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BatmAnimation
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Special guests Reid Murphy and Emily Cissell join Zuhair and J Scotty as the discuss some of their favorite animated entries in the Caped Crusader's long legacy in preparation for Matt Reeve's The Batman releasing in theaters this week!
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Transcript
Advertisements and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
For female sexual dysfunction, male erectile dysfunction, and more aesthetic procedures for men and women, call downtown's. Call downtown's healthcare at 303-292-9992. That's 303-292-9992. Welcome to downtown's healthcare.
00:00:16
Speaker
On another exciting episode of Animation Deliberation, we're putting down the ODM gear so that we can test out a new utility belt on grappling hooks. We've gathered the roundtable of Gotham to discuss all things Batman animation in anticipation for Matt Reeves to Batman hitting theaters this week. Right after these ads, we have no control over.
00:00:33
Speaker
For female sexual dysfunction, male erectile dysfunction, and more aesthetic procedures for men and women, call downtowns. Call downtown's healthcare at 303-292-9992. That's 303-292-9992. Welcome to downtown's healthcare.
Batman Roundtable Discussion Begins
00:01:07
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. We got so into actually, like we remembered the lyrics at the last second and actually started singing along and we were too nervous to actually do it. Social anxiety.
00:01:36
Speaker
I mean the the lyrics are starting to resonate and that's what we're going for. This is Animation Deliberation, the podcast where we take action animation seriously, but not too seriously. I'm wondering for host Zuhara Lee. And we got the roundtable of Gotham joining us today to talk about all things Batmanimation. First off, co-host J. Scottie Sinclair, how are you? Doing fantastic, ready to talk some Batman, Batman, Batmanimation, it's tough to say, Batmanimation.
00:02:04
Speaker
Still soul that I just love how I love how it sounds, even if it doesn't roll off the tongue. I'll get it down eventually. Next up, we have the host of the 323 with Reed Murphy, Mr. Reed Murphy himself. How are you? Hello, I'm doing good. How are you all doing? Going pretty great. Glad to have you all. Yes, thanks for having us.
00:02:24
Speaker
And last off, one of the coolest teachers you will ever see in the classroom is Emily Sissel. Yeah, you got it right. When you guys were doing all that reading of the the feedback, I don't think I've ever laughed so hard about how confident Zoo was in correcting my name and be said it incorrectly.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah, it was indeed said correctly the first time. Yeah, as I recall, it was Andrew Rogers that got the pronunciation right the first time. And then Andrew corrected him with the mispronunciation. So it's worth mentioning that Andrew is not with us today. We didn't come up with an excuse for his absence, but I'm going to say he was sent undercover by Commissioner Gordon. Nice. Yeah. He said Robin training school. Yeah. He's about to be the 50 millionth Robin.
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah. Give or take. I won't call him the boy one dates, but. He's trying to put his engineer skills to use. Maybe he's more of like a Lucius Fox. There we go. Yeah. I think you would appreciate that. That seems to work.
00:03:33
Speaker
As we mentioned on the last episode, Andrew was on Sourcepage as a reading collective to talk about the Long Halloween and a couple other Batman origin comics.
Anticipation for Matt Reeves' Batman
00:03:44
Speaker
So if there is more that you want to listen to, please go check them out hosted by BBK and Haley Hobbs anywhere you find your podcasts. But we are talking all things Batman animated. We all have a history of just watching shows and
00:03:59
Speaker
series and movies and shorts and there's there's no shortage of Batman content and With the movie coming out this week, we're just reliving it all like are you guys looking forward to this movie? Even though it's like the 80th million one out Looks so good. I've been I've been anticipating this one for years since it was announced that Matt Reeves was gonna be directing I figured he was like a perfect directorial choice for this and
00:04:25
Speaker
And so far everything that we've seen, it looks like it's meeting all expectations and probably more. Yeah.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah. I echo those sentiments. Matt Reeves is an excellent director. I love Cloverfield. I love his two entries on the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy. And then the cast is completely star studded. Robert Pattinson is actually my first choice for Batman. So I was super pleased to hear that he was cast. And then Paul Dano, who's going to be our Riddler, is definitely one of my favorite actors out there. He has a really
00:05:00
Speaker
talent, a really great talent for portraying very unlikable characters. So I'm interested to see how he brings the Riddler to life. The fact that they're using the Riddler, who is my like all time favorite villain for DC, I just think he's so cool. Just in the comics in the animated series, just like somebody that just like
00:05:21
Speaker
is super intelligent, hyper intelligent and just tells riddles to people. I think it's a hilarious way to make a villain.
DC's Animation Freedom vs. Live Action Constraints
00:05:28
Speaker
They just don't utilize the Riddler ever enough, especially in live action, getting him live action like this makes me so stoked.
00:05:37
Speaker
Yeah, he did a really great job in the in the Batman animated series. And one of the things that I love about a lot of DC animated content is that they kind of let DC I mean, the DC just lets the creators do whatever they want. They're just like, we have another animated movie idea. It's like, cool. You don't have to explain anything to us. Go have fun with it.
00:05:56
Speaker
And that's something that the live action has failed to do. They're under the studio's thumb. Everything has to be perfect. They fail at it a lot of times. You know, they have the good moments in this and that. But DC live action has been suffering quite a bit. And as soon as I saw the Batmobile and the tactical boots and the Riddler's like new look, which I don't think we've ever seen before, I think that was that was enough convincing for me that the studio was finally like, you know what?
00:06:26
Speaker
do whatever you want, have fun with it. Yeah, it looks incredible. Ever since we got that teaser trailer where Battinson revealed himself and just said, I'm vengeance. I've been sold since then. The vampires finally become the bat. Could there be anybody more perfect for that with the last name Battinson? He had Batfleck, but Battinson is perfect.
00:06:51
Speaker
Alright, any other points that you guys or any thoughts or predictions or anything you're looking forward to in particular about this film before we get into the animated stuff? Potential of druid coming in and being a villain. There's all those rumors about the guy that played druid, Barry. Keegan. Yeah. Potential that he'll be the Joker. Ooh. Pretty exciting.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, there's been some rumors about that which makes me stoked because he's a very very talented actor and he's a young actor so he can have some chops in the DC like he could go a long time. Yeah, I'm not sure I've ever seen him in anything else, but he killed it in his performance of eternal so that in whatever capacity he shows up in the Batman I'm sure it'd be down for it.
00:07:37
Speaker
He's got a small but memorable role in Dunkirk and then the one I would recommend to anybody that's a fan of Barry Keegan at all. Check out the killing of a sacred deer. It's him and Colin Farrell and his performance is absolutely riveting and makes me super excited for the future of his career. He's great. He could have some chemistry already because don't we have a Colin Farrell as
Detective Noir in New Batman Film
00:07:59
Speaker
the penguin? That's right. That's right. Oh, there you go.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, I guess the last thing I'll say is I'm just excited to see how this film really embraces like the noir and detective angle. And I think in a lot of these animated counterparts that will bring up, that's one of the through lines of Batman. Christopher Nolan's trilogy kind of delved into that area a little bit, but never enough for me. So I'm excited to see this one really embrace that detective quality. Yeah, Nolan's stuff was definitely
00:08:32
Speaker
In hindsight, there was more fascination with the villains than there ever was with Batman himself. Sure. And the situations he was kind of put in. So it'll be nice to have the Dark Knight as kind of like the primary thing. But Andy Serkis definitely is going to be catching my eye quite a bit. If we get more of like the marine badass Alfred, that would be incredible. Andy Serkis doing all of that. Yeah, I don't think I'm ready for it. Yeah.
00:09:02
Speaker
Alright, so before we talk about the animated stuff, Reed and Emily, is there anything that you would like to plug right on the top?
Guest Plugs and Personal Projects
00:09:12
Speaker
I mean, just the 323 with Reed Murphy available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts.
00:09:19
Speaker
all of the streaming platforms, really, and our YouTube page, the 323 Network, where you can also catch up on Emily's podcast. Yeah. Emily Sissel asked, what if, where I take the concept of what if, but with sports moments in history and how they impact society as a whole, yada, yada, yada. But I also speak at a lot of conventions.
00:09:41
Speaker
various comic cons and anime cons and stuff like that about my use of comics in the classroom. So like you see that anywhere. My next one will probably be at Awesome Con in Washington DC. I might get Oticon next and stuff like that. But I am also applying for New York Comic Con. So if I get acceptance, you'll see me on the real big international stage.
00:10:04
Speaker
or has I've only been national stage so far? Everything she does is much more poignant and produced than the 3-2-3. The 3-2-3 is fun, but you get a lot of- This is true, yeah. You get where the poignant stuff on What If, then you go to the 3-2-3 and you get me and Zoo singing Rihanna's verse from that Eminem song. Yeah, mine is very much quick, 15 to 20 minutes of history and cool cultural things and stuff like that.
00:10:31
Speaker
They were talking about the hottest coaches. Yeah, we go on a 20 minute rant about who's the most huggable coach in the NFL. And my ranking of NFL bots in my next episode will be my ranking of top Canadians ever. A little bit of everything for everyone. Yes, exactly.
00:10:54
Speaker
I love it. It was definitely a good time being on that one episode. And it's great to listen to Super Bowl week was so much fun to listen to anticipation. All right, with all that good to go.
Impactful Batman Series and Films
00:11:08
Speaker
So full transparency, pulled this idea out of my ass out of nowhere yesterday and curse.
00:11:17
Speaker
It's it's a lot of I have to I have to watch my mouth and I'm really bad at it so it slips from time to time but yeah don't let it like inhibit what you want to say or anything like that given the fact that it's animated content we try to make it as kid-friendly as possible so I do censor any super explosives but like I said don't let it hold you back if you're on a rant it's not the end of the world sorry that just
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, I did that on your cast too. But yeah, I pulled it on my backside. So what I want to do is we're gonna go we're gonna take this round table. And we're gonna go one by one just naming any series or film that's been like impactful, whether it's something you remember fondly as a kid, whether it's something recent that you're just a big fan of. And just talking about the different
00:12:13
Speaker
the different platforms that Batman has been on, the different voice actors, the different variations, the different styles. So we're just gonna go through and just talk Batman. So Reed, why don't you kick us off? What is a series or a movie that just stands out to you Batman related?
00:12:31
Speaker
Well, I can give you, I can give you one of each, the one that stands out the most to me and people never really talk about it as much as the Batman animated series from the mid 2000s, I believe, like 2004. It was on the, I think WB kids, Saturday mornings, I'd wake up and watch that. And that was like, I already knew Batman pretty well from Justice League and the original animated series.
00:12:59
Speaker
But it was that one on WB kids. I just like really started to fall in love with the character. I love the style of it. I love that. I love the versions of the villains on there like
00:13:10
Speaker
their version of Mr. Freeze still really like sticks out to me and just kind of tear. They're also, they had like a terrifying roster Joker on there, which that was one of the better ones, but that one just never gets enough love to me. And I, that was my favorite growing up. And I still, I found it on HBO max a couple of weeks ago and got back into it. Love the dynamic between the whole bat family.
00:13:39
Speaker
Robin and Batgirl's annoying sibling relationship with each other, which I would love to see somehow adapted here in the Matt Reeves movies, also called The Batman. I do wonder, how do you all feel about the The Before Batman? Are you a Batman or The Batman?
00:14:01
Speaker
I go both ways with it. It's like if people are referring to him as Batman, they have a familiarity with him. There's a rapport there. Whereas I like when the villains or the henchmen are like, oh no, it's the Batman. It just gives him this otherworldly monstrous feel.
00:14:18
Speaker
I'm kind of going off of status with this. I feel like if the movie does well, it's going to be up on a pedestal. So when people are like, oh yeah, we watched the Batman, I was like, no, no, the Batman. We didn't just watch any Batman. We just watched the Batman because the film was that amazing, you know? Right. Mattie likes a stasher to it. That's what I was going to point out though. Ohio State fans versus
00:14:42
Speaker
The. Right. Ohio State. The Ohio State. It's The Batman. Yeah. So that, that is my, that's my go to animated series for Batman. If it comes to a movie, uh, it was a few years ago, The Killing Joke. They adapted. And that was, I was really anticipating that because I just love that they brought back Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill to do the voices for that insanely
00:15:12
Speaker
that insanely good story. And to see it finally adapted and using those characters from the series that we all grew up on in this much more adult story, I thought that was awesome. So Killing Joke is one of those movies that I haven't watched again since I saw it at that Theater Limited release, which they overbooked that theater to the point where people were sitting on the staircase.
00:15:40
Speaker
trying to watch it. So it was, but there was, there was a level of overhyped to that movie for me because I went in super excited. There was so much craze over at theaters, you know, overbooked, but I walked out whelmed. I wasn't as blown away. And I don't know if like people just set the bar too high and it just hadn't happened to watch it. And then the whole like, uh,
00:16:06
Speaker
Bruce and Barbara getting it on was something that was just talked about so much that it kind of like clouded everything else about that movie. So I do need to take the time to kind of watch it again and maybe appreciate it a little bit more than like what my initial viewing of it was. Yeah, I'm kind of in a similar place as you Zuhar. I didn't see it in theaters, but I caught it on one of the streaming platforms not long after it came out and
00:16:33
Speaker
I had read the graphic novel, The Killing Jokes, so the whole exploration of Barbara's backstory and the relationship with Bruce was definitely an odd choice in my opinion, but I did want to circle back to The Batman just for a little bit, just because that's a cartoon that I have not watched, but I think I recall seeing it on commercials and whatnot. That is the one that was computer animated, right? One of the first ones that was 3D computer animated.
00:17:17
Speaker
It was the
00:17:18
Speaker
It's one of my favorite animation styles. It's what they did and what the new Scooby Doo series did. Probably just because I grew up watching it, so to me it feels like comfort and home when I see it. They did a lot with Batgirl in that series. And they did a lot with Poison Ivy. This was one of the first times they actually made Poison Ivy not this sex symbol. They kind of made her a little more complicated than just that.
00:17:48
Speaker
She really was menacing. Like she had that, uh, the seduction vibe to her, but the result of anybody who got in her way was always like horrific too. It was like seduction and that like, I'm a confident woman, not like, I'm going to take my clothes off. Which was what they mostly use poison ivy for, for a long time. No, she was, she's definitely a boss. Oh yeah.
00:18:16
Speaker
Two of the, I think, most iconic things from that series were kind of running through my head as you first brought it up. One of them being every time that Batman was in the Batmobile. And it was like, the car itself wasn't ever moving, but it kind of had like the moving line.
00:18:33
Speaker
Like, if you were to show that to somebody who doesn't have any relation to it, they probably think it's the cheesiest looking thing, but it's so cool in memory, right? And the second thing is, as you were explaining it, Joker's version of Jingle Bells. What's running through my head trying to make sure I remember the words. It's so iconic. I remember the Jingle Bells, Batman Smells Robinly.
00:19:05
Speaker
That was originally used in Batman the Animated Series, if I'm not mistaken, because I've been singing that version since I was like four or five years old. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. I iconic. He sang it. Yeah, sure. So it was so good. Yeah, even Robin was so confused. He was like, what's going on right now? First, I think to be weird for the Joker is very discomforting. And you can see it on Robin's 2D face.
00:19:35
Speaker
Makings of a good Joker. Oh, yeah. I mean everything about those character designs. They're they're just so simple and They really do stand the test of time The dialogue the character development between all the villains and this is something that I haven't even I don't think I've ever watched since I was a kid like I've seen even clips and stuff here on Facebook, but Overall, it's just it's something that's really embedded in my memory in a positive way more than anything else. I
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's just, I think it's like just real strong nostalgia that gets it for me. Going like from that, it would like lead right into challenge showdown and some version of Yu-Gi-Oh! that was on right after it. Yu-Gi-Oh! felt like three hours straight. And then Yu-Gi-Oh! and then Yu-Gi-Oh! GT, it was a whole thing.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, the original Yu-Gi-Oh and GT are stuff that is still re-watched from time to time. And then of course, Pokemon always hit those mornings as well. Yeah, they did. I think Lucha Libre would come along. Yes! Oh, my childhood. Well, I think that's where DC got most people. Like, Most Generations was that classic Saturday morning cartoon where you're eating the cereal out of a way too big of a bowl and you're like getting up to make sure that you make it on time because, you know, we didn't have streaming then.
00:20:54
Speaker
And I feel like when they started with that, that's what got so many people hyped about certain heroes, because they put them in those shows that early. Yeah. And then we had recording on BCRs, if we couldn't make it on a certain Saturday. Oh, yeah. Make sure you actually had it set. Yeah. If you had it, I never had it set.
00:21:18
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it was one of those things like I could never get up that early for school, but if it was to watch Batman and Yu-Gi-Oh, I was up, no problem. Worth it. There. Good times. Good times. And I feel old. A millennial generation. Oh, I'm a millennial, but I think I've got like three or four years on all of you guys.
00:21:45
Speaker
So my sister was born in 98 and I called her the beta testers of the 2000s. I was like, you're not quite a 90s kid. They were just kind of like seeing what the 2000 would come out like. So do you feel that way with us right now?
00:22:02
Speaker
I was born in 90s, so a little bit, a little bit. As we get older, age means less and less. It does. But back when you were a kid like that, it was very, a few years made all the difference in the world in terms of what you were watching and what you were experiencing. It's a maturity thing. I mean, kids, they're miles apart at certain age levels. Oh, yeah, for sure. Versus by the time you reach a certain age, your brain's fully developed, and you're about as competent as you're going to get.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, I recently saw that there's an animated series from my childhood that I remember watching on Cartoon Network like religiously called Swat Cats and I sent it to Zuhair and Andrew in a group chat and neither one of them had any idea what I was talking about. I was like, okay, I'm excited for this one. You don't have to be. I have to Google that now because Swat Cats just like struck something in my brain.
00:22:55
Speaker
It was like two anthropomorphic fighter pilot cats that fought like Kaiju of various kinds and it was awesome and they're rebooting it. I'll watch it. Oh, I remember these guys.
00:23:11
Speaker
SWAT kits. Oh, the 90s or something. You see, this is when you talk about like Batman animated series or any of those movies, it's all like nostalgic for us. Yeah. Cause we grew up watching it. So like for mine, for example, my introduction to DC and even like comics and stuff like that, it started with Scooby Doo.
Unique Batman Crossovers and Style
00:23:33
Speaker
Now that's cause I was a military family and when you live overseas, you have access to exactly one channel.
00:23:39
Speaker
um and it only shows certain things so it was always Scooby-Doo and so my introduction was like the 1970s Scooby-Doo when they had they would have the Harlem Globetries but they would also have the Batman episodes um and so like any of the pairings of like Scooby-Doo and Batman that's what got me so then I started reading like comics and stuff like that until I moved on to better
00:24:04
Speaker
with better things like Marvel. So like the most recent one for me is Scooby-Doo and Batman, The Brave and the Bold, which was in 2018, but it like did the animation style of those like 2003, 2004. So they did like more of a classic animation style and they had like an older voice cast. So they had like Matthew Lilliard doing Shaggy and stuff like that. But for Batman, they had
00:24:34
Speaker
Was it Deidreich Batter? Batter? Deidreich Batter. Deidreich Batter, thank you. Which at least like for me growing up, that's definitely a Batman voice that sticks for me. But if you want to talk about like a detective line, anytime they paired with Scooby Doo is when they've laid more heavily into detective work and a detective, you know, Batman side between side.
00:24:59
Speaker
I just had to google Batman Scooby Doo, and there's just this great clip of Batman driving a mystery machine with the... Yes. There's been so many episodes of that where they'll pair up and that they always play really heavily into like that more like crime solving, solving mystery side, and less like, you know, gadgets and fights. Which I always thought was super cool.
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, like you were talking about the like classic 70s version of Scooby Doo, I think they got like Adam West to come and do the voice for Batman on those episodes and like Cesar Romero as the Joker and whatnot. So yeah, definitely quality stuff. I remember those fondly as well.
00:25:45
Speaker
They were fantastic episodes and they would all, I mean like Batman and Robin always had such a close relationship with Shaggy and Scooby. And I was hilarious because it's Batman and then it's like Shaggy. Scooby and Robin, I see the comparison, but Shaggy and Batman. Swinks. Yeah. She swinks Batman. You have one guy's running away and the other running towards the danger.
00:26:14
Speaker
I wonder if he kept any Scooby snacks in his utility belt. He had to. It's the only way he could get them out. They had so many different movies, though. Like all throughout the years, it was just it's because DC owns Scooby Doo, why they were they always paired them together. But like. It always makes me happy. It worked. Even the comics, they still run comic lines of Batman and Scooby Doo. It's amazing. It's just a classic combo. Yeah.
00:26:44
Speaker
Just got it. Why don't you take the next one? Yeah for the next one. I'm gonna focus on a film and it's one of the Lesser celebrated animated films in my opinion, but it came out in 2008 right before the Dark Knight released in theaters and it's called Batman Gotham night and it was kind of like the precursor to Star Wars vision so you get six
00:27:08
Speaker
anime-style anthology stories and it's missing some of the classic hallmarks of Batman. There is no Joker, there is no Robin, but it is just such a unique and excellently animated film that I had to bring it up. It's like
00:27:25
Speaker
They're all loosely kind of connected. The first one is like these four kids that are skateboarding and they all meet up and they're like, you'll never believe what I just saw. And they like basically tell about these various interactions with Batman where they describe him as like a living shadow or like a monstrous actual man bat. One kid kind of sees him as like a robo mech. But then finally at the end, Batman comes crashing through while he's fighting this enemy. And you get to see what he looks like firsthand and just
00:27:53
Speaker
really really riveting and really cool to see the various animation styles and actually one of the studios from Star Wars Visions that did what is arguably the best episode the 9th Jedi production IG they did one of these episodes they did the episode crossfire which kind of follows
00:28:11
Speaker
two cops that are part of Gordon's major crimes unit and they're kind of having a debate about the nature of Batman. Is he a crime fighter? Is he a vigilante? Should they be supporting him? And the next thing you know, they get caught in between the fire between.
00:28:26
Speaker
the Moroni family and the Russians and they almost get killed, but Batman arrives on the scene and gets to demonstrate what a hero he is. But from there he battles Killer Croc. He has an interaction with Lucius Fox where he gets to like test out this electromagnetic pulse that deflects bullets, but he ends up accidentally hurting a henchman with the ricochet and he has to like deliver him to the hospital. And he's like, I'm willing to put my life on the line, but it has to be my life. If I'm putting other people in danger, it's no go.
00:28:54
Speaker
So I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it. Definitely check it out. There's a really good sequence with Deadshot as well, which we've had live action versions of Deadshot, but I have yet to be satisfied. I think Deadshot would be the perfect villain for a Batman film in live action. It would be. I feel like Deadshot's very hard to track down. Yeah. Yes.
00:29:17
Speaker
I remember Gotham Knight pretty vividly. I think I still have the DVD somewhere. And you're right. The different animation styles used to tell those stories. It was incredible. Yeah. And it's worth mentioning Kevin Conroy does the voice in every single one of them. He's a god. Yeah, I'm looking at some Google images of it. And the look definitely looks familiar, but I've seen it.
00:29:47
Speaker
I can't recall anything this scene of Deadshot versus Batman does look really cool. Yeah, I'm gonna have to put this on my list and check it out. Yeah, I highly recommend it. And like I said, they're all loosely connected. So they kind of flow from one into the next you have like the backstory of the Russians versus the Marones. But I remember when he gets when he's fighting Killer Croc, he gets bitten.
00:30:10
Speaker
And then in the next episode, he's not bleeding from the same place, but he's still grievously injured. And you get to have a flashback to time he spent in India, where he learned to deal with his pain. And he was working with this woman named Cassandra. And she basically taught him how to walk on hot coals, sleep on needles, and all this stuff. And she tells him at the end, it's like, your pain, I can't help you overcome it. I don't know if you'll ever be able to overcome it. You're just going to have to learn to work through it,
00:30:38
Speaker
really speaks to the character of Batman. He's like, yeah, ever since those two bullets got fired off in crime valley or crime alley, not crime valley, he's been trying to stop them. And yeah, it's a different take on Batman. Like I said, it's missing Robin, it's missing the Joker, but it's still great just to kind of focus on some of the lesser known villains and get to see Batman in a different light.
00:31:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's so much that goes on with developing Batman villains that not having those characters, you're really not, you're not necessarily missing anything. Like, there's certain heroes where it's like, if this needs to have that, and if you don't put them together, it just doesn't work, or it's boring, or it's missing something. And Batman is one of those characters, or one of those universes that's just never had that problem. There's always something that you can do with
00:31:34
Speaker
any of the villains and just make it interesting like even recently like Batman hush they just threw in a new villain in there and it just worked i know a lot of casual viewers are really uh nervous about the Batman not necessarily having like the Joker as one of the main things or us not really seeing any kind of Robin and stuff
00:31:53
Speaker
And I feel like if they went and they saw that, they could definitely see that it's okay. There's so much other story in depth to that character that they don't need to put the Batman in immediately.
00:32:07
Speaker
put the Joker in immediately. Sure. Like hugging, like trying to comfort a child. Like, it's okay. It can be a good movie. Joker. Like you said, like you said about his villains, Batman has arguably the greatest rogues gallery in comics. I think it could be argued that between him and Spider-Man. Yeah. Yeah. You can take this one of those two.
00:32:35
Speaker
You can take the Joker out and go for somebody like the Riddler, Penguin, Clayface, who I would still love to see in live action. I only want Clayface if it's Harley Quinn, Clayface. That's the only live action one I will take. An actor!
00:32:58
Speaker
Oh, I know we're focusing on animated stuff, but just with this through line about villains and not necessarily needing the Joker, my favorite live action Batman film is still Batman Begins, which doesn't have the Joker at all. It's all focused on Ra's or Rachael Ghul, whatever your preference is there, and Scarecrow. And Emily, I know you mentioned that the Riddler is your favorite villain, but
00:33:26
Speaker
other than the Joker, I think Scarecrow is the best Batman villain because apart from like the detective nature, it's all about fear. Batman uses fear. Scarecrow uses fear. Yeah, I never appreciated Scarecrow until the Titans show when they started implementing Red Hood into the line. And all of a sudden, I was like,
00:33:49
Speaker
I'm like, I was like watching it at night by myself and I just had my lamp and my candle on and I was like, I'm scared right now. Yeah, I just caught up on that a few weeks ago and scarecrows definitely one of those people or it's like his his composure and then his ability to just make you watch Batman fight himself. And just his manipulation tactics are
00:34:15
Speaker
on me. I mean, it's a true analysis of a sociopath versus a psychopath rates made that does everything without any kind of emotions, which is fascinating, far more fascinating than a psychopath because we can all we are all charged by emotions at some point, but I don't think really, any of us have done something with no emotion. All I'm gonna say, because you know, the pizza don't very seen.
00:34:42
Speaker
Oh my god, I was not okay with the pizza delivery scene. That's all I'll say. And I'm going to throw in an honorable mention before we go before we go to Emily's pick.
Animated Batman Movie Highlights
00:34:53
Speaker
And one of the coolest movies that I saw that was animated was Assault on Arkham. And I had watched this movie before Suicide Squad came on and it really gave me a bar of what I was expecting of them. You had Harley, Deadshot, Killer Frost, Killer Croc.
00:35:13
Speaker
A lot of killers in there. Their knockoff Spider-Man. Was it just Black Spider, I think his name was. So like their interaction and their wittiness and just total disregard for each other's lives and stuff like that. Like that was a really cool movie and Batman was in it very sparingly, but like his inclusion was enough. And it goes to show like how much you can do with all the Batman villains. Again, Joker not even being necessary in that.
00:35:43
Speaker
Does Batman ever have like a sinister six type thing? I can't remember, I'm not an expert.
00:35:49
Speaker
I think everybody just gangs up against him. It's not really a set crew. It'd be cool if they could get like a crew and like a name because that always makes you ten times cooler. It's just like the madness of Gotham that they're just always there. So they get so sick of him that they have to end up working together and everything to do something. And it kind of ends up destroying them. Yeah. I had Red Hood and Two Face and Ivy and like it was just everybody trying to screw him over.
00:36:20
Speaker
But everybody always has this hesitation to bring in the Joker. It's like, we're willing to work together to some extent, but bringing the Joker in is like crossing a line. And that shows real desperation. What is it? In the Marvel, it just reminds me, in the Marvel comics, the Civil War line, there's a moment when Cap brings in the Punisher and everybody's like, we're bringing in the Punisher. Right.
00:36:46
Speaker
Like that's where we've gone to. My Marvel reference was, um, uh, the second Thor movie where Loki was like, you must be truly desperate to call. We're bringing in Zemo in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. There's always a moment when you're like, should we bring in that psychopath or not? And I feel like Batman goes through that a lot, especially cause Catwoman is such a like back and forth. Yeah.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, like a lot of times we'll work with her and then he doesn't work with her and it's like should I work with her this time or not? And then she leaves him at the altar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just flips the coin for her whether she's going to be helpful or not. All right, Emily, what's your pick? Well, I did the Scooby Doo in Batman, but I can do another the Lego Batman movie, which was excellent.
00:37:44
Speaker
So I actually I still haven't seen that one yet. Well, I did absolutely love him in the Lego movie. I thought he was brilliant. And I think it was one of those things where it's like I couldn't get someone to go to the theater with me because I still haven't been in the theater by myself. And I just I never made the effort to do it after that.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah. I saw the Lego Batman in theaters and I saw it by myself and I felt a little awkward because there were a lot of people there with kids and whatnot, but it's still great. It's as much a Batman movie as it is a Lego movie and it just kind of an ode
00:38:24
Speaker
and an homage to all adaptations of Batman. You get the campy stuff from the 1960s. They make allusions to the 90s films as well as Christopher Nolan's movies. And it's worth mentioning that we were just talking about Catwoman. It's actually the first time we got Zoe Kravitz to voice Catwoman and she's going to be our Catwoman in the upcoming
00:38:46
Speaker
the Batman. I didn't realize that she had done the voice. I had forgotten about that. And it's not like animated series and stuff like that. But if you have not read the book, Catwoman Soulstealer by Sarah J Maas, it's an excellent look at Catwoman and Ivy and a lot of the female villains as well as
00:39:10
Speaker
a version of Batman. And it's really, it's really, really fascinating. It's not a graphic novel. It is an actual book. But it's, it's really, really good. They did a whole kind, they did all kinds of series pairing with different YA authors DC. And so they have like different books for different like villains and heroes. I think they do have a Batman one.
00:39:36
Speaker
But I feel like it's especially because we're gonna get Catwoman. It's a good look at her kind of versatility, her back and forth.
00:39:44
Speaker
We came prepped with recommendations. We didn't, we, we lied at the start. We didn't even know who Batman was before yesterday. We just found all of us out last night. We've been reading, watching everything. Well, it's like, it's weird because I'm not the hugest DC fan, but if it's like superhero content, I'm going to, I'm going to watch it. Even if it's awful, I'm going to watch it. Um, but like Batman, as much as I like.
00:40:13
Speaker
on DC all the time. Batman and Batman villains are ones that I can actually hold to like some kind of respect compared to other DC things. Yeah, yeah. That's fair. And speaking to the Lego Batman. One of my favorite aspects of that movie is that they take the Joker and Batman relationship and almost give it like a romantic twist to it like they're scorned lovers. And Zach Galifianakis as the Joker is great.
00:40:41
Speaker
Yeah. And Will Arnett kills it as Batman too. As much as he's great at delivering that comedic performance, I'd be down to have Will Arnett do like a serious Batman take. Like he's that good.
00:40:52
Speaker
And then having in the Lego movie itself, having Channing Tatum as Superman and Jonah Hill as Green Lantern. Right. And it's like bashing each other. And I got to say, my favorite scene from that movie is when Batman's trying to hit the bar and he throws like 10 batarangs at it. And when he finally gets his first try.
00:41:15
Speaker
There's definitely got to be something romantic between the Joker and Batman with how obsessed they are with each other. They're kind of two sides of a coin. I think they can relate to each other's madness in a sense. Well, depending on what origin story for Joker, but similar traumas and then they end up going two different totally paths. So it's a great look and analysis of a human psyche.
00:41:45
Speaker
There's a lot of stuff like that in anime as well, like, especially a lot of Naruto stuff where it's like, what would have happened if they actually took this route and did this and this? And like, how would this character have ended up if it wasn't for something as simple as like, you know, a helping hand? It kind of comes back to what we're saying about Killing Joker, the way that movie ended and all the similarities and parallels between Batman and Joker are just like, disturbing.
00:42:11
Speaker
I've just started my dive into anime. Well, I grew up watching Naruto, but everybody told me to do My Hero Academia because being a superhero person, I'm gonna love it. So. Yay! One.
00:42:23
Speaker
Azaima and Todoroki love them. Yeah, like I'm in love with both of them.
Exploring Batman's Strategic Mind
00:42:29
Speaker
Who's the first one you said? Azaima? Azawa. I'm probably the instructor. Azawa, Azawa. Thank you. I'm not an expert yet, so I promise I will get there. But Azawa and Todoroki absolutely love them. I love my ears. Massive, massive crushes on them.
00:42:52
Speaker
But that lion, because you reminded me of it with anime, is that Todoroki and then Dabi, his older brother, they both have similar things that happened to them because of Endeavor, but then you have one ending, going the hero path and one going the villain path. Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, the level of trauma that a lot of those characters have to go through, whether it be through the story itself or stuff that they came into the series with, it's really deep. And it was one of those things where I'm not going to go into my hero too much because I won't stop. But like to have that many people in a class right off the bat, like by the third episode and them actually managed to make you care about each one and understand where each one comes from is just
00:43:41
Speaker
Incredible as a storyteller. Incredible. Absolutely.
00:43:50
Speaker
Now now I'm now I'm on the anime train so I don't I don't know if I'm gonna like like all of them But you know, I started I started my path and I can see so many similarities to you know All the superhero stuff I love which I figured I would but at the same time I was hesitant because I was like that's so much more content My goal as an anime lover is to get somebody to at least watch the first episode
00:44:14
Speaker
And you have done that for me. You were the ones to convince me. You guys were the ones to convince me, because I wanted to be able to listen to your guys' show more. And I know that you cover a lot of anime stuff. It's only a second time, actually. Well, it's just all the stuff that I've been seeing. I don't shut up about it, so yeah. It's the anime stuff that pops up.
00:44:36
Speaker
So that's music to my ears. I'm going to go on to my I think it's no secret that Red Hood is my favorite DC animated movie, whether it be just Batman or not. So I'm going to switch it up a little bit and talk about Justice League Doom.
00:44:51
Speaker
It is a movie where, at the beginning of it, each hero of the Justice League is attacked by their greatest weakness. And it turns out that somebody had infiltrated the Batcave, and Batman had intel on all of his teammates, and they stole that intel and attacked the whole League.
00:45:11
Speaker
There's no continuity to this movie. It's just a one-off but like the pure chaos that Batman's decisions made and him still be like yeah, I do it again is just Baffling of like who he is as a person. It's all about the mission
00:45:30
Speaker
Yeah. Batman is a man who always has contingencies in place, even for the people that he supposedly trusts. So to have that backfire and him stick to that resolve is just a fascinating character study. He's one of the most competent heroes out there, but he is not without his flaws. It's why you can never count him out. It's why he can stand to somebody like Superman, who it shouldn't logically make sense. Somebody with no powers against somebody with all the powers.
00:45:59
Speaker
when you have that mind that you prep for everything. Yeah. Yeah, the greatest detective in the world. That title does not come lightly. No.
00:46:09
Speaker
But since you did bring up Under the Red Hood, I just have to mention I did watch it in preparation for this podcast. So I thought Jensen Ackles did a great job as the Red Hood. And then I saw that he went on to actually voice Batman in the two parter, the Long Halloween. So after this podcast, I need to follow up and see how he did as Batman. Yeah, I've been planning on watching that tonight, too, just because that's what Andrew covered. And they were talking about the movie and how it was actually pretty well done.
00:46:39
Speaker
That's on my list of things to watch before I get to watch the Batman four days early. I'm going on Tuesday and I have much preparation to do. That's exciting. Yeah, I got that AMC emails like you want to go a few days. It's like, yeah, 100 percent. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Don't ask me twice. And I got my I got my seat in IMAX. It's like right behind the handicap rails. I can kick my feet up. That's the spot. That's the spot. That's always the spot. You brought up Jensen Ackles as the voice
00:47:09
Speaker
Would you all, would you all rank Kevin Conroy as the elite Batman voice? Yeah. I would say he is the Batman. The Batman, yes. Where would you rank him in terms of all time, all time Batman, even live action?
00:47:29
Speaker
considering his tenure and how long he's been voicing him, I would probably put him as number one. As far as the live action performances go, I am a Christian Bale guy. I just, like I said, Batman Begins is still my favorite, but there's no denying the staying power of Kevin Conroy and how much he did to define who Batman is, and not just Batman, but the way he does the subtle difference for Bruce Wayne. It's just a slight uptick in the register of his voice, but it makes the character completely different.
00:47:58
Speaker
That's what I mean. He had his live action experience in Crisis on Infinite Earths too. Right. Which was really outstanding. I was wondering how they were going to pull that off.
00:48:10
Speaker
Like his tone and his persona of Batman really did translate into live action and it was actually like terrifying the drive and motive that he had to like want to kill Supergirl and Superman in that moment. Like he was a menace and it was amazing. So I'm part of the minority that really loves Batfleck.
00:48:32
Speaker
Especially because that level of gritty action and him just being the freaking daylights out of everyone in that warehouse like that is an unforgettable scene that put him at the top for me, but he still doesn't lap Kevin Conroy and now knowing that he can nail a live action performance too, especially with how much I love Batman Beyond like he nailed that type of Bruce Wayne.
00:48:56
Speaker
I'm glad you brought that up about crisis too. It was very cool to see him get to do it live action, even if it was just for a quick moment or a quick bit. It was everything. All right. Uh, I guess everybody got one in and as expected, this was such an exciting topic that we didn't have a chance to go for around
Humor and Innovation in Batman Adaptations
00:49:16
Speaker
too. So any like honorable mentions that you guys just want to throw out there? Oof.
00:49:23
Speaker
Well, the name Dietrich Bader came up earlier and we've talked, we made a couple of mentions to the Harley Quinn animated series, but that really is one of my favorite renditions of Batman. He's not the focus of that show by any means, but the few appearances that he does make are super entertaining. And the way that he kind of has to be a babysitter for this version of Gordon, I find absolutely hysterical. I agree. It's probably like.
00:49:50
Speaker
Reed started watching it and then he recommended that show to me and it's very quickly become one of my favorite animated series to watch. I'm so excited for the next season. And I just love how pathetic Commissioner Gordon is. It's like Gordon's always like,
00:50:10
Speaker
You're my best friend, right? I need reassurance, like I'm here for you. You just laid some math signals just to talk about like his divorce and all that. Oh my God. Stay on topic. And then getting to see like you start the beginnings of that girl and you get so many cool lines in there.
00:50:32
Speaker
Just such a good show. Such a good show. I mean, in regards to to other amazing shows that Batman's not the primary focus, but just has an amazing preference. I can't not mention Young Justice. I absolutely love his depiction in that the very few parts that he had are super impactful. And I get super excited whenever he comes up and just the relation between the whole Bat family in general. Like that's that's the show that started this podcast and
00:51:01
Speaker
Please go watch it over and over so that they don't cancel it. I'm trying to think because I know somebody made a webtoon comic about the Bat family because I think they may have started, at least in production, like an animated series of it, which would be super cool and at least something to look forward to. But I can't remember.
00:51:23
Speaker
While you're looking that up on the subject of Young Justice, I just wanted to mention as the behind the scenes guy, that's Bruce Greenwood that does the voice of Batman for Young Justice. And I think as far as voice performances go, he's right behind Kevin Conroy. He does a super solid job voicing Batman. He did Batman and Under the Red Hood and various other incarnations there.
00:51:46
Speaker
I'm trying to see who the voice actor for the DC animated universe was. It might have been him. I wouldn't be surprised. Jason Amara. Oh, okay. Yeah. Jason Amara did Batman in all of those movies. So while everybody was focused on how bad the DCE was, it kind of slipped under the radar that DC actually had their own animated universe kind of with a similar
00:52:13
Speaker
layout to MCU where, you know, they refer to the other characters and the events of this, you know, affected the events of that. And Jason Omara did hit Batman in all 19 of those movies a lot. I mean, there's more Batman movies and there wasn't anything else, rightfully so. But just an awesome sequence. Even the most boring of all of them was still a fun watch. Justice League Dark is by far my favorite out of those Constantine and Batman in the same room together, like
00:52:43
Speaker
It's just amazing. Just the two most self-centered people having to work together is just beautiful. It is a fun watch. You can watch that one on your own. You don't need to watch the whole thing. But if you do need a cinematic universe to binge, the DC animated universe is definitely the way to go, starting with Flashpoint Paradox.
Classic Batman Films and Games
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Changing things up a little bit, I'd be completely remiss if I did not bring up Batman, Mask of the Phantasm. It was probably one of the first movies I saw in theaters.
00:53:16
Speaker
It was directly in the continuity of Batman the Animated Series. It had a villain that I would love to see pop back in some fashion in the phantasm. But we were talking about the noir and the detective angle. And that's one of the best stories in terms of giving you a mystery to follow along the entire time. And it is kin friendly, so you don't see anything gratuitous or over the top. But the illusions are there. And it's a really gripping story. And if you have not seen it, I highly recommend it. We could do a podcast about that movie alone.
00:53:46
Speaker
Yeah, it was probably the best theatrically released Batman until The Nolan film started coming out. I had heard of mask of the phantasm all my childhood never never saw it but Now that it's on it's really available on HBO Max. Mm-hmm. Definitely gonna check that out I know I've seen it, but I can't recall any of it. I
00:54:10
Speaker
It's good. It sounds like it. After we're done with the with the Lego verse, we'll be sure to classic Batman stuff. The the family stuff, it's Batman Wayne Family Adventures. They're at least releasing stuff on Webtoons and they've released the short clips and videos. So I think it's looking like it will get picked up. OK. Right on.
00:54:39
Speaker
which it looks very much like comedic and almost, it almost kind of looks like they all live together at the same time rather than the storylines where it's like one at a time. It's like all the Robins shoved in one room together.
00:54:52
Speaker
Okay. Oh yeah, just a couple of these snippets that I see right now. I mean, I love Jason Todd and the fact that he's in here is really cool, but it's just like, is everybody else like scowling at each other or Batman just sick of it? And there's one of him drinking coffee while everyone's bickering over the side. Yeah, this sounds amazing. So it's like big brother Batman, like everybody having Elizabeth in the house and coexist together at the same time. It's more like dad Batman.
00:55:15
Speaker
with too many children. Like it's all of his orphan children actually living in the same house at once. Yeah. Okay. Oh, this looks amazing. Yeah. So right now it's a comic and they've done like some clips, but I know it's very, very popular. So it would not surprise me getting picked up like ASAP. Yeah. Nightwing looks awesome. I'm, I'm totally down to read this. I don't think anybody brought it up, but also shout out to Batman Beyond.
00:55:44
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, we mentioned a little bit with my with Kevin Conroy is that Batman? But yeah, the first two episodes of that show alone are just so gut wrenching. Terry McGinnis and everything that happened to his family and Batman just being old and not being able to function like all that was so good. And then the movie Return of the Joker. Watching that again as an adult, I was not OK, because I don't think I fully understood like what happened and who Tim Drake was and like,
00:56:13
Speaker
what what the events of that movie actually meant. And that movie is up there. It's really good. And that suit. Terry's suit is so sick. Oh, yeah. He did Iron Man before. Yeah, you did. I feel like Spider-Man 2099 was heavily influenced by Batman Beyond as well.
00:56:37
Speaker
I think Batman Beyond just did it better. And I'm a Spider-Man super fan. Right on. I've got a few more just to do a quick rapid fire of. We talked a little bit about Adam West, but I wanted to mention the return of the Caped Crusaders. It was kind of bringing back the classic 60s series and you had Adam West come back to voice him. And then in part two, it was Two-Face. And one of the things about that classic 60 series is that they tried multiple times to bring William Shatner
00:57:05
Speaker
in his two-face, but it never happened. So then for the second movie, they actually got William Shatner to voice two-face, and that was actually Adam West's final performance as Batman. So they're pretty campy. They're pretty tongue-in-cheek. But if you're a fan of all things Batman, it's worth the watch.
00:57:23
Speaker
a couple that I have not seen, but I want to see just because they seem like such different takes and kind of different vignettes on the tried and true story of Batman. I want to see Batman Ninja. And then I want to see Gotham by Gaslight. I don't know if anyone here has seen either of those. I've heard. I've heard good things about Gotham by Gaslight. Yeah. OK. I've heard good things about that one. Not such good things about Ninja. OK. OK. Those are ones that.
00:57:53
Speaker
I guess I was waiting to hear more about before I gave it a try. At risk of content overload. Yeah, totally get that. The last little thing I'll mention here is this is technically animation. There's animation used. I wanted to bring up the Arkham series just because I feel like it's one of the best versions of Batman in terms of just taking the fantastical elements, the noir elements,
00:58:21
Speaker
really bringing it to life in the best way possible. Those games are just excellent. And then actually the Telltale video game as well is, I feel like they took like Jon Hamm and made him Batman for that particular series, but it did a couple of different things. Like it had a like skinny version of the penguin and kind of like tied his story back to
00:58:44
Speaker
the Wayne family and it seems like based on the trailers we've gotten for the Batman, there's going to be some intrigue about, you know, maybe the Wayne family was not as scrupulous as they appeared and maybe they have a darker history. I like it. I like the idea of a skinny Joker or a skinny penguin. Yeah. Oswald Cobblepot. Don't forget to put a Justice League Dark on that list.
00:59:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah, consume. Yeah. I got a list of like which Batman movie that I want to watch tonight. But as we always say, we love hearing from the listeners as well. Please send us the email, hit us up on Instagram or Twitter, selling us your favorite animated Batman content. Don't limit yourself to one. If you don't want to, we'd be happy to hear them all.
00:59:32
Speaker
And repeating again, make sure you check out the 323 with Reed Murphy. I got to hop on to one of the episodes, Go Commanders. It was super fun talking and definitely looking forward to the episodes to come. If you're gonna be an awesome con, please check out Emily Sissel and all her amazing work. She's probably one of the coolest teachers I have ever talked to and her method of using comic books in the classroom is truly unbelievable, unbelievable. Jay Scott, you got anything to plug?
01:00:00
Speaker
Nothing to plug. I just want to thank our guests, Reed and Emily for their time and their voices. This was a really fun conversation and thanks to all the listeners for all the support we've gotten. We're coming up on a year here pretty soon. With that in mind, if you like what we're doing here, it's a great time to leave us a review. You can do that on Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to us. It'd be great for the growth of the show and just give us a share. If you have somebody in your life that loves animated content and think they would appreciate our thoughts and opinions and
01:00:29
Speaker
Please pass us along. We definitely appreciate it. So thanks for tuning in. That's T-double-O, N-I-N. Stay well, Gotham. Yeah.
01:00:43
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
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Speaker
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