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Be a model - for your kids
21 Plays14 days ago
Join the fabulous Rosalyn Rourke, MSW, and me as we dive into a whirlwind of topics—from tackling grief and loss to nurturing healthy teens who rock positive vibes with their bodies! Plus, we're dishing out tips on body image and how to be the ultimate role model for them.
Rosalyn is a best selling author and has worked deeply in the field of mental health and trauma therapy as a psychotherapist with a focus on trauma work, eating disorders and body dysmorphia.Rosalyn continues to inspire and empower individuals on their path to self-discovery and freedom, as a Oneness Coach.
For an easy read and a deepening of Rosalyn’s teachings, check out her Best Selling book here:
To learn more about Rosalyn’s creative and inspired style, visit: rosalynrourke.com where you can purchase her Best Selling Book: When Wisdom Arrives: From Imagined Unworthiness to Freedom
You can also find her on social media in several places:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rosalyn.rourke
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rosalynrourke/
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Transcript
Introduction to Rosalind Rourke
00:00:01
smandere1
Hello and welcome back to Mom Tabulous. I'm Sharla Mandare. And with me today, I have the amazing Rosalind Rourke, MSW. Rosalind has worked deeply in the field of mental health and trauma therapy. As a psychotherapist, she has a master's degree from Smith College for Social Work.
00:00:22
smandere1
and has had an extinguished career that where she worked at Yale, specializing in psychiatry, and she has done EMDR, I love EMDR therapy.
00:00:36
smandere1
she
00:00:36
rosalyn rourke
Me
00:00:38
smandere1
the eye movement desensitization reprogramming, if you don't know what that is, maybe we'll talk about that a little bit later, and and has advanced training in eating disorders, focusing on binge eating and body dysmorphia.
Family's Holocaust Survival and Career Influence
00:00:50
smandere1
And we are talking about teen girls. This is right on point. I'm so glad to have you here. Welcome, Rosalind.
00:00:57
rosalyn rourke
Thank you so much, yeah.
00:00:59
rosalyn rourke
Great to be here.
00:01:01
smandere1
Yes. So, um, I know I just read a little of your bio, but share with, share with us some of your background and what got you like into, you know, the, the, I mean, the psychotherapy and the evenness and the, you know, all of it.
00:01:15
rosalyn rourke
That's a great question. because when So my parents went through the Holocaust and they came to this country as newlyweds with no language and left everything behind.
00:01:28
rosalyn rourke
No money, nothing. They gave they came on the last boat that left Germany. So
00:01:34
smandere1
Wow.
00:01:36
rosalyn rourke
They, went when when I came along and my sister came along, of course they wanted to protect us from this horrendous background. So this is really important because probably none of your viewers, you know because of the different age difference, they wouldn't have gone through this. But many of your listeners are protecting their children from trauma, from past experiences.
Intuitive Childhood and Parental Impact
00:02:04
rosalyn rourke
And what my parents did was shield us rather than talk about it in an age-appropriate way. So the beginning was my mother, I sensed, I was a highly sensitive child. I would follow her around. Maybe I was eight.
00:02:26
rosalyn rourke
and say, what's wrong? And she'd say nothing. And then it almost became a compulsion because I would ask again. like I'd follow her and say, what's wrong? As though she hadn't just said nothing because my antenna said she was depressed. I didn't have the language. I knew something was wrong. And so fast forward.
Career Path in Mental Health
00:02:51
rosalyn rourke
I went to the wrong college in the sense of it was wrong for me. I had a boyfriend who went to Berkeley and he I was in New York and he could have gone to Columbia. So anybody could have said, look, he doesn't want to continue the relationship. He could have stayed here. He chose to Berkeley, but I was on my own and going to follow him. might I didn't get any advice. Anyway, I went to the wrong school.
00:03:21
rosalyn rourke
when I came home my parents I was a mess it was not going well it was the wrong school for me all the my parents did their best parenting ever and said you're not going back so this is the long answer to your question is when I went to night school like you compare Berkeley to night school. One has prestige, one has none. I got the best education. And then I met a psychiatric social worker. I would have become something else probably. And she opened me to psychiatry, mental health, right in college. I loved her, loved her thinking.
00:04:07
rosalyn rourke
I got a job in a psychiatric hospital. So that started it all. And then I went to graduate school. But I've always been interested in suffering. And what are the alternatives to suffering?
00:04:23
smandere1
Yeah. Wow. I love that. Thank you for sharing that part of your story too. That's amazing. Your parents were on the last boat. I didn't know that. That's like, whoa, right?
00:04:34
smandere1
Like that's crazy to think about the very last boat leaving Jordan.
00:04:37
rosalyn rourke
Yeah.
00:04:40
smandere1
You know, and I love to like, when I have a guest on and we have all these parallels, like my first major in college was psychology and I had this big life event happen and I told my parents I'm gonna take a year off and figure myself out.
00:04:47
rosalyn rourke
oh
00:04:52
smandere1
And I worked two jobs and I, And I, and they they were, I said, give me one year. I needed a gap year. Give me one year. And they were like, you won't go back. And I said, I will go back just one year. And at the end of the year, I sat my parents down and I was like, okay, I'm going back to school, but I don't want to be a psychologist. I'm not, i'm I'm not going to be a doctor.
00:05:11
smandere1
I'm going to be an actor. I'm going back for that. My parents were so like, I think they were just like, go back to school, whatever, like, yeah, yay. and But I'm going to get my degree in theater and that led into a whole career for me for a long time. so
00:05:24
rosalyn rourke
That was just right. You can tell that you needed to do that work. I mean, even when you used your voice to introduce to introduce me and read the bio.
00:05:36
rosalyn rourke
I mean, you've got talent, you know, like that voice was amazing. That was the best reading of my bio that I've heard anywhere.
00:05:45
smandere1
Well, thank you. Thank you.
00:05:46
rosalyn rourke
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:48
smandere1
So so I love like you have so much experience and so much talent in in and background in this
Challenges in Developing Positive Body Image
00:05:55
smandere1
therapy. And so we're talking to the podcast for moms, and you, you know, our mom and a grandma you told me, which is awesome.
00:06:02
smandere1
And so, you know, we're talking about but what we kind of discussed and prepared to talk about is like talking about our teen girls and their body image and You have this whole background with eating disorders and body dysmorphia. And so, you know, how can we best help these girls? Like I have a 14 year old and an 11 year old and, you know, how can we help them have these positive body images?
00:06:28
rosalyn rourke
Mm hmm.
00:06:28
smandere1
Even though I know as a mom, I very much make it a point never to say anything bad about myself. I'm doing a cleanse right now and I'm saying it's for my gut health. It's not for me to lose weight, even though I know kind of, I don't like the way some things look. So um that's, you know, but I'm never saying that in front of my kids, but I still will hear them make comments. And it's like, well, I've never said that about myself in front of you. Where are you getting this from?
00:06:53
smandere1
Why do you think it's okay? And I'm like, no, you're beautiful. And they're like, you have to say that you're my mom.
00:07:00
rosalyn rourke
So here's what I have to say.
Children's Self-Perception and Parental Influence
00:07:03
rosalyn rourke
It's not about what you say.
00:07:05
smandere1
Yeah.
00:07:05
rosalyn rourke
It's about what you think and what you feel about yourself. And my book, which is, this I don't see this as a plug for my book, but it just so happens that the fable starts this way. So there's a little girl and she thinks, why does mommy scrunch her eyebrows when she looks at herself in the mirror?
00:07:36
rosalyn rourke
And that's what makes this wisdom character come to visit her. So the fable is all about new ideas that thoughts and feelings are not truth.
00:07:53
rosalyn rourke
Otherwise, they would be called facts.
00:07:54
smandere1
Hmm.
00:07:57
rosalyn rourke
Let's just take that in a minute. for For all of us to take that in, I mean, that was a huge pivot in my life because I was an obese child.
00:08:00
smandere1
Yeah.
00:08:10
rosalyn rourke
My daughter Melissa had weight issues. We had three generations of mothers that picked out one daughter to worry about.
00:08:22
rosalyn rourke
And I did that with Melissa, and I couldn't stop. It didn't, no matter how much education I had. I knew it was wrong, so I knew not to say anything. I never said anything. Never, never. Not about food, not about weight, but but I was scared for her, just like my mother was scared for me.
00:08:46
rosalyn rourke
And we're not bad people when we when we're judgmental or we're scared. First of all, in my case, and I don't know about your mom if she worried about her weight and her looks, but it's contagious. Thoughts and feelings are contagious. And so the good news is that if we Pay attention to our thoughts and feelings, which again are not truth, or they would be called facts. And it's not a fact even if if you weigh 50 pounds more than what the doctors scale says typical should be. It's not a fact that you're unworthy. It's just a fact that you weigh what you weigh. The conclusion
00:09:42
rosalyn rourke
that we make are what's not true. So yes, you could say, my pants are tight and that's why I'm going on the cleanse. But what else did you say about, like, or feel, even if you didn't put it in words, we don't need to have words. You could look in the mirror and go, you know, and that says it all, but you don't need that. So the good news is that if we focus on ourselves and when we know that it's contagious, we might do for our daughters what we haven't been willing to do for ourselves. So eventually, well, two things happen.
00:10:36
rosalyn rourke
It got better, that this this judgment about food. I was skinny.
00:10:44
rosalyn rourke
probably close to anorexia with my my restriction of food and my rules of good food, bad food. And I put it all under health and also so we have to be to be really honest like you were. You said I'm doing a cleanse for my gut, but you
Overcoming Binge Eating and Food Relationship
00:11:01
rosalyn rourke
also knew you were doing it to get into whatever it was that was tight. So you're at least being honest, yes.
00:11:11
rosalyn rourke
i went I had to do this because I was still binging, even though I was close to anorexia, because I was so restrictive it was actually forcing me to go on these binges. you know It was really kind of like a bulimic. you know it's It's the restricting that causes the binging. um But I went on a very extreme non-diet, now they call it intuitive eating and so on, but it was called non-dieting in those years. And I brought in extreme amounts of every food, extreme amounts of whatever I thought I couldn't handle. I couldn't trust myself with certain things. And then, so here's how it went. And I'm not recommending this to your listeners, but I'll tell you what what but helped from that.
00:12:06
rosalyn rourke
I am recommending it if you can't trust yourself with food and if you'll go all the way. If you're just going to bring it in so that you'll lose weight, eventually, don't bother. But if you're willing to go all the way to stop binge eating and have a different relationship with trusting food, and this I know you're a health coach, so This may not be popular, um but before you can really take recommendations in a healthy suggestion, the morality of of chocolate is bad and broccoli is good has to shift.
00:12:54
smandere1
Yeah.
00:12:54
rosalyn rourke
Otherwise, it's just more dieting, more restriction. You can't get there. so What we would do in this program is you'd say, how many chocolate bars in a very inviting way, how much peanut butter and chocolate bars could you eat? And maybe the person like me says, maybe four. So then you say to them, bring in eight. And when it gets down to four, not if, but when it gets down to four, will you replace them?
00:13:27
rosalyn rourke
So you have to do it not because you're going to lose weight because that it's touted as, you know, you have people like me teaching it and then you think, well, I'll lose weight or I'll look like her. No, you have to want it sir so much. And I wanted it for my daughter. So this is what gets gets you back to, I was willing to do this because I could see she was gaining weight and my successful restriction was not helping her. And I would go into a room and see her with a bowl of granola filled to the brim like four cups of granola as a snack. And I would think you shouldn't be eating that. And she would say to me because she was very sensitive, you think I shouldn't be eating that.
00:14:20
rosalyn rourke
I mean, the exact words I was thinking that if we're close to beloveds, they know what we're thinking. So I had to do something extreme like that. And it blew Melissa's mind. It really, when she saw me with all of this food, and I explained what I was doing, and it was all about me, I think it opened the door in a big time way. I did get over binge eating.
00:14:49
rosalyn rourke
because all foods were acceptable. And then I did gain some weight, but I lost it once once I got over. And still to this day, if I find myself judgmental or having gained weight from having company and eating differently,
00:15:07
rosalyn rourke
I'll have that old thought of restricting something and then I'll say, no, no, bring in more, at least bring in more protein, bring in more vegetables, but don't cut out.
00:15:19
rosalyn rourke
you know That's, I mean, that's probably an ABC of health coaches today, but it was novel then.
00:15:26
smandere1
Yeah.
00:15:26
rosalyn rourke
So we had a big intervention there, but can I finish? I know I'm talking a lot, but can I finish by saying, What helped me because this could be, your listeners could go straight to this.
00:15:46
rosalyn rourke
I had a friend who that I was traveling with and she introduced us to Lorna Byrne, the the greatest living Irish mystic. Some of your listeners might know her book, Angels in My Hair. It's a lovely, really riveting book.
00:16:05
rosalyn rourke
And in my interview with her, she immediately picked up on Melissa. She said not a word about my other daughter or even me, except to say, if you do not stop worrying about her, you will become decrepit. But basically, I heard her say, stop.
00:16:31
rosalyn rourke
Just stop. Nobody. I'd been to fancy therapists. I'd been and to spiritual people. I'd been all over the map. I had my higher education. Nobody had said, just stop. Just stop. Stop the judgmental thinking about them, and even in the form of worrying. Worrying is our cover that we get to allow ourselves to then imagine all the things we don't want.
00:17:02
rosalyn rourke
Stop it, because we're hurting everyone, we're hurting us, we're hurting them. We feel guilty, we don't feel good about it, even if we couch it as worry. We know it's not right.
00:17:14
rosalyn rourke
So what to do instead might be your question. Is that your question? If you're gonna stop.
00:17:19
smandere1
yeah you How do you stop worrying as a mom?
00:17:23
rosalyn rourke
well First of all, you you so you really own that it's hurting them.
00:17:24
smandere1
if
00:17:29
smandere1
Yeah.
00:17:29
rosalyn rourke
because you're you're not trusting them. They pick it up. They hear your thoughts. it's it's Other moms will tell you it goes with the territory. It does not. It doesn't have to. Yes, it's common. Yes, we indulge each other by listening to that and by making worrying acceptable.
The Harm of Worrying About Children
00:17:53
rosalyn rourke
But and I'm here to say it's hurtful because let's just let's just Try it on. When we feel somebody's worried about us, do we feel capable? Do we feel good about ourselves?
00:18:09
rosalyn rourke
Now you want to say, that's my thoughts. They are not hearing them. No, they hear them. We all know they hear them. That's why we get sticky responses if we say, ah don't eat that potato. you know It's it's ah too late at night. And then they say something outrageous like,
00:18:30
rosalyn rourke
you're trying to control me or something, right? and And you are, you know, but you're trying to say, well, you know, it's not a good thing to eat if you've had some, you know, whatever, right? So, but we know in our hearts what we're really trying to do. We're trying to prevent the things we fear.
00:18:50
smandere1
Yeah.
00:18:51
rosalyn rourke
So there are these bigger feelings. Do you see how these, when we say we're just worrying, we're minimizing what we're doing. We're making it smaller. Well, we're just worrying. We're not saying we're judging our daughters.
00:19:07
rosalyn rourke
We're not saying that. We're saying we're worrying. We're trying to guide them. We're trying to point the way. We're trying to open doors. We're trying to have them have successful experience, whatever we're saying, right? But it if if we use these seven feelings, they're bigger than what we say. But if we interview ourselves, it's grounding.
00:19:37
rosalyn rourke
It's the truth, the truth is grounding and what it leads to is presence. Now, how do how do feelings lead to presence? let's Let's just stop here. Wouldn't you like if if I was just really present with you and said, Charlotte, tell me what's going on for you today. How was your day?
00:20:03
rosalyn rourke
And I'm looking in your eyes with no story from my day. I'm not busy. I'm not thinking about where I'm going next. And I'm just saying, Charlotte, I just see see this about you and that about you. I mean, is that not the best feeling in the world?
00:20:20
smandere1
yeah
00:20:22
rosalyn rourke
It's even better than love, it's better than affirmations because love, no matter what we say, it's conditional.
00:20:22
smandere1
yeah
00:20:29
rosalyn rourke
Unless you're a newborn, you know, you you need to go to school, you need to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it's conditional. But presence is letting go all your stories, letting go your worry, letting go your day, letting go your past.
00:20:42
smandere1
Yeah.
00:20:46
rosalyn rourke
You're just in the now.
00:20:47
smandere1
Yeah.
00:20:48
rosalyn rourke
And that is so fulfilling, so nourishing. it's It's better than affirmations. You said it in the beginning. They'll say, oh, you're just my mama.
00:20:58
rosalyn rourke
You're just saying it. You're right?
00:21:00
smandere1
Yeah, say that.
00:21:01
rosalyn rourke
You will.
00:21:02
smandere1
Yeah.
00:21:02
rosalyn rourke
They'll feel it. So these seven feelings are bigger than what we would admit. But if we ask ourselves in the kindly voice what we're doing is bringing in brain science.
00:21:20
rosalyn rourke
We're getting a pattern interrupt. You said, how do we stop worrying? When we're worrying, we need a pattern interrupt.
00:21:25
smandere1
Yeah.
00:21:29
rosalyn rourke
And by the way, worry is at one of these seven feelings. So I would say the first one i would is important because it's usually the last one, but I'm going to say it first because it's numbness. Some of our listeners will won't know what they're feeling. I'm just worried. I don't know. I just don't know. So they come in pairs and we're going to end with numbness because that's what I want you to claim if you don't know what you're feeling.
00:22:02
rosalyn rourke
because at least it's a something that you can acknowledge. So the seven feelings are joy, pain. So you would say, you're talking to yourself, Sharla, is there any joy in this worry? Now right now, is there any pain? Why are joy and pain together? All these pairs are very brilliant and meaningful.
00:22:30
rosalyn rourke
and they've been paired together with intention. Sometimes, even like in grief, if some of your moms are grieving a lost child, a lost friend,
00:22:42
rosalyn rourke
sometimes it feels good to hurt because that's what we've been taught is love for the deceased so that's just a little separate thing but it's not weird to ask yourself is there any joy and all of these feelings are a little bigger than you might admit to but there's a reason So is there any joy, Charlotte? You're talking to yourself. You might even use your name. Is there any pain, Charlotte? Is there any fear, Charlotte? Is there any anger, joy, pain, anger, fear? I used to, and this came from Pia Melody in the 80s, and I've changed guilt to perceived mistakes.
00:23:34
rosalyn rourke
Because we don't even know if you did anything, you just think you did.
00:23:34
smandere1
Mm.
00:23:38
rosalyn rourke
Perceived mistakes. And I've changed shame to imagined unworthiness. Because all we can say is that we feel like we're not good enough, but we don't know.
00:23:53
rosalyn rourke
That's a whole story in itself. then there's numbness as the last pair that goes with presence. So Charlotte, can you see that if you were worrying, and you asked yourself all of these questions, might you not have a pattern interrupt from worrying, right?
00:24:17
smandere1
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:24:19
rosalyn rourke
And then if you go ahead,
00:24:19
smandere1
I love it. Oh, no. Finish, please.
00:24:24
rosalyn rourke
And yet then if you could just at the end repeat to yourself, o okay, and these words are important. Instead of I am angry, I i am feeling pain. If you say pain happened, fear is happening.
00:24:46
rosalyn rourke
If you use that language, you're not becoming a victim and not taking responsibility. You're actually, but it's the past. It was a few minutes ago. And instead of putting your I am with fear,
00:25:02
rosalyn rourke
And you're now in another ballpark if you're claiming those things.
Concept of Conscious Dissociation
00:25:07
rosalyn rourke
But you're you're taking responsibility by admitting it. But you're already allowing a new moment. This is like brilliant stuff. I didn't create it. I just tweaked it. And the last thing I'll say and and turn it over to you is I'm calling this conscious dissociation.
00:25:30
rosalyn rourke
Dissociation usually has a bad association, but we're being conscious and the dissociation is what allows presence. We're letting go that <unk>re we're distancing ourselves from the worry, from the fear, from the anger, from right? And so that's why I like tweaking it and turning it around because we can get excited about what we can receive. So by taking this kind of responsibility, we're taking our side of a tug of war and letting him go.
00:26:12
smandere1
Yeah. this ah You're blowing my mind. It's brilliant. i I love the duality of putting the feelings together, right? Joy and pain. Fear and anger. Those two like, yeah, fear and anger for me, particularly like go very, like I don't want my kids to see me cry a lot. So I mean, they do, but not like all the time. So it,
00:26:40
smandere1
sometimes would come out in anger. And I'll tell my husband like, I'm not mad. It's just anxiety. I'm feeling like this anxiety or this fear around something. And so it's coming out.
00:26:50
smandere1
It's like, let's make this happen. Like I'm too much trying to do something about it. And it comes out very strong, you know, and everybody thinks I'm
00:26:59
rosalyn rourke
and I love that you're using that word anxiety because there are tons of books coming out all the time on anxiety, but I like these words better because what does anxiety mean? like It's a free-floating feeling in my body and ah you know nervous. like It's not specific enough and raw enough to do anything with it.
00:27:23
rosalyn rourke
If you're feeling anxious versus you're angry or anger has happened, fear has happened. and And even if we're not doing that interviewing, if we use that language, if your listeners take one thing away and they change their language to fear just happened, anger just happened, you're giving your brain a chance for a new moment.
00:27:39
smandere1
Yeah.
00:27:50
smandere1
Yeah, I'm going to use that. That's I love that that it's that's happened, but it's not like.
00:27:57
rosalyn rourke
It's not happening. You're not just kind of dive and stay.
00:28:01
smandere1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happened and now you can move, move through it, move on and move through it.
00:28:07
rosalyn rourke
But might we're not going to emphasize the move through it. It is true that energy is in motion. Energy is not tangible. And in 90 seconds, if you don't add to it, what does it add to it? It's like, yeah, she did this. And then I'm angry because of that. And then I did this. And then I did that. And um you know we can always, when we're in a story, add to it.
00:28:34
rosalyn rourke
but if you any of us don't add to it. Science tells us that in 90 seconds, if we did nothing else, not even use this interview, did nothing but not add to our thought or feeling in 90 seconds, we could have a new moment, a new thought, 90 seconds, not that long.
00:28:59
smandere1
Mm hmm.
00:28:59
rosalyn rourke
It's not as fast as you think, but it's not that long.
00:29:02
rosalyn rourke
Just stop like that woman said, and just bringing it back to Ireland. When she said it, you know, there's this powerful person yeah on another continent that I admire so much.
00:29:16
rosalyn rourke
And the belief is she has connections to the on high. I took her stop as yelling, even though she was just soft spoken.
00:29:27
smandere1
Mm hmm.
00:29:27
rosalyn rourke
And my husband and I, from that moment on, never worried about her again. If it would start and it would, we just stopped. We just stopped.
00:29:39
rosalyn rourke
So if you're committed to wanting something else for these beloved children that we are actually hurting with our own feelings about our own life.
00:29:54
rosalyn rourke
And they get it secondarily. We can do a lot for them that we wouldn't have done for ourselves. We can get lazy about ourselves and self-talk, you know, thinking we can get away with it.
00:30:05
smandere1
it.
00:30:07
rosalyn rourke
It doesn't cost anything. Yeah, it does. It's costing them. So I just feel like that's such good news and nobody said anything
00:30:13
smandere1
Yeah.
00:30:18
rosalyn rourke
like that to me in my therapy, you know, we went all the Nazis and the, you know, and the food and whatever. But, you know, I would love for your readers and listeners to take this, you know, and run with it.
00:30:36
smandere1
Yeah. No, it's, and really what you're speaking to is moms taking care of themselves and putting themselves first, even for a little bit in order to be a better mom, to be a better wife, to better take care of the others, right? It's that fill your bucket to, to write put your oxygen mask on first, all those analogies. But I have a podcast episode that just released not long ago about self care for moms and why it's so hard for moms to just self care.
00:31:06
smandere1
you know, even little bits to ask for any time to themselves to take care of themselves. But you have to do the work on yourself in order for that. god That's how we break those ancestral patterns.
00:31:18
smandere1
That's we break the but the familial patterns.
00:31:18
rosalyn rourke
honey
00:31:21
smandere1
You're speaking so much to, to all of that of like, if you want to not do the same thing to your daughter that your mother did to you, then you have to do the work to heal that.
00:31:32
smandere1
So you don't want to her and that's so
00:31:34
rosalyn rourke
And it's simpler than you think. If you want to go into therapy, it's great for some things. And and if you want to do any kind of um pathway. Do it. But it doesn't have to be complicated and it doesn't have to take a long time to make an intervention in your own brain so that today things are different with our daughters. It's not that hard. Everybody who knows the definition of those words can start today.
00:32:08
rosalyn rourke
I mean, you don't need to have degrees and and experience. It didn't help me. It was great for my practice. I had a very exciting career. I loved it, but it didn't help me with this as much as this would help me.
00:32:24
smandere1
Yeah, no, I love it. I love, like I said, I love the duality of putting those skin links together. There's a song, like i hit a hit, like R and&B song from the 90s. I think it's Montel Jordan, like it's called Joy and Pain, right?
00:32:38
rosalyn rourke
I love it.
00:32:38
smandere1
Joy and pain, like sunshine and rain.
00:32:40
rosalyn rourke
I love it.
00:32:41
smandere1
But he had a whole song about it and how they, yeah like,
00:32:44
rosalyn rourke
You have it together. Think of when a migraine starts going away. How joyful do you feel? Pain can morph right into joy. just you know, even connecting, I remember, you know, I i didn't mention this, but my daughter unexpectedly died at age 39. And I would have to tell people at the service I'm probably going to cry, but it's not out of sadness. It's when you cry about your love for Melissa. That brings me so much joy that I just cry out of the connection and the joy that she was this loved in the world.
00:33:31
rosalyn rourke
And that truly is what would make me cry, was connection with these people myself and their great love for her. So, but I don't think too many people believe me, but that is the truth.
Living in Honor of Melissa and Embracing Life
00:33:45
rosalyn rourke
By that time time, I'd had so, you know, that would be another conversation. But I had an intervention that showed me that even in g grief,
00:34:00
rosalyn rourke
even when terrible things happen to you, where you will have listeners who are going through awful things. That is not a reason not to live bigger.
00:34:15
smandere1
Yeah.
00:34:15
rosalyn rourke
It's not. You you can live bigger in honor of what happened.
00:34:17
smandere1
Yeah.
00:34:21
rosalyn rourke
I live bigger in honor of Melissa. i I do, it inspires me every single day to do what she would have me do.
00:34:33
smandere1
Yeah.
00:34:34
rosalyn rourke
And you know, she said something that I would start, I would love to say to your listeners. She did not know she was dying.
00:34:44
rosalyn rourke
We did not know she was dying. But she said to me on her last day alive,
00:34:53
rosalyn rourke
shine with your full brilliance, no matter what.
00:35:01
smandere1
Hmm.
00:35:02
rosalyn rourke
And I first took that as, oh, she thought I was smart. Yay. She thought I was smart. Fantastic. She didn't mean that.
00:35:13
rosalyn rourke
Maybe she did. Maybe she didn't. What she meant was don't hold your light down. Don't minimize yourself because you think you might not be all that. You might not be good enough. yeah Embody your whole body. Embody your life because that's It's the greatest thing that we have right now that we're still alive. And that's what she meant. It took me a couple of years. And she meant that for every everyone. Shine with your full brilliance, no matter what's going on.
Presence Over Worthiness for Fulfillment
00:35:52
rosalyn rourke
It's not a reason not to shine your light.
00:35:56
smandere1
Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And I cannot imagine, I know you've spoken, we've spoken a few times and we've been in calls and stuff together. where We've spoken about your daughter and, and finding the not joy in the grief, right? But just that that you're okay. And I, you know, I, I cannot imagine losing a child and Like, I don't i don't know i don't know what i don't know how what I would do. Even at 39, they're still your kid. They're still your baby. They're always gonna be, right?
00:36:27
rosalyn rourke
Yeah, well, you know, I'll give you the essence of my TED Talk in one sentence, and the essence is stages of grief, you'll stay stuck. But if you look at it, just like we looked at these seven feelings that lead to presence, a feeling, you could feel anything, but it's gone. It's not who you are.
00:36:49
rosalyn rourke
And it's just a feeling meant to come through you. The five stages of grief, if we say that to all feelings of grief, don't call them stages.
00:37:01
rosalyn rourke
You'll you'll you'll have them again. You'll be stuck. So that's my TED Talk.
00:37:04
smandere1
Yeah. I love that. Stages of grief. Don't, what was it? Stages of grief.
00:37:12
rosalyn rourke
Instead of stages of grief, feeling states come and go.
00:37:19
smandere1
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:20
rosalyn rourke
They're just feelings, just labels of feeling, joy, pain, anger, fear, guilt, shame, lust.
00:37:20
smandere1
Yeah. linear
00:37:26
rosalyn rourke
ah It used to be lust, I call it now, numbness, and and presence I've turned from the original into a likeness, presence.
00:37:37
smandere1
yeah
00:37:37
rosalyn rourke
So yeah.
00:37:38
smandere1
Yeah, we could do a whole other episode on that. I mean, grief is not linear.
00:37:40
rosalyn rourke
No.
00:37:42
smandere1
I know I, you know, I lost both my parents two years apart and, um, didn't get a good vibe. You know, it was very hard. So, um, it is not linear.
00:37:54
rosalyn rourke
um
00:37:54
smandere1
And sometimes you get that boom, boom, back to back. It's very, it's very tough. Um, and having that.
00:37:59
rosalyn rourke
Yes.
00:38:02
smandere1
figure out how to help my kids through that when I don't know what I'm doing either.
00:38:04
rosalyn rourke
Yes.
00:38:04
smandere1
So that's a whole other it's a whole other episode.
00:38:07
rosalyn rourke
It's another episode.
00:38:07
smandere1
We'll save that for now.
00:38:08
rosalyn rourke
I need to come back and talk that talk to you about that. Yeah.
00:38:12
smandere1
Yes, this was so great. that i love I love everything you're speaking to Rosalind of of you know as moms, we have to heal ourselves. We have to take care of ourselves first. So we can show them different, not just teach them different, but show them different.
00:38:32
rosalyn rourke
Right.
00:38:32
smandere1
And even, you know, like me, you make a very conscious effort not to say things in the mirror to yourself. You know, they might hear thoughts or, you know, I don't look, I don't weigh myself in front of my kids.
00:38:41
rosalyn rourke
well
00:38:44
smandere1
I don't look at myself in the mirror in front of my kid. Like I don't, you know, like, I mean, I'll look, I'll put makeup on him.
00:38:48
rosalyn rourke
But it's not enough. You have to not feel that way about yourself. And there is, I promise you, there is presence will take you
00:38:53
smandere1
Yeah.
00:39:02
rosalyn rourke
beyond worthiness. So when you mentioned the word ah polarity or duality, we think of healing as feeling worthy. But when you drop the subject, when you are um falling asleep at night and you're in that nothingness before you fall asleep, you're not asleep, you're not awake, you've let go the day What if what we are is the energy of life and not these personalities?
00:39:30
smandere1
Mm hmm.
00:39:36
rosalyn rourke
There is a way and and i'm I'm concerned about using the word healing because I know it's it's typical and people love it, but it sounds so big.
00:39:48
rosalyn rourke
If I'm judging my daughter and I'm stuck and I'm worrying, I got to heal myself. I don't know how it's too big. I don't know someday, but all I need to do is allow all feelings without judgment. Just allow them, recognize them. If you don't know your feelings, use these ones we gave you to today. I promise you it will make all a difference. And look for where presence brings you. Do you notice that presence is different than worthiness?
00:40:26
rosalyn rourke
Because if you go for worthiness, you're going to have unworthy. If you go for smart, you're going to have dumb, whatever those. So you want to get outside of the the dualities. And life is really the energy of life. We can't say what it is. And that's what we are. But presence is the beginning to get into that.
00:40:51
rosalyn rourke
and your ecstatic dancing or whatever the name, the correct name is of what you're going to do next is going to give people that entrance into something beyond the duality, that presence that's neither this nor that. When you're laughing at a comedian, you're no weight, you're no size, you're no better or worse, you're just in presence, you're just enjoying whatever life.
00:41:24
rosalyn rourke
yeah It's nothing and it's everything, right?
00:41:29
smandere1
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:30
rosalyn rourke
So that's a lot. I said a lot today, but I just trying to offer you everything a lifetime.
00:41:37
smandere1
I appreciate it so much. You are so much joy and light. I love getting to know you um and and and hearing everything you have to say is amazing.
00:41:47
smandere1
And you just dropped like the mic today and you you brought it. So thank you, Rosalind. I appreciate everything you say.
00:41:55
rosalyn rourke
It was so great to be with you. Thank you, Charlotte.
00:41:57
smandere1
yeah
00:41:57
rosalyn rourke
Thank you listeners.
00:42:00
smandere1
thank you
00:42:01
rosalyn rourke
Bye. Bye for now.