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Young Justice Season 4 Ep 18 Beyond the Grip of the Gods!
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Zuhair finally returns to join J Scotty to discuss and react to the 18th episode of Young Justice Phantoms and the start of a new Rocket focused story arc!
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Transcript
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00:00:00
Speaker
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Introduction to Young Justice S4E18
00:00:30
Speaker
On another exciting entry of Animation Deliberation, we cover the 18th episode of the fourth season of Young Justice, aka Phantoms, beyond the grip of the gods. And we'll get right into that after some ads. We have no say over whatsoever. You're invited to explore cypress swamps and magical gardens and float along the rushing waters of an old-fashioned swimming hole. Plan your journey at visitmississippi.org slash outdooradventure. Mississippi. Wanderers welcome.
00:01:14
Speaker
Sing along if you know the
Meet the Hosts: Jay Scottie St. Clair and Suher Ali
00:01:15
Speaker
words. A one, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation. A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, welcome back to animation deliberation, the podcast that takes action animation and cartoons seriously, but not too seriously. I am your host, Jay Scottie St. Clair.
00:01:42
Speaker
And that somewhat tempered, yeah, that you just heard was from my co-host Suher Ali making his, I won't say full on triumphant return, but it is great to have you back, buddy. I know you were busy with the helmet of fate and doing your duty to to Naboo and whatnot, but definitely good to have you back. We missed you. How you feeling, my friend?
Suher Ali's Experience with the Helmet of Fate
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, man, the helmet of fate is pretty wild, but I think I have allergies to some of that mystic magic that comes with it. Not looking forward to my turn again as I'm still getting rid of the repercussions of the first go around, but hey, it's a wild ride and I'm here.
00:02:23
Speaker
Definitely good to have you back. We certainly missed you. And when I refer to we, not only the listeners, myself, but also our compatriot, Andrew Rogers, unfortunately, he's not here today. He is, you know, doing his auditions for the Justice League reserves, but we definitely miss him. And he did a very stalwart effort filling in as we covered the first four episodes of this return to season four.
Tribute to Rene Auberjonois
00:02:50
Speaker
But before we get your thoughts on the episodes that you weren't around to give your thoughts on, this episode that we're covering, episode 18, was dedicated to the memory of a Young Justice alumni. And you've got that information pulled up for us, so let us know what's going on there.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, the voice actor for Blockbuster in the first season, Rene Abergena passed away on December 8th, 2019 at the age of 79. He also worked as Odo on Star Trek Deep Space Nine. He was Chef Louis on The Little Mermaid and many more things. He has quite the repertoire and, yeah, rest in peace.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, we appreciate the talent that he lent to the show, voicing Walkbuster. And yeah, Chef Louis from Little Mermaid is probably the one that I recognize the most. But yeah, it sounded like he had a very celebrated career.
00:03:58
Speaker
79 is not terribly, terribly old, but it's also a nice long and full life. So I don't know the exact circumstances of his death, but it's nice to see the show pay homage to him and dedicate this episode to his memory. It's one of those weeks where I can't help but also think of Moon Knight. Their episode was dedicated to an actor that passed away as well, Gaspard Goudier, who portrayed the character that might've gone on to play Midnight Man, but that's neither here nor there.
00:04:28
Speaker
Oh, he had lung cancer that spread to his brain. Oh, is that what happened? Oh, terrible. Thoughts with his friend's family and all the people that he worked with that are missing him. Live life to the fullest, my friends. It's way too short. Indeed, indeed. Well, it's kind of hard to pivot from such a dour note there, but
00:04:55
Speaker
We do have a show to celebrate here. It is the podcast that conversates and celebrates our favorite action animated series. So, Zuher, you weren't around for the first two episodes of coverage that we did on the return to Young Justice Phantoms. Let me know, what do you think? And I won't ask you to do the scale from yeah to yeah, because I know that won't be kind on your voice, but let me know what you think. Yeah, I tried doing it with Matt on that one episode.
00:05:21
Speaker
I just about coughed my insides out. Let's not repeat that. Yeah, this show is just great. I loved everything on the Aquaman arc. I was surprised. He just kind of threw all of it at once and then just only had his way for the finale.
00:05:36
Speaker
So I'm not sure how I felt about it just being so rushed. I'm enjoying weekly coverage, especially since it was three episodes. I just didn't have the time to watch it. And I was like, I'm going to have to miss this. And then I had to play catch up. And then that was an episode behind the end. Works insane in case you guys haven't been able to tell. So, yeah.
00:05:57
Speaker
I'm absolutely loving the show. I'm loving the pacing. And I kind of relate it to like phase two of the MCU where we have like our characters established, but they're making references to like other things that are happening and essentially building this bigger
Story Arcs in Young Justice vs MCU
00:06:13
Speaker
story. I know that we had talked in the first part.
00:06:16
Speaker
about how we like the arc system but we kind of like miss things happening and referencing and pacing and i feel like they're kind of giving us the boasts where they started off with the arcs but now like all this stuff is tying together you know with the
00:06:30
Speaker
pillar of fire coming in and Dr. Faden's a ton of checking it out in the disappearing. It's almost like that happened in another movie and they made the reference to this one, right? Yeah, for sure. So the fact that they actually took the time to start off with one and kind of like funnel out instead of it just being strictly arcs, like it's just such a great balance of both. And, you know, we have a few more left. I think we're tinkling a little bit of Superboy. We got Rocket, which we're starting on today. And, you know, as always, the
00:07:00
Speaker
The humor the pacing and then just kind of like the inclusiveness that everything's been Incorporating into the show. It's just really beautiful to watch Yeah, well said I like the comparison there to the MCU Imagining these like three or four episode arcs as their own films that you focus on a particular set of characters and then you get the Crossover event later on that's that's that's a nice comparison there
00:07:24
Speaker
Yeah, I was, I was bummed, but kind of happy that I couldn't make it for the episode where
00:07:32
Speaker
Halo was you know talking about Islam and trying to connect with that and everything and the reason that I was saying that I was happy for it is like it's one thing for me to be able to Explain my perspective on it. I was excited to hear what people who were unfamiliar with it got out of that because that was the whole purpose of that scene was to educate and light it and you know kind of open the door and have that
00:07:57
Speaker
option to understand what the culture was like. So hearing you guys actually be able to talk about it was, I think, more powerful than me explaining it because I got to see if they succeeded in their mission and explaining what their objective was.
00:08:17
Speaker
Oh, well, thank you for saying that. That means a lot. We definitely missed you and didn't want to misspeak without having you here. But yeah, it's why I continue to love the show so much outside of the awesome action that delivers the great character development and whatnot.
00:08:32
Speaker
the attention to detail when it comes to social issues and just educating because we know that animation is not just for kids, it's also for adults, but a lot of the younger people are tuning in to this show. So it's just really heartwarming to know that the show is doing that excellent a job tackling those issues.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, anybody who goes out of their way to shut down someone who's trying to understand and ask questions, like that's immediate disrespect. Like if somebody actually takes the time to ask questions and understand a culture or a concept or anything that's considered a social issue these days, like they deserve to be.
00:09:12
Speaker
you know, treated with the opportunity to potentially be given answers or at least be given some perspective. So, you know, anytime that anybody has a question, whether it be a culture or race or ethnicity or anything like that, like I'm always open to answer it. But I think it's only offensive when people assume if somebody is genuine, like, hey, I want to learn, you know, you can't rag somebody for that. Yeah, definitely not. The pursuit of knowledge is one of the highest callings, in my opinion.
00:09:43
Speaker
I'm always wary of those people that act like they have all the answers. Those are the people you can't trust. Those are the cult leaders. But anyway, did you have anything else you wanted to say about the episodes that you did not get to give your thoughts on yet?
00:09:58
Speaker
Not so much about the episodes themselves. There was one point where when you guys were talking about the Anak title, like I perceived it as like referring to him like as King or Sire or something. So I mean, I was listening, I think yesterday when I was driving around for work trying to catch up before recording today. So that was one of those things where it's like.
00:10:20
Speaker
Man, they didn't catch on to that. I wish I was there to say that, but I was like, you know what? Either one of them is going to look it up or TJ is going to write it. So they're good. So when I listened to the latest episode, and of course all this stuff was put out, I'm like, I love my guys. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was fairly self-explanatory, but again, it's coming from that perspective of not wanting to assume anything and trusting the show to give us the answers as well as our dedicated listeners.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, so anything I want, I want it said, I think was just kind of brought up already. So we're good. I mean, there's stuff I wanted to say like about the show in general, and I guess then can start our our coverage of the episode. One of the things that impresses me about this is typically when it comes to superhero content.
00:11:02
Speaker
they draw references from the comic books, where people feel like they need to read up on the comics to understand the characters that are being introduced. What I find fascinating about Young Justice, and they've been doing this for a couple of seasons now, but I'm noticing the trend more and more, is that they're referencing their other titles in film and movies, specifically the DCEU and the CW shows.
00:11:28
Speaker
Oh, interesting. So when they had the whole thing with Leviathan, they didn't need to explain who all that was because a majority of the people have seen Aquaman already.
00:11:36
Speaker
Right. So there was a lot of like similarities and parallels with characters that they've had before, uh, the way that they introduced robot man and patrol because they have three seasons of the show, there was a familiarity. Uh, we had during the, um, the justice league reserves, they were talking about peacemaker. And of course there's a show in a movie off of him. So yeah, fans instantly knew who that was. And then our newest character that we had in the episode today, Ray, he was in,
00:12:03
Speaker
one of the CW crossovers when they went back in time and they were stuck in one of the timelines or one of the multiverses with Nazi Germany. Oh, okay. I hate to correct you there, but if I'm not mistaken, I believe the Rey is a separate character
Orion and Darkseid Connections
00:12:20
Speaker
from a light Rey. Light Rey is a new God and there is the character, the Rey, who they actually had animated webtoon about as well, but I could see why it'd be easy to make that mistake.
00:12:30
Speaker
Not to take away from your point at all. The synergy is definitely there. Especially I would call out the peacemaker. And it's interesting that you bring up Doom Patrol because we'll get into some of the revelations that came with mystery characters that had been kind of floating around. But I could not help but notice two characters that share a surname. That's all I'll say for now. They were both voiced by Phil Morris, who actually portrays Silas Stone on Doom Patrol.
00:13:00
Speaker
Oh, cool. Yeah, so the synergy is definitely there. Yeah, that's just one of those things that's impressed me with DC is that they just keep referring to characters that we kind of have some familiarity through their own TV shows and not necessarily just a raw comic material. Yeah, definitely.
00:13:19
Speaker
With that in mind, I'm really glad that they decided to focus on Rocket, Raquel, because we had speculated in our previous coverage, we knew we were going into a new arc, we hadn't got the promotional images yet, and we speculated. It's either going to be Rocket, because we have that opening sequence where we get to see the founding members, including Zatanna, and Rocket, or it could possibly focus back on Nightwing and maybe
00:13:42
Speaker
Red Hood because that's a character that's been teased a bit. But for my purposes, I'm really glad that they chose to go with Rocket because she's always been there. She's always been on the periphery. We saw her join the team at the end of season one and have a little bit of action there. And we knew she was icon sidekick and whatnot. But outside of that, outside of a few side appearances here and there, I didn't know anything about her. I didn't know where her powers came from. I didn't know how her powers exactly worked.
00:14:07
Speaker
And it was just, we still didn't get all the answers in this episode, but it was great to start to get a little bit of a peek about who Rocket really is and what makes her tick and what her motivations are.
00:14:19
Speaker
Yeah, not that I doubt Young Justice at all, but when they put her on that cover and with that fantastic theme, my first reaction was make me care because I have so much of a connection with all these other characters already and I'm excited to see more of them. If you're going to put a four episode arc towards Rocket, my very important thing was make me care.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I think the first episode was a good step towards that. It wasn't like, oh my God, we're wasting time with Rocket. Not that the show really does too much with that, except for saying forage or bajillion times
Rocket's Son and Autism Representation
00:14:56
Speaker
over and over again. But I think they're on a good step. And I'm not worried about the arc, if that makes sense. It does seem to be a bigger picture than just her. Sure. But for what they're what they seem to be going with, it doesn't seem like
00:15:11
Speaker
Man, we had to spend four episodes on this. Yeah, yeah. Not at this point in time anyway. And it's where the show kind of helps fill in the gaps a little bit. I loved the episode that we just came off of that closed the Atlantean arc because it basically, for the most part, took place in Atlantis. We didn't have these little cutaways to differing storylines and whatnot. And I really enjoyed that change of pace.
00:15:37
Speaker
We jumped around quite a bit. We had Rocket's opening scene with her son that we can discuss in detail. But then from there, it really becomes like this ambassador mission with her, Jay Garrick, and Forger going to the planet of New Genesis. And that was all intercut with visits to Apocalypse as well as little snippets of what Superboy had going on in what we now have confirmed to be the Phantom Zone.
00:16:04
Speaker
So I do want to talk about the opening scene with her son, because we had seen Amistad before. I recall it was the episode in season three, I want to say it was Home Fires, where we actually had Orm stalking the various heroes that were collecting at Barry Allen's house, I believe it was for the baby shower. I think so. Okay. Well, I remember Amistad like really standing out to me even when he was younger, because I think it was when Karen Bumblebee
00:16:33
Speaker
came to the door and Rocket answered and had Amistad in her arms. He was like, that's a baby in that belly or something like that. And it was played for a comedic effect. But I was like, why would this kid respond like that? And it just makes so much more sense in retrospect. And I feel a little bit bad about laughing at it back then. But it really felt like it was played for comedic purposes at that point in time. So I don't feel that bad. But now, just getting the full picture, it became very obvious to me very quickly
00:17:03
Speaker
that Amistad was suffering from some form of, excuse me, from autism. At first I was wondering, is this just like a bad voice performance from an adult trying to sound like a child, which happens sometimes, it does happen. But no, he clearly has some sensory issues in terms of wanting his car to be facing with the wheels up, needing his wool hat, and then the black and white cookie,
00:17:32
Speaker
Even on the train, when the train didn't stop at the correct stop, that was a nice little shout out to the through line of 16. They always stop at 16th Street. We know this takes place in universe 16. What did you think about all that stuff and getting that little insight into Rocket's personal life and what she has going on with her son as well as her... I don't know if it was former husband or just former partner.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah, I kind of wanted to say baby daddy for the sake of conversation. That works. So I'll assume and if they correct me later on, good for them. I think it's one of those things that it's like it's not even to feel bad for because they kind of like hit their objective with that and how people just don't notice and don't realize because we sure as hell didn't notice. We just thought it was a
00:18:19
Speaker
weird bit. And yeah, sure. So again, like they have an objective there, you know, there's an understanding that cases like this aren't typically noticed in this episode. However, I did kind of pick it up right off the bat because that's something that my cousin deals with. Oh, OK. There was actually, you know, one point I was visiting and like all the doors had to be closed at all time. Like even if you're working on something or moving something around or, you know, we're just sitting together and everything.
00:18:48
Speaker
And if you try to like open the door and leave it there, tell them no, like it was be like a freak out moment. Oh, OK. So once I saw the the cars needing to be up, that's when I was like, oh, he's autistic or he's somewhere on the spectrum, you know, because there's different variations, there's different levels. So if you guys do want information on that, just type in like autism spectrum and you can find like the variations of it, because there are some people who are very distinct with it and some who just kind of have like their nuances that bother them. Right. Sure.
00:19:18
Speaker
So that's another another part of that was that people who are on the spectrum like don't like to be touched like okay like that so when she was getting frustrated and trying to grab him like that triggers him even more so right yeah it was they did a very well job at
00:19:36
Speaker
Depicting that because again like somebody who recognizes it was like oh, that's what he's dealing with and people who aren't or just kind of like what's going on and It was very important that they had that scene on the train. I kind of saw that coming too. This is very Predictable with what they were going with here
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah. But when she, when he pointed out the old lady for smelling, she was like, you need to teach your kids some manners. I was like, ain't that easy lady. Uh, so yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, it really is frustrating on the parent. It really is frustrating being in public spaces because there's so many triggers that if you hit them the wrong way, like there's only so much that you can do. Just the, the instinct that takes over there is, is just, that's just how they operate. I don't want to say.
00:20:19
Speaker
I don't want to say unfortunate, but it is difficult to deal with with a growing child who doesn't quite understand why he's feeling the way that he's feeling. Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world. And that's kind of enlightening to know that you've dealt with it firsthand in your life. I mean, I've seen people with autism at certain points in my life, but I've never had prolonged interactions with anyone like that. So it is very enlightening to learn that and hear about it.
00:20:47
Speaker
you talk about the difficulty that's in the stress that's placed on the parent. I think they did a very deaf job of portraying that because you do sense that kind of desperation and frustration from Rocket, not only just on the train where she kind of blows up at that lady, like don't tell me what my son needs, but even with her husband, like her husband's talking about, you know, taking him to, um, some specialist or something like that. And she's like enough with the acronyms. I don't see how that's necessary. So,
00:21:17
Speaker
I don't know if it's, I wouldn't say it's like denial about the situation, but it just seems like she's almost kind of like fed up and frustrated and tired of going through this process and the system. And I know the system has not always done the best job of giving the best care to people that suffer from mental illness and whatnot. So just great job on the show for really humanizing
00:21:41
Speaker
Rocket, a character that we've known very little bit about. Yeah. But you talked about some of the predictability. That was one thing for this episode with me that's kind of... I'm hesitant to be too critical this early on in the arc, but I think the angle that they're going for with the parallels between Amistad and Orion, the new god that we run into later, were a little bit...
00:22:11
Speaker
I guess too heavily forecasted for me. It's like Rocket as a mother who's dealt with this autistic child should have a little more sympathy towards this new God who obviously has a similar issue. I don't know if it's spelled out exactly, but it's hinted at very heavily that while the high father and high mother are his adoptive parents, it seems like Darkseid is probably his biological father now.
00:22:40
Speaker
Oh, I never caught that at all. Okay, I don't think they said it explicitly, but that was just my assumption. The way that he said another flaw of my genetic father or something, I thought he actually had a human father that was possibly autistic. That's what I took out of that. Okay, interesting. I just thought with the red eyes and especially when he went into his rage fit the way that he looked like one of the new gods from Apocalypse or something like that. Yeah, I think he might be like half new god, half human.
00:23:09
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Okay. I don't know enough about the character. How are these people meeting like that? Yeah, right. But it's still early on in the arc. I'm sure the show will continue to do a good job of exploring that angle with Rocket and her reception to the character as well as endearing us to this character of Orion unless he goes down a darker path.
00:23:34
Speaker
I feel kind of bad, but when I was talking about how direct it is, when I first realized what was going on, I kind of jokingly said to myself, I was like, all right, what's the social issue of this episode? Because I feel like every arc is kind of focusing on one. And the show does a great job at including it. It doesn't feel forced, unlike shows like
00:23:59
Speaker
Supergirl that just kind of like pounded it a little more than they should. You know, Arrow and Flash did a pretty smooth job. That one just got a little wild. So they do a really good job at incorporating it, but that doesn't change the fact that they do do it so much. They just kind of have like, all right, what do we have for this arc? Yeah, fair enough. We'll see what they do. I have all the faith in the world in them. I did think it was a very interesting choice in the
00:24:29
Speaker
kind of hodgepodge crew that they decided to go on this ambassador mission. Jay Garrick, Forager, and Rocket. And don't get me wrong, it's nice to spend time with new characters like Jay Garrick, but last time I checked the show was called Young Justice, wasn't it? He's about the oldest person they've got at this point. And they still had larvas. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's true. That's true.
00:24:55
Speaker
I did love his line about all the multiple foragers going on there. It's like, okay, you're a forager, she's forager. Are there any other foragers I should know about? Man, I got to say Jay Garrick is more patient of a man than I, and I think he was my favorite character in this episode. Oh, okay, cool. Because I respect the hell out of a man who's like a veteran in his craft.
00:25:21
Speaker
but can take orders from clear authority. So while Rocket seemed to be the boss in this, when it was like, hey, Jay, do this, like he was ready to follow orders and kind of give his input as need be. But he was still that source of wisdom when need be as well. Like when it was appropriate, when there was a debrief point or a breakdown point, nothing he could be like, hey, with experience, I feel like we should do this. I feel like we should do that. But in no way did he ever take command. And for somebody who has worked by himself for so long,
00:25:47
Speaker
And then in the justice society, which was a much smaller group for him to have that for him to have kind of like that war ability to kind of like sit back when he needs to and step up at the right time. I absolutely love that. Like he is my favorite character in this arc so far because of that alone. Yeah, those are all excellent points and kind of
00:26:10
Speaker
Not that he needed redemption in my eyes, but his inclusion makes a lot more sense with you highlighting all that. And I think he was the one that reassured Rocket after the skirmish where she was really feeling down on herself about not stepping up when she needed to and hesitating. Yeah, that's why you have a seasoned veteran like that to point out everything that she did that was right and how she can learn from this. So yeah, and he also saved the
00:26:39
Speaker
the larva. It would have been unforgivable if you allowed them to get hurt on screen. This is bad of me too, but when the larva obviously weren't listening because they were told by Lady Forager to hold on to the stuff, when Orion flipped out and smacked him, I was like, yep, sometimes kids need some smacking.
00:27:08
Speaker
You said it, not me.
Jay Garrick: Mentor Role
00:27:11
Speaker
I mean, Wayne from Letter Candy says it too. Yeah. I have another one, but I just kind of felt bad for thinking it was also fun in the moment. It was funny because it took me a moment to actually realize that was...
00:27:26
Speaker
Orion because he looks so different without his almost kind of peacemaker like helm and just seeing his hair kind of wild and his eyes glowing red, but I think it was... It was one of the other bugs for sure, but they were like, oh, this is how the new gods operate. They hit children, huh? I was like, okay, that makes a lot more sense. He got zapped, sent him into a rage. He's pretty much going Hulk until he gets a little FaceTime with the
00:27:53
Speaker
Mother Box, or as he just refers to it as Mother Box. I just found some fun trivia. Oh yeah, what you got? So you mentioned Stop 16 is typically where they stop at. Yeah. There's a whole line of 16s. Raquel lives in apartment 416. Raquel and Amistad usually get off on 16th Avenue. Noble Davis lives in apartment 116.
00:28:21
Speaker
That's her baby daddy. That's the, yeah, baby daddy. Okay. Rocket J Forger approached New Genesis exosphere at 816. Oh. And Jovita is the 16th would-be rebel cabbage by Malafik. Ah, interesting. It was a lot of 16s, apparently. Yeah, 16s out the wazoo.
Ma'a Falek and Darkseid's Influence
00:28:45
Speaker
But you just mentioned Ma'a Falek and it's kind of interesting that you said Jay Garrick was your favorite character because I'm hesitant to say that Ma'a Falek was my favorite character in this episode but I did think that he had some of the most gripping moments like when we had those flashes to I believe the planet was called Armageddon or Armageddon or something like that and basically you saw all these humans that were basically living in a
00:29:14
Speaker
dystopian society and it felt like it was kind of in the shadow of apocalypse and they had these apocalypse and new gods kind of ruling over them and there was the suggestion of rebellion and you had this young guy come into the bar suggesting that they had the numbers to overtake the new gods of apocalypse if they wanted to and he recruits this young girl
00:29:36
Speaker
And it was all just a very, very insidious scheme to arrest her. And if I'm not mistaken, I think they said that was his 16th arrest. Yeah, that was one of the trivia's I said. Okay, perfect. Okay. Yeah, that's what you just said. Okay. So yeah, to see him, you know, transform into from that young character into his white Martian form.
00:30:00
Speaker
and all so that he could get an audience with Darkseid. Pretty scheming and riveting stuff for me, especially coming off the last time we saw him.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm glad his nefariousness has been put to use. I mean, it'll be cool watching, not cool per se, because it's unfortunate, but Megan to have to battle him again, because clearly he's high up at Darkseid and you're wondering like what he actually wants. They said that he'd be getting his boon. Have we been calling it wrong? Is it boon tubes this whole time or?
00:30:39
Speaker
No, no, it's boom tubes. Boone is like another word for like treasure or what you've been. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I feel better. Um, I was very confused. I was like all this for a boom tube. Uh, so yeah, like I'm curious, like what's his objection? Oh my God. I haven't known this in two weeks, guys. It's all good. What's his objective? What is he doing all this for? Like what's so precious that he's working with dark side knowing that that could possibly not end well.
00:31:10
Speaker
You know, objection is not entirely inaccurate. He was on trial the last time we saw him on Mars. That's true. So yeah, it works. But you brought up McGahn and how her next interaction with him is going to go. But I also think about their older sister now that she's living on Earth with McGahn. And what's her name like MC or something like that?
00:31:32
Speaker
Emery? Emery. Okay. Yeah, I'll be interested to see how they continue that through line because as much as they were able to bury the hatchet between them, Emery and McGann, I'll be interested to see if it's like the two sisters united are finally able to take him off this very dark path that he's gone down. We shall see. I hope he doesn't recruit Emery at some point.
00:31:59
Speaker
Because that would give McGann's line of, I need my brother so much more weight. If her own two siblings are actually conspiring against her. I don't think she deserves that. She's dealt with enough. Don't do that to McGann. It's not fair. She's got 90 siblings. I think three were spelling against her. It's fine.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It could very well go that way. I wouldn't be surprised if it went that way. I'm just hoping that it doesn't. I hope she gets Connor back soon because that's going to be a lot. It was kind of interesting to see how Malphalek has really come into his own to the fact that he's almost got this chip on his shoulder even in front of Darkseid.
00:32:46
Speaker
He sucks it up and says what he has to, like, I will, you know, I await my next orders. I'll do what I have to. But then as soon as he gets into that bubble with the other bug mantis and this mystery character that we have been wondering who they are this entire season, he's immediately like, doesn't get around the bush. He's like, I know who this is. Who are you?
Lor Zod and Season's Overarching Plot
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, because if you're told you need to listen to them, like you're listening to Darkseid, which is rebellious nature is going to be like, why? What have you done to make me need to respect you like that? Yeah. But it sets us up for this reveal. It is Lor Zod. And I did not know anything about the character of Lor Zod going in. But we did have the speculation about, you know,
00:33:38
Speaker
With every season, it seems like the first letter of every episode spells out some message for us. So Andrew and I were speculating about like it seems to be, you know, Neil before we were wondering if it was God or Zod. And it definitely seems like it's going that way with this one being called Beyond that sets up before. But now we've got the inclusion of
00:34:06
Speaker
lore Zod, who in the comics is General Zod's biological son with a character named Ursa, but he's not really raised by Zod. I guess he grew up while Zod was in the Phantom Zone, and he's actually adopted by Clark Kent, and he goes by the name of Christopher Kent, and he's actually a hero. And I guess at some point in the comics, he actually goes on to take up the mantle of Nightwing.
00:34:32
Speaker
So this seems to be a very different take on the character, different adaptation, making him villainous and a time traveler. But he definitely seems to have, you know... Is he a time traveler? He is, yeah. He was the one that we saw basically stalking Saturn girl, Phantom girl, and Chameleon boy when they were, you know, following Superboy around on Mars. And he was the one that caused the cave-in.
00:35:00
Speaker
that cause Connor to, quote unquote, die in the first place. Interesting. Yeah. So it'll definitely be fascinating to see where they go with that character. But at the same time we got that revelation, we did spend some time back in what has now been confirmed as the Phantom Zone. And I, for one, was kind of relieved to find that the hallucinations of Lex Luthor were just that, as the episode was kind of going along.
00:35:30
Speaker
Connor was having these hallucinations about being that version of the Superboy that Lex Luthor intended him to be in the first place. I actually wondered if Andrew was right on the money where maybe this was taking place in another like ginomorph cryogenic tube and it was Lex Luthor on the outside influencing his thoughts and whatnot. But turns out it was all just
00:35:55
Speaker
Hallucinations. Yeah, I think he's just like tapping into a subconscious just to process like what's happening, right? You know, he's been in Just in this void state for so long likes brains just messing with him Yeah, yeah, he doesn't know what's real and what's not real but we know that he's real we know that phantom girls real and The other person that's real there is Drew zod
00:36:24
Speaker
who is General Zod. I like the way that he said, like, do you recognize me? No, we've never met before. Yeah, that was a good way of getting him to realize, though, that...
00:36:39
Speaker
he would only be seeing people that he'd met before if they were coming from his own memories. So. Yeah. Yeah. That was a nice touch. I think I kind of relaxed caught it a little bit too. Like, Oh, okay. Actually no, you like, we could be making some progress here on getting out of this hall. Yeah.
00:36:58
Speaker
And it seems like he's slowly but surely getting his mental faculties back, but they're not back entirely because when Zod asks him who he is, he says, I am the Superboy. He's like, okay, if you say so, which makes me think he has some familiarity with Superman. I know in his origin story, he was not banished to the Phantom Zone by Superman originally. It was by his father, Jor-El. I'm wondering.
00:37:23
Speaker
So you know how the time travelers were like somewhat distraught that after asking for Superman's help, nothing changed. Right. What if this was the change? Like, what if this guy is in front of Superboy because Superman made that change and this guy survived in the future and actually made his way back to talk to Connor? Zod? Yeah. Hmm. Like he re-entered the Phantom Zone on purpose.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah, like he actually did survive his fate as a result of Superman being where he needed to be 10 years from now. And now he's making his way back to help Superboy because he knows where he is. It's a stretch. Well, it would just be a timing is interesting. Yeah, yeah. It's just be a completely different take for the character because if he's trying to help Superboy in earnest, typically as odd as a villain.
00:38:25
Speaker
But yeah, no, they're making his son, his biological son, a villain where he's typically been a hero in the comics. So yeah, maybe they might be inverting the roles there where he has to maybe try to redeem his son that he's never really known. But I do think that Zod's going to be Superboy's guide to getting out of the Phantom Zone one way or another. I'm really interested to see how, because I know I can't
00:38:55
Speaker
believe that Satana wouldn't have a part because she's the one that kind of recognized that he might still be around or like his spirit might be around. So I'm excited to see how these arcs tie together to potentially bring him back. But man, I got to add for all the Dragon Walls fans out there, when the time travelers approached Clark and said, you need to be here 10 years from now, it really reminded me of Trunks. I told Goku to do that and then Goku got sick.
00:39:24
Speaker
Uh, you know, he gave him the antidote and all that and like ever since then, like whenever I think about that senior, just kind of have this conversation, like the music from Dragon Ball Z kind of just rolls into my head. Uh, going into that, I was just, it was, it was so nostalgic just being up in the air in the way that they were talking. Nice. Nice. Yeah.
00:39:47
Speaker
I don't know if my mind went there. No, that's all I can think of. Yeah. It's like, we're from the future. We need your help. We need to be in this spot 10 years from now. I'm like, Trunks? Okay. Okay. He's also my favorite character in Dragon Ball Z. Oh, Trunks is an excellent character. He's got one of the coolest Super Saiyan transformations as well. I love how his hair goes up.
00:40:10
Speaker
Yeah, but it did feel good to find that Andrew and I were pretty much right on the money, not only about it being the Phantom Zone, but also about Zod. I was pretty satisfying to get those revelations back to back. And I liked the way they did it too, with just the location placard that, again, I never pay that much attention to, but I damn well paid attention to it when it said the Phantom Zone.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah. As soon as that part popped up, because it slowly came up to, it wasn't like the typical like, like typed
Understanding the Episode Title
00:40:41
Speaker
up. It was like, oh, it's just revelation of like, and for me, like reading that, I was like that level of like intense reveal was totally for the two of you. Yeah, totally. But it's thinking about that reveal right there. It's got me wondering about the title of this episode beyond the grip of the gods.
00:41:03
Speaker
What does that mean? Is that referring to the Phantom Zone?
00:41:06
Speaker
I feel like it's referring to kind of like the oppression of New Genesis, especially with like foragers background of like, you know, everybody on New Genesis basically like enslaved because the new gods were so like cruel to them and whatnot. So I feel like this is kind of like a stepping up type of story. You see the, you know, the other foragers or whatnot, like, you know, standing up to the gods stuff and the gods have like their rules of consent with going into their villages and their hives.
00:41:33
Speaker
Okay, that's how you took the title of just kind of like, you know, growing out of oppression, but that's just me. Okay, I buy that could be something bigger than that. I buy that. Yeah, it could be smaller than that. Just be a cool name. Who knows? That works. So I like that explanation. I guess, apart from the feedback that we need to tackle the
00:41:55
Speaker
main other thing that happened in this episode that we kind of highlighted at the beginning there was the in-credits scene in which we had a entire screen filled with potential candidates for the Justice League reserves. So not only did I take a picture, but I actually have like a list of people. This is a non-speaking role and next to each name is this picture. But also on this trivia fact, which I totally did not get,
00:42:26
Speaker
On the continuity section, it says Raquel has the group photo of the original teen seen in Artemis and Will's house in
Justice League Reserves Candidates
00:42:35
Speaker
Tale of Two Sisters taking moments before Red Arrow joined the Justice League in Usual Suspects.
00:42:41
Speaker
So that was cool. That's actually a picture of the team. So like when it has like some of these people likes a ton and it says picture next to them, it's because they were in the original team picture. Oh, okay. That's cool. Yeah. Gotta appreciate that continuity. Yeah. Yeah. Cause a lot of these people's names I don't remember. So I'm glad that I was able to find
00:43:02
Speaker
a list. I did notice that both versions of Guardian were side by side. The Harper clone as well as Mal, I believe his name was. Yeah, Mal. Yeah. So this isn't the order that the pictures are displayed, but the alphabetical order that this article has it. So I'm going to go off of that and just kind of looking back and forth to see who they're referring to. Okay.
00:43:30
Speaker
The first one is Adam Strange. Ooh. We haven't seen him since season two, I believe. Wasn't he in season three? Maybe he was in season three. I think it was very similar. He was, yeah, because he was there when Black Lightning had his unfortunate scenario that caused him to retire. And then his partner, Alana,
00:43:55
Speaker
OK, she's apparently on here. Where is she? Oh, she's standing right next to him. OK, Artemis, I think that's a picture that was in that fun fact. OK. Asami Koyzumi. She was one of the runaway teens. Oh, OK, I think I remember her. Yeah, I'm trying to. Yeah, the teenage Japanese girl was an upper point. I can see that was her power. She manipulation. OK, cool.
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah. So she was just part of the group that just was, um, talking in Japanese the whole time. How do you pronounce this name? The former green beetle. Yeah. Green beetle. Yeah. He was on there. I love that guy. Bumblebees on there. Clayface is on there. Clayface. Interesting. Like what was his, uh,
00:44:49
Speaker
development or what's his growth. I know we had the one episode with him, but it was just it threw me off to see him on there. Delphus, who I absolutely love, and that is just I think she's one of my new animated crushes. But the reason that I recognized her was when she had her change, like she was like the one girl with the very distinct Indian accent and she made comments about being Indian, too. Right. So when she that's why I remember her story of like her getting gills and Aqualab.
00:45:19
Speaker
you know, taking her to Atlanta so that she belongs somewhere and that she can like learn and stuff. So when she came up with that also beautiful Indian accent, I was like, hello, how are you doing? Yeah, so I caught on to her right away and I was really happy with her inclusion in that episode. So Delfis was one of them. Who is Dubilex? Dubilex is the genomorph that refers to Superboy as brother. He's like the scientist on
00:45:48
Speaker
Yes, so the brother is an option for the Justice League Reserve. Fatherbox, G-Genome. I don't know who that is. Oh, that's Illusion. That wasn't even one of the pictures. Is it G-Genome or G-Nome? G-Nome. Okay. Yeah, he was just one of the Illusion. So we have Guardian Jim Harper and Guardian Malcolm Duncan. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:46:14
Speaker
of Isis, the Egyptian goddess who kind of just popped in for like one quick scene and then just I remember us kind of thinking like, all right, she's just here and then Oh, yeah. Okay. That was one of those, one of those just like random ones like, all right, what's her inclusion? Right, right. Jason blood, who I was very excited to see.
00:46:39
Speaker
Interesting interesting and they even They Superman even like makes the mention of Etragon and how they don't have a picture of him, but they write basin blood on there. So that was a cool
00:46:52
Speaker
Cool reference. Cool to see him again. Khaled Nasser, who's one of the mantles of fate was on there. Right. The Sentinels of Magic, right? He's part of Zatanna's Sentinels of Magic. Right. Yeah. That was the one where, you know, he was very distinct on pronouncing his name of Khaled. Yes. It's not Khalid. I think we might have messed up last week, but yeah. I think I tried to correct myself. Madame Xanadu, powerful psychic and oculus based in New Orleans.
00:47:22
Speaker
Cool. This is a fake fortune teller. Kent Nelson's visited her. Zatanna and her students visited Madam Zunadu from Harlem entrance of a parlor. Trying to find the power, the power source and all that from all the chaos stuff. Hmm. Mary Bromfield. Is that the Mary? Yep, that's. Yeah, that was she's Mary. Correct. She's up there in the first row.
00:47:50
Speaker
Uh, Red Arrow. So I guess he hasn't been part of a team in a while. Uh, Garth. Garth was the original Aqualad. I did some reading recently. And what's funny is when I click on his name in parentheses, his name is Tempest. That's, I think that's what he's going by in like the new continuity, but back in like the like sixties when Aquaman was a little bit more of a laughable character, he was the original Aqualad.
00:48:20
Speaker
We got Troia, we got Ty Longshadow, which is another one of the runaways. Yeah, he was the one with the giant Native American entity. Yeah. And then we have Wayne.
00:48:33
Speaker
And Zatara, which I think I need to retire. I don't I guess I get that it's reserves, but just relax. Like you've been through enough. Yeah, he's earned his rest. And Superman and Black Lightning's heads are both blocking off one person each. I'm just going to say one of them's Andrew. Sounds about right. Yeah, that's the list. That's just that's a cool thing, all these people.
00:49:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Some of those are pretty surprising, but I think the most surprising one for me is still Clayface. I would love to know the story there, how Batman redeemed him or rehabilitated was the word I was looking for. Yeah. Yeah. From his criminal past. Yeah. The saboteur who ran interference on Mars and inhospitable and lethal and voluntary is revealed. Was that?
00:49:26
Speaker
That was Lorsod. That was our time traveler. Gotcha. After declaring the CV bug was female, Forger asked JF if his gender wasn't obvious. That was a nice callback to the Bioship episode. Except that's obvious. Don't put that on me. Any other fun facts on here? Superboy recites the same pre-program speech he uttered in fireworks when Aqualight asked him who he was.
00:49:54
Speaker
Right. I am the Superboy. I meant to replace Superman if he should ever fall from the light. Right. Yeah. And take, well, take him down or replace him. I thought that my speaker cracked at this point when Superboy was snapping Batman's back.
00:50:11
Speaker
Yeah, I was pretty I was reading this fact the image of Superboy breaking Batman's Back past it just a cover of Batman 497 which Bane performs the deed Recognized it but me just focusing on that sound and Kind of the shocking image. It just slipped my mind that it was Bane. But yeah, it was a pretty iconic So that's it for the for the continuity and the trivia facts. Thank you young justice fandom wiki
00:50:43
Speaker
Thank you indeed. Thank you indeed. All right, you ready to tackle this feedback from Mr. TJ Stafford? Yeah, so this line is definitely for you guys. You guys called it. Connor is in the Phantom Zone and your theory about Zaws seems to be right on the money. Tell him what we've won. The opportunity for another episode.
00:51:09
Speaker
Now to the meat of it, my wife is a special education teacher who primarily teaches students with severe autism. I'm nowhere near the expert she is, but living with her is apparently rubbed off on me. Watching this episode, I immediately recognize the signs in Rocket's sign, and I suspect Orion may be battling something similar.
00:51:26
Speaker
Unfortunately, Rocket doesn't seem to recognize it just yet. Hopefully she will soon so that they can work together. This is a form of representation I never expected to see in this medium, but I'm so here for it. The season especially seems to be trying to shine the light on so many issues in our world and it's a beautiful thing. I'm definitely looking forward to spending more time with the new gods in this arc and more time with Rocket. She's always been around, but we've never spent any real time with her before. Thanks as always for letting me rant, TJ Stafford.
00:51:53
Speaker
This is a safe place for you to rant, TJ. Thank you for your feedback and thank you for that insight. If your wife has any particular thoughts, if she watches the show alongside you ever and has some feedback about the portrayal of this particular disorder, that is autism. It's not necessarily debilitating. People can live happy and fulfilling lives with the
00:52:20
Speaker
Right treatment and whatnot, but yeah. Smart as a whip. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. They seem to be high functioning in certain areas, but then just have- Level of observation is incredible. Right, exactly. Yeah. Because he knows that, Anastas knows that bus stop is coming up well before any other child his age would pick up on something like that.
00:52:43
Speaker
There was a couple other cues in the first dialogue. I just can't remember what they were. It's amazing that I get to watch the episode once before recording. Well, I guess thinking back on his first appearance where he pointed out the baby being in her belly. Any kid that's of that age that they're still being held would not make that connection. They'd still be thinking the stork is going to drop off a baby, I would imagine. There's a baby in that belly.
00:53:14
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely some high-level intellect there. We take feedback as email and voice recording. So if anybody actually has an exciting moment or something that they really want to get off their chest, let's hear those voices. Yeah, we encourage you to rant and to gush in both email and audio form. You can hit us up at animationdeliberationpodcastatgmail.com.
00:53:40
Speaker
follow us on our Instagram, which is just animation deliberation. And if you want to see what we're doing on Twitter, it's just animation the lib number one. And does your hair anything you want to let the people know about for this week before we get out of here? Not quite. I might be making a couple more appearances on three, two, three or three Murphy's. So if you haven't already help our our buddy podcast out and give him a subscribe. Yeah, I saw it looked like he was doing some coverage of KatsuCon.
00:54:11
Speaker
I don't know where that was taking place. Yeah, there was one that he did a couple months ago. I finally got the YouTube stuff up and then he's in the works of being an awesome client in DC in June as well. Very cool. Yeah.
00:54:25
Speaker
Give them some support. Give us some support as well, if you don't mind. We would definitely appreciate any reviews wherever you catch your pods, Stitcher, Apple Podcast, iHeartRadio, Spotify. All those places are great places to leave us rating our review. And again, share the show with any of your friends that love this animated content as much as we all do. And I believe that's it for me this week. So thanks for tuning in. That's T-double-O, N-I-N. Stay well.
00:54:56
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email animationdeliberationpodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at animationdelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash spchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.
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