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"Changing of the guard" ACN Pod 111
78 Plays1 year ago
Jon and Tom discuss a very satisfying performance against Hull, 3 wins from 5 (or is it 6?) and reflect on how much may be changing at all levels of the football club in the months to come.
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Transcript
Introduction & Norwich vs Hull Recap
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Knowledge Podcast, the habitat of huffy half-wits haranguing your hear-holes with half-baked opinions following Norwich's latest contest with Hull. John, we looked thoroughly competent last night, a performance that perhaps the home supporters were owed given the last few months of dross they'd been served up.
00:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, I couldn't believe it. Well, Maddie's flagged it in the Long Come Norwich match review on the website, which went up this morning. I think it was 108 days, maybe 106, 108 days since we'd recorded a victory at home. That, quite frankly, is ridiculous. Yeah, it certainly is regulation form now.
00:01:04
Speaker
It felt like a team that had started to play to their strengths a bit more.
Strategic Highlights: Ida & Sarab Shine
00:01:09
Speaker
So we were using Ida as an obvious outlet, you know, if we needed to go long, which wasn't all the time, you know, by the way, you know, we kind of, I thought we varied it really well. But, you know, if we had needed a channel ball, kind of an out ball, he was there. He played really well, I thought, for someone who hasn't completed 90 minutes for, you know, a significant period of time. And it just felt like that.
00:01:30
Speaker
athleticism and strength at that end of the park was maybe what we'd been missing. And I say that as the biggest Jamie Pookie fan, you know, kind of going, you know, he is absolutely my boy, but I don't know, maybe Wagner has seen something, you know, in Colney to say that this might be the way that we need to play if we're going to execute his style and his game plan.
00:01:53
Speaker
So it was interesting that Sarab has basically stepped up and become kind of the midfield engine room because Kenny is dropping between the centre backs and in that quarterback role, I thought he was perfectly competent last night. He had a really, really good game, which is good considering I thought that he'd had two of his poorer performances of the season preceding that. So it's nice to see him back.
00:02:17
Speaker
in the midfield mix and how good were the full backs last night?
Fullback Dynamics & Creative Attack
00:02:22
Speaker
I know you knew this comes in for quite a bit of stick in terms of he might be lightweight and he might do stupid things and you know look some of that is legitimate criticism but there was a moment
00:02:33
Speaker
and I was sat in the city stand last night, so lots of people probably wouldn't have noticed it, but there was a moment where he was absolutely sprinted at full pail, and I think we were two and up at the time, and he was trying to get back, and his face, there was just his wince on his face, he was absolutely giving all for the football club, and I was like, yeah, that's what we want to see, and that's maybe what Wagner has been able to install in these players quickly. The other thing I'd say in terms of full backs is,
00:03:02
Speaker
It was really nice. And again, I could hear him from my vantage point. Max was demanding the ball over and over and over again. And he was always available for the switch. And he's just absolutely rejuvenated under Wagner. And I think he's probably the most likely to go in the summer because his form will be so good at this back end of the season. And look, maybe he's owed that move. He's outstayed.
00:03:30
Speaker
maybe, you know, kind of is expected, you know, kind of Norwich tenure, if you like. But it was just really nice to see us playing with high full backs, with intensity, with, you know, almost looking to go back to front quite quickly. And we're, you know, but in a considered way as well. And I'd been quite critical of the previous two performances because it just felt like we were blunt and there was no real creative force.
00:03:57
Speaker
kind of had that a bit last night. We've scored three goals, probably could have scored a couple more. And it just felt like if we can replicate that level of performance, and I don't think we will every week and week out there, let's be honest about it. But if we could, if we could start to harness that energy, then yeah, top six is perfectly possible.
Coach Wagner's Tactics & Pookie's Role
00:04:19
Speaker
Maybe not probable, but perfectly possible. And we're not ready to go up, but it'll be fun whilst we enjoy the ride.
00:04:30
Speaker
I haven't seen any of Wagner's post-match comments. It was very interesting to me and I picked up on it and said to people next to me,
00:04:40
Speaker
Pookie's not even coming out to warm up, you know, during the second half. So I think there was an issue there. Now whether, I think someone had suggested that he might have, you know, kind of felt a twinge in his calf when he was warming up the first half. Other people have suggested that it might be fatigue or just rotation.
00:04:58
Speaker
I don't know. You're right. You know, Sergeant Anita had given so much that, you know, you almost felt like, right, well, we need to change that up. And Pookie's perfectly, you know, kind of adept at pressing and, you know, kind of, you know, really the reason that I felt like he wasn't on the pitch was
00:05:17
Speaker
because he hasn't got the natural strength of of Ida or Sargent and he's not as athletic as them but you know he could have gone and done a job much as Crystal Scholes went to try and do a job when when O'Neill Hernandez came off so I think there's maybe something up there in terms of his his fitness it just it takes us one game further away from Teemu not getting 100 Norwich goals and
00:05:41
Speaker
I'll be frank, I can't see him doing it now and that will forever haunt me unless he signs another contract. It's not going to happen, is it? Bless him. Because he's just been an incredible servant for this football club. But I think to get back to your question, the logic around it, one, I think Wagner has said he will rotate these players, but two, it's
00:06:04
Speaker
we needed to look at the the strengths that we need up top to to successfully deploy his system and it feels like that's maybe where he's shifting towards now and Pookie will be a part of that I am sure for you know kind of forever for as long as he's at the football club he will he will be a big part of of that but it's just
00:06:28
Speaker
We've seen a change in the guard, I think, aren't we? I think that that's the only way you can put it. Yeah, I think we're going to talk about Pookie a lot between now and the end of the season. So I think the same as you in that I didn't, I'm sure Wagner was asked the question, but having just quickly googled it, I can't see if a specific answer was given.
Eda's Potential: The New Dean Ashton?
00:06:45
Speaker
I wasn't, you know, I've got to be honest, I didn't notice him warming up. I don't think I was astute enough to
00:06:52
Speaker
sort of pay attention to whether or not, because, yeah, I think it would have made sense if he wasn't warming up, then clearly he doesn't look like he's about to come on. We also know he's a super good character guy, so he's not going to cause a stink, you would imagine, as long as it's not a long way off from the team. Because, you know, it's not the only time he's been out of the team for a couple of games. That has happened before. You know, Farq did do it a couple of times. Yeah, I mean, I love the directness. I loved how Ida
00:07:19
Speaker
and and sergeant sort of dovetail together and I loved the the fact that you know who Edel really remind me of there was a couple of things sort of just physically the way he swept across pitch with the ball and then brought in Maxie as he as he ran on the overlap
00:07:42
Speaker
there was an element of kind of peak Dean Ashton about it. You know, big lad, fantastic touch, moves the ball out of his feet really smoothly in a kind of Rolls Royce fashion, and then brings players in alongside him and then like turns and heads into the penalty box to receive kind of the cross. That was kind of the recollection I got from, you know, and I just thought, wow, if we've got this guy for a few more years, and that's his ceiling, I mean, obviously, maybe not quite as, you know, England call up that Ashton got, but, you know, if we
00:08:12
Speaker
I'd be surprised if he got called out for England, mate, to be fair. Sorry, you know what I mean? I know he's an international, an international level, you know, no offence to Ireland, but maybe Premier League, international level. If that's his ceiling, then I think we really have got
00:08:29
Speaker
something to be excited about especially if you've then got Sargent who can be a really willing runner alongside him and then I like the idea of taking on the Premier League if we get there at the end of next season or who knows if there is playoffs at the end of this season
00:08:48
Speaker
taking on the Premier League with two up front, because we haven't done that for ages. You're going back to Ashton and Mackenzie, aren't you? Last time we actually had two up front. I can't think we've done it since then. And there's essentially, I think there might have been a few games where Elmanda maybe played with Hooper or, you know, I mean, we weren't really taking it seriously. I was going to say. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
00:09:12
Speaker
It's really interesting with Eda that Dean Smith had come out and basically he hadn't used the words, he's a croc, but he'd said something along the lines of he's an injury compromised athlete or joint compromised athlete, something along those lines. Basically his knees are fucked and we're going to manage him.
00:09:31
Speaker
and we've gone from that to a new five-year contract and him leading the line superbly well and like you say looked out on his feet but you know that was maybe out of necessity more than anything so yeah maybe this is the start of either on the up but we've had a few false dawns
00:09:49
Speaker
with that lad and it has always come down to injury rather than form or anything else so you just really want to see it go right for him you want to see him get a run of games you want to see him start to score goals just get that confidence up because there is definitely as you say there's there's a real player in him and i hadn't even thought about you know kind of the
00:10:08
Speaker
Maybe, you know, that he's Ashton like, or he's, I think he's a lot quicker than Ashton and he's maybe a lot more direct than Ashton. But yeah, I know what you mean in terms of his strength and being able to bring it, you know, people into play. I think he did a really good job at that. I think it's attributes. I think Ashton was of an age, of an era. You know, Ashton probably would have come up through a youth level to be trained in a similar way to how Ida has been. So maybe Ashton, I mean, he might be even faster.
00:10:34
Speaker
Um, but the, in terms of the, um, I mean, uh, you know, let's have it right. I mean that as a really high compliment that Ashton, I think is, um, you know, you've got to go back to Sutton for a top flight striker that has been in the Norwich side and you've gone, I think he would fit in most top flight, um, Premier league teams. Like that, that was how good he was. And we got such a.
00:11:00
Speaker
tiny bit of Ashton in the Premier League and then obviously he went on to show he could do it West Ham and yeah I meant that as the highest compliment because it was the way in which he did it a couple of times in the first half away from the South stand across to the city stand bringing Max in. There was something about the way that he was in control of knowing I'm going to knock the ball out of my feet but into a space that only I can then get to it and I'm then going to be in control of who I then bring into the play.
00:11:29
Speaker
I loved it. I like what I'm seeing in this early Wagner Rock era. The Burnley game, it was dreadful. Really low energy, as we've talked about. I really liked the fact that we're creating lots of chances that are of a higher XG than they were under Smith.
00:11:55
Speaker
I like the fact that we've maintained the fact that set pieces were still very solid defensively, although we're still not causing enough of a problem offensively. But these mistakes, I can't remember who I saw. I want to give credit to the person.
00:12:13
Speaker
It might have been NCFC numbers I mean it normally is, but I can't 100% be sure. Someone yesterday had an amazing start that we've got something like the joint highest number of mistakes that leads to goals in European football.
00:12:26
Speaker
And like, I knew it was really bad. Like we would double anyone else in the league, but yeah. So I haven't, I haven't doubled. It was, it was, I think it was on the Twitters. I think it was NCFC numbers. So I haven't done my research, but I almost feel I don't need to.
Goalkeeper Debate: Krull vs Angus
00:12:41
Speaker
I'm thinking Eda's going to get an England call out. So, you know, I missed the fact check, but you know what I mean?
00:12:46
Speaker
you almost think like even without checking that you think yeah sounds legit like yeah and last night again you know last night against hole more than one occasion their their only real threat was going to come from us fucking out that was the goal let's be honest i mean we can get i don't think we need to get into a goalkeeper debate because that's been done to death
00:13:07
Speaker
elsewhere. But you could say that Angus was culpable for that goal. You know, he was weak on the cross, didn't get enough on it. And then he's on the floor and it's in the back of the net before you know it. And look, clearly, he's definitely culpable for Saturday's goal. So there is still a debate to be had about the goalkeepers. And look, I don't
00:13:27
Speaker
I think Tim Cruise comes in for a lot of stick when actually he commands his box pretty well. He's an excellent shot stopper, I think probably better than Angus in terms of shot stopping. And yeah, look, he'll be the first to admit he's been
00:13:43
Speaker
pretty poor with his feet this season, you know, throughout this season. It's the distribution that got him dropped, not his shots. Yeah, 100% and I kind of feel for him because I don't think this is a particularly popular opinion, but I actually think Tim Crowell, the 1819, 1920 Crowell,
00:14:00
Speaker
was better with his feet. Once he got used to what Farka was trying to do, he was better with his feet than Angus was in 1718. And that's not a slight on Angus. I just think that, you know, Krull really got it. And I wonder whether if we'd have persisted with him, he might have got into his rhythm and he might have picked it up. But, you know, it did become an issue that was probably
00:14:22
Speaker
too big and Wagner had to do something about it. I think there's also a combo of that. I also think maybe Zimmerman Godfrey and him, that three in the 18-19 season in particular, the last three months of that season, they just had such an incredible chemistry with regards to playing out from the back and starting it off.
00:14:45
Speaker
neither Zimmerman nor Godfrey. Godfrey would stride forward with it a bit more often, but the plan was not for those three to have it very long. Whereas in the later part of Farkas rain and definitely during the bollards rain, there was a lot, we seem to want to have a lot of time with just that kind of back, that call back three having the ball.
00:15:06
Speaker
And on the point of crawl, if early in the season, we did call out a few times, because obviously we were riding high in automatic places and trouble in the top three or four early in the season.
00:15:22
Speaker
with that good run we were on, a lot of that was down to Tim Cruell making a fantastic save at 0-0 or a fantastic save at 1-0. And we called it out and we made the point that he is keeping us in games that we are narrowly snaked and scraping through. So I honestly think that
00:15:41
Speaker
given how much they've now played. I mean, I shouldn't think they're far off 50-50 now, maybe, the games they've started. I think both of them can probably have a good case to feel a bit aggrieved, and both of them can have a case to feel culpable in terms of why I should be in or out of the team. I think they've both done enough good stuff both ways. So I guess you could point to it to be a nice problem for Wagner to have,
00:16:07
Speaker
He's got two keepers who a lot of championship teams would swap theirs for, and I still think that's the case. But maybe, maybe we haven't got the Premier League keeper we would need if we were to go. Yeah, I think that's fair. And we've just referenced, look, a changing of the guard up front. I think we're probably seeing the changing of the guard in goal as well, aren't we? Because Tim is at a stage of his career where he's going to want to be the number one or
00:16:37
Speaker
He's going to want to be the number three on a big fuck off wedge of money. A Rob Green Chelsea contract. I've had conversations with people at the club where that has felt like that might be an option for him. And I think this summer just gone, maybe there was a credible look if the right offer comes in.
00:17:00
Speaker
he'll go because we've got Angus and actually that's going to be perfectly fine at this level. You can't say we've got Angus and not follow it up. I feel sad about it because it's the beginning of the end for someone who I think may well end up in the club's Hall of Fame and should end up in the club. There's no doubt that he will, mate. There's no doubt that he will. It does feel like
00:17:27
Speaker
I would be surprised if we see Krull in a Norwich shirt again with any kind of regularity, like ever, full stop, you know. And Kazangas is the future, like there's no doubt about that. He is our future in terms of, you know, kind of goalkeeper. And you're right, like maybe neither of them are up to like kind of top-end Premier League goalkeepers.
00:17:48
Speaker
We're not shopping in those markets at the moment. We're not going to be at the Premier League if we get there. I would say that it would be similar to the Fierman situation. It would be a case of Angus, you were the number one when we got promoted.
00:18:05
Speaker
we're going to bring someone in who has got, who feels like they want to be number one in the Premier League, who hasn't had the chance to be number one in the Premier League before, and you're going to battle it out. And the Premier League, being what the Premier League is like, you'll probably both end up with at least 20 starts. Because actually, the bottom half of the Premier League, you often have keepers that do 10 here and 10 there, depending on, you know, runs of form and how the team is playing. Because every now and again, you get battered by a Liverpool or a Man City or whatever, and maybe you change the keeper because of it. Yeah, I am...
00:18:34
Speaker
Going back to, you know, talking about the, this initial Wagner reign, would you say you're seeing what you thought you were going to see? Like how, how, where are we at in term? Cause you were a little bit cooler on his appointment than me. Neither of us were 10 out of 10. Oh my goodness me. This is amazing. But I was, I think it was half a mark out of 10 keener than you. Would you say that we are maybe on par with where you thought we'd get to a bit ahead of schedule? Yeah.
00:19:07
Speaker
two performances where I thought there's a lot of control there. You can see what he's trying to do properly. And it felt like, and look, we never had this under Smith in his tenure, maybe, where we've put together a performance where for the full 90 minutes, or maybe 75, 80 minutes, we've bettered a team significantly. And we've done that at Preston. We've done that last night.
00:19:28
Speaker
but it's difficult, like we've seen, I think.
00:19:35
Speaker
Coventry was a bit hair and scarum, but actually second half was a massive degree of control. For the second half onwards we looked like the team that knew what they were doing. So there's signs that I think
00:19:46
Speaker
look, anyone outside of the top ten, we should be able to deal with comfortably. And there's also signs to say that a team in form or a team that that has the requisite quality we're going to struggle with at the moment, you know, because Bristol City were in decent form. Burnley just one of the best championship sides in terms of maybe more than the sum of their parts that I've seen at Carrow Road for a good while. And I think your comparison to that, that Newcastle side is, you know, is a really good one. So
00:20:17
Speaker
That's the progression, right? That's where we now need to go and see a performance against one of the bigger teams. And it really didn't bother me, the Burnley defeat. What bothered me more was we didn't try and impress upon Burnley what we'd been doing in the previous two games. As you said, we didn't go and press them maybe with the intensity that we had in previous games. And if we'd have done that and got picked apart,
00:20:39
Speaker
Do you know what, as long as you can see the application, as long as you can see the effort, as long as you can see the infancy of Wagner's plan against better sides, I think we'd have all taken that, wouldn't we? No one was rolling into that expecting us to absolutely smash Burnley. I thought anyway, although there was lots of people that were very positive about the fact that we were going to turn them over, I think to answer your question, we're about
Squad Quality & Ownership Questions
00:21:04
Speaker
where I thought we might be and that, look, the jury is definitely still going to be out and still going to be out for a while if we carry on with this level of inconsistency. But there are slightly more good things at this stage than maybe I thought there might be. I think, you know, the only other thing I was going to say is
00:21:26
Speaker
I think we need, you know, look, the couple of games preceding this has put in stark contrast, you know, let's not get away from ourselves. This squad isn't as good as anyone thought at the start of the season. And, and the fact that the squad and, you know, in their play is still in their interviews are saying, Oh, well, we've got the best squad in the division. No, we haven't. Like, of course we haven't because we're, you know, we're eighth now, but we were 10th when you said it, like, don't be ridiculous. Like, and so I wonder.
00:21:54
Speaker
whether this operation, I've called it Operation Total Reset, I think that's going to happen in the summer and there's going to be an absolute seismic change at the football club. I'm sure we'll get into it, but that comes with the ownership model as well. Things are going to change and it's not going to look like what we've been used to and there's going to be people around the football club that we'd become really accustomed to and really taken to our hearts.
00:22:23
Speaker
And they're just not going to be there anymore, or they're going to be playing a more limited role. And yeah, it's going to be a period of adjustment, I think.
00:22:30
Speaker
I think the, I think the interesting to see what our opinion is, um, in three matches time. So we're about to play 18th, 21st and 22nd. So, so that, that will be a test of your theory of actually, are we going to be flat track bullies? Like we were at the start of the season and put away cause now these kinds of teams that we, we beat, I mean, you know, one of them beat us kind of first game of season, but, um, you know, general, although we did batter them for a lot of that game, um, generally.
00:23:00
Speaker
We were flat track buddies. Will we see that again? With under this team and if we play like we played against whole the answer is yes And we'll score some good goals because yeah, we we we looked like we knew exactly how we were gonna get for me to be
00:23:13
Speaker
There was very little dithering, very little questioning what I should do next, the directness, the energy. It's really enjoyable to watch. It's not farcable. It's not particularly beautiful triangles. Although there's elements of that in transition, it just seems to be a really direct
00:23:34
Speaker
but quite nice to watch. Yeah. Quick, energetic. Let's get forward so quickly that they can't sort themselves out. Pressing, getting the ball back, that went really well against Hull. The getting the ball back, either in the first or second press went really, really well. Then after that,
00:23:51
Speaker
to almost completely prove your point, we've then got Millwall and Sunderland, like straight afterwards, back to back. We're at the den and then Sunderland come to us. So you've gone from 18th, 22nd, 21st to all of a sudden you're facing people who are obviously, that's three games away, but currently are fifth and seventh. So both above us and both effectively.
00:24:13
Speaker
are direct rivals for the sixth fifth playoff spots that feel like if Norwich are going to finish anywhere positively, it's going to be fifth or sixth. So we are effectively, they are promotion six pointers or playoff chasing six pointers. So we've got three games to tune up and you feel like we need
00:24:33
Speaker
probably nine points at worst seven because of the opposition and because of the run of games we've then got coming up afterwards if we pick up seven points from those games and then basically split the next two win and a loss or a couple of draws would probably be okay because you know if we do win three in a row we'll probably be above at least one of those two is it we're only one game at the playoffs now one a bit at the playoffs now so
00:24:55
Speaker
It'll be really interesting, I think, to see how this next little run goes. And I think at that point, we'll be able to judge, we'll be approaching 10 games under Wagner in the league. Actually, what do we look like? We were talking before we press record, do you say, well, it's three wins out of five in the league? Does that double to six in 10? Is it six a draw and a couple of losses? Or all of a sudden, are we including the Blackburn game and going,
00:25:21
Speaker
Well, actually, it's only four for all from 10. Actually, he's not got the best win percentage, et cetera. So let's talk about these shares then. So we're recording this on Wednesday after the whole Tuesday game.
00:25:37
Speaker
you know the most dramatic change really in terms of ownership at the club in what approaching 30 years you know absolutely seismic really that no longer are dealing with Michael able to say yes when everyone else says no. Yeah and I think that's really interesting because
00:25:57
Speaker
Delia and Michael, and I think, you know, look, Stuart and Zoe Weber have talked about the benefits of collaborative working, have talked about, you know, kind of where none of us is cleverer than all of us, or, you know, however the phrase goes. And that's really going to be tested now. I'm not sure how I feel about it, because essentially what we're going to have, look, if, as we think, and, you know, the noises are that it's absolutely the Atanasios that are hoovering up those 194,000 shares,
00:26:27
Speaker
If they do that, from what we hear, basically that puts them on pretty much level pegging with Delia and Michael. So they're both around the 40% mark. And so what happens if there's disagreement? What happens if, and I mean serious disagreement about the future direction of the football club, because what we've got is a sporting director model, which I fully support and endorse, but you've also got a sporting director who,
00:26:56
Speaker
hasn't really got credit in the bank anymore because of successive transfer windows that haven't gone particularly well. But he is certainly a man that has proven himself and has two championship titles and three championship promotions on his CV and has also proven himself to be extremely adept at working in a transfer market where you have to be creative or funds are more limited. What he hasn't done is proven himself maybe signing
00:27:23
Speaker
10 million pound players that have then worked out to create profit for us. That just hasn't happened under Stuart Webber. So what happens if season down the line, 18 months down the line, we've had another two or three really poor transfer windows
00:27:41
Speaker
And suddenly, you know, Atanasio and maybe I think because they've got another board seat, haven't they, that they can appoint to, I think, for for the American kind of the Americans that what happens when they start to ask a few questions, maybe that that maybe wouldn't have been asked before. And I welcome that additional layer of scrutiny.
00:28:04
Speaker
I think it's a really good thing, but it's going to be really interesting to see how that pans out and will never be privy to the conversations in the boardroom.
00:28:13
Speaker
I hope that it's the positive that they're selling. I hope it is the look, we can really learn from what the Milwaukee Brewers are doing and the Brewers can learn from what Norwich are doing. And, you know, look, everyone's going to be a winner. But football isn't, you know, kind of as simple as that. And I'm sure baseball probably isn't as simple as that. But, you know, we all just talk about what we do really well, and then we'll just do some of that and everything will be brilliant forever. You know, that's not going to happen. But
00:28:38
Speaker
Again, you know like we said it's it's a changing of the guard I think this this is this is the precursor to the atanasios taking over the football club in full and I think most people are ready for it now aren't they most people are kind of off the view that you know what we there's a necessity to to what needs to happen because the only reason these shares are getting issued right now
Future Planning & Atanasio Takeover
00:29:02
Speaker
is
00:29:02
Speaker
is because the club are massively short of cash. We've taken out nearly 60 million quid's worth of loans and
00:29:11
Speaker
you know, we still want to do up the city stand and we, you know, we'll put another tier on the city stand or knock it down and start again. And, you know, we've, there's still infrastructure projects at Colney that they want to complete. So if, you know, if Stuart Weber and Zoe Weber's legacy is that they're going to swan off into the sunset. And I've said this before, you know, but if their legacy is like, you know, they're going to legacy it.
00:29:40
Speaker
Hang on. Seriously, though, if their legacy is going to be like a 32,000 capacity stadium and Norwich City being established in the Premier League, there is lots of work to do and we will need a fair bit of money to do that. And that's the impression I get is that the cash injection, which is about to come probably in the next couple of weeks, isn't necessarily for the football side of the business. And I think that's where maybe people might need to temper their expectations. I think it's more around the infrastructure, which will set us up
00:30:09
Speaker
you know, down the line, you know, say five, 10 years down the road where the additional season ticket money is coming in and maybe the catering revenue because we've done something fancy with, you know, one of the restaurants or bars or whatever, you know, all of those projects will start to come to fruition because I think that's what the Atanasios are in it for the long term, much like they were with the brewers. And they invested in the stadium and, you know, kind of training grounds, I think, you know, and all the rest of it. I think they get that. They're here for the long term. And that's why
00:30:38
Speaker
They have been chosen as the ones that may ultimately succeed, Delia and Michael, and become majority shareholders. So yeah, it's really interesting times to come. I don't think we're going to see anything, any kind of immediacy around the Atanasios being the majority shareholders anytime soon. But yeah, I think it's going to be a collaboration for a good while yet.
00:31:03
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a bit surprised how quickly they've gone from the initial stage to this. And that's where I think that's born out of necessity because we're just so hard up. Well, that's interesting. Are you saying that because you've heard that or are you saying that because you're reading the tea leaves that way? Tea leaves, definitely. But the club have been fairly candid and gone, we haven't got any money anymore. No, I appreciate that. However,
00:31:28
Speaker
Just because that's the case, it doesn't necessarily mean, if anything, that might be a reason why the Atanasios go, well, hang on a cockpit minute. Like, does the football hang on? Do soccer clubs lose money? You know, like, if they're just realizing that we're all fucked, mate. That's kind of my point. The fact that it's so bleak and they would have done their due diligence before even buying one share for 50p, but
00:31:51
Speaker
I don't know, I'd take, I mean, I missed a half full on this whole, you know, shenanigans of the transfer and I like to think of it as
00:32:05
Speaker
The fact that they've moved so quickly from they gave themselves, you know, several years before, you know, they, they need to either get cash out or, or, or, or front up kind of thing. Um, and the fact that we're only talking, you know, three months or whatever, three and a half, four months since all of a sudden they were at Carrow Road saying, Oh, by the way, this is me and this is what I'm doing.
00:32:24
Speaker
I think that can only be a positive thing, that they've actually seen enough now to say, do you know what? Yeah, we'll stump up and help by doing this restructure and put some money at risk, which is effectively what they're doing, by buying such a lot of money. I don't think it's a bad thing. This isn't me being glass half empty. I think it's just, do you know what? We're hard up and these guys can help now and we trust them already to come in and help them. We know what, if all things go well,
00:32:50
Speaker
This is how it's going to pan out long term. It's going to be their football club. I think that's just where we're at is that if we have been looking like we were going to make a Premier League return or all of the assets that we signed over the last few transfer windows had seen a massive return on investment.
00:33:07
Speaker
I think they'd have invested in Michael Folger's shares, but I don't think they'd have had to put the extra money in. I think this is just maybe like a recalibration. Well, let's take a couple of questions before we wrap things up today, because we did have a couple of interesting ones. One in particular that is you could do quite a long podcast just on the subject of this alone. It might be something we revisit in the summer. Yeah, it might be something that we have to revisit in the summer because I'm conscious that
00:33:35
Speaker
you haven't got that long mate but no just lunch time the first one um which i really liked is from our mate Andrew Kent who asks if this is to be Teemu's last season with us where does he rank amongst the great Norwich City strikers and why and i thought maybe we could broaden this out and try and come up with a a long-term Norwich top five Norwich City strikers and i i think maybe i have to caveat this and say
00:34:03
Speaker
within our lifetimes because we don't know enough about, you know, the top scorers that, yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, Holty is, Holty has to be top three. Pookie has to be top three.
00:34:22
Speaker
Out and out strikers, not forward players. Yeah. So I think we'd discount Hux or away. Hux and Houlihan and yeah, yeah. I think, I think Houlton, Houlton team who will be evasive vying for number one depending on which game or which run of games you're fondly looking back on.
00:34:41
Speaker
But which season, yeah, I think you're probably looking back on, yeah. You know, there's been a few, there was a few kind of X years to the day of that Ipswich 3-0. And obviously, but then likewise, when you look back to the kind of some of the Ipswich games that Holtie starred in and, you know, that journey that we went on with Lambert from league one up to the Premier League and staying there was just,
00:35:08
Speaker
Fantastic. And Holt was just such a, he was, he was just so nice to watch. Well, surely he can't do it at this level. Oh, he can. Oh, surely he can't do it at this level. Oh, he can. Yeah. You know, and that was, and we, maybe the fact we didn't have that with Pookie in that, well, we've got him on a free, who knows, you know, this is basically very low, very low risk, very high reward.
00:35:28
Speaker
He's done brilliantly. I was fairly confident he'd score goals in the Premier League. Once I'd seen what he could do at the championship level. Types of goals he scored. With Holt, hands up, I think I can't believe anyone was confident that he would genuinely be a threat in the Premier League. I discounted him at championship level. I thought it'd be good for 10-15 at championship level and then smashed it.
00:35:50
Speaker
That's my point. So I would maybe give him the edge just purely on that element to it. I think Pookie would probably need to do another, maybe another year in terms of promotions. I mean, he's played a lot more games than Grant Holt, though. That's the thing. He's played a lot more games than Grant Holt. He scored consistently. He's hit double figures every season. He's been at Norwich.
00:36:18
Speaker
He's been part of that season, you know, the 18-19 and he scored another 20 goals, you know, in another championship promotion campaign. He had, he didn't have the luxury of a season in league one where, let's be honest, if he had, he'd have probably scored 35 goals, you know, something ridiculous. I think there's a legitimate claim for both of them to have been the best strikers of our lifetimes. Yeah, the last 30 odd years. Sutton's got to be in there. Ewan, I don't think you can, I mean, I think Ewan's longevity
00:36:48
Speaker
Yeah. So again, it then comes down to ability. So, you know, Ashton was 15, no, 15 strong. Ashton was maybe three times the player Ewan was in terms of in terms of ability. However, he was only with us for five minutes. So so otherwise you'd be extending out to Earnshaw or Craig Bellamy and whoever. And who is it we had on loan? You scored a couple of hat tricks and
00:37:15
Speaker
Uh, begins with L I think. Leeroy Lita. Leeroy Lita, that's it. Get out. I'm talking about it in this conversation. I love Leeroy Lita. But again, short, short, short, sharp burst where it was, it was fun and you thought you're coming along for the ride kind of thing. That was a really fun, short, sharp burst where he suddenly scored and he kept scoring multiple goals in the game.
00:37:38
Speaker
You know, Danny Pacheco enjoyed his short, short stay as well. But anyway, getting on to a lone conversation there. But if we get back into Stryker's, I'd say you've got to throw Robert Fleck in the mix. You've got to throw Ewan in the mix. You've got to throw Sutton in the mix. I hope you mix. Brilliant. Yeah, but again, he didn't play that many games, I don't think, for us. And he didn't actually score that many goals, I don't think, if you look at his record. Lai Tamara. Yeah. Amanda. This is silly. This is silly now.
00:38:04
Speaker
Well, you mentioned El Mander earlier, Gary Hooper, he scored a fantastic volley. But not in the pantheon of Norris City strikers. Of course not, no. Lewis Graben got sent off, that was the same game that he scored that incredible volley, wasn't it? I was at Rotherham for that New York City stadium.
00:38:20
Speaker
I can't remember him scoring, I can remember the red card. Yeah, I think Hooper scored an absolute thunder bastard volley. So we've got a five of like hulk, pookey, Sutton, Roberts, Fleck, not necessarily in that order. I don't think I wouldn't put Roberts above Ashton. No, I'm not... I just don't think Ashton played long enough for us to be considered in this conversation. I think that's my only logic around this. Okay, but Fleck definitely.
00:38:51
Speaker
I loved Robert Fleck. Have we missed anyone? Have we missed anyone that we're going to be... Almost certainly. Yeah, kicking ourselves. I mean, if we were another podcast, we would say get in the comments now, hit us up on the socials with your suggestions, you know, because we'd be going for hashtag engagement. Who's the guy, Lupele? Now that's a nice segue into the other question that we've had, which, you know, you're right, we haven't got long enough for.
00:39:20
Speaker
Matthew McGregor asks, this is a massive topic given the range of options but who is your favourite ever loan player who barely played at all because of injuries before returning to their parent club? And evidently he is referencing Aaron Ramsey this season and you'd probably say although he hasn't returned yet but you know Isaac Hayden as well this season our loans have not worked out
00:39:41
Speaker
No. Particularly well. Who else you got? Well, I mean my loan conversations I always go straight to Henry Lansbury. I adored him. The question is like who barely played because they got injured and it was very Norwich style signing.
00:39:58
Speaker
I can't, I can't, I can't have the word loan said without then immediately going to, to Henry Lansbury. Give me, give me your list and I'll, and I'll ship in. So I did, I, I just put some thoughts on, some of these haven't got injured and like returned to their parent club, but it was just,
00:40:15
Speaker
players that were worthy of notes. So someone in the comments came up with John Kennedy, which I thought was an excellent shout. Matt Jarvis, I think initially started as a loan, didn't he? And then turned permanent. I mean, let's be honest, his injury record was just... Cockwell ankles. Yeah. Joseph Yobo, I think. Oh, yeah. I only know which players have we had on loan. Gutierrez. I think he went back to Newcastle and then played a few games that season.
00:40:45
Speaker
And then, and then I just started looking through players that we'd loaned. And so I just want to throw out a few names that I'd completely forgotten that had ever played for Norwich. So we've got Patrick Boyle. Yeah. Lee Camp. Yeah. I remember Lee Camp. Yeah. OJ Caroma. I mean, we all remember. Didn't Lee Camp play in a derby? He could be right, actually. I think we did have to sign him as like an emergency loan or something. Yeah. I think he was at Roda signed him. He could be right. Yeah. That kind of era. Chris Killen.
00:41:15
Speaker
I mean, it's killing. Yeah. Just yeah. You're right. It is a whole podcast that we could just go through the various ridiculousness of lone players. Lone A to Z would be good fun to try and do. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. He camped in half play for some players, for some teams. 2013, he made three appearances.
00:41:37
Speaker
2013, was it that? Yeah, apparently. Not for Norwich. That's what Wikipedia says and they're never wrong. Yeah, so... Let's have a look, let's quickly look. He wore the number 42 shirt. Yeah, it's because Mark Bunn was sent off, that's right. Is that what we saw in you? Yes, we were already on our back up and then Bunn got sent off.
00:42:03
Speaker
For handling the ball outside the box and he played in the he played in the Premier League against Wigan and then he was and then he came in for Mark Bunn again because for the groin injury against Swansea I do remember that yeah if we had him before that or am I just dreaming that
00:42:20
Speaker
According to which again is never wrong Lee camp was a Premier League goalkeeper. Well, yeah in my head I had him as like in our weird sort of Championship years like yeah for some reason I remember him playing against Ipswich. That must have been a different loan goalkeeper I think we need to do a loans episode because I'm sure it's the same with every club But when you actually do then go and look through you just get oh, yeah
00:42:44
Speaker
Sibieski was another one who I thought about when we were talking about the greatest strikers of all time. He scored that one really good free kick, do you remember? That like B-roll all along the floor. I also started thinking about players who we signed who then just got injured and never played for us and there was like Steve Walsh.
00:43:00
Speaker
who I thought was just going to be the best sign in when he came. Dejan Stavanovich, you know, like, well, this guy's got a real pedigree, you know, he's got a brilliant centre back at this level. So they weren't loans, but I just wanted to give them honourable mentions. I'm sure they'll be. They're PR people delighted.
00:43:18
Speaker
All right, then. Well, thank you for sending in your questions. Thank you for listening to our prattle. We will be back not too far away. It's been a long time. Sorry about that. Life got a bit busy. But we will be back, like, hopefully, talking about, yeah, I reckon we need at least six points, absolute minimum, from the upcoming three games to set us up nicely for those very, very tasty looking playoff six pointers. I acknowledge you exist, John. Everyone else, mine. There you go.