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Episode 203: The Evolution of Magic Events
226 Plays1 year ago
Hello, Podwalkers, and welcome back to another episode of the Goblin Lore Podcast! Today is a very special episode. As Alex points out, they are all special, but this one is a return to all three hosts being present!! Today the Goblins look at how big Magic Events have morphed and take a look in particular even in the growth of the last year (between Minneapolis and Vegas). We kind of recap Vegas and look at what went well and where there still could be some changes. We hope you all enjoy!
We also finally have a Linktree with all of our discounts/resources
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Opening and closing music by Wintergatan (@wintergatan). Logo art by Steven Raffael (@SteveRaffle)
Goblin Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast, and a part of their growing Vorthos content – as well as Magic content of all kinds. Check them out at hipstersofthecoast.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Celebrations
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello Podwalkers and welcome to another episode of the Goblin Lore podcast. This is a special episode which I say a lot and I mean it every time because every episode is special. But also this episode I'm just gonna say all three of our hosts are here. This is great.
00:00:49
Speaker
We've had some things back and forth. I know we recorded episode 200 recently together, which was awesome too. And that was our first episode with all three of us for a while, but it's always fun. We get everybody together. So today we want to talk about...
Magic Events 2023 Recap and 2024 Speculation
00:01:04
Speaker
Events, magic events. Hobbs just came back, who you heard a little bit ago, and we'll do introductions in a second, but Hobbs just came back from Vegas, wants to talk, so we want to talk to him about the event, and then also just kind of talk about these, this version of magic events, because Wizards has kind of changed the formula up a few times in the last couple years, though I suppose Grand Prix to Magic Fest may have been more of just a name change than a
00:01:31
Speaker
actual content change. But we kind of figured this would be a fun episode, especially now. All of the events for 2023 are done. We know the first one in 24, but we don't know what the rest of the 2024 schedule looks like. So it's a fun time to get in and do some speculation, maybe just some talk about what we liked and want to see changed.
00:01:51
Speaker
But introductions.
Host Introductions and Partnerships
00:01:53
Speaker
I guess I'll introduce myself, hand it over for everyone else to introduce, and then I can answer the question. I'm Alex on Twitter at metal underscore chronicler, at least for now. I don't know. We'll see what happens. My pronouns are he, him. We'll see what happens still. Yeah. Hobbs, you want to introduce yourself?
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Hobbs, I can be found on everywhere, I guess, basically looking at Hobbs Q. So Twitter, Blue Skies, other random websites, Friendster, I don't know. Yeah, my pronouns are he him. You did one of the smart things that I didn't do, where you got out early and made your internet identity and then your handle is the same thing everywhere. It does make it really nice. Very much not the case for me.
00:02:44
Speaker
So hi, I'm Taya, a friend under She Here Are They Them. I'm at Taya Transcends pretty much everywhere. We did forget to start off by thanking the Grinding Cough Company. So let's make sure we do that before we go any further. Absolutely. Thank you. Hob, since you're here, do you want to...
00:03:05
Speaker
So that would be a fantastic thing for me to do. So yeah, the Grinding Coffee Company is one of our oldest people that we've worked with and have partnered with. They're a coffee company that really is for gamers. They are LGBT and minority-ran and lead. They are just a fantastic organization.
00:03:26
Speaker
that just provides discounts to mainly streamers. We're one of their only podcast people. And what's nice about that is they're always very willing just for very little effort on our parts, like to just pair with us for events, to give us discount codes and just kind of help us be able to have cool giveaways. Because I really like giving things away that aren't just magic. So I love the Grinding Coffee Company, and I need to order some coffee.
00:03:52
Speaker
Very nice. Love thanking them. Taya, thank you so much for remembering to thank them early. But usually with Hobbs isn't here. It's just like, ah, I don't like coffee, but they keep Hobbs caffeinated and that's wonderful. And they sponsor us for events and they help us get stuff to give.
00:04:08
Speaker
It's great, but I'm glad Hobbs is here to actually talk about it. Keeping Hobbs caffeinated is very important. Very important.
Community and Creativity in Magic Events
00:04:15
Speaker
So for our opening question, because we want to talk about Vegas, the MagicCon Vegas in 2023, kind of this new version, talk about these new events. I was thinking maybe.
00:04:25
Speaker
Why do we go to these? I've been doing magic events since I came back to the game over a decade ago now. Both of you have been going to events for a long time. What's the big thing here?
00:04:41
Speaker
there's a lot of good community stuff. I think the community is a big part of it, but one of the little facets of that that I want to talk about is some of the weird things, the games types and stuff that you can do at big events like this, because there are so many people, there's a critical mass to allow these event coordinators or the community themselves to do some more strange things. And that's one thing that if you
00:05:09
Speaker
know me for magic. There's a lot of, I love to play the game, I love to play normal games of commander or draft and stuff, but what really gets me excited is when I can torture my friends with a homelands draft. Or do things like, one of my favorite events I ever did at a Grand Prix was the first one I went to, 2014.
00:05:31
Speaker
So just about a decade ago, in Orlando, they had a Ice Age draft. It was, I think it was two packs Ice Age, four packs Cold Snap. And there were 17 of us plus one judge. All 17 players were players who played Ice Age when it first came out, what, in 94, I think?
00:05:51
Speaker
And it was just a fun time. It was a sanctioned event technically, but whatever. We were playing sealed. We were just all hanging out and joking around about the guy who got an amulet of quag. And it requires ante. And he's like, judge, can I use this? And it's like, well, no. And so it was just a fun event.
00:06:12
Speaker
Because, again, it was a big, there were a few thousand Magic players getting together for this thing. I believe that one was a Star City Games event. The coordinator was just able to, hey, we're going to do this weird little thing if somebody wants to pay us extra money to do this. And 17 of us were weird enough to say, sure.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, they've had some really weird events besides, you know, Gavin's unknown event, which is the coolest thing they've ever done at magic cons, I think for weird events. But they've also had like the, you know, 36 draft, you know, or 36 sealed of the latest, you know, standard 36 of the latest standard draft packs in one box sort of thing and all kinds of weird stuff like that.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, I was hoping you'd, you'd mentioned the Gavin one, because I know you played that in Minneapolis, right, Taya?
Cosplay and Artists at Magic Cons
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, I got to play that in Minneapolis and Hobbs got to play it in Vegas. I did. And it was funny because that was one of the things I was going to mention. So yeah, I think it's great Alex bringing up these events because those sorts of things to me are just wild. The things that you don't get to do other places.
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah, or I know there's a few things that Minneapolis are talking about like, like you're saying tail like the full box seals or they had like chaos draft or not chaos draft, but like chaos bag seal was like here is 48 but random booster. I think they had it preset, but it was like, yeah, this set to this set to this set.
00:07:44
Speaker
Here's 48 packs we needed to get rid of. You've got some dragon's maze. I still genuinely, honestly have a sealed box of dragon's maze. I want to trap triple dragon's maze with some unfortunate souls one of these days. How about you two? Well, I'm pretty sure I know what Hobbs is going to say. I mean, obviously, I think
00:08:08
Speaker
The community is the most important thing for all of us, so I'm assuming we're all picking something different. I think I know what Hobbs is going to talk about, so I'm going to pick something different. The weird events are definitely also one of the things that I considered saying, so you beat me to that one.
00:08:28
Speaker
So I'm going to say right now it's the cosplayers. Getting to see all the cosplayers is definitely worth it. I'm glad that they're finally making the cosplay contest a big center stage of that, and we'll talk about more of that later.
00:08:44
Speaker
Um, but i've always enjoyed them being there even before they got paid to You know traveler appearance fees and I still don't get anything that covers their trip or anything But the award winners now at least get something that makes it worth their time and effort but most of what we're doing is they love doing cosplay and you know, they love doing it because they enjoy doing it and they're not they're not getting
00:09:11
Speaker
nearly what it costs to ship their cosplays and make them and everything covered to these events. They're doing it because they love doing it. And, uh, we have some, just so many great community members that are in the cosplay community. And I love that. Uh, and the, you know, the new magic cons where they have these big cosplay
00:09:35
Speaker
dioramas where you have these sets that are set up that look like the various planes have been fantastic. Yeah, the interactive kind of sets where you can do where you can get photos taken with cosplayers or get your own just photo taken on say like the throne of L drain was the one for Magic Con Vegas. I don't remember what Minneapolis was.
00:09:58
Speaker
They had a few little things. I don't know if there's any specific like that, but there was the like Dominaria study. Yeah. The shiven dragon hanging from the ceiling. That would be pictures of with yourself, but that was a cool thing.
00:10:15
Speaker
Yeah and that we can get into more later too but the putting more emphasis on cosplayers help you know doing more with them like the prize is actually being worth it and um but also just making that a centerpiece of the event is I think super cool of course but also it's it's an interesting that's a lot of what like fan conventions have all we're already doing for other fandoms yep
00:10:39
Speaker
And so I think that's going to be part of our conversation later in this episode of like things where it looks like lessons that are being taken from other places where there are similar events or events similar to what they're trying to do and bringing some of that into the magics events.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Moving us more to actual cons, which we're going to that's, I mean, that's basically the topic of this. And it's going to be hitting very well on a callback to some of our early episodes where we, we talked about some of this, uh, but I guess I need to answer. So now I got to hope that I did not disappoint Taya. I don't think I'm going to, uh, it's having the artist at the event. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, it was.
00:11:22
Speaker
That was my number one, but I was leaving it for you. Well, I appreciate that. But I mean, it's true. Like, I mean, I...
00:11:30
Speaker
We talked about this a long time ago. It used to be very small. It was basically like RK posts, maybe one or two other people. Vegas would have a few more, but now we're really getting full-on artist alleys. You mentioned cons, Alex. It makes me think of when I used to go to San Diego Comic Con, that there was an artist alley. And they have lines of people waiting
00:11:55
Speaker
for them too where one or two people waiting to talk to the artist and now there's long lines of people that are waiting to talk or buy stuff from the artist. Yeah, which is great. The artists are making money. And the event is set up in a way where they can have those long lines without being disruptive to everybody too because they're planning that and have the logistics set up and worked out.
00:12:24
Speaker
Yeah, and we're seeing an explosion in the proof market. So I'm seeing a lot more people now when I'm in line buying proofs and paying the prices and the proof prices are going up as I think they should. I'm always in favor of artists getting paid, right? It may change my own what I'm able to buy and I'll talk about that a little bit with Vegas and my budget.
00:12:47
Speaker
But like, it's not because the prices are unreasonable with these artists are moving up to charging. It's that people actually, there's actually much more of a demand now that the artists can justify that. I mean, it's funny to think about that it used to be, people got like really upset when artists started charging for their signature, right? Yeah, people were like, what? You want me to pay for a signature? I was like,
00:13:13
Speaker
It was like the bare minimum for you to be able to do. Like you're plopping down like 30, 40 cards. And now I'm still seeing people plop down that cards, but they have, I'm not hearing, I'm not hearing any chatter about paying for a signature. Yeah. I mean, if you get one of the really fancy signatures, some of them are like 10, 15 bucks for signature. If you want the like super fancy.
00:13:34
Speaker
Like the rainbow chrome colors. They're like, they're cool too. They look fantastic. Aaron Miller's rainbow signature is one of the greatest things I've seen on a card, right? It's so good. And he charges for it, right? But people are not complaining about that because normally- It takes some time. Yeah.
00:13:52
Speaker
He deserves to get paid for that time. And it used to be that wasn't the expectation. Artists were just there. They think this is probably one of the bigger changes, but this is what led to a boycott by artists of one point of the events. Because if you remember rightly, Alex, that was what was going on when Titus was on the show. Because they were basically vendors paying for a slot and it wasn't worth it because they weren't able to take home the money.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah, they were paying the vendors, I don't know if it was exactly, but yeah, like you said, they were paying like the vendors were, but they didn't have a whole table full of merchandise. So a lot of what they were doing was signing cards and selling some things. But people were complaining about that too.
00:14:37
Speaker
I mean, I saw prints, I see prints going off, special things like Justine Jones doing metal tokens. Artists are doing special for each event. They're doing exclusives. Yeah, and that used to be a thing that I saw RK Post doing, but no one else. RK Post and Mark Teeden started a lot of this where they would go to every event and start these special items per event.
00:15:06
Speaker
Well, it's become super common. So, yeah. So, you know, Tay was completely right. That is where I was going to go unless it had been stolen. So, but yeah, so, you know, we're kind of starting this from this
Evolution of Magic Conventions
00:15:21
Speaker
discussion. I kind of already brought it up a little bit that years ago we had this conversation, we started to have some of this conversation with Titus Lunder. I mean, this is year one of the podcast, five years ago.
00:15:32
Speaker
what we were talking about, right? Like events were still at that point, tournaments with some artists there, some cost players there. And some vendors. Some vendors, but like they weren't really supported. There was no support, right? Like it was, you paid to get yourself to the event. You did it because you enjoyed it. Um, it didn't make sense for the artists. And we talked a lot about what we would like to see change.
00:15:59
Speaker
And a big part of what we wanted to see change was basically magic events were moving towards casualness. I mean, the pandemic really sped this up because commander emerged is like the defining factor and the thing that was in some ways saving magic because it was what was causing stuff to still get sold. It was the dominant format that was being played over online, right? Like Arena and MTGO, there weren't high level
00:16:29
Speaker
like paper tournaments because the logistics on that would be a nightmare that you were doing 1v1. Spell table emerged, commander as it was, it was more like what Mark Rosewater has always said. Casual players was what really drives the money in the game.
00:16:45
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and you can see some of that. They were definitely trying to change the events before, but like you said, it accelerated because that's where they were originally events were just called Grand Prix. It was Grand Prix Orlando that I went to with the thing that was happening was the tournament. And because we had this many people here for the tournament, well, I guess we'll also do some side events for people.
00:17:07
Speaker
And right before the pandemic, they just hosted their first series of Standalone Command Fest. Yep. And they did the name change, was it 2019 where they shifted to Magic Fest? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think that was- Right, but the focus there was the- Yeah, the events and side of events was it. Yeah, it was still a big tournament.
00:17:29
Speaker
The structure of the events didn't change much, but I think, and I want to say we mentioned this somewhere on the podcast, but who knows, it's hard. There's a lot of episodes when we say a lot of things. But I believe we were saying something like, it feels like they're pushing towards
00:17:47
Speaker
more of a convention thing, but they still have the structure of the tournaments that they're kind of not stuck with. But this is what they have. And I don't think they want it at the time, at least I don't think they wanted to change too quickly. But they definitely seem they were looking to change that. And then the pandemic forced them to
00:18:08
Speaker
go to zero, which allowed them to kind of reboot much with a much larger change than I think they would have done, maybe in that period of time without something forcing them to stop the events and restart them. Oh, I think so.
00:18:24
Speaker
I mean, because because even then when we were talking about like the the magic fest themselves, like you were saying, Alex, there still was not an emphasis on just free play area, where people were paying a fee to get in the event, right? And then you could do whatever.
00:18:41
Speaker
you know that you could just there wasn't like tables you would still be getting moved right well you didn't they didn't have the pay to get anything until they started the command fest that was when they started the pay to get it and then they did have the that was when they had the dedicated play area for i didn't think it's separate at that too when the first one because it was like a command zone that you pay yeah they had the command zone inside the grand prix and that was like dedicated play space that you had to pay for right
00:19:10
Speaker
And then they had the command fest which was like an event that was like Richmond that I went to Yeah, there was one in Seattle and that was that was that those were focused solely on commander Those weren't attached to a larger Grand Prix or anything or like a world championship or a pro tour event or right like because because these magic cons have had not only if they had
00:19:32
Speaker
Like a big tournament, like there was a, there was like a main event tournament in Vegas, but there was world championships going on, right? Like there were turned to like very high level tournament play. However, that was in its own area and it was not the focus. I will tell you that, right? Like people knew what was going on. I mean, the top eight was absolutely stacked, but people were not really focusing on that event.
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and that was some of the structure with Minneapolis too. And I don't know how things were set up in Vegas, maybe get more into the Vegas event. But in Minneapolis here, they had two areas set up for the first time. Like when they've done events in Minneapolis before, they had one, just one big space. The GP would happen in one area, they'd set up, you know, the events they're firing off in other areas. And then if you were a casual player, you just grabbed whatever seat you could find and hope you didn't get kicked.
00:20:22
Speaker
while you were playing a game. But this one, they had the same amount of space that would have been the entire event was just the competitive event.
00:20:34
Speaker
in Minneapolis and with that like creator zone in the front. Yeah, that was the size of where there was a whole other room that was three times that size that had everything else going on. And that kind of threw me off like the first day trying to meet up with someone I think it was me trying to meet up with you, Taya. And I was in the wrong room because I'm just like, Oh, yeah, this is the event. This is the room. And
00:21:02
Speaker
I was wrong on this couple of many things. Yeah, that was big. Minneapolis is definitely the biggest one. It was even bigger than the pre-COVID Vegas conventions, and those were big. Those were the closest thing prior to this, where we actually had an artist alley. There was a little bit more dedicated space. The art show had shown up one year. Mike did the art show, I think, 17, 15, 17.
00:21:30
Speaker
There might have been as much space at the COVID one or the post COVID Vegas last fall, but it was spread out between two buildings. Yep. And unless we even knew where the other building was, you didn't know there was like a whole nother free place space in another building away from the main convention space because they
00:21:51
Speaker
scheduled it last minute and had it a really awful location. Oh, it was, yeah, it was at the, where they had the first Vegas actually. Um, it's the one right by the, like the university of Las Vegas, not at the convention center itself. It's a convention center. It's not the Las Vegas convention center. Yeah. Yeah. It's where they actually held the very first Vegas, which I can tell you from them doing something like that and attempting something like that, that was 2013. Mm-hmm.
00:22:20
Speaker
it was a shit show. Like that they sent out the the GP, which they had never done in a GP previously. Yeah. And then people were showing up for side events. And they like they were running people as you said to like this for the one back in 2013. They were trying to even find a place to fire side events. And they were running out of product. And yeah, like I remember hearing stories about that.
00:22:46
Speaker
GP Vegas 2013 opens like two thirds of all the modern masters 2013 product that ever existed. Yeah. Yeah. It was wild. I got the, I got there at like five in the morning to stand in line so that we could get the play mat and promo card. Cause they literally ran out of them within like the first two hours. Wow. I mean, it was wild, right? Like, I mean, that was the first example of them first realizing what, how big something like that could be.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah. And then I went to, I think it was the next Vegas. I don't think they did one in 14. They did 15 and 17. They started doing them every other year. I went to 15 and 17. I missed 19 because, uh, family stuff. Yep. Yeah.
00:23:31
Speaker
Yeah. I, 15 was the one I went to. And I remember that because that was one, it was silent. It was modern masters again, or not modern masters. Yeah. Modern masters again. And they did three. Well, that was the three simultaneous GPs, right? Because then 17 was when they ran like a legacy, a sealed and a modern GP.
00:23:55
Speaker
Well, and in Vegas, yeah, I remember them doing that. But they also have a tournament still, right? It was GPs. It was all big tournaments. GPs at once. We're going to have an artist alley, but yeah. It was like a tiny little corner in this huge massive convention center.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah, and it's because they knew there was going to be a critical mass of people for these bigger tournaments. And these Vegas events, I think were the biggest events that they've had. Oh, they were definitely the biggest events. Yeah, then you would have more artists like I remember I went to in 2015. I went so I did Orlando and 14 in October, and then Vegas in May of 15. And Charlotte in June of 15.
00:24:40
Speaker
And Vegas had so many more artists, so many more vendors, because there was going to be more people, they could support that. There was a table, I think it was a store, they might have been selling cards and things, but most of what they had, they're from Europe, they were selling play mats from all the European GPs that people in the US just couldn't get easy access to.
00:25:02
Speaker
So I mean, like, so like we had this kind of evolution happening and, you know, they had done some stuff with really moving away from the Pro Tour. They were doing like eSports kind of related elements, like much more was being won even at big events on Arena.
00:25:17
Speaker
And like I said, the pandemic, I think really hasten this until we hit these actual what are being called magic cons, right? Which started in Vegas, if I recall last year, right? Last year. Yeah, was the first one. We went from there to Philly. We started getting on top of the elements we've already been talking about with the play space area, actually getting more panels. And these were the first events you had to pay to get in the door, which I think is important to
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the command command fest you had to as well those you did But these were the first one. These were were the first ones they started running in conjunction with repop Yes, mmm actual convention company. Like if people don't know they run. Yeah, they run Star Wars convention. Yeah Star Wars That's like I had the name. I want to say Star Wars experience, but that's wrong. But yeah, the big annual Star Wars thing. I
00:26:15
Speaker
So, you know, like, so we get that, um, you know, uh, Philly, they have, they have panelists. It's all, but that's all main stage. They have one main stage, right? And all the panels are streamed. They're all ran there. They're actually like a lot of them are company, but they have some invited guests. So things like game nights, rustic studies, you know, they they've got, well, I think in Philly had a Philadelphia. Yeah.
00:26:44
Speaker
And so we came out of that into Minneapolis, right? That's what we know. And Minneapolis was the first time that they added another element, which is what we got to do. Because those were the first time they had fan led panels.
00:26:57
Speaker
Right now we're really starting to hit on a convention. Like you have choices to make between things going on at the same time, right? Multiple programming things, particularly from like a fan convention. Like there's some media stuff where media conventions where you wouldn't have as much of that, but some of the big fan conventions, like it's all like.
00:27:18
Speaker
Like community panels and community programs. Yeah, it's like I help run OrcaCon here in the Seattle area every January. And, you know, that's like what we do is, you know, we have a, we have a panel room that competes against game schedules and everything else. And, you know, that's part of what you have to do is you have to decide what, you know, what schedules you're going to go up against and what content you want to see while you're at the con. Yeah. And you start to get a little programs and then that starts to become.
00:27:50
Speaker
like you're using an app to like sign up for events. Yeah, to keep track of your panels that you want to go to. And, you know, I think that
00:28:00
Speaker
I don't remember if we got a chance to discuss this, but we ran into the awkwardness that they put. There was a decent number of fan panels, but then they ended up taking us and then the two diversity building inclusive gaming and building diverse worlds within your space or within your game because it was people from Wizards and other people who had done world building. And they stuck us all back to back to back in the same room.
00:28:27
Speaker
You know, not streamed, not, uh, you know, we didn't really know what was kind of going on and what we were allowed to do or not do. We're up against the pro tour finals. We're up against, um, Gavin. We ran right up to Gavin. Yeah. And we had some issues with.
00:28:48
Speaker
There are just some logistical things about what it means to have fan run panels, to actually have panels. Even small things like finding someone to unlock the room was like, you know, it's just like, they're like, oh, you need to get in here? And like, yes, we sort of have to present. We would really like to set up our stuff. Yeah, we would like to be in the panel room as opposed to giving this presentation in the hallway.
00:29:18
Speaker
Ooh, I don't know. Well, anyway, so that's where we kind of left Minneapolis, right? They went to Barcelona. Barcelona, they added in, there's been some night parties and stuff added. Yeah, that's been something they've had for a long time where they've always had VIP level parties. It's something that I've tended to always get
00:29:46
Speaker
you know, that package that comes with that and then I never go because it's up past my bedtime. And there's too many people.
00:29:59
Speaker
I'm too shy to talk to people. I went to one of the ones in Vegas and I was just awkwardly standing around the whole time. That's fair. I remember it being with the one in Minneapolis, it was like the Black Lotus and the VIP packages. Yeah, that was the same night as your barbecue. Of course, I was going to your barbecue instead of some random party. Which I appreciate. People should realize that going to a cookout at Hobbs' queue is better than a VIP experience.
00:30:26
Speaker
Well, I can't say that after Vegas but we'll get to that.
00:30:34
Speaker
Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. Barcelona, I obviously don't know as much about.
Global Expansion and Accessibility
00:30:39
Speaker
It was in Spain, so doing it in Europe, that's a cool huge thing. We're not doing it in just the US. It's going to be interesting to see this year what they do. I think having places not in the US market is a fantastic idea. Barcelona seemed well attended from everything I could watch and saw. I feel bad for people in APAC keep posting like, what about us?
00:31:02
Speaker
it up
00:31:21
Speaker
They had more time to plan it than they did Vegas last year, but I think they still had short enough of a window that it was just like, we can't do more than this one outside of the US because they're a US-based company. They absolutely have done historically done a lot of events in Europe and Asia and all over the place, but it's just like, I think in that short of time, they didn't have the ability to run more.
00:31:48
Speaker
I don't think, I really don't think they're going to run more than four a year. I'll be surprised that they do because I think they're going to keep it tied to the pro tour and world championship. I think it's, I think that's a smart idea. I don't think you want to do more than about one a quarter.
00:32:05
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. See, I'm kind of hoping they do more simply. And I don't think they'll do nearly what they used to, because one of the reasons that those events were also small is because there were so many, when you're running 50 events a year, you can't put the same resources as you can in four. Yeah, there was there, there used to be when they did the grand priest system, there was one almost every weekend, and there was, you know, smaller regional ones, and then
00:32:32
Speaker
much larger, like the Vegas ones were always huge. Yeah. And that's like the Minneapolis ones were usually fairly small. Yeah. Because we're just in the middle of the country. There's, and we'd get, you know, a good number of artists would come up, but like you wouldn't get a lot of the people from Europe would, wouldn't come here unless there was a pro tour the next weekend. And then you'd get some people come to Minneapolis so that they're in the US to go to already testing for the pro tour event. And
00:32:58
Speaker
Yeah, both, both the players, but also you'd get some of the vendors and, and artists would do that where they'd be like, well, I want to show up for the big event in Vegas, but the week before I can show up the week before and go to this other smaller city and hit both. So I really think doing more than about four dilutes the events to a level that you're not going to get the experience that they need to do Vegas every year though. So I honestly think that they could, they could.
00:33:27
Speaker
swap that one out, but I have a feeling they are going to do Vegas. That's, that's fair. And, and it's, it, it makes sense. And especially like we don't, I don't know almost anything about read pop, but I'm, I'm wonder if there's some capacity there too.
00:33:49
Speaker
We have a very strong contingent of, say, cosplayers and those cosplayers being able to come to every event. If you get more than about four events a year for those cosplayers, it's just not going to happen. Absolutely. My concern, why I hope we have more is accessibility.
00:34:09
Speaker
It's going to be very hard, I'll be perfectly honest, it's going to be very hard for me to go to events that aren't in Minneapolis, especially if I'm doing other things. We're talking a little bit behind the scenes about next year if we want to try to meet up for something, and I'd love to, but if I have to travel, that's going to strain my finances when I'm trying to do other things.
00:34:35
Speaker
And there's a lot of people who are in a similar situation, especially outside of the US. There's a lot of outside of the US that I...
00:34:44
Speaker
It's a thing like they should only do what they can like support. And I really like the event of what I saw at Minneapolis. And I hope they continue to do events, learning those lessons. So like to be learning the lessons, but continuing to aim as high as they did from Minneapolis and some of these other events. I'm just hopeful that they do it in a way that more people can go to these who wants to go.
00:35:06
Speaker
So I think we're going to keep seeing a lot more of the regional command fest. Yeah. And then see the magic on, you know, four times a year. Yeah. And, uh, that's fair. And, and that allays a lot of that. If, if, if you kind of create a couple of different types of events, as opposed to again, previously where they had one event and they would do this one type of event everywhere, it's just sometimes Vegas was bigger than all of the others.
00:35:35
Speaker
Because of the nature. Yeah, that was the only one that was four days instead of three and all of that other stuff. So I will say that I was just getting ready to say exactly what Taya did. I think we're going to get the command fest. Like we already know about some of those, right? Like there's ones coming up I think in Florida. There's a couple of them coming up.
00:35:57
Speaker
I think that's where we're going to see Alex more of what you're kind of saying. And I went to one of those with Richmond still had an artist, like they had still had strong artists representation. It was a decent amount of gaming space. There was still some cost players, but it was a much more manageable. Actually, it was a lot more manageable. If you're somebody that is maybe worried about being a bit overwhelmed, because I will say between Minneapolis and Vegas, it felt like going to like
00:36:23
Speaker
convention in the sense of it was packed, right? Like it was very busy all four days in Vegas. The merch line I couldn't even I never hopped in it. To get like the specialized merch if I didn't have I think for Minneapolis ta I think I borrowed your black lotus so I could do because they have like that sideline. But a regular line I would struggle to want to go into when I was in Vegas like it was it was
00:36:48
Speaker
It was massive. I mean, we're already hearing about what happened with the IHOP collaboration. And I will tell you, that was fantastic. I did. I mean, I think it was on like a video I was watching from Mental Misplay talking to one of the creators. I think it was to Jim LaPage from the RC slash Spike Feeders, where he had been talking to the creator people that that IHOP approached magic when they learned that magic had a stack.
00:37:15
Speaker
Oh my god. Okay, so the sleeves, the sleeves, if I want it, Chase got a set of them and they've put them on their deck like right away. But the sleeves say stack master instead of deck master on the back of them and have like a pancake and then they were giving out plus one plus one counters that were pancakes.
00:37:33
Speaker
Nice. But like those, you had to be one of the first 15, 20 people in for the
Exclusive Collaborations and Market Dynamics
00:37:39
Speaker
day, right? Like you had to be in line. That had to be the first thing that you ran to. And I mean, I guess it was a little bit deeper than that because there was like a couple of options you could choose from, but we're already seeing a set of like the plus one plus one counters. I saw a set sold on Facebook and one of the Facebook groups for 300 and something dollars. A set of sleeves was like 64 sleeves.
00:38:01
Speaker
Was like 125 was the was the bid when I looked at a set, right? The thing is, I'm used to this from something like San Diego Comic Con. Yeah, right. We're not used to this in the magic world. Other than San Diego Comic Con magic cards. That's because we had a presence there. But I mean, at like a magic event.
00:38:24
Speaker
We are not used to exclusives to this level. The TARDIS promo card is going for close to 100. All you have to do is stand in line and get your photo taken with the TARDIS. I was bummed I missed that one. Yeah, I was glad I remembered to go backing up my card because we took my squee photo with it before.
00:38:43
Speaker
It opened. So we didn't have to like worry about too long of a line. They still let me do it. But I mean, we're starting to see some things like that that are, that are showing up, right? Like these collaborations, like the IHOP collaboration, I will say was absolutely fantastically well done. It was well received, but like you're already hearing about scalpers. You're already hearing about things getting resold that were exclusives. Oh, yeah. I mean, and they've had the con exclusive secret layers at each one too, where there's only like 300 of them at each con.
00:39:13
Speaker
Like we had the Minneapolis, like flyers, not that kind. I think it was, no, I'm talking about the ones that they give out to random people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So like there's 300, two 95, I think, or two 93 or something that they gave out. Right. So like these things are, are exclusives. Um, they're giving out specialized promos that are only available at these events for like winning events, like the ragavan, um,
00:39:41
Speaker
There's like the J's that you get for participating in the world championships and then top eight gets. Um, so there's more of these con type experiences that I think if you want them, you're going to go to something like Vegas. If you want more of a gathering that is casual, that, that.
00:40:00
Speaker
You don't have to have a tournament attached to it. Command Fest is where I think you're going to get that. Alex kind of, I think what you're describing, but they're not going to have the command fest Seattle too. Like they had a, they had, um, sealed box, um, league where you got a random sealed commander box, uh, to play games with. And that was a lot of fun. And they, I remember when I went to Richmond, they had some cool kind of side events like that, but they're not having the panels. They're not having, yeah, they're not having a lot of the con stuff. It was, yeah, like you said.
00:40:30
Speaker
There's a few cosplayers and a few artists, you know, being Seattle, I think we had more artists than most of those probably. There are a lot of artists that are just based in Seattle. So not having traveled makes a big difference.
00:40:45
Speaker
talk a little bit about Vegas and talk about some of the changes I saw from Minneapolis to Vegas at that. Like, so like the carryovers that were there were amazing. Like I finally got to do Gavin's unknown event and I'm with Taya. That was probably some of the most fun I've had in a magic
00:41:04
Speaker
game event like it was just wild to see they added the extra layer of Gavin had done a panel that morning to the design. Yeah, they rented them off and got them and handed us to those were like our promo cards that we could use.
00:41:23
Speaker
So they designed a card that day and then we got to use it. And there were some new cards for Vegas, but it was also the hits from all the other ones. And the Unknown Event is just wildly successful. I think that's kind of an issue only in the sense of they continued with that theme of running one on Sunday at noon when they have put some of their fan panels
00:41:47
Speaker
And like that is he literally sold out and I think they had even increased the number of slots. I think the one I did on 600 at each, I think he said on his video. Yeah. Yeah. 600 people. Right. Like I understand these things are huge, but when it's a charity event, I think that so on Sunday again, they put us. So we were on Sunday again. We were the first one on Sunday. So for the mental health related panel, um,
00:42:15
Speaker
following us was the Ixalan world building with like Latin American players and like players from those countries. That was up against Gavin's, followed by the like D&D world one shot with Michelle, like Kathleen from LLR, Shivam. Those were once again up against
00:42:41
Speaker
up against Gavin's unknown event. This one had a doubly awkward thing and I felt really bad, especially for that panel at 1230 doing the world building and it kind of being a diversity panel again, because not only was it up against that, it was up against the memorial for Sheldon, which yeah, we didn't know the full details, but even if it wasn't, that was going to be a conversation with Sheldon.
00:43:05
Speaker
Right? That was the plan. The video, it was plan C. Like plan one was him to be there. Plan B was to live stream him. Plan C was to have a prerecorded video. And that wasn't even thinking about death, but thinking about him not being able to trap, like not be able to even do like a live stream just because of oxygen and everything else.
00:43:29
Speaker
So they knew that was going to be there. And this is where I think I'm hoping that was feedback we gave after Minneapolis. Like, hey, these these really cool fan panels, putting them on the last day of the thing and then putting them up against Gavin's unknown event and then whatever else is going on. It's really difficult to do, like spread those out. And unfortunately, I don't think that happened because I think those ones that were on Sunday compared to some of the other ones that I did see that were more of the fan that some of the other fan panels.
00:43:57
Speaker
had similar elements again. And I really, like I said, I really felt for any putting Gavin's unknown event and Sheldon's and Sheldon's Memorial or Sheldon's Sheldon's conversation at the same time was rough. Yeah, and it's, it's always going to be things up against each other. Yes. And it's, I don't know if this makes any sense. But I think as they get
00:44:25
Speaker
running these more and they get more comfortable running these and they start to expand the content, it may feel less like things are being singled out, if that makes any sense, if there's just kind of more things to do in general. Because when there's two things to do, you're like, oh, you're putting these two against each other. But when there's like three and a half or four and a half or five different things, you kind of like you go to where you want to go. And if you're less like that,
00:44:52
Speaker
just help not to cram all the diversity talks into one block because people aren't going to sit for that whole block anyways. Yeah, absolutely. That's where the like you said, Alex, they're still learning. I think the problem is, after having given the feedback last time,
00:45:09
Speaker
It felt like doing it again almost feels not great because there was that opportunity to make a change. And I think that where it felt not great was that we weren't the only ones who gave that feedback after last time. And it looks bad. It just looks bad because it's the
00:45:33
Speaker
We invited people to the table, but we, we did it in a way that kind of sets them up to not do well. Um, so like these were the, the things that I struggled with the most, uh, the changes from Minneapolis to now, they made that creator area that they had first started in Minneapolis where you could like go and like creators kind of like an hour, like signing time.
Improvements and Unique Experiences at Magic Con
00:45:54
Speaker
They made that a really cool whole area and they attached the like free play command zone to it.
00:46:02
Speaker
Oh, no, this creator area was like the creator area was a focal point of the downstairs area. See, that makes sense. Because they had the creator area in the pro tour area at Minneapolis, which are like, yeah, it just.
00:46:17
Speaker
There wasn't the traffic you want them right with the commander players and all the other players that are actually gonna see them So they they did they did a great job. They had the ticketed events off kind of in the back They moved that up to the front the creators were front and center They were they had them with these blocks where they were able to just like they they gave him so much product to give away So everybody was sitting down to meet the creators They were giving creators certain like reserved desk or reserved commander
00:46:46
Speaker
table so that they could even after their hour was over, they could keep playing games and like that area. So that to me was done fantastically. So putting those together and then moving the pro tour was basically the World Championships was upstairs kind of off in its own area in the way back of the hall. So we were on two separate floors and they took up both of those floors, which is wild. I mean, I thought it was big in Minneapolis. I mean, it was obviously Vegas, but like it was huge.
00:47:14
Speaker
the upstairs, you kind of had like all the vendors, you had the main stage where people could watch things and then you had the whole art area all there as well. For me, the fun thing that I didn't think would be fun was honestly, and I don't know, like, I guess this could be something that randomly they could keep doing, was going to a party DJ by Elijah Wood. That's right.
00:47:41
Speaker
Like your Frodo costume, or not your Frodo, you do have your Squeak costume. Yeah, I was talking, you mentioned you were dancing to Frodo as Squeak. Dancing to Frodo as Squeak is one of the most surreal, well, well, Scrapper Ferret, our buddy Matt, is in a Johnny wearing boxers, a pair of red heart boxers. Classic.
00:48:06
Speaker
Classic Red Hearts. I mean, it was wild. Like, I swear to God, Elijah Wood has the best life in the sense of like, I feel like that dude made the movies he wanted to make, he made money, and now he does whatever he wants to do.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah. And what he wants to do is DJ a Magic the Gathering dance party with like weird, Shiba and I were talking that it was like the prom that like half of us probably didn't have like late 80s, early 90s. They went into Enya at one point, like say I was playing like it was wild. That's awesome.
00:48:46
Speaker
I mean, I think that was a, I don't know how the VIP things have been in the past. Like this was just open. Like it was 60 bucks. You got a collector booster out of it. And I like, I wasn't sure I was actually on the fence about this. And I have to say that I'm really glad that I went. Um, I also want to say I am very, very glad that I dressed up as Squeak. Uh, I gotta tell you all, it was, it was very, it was a lot of fun. Um, I,
00:49:16
Speaker
Being able to combine that ski mask with the rest of it really adds a level, I will say. I literally watched people all day long get lost in their conversation when I walked by. I heard conversations stop and people have to apologize. That's awesome. It was so much fun to do. And this is where I want to say thank you to the cosplay community.
00:49:43
Speaker
We've had a fair number of the people from that community on the show. We've talked about them. We've hung out with them at events. One of our first guests early on was Olivia, Tappy, Matt, and Jen. There's all these new cosplayers on the scene, but there's still such a force there. Getting to meet so many of the cosplayers through them, and even in Minneapolis getting to do that,
00:50:12
Speaker
I like felt like I was like I walked out in what to be is a much more ridiculous cosplay than anything else. Like I bought a red robe off of like Poshmark. It was definitely a woman's like nightgown robe for the slumber party. I put a green suit on and like I had the mask with with a
00:50:33
Speaker
with my like crown, I was getting pulled in to do photos with who I consider to be these players, right? Like they were so just like, giving me the competence to want to like, join it to like, want to come back to like want to do this.
00:50:52
Speaker
And that's a thing as a random aside, maybe not random aside, it's sort of related, but that's an important part of all this. The community is on board with all this. It's a big deal that Wizards is like, let's do some events like this, but the community is part of that. The magic cosplay community, as myself, someone who has never done any cosplay at all, and I don't have any interest in doing it myself,
00:51:17
Speaker
But I think it's super cool. I love it. I love that people do this, and it is incredible. But it's really interesting to me how the magic cosplay community is building and supporting itself, because it's so small compared to a lot of other conventions. You go to an anime convention, and there is a substantially larger percentage of the population doing cosplay of some kind.
00:51:45
Speaker
people are dressed up, even if it's even if it's more like what I did. Yeah, like you have a large population of people, even if it's smaller things like what you did, all the way up to some of the big ridiculously elaborate things. There's a friend of mine, this is just a local convention at convergence is has a high cosplay thing. A friend of mine, she built howls moving castle as a costume that was so big, it required five people to take it apart so she could go through doors.
00:52:15
Speaker
Wow. And she just built that and like that is part of the cult, now she's kind of on the extreme end, but that's part of that cosplay culture that exists in some of these other fandoms that is much newer in magic, but is growing because we have some incredible people who put a lot of work into both what they do themselves, but also support each other and support people who are interested in it.
00:52:39
Speaker
100% absolute. People say that, right? There's sometimes that image, I think, from larger fandoms. You hear people talk about, oh, yeah, worried about cosplayers being welcoming. I gotta tell you, I had people coming up and going out of their way, people that I know, cosplayers I know, to help me. They were so glad that I had done this. My plan was to wear it for a little while, for a couple of hours, kind of what I did. I wanted to see how it was. I used to do a lot of theater and I miss it.
00:53:06
Speaker
But it was wild to walk around. I think my favorite thing was walking around knowing how many people absolutely, as soon as they saw it, knew that it was me. You have such a clear brand. Yeah. It is funny to know that that is... I walked up at one point and an RK post said something. He's like, yeah, are you shocked that I knew it was you? It was like, absolutely not.
00:53:32
Speaker
No, I am not shocked in the least that people have correctly guessed this. Nobody walked up and was like, oh, oh, it's Hobbs. I'm shocked, right? Like there was no, like, oh, yeah. No, I had people that didn't know that I was dressing up that flat out just picked me up. They're like, that's Hobbs.
00:53:53
Speaker
But the decision to go to a dance party as that is just not something I would have thought of doing. And yet, it was incredibly just a whole other aspect that I got to experience. And I would not have felt comfortable if it hadn't have been my experience with cosplayers previously. At Richmond, at Minneapolis, at Vegas in the past.
00:54:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think that is one of the things that I think as you said, Alex, the way that they you, you both talked about this with the elaborate almost like sets, like the Eldraine set, like they had a throne up there, they had, like, Olivia is a re taking photos with people, right? Like the glass, like Apple, there was food set up, they, it is theatrical, and it is experiential. And you need conflict walking around to make it that
00:54:49
Speaker
I gotta tell you, my favorites, there was some, they did a lot of the cosplayers, a group of them did the baseball ones. So they all did like the baseballs. I saw some of that, some pictures from that. The ginger, the Sir Ginger absolutely crushed it. Like with a pitchfork chasing like any Garrett cosplayer around at all times. That was amazing. But I mean, there was just so many cosplays and
00:55:20
Speaker
people were getting their photos taken with them in front of like the shim and dragon in the things they had the dinosaur that you could crawl back on again they brought that back they had the TARDIS there right like you create these experiences of things to do yeah and the reverse
00:55:39
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That's part of making it a bigger event. And I'll say some of the conventions I go to haven't had things like that. But that's one of the advantages of this being run by the company that does the game is they have the ability to do some of those things. But you're building like you're kind of saying, Hobbs, you're building experiences that you can't have other places. And it's great to sit down and play magic. I love playing magic. Those events are great places to do it because you can get enough people there.
00:56:08
Speaker
But building these things outside of the game that just can't be done outside of these events is also important to making them worth going to and worth paying for.
00:56:21
Speaker
This is where it blew my mind because I knew that I was picking something that, and I'm sure people may listen to this and they're going to think that I'm being completely or being self-deprecating or downplaying. But I really was not, I did not know what to expect going as Squee in the way that I did. I knew I was very much doing a costume that was really me just putting together items. There wasn't sewing involved. I wasn't doing anything like that.
00:56:46
Speaker
I had so many people, I got yelled squee or my liege across like rooms. I had somebody that wanted me to record saying like chow to their friend and their Italian friend to videotape it, to send to them. So like squee saying chow basically. I had people asking to stop and take my picture. I didn't know what to expect.
00:57:13
Speaker
I'm disappointed because I was already ordering us the supplies to do goblin bowling team. Yeah. I mean, if we ever, if we ever do another con where we're all three there, I totally would be up here. Pressure, peer pressure. No, I was going to say though that, you know, I did a.
00:57:39
Speaker
I did a closet Hikara cosplay at Command Fest Seattle in 2019, just kind of grabbing some very ractus-looking wig and a really ractus-looking jacket and stuff that I had out of my closet. No one would recognize it as Hikara unless you actually asked me, but people could recognize that I was cosplaying something just to be how ridiculous I looked.
00:58:02
Speaker
Um, you know, uh, it's something I'd love to do more of though, but I need to have a professional make me something, but I always thought I did, but you know, it just sounds how positive you did from just throwing some stuff together. You know, that's so awesome. Yeah. And so like, uh, I mean, those elements were, like I said, the art stuff that was interesting was, um,
00:58:23
Speaker
i saw some proofs that were like so dakota so he's the one who did the the goblin so wizard of bard she also made the ski mask um he did the goblin ones and his prices have gone up and they were selling out in a heartbeat like uh the goblins were 100 each
00:58:40
Speaker
Yeah. He pre-sketched them, which is fantastic too. Cause like I want them sketched, but like this is the whole thing is like more artists are doing things like having ones in their binders pre-sketched. So unless you want like a very specific commission, you can get it right there.
00:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, I bought a bunch of pre-sketch John Avon ones in Minneapolis because it was like, when else are you going to be able to get a sketch John Avon artist? Yeah, he's not going to have time at the show to do them. The guy has slammed the whole time he's at the show.
00:59:11
Speaker
Yeah. And, and like has difficulty. He can't do the long periods of time of signing. Like he has to take breaks. So like, yeah, you can buy this. I mean, that's such brilliant Mark Jason angle. I got the, the, um, Sakashima of a thousand faces sketched.
00:59:28
Speaker
out of his book for like a hundred. I know people that waited two years to get there. I'm so jealous. I know. Like this was the stuff that I'm seeing the artist start to do. Um, do those specialized things like, like, you know, Justine Jones doing her, like she's done metal tokens, you know, Randy or RK post usually does something. Jeff Laubenstein always does something out for the event he's going to. Uh,
00:59:54
Speaker
the wild one I have to share with you all to just kind of show how this is a new world even for some of the artists. So Wizard of Barge did this chase that they're giving out to the like pro tour participants and then the top eight gets foil ones. So there's like 32 of them right total for the year. He got artist proofs of them and he brought only five of them because he decided to price them at five hundred and three thousand
01:00:24
Speaker
He sold them during the preview hour for the VIPs only. And when I came to talk to him, he said, I only brought five of each because I had never priced anything that high before. At 3,000 to pop? At 3,000 to pop on the foil. Yes, no. And they sold. Yeah, I mean, there's only 30, there's as many artists' troops as there are actual other cards. He could have gotten more for them.
01:00:52
Speaker
Well, they like I think they're getting into things like scaling and he was saying like I'm having he had a he had a friend coming later that day to that was going to be also that was coming I think for wherever he lives and was going to bring him more because he flat out didn't think he was going to sell them. Yeah. But I'm so glad to hear that right like he got paid. He's almost getting per artist proof what he probably got to do the commission.
01:01:18
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised if it's more from what I've heard about what the artists get paid for per piece 3000 is about the going rate for a mythic. Yeah, you may get a little more for a planeswalker. And this was one of those other things I ran into that was kind of wild. They're one of the they're the highest like in the industry to
01:01:39
Speaker
Oh, you're talking about like selling it after I was talking about the commission price itself. No, no, no, I've talked about the commission price. Oh, yeah. All right. You get like 3000 for a planeswalker or like, you know, like 1000 for a common uncommon. That's higher than that's like the highest in the industry. Yeah. But if they can make I mean, it's like, it's sad. But if he could turn around and sell, you know, 30 of those at 3000 each. That's, you know, it's fantastic for the artists. Now,
01:02:08
Speaker
I will say, uh, I did hear that overall Vegas was a little tougher than Minneapolis for the artists because there was, there was, there was like, it was, it was Vegas go big. Right. So I think it was like 40 artists. That's a lot of artists. And we're also starting to get, you know, you know, like
01:02:28
Speaker
Some people were, don't go to a lot of them, only go to a few events, but a lot of them are starting to be repeat people, which is great, right? That are the faces we know. But, you know, like I can think of a few that I went to their booths, but they didn't have anything new from Minneapolis. So, you know, I do wonder if that art thing, how that's going to go. I think it's finding ways to do it with things like exclusives. I really think the pre-sketching proofs is brilliant.
01:02:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As long as they know their proofs that are going to go and, or, or their artists that'll just sell anything they sketch, like John Avon. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, like you got to target it for the others, but I mean, you know, like, yeah, Jason Engel being able to sell like Sakashima does, they're going to sell there. Obviously. Yeah. You know, like, uh, yeah. So, um, yeah. So all in all, it was a while to me, just how,
01:03:26
Speaker
Even from Minneapolis, it did seem that they learned.
Future of Magic Cons: Diversity and Inclusivity
01:03:29
Speaker
I talked to a lot of people that felt just the way that they did the creator area and made that more front and center, I think you're saying, Taya, especially with the command zone being right there was huge.
01:03:43
Speaker
doing things like that to make it experiences are the things that I hope to see kind of the more of, uh, I really do want them to take a look at their other programming though, and think about, right? Like you're going to do these Gavin events. Just be mindful of what you're putting up against them. Um, you know, like you said, Alex, there's always got to be something, but they have the Saturday one a little bit later in the afternoon. So it doesn't conflict that Sunday.
01:04:10
Speaker
Sunday is always going to be in the afternoon. And that's when they're running these panels too. So. Yeah. And what did they have? Did they have panel programming all three days?
01:04:21
Speaker
I don't think they had anything on Friday. And that's the thing, too. Fewer people will show up Friday. Friday is a smaller day. But depending on what you have for programming, especially as you do more things, you're kind of looking to use more of that time. And Friday was busier than Sunday. Friday, yeah. I mean, Friday would have been up against Command Zone Live, which was probably even bigger than anything else. That's true.
01:04:50
Speaker
Earlier in the day, right? I mean, like, but I mean, like, I think that's where we're kind of like looking at what you want to be. Yeah. I think there's ways to work with Reid Pop to kind of think about this. Um, like the, the Sheldon panel was unavoidable. I will say that that made my Sunday. That's the other thing. Putting the mental health panel on Sunday is hard for me. I would love to do it a different day because
01:05:13
Speaker
I mean, my, you know, you all know me. I'm a pretty active extroverted person at these events. Like I had no voice. And then you throw shivam in there with me. Yeah.
01:05:24
Speaker
The two of us were like, yeah, I sounded like like 60 year old smokers. But I mean, it also was just a lot of emotional weight to have on one Sunday. So for me personally, and it was tough. I literally went from talking for an hour with other very raw, open, emotional people with with Ryan, Chase and Chivam.
01:05:49
Speaker
to like morning Sheldon to basically my con being over, right? Like I left for the airport. It was tough. Sunday I was an absolute wreck. But I think we're learning. I think we are seeing evolution. I think this is, for me personally, I can say, I remember us doing a show, Alex, where we talked years ago, and like I said, it may have been one of those first ones with Titus, what we would want
01:06:17
Speaker
And we're actually kind of getting there. Like we're getting to it. Yeah. And I think some of that is learning from other areas. And so some of that is ReadPop. Like as you mentioned, like ReadPop does these events. They have been doing them for years. That is their business.
01:06:34
Speaker
Yeah. And so, so tapping them, I think was a big sort of level up to that. It, it helped to build into some of that stuff faster because again, that's what they do. That's what they have been doing. Yeah. I think that, uh, you know, we're going to see them, you know, continue to evolve this idea, but we're going to, you know, we already know we're getting.
01:07:00
Speaker
One more, you know, in February, which sadly I won't be able to make, but, uh, you know, hopefully I'll be able to make whatever's after that because I miss Vegas too. Uh, and I'd like to be able to get out to another, uh, one of these cons, but, um, yeah, we're going to continue to see them evolve and see where they go in the future with this, you know, where they keep improving them each time.
01:07:25
Speaker
And that's my hope. I mean, this is what I would like for Magic. I think there's a place for competitive. I don't want to see competitive go away. I think it is that recognition though that competitive isn't really the bulk of who is going to be traveling for these events. Like they're going to be traveling anyway. This is to get more of the quote unquote gathering together.
01:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that there was a time when that is what drove attendance to these events, but honestly, that's not what's driving the audience to these events anymore. These fan conventions and things have existed in other spaces and other fandoms, and so many people
01:08:03
Speaker
are involved in more than one hobby. And I think folks like Kaya and I have been to a lot of anime conventions and other fan conventions. I know, Hobbs, you've been to some with San Diego Comic Con and things. And so there's lots of people who've seen these other events and are starting them now that more of that's coming into magic.
01:08:22
Speaker
why not go to a magic event that does that too? And so that's starting to, I'm glad they're going that direction. Like I said, that's the thing that we've been talking about for years, that we'd like to see more of that. And it lets them not just sort of tap into casual and give more content at these events for casual communities, but also for things like the Borthos community.
01:08:43
Speaker
Also, things like the mental health stuff that we're a part of. It allows them to start to provide more content for these smaller sub-communities within the larger community. Because again, you drive enough people into this space, you know you're going to have enough people in this small community that it's worth making some content to sort of serve as this specific sub-community.
01:09:09
Speaker
And it's great, I love that more parts of the community can celebrate this stuff. And then you have folks who aren't necessarily part of that, who maybe aren't part of Vorthos stuff, get to go see Vorthos and go, oh, this might be interesting, I wanna dive more into this. And it gives some more just exposure to some of the different parts of this wide community. Magic has so much stuff that you can kind of be a fan of and be part of.
01:09:49
Speaker
Compared to anything I went to in the previous magics to GPs, the diversity at these events, it's not even close, right? Like the amount of people from historically marginalized groups that were present at this Magic Con, it was everywhere, right? Like this was not just looking out into a room of white dudes.
01:10:03
Speaker
These events are a great way of celebrating it all.
01:10:11
Speaker
I'm not saying there weren't still a lot of them, but I have not been to, you know, like this is very different than if you had gone to magic events or if you had gone to a game store, an LGS up until five years ago. These magic cons are a lot more representative of who probably was always playing magic, but didn't feel comfortable going to something that was big and magic.
01:10:38
Speaker
And a lot of those communities are more represented in some of these other fandoms. And it's great that there's more of a space. There's starting to be more of a space for them in magic in some of these big events. So that's our kind of recap. I mean, let us know what you think. I mean, for those of you who have been to these magic cons, especially if you had been to events prior to the pandemic or back in the day, we would love to hear what your thoughts are on changes and where you think this goes from here.
01:11:07
Speaker
So thank you all for listening.
01:11:33
Speaker
If you would like to support your friendly neighborhood Gob's Hugs, our link tree can be found on our Twitter account and in the description of today's show. This has everything from various discount codes to the link from our Patreon. The music for today's show was by Wintergotten, who can be found at vintergotten at bandcamp.com. The art was done by Steven Raphael, who can be found at Steve Ruffle on Twitter. Gob and Lore is proud to be presented by Hipsters of the Coast as part of their growing forthos content.
01:12:01
Speaker
Check them out on Twitter at hipsters MTG or online at hipstersofthecoast.com. Thank you for listening and remember goblins like snowflakes are only dangerous in numbers.