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Legend with Bryant Hawkins - The Longest Hour and a Half Ever
29 Plays3 months ago
Debate Time! Join Bryant and I as we talk Ridley Scott's 1985 Legend! It is definitely not his best work for a lot of reasons and we discuss a lot of them.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Breaking News
00:00:01
Speaker
um We interrupt your regularly scheduled programming to bring you some breaking news. There's been reports all over the area of something crazy going on. Something big. People's homes, their minds even, are being taken over by something called... What is it they're calling it? They're calling it Bad Movie ja Debate!
Return to 'Bad Movie Debate' and Mission Impossible Reflection
00:00:19
Speaker
What up, nerds? It's me, Jacob Babb, for Bad Movie Debate, here to do a regular-ass normal. We're done with the Mission Impossible stuff. There was a lot of episodes all about Mission Impossible just with Justin, but that's over now. And honestly, thank God, because that last one was kind of bit a bit of a letdown, and to be honest. peaked the middle, and then they just kind of kept getting worse. But that's fine.
00:00:40
Speaker
ah Fuck Scientology. talk about that a lot. You gotta be careful what you say about Scientology. Yeah, but that's all I'll say. I'll just leave it at that.
00:00:52
Speaker
Freedom of speech. Do your own research. I'm allowed to say that. ah you You know. if you know, you know. And if you don't,
Tom Cruise's Early Career and 'Legend'
00:00:57
Speaker
you should. um Anyway, Brian is here. Hey, what's Brian? Hi. Hello. um We're not done with Tom Cruise. We're not done with Tom Cruise, actually. Yeah, all my...
00:01:06
Speaker
I actually didn't even think about that. I didn't even think about that until just now. Because I was watching it and was like, oh yeah, young Tom Cruise. Young Tom Cruise. I even think about it. Yes. Pre-Scientology? Because it's 85? I think I think it's pre, yeah. Because I looked up where in his career this fell and it's like...
00:01:26
Speaker
third movie i think he's young as hell way early he looks the exact same but ridley scott made this yeah after he made blade runner which is wild which is insane insane to be honest uh so today we're talking about uh ridley scott's legend starring tom cruise and tim curry so classic sounds like it's gonna be pretty freaking awesome right We'll see. We'll get there.
Exploring Dark Fantasy Movies
00:01:53
Speaker
um So in that vein, we're doing our, ah ah as we always do, our top five dark fantasy ah movies. Because there's a bunch of them from this time period. yeah like There's some 70s ones, but like it's mostly 80s, mid 90s, where there's just a shit ton of them.
00:02:11
Speaker
I got one that's newer. I got one that's newer that I think would fall into this category. What do you got? What do you got, Brad? right. Do you want to go back and forth are we just going straight through? No, you go. We'll go straight through. right. I'm going to go with my top, Princess Mononoke. Okay.
00:02:28
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, that counts. I think i think it kind counts. That absolutely counts. I have an animated one on here. Not that one, but I have one too. I think it's like top tier of this genre. um Pan's Labyrinth, of course. Of course.
00:02:40
Speaker
um ah There's a film from the... want to say it's like the eighty s called Alice. Have you seen this? It's Polish film. It's Alice in Wonderland. right It's like a real live actor, but everything else is like stop motion horror. Oh, wow. yeah. I don't know that one. It is interesting.
00:03:05
Speaker
i've I watched it probably 15 years ago and it has stuck with me all that time. i mean, that's saying something. Yeah. if you haven seen it since then Worth a watch. Um, and then the fall,
00:03:17
Speaker
The 2006, seven. It's about like a little girl who's in an infirmary like hospital. Okay. In like 1920s, California. Okay.
00:03:31
Speaker
And there's a stunt actor who's broken his legs. Oh my God. Is there anybody like any big names in it? It sounds so familiar. I definitely haven't seen it, but it sounds like so familiar. I'm sure there are actors that are pretty well known. The little girl is played by like the director's daughter, I think.
00:03:47
Speaker
But it's like all kind of Princess Bride. Like he's telling her a story. And it gets fantastical. But it is like one of the most beautifully filmed films. things I have ever seen. Like I watched it couple of months ago at a like movie night, a buddy does, um, like doesn't believe in special effects.
00:04:06
Speaker
So they filmed all over the world, like 27, 28 countries. Like there's this scene where the whole city is blue and he like paid the residents to paint, repaint their houses blue. Like it is next level. Okay. Um, God, that sounds so fucking familiar. Yeah. There's like a TV show called The Fall.
00:04:28
Speaker
That's with Gillian Anderson. Yeah. I haven't seen it. I've seen a few episodes of that. But this is different and and well worth a watch. It's like one of the best films I've seen in a while. The Fall movie. I have to...
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah. up You'll, it's like straight up your alley. It's like visually one of the best things I've seen. Okay. Okay. Yeah. That, yeah that poster. I, yeah yeah, absolutely. I know this, movie I haven't seen it, but I know what this movie is now. yeah Okay. Yeah. Sit down and and give her a watch. All right. I'll fucking do it. And last but not least, uh, Labyrinth, of course. Of course.
Modern Dark Fantasy Gems
00:05:01
Speaker
Of course. I knew Labyrinth was going to be added on yours. it was I was like, i I'm going to go somewhere else. I'm going to a different direction. Because one of us is goingnna men yeah like one of was going Love me some David Bowie. like It's fantastic. One of the Jennifer Connelly's first movies. She's and really good.
00:05:16
Speaker
ah But just David Bowie. David Bowie. Classic. I will say, ah since because I skipped one that I was like, one of us is probably going to mention it. all ah Honorable mention Dark Crystal, Jim Henson. Yeah.
00:05:30
Speaker
Dark Gristle is so good. It's great. I just don't like it as much as these others. No, yeah, yeah. But it was like... It was right there. I was looking up a few and I was like... Because I was like, what all we got? Which ones have I actually seen? I was like, oh, that's a fucking good one. like but But here we are.
00:05:45
Speaker
um So my newer one is ah The Green Knight. haven't seen the green knight it's the it's an a24 it's dev patel it's okay it's sir godwin and the green knight uh basically but a24 tells it and it's really good it's very it's not as like crazy fantastical as one would to think yeah but there is some like fantastic i mean he it's the green knight you know like it's obviously like a supernatural like character and stuff and like it's just beautifully shot and dev patel is just one of my favorites he's just so freaking totally um i highly recommend that one uh okay my animated one is uh the black cauldron the disney yeah you remember that that's a good one i love that movie just the design of the bad guy yeah the animation of it just like has always stuck with is that based on once and future king
00:06:35
Speaker
And there's a little bit of there's a little bit of ah Sir Arthur in there, like ah King Arthur and all that stuff. um It's a book series, like a middle grade like book series as well. But it's heavily influenced by like that kind of English-British mythology and stuff. So there's definitely elements of it.
00:06:53
Speaker
um But it's not like straight up. Like it's not the Sword in the Stone Disney, which is straight up like that. Yeah. But it's it's pretty
'Legend' Ratings and Audience Reactions
00:07:00
Speaker
close. But that just the way the animation of the the bad guy in that just in certain scenes just always stuck with me. It's such weird animation. Like it's instead it's so cool.
00:07:11
Speaker
um And then I have ah Willow. yeah yeah yeah always gotta rip always gotta shout out lucasfilm whenever i can classic because i mean that movie fucking rocks dude that movie is yeah it's been a while since i've seen it but didn't they come out with a new one recently i think they they're the a tv show okay haven't gotten to yet okay yeah haven't either honestly it may be out i don't know uh i think it is or yeah yeah like very recently very recently like the past few months yeah yeah but there's a tv show now so i do want and i do want to watch it but i mean warwick davis like yeah that's all i need is him being willow like it's it's so freaking good um let's see oh i only wrote four down oh what what happened you had an honorable crystal somehow didn't write one down and i can't think of it uh last one uh time bandits
00:08:01
Speaker
i don't think I've seen it. Time bandits. Oh, it's a Terry Gillen. Okay. Uh, it's super weird. It's like, uh, do you know it at all? No, I don't think so It's like a little boy.
00:08:15
Speaker
It's like, it starts as like a little boy and he's just like kind chilling in his room. Um, And these four, uh, like little people just appear out of nowhere. And they're like we gotta go. We gotta go. We gotta go. And they're like, what the fuck? And this giant face starts following them across, like as the wall is expanding in a weird way.
00:08:31
Speaker
This really trippy thing. These guys are, uh, in some kind of like, like other plane of existence kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And they steal, uh, some kind of item or like, or it's a map where they can travel through time with it.
00:08:48
Speaker
Cause they're trying to like rob and like screw over like the big bad evil guy kind of thing. And so like, and like he goes on this adventure, like through time, like they go see Napoleon and like deal with that, like for a bit, all this crazy shit.
00:08:59
Speaker
And it's, uh, yeah. And it's Terry Gilliam. Like what year is this? Eighties. Okay. Something like that. Yeah. mid 80s maybe but around the same time as this probably a little not not into the ninety s so 80s at the latest but honestly maybe even 70s but it's it's really good huh it's it's it's super fun and goofy i'll have to look that up yeah i love a good goofy weird it's so weird but it's so freaking good um love that movie um okay so we've got some pretty good some pretty good movies on here there's some
00:09:30
Speaker
Tough competition for legend to stand up to.
Versions of 'Legend' and Director's Cut Analysis
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, so going right into this perfect segue to ah Rotten Tomatoes, ah tomato meter, 43%.
00:09:43
Speaker
It's pretty rough. It's pretty rough. Pretty bad. ah the The popcorn meter, as they call it now, 73. So the audience loved it. Yeah. That checks out. which isn't which is fair yeah imdb 6.3 right in the middle of the road as they always are on imdb yeah uh literally it's always between six and seven there's never it's 6.1 to 6.9 every single time no matter what movie it's like what's the point it's almost like what's the point but i've been mentioning them every time so here we are did metacritic a little bit more crucial ah crucial or critical there uh
00:10:18
Speaker
30 for the critics and user 6.3 so still yeah hated by the critics more audience likes it more but a little bit yeah yeah now which version did you watch so apparently there's four okay so i only watched one i watched my uh vhs copy uh because i was like i know i own this fucking movie contentious I know, but I knew I had this movie and I was like, well I'm just going to watch it on that.
00:10:47
Speaker
And then I was trying to find like online, like where can I watch the director's cut? Archive.org. Archive.org. That's where i found it. Cause I looked at archive.org and like some people talking about it and they're like, no, that's the, that's the theatrical cut. They had both. They did have both. Okay. yeah I should have looked a little harder, I guess.
00:11:03
Speaker
Yeah. um But I was like, whatever. The VHS copy is fine. Yeah, totally. It'll be fine. This is the theatrical version. What are the other two versions? I don't know. Apparently there's like a theatrical version and then like some other theatrical version that was like shown overseas or something. Okay. And then there's the director's cut and yeah some other weird cut. Because I'd seen something that ah Ridley Scott, like it did not do very well. Like the first time it was shown. Yeah. like test audience and like people were like not really vibing on it.
00:11:31
Speaker
And then that's when he. like was like slapped together a director's cut and then and like change some stuff but then we got the theatrical cut and yeah like okay here comes the director's cut forever later and stuff yeah and i've heard the director's cuts a lot better i watched both and yes like the difference between the two is stunning like literally like director's cut great movie theatrical version is like horrendous yeah i was
00:12:04
Speaker
I was very much like Ridley Scott, huh? Like, I was like, this is Ridley Scott, huh? That's, that's kind of crazy that this is Ridley Scott. I went and watched the director's cut because I read when I was like looking at when this fell in Tom Cruise's career that he absolutely hated the theatrical version. Yeah. And like refused to talk about the film for years. And was just like, you have to watch the
Detailed Plot Overview of 'Legend'
00:12:30
Speaker
director's cut. And i was like, well, that's awful. to be all right i'll yeah i'll go watch it and i'll have to watch it it paid off to watch it like good yeah i'll have to but don't they take out tangerine dream yes okay which actually makes it significantly better and that's and that's what what's hard to hear because that's my we'll jump forward a little bit in the conversation that's my one thing i really love like watching it on vhs and the tangerine dream like sat like scoring and soundtrack i was like
00:12:58
Speaker
I mean, this makes sense. Like, yeah, it's very square and it's like kind of fuzzy and stuff. And like this Tangerine dream, like 80s synthy kind of things going on. I was like, was like, the soundtrack is slapping. And I love Tangerine dream, yeah but it absolutely does not fit that. There was some some scoring that I was like, okay. Yeah. But like the first main one, like the first title one, like I was like, yeah, like, yeah, this is rocking.
00:13:24
Speaker
Yeah. There's some hits and misses with it, but that was my favorite part was the music, which is not good. if that was yet like, I mean, the theatrical version literally starts with like, like a chat GPT t essay about like the, the, here's your exposition. Yeah. And it's like jarring and there's weird eighties music. And then it shifts into like, and then it's a weird high fantasy. And then we're in hell. Yeah. Basically. And Tim Curry is like darkness. What is happening? It's just like green eyed and this weird little fucking goblin guy shows up. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a bit of a mess. We should, we should probably say what the general,
00:14:06
Speaker
plot of this thing is oh yeah oh yeah do you want to tackle that excuse me all right yes let's do a good quote bad quote first and then we'll do that just because i love a bad quote and the bad quote's very fun there was some there's a lot of pretty horrendous dialogue in this yeah it's pretty bad um okay so this uh good review quote this is Ed Gonzalez for slant magazine. He said, quote, legend is a Gothic fairy tale brought to life in quote, which is true, which is one of those things. That's like, it was one of the few like top critics, like, like actual paid critic ones on rotten tomatoes.
00:14:43
Speaker
Yeah. There's only a few of them. And I was like, going to use this one because it's not really like a positive. It's just kind of a fact yeah about the movie. It's not really like, yeah, maybe this movie rocks because of this. it just like gothic fairy tale brought to life. Checkmark. That's exactly what what this is. Is it good though? Is it bad though? like It was one of the positive reviews and i was like, that's funny as fuck.
00:15:09
Speaker
Now, the bad quote, I always find the dirtiest ones I can. good. This is a Gene Siskel from like Ebert and Siskel for the Chicago Tribune. and He said, ah quote, I don't want to remember any more about legend than to make sure I include it on my worst films of 1985 list and never rent it when it comes out as a videocassette. End quote. That's brutal. No.
00:15:34
Speaker
but The best ones, man, the backquotes are always the most fun. is like I think it was a Amelia, who was on forever ago, was like, I said a backquote for whatever movie we were doing, and and she was like, who hurt this person? yeah yeah like Did they just go through a horrible breakup before they watched this movie? like yeah It's awful. Don't put this on Ridley, Scott. This is nothing to do with this movie right now. You are like having some kind of like like insurance. issues like you have outside forces and you're bringing it to work yeah kind of just drop it ebert i love it i love it um so yeah so that's good and the bad that is good and uh one's more of a fact and one was a skeething like painful something's wrong with him kind of a thing yep uh which again are always the best ones um so yeah so why don't you take the lead on what the overall plot is okay honestly
00:16:30
Speaker
there was certain moments where I was like, where are we? Yes. Watching the theatrical cut only. I was like, how are we here? Who the fuck is that? Yeah. of I think the only reason I have a good grasp on it is from watching the director's cut. Yeah. I was, I was it like 20 minutes in. I was like, okay, okay. All right. Sure. Sure. And then like another 20 minutes, I was like,
00:16:55
Speaker
How are we here? It was so fast. It was frankly wild to watch the director's cut like two, three days later. And Sarah and I were both just like,
00:17:07
Speaker
Oh, that's how they got there. Like there was like connecting filament between scenes. Whereas in the like theatrical version, it's just like, I very much needed that. Because it was literally, we'll get to it. So, so it's, so. Okay. So, so dark darkness is about a young pure boy named Jack played by Tom Cruise.
00:17:32
Speaker
And he lives in the forest with the forest creatures. Kind of seems like he's like, it's like a Mowgli. Yeah. was going to say Mowgli sort of jungle, but it's kind of a thing. Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
Um, and then there's a princess, who we don't know what she's the princess of. Of around. Of of there. Of that area. The movie literally starts off with her coming into some peasant's place and eating their food. Eating their food. And then saying. While she's out there like working. Yeah, she drops the clothesline on her and then eats her food and then says like, oh, I can't stay. And then leaves to go see Jack in the woods. Wait, I gotta go see this bum in the woods. Yeah.
00:18:17
Speaker
She's much just like you like a daughter to me. And she's like, okay, okay, whatever. Also, uh, that's, uh, she's the, uh, the girlfriend in Ferris Bueller, right?
00:18:28
Speaker
oh Yeah, it has to be right. Yeah, and she's not right. She's not British, right? No, okay. because Neither of them were doing a good job keeping no accents going yeah They were trying at the beginning a little bit halfway through they just completely drop of yeah which I was like, okay guys just don't do it from It's like there's so little dialogue from Tom Cruise in the theatrical version which is crazy. that
Character Dynamics and Director's Cut Depth
00:18:52
Speaker
You have no connection to the Jack character at all.
00:18:56
Speaker
No, he's just some guy. Yeah. The other one, i actually, like, he has character development, for lack of a better word. It's wild. um Anyway, so the princess comes. She's in love with Jack, and they're in in the forest, and he takes her to see the unicorns who show up, majestic white horses with a horn with a piece of plastic. Yeah. tight to their head And she goes and she touches them, which a big no, no, but she's not told that beforehand.
00:19:35
Speaker
Seems like an oversight. Yeah. Seems like a huge oversight. ah Backing up before all this, Darkness, the Tim Curry character, has sent his little weird goblin Blix.
00:19:47
Speaker
Something like that. think it's Blix. could catch anybody's name except for Jack and Darkness, yeah to be honest. Yeah. It's confusing. That's how little dialogue there was yeah ah with like, okay, this is who this character is. yeah I think it's Blix.
00:20:02
Speaker
Anyway. Sounds right. So he he sends Blix to go get the unicorns from like their harvest their horns. Because they have to like kill them. To bring about darkness. Yeah. If there's, if there's still unicorns on the earth, then darkness can't prevail and light will still always be around because they're pure and, you know, unicorn mythology. Right. yeah and And the way to go, the best bait for a unicorn is in no sense.
00:20:31
Speaker
So... Sure. So these the these gobbling creatures use the princess as bait. How they know the princess is going to be there, we don't know. No idea. Anyway. They're just like, oh shit, cool. Yeah, so they kill good time one of the unicorns with a poison dart.
00:20:47
Speaker
They... cut the horn off, and then it becomes winter. And and instantly instant winter becomes winter. Instantly becomes winter. And the ah unicorn horn is now a magic wand that anybody can wield at any point. That Blix does weird... Blix can do all kinds of fuckery with it, and he does.
00:21:03
Speaker
And he does. Yeah, it's literally like a beautiful summer day, like not too hot, a little wind going, and then it's instantly blizzard. Yeah. Like in a second. Oh, no, but then Jack, because she's like, he's like...
00:21:16
Speaker
so for I don't know. if He like runs away. Right. After she touches, he's like, don't touch them. You shouldn't be touching them after she's already touching them. No pre warning. Yeah. Then he goes and like runs away all like teen angsty dramatically because she did that even though he didn't tell her to not do that. Yep.
00:21:36
Speaker
bear with us this is this movie this is the actual but i'm excited to hear more about the director's cut um and uh she meets up and then like oh this ring will be for whoever gets this ring i'll marry and stuff and then she like throws it over a ledge into some water and he immediately just yeets himself down into the water which sick move sick pretty slick pretty slick dude like you love her like that's pretty slick yeah like pretty cool and And winter comes while he's under there, so the ice is frozen. feel like the water's frozen over. It's literally like a five-second sequence, and it's just winter. And he's, like, going to punch his way out of the ice. so discombobulating. It's so discombobulating. Which, honestly, is, like, not bad. Because I was, like...
00:22:19
Speaker
whoa, what's going on here? Like, oh, he's like frozen under there. they're like, that's all right. That might be one of the best moments of the theatrical. There's actually a lot more meat on the director's cut connecting all that I can imagine. It's way less jarring. Yeah. It's more like, oh, okay. Yeah. It's like, oh, okay. This makes sense now. Yeah. I'm not like...
00:22:37
Speaker
The jarringness of it did kind of snap me back into it for a second. I was like, hold on. Like, okay, we're getting real, real quick. All right. yeah That's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Then, you know. And then it went where it went. So, so Jack gets left.
00:22:52
Speaker
She gets separated from him. Completely
Character Journeys and Mythical Quests
00:22:56
Speaker
separated. Instantaneously. Yeah. Instantly. And she instantly goes back to the peasant's house. Yeah. A lot of, uh, slow-mo screaming of her name and his name. Yes. Like a good two minutes And then she's at the house. The orc people come, mess some shit up. Yeah, all the peasant people are like frozen instantly to death. Yes. But they're not.
00:23:20
Speaker
Right. Even though they're inside of a house with a fire. Right. It's currently happening. Very strange. Doesn't make any sense. And then... Tom Cruise's character Jack gets like waylaid by these strange forest creatures. That weird little elf boy. Yeah. I did not like the little elf boy. He showed up and I was like, I am fucking done. I honestly paused it for a minute and was like, going to go to the bathroom. Can I do this? I can't. I was like, I may have to wing this one. I was like, there's a very shirtless young boy. he's like maybe 13. Being an 800-year-old elf, ostensibly. And they, I assume, don't know if they like morph his voice down or voice over it. There's some kind of a weird modular thing going on. It's very uncanny valley. Yeah, it's...
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah. Dude, not like whatever his name is. In the director's cut, they find out that he like allowed her to touch and they're like super angry. Okay. And he's like, oh, it's for love. Right.
00:24:24
Speaker
And they're like, uh... All right, answer me a riddle. And there's like ah a riddle battle that happens that Jack wins. And that's when they become friends and go on the adventure together.
00:24:36
Speaker
None of that is in the theatrical version. He's like yelling at him and he's like, it's for love. And he's like, okay. For love? Okay. Sick. Anyway, let's go save the day. Yeah. It's very discombobulating. Yeah. and So there's...
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. connecting how That's so cool. Like that's so, that's such good, like fantasy too. Yeah. That's good fantasy to have, like, like as a, he, Jack is an, is a human who just like lives amongst the trees.
00:25:01
Speaker
Uh, in D and D I would consider him a ranger, you know, like kind of a thing. And, um, and then you have the elf, uh, Yeah, just that's such a high fantasy. It's such a fantasy thing And it works. They cut it out. And it connects it, and it makes sense.
00:25:15
Speaker
So frustrating. Yeah. And then they have their like little elderberry wine drink out of the little teacups, and it's like charming. Yeah, none of that in the theatrical. Yeah. uh so now we're off on an adventure um and the princess is off on her adventure yeah she's on a way she's on a whole nother thing um so they go through dungeons they're trying to get they're trying to find the unicorn horn Yeah, they're trying to save, they want to get the unicorn horn back and then keep the other unicorn alive. Because that one goes down, they're cooked, they're toasted. It's done. It's just all over. Right. And they have one of the little gnome guys with the pan defending which I thought was hilarious. Yeah, was real good. When he's like, pop, pop, pop, pop. He gets shot in the brain pan. That was good bit. That's a good bit. That was all fantastic, and I loved that guy. And when he was dying, was like, dang, this kind of sucks. This is the most interesting character right now.
00:26:22
Speaker
So the goblin creatures come back. They take the princess and the other unicorn hostage and take them back to Darkness's palace. Which, okay, I have one question real quick. I probably can't answer it. Just kind of like a general question about like...
00:26:36
Speaker
general question about like plot and like continuity, continuity goals, um, you know, plot holes, uh, if you will. Um,
00:26:49
Speaker
So they killed the one unicorn on sight. Right. Is there anything in the director's cut about why they needed to capture the other unicorn and keep it alive?
00:27:00
Speaker
No. Instead of just immediately icing it and winning and now the movie's over and darkness has prevailed and we watched a very trippy, weird 30-minute movie? There's like a sacrifice that's happening. Okay, so it's got to be big and dramatic kind of thing? Yeah, and I think it actually has to be ritualized. I think... i think That and then also darkness does want the princess. He wants to yeah make her his bride. So I'll, I answered my own question, I guess, by thinking about it for a second, a little bit longer. Um, is maybe that like,
00:27:33
Speaker
It's maybe not stated, but it's like, well, if I just ice this unicorn, she'll never come to my side. I'll never be able to trick her into being my wife and stuff. So he's like, well, to play it cool. Right. And like give her a false sense of hope kind of a thing. Yeah. I'll take that. I just wish it had been kind of a little more. It's like slightly more clear in the director's cut, but I'm still going to go with it's still not. It's still, it's still, it's still little opaque. It's still a little, a little not there. Yeah. um but so let's see from there oh then jack gets his uh his fit and his sword with that weird little fucking fairy the weird fairy creature she's not like her either i think she is a fairy who from what i can tell is at war with the elves yeah they do not fuck with each other they hate each other in some way and he's like don't trust her don't talk to her right while talking to jack he's like
00:28:30
Speaker
It's like, don't fuck with her. Don't even talk to her. Don't do anything. Just get the shit, get the armor and the sword and let's bounce. Yeah. and And they have a conversation. she keeps he keeps her secret that she is a pixie or whatever the hell she is yeah and then that comes back later uh and then we're gonna skip a whole lot of things that happen they go through a swamp okay i will with the swamp thing though they go through the swamp he uses his sword on some weird like swamp witch kind of a thing i guess uh and then he immediately loses his sword and is never seen with it again
00:29:08
Speaker
until yes like until like maybe the end but like he in the director's cut i will say not caring that scene is pulled out way longer okay he's like he's like flirting with her to try to like not fight her he's telling her like how beautiful she is and like there's like a whole like a whole bit his character comes a lot more alive and then he basically like sneaks his sword out while he's doing that and then manages to kill her when she tries to kill him see I love that because, again, that's very D&D. It's like, okay, let's talk. Let's see if we can yeah persuasion roll our way out of this. And then when it doesn't go, then you attack. like That's cool. Instead of just immediately attacking. yeah And he's like, one, two, swipe. And he's like, I did it It's like, okay. Yeah. All right, Mary Sue. Yeah. No, it's it makes way more sense than the director's cut.
00:29:57
Speaker
um yeah I'm going to come out on record and say the director's cut is a good movie. Yeah. um the theatrical cut is not it is terrible i will happily be watching the director's cut sometime soon so i can say because i wanted to like this movie right i really wanted literally why we went and watched it ridley scott
Film's Climax and Thematic Elements
00:30:16
Speaker
ain't never missed i know ain't no way he misses on a fantasy movie yeah no fucking way we were just like so confused after we finished the theatrical version because i was just like I want to like this. Like I really do. And it's so close. Yeah.
00:30:32
Speaker
It just needs something. There's lot of scenes that like could be cool. Yeah. With some more context. Like I'm already enjoying the director's cut more. ah Yeah. Because after they get through the swamp, and they get into the castle, which you get, which again, apparently is just like right there.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah. It's just like right next to where they are in an old tree. Yeah. Yeah. the old that The old people used to come and sacrifice at the evil. I don't know. No context. Yeah. Which is part of what I did like about this film. and I like that it kind of drops you into the middle of this world.
00:31:03
Speaker
That doesn't explain shit. yeah Like and just you got to figure it out. Yeah. and like Accept things. There's a balance between holding my hand, you know, like like going in full like Harry Potter, like, okay, the main character doesn't know anything about the world, so everything has to be explained to him and therefore us.
00:31:20
Speaker
But then also it's like but getting dropped into the middle of a war zone without any context of who's... Who's a good guy? Who's a bad guy? What weapons do I even have? yeah Am I, so or am I supposed to run? Like there's a difference. There's a, there's a line yeah between the two of those.
00:31:35
Speaker
And, and the theatrical cut is a war zone. It's a war zone. It is a war zone. They drop you right in and say, good luck. And then they fly out. The wreck really stopped flying off on a helicopter. He's just gone. Just like, ya.
00:31:47
Speaker
ah But not his fault. he didn't He didn't want it to be this way. yeah I assume. It seems like. I saw something that he was like, I fucking hate this theatrical cut. Yeah. Like, we gotta to work some stuff. People hate it. I hate it. Let's fucking change it. It's brutal.
00:32:00
Speaker
Anyway, so...
00:32:04
Speaker
while they're breaking into the castle and divide trying to figure their thing out yeah the princess is getting seduced by darkness yeah and which that scene dude that scene is where dope that like like the shrouded woman like yeah starts dancing and then she starts dancing and then she becomes like it like in like the black that's an Awesome. It is way longer in the other cut and it is re phenomenal. Creepy. Yeah. The best kind of fantasy way.
00:32:36
Speaker
It's just like so like ethereal and just like. Yeah. i Like I was like get I was I was hooked back in for a second. I was like this is cool. Yes. This cool. And then he shows up and he like propositions her. Yeah. Like but what if you were on my side? he got You know Darth Vader to Luke kind of a thing. Yeah. Like what if you joined me kind of a thing.
00:32:55
Speaker
awesome scene and he is like such a compelling figure like everything he says makes sense it's logical yeah it like it's like seductive and like gentlemanly like it's so well done it's awesome that whole scene and like you're right like the herd dancing with like the shrouded shadow yeah then becoming dressed in this like incredible gown yeah like costume rat as well it's like it's like yeah that's exactly what his wife would be dressed like. Yeah. It's a perfect fit for that couple. Yeah. If she were to do it, like, it's just, I don't know. That scene is probably my favorite scene. By far. Because it's just, like, so creepy and weird in the middle of this, like, chaos of a fantasy story, theatrical-wise.
00:33:43
Speaker
um And I'm just, like, i was so impressed by that, honestly. I was like, okay, I was like, there's Ridley Scott. Yeah. There he is. Yeah, and the scene where she's, like, going through, like, the... pawns I don't know what they are, yeah but like these huge monoliths and she's being yeah tracked by the like very girl. Yeah, and stuff that was it's beautiful or super like trippy weird. Yeah, like what even are we right now? Like I loved all of that sequence like her getting to the place where she does the dance and stuff was like it was like almost like lynchie.
00:34:13
Speaker
Yeah. In a way, in a way that I was not expecting yeah this movie to do based on like the context of what I had already seen. The way she goes through that and then she comes in and like has the dance and then he comes through the mirror as she's like examining herself as like ah darkness. Yeah.
00:34:30
Speaker
and she's like and she's kind of like and she's kind of a vibe to it yeah yeah she's like maybe i'm goth yeah and it's like that's when he comes through yeah it's like right when she starts to question is this lit as fuck the answer is yes like and he's like it is yeah like and also let me tell you about some other things we got going on frankly the answer is darkness is daddy yeah like jack's just like a little twink boy over there little bitch boy yeah like go A fun little summer fling, but now it's time to Now it's time to settle down with darkness. Yeah, exactly. And I think she made the wrong choice, be honest. Yeah, Tim Curry over everything. Yeah, of course. Always.
00:35:09
Speaker
And then, so from there, she basically, he he like tempts her. She kind of realizes and and keeps denying him over and over and again. And then she wants to go- She tells him she wants to go kill the unicorn. Yeah. And he gets like super jazzed and horned up about that. He's like, I did it. and I did it. They go do that. Meanwhile, ah Jack and crew have been watching this happen.
00:35:37
Speaker
And they're convinced. Through that door they like can't get through. Yeah. And they're convinced that she's gone bad. And they go to collect a bunch of reflective surfaces. They have a fight with a bunch of like...
00:35:48
Speaker
or creatures in the scullery and then they get all these huge brass plate like serving platters and in like a two minute scene like pass them like frisbee them down it's like the funniest longest it's so long It goes on for so long. It's like, my God, cut it out and put some connecting tissue between other storylines. Is that in the director's gut? Yes. But slightly less.
00:36:20
Speaker
It's just a little shorter. Okay. every it Everything's wrong. it's wrong It's so weird. but The one moment where you want less, they give us more. Exactly. That's insane.
00:36:33
Speaker
Oh, my God. i blame I'm going to blame producers. Absolutely. I'm going to blame producers. They're like, nah, just get it out. We've got to make this money. People love dark fantasy. I don't know.
00:36:44
Speaker
so fell And then they, there's like a whole scene of them trying to sacrifice and a fight. And, um, eventually they shine light down into the, through this series of mirror yeah plates that they have. It's mirror puzzle thing that they end up doing. It blasts darkness with light, which he said is the one thing that can like destroy him. And then it cast him out into space and,
00:37:12
Speaker
through what is like an incredibly cool like dune yeah like apparatus but they don't really show it in the the other version like the the director's cut starts off with that with like that and you get to get a good look at it It's so frustrating. Anyway. I got to watch the director's cut. And there's something. I should have looked harder for it last night because I was trying to find it. Oh, i could have sent it to you. I should have. i i i wasn't that It was like kind of late and I was like, ah maybe I should. I was like looking and I was like, ah like whatever. It's kind of a thing.
00:37:46
Speaker
I think it's kind of good that you haven't because it shows how bad this movie is without it. Spoiler alert. Let little inside baseball for the whole podcast. spoiler alert or like let me let me a little inside baseball for the for the whole podcast ah Most of the time, I love the movies that I have to say are bad. sure This one was one of the rare few where I was like, this movie fucking sucks.
00:38:12
Speaker
like I genuinely fell asleep for five minutes during like the end of the movie. yeah like Somewhere in there. And woke up and was like... I just as con confused as if I woke up, I did not miss a thing.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like I felt like I was on a terrible trip. Yeah. Usually I go back and like, be like, well, hold on. Let me go back. And so this one, I was like, I like pause it. And I was like, uh, I was like, only got like maybe 10 minutes left. Like I didn't, I don't think I missed anything. Like, I don't think I missed a goddamn thing. No, no, you didn't. And that's like everything we've talked about. I'm like, yep. Yep. I remember that. I remember that. I'm like, so I didn't somehow. Yeah. yeah Because yeah, it's, it's wild. Yeah.
00:38:48
Speaker
um so good so good how bad it is i think the movie especially in its director's cut form is really good yeah and like the very the the like last half especially like with darkness and like the temptation and his like weird speech. Yeah. Like I wrote down what he said because i got a, I got to read this to you.
00:39:20
Speaker
Please do. Cause I, because I went down damn rabbit hole. yeah Hell yeah. You know, i have, I have it. Okay. So here's the quote. This is as darkness is about to sacrifice this unicorn or allow her to sacrifice the unicorn. Right. It's like his preamble.
00:39:41
Speaker
He says, in the beginning, there was nothing, a void of darkness, a cold eternity of silence. And when the perfect void was corrupted by light, a great wailing was heard and all the brethren fled in terror that's amazing right that's incredible it's so good that's incredible it's so good that i was like oh good ridley scott did not write that like i write that like i have heard that and i went down a rabbit hole yeah because i was like like that is gnostic yeah it has to be yeah it has to be somewhere in the nagamati oh yeah so i
00:40:21
Speaker
Went over to my shelf and I pulled down the dang old Nagamati library that I keep there because I'm a normal person. Can't find it. Although there is an immense amount, like the the mythology behind it is very similar. yeah There was a void and then Sophia was created and like yada, yada, yada. But it's like that or like maybe some Orphic mystery school. Like it sounds a lot like like some sort of Grecian my mystic mystery school. Yeah. cool um
00:40:51
Speaker
But like the whole concept the that darkness is the original state. Yeah. And that it yeah that light is the thing that comes in and creates life, but destroys like the piece of the universe.
Philosophical Themes and Narrative Layers
00:41:07
Speaker
And like in the theatrical version, you know, as he's getting like thrown out the window, you know, he has this whole speech about like, you can't kill me. Like I am inside you. Like I am darkness. Darkness lives in you. You cannot kill me.
00:41:25
Speaker
And then they toss them off into space and everything goes back to like normal. yeah And then at the very end, his face comes back over Jack's at the very end. but Not in the director's cut.
00:41:36
Speaker
In the director's cut, it just has a happy ending. Yeah. As he like goes off into the sunset. But like the, that whole idea. yeah And then if you really do kill darkness,
00:41:48
Speaker
then like now you're just an eternal light that's not a vibe that's not a vibe so it's like all about balance yeah balance yeah exactly and he's the only one advocating for balance in the whole film yeah that's what he wants is balance yeah he's not wrong yeah he's not wrong at all and it's like really fascinating that like the only rational being in this entire series is like darkness. Yeah. Rainbows and sunshine and lollipops everywhere. Right. Not, yeah, not good. And he's, that's not how they, and he's like praying to his father. Yeah.
00:42:22
Speaker
Which, Who is the father of darkness? Who? Like, never explained. No. So confusing. Needs so much more context, yeah. And it's like, oh I just want a whole film that's, like, really exploring that. Yeah, where's the Simmerillion for, like, this mythos, like, that's, like...
00:42:41
Speaker
Once you get the director's cut, you actually care about it. Right. And who is the like, ah like the innocence is the thing that kills him. Yeah. Like is, is the weakness or the like strength of the unicorns. And it's like the whole time they're setting you up to think that Jack is the innocence, but he's kind of just an idiot. He's an idiot. He's like goof.
00:43:01
Speaker
Yeah. The innocence in so much as it's there is the princess. Yeah. Who's kind of cruel. Yeah. She's kind of a bitch. Yeah. And like, ultimately when push comes to shove, she chooses to do good yeah instead of her nature, which is bad, which is obviously not great. Right. Cause you, and yeah. With all the shit with the peasant woman and stuff. Yeah.
00:43:26
Speaker
god like you're just gonna eat your fucking food you got piles of food back at the castle yeah just gonna munch up her heart her bread she made from scratch herself yeah like and it's like i don't know i just there is something there that like especially in the director's cut it's like oh there's something here something to like really chew on yeah because for me like with the theatrical cut i got it like it's it's so obvious but like an immediate like okay, this is like a biblical story. Like it's like, mean, yeah. Fucking darkness. Look, his horns are huge. He's, and he's red and he's hooked.
00:44:01
Speaker
So he's like, obviously it's like the devil and like all that stuff. And then like, and then um And then Jack is Adam and then she's Eve and stuff because she's the one who touches the forbidden apple. all she add up And then she's the one that's like kind of tempted by the devil and stuff. And he's like all good the whole time. Right. He literally is like like wearing fucking shrubs as clothes and stuff. Right.
00:44:28
Speaker
And so she's the one that, and so she causes the garden of Eden to right be dismantled and everything. And like, and that's all you really get from the theatrical cut. And so for me, I was kind of like, okay, like, like, yeah hey heard this story before. It's when people redo Romeo and Juliet, like a million times over, I'm like, yeah I don't fucking care. Do another Shakespeare play. Yeah. Like do any other Shakespeare play.
00:44:50
Speaker
Like there's other poets and other plays. Or maybe just don't do any more Shakespeare. We've been there, done that. There's a lot. Like I get why we keep redoing it, but like what if we didn't? Like, you know, kind of thing.
00:45:01
Speaker
So it's like, that's kind of how I felt like on like the like deeper level of this movie, like besides like just how God awful it is on top, the theatrical version. Like I was like, I was just like, I like caught on to that early. And so was like watching it like with that, like kind of like through line and stuff. And I was just like, ah, like that's how I was the whole time. But the director's cut. we're getting to like narcissism and some like secret school kind of like weird shit like that. Like, okay. Yeah. And it's only during his speech where that starts to come out. Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker
But then you like retroactively kind of look back and you're like, Yeah, it was literally just like, what? Like, what the fuck? What was that? He said, he said, he said, what? He said, when the light penetrated the darkness, all my brethren ran fleeing. Like, what does that mean? Yeah, there was a whale. Like, oh my God. Like, that's amazing. like such good writing. awesome.
00:45:55
Speaker
And like, Tim Curry is incredible. Of course. Yeah. I absolutely have to watch the director's cut just to see him. Yeah, there's more. that line. Yeah. Oh my And it's like, I can't remember if that's even in the theatrical version. don't think don't think it is. I think they're just like... At least not to that extent. Yeah. Because I feel like would remembered that. There's a whole ritual scene that happens. definitely don't think the Dune-esque sculpture is shown as much you described. I don't think it is at all. If it is, it's very brief because I'm like...
00:46:28
Speaker
Because fucking love Dune. Yeah. like Like book and David Lynch and the new ones. like Yeah. Top to bottom. Like Dune. Yeah. And it's like i was very like that Lynchian of just like it's just that shot of that like tea small T-shaped structure.
00:46:43
Speaker
Don't think that was yeah that was in that. It's wild. That's insane. Yeah. That's. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. I don't fucking know, man. Yeah, that the theatrical cut was such a letdown. Because i know people love this movie.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yeah. People like genuinely do. like Obviously, I get why like the critic score is like negative, especially like the ones that are from the time it came out. yeah All they had was the theatrical one. And it is just the hos podge random bullshit, like yeah honestly. like And there's not a lot of through line and stuff other than, like, here are the good guys, here are the bad guys. Here's what the good guys need to do. Here's what the bad guy wants to do.
Soundtrack and Production Choices
00:47:18
Speaker
Okay, go. like there's no There is no character development. I didn't give a shit if Jack Lever died. I didn't give a shit. only i only The only character I cared about, ah besides Potpan guy, when I thought he was going to die, he was fucking... His name is Wyle. I looked it up. I forget what it is. It's like...
00:47:35
Speaker
honey crumble something it's like very gnomish name in the best fucking way which is another reason why i was like this guy rocks yeah like if he dies i'm fucking done uh that was i genuinely cracked me up i was like that's fucking amazing that was a great bit because i was like i was like why is he still talking like he got shot in the fucking head like what's going on here yeah that shit was funny as fuck um there's no doubt about that um but yeah i just like i didn't give the only character i cared about was the princess once the uh like the uh dance sequence happened then i was like oh my god something interesting is about to happen she may actually flip was like she might actually flip because like how could you not like the how could you get hot man like really quick that whole scene is just so fucking beautiful yeah and stuff and then like
00:48:25
Speaker
Like the pixie girl hated her. a Little elf boy so could not could not wait for him to go. away So much more charming in the director's cut. Like, of course he is. Yeah, it's like, and of course, and there's less.
00:48:40
Speaker
The modulation is less. I get the modulation on his voice. Just like it. Like I was like, but he first showed up and I was like, OK, like maybe he won't be here the entire time. He is.
00:48:50
Speaker
yeah And i was like, that's fine. And then he talked, and I was like, no that was immediately like, nope, nope, nope, nope. I don't feel good about 12-year-old half-naked boy with this deep, weird voice. weird, modular, like, err, err, kind of voice. I was literally like...
00:49:07
Speaker
I did not hear the first ah two sentences he said because I was just like, nope, nope. yeah I'm just going rewire my brain to like i like, okay, so now they're okay. And like, okay, and now they're teaming up. Great, great, great, great. I will say even the theatrical version, fastest Howard F. I've ever Oh, for sure. It was a breeze. Yeah. Well, it's hard not to when you don't know what the fuck is going on and you can't get invested. You know?
00:49:34
Speaker
Huh. Yeah. When you're having to like really strain to be like, what is happening? Yeah. and like lu because like I kind of like let my brain become Teflon during it and was just like, it'll all coast by. Yeah. And eventually it'll mean something. it we'll get We'll get there. Eventually. And then I finish it was like...
00:49:52
Speaker
Where am I? I don't think that meant anything. Where am I? What time is it? Yeah, exactly. i was like, oh, okay. I think if I'd seen that when I was like eight. Oh, it'd be treasure. you don't need the like you don't need the connecting tissue. you do Exactly. It's fine if it jumps. And I feel like that's possible.
00:50:10
Speaker
part of it is like ridley scott he doesn't make children's movies no and i feel like the producers were like because it's only pg yeah which i mean there was this might have been right before the pg-13 thing still there's like nothing in it there's nothing even that would make it 13 yeah you know so like even if it was pg-13 was a thing at that time it wouldn't matter to still would have been PG. So I feel like the producer, and I mean, based on what you've said, like the director's cut, it doesn't sound like there's a lot of PG-13 even in that either. All it is is just... It's just but more context and like lore and like plot. Literally, yeah. I feel like the producers were like, oh, cut out all this boring shit. We just want but we just want yeah fun fantasy and stuff. that Who gives a shit if it has a through line and stuff? And you're like, like you want to look...
00:50:57
Speaker
at Ridley Scott in the face and say, who gives a shit about plot yeah and through line and stuff. You mean the man who wrote alien, an allegory for a grape, an allegory for grape and how it can affect men and women in the seventies and how it made that idea of SA scary to men and women, because that's what that movie is about.
00:51:20
Speaker
You want to tell him cut out all the quote unquote context and bullshit. Which is like... Go fuck yourself. I mean... It has to be a producer that ruined this movie. It has to be. It has to be. Because... Money, money, money. People aren't going to sit in a movie theater. There's no way people in the future are going to sit in a movie theater for three hours. Because they want context. There's no way they're going to want part one, part two to tell one story one day.
00:51:45
Speaker
Fuck that. yeah They can read a book if they want that. God damn. him I would love to read this thing as If this was a fucking 500 page novel it would be with like Ridley Scott, like like like yeah like get the original screenwriter and Ridley Scott kind of there to like help with some stuff and everything, this would be an amazing fantasy. like One off, just one, yeah but you can add like can i whole chapters or context like, who the fuck is Darkness's father? I need to know. It's just like, it has such good bones. it has such good bones yeah like and the director's cut at the end of the day it's like that's a it's a good movie yeah like is it a great movie no no it's a very solid dark fantasy film if someone said dark uh director's cut legend is one of my favorite dark fantasy movies you'd be like bet yes absolutely and you'd be thrilled to talk to them about how rad it actually is yeah
00:52:38
Speaker
Theatrical cut. Someone was like, no, I like the theatrical cut. i I'm done talking to you. yeah Don't ever contact me again. like Please delete my number. yeah way would i know we already talked about Tangerine Dream, but now's a great time to go back to how weird of a choice it is. Okay. Yes. Because ah again, the one of the only things that kept me going through was to get to the incredible scene uh with her dancing like the shadow dance let's come yeah i'll call it i think that's right was it's very young in yeah it's very yeah drooling at the mouth like oh my god this is amazing this so fucking cool contextually conceptually this is amazing like and then pops out god so good yeah um
00:53:19
Speaker
gossip worth it just for that just for that just for that scene i am not mad about what without that scene fuck this man yeah i will i will happily state um but yeah like that's tangerine dream like because again watching it being a fucking pretentious fuck and watching it on vhs and like having tangerine dream i was like this is such a vibe when it started yeah and then like 30 minutes later i was like what the fuck am i watching but the soundtrack would come in like they'd be running or doing stuff and it's like Like strike up like a fight. And I was like, okay, okay. It's a vibe.
00:53:50
Speaker
Please elaborate how the score is different. Oh, it's like, but because it' it's like gone completely gone Completely different. it's all like, like Danny Elfman style, like, Oh, come on. Okay. like Danny Elfman's. Yeah. That's a better option than Tangerine dream or Howard Shore or whoever, but it's like, it's still like that kind of like that sound like yeah it wasn't Danny Elfman, but like it's a Danny Elfman S kind of a vibe. Like, all right. Yeah. It fits.
00:54:17
Speaker
It just fits. It's annoying how much better it fits yeah because it no point are you taken out from this weird world. Like, uh, which I found that Tangerine Dream just took me out of the world consistently. Like, yeah, it puts you in the eighties.
00:54:35
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Which was, which is a vibe, you know, like that's a vibe for sure. And I
Critique of Theatrical Cut vs. Director's Cut
00:54:40
Speaker
love that. But, yeah I don't know. I, I, yeah. As soon as you said, yeah, it's like Danny Elfman. I was like, fuck. Like that's, that's gotta be way better. So much better. So much better for the, with all the other context of the director's cut and how much better it is with like, there's more through line and more like that yeah beautiful speech from darkness and everything. Uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's the right choice. It really is. That sucks so much. If you ever make a fantasy film,
00:55:09
Speaker
Do not use so use the synth music of your time. Just stick with the tried and true. I'm going to give you the i'm gonna give the the only exception ah just because it's more horror, I guess, but like the Stranger Things synth, that's a vibe and that works because it's nostalgic because we're back in the 80s and we're in our time. Because whole thing it is nostalgia part. Exactly. And it works and I love it and I can't wait for the final season. Thank God they're doing the flat they're only doing one more season. Let's end it we need to stop while we're ahead for sure but like that makes sense for sure but like i like if i was gonna make
00:55:50
Speaker
a movie set, even if I was, like, I don't know, like, even if I was gonna make a movie set in the 80s, like, I would probably still have, like, a light synth score. light touch. Like, it wouldn't be, like, have a little bit of synthy stuff, like, in context. Yeah. Like, and stuff, but, like, as far as the score goes, maybe not so much. Yeah. Maybe not so much. Yeah. Like, that it can be a little, a little much, you know?
00:56:13
Speaker
i gotta, I gotta talk about my least favorite line in this whole movie. Please, I cannot. There's so many. There's so many. Are you just going to recite the entire theatrical cut to me? Word for word for word. There's word for word. There's no words in there. Exactly. It wouldn't take long.
00:56:31
Speaker
It's the scene where they're like in the dungeon that they've slid down into. When they're both trapped and then there's the other dwarf elf person. Yeah, the other gnome guy who had switched sides and stuff. Can we get some more? So there's people who are defecting? Can we get a little bit of side plot about, oh, there's a defection from the gnomes? And there's a little bit in the direction, but still incredibly strange. Again, that's so fantasy. People are picking sides in this great But he goes like, we're all barbecue.
00:57:06
Speaker
And the other guy goes, barbecue? and he goes, barbecue! And i was like... oh I distinctly unfortunately remember that. Maybe mutton? like yeah It's a terrible line anyway. but like Even if you said mutton. Barbecue doesn't exist in this world. Don't take me out. like like they like They are doing that They're doing what would be considered barbecue with how they're cooking food sometimes. Yeah. But that word does not exist yeah in this context. It shouldn't exist in this It's just so heavy. It's such an anachronism. It's so strange. and i thought i That's my least favorite thing in...
00:57:44
Speaker
historical movies um whether it's fantasy or not is um when uh like like django unchained is a great example yeah i love that movie i think it's very good think it's one of tarantino's best but the modern music with the modern soundtrack there's like a rick ross song in there yeah and stuff like i hate that yeah like i hate when that happens uh and like this one i forgave a little bit because i'm like it's a good It sounds good. yeah it's a kids movie. It's a fucking kids movie, apparently. Yeah, like the theatrical cut.
00:58:15
Speaker
But like saying barbecue yeah is inexcusable. Yeah, it makess it's inexcusable. It literally is. like There is no fucking... reason for that like that's like with uh sinners uh have you seen sinners i have not yet you gotta watch it's on my list to like i go see in theaters i already i have a whole review episode i can't get into it right now i can't get into it i saw i was like incredible i was like i'm gonna save this for when i watch it i was very scared
00:58:46
Speaker
that it was maybe going to have like modern music because like, yeah, Hayley will, Hayley Williams, love Hayley Williams, but not Hayley Steinfeld yeah makes music. And like, I saw that she had a song like from the soundtrack and I was like, ah like before I went to, Oh, going to have like modern music stuff.
00:59:04
Speaker
Lutwig does a whole score and then they did a companion thing next to it which people don't do a lot anymore and I was like yeah that's how you do that yeah that's how you do that she wrote a song with themes from sinners to be a companion soundtrack but the movie is just straight up Mississippi Delta Blues that the entire should be as it should be give me my Helen Wolfe give me my Robert Johnson good lord let's go and I was like let's go so and Clark still is like I went to Clark still a year ago nice ah My buddy Luke played music and there's a new bar there called Slime.
00:59:39
Speaker
And it's run by this guy. Oh, yeah. He's like, i don't know, like my age. He's like a blues artist. He plays all over the country. But like he's from Miami and just moved to Clarksdale because he loves the blues and opened up this weird music venue. That's also toy museum in the back.
00:59:58
Speaker
It's all of his collection of toy music, like toys. yeah And he designs slime inspired... Strange children's toys. That's fun. They're also sold there and it's just like fucking awesome in the middle of Clarksdale Yeah, I now have a reason to go visit carel is well worth visiting sounds like yeah, it's ah Amazing meeting don't go for more than like two days, but sure Yeah, it's like yeah you can be in and out but yeah yeah but do stop by Yeah, but yeah but yeah make make sure you go.
01:00:32
Speaker
um Yeah, I definitely have to go that place. That sounds fucking amazing. Yeah. um But all that's to say, like, I i hate anachronisms and ah music it's usually music that people do in movies and stuff, but I can forgive that.
01:00:46
Speaker
Barbecue. Yeah. I cannot forgive. yeah I cannot forgive that. yeah That's in the director's cut too, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah, it has to be. has to be. It's just very strange. It's so strange. I hate i yeah hate that shit. I genuinely hate that shit where it's like...
01:01:01
Speaker
Like, or somebody says, like, some modern turn of phrase. I feel like there was another modern turn phrase. There's a couple. That I heard in this that I was like, huh? And I assume it's just for, like, the kid laugh.
01:01:12
Speaker
Exactly. it's just for It's just for the bit. Yeah. like it's like that's I'm all for a bit. but Yeah. Make it make sense. like It's got to be a good bit. Right. And it's like, you can't have darkness giving this crazy weird...
01:01:25
Speaker
Orphic prophecy of whatever. And then also be talking about barbecue. Yeah. Yeah. Like you can't, you can't do it. i don't know.
01:01:37
Speaker
don't fucking know. I, I gotta watch the director's cut. I should have watched the director's cut before we did this. but Because you need you need the thing to be redeemed.
01:01:49
Speaker
Yes. like I want it to be redeemed. Again, I finished it and I took a deep like breath and sigh and was like, oh god i wish i had liked that more yeah like i genuinely wanted to like it you've got to watch the director's alien yeah alien franchise is one of my favorite alien is probably my favorite movie of all time we just got uh so you know the the uh robot the litter robot we just got for uh poe um it was like name it and i named it the nos pupo instead of the nostromo
01:02:20
Speaker
That's how much I love Alien and Ridley Scott. So I wanted to love this movie. Yeah. I like everything he does great. Gladiator is great. Gladiator 2. I haven't seen it. I heard it was kind of mid, but like everyone's great. Like it's fine.
01:02:34
Speaker
I'm disappointed. I think you will find a lot of redemption in watching the director's cut. It made me feel way better. That's good. Like Sarah and I finished it. were both like, okay that was a good movie like i feel so much better and it was like i had to wait like three days before i was like i'm gonna go through this again yeah yeah oh yeah sarah the next day was like can we watch the director's cut like i need i need like yeah did i need something well that's honestly that's probably why because i watched a legend i watched the theatrical i watched it monday night yeah and so it then was last night just a couple days and i was like
01:03:10
Speaker
I don't think I'm gonna look for it too hard. Like if I can find it, like, like i I was like, nah, it's okay. I'm gonna watch eyes of horror. This weird, this, uh, this weird folk horror movie instead, yeah which is amazing. and Like it was a great folk horror movie, but like, yeah, I'm gonna watch something completely. would say go watch it tonight, but you should really just watch the fall. It's great.
01:03:30
Speaker
I will watch The Fall. Yeah. I will watch. I do really want watch that now. Yeah, that sounds fucking bonkers. Yeah, in the best way. It sounds like like... I'm not even going to say it's a great movie. Yeah.
01:03:42
Speaker
Like, plot-wise, yada yada. It is like visual candy. It is
Final Thoughts and Recommendations
01:03:48
Speaker
incredible. So it's going to be, to put it to this movie, ah the the Lynchian scene where the pixie girl is chasing the princess and stuff. It's kind like...
01:03:57
Speaker
like that kind of like, Oh, what are we doing here? kind of like Yeah. Uh, did you ever see that documentary? I think it's called Baruku. Baruku. think that's right. It's like, uh, it's just all around the world. It's like all these rituals and things. It's a, it's beautiful.
01:04:14
Speaker
There's like a whole series where they're like in, don't want to say it's like, polynesia somewhere they're having this like crazy like ritual that they're filming those guys are in this film like they win and film like so it's like actual it's like ritual yeah it's like half like yeah documentary almost yeah basically beautiful temples in you know iran or india or whatever it's like i'm gonna need to need to check that shit out that will be a palette i'll watch that then i'll watch the the director's cut yeah and be like, okay, now I need something a little more normal. And you really should watch the director's cut. It will make you feel so much better about Ridley Scott.
01:04:52
Speaker
i Yeah, because i i'm I'm pretty down and out on him right now, i' to be honest. I'm like, man, like people talk shit about Prometheus, and I'm like, I love Prometheus, bro. Prometheus is a good like comeback to the yeah yeah to the fucking series, bro.
01:05:06
Speaker
um It'll be fine. I'll be fine. um i I guess I can't say to... I can't say to the director's cut, but the theatrical is a bad movie and I will not change my opinion. i will. I will second you on that. Perfect. It's perfect terrible.
01:05:24
Speaker
It's just terrible. um Yeah, that's good. ah Director's cut. It literally just hearing you talk about it. I know it's a better movie. Yeah. Like that speech from darkness, they cut out the one thing they should have cut out from the theatrical with but the fucking plates and shit. It's still way longer than it should be. yeah it's not it's you know It's two minutes versus five yeah yeah like that's That's a significant amount. What the fuck?
01:05:52
Speaker
What is happening? Why is this going on for so long? oh my god Of all the things to drag out. all the things to drag out. Again, I could watch that, that, uh, the shadow dance scene for, yeah, let that go by ten minutes go for 10 minutes. yeah That was amazing. That's like better than any Kanye West music video from my dark twisted fantasy. That's what he was trying to do. yeah Like, and they, like you did it and you shortened it for the theatrical cut.
01:06:17
Speaker
What are we doing? Yeah. Insane. I fucking hate producers. That is the the true moral of this story. They chop creativity down to its barest bones. I think we need to find the name of whoever did this and go like,
01:06:32
Speaker
you know knock on their door and yell at them. Yeah. yeah yeah They're probably like 80 now. yeah Exactly. Very old, innocent person. like Just not doing it. By oxygen tanks. Like, hey, this is because there you messed up legend in 1985. It's like in Big Lebowski's The Last Person on the Iron Lung.
01:06:59
Speaker
ah I love your work, sir. god now there's a good movie theatrical no need for a director yeah just one and done baby one time just do it right the first time please not hard it's not hard it sounds like they had it in the bag and then they just didn't yeah it's just so disappointing to be honest um you're gonna love it i can't wait um i'm gonna watch the fall and the director's cut uh in that order probably um um I don't think I have much else to say about this ah shitty theatrical cut. either I don't either. need to know more. I need to know the director's cut. I think you should just enjoy You'll enjoy it. I will.
01:07:38
Speaker
I know I will. I know will. um Because it's just there's so much more context. like Everything is there. Everything's there that you would need. it's still slightly confusing, but in it's fine. But a way, but like at least there's a little bit more. And I'll take that. A full 30 minutes more.
01:07:53
Speaker
See, that's lot. It's what it needed. That's what it needed. what it needed yeah exactly that's amazing um fantastic
Exclusive Koozies and Humor
01:08:02
Speaker
uh all right i reckon that's it y'all um follow on all the bullshit and stuff um and uh catch you next time youtube youtube tiktok because apparently that's not going away now uh bad movie debate uh these koozies are not for sale I get one because I showed up. If you show up, Michael, Michael, you know who you are. You want one, you got to come down and be on again in person. Yeah, and hey, respond to that group message about the thing we're going to do in December, Michael.
01:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, what the hell, bro? Come on, dude. Fucking Michael. You know he's not listening to this. He ain't.