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Young Justice Season 4: Episode 13
720 Plays4 years ago
Zuhair and J Scotty celebrate the podcast's 50th episode by discussing the mid-season finale of Young Justice Phantoms with returning guest and animation enthusiast Andrew Rogers!
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
On another entry of Animation Deliberation, it is mid-season finale time. We are talking Young Justice Season 4, Episode 13, Yerb Umtrea, or Break My Heart. And we're getting right into that after some ads. We have no say over whatsoever. Some people are going to try and sell you some stuff, but don't go anywhere. Don't call breaking my heart. I couldn't if I tried. You're invited to take a vacation.
00:00:25
Speaker
from everybody else's vacation to a place where you can explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and see a 65 foot waterfall that once powered an old mill that you can walk through today. Or just float along the cool rushing waters of an old fashioned swimming hole. See the places and plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdoor adventure, Mississippi. Wanderers welcome.
00:00:53
Speaker
Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation, deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah!
Podcast Milestone and Team Introduction
00:01:09
Speaker
All right, folks, welcome back to Animation Deliberation, the podcast that takes action animation and cartoons seriously, but not too seriously. Today, we do have to take one thing very seriously. It is our 50th episode, I'm excited to say. I'm your host, J. Scottie St. Clair, and I've got with me the dream team. I've got Zuhair Ali and returning guest. He's a returning guest, but he really is a part of the team nowadays. Mr. Andrew Rogers, welcome back.
00:01:38
Speaker
Thank you so much. The honor's always mine. And Zuhair, welcome to you as well. Hello. 50 episodes, guys. 50 episodes. How we feeling? 50 episodes in 10 months ain't bad. Yeah. I'm whelmed and feeling the aster, I gotta say. And I'm glad that we got to spend episode 50 on the mid-season of an episode of Young Justice, which is the show that got the show started to begin with. So it's all tying together. Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
It's almost like we planned it. Almost. Yeah. It's almost like it's fate. Ooh. Are you a doctor, Zuhair? Not that I know of.
00:02:20
Speaker
Not yet. The future remains yet unseen. Yet unseen.
Listener Engagement and Feedback
00:02:25
Speaker
In addition to it being our 50th episode as well as the mid-season finale of Young Justice, it is kind of the closing, well, not kind of, it is the closing of the year here. We are closing out 2021. This is going to be the last podcast for animation deliberation in 2021. So with that in mind,
00:02:44
Speaker
We did put the prompt out there. Andrew, you've kind of been running the Instagram for us. So I'll kind of let you tell the people what prompts you've put out there and what kind of responses we've already got. But we will be doing kind of our best of 2021 and looking forward to 2022 episode. That'll be our first episode of 2022.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, the Instagram has been a lot of fun to kind of get up and going and get interacting with all of you guys. We put out the questions that Jay Scottie and Zuhair asked at the end of last week's episode. We're asking for your favorite animated content of 2021, the best animated moment of 2021, the most anticipated animated thing you're looking forward to in 2022. Then I also threw up the old question of what is your anime Mount Rushmore? What are the four shows that you put at the top that everyone is all about?
00:03:33
Speaker
Um, if you go onto our Instagram animation deliberation and go to the story highlights, you can actually type right in the box on there and give us a response and it shows up and I can total them, or you can always do the good old reliable and email into animation deliberation podcast at gmail.com with your responses and we'll have them and hopefully be able to kind of tell you guys what you're thinking, what our thoughts are. Cause I know I have my answers to these questions and I want to know.
00:04:00
Speaker
Jay Scottie and Zuhair's answers come the start of 2022 to get us all excited about everything. And also don't feel pigeonholed to the pictures that I put on the Instagram. I threw out some, hey, here's stuff coming in 2022, but I can't fit 30 pictures. So don't feel like you have to make one of those your answer by any means. Do it for the grand people. Good, good.
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's really good stuff and I definitely appreciate the effort there. It's been awesome to get just more engagement and more participation in the show and getting people's voice out there. And honestly, we wouldn't have made it 50 episodes if it wasn't for all you listeners, just the motivation and all the reviews and all the feedback you've given us. So thank you. Thank you very much.
00:04:42
Speaker
All right, on the subject of feedback, we do have a couple of pieces that we're gonna tackle before we let Mr.
Character and Storyline Analysis: Young Justice
00:04:50
Speaker
Andrew Rogers kinda give us a recap on last week's episode, and then we'll do our segment with the ranking, ranking your thoughts on the episode by the volume of your, yeah. So, Zuhar, what do you got for us? First one from good old TJ Stafford.
00:05:10
Speaker
Who were those heroes that showed up in the North Pole? I'm assuming there are more legionaries sent to combat the still unknown threat somehow tied to all this. I didn't recognize either of them, but the portal looked like a blue beetle. Interesting. I love that Tracy, the Goofies of the Sentinels, was the one that figured out how to destroy Flaw.
00:05:28
Speaker
Using her bad luck powers to go after the crack in the chest was great. That was one of Zatanna's critiques of Tracy in the first episode of the arc that she relies too much on her luck powers, so it's interesting that that's what takes it down. It seems we were partially correct about who was going to wear the helmet. I love the idea of sharing the helmet. It's such an elegant but simple solution that I'm seriously surprised no one thought of before now.
00:05:53
Speaker
Mary, oh dear Mary, what are we going to do with you? I got a bad vibe from her this whole arc and we have not seen the last of her. I had the closed captions on for the episode and they told me it was Granny Goodness's voice otherwise I may not have recognized it.
00:06:10
Speaker
Is Mary going to become the latest of the female Furies? Sure seems to be headed that way. Also did you guys notice a sign that was behind Mary during the end credits scene? It was an out of order sign, which I love since she was taken out of the running to be a lord of order. Now onto the elephant in the room, Connor's ghost, what's up with that?
00:06:32
Speaker
What is it about his specific death that would have led to his spirit being trapped in that place? And what is that place? Is this not going to end with him coming back? I need to know. Not looking forward to the long hiatus, but I've enjoyed watching along with you guys. Thanks for making the show even more enjoyable. TJ Stafford.
00:06:50
Speaker
Right on, right on. Yeah, TJ has been one of our most stalwart listeners and most consistent providers of feedback. So definitely some really good points there. I will say he caught on to some things, especially with Mary, that I did not. I always listen with the subtitles on, but I don't think my closed captioning told me that that voice was granny goodness.
00:07:12
Speaker
So great catch there. And then I don't know who, I've heard the title of the Female Furies bandied about a bit, but I don't know off the top of my head who they are. I imagine it has to do something with Kirby and his fourth world though. Yeah, I've never heard that title before.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, I know Kirby's Fourth World was a big inspiration for this. They actually had it like listed in the credits at the end of Jack Kirby and Fourth World. So I'm I think it's honestly worth a read at this point because it seems like you're taking so much from it. But I have no idea specifically anything about that either.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, the other part of his feedback that stood out to me is the blue scarab that appeared when we did have that group of heroes appear at the North Pole. My mind immediately went to Blue Beetle as well, but then we got two heroes, one that I don't remember quite as well. I think she had kind of a blue and white hair color scheme going on, but then the other one was obviously very
00:08:09
Speaker
evocative of like egyptian imagery or what have you and um i couldn't help but be reminded andrew i don't know if you've seen the most recent my hero academia movie world zero mission but yeah you had that 2d fear of running around with some of the heroes and that's where my mind that too that cracks me up yeah
00:08:38
Speaker
But I guess, actually, that kind of ties into what, before I knew what TJ provided there with it being granny goodness, somewhere in the back of my mind, I thought for a second, what if it was Queen Bee? Not that she sounded super like her, but just that thought of being super manipulative and looking for someone that's power hungry like that. I could see Queen Bee wanting to use her power of control over somebody so power hungry like that. It just seems kind of fitting to me, but it seems like it's probably granny goodness.
00:09:09
Speaker
Yeah, I know my closed captions did tell me it was Granny Goodness. I had no idea. I was wondering if it had something to do harkening back to last season of the good goggles. Did she somehow get into the minds of some of these superheroes a little bit to be able to have her talents in the same way she tried to with Garfield and that failed? You know, did she actually get a hold on Mary because she was probably younger at that point. So that was where I was going of. Hmm. I wonder if this is how Granny Goodness is kind of going about things still in the background.
00:09:40
Speaker
Very well could be I like that that would be interesting if the good goggles had more of a lasting impact than we Initially thought that'd be good. I'd be good
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, she probably would have been about 14, 15. Yeah, because what is she supposed to be like? I guess she's probably around the same age if Tracy is 18, right? Yeah. 17. I think we determined her birth year was 2020 or 2000. I think we said, geez, it's 2020 now. I think that's what we determined. So around, assuming it's the same year now.
00:10:09
Speaker
Okay, so then Tracy's probably the youngest and then Mary and then Khalid seems like he's probably at least a few years older since he's been somewhat through medical school. Yes. Okay, cool. All right. And then as I understand, we have another piece of feedback from our illustrious guest host from last week. Haley Hobbs, what you got to say? Yeah, one of the hosts of source pages.
00:10:35
Speaker
Damn it Garfield, come on! Pretty much how I felt after the scene with Perdita. Now he's truly alone.
Speculations and Plot Elements in Young Justice
00:10:42
Speaker
I'm really bummed also about what's happened to Mary. She took the path of most resistance unfortunately, which we were afraid would happen. Interesting choice about sharing the helmet of fate, as that's different from what we as an audience have come to expect. Thoughts about how this might backfire or not? Keep up the great work fellas.
00:11:03
Speaker
hadn't really considered any of the ways that it might backfire, but that's a wonderful, not wonderfully positive, but just wonderfully insightful thought from Haley. I was just kind of...
00:11:14
Speaker
excited that they came up with a solution that would allow Zatanna and Zatara to have some relationship and it was cool to see Khalid step up in such a big way. But in terms of the potential backfire, I mean, we have to bring up the fact of the way Khalid called Zatanna out like that. And hey, did you take on proteges for the express purpose of one day liberating your dad? And she never answers. She just goes to Tracy and like, Tracy, this is your decision. If you're cool with it, I'm totally on board. And then you just see Khalid's eyes kind of narrow.
00:11:44
Speaker
But they don't say anything past that so I imagine that's gonna be if there's going to be any backfiring That's certainly an avenue for it if Tracy gets in over her head Khalid's definitely gonna have a problem with Zataan in that instance And then what we just discussed with Mary that obviously set Mary off on a very dark course so if she were to get her hands on the helmet of fate and
00:12:06
Speaker
you know, Zatanna mentioned how they're too much alike, like he's power hungry as well, and she's too much like Naboo himself, like that's why Naboo needs a host that can kind of counterbalance him and actually provide that order. If she were to get her hands on the helmet, it would definitely spell some bad things.
00:12:26
Speaker
Yeah, and I also think there's the opportunity that Khalid just doesn't take the helmet off at some point, that he says, you know, you are all, I don't want to say not worthy of it, but the fact that Zatana's manipulated him toward it, Zatar is just getting old, is he gonna say, you know what, I can do this better than the rest of you, I am going to just keep the helmet on because we know in comics from some of the feedback that we got that he has been fate for some time, and I think we were kind of expecting it to go that way.
00:12:54
Speaker
Is it going to be more of a, I can't trust anyone else besides myself to do this kind of a turn as to why he is our new Dr. Fate? Hmm. And he went out of his way to talk about like the oath that he took as a doctor as well. So, you know, I've been very critical of Dr. Fate through the season just saying like, why aren't you doing anything? So maybe that might be Naboo and Khalid's reason to just not get involved at all.
00:13:22
Speaker
Where, you know, he was he was really questioning, like, so she's not really a person, right? It's like, nope, yeah, go at it. Just he's the only one question that that's a very good point to bring up. Yeah, that was creepy visual, too. It's like the skin and the muscles and the brain and then that was weird. I loved him. It was weird. So, yeah, you know, it added to why college seems to be the best person to hold the mantle.
00:13:50
Speaker
It may get to the point where he just keeps it for himself. But who knows, it definitely was an interesting solution to have them just hot potatoes. I kind of forgot that we made that call until you just brought up the hot potato again. We kind of called that. Sweet. Yeah, that was. Yeah, yeah. I think the other piece of the big piece of her feedback is, you know, Garfield, Haley made the
00:14:18
Speaker
Again, she's full of insightful points, but she kind of made me eat my words when I was expressing a little bit of frustration with how long it's taken to get this story from Gar. But man, this week, I've been saying how tough it is to watch, but actually to see someone that cares so much about him.
00:14:36
Speaker
do everything, say, hey, you need help. I will help you. I will help you find help if you don't want help from me. But I just can't stand here and watch you self-destruct. And he was just being such a douche canoe to Perdita with
00:14:51
Speaker
she flew 9000 kilometers to come. I'm pulling I don't know if it was more than nine. Was it 900,000 9000? I think it was 9000 kilometers. I think you're right on the nose. Okay. Yeah, I'm not good with distances, especially when it comes to metric system. Yeah, and then he's just like, I didn't ask you to do that. I wanted to like reach through my screen and backhand the boy. And he's one of my favorite characters. Were we questioning if they were still together before he went to Mars?
00:15:19
Speaker
because it was a lot of like him just looking on his phone. I think it might've been back in season three, maybe it was earlier on in season four where there was like a post credit scene that like, I can't remember if it was like voicemails between them or something, right? It was episode two, I believe was the voicemails between the two of them. And that's when, because unfortunately, Jay Scottie was on the javelin, I remember. So asking the question of whether or not they were together. Yeah.
00:15:47
Speaker
Yeah, that was when he started being a douche canoe because they were on the way to the wedding and he was just sitting on the boat being happy one Cool detail that I noticed is you remember from season one Perdita was getting the heart transplant She was wearing a top low enough that you could see the scar from her heart surgery I was like I noticed that detail as well and I appreciated it, but I did think it was a
00:16:10
Speaker
probably the most like clean open heart surgery line there is. And they have access to technology that we don't have here. So I guess that stands to reason. I was like, it's a very clean scar. It's also 10 years ago though. That's the other weird thing we forget. Yeah. And they live in a world with very basic shading too. Okay. I think that we'll cover it for Haley's feedback unless you guys had anything else you wanted to say.
00:16:41
Speaker
No, I think we knocked out all the Garfield stuff too. Right on, right on. So in that case, we will allow Andrew to give some of his feedback on the previous episode and that will kind of serve as our recap as we transition into this latest episode.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah. So last episode, I had a couple thoughts that I did not have time to get pen to paper on to send to you guys because I got the text that you were recording with Haley as I was about to write the feedback. So I completely forgot about it. I was like, Oh, we're out of time. That's fine. But yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker
on the topic of the simple shading, I did want to bring up the fact that in those flashback scenes that we had in that last episode, you really got to see the growth of the art style from the scenes in 2010, where you had the young
00:17:27
Speaker
Superboy and Superman together all the way up to now, you almost saw a transition of the lines getting a little bit thicker and sharper. And the way that they were drawing characters, they became a little bit more muscular and a little bit more cleanly defined. It's really nice to be able to see the way that they grew. And I just kind of wanted to call attention to that.
00:17:45
Speaker
And then i had a couple of questions to throw both of you guys cuz i know i threw one is you hear me and no idea so also to our listeners to kinda get some thoughts the first major question i had is what in the world is the significance of the number sixteen.
00:17:59
Speaker
in Episode 12, they were on Garfield's set and it was, and I might get these numbers wrong, it was Episode 516, Season 16, Take 16, Season 16, or Scene 16. And I was like, that's a little weird. And then I noticed later in the episode, when Kent showed up to talk to Zatara, that he was in Hotel Room 1616.
00:18:25
Speaker
Interesting. There has to be something going on. I feel like that couldn't have been an accident. I'm sorry to cut you off, but I noticed in this episode, the poster in his room that says, what's the name of the show? It's not Star Trek, but it's Space Trek. Space Trek. Space Trek 2016. I hadn't noticed any of the other 16s you mentioned, but I did notice that 16 this time around. I don't know what it stands for, but it's got to be something.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we know this show has its little ciphers. I'll throw my hat in the ring in a little bit with my invitation to Kay hangman. Yes, yes, yes, yes. No, I wanted to throw that out there in case there was some comic that came up that people knew about. If anyone has the thoughts and feedback that they could give, I really want to know because this is digging deep into me. And then the other thing that I wanted to talk about was the bus scene. I know you guys talked a little bit about how that scene went on too long of Clarion traveling through time.
00:19:23
Speaker
But there were two things that jumped out at me. One, there was a scene where it said Earth or not Earth one year in the future, but one year in the future. And that was the scene where he flew across Apocalypse. Yes. So do we think Apocalypse is coming next season? What what is that alluding to? Because this show
00:19:42
Speaker
I mean, they put a bus in season one that they've brought back in season four. They don't put things in on accident. So where is that coming? What is that about? But then on the flip side, Earth one year prior, the Legion of Superheroes was already on Earth in the one year prior scene. That was when he drove through. It was also a fun Easter egg in front of the diner where they were having coffee where we saw the Legion of Superheroes ring that first time. Right.
00:20:07
Speaker
Why has the Legion been on Earth for so long and why are we just seeing them now? Because I assumed they showed up on Mars via their time machine. Why did they show up a year ago? What was that about? All very good questions. They're really good at being sneaky. I mean, they're not good at being sneaky. There was a bug man in the street that pulled a woman out from in front of a bus. I don't know if that's that sneaky.
00:20:31
Speaker
Have you looked at the other things going on in this world? It's not the weirdest thing. It's like in Dragon Ball Z where it's like the fact that the mayor as a dog doesn't bother them, but Piccolo being green throws everyone off, like where's the line? Who knows?
00:20:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, and we also have the subtitle of phantoms. And, you know, I've been historically wrong about what the subtitles actually represent. And going into the season, I, I imagine had to do something with these time travelers. And if you want to, you know,
00:21:05
Speaker
grasp at straws or make connections where they may not be. I still maintain the fact that they're time travelers and can only maybe interact and intervene at very specific points in time that makes them phantoms in a way. They're there but not there and only able to interact with the tangible world in certain ways. But then obviously with some of the revelations we get at the end of this episode, I think there's more to extrapolate with the terminology of phantom there. But
00:21:31
Speaker
And that's a lot of what we talked about beforehand with Phantoms leading towards Superboy and Jason Todd. If there were thoughts of bringing them back or how they came back or talking about that space between our world and the world beyond, I guess, whatever you want to call it. Works for me. I think I have a name for that that I just had an epiphany on. Okay, what you got?
00:21:57
Speaker
Well, there's a very noted place if you've seen I know it from the Lego Batman movie to start the Phantom Zone. Oh, yeah, right. I if you none of the listeners can see me but you guys probably just watch me like, you know, like the idea little head explosion with my hands down to talk about later. That's probably if we want to start getting into the meat of the episode where that little flashback happened that the bus passed through the Phantom Zone. Hence why it's called
00:22:27
Speaker
Young Justice Phantoms. I don't know why I didn't think of that until literally just this moment. We're all having a Hello Meghan moment right now, so it's all good. So you think our time travelers just kind of put Superboy in the Phantom Zone to prevent him from dying, but they don't know how to put him back yet? Yeah, because he kind of looked like, as much as Zatanna was saying that it was his ghost or his spirit, it kind of looked like me. To me, his flesh had kind of been stripped away, and he looked more like
00:22:55
Speaker
I'm going to blank on what are the names of his species? Kryptonians? Kryptonians? Not Kryptonians, but he's got his brother double X. Oh, the Krolotans. Is it Krolotans or the?
00:23:10
Speaker
I thought crolotane- Xenomorphs? Xenomorphs, yeah, I guess. Because crolotanes were the aliens that the Reach were battling. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. Xenomorphs, yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. The xenomorphs is from aliens. What is it? It's something morphs. Genomorphs. Genomorphs. Yeah, okay. There we go.
00:23:34
Speaker
I'm just gonna put on the Instagram a picture of every one of those things I Got my big like marveled Encyclopedia from all the comics and stuff. I kind of need one for a young justice now because there's too many species and characters Freakin Easter eggs for me to not have one that was too funny
00:23:57
Speaker
Yeah. All that being said, he kind of looked like he had reverted to somewhat of his base genomorph form there to me, but he could just be a ghost, who knows? Yeah. Well, I did notice he had three gashes in his chest. Me too. I don't know why a ghost would have wounds, so to speak. I agree. There is almost a physical form to what was going on there. Yeah. Not to deviate too much.
00:24:23
Speaker
but clayron with the big ass hole in his chest and he was like i kind of like this look and the cat just sitting i'm all warm and fuzzy inside i was like yeah i was gonna say it looked like there was a little bit of the blood had transferred into people's claws too and it's just like yeah just chilling in this gaping chase cavity i know it's rated r now but wow they're really having fun with like insides
Mid-season Finale Impressions
00:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, speaking of a gaping chest cavities, we've already kind of gotten into the meat of the episode. But I do want to kind of do that that segment where we we offer our impressions. So to each of you, I pose the question on a scale of Yeah, two. Yeah. What did you think of the midseason finale? I'm gonna give it a
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's up there. I don't like the words midseason finale because this wasn't a finale. This wasn't some like grand wa outing, in my opinion. Sure. Just as an episode, it was really good. If it was a finale, I might feel a little bit more like we didn't get enough of the like big, massive finale thing. So I just if I look at it as a break, I'm very happy with the episode. But I had a buddy that text me and was like, that's it. I'm like, it's not really a finale. It's only it's only half, you know, we're getting more.
00:25:38
Speaker
So if you don't look at it as a finale, I'm very high on this episode. I thought it was fantastic. Yeah, totally fair. I'm going to throw in a letter Kenny reference for this. If you know, you know. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. There was a lot of excitement towards it. There was a lot of cool stuff that happened, but there was a lot of stuff that just confused me too.
00:26:03
Speaker
Which I don't know if there's just stuff that I missed that you guys could enlighten me on or if it was Something that they're just gonna be pushing on in the future one of the things that we just talked about was her seeing Superboy cuz I guess I didn't really think of this phantom zone being some of a time or like You know a space where you know time and reality doesn't matter like one of those voids sure
00:26:28
Speaker
that the school bus was traveling through, which is why it would probably see Superboy at some point. But the other thing being, they put a lot of emphasis on Zatanna having something to do with chaos coming through, like the child participating. And then the conversation of Vandal Savage, like,
00:26:53
Speaker
How is he causing chaos but being the reason that they sent another Lord of Chaos? Maybe he wasn't the factor and it was the Tana because they were going really heavy into the anti-life equation. No laughing.
00:27:11
Speaker
Um, okay. I'll try. No promises. Um, and you guys failed. So they went heavy onto that, which just leaves me to believe that it's kind of a hint that, you know, Andrew mentioned possibly next season, seeing apocalypse. I think it might be the second half of this season. And of course they'll give us a cliffhanger on that to bounce off of another two year gap. Um, yeah. Um, so there's just a lot of questions. Like, I don't know if that was just like a really hard.
00:27:40
Speaker
like look over here diversion when it really was like Zatanna's intent that caused all this to happen but I feel like they just didn't go into it as much as they thought and that was the only thing that that added the question mark to my
00:27:57
Speaker
to my excitement of yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. That's where the majority of my confusion comes from as well. And at this point in time, I'm, I'm leaning more towards what you were kind of postulating there, that it was a little bit of misdirection while what Phantom Stranger was saying certainly applied to Zatanna and Zatara situation. What was it? It was
00:28:20
Speaker
The inciting incident wasn't, it was caused by a mortal, but it wasn't even an act of chaos or order. It was a mere contemplation of love. So as much as that does apply again to Zatanna's situation there, I have to imagine it predates everything we've seen, even maybe Vandal Savage.
00:28:40
Speaker
So I took that comment, and I watched through that scene specifically a couple times, I took that totally differently than I think both of you are. Okay, cool. Let's hear it. So I took all of the Vandal Savage stuff to face value what you guys were talking about, a little bit of back and forth about the anti-life and everything, but the comment from the Phantom Stranger about Zatara and Zatanna
00:29:04
Speaker
was him, because he was specifically in that moment speaking to Naboo and Khaled as Dr. Fate. I took it to say he was not talking to the events of the Ark as a whole, but instead saying, you were freed from Earth.
00:29:23
Speaker
Zatara was freed from his oath based on not the events that were just caused, not all of this stuff with the child and chaos in order. You were freed from your oath with Dr. Fate by your daughter loving you. And that's why they flash back to that scene very early on, where she said,
00:29:41
Speaker
you guys are some of my best students. And it was that moment of her thinking, maybe they can take over. And I can kind of have this rotating helm. So I took it a bit more as he was speaking specifically to the rotating helm as the not being caused by ordering chaos. Okay. And that everything else is still caused by ordering chaos. That was my
00:30:03
Speaker
rationale of trying to kind of logic out because I have no idea how you could even begin to say that her love for her father is the reason that child came to Earth. I don't really get that part. Yeah. Because that's initially how I took it. And then as I thought a little bit more about it, that's what I was thinking maybe was what he was referring to because he was no longer narrating. He was specifically speaking to Dr. Fate and Khalid in that moment.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, you could be right on the money. The one thing that kind of makes me move away from that a little bit is the fact that Dr. Fate's response to him was like, I'm not going to think Bandle Savage for cleaning up his own mess. But that being said, it could still just be speaking directly to this arc. I was just kind of thinking that he was talking more about the
00:30:55
Speaker
conflict of chaos and order and earth being the front for that battle more so but it could be exactly what you said maybe we're just looking a little too deep I don't know could be yeah maybe the love could be from Naboo and his father Vandal Savage
00:31:18
Speaker
The way he treats his children is not good enough for me. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. So again, we have already kind of gotten into the nitty gritty of the episode and covered quite a bit of it, but I do think it's always worth kind of talking about the ABC and storylines we got there. So obviously we've been talking a lot about Zatanna, Dr. Fate,
00:31:41
Speaker
and, excuse me, the Sentinels of Magic, their ongoing battle with Childe, that coming to a conclusion when they team up with Clarion. But then on the other side of that fight, we do have Vandal Savage's appeal with the Phantom Stranger being present to the Lords of Chaos and Order. And then we've got the Garfield and Perdita storyline there. We have discussed how we had, for the majority of this arc, kind of a rotating narrator.
00:32:11
Speaker
And through large portions of it, we obviously did not. But it was kind of nice that the Phantom Stranger started things off. And he returned as a bit of a pseudo narrator for the beginning and the ending of the episode there.
00:32:23
Speaker
You know, I thought about that, too. It's like finish off where you started. But I also thought about the fact that since he's only talking about modern time, he's the only one that actually saw everything, too, because he was there during the appeal. He was, I'm sure, watching from afar as the battle took place. So I think he was the only one that was actually able to tell the story because he was the only one that was there to witness everything.
00:32:45
Speaker
for sure. Yeah. And there were a couple of times where I kind of questioned his allegiance just in like the way he was talking.
Vandal Savage and Narrative Themes
00:32:53
Speaker
It was almost like he did. And we talked about it before. He doesn't really necessarily have a vested interest over good versus evil or the Justice League versus the light. He seems like he very much is kind of another agent of just keeping the balance between chaos and order, just making sure all of reality doesn't get wiped out. So
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah, him and Awachua are just having a beer in their free time. Yeah, exactly. For sure. I was wondering, is he actually some sort of proxy to Ordering Chaos? Because the whole way that he was able to bring Vandal Savage to the mystery crystal room, and then that Ordering Chaos were speaking through him with the amazing visuals of the crystals in each eye. Yeah. I need to throw out there. That was awesome. But like, is that part of his role in this world is to basically be a
00:33:44
Speaker
Vessel for them to contact with because like how did the phantom stranger know where to take Vandal? Yeah, I I think that you're right on the money there I think he is a conduit and just kind of does their bidding as much as like dr. Fate is That for the Lords of Order Again, he kind of sits in between and then obviously we have Clarion or child acting as that for the Lords of Chaos So yeah, phantom phantom stranger kind of sits there
00:34:14
Speaker
In the middle and yeah, you talk about the visualization that happened there with the eyes and stuff but the other thing that kind of stood out to me is the fact that they Chose to tell that entire part of the story vandals appeal
00:34:29
Speaker
through still imagery. I mean, it wasn't completely static. We had effects going on and whatnot, but you never saw any lips move or any heads actually turn. It was all done through fading transitions and whatnot. And while I found it effective, I did question it a little bit. I mean, obviously, the show has a very high production value, but they have to save the budget where they can. But I feel like this was done with the intent of just knowing that they could not really do justice to the
00:34:58
Speaker
just the ethereal nature of something or like beings like the lords of chaos and order that this is the only way you could really I guess achieve that kind of effect that you wouldn't be able to like audibly hear them or if you did it would not be like anything we've ever experienced on this physical or tangible plane if that makes sense at all
00:35:20
Speaker
I mean, I think it was just a matter of consistency, because every story that we've gone has been around across that realm, because the narrator is talking about the birth and destruction of Atlantis and this human getting powers and making deals with chaos.
00:35:38
Speaker
every narrator has had to tell that story in a picture storybook type of way. So I think I'd be worried if they actually broke off of that for the last episode. I think it was a matter of like, all right, what's the storyteller doing? Let's stay consistent with what we've done this whole time. I think that's, that's fair. And you're right about that. The only thing that made me think differently was the fact that those were all flashbacks where this was supposed to be
00:36:04
Speaker
happening in real time. And the main thing that made me stick out is when the Phantom Stranger turned to Vandal Savage and he said, any tragedy that has happened here is of your own doing. And that's when you saw his head turn from one place to the other. And it was just done through that subtle transition. But you're right. The consistency is there. It's not the first time we've seen this effect used for storytelling. So yeah, it might just be that.
00:36:27
Speaker
And I think for that reason, I was not as let down necessarily as you were, Jay Scottie. Now that you bring it up, I'm like, yeah, I guess it was a good call to not try and do these larger-than-life beings of orders in chaos like that. But I felt a kind of homey feeling of the storybook nature, as Zuhair was saying. It felt like you were flipping through the pages of the story, so it wasn't as
00:36:55
Speaker
wasn't as much of a letdown. It was very nice and like, okay, how is this going to play out? Let's turn the page. That's what it felt like every time you were getting one of those transitions. For sure. And we've watched the crystals move and interact and come down to earth and light up and stuff like that before. So it's not like we were robbed of seeing how they work. Yeah.
00:37:16
Speaker
I think they're just holding the full extent of it. Which also adds to the fact when they were talking about each other and what caused this chaos and stuff like that, it was only the chaos stuff that had stuff. They would show Vandal Savage, and they showed Darkseid, and then they showed Earth, but then immediately turned Darkseid into Apocalypse, and Earth was apparently the balance of order.
00:37:42
Speaker
do we really not have like one individual or one face or one like product of order that
00:37:49
Speaker
is keeping this balance or is it really just like we can't make up our mind just just hope plan to figure it out well and i think that goes back to the conversation that we can circle around again and again from the early episodes of this arc of what is order without chaos and vice versa that you know really the reason that the chaos lords are sending clarion is to cause chaos they don't really have a cause order they just have a hey maybe we'll
00:38:19
Speaker
imbue Naboo with powers and say hey, can you help us fix this for right now? That's how he's only Interacting when chaos starts to come out. That's why he's sure saying no, I'm gonna sit in my tower the whole time So I think that's part of why how do you show order because order is supposed to be normal in quotes True. True. Yeah, that's my thoughts
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah, and when we had all that language about like, yeah, you can't have chaos without order or light without darkness, I immediately thought of the main villain of this entire series has been the light. So what does that make our team? The darkness?
00:38:59
Speaker
That's an interesting. Yeah, I mean, because Vandal Savage does things to help Earth. Is he necessarily always chaos and evil? Like he went to the gods to try and fend off child? Like I would argue that's order. Like he's trying to do what's best. Agreed. So. Yeah, it's it's funny to have like all of this like backstory and context for Vandal Savage. Now, I think back in season one, like we're one of his biggest
00:39:29
Speaker
like forays was when he battled Kid Flash, Wally West, when he was racing to bring the heart for Perdita, of all people. And yeah, it's just kind of funny to realize what such a huge impact and how his game is such a long game that that was just the tiniest little drop of sand in the
00:40:13
Speaker
gravitas of the narrator similar to what we got out of Awatu. I think he did a fantastic job and he's been in other great things and I'm kind of hoping we get more of the Phantom Stranger just because he was a really fun, narratable character I guess is the way I would phrase it. Like I want little just pop-ins of him to narrate things and then kind of keep going. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:20
Speaker
hourglass that is his life.
00:40:37
Speaker
I wanted to bring that up because he did a he did a notably good job that I took I wanted to look up who it was yeah I kind of I'm glad you didn't I kind of wish that I had because he did he rivaled Kevin Michael Richardson for that just that
00:40:54
Speaker
booming bass to his voice, but also having a little bit of like graveliness there that it's just like completely full body. Yeah, it's it's a very captivating voice. So a great call out there. And hopefully this is not the last we've seen of Phantom Strangers because he's just a fascinating character. And yeah, great performance from what was his name one more time.
00:41:11
Speaker
It's DB Woodside Anyone who is familiar with the Lucifer TV show. He was actually a Mena deal on that show. Oh Yes, I kind of recognize the voice he's not only has the voice but he has the body and prowess to go with it He is okay. He is a very handsome man. There's no live-action. No problem Oh, yeah. No, he actually matches up very well to the Phantom stranger just in the way that he looks So okay, if they ever needed a live-action look no further, I think
00:41:41
Speaker
And he's clearly very loyal to DC, so good one to have in the repertoire there. I hope so. Yeah. Okay.
00:41:53
Speaker
I guess other big call outs regarding Dr. Fate and the ongoing battle with the Sentinels of Magic there is the bus driver mentioned a couple of times that his connection to Dr.
Dr. Fate and Character Depth
00:42:06
Speaker
Fate was to the Justice Society. So I have to imagine that's gonna be coming back in some kind of way because anybody that knows anything about the history of the DC universe before the Justice League, there was the Justice Society.
00:42:22
Speaker
whose ranks I know included Dr. Fate, Our Man, Stargirl was amongst their numbers, the original Green Lantern, Howlin, what was his name? Howlin.
00:42:35
Speaker
Alan Scott, Alan Scott, there it is. Yeah, I think that was actually a really cool nod, because it actually made me look it up. Dr. Fate, and now that I think about it, he was not a part of the Justice League until they unearthed his helmet and Zatara put it on. Right. So the first or the first and then last time that we see the bus driver was
00:43:00
Speaker
Early on in that first season meaning that they hadn't found the helmet yet. So dr. Fate was not brought back to life So really him saying that was just like oh, I'm still from the past So can we send me back there because I don't know that this guy's part of the Justice League because I'm 12 years in the future right now exactly so the founding members of the Justice Society of America are
00:43:24
Speaker
From 1940 to 1951 was Jay Garrick's Flash, Alan Scott's Green Lantern, Adam, Kent Nelson's Dr. Fate, Wesley Dodd's Sandman, and Our Man. And Red Tornado was a part of it at one point. Okay, there we go. And this is Young Justice specific.
00:43:50
Speaker
Oh, to the young Justice Wiki? Okay, interesting. Because I remember in season one, there actually was points where they were talking about Dr. Faye being part of it and Kelly Nelson being a part of the Justice Society. So this isn't the first time they mentioned it. And on the Wiki, they have the picture of all of them together, like shaking hands, welcoming red tornado. Okay, okay, very good.
00:44:14
Speaker
Is that Beatle in there? There was a flashback scene. I feel like somewhere in this season that we actually saw the Justice Society together. Yeah, I remember season one. I could be mistaken because I've watched some other DC animated stuff recently. So it might have been in something else. But I could have swore I saw a very distinct image of them all together. I don't think you're wrong. I don't think you're wrong. I kind of recall that as well.
00:44:41
Speaker
Sorry, I gave you so much DC content at once that you're mixing them up now. I will never complain. And then the other one, the other the other call that I've got here for
00:44:54
Speaker
when Dr. Fate kind of grudgingly accepts the fact that they're going to have to team up with Claryon. It's pretty juvenile, but we got Claryon calling him Nabooby. Got to chuckle out of me. Oh, yeah. I love that one. Claryon's quips this week were great. I facepalmed and laughed so hard at that. Yeah. Yeah. It got a laugh out of me.
00:45:17
Speaker
I suppose on a less funny note, but well, it's still kind of funny. So there were a lot of this fight with the Sentinels of Magic being led by Zatanna. A lot of that took place in the rain before it turned into fire rain. So I was definitely thinking of you guys when we got Zatanna with the wet hair coming down. Why? I wasn't going to bring it up.
00:45:43
Speaker
I wasn't gonna bring it up. I had my thoughts, I wasn't gonna react to it.
00:45:50
Speaker
Did you though? Yes. Yes, he did. Now I've lost all focus. I'm just replaying that scene in my head. At the same time, I have very conflicting feelings about Zatanna after this arc. I don't know. Just that, the fact that she would not answer Khaled when he asked if this was her goal from the start, that she was arguably manipulating them.
00:46:17
Speaker
I don't know how you trust her going forward. That line made her the most of like herself in season one that she's been in a while.
00:46:28
Speaker
Because like she was sneaking away from her dad and she was trying to join the team and like she could tell she was a troublemaker, right? She was very like, like she had her own agenda for herself. And this just like, she's been in a leadership role for so long. And now she's, you know, so high up in the sorceress aspects. And now this kind of like, it really goes back to like how we first met her of like,
00:46:53
Speaker
What does she have going on? Because she really does do things for herself. She's a great person that loves her family and her team, but like...
00:47:03
Speaker
They've emphasized the scenario over the season, like they take the time out to talk about how much this is still hurting her. So the fact that she has her own agenda was like, this really is within her character. Oh, yeah, it's just, you don't want to see flaws until they're right there in front of you. Because this immediately brought me back to the line, I think, in the second episode of the arc, where she looked at Khalid and kind of gave when he said, I'm not a doctor. And she said, not yet, and gave him that smirk.
00:47:32
Speaker
It goes from a playful, oh, you'll be a doctor someday to a vindictive, I have plans for you. And that, I don't know how much I like that context all of a sudden when you look back at those little things like that. It's, it's very weird. But I kind of like that we didn't see it coming that none of us thought, oh, she's going to be behind it. It's just, oh, no, they're teasing us that he'll be Dr. Fate. No, no, she had other stuff going on behind the scenes. So yeah, yeah.
00:48:01
Speaker
It's really tough for me to resist the urge to not segue when you bring up not wanting to see flaws, to start to talk about flaw. I left it open, do it. I will fight the urge just because I wanted to bring up one thing. We talk about how difficult it is going to be for Khaled to trust her going forward. And Mary, I think Tracy's okay for now, and hopefully that trust doesn't get betrayed. But one person that obviously does trust her now is Dr. Fate, and even says as much like,
00:48:29
Speaker
We trust her judgment. She's proven herself time and time again. So when she comes up with this solution and excludes Mary from it, he doesn't question her at all. So as much as I agree with what you're saying about questioning some of her altruism a little bit now, it is nice to see some development from Dr. Fate in that arena. And I do like that Dr. Fate says is like, I'm convinced you have to convince somebody else and just takes the helmet off right away.
00:48:58
Speaker
And what are the first words out of his mouth? Absolutely not. Yeah. The most father. You were protecting 14-year-old me. I'm 24 now. It's like, thanks for the age confirmation. Never could say no to his little girl. Well, is it my faith and the love of my daughter is the only thing that got me through this long night? Oh, yeah. That was... And then he just breaks down after that. Yeah. Blasted up.
00:49:21
Speaker
Dinah continuing to do her thing. She's a counselor and a therapist, not only to our young heroes, but even as someone as experienced as Zatara. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And not only the young heroes, that was an amazing little nod of her being the counselor for these people for the last 10 years. She knew so much and just kept her mouth shut. But that the little girl's going to be an engineer and build stronger bridges because the bus was on a bridge that was failing.
00:49:52
Speaker
But dude is still a bus driver. The dude's still a bus driver? Yeah. It's just those little things that they sprinkle in that they never needed to do. And Dinah just being amazing. Yeah. I have to imagine whatever bridges Penny goes on to construct are going to include emergency bathrooms somewhere. I'm surprised she didn't try to use the bathroom with the shelter like you waited to be back on a bridge. Yeah.
00:50:17
Speaker
It was kind of funny to me that she was just like, I have to go to the bathroom so bad. And then Zatanna's answer was, we're going to get you back to your normal time. I promise. Well, that doesn't solve the issue that I'm experiencing right now. There's some weird reverse butterfly effect. You can't use the bathroom in the future. It just doesn't work. Oh, goodness.
00:50:37
Speaker
Yeah, all right. So I resisted the urge to segue to flaw, but let's go ahead and talk about that now with Mary again demonstrating her hunger for power and her willingness to hurt others to make ends meet or, you know, reach a certain goal.
00:50:57
Speaker
I thought I was going to be right on the money with what I predicted last week. I thought Mary was going to potentially be the first one to do any damage to flaw, but I'm glad I was wrong and I'm glad it ended up being Tracy. And as TJ pointed out, it's the fact that she was kind of told not to embrace these bad luck powers. I knew it was going to have to do something with that crack, but it seems like it was just right there. It's bad luck to step on a crack.
00:51:23
Speaker
I guess normally you make your, you break your mother's back, but in this case, the cracks would have been a very interesting way to do it. Just have her rhyme it and child's back just. Yeah, that would have been cool. I mean, that would have been her mother. Flaws mother. It's mother. It's mother. Yeah.
00:51:43
Speaker
I loved seeing Thirteen be helpful. And I don't I mean this in the nicest way. She didn't really do anything in the rest of the arc. So giving her this moment of triumph was I was on board with her as a character. Everyone else I had good feelings about. She was kind of neutral until now. I I meant to say this when you were asking the question about 16. I do have something fascinating for numbers with you. Thirteen got to be the hero on episode 13.
00:52:10
Speaker
There we go. It all comes full circle. I'm not always disappointing. No, you're never disappointed. And I feel kind of bad. This was actually the first time I noticed that she has an odd number of freckles. She has two freckles on one side and three freckles on the other.
00:52:29
Speaker
Huh? Yeah, I feel like I'd noticed it just didn't think anything. I think I just assumed character drawing like it's a nice touch of Doing something like that. But yeah, I want to know how she met Leroy now. Oh, yeah Yeah, oh flick on the nose when she was like out of he just like tails whipper Like oh, yeah, you're right. I'm good Yeah But yeah, I mean the
00:52:58
Speaker
The way that Mary got her pushback was unconventional, but it was pretty cool because even fate was struggling. Fate and Claire and Together were struggling, and she was just like, let me just suck the life out of everything just to push this dude back.
00:53:12
Speaker
The fact she could suck it out of everything in the surrounding area that we were seeing animals and trees, like... And in the extended version of Rock, Paper, Scissors, we know that rock beats magic. That's right. Because I had their, like, big Kamehameha battle and he was like, rock! Just knocked her out.
00:53:32
Speaker
I did really appreciate like we've talked about how much we've kind of loved to hate child in this arc, but when she kind of lost it after that right before 13 had that great moment and she had kind of that like red vein going across her forehead and she was just so gleeful with destructive power. There was a moment where it like zoomed in on her face and you just like got her eyes glowing with this big grin
00:53:57
Speaker
And the facial details were done just so well. And you got these little micro expressions while she was smiling. It really reminded me of some of the more highly detailed animes and stuff like that. And just really nice to see them kind of embrace slightly different visual styles, especially when you have a character that is capable of otherworldly destruction and showcasing of powers like that.
00:54:23
Speaker
really stood out to me. And you called out Phantom Strangers voice actor there, but I've been consistently calling out Erika Ishii for the just awesome job she did, just broadcasting that utter glee. It works perfectly in tandem with someone like Clarion. So Thomas Adcox has been killing it the entire time he has been doing that voice. So I just really appreciated it.
00:54:47
Speaker
They were all fantastic. Do you happen to know who the voiced actor for Teakle is? Because I found this one out during the episode as well. Lay it on me. Is it the same one as Clarion? No, it is not. Oh, because it sounded very similar. It did sound very similar. You can take a guess, Jscad. Is it Fred Tataschior? It is not. Okay. It is the lovely Dee Bradley Baker. Oh!
00:55:12
Speaker
I thought you were going to say Alan Tudyk. He likes his animals. No, he does like his animals. I just thought he also deserved the credit where credit is due for never surprising how many voices he can do. Yeah.
00:55:26
Speaker
What else has he done for the guy who doesn't know names? Oh, come on, man. Bad Batch. Yeah, he is all of the stormtroopers in Star Wars, the Clone War, or Star Wars. Oh, right. In Star Wars, the Clone Wars, and Bad Batch. But notably for animals, he is Appa and Momo in Avatar the Last Airbender.
00:55:42
Speaker
that I did. Yes, that is that is why I found it funny that he was doing Teagle because he's also a creature voice actor besides doing a great job with clones. Just another shout out for Dee Bradley Baker, if you want to just get an idea of how varied his performances are. He also stars on American Dad as Klaus, the goldfish with the human conscious.
00:56:08
Speaker
I love American Dad. Maybe we'll come up with an excuse to cover it in some fashion. I sound like I'm alone there. Whatever. No, I was just thinking of mama when Appa squaring off. Dee Bradley Baker in a booth by himself growling back and forth.
00:56:31
Speaker
No, they actually had dialogue in that one when they were tripping. Oh, okay. Cactus juice. Oh, yeah. It's the clenchiest. Okay, so while we're still covering
00:56:54
Speaker
The Sentinels of Magic battled there. Another call that I've got is when Zatanna was actually telling Mary that she wasn't going to be able to take part in the rotating holders of the helmet there.
00:57:06
Speaker
When he was talking about Dr. Fate and talking about how you're too much like him, that's why you can't be a part of this. It's kind of a curse. Before I came to the conclusion that they were talking about sharing the helmet of Dr. Fate, I actually thought she was talking about Black Adam for a second. I was wondering, we've been assuming that she's connected to Shazam this entire time, but I know
00:57:30
Speaker
that Shazam and Black Adam actually share the same power source. So what if she was referring to Black Adam? And it turns out that's not the case, but it could have been a nice nod. That's interesting because I had no idea that she was referring to Naboo the whole time. I was kind of waiting for you guys to tell me who the he that she was too similar was. So I was wondering if it was Black Adam or Shazam or someone along those lines.
00:57:56
Speaker
I figured it was, especially making it up. I was like, who are you talking about? Nobody. And we've only seen the Black Adam once. It was part of the injustice league for that one episode in season one. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't really. I mean, aside from Joker being pissed off that one episode that they were just a decoy, we haven't really heard much about them since then.
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah.
Family Ties and Mysteries
00:58:20
Speaker
Well, I suppose before we move on to the revelations with Connor there in terms of how Zatan and the rest are involved there, I feel kind of bad that we haven't mentioned the fact that we got the revelation that Kaliz actually related to Kent Nelson. That was a big shock to me.
00:58:43
Speaker
Did he not mention his uncle before? I couldn't remember, but I was extremely taken aback when I heard that during the episode. Yeah, I think it was a trial episode where he talked about his family having magical connections. I remember him talking about his family having magical connections and his uncle specifically, but I don't remember them showing Kent Nelson at that point in time. Oh, okay. So it did come as a bit of a surprise to me, but maybe I didn't pay close enough attention there.
00:59:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's it's an interesting through line to say the least that they would both take the helm and I actually as I say that I wonder we've seen as you compared it to avatar the last airbenders who hair the Kind of lineage of who has had that inside the showings of the helm Do you think his uncle may be able to like talk to him and give him advice and maybe that's part of why he keeps the helmet on as long as he does because he he has the
00:59:37
Speaker
the spirits inside to kind of guide him and who's going to trust him more than his uncle. I hope so. I'm not sure about that because when there was a point where Kent Nelson stayed back to keep Naboo in check, and then it got to the point where fate was like, Kent Nelson is not here to protect you anymore.
01:00:02
Speaker
So I think there has to be like a willingness for a host spirit to stick around. I don't know because it seems like Naboo had the holdover in season one, like when Kid Flash put it on and then when Calder put it on, it was the like, we don't know if we can take this off. It seemed like they didn't have the strength to take it. They had Kent talking them out of it the whole time. Kent Nelson was the reason that Naboo took it off.
01:00:32
Speaker
That's why when Zatanna put it on for the third time, he was like, there's no one to protect you anymore. Like I'm not giving up this body. And that's why they had to make that deal, right? Interesting. And this right here, this conversation that we're having is the only reason that I would say I'm a little upset with the arc structure this season. Because I don't know if we're going to get these resolutions of all these questions that we're talking about of what's going to happen further.
01:00:58
Speaker
until we possibly get a season five in, you know, seven years. Don't say that. I have plenty of plans to make sure that a season happens, Zuhair, just you wait. We'll cover that later. Yeah, yep. All really good food for thought there. I think I kind of like that thought. Maybe some of the points have been brought up with due
01:01:27
Speaker
kind of argue against it, but I think it would be really, really endearing for both characters to get a little bit more from Kent Nelson, as well to learn a little bit more about Khaled, and in terms of him keeping the helmet, I think you're right, that would be a great avenue to achieve that. Why do you tell us what we already know? Yeah, it was interesting that line was said more than once this season. It's like, we're talking to the audience, just let us have the conversation, Naboo.
01:01:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Quick religious thing. When Kylie puts on the helmet, saying Bismillah is something that you say like when you first start something. So the fact that he did that before he put it on was a nice little touch. I'm glad you brought that up because I wanted to ask you what that meant.
01:02:12
Speaker
So very good. Yep. Name of God in the name of God. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. It's, uh, so Bismillah or modern hymn is the first part of the Quran and it's what people say. Like, so like before you start driving, before you start eating, like just saying Bismillah is like the quick thing to just kinda, it's a little blessing before you start something. Okay. Very good.
01:02:32
Speaker
Thank you for that. We should have said it at the beginning of this podcast episode, not to be insulting or anything like that. No. Okay. Very good. Only other things I really have outside of whatever speculation we want to have about our post-credit scenes and or the revelations with Connor
01:02:52
Speaker
is we got that term that Hailey was so kind to call out last week. It's tough to say. Thank you. I don't know. I've had such a hard time with that one because I've never used it before probably. And then I did have to appreciate the fact that Garfield's favorite food is very specific, vegan Thai Chinese fusion.
01:03:18
Speaker
So I don't know if it's been brought up in this show specifically, but I do know it was a it was like the first episode of Teen Titans. They talk about that he is a vegetarian because he has been all of these animals before. Sure. So I think I think they ever so slightly mentioned. I think you just said like vegetarian bro or something like that. Maybe. I just love that they decided to call it out. Like you said, make it so specific. Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:44
Speaker
On the up. He's also a diva too. So the fact that he's getting this funky fusion just makes sense Yeah now on the topic of prestidigitation last week. I was laughing to myself a little bit that uh None of you guys play Dungeons and Dragons I can tell because that is like a notable mage spell in the game like when you google the word first thing that comes up is Dungeons and Dragons wiki like so you guys were all sitting there like what is this word? I'm like
01:04:09
Speaker
Why do they not hang on? Why does no one? Oh, wait, I'm the nerd here. That makes more sense. Yeah. Well, don't don't try to take my nerd card too much. I have not ever played Dungeons and Dragons, but I've constantly been on the periphery of it. Maybe one day I'll take that plunge. It seems like a lot of fun. I haven't played it for the sake of the group because I'm never in one spot for too long. I never know what my weekends are. So I never want to commit to it and then just be like, hey, you guys have to hold off because I can't play this week. So.
01:04:39
Speaker
It's for the better of everything that I don't. It's amazing. I get podcasting done. I was just about to joke and say that it seems like we might have a new idea for the network here.
Connor and Mary's Narrative Paths
01:04:51
Speaker
We very well may could, yeah. We've had a lot of fun playing code names online, but maybe there's an opportunity to get a role playing game going. I was actually even thinking, what if we did
01:05:03
Speaker
Obviously, we don't have the rights to it or anything like that. But just for fun, we could do a role-playing game, set the young justice or just the DC animated world if we wanted to.
01:05:14
Speaker
I'll get right on that. I'm sure it's just somewhere. And if not, I'll get writing. I'll get drawing. Love it. Yeah. All right. Well, I don't know if I really have too much else to say about the episode. I mean, I've kind of been alluding to the revelations with Connor there at the end, as well as, you know, the closing scene with Mary, but I do feel like we already kind of discussed those pretty thoroughly. So I'll open up to 40. You gentlemen, if there are more things you want to bring up
01:05:42
Speaker
in either of those realms or something else I haven't mentioned. No, after my realization about the Phantom Zone, all of my other thoughts of what could have been going on with Connor kind of went out the window because this whole season I was assuming it had something to do with the time travel or something along those lines was how he was going to be saved because I was fully in denial and there was even that line early on that
01:06:05
Speaker
you know, we came back specifically for one thing, it wasn't to save Garfield. So it's like, oh, okay, they came back to save Connor, then that must have been what they came back for. So the fact that they might not have been it, I'm even more confused now, but I'm excited for what's to come in the future. For me, it's just that when I watch something for the first time, if it's in English, I refuse to have closed captions, because I don't like reading dialogue before the delivery comes in. I feel like that just
01:06:33
Speaker
that ruins the intensity of a line. So that took away my curiosity of whose voice that was talking to Mary. I did not know it was Granny Goodness. You guys seem to have figured that out. So now I'm just hoping that she doesn't come back as a bad guy. And if she does, it doesn't stay for too long. I'm kind of worried about her and where her storyline is going to go. But see, we shall.
01:06:56
Speaker
I said I had nothing else to say, but after you two made those points, I realized I do have a couple more things to say. Andrew, you brought up the fact that we got in the previous episode that flashback to Apocalypse one year later where we had that character that I speculated was probably Big Martha, but with talking about Mary and the fact that she could become a female fury and the fact that it was Granny Goodness talking to her, I'm wondering if
01:07:21
Speaker
I'd have to look at the face again, but maybe that is a future version of Mary potentially. That could be. Yeah, possibly, possibly. And then on the other side of things with Connor, somewhere in the back of my mind, I didn't really think he was dead because we did not see a body. But the one scene that happened early on that I don't have grievance with, but it just seems
01:07:46
Speaker
Weird backpedaling is that we had a very poignant conversation where superman and lowest had to tell their son they kinda had to help him deal with death and it's like hey. Your uncle was here but he's not here anymore and just to kinda tackle that with such a death tone and then to kind of back pedal from that i mean that they probably won't even deal with in terms of.
01:08:08
Speaker
Um, that little kid's perspective on it, but that was the one thing that was making me think that maybe there will be some level of finality to his departure. But who knows? I mean, maybe he will have to make a second sacrifice before the season's over. Yeah. I mean, it might not be the happiest of endings that we're looking for, but.
01:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, on the topic of Superboy, this might be a good time to transition into my thoughts about what the invitation for K is. Yeah, because I have three thoughts. And I went through and counted out my letters to make sure that I was at 26 letters on all of my guesses here. Good man. Good man. What you got?
01:08:48
Speaker
So I have invitation to kill a Superboy. Ooh, that fits perfectly. Invitation to Con-El of Krypton. Con-El being Superboys or one of Superboys names in the comics, depending on whether he was a clone or whether or not he actually came from Krypton. Interesting. And then this last one is from way out in left field, but I'm holding out hope still. Invitation to Coriander and Raven.
01:09:14
Speaker
Coriander being the name of Starfire from her actual home planet. Wow, very cool. Very cool. Yeah, so I made all of those fit in the 26 letter count. So those are my guesses that I'm going with. I wanted to say it before we get to next season, because all of the episode titles will probably come out at the beginning. So we'll know what it is. I want to see how close I could get. Okay.
01:09:38
Speaker
had a very productive break. Yeah, I'm impressed with the whole breakup of the remaining letters to equal 26 as well. And then I obviously have not done that because I'm just coming with this one off the top of my head, but I'm kind of like kicking myself a little bit. I talked about maybe it's to candor, but what if it's just to krypton or
01:09:57
Speaker
Kryptonian. I said that. Oh, you said that? OK. And it's not 26 letters. I tried all the ways that I could to get it stretched out. That's the only reason it's not on my list. OK. OK. Very good. Well, I really like the one to kill a Superboy. That's very, very good. But yeah, Coriander and Raven would be pretty sweet, too, given the speculation we've had regarding those characters. And we have multiple pieces of feedback asking about them specifically.
01:10:27
Speaker
Very well could be fun fun. Indeed. Well, uh, thank you gentlemen for joining me for the 50th episode of animation deliberation, as well as the final episode of animation deliberation for the year 2021.
Call to Action for Young Justice Renewal
01:10:45
Speaker
I will give you the opportunity to let the people know what you've got going on.
01:10:51
Speaker
Well, I'll talk a little bit more about the Instagram. I know I did at the top. I love hearing the feedback and everything, and I've gotten a great time interacting with you guys. This is the only time I will actually beg you guys to do something. This is a little bit of a call to arms to all of our animation enthusiasts, as I have been referring to you as. I just put up a post earlier today
01:11:10
Speaker
just talking about the fact that we do not have confirmation of Young Justice coming back for another season. The writers and directors have said it's in the cards, but Warner Brothers needs to see that we have enough support. So a bunch of content creators on Instagram said,
01:11:26
Speaker
Well, on 1230 at noon, everyone post hashtag renew young justice. And I put out a post doing exactly that, putting out hashtag renew young justice and tagging HBO Max and Warner Brothers TV. Honestly, this is the only time like I said, I'll beg you guys if you could just like that post and then put in the comments hashtag renew young justice. And then if you're comfortable, repost it or post it anywhere else.
01:11:51
Speaker
better late than never. But the best thing we can do is just let HBO know we want this show to keep coming back. I mean, we're all excited for it, obviously. And I think this is a great way to kind of use the platform that we're on. And then besides that, just keep following the Instagram because I'm having a lot of fun out there. I promise I'm not taking it too seriously. So you probably will see some more memes and other things like that. I know I've got a laugh out of these guys. But yeah, it's a fun way for me to interact when I'm not out here giving my voice.
01:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a great call to action for everybody out there. I will certainly do so. Hashtag Renew Young Justice. I will say not to take away from the urgency there at all, but one thing that kind of bodes well for me is when I first got HBO Max and started watching Young Justice, Zuhair knows I had a lot of difficulty streaming sometimes because of the servers. And when I contacted HBO Max, they actually told me
01:12:44
Speaker
Young Justice is one of the most popular shows on the streaming service. So that's why the servers tend to get bogged down there more. So there is a lot of interest in the show, but do not rest on your laurels. Make sure you participate in that campaign and use that hashtag, hashtag renew young justice. Yeah. I mean, the show has been canceled twice. So at this point, let's just keep letting them know that we want more because these writers, they know what they're doing. Yeah. No doubt about that.
01:13:15
Speaker
Zuhra, what you got? You know, we've been doing our weekly coverage of Young Justice. If you still want to follow a show with us every week, Demon Slayer is up next. We're going to do a clunk of episodes just to get caught up because they are one, two, three episodes and four episodes in four. So probably do like. We're probably we didn't return already. Well, the pre will probably do.
01:13:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I'll probably do one for episode one because it was like damn near an hour and then just the two or three episodes to get caught up. And then every week we'll be providing that. So if there's anything else that you like really, really, really, really want to see, make sure you do the prompt so that we know like what everyone is interested in and that we can get organized and tackle it for you guys.
01:14:03
Speaker
Yeah, with that in mind, I will take my time just to plug another one of the shows on the Stranded Panda Network. There's obviously no lack of animated content out there. But one of the shows that we did have some interest in from our listener base was Star Trek Prodigy. And I know the fellas at the Star Trek Universe podcast have been covering that one. So make sure you give them a listen there. And if there's a strong enough interest for our fan base, we will
01:14:30
Speaker
You know, maybe bring Matt, Matt Carroll from that podcast to let us know what his thoughts were. That's all I got. So again, thanks to everybody for making the show such a success. It's a real honor and a privilege to have made it to 50 episodes. So thank you all so much for tuning in. That's T-double-O in I-N. Look at my message. Oh, and tune in next year. That's T-double-O in.
01:14:59
Speaker
Next year. Stay well. See you later, avocados. Good stuff.
01:15:08
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat.
Advertisements and Closing Remarks
01:15:31
Speaker
Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
01:15:34
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
You're invited to explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and float along the rushing waters of an old-fashioned swimming hole. Plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdoor adventure. Mississippi. Wanderers welcome.
01:17:07
Speaker
There's a highway that stretches across the 93 days of summer, where worship isn't offered to the sun, but to the smoking tire, the s-curve, and the spin turn. And if you ride it, make sure you do it in a Dodge Charger, Challenger, or Durango. Because on this highway, the lines being blurred are the ones between drivers and demons. Welcome to Highway 93. Dodge is a registered trademark.