think that if he were to go home, it would just be like immediate execution. So I'm more expecting him to maybe be like a fugitive on the run. Maybe he goes to one of the colonies.
00:43:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he gets some Vulture mites like coming after him and maybe that's what will cause him to eventually have to maybe the next time we see him, he's not fighting Mark again. Maybe they team up again against some other Vulture mites. I don't know. And maybe, maybe we won't even see him at all next season. Maybe we have a season two where we focus on other things entirely. I would be completely fine with that. I would definitely miss JK Simmons, you know, just the gravitas that he brings and the,
00:44:20
Speaker
and the atmosphere that he brings with his vocal performance, but it's such a rich world and rich universe already. I'm completely fine with them expanding in other ways. Like I just mentioned Battle Beasts, Michael Dorn, like he completely wrecked Shop in the episode that he popped up in. They could devote a whole season to him if they wanted to.
00:44:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I wouldn't be surprised if Nolan didn't show up at all or if only showed up in maybe one episode. Yeah. Just kind of like, uh, like, uh, like we see a lot of Earth stuff and then there was like, meanwhile, and you, but there's an episode dedicated to what Nolan's been up to in this time. All right. Yeah. I could, I could definitely see it going that way.
00:45:00
Speaker
Well, as far as just covering the season finale itself and what we took away from that, were there any other standout moments or things you wanted to mention?
00:45:13
Speaker
uh two small things one from the ending one from the beginning on the ending um i like how alan asked him like so what are you gonna do in the meantime and they go through the collage and i thought that's where the collage was gonna end and then he just goes finish high school i guess he's like oh okay what's high school right yeah that was such a funny way to wrap it up that was so good
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah, I like that too. And then I talk about how dumb I am every week and I never see the the invincible title card come up. But I actually saw it coming this time and it was still probably one of my favorite ones because he was like, I hope he lives up to his name. I hope he's actually in a cousin. I was like, oh, I like that set up the level of action that we were about to see so well.
00:46:00
Speaker
Yeah, it was Rudy this time, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because like, even though he's very monotone, like you see the concern in his voice, like in form of the context and like just the way that he delivered it, I was like, yeah, that's, that's definitely one of my favorite ones.
00:46:16
Speaker
Yeah, it was really well done. And then I felt like the amount of blood that hit the page was appropriate to the amount of blood Mark lost, because it just completely dripped. I mean, the page was already pretty covered, but it got completely soaked. So I'm curious if in season two, if we're just going to continue to add to the blood that's already there, or if they'll kind of wipe it clean for the beginning of each season, or maybe they'll have a new gimmick.
00:46:40
Speaker
Speaking of the blood, another thing was that when Nolan took Mark underwater, and you see all the blood coming off, it was a cool animation. I didn't realize the ocean cleaned off blood that easily. But I guess the suit is really slick, because even when Mark flew out to space, his clothes burned off.
00:47:01
Speaker
So it's like, okay, maybe it's just like, it's just a really slick, pan-dexy suit. Things kind of wipe off really easily. And when Mark or when Nolan took Mark to the mountain and started pounding him in over there, the way that those echoes were going, I thought there was going to be an avalanche, like killing the people at the cabin and Mark had to like watch that next. So I was like, oh, thank you for sparing me that part, at least.
00:47:24
Speaker
I think it did happen, I just don't think it was shown. I think they put that happen off camera because, yeah. All right, just take away my little happy thought. Thanks, Scotty. I'm glad they survived. No, I don't think they did okay. Yeah, about that. So how you pointed out the unanimated person in the background a couple episodes ago?
00:47:50
Speaker
Oh yeah, like the poorly rendered 3D models. There was some more of that this episode. There was, yeah. Well, when they renovated the house, it got, it got me, was the house always pink?
00:48:05
Speaker
I do not know because the amount of pink that was on the wall and on the furniture, I was like, I don't remember it being that pink. Like this, this color is really bothering me right now. What? What person did they hire to come in and make everything pink?
00:48:21
Speaker
I didn't pick up on that one this time around. First off, it just doesn't fit the aesthetic of how modern the house is. And second, they've been looking at so much blood. Like, why would you put the color to smear blood all over that? No. Yeah.
00:48:36
Speaker
that interior designer failed that was really sweet how like William came up to the door and saw like all the mail and boxes and packages and like organized it and
Personal Relationships and Live-Action Casting
00:48:49
Speaker
then when he uh when he meets um Adam Eve accidentally slips up he's like yeah I saw Mark going with Omni man oh you know okay
00:48:59
Speaker
Wait, you know He does like goes in for a hug. She's just kind of like boundaries. But yeah, yeah And then yeah mark opens the door with Amber and it's like yeah, she knows too. Okay. Does anybody not know?
00:49:17
Speaker
Yeah, I still don't like the relationship and it's just kind of like, hey, I know you almost died, but I'm just gonna get in your space and kiss you and just tell you that we're back in a relationship. Yeah, Muzzy brought that up too and I'll concede that it rang a little false to me as well. But again, I felt like they did a really nice job with their character for the most part.
00:49:39
Speaker
She could have come across as very unlikable, but I, more often than not, I found myself sympathizing with her and understanding where she was coming from. It did feel a little unearned how they were just back together like that, but I'm hoping that's for a reason. And I'm hoping, um, we see that pay off in season two. So. Yeah. I also hope that, um, Adam Eve and Rex don't get back together because you see them have a little moment when they came in. Like, no, I'm glad you mentioned that too. Yeah. He's like, Oh Jesus Christ, you're okay. And she's like, yeah, just very receptive to him.
00:50:09
Speaker
Yeah. I hope that's just his friends because she did end up going back home by herself. Yeah. Yeah. Her tree house. I love that tree house. I want that tree house. I hate it. I don't know how I'd get up there, but I need it. Such a, this was poor plan. Oh man. Well, any other, any other predictions for, for season two or three before we kind of bring things to a close here?
00:50:39
Speaker
We'll have a episode where we do more of a full-on season review and speculation for seasons two and three when we can get Muzzy back in. But if you have anything else, you just kind of want to... Nah, I'm just excited to hear everybody's feedback and what everybody else thought of the show because the people I see in person haven't watched it yet and it drives me nuts because how do you not talk about the show?
00:51:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's the thing too. I'm hoping that it kind of follows a similar trajectory to the boys, where there was a fair amount of buzz around the first season, but not everybody watched it right off the bat. And then by the time season two came around, I felt like, you know, the doors blew wide open and everybody was on board. I'm kind of hoping Invincible will follow a similar trajectory there. Yeah, but we'll see.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yeah, but on the subject of feedback I will go ahead and let everybody know because I'm going to try to have this Podcast out the same day that we record so that'll give you guys plenty of time to submit your feedback If you want to send us feedback, you can always do that in the stranded panda chat In addition to that you can hit us up at animation deliberation podcast at gmail.com
00:51:51
Speaker
Or you can always, you know, just tag myself if you if you're friends with me on Facebook or if you find me on Twitter It's at J. Scott for real J s c o t t number 4 r e e l or you can head up the the podcasts Twitter handle at animation the lib 1 number 1 so animation d e l ib number 1 and
00:52:15
Speaker
What's actually on the subject of feedback? Let's hit some feedback that we got from one of our listeners, and that will be from 084. I know 084 is a name that I've heard for quite some time and I've seen in the Twitch streams and whatnot, so we appreciate you, 084. Let's get into it. They say,
00:52:34
Speaker
What's up guys? Finale was crazy. In an episode and season filled with insane gratuitous death, they somehow topped themselves with that brutal train scene. I had hoped that Omni-Man's motivations were much less mustache-twirly, but they still got me emotion-wise. Particularly with the pet line. I also liked that Invincible didn't miraculously win the fight with brute strength and instead it ended with a small inner conflict with Omni-Man.
00:52:59
Speaker
You mentioned fan cast for the live action movie and I thought I'd throw my thoughts out there. Oh, this will be fun. So for Mark, he's got Ryan Potter. Google, Google, Google. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know Ryan Potter off the top of my head.
00:53:14
Speaker
while you're looking that up I'll go ahead and say yeah there's a few of these I don't I don't recognize so good on you for some deep cuts here for Nolan he says Adrian pastar who I do not know Debbie Sandra Oh why recast hey I'm with you she's pretty much perfect Eve he says Millie Bobby Brown
00:53:35
Speaker
I could potentially see it. Cecil, he's got Brad Doreff. That's a pretty good call. And Monster Girl, Akira Akbar. That's all I got. I will point out that putting together this list has me thinking that they're going to have such a hard time putting this into live action. If only for the near impossible task of matching the talent of the voice cast, they might be better served to go with unknowns for the most, excuse me, they might be better served to go with unknowns for most of the cast. Until next time.
00:54:04
Speaker
Well, thank you, 8-4. So Ryan Potter played Gar, Beast Boy in the Titan series. Oh, wow. Yeah, I did enjoy him in that. So I could see it. OK. I think he could be a little more animated. But he also did play, he voiced Hero in Big Hero 6. Oh, OK. Yeah. Well, based on that vocal performance, he'd be pretty great.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah, so that alone kind of shows he has the ability to be a little more, god damn it, cartoony. I can't think of words that aren't puns. Now, I'm just going to ask you something. This may be something you have no reference to whatsoever, but I know a couple of maybe better part like three or four years ago now, when Ben Affleck was very much still like DC's Batman, there was a young actor that submitted like his
00:55:01
Speaker
real for Robin to Ben Affleck. I remember he got some buzz on social media. I think that might have been Ryan Potter now that I'm hearing more about him. But hey, if you're listening to this and you know that that's the case, send us some feedback and let me know if I was right or not. That would be really cool if like they sent it to him. But like the movies weren't interested and they just passed along to the TV department. Oh, and we're like, hey, can you use them for anything?
00:55:30
Speaker
That would be pretty interesting if that was the yeah cuz he's on with Robin Yeah, yeah, I mean Jason Todd are both on that show Well, who was it? It was a not to get too off the rails here, but just thinking about Shang-Chi and Simu Liu the way he got that role is like I guess like a year before he got cast he just like put it out there he like tagged Marvel and like
00:55:56
Speaker
All his social media posts were just like, my dream is to be in a Marvel movie.
00:56:03
Speaker
He got it. Anyway, as far as we know, that invincible live action adaptation is technically still in the works, but given the success of this animated series, they may put it on the back burner or it may get fast-tracked. It'll be pretty interesting to see. I'm good with the animated version for the time being.
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah, if it ain't broke. Right, right. Okay, well, I believe that's going to bring our conversation to a close here. I've already kind of plugged myself. Excuse me, I've already kind of plugged my stuff. So I will just remind you folks, yeah, right? Didn't come off across, didn't come across the way I wanted. I was trying to keep my mouth shut, I couldn't. You're good, you're good.
00:57:00
Speaker
But yeah, I will take this opportunity to just remind you folks about the Stranded Panda Network. Go to strandedpanda.com, check out all the wonderful shows that are happening there. You know, the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast, the Star Wars Universe podcast, who we are actually teaming up with to do some coverage for The Bad Batch, which will be dropping soon. So we kind of...
00:57:20
Speaker
have Invincible coming to a close and it's perfect timing for another series to get going. And we know that MODOK's just around the corner in addition to all the other great shows you guys have let us know that you want us to tackle. I know My Hero Academia and Demon Slayer are pretty popular these days. Without a mind, Zuhaer, you had the opportunity to do some Demon Slayer coverage. Do you want to talk about that at all?
00:57:43
Speaker
Yeah, so I finished my binge. My buddy told me, hey, the movie comes out in theaters on this date. Watch the whole series. Season one's on Netflix. And we're going to go watch this. It wasn't an option. So I was like, well, that moved up on my list. I binged it. I loved every second of it. That anime is amazing.
00:58:05
Speaker
If you haven't watched it, please go check it out. It is only one season as of this time. It is on Netflix and Hulu, so you have your options. And it was great going to the movie theaters again. That was definitely a movie worth watching in theaters if you have the option. And if you were comfortable in going, man, it was really good. The comedy, the story, the action, just the design and the fluidity of everything. I cried, I laughed.
00:58:34
Speaker
really good and thankfully I had the option to talk to Sarah Day McDougal and we just broke down the movie and just talked about all the pros and cons and just how much we love a good animated series. So check out that episode featuring Sarah Day. Email Jay Scottie to tell him to watch the series so that we can play stocks as well and
00:59:00
Speaker
Yeah, let us know what you think of that. What did you think of Demon Slayer and what your favorite anime are? Because I would love to talk about it. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to watch the show and to listen to what you guys had to say about it. So one more time, I'll just say StrandedPanda.com, youtube.com slash StrandedPanda and twitch.tv slash StrandedPandaTV. Thanks for tuning in.
00:59:27
Speaker
Stay Welled.
00:59:52
Speaker
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01:00:20
Speaker
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