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Over the Garden Wall
729 Plays1 year ago
Just in time for Halloween, Andrew and J Scotty have a comprehensive and extended discussion diving deep into Cartoon Network's celebrated cult classic miniseries, 2014's Over the Garden Wall.
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Transcript
Introduction and Halloween Episode Tease
00:00:01
Speaker
On this entry of the Animation Deliberation podcast, we are entering into the unknown. More about what that is after these ads, we have no control over. Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah.
Introducing 'Over the Garden Wall' and Its Halloween Tradition
00:00:26
Speaker
Yeah, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Or for the first time, if you've happened to find us with this very special spooky little Halloween episode that we have decided to put together for you here on Animation Deliberation, I am one of your hosts, Andrew Rogers, and joining me today. My name's J. Sun Funderburger. Just kidding. Just kidding, obviously. J. Scotty St. Clair here. I apologize.
00:00:54
Speaker
Oh, that caught me so off guard with that one. But yes, welcome, ladies and gentlemen, like I said, it's going to be a little bit of a Halloween special. And we are going to be covering over the garden wall today. Um, I think we're gonna start up here at the top. I do kind of want to give a spoiler free like what is over the garden the wall? What are you listening to? Have you never heard of this thing? Because I feel like there's you either know about this show or you don't, I feel like is kind of the case.
00:01:24
Speaker
Sure, sure. I think that's warranted. I think for my purposes though, I expect this section to be pretty brief because I feel like anybody that's clicking on a podcast that says over the garden wall, this thing came out almost nine years to the date of the time of this recording.
Analyzing 'Over the Garden Wall' - Tone and Design
00:01:39
Speaker
I think it debuted November 3rd, 2014. So definitely
00:01:45
Speaker
perfect timing in terms of spooky season coming to a culmination here. Let's do a little spoiler free section here. Take it away. What are your thoughts on Over the Garden Wall? Over the Garden Wall is
00:02:00
Speaker
what has basically become a Halloween tradition for me like just sit down watch in a full binge or two section because it's like two hours all in all it is just the shortest most cozy yet still very spooky at times little set of short episodes that make you question so many things and you go through it with such a delight and if you are out there and you haven't watched it definitely go watch it because we're going to spoil all of the things that the show has to offer but like
00:02:29
Speaker
I want to say it's just a wild ride and I envy the fact that you get to do it again for the first time because like I wish I could go back not knowing how the show fully comes together and just get to sit and enjoy all of the little cozy notes because this is just pure old school animated cartoon at its finest yet it was done only 10 years ago as opposed to 30 years ago like so many things that I would probably compare it to.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yeah, you talk about it being a Halloween tradition and I really appreciate that perspective because for me, this was actually the first time I revisited it since the first time I watched it, which was 2018. My brother actually introduced me to it and I do feel like it's one of those shows like thinking about spooky season like trick or treat like this is one of those shows like this is actually like
00:03:19
Speaker
such a treat to be able to like share with people and I like I'm internally grateful to my brother for introducing me to this and like you talk about that first time viewer like the the
00:03:29
Speaker
just absolute delight that they're in for. And you know, it's not without, you know, it's highs and lows. And I don't mean that in terms of quality. I mean, this is like a story that is, you know, simultaneously cute and quaint and fairy tale and fantasy-like, but it's also got the darker side of that. It's very macabre and increasingly so and deals with a lot of melancholy. And there's definitely a tension and like palpable dread to the proceedings. And it is, you know, all that being said, the show is absolutely
00:03:59
Speaker
beautifully done. It's got these amazing painted backgrounds that are super detailed and have such a wonderful tone. And then you've got these characters in the foreground that are by and large, they're kind of painted with flats and they're very simple shapes, very simple geometry, but the character designs are so endearing in the way that those simple shapes are employed.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, I was very much brought back to like Scooby-Doo and the old like Hanna-Barbera because it is just pure painted background. Like there's some of the shots where they cut away and you're like, oh, they're actually gonna spruce up those trees or the owls that they're showing. No, that's still a painting that they just cut to, to kind of give you that like, ooh, there's an owl hooting over there as opposed to like giving you the flat. And it's so,
00:04:49
Speaker
I think that's why it feels cozy to me is because it has that almost retro feel. And at the end of the day, if we haven't sold you on great characters, great drawings, there is great music. Like that is one thing that we're probably going to have to talk about at some point throughout this entire show. And I joked already about like, which song would we try and put to the intro, which we will totally talk about later.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yes, just let's just go and watch because you have the an amazing voice cast of Elijah Wood, Christopher Lloyd, Melanie Zielinski, or Lindsay, I should say, and John Cleese, there's just so many great names attached to like, oh, yeah, one of the shortest, cutest things Cartoon Network has put out that is also
00:05:30
Speaker
Again, Halloween-y. Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned the music, and definitely this soundtrack is one of the best things about the show, and it really contributes to the atmosphere that this show has. And when you were talking about the throwback to old school animation and the cozy feeling, I feel like that's what the show does so well, is create this sense of atmosphere. Whether it's that cozy feeling that you're getting in some moments, whether it's the absolute sorrow that you experience in others, or whether it's the fear, and the show does all of that so well, and it's
00:05:58
Speaker
I feel like I say this a lot when I'm talking about stuff, but it fires on all cylinders in terms of the visuals, the audio, the music, the voice acting. And I do think while we're still in the spoiler free section, it's just kind of worth mentioning just to give people some context about this.
00:06:13
Speaker
This was kind of a, in 2014 when this came out, this was kind of an unusual thing for Cartoon Network. This was a 10 episode limited miniseries that debuted between November 3rd and November 7th, I believe. So I think they did like two episodes a night during that run, but it was brought to us by Patrick McHale.
00:06:34
Speaker
who I was not super familiar with, but apparently he kind of cut his teeth on shows like The Adventures of Flapjack, Adventure Time. So I'm definitely familiar with Adventure Time, but The Adventures of Flapjack, which I think this show kind of borrows from in terms of the animation style. A little bit, yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, cuz I haven't seen a lot of the adventures of flapjack it kind of came out in this time where I think I was like, you know in in the Navy and Not really, you know watching a lot of Cartoon Network but I remember seeing it here and there and I remember going over to friends house that had like young kids and I think I remember it like coming out around the same time as as chowder, but I'm going off on a You are correct in everything you're saying, okay
00:07:19
Speaker
apparently he has helped out on most recently Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio that's right yes in place so definitely not a
00:07:31
Speaker
named to be, you know, just assuming they haven't done much because they have definitely been doing a lot. But yeah, you really put that in perspective for me how rare something like this was. Like, nowadays, it's such a common thing. Like Disney Plus just released, I think it was like a Lego Marvel special and it's a
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, and they do all these things where it's just like, oh, we're gonna throw out, here's an hour of content, or here's like 10 10 minute episodes of a thing. I mean, look at Star Wars visions is a great example. Um, they just drop it on us. And they're like, here you go. Here's this beautiful thing that we kind of take for granted now, whereas back then to get an entire story in one week's time.
00:08:13
Speaker
was kind of crazy. And that's why I say like, I love this as a binge, because sitting down and getting to go through these highs and lows of each of these episodes, back to back to back is so much fun to me. Like, that's the way that I would definitely recommend either one or two sittings. Because I feel like there's a kind of a good break in episode five, if I remember how that episode ends, or it's like, okay, you could pick it up.
00:08:37
Speaker
That actually works perfectly because upon my rewatch, that's exactly how I broke it up. I did it in two nights and I watched the first five and then the second five and it works out pretty nicely, but it is worth mentioning that the total runtime, like these are 10, 11 minutes short, so you could knock the whole thing out in less than two hours. It's like an hour and 50 minutes if I'm doing my math right there.
00:08:57
Speaker
I think so. I can attest that's exactly what it is because that's how we did it this year. Me and my friends got together. We baked some pumpkin pie and different cookies and stuff and then sat down and just watched this together. So also it's very fun for a community of people. We laughed. We like just had so much fun with it. Um, so yeah, I feel like now we need to talk about it in full because there's so much fun to talk about. So if you haven't watched, you could stop here.
00:09:26
Speaker
and go watch it. And now into the spoiler section, Jay Scottie, what is your favorite song? And why is it potatoes and molasses? You're absolutely correct. It is my potatoes and molasses is my favorite song. And it's just, you know, I think when I think about the character of Greg,
00:09:42
Speaker
It just embodies who he is. They're in the schoolhouse, everybody's down the dumps because the potatoes are pretty bland and he just tells the teacher, try a tune like this and he just, oops. I just hit my mic as I was imitating Greg swatting away at the piano and then just out comes the song. I think one of my takeaways from this rewatch is Greg,
00:10:12
Speaker
is not very...
00:10:16
Speaker
He's got a knack for music, but he's not classically trained in any way. And I really think it's him trying to have something in common with word in retrospect, because music is something that word is good at. But anyway, all that being said, the song is very kind of off-kilter. I think about the lyrics and how he's saying it. It kind of throws you off, but it still works in his cute, like, half-hazard way, like, potatoes and molasses. If you want some, all you have to do is ask us.
00:10:45
Speaker
Everything's a little off through the song. Did you add one extra word? It kind of works, but I feel like there's too many beats in there. It's not happening in 4-4 time. I can tell you that much. Good call. Good call. That's my answer, but I'm curious for you what your favorite song in this stellar soundtrack is.
00:11:04
Speaker
I mean, the earworm that is definitely in my head is like just that cold open song where you see a shot sitting at a piano and the deep sultry voice of that person. I
00:11:19
Speaker
Jack Jones. Jack Jones is featured on that song. Yes. Thank you. Like just so good. It like makes me want to get in that fall mood. Like I heard it. That's what actually triggered this entire thing is I heard someone do an Instagram reel where that song was over the back of them carving a pumpkin. And I was just like, that's it. I got to watch over the garden wall again this year. As soon as I watched it, I was like, we have to record something on this. That song is the one. But the one that I really want to call out because I re listened to the soundtrack today.
00:11:49
Speaker
just to like get in the mood, get ready. It's the song.
00:11:55
Speaker
that they sing in Pops Field, it's patient is the night. And it's the song where they're just working away, having a great time, like not realizing that they're possibly working toward their death, even though it's not actually their death. Like that song with the pumpkins just watching them is such just a it is that weird old school cartoon thing where I have a working montage, let's put the most beautiful song song over it. And it just
00:12:22
Speaker
It really hit me. I was like, wow, I was not paying attention, but this song is great. But there's so many fun ones because there's also the entire riverboat with the frog and the band and playing the bassoon. Yeah, that's definitely a highlight for sure. You came out of left pot field, if you will.
00:12:46
Speaker
Very nice. With your choice there, but I like that. But when you mentioned the opening intro that features Jack Jones there voicing Greg's frog who goes by many, many names, but I think they finally landed on Jason Funderberger, the only distinction being that he spells his name with a U rather than an E.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yes, but another thing about the show is like a number of the voice actors like when I when I look them up They're actually like the show employed a lot of musicians who like are not they don't do voice acting outside of that Like this is like they're they just you know decided to come do this show so I think that's that's pretty cool that the
00:13:24
Speaker
show was so unified in its vision from beginning to end in every part. There's some really unique voices. You mentioned Christopher Lloyd. That was one that actually surprised me. His voice was instantly recognizable to me, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I was like, I know this voice. This voice is my childhood. What is this voice?
00:13:46
Speaker
It wasn't until I just sat back and imagine instead of him grabbing Wurt and being like, you got to get out of here, boy. It was just like, Marty, Marty, you got to go. You got to go back to the future, Marty. Just imagining him shaking Marty McFly instead of Wurt was the moment that I was like, oh, there it is. I got it now. I could place this perfectly. I think it was like the first episode ended and I saw that name popping the credits.
00:14:13
Speaker
No, he couldn't be like it was it's so good. And yeah, I think we could kind of briefly touch on each episode. I don't want to go through all of them, but I kind of want to go through all of them. Yeah. Real quickly, you asked me my favorite song, so I wanted to respond in kind and ask you a question.
00:14:31
Speaker
So we talk about the tone here and we talk about the music, but then I think another one of the hallmarks of the show is some of the incredibly creepy imagery. We get some chilling characters and I want to ask you,
00:14:47
Speaker
which character do you find the most unsettling? Because I feel like for most people, there's kind of an obvious answer. Maybe it's between one or two, but I think I have kind of an unusual answer, but I'll let you kick things off. And I'll give you a second to think about it if you need, but what's the character that just raises your hairs and sends a children's line? Okay. I have my answer and I feel like it's most people's answer. Lorna, hands down, is the one for me, because like,
00:15:17
Speaker
I went on a journey with this show the first time that I watched it, where like, I didn't know how creepy it was gonna be. I didn't know quite what to expect. Because that first episode, you kind of get like, maybe there's some jokes here. And they're working, but the beast it's out there. And then like, even though they get the dog at the end, it's like, but the beast you still got to watch the beast boy. So I hadn't quite like, figured out it was silly until like potatoes and molasses. I'm like, okay, this is a cozy show. So then you get comfortable
00:15:45
Speaker
And I'm looking it's the seventh episode is when Lorna and the bell shows up. The power of the bell. And it's just that entire like flip of the script where the person I think is bad is not bad. And then to have a legitimately like horrifying ghost character in when Lorna popped up on the screen, I was actually like, Oh, my God. So I feel like to her, to me, Lorna is like the one that just took me so wildly by surprise. And I was scared of.
00:16:15
Speaker
Okay, and I'm keeping in mind that you're not the biggest like horror guy and like I'll be it like this show is creepy but it's not overtly like terrifying in any way but like it is unsettling but you actually kind of surprised me when you said Lorna because I think that's a great answer and I do think the character twist there is a big part of like
00:16:34
Speaker
what drives the emotion that you feel about that character when she makes that turn. Yeah. But I do have a couple of quick honorable mentions that I won't spend too, too much time on. I will say the Beast, when we get the final revelation there, I think that is kind of surprisingly effective. But we'll talk about that when we get there. But the other one that's my honorable mention comes from the same episode that you mentioned. And it is Auntie Whispers, voiced by Tim Curry, which, no. Yes, it's Tim Curry.
00:17:06
Speaker
the king of horror in penny wise and rocky horror picture show himself yes yes yes yes.
00:17:18
Speaker
But talking about the character design and just how they're flats, just real quickly to talk about Auntie Whispers, the way they did her eyes, not only did they give it shadows, but they also gave it highlights that just gave it this sickly glow.
00:17:37
Speaker
The character that unsettles me more than anyone else, and being a fan of horror, I love how much it unsettles me, the highwayman. When the highwayman does his diddy, it
00:17:51
Speaker
I love the animation style. It's almost like it's rotoscoped as he skews out of proportion. And the way he just interrupts work when he does it, and the way he's just all the tavern folk are just like, okay, this guy's talking about slitting people's throats, and we're cool with it. I have no doubt, if I had seen this thing when I was a kid, seven years old or younger, it would have been nightmare fuel for me. The Highwayman would have been one of the most unsettling things in my life.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, the Highwayman just flies so under the radar in that whole thing. And you're just there listening. Like, is anyone else hearing this? Like, it's a catchy song. But, but he's gonna rob me like, he's gonna make ends meet no matter what. That's right. That's right. Like, yeah, there's that. And I mean, we didn't touch on it. We already talked about Potsfield. But those pumpkins, those pumpkins are just like, I can't remember what the name of the big one is.
00:18:47
Speaker
knock like the thunder and for lack of a better word molasses that is his voice word choice yeah that's a perfect way to describe it yeah and i think it's because i was like older when i have watched this for the first time but if i was like 10 years old
00:19:06
Speaker
I don't know if I'm making it past episode two, but like if I was a younger kid, like that pumpkin is that some nightmare fuel, just the undying eyes giant pumpkin mast thing like that. And that's where I'm talking about like, I didn't know where the vibe of the show was going to be until potatoes and molasses because even that episode you're like,
00:19:26
Speaker
It ends on a happy note, but they're kind of creepy. Like you think they're going to die? Like at no point did I think that were and Greg were not digging their own graves. Right. It wasn't right up until they actually tell you, oh, there's skeletons in here. Like I thought they were going to have to escape with their lives as opposed to just being like, oh, you don't want to stay with us. OK, cool. Bye. Like.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm right there with you. It was, they sold it really well, just the sense of atmosphere, even when they first see them and they're like,
00:20:01
Speaker
you thought pumpkins were alive? Like obviously pumpkins aren't alive. It's a costume. It's, but that's still so off. Yeah. Such a great like turn because you're like, Oh, it's gotta be people in there. Like at no point does your brain be like, maybe it could be a goblin or a skeleton or anything else. You're just like, okay, it has to be a person then because pumpkins are alive. Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of talking about how
00:20:26
Speaker
this was kind of the point of the show where you were still questioning what the tone was going to be, but then when it kind of bounced back with potatoes and molasses in the next episode, I do feel like this is where, you know, the first episode had its dark moments, especially, you know, we'll talk about its entirety, but towards the end there. But I feel like this episode with the presentation of death, like even before we saw the skeletons, I think it was made pretty clear to me that like,
00:20:52
Speaker
these pumpkin people were like, you know, kind of in the state of limbo or had passed on or they'll join us at some point in time or something like that. So that's when, you know, I really got the sense that like, you know, these boys are obviously lost in the woods and that's like a source of like anxiety in the show. But the other worldliness that starts to set in like really starts to drive kind of home that they are in fact, you know, in a state of limbo themselves.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yes, and we'll get there because that's a whole other conversation. Obviously, it all comes together in episodes nine and 10. Right. But without me being a total expert in this, I do know there have been a lot of people that have talked about it. So if you want to, I think there's like a Tumblr thread or something like that. This show very heavily parallels Dante's Inferno.
00:21:41
Speaker
Oh, basically, these seven episodes are like the seven levels of hell. Interesting. Dante's Inferno opens with him entering hell meeting, you know, these people masquerading as the devil, aka the woodsman, and what would eventually be the beast and throughout the book. Um,
00:21:59
Speaker
He has a I believe it's a bard with him, which is Greg, the comedy relief happening throughout this. And then like you said, they go through limbo and then they go through all of these different states of people at different points in their lives and going through different turmoil. It apparently is a very heavy parallel. And I think that's awesome. I wanted to touch on it, but I am not I have not read it enough to know. But it's definitely like I love that it's not hit over the head to you that like, oh, this has to be
00:22:28
Speaker
limbo or this has to be death or this has to be anything. It's just like unknown. Yeah, it is literally the unknown these kids around and adventure you enjoy it.
00:22:37
Speaker
even before it goes to the whole, it was all a dream thing. You're just still like, what is this mystery? Because there's still one thing that has always bugged me about this show. And I've never looked at the end of that second episode, there is a leaf flying through the air. And that leaf gets stuck on a fence. And you see it blowing against the fence and it stops and it stops. Okay. And
00:22:58
Speaker
For the longest time, I was like watching the episodes of the show and I was like, oh, so they're trapped in like a bubble in an alternate world and like it can't push past like the mesh of the outside kind of thing. Like that's what's happening is it was some magical barrier. And that I think means nothing by the end of it. But like to me, that was such a perfect seed of I was so far off track.
00:23:24
Speaker
that by the time it all came full circle, it worked. I don't know if anyone else ever had that experience. They never plant the seeds of anything that actually is the answer. And I think that's really cool.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think it's wildly open to interpretation, but I love that you honed in on something that could seem seemingly insignificant. But your allusions to Dante's Inferno, I will admit, I only have a cursory knowledge of Dante's Inferno myself, but I do know that this show makes a lot of allusions to just
00:23:56
Speaker
various folklore and mythological interpretations of death. Later on, we're going to talk about them taking a ferry and the fact that it costs them two pennies is exactly what it costs for in Greek mythology in order to get to the afterlife or underworld. They're on the river sticks. The river sticks, exactly. Exactly. There are more. You mentioned Enoch in the Pottsfield episode, the fact that
00:24:23
Speaker
uh later on it's revealed that there was a cat inside there and it's like why a cat well in you know cats are also known as like you know uh beings that kind of act as conduits or like uh leaders to the to the next life or what have you so and there are more those are just the ones i think of at the top of my head this show's so cool is really all that it is because it encapsulates all of these halloweeny feelings and all of these tropes and all of these stories that we know
00:24:50
Speaker
like, because even though I didn't think of putting the cat thing together, it's just like, Oh, yeah, that that works for this little like mythological storytelling, basically storybook vibe that this entire thing is. Yeah, yeah. A lot of fairy tale influence and like Grimm's Grimm's tales. Is that what they call those Grimm's stories? Tales of Grimm.
00:25:13
Speaker
I know it's the Grimm, it's the Brothers Grimm that wrote them. Brothers Grimm, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's something. They're fairy tales, whatever, yeah. Yes. Yeah, the show. Go to source pages for that. Source pages called, I mean, there is actually, I believe, a book series or graphic novel series that this whole thing is based on, that Kale also wrote. So source pages,
00:25:39
Speaker
next year, we'll just do that too. We'll wrap it up in a double whammy. Okay, sounds good. But yeah, let's, you want to start diving into the episodes chronologically here? Yeah, we'll go down the list. So episode one, we started touching on is just titled
00:25:59
Speaker
Uh oh, I lost my episode list. The Old Grist Mill. The Old Grist Mill. I was like, it's something mill, but I don't know what the mill is called. The Old Grist Mill. And it really is such a perfect opener for this show. Sure. Because it teases the mystery, it makes you ask questions, because
00:26:17
Speaker
nothing is handed to you. Okay, you're just like, sitting there like, all right, this kid's got a teapot on his head. He's got candy in his pants. His brother is some sort of gnome. All right, that's all the information I have to work on. Moving forward. There's a frog like that. It's just like, you just have to take it all at basically face value at that point. Yeah, yeah. And it, it works to make you ask the questions, I guess.
00:26:45
Speaker
But yeah, yeah, it really kind of plants you right in the like, you know,
00:26:51
Speaker
we're on this adventure right alongside Wirt and Greg and the fact that they just kind of like meander into this journey that we're on and we just kind of do the same thing in the show. The first episode does such a great job of establishing our core players. Beatrice doesn't feature super heavily, but they have an interaction with her and there's a talking bluebird and the Huntsman starts to give it
00:27:16
Speaker
tell us about the beast. And we have a foe that we think is the beast, but it's not really the beast. But I do want to hone in on the character of Wurt. And I like that, you know, you call him a gnome. And like the fact that everyone kind of sticks in front of gnome. Like my first instinct is wizard. Like he's got the pointy hat in the cape. It's like old school wizard. Okay. But, you know, I
00:27:37
Speaker
looking up the production history of the show and how Patrick McHale, I think he was trying to get the show made since around 2004, 2006, pitched a pilot, they passed on it at the time, brought him back later and he actually got to do a short film. Let me get that up here. That one was called The Tome of the Unknown Harvest Melody and that came out in 2013.
00:27:59
Speaker
And that was like a nine minute short that he did. But in that, like when he was first creating these characters and everything like that, Wurt was not named Wurt, Wurt was Walter. So like, I always think like out of all the names that we get and whatnot, there are some unusual ones for sure, but like Wurt was always just kind of weird, but it fits him so well. And I was like thinking about like, where did Wurt come from? And I'm just like, what I landed on, and this may or may not be right, but it's right for me is the fact that he's like such a worry Wurt.
00:28:27
Speaker
So you're combining worry. He's just worried. Like that's who he is. No. Yeah. To me, it works really well. Because I just assume like, oh, it's a fantasy name and stop asking questions. Don't sure that they're from the real world. Because like, sure. It's mentioned, oh, we we entered the woods, we got lost, we were on our way home. Yeah, you just think to yourself, oh, they must live in a fantasy town or the gnome village or the wizard
00:28:55
Speaker
tower, you know, whatever your headcanon was, you immediately put those pieces together and stopped asking questions and they do such a good job of sucking you in that you don't forget. But I also, we talk about, you know, setting up the key players, also setting up the rules of like, okay, they're in an unknown world, but also setting the expectations of how great this show is animation style and continuity.
00:29:20
Speaker
those like really hit home for me, I remember in this first episode, where like, you watch him put the piece of candy on the little black turtle, and that turtle comes back to get the beast, right? He breaks a wood stick and throws it under the couch. And nine episodes later, the Huntsman is or woodsman is looking for some wood to put in the lantern, and he finds it under the couch. And there's just so many of those little notes that like,
00:29:48
Speaker
they set the bar so high and then followed through that I was very, very impressed that I feel like also needs to be talked about. But like you said, setting work up as a worry war is so funny to me, because even the picture for this episode is him sitting on the psychologist couch for lack of a better term, while his brother is looking for weapons. Like that is the picture that they have on IMDB for this episode. And I feel like it sums up these two characters so well.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah. So I have the answer to that, the psychologist couch, which is aptly named because I know exactly what you're talking about, but I know what that is actually called because we had one when I was growing up and it is a che. Hmm. So those of you. Feels French. Need for random trivia. Yeah, it is French. Yes. Is a che. Isn't che also house in French though? Probably still. That I don't know. I'm not that refined.
00:30:44
Speaker
Our high-culture talk has ended. Thank you for coming. Yeah, once you start to poke holes in it all, the veneer just vanishes. No, I won't ask too many more questions then. Besides, when you watched this first episode, did you think that the beast was real? Were you expecting it to take such a wild turn in all of this?
00:31:12
Speaker
That's a good question. I guess trying to put myself back in the place I was the first time I watched it, I think my inclination was that even though the woodsman said that the dog hadn't been the beast, I guess I thought
00:31:33
Speaker
I didn't know that I still didn't think that the beast was going to be like the, the big bad of the season, if that makes sense. I thought, you know, given the fact that I knew it was a mini series, I thought it might be a little more anthology like in nature with just separate adventures.
00:31:49
Speaker
So yeah, I was certainly in for a pleasant surprise to know, to your point, there is such intention and such continuity and there's so many visual cues about where the story is going. I actually think about even the opening montage, seemingly random imagery is basically setting up so many of the characters and interactions that we're going to see down the road.
00:32:10
Speaker
There's a lot of good like visual cues and I could be mistaken. I'm trying to think about when it happens in this first episode, but I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there is like visual imagery to at least one or two objects or figures like sinking.
00:32:31
Speaker
So already kind of setting up the end game from the very first episode. Yeah, there's the syncing. And then the other thing that I thought you were going to say is you see the trees with faces in this first episode. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just take it as spooky woods with trees that look like faces. I've seen that myself. But knowing how it's all going to sling together
00:32:57
Speaker
I don't know. You put it well. Didn't think the beast was going to be the big bad. Did not think the beast was going to be death. That's wild that we did that. Yeah. I guess one other thing I want to say quickly before we move on though.
00:33:16
Speaker
is while the show does have a lot of visual motifs and whatnot, this episode really did. I think about the climax there with the fight with the infested dog or corrupted dog. And it really showcases
00:33:37
Speaker
the relationship and the interactions between Greg and Wirt, because it starts with Greg trying to do something that Wirt initially encouraged him, and he wants to live up to that, and it just goes disastrously, but it all ends up working out in the end. That's the accidents.
00:33:59
Speaker
You get very, very well introduced to these characters without realizing it. Like it wasn't until you pointed out, oh, yeah, it's just him wanting to live up to his brother's expectation and do what his brother says and go along with it. That's the same thing that we're going to see pretty much through every episode. Sure. Here on out that it's that's the relationship between Greg and work in some capacity or another. Sure. Sure. All right. Well, that'll uh,
00:34:26
Speaker
take care of the first episode there. So episode two, which we've already kind of talked about. I feel like we've talked a lot about because if you can't tell this up there on my list, it just is something for me. Yeah, no, it's definitely a super memorable episode. For posterity's sake, it is titled Hard Times at the Huskenby. Yeah, and I guess this is where we really start to get a sense that
00:34:54
Speaker
These boys aren't seeing home anytime soon. We got a journey ahead of us. Yes, and it really puts Beatrice in center stage. This is where we fully are like, okay, this is a character that's going to be a part of things going forward. True. We have a talking bird and very, very
00:35:17
Speaker
much immediately you get some weird vibes out of Beatrice. Like you don't know what to make of them. You're just like, ah, she's just trying to figure out how to deal with these silly kids. But again, knowing how this all comes together that Beatrice like has her own ulterior motives is
00:35:34
Speaker
so interesting when you watch it that second or third time. And I will say, if it hasn't been apparently obvious when I said it was a Halloween tradition, it's worth the rewatch because I feel like you earn a lot of like, oh, I didn't catch that, or that's entirely framed in a different light the second or third time that you do sit down and enjoy this.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, and I do think the show is very, very appropriate for Halloween. I think some episodes more so than others, but this is definitely one with all the pumpkin imagery and the skeletons and just the themes of death. This one, yeah, it really hits on that.
00:36:14
Speaker
sentiment, I guess, for lack of a better term. It's got the Halloween vibes is what I'm trying to say. I feel like I now need to try and like go to a convention cosplaying is one of these pumpkins and just see who is like, wait a minute. I know this because they're so fun looking like they're just round and jovial and yet terrifying because of like the emptiness in their mouths and the eyes like watching that one pumpkin carve another pumpkin was oh yeah, I don't know.
00:36:40
Speaker
Are they killing each other? What's happening? Oh, good call. Yeah. That was such a good moment. But I was thinking in terms of the cosplay, if you could get a couple of people to agree to do it with you, if you get a big totem almost and have Enoch on there on the top, and then you could have the ribbons coming off and everybody running around them in circles, that'd be pretty sweet.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yes, the it's very May Day vibes which just even before Midsummer were always creepy and now with Midsummer being in in the horror vernacular I don't know if I can look at like May Day polls the same ever again.
00:37:18
Speaker
Like just immediately freaked out as soon as I saw it. I was like, no, I don't like this. This is a cult. At the, at the mention of Midsummer, like I have to have a little bit of a tangent here because I love Midsummer. Ari Aster is one of my favorite working directors. And, uh, I.
00:37:36
Speaker
I say famously, but I saw it somewhere when it first came out and loved it. I had already had my eye on Florence Pugh and she was a performer that I wanted to catch everything she did, but also Ari Aster's involvement, obviously. But I'd never seen the Director's Cut. The Director's Cut was initially only available on Apple and I didn't have it at the time, but all that being said, they put the Director's Cut, the two hour and 50 minute version out.
00:38:01
Speaker
AMC part of their thrills and chills thing that they're doing for our for the month of October and I got to see it and I've seen this movie this was probably like my fourth or fifth time watching it and This I just love that movie. So Thor thoroughly like so good Well, I'm glad for you because thank you had scarred me and I've gone on record saying I don't like horror and I don't know why I thought I would try and watch that movie but Wow
00:38:31
Speaker
That was one of the craziest movies I've ever seen. Yeah, it's got some brutal sequences, but I don't think it's overtly scary again. It's just super unsettling. Unsettling is the best word to use. I just felt like I couldn't do anything for the next day. I was just like, I don't know how to feel about anything. Drama.
00:38:50
Speaker
drama indeed but yeah we touched a lot on the second episode I don't know if I have much else to say besides it's just it's so fun I want that voice actor that does Enoch to just do all of like give me the deep voice commercials at this point it's yeah Chris Isaac Isaac
00:39:10
Speaker
ISAAK did them. And I don't personally know them from too many other things. Yeah, this is another instance where they pulled like a musician. So it looks like he's kind of a rockabilly revivalist is what he's known for.
00:39:24
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. He's compared to Elvis Presley, Roy Orbison, Ricky Nelson, and Dwayne Eddie. So I recognize Roy Orbison and Elvis Presley, but the rest are lost on me. Well, either way, that sultry voice definitely comes in handy for things like that. It does. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I guess the only other thing I want to say about episode two before we move on is I think this might be the first time we get the name drop of Adelaide.
00:39:51
Speaker
Oh, for sure. Yeah. Because this was like, Oh, I can take you to Adelaide, the good witch of the East or right. Good. Which of the planes I think is what it is actually very, very reminiscent of the forest or something of the pasture. Adelaide of the pasture, the woods. Okay. We were almost there. We were very close. We were just next to it. We were just dancing all around it, but that's, that's okay.
00:40:17
Speaker
All right, dancing around it. That's right. Just like Enoch. So now to what is almost the most memorable episode for sure. Sure. Like, I feel like you ask a lot of people like, Oh, what's the thing you think about? It's gonna be potatoes and molasses. And it's gonna be the episode of school town follies.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah, because it's it's wild. It's just absolutely like even sitting down watching it knowing what was going to happen. I kept being like, I forgot that there's a gorilla and that it's a school full of animals. Like I saw the schoolhouse and I was like, oh, yeah, there's that school teacher. Oh, but the students were animals. That's right. And the animals don't talk. They're not magical like Beatrice. They're just like so many things. You're just like, oh, I think I figured it out. And then something else bizarre happens.
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think another thing that's really great about this episode is that it starts the relationship that we get to see between Beatrice and words. And I think this is one of the first instances, I don't know, that came out weird, but where work gets to showcase a little bit more of his personality. So far, he's just been really nervous and worrisome and trying to get them home and
00:41:35
Speaker
and whatnot, but now with Beatrice kind of telling him, like, you're a pushover, like, you only do what people get to tell you. He's like, oh, I'm a pushover, am I? And you get to see a little bit of a snapback and what work looks like with a little bit of attitude. And we'll talk about it at length as we go on through these episodes.
00:41:56
Speaker
you know, Wert has, you know, some pretty complicated relationships even with Greg and even with Beatrice, but the evolution of both of those, I think is kind of the heart of the show. Like Beatrice, I think it's a little bit more character development than Greg, but that's part of the joy of Greg. Greg is just like this constant, reliable, never wavers, just the ultimate good boy.
00:42:21
Speaker
The ultimate good boy is such a usually we say that in reference to like dogs. I was so caught off guard with that. But yeah, I think it's obviously that way largely because I mean, at this point, we've kind of given up the goat a little bit. And hopefully you've seen the whole show. We know that this is a dream sequence on the brink of death. And my head cannon is that this is specifically wertz dream.
00:42:50
Speaker
Okay, so the I feel like the reason that Greg is just this lovable child is like that's just the way that his brother is always going to see him. He's not going to grow in these moments. He's not going to change because like, he's just getting that perfect
00:43:07
Speaker
this is a child from his older brother. Like that's all he's ever going to see him as is just that child. Whereas we're like you said, he has this great growth in this episode, he comes up with these solutions. And he's like, you know what, if I'm not gonna be a pushover, let's go, let's do this. Let me figure out how to, you know, solve all of that. I feel like you have something to say on my notes of like, brink of death dream. You can just see it in my face. You can just see it in my face. Yeah. I want to put a pin in that and just say yes, it
00:43:36
Speaker
brings up a very interesting conversation that I want to have, but I don't want to do it just yet. So yes, if we don't start talking about it by episode eight babes in the woods, remind me, I'm going to do my best to remember it. I think we'll come to that point regardless naturally at some point, but yeah.
00:43:55
Speaker
I have thoughts on that. Okay. Okay. I think there's definitely the deeper thing. So we'll continue down the episodes as much as we want to talk about the fun, because I feel like the big conversations start happening toward the end of these episodes. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Um, yeah, we'll move on to episode four, songs of the dark lantern, which, uh, featured the debut of the aforementioned highway man. And also introduces the highway man.
00:44:25
Speaker
But we also get introduced to Fred, Fred the horse.
00:44:32
Speaker
Which was such a crazy one-off joke for like, literally the tag of the end of the episode. Like, how do you know where we're going? Oh, we asked Greg. Hi. Or is it Greg or Fred? Fred. Fred is the horse. Greg is the brother. Oh, we asked Fred. Oh, hi. You could talk? Yeah. Like, just didn't want to talk to Beatrice. And the first line he has is, it's horse to meet you. It's just like, what a terrible, like, play on words, but just works for Fred so well.
00:45:02
Speaker
And this is one of those moments, the voice actor that they had literally just come in to play a horse. It's Fred Stoller. He brings like
00:45:15
Speaker
It's such a silly voice for a horse. I don't know how else to describe it. It works, but it's like you look at this doofy animated horse and then you hear his voice and you're like, oh yeah, that's exactly what I imagine this horse would sound like. Right, right. But this episode. I was wondering where I recognized his voice from and I thought he kind of sounded like
00:45:40
Speaker
I don't know who I thought he sounded like, I'm not recalling that, but apparently Fred Stoller is known for a bit role on Everybody Loves Raymond, which is probably where I heard him. Yes. Yeah, okay.
00:45:54
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like that is like I can see him acting and doing that bit role as well. So it's. I'm so glad I looked him up because that's OK. He wasn't dumb and dumber. He had the smallest role in dumb and dumber, but he was the guy in the phone booth that gets assaulted and dumb and dumber. That's I think that's where I instantly recognize him. But yeah.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yup. Okay. Well, I guess while we're on episode four, I will say again, talking about the music, like I did call up potatoes and molasses as my favorite, but I thought this one had some pretty good ones. I thought, you know, the highway highway man song was pretty groovy, but I also think about like that toy maker. And I can't remember like a word of his, of his song, but the way he's saying like, there's this warble to his voice.
00:46:50
Speaker
I enjoyed it. Like the frantic pace of that song, I can't even remember what it's called, but them just like saying, Oh, tell us about your lover. You can't get her with those shoes of yours. So you're going to need the cobbler. You're going to need a tailor to get you some new fancy clothes. Tell us about this girl of yours. Oh,
00:47:07
Speaker
That's just how it goes. I don't know if those are actually the words, but it sounded great. Some of that was certainly in there. Some of that was there. That song and just it getting faster and faster, you're like, all right, I'm here. It's just so wild that it's like these are people. They're just here to sing their songs and have a jolly time. There's one of them in the town and that's that. That's the adventure of these people. But this is also the first episode where we get glimpse of the beast.
00:47:36
Speaker
I thought this was episode five in my head. That's why I was like, oh, five is a good endpoint. But this is episode four. But yeah, them acknowledging that there's something more out there. What did you think of the look of the beast specifically? Oh, very, very effective and haunting and creepy. And I love how restrained they were. Again, talking about, you know, just kind of the simple shapes and just using those shapes to like, you know,
00:48:05
Speaker
maximum capacity in terms of like the sinister nature of this character, kind of like the unknowable quantity to this character. So like, yeah, I'm thoroughly impressed with the way the beast was handled from beginning to end. So how about you? Yeah, it was
00:48:27
Speaker
like I'm just thinking of all of the different like mythos that it almost brought in like it had the antlers right similar to like hella and all of these other embodiments of death but then just the slinking in the shadows similar to like Slender Man or shadows and Babadook and all of these other just like really good call
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah, just like all of these things that you imagine could be behind you at any point and lurking behind a tree or secretly within a forest and you might not quite notice like, I don't think because I've looked a couple times, but I wouldn't have been surprised had they hidden the beast in a couple of these episodes. I don't think they do. But like that shape, they just totally could have made it morph to whatever they wanted it to be. And it just plays really well, especially with the woman in the tavern aptly named the dark lantern.
00:49:15
Speaker
mentioning that the beast is the one that carries the lantern. Right. That there has to be some parallel between the woodsman and the beast, even though because like you have that moment of, oh, the woodsman must be the beast. You get the reveal that he's not, but you know, there's a connection. You know, there's something deeper going on there. That is like why he was telling the boys to be so scared. He knows something that we don't. Right. Right.
00:49:45
Speaker
Oh, just chilling as I'm thinking about this episode, like, because it is
00:49:50
Speaker
a through-line story, but in dots. It doesn't happen all at once. I kind of forgot how major this was, just hacked onto the end of The Highwayman and The Toymaker. Sure, sure. And I think there's another important distinction to make there. So you talk about how we get the revelation that the woodsman is in fact not the beast, but that's only revealed to us as the audience. So this is one of the few instances where we are working with knowledge that Wirt and Greg are not working with.
00:50:21
Speaker
Uh, so it really does like plant these seeds of doubt that were already kind of there. Like, you know, the woodsman had, you know, proven himself to, you know, be somewhat protective of the boys, but they're still rightly wary of him. Yeah. Very, very justly so.
00:50:42
Speaker
And then we will do a literal time skip here because I'm just going to jump in and say this episode made me feel like I missed an episode. Sure. I kind of like I feel like every other episode there's a little bit of like a preamble where I think actually almost all of them like they're walking in the woods or something along those lines. Like there's a reason they got there. You know why they're there.
00:51:04
Speaker
And then this one, it starts with them at a table with a man they're calling their uncle while a horse is dining with them. Like, that's just how this episode starts. And you're like, what just happened? Where did we go? Hang on a minute. Yeah, you have a good four or five exchanges between characters before work finally says like, hey, Beatrice, why are you convincing this guy that I'm his nephew?
00:51:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, oh, okay, it's a ploy. We don't know this person. They somehow stumbled upon him in the forest. Yes. Yes. You mentioned the similarities that this whole journey has to Wizard of Oz, which I want to come back to, but in this instance, I got Mad Hatter vibes from this guy. This felt like the party with the March Hare and the Mad Hatter.
00:51:51
Speaker
Starting off frantically with this guy that doesn't know, you know up from down and is super eccentric Yes, the the ghost in the other room, but the the woman that I love is also there and you're just like, are you are you good, man? Is everything okay here? Yes This episode has one of my favorite lines When they're wandering through the house or the mansion rather and where it says When they enter the new area and he's like, oh this like French for Coco and
00:52:21
Speaker
doesn't seem like in keeping with his Georgian sensibilities. It's just like, oh, is that something I shouldn't know?
00:52:30
Speaker
Oh, so good. I feel like that's that little bit of the real world leaking in that Greg just enjoys architecture or something along those lines. That's a secret passion of his realm. But again, one of those weird red herrings that the show drops where you're like, that should mean something. Why does he know this? But you just take it as a joke. You're like, he knows Georgian.
00:52:57
Speaker
all these other styles. But yeah, that I completely forgot about that line that is out of left field. I will say had I been the one to do the introduction to the episode, I think that's how I would have opened it. I would have been like, you know, the French Rococo to my Gregorian sensibilities, Mr. Andrew Rogers. That's oh, that's good. That's
00:53:23
Speaker
I'm so derailed about thinking anything else besides that scene of him and Beatrice just doing that. I think that's kind of important that you mentioned that, though, because this does really further that relationship that I talked about the previous episode with Beatrice and Wirt, but you sounded like you had some thoughts on it, so don't let me steal your thunder here. No, I would be stealing yours because that's exactly what I was going to say.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah, just the whole interaction of them being locked in the closet together. Or is it a wardrobe? I think, yeah, it's a wardrobe. And Beatrice sharing her... I think this is where she shares the fact that she used to be human and she got her family turned into Blue Jays. I don't know if that revelation comes later, but we definitely get the
00:54:10
Speaker
the first revelation that she used to be human, right? Yes. I think it's a revelation of her and her whole family. But at this point, we don't quite know why or what. It's just kind of dropped. And I think that's what starts to make work feel more for her. It's like, oh, you are out here to save your family in the same way I'm out here to try and save mine, to go on this journey. So it is very much an embodiment.
00:54:38
Speaker
I can't I might be wrong as well. I think this also is the first episode where we get mention of like, works life. I think he teases while they're locked in there like, Oh, there's this girl. And I think you hear Jason Funderberger's name and you're like, Who is Jason Funderberger? But yeah, there's those little again, just sprinkles of things that feel like throw away lines at the time. Yeah, yeah.
00:55:03
Speaker
No, I think you're correct in that. That's really where we start to get more of a sense of who Wirt is. But I think before he shares those secrets, like his initial instinct is to like share the fact that he likes poetry and he plays the clarinet and stuff like that. And like Beatrice has to tell him like, those aren't secrets. Those are personality traits. So the fact that like,
00:55:24
Speaker
That kind of just sums up who Wirt is to me. I really feel for Wirt in that moment. He's got this insecurity about him that he feels like the quirks that make him who we are, or who he is rather, what makes him special, which makes people like him. He's so scared to show that to people for fear of rejection.
00:55:44
Speaker
Yes. You stole the words right out of my mouth. Like I was I was saving that toward more of the end as well. Okay. Which is no totally fine. Like it's an apt place to talk about it because I think that's one of the coolest revelations that we get is like, everyone did like work. Work just thought no one would like work. Like it was all in his head. Like, you know, why
00:56:07
Speaker
not have the clarinet be a thing that is cool to him when in reality he's probably playing it so that he can join marching band and hang out with these people who want to hang out with him but he is so
00:56:19
Speaker
locked within his own emotion of like, well, why would Beatrice care about who I am or any of these things that are like parts of me? She just like, why would she like that? Why would she like poetry? And I almost got like vibes that I thought there was gonna be like a blossoming romance between these two at some point. Yeah. Largely because we didn't know that Beatrice at that point was like mostly adult woman. So I was like, maybe she is like the same age. Yeah, point.
00:56:47
Speaker
Yeah, no, I don't think you're off base with that. It is kind of funny because like if if we're just had a little bit more confidence, like he's he's a little bit of a player. Like, you know, he I think there are like some moments of like that with with Beatrice and then a character that we'll talk about in a little more detail later on. But yeah.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, or it's a likable guy. He just needs to have a little more confidence in himself. He does just like this Baron had with the other T Baron because the fact that they both loved each other was such another like, Oh, you thought you were both ghosts, but you're both in luck. You two are a match made in heaven. That's weird.
00:57:25
Speaker
Yeah, they were perfect for each other. Like, who builds a mansion and doesn't realize it connects to another mansion? To another mansion? Like, we have seen miles of woods, yet you two are on top of each other and never knew. How interesting.
00:57:38
Speaker
Right. Oh, and this is one of the like perfect showcases. Like I talked about the visual imagery here. And when they receive the two pennies from what was his name? Indicott, something like that. Quincy Indicott. Yes. Quincy Indicott. Yeah. So they get the two pennies from him. And again, like Greg in Greg fashion just definitely goes and throws them in a fountain. But you watch the two pennies sinking in the water. Definitely on this rewatch. Like I was like, OK, they are.
00:58:08
Speaker
setting up the themes so, so strongly in the show. Yes, that was where it really comes in. And also, interestingly, this is where John Cleese made his appearance. And then I just looked it up. It's Bebe Neuwirth is Marguerite Gray, the other T Baron, which I did not even pick up when I was listening to all of that. OK.
00:58:32
Speaker
What is she known for? Bibi. Newer. Bibi. I mean, she was in Jumanji. Cheers. How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. She was in the Sandman podcast series. Like she has done other was in Duncanville.
00:58:48
Speaker
Uh, has done a lot of voice acting and also some, uh, decent roles in other, um, live action things as well. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. It wasn't just wasn't a name that I, uh, instantly recognized, but I do see she's got a pretty notable body of work here. So I've definitely seen her.
00:59:08
Speaker
Yes, probably without realizing. Just like so many of these talented voice actors, the more you don't realize, the better they are is how we always like to talk about it. But that's why it's so nice to bring up who these people are, because thinking about it being Elijah Wood is so, so funny to me. Yeah. Anyway, we haven't really gotten into the voice acting too, too much. But yeah, we talked about it a little bit with Christopher Lloyd. But yeah, Elijah Wood, Frodo Baggins himself.
00:59:38
Speaker
Couldn't be a more perfect casting choice. No, maybe that's why I was getting like gnome vibes is like gnome is pretty close to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:51
Speaker
Yeah, I see it now. It's all there. It's just in my head. You want to move on to Episode 6? Yeah, let's move on to Episode 6. Lullaby in Frogland. Lullaby in Frogland. So right out of the gate, I want to say, in the previous episode, you mentioned how the setup was kind of abrupt. We just were dropped into a scene. And I feel like this episode continued that trend a little bit, not as aggressively.
01:00:17
Speaker
we do just kind of start on the ferry, but that's not as abrupt as the previous transition because they were just talking about riding the ferry and while they didn't have the pennies anymore, it doesn't take too long for us to find out that they actually snuck aboard the ferry.
01:00:33
Speaker
Yes, I think that's what it was. Immediately. I sat there like, well, how'd they get in the ferry? Like Greg just threw those in the fountain. What are you talking about? It's like, oh, they snuck aboard. Like they answer it quick enough that I kind of forgot that it's basically just opened on the ferry. Right. Yeah. But yeah, this one is so fun. Because why are there so many frogs? Why is this frog naked? Like, again, more questions that are just thrown out immediately. And you're like, Yeah, wait, why is the frog naked?
01:01:01
Speaker
Yeah. Is this where Greg starts like the little arc where he's calling the frog by president's names? Like I feel like he, this is where he starts with like George Washington or something like that. Somewhere around here. I think it might be from like here to the end of the show, it was George Washington, if I'm not mistaken. Until, from here until- I thought it was Greg Junior at one point. Oh, Greg Junior was in there.
01:01:27
Speaker
I'm actually going to look up a list if you want to talk about this episode a little bit. I want to look up a list of all the names Greg uses for the frogs or the frog. This episode might be almost the most Scooby Doo at times actually now that I think about it just with like the chase scenes around the boat where it's very like old school slapstick kind of things going on and then they come out stacked up in a trench coat because
01:01:52
Speaker
Why wouldn't you be a very, very tall frog? Like that's just old school cartoony things that again, fit very well in this format.
01:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, this was definitely the most slapstick of the episodes and the fact that it even takes part on a ferry. I might be pulling at strings a little bit here, but I kind of feel some illusions to maybe like Steamboat Willie and Mickey Mouse and that.
01:02:24
Speaker
I feel like you can't not think of that. As soon as you see a cartoon steamboat, I agree. It's just right where I go. One of the things that kind of unsettles me though is shenanigans and suing. When people were slipping or tripping on tadpoles, that upset me. It only upset the parents, but it upset me too. It was just such a weird thing because you're just like, those are children. That's just dropping babies and now you're stepping. Oh gosh, what's happening?
01:02:53
Speaker
That was weird. But also, I loved how they needed music. Those frogs were not messing around. The band stopped playing, and they just had to keep going. But now I'm just reminded of the joke that Greg was wearing the drum on his face and just hitting himself in the face over and over. Just hit ow, hit ow, hit ow. It's like, just take it off your face, buddy. No one's going to be mad anymore.
01:03:19
Speaker
left it on there. And this is the episode where we get the whole, they did the thing, they did the thing, it's called over the garden wall and they said over the garden wall or they sang over the garden wall. The frog doing his dulcet tones there eventually has the lyric over the garden wall. Nice. Yeah, I believe the song is titled Over the Garden Wall and it's got Jones coming in.
01:03:45
Speaker
Like it starts to pull all those pieces together because you see the frog playing the piano in the opening and you're like, that's that's weird. That's never come back up. Right. Right. Yeah. And then to find out that because you don't you see the frog playing the piano, you don't see the frog singing in the opening. Right. And it's not until this point that you realize the frog is basically the narrator slash singer that we have at the beginning that is opening this whole story up.
01:04:12
Speaker
Which is such a fun moment to have all those pieces come together like that. For sure, for sure. I do think it's worth mentioning that I think this is where Adelaide starts to show some remorse and some hesitation in her plan because she's actively trying to sabotage. Beatrice. Oh yeah, Beatrice. I said Adelaide.
01:04:33
Speaker
You did say Adelaide. Well, that's well, I thought you were going to the actual point. It's not only this is where she starts showing remorse. It's actually the end of this episode where they meet up with Adelaide. Oh, that does happen in this episode. Yeah, I forgot that all took place within this episode. Yeah. Wow. Yes, so much happens. I was like, we'll cover the fun and then we will go into the.
01:04:55
Speaker
the craziness that ensues because yeah, it's literally they get off the boat. And she's like, Ah, let's, you know, wait overnight. And that's where the frogs all cozy down in the mud. And it's odd. I don't know why it's odd. But I sat there like, I don't know how I feel about this. Um, just the whole time. But yeah, they sleep. And that's what Beatrice leaves to try and convince her and they wake up. And I just Where did you go? Yeah, happens, which is
01:05:21
Speaker
crazy. And yeah, that's she tries to stop the betrayal to no avail, unfortunately. And I, I want to be mad at work for leaving her behind. But it's a great example of he did the right thing. Like cutting the bonds and being like, we can't trust Beatrice anymore. We have to go. We need to go someplace else. That moment.
01:05:46
Speaker
Yeah, you have to respect him for doing that, but it's also, it's kind of heartbreaking too because it's like he had finally started to open up and he was just proven right, like all his reservations and all his fears, like to be, you know, kind of cautious of everyone and keep everybody at arm's length. Like I feel like that really drives his
01:06:09
Speaker
his mind space in the next couple of episodes and the way he in turn treats his brother. Well, it's him proving himself right. In his own mind, he's proving himself right because he doesn't think all these people will like him for his traits like we mentioned. Now he has someone who betrayed him that he thought was getting close. No, I should have kept them away because they don't appreciate me for me. They sold me out.
01:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I will use this as an opportunity to bring up something. I won't even call it like a nitpick or a complaint, but it's just something that maybe makes me scratch my head a little bit. So Adelaide was presented as such a thrust for the story and
01:06:52
Speaker
even with the revelation that she's evil, like she gets taken out like really easily. Like all it takes is fresh air and she's done like she melts away, which, you know, we talk a little bit about the comparisons to Wizard of Oz. I guess that's pretty fitting, like the Wicked Witch of the West at the end of the day got taken out pretty easily, too.
01:07:10
Speaker
Exactly. Like, as soon as you said that, I was like, oh, it's Wicked Witch of the West. There you go. Yeah. But also she's indoors. Indoor people, they're just gonna get burned as soon as they go outside in the sun. We know how this goes. For sure.
01:07:25
Speaker
For sure. All right. I guess before, real quickly, before we move on to the next episode, I do have the list of names that Gregory uses for his Lucky Frog in the order that he uses them. So we have Kitty, Wirt, Wirt Jr., George Washington, Mr. President, Benjamin Franklin, Dr. Cucumber, Greg Jr., Skipper, Ronald, and Dr. Thunderburger.
01:07:51
Speaker
When was Dr. Cucumber used? I don't remember that at all. I can't remember specifically, but I definitely remember it. I do remember hearing it.
01:07:59
Speaker
Oh my gosh, there's so many names for this rock. I recognize most of them. I was not expecting you to pull out ones that I didn't remember. I didn't remember Skipper or Ronald. I think I remembered all the rest of them. Skipper and Ronald is also, I feel like I remember Ronald. I think that was right near the end. Okay.
01:08:24
Speaker
One other thing real quickly while we're in between episodes here, we talked about Elijah Wood and we talked about some of the other voice actors, but I do want to give a lot of credit to Colin Dean as Gregory. This is not an actor I'm super familiar with. I see that he's done a number of animated things. It looks like The Loud House was probably his other big thing, which I've never seen, but I've heard good things about and I think it's been running for
01:08:47
Speaker
a good while at Nickelodeon. So it has to be, you know, somewhat successful there, but like he does such a great job just capturing the, the innocence and the whimsy that is, that is Greg.
01:09:01
Speaker
I think it's also important to note we it's very easy, especially in the world of voice acting, to just be like, Oh, this child is an adult. Like, and there's some great people who do that. Tara Strong is like the first one that comes to mind has played a bunch of like child characters. But this is a actual child did the voice of Greg. And he's only 18 now. So
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah why nine years he was only nine years old when he did this yeah that's crazy to think that like did such a clean up job with it there was never a point where you were like oh this is too. For lack of a better word child like.
01:09:42
Speaker
Right. He was always very professional with the delivery, but making it sound like a kid in wonder like it didn't, it didn't come off in a way of like, Oh, we recorded a kid in a studio by letting them play with toys and holding the mic. Like, no, this was actually a great delivery of just young child doing young child. So credit to them for that.
01:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, they're very good at delivering that earnest nature. A few times throughout the show, Greg says something like, anything is possible if you believe.
01:10:13
Speaker
good enough, but I actually found one of my favorite lines that he uses a couple times, which is a little uncharacteristic for Greg. It's not often that he kind of like gives in and accepts things as they are, but every once in a while he has this line where he's like, ain't that just the way I just love the way he delivered that because it, like you talk about him being a kid, but it has like this lived in like world where he like wait to it and he's able to do that so well.
01:10:37
Speaker
Uh, when you started to say that, I was like, is he teeing this up to just be like, yeah, you know, when it doesn't go his way, he just says, and that's a rock fact, because that might be one of my favorite great quotes. That is pretty great too. Like that's kind of where I was like, no, he's not going there. Is he? Um, I like your answer a little bit better, but that's a rock fact was like every time I told that that rock, I was like, Oh my God, that's hilarious. Yeah, it was pretty great. Another, just like this kid is a kid. I've met this kid that just has a rock in his pocket and you're just like,
01:11:07
Speaker
did you get that? It just you don't have to worry gets it later on. We do. We do find out that gets it. All right. Yeah, let's talk about episode seven, the ringing of the bell.
01:11:23
Speaker
Ding, ding, ding. The scariest episode, I feel like unequivocally the fact that we talked about three of the characters that I think show up in this episode has to be considered the scariest. But yeah, it's this one being the first one without Beatrice really makes you wonder, like, how different would this have been? How scared off would Beatrice have been and been like, we have to get out of here. We can't stay here. Like Beatrice have even let this happen in the first place.
01:11:52
Speaker
Actually, my immediate reaction, as you were saying, that was like, hell no. That's just who Beatrice is. Even when they were in Pottsfield, she was talking about how she didn't really like the vibe. That was before she had developed more affection for these two boys. But the more I think about it, she knew Adelaide, and at the end of this episode, Auntie Whispers mentions that Adelaide is her sister.
01:12:13
Speaker
So I wonder if Beatrice even like maybe knew Auntie Whispers in which case she might know that Auntie Whispers is more, you know, don't judge a book by its cover because while she is incredibly grotesque, she's actually somewhat well-meaning.
01:12:32
Speaker
Yes, well meaning and just the perfect flip of a trope because I immediately was just like, oh, this is Rapunzel and Mother Gothel. That's what's happening here is like you have the, you know, person working them too hard telling them they can't go outside. It's a dangerous world controlling them. And no, it was for good reason. It was for very good reason, because Lorna is terrifying. Right. As much as I was like, oh, this is gonna be a cute little budding romance here. Nope, nope, nope.
01:13:02
Speaker
Yeah, I love the use of the blushing to show when we're just smitten with someone. Just very cute. Very cute indeed. Just like the bucket of turtles that they hid in. I love the way that they animated turtles in this show. I don't know why. It's just so simple and squiggly that they look. I really I just wanted to call that out for now.
01:13:26
Speaker
Yeah, the turtles are great. The turtles are great. The design with the turtles is consistent from what we saw coughed up by the dog all the way back in episode one. Yes, it is the same turtle, squiggly little candy turtle. Yeah.
01:13:43
Speaker
All right, I guess one thing I want to hone in on with this episode is talking about Auntie Whispers. And she's got this bell that she kind of uses to keep Lorna at bay. And again, this is one of those instances where when Lorna does make her revelation, she's absolutely terrifying, but the solution ends up being relatively easy. Like they just use the bell that has now been eaten by the frog to tell her, to tell the spirit, like, you got to get out of here and you can't come back. And it's like, boom. And I, you know,
01:14:15
Speaker
at first thought, it's like, okay, why didn't this Auntie Whispers lady think of that? But the fact is she enjoyed Lorna's company and she didn't want to lose Lorna if Lorna didn't need her. So it's almost, you get a little bit of, what is that, Monchowser syndrome? I feel like I'm touching that. Something like that. Yeah, it's, it is a very, like there is still that element of control. Like we can't entirely say that Auntie Whispers was,
01:14:44
Speaker
best interest because it's the same as like My kid I don't want them to grow up because what happens when they don't need me what happens when they leave But I did love that it took the happy ending route as opposed to like Lorna being sure upset like why did you keep me? Controlled for so long when you could have freed me instead like no, why would I leave you auntie? Like this is this is where I belong I want to stay with
Episode 8 'Babes in the Wood' - Themes and Theories
01:15:08
Speaker
you. I want to help you out. I want to make everything right and
01:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Nice to get a happy ending on such a terrifying episode otherwise. Yes, like enough heel turns for one episode. Let's end on a good note. All right. Now we have, what's that? No, nothing. Okay. Now we have episode eight, Babes in the Wood.
01:15:37
Speaker
And this is an episode that doesn't end on a good note. No, it does not. So right out of the gate, I want to say you mentioned beforehand about how your take is that this is all Wurt's fever dream as he's in the throws of, in the process of dying, basically, he's got a deteriorating mind space here. But in this episode, we get to see
01:16:02
Speaker
Uh, Greg's dream. We actually like spend the, I think this is like the only episode where we get to spend time with like Greg on a solo adventure. Uh, I think in the school episode, he had a little scene here and there where he was off doing his own thing, but this is like, uh, where, you know, Greg really gets to do his thing. Cause he was outside with the gorilla. He like recruited the animals that weren't in school, but like degenerate ones and they were trying to catch, they were playing to old cat and they were trying to find the old cats.
01:16:31
Speaker
Oh, that's right. That cat might be too old. They gave the cat milk like, I'm sorry, you're too old for this. As much as I wanted to let it go, I was like, hang on, they were playing too old. I'm so glad you brought that back because that's just one of those throw away things, but it is too good. But no, I bring all that up because like, so now that begs the question, is
01:17:00
Speaker
Greg's dream, a dream within Wurt's dream? Ooh. Hmm. Interesting. Or is this just us getting a glimpse at Wurt's dream that he is having? Or not Wurt's dream. Greg's dream. Jesus. OK. No, it's a very fair question.
01:17:24
Speaker
Cause like it could be a dream within a dream because how else would Wert assume that his brother is like giving himself up to the beast. Is that Wert's assumption at the end? I think he just thinks Greg's gone. I'm just saying within that mind space. Okay. Yeah. Within the head cannon that this is experiencing it. How does he interpret his brother going? But it also just could be like,
01:17:52
Speaker
I don't know if I had to put it into like my own headcanon and I'm not even gonna say this is 100% right answer. My answer is Greg is a young weak kid. Okay, so we're he gets what seven episodes of experiencing all of this and going through the different depths of despair as the beast tries to pull him closer. Mm hmm.
01:18:18
Speaker
Greg, being the young, weak child, he doesn't have that much within him. He has one episode, one dream, this is it, the beast immediately pulls him in. That's my, that's the answer that I'm going to go with off of the top of my head as basically like, okay, that's why the beast got his clutches on him so quick is this is Greg's quick flash and he doesn't know if it's going to be anything else after this.
01:18:41
Speaker
That's, I think that's as good as an answer as we're going to get. And I really liked that answer. So for you to just kind of like, you know, come up with that on the fly, very well done. I appreciate that interpretation.
01:18:53
Speaker
I have a good one every now and again. But while Greg is having this dream, or if it is the dream within the dream, this is where we get some of the most obvious allusions to the Wizard of Oz. As soon as I saw the first welcoming committee, I was like, oh, that's like the Munchkins that were there to welcome her into Munchkin's land, and it was the lollipop field.
01:19:16
Speaker
We come to represent the lollipop you just like just like that except for you get three committees. Yes, which is perfect because they say in comedy like you're supposed to like revisit a punch line like three times to really, really drive it home. So you get that third one. And then Greg even says, well, that anymore. Good. That's that's enough. That seems like the right number.
01:19:41
Speaker
Yes. And like, that was it was perfect because it petered off at that point. But there were so many just zany crazy characters like the floating heads. And there's a pizza monster or not pizza monster, just a pizza with legs and a face. Like so many little things that you're like, Oh, this is just straight up the mind of a child. Oh, yeah. And
01:20:02
Speaker
it coming in with the actual, it was the wind of the east that is actually, or the north wind, wind of the east. I'm just pulling out too many directions at this point. But then you had the Queen of the Clouds, which is very much like Glinda the Good Witch also coming in just like Wizard of Oz. There's a lot more Wizard of Oz than I like anticipated talking about coming into this podcast. Oh, sure. Yeah.
01:20:29
Speaker
Oh, I would even say, uh, the character designs, like the characters themselves kind of look like scarecrows, especially like their, their noses, like wort. Um, in particular, a lot of them have got kind of like triangular nose, like a raggedy and all or like a scarecrow. Yeah. And he is a very.
01:20:46
Speaker
Well, he's not cowardly lion, but he's I don't know if he needs a brain so much, but he's got the brain. That's that's probably what Scott going for more than anything. Well, sometimes to a fault, I think he's probably one of those overthinkers. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then, yeah, you had more illusions to their ultimate fate with the fishing fish sitting on the water there as everything transpired throughout the dreams and the episode there.
01:21:16
Speaker
Yeah, so you compared the Queen of the Clouds to Glinda, was it Glinda or Glendora, the Good Witch, whatever, Glinda. I have another interpretation. Okay. It kind of feeds into your thought that this might just be the little snippet of Greg's dream that we get to see.
01:21:37
Speaker
Without sport. Well, I mean we're already in the spoiler section, but I don't want to get too much into like the final episodes here But some of the revelations we get about the beast and the way the beast enters deals with people and I think like Faustian deals are a big theme of this whole show, too
01:21:53
Speaker
uh like she's the one that presents greg with this deal and greg ends up taking a deal with the beast but that deal is actually made with her so is this just another facade like a way that the beast because i also think you know there's an argument to be made that the beast could be you know uh looking at like you know
01:22:12
Speaker
Christian theology and whatnot, like it could be Satan and Satan's known to like present himself as like a tempter and appear beautiful, but actually, you know, have, you know, nefarious and sinister intentions. So I just thought that was worth, you know, discussing at least a little bit. No, I think you are, if we're going with my headcanon, I feel like that perfectly aligns with it in the idea of like,
01:22:37
Speaker
That's who Greg saw him giving himself over to. Because if you remember that, Queen of the Clouds was like, oh, you can come with me, but your brother cannot. This is how it's going to go. And that's exactly what he ends up going along with, is going with the beast so his brother doesn't have to die. Yeah.
01:22:59
Speaker
Sorry if I looked a little bit distracted there. I'm pretty sure an earthquake just happened. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I saw your camera shaker. I'm guessing you're good then, if this is. Yeah, yeah. I think it's OK. I mean, we're still live on the air. We still don't have any Wi-Fi drops. Well, I'm glad you're OK. If we need to pause, we shall pause. No, no, no. I think we're good. I just wanted to kind of took me out of the conversation for a second. So I just wanted to address it. No, you're all good. All right.
01:23:29
Speaker
Yes, a 2.9 magnitude earthquake. Oh no, that was the other morning. No, I don't know.
01:23:36
Speaker
Nothing yet.
Episode 9 'Into the Unknown' - Context and Character Dynamics
01:23:38
Speaker
I'll find out. Let's move on, because we're going longer than I anticipated. Not that it's a terrible thing, but. Yeah, I anticipated this being like a half hour episode. We are well over that point. And we still have the need of this to go to. So without further ado, the episode that entirely just makes you question what you have been doing with this whole time, Episode 9, Into the Unknown.
01:24:03
Speaker
Yes, indeed. Interesting thing about this episode, I did learn that when the show was originally created, this was supposed to be the first episode, and they wisely chose to save it to the end. Yeah, I agree.
01:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, because like, it makes sense as the first episode, because it entirely puts everything in perspective, but the mystery aspect of it works so much better when you have no idea what you're watching. Where is these kids home that they're trying to get to? What what is the inevitable end goal? And like,
01:24:38
Speaker
Even though I knew immediately, as soon as it jumped to, this is a kid in the real world, I was like, okay, something's gonna happen. This is the before story. I still loved getting that reveal.
01:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think at this point in the story, I had kind of accepted that they were not in their own world, and there was a real world that existed outside of this nether world that they were in. But I still didn't have a good gauge on the time period. So I was expecting a 20s, 30s kind of vaudeville time period, which I think the show borrows kind of heavily from. Yes. But to have it be a lot more modern, just like, yeah.
01:25:21
Speaker
completely, you know, threw things off balance in a great way, like, really, really just like, you know, move the story forward in such unexpected and big ways. But one of the standout moments of this episode, and as it's titled into the unknown, is when you really do get you get to figure out why
01:25:40
Speaker
Work has the garb that he has when he put dons on this for halloween steps out the door and says into the unknown but he's talking about you know the unknown situation with this crush and letting her know how he feels giving her this tape.
01:25:55
Speaker
Yes, I think that's probably the coolest part of this is and why we made it a Halloween special is that this whole thing takes place because of Halloween. Like that's the reason they're in their outfits, watching him and the outfit still does not make sense to me. Like I don't know what he's actually supposed to be, but he cut the felt off or the fuzz off of a Santa hat to give him the pointy hat. He found, I think, an old Civil War cloak.
01:26:22
Speaker
Looks like that his cloak because that's what the hat looked like this very like Civil War era Military hat so it's just like this wild thing, but it's my favorite Favorite revelation is why Greg has the teapot on his head. Yes, and it's because it's an elephant costume That made me so happy. I was like, oh my god. He's an elephant. Yes. I I love this for this child It's amazing. Yeah, like when he says here's my trunk and
01:26:47
Speaker
I wanted to say here's my ear as well because I was just like, man, that is so good. So good. Now I need to find a really big teapot for Halloween. That's there you go. Get that on the list. But no, it's the funniest reveal because he is just a child. Like that's the whole thing that like we learn the complex relationship that Greg has with or not Greg that work has with himself, with his brother, with his friends. Because as I mentioned earlier, you see throughout this whole episode, everyone likes work.
01:27:16
Speaker
Yeah, like when he stumbles upon them in the graveyard. They're like, Oh, is that Greg? Where's brother? Hey, we're what are you doing over there? Like, we're happy to see him. He shows up to the party. He's like, Oh, we can't be here. I wasn't invited. And everybody's like, Oh, hey, we're what are you doing here? Come on in. Like, there's all those complex relationships. Whereas Greg is the same Greg that we've seen this whole show, just in a 90s 2000s era, as opposed to what was previously a fantasy.
01:27:44
Speaker
long ago era. Like it just translates exactly.
01:27:48
Speaker
Yeah. And this episode really just hits in the feels and I think has one of the most heartbreaking moments in terms of getting more context to the relationship Wirt and Greg have. And I think about the scene where Wirt says, you're ruining my life again like you always do. And it's you and your stupid dad. And we do get the confirmation that it might have been brought up before the fact that they're half brothers.
01:28:15
Speaker
But him saying like when your dad and you try to encourage me to join marching band like I don't like like it's so obvious like these people care about him and are trying to encourage him but he just takes that the wrong way and I I think it's at the end of this episode or somewhere in the vicinity where he I hate that I can't remember which character he's relating to it as well, but he says something to the effect of like
01:28:41
Speaker
I think it's Beatrice. Beatrice is telling him, we have to go get your brother before he dies or whatever. It says something to the effect. I was no good to him in life, so I have to be good to him in death.
01:28:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's rough. This is this is where it starts to get real. And there's some raw lines like that where you're just like, Yeah, whoa, they wrote their butts off with this. But interestingly, I thought you were going to challenge me that this was a brink of death fantasy or it actually happened. Um,
01:29:13
Speaker
Previously or earlier in the episode when you were like, remind me later, we're going to have a conversation about this. I thought that was going to be your whole question that was going to come up here. Well, it starts to it starts to take place here. Yes. But I guess the other like big piece for me that like really leaves me because I do think it's open to interpretation outside of one small thing. And it's the frog, the fact that the frog swallowed the bell. And then once we do get the transition back to the, quote unquote, real world,
01:29:43
Speaker
The frog still has the bell. Yes, I. I think there is also another interpretation that is very fun. We see Quincy Endicott's grave in the graveyard in this episode, which is a fun nod, but be.
01:30:02
Speaker
did they legitimately go to the underworld and come back? Like, there is also just the entire, like, that's what you said, the frog has the bell. Did they literally go and return? Like, is that what happened? Or is it just this weird semblance of coincidences where, like, he heard the bell, and that's what his mind was putting together in the last minute? Like, there's so many options. And I think that is really cool, especially because they don't
01:30:29
Speaker
And this kind of gets into the last episode. I feel like we're talking about all of them. So I don't think it matters too much. Sure. The end end of this show is the happy endings that everyone gets. Right. The woodsman is with his family. Beatrice is with her family.
01:30:47
Speaker
Lorna and anti whispers are together like we get all of those happy endings of every single group that we had and I think including that does have some implication of maybe it wasn't a dream because Mm-hmm where it's not dreaming anymore so how do we get that happy ending without it unless there is also a lot of crumpled paper on words desk when we see him record the
01:31:10
Speaker
Mixtape is a writer. Is this an entire story from work that he came up with that? He decided to write out just again. It can go so many directions Yeah, no, I think you're right. And I think it is left open to like the viewers interpretation like there's the movie inception I'll try to not spoil it entirely but if you know the ending of inception, you know what I'm getting at here how you know, it's it's open to interpretation open for debate, which I love I think that
01:31:39
Speaker
kind of makes its kind of last in the zeitgeist and the lexicon, given the fact that it is a mini series, just 10 episodes, 150 minutes in total. And while it does seem to have garnered like a cult following and critical acclaim, there's been no talk about any kind of continuation outside of the comic books and graphic novels, which I kind of appreciate because this thing is just, it doesn't need to be anymore. They knew the story they wanted to tell and they told that story.
01:32:09
Speaker
But something that kind of came up while you were talking about, you know, the journey back and forth from the afterlife. And we've, you know, we've talked about all the comparisons to Wizard of Oz. I'm surprised it hadn't dawned on me at all before this conversation, but Coco.
01:32:26
Speaker
another one of my absolute favorite animations and one that really hit me in the fields, um, was Coco and same kind of thing. You know, he makes, I guess I won't, I'll try to avoid spoilers there, but there are similar themes. I guess I will say if you know, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So many great illusions and so many great things.
01:32:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like we did already kind of transition into the final episode here, the unknown, but I do want to just talk about some specifics and get your thoughts on some of the things that went down, like the revelation about the beast and the nature of the lantern. And, you know, again, the proposition for work to take on the mantle of the lantern holder or lantern keeper, what have you.
Conclusion and Symbolism Discussion
01:33:11
Speaker
I got to say, I mean, I think this is one of the most satisfying conclusions
01:33:17
Speaker
ever done. I can't really point a single flaw. Yeah, no, it comes together so well, especially because it's a mix of illusions toward like shared trauma and passing that on, as well as just like watching the woodsman have to come to terms with his own grief.
01:33:37
Speaker
is just like, you know, you don't think that he's a main character, but secretly he is watching him realize like, she was never in this lantern. This was never my daughter. I can't keep holding on to this. I have to let go. I need to shut out the beast that
01:33:54
Speaker
perhaps even is a metaphor that the beast is himself that he needs to let himself, you know, get over whatever destructive tendencies that he has that is holding him on is just crazy and like chills even talking about it. Um, but yeah, just
01:34:09
Speaker
I mentioned there are some raw lines. This episode is the one that comes to mind and there's two specifically. And it's the beast saying no, there's only me. There's only my way. There's only the forest and there's only surrender. Like, that is the perfect way that a devil will draw you in that it will just be like, no, you're going to do this my way because this is the only way forward. And then just like
01:34:32
Speaker
were in the final moments, standing up and being like, I have the lantern, I can do this. And the beast looking at him and saying, Are you ready to see true darkness? Holy crap, kid, you are the bravest person ever because that is trauma to a child. It's such a moment like we've
01:34:54
Speaker
Seen word on this journey and you know where he started out at the beginning or even how he's like living his life in the quote unquote real world to to face that absolute terror and be the hero and be the brave one and call the bluff like what an absolute just.
01:35:10
Speaker
Victorious moments and you know you see it on the on the woodsman's face like the kind of immediate regret that he has like Why didn't I ever question this like it took a kid to be wiser than than I was because my grief consumed me Yeah, that's exactly it is like You need someone to question you need someone to save you from the darkness from the beast And that's what we did. Yeah that he did that he did so
01:35:41
Speaker
I feel like that is a fantastic place as much as I did. Now I feel like we should talk about the start of this episode was so funny. Him asking Greg for the items. Like, Oh, did you bring me the golden comb and it's a honeycomb? And I'm just like, how did how did they get away with this being like, oh, I
01:36:03
Speaker
need to like, have all of the usual like, specific items so I could do a seance and it's just a child bringing all the stuff like, is this just, again, warts mind being like, I don't know what these things that I've heard about in movies are. So I'm gonna, you know, just have a honeycomb be the golden comb. Like, I don't know. Like, was he feeding Dante's inferno in school and like, I don't know.
01:36:28
Speaker
You're you're in your take and you read on it that way again I Kind of read that scene in a different way. I mean, I think it's there like the Guardians of the galaxy volume to the baby Groot, you know sequence of him going back and forth from the soul with various items that kind of is reminiscent of that or maybe the other way around because this came out before Guardians of the galaxy volume to but
01:36:52
Speaker
My my just kind of take was I didn't think about it too much past that so I kind of love that you did is like to me I got the sense that the beast didn't care about these items it didn't matter what Greg went out and got he was just trying to wear them down exhaust him oh I like that yeah yeah it's a kid he could have been doing either and I again awesome to be open to interpretation mm-hmm
01:37:18
Speaker
Okay, I've gone quite long. I feel like I did get everything I wanted to say out this episode. I feel like the biggest thing is hopefully just getting more people to watch it. That was my whole goal of this is to help the people who haven't seen it and rejoice to all of the fans that have because this is a great cult.
01:37:41
Speaker
Just out of curiosity, how did you watch it? Did you catch it on Hulu or is it something that you own or did you watch it another way? Currently on Max, what used to be HBO Max because Cartoon Network. Oh, that was my first instinct. But when I went to go try to find it, I couldn't find it and I thought it might have been part of. Is it not anymore? Maybe we just watched it at different days because I watched mine pretty recently. I couldn't find it on HBO Max.
01:38:11
Speaker
Well, I guess we'll just say for the purpose of the recording, if you can't find that on HBO Max, check Hulu, because I watched it within the last couple of days on Hulu. Okay. The thing is, my friend actually had the DVDs, so that's how we watched it, but I have seen it when I watched it last year, it was on Max. So I just assumed, but yeah, I would check those two places most likely.
01:38:35
Speaker
but Max may have removed it. I'm actually seeing an article in August that they are talking about cutting their smaller shows due to low viewership. So may not be there currently, but if it's on Hulu, we have it on Hulu. It is on Hulu. Perfection. Yep. Yep.
01:38:51
Speaker
All right. Well, hopefully you've enjoyed this journey that we've been on together. We're not brothers in the half brother sense, but we are brothers on this podcast. We will say brothers in animation. That's right. That's right. So, um,
01:39:07
Speaker
What do you want to let the people know about what's going on otherwise in the world of Andrew? Otherwise in the world of Andrew, it's Jujutsu Kaisen season as I'm sure many of you who follow this podcast know myself and Suher have been following that religiously week to week. I am going to be disappearing for a few weeks to take a trip to Japan, but that just should make you all tune back in because I'm sure there is going to be many tales told of what Japan is like going to the home of anime, especially while Jujutsu Kaisen
01:39:37
Speaker
and Spy Family and Attack on Titan are all coming out at the same time. I don't come up with a better time to be at the home of anime. So that'll be fun to say the least. So, so cool. Amped for you. And I'm glad you mentioned Spy Family season two, because had we not gone as long as we'd had here, I definitely wanted to get your quick thoughts, but we don't really have time for that now. But
01:40:03
Speaker
Spy family two of spy family season two is out. The movie is going to be out in December. So we're going to be doing some kind of coverage, either in retrospect or in preparation for the movie. But I will say I'm watching it and enjoying it. Yeah, for me, just, you know, continue to support animation deliberation.
01:40:20
Speaker
Also check out multiverse news a lot of great stuff going on over there and Invincible season two is just around the corner. So November 3rd is when that drops and One way or another that's going to be covered. So get excited Very nice. I'm super excited for Both you guys covering it and all of you out there. They get to listen. Yes, indeed Alrighty. Well, thank you all so much for tuning in that's T double o in I am I
01:40:49
Speaker
and until the autumn colors fall once again, muscle muscle.
01:41:00
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.