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ENT: "Carbon Creek" (s2e2) with Jamie, Bill, and Maria from Enterprisesplaining
159 Plays13 days ago
A GOOD STORY? That's not something Bryan and his trio of guest co-hosts expected from Star Trek: Enterprise here during Inner Lights month. Jamie, Bill, and Maria have their own show where they explain episodes of Enterprise to one another, and for "Carbon Creek," they're doing a bit of a swap with Trek Marry Kill -- look for Bryan to appear on their show in April.
You can listen to Enterprisesplaining here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/enterprisesplaining/id1733657074
The grades for this one begin at (39:47).
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek, Mary, Kill. Vulcans. Earth. Velcro. Energize. Did beings from another world visit Earth? We'll need to disguise ourselves. What is it?
00:00:13
Speaker
I believe you have that garment on backwards. The Star Trek story that rewrites history as you know it. I Love Lucy is on tonight. An all-new episode of Enterprise next Wednesday at 8, 7 Central on UPN.
00:00:29
Speaker
Mary Kill.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Jamie. Hello, I'm Bill. Hi, I'm Maria.
Introduction of Hosts and Guests
00:00:40
Speaker
Welcome to Trek, Mary Kill, a podcast where we judge episodes of Star Trek like a trio of Vulcans stranded on Earth.
00:00:46
Speaker
Our theme here in February is Inner Lights, episodes that put our captains in a new identity, which shows us a side of them we'd never see otherwise. Except this week, we're doing an episode that does not quite... Yeah.
00:00:58
Speaker
and i'll explain that in a second but before i do i'm pleased to welcome a trio of guests co-hosts this week jamie bill and maria are the hosts of enterprise splaining ah star trek podcast that only explains episodes of star trek enterprise no other star trek and they do it in a unique way where one of them will watch and then explain it to everybody else enterprise planning crew welcome Wait, there there are other series of Star Trek other than Enterprise?
00:01:26
Speaker
Several. Wait, I'm so cool off of this series? Wow, I'm really curious to see where the show goes from here. ah they any good? Technically, Enterprise is the first Star Trek. That's true. It predates all others, but yes. What is the machete order for Star Trek?
00:01:47
Speaker
um a Great question. I don't want to think about it because at the enterprise it's automatically Enterprise, Star Trek 09, Discovery, Strange New Worlds. yeah.
00:02:01
Speaker
I'm sure somewhere there's a master list. If you wanted to watch all of Star Trek in chronological order, like you would have to start with like them going back to San Francisco in 1909. Yeah. And I'm sure there's guides where they put the timeline of Star Trek where they visited.
00:02:17
Speaker
So the episode of... um ah the one where the Q wants to die, ah Death Wish. That's technically the first episode, the earliest, because they get sent back to the Big Bang.
00:02:30
Speaker
so then Oh, yeah. It was done that timeline. And it would be the finale of Next Gen where they go back to the creation of life on Earth.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yes, that's right. That would be shortly after. That would be the next episode, yes. That's a terrible idea. I apologize for bringing that up. Well, let's start with you, though, Bill. How did you get into Star Trek?
00:02:54
Speaker
I never remember a time when Star Trek was not part of my life. I'm an old white guy. Original series was in reruns when I was a child. I have always been watching Star Trek repeats on WUAB out of ah Parma in Cleveland.
00:03:13
Speaker
um But yeah, no, it's just it's always it's always, always, always been around. I don't have a first experience of watching Star Trek. And then Next Generation came along. Jamie, how about you?
00:03:24
Speaker
um I have actually... so I'm kind of the opposite. I'm the newest person to Trek on this show right now. And so a decade ago, i was actually on an NPR podcast asking how to watch Star Trek.
00:03:41
Speaker
And they brought on...
00:03:44
Speaker
Jonathan Frakes. Thank you. see I was about to say the guy who sits on chairs funny on TNG. Yes, Jonathan Frakes. They brought on Jonathan Frakes to give me advice.
00:03:56
Speaker
He gave me what at the time I recognized was probably bad advice, but I took it anyway. It was absurd at the beginning. So I started at the beginning, at the beginning, beginning of original series. I made it a handful of episodes to Mudd's Women.
00:04:12
Speaker
And then I was like, you know what? Star Trek is not for me. and I stopped watching for many, many years ah until the pandemic. And then my spouse wanted to watch Next Generation. we started watching that and the rest is kind of history.
00:04:27
Speaker
Wow. good Good job, Freaks, just winging it. so
00:04:32
Speaker
Maria, how about you? um I got into Star Trek in college. So I didn't grow up in the States. um So I was vaguely aware of Star Trek, but not really, ah didn't really watch it because then you really have any opportunity to watch it. But when I came to the States for college, ah that was right when Next Generation um was on. I think it was in reruns at that point, um or there were reruns. All I remember is that it was on at 6 p.m. every day,
00:05:02
Speaker
in syndication and I was the worst freshman college student because all of my friends would get so mad at me because I'd be like, sorry, gotta go home, watch Star Trek. um I was immediately hooked and have watched almost everything since then with the exception of Enterprise.
00:05:22
Speaker
um I did start watching Enterprise and was did not enjoy it at all. ah and it it i've tried I had tried a couple of times to get into it and just just didn't make it until we ah realized that, which actually during the pandemic, when Jamie was was doing her first watch of um of Next Generation, and we would just sort of hear, would you know hear little clips of what it was like from her perspective to watch it. And then we'd sort of tell her stories about, oh, this episode and you should see about Enterprise. And it was so much fun telling telling her and hearing her reaction to things that actually happened in different episodes. that But crucially...
00:06:05
Speaker
Crucially, we would only tell Jamie the craziest things that happened in Star Trek. Oh, you're not going to believe this happens. You guys would ask me what episodes I watch. And if you didn't remember, you'd ask me what happened in them. And I would explain to you what happened in them. And that's kind of how...
00:06:22
Speaker
Our podcast Enterprise Splaining came to be when we were talking about watching Enterprise because none of us had seen it. Bill was like, well, it'd be a lot more fun if Jamie just explained it to us like she told us about all the Next Gen ah episodes.
00:06:36
Speaker
So, yeah, that's how we came up. Fantastic. That was going to be my next question, how the podcast came about. Now now I know. Just friendship, sounds like. but Masochism.
00:06:48
Speaker
I was very happy to be a guest on your show. Thank you ah for inviting me on Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks. It'll be coming out months from now. Mid-April. mid-april What we're discussing this week is Carbon Creek. It's the second episode of Enterprise's second season. That's right. It was still called just Enterprise at this point. It wouldn't become Star Trek Enterprise until season three. It premiered on September 25th, 2002. Teleplay by Chris Black from a story by Rick Berman, Brandon Braga, and Dan O'Shannon, directed by James Kontner.
00:07:20
Speaker
Memory Alpha describes it. T'Pol tells Archer and Tucker a story about her great-grandmother, and two other Vulcans who crash land in a small Pennsylvania new town in the year 1957. nineteen fifty seven What Memory Alpha doesn't tell us is that the story is being told on the anniversary of her first year aboard Enterprise.
00:07:39
Speaker
And to give a little bit more detail, there are three Vulcans. There's her great-grandmother, Tamir. There is then Mestral, who becomes the focal point of the story of the conflict. And then another Vulcan named Strawn.
00:07:55
Speaker
who in our episode, we didn't know that when we recorded the podcast, which is great. They don't say his name. they do not. That's correct. They don't say his name in the episode at all.
00:08:07
Speaker
And so they ah are just but basically trying to blend into this mining town. the The woman who runs the bar, her son is, you know, he likes to read. He's very smart. He's ah out trying to get a scholarship, try to leave the mining town, but they don't have enough money.
00:08:22
Speaker
And the Vulcans are doing odd jobs here and there. ah There's a mine rescue. And then there's this question for most of the episode of, is T'Pol bullshitting Archer and Trip who are,
00:08:37
Speaker
incredulous. they do they They do not believe that the real first contact on Earth occurred in a Pennsylvania mining town 100 years before Bozeman, Montana in the events of Star Trek First Contact.
00:08:49
Speaker
And to to Paul slash Jolene Blalock's credit, She plays that shit like, maybe I am fucking with you. Maybe I am. Because you two are a couple of assholes and deserve it. The idea that the two men didn't know what actually happened. They're getting some alternate. How confounding this is for them.
00:09:12
Speaker
They were so shocked. but They just kept trying to explain to her, no, no you're wrong. it's not out but So I had never seen this episode before, but I kind of knew about it or I knew there was a story that something about T'Pol and her pastor, her family or something. And it was maybe about Earth and like because I do skim these memory alpha pages quite a lot.
00:09:40
Speaker
And so the reason that's why I picked it for inner light, because I was like, when you were describing the story, Maria, I'm like, is this this seems like a completely perfect episode because it's about T'Pol. But I thought T'Pol was like pretending that she was her great girl anyway.
00:09:56
Speaker
But I actually think at the end of this, this actually fit very well. I got pretty lucky. that This fits the theme of, of inner life because it's, uh, Mastral, the, the, the guy who wants to stay behind. There's a Vulcan that stays behind on earth and apparently lives another 100, 150 years.
00:10:11
Speaker
Uh, but apparently what her great grandmother passed down to her was the idea of compassion was, was this human compulsion for compassion, this spiritual, this kind of, emotional thing. And so this episode works pretty well to explain how she's been able to stay on a human ship for Yeah.
00:10:30
Speaker
No, I mean, that that's funny, but I mean, like, like it in terms of like, what is it about T'Pol that lets her, especially because the episodes establishes right away that no Vulcan has served with humans for longer than 10 days.
00:10:43
Speaker
Like, how does she make it 365? And I would say that this is part of her heritage in some way of like understanding, ah be be a little more curious about people around you, maybe especially humans.
00:10:54
Speaker
And I appreciate that. So I, hey, I got, we got lucky that this all fits the theme month. So yeah. um I'm going to have correct you here, Brian. What her a second foremother passed down to her was in fact a pocketbook.
00:11:08
Speaker
And that's what allows her to deal with these humans. Within that purse is capitalism. Within that capitalism is convention. Intellectual property theft.
00:11:20
Speaker
I think that's actually a really ah good point, Brian. I would not have thought of it, but you're right. Because one of the things we talk about a lot on Enterprise Splating is how the hell does T'Pol put up with this bullshit? Like she puts up with so much and- She has she's very sort of for Vulcan. She's extremely emotionally aware, like she gets it when like she knows how to.
00:11:43
Speaker
How to behave when the when the boys are being stupid, like she knows how to talk to them, she's smart about it. Yeah. And up to this point, every time there's other Vulcans on the show, they will comment about how she seems very human like to them. ah And so this kind of explains a lot of that.
00:12:03
Speaker
which this is what makes it unique among the inner light ones, because all the other stories are basically something dramatic happens that causes a schism. And the captain is usually a completely different person. That's actually happening here too, right? So Paul is telling the story and it's played by the same actor, but...
00:12:22
Speaker
I think when it's your family, there is this idea of the things that get passed along. There's some part of her grandmother in her that's different. It's a little bit different, but at the same time, um it's not. It's basically a different life, different, because Tamir has to kind of be brought around to this idea at the same time. But, you know, living among humans for what, six months, basically, ah that they that they really get the sense of what it's like to be among them. It was important deal.
00:12:51
Speaker
the fact and I and also think that like It's her great-grandmother. So that's quite a large gap, but clearly that did get passed down. And i mean, she still has the purse on the ship with her. So it's like a ah treasured item for her. So her great-grandmother, in whatever way, clearly had an influence on her in that way. So it all makes a lot of sense, which is which which is rare for Enterprise. yeah Well, I'm sure we're we're all going to have a lot more to say about that as this goes on. Yeah.
00:13:24
Speaker
I've been watching this episode and I think this is a really good episode of enterprise, but in my head, I'm just churning over the dice. This could be a great episode of star Trek in general. And I just keep thinking of changes that could have been made and in the storytelling. Like,
00:13:40
Speaker
yeah we If we saw Tamir like keeping a journal and then that's the thing that T'Pol has at the end and she's rereading what her yeah grandmother ah thought of this. But no, I enjoyed this episode tremendously.
00:13:53
Speaker
I think crucially to the point of this being a good episode about T'Pol's evolution is for the most part – Archer and Trip are not in it. And they are passive listeners to occasionally challenging her.
00:14:07
Speaker
When we did our episode, we kicked around the idea that it would be maybe a fun idea if Connor Trenier and um Scott Bakula were playing the other two Vulcans. Yes. Which I thought was fun. But no, I think i Jolene Blaylock is not my MVP of this episode. we We'll get to that. But no, I enjoyed this episode tremendously. The thing that made this episode good was that Malcolm was not in it.
00:14:32
Speaker
um Shots fired!
00:14:36
Speaker
I'm on board. i my just no i'm just My dislike of Malcolm is well stated. didn We haven't done many Enterprise episodes on Trek, Marry, Kill, but every time Kristen and I have registered, that guy sucks.
00:14:50
Speaker
We just gotta let a moment pass. Poor Malcolm. I feel so bad for the actor. I believe our show had one episode as well, which that I had two guests from trekmovie.com and they were like, oh someone's actually just going to come out and say it because that episode is just trip and read. And I'm like, this is tough because half the people that this episode is about, I don't like.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I know that you guys, you all don't like Trip that much either. Trip? I love Trip. No, Trip is growing on me for sure. No, trip Trip is our sweet baby boy. He's our himbo. Labrador retriever.
00:15:29
Speaker
Your problematic phase, yes. he's He's not... He's only problematic when he's with Malcolm, man. He's not... ah Trip is not a great character, but he's a great...
00:15:43
Speaker
perform like I'm always happy to see him, man. He shows up like, I know what I'm getting. Gimme, gimme, gimme. ah Some memory alpha notes before we get to the grades here. The episode's working title was Population 612.
00:15:56
Speaker
Good change. Yeah, that's awful. good This is the 14th consecutive episode to carry either a teleplay or story credit for Rick Berman and Brandon Braga, ending a run that began with Shadows of Pajim the previous season. This remains a record for most consecutive Trek episodes credited in some way to the same writers.
00:16:16
Speaker
That holds to this day. I think Prodigy... gets a little close in terms of like how close together certain writing credits are. But yeah, no one's gone on the run like this. What a legacy.
00:16:27
Speaker
If they'd hired writers who were experienced with writing Star Trek shows, they wouldn't have had to write all the episodes themselves. This is a problem built of their own success. You're absolutely right, Jamie. It was also the case, though, that Berman and Braga were so set in their ways that they couldn't expand the scope of that.
00:16:47
Speaker
They couldn't also have the bandwidth to teach books. The people to like Brandon Braga was a benefactor of Michael Piller being willing to teach people how to write Star Trek.
00:16:59
Speaker
And by the time he's running enterprise, he's also, he was burnt out after Voyager, but now he's like being shoved into another show. He had even less time to do, to take people under the wings.
00:17:11
Speaker
They ran through so many writers in that first season, as I'm sure you've done all the research for, but yeah, here we go Showing up here. um An interesting oh note to go out on, though, right?
00:17:22
Speaker
so <unk>s Definitely a high note to go out on. ah
Filming Location: Carbon Creek
00:17:28
Speaker
This is the first episode of the series where Reed, Mayweather, and Sato don't appear.
00:17:33
Speaker
Crestline, California, a.k.a. the Lake Arrowhead area in California, stood in for Carbon Creek. Once I read that and then went back and rewatched it, like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I've been there. Yeah. Yeah, I went there a lot as a kid. The air is so fresh.
00:17:46
Speaker
It's so nice. It is beautiful there. The song playing as Tamir and Mestral first enter the Pine Tree Bar and Grill was Crazy Arms. That was in the original broadcast airing. For the Blu-ray and international versions of the episode, the song was replaced with Gently Falls by Dave Colvin, a song released in 2009. Sorry.
00:18:04
Speaker
so his work and acronys said there ah in reality velcro was invented by george de mistral this is where the character of mistral got his name also demonstrals velcro patent was granted in 1955 two years before sputnik and the events depicted in this episode i guess it was still ah early enough for google and wikipedia that they weren't don't know but also brandon braga taking no notes from anybody at any time They're probably like, here's the research. don't have time for that. They could just said it two years earlier.
00:18:38
Speaker
That is the only logical flaw you will ever find in Enterprise is that Velcro was actually invented two years before this episode. That would have been funny if Archer clapped back with Velcro. Now I have you. Actually.
00:18:54
Speaker
ah They are also so kind as to list all memory. Alpha. I mean, it's so kind to list to all the times extraterrestrials had visited earth prior to first contact.
00:19:05
Speaker
I will not go through all of them, but I will go through a significant chunk of them real fast. TOS who mourns for Adonis Plato's stepchildren. That's when aliens come to earth and then they're like, shit's getting too real. Let's leave this planet. And then they take off.
00:19:19
Speaker
ah The animated series, How Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth, and Voyager Tattoo, which established that the Greek gods, Plutonians, and Kukulkin, and the Sky Spirits, respectively, were all aliens. So, again, ancient alien theories.
00:19:34
Speaker
ah Quinn, the member of the Q Continuum i mentioned from the episode Death Wish, he visited Earth in the 17th, 19th, and 20th centuries. Guinan, of course, plus the two Davidian time travelers, who caused all those problems in Time Zero.
00:19:49
Speaker
That's the two-parter where Data's head gets blown off they find it in the cavern. And then Quark, Rom, and Nog from Deep Space Nine, they became the Roswell aliens in Deep Space Nine's Little Green Men. And one last note about Guinan and the time traveling and Vulcans being on Earth.
00:20:05
Speaker
Star Trek Picard season two, which we've killed every episode of, but basically Guinan and Picard get arrested and the detective who's talking to them had an experience as a child when he encountered Vulcans who were on earth for some reason, and they couldn't mind melt him in time to erase the memory.
00:20:21
Speaker
So he remembers it and it all this time he's, he's like, aliens have been among us and hit he's right, but who cares? Anyway, 50th, I'm not as well versed as in DS9 as some people. um You're lost. Do they get into a huge hissy fight with the Bajorans about, no, your gods are actually aliens. Trust us.
00:20:43
Speaker
We've had aliens on our planet who have pretended to be gods. These guys are clearly aliens. Your Bible is a lie. It's not. No, it's not like that. It's it's more that because Sisko is put in this position as the emissary to the prophets. Oh, sure. So what's a start it's basically Sisko is like, I'm going to respect their culture. But anytime he's alone with the Starfleet person, they're like, the the prophets, you know, wink, wink, whatever, yanking. And Cardassians are the same way. And that's kind of how they handle it.
00:21:14
Speaker
I do not – I have to – I guess I don't recall a scene in DS9 where a giant green hand reaches out and grabs Space and Nine and it's demanding tribute from the Bajorans. So that's probably – For the best.
00:21:29
Speaker
No, we get something better. They pose as old-timey baseball players and Cisco has to explain baseball to them. and it's It's amazing. It's of my favorite scenes ever. I'm a big baseball person. Anyway, um let's see.
00:21:42
Speaker
The $50 bill seen in the bar's donation jar is the one featured on the redesign that happened in 1997. job, everybody. good job everybody ah This episode was nominated for a Hugo Award for Best Traumatic Presentation short form.
00:21:54
Speaker
It lost, of course, but I'm going to give you all the nominees in the category, and then you all can guess which one. Okay, so Carbon Creek, Enterprise. i can't I can't fucking believe this.
00:22:06
Speaker
A Night in Sip-A from Enterprise. We haven't seen that one yet. We haven't gotten to that yet. Yeah, haven't seen it. No spoilers. Conversations with Dead People from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
00:22:17
Speaker
Waiting in the Wings from Angel. I believe that's the episode that gave us Summer Glau. Like she was in that episode and then Joss Whedon got all creepy and then that's when suddenly Summer Glau was and in, remarkably, Serenity Firefly.
00:22:31
Speaker
The pilot of Firefly. So ah who wants to guess first? Maria, why don't you guess first? This takes me back a time just in general. I'm like, I know exactly where I went We all know what those are.
00:22:47
Speaker
Oh, you're going to look at that. That's cheating. Sorry. I can't get her keyboard right now. I don't think she's... I just want to see which episode. I'm trying to remember the the Buffy episode. what What happens? Conversations with Dead People is the one where they couldn't get Tara back. So they they cast the girl who died earlier in the season. And it's basically everyone talking to dead people.
00:23:05
Speaker
Buffy's talking a vampire who winds up playing the creepy tech in Angel. Yeah. i think go I'm going to guess that one. I'm going guess the Buffy one was the one that won.
00:23:18
Speaker
Okay. ah Jamie. I'm going to go with Serenity. I actually don't remember most. i definitely know I watched all these. I don't remember most them, but ah I just remember. An interesting note about Serenity was that it's the pilot and Fox hated it so much. It was not the first episode.
00:23:37
Speaker
All right, Bill, what do you have? ah My guess is that it was a surprise write-in vote for the finale of Space Above and Beyond. Holy crap. It's acting several years earlier, almost maybe ah seven years earlier.
00:23:53
Speaker
Bill's correct. No, it was Conversations with Dead People. So congratulations, Maria Maria. Yes. That was peak Buffy time, though. I mean, it was that was when Buffy was at its peak, I think.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, I thought. It feels a little post-peak. Those UPN years are kind of like whatever. Maybe just after, yeah. Yeah, but it was one of the better ones of the last two seasons for sure. And last but last not least, Maria, you had done such a great job describing the episode for all of us. Go listen to that Enterprise-splaining. But I wondered at the time if Mestral, the actor who played him, was somebody notable.
00:24:26
Speaker
He's not
J. Paul Bomer's Roles in Star Trek
00:24:27
Speaker
famous famous, but he's actually kind of Star Trek famous to me. He's the actor J. Paul Bomer. He's appeared as five different characters across Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise.
00:24:37
Speaker
Regrettably, two of these five characters were Nazis.
00:24:43
Speaker
And one is a Cardassian, so technically three Nazis, which is tough. Nazi adjacent. Or three Cardassians, depending on how you want to look at it. sure Exactly. if Fair enough. ah But the other two were, besides Mastral here in Carbon Creek, he played Seven of Nine's semi-offspring, the Borg drone called One, in the episode Drone. That's the episode where Seven's nanoprobes hook up with the Doctor's mobile emitter to create 19th century Borg drone. Oh. He is really, truly great in that role. Like he, he gives it humanity.
00:25:15
Speaker
He and Jerry Ryan are so great together. We married that episode. ah That was fantastic. So he's always stuck in my mind. So as soon as I saw him, I'm like, Oh, it's, it's the drone.
00:25:26
Speaker
and So it was great. It was a lot of fun. I just want to say as a person who has not seen Voyager, every single time anybody ever explained something that happened on Voyager, i i don't believe any of you. you are all lying to me.
00:25:42
Speaker
yeah The first three seasons of Voyager are like pretty normal TNG. g with yeah we've got We've got like two Vicks. There's a couple of moments that can pop out at you.
00:25:54
Speaker
But once Seven of Nine go gets on the show, it's just, it's Babytown Frolics. It's just madness stuff till the end. Voyager is so crazy that even lower decks could not deal with how crazy, like the crew of the Cerritos like, yeah, Voyager is pretty crazy.
00:26:10
Speaker
it's I've been rewatching Voyager and it's really interesting watching it while we're also watching Enterprise because there are a lot of similarities in the in this scenario. like they're if They're out in sort of unknown space. They don't know what's going on. there be And so seeing the difference between how Janeway reacts versus how Archer reacts to things is a lot of fun.
00:26:31
Speaker
Also pretty similar, Jamie, in that both Enterprise, ah this NX-01, and Voyager have equally incompetent crews with only ah maybe one person who knows what's going on at the The difference is half of Voyager is not Starfleet.
00:26:49
Speaker
but Well, and Janeway knows what's going on, and Tuvok sometimes, but like bread pretty much it's the Keystone Cops over there. Enterprise, is it's like and basically T'Ball.
00:27:03
Speaker
yeah Enterprise, the incompetence comes from the top down. That's right. That's a great point. But that's what I'm saying. Janeway is every every hour just plugging a new hole and like being like, can somebody learn something, a new skill? No.
00:27:21
Speaker
The running thread on Enterprise Splitting is that Enterprise, the the crew of Enterprise is a startup. And they're they're trying to move fast and break things. so And they don't actually care if they're doing it correctly as long as they're disrupting, which they do very well.
00:27:38
Speaker
In terms of disrupting, they're really good at their jobs. Yeah. Oh my goodness. In terms of starting wars, very, very good. In terms of starting a blood feud with every alien race, they're batting 900. They're great.
00:27:56
Speaker
All right, let's get into the greats. We'll start with great scenes. why don't you kick us off with what you thought was... ah ah Usually i ask people like, how many do you have? But we have so many people on the panel.
00:28:09
Speaker
We'll just go one by one. So Jamie, why don't you toss out a great scene that you had? I loved the scene with Mestrel in the car with Maggie, ah who was the bar owner. And I do want to say ah Maggie was played by Anne Cusack, which is a sister to John and Joan Cusack.
00:28:26
Speaker
and Unmistakably a Cusack. Unmistakably a Cusack. Yeah. The second I saw I'm like, there is something about her. And as soon as I saw she was a Cusack, I was like, ah, ah, that's it. Yes. That's what it is.
00:28:41
Speaker
um She was just so good in it. The two of them together were just so good. it was a nice little lovely moment. I like how they were both awkward and that awkwardness kind of mirrored each other.
00:28:53
Speaker
Like Mestrel was awkward because he's Vulcan and Maggie was awkward because she liked him but doesn't really like know how to act around him. But it was just it was just a sweet moment and I really enjoyed in that.
00:29:05
Speaker
and Until it got interrupted by a Tamir. you mean her like a victoria the Yeah, the the Victorian ghost impression that she did. She's even standing and weird. Like her feet like completely apart.
00:29:21
Speaker
When you describe this scene to us on Enterprise Flating Jamie, I had it in my head that this scene... I'm sorry, Maria, when you describe it to us... I added in my head that this place the scene took place in the dark because he left the house and went out to ballgame and then came back.
00:29:38
Speaker
So I was convinced that Tamir was watching them standing under a lamplight. It was just like completely dark and she was just staring at them. Like it was a whole man.
00:29:54
Speaker
It would have cost so much more money. But that's the only reason why it's really night. Why wasn't it at night? It should have been at night. That's so funny. Yeah, that is strange. Bill, what about you? What's great scene you had there? it's i I felt like this was a a good episode of Enterprise, so it's hard to pick out a good – the great scene for me was probably ah my boy Moe.
00:30:14
Speaker
uh whether they've all been living on the human planet and they're all sort of like uh mistral is i i in my head he's an anthropologist like he's because he's super into these and uh tamir just wants to get off but this guy is just fucking cleaning toilets so shram is just like and and again we made fun of this mrs garrett's toilet has been clogged for the third time And this poor dude is just living in a sitcom. He's a Warpfield engineer who has to clean toilets, and I just feel his pain.
00:30:44
Speaker
but What's the guy, the one day at a time guy? Schneider. yeah, he's completely Schneider. He's Schneider, and he's servicing facts of life. This is what I'm saying.
00:30:57
Speaker
100%. Holy cow. Mastral is in love with the humans. Tamir is completely divorcing herself from the humans. And Shram is literally dealing with the human shit. like this Poor guy.
00:31:10
Speaker
ah Maria, how about you? How about great team? um ah my I actually had two, ah but one was really the end of Jamie's scene. The scene of Tamir waiting for them just made me laugh so hard. Just when you cut to her and it's just her standing there, I laughed so hard at that at that scene. And then the other scene that I thought was was actually really cute was the scene where Trip asks DePaul how old she is.
00:31:36
Speaker
Because she just looks at him and he's like, nope, never mind. He shuts him down with a single like eyebrow. Brilliant. I thought the the teaser was a great scene. 100% the setup of like, oh, we're celebrating.
00:31:54
Speaker
ah Jolene Blaylock, I think is perfect in that scene. the You want me to tell you a story. And like she's just every turn or every look has such meaning to it. And actually complete credit to Scott Bakula and Connor Trenier.
00:32:11
Speaker
They're in the spirit of the episode. Like they are, they're as annoying as they are. Even your description, your description did it justice. Just watching their smug faces. It's like, shut up. guys But, but, you know, ah Scott Beckham is like trying to be both. He's sort of like, come on. But he's also like, yeah but I, I want to hear what she has to say. I'm interested. and And so I thought that was a really nice scene. It was a nice setup. It's very soft. Like, oh, that what you think is true is not true. And it's about something that no one who does, if you're, if you've seen very little or no Star Trek, you don't care about this.
00:32:48
Speaker
Like this doesn't mean Right. Right. But if you've watched all the Star Trek and you watch Star Trek First Contact, like that'll matter to you a little bit because you've already got a season of Enterprise under your belt.
00:32:59
Speaker
And according to the ratings, a lot of people were like, I'm good. so um cared about what the story was about, but I thought it was a great scene. We are all welcome to introduce another scene. I just wanted to give everyone a turn through. So does everyone ever have any other great scenes that they want to highlight? Okay. I'm going to run through a couple more that I thought were great.
00:33:19
Speaker
um Strawn returns home and and complains about fixing Mrs. Garrett's sink. T'Pol and Mestrel argue about remaining on her on Earth. This is about humanity's potential.
00:33:30
Speaker
And T'Pol then follows him to see him leave with Maggie, the bar owner. So you had when they got back is the stare, and I had when they left that whole bit. like just And then she's just there staring with her pouty face.
00:33:43
Speaker
I thought that was really great. i liked I think it was a great scene, Tamir and Jack, the son of of Maggie, the bar owner. They discuss meditation and his other interests. And we're not mentioning the scene, but there's like a couple of moments where men are clearly like, geez, this woman is beautiful. It's literally jelly play. And every time it's it's in there, like I don't think it's it's something we should ignore. He's kind of flirting with her or whatever, but they're also connecting.
00:34:11
Speaker
And I just thought it was... He was able to, he wasn't just putting moves on her because he's kind of, um when she turns him down, he's still going with it. And he's just trying to connect.
00:34:22
Speaker
I mean, obviously he's horny too, but I thought that was interesting because remember her whole thing is we're not going to immerse ourselves in the culture. We're not going to connect to these people, but then she's bringing a bit of her own culture into while she's cleaning the bar. She sees one last lit candle and she's like, I guess I'll allow myself to meditate in front of this, all these people. And and it leads to this moment. So I thought it was a nice crossover. bill what you going to say?
00:34:46
Speaker
I'm making too many changes to this episode. I liked that the journey was that Tamir finally connected with humanity and saw their potential. I wish Jack wasn't so generic.
00:34:58
Speaker
I'm not asking for like, he's going to be John F. Kennedy. He's going to be the guy that changes the world. I just wish there had been more better writing in that scene between the two of them where he talked about like,
00:35:10
Speaker
Because he's just going to go, he's going to go for engineering. Like he just wants to get out of the town. He was such a generic filling character. I wish there had been something presented with him. Like he's going, he, he represents the best of humanity. He's going to try to make things better. And that's what Tamir connects with. And that's why she tries to send him to college. in And that's the connection.
00:35:28
Speaker
I felt that the connection she made with him was that he was hungry for knowledge. Yes, that's what I was. yeah It's not necessarily what he can do for or what he will do.
00:35:39
Speaker
It's that he he was striving to learn more and to learn more than what he could get from his little town. Yeah, the thing I loved about that particular scene was right at the end when he says what was nice talking to you and she said likewise or something. And then you they kind of stay on her face when she, because she realizes she's not lying. Like she realizes, oh, I actually did enjoy this interaction. And it comes as a surprise to her. And again, Jolene Blaylock plays it beautifully, you know, with just a couple of facial expressions. But it's a really, it's a really nice little scene where she's like, oh, okay, I get it that the humans...
00:36:16
Speaker
I get that some humans are actually, you know, my time. Yep. Dear great granddaughter, you may find this hard to believe, but some humans don't suck. You're going to have to look at them really, really hard. But they don't suck. Then I put Tamir on the train going into the city. just the simple example. She says as little as possible.
00:36:44
Speaker
ah She called ahead. Obviously that was efficient. um You know, right. i there's so a little detour of like, wow, she's really going for it here. And then two, one last scene, which is actually too many, like two scenes, but I liked the wrap up scene to close the story out because the whole time she's, this is her really leaning into, you the Tripp's like, I can't, this is like Neil Armstrong didn't land on, wasn't the first one to land on the moon. And she's like, maybe he wasn't. And she's just like going for it. And then she leaves.
00:37:15
Speaker
And I actually really appreciated the ending of revealing that it was true and that she's meditating. And, you know, I don't know, ah maybe I'm just getting to be a softy or whatever, but it was so interesting to see that this episode was about connection.
00:37:30
Speaker
And as much as, as much as she's just had an hour or 90 minutes of, of what has to be one of many insufferable dinners with these chuckleheads. yeah This is just another in the long way. And she was able to reek it brought her back to reconnecting. We don't know if she looks at that purse every night. We don't know, yeah but yeah I just thought it was a nice touching, like a nice way to end the episode.
00:37:52
Speaker
b Brian, Brian, how much enterprise have you seen? ah Basically, half i think half the episodes is probably a fair number. Dinner, any interaction with food is a frat is a fraught encounter on this show. It always gets weird, especially if Phlox shows up.
00:38:13
Speaker
They were going to make Shatner the chef chef at the end. That was the big idea for the final season. And that did not work out. Yeah. Okay. I do want to say on the on the purse, it's I don't think of Vulcans as...
00:38:29
Speaker
people who would be have keepsakes and who would feel like an emotional connection to like a purse that they would pass down through their family. So I thought it, it, it really like said something about T'Pol and her family.
00:38:45
Speaker
And i I think going back to Brian, your theme about how like her great grandmother learned about compassion and the importance of it and kind of like pass that down through her family in the same way that she passed down that purse.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i that's what I'm saying. Like, I can't believe i can't believe this episode.
00:39:09
Speaker
Did you did it you all see High Fidelity, the the movie with Jack Black? Remember when they listened to the punk the shoplifters, they listened to their album, and Jack Black's just shaking his head, and ah and he goes, it's really fucking good. It's like, this is me watching this episode of Enterprise. He's annoyed.
00:39:29
Speaker
i He's annoyed, yeah, and I'm watching this episode going, I can't believe this. Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
The whole time you were describing it, I was like, hold on a minute. That doesn't sound half bad. What's going on here? right. Best Trek tropes. Let's start with ah Maria. Why don't you hit us up with a best Trek trope?
00:39:49
Speaker
Best Trek Trope, breaking the shit out of the prime
Tamir's Prime Directive Breach
00:39:53
Speaker
directive. Oh, sorry, am I allowed I love it. And that's clear. I mean, okay, it wasn't the prime directive at the time, but it was the equivalent, right? She famous completely messed with Maria, someday they're going to write out a directive.
00:40:11
Speaker
Some sort of directive. Sorry, I needed to eat my prime rib while I talk about this directive.
00:40:20
Speaker
I always love when they talk about it, like, we can't interfere, and Tamir is all, we can't interfere, we can't contaminate, and then she immediately, well, not immediately, but she eventually turns around and is like, nope, I'm going to fuck with this and just do it, and show them Velcro, what the hell, I'm going to make them do it. I need that cash for Jack.
00:40:41
Speaker
Was there a Vulcan named Velcro Yeah, like, giving them advanced technology, even if it's just Velcro, it does seem like a really big, really big breaking up.
00:41:02
Speaker
Velcro truly changed you, man. Jamie, how about you? Any best trick tropes? Having to cover their pointy ears because they're undercover. I like Mescal used the beanie. The other two just like covered their ears with their hair, which definitely seems like if there was a slight breeze, it it would expose them, but I guess not. They have some really good hair. I love when Moe comes home, Strong comes home, he like unps his hair so his ears are showing. He's like, my ears are itchy from all this hair on top of him. Bill, any for you?
00:41:42
Speaker
um I know this is not a time travel episode, which is a mistake I made a lot on our episode, as we're calling it this way. I know it's not a time travel episode, but any time that Trek goes back to old Earth and somebody has to explain our primitive customs, absolutely love it. Give me more, and more, more. Oh, the currency. This paper has value to them.
00:42:04
Speaker
To Paul putting the dress on backwards. and he anything I want more. Give me more of that. And I i actually think it would have been Yes.
00:42:14
Speaker
I would have, I think it would have enhanced this episode if they had really played up what a tumultuous time the fifties were in America. I wish they had played up the cold North style, cold war paranoia.
00:42:26
Speaker
I wish they had played up. Maybe there are some people in this town who aren't great to the outsiders who look kind of weird and act kind of weird, but anytime i can see. Also, I want to point out that dress she put on backwards had like full buttons down the front.
00:42:42
Speaker
So if she put on backwards, I'm like, how did she get all those buttons on? she didn't. She didn't have them buttoned. I assumed she was going to try to get Mistral to fix it for her.
00:42:58
Speaker
I have five. So if anyone wants to try them in with other best Trek tropes, please, ah I will run through mine very quickly. i have a longer list worst Trek tropes.
00:43:09
Speaker
I might think of some as you as you bring yourself. So Vulcan exactness, two examples. Archer says the longest a Vulcan has ever served aboard a human ship is two weeks until Paul corrects him with 10 days. And he lets that slide.
00:43:23
Speaker
10 long 10 fucking days. I don't even remember who it was. Was it Archer again? Maybe? Or T'Pol? It's Trip. He says, why do the Vulcans keep this a secret? No, that was Archer.
00:43:33
Speaker
And she says, the incident is well documented at the Science Directorate and the Space Council. So... Y'all just said, look! You should go to Vulcan sometime, asshole! yeah Vulcan's being vegetarians. Can you imagine this crew going to the Vulcan Science Academy? It's the Beverly Hillbillies! Why didn't we get that episode? just They'd just be knocking shit over, like what's here?
00:43:59
Speaker
Porthos running around. Where's the gift store? That's right. Trip's going treat it like Disney World because he's from Florida. Trip shows up with fake ears.
00:44:15
Speaker
Like, what? Goodness. Big foam ears.
00:44:26
Speaker
T-shirts that say I heart Vulcans. I got our Fast Pass. Trip, I don't think they have Fast Pass. Yes. Gimme, gimme, gimme.
00:44:38
Speaker
Vulcans being vegetarians. Here it creates a dilemma that pushes the story forward, right? They're like, they see deer running through the forest near where the ships crash. and like, well, we could eat the deer. And they're like, why don't we go into town?
00:44:51
Speaker
So I thought that was good. Stealing clothes off a clothesline, which we already talked about, like putting on different clothes is good. Right. wish i knew I knew it would never happen, i but I wish after they had stolen the clothes off the clothesline, they had taken ah a hot pie that was cooling on a windowsill. They were hungry. Absolutely.
00:45:10
Speaker
so It's the one thing of Time Zero I wish we had gotten. Remember in Time Zero Part Two when they're all in set San Francisco and they're already dressed in their clothes about what they're to How did Riker get the cops uniform? It's just like, oh, we missed some of them getting their clothes. That would have been fun.
00:45:27
Speaker
Even in this one, where did they find the shoes? Because T'Pol had some heels on. She had some heels that matched perfectly. Where did she get those heels?
00:45:38
Speaker
The shoes were drying on the clothesline. They didn't have the courage to use their Vulcan boots. ah That would have been funny. how was great would I really wish there had been a joke where T'Pol had to put on high heels. It's like, how do people fucking walk in these things?
00:45:52
Speaker
Or what if the men had put them on not knowing? I would also love a clothesline scene like that where they get everything wrong. Like the guys put on a dress and the women put on the slat. Like, why would you not? Right. If you've never if you don't know. i mean, yes, they've they've been looking at the humans. So I guess that's why. But still, I think it would be fun to have a scene like that where they We talked about this on our on our episode. that There's never a scene where they... Well, actually, was it was return of the Archons. Like, Sulu comes back crazy. Like, they got like they got the clothes wrong, and that's how they found out that they were not actually from the planet.
00:46:26
Speaker
But they never get it completely wrong, where, like... ah It was, I guess. He's dressed as a priest or something. much Archer goes down into a city dressed in like hip hop couture with like cat turned sideways. They never completely fuck it up. They always get it mostly right.
00:46:44
Speaker
Well, there are scientists. There's some trial and error, but you're right. At least you can imagine that Tamir would want to wear pants because they have pockets. right So they're more efficient. you know, it's that kind of thing. ah Baseball.
00:46:57
Speaker
a big Star Trek trope. And it's pro baseball. They actually take a Vulcan to a minor league game or an independent game. So, you know, great. ah Love it. ah There's no heavy.
00:47:08
Speaker
There's not even really an antagonist. There's simply a problem or like a series of problems that everybody has to work together to solve. And to me, that is what Star Trek does that no other TV show does ever.
00:47:20
Speaker
with any degree of like goodness, like it's skill. And, you know, it's not like Star Trek does it often. It certainly has been something that's kind of largely forgotten now in the new, new era, which whatever, but um I love it. I think it's a great Trek trope because even though Bill, you point out things that the episode doesn't do, I think the things it does do that it, that it's focusing on, I would say even um is sort of in the,
00:47:47
Speaker
with best intentions and good intentions and what the spirit of the, of the franchise, the whole endeavor. And i thought that was I really appreciated that. Tamir is Tamir is the antagonist. I mean, Tamir is the one, well, I know she's, she's the one, she is the obstacle. Like Mistral has to, has to convince her that they need to, I mean, she's the one, she straight up lies that he died and allows him to go and quote unquote, infect this culture or explore this culture and stuff. And and um I, you know,
00:48:17
Speaker
Good point. That's a good that's a good philosophical battle. Maybe that will come up later in another great. All right. ah Worst Trek tropes then. Who had the long list? Maria, you had the long list? I believe I had two. Jamie, let's go.
00:48:33
Speaker
All right. These are um actually mostly specific, enterprise specific tropes. Wonderful. the the Just having a gratuitous horny moment, like the nipple shadow.
00:48:48
Speaker
but nipple shadow, man. Behind the sheet. And at the exact right angle that you could just make out her nipple. Why did any of that need to be there? Because it's Enterprise?
00:49:03
Speaker
they have to do They spent so much time setting that shot up. Yes. it's I also think they have a network note where they have to do a decon chamber scene in every episode and they're like, and we can't do It's as close as we can get. and this is our decon chamber scene.
00:49:19
Speaker
But i couldn't Maria, you describe it such a way it made me think of the Austin Powers sequence. And watching it, I was like, oh shit, this looks exactly like the Austin Powers.
00:49:33
Speaker
And, you know, it was funny because it's been a while it's been a while since I've watched it. So i I rewatched it last night, a part of it last night, just to get... didn't prep for this and I was and when I was watching that scene at the beginning I was like I mean maybe it didn't show that maybe I just imagined that there were nipples there they are there are the nipples like they're very clear so
00:49:55
Speaker
Jamie Willis do you have we can move on to other people maybe they'll get to some time all right all right Maria you have two ah Yeah, mike mine is actually one of Jamie's best, which is Vulcans covering their ears with hair. i fucking hate it.
00:50:07
Speaker
I think it's just so dumb. it it bother It just it niggles at the back of my mind so much because I am constantly messing with my hair. And so I would always be pushing my hair behind my ears, just constantly.
00:50:21
Speaker
um And then the other one that I didn't like, and i talked about this on on our show, was... figuring out pool immediately was a huge problem for me. But just also, even if you even if you accept that he had been studying it in some way, just because you know ga geometry doesn't mean you're a good pool player. And that is something that is a very common story that kind of drives me a little crazy.
00:50:50
Speaker
He even says it's something that even a Vulcan child could do. And it's like, hey, hey. There's so much more physics associated with it. It was only one game. If it had been like he loses the first game and he's like, great how about another match? If he played like it was like, OK, now I've got it. OK, that's fair. But also, at least to that point, they addressed it by he's losing. hmm.
00:51:14
Speaker
And then he gets- But he's not playing. Right, right. As soon as he play. Yes, exactly. Yeah, and just because you know it intellectually how it works doesn't mean that you can actually do it. Like there's still skill involved Right.
00:51:31
Speaker
How about this? T'Pol is on the train. She gets off. She's walking through the big city. She looks at her note and then she walks into world pool tennis pool championship. And then she walks out with a big, two big saxophony and then half dollar. would been amazing. That is actually a better idea. We needed another scene with the pool. The pool was the way to go.
00:51:55
Speaker
that That's let there's not polluting the timeline at all. That would have been better. Oh my goodness, Bill. Do you have any worse Trek tropes? ah No, it's hard for me to to to separate good and bad Trek tropes. I've just been thinking about like changes that could have been made to this that would have i think made the show more effective. But This was, I'm just so happy that we got a good storytelling episode of Enterprise. It's like, oh, this had a beginning, middle, and an end, and things worked. It was, ah but I really thought it was, yeah, somebody going off brand on, again, they're not in Starfleet. They're not like somebody going going rogue on Starfleet. It's like, no, fuck you. I'm not going back to Vulcan. I'm going to stay here and be on this planet and observe this amazing culture.
00:52:44
Speaker
um I thought that was that was that was a cool idea. So the only other one I had that adjacent to yours though, Jamie, the first one you mentioned, which is, but men reacting to a sexual moment with the woman in the most nerd ass way possible.
00:52:57
Speaker
So these guys were so nice in this 1950s small Pennsylvania town. ah Listen, women women like sex and sexuality as much as men, and they don't they can be aggressive too. And just the idea that she's like – she kisses him and it's all very sweet, and he's like, that was pleasant. And she's like, I know it's been a while. You know what mean? She's like not up like actually upset. Right.
00:53:22
Speaker
And he says, ah very pleasant. This is very similar to Brandon Braga's scripted dialogue. It's basically Worf and Troy's date in the series finale of Next Generation. And Troy's describing this date that they're on with the ocean breeze and the Belialik music.
00:53:38
Speaker
And Worf's like, it was stimulating. And she's like, all you have to say is it's stimulating? And he thinks about it for a moment and he goes, it was very stimulating. And it's just like... The show is so fucking weird because in terms of being voyeuristic, it's extremely, well, extremely voyeuristic. We've talked about like we were, we were sold a bill of goods on a horny Baywatch Star Trek that was not delivered upon.
00:54:01
Speaker
But in terms of actual interaction between the characters, it's extremely chaste and awkward. i Yes. Yeah. Yes. ah Jamie, did you have any more worst Trek tropes? Yeah.
00:54:13
Speaker
So, ah and again, these are these are all worst Enterprise tropes. Just Trip and Archer not believing T'Pol. When has T'Pol been wrong about anything aside from time travel, which he still does not believe in? But Trip's reaction is always, I can't believe what you're telling me. And Archer's reaction is, that's not true.
00:54:35
Speaker
I'm totally with you. What else did you have? Vulcans lying very easily, which happens all of the time on her Enterprise. Vulcans just These motherfuckers lie about lying.
00:54:47
Speaker
they lie. It doesn't seem to be difficult for them at all. I thought it was supposed to be, but ah no, Vulcans just lie very easily. But then everybody else believes them because everyone believes that Vulcans can't lie. So they just lie. Get away with it. Because at least the Vulcans seem like the least interested in lying.
00:55:07
Speaker
And so I think they gain a degree of credibility. It's always interesting thinking about the Leonard Nimoy saying that Vulcans do not lie. You watch that clip and it looks like he's straining to sell that lie. Like the way Leonard Nimoy is a very, he played Spock very emotionally. And just like, he's, he's kind of saying it in a robotic way so that you believe him.
00:55:29
Speaker
But if you watch Spock's, all of his performances and his tones, he's basically just trying to be like, can we move on? Vulcans do not lie Move on, accept it and move on. if That's it I'm telling you that, that Vulcan marketing department, their department.
00:55:47
Speaker
The novel. Convincing everybody that Vulcans can't lie. Most cosplayable character or moment, Bill. Anytime Jolene Blaylock is wearing a 1950s dress is freaking amazing. I loved her hair. Like, I'm not a fan of the bowl cut they gave her as a regular character.
00:56:06
Speaker
Anything. I'm sure there are people out there who have cosplayed Tamir wearing a 1950s dress. She looks amazing. Those are. Yeah, that's my was the same thing. and hat But the dress should be backwards. Yeah.
00:56:20
Speaker
That would be fantastic. yes That would be next tier. But yeah, no. Someone should though be, um, be Mestral, but then have the sheet of the silhouette. That would just be fantastic. If you were just cosplaying, cosplaying, just, you had a sheet in front of you. with That's right.
00:56:41
Speaker
No. ah Jamie, did you have anything different? Yeah, the the leather uniforms that the Vulcans were wearing when they first crashed. I've never seen on Star Trek a uniform like that. It looked so awesome. um they They looked amazing. um ah But yeah, that that dress was great. I already know the perfect sewing pattern for it too. but i They should have walked into the town and the people in the bar should have gone, oh, it's your motorcycles break down.
00:57:14
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. I agree. I loved the old school Vulcan uniforms. I thought they would be they're extraordinarily cosplayable. That was the reason I go into town. We get to finally break out our landing party jackets and worry.
00:57:29
Speaker
so I just had a weird convergence. It looked like their uniforms were made out of leather. But clearly they couldn't have been. It was pleather. yeah Yeah. It's leather. how many How many Nagas did they kill for those noga Naga lot of Nagas. Yeah. I mean, we have artificial leather today. I'm sure. Leather is not.
00:57:50
Speaker
Yeah. That's definitely what it was. Yeah. And with the with the giant gold crests on the front of the jackets, I loved them. I loved them. But yeah, i my cosplayable moments were those or just wearing that dress backwards and whatnot. Really fun deep cut.
00:58:09
Speaker
I just want to say that the Enterprise uniform itself is a great cosplay. As somebody who cosplays that uniform, I made one for myself. um It's fun to wear because so many people are cosplaying Star Trek, but very few people are wearing an Enterprise uniform. And so other people get very excited when they see it. ah they They yell faith of the heart at you, or at least they do at me. I'm just in mind.
00:58:34
Speaker
um So it is it is quite fun. um it's I have to circle back to Faith of the Heart. Sure. You have a whole segment of your show, which is fantastic, about the the theme song. And go listen to the show. It's more than what I'm saying.
00:58:48
Speaker
but I believe you're talking about the Diane Warren update of the week. That's right. Even though our show is bi-weekly. My point is this. Maria brought up a great point that the ah skip intro button for Enterprise does not pop up right away. season two. It was fine in season one, but now you have to hear the first two lines of the theme song. They went to every other Star Trek show and it pops up immediately. Enterprise.
00:59:18
Speaker
a They are fucking with us on Paramount+. 100% died.
00:59:24
Speaker
and Warren has in Hollywood listen my how why are you guys it's a direct impact it's a direct attack on him personally because he was so proud of himself every time every time he would like be able to hit skip intro so we never heard a single note of the song he would be like yes and now he physically can't do it there there's i think Next Generation fades to black. The button pops up before it fades in for the credits even appear.
00:59:56
Speaker
ah Not Enterprise. they Oh, man. They're torturing us. I listen every time. I watch the entire opening credits. Every single time. There is...
01:00:08
Speaker
Otherwise, I don't feel like getting the full Enterprise experience if I don't do that. It takes you out of the show. It takes you out of the universe. yeah It is often a jump scare when it starts.
01:00:25
Speaker
And then you to the ah the music that they use at the end, the the melody that plays in the credits. Yeah, I love that. That's a great theme. Why isn't that played? I'll listen to that. I enjoy that very much. there is There is a theory that if you are a student of American history, no matter what your subject is,
01:00:44
Speaker
If you are a student of American history, you have an opinion on the Battle of the battle of Gettysburg.
Opinions on 'Faith of the Heart' Theme Song
01:00:50
Speaker
you You simply have to, it's a defining moment. If you are a fan of Star Trek, no matter what aspect, you have an opinion on Faith of the Heart. That's a great point.
01:01:01
Speaker
That's valid. I wonder what the Venn diagram is Section 31 enjoyers Faith of the Heart enjoyers, because have to ask me some, but I wonder what it is.
01:01:12
Speaker
um All right, I'll move on if we're ready. Yeah, that's fine. Now it's time for The Line Must Be Drawn. yeah Great lines. I'll start with Maria. i have a couple.
01:01:23
Speaker
um the The very first one in one of the very first scenes where Trip trip says, make mine a large indulgence. I just thought it was cute when she was like, I'll just have a small indulgence.
01:01:37
Speaker
ah Vulcans don't take vacations was nice. yeah um I think, and then my two my two favorites, one was Tamir going, you were engaging in intimate activity. Ah! diction that she puts on that line is amazing. The way she had initiated intimate activity was amazing.
01:02:03
Speaker
And then ah Vulcan number three, whose name I've already forgotten. We called him Mo. try ah Alcohol, frozen fish sticks, and the constant threat of nuclear annihilation. I thought was a very good line as the the things you would miss about her.
01:02:18
Speaker
Jamie. Jamie. um I really like this exchange with Tamir and Mestral when she said, you are to have no further contact with that woman.
01:02:31
Speaker
And he's like, you can't make the decision that decision. And she goes, I'm still in command. And he goes, command of what? i I loved that. It reminded me of like ah if any of you guys read though the wager when they're it's like these British officers and they're they're stranded on an island.
01:02:52
Speaker
And it's like this question of like, is the person in charge still in charge now that you're just stranded on an island? It kind of brought that up for me. Like, is she still in charge? Like, what are the rules on this?
01:03:07
Speaker
But I enjoyed that a lot. Bill, did you have any? I don't have a great line. I'm going to transfer this over to a great performance because Well, we we have those later. well that's later. We're coming up, so hold on to that. Well, then I'll hold on to that. yeah ah yeah trip Trip, just how old are you?
01:03:25
Speaker
It's got to be in a record. Trip, that's classified information. So I think I was already cited by those. Sorry. i i don't know if you've seen this Enterprise episode. We've brought this fucking up before in Fallen Hero where they have the Vulcan ambassador on there. And he's like, well, how old are you? And he's like, well, Commander Tucker, I'm doing the Southern accent that I put in my head. Commander Tucker, i but was my understanding that it was impolite to ask a woman her age.
01:03:50
Speaker
sh Trip has already forgotten that Vulcans are extremely long lived. but yeah Yeah. I believe Mestral's line to Tamir, I believe you have that garment on backwards.
01:04:01
Speaker
so thats me Strawn or Moe, there is a comic actor known as a stooge with that name. The boy believes we have similar hair. oh and just great He was annoyed. you and That guy doesn't get enough credit. He has no real storyline. He's just the the comic guy, the bumbler.
01:04:19
Speaker
But, you know... they're supposed to be aliens so i'm not like looking for fidelity to human whatever they all look weird too right they just look weird it's an eyebrow nobody comments on the eyebrows that's a great point because to your point about why do they always just cover their heads or that would annoy people at least they call it out right when maggie kisses him she's like what do you have under that capsule like they deal with that but you're right the eyebrows they don't deal with that This is the longest quote in line. I just got to run through the whole thing.
01:04:49
Speaker
Tucker saying footnote. This is like finding out Neil Armstrong wasn't the first man to walk on the moon. Perhaps he wasn't. Then Archer says, how long did this mestral stay on earth? And it's false as the rest of his life, presumably Archer. And then would be another hundred, 150 years, possibly longer.
01:05:04
Speaker
She is fucking with them. And it's amazing. And then the last, the last screen line I have is trip saying, damn captain. She put one over on us. I will say... It's like nine A's, but he delivered it as it was like, damn! I did enjoy the line that Mr. Al had. was like, oh yeah, I'll be back.
01:05:28
Speaker
I love Lucy is on tonight. I was just about to say that one. That was great. Any other great lines? Okay, we'll move on to, would this be a fun holo novel to play out?
01:05:42
Speaker
Jamie. I mean, it... I don't know, like it it's very slice of life almost, which I don't know if that as a hollow novel, like I feel like if I'm doing a hollow novel, I want something exciting.
01:05:58
Speaker
um but You want one of Janeway's weird gothic romances? No. Everyone gets to the Irish one who would. Like what? Maria, how about you? fun Fun? I think actually the section of this that I think would be fun because I am a giant nerd is if I could have a hollow novel of the very beginning before the accident of the Vulcans is just hanging out and watching Sputnik and observing observing the planet, I think that would be really cool.
01:06:30
Speaker
Bill? For myself, no, this would not be a ah good holo novel because I've lived in the Midwest in a boring town.
01:06:42
Speaker
I think Vulcans would enjoy it because they enjoy bland food. And if you want bland food, ah mining town in Pennsylvania in the nineteen fifty s right up your... They have salt and pepper. Maybe one too many spices. LAUGHTER
01:06:59
Speaker
I had the thought of if you were playing as a human, if you're a human playing as the Vulcans, that would be probably not so fun because you start stepping out of being a Vulcan. It calls attention and all that stuff. Yeah. If you're a Vulcan, you wouldn't do it for fun.
01:07:17
Speaker
You would do it for training. And then that way I would think it'd be very interesting. Actually. I have a hollow novel. You're ah you go into a small town and you have to figure out who the alien is.
01:07:28
Speaker
yeah that's an actually That would be interesting. We're going to get some version of that this year anyway, but not quite in the fun way that you mean it. Who's the weirdo who never takes off his beanie cap and has amazing eyebrows that reach up to his hairline?
01:07:43
Speaker
that's That's a good one, actually. um But then i was the third thing I was thinking was, would it be fun to play as T'Pol, Archer, or Trip, and you're just telling the story and fucking with your commanding officer?
01:07:57
Speaker
How far can you push your commanding officer with bullshit stories uh that might be fun too i also if you're archer like archer was really thinking he had her over he had something on her right he's like i noticed in your profile you went why'd you go there and then she turned the tables on his ass so fast it's so great that's a really long con on to paul's party it's like hmm i'm gonna work for some asshole five years from now If you ask me about any other Star Trek show, like, would you want to, like, go hang out or do a holo novel where you're hanging out on this ship? I would say yes. But when it comes to this Enterprise, no, thank you. I don't want to be there. I don't want to hang out with Archer.
01:08:42
Speaker
Sounds awful. Name one bad thing that Archer has done, Jamie. Name two bad things. Name one.
Praise for J. Paul Bomer's Performance
01:08:53
Speaker
All right. ah The Anton Crittian Award for Best Performance. So, Bill. Hey! It's my boy, Mistral. J. Paul Bomer. i don' I don't want to damn him with faint praise. Like, this is just something I picked up watching this.
01:09:07
Speaker
He's doing a data impression. Like, yeah the all the Vulcans we have seen in the show thus far are jerks. Go back and watch this episode. He's doing the data thing, where as he's explaining something, he's nodding.
01:09:20
Speaker
Baseball is a very interesting game. So, that's... All the Vulcans we have seen thus far in Enterprise have mostly been assholes. And I think that that's how he's interpreting connecting with these characters. So, yeah, that's my MVP.
01:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, I thought he was great. Yeah, I mean, I also had Mestrel. I just think he... He does such a good job at like he's still very much Vulcan and but he you can tell how curious he is about everything, which is interesting because I i believe there was an episode of Enterprise so far where T'Pol says Vulcans are not.
01:09:59
Speaker
Did she say Vulcans are not curious? Or not and don't have imagination, maybe, which is it's slightly different in that context. Yes, I call that out. There was the imagination, but there was also – oh, no, she said they don't like to explore.
01:10:12
Speaker
don't know. I thought she said that they weren't curious. No, I think you're right. I think it was curious. I have something I need to say for our podcast. you see Mistral, he's definitely curious.
01:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Oh, he's curious. Yeah. well It's so weird because they do all this exploration and study examination and they say that that's not being curious.
01:10:34
Speaker
Like whatever, that's almost like it's a bad thing. It's like a positive emotion. So they don't want to express it. and I'm like, why? it It seems pretty logical to be curious. i and really I don't remember that because like I said, I haven't seen every episode. Maria, what about you? Best performance. We've got two for J. Paul Boomer.
01:10:52
Speaker
And I agree. i I actually, I struggled with this one because I loved, I thought he did a great job. i thought Tamir did a great job, but I ended up giving this performance to Mo. honornard treni to the the The numbers, the the guy whose name we never found out until we read the IMDb, just because it was such and I actually thought, I thought Bill, you were going to pick this just because he was so, so,
01:11:18
Speaker
funny and like in just his little like he had only a handful of scenes but there was a whole you could tell there was a whole story that we were not
01:11:30
Speaker
Mo went, and the first time he went to Mrs. Garrett's, they had real problems. And then in the end, he's like fixing her vacuum cleaner, even though he's quit.
01:11:40
Speaker
Like, Mo was definitely fucking Mrs. Garrett, y'all. Like, there is no doubt in my mind. There was another whole story. There's another Vulcan ship where some guys tell, you let me tell you the story of my second forefather in his time on Earth. That's exactly right.
01:11:59
Speaker
That's also why fucking all the widows in town and there are all these half-Vulcan children running through Carbon Creek, Pennsylvania.
01:12:11
Speaker
And that is also why was like, yep, I gotta go. You want me to say this guy's dead? Whatever. Let's get together. is going down 20 year children must have been Mistral I was out there I don't know what's going on he's like pretending to be outraged oh Mistral Mistral let me just delete my genetic records from the Vulcan Science Council you're all probably right actually but I have to say that I was enchanted by Julian Boylock in this episode he was great in this episode
01:12:48
Speaker
Every bit of her voice, like, and this is the thing, though, you are all highlighting the actual story that's being told. and And so it's like, is she great as Tamir? She's great as Tamir.
01:12:59
Speaker
She's amazing as T'Pol. Like, I've never been so, like... She's playing with them. This is an actor that's come in complete control. Her eye movements, her her voice, like every little change. And I feel like the other two guys can't help, but because they're all pretty solid actors of their own right, like they can only react in a way that makes them better.
01:13:22
Speaker
It's like, it just feels like she makes the episode ah even more as T'Pol than she does that. Like it wouldn't work if the other guys were, this is the thing about this episode. I think the episode is actually impeccably cast.
01:13:36
Speaker
I think everyone does a great job. Say what you will about the son, but I think his earnestness and I think the the interplay that he has with Jolene Boylock, I think it all works. Oh, his performance is
Casting Story of Jolene Blalock as T'Pol
01:13:46
Speaker
good.
01:13:46
Speaker
And Cusack is fantastic. Even the little Wormy guy, who we actually get his name, the the the pool guy. Billy? Billy, yeah. It's like, he seemed like it was fine. Wormy?
01:13:56
Speaker
He was nice. He was weirdly nice. Yeah, weirdly nice. And so it's just like... On the scale of this show. The... So I just thought it was like a well-cast, well-performed thing. So it's kind of hard to say, but we've got two for J. Paul Blomer. I will not disagree.
01:14:12
Speaker
Because when you were describing Maria, I was like, who is this amazing sounding actor? And it was him. And he sold it. Brian, have you heard the story about how they cast Jolene Blaylock?
01:14:23
Speaker
Oh, boy. Do I want to know? It's such a good story. Can I do a little... can i give a little can i do Can I do a prelude to the story, Jamie? What's the prelude? So...
01:14:35
Speaker
prit Jamie bought this book like she bought an actual physical book about the history of the entirety of Star Trek to find out what she could about Enterprise. And it's basically two pages in this entire time.
01:14:49
Speaker
I bought it because I wanted to find out about Diane Warren and how she ended up working on the book. And that was two pages. But subset of a subset. There was also this story in there about casting Jolene Blaylock and how they had they had two requirements for the character of T'Pol.
01:15:05
Speaker
She had to be stunningly beautiful and be able to act well. And apparently this was extremely hard to find. There are apparently very few beautiful women who can act in Hollywood.
01:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's so rare to find that. Ramin and Braga many times were like, it was so hard finding a beautiful woman that could act. so This tells you everything you need to know about this show. Yeah. yeah So Jolie Haylock comes in and apparently they were like, well, she can clearly act, but she's not pretty enough because she...
01:15:45
Speaker
wasn't wearing makeup, which I do not believe that she was not wearing she looks but great makeup for an audition, you guys. She's like in the same pool as Angelina Jolie. These people are insane.
01:15:57
Speaker
Berman and Braga felt like she was not pretty enough to
Humor in Vulcan Tools and Performances
01:16:01
Speaker
play the character, but then got an assistant to go put makeup on her and then had her do another edition and ah audition and then they're like, so she's beautiful now.
01:16:12
Speaker
And they hired her. They she's all thated Jolene Blalock? yeah Yeah. She showed up wearing glasses and she was wearing overalls with paint on them. And her hair was in bone. Her hair was in a bone. Yeah. And Rishon's knees are cracking as he gets down and goes, like, and he takes off her glasses. yeah Luckily, this audition took place during prom.
01:16:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:37
Speaker
this word fucking show. Unbelievable. Oh, that's that's horrible. Okay. The Shatner then. That story's really going for it. That's usually what we look for in the Shatner. It's not necessarily bad acting.
01:16:51
Speaker
It's just like, who who do you want to appreciate for like, this person clearly was going for it. Did they hit it? Who knows? But ah Bill, sounds like you have that. First of all, how dare you, William Shatner? Look.
01:17:02
Speaker
like I like William Shatner. I think William Shatner is good actor. Obviously, the Shatner of this episode is Shram. Shram is my boy. Shram is... ever You get these actors, they get three or four lines. Shram doesn't have a lot to do. We don't even hear his name during the episode. Is anyone Strawn or Moe? Strawn, not Shram. Strawn.
01:17:26
Speaker
Shram is Jeffrey Combs, the Andorian. My pick for this is Jeffrey Combs as Shram.
01:17:36
Speaker
He's just hanging over this. ah No, the actor playing Moe, he just, whatever he's given, he makes a meal out of. yeah Doesn't break the scene, but he draws attention to himself, which is chef's kiss. Perfect. Can I just draw attention to the joke that's in him using the Vulcan laser tool to fix the plumbing? Because Vulcans are supposed to have so be stronger than humans, and they are making a joke about it.
01:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, there are some pipes that Ian's talking cannot unscrew, and I appreciated that as someone who has plumbing problems. This is how hard Mrs. Garrett's shits are.
01:18:18
Speaker
Oh, my God. I need to get the transporters working on our destroyed ship so that I can clean this pipe. Maybe if I heat the stool, will loosen it. I just want to point out, i I really liked how weird when they finally, they went back to get the Vulcan weapon to save the
Appreciation for Vulcan Episode Details
01:18:35
Speaker
miners.
01:18:35
Speaker
I liked how weird the gun looked. It was basically just like a long tube. was so It looked like it came out of Flash Gordon. It was just a big, long tube, I liked I think that was the whole idea behind how the Vulcans looked in the past was kind of that Flash Gordon element. That's a great call.
01:18:50
Speaker
We're agreement then, I think. ah yeah I actually had, i I probably switched them, but I basically had Jillian Blaylock as an incredible performance in this. Not necessarily went for it as per se, but she is so good as both Tamir and T'Pol.
01:19:06
Speaker
her as And she does this throughout, but she was particularly good with just her facial expressions were good. Spot on. You could tell exactly what she was thinking, exactly when she was getting frustrated and exactly when she made the decision to fuck with them as to as to Paul. It was great. She's not acting anymore. She did appear in a guest like a cameo for Lower Decks and she's just going by Jolene now. So I want to mention that.
01:19:33
Speaker
Even though T'Pol and Tamir are very, very similar characters, you could still tell there were like little things in her performance where you could tell like when she's playing T'Pol and when she's playing Tamir.
01:19:47
Speaker
um She makes them two completely unique characters, despite the fact that just in general, a lot of Vulcans tend to be kind of similar because of their emotionallessness. Yeah, I just appreciated how she's clearly dying of starvation and and dehydration and the way she gulps that water and she's so strong.
01:20:07
Speaker
All these little things, these little details, um I just appreciate i thought it. thought great. I also liked the depiction that There are different Vulcans. Yes. The only thing we've seen is the hegemony of the militaristic Vulcans that we've seen in Enterprises. Like, no, this guy disagrees. We need to They're all pretty uninteresting until this episode, yeah except for T'Pol, and then until this episode, really.
01:20:28
Speaker
All right. ah Shoot to Thrill, most exciting image or sequence? ah Maria. Maria. ah at the very beginning, the Vulcan ship going down. Like, them running around, trying to figure it out, and then the actual, like, all of the like the external shots, and then, like, the the trees shaking as the as the ship goes down. I thought it was very cool. that was their shit Their ship looked so weird. It looked like a tick.
01:20:54
Speaker
Yeah, it was weird. We've seen the Vulcans... We've seen the Vulcan ships before and they had that big ring around them. So it was very weird to see that ship. Jamie, do you agree or do you have a different um sequence? I was going to say the explosion in the mine when they're just like in the mine and chatting. And then there was an explosion and everyone's like running around and it's dark and there's smoke. That was that was little ah just tiny, exciting action scene.
01:21:19
Speaker
but Bill? Yeah. It was the scene in the pool game, um the proposition for the pool game, where T'Pol basically, or sorry, Tamir, basically turns around and goes like,
01:21:33
Speaker
I'll have to interact with him. just Socialize. That was it. I've never related more. 100% felt that.
01:21:44
Speaker
It's like anytime I walk into a new situation, it's like, hey. Oh, God. That is kind of the underlying theme of this episode is extroverts versus introverts. love that.
01:21:57
Speaker
So we all have a answer for this because I just put when T'Pol and Mestral walk into town. So after they've stolen the clothes and it's all the way to when they walk into the bar and it ends on the act out of everyone turning and looking at them being like, who are these strangers?
01:22:12
Speaker
So I just
Starfleet Academy Curriculum and Lifespan Humor
01:22:13
Speaker
appreciated that because... you described the episode, but then watching it in real time and they're doing the city on the edge of forever stuff where they're stealing the clothes off the clothesline. And I'm like, they're walking through town. They're making all their comments about trying to understand. It's like, they, are they ah slaves or whatever? And like, no, they're like, and I was like, they're doing it.
01:22:32
Speaker
They're doing it. They're just doing star Trek time travel. We're doing it. It's not time travel. It's I'm seeing you. I'm like, but they're doing it. They're interacting with the primitive culture. I'm i'm so happy. ah So great. That,
01:22:43
Speaker
I like when episodes can give us multiple answers. They all feel pretty strong. Mine's the weakest, which are all great. ah What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? Jamie. I mean, technically it is canon that they are not teaching this at Starfleet Academy.
01:22:56
Speaker
I mean, in the episode, they specifically mentioned that. But ah maybe they should, since apparently the Vulcans do know about it. It feels right now like Starfleet Academy is is teaching an alternative history version of First Contact, I guess.
01:23:15
Speaker
They're teaching the Columbus Day version of history right now. ah Bill, do you agree? oh have different ones Oh, yeah, no, I completely, like, how to, so like, if you crash land on a primitive planet and you think rescue might be coming, because I know that they have protocols like, we've time traveled and you need to fuck off and go off the grid.
01:23:38
Speaker
But no, this is completely like, here's how you do minimal damage while you're raiding for rescue. um i wish they had shown scenes of them destroying their ship to make sure that nobody had found them. But yeah, I wondered about that too, but I, she's telling a story so I can kind of go with it. Yeah.
01:23:55
Speaker
Yeah. How to, how to blend in with the natives. Maria, same thing? I have the same thing. What to do in a Carbon Creek situation? Because that was exactly what they said in Lordeck. In a Carbon Creek situation, we know what to You don't know if you're getting rescued or not, or you're waiting, or you're stuck.
01:24:17
Speaker
The thing to do is to just make sure you blend in as much as possible and don't draw attention to yourself. And I think that definitely would be taught. at starf And that it's it's far too far too grim for this series. But like the situation is do you disintegrate yourself rather than, you know, affect this?
01:24:34
Speaker
They kind of talked about it like, well, what what what happens when we die? Like, are they going to find they're going to find three corpses that they're going to have figure out what the heck that was? Well, that's part of it. Yeah. And Trip brings that up. So when he died, the autopsy just ignored that. Yeah. I really want to know what happened to. would love to know what happened to Mistral. I think it'd be. Yeah. He could still be alive at, at, at like the enterprise time in the enterprise timeline. He could have been at the launch. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
01:25:06
Speaker
for sure ah So mine's kind of adjacent to all that because it's just taking idea of prime directive type stuff. And I think I mentioned this before. ah You know, we can't interfere with the natural evolution of a society. If an asteroid is meant to hit it, it's meant to hit it.
01:25:22
Speaker
And my point is, I'm sure there's always a debate about this because it's like, well, isn't the natural evolution of their planet like we're here? Maybe if we weren't here, that's natural evolution too. But look, guess what? It turns out a spaceship was passing through their solar system at the time that they needed help. would it Is it unethical for us to let... This isn't fate. Fate is us being here as much as that asteroid is colliding with them. So ah the mind rescue is, I think, in that vein.
01:25:51
Speaker
And he's completely right. He's like, well, let's make sure they don't see us use this the future technology. That is the exact approach that you should have. were Bill? No, I liked that debate was like, Tamir was like, these humans are obviously going to kill themselves. There's world like, and we as people living now is like, well, we didn't destroy ourselves. We're still here.
01:26:12
Speaker
But in the Star Trek timeline, there is a third world war that is about to happen. um what article wide yes yeah exactly. And Mastral changed his name to Mastral Noonien Soong and helped the humans develop the technology. that' That's a Star Trek Picard season four idea, I'm sure. but Along those lines, she also then adds, they also only live 60 or 70 years. All you'd be doing is prolonging their lives a couple more years. The big the first instance of what to rip. That was real
Critique of 'Enterprise' and Chemistry
01:26:45
Speaker
cold. It was so cold. It's so cold-blooded. Maybe that's what the journals that her second foremother left for her was like, humans only live this. you don't really It's like a cat.
01:26:58
Speaker
It dies, you get another one. It dies, you get another one. But we needed that change because this all precedes her then getting money to get the to get Jack off to college.
01:27:11
Speaker
Excuse me. Oh, yeah sorry. yeah Jack off to college. I was sitting the floor for it. I'm getting the as constructed in my head. Here we go. The last thing that I did ah that I thought was it she just talking about teaching that made me think about it is do we think that – that T'Pol intentionally told them this particular story to get them thinking about a prime directive, because she's clearly trying to get them to get to a prime directive. She keeps sort of hinting at it in different episodes. And I feel like here's an example of what could have happened, except that they broke it.
01:27:47
Speaker
So it doesn't really make that much a sense. Yeah. Just getting them to consider thinking about things before they do them. That might be her bigger... Yeah, that would be great. but yeah Could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better, Jamie?
01:28:03
Speaker
Enterprise needs to stop with the horniness. They do not do horny well. They do it very, very badly. It comes off only as laughable and they just... ah they like We just did not need the nipple. We...
01:28:19
Speaker
Enterprise does not need to be horny. Less horny Enterprise, please. If we did snippets from the recording as our intro headlines, that would be it. We did
Vulcan Dynamics and Undercover Living
01:28:31
Speaker
not need them. Do you individually title these episodes? Because it should be, we do not need the nipples. Let's start featuring Enterprise Splitting.
01:28:41
Speaker
um With the exception of in Desert Crossing, the the Space Lacrosse ah Top Gun scene, that one we can keep. All others get rid of it.
01:28:55
Speaker
You too. i think it could have been hornier. I don't remember Desert Crossing. I think this one could have been hornier if Mestrel and were... If that chemistry was better, the chemistry was not bad. The actors were both great.
01:29:09
Speaker
If it had been written a little bit more towards Mestral actually having to restrain something and, and she could sense it or she was into it and maybe whatever, I think a little more, a little hotter and heavier would have been fine in that moment. And I think it would have made it better because I think we needed the audience to play both sides at all times when she's like oh you're want to stay for one person in particular and he's like well not just her like not because of her i want to stay and i think that would have been more interesting by being less convincing if we had seen like a real spark between them where maybe we were even kind of rooting for them to be together so um that's all
01:29:51
Speaker
Go ahead, Ma. I was, sort of kept, y'all, I've watched this episode now like four times because between our our show and the show, but I don't know if it's just me, but it felt a little bit like Tamir was a little jealous.
01:30:07
Speaker
Like Tamir had a thing for Mr. All. And he wanted to be with him. And if you read it that way, a lot of a lot of things kind of make a little bit more sense, like the fact that she helped him with the miners and the fact that she sort of brought that compassion into you know what she believed because she had feelings for him and understood him.
01:30:31
Speaker
And I actually think the fact that he was like, yeah, I really like Maggie, but this has not got anything to do with Maggie. I'm not staying in Carbon Creek. I really want to know more about these humans.
01:30:42
Speaker
was kind of interesting. So, I mean, yeah, I think it could have generally been hornier, but I don't think it would have been better. I actually don't. I think there were a few places, including i was really waiting and expecting some townsperson to go after Tamir.
01:30:58
Speaker
And I was actually quite happy that it didn't happen. Oh, you mean like an assault? Okay. Well, not an assault, but like, a I mean, just a very, like, aggressive okay trying to be with her. and it could have been yeah yeah And there were two guys who both were like definitely into her and interested, but as soon as they realized she was not, they backed off, which I appreciated because you don't see that a lot in Enterprise. You just don't.
01:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, consent in this show. I did not know the writers knew about that. Yeah. Yeah. ah Rick Berman's like, well, this was before consent.
01:31:42
Speaker
We're in a free consent society. yeah That's right. Picard came up with consent. Consent and then warp drives. yeah This episode could have been, I have a, this gets into my fix for this episode, which is that only Mastral and Tamir exist.
01:31:58
Speaker
They are the only two. And when they ask, are you married? They say yes. So they have to live together as a couple. Ah, yeah. And then it's the two of them, they don't know if they're gonna be rescued, and it becomes this issue of, do they have to live together?
01:32:13
Speaker
Are they – eventually one of them is going to go through Pon Far. Maybe that happens in – maybe this episode takes place over several years rather than six months.
01:32:24
Speaker
And it becomes – because fucking Tamir staring at them from a street corner as he kisses another one. You are having intimate connotations. That is 100%. Intimate activities. Intimate activities that is so like and if it's just the two of them and they are the only survivors from this but that is a hundred percent And then it changes. i like and then yeah I like the idea of them having to like feign affection, like physical affection for each other in front of other humans to like seem convincing.
01:32:59
Speaker
That's the really fucking weird part about this episode is like, no, he's my business associate. But this woman and these two men are living together in a small apartment in rural Pennsylvania in the nineteen their business is never interrogated now maybe that's a thing where it's like it's none of my business like i can believe that but it is interesting that like jake or jack's like i built this thing aren't you like business people entrepreneurs like it never gets questioned again there's a there's a bad time travel trope are you married and one of them says yes and the other one says no and then the other one says yes and the other one says no
01:33:35
Speaker
We're engaged. a bit I love that they're like, our car broke down, so now we just have to live here for the rest of our lives. They've got to make enough money to earn their way out. yeah All right, so Trek, Marry, or Kill Carbon Creek.
01:33:51
Speaker
Maria, you can kick us off.
Debate on 'Carbon Creek' Episode Quality
01:33:53
Speaker
I'm going to Trek with this one. I think it was it was one I think might have been the first episode ah or maybe the second episode of Enterprise that I could say, this is good Trek.
01:34:05
Speaker
This is good, well done. very like I felt like I was watching Star Trek. It was good. Bill. I'm going to go Trek as well. It was narratively competent. It had a beginning, middle, and end. And it's a really weird that it didn't feature most of the cast.
01:34:26
Speaker
Yeah. is It is widely considered to be one of the best episodes of Enterprise, and it involves none of the main cast in the main storyline.
01:34:39
Speaker
Not going to draw any lines there, but take that as you will. Jamie, how about you? Yeah, this this was so hard for me to say because we've been watching Enterprise for the past year and I feel like it's given me this like warped view about what a good episode is.
01:34:54
Speaker
I was like, this was the best Trek episode I have ever seen. I had to like sit back and like think about it. Like some DS9. And yeah, i I would also put this in the Trek category.
01:35:07
Speaker
um For Enterprise, definitely, I would say the best episode that we've seen of Enterprise. ah One of the very few Enterprise episodes I can say I actually very much enjoyed.
01:35:19
Speaker
but um Yeah, when it compared to other compared to other Trek, it still just feels like it's like not it's not quite at like a good episode of like DS9 or like a good episode of Next Generation.
01:35:33
Speaker
all right. I'm going to be the outlier here on our very first episode of Trek, Marry, Kill. I told Kristen the story of how L. Ron Hubbard and Gene Roddenberry having a conversation and Gene Roddenberry got really mad because L. Ron Hubbard said, you fucked up, buddy.
01:35:46
Speaker
You should have made Star Trek a religion like I did Scientology. And so I've kind of held to this belief that Star Trek is a religion. I think a lot of it's got a lot of tenets, right? It's got a lot of, it's got a core belief system um and infinite diversity, and infinite combinations, the power of working together through common struggle, pursuing knowledge, seeking to improve ourselves. It's always relevant.
01:36:07
Speaker
And so I felt like watching this episode because I watch a lot of Star Trek, both just for leisure and for the show. So I watched this and i had to watch other ones. I came back to this one. And this was like finding a crucifix in a pile of dog shit.
01:36:20
Speaker
This to me is classic. Clearly a Mary, because I think like, not only is I'm going to be surprised if I see another episode of enterprise where I'm like, that was an amazing episode of enterprise. Like I legitimately having watched half the episodes at the time it aired and watching others in the time since or whatever. It's like,
01:36:40
Speaker
I never liked this show. And the fact that I missed this one. Okay. Would I have come into it? Maybe I would have been in your mindset where I'm like, well, if you watch it all in a row, you just get to this one. Like, Oh, that's great. But I like with all the time that's passed and all the other Trek that's come out that I've seen and watched. I'm like, no, this one, she's telling a story that fits the show.
01:36:58
Speaker
which is about her relationship with Archer and Trip. Then it's mirrored by the three Vulcans on Earth, right? It's the show that has none of the major characters in the show except for of them. Sure, but those three characters, it's about the the struggle between human and Vulcan. They're trying to re recreate the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic kind of of head like it's Ego, super ego, that kind of, if they're doing a bad job of it, we all agree, but they're trying to do the trifecta there. So it's really about this trio.
01:37:30
Speaker
And so, don't know, it seems like it's on story for the show, but it's on concept for Star Trek. And I think it's an interesting way of telling the Star Trek ideal story through Vulcans.
01:37:41
Speaker
which is the the most popular element that's survived in Star Trek in pop culture is this idea of Vulcans and the Klingons. Then I think it's like second, but i just thought it was interesting. I'm like astonished by Jolene's performance in this one.
01:37:54
Speaker
And i I just can't believe how, like you said, it's got be beginning, middle and end. Like there's no false notes in it. It just all felt like very like, oh wow, this was very hard for them to do clearly.
01:38:06
Speaker
Yeah. and if we're gonna like we've had get it's a trek you it's three to one so it's a trek but like for me the reason why i'm like well other guests we've we've named the musical episode strange new worlds of mary there's been other ones i'm like okay well what's the range here and like is the best episode of enterprise still just a trek or is it and like i have to compare it to other mary's city on the edge of forever and carbon creek probably not but like we've you know, it's a good, it's a great episode of star Trek. Like I would recommend this episode to people who are like 50 episodes into star Trek. i'm like, this could be your 51st episode.
01:38:42
Speaker
I would not do Jonathan Frakes. If I quantum leaped into Jonathan Frakes's body, Jamie, and to walk you through it, I would not have told you to start from the beginning. I would have told you to jump around, but this would not be an episode I would leave out. I would mention this episode.
01:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think it is if you are talking about the Enterprise universe, it's 100% Mary. Like, I think if you're just talking about Enterprise, it's absolutely a Mary. It is unbelievably good.
01:39:08
Speaker
But if you're talking about Star Trek in general, I think it is good Star Trek. It is great Enterprise.
What Makes a Good Trek Episode and Podcast Promotion
01:39:16
Speaker
And so I think it's that's why I say it's a Trek.
01:39:18
Speaker
Okay, here's, I have a thought. People, ah in my experience, people when people talk about, quote unquote, the best episodes of Trek or any any series, really, they tend to be the most unusual episode. Like Trouble with Tribbles is probably the best episode of the original series, but it's not the first episode you should watch.
01:39:42
Speaker
It's the episode that shows you what this show could do. Like, it's the... What's the weird episode of X-Files where they have the... um It's Charles Nelson Reilly, like, interviewing people about the X-Files investigation.
01:39:58
Speaker
Is it Jose Chung's From Outer Space? That might be. But that's the best episode of X-Files. But that's not the first episode you should watch. um Yeah. So, maybe this is... God, we still have...
01:40:10
Speaker
two and three quarter seasons to go on this show. Is this the best episode we're going to see? Well, this is my point. I have seen season four of Enterprise and that's why I'm like, I missed this one. I missed a pretty significant chunk.
01:40:24
Speaker
But I also think to you to that point, they could not have gotten to this episode had they not done so much other Star Trek, not just Enterprise, but Star Trek. We started this off by saying like this episode only really matters to people who have been watching Star Trek. Like, it requires you knowing so much about Star Trek just to get into it.
01:40:43
Speaker
But as a great episode of television off format, because that's another thing I use for Mary's, I'm like, this is a... I think you could watch this in a bubble. I think this is a really solid episode of television, and it's a great episode of Star Trek. So that's that.
01:40:57
Speaker
it's the It's the only episode we've seen so far of of Enterprise where ah because of our show, like usually I'm hearing about, what I'm hearing either Bill or Maria tell me about the episode first.
01:41:10
Speaker
And in every case, I feel like our descriptions, every case up till now, i think our descriptions of the episodes are more fun than the episode itself. The episode's always a good one.
01:41:23
Speaker
Except for this one. And that's not on Marie. Like, it wasn't that you did a bad job, Marie. You actually did great. It's just that it was actually a good episode. And when it's a good episode, you want to actually watch it, not hear about it from someone else.
01:41:37
Speaker
Yeah, and it was the hardest episode i have had to write the script for. Like, it's really hard to write a script for Enterprise planning for an episode of Enterprise that's actually really good. I had no snark. I had such, like like was like, very little snark that I could contribute to it because I was like, yeah, this is cool.
01:41:59
Speaker
Well, hopefully this will get better from here or our podcast will be at the end. All right. Well, Enterprise Planning, you've heard them saying it for the whole hour or actually now we're almost at two hours. How about that? This is how it goes with us. Yeah. So it's biweekly, you said. What's the release schedule usually? Is it the first in the middle of the month? Let the people know where they can find you.
01:42:23
Speaker
biweekly right now. Well, we're fighting a temporal Cold War. so Yeah, so it's biweekly right now. We are going to actually, after the Carbon Creek episode, we are going to start switching it to weekly. And every other week is going to be a new Enterprise episode. And then in between, it's going to be us talking about the last episode.
01:42:44
Speaker
um But ah yeah, up until now, up until the Carbon Creek episode, it is biweekly. And is there anything else you want to plug social media or your own projects or charities?
01:42:57
Speaker
This one's going to come out on February 18th. I keep saying the end of the month, let it's coming out yeah for anybody listening. If you are like most Trek fans, either have not seen enterprise or all of it, or you just don't even really remember it.
01:43:09
Speaker
The nice thing about our podcast is you don't have to watch it. You don't have to be familiar. We actually have a lot of listeners who don't, have never seen an episode of enterprise and listen to our show every week. We will tell you everything that happened.
01:43:23
Speaker
And with the exception of this episode, with, with the exception of carbon Creek, um, I think our explanations are better.
01:43:34
Speaker
The nice thing about our review show is you don't have to watch star Trek enterprise.
01:43:41
Speaker
um But we are on social media um on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram. It's Enterprise Splaining everywhere. think Blue Sky were Enterprise Splaining because it was it was too long.
01:43:53
Speaker
They wouldn't let us do the full name. But yeah. Well, I'm so glad. Thank you, all three of you, for coming on. I really appreciate This is a lot of fun, Jamie, Maria, Bill. Jamie and i exchanged.
01:44:06
Speaker
I was like worried that the amount of email exchanges she was just being like, can't he just stop replying? Just take the information. But then it seems like we agreed that we both need to work this way to make it work. So it'll it all was happy ending. But this took a bit to set up, but it was worth it.
01:44:24
Speaker
It's been great. that We really appreciate being on here and we really appreciate you coming on our show too. It's been so much fun. Yeah. I feel like we need to have you back carp carpenter street.
01:44:36
Speaker
I'd be happy to finally start our facts of life podcast. i'd be happy to finally start our facts of life podcast you can be back to discuss. Where it intersects with the Vulcan interference. And our episode on Carbon Creek is scheduled for April 10th.
01:44:56
Speaker
So it's... point it's coming up It's right But it it will be there. So... So check that out. We're TrekMerryKpod on social media, trekmerrykillpod.com on the web, where you can see all of our standings, Treks, Marys, and Kills for each show.
01:45:12
Speaker
Be sure to rate and review us wherever you listen, if you feel so inclined. And so until next week, when we conclude Inner Lights Month with the Paradise Syndrome from the original series, TMK out.