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SNW: "Hegemony" (s2e10) [SEASON FINALE]
119 Plays4 months ago
THE GORN ULTIMATUM. All big swings must come to an end, and Strange New Worlds doesn't disappoint with its second season finale. There's a major set piece that competes with the best that Star Trek has ever done. Big emotions! Big decisions... and Scotty? It's also Trek, Marry, Kill's second season finale AND 100th episode. We've got a lot of people to thank for joining the show this season.
The grades begin at (16:38).
We'll be back in September with new episodes. Don't forget to check out our TREK / MARRY / KILL tracker at trekmarrykillpod.com; and, if you're so inclined, rate & review us on your podcast platform of choice.
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Transcript
Introduction and Milestone Celebration
00:00:00
Speaker
This week on Trek Mary Kill. Garn, Scotty, goop. Next. My God. Do any Federation battles in range? We don't know what we're walking into down there. I don't plan on leaving them behind. You were born for this, Erica.
00:00:28
Speaker
It is possible someone could have survived. Hope is a choice. You've told me that one before. Maybe I'm just saying it because I need to hear it.
00:00:50
Speaker
Trek. Mary. Kill.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Kristen.
Episode Discussion: 'Hegemony'
00:00:59
Speaker
Welcome to Trek Mary Kill, a Star Trek podcast designed on the small town model. Kristen, it's Trek Mary Kill's second season finale and our 100th episode. Can you believe it? No. It's been such a busy week for me. It literally felt feels like we recorded the last episode like yesterday. I was like, we gonna record again? No. I'm still haunted by the last recording, but that's what we do with what we covered in our record.
00:01:30
Speaker
I hope everyone enjoyed listening to that one. ah what We're closing out our second season by judging the second season finale of Star Trek Streams New Worlds, the last big swing of the year. It's Hegemony, episode 10. It debuted on Paramount Plus August 10th, 2023, so just about a year ago, written by Henry Alonzo Meyers, co-showrunner and directed by Maja Vervillo, Memory Alpha describes it, when the USS Enterprise investigates an attack on a colony at the edge of Federation space, Captain Pike and his crew face the return of a formidable enemy. What Memory Alpha doesn't say is that said formidable enemy is the Gorn, which is on a bit of a warpath before this episode begins. The crew of the Enterprise meet Scotty, who was one of Pelia's students, another one of Pelia's students. We got number one being the other.
00:02:15
Speaker
ah The episode ends with Captain Battelle infected by Gorn eggs, and Pike is on the bridge caught between fighting the Gorn or obeying Starfleet's random ass orders and retreating. It's set up to be Strange New World's best of both worlds,
Cultural Impact and Awards
00:02:28
Speaker
Mr. Worf fire moment, but well, I don't ever think it really comes off that way, but it ends the same, right? To be continued, a cliffhanger.
00:02:41
Speaker
Before we get into the episode itself, let's once more take a step back and look at Strange New World's impact on pop culture. The past May, it was announced that the Peabody Awards would be honoring the Star Trek franchise with the Institutional Award, which is, and I checked Kristin, not an award they made up just to give to Star Trek. Well, I you know i yeah i wouldn't expect that from the Peabody Awards. ah Other recent winners include Today, Fresh Air with Terry Gross, The Simpsons, 60 Minutes, Sesame Street, Frontline, and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. So just to be clear, they gave it to Fresh Air with Terry Gross before Star Trek, correct? Am I reading this correctly? ah Looks like it, yes. Interesting. Which I thought was a radio show?
00:03:27
Speaker
I guess so. but Or it's a broadcast, right? It's a broadcast. Oh, it's any broadcast. Yes. Anything that's broadcast media, can I assume, is what Peabody's statement is. And they they even kind of ah mark that here in this statement. The streaming era has brought a raft of reimaginings with a variety of sensibilities from the dark and complicated Star Trek Discovery to the crowd-pleasing prequel Star Trek Strange New Worlds, featuring a young Spock to the hilarious meta-cartoon Star Trek Lower Decks. As the latest versions of Star Trek invite in a new generation of viewers, the interstellar travelers still encounter danger and difficulty, of course, but the Starfleet crew always comes out on top.
00:04:05
Speaker
and without sacrificing essential values that seem quintessentially human, valor, self-sacrifice, curiosity, compassion, broad-mindedness.
Ratings and Character Analysis
00:04:15
Speaker
Broad-mindedness. That's a word you hear a lot. Anyway, from a groundbreaking television series to an expansive collection of films, novels, comic books, and so much more, Star Trek has been delivering joy, wonder, and thought-provoking stories since the 1960s. With powerful anti-war and anti-discrimination messages, it has blazed trails for all science fiction franchises, while winning over passionate fans across the globe. We're proud to honor Star Trek with Peabody's Institutional Award, which we definitely didn't make up for Star Trek. I feel like it should have gotten it before Fresh Air with Terry Gross. but Okay. The other ones, I'm just going to be fine. I'm fine with the other ones, ah but I have an allergy to NPR. like i it It is like nails on a fucking chalkboard to me.
00:05:00
Speaker
yeah i It's not part of my media consumption, usually. ah In in l la's ah and LA's NPR stations, they have ah Morning Becomes Eclectic or whatever, so they have, like, electronica music play. That's when i basically when I listen to local NPR stations. Oh, I don't even... I didn't even know that, Brian. Another part of it's- Didn't know you liked electronica type music. Well, as I mentioned and last week, I have terrible taste in music for the most part, or I tend not to like really engage with music in any kind of interesting way, which which means like, so it's just kind of like- I mean like beats and tunes and something now that I can kind of just let recede into the background for the most part. There are songs I like, obviously, and bands and all that stuff.
00:05:51
Speaker
Okay. So yeah it's like NPR is background. No, yeah no way. Okay. Okay. I tend not to get my news from podcasts. I prefer to read the news, but you know, i' and like someone, the written word short and word is I definitely tend to react better more to that the way the NPR delivers the news. Good rally. Well, first, congratulations to Star Trek, led by Discovery and Changing Worlds for this Peabody Award, prestigious. I do wish it was being honored for some of these values when it was still demonstrating a lot of them, but does it doesn't matter. it's ah you know
00:06:26
Speaker
ah The other thing for its cultural and ah imprint, we're now getting Nielsen ratings for the streamers, and Paramount Plus was finally added to this tracking. And all that began last year when Star Trek Picard Season 3 debuted. It's not so much that I want to know the ratings or that they're even illustrative of Trek's pervasiveness in pop culture, let's say. But as a quick and dirty measure of how it's doing against other things people claim to stream, you know, but I'll take it. Gives it gives me an idea. Are people actually watching this show? And ah last June, June 2023, Strange New Worlds, Courtney Nielsen generated nearly one billion viewing minutes, which I assume is it's from a deadline article, which I assume they're quoting from a Nielsen press release. Strange New Worlds was also in the Nielsen streaming top 10 for seven of its nine weeks of release. ah Two episodes were actually released in the same week. That's why there's nine weeks of release in September 10.
00:07:18
Speaker
So people are watching it it's popular and and we're seeing it with string discovery in season five as well. You know, so I had all the online trolls being like nobody watches this. Well, now we have numbers. This strange new world is like the more popular of the two. ah I haven't done a ah one-to-one comp, but Discovery has been cracking the top 10 of streaming. and um So at least, I don't know what's more popular. I think Stranger new Worlds actually maybe got more than um Star Trek Picard. But the thing about these Nielsen numbers to keep in mind is that they measure
00:07:54
Speaker
So like what does streaming allow you to do? Binge. And so Nielsen counts how many episodes are available and how many minutes of a show have been watched. So if people have never seen a show before and stream to catch up, that could you know skew ratings or this or that. Stranger Worlds by virtue of being in its second season, let's say, had fewer episodes for people to catch up on. And if they liked it in any part or they were excited about season two, maybe they went back and rewatched or they watched for the first time, which could have skewed. I'm pretty sure no one was going and binging Star Trek Picard before season three began. You know what I mean? Like, and I know. But so it's it's kind of hard to say what's what. But just as a general rule of thumb, like that's it's something right. So Stranger World's a popular show.
00:08:41
Speaker
ah All right, let's get into some specific thoughts. The main one being Scotty's here, yeah played by Martin Quinn, the first actual Scotsman to play Montgomery Scott. Yeah, you know what? I i noticed that.
00:08:57
Speaker
On introducing Scotty, it's like no accident that it's all part of the grand design. Henry Alonzo Myers told Keisha Hatchet of TV Line, what we'd like to do with the characters from the original star trek series we don't meet our understanding of who they are in that series we meet who they are before They don't know who they will be and they aren't that person yet.
Monsters and Intelligence: The Gorn
00:09:17
Speaker
They have some stuff to go through. We also had a great opportunity to cast someone who's from Scotland who can do that Scotty, but also can go through all the things that we wanted to see him go through before he becomes the person that we know.
00:09:31
Speaker
I don't know why this is like a thing that that producers insist on, that people want to learn. Those are the shoes that he's wearing in the show. How did he get those shoes? I don't think I really care most of the time. I don't care about that at all. How did Scotty and Ora become Scotty and Ora? I don't know, but I promise it's not going to be as interesting as them just being Scotty and Ora. Yeah. Anyway, Akiva Goldsman gave a variety of thoughts on the gorn, that's the other component of this is ah this episode, because one of the things that Die Hard Trekkies, even the biggest Strange New Worlds enthusiasts, had some complaints about is how they're taking to be generous liberties with the canon about what the Gorn are and basically diluting the impact of arena where it seems like Kirk is meeting the Gorn for the first time or the Federation is. And Kiva Goldsman said, I thought it was important for there to be real monsters in our galaxy. That doesn't mean that 10 years, two seasons from now, we won't be having a nice chat with the Gorn. But right now in seasons one and two and three, they're the monsters. By the way, many of the other Star Trek antagonists began as alien, as other.
00:10:40
Speaker
Forgive the use of aliens, but we learn to connect with them, not so the gorn. The gorn are not understandable to us in this way, not relatable to us in this way. Part of our galaxy is be good, be kind, be empathetic, and also understand that evil exists, because seeing with compassion doesn't mean you should be blind to horror. The gorn are monsters. and trigger So they're never going, so unlike the original series characters, you know, we just heard Henry Alonzo Meyers, it sounds like they're talking at cross purposes, right? Henry Alonzo Meyers is like, we're gonna see who they were before they're the characters we know. And Akiva Goldsman was like, I don't care what they become, they're just gonna be this.
00:11:17
Speaker
yeah We're doing kind of two different things. And so Goldsman concluded, you will never see the Gorin like the ones in Arena. This is the Gorin as we perceive them. This is our version of the Gorin. It's an interpretation in the same way the transporter room on the enterprise is never going to look like the transporter room looked in TOS, right? It's our interpretation of it. And you know, on the one hand, the Kiva Goldsmith's mother was a Holocaust survivor. So I can absolutely understand this idea that there's pure evil in the world. I think I understand that perspective. Uh, on the other hand, it's not like a really complicated idea and the quote itself isn't very thoughtful. You know, he's not trying to get anyone to buy in.
00:11:56
Speaker
He's just kind of trying to bully the idea across the line. um And I feel like it's just the way that these Gorn are portrayed ever since season one with Laan is kind of the way like reactionaries view the other where the Gorn are just monsters, right? They're just monsters, but they're also super intelligent and they thought of every contingency. Yeah, like I had so many questions about the Gorn and none of them are answered by this series. Like they're bloodthirsty monsters who eat people, but they've somehow been able to perfect perfect space travel. And they're more powerful than a starship. Yeah. They even have spacesuits and they're inquisitive. They've somehow been able to manufacture these special spacesuits for themselves. Yeah. But they're like too dumb to understand, like,
00:12:52
Speaker
the scene where ah the access is denied to the gourd or whatever, he's trying to open something or whatever when he's on on the ship with Nurse Chapel, you know, sweating, like, ah like she's an alien, unfortunately. They're just like, I can't go over that other the thing. Like, they're just a bunch of dum dums, but they're obviously not a bunch of dum dums. Right. They're because there's no real attempt to be like, well, what's what what's their deal? Yeah, right. There's just them versus us. And they are both like pike touches on it a teeny bit is right immediately shut down. Yes. By everyone. He's like, Well, maybe we can, you know, communicate them with them in the future or something. And then everyone's just like, you're fucking out of your mind. No.
00:13:43
Speaker
It just kind of sounds like a rejection of Star Trek like on its surface. It's saying this is just what I want to do because I think it's cool or it's something I feel very strongly about that there's evil in the world and we we have to be able to adapt to that by force. That seems that like he even says I thought it was important for there to be real monsters in our galaxy. Sounds like he's trying to teach a lesson. I guess what I'm just saying is like drama comes from how our characters respond to that. And this episode certainly like, head fakes towards that, where Pike has a very strong line at the beginning, right? Where he's like, sometimes evil is just evil or whatever. But none of that gets explored. And so I guess if you're just trying to bully the interviewer into being like, this is our interpretation of the gourd. This is what it is. This is what it is. This is what we're doing. But you're not like explaining why you're doing it. It just kind of just hangs there as like, OK. And so it just this episode kind of raised that issue even more, I felt like. um Some memory alphabets.
00:14:42
Speaker
Oh, I never said it that way. That's kind of funny.
Production and Standout Scenes
00:14:45
Speaker
Alphabet cereal. That was fun. Remember those days? Anyway. I do. it's funny After I said that, it's kind of funny that Memory Alpha included this note from Mike Sussman, one of the writers on Enterprise. ah He said, ah ah memory alpha says in this episode several memories members of the crew of the enterprise have eye contact with the gorn this comes in conflict with what was stated near the end of star trek enterprises first season when staff writer michael sussman offered uh this is in star trek the magazine
00:15:16
Speaker
He said, before we decided to have the Andorians, we all talked about doing the Gorn. But when we looked at the show, it was decided by Rick Berman and Brandon Braga that it was pretty clear that Captain Kirk's run-in was the first time anyone had seen a Gorn. So as much as we would have loved to use them, it doesn't fit with what's been established. So they're kind of off the table for us. Just thought it was funny. Also, back in episode four of season one, I think on is all plenty of people have seen the goal and they just haven't survived long enough to so tell tales of it or whatever. And that's pretty much. I remember that like very clearly. In fact, about when we quote that episode often.
00:15:58
Speaker
and monsters The Colony Planet, Parnassus Betas, Main Street is a backlot in Pickering, Ontario. that was And it sure looks it. Oh yeah. And it was originally built for the TV show Reacher on Amazon Prime. It's definitely not built for this show. The Gorn hegemony symbol originated in the Starfleet Academy video game and was first used in canon in the Star Trek Prodigy episode, Masquerade. So there's that. Shall we proceed to the grades one last time? Yes. Well, for the season, all right, are or where this is our last episode ever. Of the season. Great scenes. OK, I am going to go like skip right ahead to um the scene in the ready room when Sam Kirk and the banger like, fuck yeah, man, let's go kill these motherfuckers. I just immediately like Sam was not even invited.
00:16:54
Speaker
He busts up in there. goes I like a crack at him. Like, uh, what? Like, to study them. And then Laanne acts like she's a hot in my like, with your faces. And like, yeah. Bingo. And then the thing is like, I too would like just to study them in this manner. Yeah. You know, this is when it kind of verges into um Star Trek Enterprise, the Expanse territory. You know, remember when Archer's like, we need to go hunt the Zindi or whatever. And like, this is where it's like, we're going to be all cool and Pike's like, beam the weapons, create 32 into the conference room. That to me was very much we
00:17:39
Speaker
don't have time or money to like move to a different location, let move to a different set. So um beam it in here. That's right. me These are standard issue now. They're but specific gorn weapons. Luckily, we have them on board for this time that we're meeting the gorn. Any other great scenes? Because I really want to. Okay. So after everyone's been, you know, volunteering for this landing party, for some reason, or Tagus is basically like, I don't want any goddamn part of this. And then she gets roped into being the pilot of the shuttle anyway. But she's like, eventually ends up liking it. But I was, but she was the only smart one going like, no I don't um don't think so.
00:18:23
Speaker
The conference room scene that I liked was towards the end when O'Hara, well, towards the middle when O'Hara and Poliya pitched their plan. Yeah. The Kaiga saucer into the Gorn interference device on the surface. It contains my favorite moment of the episode. It makes me laugh every time I re-watched it, where number one realizes what the plan is and Poliya reacts to it with My goodness, if you had answered like that in my class, I would have given you an A+. plus It's just the way she delivers the line. And I just appreciated that it's a payoff to a very, very, very, very flimsy ongoing storyline of the season of number one and and Polia not really liking each other. So
00:19:04
Speaker
And then it ends with Pike or with Spock volunteering to go ah saying I'm the only one who can do it. He doesn't explain why I feel like original recipe Spock would have been would have been like, as you humans are so inferior in every possible way, he would have gotten in a little dig there, I think. Yes, there would there would be a number of in the moment calculations necessary to execute this plan. Only I'm capable of doing that. Yeah. In his defense, he was talking to the some of the more capable members of the crew and perhaps he didn't feel the need to be like, you guys are too dumb. Like they probably already knew. It's true. O'Hara is the smartest person on the ship. Yeah, I always forget that. Okay, I also have.
00:19:47
Speaker
I did actually kind of like Scotty trapping the Enterprise crew in his little gorn mouse trap. But also, very importantly for me, ah when we see that Nurse Chapel is alive, but running out of oxygen, you can tell she is deeply regretting. She sees the Enterprise out the window. And you could tell she is deeply regretting her decision to break it up, break up the Spock and go on this dumb fellowship. Well, deep regret back out for half a second. it's the It's the Spock rescues chapel sequence is what I put as the as a great scene. OK, yeah.
00:20:26
Speaker
I love, but I love that you're just with her. You Kristin are just with chapel. So please keep going. Um, I can't, I don't want to spoil it cause I have a worse trek trip coming up. Oh my God. I think I know. I think you know what it is, Brian, but, um, so I don't want to get, I don't want to get that. I don't want to tip my hand a little too much here about chapel's actions leading up to her eventual rescue. and very unlikely rescue from by Spock. I did, though, like Spock smashing the gorn helmet with that piece of metal he just tore off the bridge.
00:21:05
Speaker
yes like ah That was, it was all cool. I mean, yeah this this sequence to me represents what Strange New Worlds is all in one package. Like if you're like, well, what is this show? I'm like, this sequence explains basically everything. You've got feature quality, visual effects, and like kind of a filmic language in terms of pacing, the construction of the sequence itself, mainly sight and sound with the score that meets the moment. I really liked the synths that they added for this particular sequence, but also just the dumbest fucking melodrama on offer. I just the chapel begin the sequence begins when Spock heads to the ship, at which point chapel is finally awakening after a day, several hours just in time for the city would be severely concussed and completely like soiled herself and urine and feces by the yeah plant guys. OK. And then she happens to be in the right area to both see not just the enterprise,
00:22:08
Speaker
but also Spock floating by perfectly. Oh, and then inside with her is a Gorn by itself, even though weve as they've established like the Gorn are not interested in the debris. But this one is, and it doesn't like contact its ship to alert the presence of... No, you know what I mean? like There's a ship out the window. No, it's right out the window. She just saw it. Well, we as we know in Star Trek, nobody looks out the window, generally, usually. Right, right. The agony and the ecstasy of Strange New Worlds, at least season two of Strange New Worlds, I feel like is right here in the sequence. And unfortunately, they even dilute it by cutting back to this stuff in the shuttle with Scottie, Pike, and Battelle, which is not like completely pointless, but it's like, there's a sequence, there's a vibe you're building to stick with it, and they don't do it. But ah I don't know, I thought it was pretty pretty masterful filmmaking, or at least
00:23:00
Speaker
you know if you're gonna do this version if this is what you want to do with every episode which i think is their goal to have like a major set piece and they always try to find an emotional reason to do stuff it completely tosses out the canon of Spock and chapel because if this really happened to the original series as the you know that that is a different relationship. He really he he literally risked it all to save her. You know, it's not. Yeah, it's so it's bizarre, but it's it's just great. It's kind of like you're in awe while watching it. So any other great scenes? um I mean, I like at the end towards the end where Polia and Scotty are we realize we learn that he was one of her students.
Cliffhangers and Leadership Styles
00:23:46
Speaker
And a bad one at that. But also her bride. Sorry, the best student with the worst grades. That was me, Brian. I believe it. yeah I agree. I can answer all the questions in class, but if you give me a homework assignment, I am not going to get to that. It's hard to say. The test will do, though. The ending is such like a a clumsy set up to get to the cliffhanger, but it that it's just hilarious. like Anson Mount literally gulps, like he swallows hard and you see it, and he looks like he's shitting his pants on one hand. Yeah, he looks like he might have a like ah panic attack at any moment, like just freezes here in the headlights. It's Pike's Bush on 9-11 moment. the The country is under attack, sir. sir. For a second, Gorn has...
00:24:43
Speaker
A fourth Gordon vessel has appeared in orbit. Now, I guess there's an argument you could be made like made like he's staring at the crew and they're seeing like the front of his pants are just covered in urine. And then when he turns around, though, you could argue that maybe it's like the look is actually supposed to be conveying. Well, now he's made up his mind about what he's going to do. And we're just going to have to find out when we come back what his decision is. I can imagine it picking up she's like orders captain and like we see his face tighten and resolve maybe that's what they're going for but as constructed it actually suggests the opposite so I don't know I'm just trying to be fair but at the same time my gut reaction and every time every watch is like that is an objectively funny moment
00:25:24
Speaker
It is. It's a weirdly paced story. The reveal of the Cayuga being destroyed is kind of schmuckbait because we know that Patel isn't on it, but we know that chapel was. Why didn't they, when when the shadows coming up over her, the badly digital shadow that covers Patel's face as she looks up in the sky and sees the Gornship, she says, my God, why doesn't she say like, But tell the Cayuga beam me up. You know what I mean? like Because she's that's her ship. like She should be going up there. And we just don't see her beam up. You know what I mean? It would at least create the suspense of like maybe she was on the ship. You know what I mean? like Instead, we get there and it's like, what is the jeopardy here?
00:26:02
Speaker
Well, I mean, well, the jeopardy is that, like, there aren't any survivors when the Gorns show up, right? I guess if you're trying to do the schmuck bait, though, you need to really pack them in. I don't know. And also, why did the demarcation line beat come up after they get to the planet? Why didn't they come up in the moment when he's talking to Admiral April, and Admiral April's being like, this is personal. I'm just concerned, but you can't do anything. It's kind of like, not dramatic enough. He should have said, no, Chris, there while you were warping there, the Gorn have reached out to us. There's a demarcation line. I know Marie means a lot to you, and the Cayuga is one of ours, but we out we're we're trying not to start a conflict. You can't go. Then the episode is about
00:26:41
Speaker
pike defying orders to rescue the love of his life now there's immediate stakes and it's just weird that they did the way they did it but wait do we know for sure it's the love of his life or you got to play it that way i mean nothing he's done this season indicates that he's actually even that into her He's kind of an asshole all season. And I don't know if this is like they didn't even he didn't even want to go on vacation with this woman. now He's risking life and limb. yeah and And Pike's supposed to be like the strapping mountain man horse riding. But it just sounds he just comes off as like a loner asshole, at least with her best trek tropes. OK, I put this in best and then I moved it to worse. But I'm going to mention it anyway, a colony trying to emulate 20th century Earth.
00:27:24
Speaker
20th century backlot. Yeah. Oh my goodness. like It's fun. ah It's not very well done here, so I did move it to worst, but I did want to mention it. I mean, it could have gone a either way. If I have it in worst, we can maybe talk about it. Okay. All right. right so I'll stop talking there. Okay. Do you have any any others? Yes. but go a does We're told over and over again they're monsters. Okay. I liked on in this episode though, like she was pretty chill all things yeah versus her previous encounters with the Gorn. So I appreciated her a little bit more in this episode. ah Dr. Mabenga, first up to do some murders sanctioned or unsanctioned.
00:28:08
Speaker
Like, and honestly, that's the guy I would want. That's your point. That's the person i'm I'm I mean, I ask long because she has experience with this and the bang on my killing machine. Dr. Murder. And I'm going to ask him if he has any of that super serum, the super soldier serum. Can he become the winter soldier one more time and take out a whole colony of the Gorn?
00:28:33
Speaker
Pike goes into a he and also in the crate is the red book code book that he reads the keywords to to activate the winter soldier. and I also have Scotty made a sophisticated mousetrap. In this case, it was like a literal one. Well, yeah, I got Scotty the miracle worker. Yeah. Yeah. Devising the gorn trap, jury rigging the shuttle. And then I also have Spock be like, no human can complete this task. But I can, because you guys are all dumb and incate yours. incompetent idiots about. I mean, not in this case. They weren't incompetent. They just couldn't do it. So I really took to heart your thing of like, you know, I'm going to put his best trick tropes, what I like, what it does stuff. So I am that spirit, a strange new world trope, which i I think I canonized for myself last week. it Pike is a himbo. You know, he literally says we need to think harder.
00:29:26
Speaker
But in the conference room scene you mentioned, he asked for volunteers and the first three people to offer our number one Spock and O'Hara and he turns them all down. He's like, no, you brainiacs need to be right here on the ship and make sure we don't get ourselves into a little diplomatic mess. So he asked for volunteers and then he seems to forget. that he said He knew who's A squad was going to be for this one. But then, like you said, Sam Kirk just wanders in. yeah
00:29:57
Speaker
and then i mean i wouldn't have pickeded i but of he Sam Kirk would not have been my A-list team, but the fact that he was so enthusiastic about it. yeah And he is, I mean, I guess you would he pike doesn't know this now. I mean, he is a Kirk, so he's probably a bit reckless. And that's kind of what you need when you're fighting the Molstas, I imagine. And then Pike ropes in Ortagus. So, I mean, like, was he asking for volunteers or is he just too shy to give orders? No, I think he's like, I can't, like, order them. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to ask for volunteers and everyone will feel pressured to volunteer. And I'm like, um, actually, I'm just going to take you, you, and you, and then the one person who didn't volunteer. And then the comically large gulp at the end. I mean, he really is approaching the Ken doll status here. but like The himbo thing of like.
00:30:48
Speaker
being like, oh, yeah, I'm going to have volunteers and then just doing what you want anyway. Yeah. Taking the people you want anyway. But even still having only half a plan, he's like, OK, I got people. Now what? Or Tagus has to come up with the plan of how they get to the planet, you know, because everyone has to have an idea. He can't have any ideas. And shit, if he didn't run into Scotty, he'd really be. Yeah, that's right. Jeez, this guy's like, I don't want to go back to the shuttle and do all that. shit And then he's like, well, you kind of we kind of need you. like I'll do it solely for the crew of my last ship, but I don't give a fuck about any of you guys. The starter diver. And then literally every one of the people on the bridge asked him, what do we do, Captain? And he's like, I've never had to have an independent thought before.
00:31:36
Speaker
I thought you guys were like self starters. I'm just Pike. That'll be his song. but Yeah, that's what they should have done for the musical. All right. Worst trek tropes. So I'll start to like drafting off what you said just outside Federation space. It's a variant on at the edge of Federation space. It's the show's Wild West set up, but it's like totally unnecessary. Obviously you're saying like, but they're just using ah a backlot, a basic ass backlot. But yeah they're doing that to establish that, well, in the future, now will be the Wild West for us and all this other stuff. It's just weird, though. It's like, why would, if they're not a part of Federation space, why would the Federation deploy any resources to help it out? and
Setting and Narrative Choices
00:32:19
Speaker
Because now we're going to vaccinate them or whatever.
00:32:22
Speaker
But like, why did they even make it a point? Why did they even make it a point to say, who cares about Federation space? Like they weren't talking about this in the original series. Like you're creating more trouble than you need to. I think they did it because it's like, you know, we've got we've got a legal mindset wherever we look where it's like, well, the going would only attack if they, you know, I mean, the line of demarcation matters in open space. But if they were to try to do that and in Federation space, the Federation would feel compelled. You know what I mean, to like be more aggressive. So that's kind of the way they did it. But it's so weird because it's like they didn't attack us. They attacked a colony outside of our jurisdiction. Then why were you there at all? also Yeah, also. I I'm yeah I'm starting to get more uneasy every time, like we're going to a colony. OK, what was there before the colony got there?
00:33:09
Speaker
Fair point. That looked like a lush planet. Before each of these people showed up to play cowboy, you know, have their little fake Midwest town or whatever. That's the other part of this. What was there before? Yes, the other part of this would be you're throwing this idea out there for what purpose? Like is, are they like, a where did they establish this Midwestern colony because their leaders are fiercely independent? And so there's like a lesson to be taught of you can't be xenophobic or isolate yourself from the world or the galaxy. Like are they paying rent on that land? yeah I mean, who owns it? Like what's going on here? Right. Why did they need help in the first place? Like it it just seems like a very strange, and again, it's not like tied to the larger story. So what is it?
00:33:53
Speaker
doing other than just being a device to get this very flimsy story emotion. So I'm with you and it's like, and obviously it's like, well, we need a backlot. It seems like they just, we we need a backlot for this and work backwards from that idea. Cause I thought, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in like other star tracks, There were a thing, there were a little bit more information. Like there started a colony on this planet, but it's like under like a dome or something. Like otherwise it's not like hospitable or something you or something like that. Or like they had to do XYZ.
00:34:25
Speaker
it It's... Kind of closer to this but we actually meet the colonists we get a sense of who they are like next generation silicon avatar when the crystalline entity destroys this colony we don't get any information about why they chose this colony or what these colonists are about we just get that the enterprise crews been helping them set up. and And Riker has been fucking one of the colonists because of course. Yeah. And that's about it. then the And then the crystalline entity comes. But here we don't even meet any of the people. They don't get any like there this is not important. There's five thousand of them. And we just assume that they're all either killed or or kidnapped by the Goron at the end. So
00:35:06
Speaker
It's just a it's like maybe the reason there wasn't other human humanoid life forms on that planet it was because the Gorn uses it as like their, you know, killing field or something. They could try to do that, but that would be very close to Arena and they seem to want to do something different for my. OK. So I don't know. It's just weird. OK. Other than the colony thing, my first worst trek trip, the guy ringing the fucking dinner bell when the Gorn show up like that's the only way to alert people to a disaster. It's the only thing that was like maybe ah built into the set because they didn't have a props budget very much. No. They couldn't afford to pay for any extra speaking roles, I guess. But they could have been like, I don't know, could have had an air air raid siren put in its effect. I don't know. It was very dumb. Yeah. OK. Marie.
00:36:00
Speaker
would be that person. Marie Battelle would be that person in a zombie movie who gets bitten and doesn't say shit to the rest of the people in the group. And she's a captain. She doesn't tell anyone. Oh, yeah, he they put their eggs in me. Yeah. This is vital fucking information. And also, by the way, you had Dr. Mabanga back there and then you went off without him. You could have maybe just mentioned it to the to the world where it renowned. doctor who's got some wild shit that he's always cooking up in a lab. Like maybe say something to the one medical professional.
00:36:41
Speaker
professional like yeah She should have just like not been near the other group at all. But she should have been doing something. She's like, well, if I know I'm going to die, I better use the time I have left. Like that just makes sense. She's a starship captain. And I have more to say on that. Well, I'll say it right now. This is a Star Trek trope for the most part. But like the imbalanced reactions to significant events, Captain Battelle has lost her command and most of her crew, maybe even all of her crew, and it doesn't warrant so much as an acknowledgement by anybody, it even her, win like when Pike gets there. and yeah
00:37:18
Speaker
shit the fur Yeah, the first thing she says is, you idiot, not like, how's my ship? You know what I mean? And just they're all just happy that they saved Christine Chapel. Even Patel is happy. Oh, Nurse Chapel's okay. I lost my entire command. Yeah, the absolute overreaction to seeing Nurse Chapel live and well versus anything else that's happening on it and during the whole episode is why. I'm so glad to see you. She's the woman who dumps Spock. If she can do that, she can do anything. I've heard tell of her. No, that's not really her. Is it true? she She first wasn't accepted for that fellowship.
00:38:01
Speaker
Okay, um this leads me into my next Trek Trope. Christine Chappell. trying to signal the enterprise with a wait drugstore flashlight. Not even like the fancy ones they sometimes have on Star Trek or like a Maglite. No. No, just whatever the security officer on set had. The batteries are dead. Okay. And then
00:38:35
Speaker
then remember remember she's able to fix the life support in her area. She's able to the life support in her area. However. Unable to get the flashlight to work more than one second and. So by the way, the enterprise is what got to be. My like miles. From her a significant distance, yes, yeah, because yeah. Now, O'Hara did say we we have a line of sight to the planet. Right. yeah and the And so it's not like why and she's desperate, but I feel like the desperation should have been more you know the just the whole thought that she's waking up from being knocked unconscious at the beginning of at the exact right moment. It's like what if she was just like twisted around, not like impaled, but like actually trapped and there's like a dead body or something.
00:39:29
Speaker
and like something more visceral. And when she sees the enterprise, because they did establish that the Cayuga saucer has been turning slowly this whole time, that would have been a cool visual. She finally is like, tries to get out and she can't and then she sees the enterprise and that's what finally pushes her to like, get herself free herself. That would have been cool. ah But no, instead, it's this. sure She's running around with her wig bouncing everywhere and shiny broken flashlight. and Yeah. And also we do here in and I don't know. Against all odds, she sees Spock floating by, and she bangs on the window and calls his name to try to get his attention. yeah So not sure if anyone listening is aware of this, but there's no sound in space.
00:40:12
Speaker
on the TV shows and the movies, there's sound because it would be too weird to not have sound, but there's no sound.
Character Development and Dialogue
00:40:20
Speaker
Now, you could argue that maybe she thought that creating vibrations might get yeah attention if they were in more artificial sounding, in which case, well, why wouldn't you then bang on a bulkhead to create? She doesn't use the flashlight to bang. She uses the palm of her hand. Hello, Spock, in like a little speaking voice. and do it more often than just a few times. so Yeah. ah does like o He left. Very silly. Well, he's in a little spacesuit. I guess Wes Luck would have it. I too have a spacesuit handy sorry and decides to do her own spacewalk.
00:40:59
Speaker
And I also have a, Pike doesn't know what to do. Isn't he supposed to be like a pretty serious captain? He was ah promoted a free a fleet captain for a hot second. And then as Ortega points out, wasn't he a test pilot? Why is his stomach turning at this extreme maneuver? you just my trip I put the trip that you just mentioned as Pike always needing to call his boss whenever there's a problem. Like he always has to report in or check in or make sure whatever he's doing is sanctioned. He's like the like the most mealy mouth middle manager. And when you look at him out, he projects strength. And again, Henry Alonzo Myers was very cutesy when he's like, well, our show is imagines what if the cage was the real pilot and we're building off of that.
00:41:43
Speaker
That Jeffrey Hunter was like a weary guy who's like, I'm sick of going on these missions and me having to kill my way out of all these situations and losing some crew members in the process. That guy was a tough guy. He was not like he would bridge no fools. He would, you know, and this one's just like, I got to go go ask my boss and see why a at all times. And I feel like it wasn't early. So I didn't notice it as much in season one. No, it's this is a season two. um I'll say now they lost two key writers ah in between seasons. So everyone, a lot of people who are like big X-Men fans, you know, they did the X-Men 97 for Disney Plus, range by the way.
00:42:26
Speaker
That show is run by or was until he was fired for i guess i guess he has an only fans account or something maybe with something worse than that i don't know but bode mayo is that was the show runner for that and he was a writer on this is a tough it is for a writer these days you gotta have an only fans exactly being like a showrunner yeah. of like a real actual fucking show. Yeah. That Disney show us major show yeah streaming a Marvel show. You got to have a side gig doing only fans or who knows what else, but yeah. Okay. So he was a writer in season one. Yeah. He was a writer in season one and then Akila Cooper, writer of Megan and malignant and other ones. She's no, you know, Megan did well. So she's got other projects. So she was on staff last year and she's not the one I hated. What's the one I hate? Oh no. that What's the stupid one? the
00:43:14
Speaker
could be any number of movies. Most of them are stupid. Oh, she didn't write it. Oh, I don't think she wrote it. That's the other. no No, that's the other weird, creepy doll one. Right. OK. Yes. Megan is the one that you said was good. I didn't see it. um It was fun. And okay those two were gone and it looks like all they really did was replace it with maybe one of the writers from Lord X, which is why the season was much more comedy based. You know, basically. ah So that's definitely a big change and it still starts at the top. I mean, this episode was written by the showrunner. It's not like, you know, they had to quickly rewrite someone who didn't know the characters. This is how they want the characters to be. So I don't know. It's a choice.
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, so like, I get that he was like, ah that handsome man was on, you know, parental leave during a lot of this, but that's no excuse for just having him be like, let's play charades or I don't know what to do. Let's call the boss because the trick that we always or the trope that we always talk about is like the evil admiral. But in this case, this is like, I got to go call my my good boss who likes me. Right. Like it almost never comes into play because it's like the admirals like when I can't do that. Right. but You can't or yeah you got to do this. You got to do that. like Right. Well, we have our reasons for letting the Gorin kidnap our people. We don't want to start a conflict. And then pike that's unacceptable to me. We're not going to do that. I'm right here. I can do something right now. and yeah I'm going to go rogue. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:43
Speaker
And the point is, is not like, well, we see every Star Trek captain do this. Well, the point is how does our captain like Janeway deals with these conflicts differently from Picard. You know, they have similar there's overlap in terms of what they face and how they deal with them. Like all drama tells us who these characters are and well. When there's conflict, all we've seen Pike do is lie and avoid and then shit his pants. Like that's all we saw him do this year. And then Anson Mount fluctuating between a total ham and like ah like ah an aloof Ken doll, like Ryan Gosling-esque from Barbie. It's like so it's just a very strange season for him.
00:45:23
Speaker
Along those lines, a strange new worlds trope, another one. ah The characters are really stupid. Like they act stupid, I don't mean like the characters the actors are bad, the characters though. So Ortega's who pilots the ship, so she has to like keep it away from debris that could damage it. and had previously piloted the ship through asteroid debris and fields and all that stuff. She looks at her console and she's like, Hmm, what's this? Prompting number one to answer debris from the Cayuga. And it's like, maybe the trope should be like the, just like discovery. They're just awful at exposition. They have to like make the character stupid to explain what the plan is. Cause it's like you get this debris field to set up her explaining her plan of how they're going to sneak through it to get down to the planet.
00:46:09
Speaker
Yeah. Pike observes a ah green floating machine and says, that doesn't look native. And then they have to get closer to it to explain that. Oh, that's the thing that's generating the inner the interference field. So is this a movie or not? You know what I mean? Like, are you trusting your audience or not? if They're not. So they make the characters sound stupid. You know, Sam Kirk, I've been picking up an anomalous signal coming from down the street. Pike, Gorn Kirk, no human. That's not anomalous. It's what they were looking for. for.
00:46:40
Speaker
how Battelle shoots down every single one of Pike's suggestions for surviving this experience. And in the course of the conversation, he's like, well, maybe we could do this. She's like, no, we can't do that. bubble There's nothing we can do, Chris. And over the course of the conversation, ah More or less reveal she doesn't know who the fuck Scotty is this guy that just crash-landed in front of her eyes and showed up and joined the group and has Presumably been helping with the gorn trap, but she didn't ask him any questions about him how he got there what he's doing Laan doesn't know what a coronal mass ejection or CME is because they need someone to ask What is a CME? Because that's like an actual science term and they assume the audience is too stupid to know that so now it has to go in the aun's mouth to ask that question I feel like prior to that, like in other Star Trek, if it was something that needed to be explained, there'd be a reason there'd be somebody there who because of their like specialty or something, yes, wouldn't know what it was.
00:47:36
Speaker
So then they get, well, what's that? Or they just say, it's a CME, otherwise known as? Yes. But then in the same conversation, ah she is talking and she is understanding what they're saying. So she's saying like, okay, so sunspots, they're they're sensitive to and i'm like, you didn't know what that was a second ago. But now you're using the common term of a CME. So it's like it's the way they break up exposition. They are terrible at it. Let's just yeah say it for all these shows. It's just awful. Yeah, like just ah and explain it to the audience or they I don't know. It's just yeah, I get what you're saying. I agree with you. I think and other times it's like let's make Ortega's or whoever.
00:48:21
Speaker
ask a stupid question to make them look stupid, even though they're not stupid, like the Louis Pasteur shit, or that he was right in front of me. Well, it's the thing you were just navigating around. Yes. It's just there the tone of this episode is like really strong and like it's creating attention and a mood. Yeah, by the way, I did not hate this episode. I just want to be like, I like this episode, actually. There's just like little things that I wish it were written a little bit tighter. Like, I don't know if that's because they have to write an outrageous amount of Star Trek in a very quick time and don't have time to like actually, you know, go through all this stuff and workshop it. And they probably have some scheduling things. Well, we can't have this person in that in the scene or whatever, or we can't have this set, we can't have this.
00:49:10
Speaker
And they have, they have executives constantly asking questions and wanting it to make it so that anyone could come in at any second and understand 100% of what's going on. Like there's just a lot of cooks in the kitchen for sure. But it is, it it just, it's annoying when these characters, the actors are so competent and you could see the potential and then they just get bogged down by really stupid shit. Like a lot of ham handed dialogue to explain pretty simple stuff. Anyway, uh, along those lines, well, and then another thing they do, which drives another thing. Well, a secret hideout trope, the repetition of an obnoxious computer voice. They do it across all the new Star Trek shows. So, uh, like, I don't know if it's like a troll at this point. Uh, you know, in Star Trek, Picard season three, it was Raffi buying drugs or information and she's, and it's like transaction
00:50:02
Speaker
complete. Like they always have like a little annoying computer voice repeating the same phrase over and over again. And this one, warning oxygen will soon reach critical levels. yeah It's kind of like calling out shield percentages. I don't know what that means. Why not warning life support failure, blank number of minutes of breathable air remaining. but I mean, like what ist it would it be oxygen critical levels, it would be carbon monoxide or whatever, right or dangerous levels of carbon. Yeah, it could be carbon dioxide exposure is you know something like that. But it's just it's like a nonspecific warning. And yet they repeat it multiple times or even just low oxygen.
Themes and Performances
00:50:39
Speaker
I don't know.
00:50:41
Speaker
ah I put this as a worst trek trope because they didn't do anything with it. When Starfleet makes organizational decisions based on their assessment of an emotional situation, so Chris, I know you and Marie are close. I just want to make sure it's not going to color your judgment. It doesn't lead to anything. In Star Trek First Contact, Starfleet's like, no, we're not sending the Enterprise to battle the Borg because Picard, you were assimilated by the Borg and you might go crazy. You know what I mean? like So we're protecting you. So like that was a ah conflict created by ah that acknowledgement. But here, it's just like a soapy reminder. Your girlfriend's in the middle of this episode, don't forget, but it doesn't actually lead anywhere. So I put it as a worst when it could have been a best.
00:51:21
Speaker
um inconsistent ah technobabble. So the GORN have a jamming frequency that prevents the enterprise from doing anything, including scanners and sensors. And yet Spock says a spectrometric analysis suggests there are still pockets of oxygen on board. Sorry, that's sensors. so yeah Also, Pike and Laan marvel at this jamming device on the surface, and this exchange really proves my point. Laan says, it's blocking any signals from surface to orbit. And then Pike says, so they drop that and no one on the ground can call for help. And yet, Kristin, do you remember that they received Captain Patel's distress call from the surface? Yes.
00:52:03
Speaker
And which is what alerts the other presence. It seems like the episode forgets that she sent that distress call like halfway through that that happened. And we don't see it like there's no remnants of that, right? Like Scotty was the one who helped to send us the message that we got before they changed the frequency or whatever. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't pay off anywhere. and And then the final one is nurses, Ensign doctor. Again, we bring this up every time. Marie's like, I need you to take me out if these gorn eggs hatch. She's not a doctor.
00:52:35
Speaker
Yeah, she is not a doctor. She she could probably kill you, though. Yeah, well, yeah, that's true. You are you know, she's going to be an accessory to murder, too, in case you need any of that done. She was introduced as a bit of a Kevorkian, right? She was like, this is going to really hurt. That was like one of her first scenes. She was not a Kevorkian, but like, what's the... I think they're instrumental. Yeah, I don't know. Like, ah I get thrills from hurting people. Got it. One of those creepos. Any other worst strict troops? um Yeah. To be continued on a show that it has like over a year between seasons is fucking insane. to To be continued of this magnitude, a absolute like dead end, like absolute cliffhanger.
00:53:21
Speaker
That's great. What an amazing because they knew there was going to be a strike. They knew that there was already a production lag in between. It's people will be waiting a year. That's awesome. It's not like, oh, I'll see what happens on the other side. Like even none of the other shows would have done something that. Crazy, in my opinion. Like that's too much, I think, of a cliffhanger between seasons. That's awesome. For any I mean, for any like non like Game of Thrones show, I guess, even even they wouldn't even do something that bad, but. They're pretty bad. Yeah, and even in the what is it the the dragon, the new Dragon House of the Dragon, like they do they do in that bad. It didn't end on a cliffhanger. It ended on like, well, the status quo has been irrevocably yeah altered. And that's not what's happening here for sure. Most of its time quality.
00:54:14
Speaker
Um, so there's a, there's a store in the, the town that says men's and ladies farmware. And so that's just not, that's obviously like a modern person's interpretation of what a store would have looked like in the and a frontier town. Along those lines, there's a, arm way the diner that they're in has a flat screen TV and it has a shelter in place warning on it. That's very of its time. ah Subspace radio is akin to a 5G cellular network, Pike and Patel are FaceTiming. It's not.
00:54:56
Speaker
it's um it's interest it's It's going through like interstellar space faster than the speed of light, like literally warp speed. And the fact that they just use it for casual conversations. you couldt You could have just done it with like, you're using the captain's priority channel to say hi. You know what I mean? like They could have done something more than that. But anyway, um Captain Patel, Nurse Chapel's relationship. Everyone's on a first name basis on the show anyway, but it's kind of galling to watch it happen when Chapel's not even a member of
00:55:27
Speaker
of Battelle's crew and she seems more interested in chapel than she does her own crew member, who is an ensign that she just calls Doug. Ensign Doug? That's of its time. Doug? i die Yeah, hey Doug. but This is my baby, yeah Doug. Douglas. well I think I think Pike's assertion sometimes a monster is just a monster. That's something we all need to believe, especially in the post 9-11 world. And coming out of a Star Trek character's mouth is anti-Star Trek to some degree, but it also Star Trek has always reflected the time in which it's made. And I think that's very of its time, that sentiment. i mean It'd be nice to believe that, right? It's easy. Yeah.
00:56:10
Speaker
Our bad guys are animals. they're They're not people as we understand them. They must be destroyed because they will destroy us if we give them a chance. That's pretty simple. Ortega says break in case of gorn when the weapons uh, appear yeah in the ready room. She also so calls them super cool toys. These yeah weapons of killing and and vicious killing and death. But I'm not putting that as a negative cause I'm sure our troops today when they get weapons, like they look at these super cool toys. i just put that you Most of his time. Anyway, super cool. I think as maybe the phrase zombie movies as a reference, like it's just like a zombie movie when you have to pretend to be the
00:56:53
Speaker
the dead person you're pretending to be the debris. Okay, that is like a stretch. But okay. um It kind of gets paid off in what you said, but tell them winds up being the person who doesn't reveal that she has. Yeah. So this is like they're trying to do a zombie movie. A little bit. Yeah, in this episode. And it like and it's a pretty gruesome set too. Yeah. um ah Fine. I'm also i put that they're basically just trying to do like aliens. Oh, I have a note on that later. that Yeah, like the gorg kind of look like alien from aliens. Yeah, I had the zombie movies too. I mean, it fits right there. Yes.
00:57:33
Speaker
yes and ah howster But a show that's ah consumed by 10 year old jokes is, of course, 10 years behind. but I feel like, you know, Walking Dead was popular, but all that was kind of like prepend. Oh, my God. Talk about a show that jumped the shark. Yeah. I mean, but I mean, people still will always like zombie stuff, but I feel like its peak was maybe like, yeah, it's eight years ago a bit passé. Yeah. ah origin stories. i and It's kind of maybe this is a little unfair, but at the same time, it's the way they do it. So this is Scotty's first adventure in the enterprise. And of course, the way that it happens is kind of like how all prequels are where it's like, oh, they don't know each other. So they're adversaries, you know, they're kind of trapped, they're stuck in his trap. And he's got his arms folded. I have no idea why this is his attitude. Shouldn't he be happy to see other humans?
00:58:23
Speaker
You know what I mean? And why doesn't he let them out right away? Instead, we get this whole thing about how smart he is just to show, like, I'm a legacy character, and I'm in the show now. You know, just kind of that thing. Any other most of his time? No. And the other one is feature film quality visual effects for a TV show. The going looked good. The saucer sequence looks great. I mean, I did. I mean, that really looked fantastic. Yeah. Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great lines. Um, I only have two, sometimes a monster is just a monster. Pike, haven't you been bugging me for months to join a landing party? And then this is the line or take us. Yes, I have. Why have I been doing that? I like that moment. Pike barbershop now. And I know that was for safety, but I love that it's pike saying that but it like not to cut my hair now. Let's be very clear. I assume the going of taking off the cutting instruments.
00:59:20
Speaker
Any others? i Yeah, so when when Una, Spock, and Uhura are on the bridge and they're talking about zombie movies, ah Una says, you've never seen one? And Spock replies, a zombie? No. A movie? Yes. But I will add it to my research. Yeah, but I'll add it to my research. That's great. I had never won a little pad of paper. soer know Doesn't Captain America have that in Winter Soldier? Yeah, it's great. And like, by the way, the chip one it's different for each territory. So if you have like the DVD from other like there's a screen grabs from other countries, like from other versions. And it's like, just cultural touchstones for that particular culture.
01:00:08
Speaker
That's funny. Yeah. Uh, then the last one I have is number one's line to Spock. Can't make this red alert any redder, Mr. Spock. yeah I have just appreciated that. Uh, the Anton Kringen award for best performance. You go first cause I don't know. I don't know. i don't i don't This is my thought on the episode. Everyone like everyone came to play. This definitely felt like it's our last episode of the season. Let's really give it all we got. But who knows? Like I shot my last scene six weeks ago. I don't know. It's like it's hard to know they do block shoot a lot of this. But I still think every performance was.
01:00:42
Speaker
somewhere between fine and great or find a good. I don't really know. It's kind of the material they're working with. So like, does anyone get a moment like Patel gets a lot of moments or she's in a lot of scenes, but are is she great? Is she doing anything interesting in any of them? No, but the actors like selling it, whatever's there fine. I will say that the Scotty guy, I was a little surprised by how like laconic or languid his speech was. I thought he kind of slowed the scenes down that he was in. He was kind of tired and it kind of brought the energy down. So I thought that was weird. But he wasn't bad, though, looking forward to seeing more of a Scotty. And I liked ah Carol Kane's reactions both to seeing Scotty and Una's answer that surprises her. I thought she gave good performance answers there. Yeah, it's hard to give to Anson Mount because of that stupid gulp.
01:01:36
Speaker
It's really I'm sorry, I can't give it to him. ah I'm sorry, boo. can I want to give it to Ethan Peck, but I think it's this. ah her It's tough. I'm usually with him, but the material again, I don't know. This is a tough one. general I think it's just because they try to give everybody something. and But no one got anything truly great. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fair. So let's give it to the cast. All right. Let's give a participation medal for them. Yeah. Then the Shatner though. I have a Shatner. Okay. Jess Bush as Christine Chappell. She really had to go for it.
01:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, OK. She she's really she has to play a lot of emotions when they beam back on the enterprise after Spock's rescued her and is like immediately putting them to work over the intercom. She actually is processing what's happening and like not breaking down, but is like very. ah fragile. And then she kind of does snap into professionalism. So I mean, like she's she's acting. But I'm just saying in that whole sequence where she's, you know, locked in the room with the killer, basically, and banging on, you know, oh, no, she ran upstairs. She literally runs upstairs. She runs to the bridge. Yeah. Like ah so she's playing, you know, she's playing the final girl. So I think you always get a shatner for being the final girl. Yeah. What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? Well, apparently nothing about how sound doesn't travel in space, but OK. She's a nurse. Zombie movies. Zombie movies. Yes. I guess that weird sunspot thing. Yeah, the Gorn being triggered by coronal mass ejections. That's what I had. Perhaps you can communicate with them. That's right. Or control them. And I guess, yeah, the the thing that Scotty did to make the ship look like a
01:03:40
Speaker
corn vessel. I wonder if Starfleet Academy, because it's supposed to take place far in the future, if there's still going to be ah like a a unit of like Scotty fixes, you know what I mean? Like there's just like an entire class on on Montgomery Scott and all the shit he did. over the years. ah Could this episode have been hornier and would that have made it better? Yes and yes to bring up the aliens reference that you made. And the show has certainly used it in episode nine last season. That was straight up ripping off aliens and the thing and all that stuff. But aliens has a sexy scene where Hicks shows Ripley how to use a pulse rifle, which is about as horny as that movie got.
01:04:21
Speaker
Yeah, it feels like they could have found a similar situation here, perhaps to add a ah dimension of horniness here. I know they're trying to like show that Anson Mount's comfortable with being the second banana. So he couldn't show Patel, who's a captain in her own right, how to use the new phaser rifles that they got from Starfleet. Right. They couldn't do that. But that something along those lines, maybe if they had introduced one of the the colonists or Tagus could have shown them, you know what I mean? It could have been a little sexual. I don't know. Cause she's a war veteran, right? In episode eight, we got all that stuff about the war and then she's like, and is own the war then yeah yeah yeah, there's nothing sexual about this show and it's a pain. It sucks. Yeah. Everyone's hot, but nobody's horny. I think that's a, it's just, it's a sad state of affairs.
01:05:08
Speaker
it It truly is. It truly is. Maybe it's because the show shoots in Canada. Maybe just Canadians aren't too cold. It's too cold to be horny. I mean, that's actually just like the opposite, right? You're supposed to stay inside. and That's all there is to do. and And it's better to ah be naked, to get warmth, ah to exchange warmth between two people than to wear clothes. Is that true? I think because you're I don't know if you're I think I think like clothing materials on the team heat conductivity of the clothing. There we go. There we go.
Episode Rating and Season Wrap-Up
01:05:40
Speaker
All right. So Trek marry or kill hegemony? I guess I'm just going to give it a trek. I don't feel like killing it. And I don't like marrying it either. I'm with you. It's solidly a trek. Although if we are really using Trek to stand in for fuck then that's not going to happen because we know this show does not. No, it does not.
01:05:59
Speaker
No, sadly for, sad it's sad sad for itself, really. So like if we were to look at the season as a whole and bookend either end of it, we did not like the season premiere was stealing the enterprise and then the whole ah hulking out fight sequence, yeah just the way it was like overdone. So, but that episode was like trying to do something and it bit off a big piece and it bit off more than it could chew. Here, I feel like this episode was also trying to go for something. And at least with that saucer sequence, actually for the whole, for the most part, I think it really,
01:06:31
Speaker
aim It got what it aimed at. Now, did it aim for anything like, did it aim for the bullseye? I don't think so, but it certainly hit its target. I i do think the saucer sequence is pretty memorable and ah and well done. Marge Overvillo is a good director. She created There was a tone to this one. And even though the characters were quippy at times, it still felt pretty serious, which is why when they acted stupid, I was annoyed. Because I'm like, hold on. I'm trying to buy the reality you're creating. Stop. You're doing a good job of creating a moment, and then it just gets undermined by some really bad stuff. But this episode wasn't really about anything, which is why I can't marry it. The best of both worlds, to use the example they're borrowing on,
01:07:16
Speaker
That whole episode was about Riker being, you know, his anxiety is about becoming captain, right? And there's that line of like, we pulled, this is the third time we pulled out the captain's chair for Riker. He just won't sit down. And the episode ends with him being like, well, the only way I'll become captain in the Enterprise is to kill Picard. You know what I mean? Like, so it actually the episode ends paying off what it's about. And then it's got this big cliffhanger and it's the Borg and it's exciting. But it's it was about something. And this one, I'm not sure what this one's about, because it's not about Pike being the Boy Scout who can't make a decision. You know what I mean? Like in the way that you would know it is, they would they should have called attention to that either in the April scene or, you know, basically in the April scene and they don't. So is it a big swing that connects, Kristen?
01:08:02
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I guess we'll have to see the next episode. Like, what is what is it setting up here? Well, that's a fair point. I put some, some, not all, some of the capable crew have been beamed to the Gorn ship. Oh, man. Mabenga's murder. Bing is going to kill a lot of Gorn. He is probably wishing he brought his winter soldiers with him wherever he goes. He takes it with him where he's got it. go Here we go. Yep. In my notes, I put why ellipsis es? So yes, because the saucer sequence is pretty cool. And they plausibly set up a conflict between the Gorn ignoring arena where I'm like, I'm kind of interested to see what they do here.
01:08:49
Speaker
So yeah would you look at that? We've wrapped up a another season of Trek, Marry, Kill, and another season of Strange New Worlds. So we've trekked four, married two, and killed four. That's what we did for season two of Strange New Worlds. It was a season of big swings. that featured two ideas that still feature two ideas normally reserved for long running TV shows that are out of ideas, the crossover episode and the musical episode. But ah how did you feel about Strange New Worlds overall? We kind of been touching on this through the entire episode, though. Yeah, I i'm down ah Strange New Worlds. I have probably it seems like I don't. I think it could be a tighter show.
01:09:32
Speaker
I think it's a bit of a disappointment coming off of the promise of season one that they were able to kind of walk a line and provoke diehard fans with some of their references, but aim to tell us different story off of that. And here it just seemed like, let's just dig right into TV tropes to like fill out our outlines. And there's just kind of like an extra 2% of uniqueness that felt like it was missing. But, um, anyway. Overall through 20 episodes. I know people care. Strange New Worlds is at 11 treks, three marries and six kills. Uh, and for our franchise tally, all the star treks, uh, 86 treks, 42 marries and 33 kills. So right now we're actually disproving 30, 40, 30, that 30% of the episodes are great. 40% are fine.
01:10:23
Speaker
and 30% are bad, but it's more like 26, 53, 21 stuff. But basically we've said so far the ones we've done, like more than half have been Trek. They've been solid episodes of Star Trek. Listen, it turns out, we yeah, we actually like Star Trek. We actually like Star Trek a lot. it's it takes you know It takes a lot for us to kill an episode, I think. That's right. And it's ah it's a tradition of geeks to pick things apart too. but Yeah. I do feel like we're we're ex examined we're kind of taking the best of Strange New Worlds and holding each episode up against the best of what it can be and going, hmm, I've seen it do better. And this definitely felt like one of those times, but it wasn't bad.
Acknowledgments and Contributions
01:11:04
Speaker
Yeah, I like doing these little season wrap ups, but you can always check TrekMaryKillpod dot.com for all of our standings. If you're curious.
01:11:11
Speaker
So since we're wrapping up our second season of the show, I got to say some thank yous and I'm going to begin with Katie Hampton from the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast, who has been a tremendous addition to the show ah for our monthly animated spotlights. She's in the Jerry Seinfeld movie Unfrosted as a costume chicken. Well, now I gotta watch it. You can't see her face, but you can just feel her energy. So ah check that out. But Katie, thank you so much for being on and working through Lower Decks with me. I also want to thank Caitlin Hempstead. Check out her podcast, Lizard People, Comedy and kind Conspiracy Theories. Ryan Riddle and Mark Farinas. Check out their podcast, The Ship Full of Jerks.
01:11:49
Speaker
Michael Bauman, check out his cycling blog, Wheely Sports, Cherise and Andrea, check out their podcast, the TNG podcast, and Cherise's TikTok channel, The Sci-Fi Savage. ah From the spool dot.net, we had two writers, Clint Worthington, who is the editor-in-chief, but also recently became an associate editor for rogeriebert.com, and also Andrew Bloom. Check out his substack in full bloom at andrewbloom.substack.com. our mutual friend Kristin Kat Spada from Feminist Frequency Radio, who this year brought along her partner Ethan.
01:12:22
Speaker
Friend of the Terminally Online, Fancense09, Star Trek superfan, Marina Kravchek, TV critic, Diana Kang, writer, director, and lost boy from the movie hook, Thomas Tulock. Check out his film, Who Dunt Dunt Dunt It? Excuse me, Who Dunt Dunt Dunt It? The Movie. Actor, director, Heidi Cox. Check out her web series, Stocking LaVar. Actor, director, Sam Gregory. Check out her production company, Sam Hill Productions. Writer, Cassie Soliday and their husband, Matt. Cassie has a podcast, the Ink and Paint folk, and Matt's an animator whose work can be seen in the upcoming Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man. We also had an animator from Star Trek Prodigy. His name was Matt. Check out Star Trek Prodigy on Netflix right now. Help it get a third season. Author Tom Slinski, who's booked Star Trek, Discovering the TV series, the original series, the animated series, and The Next Generation comes out today, July 30th in hardcover and on Kindle. He helped me judge Voyager's threshold. He also co-hosts an Academy Awards podcast called
01:13:19
Speaker
the Best Pick movie podcast. And he's also, Kristen, the guest who's beamed in from farthest away. He's he's based in the UK. Oh, so what time did you guys record? I had to do a noon record for me and wait for him. Amazing. Yeah. ah robert ah Writer Robert Skier, whose animated feature Goldbeak should be releasing soon. He was on our episode about the apple with Kurt Carley, an actor, and Jim Newman. Check out Jim Newman's podcast, Go Fact Yourself, which is featured at time, some Star Trek veterans. And also Brian Drew and Kayla Iacovino from trekmovie.com is the shuttle pod.
01:14:00
Speaker
How can I forget the charming vocalist, cellist, and Grammy award-winning Becca, who joined us to judge Subspace Rhapsody last week, Emmy award-winning writer and New York Times bestselling author Joshua Pruitt, Emmy award-winning writer Bill Hanstock, and the fantastic Lori Ulster from TrekMovie.com, who's not only been a great guest, but an ardent supporter of our show. Yes. Hello, Lori. We appreciate you, and we're grateful for you taking the time to spotlight Trick, Marry, Kill whenever you've had the opportunity. It means a lot. I think we should also think, uh, Brian, you. Well, I'm not done thinking other people, but no one is. I just, these are all amazing guests. I'd have them back in the heartbeats. Uh, I, I only know how good I've had it with my guest hose co-host though, because of you, Kristen. Oh yeah. Thank you. You're incomparable stupendous.
01:14:48
Speaker
ah Thank you for simply being yourself. I do consider the show a passion project and it's easy to get caught up in prep and production and being annoyed by certain choices that the show makes that I might lose track of the fun. But when I come in here and record, you're like the heart and soul of the show. ah And as much as the format is, because let's be honest. Thank you so much, Brian. Well, thank you, Kristin. I appreciate it. Everyone should know that it's actually Brian who does all the work. so like Yeah, you book all the guests and you edit everything. I just show up for an hour a week and not even every week. And like you're you when you were the a student in class, when you were Scotty, you you give 80 percent when you're here and it's great. So yeah, thank you. but Thank you. Sometimes I like I even write down quotes from the show. I know. Whatever the times you told me, by the way, I read the rundown. um' I like blackout for half a second.
01:15:42
Speaker
I sometimes don't have time to read it. I know you don't. And it's always a wall of text. It's nuts. I actually tried today too, but then like, you know, stuff got in the way. I read like half of it. You were here. That's what matters. You were great as always. And last but not least, I think we need to thank our listeners. Oh, okay. how we received All 10 of you have been such great supporters. More than 10. More than 10. We've received feedback this year. I think that would make Spock emotional. So there's that. I appreciate it. ah Just anyone who takes the time to listen and reach out, it means a lot. And it's more than 10 people, which is also great because it means not just our families. ah well My family does not listen to this. OK.
01:16:37
Speaker
ah We'll be back in September with new episodes. If you have the time, consider rating and reviewing us wherever you listen. Help spread the word even. Like I said, we're on the web at trekmarikillpod.com and on social media at trekmarikapod. Suggestions, comments you don't want to make public, drop us a line, trekmarikillpod.com. There's secret comments that you might have about our podcast that you can't say out loud. That's right. If you want to chime in being like, you don't know the notes we get from Paramount Plus. Fine. Like, yeah, you we can keep you anonymous. Like, I just assume the notes are horrendous.
Production Insights and Future Plans
01:17:15
Speaker
But I wait, when does sorry, before we say enough, when does Strange New Worlds come back? I think they just finished TBD filming. It's potentially going to come out at the beginning of next year. So we might get to it.
01:17:34
Speaker
Right, right now I have it on a distant schedule of season four, which is a thing I kind of don't want to think about. It's easy for me to like schedule season five because that lines up with the 60th anniversary of the original series. I'm like, oh, that's fine. And that's about as far as I go, because in my mind, I'm like five years. That's a long time. And I don't know. So we're not going to see our our beautiful boys. That's right. We're not going to answer them out. Ants him out. Yeah, he's going to have soul pants for like a year. Ethan Peck and Sam Crook's mustache. We won't see for many months. That's right. That's right. I am super curious to know what's going to happen, though, because of that picture that Jess Bush posted of... That's fucking weird.
01:18:22
Speaker
that we might have to do a special episode on that fucking wig that she posted a picture of. Now, this thing looks like it's it looks like if you had like Cousin It's wig, but you cut some bangs and then you threw it in like an industrial washing machine and dryer and then you hung it on a fence post because that's what it looks like it was hung on. It was blowing in the wind. It was on a sea stand. Whatever. That wig is horrible.
01:19:00
Speaker
Horrendous. And by the way, I need you to give me your opinion about her eyebrows now that you've seen that screen grab. She was banging on that window. And it's it looks it looks worse than normal. I'm not like a stereotypical- They make them too dark for, they fill them in too much. Okay, that's my question. I don't understand what you're zeroing in on, because I'm not a typical guy, admittedly, but at least about that kind of stuff, I'm at a complete loss. So they just- Well, like me, Brian, you've never had to ah fill your eyebrows in.
01:19:43
Speaker
No, in fact, whenever I go get my hair cut, she's like, do you want me to dream your ah eyebrows? Yeah, um not a problem for me and Brian. However, they they fill her eyebrows in so dark that it's like so much darker than her hair. It stands out. It looks it looks wild, especially in certain lighting, like when she's banging the on the window or like with her hand or using the flashlight on the window. And as someone who has pretty dark eyebrows compared to my hair color, that's too dark. They didn't even lighten it up or stop filling them in that much. And I've seen pictures of Jess Bush. She doesn't do her eyebrows like that in real life. OK, it's not her. the Whatever is going on with her makeup, like the wig is now that I'm fully aware of it is just very distracting. they Yeah, the wig is really distracting.
01:20:37
Speaker
Because, it it again, they have yeah a color unnatural. It like it looks so strange and with her skin tone and the eyebrows. They need to change up. They need to change some stuff up, but if it's the change up with that wig I saw in that picture, they need to go back to square one because that that isn't it either. That's even worse. It looks like that, you know, that Angela, Angelina Jolie's wig and Girl Interrupted, Sure. OK. I'm zooming in on a high res picture now for eyebrows and they look.
01:21:15
Speaker
they look bushy. So maybe this is a season one eyebrow. Maybe I need a season two eyebrow. Yeah. I don't know. I don't have any, I don't have any strong opinions one way or the other. It's just the the wig is it's distracting. The whole, the whole look is distracting. I feel like she's a very attractive person. They don't need to be putting her in that ridiculous that I mean, sometimes the wig is fine, but they need to do something. I don't know. Because they always have her wig match her white outfit. That's what i is so strange. Like do something different with that. Her outfit is not
01:21:55
Speaker
I guess flattering is the word. It's just, it's weird. Just the color, it washes her out. The whole thing washes her out and they put her in really pale makeup too. And that isn't like the pictures I've seen of her in like real life, you know, she doesn't look like that either. Maybe that's why they do that with the eyebrows then is to give her some contrast. Yeah. that Well, yes, I'm sure that's the case, but like, I don't know. They need to figure something out. Well, they're going to have a long time to do it yeah because for some reason they've decided they're going to take a whole year off between shooting the show. So I thought they just wrapped. the They just wrapped season three and they're not going to start until spring of 2025 shooting season four. Oh, OK. OK. Yeah. OK. So yeah. So we're not going to get a resolution on this until.
01:22:49
Speaker
We're not going to hear. 2026 at the earliest. Okay. Well, they're taking our notes, which I fear they are. I'm sure they get. i'm I'm sure they listen an at 90 minutes into a podcast to get the hair and makeup notes. Maybe I'll move this to the front. Maybe we'll yeah season we'll do a format change. I have some notes. Yeah. We'll have a whole category. What is wrong with the hair makeup and wardrobe? That's right. So yeah, if you guys have any like thoughts on different categories, or yeah, we could do that too. We can change it up. Absolutely. Always. We change it up here and there. That's right. All right. So thanks again for listening until September. TMK out. Bye.