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166. - The Flash (2023)
99 Plays10 months ago
"You should seek the services of a mental health professional. The Justice League is… not very good at that part yet. Trust me.”
It's time to bring 2023 in for a landing, so - as we've done every year so far - we're talking about a failed franchise starter from this past year… and this year, that talk includes a deep dive into this film's troubled and storied production history, a reckoning of star Ezra Miller's legal woes, and a treatise or two on the state of modern cinema! Don't miss out on this super-sized year-end extravaganza!
Whatever you do, don't let go of these social media platforms (so you can follow us, of course):
- @Disenfranchpod on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Letterboxd, and YouTube
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- Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify!
- Find Stephen at @ChewyWalrus on Bluesky, Instagram, and Letterboxd
- Find Brett at @sus_warlock on Instagram and Letterboxd or @suswarlock on Bluesky
- Find Tucker at @icenine09 on YouTube and Instagram and @tuck_mugs on Instagram
- Join our Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including our weekly What Are We Watching? show: https://patreon.com/Disenfranchpod
Watch our big screen debut in Circle City Supernatural from our buddy J.P. Leck! You can either buy it on BluRay through his website or buy/rent it through Amazon Prime!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
you
00:00:22
Speaker
Zoom, zoom, zoom! Happy New Year and welcome to the disenfranchised podcast. We're that podcast all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy, and joining me, as always, the man who knows just how long
Holiday Recap and Gift Exchanges
00:00:41
Speaker
a baby needs to be in the microwave. It's my co-host, Brett Wright. Hey, Brett. Hello, Stephen. How are we doing tonight, buddy?
00:00:49
Speaker
Doing pretty good, man. Christmas was great. Yeah. All the days are great. Did you get some good presents? Santa bring you anything cool? Yeah, man. I got some cool stuff. I mean, I got new tires for my car, so. Fuck yeah. I'll drink to that. Much needed. And also, I got this really cool, ecto cooler beer that some really good friend got me, so that's what you do. Oh, that sounds like a really good friend.
00:01:17
Speaker
The best. Sounds like an asshole. A little bit. I mean, is that too? A little bit of that. A little bit. I saw it with an asshole. I think this podcast episode will bear that out for sure. Also joining us tonight, as always, our other co-host, the man who I think just got back from cousin dinner. It's Tucker. Hey, Tucker. Cousin's dinner. Hey, Steven, how's it going? It's going, man. It's going. How was your holiday?
00:01:44
Speaker
I also had a fruitful holiday. Not only did I get to hang out with the families and I'm hanging out with various friends while I'm here in town, but my sister got me the Jim Varney biography book. You sent us that, yeah. Dude, I can't wait to read that, dude.
00:02:02
Speaker
When you finish it, we're going to have to cover that first Jim Varney movie, the first one where he plays Ernest,
Future Podcast Plans
00:02:09
Speaker
like the Dr. Otto. Ernest goes to camp? No, before that. Oh, OK. The Dr. Otto, yeah. We have to tie that into the obscure, like, art house film that they made about one of the characters from the Ernest TV show that's not for kids. We'll put that like it. We'll do like a half a theme month.
00:02:26
Speaker
or like a theme week where we'll do Dr. Otto and then we'll do the fucking Existo. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. When we don't do them as a mini series or when we don't do them as a theme month, we do them as mini series. Like next month we'll have it. It'll technically be a theme month, but since we're taking a bi-week, it's more of a mini series, but yeah.
00:02:48
Speaker
Well, here's what I'm thinking. We'll do a slight band meeting in the middle of recording is I love that. I love that. So it'll it'll be on a fifth of it when I have a fifth Thursday, you know, before we'll do existo. OK. And then, yeah, no, we'll do Dr. Otto. And then anyway, I also the most the best the best gift I got.
00:03:12
Speaker
was I got a little walking around money from my parents. Hmm. And like your boy barely made it here this year, like barely financially, like six dollars in my bank account when I hit Indiana. I really made it here. I can appreciate that for sure. So and so my parents gave me a little walking around money and I've been walking around a bit. OK, nice. That sounds fun, man.
Year-End Reflections
00:03:37
Speaker
I hope you guys are able to hit up Taco, the new downtown indie Taco Bell Cantina this weekend.
00:03:42
Speaker
Oh, we gonna. We go out and send me some pics so I can put them up on the Insta. So I was going to say, yeah, we'll put them up on the social medias. Yeah, it'll be a whole thing. It will be a whole ass thing. But it is the end of twenty twenty three. This is our very last episode of twenty twenty three. This episode drops on the 28th. So we're recording on the twenty six. That's extra fun.
00:04:10
Speaker
gives Tucker like no time at it. Straight up deadlines. But this episode drops in just a couple of days as we're recording it. But as we have done since the very beginning, we are covering a failed franchise starter from the year in which we are currently existing. We've done some pretty wild ones over the year. I think last year we did Morbius because what the fuck else were we going to do? But this year, you know, we've been we've been that was last year, wasn't it?
00:04:38
Speaker
That was the last one I edited before I was full time host. Correct. Yeah. It's it was it was more been time all up in this bitch. I have no memory of that. I mean, I felt I felt lucky that I got in right after the line because I have no desire to see Morbius and I still haven't. So fuck yeah, dude.
00:05:06
Speaker
It sucks. It's bad. I believe it.
Discussing 'The Flash' Movie
00:05:10
Speaker
Still, you know, worse, I think, than the movie we're covering today, for sure. Absolutely. And this one we've teased out for a while because Tucker saw this one and kind of insisted that we when I when I hinted that this was going to be one that we could potentially cover as our end of year, he's like, oh, no, that's the one we are going to cover. We have to. And Tucker is the squeakiest of wheels. So he tends to get his way. Tucker, what fucking movie from 2023 are we covering today?
00:05:34
Speaker
We are covering The Straight Up Flash. We are covering The Flash. 2023 is The Flash, directed by Andy Machete with a screenplay by Christina Hodson, a story by John Francis Daley, Jonathan Goldstein and Joby Harold. I think it's pronounced Machete. Machete, Machete, Machete, Machete, Machete.
00:06:05
Speaker
starring Ezra Miller, Sasha Calle, Michael Shannon, Ron Livingston, Maribel Vardu, Kiersey Clemens, Ancha Trau, Michael Keaton, God, and then just
00:06:22
Speaker
cameos just cameos cameos cameos Ben Affleck George Clooney Jeremy Irons Tamara Morrison Gal Gadot Jason Momoa
00:06:34
Speaker
Uh, who else? Fucking Nikolai Koster Waldo has a cameo in this pitch? Aquaman's dad? Aquaman's dad? Is there Nicole Kidman? Nicole Kidman is his wife, right? That's what I heard. That's who that is on the couch. In Aquaman, she is, but not in this movie. No, that's not her, like, in a fat suit? No. They stopped doing that, though, right? They stopped doing fat suits, right? God, I hope so. And then computer-generated images of Henry Cavill, Jai Courtney, Nicholas Cage.
00:07:03
Speaker
Fuck, who else? Helen Slater, Christopher Reeve, George Reeves, and Adam West, I think. Did I get everybody? I don't know, probably not. I'm sure we'll... Who the fuck cares? Yeah, I don't know. Seriously. But what a cast, what a picture.
00:07:25
Speaker
You guys, I like this movie a lot. I know. And that's that's one of the reasons why I'm really glad we're talking about it, because I know you guys probably didn't like it that much. And like this time, look, you guys, I tried. I tried so hard not to like this time when I watched it. I just want to fit in, you know, but like I tried so hard. Tried so hard not to like it, but damn it, I had such a good time when I watched this movie. This is the fourth time I've seen it since it came out. Good lord, dude.
00:07:55
Speaker
And despite it on repeat viewings, the third act being a little slow, I still have just, I really love this movie. I like it a lot. It's my favorite DCU movie. And I like a lot of the DCU movies, like unabashedly. I've heard a lot of people say it's one of the best and I,
DC vs Marvel: Characters and Culture
00:08:16
Speaker
I watch this movie and I'm just like, I don't see it, but that's too bad.
00:08:21
Speaker
I really don't like this movie, but I agree with that, but I in general don't really like any DC-EU movies at all.
00:08:28
Speaker
Um, I, I would say my favorite is probably the Suicide Squad, not Suicide Squad, but the Suicide Squad. And then number two is Aquaman because that movie is just so fucking weird. And James Wan is doing just going off the rails with that thing. You see, I didn't care for Aquaman at all. I just think he's, it was boring. Dude, there's an octopus playing the drums.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, well, I've seen that before. There's there's an cartoon. There's an entire there's an entire race of crab people, crab people. Cool. Fucking crab people, Tucker. Come on. I blame I blame video games. It sounds like it's the worst. Cool idea that's wasted on that movie is what that sounds like. So they do. Do you know who plays the Kraken in that movie? I know I've mentioned this on this podcast before. Julie Andrews. It's Julie Andrews.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, dude. Plays the Kraken, and that's the reason she's not in Mary Poppins Returns. And you'd think that would seal the deal for me, right? You'd think. You love Mary Poppins. But I'm OK with the Angela Lansbury cameo in Mary Poppins Returns, even though she had nothing to do with Mary Poppins. It's kind of one of those, this is clearly intended for someone else kind of cameos. I feel like Bedknobs and Broomsticks is a Mary Poppins-adjacent film. It would be a great double feature. I'm sure I've double featured it before. I'm sure you have. I've never seen Bedknobs and Broomsticks.
00:09:51
Speaker
Like I get why she's there and that's one of one of the very few things I liked about Mary Poppins Returns. Right. But still, I just Aquaman. Like, look, I like Man of Steel. I like the ultimate cut of Batman V Superman. I like the Snyder cut of Justice League. I like the first Wonder Woman movie. I like the first Shazam movie. I liked the second Suicide Squad movie. Outside of that, I don't give a fuck.
00:10:19
Speaker
I don't like any of those other movies. I really wish that I had the desire to watch Black Adam, though, because I really am interested in the Justice Society part of that film. Oh, we're going to watch it at some point. It's on the list. I just don't think I give enough of a fuck about to like sit through it just for the Justice Society shit.
00:10:37
Speaker
No, we're gonna watch it. It's on the list, man. I mean, Pierce Brosnan is Dr. Fate. Come on, you guys. It was a very close number two last year. But for Morbius, it would have been Black Adam.
00:10:51
Speaker
Last year. Morbius was the right choice, I feel like. I concur. Absolutely. That was one of those Brett's like, I was thinking Black Adam and Brett's like Morbius. I was like, shit, you're right. For the memes. Fair. For the memes. I was like, shit, you're right. No, you're absolutely right. That is the right decision. We made it. We did it. We're good. That was the right call. But this year, we're talking about the flag.
00:11:18
Speaker
What is everyone's history with the character of the flash? Now, Tucker, you said you'd seen this movie like four times. You kind of gave us your history of the DCEU as well. Brad, kind of what's your history with the character of the flash, this movie and the DCEU in general? I do be still having more to say, so like pop me in at the end so I can like finish my part.
00:11:42
Speaker
Go back, go. So as I've stated many times, I was way more of a Marvel person growing up. Outside of Batman, I could not give even one shit about anything on the DC side. Like half a shit, even. Not even that. So I found most of it boring. And like, oh, a dude can run really fast. Cool. Good for him.
00:12:11
Speaker
How is that it did it fell into the realm of Superman for me like that's cool. How do you fight that? Yeah, so I I didn't I didn't really care. I thought he looked cool, I guess But that's about it. So therefore when this movie came out as I generally don't like I Feel the same about the DC movies. I Thought hey this cool Michael Keaton's Batman is in this I'm gonna see it for that
00:12:41
Speaker
And that was neat. But that's it.
00:12:47
Speaker
That's my history with the flash in this film. Right on. I was I was seeing the weird thing is I was a DC boy growing up. But DC was my shit. I love the Justice League as a kid. I love plastic man is is currently my favorite superhero of all time. Love plastic man. It was one of those like I saw Ralph Dibney, the elongated man and like a Justice League international comic when I was a kid. And I was like, this guy's really cool. My buddy's like, ah, but have you seen plastic man? I was like, never mind. This guy's way funnier.
00:13:15
Speaker
than Ralph Dibney, so I'm all in on Plastic Man. But no, I was always a DC guy, and I agree with you on Flash. His power set just kind of put him in an echelon where he seemed uninteresting to me. Superman at least had kind of the pure hero angle.
00:13:33
Speaker
to where he is the beacon. He is the pillar. He is the platonic ideal of what a superhero is. And so I could get behind that. But the Flash is just, he just seemed grossly overpowered. And it kind of bored me, if I'm being real honest. So I was never particularly interested in the Flash, although I will say that I think the Flash has one of the best rogues galleries in comics. I would say it rivals Spider-Man and Batman.
00:14:01
Speaker
just in terms of like really great villains that he faces off with on a regular basis. Mirror Master, Heatwave, Captain Cold,
00:14:14
Speaker
the Pied Piper, the Trickster, like he's just got a really deep bench of rogues that is, and they all team up often, like frequently, which is really fun. I would say the fact that I only knew one of those names perfumes the statement that they're right up there with Batman and Spider-Man. Here's the thing though, I think if Flash had been adapted sooner,
00:14:40
Speaker
to film, we'll get into the long gestating history of flash movies here momentarily, because I went so deep on the research, you guys. I went so deep today. I was supposed to clean up my apartment, and I just did flash research all day. So yeah. Do it for the pod. Thank you for your sacrifice. I'm throwing myself in the sword for you, gentlemen.
00:15:00
Speaker
Thank you for your service, Stephen. But I think if he'd been adapted sooner, I think, but I mean, if you're if you're like into the comics, then you know, it's kind of one of those if you know, you know, kind of things like if you know, DC Comics, the way I do, like those guys, those guys show up and show out. So no, I'm definitely into the Flash's rogues. I think they're
00:15:25
Speaker
They're really great. And the fact that we see none of them in this movie is kind of a fucking bummer. One of my gripes about this movie, to be honest with you, you've got this great bench of rogues and you use general fucking Zod. No thanks.
00:15:42
Speaker
Well, you don't know who killed his mom, though. And traditionally, that's, you know, a part of reverse and you don't you don't see that. And you kind of get they hinted at it at the end, sort of ish. They hint at the reverse. They hinted at the reverse flash angle like the director.
00:16:03
Speaker
was posting pictures on his Instagram about reverse flash like, hey, this guy might show up, but then he never does. Dude, dude. But look at this. Something I've noticed over my repeat viewings of this film is you're a man. Is that young Barry is straight up always fucking wearing yellow, dude. Hmm.
00:16:24
Speaker
always from the first time you fucking see him boys wearing yellow dude that makes sense so like even though he's not reverse flash like he's kind of a reverse flash adjacent character sort of in tone at some points in the movie you know yeah especially in the end you know yeah definitely there um and i absolutely i mean that that makes sense and i thought that i had read somewhere that not to spoil the ending but i thought that i had read somewhere that it was actually
00:16:52
Speaker
the younger Barry that actually did kill his own mom, but I don't think that's accurate. So maybe to save that universe, like, I mean, he's been there. He's old when they encounter him at the end. Oh, yeah, he is. He's very so who knows what the fuck he's tried. He's lived more than you can imagine, I think is the line. But yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker
But most of my exposure to The Flash was through the Justice League comics. I was a big fan, particularly I've met Grant Morrison's run on Justice League. I loved their run on that book. Absolutely incredible run. And I would recommend anyone who's a fan of comics or just wants to get into the Justice League, pick up that run in particular. It's incredible. It's like 50, 60 issues, but it's well worth your time.
00:17:40
Speaker
But yeah, I didn't really watch the Flash TV show. And after the first couple of DCEU movies, I think after Batman v Superman, I kind of was just out on the DCEU. It was kind of one of those like, I'll see them eventually. But these are not appointment viewing for me at all, which as a DC fan really bummed me out that DC was not able to capture because I think DC has
00:18:04
Speaker
objectively the more iconic superheroes in the long run.
Superhero Film Fatigue and Future
00:18:09
Speaker
I mean, they're- They have the archetypes. I don't know if I'd say they have the better ones, but they have the archetypes that everything was built from. I didn't say better. I said most iconic, but yeah, because they have the archetypes. You know, I mean, Superman, I mean,
00:18:25
Speaker
DC's core five heroes, like their first five big heroes, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Shazam, and Plastic Man were all created by 1941. And I think that it's either that year or maybe a year or two later that we see the first appearance of Captain America, who's the first Marvel hero, like,
00:18:45
Speaker
And it wasn't even Marvel at that point, so. Right. DC was doing it early. So I mean, they have. Oh, they're the OGs for sure. For sure. And so it really irks me as a fan of DC that Warner Brothers has not been able to capitalize on these really incredibly iconic characters. And with the exception of a few movies and older movies at this point,
00:19:11
Speaker
like the original Richard Donner Superman or maybe the first couple of Christopher Nolan Batman films that we've never gotten a really true to the comic portrayal of these characters. It's always kind of been like, I have a take or I want to try something rather than just being something that's really true to the book. Although Schumacher captured the goofiness of that Silver Age stuff really well.
00:19:37
Speaker
Well, and I would argue that the Batman 66 series reflected what Batman was at the time. It did. In the comics pretty well. I'm talking film specific. I guess there was, they did do that. Well, they did make a movie, Steven. This is a future episode of this podcast, yeah. Oh, I can't wait. I fucking love that movie. It's a great movie. I love it so much. It's such a good movie.
00:19:59
Speaker
But yeah, like I but and yeah, you're absolutely right. That is a very good reflection of the 60s era. Batman like that Silver Age goofy Batman, but and and with the exception of Batman and like Superman DC has always been really reticent to make films about their characters. And because of that, most people don't know who a lot of those characters are because they just have
00:20:24
Speaker
haven't shown up in stuff so like you have to really know the comics to know who those a lot of those dc characters are um whereas marvel was
00:20:34
Speaker
even from the, I would say probably the 80s, really good about trying to make as many movies with as many of their characters as possible. A lot of that was to save themselves from bankruptcy, but you know what I mean. Like Marvel was always really, was a lot better about putting them into different mediums. And DC has just always kind of been slow to do that. And it's frustrating as a guy who really liked DC growing up, for sure. Which is why I would refute the iconic statement. I mean,
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, they're Superman, maybe, Batman, maybe, but the rest of them, I don't think so. Especially not nowadays. After the MCU happened, nobody would consider any of the DC heroes iconic except for maybe Batman and Superman. But again, I think there's a difference between like popular and iconic. Yeah, there is. I'm taking that into account and I still don't think they're iconic anymore.
00:21:27
Speaker
If they were, they might have been. They're not anymore. I mean, I would still say super. It doesn't get more iconic than Superman. It just doesn't. Well, I just said Superman and Batman. Sure. The rest of them know the Superman and Batman. Yes. I mean, I'm a Wonder Woman, not Wonder Woman.
00:21:45
Speaker
Part of what I love about Grant Morrison's run on Justice League is he does not see the Justice League as a group of superheroes. He sees superheroes as a modern day mythology. And so for him, the Justice League or the gods on Mount Olympus watching looking down on all of us, he puts the Justice League watchtower on the fucking moon, so that like they literally are on the mountain looking down on the earth. And he
00:22:11
Speaker
gets these different characters specifically for their relationships to the Greek Pantheon. And it's an incredible read with that in mind, I think. They touch on that a lot in Kingdom Come, too. They do. I would recommend Kingdom Come, Brett, to you, and I would recommend Grant Morrison's Justice League to you. No, I've read Kingdom Come. Kingdom Come's great.
00:22:38
Speaker
I mean, and even if it sucked, like that Jim Liard, ooh. I mean, the art is amazing. I cannot deny the art is amazing. I can't deny that. But like, yeah.
00:22:49
Speaker
I just, I'm definitely the person that Marvel was speaking to where they were just like, you know what? These heroes need to be more grounded. We can't relate to these fucking godlike beings. We need to have people that like are human. D.C. is Nintendo and Marvel is Sega and it's 1993. That's it. That's really what it is.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, dude. Yeah, but that analogy doesn't bear out considering what happened with Nintendo and Sega. Well, and that's why I said specifically in 1993. That's why I specified the year. That's the crux of my statement is like, maybe that was true. What Steven is saying, maybe that was true then. It is not anymore. That's gone.
00:23:36
Speaker
But I think if it is no longer true, and I'm not willing to concede that it is, but if that is true, it is because of Warner Brothers failure to capitalize on the iconic status of those characters in a way that reinforces that status.
00:23:53
Speaker
Honestly, that's kind of why I'm excited for the first time for a DC movie now that James Gunn and Peter Safran are in charge, because I think Gunn more than anyone understands what these characters are and what they can be. Like, I'm looking forward to Superman Legacy because it looks like James Gunn is going to be riffing on
00:24:13
Speaker
Grant Morrison's run on Superman, All Star Superman, which is an incredible run that really embodies the character. Like they did a great job of just embodying who Superman has been and what he means to comics in general at large. And it's an incredible book. And if they can do half of what All Star Superman does in that movie, I'm gonna be very happy.
00:24:39
Speaker
but no one will care because superhero fatigue is real now.
00:24:44
Speaker
You just got to look at the Marvels, look at Blue Beetle. Nobody here. Two shits about those movies, man. I really wanted to see the Marvels in theaters, but it was really good. I thought it was great, but nobody cares to see it. And let me tell you, I am one episode behind on what if right now, and I think it's fucking fantastic. I think it's better than the first season so far. I just got first two episodes. And then the third episode was wow. I.
00:25:11
Speaker
Really really having a good time with that I think I think we have a lot of good superhero movies in the pipeline and good superhero like TV shows in the pipeline
00:25:20
Speaker
But people are over it and people are done. It's the oversaturation of the market. Like Marvel tried to do too much too fast and their quality control got away from them. Like before it was a finely tuned machine, you're doing like two movies a year across like five or six years to do a phase. And now you're doing three movies.
00:25:42
Speaker
for TV shows over the course of a year and it's just too much. Like, if Secret Invasion taught us anything, it's that there's really no one overseeing these things the way they should be.
00:25:52
Speaker
Well, they are now. They've learned their lesson. See, there's the thing. Marvel's learned their lesson over all of the past two years. But I think it's too late. No, it's too late. Like, no, I think that they are, from what I've heard, like, the way that they're course correcting. They're only releasing one movie next year, for fuck's sake. Right. I mean, do less needs to be the mantra. They're course correcting, and I think that would be good. But I think it's too late. I think Super Mirror movies are done. Like, maybe not completely done.
00:26:21
Speaker
Maybe we can maybe see some good ones that people will care about, but I think people are over them.
00:26:29
Speaker
I think we're in a good spot to where we're going to get some real fucking weird ones now because they're going to just start throwing shit at the wall. And I can't wait for that. That's what I want. I can't wait to see what sticks, dude. I want them to get fucking weird. Like they were in like the late 90s when no one fucking cared about superhero movies and superhero movies are just like we got a mystery man movie in 1999. Like, dude, we got the the the special last year with the fucking man thing. And why not? Like.
00:26:59
Speaker
Give me more of that shit. Let's go into other genres that maybe don't have as much to do with like the main story. Yeah. Like even something like Moon Knight, like is Moon Knight ever going to fucking show up again? I don't know. But that was a fantastic. That is one of the course correction things I've heard is now rated R movies are not off the table anymore. Right. Like we got that Deadpool coming up. Well, and you have your first F word in a Marvel movie and in Guardians earlier this year as well. Yeah. So.
00:27:29
Speaker
I think I think we're going to get some weird off the wall. I think we might get some horror shit. I'm excited. I mean, yeah, I know you've been looking forward to the horseshit. I think the first off the wall thing that Marvel did was Guardians of the Galaxy and that that paid out like a slot machine for them. Like it put these characters that no one had ever fucking heard of on the map. So put them at the top, do they even put them on the map? They just shot right to the fucking top. And that's and but but see, that's part of why I'm excited for James Gunn's take on
00:27:57
Speaker
on DC because he took these incredibly weird characters and gave them so much gravitas and so much life that people were excited to see them. And if he could do that even with the Suicide Squad, a group of characters that were pretty much reviled after that movie with the exception of Harley Quinn, like how much more could he do that for characters like Superman or the fucking Creature Commandos? I'm so excited for that book or for that movie. That book is fun.
00:28:26
Speaker
And for us to be able to get like a Creature commandos animated show, God, I'm excited for that. You know, I think I agree with you, Steven, but also statistics, I think are against us because I don't think film wise that James Gunn has made anything that short of fantastic.
00:28:49
Speaker
So he's due for a stinker, dude. He's due for a stinker. There are some filmmakers, and there are not very many of them. There are a handful that have just never made a bad film. And maybe James Gunn will be one. Maybe. Steven, your optimism about DC in general is a sight to see. More power to you, buddy. I love it. But here's the thing. Him being named president or co-chair or whatever of DC studios,
00:29:18
Speaker
filled me with hope for a DC movie for the first time since since Nolan left the Batman series. Like I was excited for those like I mean, because I think James Gunn understands story in a way that very few people leading a studio do outside of maybe Kevin Feige, but he seems to be a little more hands off with the overall thing these days. So or maybe he's just spread a little too thin.
00:29:44
Speaker
either way, like it's not bearing out for Marvel right now. And I think Gunn has an opportunity to do something really cool. And I could I look, I am prepared to be wrong. I've been wrong before will be wrong again. It's a thing I do quite often. So look, I don't hope it fails, by the way. I don't hope it fails. I'm just saying statistically speaking. And I love everything that James Gunn has put out.
00:30:09
Speaker
But I'm saying, man, like, I get it. Even even George Romero has bruiser and survival of the dead, man, like. Yeah. It's it's it's bound to happen at some point. I hope it doesn't. I get it, man. I do. I get it. For sure. You got to figure out a way to get people back on board at ground zero. Start over without like making it clear that you're doing that because that was apparently supposed to be what Blue Beetle was and nobody fucking knew that.
00:30:39
Speaker
So that this was, I mean, this movie was supposed to reset the bar for the whole universe. And the ending, I think muddies that incredibly. But we'll get into that when we talk about the ending, but yeah. Yeah, I think I think the ending that was a last minute change, probably. I will get into it. I have notes. Because I think when they were finishing up this movie, they were more like, let's just do something fun instead of giving a fuck if it like intertwines with anything else after this.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, because this this movie had a lot of cards stacked against it.
Tucker's Journey with Comics
00:31:12
Speaker
But before we get into all of that, Tucker, you had some more to say about the Flash.
00:31:15
Speaker
I did. Let me start my history with The Flash. My first comic book ever was the Batman comic where they retconned Jason Todd's origin. Instead of him being a carbon copy of Dick Grayson, Trappie's artist parents and all, he's a kid that lives on the street stealing Batman's fucking tires. Correct.
00:31:40
Speaker
And Batman is an asshole in that book, by the way. Read that issue. Like when I was a kid, all I do was Batman on TV, dude. Channel four, they'd play the monkeys and then they'd play Batman. Those are my two favorite shows when I was a kid.
00:31:55
Speaker
And so I got the comic book, I'm like, who the fuck is this? I think he just bitch slapped a kid. This guy's a dick. This guy's kind of an asshole. But anyway, so DC was kind of at the beginning of my journey into, you know, that kind of stuff, pop culture stuff. And I really enjoyed the Flash TV series in the 90s. I watched that quite a bit.
00:32:23
Speaker
Um, that costume, I just, I can't, it's syndicated, dude. They had it on channel four for like ever, but that costume, dude. I love it. It's ridiculous. Um, it's so muscular and it read that, that and the, the DCU flash cameo makes me want to watch the arrow verse flash TV show. I watched the crisis on infinite earth special.
00:32:56
Speaker
It was not good. No, I'll just say that it was not good. The guy the guy would play the Flash in the 90s series. He plays two characters in that show because he plays 90s Flash. Three. He plays three. Damn it. Now I got to watch. I don't even want to watch it. Like he plays Barry's dad. He plays the Flash from Earth three. And he plays his he reprise in the crisis mini series. He reprises his role as 1990 Flash. Yeah.
00:33:15
Speaker
and I am...
00:33:25
Speaker
Hell yeah. But anyway, so like, Brett's a Marvel dude. Steven's a DC dude. You're not gonna believe this, guys. I'm fucking right in the middle, dude. You're not gonna believe it. That's usually how this goes, yeah. Like, I grew up on DC. The 90s belonged to Marvel for me. But then when I became an adult, I just kind of split it down the middle and just
00:33:50
Speaker
You know, started looking at this and looking at that. I kind of, and by the time I became an adult, I was reading a lot more independent comics too. Like I don't, it's, it's most likely that if I'm reading a comic book now and since my twenties, there's like nine out of 10 times, it's not going to be a superhero comic.
00:34:10
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm kind of just I'm just kind of over them for the most part. If there's a good arc on something, like I'll check it out and I'll have a good time, especially if there's a limited run back when I was buying comics. I'd buy a lot of the limited series because a lot of those are usually pretty fun. It didn't even have to be a character I gave a shit about. Sure.
00:34:30
Speaker
Uh, but yeah, so I've always kind of, kind of liked both Marvel and DC. And I've always been a fan of, um, Zack Snyder's filmmaking style. And I enjoyed, um, all of the DCU movies that he did. Uh, though it's important to note, like I said, the ultimate cut of Batman V Superman, because the theatrical cut, I saw that at the theater and I did not like it. And like.
00:34:58
Speaker
It was a long time before I sat down and watched The Ultimate Cut just because I knew that I was still gonna hate it, but actually, no. I really, really liked that. That's what I've heard. And that's probably my least favorite of the DCEU film, so I'm kind of like...
00:35:15
Speaker
I was pretty excited about this one when it was coming out for a lot of reasons. One, because it seemed like it was going to be a fun movie. I saw the trailer and stuff. And usually if people hate it before it comes out, that's probably something I'm going to like.
00:35:32
Speaker
That is kind of your bread and butter. I'm a contrarian by nature, and I feel like you're even more contrarian than I am most times. I don't even mean to be. I'm just trying to stick up for the underdog, but this movie doesn't need me to, really, in my opinion.
00:35:52
Speaker
I, like I said, I've seen it, I've seen it four times and I just, it just works for me, man. Like I tried not to like it this time, but it's, it's kind of the reverse Amazing Spider-Man 2 for me. Like when I first saw Amazing Spider-Man 2 at the movie theater, I was like, that was, that fucking kicked ass. And then every viewing after that, like I hated it a little bit more. And now I just don't like it at all.
00:36:18
Speaker
It's not good. No, I expected that, and you could probably go back in podcast history and hear me say that I'm probably going to like it less the more I watch it, but I should have don't. Actually, I kind of like it a little more every time I watch it. Right. That's what happened to me. The more, when I first saw it, I was like, that was pretty cool. And then ever since, I just, every time, man, this gets worse and worse every time. Yeah.
00:36:41
Speaker
I kind of don't want to watch it again because I'm afraid of what will happen to my rating and my sanity. I'd watch it again. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. And for the rest of your life. And for the rest of my life. I could see this being a movie that I watch regularly every couple years or so.
00:37:04
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that for you for sure. Because I did like it. I really wish that there were I hope that there's enough people like me that did have a good time with it, that it warrants a release of like, the ultimate we have everything that we shot and it's here on this Blu Ray for you edition release, right? I don't I don't need it to be as a coherent film, we could even go through like, storyboards and stuff that they shot with like a commentary from the director or like a writer or something.
00:37:32
Speaker
just because I want I want to see what they had because Stephen, you know this because you researched it. But there are so many different versions of this movie. Yes. And like even after production started, I'm not just talking about the history of like it being in development hell since the fucking 90s. Right. But after production started, this movie changed so much. And I'm just so curious as to it's like the Weird Al movie where I was like, oh, man, there's got to be a lot of stuff.
00:38:02
Speaker
that we're not seeing for different reasons. Obviously, in this movie, I just I want to see that stuff. Yeah, for sure. I caught on it was on Wikipedia. They said something about how I think it was WGR WGA arbitration. But they they had to go through like they think it was this movie. They didn't say what movie, but it was a high profile superhero movie that had over the course of its screenplay, 45 different writers attached.
00:38:32
Speaker
And I'm gonna go through not quite that many over the course of my research here, but I'm gonna go through quite a few. And that's another thing that impresses me about this movie is just knowing even the broad strokes of the history of it, the fact that we even got a coherent film at all is a fucking miracle. I mean, it kind of depends on how coherent you want your film, but yeah.
00:38:54
Speaker
Oh, there's plot holes that you could drive a Winnebago through, sure.
The Flash Movie Development History
00:38:57
Speaker
But it still tells a story, an understandable story, you know, that you can understand and follow. Your mileage may vary, but yeah.
00:39:07
Speaker
I think we all know where I'm coming down on this one. Well, let's talk about the plot and then we can get into all of your- I was going to say, yeah, because I've got six pages of notes here and five and a half of those are just the development hell of this movie and the timeline of this movie.
00:39:27
Speaker
So yes, let's do the plot in 60 seconds. That's the part of the show where at the behest of the D6 of Destiny, we will decide which of the three of us will recount the plot of 2023's The Flash in 60 seconds or less. Brett has assigned each of us two sides of a D6. Brett, which of us has which sides? And let us know when you roll.
00:39:56
Speaker
So I'm going to be using my new revolver bullet base. Yeah. Son of a bitch. I sent you that tick tock and you're like, bitch, I already got those. And I was like, I bet you do about that shit two days before you tell me about them. And that shit arrived like the next day.
00:40:13
Speaker
Nice. I don't know how they were able to like overnight that bitch in the middle of Christmas season. But they did. Good for that. Straight up. It's the straight up flashworks there, dude. There we go. That's what it is. That's it. It looks like a fucking bullet. That is my D6. That's wonderful. So so who's got what side here, man? Man, I really again, I really should have written down what I've assigned to all. I think I'm one and two. And I'm three and four and Tucker's five and six. There we go. Yes, the pecking order.
00:40:45
Speaker
Yeah That is a one point. That's a one. Is that a one? No, it's a hard to read I'm gonna be honest. These are hard to read Really cool hard to read since I got assigned one in two Brett's been rolling like exclusively ones Does anyone else notice that? Well, there was that whole season that it was all Brett. So yeah, and then the next season it was all me and
00:41:09
Speaker
Then it was all me. I was really fucking hoping I wasn't gonna have to be the guy to do the plot on this one. Well, you don't have to be. Somebody want to volunteer. Do we want to make that a rule? Like, if you really don't want to do a plot, somebody can volunteer as trivia to take your place. Yeah, but who's going to? I would figure you would. You love this movie.
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, but I want to I like having fun watching you struggle through it. Yeah, I bet you do. It makes for great content, dude. That's what we do. We're, you know, all right. Make them content. This is going to fucking suck. Table is the best one. You always get so disgruntled about it, but like those are the best fucking ones. Oh, man. I want to speed racer this shit, Steven.
00:41:52
Speaker
I'm legitimately watching this movie going, I God, I hope I don't have to do the plot for this one because this is this is so plot dense in the worst way. It's like it. I almost want to volunteer because just to call Steven out just to prove me wrong. 60 seconds. Like, I mean, I can't limit squeezing, but put 60 on the clock. Let's do this, bitch.
00:42:15
Speaker
I believe in you, Steven, you can do this. I don't know what's up with us, but we've been saying bitch a lot in the last like five minutes. That's weird. Do it, dude. I'll pull up to Wikipedia and do it if you want me to. No, no, no, I'm doing it. The D6 spoke. You know, we must attribute. You know what happens when we when we defy the D6 or the the coin of justice, which I found, by the way, it is in my wallet right over there.
00:42:41
Speaker
I don't know what happens. Has bad things happened before? Yes. Oh. I don't remember. All right. If you say so, I guess. All right, then. Let me know when you got 60 on the clock. Give me the 30 and the 10. Yep, cool. Go.
00:43:02
Speaker
OK, so the Flash is he wants a sandwich, but he has to save Gotham. And then he does, and Batman and Wonder Woman are there. And then he goes and gets a sandwich, and he meets Iris, and she's cute, and he likes her, but he's super awkward. And his dad's going to prison for killing his mom, but he didn't do it. But the footage is grainy, so he can't prove it. So he decides he's going to go back in time by running really fast. And he changes the past, but then he also changes the future and the past. So his mom's alive.
00:43:32
Speaker
Michael Keaton is Ben Affleck and Superman's not there, it's Supergirl and then Zod comes and he gives his past self powers but then he loses his powers and then he gets his powers back through Supergirl and then they fight the Kryptonians because they don't want to use the Flash's Rogue Gallery for some god-awful unknown reason.
00:43:49
Speaker
Uh, and then, um, the younger flash wants to fix everything. And so he tries and it becomes dark flash. And then the multi-versions crash. There's a bunch of God awful cameos. And then he decides to let it go, put it back, but he still can't do it. And that's the game. All right. That was, that was not bad. It was not bad. Seems good to me. I left a lot on the, I left a lot on the table. You hit the broad strokes. Yeah. I did.
00:44:16
Speaker
You're stroking broad, Steven, so you're doing all right. So this movie, the life of the Flash movie begins in the late 1980s. And I don't have an exact year on this because none of the sources that I caught had an exact year, but sometime in the late 80s.
00:44:36
Speaker
Future comic book writer and future head of Marvel TV, Jeff Loeb, is tasked with writing a Flash movie. I'm not sure where that falls in relation to Tim Burton and Sam Hamm's Batman, which came out of course in 89 as we all know, but ultimately nothing came of that except for the fact that it gave Loeb his career in comics.
00:44:59
Speaker
He basically Jeanette Kahn read that script and was like, hey, you should come work for D.C. And so he did and became a comic book writer. So there you go. And then we're going to skip ahead to December to one or December 2004 is where we're going to skip ahead. David S. Goyer, the man who gave us Dark City, the Blade trilogy and Blade. Yeah. And there's Nolan Batman's.
00:45:26
Speaker
Batman Begins and the others that followed it. He is tasked with writing a Flash movie that he would also have likely directed as well. The script was said to have been inspired by the then-current run of Jeff Johns. His name's gonna come up a lot in this synopsis, at least in the early part, and would feature a tone similar to Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films. They are looking at Ryan Reynolds to be Wally West, which is the Flash three.
00:45:56
Speaker
Team is Wally West. I was going to say not as not as Barry Allen, not as Barry West. I was going to say Ezra Miller is doing more of like a Wally West impulse kind of thing than a Barry Allen in these kind of. Yeah, it's it's it's a bit of an amalgamation of of a couple of flashes for sure. For sure. But he would be facing off against Hunter Zolloman, also known as Zoom or later reverse flash would be the villain on that movie.
00:46:24
Speaker
Nothing really happens with that. February 2007, Goyer leaves the project and Sean Levy of Big Fat Liar and Night at the Museum fame signs on to direct a script penned by Chris Brancato or Brancato. I'm not sure how to pronounce that. He wrote Species 2. He would eventually write for Hannibal and he was also the creator, he would also become the creator of Narcos.
00:46:51
Speaker
So I take that snarky O back when after you said he wrote for Hannibal, like respect. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, a lot of shows ever for most of these guys, I've tried to like pick stuff that they had done prior to that. But in occasionally, occasionally their best work is definitely like ahead of them. So I have to go. They would eventually go on to write this. They would be good at one point. At some point, they will have done something you will have heard of.
00:47:18
Speaker
And that would have been a more lighthearted take on the character than Goyers would have been. Wally West would have squared off against Vandal Savage, one of my favorite DC villains. He's an immortal who's been around for literally forever. Hunter Zolomon would have been a prominent character, and also some B and C tier flash rogues like Heatwave, the Pied Piper, and Rainbow Raider would have been featured in there as well at some point.
00:47:46
Speaker
That film is ultimately scrapped after only a few months in development because right like a couple months after that DC announces a little movie called Justice League Mortal to be directed by one George Miller and they had cast Adam Brody as the Flash. Which then takes us from February 2007 to October 2007.
00:48:13
Speaker
David Dobkin of Shanghai Nights, Wedding Crashers, and Fred Claws fame signs on to direct the Flash spinoff from Justice League Mortal that would have starred Adam Brody, and the screenplay would have been written by Craig Wright, known predominantly at this point for his TV work on Six Feet Under and Lost.
00:48:33
Speaker
And then in January 2008, Justice League Mortal is put on indefinite hold as a result of the 2007, 2008 Writers Guild of America strike. And it is ultimately scrapped, including all of the sequels and spin-offs there. Including the video game that was almost all the way finished. Yep. BTW. Just dipping my toe into that video game corner. Just, that's it. Just kind of moving the dust around, moving the dust around. I'm going right back.
00:49:04
Speaker
Fast forward to July 2009, after one of the biggest years for comic book movies since the 90s, honestly. 2008 gives us Iron Man and the Dark Knight, so superhero movies are once again lucrative. And so that opens the door for another attempt to do a flash movie. This time it's Dan Mizzo who would go on to write scripts for both The Wrath of the Titans and Fast X.
00:49:33
Speaker
He would craft the screenplay for a film that would be produced by Charles Rovin, the man who gave us Angus, 12 monkeys, three kings. Future episode of this podcast, Bulletproof Monk, Scooby Doo and Scooby Doo, two monsters unleashed. And Batman begins among many, many, many others. Are you telling me that's the same guy what wrote Angus? Produced. In me? Produced Angus? Yeah. Did you guys ever see that movie? Yeah.
00:50:01
Speaker
What I think it's George C. Scott's like last film. I was the target audience. I was that age when that fucking movie came out. I was I was all about that motherfucker. Like my aunt had the job where she would go to the movie theaters and write down the trailers and write down the reactions and count the people that came in so that they could put it against the ticket sales, kind of like a secret shopper for movie theaters. And you get to watch three movies. Yeah, we've discussed this for sure. Yeah.
00:50:29
Speaker
You get to watch free movies all day, and I think I watched Angus at the movie theater. I probably saw it three or four times at the movie theater, and then I bought the VHS. I knew when I put Angus down, like I initially skipped Angus, didn't even put it on there, but I knew. I'm like, I have to put this on here, because I know this is a movie that Tucker straight up loves.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I haven't seen it in years. I'm afraid to watch it. I'm afraid to rewatch it because I don't want to sully the memory because from what I remember of it, I don't think it's going to hold up very well for me. Yeah, it's kind of a time and a place thing. I do want to watch it though. I struggle with it every time I see it streaming somewhere, which it rarely is. But when I see it, I'm like, should I? I don't know. I just want to keep the good times. Keep the memories, man. I don't want to fuck it up.
00:51:18
Speaker
So yeah, Charles Rovin, super producer Charles Rovin was set to produce and Jeff Johns, the comics writer, he's gonna come on board as consulting producer for the movie. But that is ultimately scrapped in October of 2009 because DC couldn't figure out if they wanted to prioritize a Justice League movie or not. So that whole thing just kind of languished that movie was scrapped and they ultimately didn't pick up their feet on the Justice League movie either.
00:51:44
Speaker
which brings us to June 2010. Having been named the Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment back in February, Jeff Johns tasks the writers of 2011's Green Lantern, which is to say future Arrowverse architect Greg Berlanti, Smallville and eventual Logan scribe Michael Green, and Eli Stone creator Mark Guggenheim to penned a Barry Allen-led film emphasizing Flash's athleticism.
00:52:12
Speaker
In fact, Guggenheim described the film as something like a sports movie. And then after Green Lantern, see our past episode on Green Lantern, after that movie disappointed, the Flash movie was ultimately scrapped as well. I think we mentioned on the Green Lantern episode that one was supposed to kick off the DC shared universe, but because Green Lantern sucked so bad, they kind of scrapped everything. I think Flash probably would have been a part of that, is my guess.
00:52:42
Speaker
and they probably would have gotten an athlete to play The Flash as my other guests. July 2013, with the success of Man of Steel the previous month, DC announces its intention to create a shared universe of films, which would eventually be called the DCEU. And at that point, they announced a Flash film that was supposed to be released in 2016 to be followed in 2017 by a little movie called Justice League. We got it early, you guys.
00:53:11
Speaker
So this movie begins in 20, the production of this specific movie begins in 2013. In October of 2014, I think literally a week before the Grant Gustin Flash show premieres, Ezra Miller is announced as the Flash of the DCEU, creating a lot of backlash from Arrowverse fans who I think thought
00:53:35
Speaker
They wanted to see Guston play that role on the big screen since he was already playing it on the small screen He had been on a few episodes of arrow and so they wanted to see him cross over I never understood that that's obviously above his pay grade. I agree obviously
00:53:54
Speaker
That was my first little hint that I was not going to DC movies because it's such a clear through line. Why are you doing this with different actors? It's already triggering my thing about continuity and roles. Oh, yeah, you do. I was out almost immediately. I was going to fuck. I'm going to be the same guy. I'm amazed that you don't just hate all the multiverse shit because that is such a great way to explain away any continuity errors.
00:54:24
Speaker
Well, this was before I knew about multiverses and whatnot. That's the perfect way to explain it away, and I'm okay with that. Check this out, Brett. As of now, as of right now, before the new DCU starts, we have four Batmans currently.
00:54:44
Speaker
We got Ben Affleck. We got Michael Keaton. I do want to see that Batgirl movie, by the way. Same. And we've got straight up George Clooney. And we've got Robert Pattinson. All at once. Adam West is in this movie, too. So that's technically fine. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I guess you're right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:03
Speaker
I was that was I think that was the the other world's cameo. Yeah, I liked the least just because it was him running, which I get it. But all the other ones were very like you had push ins and close ups and everything. But you just kind of went past his planet, even though you could hear Cesar Romero and what's his nuts? What's his not? Well, yeah, fuck. Yeah, that's what.
00:55:28
Speaker
That's where you know where you are is because you hear the kid and you're like, Oh, OK. Yeah. OK. Yeah. And then what's his nuts? It does the Riddler. I fucking love that. And Gorshin. Yeah. The fucking goat, man. Oh, he's the best. You hear all of them in there. But still, I wish like the benchmark by which all Batman villains performances are rated in my mind. It's so weird. Everybody hates the scene that that years before Power Man 5000 would describe as what it's like when worlds collide.
00:55:57
Speaker
But I kind of had a lot of fun with it, and I think the thing that stood out to me, though, as kind of odd, not bad, but kind of off-putting, is that they spent the most time on the incarnation that never made it past a costume fitting.
00:56:16
Speaker
Yep. Like, and that was cool. Like I was into that because that's old internet. That's not like Mimi. Like I hate Mimi shit, but that's old internet. That's like an evening with Kevin Smith. I was going to say that is in there for the meme. That's what that is. But it's evolved into that. I'm just saying it didn't start out as that. And to me, it's always that, that story from Kevin Smith and those, those photos, those photos we got of Nick Cage in that suit. Yeah.
00:56:44
Speaker
Yeah, I like that scene. Yeah. There are some that I really am kind of confused why they left them out. Like I wish there had been 90s flash. I got I got notes on the cameos later. Are you going to tell me about the ones that I want to be there, but they're not and why they're not. I'm going to tell you about the handful that the director actually mentioned.
00:57:06
Speaker
Um, but yeah, the ones that he was like, we, we had planned some of these and we wanted some others, but he basically said the list was long. So anyone you think of that could have been on there, they probably discussed. So, but see the biggest crime though.
00:57:24
Speaker
the one that needed to be there that wasn't the rest of my requests are just like for me, but the one that needed to be there. Where's Linda Carter, dude? She was she was one that they considered. She was a prominent one that they considered because any time I get that the Wonder Woman theme, any Wonder Woman theme, I'm into it. That's why I understand the Wonder Woman cameos are getting a little old, a little long in the tooth. That's pretty much all my characters. Any time you can pop that theme on,
00:57:53
Speaker
I'm alert and ready to go. Yeah, dude, it's so... I love that. Sorry. I love this movie too much, and I realize that I'm... It's just I like it a lot. This might be our new longest episode ever, because I'm on page two of six here. Jesus Christ. I'll just say that's why I hated that scene, because we could have gotten into Carter and much more better cameos, but instead we spent way too long on a Nick Cage meme.
00:58:24
Speaker
Anyway, Stephen, carry on. Right on. So at this point, they announced Ezra Miller is Flash, and they also announced the release date. They move it from 2016 to March 23, 2018. That spot will eventually be given to Tomb Raider. They will not actually do that movie then. In early 2015, James Wan
00:58:46
Speaker
of Saw past episode, Dead Silence and Furious 7 is offered the choice between directing either The Flash or Aquaman, and he decided to take Aquaman because he thought he could do a lot cooler stuff with Aquaman than he could with Flash. April 2015, Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, directors of Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, 21 Jump Street, and The Lego Movie begin writing their treatment for the DCEU Flash movie with the option to direct.
00:59:15
Speaker
And then in October of that same year, they leave to work on Solo A Star Wars Story, see our previous episode on that movie. Director of, or the writer of Dark Shadows and Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter, see our previous episodes on those movies. Seth Graham Smith steps in to tweak Lord and Miller's treatment, and he would have directed the film as well, making that his directorial debut.
00:59:42
Speaker
In February of 2016, the Flash solo film release date is pushed up a week from March 23rd to March 16th of 2018. You can get a lot done in a week. And apparently they didn't think he needed to.
00:59:59
Speaker
And then the next month, March 2016, Ezra Miller appears in a brief cameo in Batman v. Superman Dawn of Justice. The month after that, April 2016, Graham Smith leaves the project over creative differences. Keep those words in mind, they're gonna come up a lot. June 2016, Rick, I'm gonna mispronounce this man's name, and I'm very sorry, Funuyuwa,
01:00:26
Speaker
Rick Fumayewa, who directed Brown Sugar and Dope, went on to do several episodes of Ahsoka. He's brought on as director tasked with working on making Graham Smith's script more relatable to the young people, to the young folks.
01:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, and apparently he had kind of a darker tone in mind, which got some pushback. His major, his big contribution came the next month in July 2016. He casts one of the stars of Dope, Kirstie Clemens from Dope, Transparent, and Night, I'm sorry, Neighbors 2, Sorority Rising. She's brought on to play Iris West, and she manages to stay on all the way through production.
01:01:14
Speaker
in August of the same year. And she got to be in Justice League. So yeah, well, the the second one. But yeah, in July or I'm sorry, August 2016, Miller appears another brief cameo in Suicide Squad. At that point, also Ray Fisher's Cyborg is announced as a main cast member in The Flash. And it's also announced that Gal Gadot would appear as Wonder Woman.
01:01:41
Speaker
Yeah, I'm living off a busy street now, so the street noise is going to be wild. Do you want me to take that again? No, dude. No, dude. I love it. I love it. It's wonderful. You're riding your bike around while we're getting it. I'm just riding it around. The cats are on mopeds, just like moto crossing all around the living room.
01:02:06
Speaker
The next month, September 2016, Billy Crudup from Almost Famous, Big Fish, and our previous episode on Watchmen, signs on to play Barry's father. Oh, he was the original dad. Yeah. He signs on to play Barry's father, Henry Allen. I liked Office Space Guy, though. He was all right. Yeah. He was fine. He did all right. I'll never know that man's name. He'll just be Office Space Guy forever. Wrong Livingston. We'll get to him. Yep, I forgot. Office Space Guy. We'll get to him. I've got a few more pages to get through before I get to him.
01:02:36
Speaker
October 2016, weeks before production is slated to begin, Famuyiwa steps down as director, once again citing creative differences. The film is then put on indefinite hold while Miller leaves the film, or leaves to go film Fantastic Beasts, The Crimes of Grindelwald, which gives the studio time to find a new director. Oh yeah, because he was locked into that before he was fucking locked into DC shit. Correct.
01:03:04
Speaker
They. Yes, they were. Yes, sorry. The character in the film is he and Ezra Miller's they and I'm going to mix that up and I apologize for every time that I do that. I'm probably going to fuck it up if I haven't fucked it up already, but I'm going to really endeavor not to.
01:03:20
Speaker
In January 2017, Warner Brothers opts to make the film, take the film in a whole new direction. They hire Joby Harold, the person who wrote Awake, a future episode of this podcast, King Arthur Legend of the Sword as well, to do a page one rewrite. So just start over from scratch.
01:03:39
Speaker
and take it from there. Over the intervening months, they pretty much start looking for directors. By May 2017, Harrell turns in his draft of the script. Meanwhile, the studio is actively pursuing Robert Zemeckis as their number one choice, the man who gave us the Back to the Future trilogy, past episodes of this podcast who framed Roger Rabbit and Forrest Gump,
01:04:03
Speaker
He doesn't have it in it in it in it in it. He doesn't have it in him anymore. I agree. I wouldn't put my stock in him at all. They're also pursuing Matthew. I love you. Just saying Matthew Vaughn of layer cake kickass and the Kingsman films fame to direct the ones that had already by this point passed on the project. Sam Raimi, Evil Dead Spider-Man Mark Webb, the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man films 500 Days of Summer.
01:04:33
Speaker
Jordan Peele, Get Out, Us, NOPE, and Ben Affleck, Gone Baby Gone, Argo, and The Town. They had all passed on the movie, so DC has been trying real hard and coming up short pretty much across the board. Billy Crudup had already filmed some scenes for the then unreleased Justice League, but had to step down from the project while Warner Brothers looked for directors. Since it didn't look like it was gonna happen, he just kind of stepped away.
01:05:01
Speaker
You guys, can I just pause this for just a second and say? I'm sure the audience is grateful that you are. That Ben Affleck is my favorite on screen Batman. And he's my favorite on screen Bruce Wayne.
01:05:26
Speaker
I think he's fantastic. And it makes me sad that he's not going to be doing it. And in this movie, this you guys like this is a flash movie about as much as Civil War is a Captain America movie like and I get that. But this is there's a there's a lot of really good Batman shit happening in this movie. I love all the stuff with Ben Affleck.
01:05:48
Speaker
I love all the stuff with Michael Keaton outside of the the forced callback lines, which I'm sure Warner Brothers was like, All right, dude, you got to put these two in. We don't care where you put them. And they just tried to find the best part for the bless their hearts. You know, the best part to put them in. Yeah. But I loved all the Batman shit in this movie. Like the Batman shit, some of my favorite parts of the the Ben Affleck stuff and the Michael Keaton stuff in this movie.
01:06:13
Speaker
I like that I like Affleck's portrayal of Batman a lot. I just think the movies he's in are awful.
01:06:20
Speaker
I agree that the material is not up to snuff with his abilities and his take on the character, but I don't think those films are awful. So I kind of agree with you. If he had been, if he had been given a really good script, I think he could have. He would be widely regarded as one of the best Batman for sure. I'm just saying Affleck was the bomb as Batman, yo. That's all I'm saying. But also in Phantoms.
01:06:45
Speaker
Also in phantoms, and Elijah Dushku's in that too. That's a really good Patsy Cline song in that. Have you guys not seen phantoms? Let's watch phantoms, you guys. Is that on the list? Put that on the list. Word, bitch, phantoms like a motherfucker. Like a motherfucker, dude. Affleck, you to bomb in phantoms. Yeah, we know you listen. Applesauce, bitch.
01:07:22
Speaker
Classic Kevin Smith was good you guys to be alive So speaking of the Batman shit in this movie July 2017 San Diego Comic Con it is announced that the film was now going to be operating under the new title of flashpoint based on the 2011 Jeff Johns event comic that rebooted the DC Comics line into the new 52 and
01:07:37
Speaker
What a, what a, what a fucking weird movie. Hey, Gus Van Sant's counting money. I don't have time for this.
01:07:51
Speaker
The oft interpreted Flashpoint, like we've had animated movies, we had the fucking Arrowverse. Yeah, that you've got at some point, like it's a part of it's a critical part of Flash stuff that you have to include now, no matter how what he's in. It is it is to the Flash with the Dark Phoenix saga is to the X-Men.
01:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Pretty nice that twice or thrice. Yeah. Or whatever the the word for relates to that rhymes with twice is X-Men have done it twice in the movies and then once on the animated show, at least once on the animated show. So like it's yeah, it's it's it is that level for for the Flash or the killing joke for Batman. Yeah, that's a good one, too.
01:08:40
Speaker
Don't watch that animated movie, though. I won't. I haven't. I've noticed I've read about it and I was like, nope, I don't need to see that. Because you guys, it's a 100 percent faithful adaptation and it's wonderful, except one thing that they add that's a fucking deal breaker and it ruins the whole thing for you and a lot of other people. Yeah, just cut that out. It's it's the perfect like interpretation of a comic book to film. Yeah.
01:09:12
Speaker
Damn, you dirty old man. He is. He really is. He really is. It has been for years, but moving on. Paul Dini too. Yes.
01:09:25
Speaker
But most fans see this as DC or Warner Brothers trying to reset the script on the DCEU after the rumors surrounding the production of Justice League being fairly difficult that will come to bear in the years to follow. In August 2017, Gal Gadot confirms that Wonder Woman will appear in Flashpoint. November 2017, Jeff Johns- Every time we mention Wonder Woman, I'm going to put the little theme song in.
01:09:54
Speaker
Just a random, random, random!
01:09:57
Speaker
Is that correct pronunciation of her last name, by the way? That is how I've heard her pronounce it. OK, cool. Carry on. So I'm going to trust her. But yeah, November 2017, Jeff Johns all but confirms that Batman will appear in the Flashpoint movie, specifically the Thomas Wayne version that appears in the Flashpoint comic. You guys familiar with Batman as he appears in the Flashpoint comic?
01:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, he's a vampire guy. And yes, let's get Jeffrey Dean Morgan to do that, right? No, he Bruce Wayne is the one that gets shot in the alley instead of his parents and it his parents go in two different directions. Thomas Wayne becomes like obsessed with justice and bringing criminals to justice. Yeah. And his mom's a joker. But doesn't doesn't he become a vampire at some point?
01:10:44
Speaker
I don't think so. That's a completely separate story where Dracula shows up in Gotham and... Yeah, Gotham by Gaslight. I don't think it was Gotham by Gaslight. Oh, no, that's a different one. I thought that was the Thomas Wayne version, though, that got vampirized. I don't think so, no. Okay. Because that Batman carries on as a vampire. He doesn't get cured at the end or anything. Yeah. I mean, it's just a vampire after that in that universe. Yeah.
01:11:09
Speaker
But I did, you know, speaking of Jeffrey Dean Morgan, I don't know if there was anything official, but there were a lot of people that were wanting him to reprise his role as Thomas Wayne in this movie. Including Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Get him anything with Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Get him in front of the eyes. I'm into it.
01:11:25
Speaker
He is publicly promoting himself as wanting to reprise his role. In fact, when Keaton gets cast, he's openly joking that Keaton stole the role from him. He wanted to be in this movie real, real bad. Old Daddy Winchester, man. This is Jeffrey D. Morgan. Let's do it. Let's go. Hell yeah.
01:11:45
Speaker
Meanwhile, Ezra Miller and Billy Crudup appear as their Flash characters in Justice League. Clemens had filmed scenes, but those were deleted from the theatrically released film. More on that later. Wait, who did? Who got deleted? Who filmed and got deleted? Kirsty Clemens, Iris West. Oh, okay. Yeah. This didn't remind me really quick. It was a quick side note. Sort of unrelated.
01:12:10
Speaker
I just want to share because it's great The new Teen Titans the newer Teen Titans animated series. That's uh, I think is not running anymore But the Teen Titans go yeah. Yes. Yes
01:12:27
Speaker
Um, teen Titans go to the polls. There was no, there was an episode. Uh, I forget what the conceit was, but there was a point in the episode where they have to go back and reset the timelines of all the justice league members. So that way their origins happen the way they're supposed to become heroes like they're supposed to, um, which includes Batman.
01:12:49
Speaker
Which includes Robin having to go back in time to the alleyway and make sure that Ben and his parents are killed. That's dark. I think they each have an item that they have to take back, I think, and it's the pearl necklace. He takes the pearl necklace into the alleyway and you see the gunshots. And he comes back and they all cheer because they succeeded in doing what they were supposed to do. Oh my god.
01:13:16
Speaker
is is great because that is a fun show. They have a lot of really fun, fun ideas on that show. They take it a lot of weird places. I like the one where they go to the polls.
01:13:28
Speaker
Sure. Sorry, it's my riff on that dumb Hillary Clinton line. January 2018, tired of waiting for Robert Zemeckis' schedule to free up. Warner Brothers goes ahead and goes after John Francis Daly and Jonathan Goldstein, directors of Future Episode Vacation, directors of Game Night, and eventually Dungeons and Dragons, Honor Among Thieves. Oh, I like that movie. You both did.
01:13:54
Speaker
You haven't seen it, Steven? You ain't watching it. Not yet. You son of a bitch. You're a bitch. He brings them on as writer-directors, tasking them with making a more lighthearted film than what had been adapted previously. They get confirmed in March, and then on March 18th. That's when Tomb Raider comes out, because that was the original release date for The Flash, and it doesn't really have a release date until
01:14:20
Speaker
later. April 2018, the title reverts from Flashpoint back to just the Flash, although the script does retain obvious Flashpoint references. October 2018, filming is set to begin in February 2019, but
01:14:38
Speaker
Ezra Miller is in Fantastic Beasts, Secrets of Dumbledore. And so that delays filming once again. Warner Brothers sets the film's release date to sometime in 2021, just vaguely off in the distance. You know what would be really fantastic marketing is if the soundtrack to Fantastic Beasts is called Fantastic Beats. Mmm. That's all I got. That's all I got. Yes.
01:15:06
Speaker
Moving on. March 2019, Ezra Miller concerned with the lighter tone the film is taking seeks out comic scribe Grant Morrison, my favorite boy to help your boy. Well, chip person. But yeah, Grant Morrison also they then pronounce also non binary.
01:15:25
Speaker
Um, but, uh, Grant Morrison to help them pen a new script, uh, that Morrison described as a flash story, uh, with elements, sci-fi elements akin to back to the future. Uh, in May, Warner brothers rejects that. Starting Eric Stoltz, right? It's the Eric Stoltz one that they're basing that on, right? Of course. What else? Yes. That's fun. You guys, that's fun. Let me show you my tattoo. Hang on. Let me hoist my leg up here.
01:15:53
Speaker
You guys, that's one of my favorite scenes is because I've lived in that apartment before. That does not surprise me either. You guys, I really, really have. I love that fucking scene. All the outside characters, his pals from the lab or whatever in the original continuity, and they're so different. And Homegirl is just like burping words. I'm burping.
01:16:22
Speaker
Yeah. Rolled down to the fridge with barely anything in it. Fantastic. I really liked that. Sorry. A rotting conch of broccoli and...
01:16:35
Speaker
Where am I at? I mean, oh, yeah, so Warner Brothers rejects this that script in May But does ask that Miller remain on as star as his option or their option. Excuse me. Their option had was set to expire July 2019 daily and Goldstein leave the film Guess why guys when it going to take a guess as to why um, they Was it because
01:17:01
Speaker
I don't know. Creative differences. What? I know. I can't believe that. That's that's strange. So strange. Never happened before. Never and never will again. Christina Hodson, who would write a future episode of this podcast, Bumblebee and the then upcoming Birds of Prey film, she has brought on to write the screenplay. Which I thought was fine. I liked it. I liked it.
01:17:26
Speaker
I always forget about it as far as DCU movies go, but it was pretty all right. It also has one of the best looking sandwiches ever to appear on a film screen. So that bodega breakfast sandwich. Holy shit. That looks so good.
01:17:41
Speaker
But she's brought on to write the screenplay and Daly and Goldstein do receive a story credit. So basically she's using their idea and building on it. Andy Muschietti of Mama It and It Chapter Two takes over as the film's director. And filming is set to begin in 2021 after Miller's commitments to Secrets of Dumbledore wrap. Look, I hope this doesn't put him in director jail.
01:18:10
Speaker
Because you know like I liked those it movies and say what you will about this movie it outside of objectively some of the CGI It looks fantastic Like when you really sit and pay attention to this movie, there's so much visually going on That is pretty subtle that is pretty fucking brilliant. I love the way this movie looks and
01:18:35
Speaker
And I know I don't believe the director that the CGI was supposed to be shitty, but I do think for me specifically in the big, uh, world's collide cameo scene, I think it kind of works for me in that context. I know I, I think it's bullshit that it was supposed to look shitty because that's not a real place.
01:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, because that worked for me. That really, really fucking
Ezra Miller's Controversies
01:19:04
Speaker
worked for me. Like, I think in the Chronosphere, whatever the fuck they call it, I think that's where it's supposed to look shitty. But like the baby shower at the beginning, that's not supposed to look shitty. And it really does. Though that's too much fun to care if it looks shitty for me. Which fight scenes the Batman fight scenes were all amazing. The Affleck one was great. All the Keaton stuff was there was some rubbery shit.
01:19:26
Speaker
specifically the Kryptonian fight scenes are really and though the ones in Russia also are really look there's there's some rubbery shit with the Batman fight scenes but I grew up on Blade 2 okay like I've seen bad rubbery CGI people and these are not that bad not distractingly enough not distractingly so for me at least
01:19:50
Speaker
You say, come on, Blade 2, come on. He looks like Stretch Armstrong, Blade coming down that fire escape. I mean, it's the best of the Blade movies by a country mile. I'll tell you that. I disagree. The first one's the best. The second one's boring. And the third one is fun, but it sucks. I concur. Yeah. Hey, all right. Well, I'm with you, fellas.
01:20:15
Speaker
April 2020, one month into the COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns, Warner Brothers moves the release date up from July 1st, 2022 to June 3rd, 2022. Meanwhile, a tweet begins circulating featuring Ezra Miller apparently choking a woman in Iceland, thus beginning the Ezra Miller troubles. Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice.
01:20:45
Speaker
Thank you for that, Brett. That's amazing. June of 2020, Michael Keaton enters talks to reprise his role as Bruce Wayne Batman from Batman 1989. Now, was he already signed on for the Batgirl? That I don't know. I didn't research the Batgirl. He was probably signed on for this first and they were like, hey, what if you do the Batgirl shit too?
01:21:14
Speaker
This is golly. Based on the original ending for this film, I think the intention was to have Keaton replace Affleck in the DCE. Yeah, he was going to be old man Bruce for sure. We were going to get some Batman Beyond, apparently. And and Sasha come next. Sasha was supposed to replace Henry Cavill. That's the worst fallout from this film for me, because she is fucking phenomenal.
01:21:42
Speaker
She is, I think, the biggest waste of attention of this movie. I love her in this role. And I've never seen Supergirl like that, man.
01:21:51
Speaker
Super, my super girl is the one they CG next to Christopher Reeve, man. Helen Slater, that feature episode of this podcast, yeah. I loved that movie when I was a kid. Then I watched it and I was a teenager and I was like, this is garbage. And I watched it since, but I loved that movie when I was a kid. You will again. You'll get your chance. Don't worry. I can't wait to watch it again because even though I don't like it, I'm excited to kind of relive it a bit and have fun with the fun parts that obviously appeal to my child mind.
01:22:19
Speaker
In August of 2020, both Keaton and Affleck are confirmed to be playing different versions of Batman.
01:22:25
Speaker
October 2020, Billy Crudup enters talks to rejoin the cast as Henry Allen, and the film's release date is pushed back, this time to November 4th, 2022. In January 2021, Ray Fisher officially leaves the film, claiming that he will never again work for Warner Brothers or play Cyborg in the DCEU, as long as Walter Kamada remained president of DC Films.
01:22:53
Speaker
Hamada would eventually step down in October 2022 just before the release of Black Adam.
01:23:05
Speaker
Uh, February, 2021, Sasha Calle from the young and the restless signs on as Cara's oral supergirl marking her first feature film. And Billy Crudup has also confirmed at that time to be returning as Henry Allen. Oh, she's mad in this movie too. And I believe it. I believe she's mad as fuck. She gets mad. I'm like, whoa, whoa. Whoa. Watch out now. Whoo.
01:23:31
Speaker
She's scary, dude, I love her. March 2021, Zack Snyder's Justice League debuts on HBO Max, including the deleted footage filmed with Keirsey Clemens, who at this very same month reaches a new deal with WB to rejoin The Flash. Maribel Verdu from Pan's Labyrinth signs on to play Barry's mother, Nora Allen. And at the same time, Billy Crudup departs the film, citing scheduling conflicts with his Apple TV Plus show, The Morning Show.
01:23:59
Speaker
And Ron Livingston from Office Space, Band of Brothers and The Conjuring is brought on to replace him later in the month. April 2021, principal photography begins in London. Ray Fisher publicly states that he would return to the film if Warner Brothers were to make amends with him. They don't.
01:24:20
Speaker
That's all you got to do. Just just say you're sorry, man. Come on, guys. It's not that fucking hard. December 2021, after filming raps, Michael Shannon and Auntie Trow are confirmed to be reprising their roles from Man of Steel, something that was apparently very confusing to Michael Shannon, who I've seen in an interview saying they want you to come back. He goes, well, because, you know, I watched Man of Steel and at the end of that movie, they
01:24:45
Speaker
Superman snaps my neck. Like I famously die in that movie. So that's the whole point of that movie is that he kills Zod. I got a I got a call from my agent saying they want me to come back. I said they saw a man of steel, right? And they say he's a yes, they saw a man of steel.
01:25:01
Speaker
It's different. It's a, it's a multiverse. And I said, I don't know what that is. And I'm just like, God, Michael Shannon, I love you so much. And then they started adding zeros and he was like, I don't care what that is. I mean, he and Michael Keaton, I think are both just kind of like.
01:25:17
Speaker
This is a paycheck movie for both of those. I disagree. I completely disagree. For Zod, yes, because he has publicly gone on the record to be like, yeah, superhero movies fucking suck and I hate them. But if they pay me enough, I'll be in them. And Michael Keaton seems to be genuinely having a good fucking time in this movie.
01:25:35
Speaker
I mean, I'm having a good time right along with delivering those iconic callback lines makes me feel like he'd rather be anywhere else. Yeah. Those two fucking lines. I'd rather be anywhere else too. And he says those two lines, but you got to put them in there somewhere. Like you don't know you really don't age. You do. You do. If they didn't put those in there. Look, if you put them in there, people are going to bitch. If you don't put them in there, people are going to bitch even fucking harder.
01:25:59
Speaker
I remember people hearing hit the because the let's get nuts line is in the truth both those lines were in the trailer and when the that gets nuts a lot let's get nuts line is in the trailer I remember a ton of people going that really that line that's the one you want to put in this movie.
01:26:14
Speaker
Like, I mean, it doesn't exist within context, but it does feel very, very forced. It really doesn't, though. I mean, they are about to get nuts, are they not? They're about to take on this huge thing. It's like right when like Supergirl comes and gives Barry back his powers by shocking him again. And they're all together. And he's like, All right, straight up, I guess I'll help you. Let's say you want to get nuts. Let's fucking get nuts. I agree. It's a reach. But
01:26:42
Speaker
It's not that far of a reach. And like I say, I don't like those. Look, I don't I don't like those two lines being in the movie. The I'm Batman one, at least kind of works. But both of those lines, I wish they weren't there. But like I say, you don't you don't get this. You don't get Michael Keaton in a DC movie as Batman now without something like that being in there. So I would say we got off relatively lucky that it wasn't that bad.
01:27:11
Speaker
and the fact that they didn't fucking do that the whole time. You know, for a movie that people bitch about fan service in, there's really not a lot.
01:27:22
Speaker
There's really, really not a lot, and a lot of it is subtle. Did you watch the same movie? I guess not, dude, because I was not distracted by anything like that, and your boy is somebody who's getting sick of that kind of shit, honestly. Because literally the entire, like, last act of this movie is just fan service on top of fan service on top of fan service. What, the cameo thing, yeah. Yeah. What else? That's all that is.
01:27:49
Speaker
It's like 30 seconds. You build the entire set piece of the finale of your movie around fanservice. How is that? How is that barely any fanservice, man? I disagree. I agree with you, Tucker, but you're trying to argue with noted nostalgia hater, Steven. So like, you're not going to convince him otherwise.
01:28:08
Speaker
look and i'm i'm somebody who is is kinda i have a very complicated relationship with nostalgia because i try not to be that person but it's hard not to be sometimes but for this movie it didn't i don't know like i don't understand why you think that in the two hours and forty five minutes of this movie or two hours and thirty minutes whatever it is that there's a shit ton of fan service because
01:28:38
Speaker
I mean, outside of that one scene and the two Batman lines. You also got the Supergirl line, I've got you. There's just a callback to the original Richard Donner film. They pepper it in, but it's all there. Oh, so it's subtle? You told me it's subtle? Oh, good. The best kind of fan service. That's the kind of fan service I love, the subtle shit. Compared to the movie that shall not be named that is dripping in it, which I completely admit to, but love it anyway.
01:29:08
Speaker
Yeah, compare that to this. And that's and that's the even though I do I am on the positive side on the movie that shall not be named. That was the part of it that anything negative I have to say about that movie is fuck, really? We're doing this again. Oh, we're doing this again. Oh, we're doing this again. And the Flash didn't feel like that for me at all, with the exception of those two lines. And I found the the world's colliding part with all the cameos and stuff, like I said before,
01:29:37
Speaker
I fucking liked that. Oh, my eyes about rolled right out of my head. And there were a couple incarnations that aren't even popular that nobody cares about. And I'm glad they were there. I'm glad George Reeves was there. You know, I'm glad they made reference to the Golden Age Flash, even though it was just like some random crew members face. They slapped on there.
01:29:58
Speaker
George Reeves, who notoriously hated playing Superman and thought the role destroyed his life. Yeah, let's let's call that. Well, yeah, it almost it almost fucking kills him, man. Do you see that? You see that movie with Ben Affleck as George did? That's a real thing that happened with that kid, dude. That's a real fucking thing that happened. I know. Ben Affleck, you know, the actor shot that dude, Superman and Batman. But yeah, shot him, dude. That's fucked up.
01:30:42
Speaker
March 2022 is when the Ezra Miller troubles begin in earnest. Warner Brothers once again before those start adjusts the film's release date to June 23rd, 2023. Meanwhile Ezra Miller becomes the subject of no fewer than 10 different calls to police in Hawaii for various minor infractions from filming people at a gas station to loitering outside a restaurant to arguing in public.
01:30:47
Speaker
This is America, continue.
01:31:08
Speaker
Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice. They are arrested on March 28, after a physical altercation at a karaoke bar in Hilo, or Hilo, claiming to have been, quote, accosted by a Nazi, though the police report indicates Miller screamed profanities, attempted to grab a mic away from someone singing the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga song, Shallow, and spitting in the face of patrons.
01:31:33
Speaker
I heard that wrong. I heard that he had done that in the reaction to the one millionth time that somebody butchered Paradise by the dashboard light. And I was going to say, I don't blame them for that, but I guess my source was wrong. And again, I'm going off of this is specifically the Rolling Stone report is what I was going off of there. So that was a bit I didn't actually hear that.
01:31:57
Speaker
Miller was ultimately bailed out by a couple they were staying with in Hawaii who paid for their $500 bail. Later that same night after they paid their bail, the couple would ultimately end up getting restraining order because Miller stole the wife's passport, the husband's wallet, barged into their room and basically threatened to kill them. So yeah.
01:32:27
Speaker
Uh, let's, let's get this out of the way. Ezra Miller is extremely mentally ill and I think they need help. I don't condone anything that they did, but it's very obvious that this person needs some psychological help.
01:32:45
Speaker
Something that they will ultimately admit themselves, but that's still a ways off because I read all this shit too. And it's fucking weird, man. It gets, it gets that they do is fucking weird. Like it's weird. That's weird. It's weird.
01:33:00
Speaker
April 2022 Miller once again arrested for second degree assault after throwing a chair at a woman, which causes an inch long gash to be cut in her forehead. They ultimately plead no contest to the previous month's karaoke incident and refined $500 for disorderly conduct. Later in the month of April after returning to their ranch in Vermont,
01:33:22
Speaker
Miller began housing a woman that he had met, or they had met, excuse me, in Hawaii, who was attempting to escape her abusive husband with her three children. And while there, they were exposed to weapons, ammunition, and drugs, including allegations that Miller would blow marijuana smoke in the one-year-old's face. That's fucked up. Don't do that, people. There are also additional allegations made by Rolling Stone that Miller was running an unlicensed marijuana cultivation operation.
01:33:54
Speaker
June 2022, the parents of 18-year-old Dakota Iron Eyes requested a protective court order against Miller from the Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council on behalf of their 18-year-old daughter due to Miller's use of quote, violence, intimidation, threat of violence, fear, paranoia, delusions, and drugs in order to control their daughter.
01:34:24
Speaker
their relationship began in 2016 when Iron Eyes was 12 and Miller was 23. I was gonna say she wasn't 18 when they met. Nope. And their relationship included him or included Miller rather transporting her across straight state lines and out of the country as well. Just like Chuck Berry.
01:34:50
Speaker
including flying her out to England to visit the set of one of the Fantastic Beasts films. Separately, the same month, June 2022, the mother of a 12-year-old child in Massachusetts was granted a temporary harassment protection order against the neighbor for inappropriate behavior toward her child.
01:35:16
Speaker
The order was eventually lifted. Miller's attorney alleged that all interactions between Miller and the child were initiated by the mother herself.
01:35:27
Speaker
Now, the worst part about these stories of of him with these underage girls is that the stuff that's available, the information that's available like that's that's just a generalization of what happened. Right. Like and some of it implies like some of the weirdest fucking shit like what he he showed up like dressed as a cowboy like at one point for some shit like like offered to buy horses. What the fuck?
01:35:56
Speaker
fuck man help this person please someone before anybody else gets hurt from from my understanding they are currently seeking help for their for their complex mental health issues um but to to listen to all this stuff and it all kind of happens like right in a row here because this is like during the post-production period on the movie so like it
01:36:19
Speaker
just feels like they're just doing these one right after the other. This is behavior that's gone on for years prior. Well, even here all flowers, man, since being a wallflower since dude was like, or they were like, even younger, like there's
01:36:35
Speaker
pattern. There was one. There was one instance that I didn't put on here from 2011 because they weren't cast at that point. So I didn't. It wasn't relevant at that moment. But there is one incident of misconduct back in 2011 during, I think, perks of being a wallflower. But which is a fantastic film, by the way, if you haven't seen it. Yeah, it's been a long time. I just remember Melanie was very good and very disturbing in that movie.
01:37:04
Speaker
August, 2022, Oliver Ignatius, a former music collaborator of Miller's, claimed to have witnessed Miller verbally abusing Dakota Iron Eyes. She would later dismiss these claims as homophobic. Miller is also charged at this point with burglary after stealing bottles of alcohol from a private residence. In May of 2022, Miller claimed the home was that of a childhood friend who had allowed them to enter the premises to obtain rice wine for cooking. Later this month,
01:37:35
Speaker
later this month Miller would release a public apology through their rep claiming to be seeking professional help for their complex mental health issues.
Changes in DC Studios Leadership
01:37:48
Speaker
In November 2022, James Gunn and Peter Safran are announced as the new heads of DC Studios and would be spearheading a soft reboot of
01:37:57
Speaker
the DCEU calling the future of the shared universe into question in the wake of the box office disappointments of Black Adam and Shazam Theory of the Gods. It was the two of them that would ultimately reshoot this film's ending to the one seen in the final theatrical release.
01:38:16
Speaker
December 2022 reports began to surface that Henry Cavill and Jason Momoa had filmed cameos for the film. However, just as quickly, Henry Cavill's cameo is reported as having been cut, along with Gal Gadot's due to DC's decision not to move forward with sequels of Man of Steel and Wonder Woman 1984. Obviously one of those decisions was reversed, the other was not.
01:38:41
Speaker
January 2023, James Gunn tweets that The Flash is quote, probably one of the best superhero movies ever made. February 2023, after meeting with David Zaslav, who was praising the film in his presence, Tom Cruise asked to see it and to send a copy to his Beverly Hills home. Cruise so enjoyed his private screening that he called up the director to praise the film himself claiming it was quote, everything you want in a movie.
01:39:11
Speaker
Last page, guys. I mean, Stephen King liked it, too. And you know what? I kind of look. I I really think this movie is fantastic, so I kind of agree with all of those things. And look, Stephen, if you trust James Gunn to do everything that he's supposed to do and to make the things that that you straight up love. He straight up loves this movie, dude.
01:39:39
Speaker
I so it's it's so it's so weird. There's no accounting for taste, I guess. But no, no, I agree. And I think James Gunn is the kind of guy, especially from where he came from, that can appreciate a lot of things that maybe some people can't write. I mean, I think his spirit, if you will.
01:40:01
Speaker
man got his start in trauma. So like that, that's to be expected for sure. I'll bet he likes Pootie Tang just saying he does. And just because I admire his filmmaking doesn't mean that he and I share the same tastes or sense of no, no, that's that's not that's not what I was implying. I was just saying that I
01:40:22
Speaker
I don't know, I think the point is that I think it takes someone that can't appreciate all different kinds of things to make the kind of things that James Gunn does because he takes the good parts out of some of those things that other people thinks are shitty and turns them into something that everyone can appreciate.
01:40:39
Speaker
And I think he understands like basic storytelling structure and things like that enough to be able to craft. Again, I think that's why the Guardians films are some of the most affecting in the MCU is that he really and he he crafts all three of those films as one cohesive story to the extent that
01:40:58
Speaker
like you're paying off things in the third movie that he sets up at the beginning of the first one. And it's it's a it's it's maybe the best superhero trilogy ever made because there's not a weak film in it. Like it's just I agree. I agree with you, Steven, completely. I think every Guardians of the Galaxy movie is leagues better than the Flash film. But. In the same breath. If you ask me if I wanted to watch any of those,
01:41:29
Speaker
or The Flash, I'd say probably nine out of 10 times, I'd say The Flash. Oh, see, I couldn't, I couldn't bring myself to do that. That's wild. And this is me saying that I recognize that all three of those films individually, not even together, are leagues better than The Flash. But I think, I don't know, for me, this is kind of the perfect popcorn movie, but it's also
01:41:56
Speaker
I don't know. It has its its roots in things that can be a little more highbrow. So I don't know. It's difficult to explain. But even though the Guardians movies are better, to me, this film is more entertaining. It has more replay value for me. At least the third one, I don't know that the first one and the second one, it would be a tough decision if somebody gave me a choice to be like, I don't know.
01:42:26
Speaker
But the third one is the best. I would agree. Arguably the best of the series. And I remember when I saw it, I was even like, this is the best of the series, but I'd much rather watch the first two any day. It's because even though it's a better movie, it's just not as entertaining. It doesn't have as much replay value. And that kind of goes with the territory when you're, you know, trying to do more of a character driven emotional film.
01:42:52
Speaker
Oh, great. I mean, it's complicated is what I'm saying. It's fucking complicated, you guys, but I love this movie and it's complicated. It's it comes down to a matter of taste and preference. And this film kind of doesn't doesn't really do it for me. I'm glad it does it for you. It doesn't really work for me. I wish that it did for you because and this was something that I noticed in a lot of early reviews. And this was certainly true when I saw it.
01:43:20
Speaker
everybody at the theater that I was at was fucking losing their shit over this movie. Like, I guess the people that didn't like it were just the loudest. But like, dude,
01:43:35
Speaker
Everybody loved this movie. When I went and saw the theater, like all the appropriate moments, people were going nuts. And like, I don't even like that kind of shit. Honestly, like put me in an empty theater. Like the communal, the communal experience is, uh, you know, mostly I like the communal experience, but sometimes don't sing alone to Mary Poppins. Yeah. For every flash or end game experience, there is a five nights at Freddy's experience and we just, you know,
01:44:06
Speaker
happens. For me, it was a quiet place. That was the one that
01:44:14
Speaker
annoyed me because there were like people like on their phones in that movie and I was just, it took everything in my power not to just chuck popcorn at them. Did you guys say something to him, Steven? Like I said, like I said to those kids. You can't say anything in because that movie is like, you could hear a pin drop during that movie. That's kind of why I liked it and why I wanted it to be better is because you've got people all around you and no one is making a sound because they're so engrossed in that movie.
01:44:42
Speaker
except the ticking of their keyboards and their smartphones. I'm saying, Steven, you got to say shit to people at movie theaters because you paid a lot. You paid a lot to be there. And like, man, when I saw across the spider verse, dude, there was these kids would not shut up 20 minutes in. I just shouted across the the the hall, the the what's that thing called? You walked to the aisle and I was like, you know, shut the fuck up.
01:45:12
Speaker
And you know what? They didn't say shit the rest of the movie. I'm just saying, sometimes you just gotta let people know how fucking rude they're being.
01:45:20
Speaker
And then you can enjoy the rest of your movie that you paid 20 fucking bucks to see. But I would say for every time that that works, there's three times where you either get into a fist fight or shot after that. Depending on where you are. Yeah. Depending on where you are. You're you're rolling the dice. Oh, yeah. Context matters for sure. Rules are rules, but context matters. That's that's why I teach all of my incoming camp hosts.
01:45:46
Speaker
And it's true in a lot of different contexts. It does. All right. Almost done, guys. April 2023, the Flash premieres at CinemaCon where it receives mostly positive reviews despite unfinished special effects. Crowds love it. Crowds love it. Although later, a lot of attendees to CinemaCon would say that the special effects really did not improve.
01:46:09
Speaker
Based on what they saw at CinemaCon? Yeah, that's what I've heard that there wasn't much change. That pretty much the unfinished effects there really were the finished effects. Machete confirms his initial assembly cut was four hours long, prompting fans to immediately A, mistake it for a director's cut and B, beg to see it.
01:46:30
Speaker
I don't want a four hour cut of this movie. Release the machete cut. No, no, no. Look, I would love. I would love to see the stuff that they cut out of this, but I don't need a longer version. It would be like it's like the director's cut of The Frighteners.
01:46:49
Speaker
It's fun to see all that different stuff. But nah. Mm hmm. Same with Payback. Like, oh, that's a completely different movie, but I kind of like the one studio fucked with better. Sometimes studio meddling works. Most times it doesn't. But look, an assembly cut is not a director's cut. An assembly cut is just it is the first draft of a basically it's the first draft of a story. It's putting the script.
01:47:17
Speaker
on the screen and then going in and seeing what works and what doesn't after you fucking shot it. What helps the pacing hurts the pacing what you need to reshoot what you what it's there to help you figure out what works. It is not a director's cut. Quit calling it assembly cut a director's cut. Bitches, it ain't the same. Truth.
01:47:39
Speaker
Finally, June 2023, despite rave reviews from studio heads and participants at early test screenings, The Flash is released in theaters to a disappointing $55 million opening weekend, and a B CinemaScore tying with Batman v. Superman Dawn of Justice as the lowest rated CinemaScore for a DCEU film. Have these people seen, like, you know, Black Adam?
01:48:08
Speaker
Black Adam got a B plus. Oh, must it's that Pierce? It's the Pierce Brosnan bump, dude. Must be. And look, Dwayne the Ron Johnson, we've we've we've mentioned him on this podcast before. Big, big ass star.
01:48:23
Speaker
Yeah, dude, he puts the butts in the seats. Well, not not the Black Adam seats, but most other movie seats. Yes, he will. He's supposed to put the butts in the seats. That's that's that's why that's why you hire him. Yeah. Right. Even even his stock in Hollywood is dropping. So Patrick H. Willems, one of my favorite YouTube essayists, did a really great essay a while back about when
01:48:51
Speaker
when actors become brands, specifically focusing on The Rock and Ryan Reynolds, and their kind of descent from actors to just brands unto themselves. It's a really interesting essay, for sure. I would argue you can pull yourself out of that, though. Because, for example, like, I think if you're making money, do you want to? That becomes the question.
01:49:14
Speaker
I don't know, like as, as an artist myself, I'd like to think, you know, I would, I would use the method that people like Nick Cage use, you know, one for them, one for me, one for them, one for me, you know, one for the paycheck and then something I really fucking want to do. But so often that because so few movies are getting made, that becomes a more and more difficult prospect.
01:49:39
Speaker
So now, right now, so few movies, compared to what? Compared to when so few movies are being made. Well, okay. So many, so few different kinds of movies. Let me say that. It's mostly the same kinds of movies. It's either Oscar bait or big budget shit.
01:49:56
Speaker
The mid budget movie is gone. I would argue that there are more kinds of movies now than there ever have been. Every genre is represented like every fucking day. Like every streaming service has every movie and there are hundreds of them that come out. I'm not saying any of them are good. Streaming service, though, that's the difference. I'm talking theatrical, man. OK. All right. All right. I mean, but I don't know. Well, I don't know.
01:50:26
Speaker
I don't want that to be the case. I seriously hate that. And I hope it's not true. But I feel like. Well, streaming is not a sustainable business model either, though. That's the problem. So if streaming goes and theaters go, then movies are dead. And that's not going to happen. No.
01:50:46
Speaker
I think theaters will sustain themselves on new releases, and they found another income source, which is the fact that it's so easy to play movies now, whereas before digital, there was a lot of effort put into putting a movie on the screen, like even as far as like, well, even once it gets to the theater, there's a lot of work that goes into it. Now, since you have digital, you can play anything at any time. And so that's why there's so many re-releases, even if it's just for a day,
01:51:15
Speaker
like you look at at your local theater especially your big chains every week you've got two or three classics that you could go and see a couple times that week just random stuff like like this summer at regal they did all the ghibli movies they i mean they do that every summer but yeah i mean they they do that kind of shit all the time you can watch all the indiana jone all the old ones
01:51:38
Speaker
They've got the the fan of events. They're constantly running like you can watch concerts. You can watch Broadway plays, operas. The movie theater I go to does flashback cinema like they have every week. They have a new old school movie of Dubco soon. Upgoing Escape from New York. I think I think that's what's going to keep theaters alive, I think, is because you've got
01:52:06
Speaker
I think the new releases alone don't, but the fact that they've been supplementing with classic releases, I think it's gonna sustain them for a while. I hope so, man. I love the theatrical experience. I love going to movie theaters. I love everything about it, but yeah, it's become a lot easier to access movies at home.
01:52:31
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean at the same time you can it's much easier to have
01:52:40
Speaker
I know theaters are eclectic now, is what I'm saying. Like I said before, you got new releases, you've got cult classics, you've got regular classics, you've got Broadway plays, you've got concerts. You can do anything in a movie. If you can film it, it's in the movie theater now. I'm sure that they probably, you could probably go watch like a sports game. They probably have that at the movie theater sometimes. The sports are being broadcast in 4K now. You could pop that up on a screen.
01:53:08
Speaker
I'm sure that exists. You can do anything in a movie theater now. I'm just saying, everything being digital, you can do everything in a movie. You can probably fucking play video games in a movie theater if you want to. I know people actually do, not publicly. Yeah, I've heard that. You can rent out theaters to do that, yeah, so it's possible. Yeah. Have you done that before? No, I wish I could have. I would like to at some point. But the other thing also that ruins the theater experience is exactly what we were talking about earlier.
01:53:37
Speaker
After the pandemic, people got so used to sitting in their own home and watching a movie. They sort of forgot how to watch a movie. They're way more vocal and will talk over stuff and don't care about being on their phone or shouting something out. I don't know what happened, but it's kind of annoying nowadays.
01:54:02
Speaker
So I always try to, uh, the, the Regal I normally go to, you pick your seat when you buy your ticket online. And I always try to find either the earliest or the latest showing. And I always check to see if my seat is available and how many people are going to be in there. And, uh, depending on the movie, I, I try to go for the least amount of people in the theater.
01:54:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the move. Yeah, which mostly works. Sometimes it doesn't mean my dad went to go see Iron Claw this past weekend. And how was that? It's really good. I quite enjoyed it. I'll talk about it more whenever we record. Oh, yeah. But yeah, when we bought tickets, we were like the only person in the theater and we got there.
01:54:52
Speaker
There was still not very many people in the theater, but four people decided they were just gonna sit next to us for no discernible reason. And like, what makes you two? Not leaving a seat between, like, elbow to elbow, why the fuck are you sitting? They actively chose to sit next to two other people when the rest of the theater had to have been mostly empty. I didn't get it. I didn't understand. Look, a movie theater seat is equivalent to a urinal. If you can leave a space, you leave a fucking space.
01:55:19
Speaker
yeah absolutely yeah i need to spread out you know buffer seat man unless unless there's no other option
01:55:29
Speaker
You do what you gotta do. Yeah, but there were plenty of other options. No, I've had that happen. In fact, I think one time I went to the theater and was talking to my partner, not super loudly, but just talking about how much I hated it when people like would just get seats right next to two other people on purpose. And the person sitting next to me, I think they moved down like two seats. And I was like, I think they heard me, but they're not sitting next to me anymore. So we're doing okay.
01:55:57
Speaker
I have moved over before because of that actually when I saw this movie at the movie theater which time was I only saw it once at the theater okay I've watched it three times on max
01:56:11
Speaker
Um, but at, at the theater when I saw it, it was theater was probably about 60, 70% full. So you didn't, you didn't have to sit next to anybody in the back row. Uh, there was enough room to where this lady and her kid did not have to sit directly next to me, but they did anyway. And after the previews, I just stood up and got went over to the next seat. So there was a seat between us.
01:56:37
Speaker
I'm not trying to sit next to somebody's nasty kid. Kids are gross, dude. Yeah, they are. They're gross as fuck. I know I've got them. Straight up have the children. I have the children. They're nasty, dude. They're fucking nasty. Mostly because they don't even know no better. No, it's not their fault. I mean, kids are dumb, too. There's a lot of negative things about kids. It's just not their fault. That's why you can't get mad at them.
01:57:03
Speaker
I mean, you can, but you can't make a difference. But that is just my opinion. I will snap a six year old's neck like I'll give a hesitation. Like Superman at the end of Man of Steel. Wow. So cute. Go to sleep, go to sleep. Like Steven Seagal toward the end of one of his movies. Yeah, just like that. Exactly. Just like that.
01:57:34
Speaker
Oh, God. Um, so yeah, this movie, man, like, I don't know, I, I, it felt to me like it was
Critical Analysis of 'The Flash'
01:57:48
Speaker
And I know it wasn't originally intended to kind of be the death knell of the DCEU, but now when I watch it, I can't help but think of it as the death knell of the DCEU because we're going back to like the first movie. And that's like a last movie kind of thing where you go back to the first one.
01:58:06
Speaker
and you like replay the greatest hits. But you know, we bring back Zod, we bring back like the Kryptonian invasion and the world engines. You finally get even though it's kind of a weird way to do it, you actually get an on screen flash origin. You kind of finagle it. But you know, it's not it's not specifically an origin movie, but they work it in there.
01:58:32
Speaker
It's origin-adjacent. Kind of like Zack Snyder works in the Batman origin for the trillionth time in Batman v Superman Dawn of Justice. I love those super cuts. Every time a new Batman comes out, they add another one. Yeah. Love those two. Just watch Bruce Wade's parents die like 12 times.
01:58:50
Speaker
in five minutes. Let's do it. Let's fucking go. And I think that was the that was the impetus for and it may have been dawn of justice was the one we're like, fuck, do we really need to see this guy's parents die again? We get it. We know.
01:59:04
Speaker
Like it's one of the most famous origin stories on the planet. Like we get it. Let's move on. Why do we need to keep rehashing this? Mainly so that Snyder could be the slo-mo with the, with the pearls. That's really why. And every time Bruce Wayne gets bitten by the radioactive bat, like it never gets old, never gets old for me. Just, you know, just a classic superhero origin, really. Yeah, dude. Um, but yeah, I, I don't like, again, I want,
01:59:33
Speaker
Like I'm interested in reading Morrison and Miller's treatment for this movie, because I think the two of them would have been able like Morrison has written the flash both for the flash title and in various crossover events and in Justice League. Like I know they have a good handle on
01:59:53
Speaker
what that character is. And I think that movie would have been more, I think it would have had some Flashpoint elements, but I think it would have been more purely a Flash story, whereas this feels more like a Batman story than a Flash story in a lot of ways. Despite the fact that you do have Ezra Miller pretty much on screen the whole movie,
02:00:19
Speaker
at least one Ezra Miller movie. Yeah, at least one. Another thing despite the things that they have done and and the mental health issues that they need to seek treatment for. I think they act wonderfully against themselves.
02:00:38
Speaker
in this movie. And that I think is where the special effects that's where all the attention for the special effects. I think was really paid because that stuff works really well and looks great. It's the like all the rest of the rubber shit that you get throughout the rest of the movie, like the the the baby shower and the the Kryptonian fight and the fight in Siberia and the the Chronosphere, like all that shit is just rubbery as hell. Yeah.
02:01:07
Speaker
I know, but like I say, I mean, it's it's better than Blade 2 and that's wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow. But again, that Blade 2 is early 2000 CGI. I know. It's supposed to be better than Blade 2.
02:01:25
Speaker
Look, I'm saying I recognize that there's a problem and I acknowledge that, but I like this movie. So, you know, when you like something so much, sometimes you're, you're willing to, to look over some, some obvious red flags. As men, don't we know that?
02:01:46
Speaker
yes we do intimately that's this movie for me like i recognize the issues but i'm having so much fucking fun i just don't care so many plot holes in this movie like like when berry faces to the floor why the first time his clothes don't go with him but every time after that it does just so many things like that in this movie that don't make sense but as soon as i think about him
02:02:10
Speaker
the movie grabs me back and it's like, ah, I don't think about that. Come here. And I'm like, OK, I'll follow. What's going on? Yeah. OK. Yeah. Which is which is very typical of a time travel movie anyway, though. Right. At any point in any time travel movie, think about things too hard at all. It's full of the look over here. Hey, check this out. Like, oh, he gets shot in the knee. But but he doesn't heal right away like he does.
02:02:33
Speaker
literally every other time that he gets injured in any way, because they want the character to be limping. Why? So the movie can happen. And I have expected every fucking time they ask a character in the movie to help them, they're like, no. And then like a minute and a half later, they're like, oh, no, wait, I'm in.
02:02:54
Speaker
And and there's like, we don't see any of their like, interiority, there's no characterization, there's no arc, it's just that, oh, well, I guess the movie has to happen. Okay, well, then I'm and do you remember, remember the big deal they made about him running out of energy by not eating? Yeah, that never gets revisited again in the movie.
02:03:14
Speaker
Well, see, that's what I'm saying. I understand the flaws of this movie, but it's such a good damn time. I just I'm not going to say I don't care. It just doesn't matter enough to me to where it ruins my good time. I'm also not going to lie. I find Ezra Miller's portrayal of Barry really fucking annoying. And then it finds the portrayal of younger Barry even more annoying.
02:03:39
Speaker
I love it. I love it because you're like, oh my God, this guy's insufferable. And then he meets himself who's even more insufferable. And then you, the person you thought was insufferable, you are now on the same side with being like, this guy is wow. No, I'm, I'm like the trade federation guy from Phantom Menace. This is getting out of hand. Now there's two of them. That's what I'm thinking.
02:04:03
Speaker
I like it. I like the juxtaposition between the two. I like the slightly older but still annoying as fuck, Barry. Because I feel like if I were in the same situation...
02:04:14
Speaker
holy shit I would like I'm annoyed with myself most of the time anyway just because I'm so empathetic like I can kind of see it's it's easier for me to sort of see how things I do are viewed uh and so do you understand how we feel okay yes no I get it I get how annoying I am I understand I promise you so like that's what I love about this movie because I know if I went back 10 years I would oh my god
02:04:43
Speaker
Well, it's like that red versus blue sketch about tattoos. They're like, you know, look at a piece of art you did 10 years ago. Is it good? No, because you were a fucking idiot. Now, you're still the same fucking it is. It's going to take you another 10 years to realize how big a fucking idiot you are right now. Absolutely. I've kind of lived my life by that mantra, honestly.
02:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, like no one's know would not have expected a red versus blue reference from you, Steven. I'm impressed. I mean, look, college was a wild time. I had I had friends that like video games. And honestly, I just thought they were really fun. I didn't I didn't understand that they were referencing like Halo, but I just was like, oh, me neither. I still watch that shit anyway. Yeah, it was fun. It was goofy, goofy as hell. Actively disliked Halo, really, honestly, which probably makes sense. But I voted for Nader like, yeah, I love that shit.
02:05:33
Speaker
Good stuff. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Absolutely agree. And the well-crafted characters, fun stories, just goofy, goofy, silly fun. What's not to like? Indicative of hardly 2000s internet. Yeah. So Brett, I feel like you might come somewhere in between Tucker and I on this one. I do. Where do you kind of stand on some of the stuff we've been hitting on?
02:06:02
Speaker
i mean as as it stands i pretty much am right in the middle of the two of you i don't hate it but i certainly don't love it um and i've agreed with pretty much everything both of you have said i really got nothing to say like i'm so middle of the road on this movie that i don't really have any opinions like it's i i loved it when i first saw it just because god damn do i love a good time travel movie just god it's one of my favorite genres um i don't know why it just fascinates me um
02:06:32
Speaker
But I've always looked parallel universes in time travel. Who knew? But yeah, the more I thought about it, and especially watching it this time, it dropped a whole star in terms of rating.
02:06:52
Speaker
But still land solidly in the middle spoilers, but like so I guess what what depreciated for you on this viewing as opposed to your previous one All of it. Uh, like I didn't really I didn't really Got you. I didn't claw. Yeah, nothing specific really except for like maybe like I didn't clock the cgi being really terrible at the time like I mean you
02:07:18
Speaker
I really thought the only bad CGI was at the end. Like you mentioned the other parts of this bad CGI, I guess I didn't really notice them. But I mean, yeah, all the plot holes, like, you know, more so than your normal time travel movie. And just the knowing how inconsequential all of it is, right? None of none of this matters.
02:07:44
Speaker
I was gonna say you're you're big on the whole if it doesn't matter I don't want to watch it kind of like if you know a TV show is gonna get cancelled and I like because I recommended you the tick the Amazon Prime show the tick and you're like It is I watched all the first season right and I was like once I knew it was can I hadn't got to season two yet and I found out it was cancelled and I was like well I guess I'm not gonna finish it right which is a bummer cuz there's some good shit in season two
02:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, there's good shit, but like it has no satisfying ending. So like I'm, I'm not the kind of person and y'all should know this by now. I'm not the kind of person that's just like, that's, that's a really good movie. And like that just in a bubble, like I'm not, I'm not that kind of person. I need more than that. That's a good thing and you should watch it. I need more than that. May I say to you that, um, not every problem has a solution.
02:08:44
Speaker
Sometimes you just have to let it go, Brett. You know, sometimes there's a cliffhanger that never gets resolved, but the journey there was so good, it's worth watching. I can't say I've ever experienced that. Speaking of things that pissed me off about this movie.
02:09:02
Speaker
The whole lesson that he's supposed to learn is to let go, to let go of his mom and to let go of the things that he's attempting to change and control. And yet, at the end of the movie, he can't help himself.
02:09:19
Speaker
but put the tomatoes on the top shelf so that when his father goes in to pick up the tomatoes while his mother is being murdered, he's forced to look up to the top shelf to grab the tomatoes, and thus the security footage absolves him. So he doesn't try to save his mother, but then does go ahead and save
02:09:40
Speaker
his father and free him. Because that truly is inconsequential outside of the one thing that he's doing it for. George Clooney begs to differ, my friend. How many things outside of George Clooney are going to change in this universe because some tomatoes got changed too higher? Oh man, you ever seen the butterfly effect?
02:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, this is this is the point and I like that movie too. So do I. I think it's really good. Ethan, Ethan Suppley and and Aston Kutcher and fucking what's in Aston Kutcher? Yes, but it will be anyway. Hell, yes, dude. But, you know, everybody has their moments and that's Aston Kutcher's moment right there. Butterfly effect for sure. Absolutely is. Yeah. Yeah. The more times you try to change the past, you're just going to fuck it up more. You're going to fuck it up. Yep. Yeah. Can't change past.
02:10:36
Speaker
He should have listened to Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne, Ben Affleck, Bruce Wayne should have taken him up on this offer to get some food because maybe he could have talked to him more and then we wouldn't have had this issue. Honestly, it's Batman's fault. This movie even exists. So if you want to get mad at somebody, get mad at Batman. I would rather get angry with the screenwriter, but that's my prerogative. Batman wrote this script, Steven.
02:11:04
Speaker
movie penned by let me see. Oh, Batman. Interesting. Wait, Bruce Wayne is Batman. What did you think we were doing here? Oddly left out of your 79 pages of history. Right. Cousin's dinner. Cousin's dinner. The the one scene this movie that really that really was affecting for me was the scene where he does say goodbye to his mom. Like that one was that one really hit. Like I was like, if the whole movie could have been this,
02:11:32
Speaker
I would have liked this so much more, but this is not what this movie wanted to be, which bummed me out. I thought that scene worked really well. I really liked both the performances that Ezra Miller and Mira Belvedere were giving.
02:11:48
Speaker
She was great in that whole in the whole movie, man. She is like the sweetest, most wholesome lady. Like there's no way you blame the flash for any any dumb mistake that he makes because that lady is just a ray of fucking sunshine. She is. I would have done all that dumb shit for her too if she was my mom. Right. And I and yeah, motivations completely understandable. Like and again, what? Who wouldn't want to save them? And that's
02:12:16
Speaker
I think another scene that I think could have, should have worked a lot better, the scene with Bruce Wayne and Barry, I just don't think it was really well written, really well executed, but the scene where they're basically talking about, you know, Bruce says, I've been trying my whole life to resurrect my parents, to bring my parents back. You actually did it.
02:12:33
Speaker
Like, just that kind of the commonalities, the things that bring them together, which I think is why Bruce is warning him against it at the beginning. The Ben Affleck Bruce is warning him against it at the beginning is because he's been down this road and he knows there's no way out of it.
02:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, and the means that he has used have been, you know, pretty grounded, whereas Barry's talking about literally changing the fabric of space time. So calm down, Barry. Calm the fuck down.
02:13:05
Speaker
But but that decision at the at the end with the tomatoes, it just felt like it undercut the whole thematic through line of the movie in that he's he's the one telling his alternate darker self, you need to let go. And he can't, he still can't, even though he knows what could potentially happen by not doing it, he just can't help himself. And I think that's, that's in the writing. That's the problem. Like if
02:13:33
Speaker
if it had just been his mom. They're trying to be cute. Well, there's a better ending there. You know, there's a better ending there. You said it yourself that this is not the original ending. Right. Well, we can talk about that here in a second. But yeah, I'd love to know what that original one was and I would love to see it. And I'm sure it was more fitting for what they were going for with the tone. But because it's a lot easier. Like if it was just his mom and he has to let go of his mom dying, that's it.
02:14:01
Speaker
But there's that other little wrinkle of his dad going to jail that you have to resolve that because you've set it up. And if you don't resolve that, it doesn't feel satisfying.
02:14:15
Speaker
Like that, they shot themselves in the foot, wrote themselves into a corner, other metaphor here. Like it's just, you can't, like it needed to be one or the other. You're saying it's a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of situation. Pretty much, yeah. I can definitely see that. Yeah, I just, it doesn't work. I think it undercuts a lot of the thematic,
02:14:40
Speaker
What what does work thematically about this movie? I just think it undercuts all of it. Oh, yeah, I know. I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying they they fucked themselves over by putting that other part that needed to be resolved in a satisfying way for the audience to be happy. Right. Because like, well, any any other storyline where they're like, you've got to let go. It's always the parent died or somebody died. You've got to let them go. That's easy to let go, because when you go back, they're still dead. You've let them go.
02:15:06
Speaker
But now when he goes back, it's like there's his dad in jail and like, okay, I'm going to tell my dad to go fuck himself because of what I didn't like. Well, it's not exactly a surprise. If you're surprised by that decision, then what movie were you watching? It's been happening to characters the entire time.
02:15:21
Speaker
like with Batman when they when they meet Bruce Wayne he's a hermit he's a recluse but he seems to be in good spirits and he's doing all right dude he's essentially over being Batman which means he's over you know his parents being dead I'm not over it but like he's to a place to where he can
02:15:41
Speaker
not dress up like a bat and beat people up because his parents died, you know. And there were really some scenes that were filmed that like talk about go into more detail about what happened after like Batman Returns and his art following that and what led him to that point. But those were all cut from the movie for time and pacing, I'm sure. Well, and the whole arc with Batman, I think sort of foreshadows what happens with Flash. Like, yeah, he is. He's he's letting go and he's he's trying to move forward.
02:16:12
Speaker
But, and that's the whole Batman arc is like, he's done, he's good. But then something comes along to where he's like, well, yeah, I guess I guess I kind of have to do that. And I think with Barry, it's the same thing. He lets go of his mom. It's a really big thing. But also he's got his dad and fucking limbo in his own timeline. And if you can do something small, like does it go against everything that he's learned? Yes, but he's a human being and so are you and I and you know, you do the same fucking thing.
02:16:40
Speaker
I'm just saying. I appreciated that. I didn't dislike it. Don't look up as if you would not make that exact same choice given the situation, Steven. Don't you dare. I don't know. Well, here's the thing. I'm never going to be put in that situation, so it's... Well, no. But I know you well enough to know you would make the same decision. Come on.
02:17:01
Speaker
Um, the Cronus, before I get into the ending, I want to talk Chronosphere. I want to talk those dead-eyed cameos, the Chronosphere, which is located, let me check here, directly in the middle of the uncanny valley. Okay. That makes sense. Um, because everyone there looks like they are coded in a layer of wax. Um, and, and again, I think if that's the CGI that's supposed to look shitty, it makes sense.
02:17:27
Speaker
because that doesn't bother me as much as the reigning babies.
02:17:32
Speaker
Um, the, in addition, it's consistent because I feel like they could have put in real clips from some of those. Yeah. But to maintain consistently, they just animated all of them, I guess. And I'm into that. Nicholas Cage did come back to mode, basically do a mo-cap performance where he didn't really move or say anything. He just did it all in his eyes. He has captured his face, basically. Basically, yeah.
02:17:59
Speaker
But he said they didn't. Everything he shot was not used. Oh, interesting.
02:18:05
Speaker
Yeah, but I don't I don't know that Nicolas Cage really understands the technology. So I don't know if he would be the person to trust the interpretation of what was or was not used because they got a DA gym and all that, too. So you besmirch the good name of Nicholas. No, I trust Nicholas. But we stand a legend. I'm just saying, realistically, it's Nick Cage.
02:18:32
Speaker
In addition to the cameos from Nick Cage, Adam West, Christopher Reeve, Helen Slater, and George Reeves, there were additional cameos planned, which would have featured Marlon Brando's Jor-El.
02:18:44
Speaker
Linda Carter's Wonder Woman. Please. The Burgess Meredith Penguin and Cesar Romero's Joker. Keep going. Don't stop, Steven. I'm close. I got one more. I got one more. Good Lord. And then it was mentioned that Grant Gustin's Barry Allen from the Arrowverse would have also been, was on the shortlist as well. Although Gustin claims that neither he nor his agents were ever approached about appearing in the film,
02:19:11
Speaker
So that may have been just one of those we kind of wanted to but eventually didn't. There's no real word on how far any of those got but Machete basically says the list was long and that sequence could have gone on for...
02:19:28
Speaker
Ever. Days. Yeah. So we'll get that. Particularly if you're referencing every DC thing ever. Like get the Batman from the old serials, the black and white serials. Get that guy in there. Yeah. Let's throw everybody in there. Show all the animated stuff. Fucking Dean Kane and Terry Hatcher. Yes. Fucking please. Smallville, everything to Smallville. Yes. Tom Welling, John Wesley. Just, you know, don't get Allison Mack back. Get Dietrich Bader in there at some point, you know.
02:20:00
Speaker
animated, animated, get the get the, you know, the Bruce Tim animated, all the different versions of the the animated movies, you get Peter Weller in that bitch. Use some some archive, archive sound from Kevin Conroy, some Jensen Ackles. Yeah, get everybody in there, dude.
02:20:20
Speaker
Um, so the ending, let's move on to the ending because we were, that's kind of where we were. And I wanted to pivot back to the Chronosphere. Um, but we're already really long. Oh, you guys is getting really late. I'm tired. Uh, the cinema con ending was just Barry Allen looking, uh, out from the, from the courthouse steps at as the foot of Bruce Wayne steps out of the car. And that's when they smash cut to credits. So the cinema con ending gave nothing away at all. Um,
02:20:49
Speaker
Just complete ambiguity. Exactly. However, Machete filmed footage initially of Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne and Sasha Calle's Supergirl appearing outside the courthouse at the finale. And I think Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman might have been there as well.
02:21:07
Speaker
The implication being that those two are going to replace Affleck and Cavill respectively in the DCEU going forward. That would then have set up a sequel to this movie, which would have been based on the events of the classic 1985 storyline, Crisis on Infinite Earths.
02:21:29
Speaker
And then Keaton also, of course, as we mentioned earlier, was brought on to the ultimately shelved Batgirl movie in his capacity as the elder statesman Batman replacing Affleck.
02:21:43
Speaker
However, after Walter Hamada stepped down and James Gunn and Peter Safran were brought in, that ending was retooled to feature George Clooney's Bruce Wayne instead, which created I think a lot of confusion because I think there were some people who were like, wait, so is Clooney Batman now? Which Clooney cleared up, I think just a couple of weeks ago as of the recording of this episode, when he said that there were not enough drugs in the world to get him to play Batman again.
02:22:13
Speaker
a role he absolutely hated. And look, I've said this before on paper, Clooney should be the best Batman on paper. He is the best. In actuality, that movie was awful. I disagree. He's got too much swagger. No favors. He's got too much swagger, I think.
02:22:35
Speaker
I think I think I think he could have been really good But again, I don't think the script did him not even then not even then would he have been okay? Maybe it would have been a lot of there had to been a lot of miracles happen To make Clooney a good Batman. I think night. I loved fucking love George Clooney Like from from returning the killer tomatoes that far back Clooney fan right here Trisha, but he's not he's not Batman Some people just aren't Batman. He's not Batman
02:23:05
Speaker
I'm Batman. Yeah. Do you believe in Batman?
02:23:14
Speaker
Um, this movie is really, Oh, hold up. Hold up. I got to real quick. Just like Tucker dusted some dust off a little while ago, maybe an hour and a half ago. Um, I don't remember maybe two hours. I lost track of time. Um, what is time anymore? Honestly, honestly. Yeah. It's not linear. According to this movie.
02:23:37
Speaker
Let's roll through it real quick. Um, so the welcome to the video game corner everybody Hey There was there was I like that I like that see what you did there There was actually a flash focused video game that came out in 1993 based on the flash TV series Mmm, it was available for the Sega Master System Ladies and gentlemen and the Game Boy
02:24:05
Speaker
Really weird release there. I don't really know the master system of the Game Boy. Not not the Nintendo Not anything else Real weird and apparently the one on the Game Boy was different and was released in 91. So Who knows
02:24:28
Speaker
Uh, but outside of that the flash has just sort of appeared in random ensemble games He's in marvel or in uh, uh, mk versus dcu and he's in both the injustices, right? Yes, he is also He's also in the lego um games who isn't yeah, well, yeah, he's very various iterations of him. Um, he's in the
02:24:52
Speaker
DC Legends mobile game. Like, Oh, do you remember that fighting game, that Justice League fighting game that came out in the eighties for in the nineties for the Genesis? He was in that, right? Yes, that is Justice League heroes. Fuck, I forgot about that. I rented that from blockbuster and I was like, yeah, I'm not spending any money on this. Yeah, they came out 2006 for the Xbox and PS2.
02:25:13
Speaker
I'm thinking, no, there was something for Genesis. I played a Justice League fighting game on the Genesis. That's the RPG that is pretty much just the DC version of Marvel Ultimate Alliance. The Justice League task force is the one you're thinking of for Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis. Yeah. I think that I rented it, and I just didn't even play it for the three or four days I had it after I played it once, and I was like, this is fucking garbage. I'm going to play Sonic 2.
02:25:43
Speaker
And that was the rest of my weekend. That seems to be the general consensus on that one. Poor controls, ugly animation, and generic presentation is what killed that one, apparently. Yeah, but that's pretty much it. Oh, and it was the Infinite Crisis game that the Flash was in, which was the MOBA, which I don't even remember the MOBA.
02:26:08
Speaker
But yeah, that's it. That's all carry on. Let's hear about the box office,
Box Office Performance and Industry Impact
02:26:11
Speaker
shall we? The box office film comes out June 16th, 2023. It opens at number one to a rather disappointing $55 million.
02:26:25
Speaker
Um, only because of its budget. I was going to say it's a budget because that's a pretty good weekend. The budget unless your budget is $300 million is 200. The reported budget is 200 million. It was probably more than that. All based on what I heard after marketing and everything else has factored in. Um, the.
02:26:50
Speaker
the final tally, the studio would have probably had to gross 400 million on this thing to break even. And they did not do that. This movie makes just under, or just over 100 million domestic
02:27:08
Speaker
another 158 million internationally for a total of just shy of 270 million worldwide. So it doesn't quite get halfway there or just just gets half. It just gets a little over halfway there. It's so weird that a movie can make that much money and be a bomb. And like I get it, I understand why that is, but it's just so so wild. Movies cost too much. I know. I know.
02:27:38
Speaker
That one of the many problems with the state of the industry, I mean, we've kind of waxed eloquent about it for on and off for most of this episode, but like, like one of the many problems is that just movies just cost you fucking much to make. And they, they, the only reason is because we're just putting all sorts of spectacle and other bullshit on the screen instead of, you know, telling a good story. So.
02:28:03
Speaker
But this film opens at number one and number two is the Disney Pixar release from this past year, Elemental, which I heard was also not good. I saw the trailer a hundred times and it's just like how how lazy are you Pixar at this point?
02:28:21
Speaker
From my understanding, it was like it was Zootopia, but with elements, basically, is what there is. It's a metaphor for racism and we're not going to be subtle about it. Yeah, no shit. Like, you know, Pixar used to be clever, man. What happened, dude?
02:28:39
Speaker
Honestly, as much as it hurts me to say this, Lasseter left. And for all his problems with hugging people who don't want to be hugged, he understood the story.
02:28:54
Speaker
So I think that has a lot to do with it. In third place, down from number two the week before in its third week is Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse, one of my favorite films of this past year for sure.
02:29:09
Speaker
uh in fourth place in its second weekend down from number one the previous week transformers rise of the beasts what if the beasts were rising um when are we going to get to rock lords guys when's that going to drop dude don't as formers rock lords don't even put that fucking out in the ether man we we're going to do like a multiverse transformers versus go bots
02:29:33
Speaker
Transformers versus the McDonald's Transformers toys, where it's like fries and a burger and shit. I want fries and a burger and shit. I'm going to go make a burger after this, but joking aside, honestly, I'd love to see the crossover in the comics with Transformers, Ghostbusters, and Ninja Turtles. I mean, they're getting ready to do, if the ending of Rise of the Beast is any indication, they're getting ready to do a Transformers GI Joe crossover on the big screen.
02:30:04
Speaker
Sounds like more than meets the eye. That is one of the live action. That's all. He's really cool. He's really cool in the comics. I love him. He's my favorite.
02:30:18
Speaker
Yeah, hard to tell why that one would be your favorite, Brett. I have no idea why. In fifth place, The Little Mermaid, which in its four weeks has grossed over $250 million. Didn't see it, don't care. In sixth place, also opening this week of The Blackening.
02:30:40
Speaker
Which is has made just about six million little Lionsgate horror movie Rounding out the rest of the top ten in seventh place. You've got Guardians volume three the boogeyman in eighth fast X in ninth and opening this week at ten is Wes Anderson's asteroid city. I saw that I saw that the theater which earned eight hundred and fifty three thousand dollars on six screens
02:31:11
Speaker
You know, it's so weird, his career trajectory right now. He makes the best movie that he's made since Rushmore and then immediately releases the worst thing I've ever seen on Netflix. How do you do that, Wes Anderson? How do you fucking do that? He's talented. We're playing with my emotions, man. We're fucking playing with my emotions. Like, I think you're back, right? I think you're back. And then what the fuck?
02:31:41
Speaker
So Flash opens at number one, it's second weekend, it drops to three, and then the fourth weekend it's down, or third weekend it's down to eighth.
02:31:52
Speaker
And then in its fourth weekend, it's down to 11. And from there, it kind of just keeps dropping. I don't think it remains in theaters for very long. 13th of the week after that, it just kind of keeps falling. So word of mouth did not help that one. People did not get out to see it.
02:32:13
Speaker
I think honestly, word of mouth heard it because I think the voices that were against it were a lot louder than the people were having a good time with it because the people who were having a good time with it weren't the kind of people who were going to go like talk shit about a movie somewhere, you know? Right. Yeah, that's normal anymore. Particularly the most vocal minority.
02:32:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the review bombing with video games and stuff. It's very similar to that. Like I was going to say the marbles, I think, had a had a similar reception this year to like just a lot of bad faith actors talking about the things they but they weren't going to like it anyway. Nobody has fucking integrity anymore. It comes to that shit, man. We're all we're trying to come on, man. Let's work together and figure out how good movies are. And if you're going to like it or not, like stop being an asshole.
02:33:09
Speaker
Uh, the tone of tarnish taken wine man. Like an asshole.
02:33:15
Speaker
The Tomatometer score is a 63%. The Critic's Consensus, The Flash, is funny, fast, fittingly fast-paced, and overall ranks as one of the best DC movies in recent years. The Metascore is a 55, based on mixed or average reviews from 55 critics. And the Letterbox score is a 2.7. Brett, out of five stars, how are you gonna rank 2023's The Flash?
02:33:46
Speaker
I'm gonna give it a 2.5. 2.5 from Brett Tucker. What about yourself? That's a four with a bullet. Four with a bullet. Whereas that's a two for me, dog. That's still fair. Like, I understand where you're coming from, for sure. But yeah, it just is fair. Yeah. Not for me, though. But yeah, I'm glad you like it, Tucker. I am.
02:34:16
Speaker
Well, I'm glad that even though you didn't like it, like a two is, that's almost average. So you didn't like it, but it's a two and I like that. I like that. That feels good to me. I mean, there are things in there that do work for me. Like I like the, um,
02:34:37
Speaker
I like that scene at the end, I think is really well done. With the exception of the reigning babies, I like most of the stuff in the beginning. That Batman shit at the beginning is fantastic. I actually didn't mind the lasso of truth joke. I thought that was funny too. I thought that was pretty funny.
02:34:58
Speaker
I look really like, this isn't Bruce Wayne. And I'm like, get off your high horse. That's funny. I liked the sandwich. I love how he had missed like, if he just like donated his money to help the poor.
02:35:13
Speaker
Wow The way Ben Affleck delivers it at like his face where he's like Yeah It's kind of his coming to Jesus moment and him stuffing it down. Yeah I'm too proud to ever admit that to ever thank anyone for helping me like all that shit is
02:35:35
Speaker
I have childhood trauma too. Like, oh, that shit is great. Yeah. And again, her cameo feels very fun, but like the stuff that happens as a result of her being there, I think works really well.
Podcast Announcements and Conclusion
02:35:53
Speaker
Um, but yeah, that is our episode on 2023 is the flash. Uh, we're going to take next week off. We've had a year and we've earned it. So we're going to take next week off, but we're going to come back with a mini series slash theme month.
02:36:08
Speaker
for the rest of January, so keep your eyes peeled for that. Obviously, all of our patrons will get access to the slate at the beginning of the month, so here in just a few days.
02:36:24
Speaker
And patrons, watch out for a very special unenfranchised this month. One I've been looking forward to for a long, long time. One that has been uncharacteristically moved forward many times, no matter how annoying and insistent I am about it. But it's happening. This is the wheel he's been squeaking the longest, honestly. OK, it's happening. So go to the Patreon, become a patron.
02:36:52
Speaker
and find out what that is because I assure you if you announce it to lock it in that way we can't no no no no no no no no it's it's locked in it's locked in all right if you are a white male of a certain age these are your people for good or for ill and I can't wait to talk about those people with with all of our patrons
02:37:18
Speaker
Speaking of which, you can join our patreon at patreon.com slash disenfranch pod for five bucks a month. You, yes, you can become a patron, get early access to our entire slate of movies and early access to know if we have guests coming or not and know who they are. And you also get bonus shows like Unenfranchised, Disenfranchised, Upsal Video Game Corner, Upsal Christianity Corner, and so many more. Just five bucks, patreon.com slash disenfranch.
02:37:46
Speaker
You can shoot us an email at thisinfranchpodatgmail.com. Let us know how we're doing or what failed franchise starters you want to see us cover. We got an email from a good friend of the show and patron, Norvin, he's requesting an episode. We got to put it on the schedule for next year, guys. What is it? You have access to the email. You know.
02:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, but I've been busy. Can you, can you tell it to me in ASL? Uh, I'll just type it in the, type it in the chat. Okay. I think you're gonna, I think you're gonna like this one. So yeah, there you go.
02:38:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, we were going to do it anyway. So just like push it forward on the schedule for sure. Yeah. That'll go well with the cemetery man episode. That'll be a good double feature for people who want to go back and listen to that. Norvin and I chat periodically on Instagram. So yes, he did tell me about that head of time. So yeah.
02:38:43
Speaker
So, yeah, he threw that one to us in the in the in the email, but but we do read that. Well, some of us read that and we may not always respond, but we are taking that under advisement. So may I say that I've never read the source material of this particular thing, but whenever I see it, I think of the song from Almost Fabious that Stillwater does. Deeba-doo! No, was it?
02:39:07
Speaker
Kind of dog is it? I don't know. I've seen almost famous fever fever dog. Peter Frampton wrote that song, wrote all the songs in that movie. Yeah. Great. Right on. Cool. Hey, somebody finds this interesting. So both me and that person are like what I would find it interesting if it wasn't two a.m. Fever down.
02:39:38
Speaker
This is when Tucker's annoying, just kind of ratchets. I think it gets worse as he gets later.
02:39:47
Speaker
he's he's unhinged um but yes a lack of illegal substances or legal substances depending on where you are illegal for him legal for me um yeah dude my mania has taken over because there's nothing to calm me yeah we can tell um look if you let me end this then you can have all the substances you want that would never leave my guests i've got shit to do first you can hit us up
02:40:11
Speaker
My tuck muck's bit is going to be 30 minutes long. So get ready for that. Okay. Brett and I are going to unplug and just wander off and you're going to end this whole fucking show by yourself. I'm out. We, uh, you, oh God, I don't even know where the fuck I am right now. Um, you can shoot us an email, uh, rate us and review us on Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, five stars and a review, please. And thank you helps us.
02:40:36
Speaker
with the algorithms and whatnots. And then you can find us on most forms of social media, specifically Blue Sky, Instagram, Facebook, and Letterboxed at Disinfranch Pod. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy. You can find me on Instagram, Letterboxd, and
02:40:57
Speaker
blue sky at chili walrus also make sure you check out the most recent episode of the pod in the pendulum where mike and i and uh rachel talk about a little movie called a muppet christmas carol and i get to just throw up my love for muppets all over that show like i did on our show last july uh brett where can we find you on social media these days
02:41:23
Speaker
You can find me on Instagram a letterbox that says underscore one lock and then you can find me on blue ski says warlock without the underscore Tucker As always you can find me on the youtubes and instagrams at Ice 909 that's I see and I in e the number zero and the number nine Tuck mugs is still a thing. That's tuck underscore mugs on Instagram and
02:41:54
Speaker
I got two upcoming posts, I got one in the chamber and one in the clip, and they're both guest posts, you guys. I wanna announce this right now, you motherf- even you motherfuckers don't know about this, okay?
02:42:06
Speaker
All right. We've got a, well, the first one's more of a collab post between myself and my sister. I've been drinking out of her mugs while I've been here in Indianapolis and I found a very interesting one that I wanted to include in tuck mugs. So I took a photo of it and she did some research on it. You'll see what I mean when you see the post, but she did some research on it. And I think we've got a very interesting post to put out there. I just have to
02:42:31
Speaker
put together her research in a digestible way that fits the format. Hopefully the next couple days. If not, when I get home, I'll work on it. And then I got another one that Jimmy did the same thing because Jimmy comes home for Christmas too, which is a great thing about coming home for Christmas. I get to see Jimmy. We get to hang out. We've hung out like three times so far.
02:42:53
Speaker
But he sent me a photo of a mug of his mother's that is very interesting, and we're going to include that as well. So I would say in the next two to three weeks, both of those will be dropping, if not sooner. So I'm pretty excited that I kind of have a backlog right now to just kind of pop in once I get the chance to kind of flesh them out and put them up.
02:43:17
Speaker
It's a really exciting time to be a follower of Tuckmugs. So head on over to Instagram and look up Tuck underscore mugs. Make sure to follow and like every post. And look forward to those guest mugs, collab mugs. Brett Steven, you guys, if you want to put some in the queue. I'm sure you've got some mugs. Holler, Chip Boy. And
02:43:47
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's it. Good job, you guys. We we fucking fucking guys, guys. Hey, you guys, guys, you guys. Hey, you guys. Fucking we did it, you guys. Oh, yeah, we did. So that is our episode. This has been the disenfranchised podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Foxworthy, from my co-hosts, Brett Wright and Tucker. Until next time, Dan, Nananana. Look, it's Wonder Woman. Another Wonder Woman cameo.
02:44:17
Speaker
in this podcast in our own podcast. It's like this economy. Look, you get you get that music and you get Gal Gadot who even like just like some of the people in this movie, even with a shitty script like she's fun as hell. So like, give me more Wonder Woman cameos, even if they suck. Goodbye, everyone. Cheers.
02:44:45
Speaker
Oh.