Transcript
Speaker: Hi it's Dan here for Dusty Discs Radio and this is the podcast Liner Notes revealing chats with Canada's retro music makers. Today I'm very honored to have as my guest guitarist Greg Fraser. We'll be talking about music and travels and the ups and downs of being a career entertainer. We'll get some other insights as well about recording and working on albums and much more as we get a perspective from a
Speaker: The Canadian music scene from someone who's been there for many decades. Greg is perhaps best known for his time in the successful 80s Canadian band Brighton Rock. They released a few albums and videos along with extensive touring, all of which we'll get into in our discussion and of course much more. So thanks for joining me today, Greg. How are you? I'm doing good, Dan. How about yourself?
Speaker: Well, I'm doing just fine. I'm on the west coast. You are in Niagara Falls. Is that right? Niagara Falls. Yeah. And it's, we're starting to see the light at the end of the winter tunnel here. So we're actually seeing a little bit of sunlight per change. I know in the west coast, you guys got a pretty.
Speaker: Pretty good there for the winter. We had a pretty cool winter, but spring is starting to rear its head, so we're pretty happy. Very cool. Well, Niagara Falls is one of my favorite places. I was born in Guelph, so I've been down there quite a few times. We're almost neighbors. Almost, but I've been out on the West Coast most of my life. Nowadays, mild, but it rains a lot out here, so that's the one slam on the wet coast, as we call it. Where boats are you? In Vancouver? Just outside of Vancouver, in Surrey, yeah. Surrey? Yeah, I've been there.
Speaker: Lots of musicians out here and vibrant music scene too, so. Gotta love it. Well, very cool. So you were born in the Sioux, as they call it, Sioux St. Marie, but you moved out of there when you were fairly young? That's right, yeah. I lived there until I was about five or six years old and then relocated in Niagara Falls and I pretty much grew up there. Oh, cool. The whole run, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, well, it's funny because when I saw that, the band Shama came out of Sault Ste. Marie and McDelavee and Jeff Neal and those guys. Jeff went on to play with Streetheart, of course, and McDelavee plays with Randy Backman right now. So he's been doing that for the last 15 years. But you wouldn't have known them because you were gone. We're around the same age, though, where I think we're all in that sort of group.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm actually a Carl Dixon from from Kony hatch he was born in to see Marie and also Phil and Tony Esposito for all you NHL fans out there Absolutely. Yeah used to love watching those guys play Yeah
Speaker: Well, very cool. And then, and then so you got to Niagara Falls, I guess you were the same as, as, as most of us, you know, you're a young guy, you play guitar, you want to get into a band. You think it's a cool thing. I mean, back then, maybe, maybe nowadays still, but back then it was the coolest thing in the world was to either play sports or being a rock band, right?
Speaker: Well, that's all you had back then. I mean, when I was a kid, you know, like, as you well know, there's, you know, there's no internet, there's no satellite TV, big screen TVs. You had a couple of channels on TV and, you know, it didn't need a VCR. So that was, if you wanted to do stuff, there was nothing on TV and it's winter time. You better be a musician or you better be an athlete for hockey players. You're pretty much out of luck, you know.
Speaker: But you know, the funny thing is we look back on that with fondness, right? Like it was a cool time. Like when you just said what you said, it wasn't like we were missing anything. You just do what you can do, right? In some ways, I kind of wish we can go back there to a certain extent because the whole phone thing is, it's, you know, and I'm guilty of it too. I mean, like people now, they can't go five seconds
Speaker: and without looking at their phone, something stimulating their brain. Never used to go to a doctor's or a dentist and you're in a waiting room and you literally just sat there and waited. Maybe you looked in a magazine, but that's it. I mean, you had time to yourself. Now people don't have time to think that they let their phone and their computers and everything do all the thinking for them. And don't get me wrong. It's not total negative. I mean, you do learn a lot at a quicker pace.
Speaker: But I don't know, I kind of miss the beauty of just not being engaged with social media and all that kind of stuff, you know, where you could just sit in a room and just put an album on and just let the music take over.
Speaker: kids today, they can't do that. They can't listen to a record from start to finish without looking at their phone. Well, yeah, you make a good point because it's an electronic leash, really. Absolutely. It's a total leash. And it's kind of sad because I think it affects songwriting now because people, they can't
Speaker: They can't focus as much as they used to because they've got these, everything's, all these other distractions everywhere you look. I mean, you know, there's so many things not to practice your guitar now. You know what I mean? Yes. Well, I mean, you end up sounding like the nostalgic guy. But the thing is, is that I think when you've lived both of them, you know the difference.
Speaker: and the difference there is a good reason for the nostalgia there that you could you could live a sort of a simpler life you go and play hockey you go play music you do real stuff and you're engaged in the real world and you have to do real things to amuse yourself you know remember the grandparents used to complain about how much time you watch spend watching tv well good lord we're way past that
Speaker: Oh my God, they'd be in shock now. Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, and then, so you, I always ask too about the training, you know, cause some guys they learn three chords and then they learn four chords and they just sort of learn how to play and they have a feel for it. I think a Keith Richards kind of style and other guys are trained and really classically trained or musically trained. And then some have a combination of both. What was your kind of training and background?
Speaker: Well, when I first wanted to play guitar, you know, of course I didn't know anything. So I was like, well, you got to go take guitar lessons. So then you start taking a few lessons at the beginning. So they teach you the basic chords, you know, a D and a G and an A and an E.
Speaker: But when it comes time to do songs, they're not teaching you what you really want to learn. They're teaching you Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and House of the Rising Sun. That was like, ooh, better watch out. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: But the stuff that I wanted to learn is like, can you show me how to do this? Well, you have to learn the basics first. And then I just got so frustrated after a while that I just started trying to learn myself. So I'd go watch other musicians and I knew a couple of guys that were a lot better than me. So I literally just sit in front of them and watched them play.
Speaker: And then I'd go home and just chip away at it because like we were saying earlier, we had nothing else to do. It's been hours playing my guitar and what I would do a lot of times, I'd put the FM radio on and I'd just try to play along with it. You can't stop it, you can't rewind it, you have to literally
Speaker: you're on the fly. So no matter what was on, I would try to play along with it. You know, obviously it was bad at first, but then after a while you start to pick up stuff and pick up what keys are and stuff like that. So, you know, Tom Petty would come out my Bob Seger and whatever, you know, I'll just kind of try to, and then gradually you just start to learn that way. So I would say, you know, 90 % of what I know, I basically learned on my own.
Speaker: You know, oh, well, cool. Well, no, that's and that's a perfectly legitimate way to learn. And then, of course, it speaks to the value of records and radio back then. Those things were extremely important in our lives. Right. I mean, the radio station was the center hub for a lot of music and the excitement around music. And of course, the record player, you drop the needle and you just start playing along with it. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. I miss those days because radio is really taking a beating now, you know,
Speaker: But kids today, they don't listen to the radio. They just listen to whatever's on their phone and stuff like that. And it's a shame, but it still is out there, but it doesn't seem to...
Speaker: have the, the importance like, you know, but yeah, the social importance too. Right. So, but then when did you think, so, so you start noodling around playing a band's, when did you think that you could have made something more of it? Like, did you sort of have a defining moment where you said, you know, I might be able to do something with this and maybe try to make a living or try to get some work. Well, I'm not, not so much a living, but you know, once like I, I, I started when I was, when I was about 10 and then was about 12 years old.
Speaker: You know, we played in front of our school, me and another guy, like a talent show, stuff like that. And so I played guitar and he kind of sang and stuff. And I forget what we were playing. But I remember the response is like, when he finishes, it's like, yeah. So it's like, totally wire -hugged. What the heck? And it was such a, like you mentioned, a defining moment. But I never thought, well, I want to do this for the rest of my life.
Speaker: So then you join your first band and you go play a high school or something like that. And then everybody loves it and stuff. And then when I was about 15, there was some, I don't know how it happened, but the word was out that I was not a bad young guitar player. And there was a bar band that was looking for another guitar player. So these guys are already in their,
Speaker: You know early 20s and a couple guys in their late teens like 19 and 20 whatever and they want me to so they came and see me and I joined their band to do the first gig was New Year's Eve in Welland, Ontario. Yeah, so it's just craziness and I loved it. I think oh my god, this is awesome You know, I'm playing for older people adults and they really they they they love what we're doing and then when I was 16, I
Speaker: There was a full -time touring band and they needed a new guitar player and people were saying, you got to check this guy out, check this guy out. So then they checked me out and I literally quit school. All I've got to this day is a grade 10 education. I went on the road when I was 16 to become a full -time musician.
Speaker: and pretty much never looked back until the time I was about 35 years old. In between bands, I get a job here and there just to survive until the next band would kick off. But yeah, so that was it. I was pretty much a full -time musician since I was 16 years old. It's so funny you should say that because when I had a similar experience in grade 11, I was 16.
Speaker: Uh, maybe 17 and I wanted to quit school and join a band and go on the road because they offered me a gig and my dad talked me out of it. I was kind of glad he did in a way, but then I was really disappointed at the time because it was the coolest thing. I mean, it was an exciting time for music. You're chasing that rock star dream. You got all these influences and this band is offering you a gig. Like, how do you say no to that?
Speaker: Exactly, yeah, and at the time it was just my mother, my parents split up at the time, and she was on the fence like, I don't know, you're so young. I go, look, give me a year.
Speaker: one year from now, if it doesn't look like it's going to pan out, I'll go back to school, right? Within a year, the band already broke up and I go, I ain't going back to school, man, this is my life. So I started another band and another band and another band, you know. Yeah. Well, that's funny because the funny thing is, I mean, going on the road with the band, that is school. You learn a heck of a lot of things. I mean, think of the things you learned in that year that you were
Speaker: Well, that's the thing, you know, like when you're a new up and coming band, like you don't really have a lot of power, which means you're not going to make any money. You're literally scraping by just to survive. You know, I mean, I think they offered me a hundred bucks a week or something. Oh, we were getting like $30 a week. I was literally eating mini raviolis. That was my, that was my favorite food every day. Good man, good man.
Speaker: Many Raviolos was my staple. Yeah, so that was your school. Then when I wasn't playing on the road and stuff, I'd be watching, like in Niagara Falls, we had a really cool club called Uncle Sam's back then. So that's where the recording acts would play, that you would see Max Webster, you would see SAGA, you'd see these Troopers and these other bands coming in. So that was my education too.
Speaker: I mean, I would literally just stand there and just watch these guys and it's like, well, okay, here's what it takes. These guys are pros and that's what I want to be. So I'd study their stage moves, study like, you know, their lighting design, studying their, what clothes they're wearing, how they move on stage, their interaction with the crowd, you know, their stage presence. And I go back to the sound board and try to figure out like, how come it sounds way better than a we sound? Like what's the deal? You know, I try to learn from the song man.
Speaker: There's a whole learning process that can only help you. I was like a sponge. I wanted to know it all.
Speaker: And that's what I did. And when I said, you know, going on the road, that's, that is your school. I mean, you're going to find out pretty quickly if you're, if you're made, if you're, if you're the right person for this type of work, cause it's not for everybody, you know, people see you on stage and you're smiling and everybody's cheering. So that's the life. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's great for that one hour or two hours, but everything else can, can really suck sometimes, man. Some of those long drives, the worst hideous hotels and motels you ever imagined.
Speaker: when we're staying in there and just starving. And so it's not all that it's cracked up to be, but if you asked me if I wanted to do it all again, I would do it all again in a heartbeat.
Speaker: Well, and that's the overriding point, I think, right? You're training yourself to do something that you want to do. So you're learning about camaraderie, you're learning about polishing up the sound, you're learning about surviving, getting gigs, and of course monetizing your music because now you're not in your bedroom practicing your guitar. You got to make money from it. You got to at least make something and you got to survive. So that's a great education. I went through that myself, not quite to the extent you did, because I waited until a little bit later.
Speaker: Learn those lessons in the long drives and the price you pay but you have to love it and you're pursuing something you love Which is I think the key for that was the key for me. Anyway It's everything that's yeah. You hit a rate on the nose. If you don't love it, you're not gonna survive and you know, I've been doing it long enough where I've seen guys that have the intentions and
Speaker: Oh yeah, I want to do this. And then they get on the road and they don't have the comforts of home anymore. And then you see that it just wears on them. It's like, oh, this guy, he's not a lifer. And it's hard to find the lifers, because they're willing to put up the necessary bullshit that you will encounter.
Speaker: You gotta know how to overcome that stuff and you go, okay, there's another little bump in the road and it's part of the gig. It's not and will never be smooth sailing all the time. You're always gonna have these roadblocks in front of you and it's the people that can persevere and get over those humps are the ones that are there for the longevity.
Speaker: No, that's a great point because there's lots of guys and I'm sure you know as well. They said, well, I love playing the music. I just got tired of the BS. And I'm like, well, then you have to quit because if you can't put up with that, you're not going to survive in this business. And it's serious BS, man. I mean, it's.
Speaker: I mean, like the agents and the managers and the lawyers and like the lying and cheating and backstabbing. It's just relentless, you know? But if you don't, if you're in it to make money and money only, well, I wouldn't suggest being in this job, you know, because that comes and goes. But if you got to love what you're doing, you know, and I still love it, man. I'll never stop you.
Speaker: Good for you. No, I'd say I feel the same way and I've been able to, you know, my path was a little different because I came out to the West coast and stayed here, but I've made a living for four decades. So I'm very thankful for that. Awesome. I didn't want to do anything else. That's my keyboard player. And I talked about that. He goes, well, I don't really want to do anything else. And I'm like, well, neither do I. And I was okay. Well, let's work it out. That's it. That's made in heaven there.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. So, so then you got your band together that what became Brighton Rock was originally called Heart Attack, right? You guys got together, you formed in basically in Niagara Falls. Yeah, based around Niagara Falls in Hamilton, my bass player is Stevie Screebs. To this day, I know him since I was 15 years old. He still lives in minutes from my house. We started the band and we went through different singers and keyboard players and drummers and stuff like that.
Speaker: And then once we got a band that that looked like it was was working for a long period of time, we we got a record deal. And but we were still hard attack when we got the record deal. But we got signed to Warner Electro -Atlantic, which is called WEA, W -E -A. And they said in Warner in the States has another band called Jack Mack and the Heart Attack. So we can't you guys going to have to change your name. We can't have two heart attacks.
Speaker: No, what are we going to do? Then we gradually tossed names around and Bright and Rock became our name. We signed our deal. I think it would have been about 1985. Interesting. I was wondering about the name because that's of course a famous book by Graham Greene. Yup. I was thinking it was reading that book. That's why that name kind of
Speaker: and there's a city in Ontario you when we would be gigging called Brighton Ontario and the one time my we're driving my grandpa was born there is that right look at that yeah my grandpa was born in Brighton Ontario we're passing through Brighton he's reading the book Brighton Rock he goes look at that
Speaker: Right and then that's it's made in heaven. Yeah. Yeah, so then when we're you know looking for names somebody mentioned that name and Because every name is always like I don't know. I don't know a cliche then when they somebody said bright rock We went that's actually pretty cool. You know
Speaker: Yeah and then somebody went i think in the sigma i don't know but queen's got a song called brighten rock they're gonna think we're a queen tribute and say uh i don't know let's just go for it and see what happens and then we just did never look back so no cool and then and then a lot of people don't realize but the rock is actually rock candy right and so in brighten they had that particular rock candy and that that was what it was
Speaker: Yeah, we actually went to Brighton, England when we were touring over in England back in 89 and we went to Brighton and yep, there's Brighton Rock candy store and we got lots of photos in front of it. You know, here we are and everywhere around us says Brighton Rock, Brighton Rock candy and that's all the cool stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, there's one thing I mean, I still remember their beaches don't have sand. They got rocks. Oh, well, they literally just all these flat pebbles people are lying on the rocks instead of sand. So I was like, Whoa, this is crazy. Yeah, that's right. It's a bit north for the sandy beaches. Yeah. Chili.
Speaker: Well, that was cool. So so you were able to get an album deal with a record deal with WAA, which is not an easy thing to do. I mean, you know, there's lots of bands and lots of upcoming bands. And of course, back then they had the farm teams like they had bands that they were grooming to bring up. But to get that record deal must have been a pretty big deal for you guys. Well, you know, prior to getting the record deal, you know, I was bouncing from band to band, but they're mostly all cover bands. And then we'd sprinkle in some originals. The guys didn't they were happy just
Speaker: playing for the girls and, you know, like, we just gotta learn some, learn the latest cover songs will pack the place. And that was a lot of them, that was good enough for them. It's like, no, man, I want to get a record deal. I want to make records. I don't, I'm tired of getting, playing other people's music. And it's such a risk because you start, you know, once you start getting a good cover band together, you start making some better money and people get a taste of that. They don't want to go back. So it's like, well, if we start, if we try to do an original band,
Speaker: We're going to start over again. We're going to make no money again. And I go, well, I'm willing to do that. So when I started the heart attack at the time, that was my intention. No covers. We're going to have, we're going to have a record, like enough songs for record, 10, 15 songs that we can start submitting the record companies and then we'll start playing live.
Speaker: before we learn one cover saw. So that's what we did. And then there's a radio station in Toronto. You probably remember Q107.
Speaker: in 1984, 85, I think it might've been 84. Every year back then they had a thing called the Q107 Homegrown Contest. It's like a battle of the bands and all the originals, all the bands would send in their originals and then they would pick 10 or 12 and then release a record, a vinyl record, which gets submitted across the country. And that was a real big deal. So we submitted a couple of our songs and we got on. And this is before we even played a live date.
Speaker: So it's like, whoa, there's, so right away, now we're getting notice, like, cause the rec companies would take notice of this. They would, you know, they, all the rec companies would get copies of this and then, you know, you do a showcase for Q107. And, uh, so that was our first live gig was showcasing for the rec companies and stuff like that. But, uh, we weren't polished yet, you know, we still had a ways to go, but it was, it was definitely, uh, a sign for us. Like, Hey, we're onto something here, man. You know, we got on this record.
Speaker: without even playing live. We have no name behind us. It was just based on the song writing itself. It's not because we had a bunch of hype behind us. Nobody knew who we were and we made it on there. So then we really hunkered down and started pushing the originals. And then you still had to play the game. No bar is going to touch you unless you're well known, which we weren't. So we had to do the covers, but we would do the originals too.
Speaker: So we would try to do it. So one set of originals, one set of covers, stuff like that. And then we started getting a really good momentum going and then the Rec Company started coming out and sure enough, you know, make a long story short, we got a record deal. You know, they, they came to see us one stormy night and all these people were supposed to come, but it was such a storm that nobody, hardly anybody showed up on this particular night, but the Rec Company guy still showed up and went, Oh my God, he's still here.
Speaker: We're all embarrassed because there's nobody there, but like, okay, let's go for it. So we went on stage like we're playing in Madison Square Gardens. Yeah. We went for it. And the guy goes, I love you guys, man. You know, I love what I'm hearing. You guys got a good state show, good energy, you know, and, uh, yeah, that was it. So then we signed a three record deal with we, uh, Canada and, uh, off to the races. Well, very cool. Well, there's a couple of things in that story. One is, um,
Speaker: you know, good for you for pressing forward with that, because I was talking to a friend of mine in Vancouver here, and we were talking about how many of the club bands, you know, they were caught up there, the Coke and the Strippers and the, you know, living the life and doing the 80s thing. And how many of those bands actually emerged out of the clubs to become recording acts? And it's almost none of them, like very, very few who could count on almost on one hand, because most of them just were caught up in the lifestyle and they were making pretty good money. And they just stayed in there. So it speaks well of you to actually,
Speaker: to break out of that. And then the other thing, the point you made, that's a good one is that you have to reset. So you almost, you know, some guys did the starvation tour. We used to call it, right? You go back to Halifax and back to Vancouver three times to try to promote your album, but they loved it and they were willing to do it. Whereas other bands weren't. Oh, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, especially like late in the last 20 years, tribute bands really started to make a, you know, if you look at a lot of bands, like a lot of places around here,
Speaker: They're all tribute bands. In fact, when I started, they only had a couple. I remember the Blushing Brides. Yeah, but other than that, there wasn't too many. So now, these tribute bands, they've already got a built -in crowd going in. We do a tribute to Tragically Hip. Okay, well, boom, you've got a place full of Tragically Hip fans. You've already got a stab or songs. Pepperty is going to love everything you play. You're making good money.
Speaker: It's like, hey, this is the life, and people are good with that, but it's got to get a little old after a while. Yeah, no, good for you. The one on the West Coast that was the most famous one was Guy Jones. He did a tribute to Alice Cooper, and he did really well, and he made some serious money, but you're right. Back then, there wasn't that many.
Speaker: Now a lot of those older bands are sort of gone by the by or they're past their best before date. So the tribute thing is really, I've done it myself because I've made a living as a show band, cover band, what I've done some original stuff to, but my path was a little bit different. So now I do a tribute actually to Bob Seeger and John Fogerty and that's worked out well too. And you can get almost recording act money for some of those shows. Are you singing? Yeah. So you're singing Fogerty?
Speaker: Absolutely. Wow. Wow. You must get some pipes on you. Well, you got to be able to sing an A to B pretty easily or pretty regularly to sing those songs, but I love them and it's one thing I can do, but I had to find a different way because I didn't do the original.
Speaker: Thing but you know I applaud you guys that did and it obviously I guess it's more of a roller coaster mine's been more even when you when you're doing what you're doing You know one day you're you you feel like a rock star And then the next day the business crap comes in and in all the rest of it right so you ride the roller coaster a bit more
Speaker: Well, yeah. Once you do get a record deal, then reality sets in that this is the business now. Up until then, when you're just playing clubs and your only business is dealing with a bar owner, you got one guy dealing with the agent and stuff like that. But once you start getting into what I consider more of the big leagues and it becomes a business, that can really suck the life out of a lot of people because it can be pretty corrupt.
Speaker: it can be pretty disheartening a lot of times and it can take your eye off the ball sometimes where you know in the early days when you didn't know any better all
Speaker: my mind was all about the music. And now you start dealing with lawyers and managers and road managers and agents and all these people coming at you. It's like, oh my God. So now you find yourself worrying about this and worrying about this contract and worrying about this and that and stuff that has not really to do with the music, it's all the business part of it. And that's what gets people alive.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, so you gotta know how to get past that and then not everybody does and I'm guilty of it, too I mean sometimes it frustrates the hell out of me. It's like why not doing this? It's because the love of music man and you know, God bless it Well, I guess and also when you get a record do you kind of become a commodity, right? It's like being a pro athlete or something, you know You're my boy now and you got to do this and you got to do that and we need you here We need you to do that. We need another song. We need this album done. You got a tour coming you become a Commodified I guess is a way to say it
Speaker: Well, yes. And, you know, when, you know, when we signed it, our dealing, we're like 22 years old. So we're still young pups and, you know, all the guys that recommend me, they're older. We considered them adults and we're still kids, you know, and, you know, and, and they definitely had the upper hand, you know, so where there's always that fear that we're going to get dropped from the rec company. If you don't play the game and.
Speaker: You know, and we were considered more of a hard rock band, which was a new thing for WEA because we're pretty much the first hard rock band that they signed in Canada.
Speaker: you know, mostly everybody else on there was a little easier to digest. Like they had the Katie Lang and Blue Rodeo and George Fox and stuff like that. You know, it's easier for them to the rec company to get them on radio stations because they didn't really have too much edge. It's safer, a lot more safer. But with us, it was a little bit more of a struggle. So, you know, always that fear. It's like, hey, man,
Speaker: you know, you could, we signed you for three, but we can still drop you after one. That's like, uh, you know. Yeah. They definitely, they definitely have the, uh, they have the upper hand. And then of course you're right there doing the heavier stuff right at the time of, you know, Bon Jovi was out in Vancouver here recording and Guns N' Roses was coming out. And of course Poison and Motley Crue, those bands were all still rocking and rolling, right? So you were kind of in that
Speaker: Sort of you wanted to be slotted in that genre. Is that what you were your goal? Yeah, because like I remember like in 84 when we were just getting verged on the verge of getting signed That's when that song jump came out by Van Halen. That was like number one. So then you know, it is really established You know and right prior that was uh, come on a feel of noise by choir riot, you know, that was a huge huge raise sold six million records and
Speaker: So, you know, Canada was looking, hey, we're going to get one of these bands, these Bon Jovi band healing type of band. So then, you know, we were hoping to be that band. And lucky enough, we we we proved ourselves and we got it, you know, so. Well, I mean, you had the look and the tunes. I mean, if you looked up in the dictionary like an 80s band, you guys were just perfect. I mean, you had the perfect look and I mean, you had the five big hair and the skinny jeans and the tunes. And I mean, it was right there, right?
Speaker: Oh, yeah, that was it was it was the look back. If you didn't have the big hair, you weren't going to get it. That's cool. Well, then, of course, you were you were really video friendly, too, right? Like you came out with can't wait for the night and stuff. I watched a whole bunch of your videos, but I mean, it's just quintessential 80s. I mean, if you wanted to do a time capsule of what the 80s should be, those videos are just right there. And that was a beauty thing about it back then, because that's when much music was just starting to
Speaker: That helped it. That was immense help for us because all of a sudden people across the country, if they didn't hear us on the radio, because we never got tons of radio play. We did get it, but we weren't like a lot of the safer bands that got tons of radio play. A lot of radio stations, especially in Canada, they shied away from it. It's like, we don't want our sponsors to get all ruffled or feathers.
Speaker: you know, come to fruition in there.
Speaker: But the videos, because it was such a new thing, there wasn't tons and tons of videos for much music and MTV to choose from. So bands like us, we had videos out, they would play it a lot because the well wasn't deep yet of lots of content for them. So that was huge for us. All of a sudden we start going out west and out east Canada and people knew who we were.
Speaker: just from the video and it was like wow this is so awesome you know and it's there's a really exciting time the way it was all unfolding the way it did you know yeah wow man that's interesting you know well yeah and the thing is is that you know when they first came out like i was in a band and you know we watched all the videos and i thought videos would last forever i thought well this is the new way this is what's going to be every every major hit song or every major single is going to have a video attached to it everyone's going to see it
Speaker: everyone's gonna know who the band is what they look like the mystique was gone as far as you know who's this guy or who's that guy you're right there your face is right in the camera that's right and everybody's seeing it right i kind of missed the mystique you know like when i was when i was a kid like other than magazines you never knew
Speaker: like with the guys, you never seen them in action. Like, you know, even in chess, they never read videos back then. You'd only see them in a magazine. You never heard them talk unless you have to see them on like on the Mike Douglas show or something. They make a little quick clip. But other than that, there was no videos. There was no. And so there was a total mystique.
Speaker: And now it's like, you know, any, you got with the Twitter and the Facebook, you know, people, no friends with them on Facebook practically. Right. Yeah. Now they know what your favorite rock star you had for breakfast. You know, there's no mistake now. So I wanted to ask you about the videos because that whole thing, I mean, it sort of cut both ways, right? Cause I've talked to lots of guys about the videos. And of course it comes out of your recoupable money that you owe back to the record company. And some of them were ridiculously expensive. And of course you don't get the money back. You get.
Speaker: advertising from the video, as you said, but you don't get revenue much back from the videos. Like how many videos would have paid for themselves by video revenues? Well, that's exactly it. You know, you make a record, people go out and buy that record or a cassette or CD. So you're getting revenue. You make a video, nobody's buying your video unless you have a bunch where you can put them all on one DVD.
Speaker: so yeah that's you know if you make a crappy video you spend a whack of money and it's a crappy video and it doesn't get aired well that money just went down the drain you know and that's a catch 22 thing too because a lot of videos hurt bands I remember the
Speaker: i forget the name of the song but the billy square put that one news pretty much as i did you remember that one i did see it was in a bed or something i was trying to be sexy you know i was like what the hell is this exactly you know what i mean so that kills his career
Speaker: Yeah, he was done after that people had no respect for him after that So yeah, so you gotta watch what you're doing And then you know when you're when you're new to the video game You're putting a lot of faith in people that are making the video for you, you know, like all these Newographers and stuff like that. They start throwing all these buzzwords at you and you're going. Okay. Well, this is all new to me I hope what you're saying is true. Let's okay. Let's do for you know, do it and
Speaker: So that's right. Cause you're like, I'm a guitar player. I wrote some songs here. Well, when you did the, we came to rock video, like that was kind of a concept video, right? With the floating stage, you got the vibe girls on the violins. It's cool, but it just goes, whose concept was that?
Speaker: Uh, I think, well, just wasn't ours pretty much. We just wanted to play that. All we kept saying, look at all we want to do is for us to play live. Can you just come to one of our gigs and no, they can't do that. You're going to look like a club band. You want to look like you're bigger than life. And so they started talking. And so you have, you know, teams of people, you know, that, that it's supposed to be, that are in the know.
Speaker: Giving you all these different concepts and ideas and stuff and it's like okay, and you just start agreeing with stuff Just to get it done. You know yeah, and they you know you got a sweet talking manager talking to you He can you know guys that can sell Snowballs to an Eskimo they can talk you into anything and we're naive guys that just want to rock We don't want to hear about all this stuff whatever man. Let's just do it Let's just get it over with some get back on the road. You know so I
Speaker: Yeah. So where did you film that one? Like they must have built a sound stage because they had the floating stage and they had all our videos were all filmed in warehouses in Toronto. So, okay. Yeah. We can, we came to rock was just a warehouse and they just got a corner of the warehouse and built the stage and litter up. And, uh, same with camera night, just got to build a big stage and litter up like it's a concert. And then, uh, yeah, pretty much all of our videos are kind of like that. They must have spent some money on it because you'd have to, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Lots of my lots. Well, then they, and can't wait for the night. That, that looked like a kind of an expensive video. It wasn't a cheap one for sure. Well, it was expensive for us, but then, you know, you've got like the, like the bigger bands, like Honeymoon Sweet, you know, they, they got three times as much money for their videos and stuff like that.
Speaker: But they were a big radio band. They got a lot of radio play. So, you know, your band was the more money you got for your videos. And that's the way it worked, you know. And then, of course, you got to pay it back off your sales. Right. Did you did you ever end up making money off of the sales back? Yeah, well, we did. We did except for our third record. The first two records went gold. So, you know, we did good that way. And we went in. We didn't wasn't crazy money on the videos as much as not as much as you think they would be.
Speaker: At the time, what I'm saying is compared to most of the videos you would see on much music MTV, they cost way, way more than ours, you know? So - Well, some guys were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think there was one video, it was cost a million dollars or something. You get a Hollywood producer and make a big production out of it. Some of the Michael Jackson ones and stuff - Oh yeah. Create crazy money, right? No, ours were never more than, I would say 30 to $40 ,000.
Speaker: which is still a pretty big hit when it's coming off of your, you know, you don't make dime one until that recoupable money's paid back. And then that is a big dump to add on top of already the production costs and producing it and marketing, right? Yeah, but what, yeah. So.
Speaker: paying it back through album sales, but we would make more money because of the exposure by the concert. Fair enough. We have a name now, so now we can charge way more money than a year ago type of thing. So then we'd make our money and then lots of merch, t -shirts and stuff like that. But making a lot of money from the record itself, no, we never made lots of money from the records. Because like you said, it all goes back into the machine.
Speaker: Yeah. Right. Well, no, I've heard that story over and over again. And, and, you know, it's just the nature of the Bayas. And then of course, expenses that are, you know, inflated, let's say, and your, your reconciliations of how many albums you actually sold and how much you're getting from it. But, you know, that's part of the business, right? That's part of being at the bottom of the food chain, I guess, as a musician, you just playing your music and doing the videos and hoping to make something out of it. And of course you get the money from the live shows, right?
Speaker: Yeah. And that's, you know, like we were talking about earlier, that's all part of your schooling. And, you know, you become a doctor, a lawyer, you go to school and you learn everything that you need to know. You can't go to school to learn the business of rock and roll. You can't go to school to learn how to deal with record companies.
Speaker: and publishing companies and stuff like that. So that's why everybody gets ripped off. They put these 10 page contracts in front of you and it's all legal jumbo. And you look at it and go, I don't understand any of this. Well, every other band signed the same contract. Okay. You're falling into that trap because we didn't learn that kind of stuff. Well, it's a common story too. I mean, that's not unusual. That's the rule, not the exception.
Speaker: Yeah, they dang up a big carrot in front of you. You want this? You got to do this. So cool. Yeah, I just wanted to ask you about the videos because it was such an extremely important part of it at that time when you were coming up in the time that you came up. Most of the older listeners would realize that. Some of the younger ones, maybe not so much. You can do a video now with a
Speaker: iPhone and a handycam or something right in and they put them out and the budgets are way less right most of the videos you would see Except for the really top ones now would have an even much lower budget. I would assume Yeah, but but the only thing with that and in the same is making music itself like you know You can make an album on your iPhone now with gradually. Yeah, so but but
Speaker: The market is so cluttered now with videos and bands and songs that it's hard to get notice. Back then, we were getting noticed because there was only one video channel, right? Much music and that was it and maybe some local video hits or something like that. So people like me, I would record it. You have the power hour and different segments and stuff like that, you record them.
Speaker: come back and you know check all the new bands and it was really important thing back then but now now it's just everything just gets lost in space you know yes that's a good point it's a good point because it's saturated now but i did see that video of you with erica and you did power hour and then you were on with dwayne ward i guess from the blue jays i watched that.
Speaker: Yeah, Dwayne Ward and there's another guy, he wasn't there for that day, but Pat Tabler, Dwayne Ward and Pat Tabler, they both sang our last record. They did some backing vocals and they won the World Series that year. And it's funny, Dwayne Ward, he was the middle relief pitcher, which means he came out around the sixth inning and
Speaker: he would come on before Tom Hanky. And then when he was to enter the field, we had a song that he sang on him and Dwayne and him and Pat Tabler called Bulletproof. So when he'd come onto the field, that was the music you would hear. So during the World Series, when they'd announced Dwayne Ward, you'd hear our music going on as he's walking to the mound. And it was such an awesome.
Speaker: Oh, dude, it was so exciting. It was so exciting. Super cool. I love it. Well, yeah, that's cool. And yeah, so I did watch that and you got to, you were on with Erica Ham. I did interview her. I talked to her for quite a while. So she's, she was reflecting back on those, back on those much days and stuff too. So she really enjoyed it. Cause she left shortly after that. She was there 84 and 94, I think. Yep. So he would have been one of the,
Speaker: one of the bands that you guys wrote in a park or something. I think Dwayne was throwing some balls. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that was good times. I miss those old much days.
Speaker: It was like, you know, the much music awards and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it was an exciting time. It kind of came and it went and it is what it is and it was what it was and they were good times for sure. And then I wanted to ask you about your singer because, I mean, Jerry McGee, like unbelievable vocals, man. I mean, I listened to like probably 15, 20 songs and the guy's voice is just fantastic. I mean, at one point he holds a high E, he hits a high E and sustains it.
Speaker: And it's not falsetto either. No, I know. He was amazingly good. And then to do the songs over, like he does a whole show, to sing at that level for every song is like, wow, like really impressive. I don't know. I hope people realize how great of a singer he is and was. I know he's passed away now, right?
Speaker: Yeah, it's crazy what he could do because he did nothing to take care of himself. You'd smoke and drink and no vocal lessons and no warmups. He'd just go out there and do it. And people like that, they just have a gift. They have a gift. And there's certain people, guys like Steven Tyler. Steven Tyler is like 73 years old now, and he still sings unbelievable.
Speaker: You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's, it baffles, you know, cause there's guys in their forties and like, I can name some guys that can't sing anymore. Well, fair enough. And I'm sorry, John, John Bon Jovi said. Yeah. Like he, he doesn't sing as good as you used to. Like they, now they got to lower their shoes, like two or three frets now. And I can't get the high notes anymore. And it's like, huh.
Speaker: Burton has suffered from that a little bit too. And then of course, Steve Perry admitted publicly, he said, I'm not Steve Perry anymore. Like, wow, that's the thing. So that it's, it's a gift that's fleeting. And, uh, but Jerry, um, you know, we broke up in 19, Brighton rock broke up basically 1993 or 92, I think it was 93. And then we didn't do nothing. You know, uh, you know, I started different bands here and there, but, uh, we got back together, like, you know, 20 years later.
Speaker: And it was like his voice was preserved or something. All those years he wasn't out there ruining his voice. So it was intact when we came back. So here we are going to England and stuff like that. Now Jerry's in his 50s and he's still hitting those same notes.
Speaker: Well, it was the same key. We're not doing it. I've been a singer my whole life since I was seven years old. When I listen to a singer, I can internalize what it takes to produce those notes and stuff. I was just blown away. Then I thought, well, and you guys toured a lot.
Speaker: like doing that okay do it at one night you can be a hero on monday night tuesday night wednesday night you know not so much but i mean if you went on an extended extended tour and he was able to pull that off you know two or three or four nights a week like that that's even more astounding do you mean four five six nights a week because that's all there we go yeah man we were full time when we hit the road we you know we had one night off sometimes we have a couple nights off because we had to travel there was so so much distance between
Speaker: But yeah, but sometimes he would struggle a little bit. I, you know, I'd have to admit that because sometimes you get these times and you get, you know, jet lag and stuff like that. So, you know, it's like, Hey, I can't, I can't do that one tonight, guys. No problem. But the strange thing about his voice, um, when he, when he did struggle, it was his lower register that would struggle.
Speaker: because he didn't have the power. All his power was the high, the upper range. Oh, interesting. Yes. He could always hit the high notes, but the stuff that was the morning is mid range. If he didn't have the really good sleep, he wouldn't be able to push it because it's interesting. Yeah. It was, it was a strange thing. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that because I did want to mention because, uh, Jerry McGee was your singer and he's passed away, I guess, just a few years ago now. Right. And we wanted to remember him, but also kudos to his ability. Cause it was shockingly good to hit a high E and sustain it. Almost no male singer could do that. Yeah. It's a, it's a rare breed. Yep. You're absolutely correct. And, uh, God bless them. Cause it was a, it was an honor to play with them all those years and, uh,
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Appreciate it. So you guys had some cool songs. I mean, that One More Try is a great song and you had some radio play with that and climbed the charts with that. I mean, obviously you never chart as high as you want to. That's the case for, I think, every band except Elton John, you know? But that was probably your most successful tune, right? Like, commercially?
Speaker: I would say so. Yeah, one more try. We had a good run with that one. And that's from our second record, Take a Deep Breath. And that's our biggest selling record. It was really popular in the UK, that record. And we got to go there three times. Oh, nice. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, that was nice. But even still, because like you mentioned, even in that song being a ballad, there is parts of that song where he's in the upper register singing with a raspy voice. And that was a new thing to Canadian radio. So a lot of AM stations wouldn't touch it.
Speaker: It's like, oh, it's too heavy, but it's a ballad. Yeah, but it's still getting, you know, it's still got power ballad, right? Yeah. Power ballad. But, you know, if we were a proven fact, like, if we, you know, like a Bon Jovi or Scorpions that had these power ballads, but they were already selling millions of records and then, right, you're a proven, but if you're, if you're like us trying to prove ourselves, you know, I don't know. I say, you know, it's the old thing. You gotta make it big somewhere else first to get notice in your own backyard. So,
Speaker: Yeah, so we found that out quite a bit, but yeah, we made the best of it.
Speaker: Cool. And then hanging high and dry. That's great. That's the one I remember of you guys's tunes the most. That's the one that's a cool song and a high production video too, but just, just, I thought the production was great and the vocals and more high vocals, but really good. And it's melodic too, right? Like you guys weren't screaming. You know, some of the, some of the heavier bands were had screamers for singers, right? Which I liked the melody and the melodic part of it.
Speaker: Well that was the thing with jerry cuz his prior band when i first see jerry there he was in a cover band called the rockers and he did a lot of screaming cuz he could pull that off no problem and when i had
Speaker: before Jerry, he was more melodic. If I was to compare his voice, he was more like Miles Goodwin from April Wine. He could sing high, but it was pleasant to the ears. It was a softer, safer sound, which was great for melodic rock. My manager at the time, he goes,
Speaker: Watch Try Jerry, he's like, I don't know man, I think he's too heavy for what I'm writing because I like to write more melodic type songs, more melodic rock.
Speaker: And it goes well, I you know, you should at least check him out. So then we had a meeting with him and You know, we had all the same taste. It's like wow. Okay. Well, maybe he will like this music I thought he would think we're too wimpy if anything right and so then he came and sang the songs that I had written I had written and He really brought a whole new life to the songs, you know, he had just an edge to him to you know to appeal to the rockers and
Speaker: But the melodies were there to appeal to the people that just like melodic sing -along music. So we try to cover all the angles there. So like a song like Hangin' High and Dry, it's like you mentioned, it's a harder song, but it's got a sing -along chorus and it's got melodies and stuff. And that's what we try to bring to the table.
Speaker: Yeah, no, that's good. I mean, like Young Wild and Free, he sounds almost like Brian Johnson there. So he's got the rasp, the high rasp rock sort of straight ahead vocal in there. Oh, it's there. Oh yeah, it's in there. He can sing melody and bring some flavor to it as well. Because I mean, that's always the rub for me with Brian Johnson. It's very, very much the same. It's almost monotone. It's that high nasally yelling.
Speaker: And it's the same. It works for them. So no slag on them. But if you want to sing a melody, it'd be a little tougher. Whereas as Jerry had both, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Well, even like we were mentioning earlier, both Fogarty there, like, you know, that guy's got that guy's got a heavy metal voice. He could, you know, but but he's got really melodic sing along songs.
Speaker: Which is which is great it's it's not he brings edge to a song that would you know somebody else might make it sound fluffy sounding he makes it he makes it more balls out you know which is cool I mean I love for him and that guy he does oh yeah he doesn't get enough you know respect yeah no I think that's right I saw him live too he's actually quite a good guitar player too better better than I even thought he played great live
Speaker: Yeah, and he wrote some hooks, man. That's for sure. Oh yeah, no doubt. So then a few other things. You did, Can't Stop the Earth from Shakin', a great song. And then you did that live on the David Foster Show. What was that about?
Speaker: David Foster had a variety show on CBC back then, and it didn't last long. So for that particular show, he had us, he had Barney Bentall, and he had Atlanta Miles. So we were the three musical guests for that particular episode. So what year would that have been? That would be about 89 -ish. About 89, yeah? Yeah. Cool. Yeah, so that was, and when you seen that, that was live.
Speaker: That wasn't us lip syncing. That was totally live. The only thing they edited was my guitar lead so they could squeeze it in. And I was pissed off because I nailed that lead that night.
Speaker: Where's my lead? Are you kidding me? But David took me aside and said, hey, man, I just got to let you know, we're going to probably have to clip your lead as well as the other bands because we only have an hour and we've got to fit it all in with all. So yep, no worries. So it's a pretty flawless edit. And when you're looking at the video, you can't tell that the lead got edited out. All of a sudden, just the song, hey, wait a minute, what happened to the guitar lead?
Speaker: Yeah. Well, that's cool. No, that was, of course, it's one of those neat experiences, right? Like when you, when you're going through your ride that you're taking, you have these neat experiences. And I just, I caught that one and I thought, well, I gotta ask him about that. Then the David Foster connection is always, is always cool. Right. Oh, I worship David Foster, man. That guy's, that guy's beyond legend. Yeah. You know, and I was a real fan boy when I was talking to him and stuff like that. You know, I mean, even the stuff he did was saying almost fire.
Speaker: Like, oh, I loved all that stuff, you know? Oh, no, he's a, he's a genius level, uh, guy, you know, but, and then it's funny cause I watched Hollywood shuffle and, uh, that's a cool video. I mean, did you shoot that in LA? No, that was Toronto. It's, it's all an illusion. It looks like we had, uh,
Speaker: a video guy go down to LA. Like we did, we were down there quite a bit. We recorded, we did all the songwriting for that record, Hollywood Shuffle, all in LA. We were down there for three months just to get the buy. We were waiting Hollywood and Sunset. So we were, you know, going to the rock scene, the whiskey and the rainbow, like every night getting the whole thing. But the video itself was in Toronto, but we had a, the guy that filmed the video,
Speaker: He actually went back to Los Angeles just to get some footage of Los Angeles and then he interjected it with us. I kind of thought that because I thought, well, I mean, for sure it opens with all the shots from LA.
Speaker: It's cool photography. No, that's okay. I mean, that's because you just come up here and do it at the soundstage and then insert the clips, but it certainly was cool. And then your drummer, I have to say, like he's totally excellent. I mean, all the shots and that and he's really tight playing and really, really good. He's a phenomenal drummer. When we were recording our last record, which was Hollywood shuffle, he had a, when we weren't, uh, gigging and stuff like that, he had a weekend bandwidth. Are you familiar with Phil X?
Speaker: No, he replaced Richie Sanborra and Bon Jovi. So okay. Yeah. Yeah. So he's the good. He's been the guitar player for Bon Jovi for five, 10 years now. Okay. And he's from Toronto. And so that, yeah, so he, every time we weren't playing, he would, he would gig with Phil Lax. He had a three piece, which was really awesome. So yeah, he always kept his chops up big time. And he's one of those lifers too. You know, he's one of those guys that would,
Speaker: practice a lot. Instead of just learning the song to do the gig, this guy would practice because he just wanted to learn more, not just to learn the song for the set. I played with guys like that. They never practice. They just learn what's necessary to do the gig and that's it. They never pick their stuff up again.
Speaker: Or, you know, Mark would get the soundcheck early to make sure, you know, everything's all in and he'd practice and stuff. Well, he's just ripping. I mean, you know, when you watch a video, you sort of what, you know, you think to yourself, well, what jumps out at me? And, you know, the guitar riffs are cool and the singing is cool. It's a cool video. But then the drummer, I'm like, holy cow, this guy's just ripping. Oh, no, he's pure fire. And, you know, the old saying, you know, your band's only as good as your drummer. You got a half ass drummer? Well, you got a half ass band, you know, you got a drummer back there pushing.
Speaker: and been driving like that. It only helps big time. And then you're doing the LA thing. You're doing the big ripping guitar solo with your shirt off. Yeah, I'm not so much for sure. I'm happy with that. Looking back at the time. Why not? Actually, you must have been told you look like Brian McLeod a little bit.
Speaker: I hear different things. Yeah. I've heard that before. Yeah. I've heard that. Yeah. Well, he was a big deal on the west coast because he lived here, right? So we saw him quite a bit, but that sort of reminded me of it. Then are you playing a BC rich there? Is that what your guitar is?
Speaker: Um, for what Hollywood shuffle. Yeah. Hollywood shuffle. That's a Lado L A D O. Okay. Yeah. I thought it was a Kramer or something maybe, but, uh, the body shape was a bit different. So I wasn't sure. Yeah. If you look at the, our very first video, we came to rock. That's a BC rich. That's a BC rich iron bird guitar. And then I got an endorsement with Lado. So then they built my guitars from that point on. And that's all used to this day. I said, still my main guitars. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, very cool. Well, that's neat. And then I wanted to ask you too, you re -recorded Creatures of the Night. What was the deal with that? Because that was his tune, right? Yeah, there's, I don't know if you're familiar with a, there's a podcaster, the guy's name is Mitch Lafon. Yeah, and he interviews a lot of rock stars, you know, you name and he's interviewed him, you know, Whitesnake and everybody, right?
Speaker: And he mentioned that his father, it was his father or his father -in -law was dealing with cancer and they wanted to raise money for a hospice. So he's a huge, huge kiss band and he decided to do a tribute album to Kiss and he would invite his favorite bands and stuff, hey, would you mind maybe covering a Kiss song and we're gonna make a vinyl record and CD and stuff like that.
Speaker: Bright and Rock, we were offered, I said, well, let me, when we got the offer, I said, let me see what everybody else is, because everybody's going to pick Beth and Detroit, Rock City, The Obvious, Rock -A -Roll -O -Night, The Obvious song. So then when I seen everybody else is doing it, I said, okay, well, all the good ones, the obvious ones are taken. So now I got to do a deep dive. And I wanted to make sure that whatever we did wasn't just
Speaker: like the same as them, because then you didn't really bring anything to the table, because no matter how good you think you did it, it's never gonna be as good as the original, because that's what people are familiar with, right? Yeah, fair enough, yeah. Yeah, so I wanted to, so I just literally just went album to album, song by song, you know, it's like, and for some reason, if you hear the original version of Creatures of the Night, it's a really hard driving fast song. But the cording arrangement,
Speaker: I heard it and I went, you know what? I'm liking the chord progressions and stuff like that. Maybe I could strip it right down, make it an acoustic and make it, instead of being hard, fast paced, make it more moody and haunting sounding. So I changed the key, changed the tempo drastically and we made it into a haunting version.
Speaker: And when Jerry first heard it, he goes, what the hell is this? Because he was familiar with the other one. I go, just trust me, man. Just sing it a few times and see if you can start to feel it. At first he didn't like it. He goes, I don't know. I'm not feeling it, man. Just keep going, man. Just keep going. So then you do a few takes and then I go, take it home with you, man. And then he fell in love with it. He goes, you know what? I get it now. I love it. I love it.
Speaker: And that was it. So then that was Mitch. He said that was one of the most popular songs on the record. Because of that, we just didn't do a copycat of the original song. We totally reimagined the song. Yeah, right. Well, in the 2013 version, I think you do an acoustic guitar solo in there, which is really nice. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, yeah. We did a video for it and everything. So people are listening.
Speaker: Look up bright and rock creatures the night on youtube there it is yeah no it's cool i watched it and you know it was neat so and i i know what you're saying because otherwise you're just doing it sort of a carbon copy version of the actual song and then it's like that doesn't really i mean that's cool and everything but uh it just sounds like trying to sound like the original like a cover band would do the song right
Speaker: Well, it's a thing. People are so used to hearing it one way. So if you're trying to copy it, is it really better? Like it's it's not because people just, you know, like like singing Beth, you're never going to sing it better than him. But technically you might. But people still like the original version. That's just the way it was embedded in your. I know. And then it was well, it was Peter Christ that sang it. Right. Right.
Speaker: I think after he left the band, Gene would never let them play that song, right? So they don't think they ever, cause Eric, I guess the other drummer wanted to sing it and Gene said no. And then I think finally he relented or something, I don't know.
Speaker: You know, the big thing about that was just ego. The fact that all eyes weren't on Gene and Paul for that flop. They had to leave the stage and they're back there twiddling your fingers. How much longer? Is the song almost done? We got to get back.
Speaker: Wow. So then, so you did the three albums. I mean, you guys were, you were young guys, you had videos, you're on much music, you got the tunes, you got the talent. I mean, you were the consummate eighties band, right? And then, so you must've thought, well, we've made it, right? I mean, if you talk about making it, like we used to talk about in the seventies and stuff, I mean, you guys made it. You must've felt like you're on the top of the world in some ways, right? But then you had the record deals, kind of the pressure, like you talked about earlier, and then they eventually went away after that three album deal.
Speaker: Well, we asked to get released when the third record was done because like our first record, we got signed, like we got it. We signed a Canadian record contract, but we also signed an American contract for the first record. Right. So even though we were committed to Canada, Atlantic Records, Adco Atlantic, they signed the band also, but Canada still owned us.
Speaker: Right. So then the second record come out, the American company passed on us. And the same with the third record, they passed on us. And then we soon, you know, if you're not signed by an American record company, you're not going to break the states. It's just a simple fact. Anybody that's big out of Canada, like Brian Adams and Loverboy and all that, they all sign American contracts. And that's just the way it is. So
Speaker: When their third record came out in Brighton Rock, we're basically big in Canada and in the UK and stuff like that. But we did tour the States, but we couldn't make a dent because we couldn't get released there. So then we thought, okay, if we're really going to take a shot at this, we fulfilled our contract. We asked if we can get released early.
Speaker: because we wanted to pursue an American record deal. So we, we, you know, we hire, we fired our manager. We said, we're gonna get an American manager, same guys that, you know, manages Def Leppard and Bon Jovi and Molly. Like, we already, we know their names. We know the contacts. We got all that. Let's get those guys on board and then they'll get us American record contract. And then we can finally make it, make it. And, uh, this was 1992, the beginning of grunge and stuff like that, you know?
Speaker: So it never happened. We couldn't, we couldn't land the big guys, you know? Everybody that was interested there, they were small fish. It's like, huh, you're not really much better than what we've already had. You know, we want a major record deal. We don't want independent stuff. And it all kind of just fizzled out. And by then, you know, you know, we were together for 10 years and we were sick of everything, you know? So the writing was on the wall.
Speaker: Yeah, well, fair. I wanted to ask you about that because I've heard from a number of people that, you know, to make it in the States, you have to have a U .S. record deal. That's one thing. But the other thing is they have to like you and pump a ton of money into you. And it's it is a pay for play to a large extent, even though it's never said overtly. But, you know, the independent record promoters and all the greasing of the palms and the commitment by the record company to write some big checks to make everything happen. Like if you don't have that,
Speaker: You can be the best man in the world, but this is not going to work. Yeah. Well, you know, I'll be honest when my first relative check was $10 ,000.
Speaker: You know what I went to? I went right to one of those guys that's greasing palms in the States. There you go. Yeah. I didn't see a scent of it. He went right to him and he's, you know, hey, man, you know, let me take you out for dinner and put my, put my new band out of Bright and Rock and, you know, and that's small to potatoes compared to the big, big bands. They're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and get them drugs and concert tickets and whatever they want, man. Here, man, put us on, you know, we got to get the number one and, uh,
Speaker: That's the way it was back then, and it was almost mafia. Well, I read Tommy James' book, and it's called Me Music and the Mafia, and his record executive in New York was a mob guy. He was completely connected, so he would dictate to different bands and phone other record companies and say, you can't have that band, I'm signing them.
Speaker: Okay, Mr. Levy. But you know what I mean? So the dirty side of the business, you don't talk about it very much. You turn over a few of those rocks and you realize what's actually happening has very little to do with you or me or the songs you write or the videos or anything. It has to do with all that dirty business that goes on underneath everything.
Speaker: disheartening if you only knew. I'm just speaking on behalf of my band. I've talked to tons of other bands too that went way worse than us. They spent thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars trying to crack that code and it just went all down the drain.
Speaker: So what would you, looking back now as an older gentleman like myself, what would you do differently if you had to do it again and you were able to change a few things? What would you do? I don't know. I mean, I, if I, if I could maybe learning legal, uh, jargon more like the contracts and stuff like that and the business part.
Speaker: Paying attention more of that kind of stuff, you know because We just we wanted to keep our head down because every time they would start throwing the business stuff at us It starts clouding your judgment and then you're taking your eye off the ball, which is making music That was this of course. Yeah, you want me to make a hit record? I have to be thinking about that and that only you start giving all these other things
Speaker: business stuff and it starts making you mad and sad and it takes your eye off the ball. That's why you see a lot of these big bands, their biggest records is when they first come out because once they start getting the third, fourth record, they're so into the business part of it and now they're making money now and then music becomes secondary. It's not their main focus now.
Speaker: Now they're thinking about, how come that guy's got a Porsche? I want a Porsche. Look at the host. Plus, I mean, and they ride you like a rented mule too, right? You're touring, you're writing, you're recording, you're doing radio hits, you're doing much music hits, you're doing a whole list of things. Your schedule's fairly full and then they want these masterful hit songs out of you too. Exactly. Yep. Absolutely. When exactly is that supposed to happen?
Speaker: What's the thing? You know, like when you're an unknown band, you've got nothing but time on your hands to create all these songs. And once you start getting a little bit of success, they're pulling in different directions. Hey, I know you want to work on that song, but we need you for an in -store. Hey, we need you for this whole interview. Hey, I need you to come down to, you got to get up at five o 'clock in the morning. You got to do the morning show here. And it's like, well, we just went to bed at three in the morning. I know. And then you're tired all day. And then it's like, it's,
Speaker: Yeah. So yeah, it's lots of stuff to complain about, but I don't want to do that, man. Well, no, but from where you sit today, looking back on that, I mean, so you had a, basically a less than a 10 year, maybe a 10 year run. I mean, that much just looked like a blur at this point, you know, looking back, it must have came at you at a hundred miles an hour and gone by really quickly. It did. It really, really did. You know, and people were, Hey man, remember this gig? It's like, no, man, I don't remember. It's just, it's a blur.
Speaker: Like, you know, now we, you know, the, the band I'm in now, Storm Force, working on our second record. You know, we don't do too many gigs. So then everything you do is an event. It's like, oh my God, everything's around that one gig, you know, back in Bright and Rock, we do a gig and next night we're doing another gig and another gig. So then everything just kind of, it's just a blur.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, fair enough. It's interesting because it's a better vantage point, I suppose, now to look back on it. And then I have to ask you about the Helix experience because after Brighton Rock split up, and then of course Paul Hackman died from Helix, and then you became the guitar player, one of the guitar players in Helix. How did that come about? Well, we used to do shows with Helix. We did some little touring with them.
Speaker: So we knew the guys and the bass player in Helix, Darryl Gray, he's another Niagara Falls guy too. So when Bright and Rock broke up, Helix wasn't on the road for a while. He had a weekend band just playing covers called Skirby Dogs. It's just a three -piece and they're playing all the good rock songs and he goes, and then you need a guitar player. Hey, hey, Frays, you want to come and play? And I go, I'm not doing nothing. Okay, I'll go and have some fun.
Speaker: So then I became his weekend band guitar player and when Paul passed away, they already knew me and I was already playing with Darrow so I kind of had him in. So I joined the band replacing Paul.
Speaker: And I was with them for about three years, at least three years. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, cause I remember when Paul died because it was in BC, it was on a famous highway that I've driven a thousand times and it was a big deal. I mean, it was on the news and I did interview Brian as well. And I talked to him about that. It was a very difficult time for them, right? Obviously in their band and that's everyone's worst nightmare. We've all kind of almost fallen asleep, driving the middle of the night to get to the next gig and stuff like so.
Speaker: It wasn't that surprising. It was sad, but it wasn't, you know, overly shocking because we've all sort of been there, you know. Yep. And the, and the bass player, I was just talking to Odero who I played in Scurvy Dogmas. He was in the van. He survived the crash. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was, that was a real shock. Yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say, why didn't you stay with Helix? Well, by
Speaker: By 95, that's when Grunge was in full effect. I was just tired of the road. The thing is, it wasn't my band. I was just a hired gun. Bright and Rock, that was my band. I founded that band with Stevie, my bass player.
Speaker: You know, they were my songs. So I had more of an attachment with Helix. Like when I joined the band, Brian was using it. He wasn't even using the band to make the Helix record. He had an outside writer, a guy named, is it Paul Ribbler or Mark Ribbler? I think his name out of New York. Okay. Yeah. So he wrote the whole Helix record with this guy from New York.
Speaker: And then the next record he was going to do, that's what he planned on doing again. So it's like, I'm not going to be even involved in the songwriting. And that's what I am. I'm a songwriter. So I kind of felt stifled a bit. But don't get me wrong, I had some great times with those guys. We had some gigs and some great tours and stuff like that.
Speaker: You know and grunge was 1995. That's when grunge was in full effect. So yeah, yeah, nobody, you know, we're old news Whether it's he looks or brighten rock or anybody of that genre It's like oh god, you those look at these dinosaurs, you know Well, I think that's right that the time sort of shifted you were in the mid 90s now with the grunge and and so the 80s thing had kind of You know, they did their thing and it was it was sort of past that point. I was past its best before date I guess as you'd say
Speaker: You're right. Yep. So then, you know, around 95, I said, I think I've done the road, man. You know, I've been doing it for God, 20, 20 years now. And, uh, I need a break. I, you know, it'd be nice to sleep on my own bed for a long period of time and have the weekends off for a change. So what did you do? Did you go get a day gig or something?
Speaker: Yeah, a little day jobs here and there. And I started teaching guitar lessons and I had a lot of students, which was pretty fulfilling. And then I worked in a magazine, a rock and roll magazine based out of Niagara. And like I said, weekend bands and stuff like that.
Speaker: keep the thing going. But it was, it was a nice, you know, there's one thing about being a full -time musician. You do miss a lot, you know? I mean, I missed all my favorite concerts. I miss weddings. I miss birthdays. You miss, you miss tons and tons and tons of stuff. And after a while, you see, you kind of, you know, I wouldn't mind going to watch that movie. You know, so that was a nice, that was a nice change. It was a welcome change, but good.
Speaker: but i don't miss doing the full -time touring that's one thing you know like where it's that's how i gotta make my living i gotta just hop in the van or a station wagon or a bus or whatever those long killer drives like uh yeah that's that's what killed me like i in the 80s i toured quite a bit and i came back in 89 i came back to vancouver and said i'm just gonna make a living around here and
Speaker: You know, it's, it's been good for me. I pop out of town, but I'm, I've got my show bands and stuff and I've done, you know, millions of dollars worth of gigs, but I've just done them out of Vancouver. So I could actually, you know, raise my kids and my wife would see me once in a while. And I just, I could never have been a road musician. It would have killed me. What's the thing, you know, like in, in, in, uh, when it's, when I turned 34 is when I got married and then, you know, had a couple of kids and, uh,
Speaker: Yeah, so now I'm just, you know, basically the same as you. Based on Inager Falls, we got a new band going and it's still making music. Well, tell me about that. Stormforce is the band, right? Stormforce, yeah. We released our debut record February 2020, just in time for COVID. That's right. It timed it perfectly.
Speaker: Yep. Record got released. Got rave reviews. All right. Let's start gigging. Cool. I don't think so. Yeah. So where's that available? Is that, have you got a website and stuff for that we can let our listeners know about? Yep. We've got videos out. It's, it's storm. So S T O R M force M F O R C E. And we have a website storm force .ca.
Speaker: And we've got a YouTube channel, stuff like that. And we've got Facebook and Twitter. I did take a quick peek at it. I was mostly focused on the Brighton Rock because our focus is retro Canadian music makers. But I definitely want you to plug your new stuff too, because I think I applaud the fact that you're still playing and I just think it's great, man. You're an inspiration to people and I try to be as well.
Speaker: just because we got a bit older, we can still crank out some good tunes and enjoy ourselves playing and spread the musical joy. That's what my philosophy is, I spread musical joy as much as I can. That's what it's all about, man. After the Helix thing broke up, I had a solo band called Phrase Gang, F -R -A -Z -E. I did a couple of records with that also and stuff like that. But Stormforce is my main focus right now.
Speaker: We have a gig coming April 30th. We're at the warehouse here. It's already sold out in Niagara here. So really excited about that. So yeah, if you get a chance, check us out, man. If you lay bright and rock, you'll love us also. Absolutely. No, I will check it out. And if I'm ever back there again, I always come to Niagara Falls when we go to Ontario, because we go to Guelph and see our family. And then I pop up to Niagara Falls just for a few nights to chill and hang out and stuff, because I love it there so much. So that's very cool.
Speaker: Well, if you ever done this way, look me up, man. Absolutely. Oh, that's great. And, uh, yeah, thanks for taking the time. It's, it's kind of an in -depth conversation, but I appreciate all the things that you shared and sharing your experience and experiences with us. And the fact that you're still out there doing it and still smiling about it is really cool. Well, thanks for having me on, Dan. I mean, this is awesome. I really, uh, had a good time talking with you, you know? Yeah. You asked some good questions and instead of just the standard ones and, uh, yeah, it's a real treat, man. Thank you.
Speaker: Many thanks to Greg Fraser for being part of the Llanternodes podcast and sharing some insights from his incredible experiences in the music business. And more information is available on brightenrock .ca. And of course you just heard about the Stormforce website. So we hope you enjoyed the podcast and invite you to subscribe to it and share it on social media so others can enjoy it as well. And you can also become a member.
Speaker: if you'd like other notifications and inside information. We also invite you to listen to Dusty Disc Radio Tuesdays and Thursdays to hear music from the Canadian artists you're hearing on this show. So until next time, I'm Dan Han.
