Transcript
Speaker: Hi it's Stan here for Dusty Disks Radio and this is the podcast liner notes revealing chats with Canada's retro music makers.
Speaker: Today, I'm very honored to have as my special guest singer, songwriter, musician, composer, Brian Meisner, best known as the lead singer, songwriter, bassist for North America's first Beatles cover band Liverpool and Canadian rock groups Spice and Ariel. We'll be talking about as many musical adventures and we'll get some insights into the Canadian music scene from someone who had been involved, who's been involved since the 1970s. So thanks for joining me today, Brian. How are you?
Speaker: Oh, I'm great. Thank you. It's fairly warm here today. So we're getting unseasonably warm weather. So you're back in Toronto or in the Toronto area? I'm up in the Blue Mountains actually. Okay.
Speaker: near Georgian Bay near Collingwood. Very nice. Well, good. Well, yeah, it's been the mildest winter. I think I can remember on record, we had one snowfall here on the West Coast and then it's been mild today. I could go jogging if I wanted. It's pretty mild. Yeah, there we go. But you were born in Saskatoon, so you're used to the cold. That's right, Saskatchewan, yep. Well, there you go. And so were you born in Saskatoon or just in a small town outside of Saskatoon? No, yeah, we have to back up a little. I was born in Kindersley, Saskatchewan.
Speaker: Okay, there you go. And actually lived in Colville, which was about probably 20 miles from under sleep. Right. So you're used to the cold weather because it would be brutally cold out there. And then it's funny because I've talked to lots of people from the prairies and they say, well, music was one of the things, it was before computers and video games and stuff. So hockey and music seemed to be the two things that people gravitated to. Oh, in Saskatchewan?
Speaker: I would say so. If we want to start right back at the beginning, I can do that. I just wanted to ask you about your formal training and how you got into music in the first place. My mother was a music teacher and she sang and played piano. He actually was a teacher in the school system.
Speaker: She was teaching in Colville and so I started she started me singing in the local church there at the age of seven or eight years old singing in the choir and doing some solos and stuff like that too. So she was really putting me out there.
Speaker: And then that graduated to, there was a Saskatoon radio station called CFQC. I haven't checked to see if it's still in business or not, but CFQC would come out and broadcast live in villages and towns in Saskatchewan. And everybody would come to the local town hall and CFQC would be there broadcasting live and they'd raise money for cancer.
Speaker: Okay. So my first quote on stage experience rather would have been at that age of seven or eight and singing Marty Robbins, El Paso, and Turkey and the Straw for this audience. And then people would phone in and donate money based on the act that they liked the best. Oh, very nice. Yeah, very cool.
Speaker: So that was really neat. So that was my first experience. And things just took, I guess the whole progression just sort of happened and you got into playing and then I guess bands eventually got into the music scene as a national progression.
Speaker: Yeah, that sort of took hold when we moved to Saskatoon. Okay. So then I was taking guitar lessons and piano lessons and actually I played both of them, but mostly guitar live and bass live. So then I joined up with some guys, I was taking guitar lessons and there was a store called Gordy Brant Music in downtown Saskatoon.
Speaker: I went and took lessons there on the guitar player that I took lessons from. I have to give him a big shout out. I don't know his name, but he was regaling me with his time in Soho in New York City and all the goings on there. That twist would have been the mid 60s.
Speaker: Yeah so anyway I got a hold of that and I learned how to play guitar and then the first band that was in, this is a typical story I think.
Speaker: nobody wanted to play bass. So I said, okay, I'll play bass. And oddly enough, I went down to Gordy Branson, bought a Beatle bass at the time. Nice. Yeah. Well, that's a common story. I mean, lots of guitar players converted over and then I still have lots of friends that do both. So it's not all there. Oh, yeah. I love playing bass guitar actually.
Speaker: That's very good. And then, of course, during that time, I often say, I mean, we have mostly older listeners, I would assume, but the younger listeners, I mean, around that time, playing in a band was one of the coolest things in the world. You know, there's every other house had a band rehearsing in the basement or music lessons. Almost everybody tried music in some measure.
Speaker: Yeah. So that was really cool. And I hooked up with some guys from high school and that we formed our own band called the Blue Plague. We got that name from, but anyway, we played a few gigs. And then that band morphed into another group called Refugee.
Speaker: And we were doing all covers at that time. So that was the story there. So then that morphed into, I guess I was probably 17, 18, somewhere in there into a band called Applebee's, which had been reformed. And that's when I hooked up with the fellow, the drummer that I would play with for the next probably 10, 11, 12 years, Lauren Curry from Saskatoon. So he was in that band.
Speaker: So I often ask my guests, did you have a defining moment or was it, you know, how much of what you did was planned or happenstance or accident? No, I don't think there was any real plan there at that time and point. But the interesting part of that was that the next step in my career, if you will, was Laurie quitting the band and going to Winnipeg to join Sugar and Spice. Okay.
Speaker: So then, then, uh, you know, uh, fate comes into it because myself and another singer in the band, Greg Delaron, it actually is his name, um, hopped in my Cadillac and decided we're going to Toronto to make it the big time. Oh, I was going to ask you how you landed in Toronto. So there you go. That wasn't happening, Stan. You just said, let's go. That's where it's happening. So we're going to go and do it. Yeah. And that, and that's where the, uh, the whole thing really
Speaker: took a turn because I was only there for, I guess it was two months, roughly two months and living near Yorkville. But as I was checking my brain here, I didn't have any money.
Speaker: My grandmother had given me $500 when I announced I was leaving, which was just such a blessing. And I was driving this Cadillac, which was one of those big boats. And my dad had sold me this Cadillac for like $2 ,000. Well, I don't know what he was thinking because I didn't have any money.
Speaker: like I don't know how to pay them back but anyway I drove this Cadillac to Toronto and there was a place for us to stay because the Saskatoon band witnessed. Are you familiar with them at all? Not off the top of my head no. Okay so they did some recordings and things like that had a few minor hits but there was a fellow there his name was Ed Clinton anyway he put us up with it so we had a room
Speaker: to stay here. Well, I don't know what I was doing there because anyway, two months later after we've been there for two months, I got a call from Lori from Winnipeg to get my, you know what, out to Winnipeg and because he had a job for me playing bass with sugar and spice. Okay. So that's when things really started to take off for me. Yeah. So you went back to Winnipeg, did that, and then you eventually made your way back to Toronto.
Speaker: That's right. Eventually got back to Toronto. So Sugar and Spice was a show band, like a cover band, show band. And then you eventually just changed it to Spice. Yeah, that's right. Well, originally they had three girls singing, the Murphy sisters. So there were three of them. By the time I joined the band, one of them had quit to become a lawyer. And then the bass player, actually he quit to become a lawyer.
Speaker: Oh, okay. We're shook and spiced. So I was filling in for that. And of course I was a lead singer. So I took that on and then
Speaker: Eventually one thing led to another and then one of the other girls decided to quit. She wasn't into it anymore. And then we started recording and things like that. So that was my first recording experience because our manager Frank Weiner had a record company, Franklin Records. And he was recording all the bands that he was booking basically.
Speaker: more or less. And so, I wrote a couple of songs and then that's where we went to Toronto and we recorded two songs there, Strawberry Wine and We Talking Woman. Both of those charted, Strawberry Wine went top 30 in Canada in 72.
Speaker: Well good and then so you did your initial recording in Winnipeg and then thought you should go to Toronto, is that right? You did some demos in Winnipeg? Yeah. Well it was the same thing again because the band was morphing because it was no longer a show band, we were doing funk and then I eventually basically took over 50 % or maybe more of the lead vocals
Speaker: And then I think the last Murphy sister had left the band at that point and replaced her. And then we went on to get booked in Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cause I was going to say, well, so you had landed in Toronto. I mean, that's, there was a thousand other bands that went to Toronto to try to find their way. And most of them, you found your way and you ended up with a record deal, doing live shows and becoming quite successful out there in a place where many others didn't.
Speaker: Yeah, so then so we were in Toronto and once again we had we played a few gigs and that all went fine but then two more of the guys were basically quitting the band spice okay yeah and and then Laurie and I the drummer we were being booked at that time by Ray Daniels Russia's manager and Ray and Vic Wilson so Ray Daniels and Vic Wilson and
Speaker: I think it was his idea to put together a Beatles cover band. At that point, we were basically starving musicians. They said, we'll fund you, we'll pay you X amount.
Speaker: a week or whatever while you get two other guys to join the band and then they'll work up this Beatles act. Low and behold, so that's what we did. We advertised somehow, I can't remember how that was,
Speaker: found two other members for the band that fit. One was a real beetle nut, which was a big blessing. And then the guitar player, he was fantastic, so Dave Moyles, and Rick Pearson, and then Florian. So we started playing, we were hit basically from the word go, like it was just 1973, I guess it was around March, April 73 that we started playing and we got a great response wherever we played.
Speaker: Well, yeah, and that would be fresh. I mean, the Beatles broke up at 70. Obviously, all the members went on to record. Wings was really popular at that time, but the Beatles music was still fresh and excellent, and the Beatles never played a lot of that stuff live anyways, and they were gone.
Speaker: And that's a good point that you make about them not playing a lot of it live. So at first, so what we did, we started with, we were dressed in the Beatles suits. We never did cut our hair into Beatles haircuts, like you see some of the cover bands now. They did that. We didn't change the way we looked, but we did dress like them.
Speaker: Yeah. And then, so that went on for, that was very successful. We traveled all up and down the eastern seaboard and played a lot of different gigs, stuff like that. And then where we really got a jump up, I will say, was when we, two of the members were, I don't know what, I can't remember the circumstances, but we basically decided that we needed some new members to play with us. Laurie and I decided this. Right. And so we interviewed some,
Speaker: new guys. And actually, we brought Malcolm Buchanan in to play keyboards before that happened. So there were five of us and he he played multi keyboards, which allowed us to do all the Sergeant Pepper stuff. And right. Yeah. Some people don't realize that. But the Beatles were a four piece band. But keyboards was an integral part of especially some of the, you know, the later stuff. So you have to have it right. And you have that orchestration. Basically, it's what what what they would do. They have everything from flutes to strings and everything like that going on there.
Speaker: Well, don't they have a church organ and let it be? They do the big middle part, right? Oh, probably. Yeah. So there's a lot of that going on. And so that really stepped up our game and we played Ontario Place in Toronto to about 16 ,000 people. Crazy. Probably the pinnacle for Liverpool. Oh, and then we actually played the 1974 Beetlefest
Speaker: in New York City, which was the first Beatlefest ever. So we played there. And unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of that. No one was bright enough to take pictures. And I've looked in archives in New York, you know, sites, but I've never come up with anything. But there are a lot of photos taken of it when we came on stage. Because this huge hall was filled with people, you know.
Speaker: they had really cool stuff like one of John Lennon's guitars was going to be given away and, you know, it was really, really neat. Anyway, that was a bit of a big time. And then the other thing that we did was that might be of interest to people that we got a gig playing the whiskey at Gogo in Los Angeles. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. So that was kind of that was a lot of fun.
Speaker: Well, and you think of it, so you're kicking around, you know, Saskatchewan, then you end up in Winnipeg, then you end up in Toronto, and then you end up doing this Beatles thing, which is a bit of a left turn, I guess you could say, right? You're like, okay, let's try that. And then the next thing you know, your tour in the States and your
Speaker: you know, playing the whiskey at Gogo. Well, I guess you toured lots. And I see here in the list, you opened for and shared the stage with lots of people like the Outlaws and Charlie Daniels and Hall and Oates. And how did all that happen? Yeah. Well, that was all our East Coast tour. So what was going on in those days, it probably still goes on now.
Speaker: is all the universities, colleges and universities, et cetera, in the States would have these, I guess, buying sessions. They would be buying bands for tours to their universities. So we would go down to places like we played in Savannah and all the college buyers would be there. And that's where you'd get bookings, basically. And that's a huge circuit. That was a great circuit to be on back then, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so that was the thing. So it was mostly the Eastern seaboard that we were playing, New York City, some stuff, and then down through Georgia and into Florida, Florida State University in Orlando. I mean, that must have been a whole different world for you. How did you absorb all that?
Speaker: Oh, well, at the time, of course it was, you know, we'd get pulled over at the border. They were looking for drugs like crazy.
Speaker: They never found any because we weren't about to carry anything across the border. That was the end of that. So those were the days in New York. It was just a different world.
Speaker: New York in 74, 75. Those dates right there, these places weren't that safe to be. There was a lot of crime. I remember coming out of our hotel at one point and the doorman said, we're about to turn left and go down. He says, oh no,
Speaker: You can go down to the corner down there, but don't go beyond that. That was what that was like. Well, I wonder about that because I asked people, it's just some culture shock because you're going from small town prairies into New York City, but then touring is like an alternate reality too because you're on and off the bus or however you're traveling, you're setting up doing another show. That becomes an alternate reality in itself. You must have been
Speaker: absorbing all this at 100 miles an hour. Yeah. So the first gig that Spice ever played in Toronto, I actually met my wife. Oh, nice. The first gig.
Speaker: So I wasn't in town long before I got snapped up. There you go. Perfect. It worked out great. We're still very happily married all these years later. So it was wonderful. But yeah, so that was that. And then she actually, her name is Janine, and she would travel with me sometimes. She'd travel in the car with the band because that's just the way we were. We were so tight.
Speaker: We're about to leave one or the other at home while we're out doing things and so that was kind of cool. Yeah but you know I remember driving through Baltimore for instance on the way down. We didn't play in Baltimore but
Speaker: It was all these burnt out buildings downtown and it was like, oh, it was just a totally different world. And actually, one more quick story and it all let you ask me another question. When I was with Sugar and Spice, or probably Spice at that time, we were booked into Chicago, into a club in Chicago on Rush Street, coincidentally. Anyway, and it was called the Rush Up.
Speaker: And this bar was upstairs and I don't know how we ever got booked in here because it was just really a terrible place to play. It didn't start, the band didn't start playing till like 10 o 'clock at night and you played till 2 in the morning. Oh yeah, 10 to 10 is the old frozen hours. Yeah, speaking of rough places, so our roadies had pulled into the parking lot next door and no sooner had they pulled in to
Speaker: you know, bring our equipment in something you guys, big car pulls up. This is like, you know, out of the gangster movies, car pulls up says you got you guys parking here. Yeah, well, okay, well, you're gonna have to give us $50. You know, that was it. Yeah. Wow. And and they were the kind of guys that you didn't say no to. Yeah, in the 50 bucks. That's your Yeah. And there was that that went on and on and on. The drummer not Lori and I went walking downtown one day,
Speaker: and in Chicago on the main street there. And we were walking along, walking along, all of a sudden we got down this area and we started noticing that, you know, it was a little, getting a little dark. It was getting around 4 .30 or 5 o 'clock and we went into this one shop and they basically told us to get out of there. Go back where you came from. So, yeah, tough, you know, too bad. So how long did you tour the States with that band, with Liverpool?
Speaker: Well, with Liverpool, I guess we started in 1974. It would have run probably three or four years. I mean, on and off. Also played in Vancouver. Okay. So, actually Janine was just reminding me. So, we played in Vancouver at a club called Oil Can Harry's.
Speaker: Yeah, that was a very famous club. No, that's long gone and there was a few Izzy's and oil can Harry's and there was a few the cave. There was a few clubs downtown, but oil can Harry's was one of the famous ones, one of the well known. Okay. Yeah, we played there a few times. Okay.
Speaker: We were really well received there in action and then actually we played the Commodore ballroom. Yeah, that's still going. Of course, but I oil can Harry's in those clubs were a little before my time. I got rid of playing professionally till after the mid 70s, probably 77. But I have to ask you about genres because some.
Speaker: One of the things that I always talk to the musicians about, especially the grew up in that time is we had so many different genres and influences and stuff. And of course, the Beatles was huge. So that was a natural one. But you have quite a few. You must have been influenced by just about everything, pop, rock and country and even worship music. You have some on there and folk and singer songwriter. Like, how did you how did you take that whole sort of genre soup, I guess you could call it and put that together? Yeah, so that yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: When I look at my catalog of stuff I've written and recorded, it's kind of like all over the place. For sure. I guess that comes because I just like a lot of different kinds of music, but probably the most, I will say, songs that I like the best
Speaker: are the ones that are probably on the first aerial album like in the middle of the night and Indispensable Thomas Hancell. I like writing stuff with sort of movements within it. So it'll be in one thing and then go into another movement and then come back to the main theme.
Speaker: type of thing. So that's what I was writing. But that's an obvious Beatles influence, right? Yeah, exactly. Beatles would do that. It'd stop in the middle of a song and go into a different feel and you go, what? Yeah, exactly. That whole
Speaker: thing like that so I was greatly influenced by the Beatles at the time but I also like you know John Mayall, Blues Breakers and things like that. There were so many I often say and we listen to Cat Stevens and you listen to Led Zeppelin and you listen to James Taylor then you listen to you know whoever else like a rock is Lynyrd Skynyrd you're influenced by everybody right which is great.
Speaker: And then so in Liverpool, you recorded the song Dolly and got some airplay on that. And that was produced by Ian Thomas, which is, you know, when I read that, I thought, okay, that's kind of a natural, because he's got the harmonies and the Beatle -esque sort of influence too, right? Yeah.
Speaker: Well, tell me about that. How was that? Well, we didn't pick him as a producer. But that came through SRO at the time, our management company. And so they had him signed at the time, I believe. And so they were looking for work for him to do. And he just had a huge hit with
Speaker: Yeah, so he'd had that and so he came in and basically polished it up and there's actually two versions of that song. We had recorded a demo at Eastern Sound in Yorkville
Speaker: yeah of that song and I actually have a copy of it and it's uh it's different um than the way it got recorded but yeah so that was just sort of the way it was right so Ian and uh yeah so Ian you know was was great and um you know I think he did a good job he certainly made it
Speaker: made the song commercial, shortened it up a bit. I actually, at the end of the one that didn't get on the record, like the demo that we did, I actually do a McCartney scream at the end of that song. Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, I was wondering about that because I had Ian on the podcast and talked to him for quite a bit about that, but he had tranquility base, so he had the America sort of harmonies and that sort of flavor. And then he painted Ladies, which was a little more sort of pop rock.
Speaker: And then I guess, just a smart, talented guy that knew what to do. But then some of the bands that I talked to, they're assigned a producer and it doesn't always work out that way. Like the record company said, these are my boys, you know, you need to go in there and produce them. And sometimes that doesn't work out. So that's why I was asking you about that. If you have an assigned producer, that it works out if you get along with him and you like his flavor, but if you don't, then it can be a problem.
Speaker: Yeah. I have to say though, because I know Ian really well. Then he came back to produce our maneuvers album, the aerial afterwards. Very good. Well, cool. He had some success with Dolly. I guess it seems a bit odd. It's sort of a beat -a -lesk. Like if the Beatles had stayed together, they would have put together a song similar to that. Was that the flavor you were going for and just trying to
Speaker: promote yourselves as an original Beatles kind of band? Well, I'd like to say there was a lot of forethought went into this, but I don't think there was that much. Fair enough. No, it wasn't a made to order song. My wife and I were living in an apartment and I had a player piano, not a player piano, but an old piano that I would write on.
Speaker: And so one morning she went to work and basically it took me like 40 minutes to write that song. I just, you know, wrote it and I'm sure obviously it's pretty obvious it was, you know, it was an homage to The Beatles already. Well, you're in that mindset anyways. I mean, it's a natural
Speaker: Gretchen, I was just wondering like long term because you morphed into Ariel, right? You wanted to sort of, I don't know if escape is the right word, but you wanted to move beyond the strict sort of Beatles influence, I'm assuming. Yeah, that's right. Well, and even then with that though, I remember being quite upset when we had a meeting in the management company's office and
Speaker: And they kind of announced that, well, we'd been signed to Capitol Records in the States aerial hat based on an audition that we did and the songs that we were writing. And basically, I was quite upset about the fact that we had to change our name because I was so invested in the aerial name, you know.
Speaker: and it was very popular with our fans and things like that. So that was kind of - So you changed from Liverpool to Ariel. That's right. Yeah. Okay. I got you. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I listened to the whole first album and most of the second album and stuff and it's really strong. I mean, it's excellent and the easy love, it's just great harmonies and everything. And there's so many influences like when I listened through it,
Speaker: You guys have this new album coming out, but it was really right in the fray of what was going on at that time. It was sort of new wave -ish, pop -ish, rock -ish, really good production, great bass guitar playing harmonies. I mean, just all the notes I made when I was listening to it. And then I can hear influences like 10cc and The Cars and even Little River Band. I'm hearing all these influences of beautiful layered harmonies and just really nice.
Speaker: Thanks. I like the songs because I wrote most of them. I have to say I like the first album.
Speaker: better just because it did have these longer songs. It wasn't quite as poppy. There were a few poppy songs in there, but some of them were still my favorites, I think. George Semkew was the one he's since passed on, but he produced that and engineered it. He had a real ear for these things and so he really helped us.
Speaker: Well, yeah, I mean, production is excellent. But then again, I always go back to the genres. It sounds like you take all of the genres that you were influenced by and bring them all together in a way that's contemporary at that time and really, you know, conducive to radio play and stuff, which you got. So, yeah, kudos, kudos to you guys for that because it's top notch. Yeah, thanks. And where did you record that?
Speaker: That was recorded now. Okay, now you've got me because my brain only works 20 years ago. I can't remember where it was recorded actually. Oh, it was recorded in Toronto? Did you go? Because a lot of bands went to England or New York or LA? No, it was up in North York in Toronto.
Speaker: Fair enough. Because I know Ian Thomas' story, he ended up recording at the CBC studio because he had a job there. So he tried to get some studio time, but you had a record company behind you then. So they wanted a real recording, like a real album from a real studio.
Speaker: it was a serious studio yeah at that time i think but when we recorded in 77 78 it was 24 tracks and yeah nice but it was all still to tape so if you you know wanted to cut something you had to cut it yeah no fair enough though that's right it was real the real deal back then all the harmonies all those layered harmonies and that they were all sung and then you bounce them down bounce them down and stuff and
Speaker: Yeah, there wasn't any pitch correction. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's the real deal. Well, and then the other thing that I noticed on some of those albums and maneuvers, that was 1980, I'm assuming, right? So 78 was the first album, 80 was the second and tears that you cry. Excellent. But you got synth, you're using keyboards in there too, like more than just piano and organ. Right. Well, yeah, exactly. So, and even back with the thing, we had a Mellotron in Liverpool.
Speaker: Okay. So Malcolm Buchanan played the Mellotron. Nice. Which is, you know, when they just first came out and I think he had a MOOC synthesizer too. Yeah, so he could play horn parts and things like that. And of course, he was still in the band for that maneuver's album. And then we had a new member, Tim White, join us. Yeah.
Speaker: for on guitar because Gary left the band at that point. Yeah. Then songs like Moments Like This, I can sure hear the cars influence. It sounded very similar to the cars, but cool guitar riff and great vocals and harmonies and all those songs. Yeah, I hear that too. Yeah. Which is totally great. He had that moments like this idea, but that was all he had.
Speaker: And so I was sent home to write the rest of the song. Oh, there you go. Well, good job, man. Well, Brian, you'll have to write the rest of this. So go home and write the rest of it. But that's not uncommon either, right? Guys come with pieces. I mean, every songwriter has 1 ,000 pieces of different songs, or a hook, or a line, or whatever, right? Yeah, exactly. And so that's how they kind of morph into something more. So you guys, how much touring did you do with Ariel?
Speaker: Well, what did we do with Ariel? Okay, well, we're on probably the biggest tour we had. Well, we played Massey Hall. Nice. So that was kind of cool. And I think it was the Australian band, Big City Boys or something.
Speaker: And I can never get this straight in my mind who they were, but we warmed up for them at Massey Hall. So that would have been a feature. And then different clubs around Toronto, like the Gasworks, you know. And then we got on a tour with Trooper, your Vancouver band. Yeah, and I know them reasonably well. I knew Smitty for many years. I've met him in 76, I think, right when they were just, they just, too, for the show had just come out.
Speaker: Okay yeah so he said well he I don't know him personally but but the other guys so that was fun and so we toured out west we played um well Calgary Edmonton and then Vancouver uh at the arenas there so they were playing to like 16 000 people at the time so yeah that was really good that was a lot of good exposure for us at the time oh cool you know unfortunately the band started to uh
Speaker: And that's when we started to fall apart. And I can't actually remember if some of the guys were just kind of giving up. And you know, so Laurie was
Speaker: about to leave, but then we morphed into a three -piece hard rock band with Laurie and a new guitar player, Ed Godlewski is his name, and then Laurie on drums, and then Laurie decided to move back to Saskatoon. So then we actually, he was living in Toronto at the time, a drummer named Danny Steeves. Have you heard of him? Well, I know him, actually. He's a friend of mine. I know him very well.
Speaker: Okay, there you go. That's good. So, Danny, a great guy. So, Ed Godlewski, I guess, knew Danny. Danny came in and then Danny and I carried on with Ariel for the next year and a half or two touring all over Canada. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I was going to ask you about that because, well, the one thing I was going to mention is so Ariel was pretty much music. So you didn't get a much music video, right? You didn't, it was just before that time.
Speaker: Yeah. No, we didn't, we don't have a video. No. Yeah. Cause I was trying to find one, but I couldn't. And then, and then what happened with the record deal, because normally you'd have, uh, I mean, you guys had some success. I mean, you had it, you know, some, a modicum of success. So you didn't have a number one hit or anything, but you certainly would have, would have got what the record company was looking for. So presumably you would have a three album or four album deal, or there would be more. What happened with the record deal?
Speaker: Yeah, I think so. Well, Capital, I guess, had signed us for two albums. And then basically that was in the early 1980s, somewhere in there. SRO dropped us. So they decided not to handle the band anymore or manage the band. And so basically went out on our own. I knew all the booking agents anyway. So I just hooked up with a couple of booking agents and got lots of work doing that.
Speaker: But it was at that point, it was kind of losing direction, if you will, and maybe just a little burnt out at that point. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's what happens. But you're thinking, well, okay, everything that you set out as far as you got the record deal, you got some radio play or touring, you must have thought, well, I've made it. I mean, this is what we wanted. So when your goal, when you started out, if you said, well, I want to fill in the blank, you were
Speaker: kind of there, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, I was, you know, obviously when I was, you know, married and basically at that point it was like, okay, do I still want to be on this? It's a pretty typical story, I think. Do I really want to be on the road anymore? And the answer was no.
Speaker: Yeah. So I've got to get on with whatever's next. And so then, and then, you know, in 1991, or 8182, and then in 1983, Janine and I had a beautiful daughter, Nicole. So that kind of solidified everything. Yep. Yep.
Speaker: there you go that well family changes as well so yeah yeah so 83 so you got a family no i i totally relate to that that was my story too i just didn't want to tour and live my life on the road or away from my family and and uh yeah you know i had a daughter born in 83 as well coincidentally so oh wow congratulations yeah it's a wonderful thing yeah yeah well exactly and then and life is more important but then you know it's funny because i often when we're reminiscing and looking back i often say to the musicians like
Speaker: The timelines are so short. There's band members shifting around and the bands are shifting and you're doing this one year and the next you're doing something else. How do you put that all together? Why do you think that is? Why people go in different directions? Everything was so short -lived.
Speaker: I mean, looking back on it, if you look at the timelines and the way the bands morphed around, and we're talking a year, two years, maybe three years, do a couple of tours, things change. Why do you think that was back then? Well, I think it's just the rigors of the road. You're playing at odd hours all the time and you have to travel. We'd go off on tours for three or four weeks across Canada, and your heart's probably really at home.
Speaker: And so while not really, it would be at home. Your heart was at home and you're out there touring and you're thinking, well, why am I doing this? And I guess the thing is, if you do hit it big, then, you know,
Speaker: then all bets are off because probably your spouse or significant other can travel with you and things like that. Or in many cases it just falls apart. I mean, we just did a three day trip and again, it becomes an alternate reality. Every day as you get up, you travel to where you got to go to, you do your sound check, you have your dinner, you do the show, then you go to sleep, then the next day you do the same thing and then you do that for an extended period of time. You're not living in the real world in a sense.
Speaker: That's right. Well, that's what I said after I basically got out of the business for a while. I had to get a real job. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, so that worked out all right. And so did you reach the level of success that you wanted? Did you achieve the goals that you thought you wanted to achieve?
Speaker: Oh, I think so because I still am. I'm driven by music. I'm still writing. I've released a couple of independent CDs.
Speaker: and singles and stuff like that. And I play in four different groups up here in the Collingwood area, so on different iterations. And then my latest thing is, and you mentioned it earlier, I joined a local church here, and it's one that they have basically, it's, you know,
Speaker: It's a mild rock form. It's the new worship things that you see at all the bigger churches, but we are a small church. Anyway, I'm a worship team leader there. And so I started learning all these worship songs that contemporary worship writers are writing. And lo and behold, then I had to get my hand in it too and I started to write them. So I've written about, I guess five songs so far and recorded them.
Speaker: Yeah, I listen to them. Actually, they're great. Yeah, very good. Oh, thanks. You know, from a performer's point of view, you know, obviously, it's goes deeper than that. But singing these songs with a group and bass and then the congregation singing along. It's fantastic. You know, no, that's great. No, I've, I've played it. I played at our church. I go to the Baptist Church in Langley, but I've played there for many years, play whatever they don't have. And
Speaker: and put on the worship team. I don't lead or write any of the songs, but I've been involved in it for years. I appreciate that and I've done it myself. I know the difference and I know the feeling, so I appreciate it. Yeah, it's a great combination, going to church and you get to play music too. What could be better than that? There you go. Well, what is it? Share your time, talent, and treasure.
Speaker: So that's what I like to put it that way too. But you've done lots of different stuff. Like you did some country songs and I listened to a couple of those like Where Will I See Love and Too Close to Your Flame. I listened to both those and they're excellent. Like great violin harmonies and melody. Good production. Yeah. And I have a whole album in the can.
Speaker: So I play with another five piece band up here. And then we play all over the place. And then another, an interesting thing, when I moved up here, I actually got invited or joined a song circle. Oh, nice.
Speaker: The Song Circle actually plays live. It's all basically free, more or less, which is fine. But it's interesting when you've been a professional musician, getting paid is always fun. Yeah. There you go. It doesn't pay that well. It's a good thing I don't rely on that for my retirement living. Yes, there you go. Anyway, I play with a five -piece band quite regularly all over the place here.
Speaker: And then I play with my own thing called Brian Meisner and friends with a violinist. I really love that. It's my solo thing, but I play with a violinist and sometimes a guitar player.
Speaker: And then what's the other one? That's it. Yeah. And the song circles can create nice moments too, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's fun. So everybody goes around the circle just, you know, okay, I want to play this song and that song. Yeah. And I've been doing that for about, oh my gosh, probably eight or nine years now here.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, very cool. So, you know, it was so funny when, uh, so about, I guess it was a couple of years ago now, my, my brother asked me, have you ever heard of this band aerial? And I said, Oh yeah. And then, and he said, well, um, so Wayne and, uh, Dan or Dan, oh, we call him Dan. Oh, Wayne and Dan are playing, playing, uh, for this, this guy, this Brian Meisner guy is doing a song forever and ever. And they sent it to me and I listened to it. It's cold. It's a harder rocking song, but that's, that's my friends.
Speaker: Well, Dano played with my brother for many years. My brother's a bass player, singer, and Dano's a drummer, of course, and Wayne's a guitar player. So they were a band. They had a band called Rimshots for many years. And my brother - That's Wayne. He played guitar parts. Yeah. Okay. He lives in Lethbridge now. He moved to Lethbridge. So that's where he's living now.
Speaker: Oh, okay. Well, the story with that song, it'll be short and sweet by the way, but I actually wrote that song when we were together in 8182 with the trio with Danny and Ed Godlowski. So I have tapes of that, the rough tape
Speaker: of it live, which actually sounds pretty good. Those guys were just amazing musicians, just crazy. And so Danny came, had this idea, he wanted to do that song, and started recording it with Wayne, and then he contacted me and said, well, you want to sing. But I totally rewrote the lyrics for it. Those aren't the original lyrics at all. The original lyrics were kind of like, but they were okay.
Speaker: Oh, good. No, it's cool. It sounds good. But again, and then the genre thing, because that's more of a heavier guitar. Dan was like a straight ahead, meat and potatoes kind of drummer, right? Oh, yeah. He plays a mean kit, that fellow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I saw him lots because he played with my brother, so we used to go and see him all the time. Yeah, yeah. He's a great drummer.
Speaker: Yeah. So how do you see the music scene now? You know, I usually ask like, like one of the questions that I like to ask my guests is how much of what you did was a function of the time. Like you did the Beatles thing and then you, you got a record deal when there was still some money being splashed around and there was still something to be said about getting a record deal. How much of that was a function of the time? Oh, uh,
Speaker: Well, I would say a lot, you know, because just, you know, and as you mentioned earlier, you know, things just keep pushing you along, right? Being in the right place at the right time, you know, and, you know, I didn't become a superstar, but that's okay. I was never, you know, Rush became very, very successful. They were kind of our,
Speaker: our stable mates, if you will, with SRO, et cetera. And we were making a lot of money and they weren't making anything. But of course, the rest is history, but they were very,
Speaker: focused on what they were doing and so were we, but it was a circumstance. Go to Winnipeg, get a job, come back to Toronto. All of a sudden, we're in this place where we become Liverpool and it's just all... Yeah.
Speaker: Well, you got to want it really bad, right? You got to want it really at the expense of everything else, like the Brian Adams story or the Rush story. I mean, they toured and toured and toured. I remember reading about them. They had two crew and the three band members, and they'd go and do whatever, and they just really, really wanted it really bad. Yeah, exactly. That they were very focused on what they were doing. Yeah. But even them, I'm actually reading Geddy Lee's book right now. Okay.
Speaker: a friend of mine in the song circle actually read it and there's a note in there about Liverpool, a short little sentence or two about us making lots of money and that helping the whole thing there at the time, which was kind of nice. Anyway, then they took off and became really successful, but it didn't bother me that they were successful and we weren't that successful. We never got into my skin, because I liked my life.
Speaker: Yes, that's very happily married. I think if you're happy with yourself, that has to be the big thing here. Well, I think that's totally right because we always used to talk about making it, we're going to make it. But what does that mean? You redefine what that means because some people made it in the sense that we used to say, but they paid a huge price for that and they're on their marriage and their kids don't talk to them.
Speaker: you know, whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, it's tough. So what about songwriting? Do you think there could ever be another Beatles that comes out and just changes the world? No, probably not. The interesting question about the songwriting is, from my musical point of view, the Beatles always seem so logical. Their chord changes and everything.
Speaker: Now they're all over the place because the earlier stuff was really straightforward. But as they grew, as they went along, it became much more complex. But I think the reason those songs resonate with people is that they are
Speaker: extremely melodic. Yes, of course. You know, I was just singing a song last night actually at the piano in our home here called Here, There, and Everywhere. And it just has a beautiful melody. And it's just crazy. And there's so many different songs like that that they have. And it seems very logical to my mind when I listen to them.
Speaker: Well, just the impact they had, I think was a function of the time, but it's also, there was a radio contest one time that said who's better, the Beatles or the Stones, right? And of course I called in, but I mean, the melodies that emerged from the Beatles, I'm not sure that could ever be matched. You know, yeah, they had some interesting corn changes. They used the pivot chords and change keys and stuff in a way that a lot of pop bands hadn't done up to that point. The jazz guys had, but the melodies emerged from those guys is really,
Speaker: I can't ever see that being duplicated on the scale that they did it? No. I totally agree. What about AI then? What do you think? Some guys are using AI to write melodies and lyrics and stuff now. How do you think that's going to flesh out?
Speaker: Oh, well, yeah. Yeah, that's kind of scary, isn't it? Yeah, a little bit. That's part of the whole internet thing right now. So it's tough to predict anything.
Speaker: to do with that. Well, I'm old school, we're old school, so I just did an album with Mike Fraser and he's sort of on the same page. I'm just going to write it out old school at this point. But if you were 25 years old, you don't even need any musical talent now. You can have the AI can write a melody, they can write lyrics, you can sing off key and it'll correct it. And if people like the song, then they like the song.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't know if there's any good answer to this question. We can't predict the future, but I'm just saying from a songwriter's perspective, if AI can scour the internet and find all the known melodies and then write unique melodies, and then you can do mixed parameters of, say, a Steely Dan album.
Speaker: Seriously, we're going from the horse and buggy to a jet plane here in about a few years. What I find challenging when I'm writing a song, any song really, I have to do a lot of research because I'll write a whole bunch of lyrics with a main theme probably, but then I have to go over it and it takes me months
Speaker: to get the right words in the right place, you know, just with the story there. But that doesn't always fit with the melodic line or the chord change or the, you know, and then I'll write it all out and it'll say, okay.
Speaker: I can make that shorter. I need another word in here because I want the melody to sound like this with the vowels in the right places and all that stuff. So it takes me months to write most songs. But that's part of the fun. To me, that's a challenge, right?
Speaker: It's like, okay, I've got this now, but is it as good as it can be? That takes a long time to do properly. The other conversation I've had with people is about singer -songwriters, Arlo Guthrie guys that are just troubadours and they're just writing about their life, Bob Dylan, whoever, just writing about things they observe and things they experience.
Speaker: And then you've got the professional songwriters who are just the cut it rapid freeze it guys, you know, that just whatever hook or line we think is going to resonate with people. That's what we're going to put out. We'll write songs for other people. And it's more of a songwriting factory, I guess, is a way to win it. And you sound like you're more on the singer songwriter right from the heart kind of a guy.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I have to be. That's just the way you do. So you're writing from personal, well, obviously the worship music is, you know, I often ask people, is there some kind of, you know, message in your music, like a political social message or, you know, a Christian message in the worship tunes. The country tunes are usually family values and patriotism and those kinds of things. What kind of messages do you infuse into your songs? Love lost.
Speaker: Well, over the time, especially on my two independent CDs, a lot of it's about love. But then you're going to find love, that one that you refer to, where will I see love?
Speaker: the country too. That's not reality at all. That song, I remember I probably wrote really quickly and I have no idea where it comes. There's another typical answer. I have no idea where these songs come from. And it's true. I just have no idea. You hear somebody say something and whoa, that's cool. And I'm always listening for that.
Speaker: turn of a phrase or something that I'll like. But then I was just looking at my songs that I've, my whole songbook that I wrote probably in the 70s, most of these songs never made the grade. There's tons of stuff I write all the time that don't make the grade. They fall apart or it's not strong enough or it doesn't resonate with me once I play it a few times.
Speaker: Well, I guess, and again, getting back to the sentiments too, or the message that you're just trying to find things that do resonate with people, right? Things that they get a feeling that they can go, yeah, I felt that before. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the ones that you, you know, as you say, from personal experience, although I have to put a caveat in there, as I said, with the love songs and stuff like that, or love gone bad, some of them are not personal experiences.
Speaker: Fair enough, but we've all had friends who feel the feeling through our friends. Yeah, right. Anyway, but it's interesting. I do bounce around a lot from genre to genre. You're right. Christmas tunes and the country tunes and then the heavier. No, I love it. I mean, I'm
Speaker: I think it's great because again, you're bringing together all those influences that you had and the band like Ariel came right down the middle with the cars, LRB, 10CC, you got all these flavors and influences and you're right there, you're right in the middle of what's going on. What was the business stuff like for you? Did you ever get mistreated or taken advantage of? Anything go sideways on you? No. Actually, Liverpool was great because
Speaker: The management company, we had all our books in order and all this stuff and everything was taken care of and we had even two weeks holidays in the summer. Nice.
Speaker: And so that was all there. And so it was great. So I can't complain about any of that. I can't remember any instances where we're, you know. Well, good for you because I've talked to lots of people and man, some of the guys got really fleeced and taken advantage of. So good for you. That's a drag.
Speaker: Yeah, good for you that you avoided all that. And then did you avoid the drugs and booze phase? Did you Oh, yeah. No, I've never been big. And you know, I've had joint, I suppose, but not not it's legal. Who wants to smoke it?
Speaker: But a lot of guys got caught up. As you know, we have a lot of friends who got caught up in all that crap and that really affected their career as well. Yeah, no, nothing like that. I'm not easily influenced in that direction.
Speaker: And what about the US? You had a US record deal. Did you ever think of moving down there? I mean, you toured lots and stuff. Could you have done something different? You know, I often ask my guests, what would you do differently? And some of them say nothing and others say lots of things. But did you ever think about moving to the States?
Speaker: Yeah, well, actually, my wife and I talk about this every once in a while, because the one thing that did come up was we had an offer, Liverpool had an offer to go and play in Las Vegas. But within the band, there was a member or two, which I won't name, but they didn't want to do it. And I'm not too sure that I wanted to do it. But in retrospect, I'm glad that we didn't, because that opens up a whole other lifestyle.
Speaker: you know, may or may not have been good. Now, hey, it could have been fantastic and everything could have turned out well, but that's hindsight. Yeah, I've had the same sort of offers about Vegas. I don't want to live in Vegas. I like where I live and I'm not moving from where I live.
Speaker: We had an offer to go to Macaw one time, the big Chinese gambling centre as well for three months. But I just didn't want to go there for three months. It just wasn't something that interested me. So I guess, did you do any offshore? Did you do any international touring? Did you get off of the continent and play anywhere else? No, we never went to England or anything like that.
Speaker: never in the cards. I don't know why with Liverpool in particular, of course. Yeah, right there. That would have been a hit there. I often ask people if they're happy because really, the point you made earlier, what is it you can have any level of success you want if you look at Brad Delp from Boston who killed himself at 55 and said he's just a lonely, dejected person.
Speaker: like you had you were right at the very top and one of the top bands ever in the world and you take your own life because you're so miserable and unhappy yeah so yeah and the pressure can get to be too much i guess but different personalities have that you know
Speaker: That's the saying there, but for the grace of God go I, right? I guess I just think that this whole idea of sacrificing everything for this goal, you keep your eyes on the prize, and go and get the prize. One saying I heard years ago that always made sense to me was, I wouldn't have tried so hard to get to the top if I had realized there's nothing there. That's a good one.
Speaker: You know, and I thought that's very true because some of these people, they get to where they think they want to be and they realize their relationships and their life and their personal comfort is all sacrificed in some serious way. Yeah. So yeah, that's why I think, you know, the idea of making it or being a successful person, I always wanted to have the balance and have a balanced life and be happy. So that's why I ask at the end, are you happy? And it sounds like you certainly are. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: And what's left for you to do? What are you still recording and writing and doing your thing? Oh yeah. I'm a digital studio in my basement of our home here. Nice. So I'm writing and recording all the time. Good for you. I play every day. I just play at the piano and guitar. And I'm playing three gigs this weekend. So I'm rehearsing this afternoon. After here, I have to go to rehearse. So what are those gigs? What are you playing for that?
Speaker: Oh, it's at Ski Hill. Ski group, they just love dancing and stuff like that. Yeah, good for you. We have a local in Clarksburg here, actually, we have a local hall. Yeah. And I'm playing with the song circle there. Good. And I'm also playing back at the same place, actually, with a different band. Nice. Yeah. Well, that's good, man.
Speaker: A different song list going for this weekend. Beautiful. I'm happy. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all this stuff with me. It makes me happy that you're still playing, you had your success, you're a happy guy. It's a really nice story and I'm really glad that you shared it with everybody. I'm sure our listeners are going to be interested as well. Yeah. Thanks, Dan.
Speaker: Many thanks to my guest, Brian Meisner, for being part of the Liner Notes podcast and sharing some insights from his many musical adventures and accomplishments. More information is available at brianmeisner .com. And also he's active on Facebook, Brian Meisner, singer, songwriter. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and invite you to subscribe to it and share it on social media so others can enjoy it as well. And we also invite you to listen to Dusty Discs Radio Tuesdays and Thursdays to hear music from the Canadian artists you're hearing on this show. So until next time, I'm Dan.
