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IEP Madness (part 1 of 2)
33 Plays9 months ago
Having a child struggling in school, or just to get to school is challenging. Advocating for them can be an easy process, or it can be absolutely maddening. And don't get us started on all the acronyms! Lisa Baskin-Wright turned her struggles in going through the IEP process with her own child into a business where she advocates for the child alongside the parents. She explains the process, the acronyms, how to advocate for your child, and how to know when to call in the experts. So much great info we put it this into 2 episodes! Part 1 of 2
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Transcript
Introduction to Lisa Baskin-Wright and Her Work
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Mom Tabulous. I'm your host, Sharla Mandare. And today with me is Lisa Baskin Wright. Lisa is a former teacher and parent to two children, a neurotypical young adult and an autistic teen.
00:00:29
Speaker
and supports families through the IEP process, helping parents and caregivers feel more confident at the IEP table. Lisa takes a collaborative approach that focuses on getting curious about the child and what kind of an environment they need to thrive. She is neurodiversity affirming and centers the lived experience of the child. In short, her approach is collaborative, neurodiversity affirming, quality of life centered,
00:00:58
Speaker
learner centered and accommodation, not compliance focused. I love this and I am so glad you're here. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here too. Yes.
Understanding IEPs and Their Purpose
00:01:15
Speaker
So let's get into this for someone who may not be familiar
00:01:19
Speaker
What is an IEP? And then there's also something called a 504. So we can talk about like the difference of those. But for someone who may not be aware or someone maybe just starting the process, can you like lay it out? What exactly is it and who needs it? The whole thing.
00:01:40
Speaker
The whole shebang. So IEP stands for Individualized Education Plan. Some people call it an Individualized Education Program. Basically what it is, is for a neurodivergent or disabled learner who needs specialized support in order to access their education. The process can look different kind of depending on where you are in the United States, but that initial piece is
00:02:10
Speaker
you would seek out the program specialist, the school administrator, the school psychologist, whomever it may be, and request in writing a full evaluation for special education services.
IEPs vs 504 Plans: Key Differences
00:02:24
Speaker
So let's say you have a young learner who is
00:02:28
Speaker
struggling in a particular academic area, or they're struggling socially, or perhaps there's a high degree of school refusal, something that's impacting their access to learning, you would seek out this evaluation process to find out if there's an underlying disability that is informing their access to education. The process always begins with written consent from a parent. That is uniform across the United States.
00:02:58
Speaker
The timeline is 60 days from the point of signature to complete all the evaluations to then hold a meeting to determine eligibility. There is an over-writing, if that's the right word, there's federal law that guides special education called the IDEA, which stands for Individuals with Disabilities and Education Act.
00:03:21
Speaker
And within the IDEA, there are 13 eligibility categories. And so what the team would be doing through this evaluation process is determining whether or not this learner meets eligibility criteria for one or more of those categories. You only need to meet the criteria for one in order to access services and supports.
00:03:48
Speaker
Then there's something separate called a 504, which is section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. And it doesn't fall under the umbrella of the IDEA. And so in layman's terms, the kind of big distinction between the two is that an IEP includes goals and direct services to the learner.
00:04:11
Speaker
And a 504 is strictly accommodations and really falls more into the umbrella of general education services.
Managing Anxiety During IEP Evaluations
00:04:19
Speaker
So an accommodation is something like extra time, preferential seating, so maybe being near the teacher or in a quieter space. An accommodation is really anything that doesn't change the curriculum itself. Accommodations exist within an IEP as well.
00:04:37
Speaker
But that distinction has been made that this child needs direct support, whether that's academic, whether that's social-emotional, whether that's adaptive living skills. There's some sort of direct teaching that needs to happen for the child that meets the eligibility criteria for an IEP. And with a 504, that determination hasn't been made. And so we just need to make some accommodations to help this learner access their education.
00:05:02
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. Okay. It's a lot. It's a lot of info. It's a lot to take in, right? But basically a 504 is just someone might be struggling a little bit, like sit closer to the teacher so they can help focus a little bit or something like that, right? Um, if you're, if you're having a hard time getting them there in the morning, maybe no tardy, would that be an accommodation? You know, of like, if you're five minutes late, that, that stress is off the table kind of thing.
00:05:29
Speaker
Absolutely. Then the IEP is like this very individual plan. Now, I know within that 60 days that they have to do the testing, there's a lot of waiting in that. There's a lot of anxiety from the parents. We went through this process with my youngest last year, and it was very stressful to wait. They didn't even start testing her for like 30. I had to tell the school, aren't you supposed to be testing? I'm getting her here.
00:05:59
Speaker
Let's, let's start this testing. And it was, they were like, well, there's other kids, you know, that they were finishing, which is fair and understandable. But what can parents do in that meantime, when you know, your child needs something, they need, is that where the 504 comes into play?
00:06:14
Speaker
It can. It can. So there's something called RTI. If there is one thing about special education, it's incredibly acronym heavy, which is actually anxiety producing for families,
Navigating Educational Jargon and Advocacy
00:06:26
Speaker
right? You're new to this process. And all of a sudden, you're having all these acronyms thrown at you. And you're like, Oh, my goodness, not only am I trying to support my child who is struggling to access their education,
00:06:36
Speaker
there's maybe an uptick in emotional upset at home or you know, like life is stressful. And now I don't speak this language either. It's very overwhelming. It isn't very, it's a different language. It's a whole different and they just throw the for my experience at the school that we were at. They just when I pulled my child was not handled in my opinion. Well, but we you know, they were just throwing this stuff out like
00:07:02
Speaker
almost like when you're talking to like a brain surgeon, right? And they're like, we're just gonna, and you're like, hold on, am I going to be able to see walk here? Is there a chance that if you're a millimeter off, I lose my ability to speak like, and then they're like, we're not even near that part of the brain, whatever, you know, I don't know what part of the brain you're right. So, you know, they are throwing this language at you. And it's, it's so difficult because you want to support your child, you want to help your child. And
00:07:32
Speaker
and you feel very lost. So this is where hiring someone like you comes into play to have someone who knows this language very well, right? And has someone to advocate for you and almost kind of fight a bit on your behalf, right? Because I didn't have that and I wish I did. People told me to, I thought I have two PTA positions. I'm on the school site council. I volunteer at the school all the time. I'm running the school fun run. I'm planning the school dance. There is no way they're going to like,
00:08:00
Speaker
pull A, B or C with us. And they pulled every letter of the alphabet on us. They did not care. And, and, and I kept thinking, I don't need it. It's okay because we have this relationship and they know us really well. And that's not at all what happened. Um, so, you know, having someone to advocate, to speak the language, to say, no, that's not how this works. Cause I feel like some schools, not all some,
00:08:26
Speaker
our experience is they'll kind of pull a fast one on you, right? Of like they take advantage of the fact that you don't know this process, that you're not lawyered up. And so having someone to speak this language is really helpful and important.
The Importance of Advocacy in Schools
00:08:44
Speaker
And, but if a parent can't afford that or, you know, like me is like, let me give it some time and trust the process with the school and see what, what they're going to do. What do we do?
00:08:56
Speaker
Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. And certainly, you know, my daughter is now 18. So when we were engaging in this process, it was it was many years ago, and social media existed, but not
00:09:08
Speaker
in the same way and people weren't having these conversations out loud. And I was just talking with somebody yesterday about the fear of retribution. And I think that some of what you experienced last year was I have this relationship. I don't want to sour that relationship. I want to engage in this process with
00:09:27
Speaker
fidelity and an open mind and trust that this is going to go well and I think that we get into this place of kind of binary thinking that if I start to ask the question and say hey wait a second I don't know what you're talking about or hey you know you may know what you're talking about but I'm not tracking it and there's something in my gut that's telling me this isn't quite right I need you to slow down and sort of explain this to me so that I can make informed decisions
00:09:52
Speaker
This doesn't sound right, doesn't feel right. I literally just put a post out today on Instagram that said so much of what happens in a school district is a bad habit. But the folks that are engaging in the bad habit actually think they're following policy, because that bad habit has been in place for so long. And
00:10:13
Speaker
you know, giving all kinds of grace that I actually think is really warranted in most situations. This system, there's a design fail, right? Like there are flaws in the design of public schools. They were not created to support neurodivergent and disabled learners. And so folks are there trying to do the best they can. I really do feel like people go into education because they are curious about how kids learn.
00:10:40
Speaker
They want to be part of that learning process. There is really good intent that drives someone towards education as a career path. It just isn't money for sure. And it definitely isn't, oh, I'd love to hurt kids, sign me up. I mean, that's just not it, right? I mean, we laugh, but it's true. And yet, for so many parents and caregivers,
00:11:02
Speaker
the experience is as painful as yours was or as mine was when my daughter was younger. And so one of the benefits of our current landscape is there are a lot of people like me who are turning our kind of sour experience into an opportunity to help educate others. And there's a lot of forward facing, not behind a paywall, free content,
00:11:28
Speaker
in places like Instagram that can be really helpful. I will say that with a caveat that don't believe everything you see on the internet, because I do think it's quite common practice in face groups, like parent face groups, where someone will present a very legitimate concern or problem. And the response is, you need a lawyer. And as somebody who had to have legal counsel,
00:11:57
Speaker
I share this from a deep pain point. Most of the time you don't.
Understanding the Independent Education Evaluation (IEE) Process
00:12:02
Speaker
Most of the time the team thinks that the know that they're telling you is how it's done. I'm using air quotes for those of you who cannot see me.
00:12:14
Speaker
And they think they're following the law or they're following the policy because they were told this is how you do it. But really it's a badly ingrained habit. So one strategy when you're in that space and you're being told no or something's coming at you that makes no sense is you just press pause and you can say really as calmly as you can muster in the moment of big feelings, gosh, that's not landing right. Or that doesn't make sense to me. Or that's a bit confusing.
00:12:43
Speaker
I think we're in agreement about the need or the concern. So I'm not understanding the no, could you provide me the policy so that I can read through it to better verse myself on kind of the decisions that are being made in this space. Yeah. Right. I'm coming in uneven you you you're understanding a special education and how this all works. This is your
00:13:07
Speaker
This is your expertise. This is your world. I'm not a teacher. I don't work in education. I'm new to this, right? So how can I better educate myself on this process? And most of the time, not all of the time, most of the time there is no such policy.
00:13:25
Speaker
So if you approach it with that kind of humility and grace and vulnerability versus that sounds like absolute trash and nonsense, like I need to speak to the manager type attitude, what you possibly will do is get that team to kind of stop and go, wait a second, what policy am I following? And does it have to be this way? And oh my goodness, am I gatekeeping where I don't need to be?
00:13:55
Speaker
Right? We can't imagine something that's never been if we're not sort of thrown into disequilibrium to consider. So kind of back to this idea of what do I do in the interim when I've got a child that's really struggling and we're trying to get evaluations done because absolutely right. That is so anxiety producing. There is something called RTI.
00:14:20
Speaker
which stands for response to intervention. And so there is a way through this RTI, which is general education, like it falls under that umbrella, to provide special education support while an evaluation is happening. So let's say you have a child that's really struggling to access a particular academic area. Maybe they're having a really hard time with writing or reading. Can we provide
00:14:49
Speaker
some reading support or can we provide some support with a special education teacher for writing or for math or whatever it may be. I have a family right now where this is being offered at 20 minutes a day with the reading specialist. Great there's a goal associated with it which means there's data collection associated with it and there's a timeline. We're going to come back to the table in six weeks. We're going to come back to the table in eight weeks. We're going to
00:15:17
Speaker
have this information when we gather at the end of the 60 days as part of the other information that we're gathering to say, oh, you know, when we did 20 minutes a day of reading support, the needle really didn't move very much. That's going to inform our decision around eligibility so that we can provide that specialized academic support that this learner is demonstrating that they really do need.
00:15:39
Speaker
So there are some ways in between when you get that firm know like let's say you've made it through the 60 days, you come to the IEP table and they're like, Lisa's great and she just needs a little extra cheerleading and encouragement but right and you as the parent feel totally gaslit as
00:15:56
Speaker
parent of Lisa who's unraveling every single day and we're struggling to get Lisa to campus and like all the things you're at a fork in the road so you have kind of two paths you can take but they can happen simultaneously and this is where a 504 or RTI can also come into play.
Steps to Take if an IEP is Denied
00:16:14
Speaker
When you do not agree with the evaluation that's been done or you don't agree with the conclusions that have been drawn you are entitled to what's called
00:16:23
Speaker
independent education evaluation. Another acronym, it's often referred to as an IEE. I know, it's funny, Charlotte's laughing for those of you who cannot see her because the whole thing is acronym. But basically what that is, and it would be in your procedural safeguards, which is a packet of information that kind of tells you your rights.
00:16:44
Speaker
that you are given at the beginning of every IEP meeting, there was a running joke in the district that we used to live in where it was always on pink paper. So it was like, if I get another stack of pink papers, like I'm gonna lose my marbles, they're not always pink, but in this particular district. Anyway, within that, you are entitled to this IE. And basically what that means is if you don't agree, you can at public expense, meaning the district pays for it, request
00:17:14
Speaker
like a reevaluation by a provider that you choose. So let's say you don't agree with the academic or psychological testing, or they did occupational therapy, fine motor type testing, and you're like, no, or speech. They have two choices when you make that request, which you always want to make this request in writing. Everything should be in writing. There's sort of a running joke in special education. If it's not in writing, it didn't happen.
00:17:39
Speaker
it's like more true than it isn't. You make the request in writing, they have two choices. They can either say, and this is what happens 99.9% of the time, we stand by our evaluation, but to avoid conflict, we will grant the IE.
00:17:54
Speaker
Option number two is they can take you to due process, which is, it sounds like taking you to court or suing you. It's different sort of rules within education, but you can always just withdraw the request if you don't want to pursue the due process. Some people are like, fine, and they pull up their sleeves and they do get an attorney because you would need that representation for a legal process. But I've only seen it happen one time and there were all kinds of extraneous
00:18:25
Speaker
circumstances that informed that district's decision. And they did not realize that this parent had me in their back pocket. So when I showed up with the parent at the preliminary hearing, we got it settled at the preliminary hearing. So it never really made it very far, but every other time
00:18:46
Speaker
there's a sort of face-saving move of like, we think we did so great, but we'll appease you. And then every district has guidelines for what that looks like. So that's one choice. The other choice is to say, okay, we'll accept the denial in this moment, but we would like to put the 504 into place. So we would like to start some RTI support and then reconvene in 60 days, 90 days, whatever it may be.
00:19:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It is quite a maddening process, right? When you are trying to advocate for your child and there are lots of options, which is great, but we don't know all the options. You know, it's easy to feel railroaded. It's easy to feel like you're saying gasoline. It's easy to feel like you're being taken advantage of and that they don't have your child's best interest in mind.
Advocating Without Conflict
00:19:36
Speaker
And as a parent,
00:19:37
Speaker
You do. You're just like, just help my kid. This is the thing. Just help them. They're supposed to be here and I'm getting them here. Maybe it's a big fight. Maybe it's a battle to get here and we're here. So aren't you supposed to be helping them? And the red tape is quite maddening. So how can you advocate for your child without becoming a target?
00:20:01
Speaker
at the school, right, of like, I just got to a point where I felt like every time I walked in the office, even if it was to bring her sister, you know, water bottle or something that she forgot, it was like, Oh, God, here's I mean, people would walk out of the office. And I was like, you guys, come on, you know, and then her sister started becoming a bit of a target we felt right. And that, you know, so how can you advocate for your child without
00:20:28
Speaker
your child becoming a target, their sibling becoming a target if they're at the same school or you as the parent being, quote unquote, made the bad guy here for advocating. I'll say advocating instead of fighting, but advocating for your baby, right?
00:20:48
Speaker
It is so painful. I had the same experience for years where you just want to scream from the rooftops. I'm a nice person. I mean, and I'm a teacher and I come from a family of teachers. I mean, I just, quick side story. I just turned 50 the other day and my.
00:21:04
Speaker
parents and husband and family put together this beautiful scrapbook and 80 to 90% of the people that sent in a contribution to this scrapbook were teachers. And so many of them were former colleagues of mine. And it was like, it's amazing to me that sometimes I'll put something out in social media and teachers interpret it as me being really disrespectful.
00:21:26
Speaker
or I think back to those years when my daughter was younger and people thought I was so anti-teacher and it's just so far from the truth. It's like, I'm one of you, but like even without that, right? Even somebody that never has worked in education and doesn't come from this long line of public school teachers as I do. To me, I feel like it's important as hard as it is to kind of name the elephant in the room and to say, I'm feeling overwhelmed by this process
00:21:57
Speaker
I truly want to engage in collaboration with you and I'm feeling like my concerns are being unheard. I'm feeling like we don't have a shared understanding of who my child is. And this, that last piece, that shared understanding piece has just been such a light bulb moment I've been having lately that I feel like that's the biggest hurdle is that we as the parents and caregivers have one understanding
00:22:27
Speaker
of who our child is and what they're experiencing and kind of their emotional state, how they learn all the things. And this school has a different understanding and that's where the chasm is. And so how do we get to a place where we are always holding that child's humanity center? And I think what happens, especially when
00:22:52
Speaker
I'm gonna use the word behavior even though it's probably my least favorite word in this context. The behavior's inconsistent, right? So we have a learner that can sometimes come to school, but other times can't. Or there's like big feelings happening at home and it's very difficult to get that child to campus. But once they come to campus, again with the air quotes
Post-Pandemic Challenges in Education
00:23:13
Speaker
from me. They're fine. They're fine, right? Okay. We were talking all the time. She's fine when she's here. You just have to get her here.
00:23:21
Speaker
It was like, I'm not seeing. Exactly. So in that situation, we've got a really sensitive learner. We've got somebody with high degrees of anxiety or what often is referred to as sensitive neuroception. They're sort of subconsciously, unconsciously scanning for threat in the environment. And when they perceive it, like there's nervous system activation, that whole like fine at school, not fine at home, often we refer to as masking.
00:23:50
Speaker
So the learner doesn't perceive safety in the school environment. And so their go to sort of nervous system response is to freeze or fawn. And so they're mimicking the social norms of what they're seeing at school, or they're holding it together, so to speak, at school.
00:24:07
Speaker
And then when they are with their safe people in their safe environment, kind of the truth is, is coming out differently. He saw that a lot too in like kindergarten, right? Like her, when her older sister started kindergarten, she'd come home from school and have these meltdowns. And I was like, what is going on? And they were like,
00:24:23
Speaker
She's holding it together all day at school and then comes home where she feels safe and just, you know. Right. That's it all out. Exactly. And I think that there's sort of layers to this that there may be some understanding, like you were saying when your older child was younger, that the team or the teacher, whoever it was, she wasn't on an IEP, weren't engaging in that process. But like her teacher would say, oh, she's holding it together and then you're seeing this at home. And okay.
00:24:49
Speaker
And we just were told that's just part of the transition to kindergarten. Like as the transition in kids' school, which I think on some level with her sister, it was, you know, but when you're in like fifth grade, you know, do you feel like some of this is like, are you seeing more of this post pandemic? Well, in all fairness, I started doing this work post pandemic. So I don't have a fair analysis from before. I mean, our experience with my child being younger was definitely pre pandemic.
00:25:18
Speaker
And definitely, we personally experienced the high degrees of masking and the melting down at home and the we just don't see it and she's great. And what are you talking about? Yeah, what concerns me about that narrative. There's several things that kind of concern me about that narrative. But one of them is it can go down this slippery slope towards that sounds like a home problem.
Dealing with Gaslighting in Schools
00:25:43
Speaker
right? So here's where you can go to pay for outside services, or maybe you need some parent coaching, or right, and so it almost feels like a criminalization of your parenting.
00:25:56
Speaker
Which feels really awful. Which by the way, because of the nature of what I do, my husband and I wrote, we had all the therapy. My husband and I were doing parent coaching because we had a new teenager and that, you know, it was like, Oh my God, I got it. You know, we've got a, I am all about the self care and the support. And what I've paid for coaches over the course of the last five years is an astronomical and I'm happy to do it. Right. And so, you know, my response was like, we are, and
00:26:25
Speaker
And again, this doesn't happen on any other level except with school. Right. Exactly. You know, yeah. And like we tried medicating, which I didn't necessarily want to do and didn't really help her. And now I know why it didn't help her. But I was like, I feel like I'm medicating her to I'm forcing medicine on her. She didn't want to take enforcing medicine on her to get her to walk into what feels like a toxic situation for her.
00:26:55
Speaker
And if I was as an adult in a job that felt toxic like that, and I had the ability to, I would quit. Of course. I would find another job. Of course. I have left jobs that felt toxic. And I thought this just can't be the only option, right? And I know not everyone has that situation. Some people, you know, this is the school that, the only option. So.
00:27:24
Speaker
When it feels so toxic, it's hard and you're trying to advocate and you're trying to be kind and fair and respectful and you're getting gaslit and walked all over. And then they make you like you're doing something wrong at home. It's your fault. They made it her fault. I'm like, she's 10 at the time. She's 10. Right. So none of this is her fault. Exactly. And please stop blaming her because
00:27:52
Speaker
you're not doing your thing. And they almost force you into a position to where you become this person that they think you are of this like
00:28:03
Speaker
like really angry, really, you know, you're forcing me to talk to you in a very stern manner. You're forcing me almost into yelling. At one point I remember standing in the office of the school going, all I'm asking for is a little bit of help here. Like I just was like, I'm just asking you to think outside the box for five minutes to help her. And they rolled their eyes and walked away.
00:28:33
Speaker
We're done. We're done. With the public school system in general, there is a very in-the-box way of thinking. And we're out of school now where they're able to think outside the box and support her. And it is night and day, very, very, very, very different.
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah, no. And I think just sort of quickly going back to that, finding that shared understanding, my advice is incredibly counterintuitive. But I think it's really important.
Fostering Vulnerability and Understanding
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah, my advice in that situation is to get more vulnerable, to try to relate to their perspective of quote unquote, not seeing it, to say, you know, it took me a moment to write it took me a moment to not have the reaction of
00:29:19
Speaker
You can't be that upset about it. It's just school, you've gone your whole life, right? So I had to go through kind of an unlearning process as well. And what I have found is when I take this approach, I'm able to kind of co-regulate with her and get her to a place where she perceives safety and that anxiety calms down. I have found when I take the approach that assumes she has control in that moment,
00:29:49
Speaker
it backfires every time. So I'm sharing with you that although she may appear fine at school, I get it because it's confusing to me too as a parent in those moments where she seems happy and fine and calm and capable and all the things.
00:30:07
Speaker
that the next day she can't do that same thing or the next day we're right back to a really like deep trench of anxiety to not go to wait a second oh my goodness yesterday you could and as I've learned how to parent differently the relationship with my daughter has shifted so drastically for the positive and I want that for her with you and I want that for her with
00:30:32
Speaker
her at school with you. And so it is critical for us to get to a place where we understand that while she may appear fine in this situation, she is her 24 seven 365 days a week.
00:30:50
Speaker
And there are certain times where her cumulative stress levels are higher than others, which is why there's an inconsistency. There are times where she feels safer than others. There are times where her stress or anxiety looks more like a freeze or a fawn. And at home, it maybe looks more fight or flight.
00:31:10
Speaker
but nervous system activation is happening, anxiety is happening kind of for her across the board. And so I need us, I'm essentially begging you to look at this through the lens of nervous system disability or through anxiety or whatever it may be, instead of willful behavior. We are not gonna get her to not be anxious through tough love and discipline. That's not how this works.
00:31:37
Speaker
She's in her survival brain. She's not in her thinking brain. If we want her in her thinking brain, we have to cue safety. Yes. But it's, that's the first domino. And so that's kind of the hill to die on is how do we get to this place of shared understanding and how are you going to demonize a parent that's saying, I desperately want to work with you. And I'm sharing this vulnerability with you so that we can get to this place of understanding who my child is. I know you came to this work.
00:32:07
Speaker
because you care about my child. And unfortunately, this stance that you're taking is in direct contradiction to why you chose this work in the first place. Wow, that is so much information. We have so much more we can talk about on this topic. Join us for episode number two of IEP Madness with Lisa Baskin-Wright coming up next.