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Veganuary 2026: Nazia's Vegan Journey (Originally released 2024)
96 Plays6 days ago
This January we are re-releasing all eighteen of our 'Going Vegan' series, to shine a spotlight on the huge variety of everyday normal folk who choose to avoid animal expoitation through choosing a vegan lifestyle.
In today's rerun, we hear from occasional Enough of the Falafel guest Nazia.
For the original shownotes for this episode, visit Episode 19 directly https://zencastr.com/z/HNkWQLjG
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights, as well as picking a 'timeless' vegan or animal rights issue, and discussing it in more depth.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Nazia & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Focus
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there, this is Anthony from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. We're a group of just everyday vegans who for the last two and a half years or so have been releasing two podcasts a week bringing you vegan and animal rights news as well as philosophical discussions.
Veganuary 2026 Special Episodes
00:00:17
Speaker
And many of the contributors on the show have released a special episode in the past where they've talked about their journey of going vegan. And for Veganuary 2026, we are re-releasing all of those episodes. And the episode you're about to listen to now is one of those. So it's been recorded at some point in the last three years and it features one of our contributors. We really hope you enjoy it and that you continue to join for other episodes that we release over the course of 2026.
Narsia's Vegan Journey Begins
00:00:55
Speaker
Narsia, thank you so much for giving us your time today. Really looking forward to learning about all things vegan journey with you. And maybe if you want to take us back to the start or even before the start, like were there some initial seeds of sprinklings of veganism before it it became something that properly registered with you? Like what's the earliest beginnings you can remember?
00:01:20
Speaker
ah Yeah, i'm I'm happy to talk about this actually. So ah let's go right to the very beginning, um which would be the first ever vegan I met. It was when I was a teenager and it was my first sort of teenage boyfriend. No, I was his teenage first girlfriend. He wasn't my first boyfriend, but he was vegan.
00:01:43
Speaker
and But back then I didn't really understand what vegan was. I don't think I was even vegetarian at that point. But this was a very long time ago. This was over 20 years ago.
00:01:56
Speaker
so you can imagine what the world was like then. and You didn't really... hear about vegans very often. But then not long after dating him, i went vegetarian.
Teenage Vegetarianism Challenges
00:02:07
Speaker
And that was primarily because of my sister. and She's been vegetarian since the age of 12. So I think it was a combination of being inspired by her, but also part of my teenage rebellion of like, not wanting to do what my parents thought were was best for me. And yeah, so I was vegetarian from around the age of 15. So can I interrupt and ask? You say it was because of your sister, but like what what exactly was the the motivation there? Like you weren't just doing it to to copy her, presumably.
00:02:40
Speaker
um No, like she always, so you know, she's always said that she's vegetarian because she loves the animals. And like she went vegetarian because she learned where her food was coming from. um And I think like the cognitive dissonance started breaking down in me a little bit. Yeah, I mean, it's it's hard to say what i was thinking at that point. I was like 15 years old and you're going through all sorts at that point. But yeah, so that's when I went vegetarian and my family, they weren't happy about it at all.
00:03:11
Speaker
and So just to give some background, I'm from a Bengali family and meat and fish is like really heavy in the culture there. Growing up, I always ate home cooked meals.
00:03:23
Speaker
We never ate at restaurants. So, you know, i was eating healthily, but, and it was home cooked meals, but it was very meat and fish
American Influence and Family Acceptance
00:03:30
Speaker
based. So for my mum, she wasn't happy about that because she was already cooking for a family with like four kids and you know my dad so she's like now I have to cook more like ah another dish for you know for you kind of thing and actually I've just remembered the other thing that triggered my desire to become vegetarian was We went to America to visit my aunt and she cooked this amazing vegetable curry with like vegetables I'd never eaten before. And it was like things that you have now. It's like just normal food, but it's like broccoli and mushrooms. and like But back then growing up, I didn't have a lot of variety of vegetables. So my aunt made this amazing vegetable curry and I was like...
00:04:11
Speaker
mum, you don't need to cook meat anymore. Just cook me this. I'll happily eat this for the rest of my life. um So that was that also helped as well. So yeah, so I was vegetarian from the age of 15. And then in about 2009, I met another then boyfriend at that time.
Considering Veganism
00:04:29
Speaker
And he was eating meat, but he was like, ah you know, I eat ethically sourced meat I'm doing air quotes um ethically sourced meat and organic meat and all that stuff and I remember at the time was saying to him I think I want to go vegan and he was like why I thought i just feel like something in me is telling me but that's a logical step and I didn't know anything about the dairy industry i didn't know like I just felt like
00:04:58
Speaker
If I'm not eating animals, why am I eating other products from animals? And he at the time, he was like, oh, that's a bit extreme, isn't it? Because he said that and I didn't want to like put him off. Stupid me. thought, okay, I won't go vegan. And then um a few months into us dating, or was it a year of us dating, he emailed me while I was on holiday. And he was like, when you come back, do you want to try going vegan together? hello And i was like, oh, that's a bit extreme.
00:05:29
Speaker
ah So we both like transitioned together. so where did that come from then? Because like he's he's done a he's done a big U-turn there. Yeah. So he had a friend at the time who's um Buddhist. And I think he got influenced by his friend to lead because he was quite ah i don't want to use the word hippie.
00:05:52
Speaker
But he was, you know, a bit of a hippie. without I don't know how to say it, but he was just that kind of person. I think this friend of his who um he was working quite closely with at the time, who was Buddhist, influenced him. And so he was ready to make that transition. So we transitioned together and we did it gradually. but We cut out one ingredient at a time yeah instead of going full cold turkey. So i think the first thing I gave up was probably cheese or was it it cheese one week? Then it was like chocolate.
00:06:25
Speaker
Then it was eggs. So it was just one, one thing per week, yes just phasing out.
Transition to Veganism
00:06:31
Speaker
And funnily enough, my mum by that point she wasn't bothered that I went vegan because she was like well you're already not eating animals so yeah like it didn't really make a difference to her and actually she noticed how giving up dairy benefited my health because I used to I get eczema every summer but when I was younger and and when I was having dairy it would be like a really bad eczema I'd have it all over my face my neck my arms but as soon as I gave up dairy it reduced drastically
00:07:02
Speaker
yeah and so I still get the eczema but it's like the size of a penny the patch that I'd get so it's really manageable whereas before it would be just all over me every summer so my mum saw okay that's a clear indication that I'm better off not having dairy and eggs um yeah so that was god that's the beginning but that's that's great i'm i'm getting a real picture here you're you're painting it really nice and vividly so can i ask then at the point at which that's been proposed to you as uh let's let's consider doing this let's let's look at this transition how are you feeling then obviously you've you've gone through with it but is there some trepidation are there some things that you're worried about are there things that you're excited about um
00:07:50
Speaker
I don't think I had any trepidations. um Obviously at the time, first boyfriend from when I was a teenager who was vegan, at that point he was the only vegan and him and his family, they were the only vegans I knew. so I didn't know any other vegans. And to my friends, it was quite an adjustment, um especially like eating out and going to each other's houses and cooking meals. But thankfully, they were all like not supportive, but, you know, they'd make an effort to cook something vegan um or like they had no issues with us going to a restaurant where like there had to be a vegan option for me. So thankfully, it was OK.
00:08:33
Speaker
And then I started slowly learning about the dairy industry and that kind of cemented my gut feeling and like me and my then boyfriends, we learned a lot more about you know all the different forms of animal abuse.
00:08:50
Speaker
And you know along the way, I still made mistakes. Like I might have visited a zoo without realizing. you know the I think as time goes on, you kind of realize, you don't have to realize everything in one go.
00:09:07
Speaker
You don't have to know the ins and outs of every industry one go. And you know you're gonna make mistakes along the way. And arguably learning all at once could be so overwhelming that yeah could it could almost paralyze you. Yeah, especially when you realize how much animal cruelty and animal but exploitation is ingrained in so many aspects of our lives, you know, from clothes to entertainment to you know, even toiletries and makeup, you know, animal testing and all that stuff. So... Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask now, Zia, like that, I'm hearing a difference between that transition towards veganism compared to when you decided to become vegetarian. it's sounding like the environment that you're in and the stage of life perhaps that you're in when you're deciding to transition towards veganism is a lot more supportive or or conducive to that being successful. it if It felt like from what you've said that um transitioning to become vegetarian, there were maybe more barriers in place.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think- Is that down to your age? I think, yeah, it's two things. I think it's down to my age because when I went vegetarian, I was a teenager and everyone hoped that it would be a phase.
00:10:33
Speaker
um And also because i'm so I was still a minor, you know, I like, I was still under my parents' care. um Whereas when I went vegan, I was in my early twenties.
00:10:47
Speaker
um And i think if it was, But even if I'd gone vegan at the age of 15, that would have still been a shock. But I think it's like the whole meat as a food thing. That's, you know, everyone focuses on that so much. yeah um So, you know, i think that was a shock for people, especially in my family. Yeah.
00:11:11
Speaker
But yeah, by the time I went vegan, I was older. um People trusted me to make my own decisions. um And i think having um the boyfriend at that time, having someone to do it with was also quite helpful.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yes. Yes, I was in a similar position and I can't imagine, I mean, I'd like to think that I would i would be able to be vegan all by myself, but um yeah gosh, I can't, this is certainly a 22 year old me or however old I was doing it by myself. It now it just wouldn't have happened. It would wasn't brave enough, unfortunately. It can it can really help, can't it?
00:11:53
Speaker
Yeah. if If nothing else, it gives you another vegan to to talk to. Yeah, exactly. So that that's one thing that's helping is having somebody to it to accompany you. What were the other sort of standout things that that helped you? Either big big things in terms of people and attitudes and things like that, or just tiny little, oh, this one ingredient or this one go-to place to eat. Like what were the the main helpers?
00:12:19
Speaker
I think it was the little things like... learning about what vegan products are available.
Joy of Vegan Cooking
00:12:27
Speaker
you know, 2009, 2010, I like, I think veganism in the UK wasn't as big as it is now. Like it seems to have skyrocketed massively in the last few years. But back then, know, it was still quite limited. I think, you know, learning about what was available made it more interesting. And actually, know, at that point, I took an interest in cooking more.
00:12:56
Speaker
And I think that helps because then, you know, once you know how to make vegan dishes, know, it just becomes so much easier. And even like with my partner um now, so he's not vegan, but we eat vegan at home. And he was like, before we got to get, we moved in together, he was living the bachelor life of eating lazy meals. But now since he's known me, he's learned such a variety of different dishes.
00:13:22
Speaker
And they don't have to be complicated and they don't have to have like fake meats. It can just have a variety of vegetables and spices. You know, it can be as simple as that. And yeah it's like, yeah. So once, you know, having an interest in cooking makes a massive difference because then you want to try and veganize things or like try something new. yeah Come on. Tell us some things that you've veganized.
00:13:47
Speaker
um I'll go the French version because that's more fun. um so And actually, like my partner, he's... he's really taken an interest in trying to veganize French dishes. So more recently, he's made a creamy mushroom pasta dish with vegan lardons, which is like, ah ah bad obviously also coming from a Muslim background, I'm not Muslim, but my family are. So I've never had like pig meat before. And now there's like vegan bacon and vegan ham and vegan lardons. So, yeah, he made this like pasta dish with, um you know, just some soy cream, um mushrooms. What else was there? There was some like vegan chicken pieces and vegan lardons. was so delicious. um And we've done things like vegan croque monsieur, which is, ah it's a toasty. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He hates me calling it that. But we've done vegan croque monsieur with the lovey ham slices. um And every Christmas now we have vegan raclette because you can get vegan raclette cheese. Yeah, so what else have I done? And I've done like veganized chicken curries but using jackfruit instead. um So it's just so easy. You just have to swap out a few ingredients and the flavor's still there.
00:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, ah yeah, absolutely. So that that sounds to me like a really nice positive surprise opportunity that has come along through this this transition in your lifestyle. what What other things would you not have foreseen beforehand?
00:15:29
Speaker
Pleasant surprises or maybe not so pleasant surprises? I think... Good question, actually. um Let's focus on the positives. No, some of the pleasant surprises, finding eventually finding a vegan community.
Vegan Community Support
00:15:44
Speaker
And i have to thank the vegan runners for that.
00:15:48
Speaker
Like as soon as I found out about vegan runners, then my, the amount of vegans that I knew like, it just, the numbers grew. and I would echo that, yeah. Until then, i still didn't know many vegans, but I think like now the internet with the internet, it's so easy to meet other vegans and living in London, especially, you're probably going to walk past an X number of vegans now anyway, because there's so many of us. But for example... yeah, like me meeting vegan runners and becoming part of that running club. It's quite nice to find a community of people that share the same values as you, which can be quite difficult, especially if like your usual circle of friends and family still haven't, you know, there's people that still haven't transitioned and they still might have certain like
00:16:42
Speaker
closed-minded thoughts about your lifestyle so it's really nice being able to just like meet so many other people and just feel a bit more assured that you're doing the right thing yeah and and to learn from each other yes yes something I found with vegan runners particularly helpful was that there was a focus for your activity and focus for your conversations in that I'd I'd gone to go to vegan meetups and vegan picnics and things like that in my local community and always bottled it at the last minute because I just thought i'm not going to know what to talk about whereas it is you know it doesn't have to be running but if it's it's yes we're all vegan but also here's what we're going to be doing we're going to be playing board games or we're going to be going for a run or we're handing out leaflets just having like something to guide things because actually just because you're vegan it doesn't mean you're going to be exactly the same as somebody does it like though you've got that one thing in common yeah yeah no definitely um and like for example with the running club you know it's not just about the veganism it's about being active as well and Wearing the vegan runner's vest at a park run actually led me to so many open conversations with other people who were interested in veganism. Or like I'd be doing some horrible cross-country race for people. as an example and some elite runner would just be whooshing past me and he'd be like yeah i went vegan last year it's the best decision I've ever made and he'd be gone before I could even say anything but like just in races having people coming up to me and saying you know like it's the best thing that they've ever done um so it's like even if you don't know them on a personal level there's always that camaraderie in races when you know
00:18:36
Speaker
like each of you is vegan. So that's been really nice. And obviously like the people that are interested in becoming vegan and they can approach you at a park run because everyone's friendly at park run. So like they feel so that they can have that conversation without any judgment.
00:18:52
Speaker
But I mean, there's been a couple of occasions, not very often, where even at races, someone might make a ah quite a narrow minded comment. Like ah there was one race It was like a 24-hour relay. And while I was doing my lap, someone shouted, oh, you should eat some real food or something like that. and I was like, well, i kind of do I eat fruit and veg.
00:19:20
Speaker
People put think they're so funny with these things, don't they? It's like, it's, and I mean, they're not to, well, they they could perhaps work it out if they thought about it, but they're not to know how many times we've heard the same joke. But to them, it's the most original witty thing and they've just come up with it and they're so proud.
00:19:38
Speaker
Bless. Yeah. Bless. so I'm interested, Nazia, if you don't mind me asking, like what have been the negative surprises? I think it's, I think it's important we talk about these things.
00:19:49
Speaker
if you're happy to, that is Yeah, I need to think of them now.
Raising a Vegan Child
00:19:53
Speaker
don't I don't think I store them in my memory. No, I think... um So obviously, those narrow-minded comments in, like, during races, I think, and this is quite a worry for a lot of vegans, understandably, is when it comes to dealing with healthcare care professionals. For example, you know, speaking to a doctor, and some people might be too scared to tell their doctor that they're vegan, because a lot of doctors...
00:20:17
Speaker
um hopefully it's it's better now but at least back then a lot of doctors probably weren't knowledgeable enough when it came to nutrition so yeah so I think like dealing with some healthcare professionals when you do tell them that you're vegan they seem to like think that you're doing harm to yourself and you're going to be malnourished. I think I've only had that come up once. when Since becoming a parent, there's a lot of judgment still about choosing to raise your child vegan. and Thankfully, like my ah midwife, she knows I'm vegan. and She's not made any comments at all. like she's she She trusts me, but...
00:20:58
Speaker
You know, if you speak to some parents and they're like, oh, how can you force your child to be vegan? And it's like, well, you're forcing your child to eat meat when when they grow up and they might understand where that meat is coming from. They might not be happy with that. And, you know, what are you going to do Are you going to force them to continue eating meat or are you going to respect how they feel about it? So, you know, I'd rather raise my child vegan. And let her make that choice when she's old enough to understand what her choice is, the consequences of her choices.
00:21:32
Speaker
um So yeah, there's, you know, there's a bit of backlash around that. So I'm a bit, I do still feel a bit, I don't say it straight away, like but I'm raising, unless someone asks me directly, then I'll say, yes, she's vegan. yeah um And I think there's that worry about like when she does eventually go into childcare, especially in France where veganism is still not, look you know they're still very closed-minded.
00:22:01
Speaker
And yeah, like i'm um'm I am anxious about putting her in childcare and trusting whoever's taking care of her will respect that vegan lifestyle or will they try and secretly feed her meat and dairy and you know even like some of the like my uh partner's friends like their kids you know kids are so open it's conversation I've had so many kids asking me why are you vegan and I'm going to tell them the truth and some parents aren't happy about that yeah yeah it's it's really awkward that actually isn't it I've um I've given about three different guides, girl
Educating Children on Veganism
00:22:45
Speaker
guides groups. So um for listeners who are not aware, sort of groups of, I don't know, maybe 20 children. In this case, they're they're all girls between the age of, I don't know, 11 and 13, who invited me to give a talk to them about veganism. And it was was really difficult because although I'd been invited to give the talk although all the parents and carers have consented to that conversation happening I was still really on edge of like oh my goodness I i mustn't make it seem like I'm trying to indoctrinate them but then at the same time I'm thinking well surely my job here is to advocate on behalf of animals so I've ah yeah like got to I've got to tell the truth but um yeah real fine line to to tread isn't it Yeah, yeah. Especially when, you know, in my case, the parents haven't consented. Like this child has just come up to me and is like, why don't you drink cow's milk? Why don't you have ice cream?
00:23:39
Speaker
Well, I do have ice cream. it It's just not made of cow's milk. The child has consented. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And like i think you know the parents, if they're there, they don't feel comfortable with that conversation because then they've got to have that conversation with their child when I'm not there. So that's been another...
00:24:00
Speaker
maybe it's not a negative thing it's a it's an awkward thing yeah um i yeah i think in issues of social justice i think we can give ourselves a pass um if if we are ah raising awareness with children and and getting conversations started in households about social justice issues i mean i know a lot of people don't see veganism as a social justice issue they see it as a nuisance but yeah i I was in a restaurant once that had a little sign on each table that said um ah people showing symptoms of COVID-19, racism, homophobia. and and are not welcome and ah a child said to their to their parent what what's homophobia and you saw that you saw the parent like really like cringe and like oh god dinner but then it's like that's brilliant you like come on we need to be having these conversations it's justice it's like a another version of the birds and the bees talk isn't it yeah absolutely it's gotta happen but I think um you know not just limiting to food it's like other aspects of animal exploitation so for example either a family member or a friend's child has just started horse riding lessons and you know I don't agree with horse riding I know there are some vegans that do um that's a whole other conversation but I
00:25:25
Speaker
In my stance, I don't agree with horse riding. And, you know someone will say, oh, yeah, my kids just started horse riding. And I'm like, i'm so I'm sorry, I'm not going to, like, congratulate them on this. I so i say in a nice way. I had a family member whose daughter was about to start horse riding. And the mum was like, ah I'm sorry, but she's going to start horse riding tomorrow. it's like, you don't have to apologise to me. and I'm not the one that's the victim of animal cruelty. yeah
00:25:57
Speaker
yeah Yeah, absolutely. And you know things like visiting zoos, people want to take their kids to zoos and like they don't understand why I'm against zoos and I have to kind of explain it in a without getting to too like riled up about it. Yeah.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And it's um like we were saying earlier, they're at the different pennies drop at different points sometimes for people, don't they? And I certainly was like that for for zoos for a few years of you know calling myself vegan and identifying that way and doing my very best. And i I applied for a job at one. And then I suddenly thought, oh, no, I probably shouldn't do that. and then it' And now this has led me to something you mentioned earlier and we didn't we didn't dive into. I think you said that you started removing products from your diet and then the kind of um moral or the the research or the knowledge of that industry kind of followed. Have understood that correctly? Yeah. you want to say a little bit about that? Yeah, I can't remember how it happened, but I guess because I decided to go vegan and I'd eventually cut everything out um of my diet. And then I guess because so many years ago, um and I think just through the internet, like me and my then boyfriend, we started finding videos. And like most people who discover something new, i kind of became a bit militant in my veganism. Like I just thought, you know, was one of those people sharing all the graphic videos of like what happens to chicks in the egg industry, what happens to baby cows in the dairy industry and all that stuff. um
00:27:43
Speaker
So yeah, then I started learning. So again, it was all about the food. And then like gradually I started learning about food you know, the textile industry, like wool, ah leather, all that stuff. And I think Instagram, when that came out and I started using that more, like finding accounts that shared a lot of information. So I can't remember any of the names of the accounts now, but just finding different media platforms that shared the information that i needed to know and that helped my knowledge a lot as well.
00:28:20
Speaker
and does Does that then sort of influence you in terms of the way that you are feeling about veganism for yourself or or how your identity sits? So in the early days,
00:28:32
Speaker
I was, I'd say I was one of those angry vegans. Like, it you know, i just thought, how are we living like this? You know, how is this allowed to happen? And why aren't people seeing what I'm seeing kind of thing? And, and again, this was before I met, um you know, vegan runners and like, knew any other vegans. I think I felt quite alone having this knowledge and just felt like any information I was sharing fell on deaf ears. But then as soon as I like met other vegans, I think the anger in me kind of subsided a bit because I realized actually there's a whole group of people that feel the same way. And
00:29:15
Speaker
Then veganism just skyrocketed. Like people, there' there was more information and loads of people were sharing the same things. And then all the documentaries started coming out, you know, like Earthlings, What the Health, you know, the Forks Over Knives, all the documentaries started coming out. So people, I think that helped.
00:29:37
Speaker
And I think I've gotten older as well and realized, you know, sometimes the angry approach might work but I think I've learned what works for me in terms of sharing the message and my approach now is just by leading by example um and just letting people come to me to have that conversation rather than trying to impose it on them but you know different things work for different people and thankfully over time there there are a handful of people that have gone that have told me that they've gone vegan because of me um yeah so and that includes two ex-boyfriends
00:30:22
Speaker
ah it all counts Yeah, yeah so and and that's quite encouraging. um You know, it it makes you feel a bit like heard and it just, yeah, it's it's quite a nice feeling.
Inspiring Others to Try Veganism
00:30:39
Speaker
seeing people around you and um even people who didn't go vegan necessarily from conversations that they had with me but they might have tried veganuary um and they were people that I already knew from like parkrun or other running clubs or anywhere else and they've decided to try veganuary and then they come to me it's like oh I've done veganuary and I've stuck with it and like it's the best thing I've ever done so you know that's been quite nice Yeah, yeah. Like you say, it makes you feel heard, doesn't it? And you know that it's just one or two more examples of people not causing that suffering to animals. In terms of us thinking then about people who are deciding to make that switch and that transition in their life as you did, personally, the first couple of years of being vegan myself, I know people put these numbers out there and they can't always be trusted, but I stuck to it 99% of the time. But there were occasions where I, where I didn't generally through social awkwardness, actually, rather than any practicalities or cravings or anything like that. I don't, I don't think that's ever caught me out, but it was there. They're kind of like, Oh gosh, I don't know how to say no to this person or I've not pre-warned. Yeah.
00:31:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. is Is that something that you found yourself? um So there was one occasion specifically that I remember. um So it was the second boyfriend that went vegan because of me. um We went to visit his grandmother um and she served, I can't remember what it was, but it was obviously dairy. And she was like this 90 year old woman.
00:32:17
Speaker
just like, I can't say no to a 90 year old woman who's just like, you know. um Yeah, so that was one very specific occasion. But that most of the times where I haven't been able to be vegan, which is many years ago, it was usually due to practicality. So I'd be traveling somewhere Yeah. and So for example, Southeast Asia and like I'd ask like for fried rice without eggs and lo and behold, they will serve fried rice with eggs. yeah And it's like, okay, this is a developing country. I'm not going to waste food. um and I'm not going to, this isn't the place to argue.
00:32:53
Speaker
So I was just like sitting there picking out as much as I could. And, you know, I might have consumed some egg um or whatever. So like, that's the other thing. Don't beat yourself up. It's not about being perfect. It's just about doing what you're capable of doing um at any given moment.
00:33:12
Speaker
ah And yeah, like there's always going to be socially awkward situations, but hopefully in time, with more people understanding, even non-vegans understanding, like hopefully it'll get easier and there'll be fewer social socially awkward situations for people. Yeah. well you're you're always building on your resources, aren't you? Yeah.
00:33:36
Speaker
You know, you shouldn't shouldn't be going backwards in in in that regard. Yeah. um if If you were able to kind of go back to the start and go through it all again, is there is there anything
Reflecting on the Vegan Journey
00:33:46
Speaker
you'd do differently? I think I would research... Like just understand more. and I probably also understand the nutritional side of things a bit as well because there was a period where I had become anemic and that's because I just didn't know enough about food. And it's like most kids in the UK, they don't grow up learning about nutrients and different varieties of food, whether you're vegan, vegetarian or meat eating.
00:34:14
Speaker
Like a lot of kids don't grow up understanding what they're eating and what each ingredient does. so I think in hindsight, i wish I knew more about that. um And also as vegans, you're always going to get asked about nutrition. Where do you get your protein? Where do you get your calcium?
00:34:30
Speaker
Blah, blah, blah. And it's like... back then I wish I knew I could answer that um yeah and ah and yeah just understanding more about the animal industry rather than going into it blindly and then doing everything backwards and learning about it afterwards I think um that would have helped because then you know maybe that would have helped me not make the mistakes I did back then but you know it is what it is yeah yeah absolutely certainly I mean even now I still make mistakes like and obviously living in France like a milk powder
00:35:07
Speaker
Milk powder and whey powder. And obviously, like, the ingredients are written in French. So, like, you know, we me and my partner, we bought some something the other week. And we both started eating And it was like, oh, it's got a milk powder it. was like, what? it's It was just like ah vegan. Well, it's not vegan. Vegetarian fish sticks.
00:35:28
Speaker
It's like, why does this need milk in it? Oh, God. Gosh, yeah that's so frustrating, isn't it? The weirdest one I've seen is ah pickled onions. No. Like pickled onions in vinegar. Yeah. How's milk getting into that? I will one-up you in, well, not one-up, it's probably not as bad actually, um but years ago for a family member's birthday in France, um someone got a birthday cake and it it had beef in it.
00:35:56
Speaker
So even my sister couldn't eat it. What is beef doing in a cake? Jeez. Who's a chocolate cake? What place does beef have in it? Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
I mean, that should be putting everyone off, really, shouldn't it? Yeah. So, I mean, I have to say vegan life in France is a lot harder than in London. It's getting there. It's still got a long way to go.
00:36:22
Speaker
like going shopping is absolutely fine. A lot of the supermarkets stock things, but it's just eating out. There's not a lot of... there There aren't many restaurants that do a vegan dish or vegan dishes and vegan exclusive restaurants Most of them are in Paris, but anywhere outside of Paris, they're very few and far between. But, you know, again, you don't have to, okay, like eating out, it's a bit of a luxury if you think about it. Like you can be vegan at home quite easily. And as I said earlier, it doesn't, have to be about getting fake meats. And that's ah that's another negative thing that's that I've just thought of actually. um i had one particular friend who would just complain saying, yeah, but vegans just eat like all this processed meat and soy milk has all these ingredients and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, but you don't have to have those fake meats. They might be beneficial for someone transitioning who just wants the flavors
00:37:23
Speaker
Or you just like the flavors and you don't want the cruelty, you know, like yeah you don't have to eat it if you don't want to Same with soy milk. You don't have to have soy milk. There's like a variety of plant milks. You can even make your own if you want without all the additives, you know. and yeah, like so some people just have like this view and it's like you can't say that you're eating chocolate.
00:37:47
Speaker
That's processed. Like, yeah. Yeah, quite. that that it's I'd say most most people that I know who are vegan have have encountered at least one person who who seems really hell-bent on repeatedly yeah bringing up objections. And I mean, we could go into that all day, couldn't we, as to the psychology of that and the motivation of it. But it does seem like there's it's either somebody just trying to be a pain in the ass yeah and just trying to just trying to one-up um someone or or actually they're they're trying to justify their own non-veganism yeah i think they get um quite scared that they're they might be wrong about something yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely but um it's just just one of those those skills we develop hopefully isn't it is is diplomacy or turning the other cheek or just fighting back and and like you were saying that If you just arm yourself with with all these brilliant retorts or or questions yourself, there's a ah book, it'll be out by the time we're releasing this but from Earthling Ed called Something Like How to Argue with a Meat Eater and Win Every Time. Now, i I don't particularly like the title of that, but I can certainly ah understand that the sentiment actually. yes
00:39:05
Speaker
very Very often you can feel under attack, can't you? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. It sounds like you and i came to veganism around a similar time. Yeah. How how do you feel being being a vegan in 2024? How's that different to being vegan in, you know, 2010?
00:39:21
Speaker
um I think nowadays, especially depending on where you live, if you're in the UK, it's much more socially accepted. a lot more people, whether they agree agree with it or not, they understand what veganism is. um I think more people now know vegans than like they would have um in 2010.
00:39:44
Speaker
um so I think if you're becoming a vegan, it's a lot easier to meet other vegans to help like to get that support if you need.
Easier Veganism Today
00:39:53
Speaker
There's a lot more events, there's a lot more podcasts, documentaries, there's such a wealth of information out there. And and even things like so many recipe websites and so many like Instagram chefs I like to call them so there's really no excuse now and not just the food aspect like even in terms of like fashion or toiletries and makeup there's a lot more you you see the vegan label a lot more
00:40:24
Speaker
than you do back then so I think transitioning now would be a lot easier and yeah just like what's available in the supermarkets and the restaurants there's there's really no excuse now I am I agree with all of those things I also think it's under the spotlight a lot more so I think there's probably whilst people know what veganism is yeah which they certainly do I mean the first five years of being vegan for me, like i was having to explain it to every everybody that...
00:40:55
Speaker
needed needed to know because they were feeding me or they were interested but with it being under the spotlight i think in a sense there are almost more objections now um i i i don't think i had to field as many yeah i don't know but i think there's maybe a bit more of a culture now of let's be anti-vegan let's um you know vegan destroyed by bla bla blah blah blah on youtube or whatever Agree with you there. there there is There does seem to have been a polarization. you know, i think on the one hand, veganism is in the spotlight, especially, you know, not just the animal wealth aspect, but also the climate change aspect.
00:41:37
Speaker
which is a massive, massive topic. But on the other end of the spectrum, you've got these meat eaters. And like i used to have a friend who's who who's one of those people. He's like, oh, just eat raw meat. And like and he he would post all this anti-vegan stuff and just saying how you know vegan athletes take supplements or performance enhancers and vegan food is worse for the environment and you know grass-fed beef ah is more sustainable blah blah blah and so I feel like there is especially on you know social media there's these people that are promoting a carnivore diet and like it's just it's ridiculous I just find it so laughable yeah you've you've got to worry for them really I think I yeah I i do feel sorry for them really yeah Yeah. And if you think about it, like there's been so many documentaries and so much research about plant-based diets and veganism and how they're good for the, you know, not just for the animals, but for people's health and for the environment. Let me know when the carnivore documentary comes out. Yeah.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. like it's not being endorsed by hopefully not anyway I don't want to have to chew my words later but you know there's not there's there's not enough evidence to support these ridiculous claims um and at the end of the day I think people forget that the real point of veganism is the animal's welfare yeah so the carnivores they're not coming at an animal welfare point well they might claim they are because they think you know grass fed humanely killed whatever but
00:43:20
Speaker
you know, they think they're they're arguing that it's unhealthy and it's not, you know, environmentally
Core Focus on Animal Welfare
00:43:25
Speaker
friendly. But even if you take those arguments out, at the end of the day, most vegans do just care about the animal's welfare and their right to live.
00:43:34
Speaker
and and you can't argue against that. and And that's the thing to remember, I think, if if we are under more of a spotlight now living ah a vegan, compassionate lifestyle, then then perhaps was the case today.
00:43:45
Speaker
10 years ago and we have to deal with more objections and and critiques and things like that actually I'd far I'd far rather be put in that position and fewer people consuming animals and and causing that pain and suffering than yes living a nice quiet life and not being bothered but by these objections but more people are yeah contributing to that it's so's a no-brainer isn't it yeah yeah I have a question that is going to perhaps be like, you know, when you get the the stupid vegan questions that are actually just because people don't don't know many vegans. So they kind of want to ask all their stupid questions while they're with you. um yeah I don't know that I...
00:44:26
Speaker
have spoken to someone who's vegan with parents who are Muslim and I'm interested in have they expressed an opinion on the fake bacon and things like that I was I was just thinking actually that's really interesting because some some vegans don't like fake meat because it's kind of like it's still promoting the idea of it or wearing second-hand leather or or fake leather I didn't know whether that's yeah I've expressed an opinion on um So when I was living with my parents, I don't think I even had a lot of fake meats back then. So it's only when I moved out that I started having it. But I actually don't know. mean, my partner's Muslim. um
00:45:08
Speaker
Which is weird because I'm not. But um but he's happy to have it. yes and And I think that's actually a great angle for Muslims. Like you can't eat pork or ham or whatever, but here's a substitute. You're not missing out on the, on the you know. that it tastes amazing I'm gonna admit it and even my partner who's who's French oh my god I can't tell you how many packs of la vie products we've got in the last week it's it's becoming really expensive um and that's another argument people think being vegan is expensive and it's yeah is only if you buy the processed foods but um but yeah going back to my family um
00:45:50
Speaker
so yeah I don't think that they've been given an opportunity to comment on the fake me's and like my mum so she's she passed away a few years ago actually but before that um her GP which I was know he was a terrible GP but the one the only good thing he said to her was stop having dairy so she started having soy milk and I thought okay like I think she she understood that that was better for her than Derry.
00:46:16
Speaker
So that was quite nice. But um there was one occasion where i was at a a family friend's house for dinner. And they, you know, they were all Muslim. um And one of the guys, he was just like really against the fact that I wasn't eating animals. And he said, like, oh, God put animals on on earth for us to eat. And I said, well, if you want to go down that routeo route, God also gave us free will. Yeah, yeah. to exercise you know you don't have to eat it just because it's there and I remember I shared something so there's a vegan doctor i think he's called Dr Plant Based I can't remember but he's Muslim um and he shared something about Eid and he was saying how yes meat is part of the Muslim culture but if you really drill down what the Quran is saying it's saying to protect the earth and protect
00:47:12
Speaker
the living creatures around you. And there's like various stories that I grew up um hearing about how Muhammad, Prophet Muhammad would um respect animals in certain ways. so ah So yeah, this doctor, he was saying how actually, you know, being vegan during Eid is probably more Islamic than eating meat, especially in this climate where there's so much factory farming and you're destroying the planet that you're living on kind of thing. And I remember sharing that and some relative messaged me straight away and saying, he's not a proper Muslim. What he's saying is sinful. And it's like, yeah.
00:47:52
Speaker
do you not care about the earth that you live on? um Yeah. so it's with a, from the Islamic kind side of things, it's, you know, it's not Islam. It's just people's interpretation interpretation of it. And, you know, like with any religion, when you have cultures intertwined with religious beliefs, it can become really difficult to untangle.
00:48:13
Speaker
When, My partner and I, we had ah our, ah so we're not legally married, but we had an Islamic ceremony. And I said, this is going to be a vegan ceremony.
00:48:24
Speaker
which is not heard of in the Bengali weddings. There's always at least three different meat curries. And I i spoke to the restaurant and said, everything has to be vegan.
00:48:34
Speaker
And they were like, we've never done a vegan wedding before. It's that that's fine. You can do it. Like here here are the vegetable curries. Just make sure there's no ghee in it. That's all it is. And um and my mum was joking. She was like, oh, she's going to have a fruit salad party for her wedding.
00:48:51
Speaker
And like loads of relatives. So I'm like, what are we going to eat? There's not going to be any meat. What we going eat? And actually on the wedding day, everyone was helping themselves to multiple servings of the curries that were available and like my brother he was going around saying yeah everyone's enjoying the food yeah um and the restaurant manager he was like we didn't think this would go down well but yeah like and they'd never considered offering vegetarian or vegan catering because they'd never been asked and now now they were like well now that we know it's possible yeah
00:49:28
Speaker
maybe that's something we can offer. And probably cheaper for them from an ingredients cost point of view. Exactly. And safer from a food hiding point of view and all these things. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Cultural change. It takes takes a while, doesn't it? But we're getting there, hopefully. Nazia, I'm very aware that your young girl has got to sleep and your evening time is precious. So we should probably we should probably round things off there, even though we could probably keep going for another hour. But thank you. Thank you very much indeed.
Podcast Conclusion and Future Updates
00:50:01
Speaker
No worries. That was my pleasure. It was really nice to have that conversation with you.
00:50:14
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:50:29
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:50:55
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:51:16
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:51:30
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.