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EPISODE 48 - Patriots roster cut down day! 8 wide recievers???
356 Plays7 days ago
Patriots roster cuts!
why are there 8 WRs?
Cole strange and Bradyn Swinson cut???
enjoy!
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Transcript
NFL Roster Cut Day Chaos
00:00:00
Savage Boston
All right, guys, welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast. I am your host, Scott, with Savage Boston Sports, here with Snooty tonight, and we're here with Brett. We got the OG crew ah coming in today with a really busy, really busy day.
00:00:15
Savage Boston
Huge kind of day. This is cut down day, 4 p.m. today. You had to have your initial 53-man roster. um And it was hectic, man. It was it was hectic to follow. it was really fun, entertaining day. Kind of set aside the time from, like,
00:00:29
Savage Boston
you know, 2.30 to 4.30, basically following everything, waiting on on the tweets to drop.
00:00:35
Bret
Excellent.
00:00:35
Savage Boston
Even bizarrely, the Patriots official media account put out the wrong graphic first, which was strange. Like totally wrong. And then
Patriots' Roster Decisions
00:00:45
Savage Boston
they sent out the right graphic five minutes later. i don't know what they're playing with that. i don't know if there was just like a just human error, which is which is very possible.
00:00:54
Savage Boston
um But yeah, I guess, you know, I'll kick it off with the 53. You know, we'll get into all of it, obviously. Why don't you give me first, Snooty, we'll start with you. Just give me your initial thoughts on how you thought the day went and how it kind of everything came together for 4 p.m.
00:01:11
Snooty
For me, it went largely as expected. um I think think I was like 51 or 53 or something. I did not see them keeping eight wide receivers.
00:01:21
Savage Boston
It's ridiculous.
00:01:21
Snooty
i thought Bourne was going to go on the IR to start the year. Tavai, I expected to start on the IR. um I mean, eight's kind of silly. I had... um
00:01:34
Snooty
I had everybody else making it, but you know I think overall it's it's definitely the initial 53 because there's going to be at least three or four guys. Caden Wallace I don't think is long for this roster.
00:01:45
Snooty
I think if anybody loses a safety somewhere, Duggar won't be long for this lot for this roster. um I'm happy Jennings made it. I think the biggest surprise to me was Swinson getting cut. Fifth-round pick, rookie.
00:01:59
Snooty
A little bit surprising to see someone like that get released. I know he hasn't really popped in camp, and Ponder has,
Merit-Based Cuts and Team Future
00:02:04
Snooty
um which is realistically Ponder probably took his roster spot, but a few minor changes.
00:02:04
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:02:10
Snooty
I mean, overall, just kind of speaks to how bad the roster is if you can pick exactly who's going to be on the roster pretty easily.
00:02:15
Savage Boston
Yeah. There's a lot to it. Brett, what did you think?
00:02:18
Bret
I would say it was a little more surprising than I thought. The eight wide receivers is you know easily the the biggest surprise where you're what are we doing here?
00:02:25
Savage Boston
ridiculous.
00:02:28
Bret
Because again, i just get a lot of concern. To me, it's concern on the offensive line. And I didn't want to see them make cuts. So, like, even a guy like Cole Strange, which it's just crazy to think that he was a first-round pick a few years ago, and now he's cut from the roster, and we got nothing there. And I recognize the fact that the man, like, struggled for a bit, but...
00:02:50
Bret
To me, I look at it and say like he had serviceable time in an NFL starting position, and we need depth guys. So to me, I'm just um'm a little surprised about where we went thin on certain areas. So I'd imagine there's some other changes that going through. Yeah, I can imagine they're still going to be trying to shop Duggar, but...
00:03:13
Bret
Clearly, there's not a great taker there for what they're looking to try and do, but dust hasn't fully settled there. So I don't know. I would have thought they would keep a guy like that, understanding the cap situation. And again, depth, right? I mean, like, yeah, maybe he slid down the depth chart and he's not a starter, but like there's no guarantee these guys are going fucking healthy.
00:03:33
Bret
And if you have eight slots chewed up by wide receivers, you And, you know, you're you're thin in spots. Like, even linebacker, I would say, we we're pretty thin in, right?
00:03:46
Bret
You just, you don't have room for error.
00:03:46
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:49
Bret
And I just feel like
00:03:49
Savage Boston
yeah
Training Camps' Role in Roster Formation
00:03:50
Bret
some of the guys that they they did move on from, i was a little surprised that they would do that, understanding the position.
00:03:57
Bret
But... On the counter to that, I think it also just speaks to Vrabel's approach where everyone had a fight for a position. And like he basically said, like if you didn't win it in camp, you were going to get cut.
00:04:10
Bret
And there was no second guessing it. And the cut showed that. So I think...
00:04:15
Savage Boston
I mean, well, this is, this is, first of all, people like to say like camp doesn't matter or practices matter. You have people in the mentions are like, well, you're doing this. It doesn't matter like, of course it matters.
00:04:26
Savage Boston
This is their whole livelihood. This is
Roster Depth Concerns and Trade Speculations
00:04:28
Savage Boston
like you cut down from, you know, 90 to 53. Like, yes, it matters. It matters for a team like us. the Patriots who have had such bad last few years that like, it kind of matters. Who's making the team.
00:04:41
Savage Boston
I, it matters to me at least, you know, when we, when we talk about snooty, what?
00:04:46
Snooty
but I was say, it matters for a team with a first-year coach. Like, Belichick wasn't like this, even when they weren't very good, because he had – well, no, no, no.
00:04:52
Savage Boston
What did matter when they're prime Brady and fucking like,
00:04:55
Snooty
But even towards the end, largely the the roster was set at that point, but he had familiarity with a lot of those players, so you knew what to expect. You knew how they fit in the scheme, et cetera, et cetera.
00:05:06
Snooty
With a new coach, everything's open, but especially the first year. Like, everything is open, because it's like everybody, you know, literally starts in a blank spot.
00:05:12
Savage Boston
And it was, it was interesting for last year's, well, last year's draft picks are really interesting. Right. Because obviously like variable comes in and he's like, I don't give a shit when you were taken. I don't care who took you, what year, blah, blah, blah. So like that, that was interesting. That actually made me venture towards, I thought he was going to cut Caden Wallace.
00:05:29
Savage Boston
I thought he was going cut Baker to the end. Cause he who was so poor as a wide receiver. Again, we can talk about those guys, but my first thought would be they're carrying eight wide receivers.
00:05:40
Savage Boston
Now, That will not happen going into September It's not going to happen. They're not going to carry eight either. You know, one of those guys is not on the roster. First, you could list Javon Baker as really being like a special team.
00:05:55
Savage Boston
I'll say that.
00:05:56
Snooty
Yeah.
00:05:56
Savage Boston
Like you could say like, he's a gunner and that's fine. More than happy to keep him as a gunner. I thought he was gone because the Instagram thing, that was kind of funny. um But like you can keep him as a core special teamer. However,
00:06:08
Savage Boston
like someone like Kendrick Bourne, right? I just don't think they really necessarily knew what to do with. He's not even on short-term IR. He's just on the initial roster. Like that to me is like, are they trading him outright? Like someone, someone's going to be moved.
00:06:20
Savage Boston
I don't know who it is, but they're not going in with eight wide receivers. It feels ridiculous this year. And i mean, I'll throw it up to you guys. Like how many guys are they picking up via the waiver wire, you know, starting tomorrow?
00:06:34
Savage Boston
Because it feels like, are they going to have like, Four or five guys from other rosters? I mean, like that's a big chunk of trash. I don't you know i don't mean literally trash, but like you're getting players other teams have caught that you're trying to fill out the rest of your roster. And so um I think they're going to do it few guys. i still think Anthony Jennings is on the block. I think Kendrick Bourne's on the block.
00:06:55
Savage Boston
And I think they want to move Duggar as much as possible. But no one wants to fucking trade for Duggar. He's a horrible contract. No one wants it. so ah
Patriots' Depth and Waiver Wire Moves
00:07:05
Savage Boston
So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you guys feel about that. Give me your thoughts.
00:07:09
Bret
I'll just jump in and again, like, yeah, they're probably still shopping these guys and move those guys. But to me, I just look at it and say, They're the bottom of the barrel heap guys. You weren't going to get like even depth pieces at this point. like You're talking like seventh round picks to try and dump Duggar.
00:07:31
Bret
What are we talking about here? While they were not standouts, they're bodies. so Again, like we have five guys on the roster to cover the entire interior line.
00:07:44
Bret
Not a great depth. And we're relying on some of them. and Like we got rookies in spots that you're just like, what are we doing? Right? I mean, we got we kept three rookie offensive linemen.
00:07:57
Bret
And then the rest of them were like crazy old that there's a chance that the rookies are going to suck or the vets are going to get injured or both is going to happen at the same time.
00:08:07
Bret
So I guess like my ah my biggest concern, and I've been stressing it all offseason, is depth.
00:08:11
Snooty
Thank you.
00:08:13
Bret
We didn't have a ton of talent to begin with. And then I feel like we then took that further down a notch because we just cut bait on guys that I just feel like we probably shouldn't have done.
00:08:27
Bret
And we haven't addressed it. And we're now even more in a bigger hole where it's just like, I don't i don't know what you expect to gain by training a guy like Bourne or Duggar. Anthony Jennings, maybe. But like, what are you really going to get?
00:08:40
Snooty
Like, so to echo Brett's point, the reason I wasn't in favor of moving Duggar or Jennings is like, you don't need the cap savings. Like, I don't give a shit about whatever savings you're going to get. If you cut them, you're, i mean, you you save more cutting Jennings than you do Duggar, but like we need NFL capable bodies.
00:08:59
Snooty
it
Offensive Line Issues and Rookie Challenges
00:09:00
Snooty
like We don't have a lot. so And like those two can play. i don't care what like I know Duggar was hurt last year and all that. like He's still an NFL player. like He can play. And like Peppers could get hurt, and all of a sudden Duggar's playing. and you know like Or you can't tell me there's not a scenario where Duggar can find a role somewhere in the defense on game day.
00:09:20
Snooty
and And Jennings, he's <unk> he's a Look, he's not a superstar. He's not like a pass rushing DN, but he's a serviceable player. And, you know, we don't have a lot of serviceable serviceable NFL players on this roster at this point.
00:09:33
Snooty
So the value that you're going to get back in a trade, it's like, okay, you're to have to eat money to trade Duggar. It's like, okay, so you're not even getting cap savings. You're literally just dumping him for a shit pick or a pick swap in the late rounds or something. It's like, why?
00:09:46
Snooty
You mean? Like, you you're not up against the cap. You have all this space. You have you have nothing to do with that. So, like, and interior, I think they will probably have maybe one more alignment. And I think it's like, and again, I think Wallace is probably not long for this team.
00:10:02
Snooty
But, you know, I mean, you can't fix the depth overnight. Like, it is what it is.
00:10:07
Bret
Well, again, and i just to jump in real quick, and then I'll ah'll go back, Savage. But like we're basically looking at It's like you got a guy like Kyle Duggar where you're like, okay, we're going to cut him. They save a million dollars on the cap if they do that for a team that's not in a cap situation.
00:10:21
Bret
He's an NFL caliber player. You're not going to be able to trade him. Like, what's the fucking plan? Like, why are you pushing so heavily to trade him? who you Are you getting someone that's going to backfill his depth piece? Like, I just don't understand. And if you were going to trade him, why not cut him?
00:10:38
Bret
take the hit and then keep someone else that has potential to actually fill a need that you have on the roster. If he was an attitude problem, like you would have cut him anyway. So like you're telling me he's not an attitude problem, but we're still shopping him because we think he has enough value that we're going to get asset, but you haven't been able to get asset. like It just feels I'm a little annoyed about how we kind of manage the depth. Let me just put it that way.
00:11:02
Savage Boston
ah Well, i'll put it this way. It's more it's less of like, I think it's less of a money issue. And you just look at it in terms of who are players that they like and who and that fit them and who are players that they don't really like. Like that's how I look at it. So Kyle Duggar, they don't really like.
00:11:22
Savage Boston
They don't want him. They don't think he does
Adapting to New Coaching Strategies
00:11:25
Savage Boston
whatever they want him to Right. If you're speaking vaguely, whatever they are asking him to do, they don't think he does it well. Right? And so like, and that's very clear, not even just based on people's reporting.
00:11:37
Savage Boston
That's clear based on, uh, playing in the fourth quarter of the last preseason game. Very clear. They do not value Kyle Duggar, which then shocks me that they think they can turn around and trade him, which is stupid, because why, if you don't value him, why would anyone else value him? That feels stupid.
00:11:56
Savage Boston
Anyway, Anthony Jennings, I think, has value because he, to me, is a really good edge defender, unless the whole league has now decided they don't like big-bodied
00:11:56
Bret
Exactly.
00:12:08
Savage Boston
play the play a lockdown edge. They want, everyone has to affect the passer all the time. Like, and if that's how everyone is trending, then I understand why maybe Anthony Jennings, uh, doesn't get, doesn't get play. But I thought he's worth like a fifth to a seventh.
00:12:23
Savage Boston
I was hoping like a fifth, but if no one wants to give that it is what it is. So I like Anthony Jennings as a player, but the Patriots don't like Anthony Jennings as a player. And that's kind of my my point.
00:12:35
Savage Boston
um I'm a little more on the fence with someone like Kendrick Bourne, who it just, you got just so many wide receiver fours. It's just the whole bottom half of the wide receiver group is just wide receiver four.
00:12:49
Savage Boston
And It doesn't move the needle. Like I'm sure he's wonderful in the locker room. And and maybe if you want, like, you again, it's not for cap purposes, but if they want to clear that roster spot, you can move.
00:13:01
Savage Boston
You can still, I thought maybe find a home for born somewhere for like a seventh.
00:13:04
Bret
Thank you.
00:13:05
Savage Boston
So he's the one to me I'm looking at and saying, I still think they're going make a trade or two. They're going to try to, at least, I think they're going to pick up a bunch of guys off the waiver wire.
00:13:16
Savage Boston
um And I hope that from what I understand in speaking to someone who's in the know, you know, these obvious stuff, they're going to target interior O-line, they're going to target D-line, and they're going to target safety.
00:13:31
Savage Boston
That's who they're going to target um when waivers come up. um So that's that's what that's what I know. And again, this is like obvious stuff if you watch it.
00:13:40
Snooty
Thank you.
00:13:41
Savage Boston
But again, that's that's what I know. So don't know how you guys feel about that.
00:13:44
Bret
Yeah. it's It's scheme fit, clearly. but i mean, if you're going to move on from a guy like Anthony Jennings, like edge guys, it's kind of like, well, if he doesn't fit my scheme, then I'm not going to... I'm going to find him and...
00:13:57
Bret
what's one man trash is another man's gold. Right. Uh, so maybe just think it's funny that we'd be like, we'll be looking for a safety and we have Kyle Duggar. We're looking for interior. We had guys that like have played interior line in the NFL.
00:14:11
Bret
So like, I don't know, man, I'm surprised I'm on this whole strange bandwagon snooty, but apparently I'm on the whole strange bank bandwagon.
00:14:18
Savage Boston
He
00:14:18
Bret
The guy should be on the roster.
00:14:20
Snooty
Well, he was just disappointing, right? Like, he looked horrible at center that last game.
00:14:23
Savage Boston
had a really bad, yeah he had a rough preseason.
00:14:24
Snooty
He looked bad. The snaps were delayed. The quarterback, there was issues. Like, it just – he looked bad. um they need They still need a they needed a free safety type ever since McCourty left. They haven't had a true free safety since he left.
00:14:39
Snooty
Yeah. Their interior line, like, yeah, it sucked. Like, they just sucked. They didn't have any depth to begin with. City, so, know, again, disappointing. He had some
Patriots' Season Performance Expectations
00:14:49
Snooty
success and in McDaniel's scheme his rookie year, I believe.
00:14:52
Snooty
Like, he sucked. Okay, he's out. Caden Wallace is probably out. He can't play tackle in or guard, apparently. Like, Savage hates Bradbury, but, I mean, the guy's taking, like, 98% of the snaps at center.
00:15:06
Savage Boston
God, he's just not – by the way, actually I'm with Greg Bedard on this.
00:15:06
Snooty
He's fucking starting the season at center. That's that's just happening.
00:15:11
Savage Boston
Ironically, Bedard – still blocked on Twitter, Greg. ah Bedard does not like does not like bradbury Listen to him on 98.5, and and he he I agree. I think every time I watch him, especially just pass blocking, he's just on roller skates, man. He can't pass block.
00:15:29
Savage Boston
You get a big D tackle in there, just as a bull rush D tackle, the pocket is going to collapse through the middle every time. And it's going to be a problem quickly as you watch the games.
00:15:37
Snooty
No.
00:15:40
Savage Boston
I'm just saying.
00:15:40
Snooty
And I understand that. And I think the goal, the ideal scenario was to have Bradbury start the year and then Wilson eventually take over. one at some point during the season. But instead, no one emerged at left guard out of the, like, six bodies you threw there, and then except for Wilson.
00:15:55
Snooty
So, okay, Wilson and maybe Ben Brown play guard. So, i mean, would you rather have Ben Brown at left guard and Wilson at center, or would you rather have Bradbury at center and then Wilson at left guard?
00:16:07
Snooty
Part of that comes down to maybe, but...
00:16:08
Savage Boston
Or are you going to get someone off waivers? Like, can you find anyone serviceable? Anyone?
00:16:12
Snooty
Maybe oh well starting caliber offensive linemen don't become available like that very often. They just don't.
00:16:18
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:16:18
Snooty
Not at this point in the year. You can find other guys like, you know, I was saying like linebackers and stuff that are more scheme fit. I mean, you know, Van Noy was traded for peanuts, right? When they got him here, but like clearly a scheme fit here.
00:16:33
Snooty
Jamie Collins balls out here, then then goes... Basically everywhere else, like Sox, then comes back here and balls out again. Like football more than any other sport is like very scheme dependent.
00:16:43
Snooty
Like you can legitimately find guys off the trash heap that fit your scheme better.
00:16:44
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:16:48
Savage Boston
What did Randy Moss get traded for?
00:16:48
Snooty
That's why... The
00:16:50
Snooty
ah the fifth?
00:16:52
Savage Boston
think it's like a fourth before he set the single season record for touchdown games.
00:16:54
Snooty
Yeah, something. Like it was... Correct. Right. So I mean, like, it depends. It's like you can actually find... legitimate piece. I'm not saying starting you know all world type pieces, but you can find you know actual legit depth rotational pieces, which are is very sorely needed.
00:17:11
Snooty
I think I've adjusted my win total a little bit. I'm a little bit lower now than I was coming into the preseason.
00:17:16
Savage Boston
Everybody is.
00:17:18
Snooty
Just because it's not probably like seven or eight.
00:17:18
Savage Boston
What are you at right now?
00:17:22
Bret
Wow, that's way lower. You were like 11 month ago......................
00:17:24
Savage Boston
i think seven.
00:17:24
Snooty
Yeah.
00:17:24
Savage Boston
If they get seven to me, that's a that's a fail.
00:17:26
Snooty
I was at ten before.
00:17:28
Savage Boston
Seven is a fail to me.
00:17:28
Snooty
but night Seven's not a fail. sevens That's a three win improvement.
00:17:30
Savage Boston
Seven is a fail to me. That's a fail.
00:17:32
Snooty
That's a three-win improvement year over year. That's a big jump.
00:17:34
Savage Boston
I think that's a fail. Sorry.
00:17:36
Snooty
Part of it's how it looks, but then it's not so much based on the performance of the you know first team with their, quote, struggles, which I think are a little bit overblown just in general. I think it's more just a depth issue where you lose one or two guys in a couple key spots, particularly up front, and all of a sudden shit gets fucking weird, right?
00:17:54
Snooty
And like they don't have strong enough depth everywhere else to recover from that. If you lose Gonzalez, then your whole defensive scheme is going to have to change because now Carlton Davis is your number one.
00:17:59
Bret
Thank you.
00:18:05
Snooty
And he never plays 17 games, right? And they actually have decent depth at corner, but not like Gonzalez. and And Carlton Davis is good, too. So, like, i there's I'd say there i think seven or eight is probably more realistic. I still think there is a path to get to ten if everything breaks correctly, if they stay healthy.
00:18:26
Snooty
And, you know, they don't exactly face a you know murderer's row of quarterbacks here. But, you know, That's if everything breaks correctly. You're going to need a lot of luck to get there, particularly injury luck.
00:18:36
Savage Boston
If you get, I think if you get seven wins to me, like that, that's, it's not good enough. Like um it's not good enough for me personally. It's not, I don't think that's a success at all. I actually think that's like, that is too low.
00:18:49
Savage Boston
I think eight is the, is the floor of where you can say doubled your wins, big improvement. Yeah. You're still at a losing record, but there's a lot to build on, especially dependent on how Drake may plays.
00:19:02
Bret
Thank you.
00:19:02
Savage Boston
And then if you hit nine where I'll revise my wins, I had 10 and seven. I'm going to revise down to nine and eight.
00:19:09
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:19:09
Savage Boston
I'm going to go nine and eight. And I get it. Everyone's starting to freak out basically because all the beat reporters all on the internet, it's just everyone's collectively like, like we're starting to look at the roster and get really, really nervous.
00:19:22
Savage Boston
Like, we don't trust this. You don't trust that. Drake did that. Like, first of all, if you the preseason games where you don't know what the fuck they're running, you don't know what they're doing. I know that in joint practices against the Vikings, especially in that first one, May was extremely sharp against a really good team. May was absorbing it.
00:19:41
Savage Boston
And if Drake May develops well, you're going to win nine games. And if he plays well. And he needs to play well. If Drake May
Quarterback Development and Strategies
00:19:49
Savage Boston
plays really poorly, can you still eke out seven games?
00:19:53
Savage Boston
Maybe. i don't know. Maybe it's worse than that.
00:19:55
Snooty
no
00:19:56
Savage Boston
If you're getting if you're talking six wins, disaster. Disaster, disaster.
00:20:00
Snooty
So this is kind of my overall take on this. is like And like to your point, the second I think it was the second Vikings practice where the O-line got torched. They were in third and second and third and long that whole practice.
00:20:11
Snooty
That's what they were practicing. That's narrow.
00:20:12
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:20:13
Snooty
It's like, yeah. I mean, you give a guy 50 fucking reps on like third and long. All he has to worry about is pinning his ears back and going after quarterback.
00:20:18
Savage Boston
Yeah, Greenert is just teeing off on Will Campbell.
00:20:20
Snooty
Yeah, it's like...
00:20:21
Savage Boston
We're all freaking out.
00:20:22
Snooty
Yeah, it's like, right. But then they were also like that guy had 25 sacks last two years.
00:20:23
Savage Boston
No,
00:20:26
Snooty
Like this is not some schlub that just like, you know, um I think seven wins. if you What's the difference between seven and eight? Like seven and eight wins. and mean, seven's a disaster, but like eight's perfectly fine.
00:20:40
Snooty
Like it's like.
00:20:40
Savage Boston
no no. I think seven is not good. I think six is a disaster.
00:20:44
Bret
Thank you.
00:20:44
Savage Boston
Six and low. Seven is not good enough. I think eight is the floor of acceptable. And I think nine is where I have them. And that's how I'd grade it I don't think that's crazy unfair because one win's huge. Any one win, like tweet the difference between six and 11 and nine and eight is fucking massive in the NFL.
00:21:01
Savage Boston
That's massive. That's massive in a lot of ways. And so, um ah you know, Reese had them, they hit their floor at six and 11 and their ceiling at 11 and six. And I think like, I think that's fair. Like as a ceiling, that's the, but that would, if they go 11 and six, you'd be like, wow, something went extremely right.
00:21:19
Savage Boston
Like, holy moly.
00:21:19
Snooty
No, no. Everything went extremely right.
00:21:21
Savage Boston
Yeah. Like we, like everyone, Will Campbell's a freak show running all over pancaking people, you know, like, yeah.
00:21:25
Snooty
Yeah.
00:21:27
Snooty
Will Campbell just decapitates Max Crosby week one. We're like, holy shit, we're in for it, boys.
00:21:30
Savage Boston
Travion Henderson has 1200 yards rushing and a thousand yards receiving and does everything in 20 times.
00:21:34
Snooty
Yeah.
00:21:36
Savage Boston
You know what i mean? So, yeah, but I think there is a big difference between seven wins and nine wins. I think it's a huge difference. Every game is a huge difference, but like, It's just seven to me is when you border and this is like semantics but like seven to me is when you border on.
00:21:52
Savage Boston
It's not good enough. That's kind of a fail for me. And eight would be like, I think that's the the low floor of acceptable.
00:21:59
Bret
Yeah, no, I think that's a fair barometer of where you're at and a good way to measure how they produced during in the season. And to Snooty's point, there is an eyeball test to this all, right? How does it look when we're in the games? Like, obviously, if we get blown out in certain spots, if Drake's still turning the ball over a ton of times, like we just don't look in sync on offense and...
00:22:22
Bret
you know it's We're just eking out these wins because of fluke crap. like We could even win eight games and be like, man, we got a lot of work to do.
00:22:29
Savage Boston
yeah
00:22:30
Bret
So we'll see. I'm to stand pat with my nine wins. I said that from the jump. I've said from the jump my concern is always going to be depth. So I'm staying steadfast, but you're right. we're We're nearing the final hour. We're about to get to real games, which is awesome.
00:22:45
Bret
ah But everyone's freaking out because... it's coming real and we just don't know what to expect. And that's the biggest thing with this team. There's just so many question marks across the board on this roster.
00:22:56
Bret
There's very few spots where you can look at and say, I feel confident in that like position, right? Like I just, i don't know Cornerback play tight end play.
00:23:09
Bret
I don't know. That's,
00:23:10
Snooty
but running back.
00:23:11
Savage Boston
I think the the defense has a base level of talent on it where I do think like they will play well depending on health, right? The the defense has a base. Like if those two corners are healthy –
00:23:20
Bret
Yeah.
00:23:23
Savage Boston
That's good. Real good.
00:23:23
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:23:24
Savage Boston
Like, and then if, you know, Peppers is healthy flying around and Williams and Barmore and like, che like we didn't mention Caleb on chase on, we barely talked about on this podcast.
00:23:24
Bret
wow
00:23:34
Savage Boston
He won the the top team slot. He's been a demon off the edge, former first round pick. Like he's just, he's fitting. You want to talk fit? He's doing exactly what he's a better Uche, what Uche was.
00:23:47
Savage Boston
And so If chase on comes in and can get after it, like I thought maybe key on white was a sneaky trade candidate because like if they have what they want, like there's like him getting demoted and I know they, they, how they talk.
00:23:52
Bret
Thank you.
00:24:00
Savage Boston
Oh, we love white. We love this. We love that. But like he was a Belichick guy and i don't know, maybe they're happy what they have chase on. I know that he said they're going to rotate them all. I understand. But um anyway, I'm just happy with how like Landry's looked really good.
00:24:15
Savage Boston
Chase on's looked really good. so like the defense to me has ability and talent there that we're not, I don't think we're factoring enough in. um You know, that's where a lot of the wins would come from.
00:24:26
Savage Boston
If they're giving up 13 points in a game, you're going to win a lot of games, but the offense, as we know, just not enough, just not enough there.
00:24:35
Bret
you
00:24:36
Savage Boston
Big picture, not enough was done to change the talent over. um And it's all so hyper dependent on Drake may, ah developing and finding the right read and reading the defense and not turning the ball over.
00:24:51
Savage Boston
That's, that's how this has to go. Cause otherwise like you clearly haven't done enough of wide receiver tight end is, is old. And I like Hunter Henry a lot. They're just old and he's not as dynamic as some other tight ends are.
00:25:04
Savage Boston
And I love Travion Henderson, who's an absolute monster. The guy's been really special player to watch. So he's like, you're one of your very few, very special blue chip talent players. you can tell already.
00:25:14
Savage Boston
So um yeah.
00:25:15
Snooty
Yeah.
00:25:16
Savage Boston
So how do you feel about that?
00:25:18
Snooty
I mean, i so I have a take on May, and I kind of tweeted this out a couple weeks ago. It's just in response to the overall narrative of people being, like, freaking out about how, oh, he needs to make a huge jump this year.
00:25:25
Bret
Thank you.
00:25:29
Snooty
and But, no, he doesn't. kind Like, he he didn't play a ton of college football. There's a ton of metrics on this where, like, The more college football experience a a quarterback has in terms of career starts, ah generally speaking, the higher hit percentage you are in the NFL.
00:25:44
Snooty
Quarterbacks who don't have a ton of time need reps and time to develop. right so like he didn't he only played i mean He started games, but he really only played games last year.
00:25:55
Snooty
like that's not a lot of games like he ne ors a tank he started twelve and he only got ten
00:25:59
Savage Boston
He, ah yeah, he had only finished like 10. He was like one and nine, I think.
00:26:02
Snooty
Yeah, so like that's not a lot. heat I'm not going to even think about where exactly he is in terms of worry until nest sometime next year. like If next camp he looks
Franchise Decisions and QB Development
00:26:13
Snooty
like he hasn't taken any step forward, then okay, at that point.
00:26:16
Snooty
Maybe the second half of this year you can actually start to look and say, like okay, but let's see if he's starting to take that step and let's see kind of where he's going. At that point he'll have a decent amount of NFL you know snaps under his belt.
00:26:27
Snooty
It's a criticism everyone has about the c Colts with Anthony Richardson. It's like you drafted a guy who played like fucking 12 games in college who like is all this, all all sorts of tools and and he's just super raw. And then you gave him like no fucking time to develop. And you're like well, he sucks. It's like, yeah, because you didn't give me fucking chance to develop.
00:26:44
Snooty
You just have to keep rolling him out there. Not Daniel fucking Jones. It's joke.
00:26:48
Savage Boston
Well, maybe these franchises, ah sorry, go ahead, Brett.
00:26:48
Bret
Yeah.
00:26:51
Bret
Well, I was just going to say, it is kind of one of those, there's been so much focus everywhere else on the roster because because of exactly what just happened, right? We didn't know a lot of these positions where they were going to be set, but we knew Drake May was the guy.
00:27:06
Bret
So, like, there wasn't a ton of conversation about it. Now it's going to be, like, really interesting because the spotlight's going back on him big time, right? I mean, it was definitely discussed about where he was at from,
00:27:18
Bret
Again, okay, how did he do against joint practices against Minnesota? What was his reps? What was his picks? What were those? Like, there were times, but for the most part this offseason, I would say he largely went under the radar for, like, a top-end guy that's basically going to decide the fate of our franchise.
00:27:37
Bret
The spotlight quickly moves back on him now because – We're in real games, and he has to show that he is showing growth. So, yeah, I agree. i don't expect him to set the world on fire.
00:27:48
Bret
We've talked about it before. like People are going to constantly compare to ja Jaden Daniels. I'm okay with that, and I'm okay that he's behind Jaden Daniels right now in year two. I expect that to be the case.
00:27:59
Bret
I expect him to close the gap by year three and to surpass him at some point and going forward if he's really like the guy.
00:28:07
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:28:07
Bret
But it's it's going to be great now that he's getting the light shine back on him. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what McDaniels can do with him and the development because – it From all accounts and like some of the stuff that came out with last year and like AVP and like they didn't communicate and all this stuff, don't know. there's There was clearly a disconnect, and I feel like it was a lost year, unfortunately, for a guy, and it's going to stunt his growth. So I'm excited to see how he does under McDaniels in this new system to see if the guy's got it.
00:28:42
Savage Boston
It was a lost year in a lot of ways, it felt like. And they they did mention this on the radio today where they're like, who did they what young players did they mold and develop from last year to this year?
00:28:54
Savage Boston
Who, what draft pick, other than Drake May, obviously aside, who did they take and say, yeah we're really going to foster this player and we're going to develop them?
00:28:54
Bret
no
00:29:04
Savage Boston
Like Christian Gonzalez is elite. He's been here a couple of years. He's already elite.
00:29:07
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:29:08
Savage Boston
He came in elite. He was great his rookie year. Who have they developed? The answer is not really anybody. They had to bring in a lot of free agents again and they had to draft new and start. Well, can't like, it is really starting over. This is really like year one.
00:29:24
Savage Boston
I can't even imagine someday we'll have to do the exercise of like what the team would look like if John Mayo was still here.
00:29:27
Bret
you
00:29:30
Savage Boston
Like who would they have been able to bring in? Cause I have no idea. i don't even know how they could even spend the money. They wouldn't even have players to spend money on just like why they're handing out contracts, a huge contracts to Mondray and Duggar.
00:29:42
Savage Boston
They like, there's just the only people there to sign too. So yeah, I think that's, it's insane. The lack of development of young talent because most of this, the draft classes in the last like three, four years aren't on the team.
00:29:57
Savage Boston
So massively disappointing. far As far quarterback development goes, I think these teams have to start, you gotta look at it in a bunch of different ways, right? If you're going to draft someone like Jane Daniels,
00:30:08
Savage Boston
who is coming out at 24, 25 years old with 55 starts, he needs to be good right away.
00:30:13
Bret
Thank you.
00:30:14
Savage Boston
Like pretty good right away. And he was, he was way better than anyone thought. And to be frank, he's getting so crazy overhyped right now. And I get he played it but like to be the ranked like 24th in the league right now already is absurd to me.
00:30:26
Savage Boston
I know he's great. I just, I think that's insane. He's a sophomore player. So that team's poised for the sophomore slump um big time.
00:30:30
Snooty
They're going to miss the playoffs this year.
00:30:34
Savage Boston
But, but yeah, if you're drafting, Anthony Richardson, the other side of the coin, you need to give him at least three full seasons.
00:30:45
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:30:45
Savage Boston
At least.
Challenges of Maintaining a Dynasty
00:30:46
Savage Boston
The problem is if you start to recognize that you don't think this guy is the guy in the middle of it. That's the hard part. Like, I don't know if Anthony Richardson gets put on a different roster,
00:30:59
Savage Boston
ah can he Would he be able to be developed? so you know Take another example, like Jordan Love, right?
00:31:01
Bret
Thank you.
00:31:04
Savage Boston
Jordan Love, who looks really good now, how long did he have to sit on the bench and rest? Like three full seasons or something?
00:31:11
Snooty
Well, part of that is it's tied to the coach and GM, right?
00:31:15
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:31:15
Snooty
And to that effect, the owner as well. Like, you have to be in lockstep. when especially i think they move I think they moved up to four to get Richardson, too, didn't they?
00:31:19
Savage Boston
The whole organization.
00:31:23
Savage Boston
It was a fucking disaster for that franchise.
00:31:25
Snooty
you know like So, if you move up to there and you take that guy thinking, okay, this kid could be the next Josh Allen, right?
00:31:25
Savage Boston
Disaster. Disaster.
00:31:32
Snooty
Like, he's super raw. He's got a cannon. He can run. He can do everything. but he's going to need time. You need the assurance from the owner that the GM is going to have time. He's going to job security to let this develop. And the coach has to know, like, look, I have job security for three years to let this kid try to develop because there's going to be lumps along the way.
00:31:51
Snooty
But and that's what the Bills did with with not that everything is Josh Allen. It's just like the it's a pretty kind of close comparison. I'm not saying everybody would be Josh Allen, but like he got three years.
00:32:02
Snooty
He was asked for like two and a half years.
00:32:03
Bret
Thank you.
00:32:05
Snooty
Right. And then he like, yeah.
00:32:06
Savage Boston
Yeah, his first two seasons. But then his third season, was like MVP candidate.
00:32:09
Snooty
Right. And like, but like they gave him time and the coach had the time and the GM had the time to work through that. And they said, okay, like you'll take your lumps because you're rolling the dice.
00:32:19
Snooty
And if you hit like they did, you know, you have a perennial MVP candidate and you know, you're set for the next 15, 20 years.
00:32:26
Savage Boston
But at some point, like who in that organization decides like we're giving up on this player, right? And sometimes it's like sunken cost fallacy versus like actual development.
00:32:32
Snooty
Coach.
00:32:37
Savage Boston
And this is the problem because there's other examples too, like Baker Mayfield.
00:32:41
Snooty
here
00:32:41
Savage Boston
Baker Mayfield is like – what was he, like number one draft pick or something overall?
00:32:45
Snooty
Yep.
00:32:45
Savage Boston
Like Baker Mayfield was a stud, stud in college at Oklahoma.
00:32:45
Snooty
What first overall?
00:32:49
Bret
Thank you.
00:32:49
Savage Boston
He was a stud, right? Great player. Comes out, gets drafted to a horrific franchise. Bad roster. They're like, we don't like this kid. He's got attitude. He's got this. All of a sudden, you ship him down to Tampa and with some weapons, and they say, we believe in you.
00:33:05
Savage Boston
He ripped it up. Dude, he was like a top, easy top 10 quarterback. Like a top five but almost quarterback. He was outstanding last season.
00:33:12
Snooty
Well, it goes back to, it goes back to like, it's better to fire coach or a front office a year early than a year late.
00:33:12
Savage Boston
And he can play the game.
00:33:19
Snooty
Because if you do it late, then they're going to do some bullshit like that where they're like, you know what, we're going to try to send Flip Mayfield because it's not working.
00:33:25
Bret
Thank you.
00:33:26
Snooty
We're going to try to get someone else just to try to do anything to save your job. Like, they're going for, who has more upside long-term, Anthony Richardson or Daniel Jones? It's obviously Richardson, right? Because there's still some level of untapped potential there.
00:33:38
Snooty
But Daniel Jones is better now. Is he going to win you a a Super Bowl? No.
00:33:42
Savage Boston
You know what he is.
00:33:42
Snooty
Fuck no. You know what he is. He sucks, but he's mediocre to bad, right? But they're hoping that, like, okay, he's mediocre. He can win seven, eight games, and we can keep our job for at least another year and and kick the can down the road to find a quarterback.
00:33:52
Savage Boston
book but But what team, what team, what franchise has had the the worst last three, four years? The Patriots or the Browns?
00:34:04
Snooty
Oh, Browns.
00:34:06
Savage Boston
Because like with the, at least the Patriots now have what feels like a vision. Yeah, Mayo, though, massive speed bump, but getting Drake and having a vision, clearly now they're in a better place versus like the Browns taking that massive swing and miss on Deshaun Watson and giving them the highest guaranteed contract and basically he can't play.
00:34:27
Savage Boston
Like think of how many poor decisions that were massive choices had to happen over and over and over again. you know And like then you go to a team like the Colts, with Anthony Richardson, right? And like, Anthony Richardson obviously clearly has, um clearly is having trouble developing.
00:34:47
Savage Boston
But like, they got unlucky in some respect. They had Andrew Luck. They had like the franchise guy. Andrew Luck was their guy. He was the franchise. And then he quit after like, I forget how many years it was, maybe like seven years or something. Andrew Luck quit. They thought he was a 15 year starter in their whole franchise. So sometimes it's bad luck.
00:35:06
Savage Boston
Sometimes it's injuries. It basically all comes back to how improbable and absurd the Patriots dynasty was holding it together with Tom Brady, with one guy for 20 years and how insane that is.
00:35:19
Savage Boston
Because otherwise, like
Upcoming Patriots Games and Expectations
00:35:20
Savage Boston
it's so brutally impossible. It's just like with Pat Mahomes and Andy Reid.
00:35:23
Bret
Thank you.
00:35:24
Savage Boston
They get together and they build something there. and And that feels like it's almost coming towards an end. And like a not in a Mahomes sense. He's still going to be good. But how long is Andy Reid coach?
00:35:35
Savage Boston
Kelsey's leaving. I don't know. like Can they keep that that thing going? And I don't know how that turns out. But it is what it is. Well, I mean, now got – We got the Raiders game on September 7th.
00:35:50
Savage Boston
ah So I'm going to that one. I'm going to the Steelers on September 21st. I'm going to the Falcons on November 2nd. I'm going to the Bills game, which I believe you guys are also going to.
00:36:01
Bret
Yeah. The boys are going to the Bills game.
00:36:03
Savage Boston
which Savage Boston tackles the Bills.
00:36:04
Bret
Hopefully.
00:36:07
Bret
Yeah.
00:36:07
Savage Boston
Well, that...
00:36:07
Bret
Hopefully. Hopefully it's ah for a meaningful spot, right? It was, what's that week 14 or something like that?
00:36:11
Savage Boston
that well Yeah, it's weird yeah i forget.
00:36:13
Bret
Yeah.
00:36:14
Savage Boston
adam It's December 14th. I don't know it the week, but um yeah, the hope is that it's an important game.
00:36:17
Bret
Yeah.
00:36:22
Savage Boston
Even if the if the Patriots are 500 and that even if the Bills are really good and you're taking the Bills on and that's meaningful, like that's that'll be awesome. should be an awesome game. even if the pit Like I said, even if we're hanging around 500, I'm in. be blast.
00:36:36
Bret
Yeah. there's
00:36:37
Savage Boston
like thatd be a blast
00:36:39
Bret
I'll give Felger credit on this one. He always says, just give me meaningful games come December. Couldn't agree more.
00:36:45
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:36:46
Bret
Give me meaningful games come December.
00:36:46
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:36:48
Savage Boston
mean, especially after the last few years when it's been absolutely insane. So um yeah, Brett, any other final thoughts on the roster? Anything you want to ah express before we move on?
00:36:58
Bret
Nope, just excited to finally get to real games. And yeah, i mean, we hit it. It's about May. So I'm excited to see May in like real live action because we're getting tidbits and this and that. I just want to see him with this offense and Henderson.
00:37:10
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:37:11
Bret
And look, I get we just shit on the 53 in this. you know We're a little frustrated with where we're at. I think it's just a reminder of the depth that we lack and the lack of top line talent.
00:37:21
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:37:21
Bret
But There's some bright spots there that we should be optimistic about. So I'm looking forward to some real games and getting through with it. So we're just getting that much closer.
00:37:31
Savage Boston
Yeah. And on the final thing on the, on the Jacoby Myers stuff, I liked Jacoby Myers.
00:37:35
Bret
ah
00:37:37
Savage Boston
I was into the Jacoby Myers.
00:37:37
Snooty
Thank you.
00:37:38
Savage Boston
I kind of got the water, got quickly thrown on that. Um, ah by a couple of people, one Andrew Callahan, our friend of the pod who was on the radio. He threw water on the Jacoby Myers situation.
00:37:50
Savage Boston
Another person I talked to who would know, um, they threw water on it quickly this morning. It was like 7am and they're like, um, this doesn't, they verbatim. They're like, this doesn't feel like the direction they're going to go in.
00:38:05
Savage Boston
So I said, okay, you know, and then, uh, again, the person throughout, um, you know, interior line, D tackle and safety is more where they're going to looking. So tomorrow's going be really interesting. I don't know who they're going to pick up on waivers, but it should be again, an interesting day. Cause I think they're going to be, it's not going to be amazingly exciting players, but can they be people that might contribute?
00:38:27
Savage Boston
So, all right, guys, thanks for tuning in. We'll be with you next week and looking forward to, that'll be a ah game week. Next week is a game week, which is like, holy moly.
00:38:38
Savage Boston
yeah we're We're rocking. So we'll see you guys then. Peace.
00:38:42
Bret
Peace.
00:38:43
Snooty
Thank you.