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Young Justice: Phantoms: S4 Ep 21 Odyssey of Death!
712 Plays3 years ago
As Young Justice: Phantoms closes out it's Rocket and New Genesis focused arc, Andrew and J Scotty are back to offer their thoughts and reactions to the eventful and impactful 21st episode as well as address some listen feedback!
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Transcript
Magical Celebration at Disney World
00:00:00
Speaker
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Podcast Introduction and Ads
00:00:30
Speaker
On another exciting entry of Animation Deliberation, we continue our coverage of Young Justice Phantoms, Young Justice Season 4, tackling Episode 21, Odyssey of Death. And we'll be getting right into that after some ads we have no say over whatsoever. You're invited to take a vacation.
00:00:47
Speaker
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Discussion Kick-off: Young Justice Series
00:01:27
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah. Okay folks, welcome back to animation deliberation, the podcast that takes action animation and cartoons seriously, but not too seriously. I'm Jay Scottie St. Clair, and I am joined by the stalwart, Andrew Rogers.
Absent Host and Lantern Rings Arc
00:01:54
Speaker
Good to have you here, buddy. How you doing?
00:01:55
Speaker
Fantastic as always, even if a little bit misty eyed as we've closed out another wonderful, wonderful arc here. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. And if for anyone that's been listening to our Young Justice coverage so far as particularly this rocket arc or new Genesis arc, however you want to call it, we are a member shy. We are missing Zuhair.
00:02:18
Speaker
Zuhair, we didn't know who it was going to be, but one of us had to be entrusted with a lantern, a ring. So he is off to Owa, receiving his training from Kilowog as we speak.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, I just have a funny feeling he'll be back next week because I don't think he can handle the amount of times Forger is going to say her own name while he's on OA. So he's probably going to say no to that duty from here on out. Yeah, it might drive him a little a little crazy. I could see that totally.
Listener Feedback and Green Lantern Lore
00:02:48
Speaker
OK, so as mentioned, we are going to be covering episode 21 Odyssey of Death.
00:02:54
Speaker
before we get into the nitty gritty there we did get a few pieces of feedback from the last couple of weeks here so we're going to tackle those up top and andrew you have those pulled up for us correct i do and we have a couple of them and i'm gonna kinda. Try and group them together because some people did say some similar things so i'm gonna start off first we had an email come in from eric cup as.
00:03:16
Speaker
He said, hello animation pandas. I don't know if this was sent in the episode with Razor. You stated you were not familiar with the character and that you hoped that we would get an expansion at a later date. There is a full series discussing the character. Cartoon Network produced Green Lantern, the animated series from March 2012 to 2013.
00:03:34
Speaker
during which Razor was introduced and goes into a full explanation of who he is, what he was looking for. And although they haven't watched it, they did mention that it is only one season, so it might even be worth a podcast. And I honestly don't totally disagree. If we get some downtime after Young Justice, it would be a great thing. And yeah, from Eric said, hope that this fills in the gap.
00:03:55
Speaker
And I figured this was good feedback to include in case you missed our feedback episode, where we did talk about this a little bit outside of just Young Justice. We had some feedback in that episode where we did talk about reason.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah. Lots of fans of razor out there. And I'm totally open to the possibility of doing an episode covering the animated series. I was actually ignorant to the fact that it only lasted the one season. It seemed like it was very celebrated and it's short run. So I was just under the impression that it lasted for at least two or three seasons, but just based on this feedback and a little bit of research there, yeah, it was the only, the one season 26 episodes. So I could definitely see us, you know, maybe doing that in a single episode.
00:04:34
Speaker
Maybe a couple of episodes, depending on how the story's broken up there. But yeah, we were talking about content overload in terms of the beginning of the summer here. But as I recall the way last summer worked, we might hit a lull towards the end of June, early July, and maybe that'll be a nice time to fit a series like that or some of the other ones we've often discussed, like looking back to the backlog of some of our favorite shows.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, we've got enough going on, but all the DC shows just are generally short-lived, but very loved.
Emerald Eye of Ekron Insights
00:05:03
Speaker
So we have plenty of things to talk about when it comes to those. Certainly. And getting into our next feedback, this was to answer a bit of a question that we had. And I'm going to read two of these emails because they basically both give us an answer. We had one come in from Fabian and one come in from our great TJ Stafford.
00:05:22
Speaker
And TJ said, fun fact, he's never read a comic. Everything he knows is from TV and movies, which is awesome because I asked him from his comic knowledge to give us an answer. But it turns out there isn't comic knowledge, which is just super fun. And yeah, coming from all of that, he recognized the eye that we were asking the question about in the last episode as a tool used by the fatal five recurring foes of the Legion of Superheroes.
00:05:46
Speaker
The character's name is the Emerald Empress and the eye, which should be a little bit smaller apparently, is the Emerald Eye of Ekron. It apparently has power similar to a Green Lantern Ring and was an early prototype according to some brief research.
00:06:02
Speaker
The only reason that they didn't immediately acknowledge this is it was only one episode of Justice League Unlimited, and there was also mention of this character in Justice League versus the Fatal Five. Interesting. And Fabian basically tacks on with, it's exactly that, the Emerald Eye of Ekron, and it is a main weapon of the Emerald Empress, which again is a villain of the Legion of Superheroes.
00:06:26
Speaker
and was created by the Guardians of the Universe, which is a whole other kind of can of worms of how they're going to be involved as well because they're the ones I believe that have created all of the lantern rings. So there's so many interweaving things between those two feedback emails, especially because we didn't get these answers this week. I expected them to come back.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was too significant a scene. I wouldn't even call it like an Easter egg. It was just too pointed the fact that we watched Lord Zod take this thing. It has to be coming back in some way. And knowing that we're dealing with the Legion of Superheroes so much this season and in retrospect last season as well, I have to imagine it's going to come back in a big way. But it's awesome to get those answers so quickly. And the insight there like TJ, I don't know if you're saying you never read a comic or if all this knowledge comes from
00:07:14
Speaker
elsewhere other than comics, but if that's the case, you're putting me to shame because I've read a handful of comics, but I guess my recall is just not there.
Timeline Clarifications and Superboy's Role
00:07:21
Speaker
I've been reading the wrong comics, but yeah, it sounds really cool that it's kind of like a precursor to The Lantern Ring itself, and I can't help but make comparisons to kind of like the Eye of Agamotto in the Marvel world with Doctor Strange, especially in the MCU carnation. It's so tied to the time stone in that green color.
00:07:39
Speaker
scheme there. I'm really excited to see it be utilized and hopefully deliver some pretty impactful action and visuals. For sure. And we had our one last email also coming in from Fabian. It says, just finished the podcast, great per usual. From my understanding, since the Zods were released and live during the time of the Legion of Super Heroes, the Zods are aware of who Superboy is since Connor was the Legion's inspiration. I took, quote, playing the long game,
00:08:07
Speaker
as them manipulating Superboy until they either killed him or used him against either Superman to erase the existence of the Legion. Thanks again, and since you asked... Oh, his name was Fabian. Also, that was another thing I wanted to call out. I meant to read this email first. We were saying Fabian. I apologize. Fabian is the name that we will use from here on out. And I'm glad we got some clarification, because if we didn't get this email, I was more confused about the timeline after this episode.
00:08:37
Speaker
as to how they related because there was still that moment of confusion with, oh, he didn't get sent to the Phantom Zone. It felt like they still didn't know who he was. Right, right. And I was going to say that email is like the perfect segue to just go ahead and start talking about the episode and some of the things that happened. But I'm willing, I'm fully willing to admit that I was wrong and you were right. I just assumed that the Phantom Zone existed outside of time. But I guess it makes sense that Lorzod would be traveling back in time to retrieve his parents before they even ever faced.
00:09:07
Speaker
the Legion of Superheroes given the fact that they're interacting with the, quote unquote, present day heroes that we know and love. And I'll also apologize. I think I took the lead on pronouncing Fabian's name as Fabian. So thank you for the clarification there, Fabian.
00:09:21
Speaker
And that was exactly why we asked. And also, you don't have to apologize, Jay Scottie, because I was the one proven wrong. I think Zuhair was the one that had the timeline right, of all things, out of the three of us with what was going on with the Zods. I believe it was Zuhair. I know it was not me. I was very on it that they wouldn't know who he was. So this clarification does clear up a little bit of that. And that's why it's so much fun to have multiple hosts.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But that moment I was referring to that you kind of alluded to as well, that took place in this episode of all the things that happened, a lot of action. I was really satisfied with the action, but yeah, there was that moment where Lorsod got his hands on the Phantom Zone projector and called out specifically to retrieve General Druzod. And as he was being pulled up kind of tractor beam style into the portal that opens on New Genesis, Superboy grabbed onto him and tried to pull him back.
00:10:13
Speaker
Which side note, it's just kind of interesting. Of course, we saw Superboy kneel before Zod previously, but I was a little surprised at just how quickly he became indoctrinated and how loyal he was to Zod already. But anyway, as he's being pulled up, we already saw it with Ursa, the
00:10:29
Speaker
projector kind of reject her because it wasn't her genetic code that was called out specifically. But then, yeah, Zod has that moment where Superboy is not being recognized at all. So it kind of clicks and you see the light bulb go off on his head. You were not imprisoned during your time on Krypton. You come from somewhere else. So therefore, he did not know exactly who Superboy was, even if he did recognize him as a Kryptonian or even as a part of the House of Elle, potentially.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I think this is going to be a continuing storyline outside of our arc structure that in this upcoming arc, we're going to explore the repercussions of them still being trapped in the Phantom Zone, what that looks like. Now you have Phantom Girl is awake, thanks to Saturn Girl. So there's going to be so many more moving pieces going on in the background that
00:11:20
Speaker
I don't know how they're gonna take it but there's gonna be possible conflict in this space where the mind is the most powerful yeah i'm hoping now that phantom girl seems to be conscious we saw her eye open when saturn girl called out to her hopefully she can.
00:11:36
Speaker
debrain wash or free superboy from his brainwashing and that'll probably very much put him at odds with the remaining Kryptonians there that are very loyal to Zod, including Zod himself because he actually did not make it through the portal.
Forager and Rocket's Character Growth
00:11:51
Speaker
He got destroyed. How was it destroyed again? I'm trying to remember the I they bio ship shot the
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, that's right. That's right. Projector on the orders of chameleon boy. Right, right. And there was that moment where Saturn girl kind of had that moment of realization and it was, she didn't want it to happen, but it was too late by that point in time. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
00:12:14
Speaker
And I'm going to use this as a segue point. I thought that you were going to be correct, seeing the willpower of them trying to escape the Phantom Zone, that while that projector hole was closing and the unfortunate loss of the Green Lantern Tomar Ray. Fun fact voiced by the amazing Deep Bradley Baker. Oh, nice.
00:12:38
Speaker
When that ring was lost and was finding a new host, I thought you were going to be 100% correct. And General Druzod was going to pop out of the hole, snag the ring, and just be like, all right, let's go. So it was a big subversion of expectations. But the whole time I was
00:12:55
Speaker
I was not expecting that, but there were so many ways that it could have gone with that slow motion, everything happening at the exact same time. It was a really well done scene, but I wanted to give you credit that you planted that seed so perfectly. I was cursing you out as usual. You get that right, and I don't like it.
00:13:17
Speaker
Not you being right, just what happened. That's funny. No, I subverted my own expectations. Even with the mountain forager, the female forager's hand kind of breaking free and becoming more stable in the throws of the pain that the Kaiser Thrall induces, it didn't click to me until I saw the ring flying right onto her finger and it was just so unexpected.
00:13:42
Speaker
Not disappointed though, it's kind of comical in a way to see one of these new Genesis bugs wielding the ring and I hope we follow her storyline a little bit as heartbreaking as it is for
00:13:52
Speaker
forager that we know he's kind of feels like he's had two breakups this season the first being by our ship and now with forager it's i i didn't want to care about these characters because it's forager and i feel that i was misty eyed and the moment that almost broke it from misty eyed to actual tears was the little breakup of or not breakup of forager and forager but the
00:14:18
Speaker
Maybe we should do long distance. Let me hand over my Shakespeare book. That was the point that I almost lost it, that there was this through line of Forager and Shakespeare that I was like, this can't be sweet and romantic. They're bugs. Yeah, we heard Forager quoting Shakespeare, I believe it was Romeo and Juliet a couple of episodes ago, if not the last episode. And then the end credit scene for this one was the Mountain Forager quoting Hamlet.
00:14:45
Speaker
back to Forager. So one of the writers definitely or one of the voice actors definitely loves their Shakespeare and maybe appeared in like a production or two I have to imagine. There's been an interesting through line of the literature involved in all of these arcs and the titles of the episodes being very poetically grouped together for each arc.
00:15:10
Speaker
I really cannot wait to see what we get in this final arc and then just be able to look back at the season and put together all of these points about where the literature is coming from, how it applies to these characters, how the titles of the episodes. It feels like there's so many Easter egg notes that are outside of just the writers, but suddenly the people who are in charge of these things.
00:15:34
Speaker
that we wouldn't think of being a post credit scene or being animation, being titling, that they're putting little seeds in there for us. It feels like the team as a whole on this show did a really good job with all of these notes. Yeah, I agree. And speaking of the entire creative effort coming to make a satisfying whole,
00:15:55
Speaker
I've felt a little mixed on this arc as a whole. It's definitely done a lot to do a lot of world building and give us insight into new Genesis a little bit more so and Kirby's fourth world as a whole. But I found this conclusion to be very, very satisfying, especially with the action. Maybe it didn't reach the heights of the Atlantean arc for me, but I remember at one point just
00:16:17
Speaker
The two forager bugs going up against Mantis, Tomar Ray flying around, fighting Lorzod while trying to contain this sudden Promethean that was arising from the Earth, dispelling fire into the atmosphere. Jay Garrick's flash being zipping around and being tied up by the Kaiser Thrall and whatnot.
00:16:38
Speaker
Just really, really well executed, well paced. I didn't have a difficult time at all tracking the action. And it's kind of funny, we've talked about Forager at length already, but one of the highlights for me is when Forager was able to take out Mantis and give that shout out to his training with Nightwing. I knew you would appreciate that.
00:16:55
Speaker
No, I loved that because we kind of, or I at least, I can't necessarily speak for everyone in the audience. I forgot that Forager was an inept bug at the start of Season 3. He just didn't know what he was doing. And this whole arc, he has been somewhat intelligent. He has been ahead of the curve fighting the battles that he needs to.
Resilience Against Mental Manipulation
00:17:15
Speaker
And beginning of Season 3, Forager would not have done that, but because of his growth with the team, with the Outsiders, it was really cool. I mean, cooler because he called out Nightwing, but even without that specific call out, it was an awesome note that he has come really far and did not hesitate to protect the Mountain Forager.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, I guess he's gotten a lot of confidence since becoming the valedictorian for his graduating class. I did think it was interesting why we got so much physical action, and I do want to speak a little bit more to Tomar Ray and his sacrifice and just getting to see the ring power used in such fantastic ways.
00:17:56
Speaker
I did want to talk a little bit about Rocket and Orion's face off against Malphalek. I've been a little on the fence about the treatment of Rocket's character. It kind of felt like this was supposed to be her arc. We've had this introduction showing us these core six, is it six or seven members? Six. Six, okay, I thought six.
00:18:17
Speaker
Wait, I think it's seven because McGann and Superboy had their arc together, so there's six arcs, seven characters. Okay, that makes sense. If I'm counting correctly. Let's just go off real quick. We got Nightwing, Superboy, McGann, Aqualad,
00:18:34
Speaker
Tigris, Zatanna, Tigris, and Rocket. Okay, that makes sense. Okay, cool. Watch us have repeated one and not realized. That's what the magic of editing is. Speaking of magic, we'll get back to a certain magical character that we just mentioned in a little while. But yeah, with Rocket, it was, I guess I would have liked the opportunity for her
00:19:01
Speaker
her action to have been like maybe take place in the physical realm, but I guess her entire struggle this whole time has been more of a intellectual and philosophical one with her relationship with her own son and these negotiations and her outlook on Orion and
00:19:18
Speaker
In that case, Malphalek was the perfect foe for them. It was kind of like you had Mantis going up against the bugs, and he finally got taken out. And then Lorzad was the perfect opponent for Tomare with his previous dealings with Kryptonians.
00:19:34
Speaker
And then yeah, that leaves my alpha lek and he is the mental foe. We don't have Simon around. So he's really progressed kind of followed in his sister's footsteps in terms of, you know, using the mental plane as a place to kind of like potentially torment people.
00:19:51
Speaker
No, McGann had her time around season two where she was kind of in a dark place, but it was just really fitting to have Rocket have that moment of clarity where she realized she was being manipulated. She knew that wasn't right. We had dealt with light ray before, but he was just saying he is the spawn of dark seed. You have to contain him and keep him locked up. And I didn't realize
00:20:12
Speaker
At that point in time, if Orion and Rocket were seeing the same thing or not, if that was actually Rocket trying to beat his way out of the projection bubble there, or at the end of the episode, I still didn't have 100% of the answers. I kind of wondered, did he get to see into Rocket's mind a little bit and see some of her insights and know what she was dealing with because he had that acknowledgement? Thank you for seeing me. It seemed like it was a little bit more pointed and there was more meaning behind that. He knew some of her struggles.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would take it just on the context of what usually happened in McGahn's visions, wherein everyone was kind of put into a similar.
00:20:49
Speaker
mental simulation call it. That's basically my ala falak had tricked Orion into going back into this place as well as tricking rocket into pretend you're back in that place and you have to relive this entirely. And then I assumed my ala falak himself was the Ray.
00:21:10
Speaker
Basically in her ear that was kind of my assumption I was actually waiting for her to kind of put a blast on the ray and have it turn out to be my ala falak it turned out different but that was how I read the situation and it just
00:21:27
Speaker
I totally agree with what you're saying that there was so much meaning going into their interaction at the end. And it just was a really nice way to round out the entirety of the character, what it was looking like. And we had some speculation earlier in the arc as to whether or not Orion was also autistic, similar to her son. Right. I really liked that they did not feel the need to answer that question.
00:21:54
Speaker
Right that that it was instead he is just a person going through what he is he had a weird upbringing he is dark side son. Everyone goes through different things in their life that makes them the way that they are. And i think that is an even bigger step that rocket had to see.
00:22:10
Speaker
Not the same exact mirrored problems as she was going through she just had to see that everyone has a different way of dealing with things. You have to see them you have to trust them and you have to. Attempt to feel what they're feeling that's exactly what she did in the mental simulation and then it. Obviously came full circle at the end with her seeing on the side.
00:22:29
Speaker
It was a nicer way of doing it than having to be this Grandois battle scene to get her to her answer.
Heroic Sacrifice and Emotional Impact
00:22:35
Speaker
It was it was much more poetic in nature. And I think the only thing that I do agree with you, I wish we had more of her during her own arc, figuring all of this out. I wish it wasn't. All right. Pitch the problem in the first episode of the arc, solve the problem in the last episode. I wish we had a little bit more than the sprinkling of the occasional notes that they were getting along better through the couple extra episodes.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said, and I think that you're right on the money in terms of how it played out. Yeah, thinking about the battles in the mental plane that we'd seen previously and some of the real world ramification those had, I think you're right on the money.
00:23:14
Speaker
With all that mention of, you know, intellectualization and poetic justice, no pun intended there, it was great and very satisfying to once they kind of broke free of the mental plane and Orion was still kind of in his kind of rage fit. It's just kind of fitting that he's the dog of war and I felt like Rocket had the leash and kind of like pointed him directly towards Lorsod and then he just got to have that nice satisfying beat down.
00:23:42
Speaker
on Lorsod and we saw how fatal Lorsod's heat vision, laser vision can be previously with Tomahoe, but just to see Orion take one right to the chest and not really faze him and just go to town was pretty epic. Yeah, and it was an interesting moment that they didn't have to communicate what their next move was going to be. He went red in the eyes, jumped at Lorsod, and I think he even shouted, now, and Rocket put the bubble around them.
00:24:10
Speaker
like they have to communicate what the now was they didn't have to you know strategize they just figured each other out and said hey wait this kind of worked before do it again. It's one of those awesome people who are great at their skill whether it be martial arts magic or technology i guess is what rocket is using that's one thing i wish i wish we got more of what her power set was they
00:24:35
Speaker
didn't ever explain anything outside of she had the belt and that was really it.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah, but but yeah, it shows that she's really good at using what she has despite us not knowing quite what that is. Yeah, I wish I had the wiki pulled up so I could see exactly what her technology is called. I think like maybe back in like season one or two, we got like a very quick shout out to where her power comes from it, but it wasn't explained in full. We were just given kind of maybe a name like the something orbs or what have you.
00:25:06
Speaker
I can't really remember. Yeah, it was great to see that teamwork come together in such a satisfying way. But I would like to circle back to Tomar Ray. It's been a while since we've, I mean, besides Superboy, his apparent death there, it's been a while since we've had a death. And I have to say, having spent such a little amount of time with Tomar Ray,
00:25:31
Speaker
they really made it work and it felt significant and I was moved and you know just the few lines of dialogue he had about failing Krypton previously and
00:25:42
Speaker
him using his ring, using his willpower to try and create this vent that was exhausting the Prometheans, just fiery breath off into the atmosphere, finding a way to exhaust it so it wasn't burning up the atmosphere, and him realizing, or the ring telling him that we can't keep the shield integrity that's protecting you from these lasers at your back and successfully exhaust these catastrophic flames, and he
00:26:08
Speaker
He knows what he has to do and he's just like, not again, I will not fail another planet. And just to see those beams rip through his chest and it was kind of beautiful that he got the acknowledgement before his eyes kind of closed and he fell down to earth or not earth, but to the ground. He got to know that he was successful in his mission. Yeah, I.
00:26:29
Speaker
I was really curious and I'm happy to hear you say that you felt endeared to this character as well. Because just from my time in comics and some of the cartoons, I have some exposure to the characters of Kilowog, Tomare, and some of the others. So I just felt endeared to see it'd be the same as a famous Transformer dying in a movie.
00:26:52
Speaker
I knew the Transformers growing up. I didn't care about them in that movie, but I still felt beat up. That's kind of how this felt to me. At first was very, I know these characters, how can young justice do this to us? And it's it's great that they can that they have the freedom to, you know, build this world where they have their own characters that live and die because it always is surprising you I did not see that coming. I was waiting for someone to save him.
Time Travel Theories and Show Cancellations
00:27:19
Speaker
for Kilowog to jump through a portal and save his good buddy Poozer. I was waiting for something like that and it just didn't happen. And it was heartfelt, poetic, and like you said, wonderful to know that he got to save the planet and know that he finally got that knowledge before the ring passed right off his feet.
00:27:42
Speaker
Right, right. And with the mention of Kilowog, just that still that they did where Kilowog was holding his body and just looking in just such agony. It's like with a monstrous face like that, it's difficult to convey a lot of emotion, but they totally sold on the utter heartbreak he was experiencing.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah, and once again, they're nodding toward possible events. That is the number one thing that I want to see happen in the remaining time we have this season, is Killua getting a moment to go toe to toe with Lorzod after saying we don't take kindly to one of our own dying. I want that moment of him just getting to go ham whenever they find out where Lorzod went and
00:28:26
Speaker
you know, make up for his lost, lost ally. Yeah, for sure. I definitely look forward to that as well. And it makes me kind of wonder about what the I had speculated previously about, you know, the potential for Lorsod being rehabilitated and perhaps recruited into our company of heroes, but after killing the Green Lantern, I don't know what the likelihood of that is. But you mentioned wherever he is. So we know that the time sphere
00:28:51
Speaker
is busted because of Mantis. As much as Mantis proved himself and even Lorsod acknowledged he had underestimated him, he did not do it correctly and therefore fried the time spheres. It makes me think of something. I don't think we mentioned it on our previous coverage at all when we talked about the bookend episodes where Bart Allen got caught up to speed, no pun intended there. But the whole reason they recruited him is to put a cosmic treadmill into bio-ship.
00:29:18
Speaker
Right. So now a bioship is capable of time travel as well. Is.
00:29:24
Speaker
Was it time travel or dimension travel? Oh, good question. I just assumed time travel. Because they I think the title card when we saw a bio ship going through some thing, I think it's a subspace or something along those lines. So I don't know if that was like a hyperdrive or some sort of, you know, similar to how boom tubes are like the only way to get to new Genesis. Is this a way that they could create their own
00:29:51
Speaker
subspace travel i'm not totally sure because i feel like interesting if they had the ability to time travel why not just go to a point in time when you know that you can hopefully fix this why instead go straight to
00:30:07
Speaker
New Genesis and Supertown where you're hoping or you have some idea that's where people are going to be to get the Phantom Zone projector. That's the only caveat I have thinking that it's probably not time travel. Okay. That's a totally fair point, but it just kind of makes me wonder. I thought that's how Bart Allen got to this timeline in the first place. We know that he's from the future. I thought he made use of a cosmic treadmill and he already had
00:30:35
Speaker
the knowledge of how to build one because of his time-traveling escapades. But you could be totally right. Yeah, it definitely seems like...
00:30:44
Speaker
new genesis and apocalypse. I think we know for a fact they're on another dimensional plane, apart from Earth anyway. I always just assume that Bart Allen did the usual time travel thing of running faster than the speed of light and going through the speed force and watch the flash if you're confused because it's only gonna get more confusing if I try and explain it.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's worth a watch anyway, at least those first two or three seasons. I kind of fell off around season four or so, but I actually think it's totally off subject here. But while we're talking about, I think I heard rumblings recently that the CW might be for sale. And I think we just recently got the news that Legends of Tomorrow was canceled after like seven seasons as well as Batwoman after four, I want to say.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, I believe both of those were canceled, and I'm hoping that HBO Max just picks up the pieces like they're known to do for any of the shows. I'm not up to pace with Legends of Tomorrow, but as weird as the CW shows are, they're all good in their own right. So DC knows what I have full confidence at DC as of late,
00:31:53
Speaker
We have Young Justice, The Batman, The Suicide Squad, 2021, 2022, whenever that like, all of the things that have come out since they did decide to cut ties after the Justice League incidents has just been good, including the show. So I think they're going to continue to do good things. So I trust the direction that they're going.
00:32:18
Speaker
Yeah, as do I. And my last little aside while we're on this little tangent here is with the mention of James Gunn, the Suicide Squad, and we got Peacemaker and there were
00:32:29
Speaker
rumblings out there that we'd be getting another show that was going to be to be a spinoff of one of those characters. I do believe it was confirmed that Viola Davis will be returning for an Amanda Waller series helmed by James Gunn. So definitely something excited for. I mean, excitement, but that sounds crazy. And, you know, we could tag on all of the Batman spinoff shows that they're, you know, tinkering with as well. I think they're just doing the Disney Plus thing at a better
00:32:58
Speaker
rate that they don't need to tie into movies, so let's just make them when we want them. Yeah, definitely.
00:33:06
Speaker
Well, uh, I know we're a little short on time as, uh, sad. That is to say with this particular episode, it would be really nice to wax and wane about all the ins and outs of this finale to this arc.
Zatanna's Quest for Superboy
00:33:18
Speaker
Uh, but let's, yeah, I didn't even intend for that good call. Uh, but that's the perfect kind of segue here. I alluded to the magical character that we interacted with and that was Zatanna. She kind of opened the episode and ended the episode with her.
00:33:34
Speaker
pursuit to find Superboy's soul. Initially, she was working with a, I can't remember the character's name, but she's very of like a Bayou Louisiana kind of sorceress. Do you have the name? Yep. Madame Zandu. She was fortunate. I believe that was Madame Zandu. She must have called her by her first name. Okay. Yes. She did call her a different name. That was the same fortune teller we saw in the Zatanna arc.
00:33:58
Speaker
Okay, okay. I thought that might be the case, but I didn't want to assume when I saw that different or heard and saw that different name come up because I was watching with subtitles. But immediately when I saw that River of Souls, I thought of Lord of the Rings, Two Towers, Gollum leading Frodo and Sam.
00:34:14
Speaker
I think it's an interesting thing to say how many versions of River of Souls there are. Right. Because I had two things that it reminded me of that I wrote down that are not Loader of the Rings. Okay, what you got? I specifically went, well, like, is this the River Styx? And instead of existing before you get to hell, it just exists in Louisiana?
00:34:37
Speaker
And then I was also thinking with the parallels spoilers ish if you haven't caught all the way up with moon night yet It reminded me of the duat which is just the desert of souls instead of the river of souls that they're taking a boat across like all of these different iterations in literature and mythos I love that we could point at different ones and it was just kind of a cool moment that looked really really awesome
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. I like both of those comparisons, but I particularly like the River Styx because it makes me think of the, I want to say 97 or 90, uh, maybe 98, the Disney Hercules. That was one of the best depictions of that. Yeah. The River Styx.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, no, that that's I think most people's familiarity with it. Maybe also Percy Jackson, if you happen to read those books or anything or see the awful movie. I saw the first film. I don't really remember it very well, but it obviously wasn't good enough for me to seek out the other films. But I like Logan Lerman as an actor. He was
00:35:41
Speaker
one of my first choices for Spider-Man Once Upon a Time. Cast in that movie was great. Writing was all over the place, but we digress. Anyway, bringing it back to Young Justice and Zatanna, obviously she could not find the soul there with that help. So she assembles this enclave of magical characters and finally enlists the help of Naboo by, I guess,
00:36:06
Speaker
her persistence, just telling him that she's not going to give up and she will annoy him. If anyone was going to do it, it was going to be Zatanna under the helm. So it makes sense. I also have the names of all of our magicians that were around that bell. Oh, great. Yeah, let's hear it.
00:36:22
Speaker
So we obviously had Zatanna, Zatara, and then our other Helmwares, Thirteen and Khalid. I believe I had that one right. Forgive me if not. Madam Zandy was also there along with Jason Blood, Blue Devil who appeared in the tower with the Garfield arc with the Outsiders, but we never actually heard that character talk.
00:36:47
Speaker
He was the blue guy with the horns. I recognize him, yeah. Yeah. There was also the Phantom Stranger, King Mira, Garth, and the Egyptian woman that we saw appear out of that scarab. I believe her name is Isis or something along those lines. Oh, right, yeah.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, so that was all of the ones that I recognized and could see around the bell. There's no mention of it on the wiki yet, so if I missed one, forgive me, but that was just me jotting down everyone that I saw as quick as I could. No, well done. I appreciate your efforts there. That's interesting that Isis has come up like twice in the season when we've really only had the one interaction with her so far. I think she was one of the ones that was mentioned as a potential candidate for the Justice League reserves, and now she's making an appearance here.
00:37:36
Speaker
I wonder if they've got plans for her. It would be cool if they did. They have plans for everything.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, and I almost corrected you when you mentioned Mara when you called her King. I was going to say Queen, but you were right. She is the High King, so well done to you. I specifically wrote King after that entire time that they spent minutes calling her King. I was like, this is the title they use. That's what I'm going to go with. I like it.
Nightwing's Upcoming Detective Role
00:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, well done. Yeah, and then we just got the moment in this episode where my hands went up in the air and I was so excited. And it was the last line of the episode. Yes.
00:38:10
Speaker
Yeah, we'll go ahead and give it to us. It was just, you know, maybe he's not dead. And if he's alive, we don't need magic. We need a detective. And who's gonna be our detective? The one and only world's second greatest detective Dick Grayson.
00:38:27
Speaker
Yeah, the man with the finest buttocks in all of comics. I love that I have educated so many people after DC Comics put that on their Instagram. Yeah. No, I'm excited for the Dick Grayson arc. I have been this entire time. I know Zoo hair is with me. It's
00:38:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was the perfect tease that like I didn't know where we were going to go with his art and to know that he's going to be the one that ties this all together. He's going to find out where Superboy is. He's going to be rallying the team back together to figure this whole thing out. It's going to be awesome. And I don't know how it's going to go, but it's just going to be excitement. And yeah, I'm giddy, as you could probably tell, it's great.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I don't really know where it's going to go either, but it's definitely pointing to Nightwing, which is super exciting. I guess if I had to wager a guess based on what we've been presented with so far.
00:39:25
Speaker
I could see an avenue where they tie it back to the Tigress story as well with her dealings with the League of Shadow. We made mention of a red hooded ninja character. Maybe this is the opportunity to bring him into the fold given his relationship with Dick Grayson as well as the rest of the Bat family. They might need a Lazarus Pit. That might just be the way that we get there.
00:39:54
Speaker
I, yeah, very well could be. And then maybe this is completely uncalled for out of left field, but I can't help but think about the fact that Zatanna thinks of Dick Grayson and they kind of had their little fling in the early seasons and maybe they're just friends now. And I think the last time we saw Nightwing in any kind of romantic capacity, he was
00:40:18
Speaker
Kissing Oracle and it seemed like they had a relationship going there. But you know, I kind of have to wonder if this is an opportunity. It seems like most of these arcs have at least danced around romantic relationships. And I think, you know, it's a through line of the show dealing with, you know, characters of this age and whatnot. I wonder if there's the
00:40:39
Speaker
potential for maybe a rekindling of their attraction to one another. If not, it doesn't need to happen, but I guess I wouldn't mind if it went that route.
00:40:49
Speaker
Yeah, you never know. Dick Grayson has many canonical, beautiful girlfriends in the comics, whether it be Oracle, Zatanna. We don't have a Starfire here, but Starfire is also in his possible suitors. The list just goes on. The more comics you read, I could also list off really random ones, but we won't go into that. It's
00:41:10
Speaker
It could definitely go that direction, and I agree. Their relationship has always been so playful and fun in this show specifically. I'm curious to see, is it even possibly jealousy out of Oracle in the ear? Like, what are you doing? Why are you talking like that? It could be one of those situations. You never know.
00:41:29
Speaker
That's, that's, I like that. I like, kind of like where that's going. That could be some nice drama for the show, but I also can't help but acknowledge it would not be entirely uncalled for for Young Justice to you just be like, Oh yeah, they broke up off screen. We'll fill you in later. They love her spat that you'll find out about some other time.
Outro and Industry Interviews
00:41:48
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Uh, did you have anything else you want to bring up about this episode as we prepare to wrap up here?
00:41:56
Speaker
No, I'm excited for what's to come and it was a wonderful finish to this arc. I must say the arc structure has given us some really satisfying gripping points to end every four episodes and reflect back on 100% agreed and
00:42:11
Speaker
I guess with all these episode titles, I think we were pretty satisfied with our conclusion that it's spelling out Neil before Zod. But yeah, this episode title just continues to prove that theory. And yeah, I'm walking away pretty satisfied with the way that this arc went and
00:42:33
Speaker
I'm optimistic at the end of this season here we will see all of these different arcs kind of come to a head and everyone will get their opportunity to
00:42:43
Speaker
showcase some really great action and drama as a fully functioning team and unit. For sure, because I think we have five, not four left. So we get that one extra tie this all together episode. Yeah. And just as I was kind of, you know, making the mention of them coming together as a team, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that we did see the new gods kind of come together in their Voltron form. It didn't get to go into action in any way, shape, or form. It kind of arrived just a little late.
00:43:12
Speaker
Still pretty cool to see. Oh, yeah. Okay. As we get out of here, I will open up the floor to you to let the people know about anything you've got going on or anything you'd like to plug. Well, I will do a brief little plug of go take a look at our Instagram because we have a interesting call to feedback out currently right now for something interesting going on this week upcoming. Jay Scottie, do you want to tell everyone about what that is?
00:43:38
Speaker
Certainly. We have conducted one interview with an industry professional already. That was episode 75 with Michael D'Ambrosio. I encourage you to go check that out, but we have a very exciting opportunity ahead of us this Tuesday. May 10th is when we're recording our second
00:43:55
Speaker
interview with an industry professional and that is film editor and special effects artist, Nina Helene Hurton. She's worked on shows like Duncanville, Curious George, and she's definitely dabbled in the blockbuster world with some of our favorite movies, Ant-Man and the Wasp and on the Marvel side of things, Venom from Sony, as well as Godzilla versus King Kong. So it's going to be really exciting to talk to her and get a
00:44:24
Speaker
peek behind the curtain of what goes into really selling us on the visual effects that create this blockbuster and bombastic spectacle. So check out the Instagram post that Andrew mentioned to submit questions there. You can also email us at animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com.
00:44:42
Speaker
And if you are a part of the Stranded Panda chat, the Stranded Panda is the network that we're a part of. There's a Facebook page for that. It's facebook.com slash Stranded Panda chat. I reposted the Instagram post there with a call to leave questions in the comments there. And we've already got some really great ones. So I appreciate everybody for that and look forward to seeing what kind of questions you all have. It's going to be a fun time. I can't wait.
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, indeed. Okay. Uh, other than that, yeah, I will just encourage everybody, you know, if you are excited for Dr. Strange and the multiverse of madness, or if you're just coming off the heels of moon night, check out the stranded panda network. There is a wealth of shows that are providing all sorts of coverage. We've got our flagship show, the Marvel cinematic universe that will be offering their thoughts on the moon night finale as well. Of course, their review of multiverse of madness.
00:45:34
Speaker
And also our sibling show source pages, they just did some interesting coverage on some Doctor Strange comics leading right up to Multiverse of Madness. So good time to be a nerd, a fan of comic content, as well as always animated content here. So keep tuning in. That's T-O-O-N-I-N. And as we go across the multiverse, if there's some animation out there, we might just have to talk about it. But we'll find out after we see that movie, Muscle Muscle. Indeed.
00:46:05
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
00:46:35
Speaker
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00:47:05
Speaker
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