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VOY: "Future's End, Part I" (s3e8)
108 Plays3 months ago
TIME TO DIE? Voyager's involvement in a temporal explosion throws them into a causality loop that brings them to Los Angeles in the year 1996. Bryan & Kristen continue their Star Trek Predicts... Today! theme month to see just how well the writers blended Star Trek and 1996. Meanwhile, there's plenty of talk about what life was like in the late 1900s, a serious correction to last week's episode, and education about women's clothing that you don't want to miss.
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Transcript
Temporal Anomaly Sends Voyager to 1996
00:00:00
Speaker
Next on Trek Mary Kill. Soaps, tropes, rain. Against the greatest odds. Get us out of here. The cruel Voyager is coming back to Earth. Where are we? Los Angeles. There's only one problem. The year is 1996. Now trapped in the past. They're about to cause a terrible disaster. Can they stop a deadly adversary from destroying the future? Kill them! Get down! On the next Star Trek Voyager.
Introduction to Trek Mary Kill Podcast
00:00:43
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Kristen. Welcome to Trek Mary Kill, a podcast where we create episodes of Star Trek using a groovy list of questions. We arrive at a final judgment of value. Our theme to kick off our third season has been Star Trek Predicts.
00:00:58
Speaker
Today, before we get into this week's review, I need to issue an urgent, vital correction for our last episode, past tense part two. Emergency correction. That's right. This all
Personal Story: Astroburger and Paramount Studios
00:01:12
Speaker
really happened. I was listening to the episode like as a quality assurance measure as I was driving through the drive through for Astroburger, which as I was coming home, Astroburger, for those who don't know, is at the corner of Gower and Melrose. And it is right there right at the end of the block right next to Paramount Studios. You can go right across. I have driven past it hundreds of times, probably never stopped.
00:01:41
Speaker
effectively a Greek diner with a drive through. And they have a menu that spans, you know, from burgers. Oh, yeah, it's like gyros and burgers. And yes, and yeah, burritos and yeah and high and everything you can want. And so ah I worked at Paramount all the way back in 2004, a little Brian history. I worked the graveyard shift of the Dr. Phil show transcribing B roll. So it was even lonelier than that.
00:02:08
Speaker
And so I was working three jobs at the time. And one of those other jobs was an audience page. And so on some nights when I'd be coming from that, I would use the Astro Burger to have dinner before I did the Paramount gig because there was nothing to eat.
00:02:25
Speaker
The lot was closed. Obviously there was no like craft service, nothing. Anyway, so I've been there many times and it's on my way home and I love their banana milkshake. I'm not going to say it's like the best banana milkshake in LA or anything like that. It's just one of the places that has a banana milkshake. Not every place does. So I was getting a banana milkshake there. And then because I i also was in a bad mood, I was like, and I'm going to get a slice of pie for later.
00:02:52
Speaker
I'm going to be a little piggy boy. So you're there just to set the scene? Yeah. Wait, did you walk there? You drove there. Oh, I was driving home. So I just drove home. Driving home. Yeah. Drove to. You're like already angry about something. Who knows? Who knows? You don't have to mention. Have been to Astroburger many times in my life, to be fair. I'm like, I'm going to get a milkshake and a piece of pie. Yes. What kind of pie did you get, by the way? Oh, they had pumpkin pie. Already? Yes. All right. All right.
00:03:20
Speaker
so okay they're not messing around it's like 100 degrees outside you're gonna eat pumpkin pie time pumpkin pie all right all right all right they
00:03:30
Speaker
They gave me the pie in the plastic container that they always give pie in. Yeah. And I think also this the traditional like clamshell, right? Yeah, but clear plastic, like the kind where it's just like they probably had it in their stock room for 30 years you know before they realized that plastic just runs off and into everything. If you heat it or whatever, like it's not in any modern plastic. And I was holding the container and I flashed on those Egg McMuffins. I was adamant.
00:04:00
Speaker
Adam, it came from McDonald's in in that scene, hostage scene. And I got to tell you, folks, no, they came from the Astroburger at the corner because he's the same containers. I'm sure of it. They also have egg sandwiches on the menu. And as you pointed out, those Egg McMuffins, if they were Egg McMuffins, look like dog shit. Well, where better to look shitty, get shitty looking Egg McMuffins from than from the fucking Greek diaphragm? Yeah.
00:04:28
Speaker
So, just a correction there. What time do they open, do you know? Early. I don't know what time they opened in 1994. I think right now they open it at nine. Really? Yeah, I think so. And now I gotta know. Now we're looking at it. I thought it was like ah early morning, seeing like cops get the coffee there. Seven a.m. Yeah, seven to eleven. Okay. There you have it.
00:04:52
Speaker
i See, I was skeptical it was an Egg McMuffin, but- Yeah, you nailed it. Not having had an Egg McMuffin in 20 years, i couldn't I didn't have any real conviction about whether or not it was.
Voyager's Eighth Episode and 1996 Predictions
00:05:07
Speaker
Amazing. Last week we concluded our look at past tense from Deep Space Nine, which foreshadowed the United States in 2024. Now we turn to Star Trek Voyager and its predictions of the year 1996. Kristen, do you remember 1996?
00:05:22
Speaker
Barely. I'm going to say the Macarena. Well, yes, we, yeah, the DNC, that had happened, the election had happened. yeah like I saw some clips of it, of the Macarena part recently. Yeah. A very strange moment. Making it like, yeah, um someone put the audio of Little John at the DNC over the Macarena dance from 1996. And he said that this person said they didn't even have to change the change of the video speed. It was all the same tempo. It was wild. yeah So I'm trying very hard to remember 1996 because I was in high school and it seems like I should know it pretty well, but I don't. So don't I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah, it's just a blur. Did I have a girlfriend at the time? Maybe that's what was happening as I was starting to get like my first high school girlfriend. So you were like, I don't care about anything else. That's right. You know what? It must have been that because this actually feels very familiar as the timeframe. So that was great. There's an election going on. Whatever.
00:06:31
Speaker
She and I ah broke up on decent terms. It all was all fine. It all worked out anyway. Well, um I hope she's listening. No, I'm sure she's not. And I hope she's not.
00:06:44
Speaker
Anyway, Future's End, part one, is the eighth episode of Voyager's third season. It premiered on UPN, the United Paramount Network, November 6th, 1996. Was that? No, it was the day after an Election Day because it was a Wednesday.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah. Bill Clinton had just been an elected, reelected president, defeating Bob Dole by, a as I recall, a pretty wide margin. The Monica Lewinsky scandal was still about two years away or a year and a half away. so Yeah. Written together by Brandon Braga and Joe Manosky, directed by David Livingston, Memory Alpha describes it. After encountering a Federation time ship from the 29th century, Voyager is sent back to 20th century Earth. What Memory Alpha doesn't tell you is that the time ship wants to destroy Voyager because wreckage from the ship is discovered in a temporal explosion in the 29th century that has destroyed Earth's solar system. Ah, but it turns out
00:07:37
Speaker
This is all a temporal causality loop. And Voyager's wreckage was only found because the timeship had tried to destroy it. And then both Voyager and the timeship are flung back to Earth's past, where Hippie becomes a tech mobile mogul after discovering the timeship's wreckage, scavenging the wreck and using the technology to innovate our digital age. The tech mogul is named Henry Starling, and he plans to use the timeship to leap into the future and get more technology to bring back to the late 20th century. And it's this plan of his that would set off the temporal causality loop.
00:08:06
Speaker
Can 24th century Voyager defeat a sadistic 20th century capitalist armed with 29th century technology?
Tech Mogul vs. Modern Figures: Ethics of Future Tech
00:08:14
Speaker
So Sarah Silverman's in this episode. she so She sure is. But I feel that we should hold a full discussion of Sarah Silverman, because I have some Sarah Silverman thoughts until part two, because she's in that more. And I have a lot to say ah from personal experiences and and things she said about her time in Star Trek, I think will be more interesting if we hold it. So that's a little tease.
00:08:39
Speaker
But this episode focuses on basically like a tech mogul, a figure, Bill Gates plus Steve Jobs. ah This is Henry Starling. there's the Like he's actually probably closer to like an Elon Musk and insofar as that he has absolutely no talent or ah expertise in any subject. He just happens to steal it all and get all the credit.
Portrayal of Homelessness in Voyager vs. Deep Space Nine
00:09:04
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, well, that's, well, this is what my point is. I'm leveraging my point of megalominaic lunatic. this This proves my point. Did Star Trek Voyager accurately predict Elon Musk in this Henry Arlen character? I kind of was going to do a rundown of things that did they get correct, but I lost the list of the other things that predicted.
00:09:23
Speaker
but Yeah, that's ah but at the time we're talking about peak Bill Gates. Steve Jobs was 95. Yes. But Steve Jobs was sort of in the wilderness still. He had not yet kind of come back to make Apple the place it was at the turn of the century. But that was what was in the air. But Star Trek has obviously dealt with time travel before many times and also grappling with the present day. Star Trek IV, I think, is still the most popular one.
00:09:50
Speaker
You know, as they go to 1986 and oh, no, we're killing the whales. We're going to run out of whales ah in the present. That's going to affect us in the future. We don't know how. But a lot of times, so time travel is kind of gimmicky. And I don't know, we've kind of just last week talked about how ah they go back, they go to our future, which is their past in 2024. And it's very serious. It's dealing with a very specific issue.
00:10:16
Speaker
the the unhoused, the homeless people, the problem of it. And that gets brought into this episode, but it's not what the episode's about. I just think it's very startling and in this rewatch, ah because I remember loving this episode as a teenager. I do remember that very clearly. I don't remember 1996. I remember liking this episode a lot and rewatch, taping it and rewatching it many times, both parts. But now it's watching past tense and future's end back to back is kind of alarming with how they treat the homeless people in this episode.
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. So I think this episode doesn't so much grapple with the time that it's in. Like, it's just an affectation more than anything. And that's, to me, just something I thought would be worth bringing up, because in one way, we can see how it contrasts poorly. But another way, which we'll talk about in a minute, kind of energize the show in a way I think it stuck to the show in a way that helped it going forward.
00:11:16
Speaker
ah Well, I'll try to remember the other predictions because I had a list and now I can't find them. Oh well. But um i back in this day and age, in 1996 was like the time when you really, if you did live in a big city or if you've traveled to one, you would see um Like unhoused people screaming about Armageddon or like some bizarro um Conspiracy theory now people just do that on the internet Yeah, but back then people really did were putting like signs up like the end is near or like there's some like new Like the lizard people are gonna kill us all and that kind of stuff
00:11:54
Speaker
It's just incredible that Robert Hewitt-Wolf was walking through Santa Monica and saw a bunch of homeless people and it hurt it like he was so emotionally raw and so affected by it. He's like, what can I do on as a TV writer here? And that a different group of TV writers saw what was going on in Santa Monica and said, we can do this as a joke.
00:12:14
Speaker
yeah Like literally a year later, it's very strange to want to see them back to back. But there are other 1996 things in here that we're going to talk about in ah in a second that they think they nailed. But anyway, some memory alpha notes. This episode achieved a Nielsen rating of 5.6 million homes and a 9% share.
00:12:34
Speaker
ah Voyager wound up averaging though 4.3 million viewers per episode or households per episode, which ranked just 128th, which was down from the first season when it averaged 5.1. But in both instances, Voyager was the highest rated show on UPN. Kristen, the week of November 3rd or whatever, 1996, so the beginning of sweeps,
00:12:59
Speaker
What do you think we're, I'll give you a chance to guess out of the top three shows, what we're in the top three. You don't have to get either like the exact number, right? But what it would have been in your mind, one of the top three shows of night of that week of 1996.
Top TV Shows of 1996
00:13:14
Speaker
Uh, friends incorrect. Not one of the top three shows. I'll give you one more guess.
00:13:20
Speaker
Is it is it like a scripted thing or is it? Oh, yeah. No, no, this is before. Yeah. It's ah the top three shows are scripted. The top three shows are on NBC and the top three shows are on the same night, Thursday night. Oh, so was the one of them then? Yeah. It was the number one show. OK. The number two show was Seinfeld. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The number three show you will not guess.
00:13:44
Speaker
Really? It was like mad about you or something. Suddenly Susan. Suddenly Susan! It was popular. My sister Winnie used to love that show. shu She was like from literally 10 years old. Friends was number four. Oh, so I was just outside. Yeah. Touched by an angel in the top 10 though. Number eight. Oh my God. Touched by an angel. Yeah.
00:14:10
Speaker
And all right, so I just wanted to put that in there. I thought that was a nice little time capsule. um that That took me back just looking at those shows. I was like, wow, this is an incredibly 1996 document right here. When did Frasier start becoming like the number one comedy? I forget. I can't remember.
00:14:31
Speaker
Frasier. Well, Frasier didn't go off the air until one of my last years. Shortly after I got into l LA, got to LA. So 2004, 2005. All right, some more. ah Brandon Braga said, quote, Voyager started its turnaround for us personally and creatively when we did the first very first two parter because we said to ourselves, let's start having fun. What's fun to write is to is fun to watch. And we've been toiling with the Maki storyline and we've been having these angst ridden characters dealing with being lost. It's not much fun to write anymore. And we felt that it it couldn't possibly be all that fun to watch.
00:15:05
Speaker
Let's let it all hang out and do something insane. What seemed more insane back then, but if you hear about it now, it sounds ridiculously antiquated. Voyager in 1996. And we conceived of big action sequences and big concepts with an epic villain. Things that we never would have thought of attempting on the next generation or even in the early days of Voyager. It's crazy, but we did it and we pulled it off. He said that in Star Trek Voyager Companion.
00:15:27
Speaker
Brandon Braga also remarked, it was a romp. It was intended to be. The fun of the episode is seeing the Voyager people in a society we all recognize in 1996. We wanted to see our folks walking along Venice Beach. We wanted to see our folks getting into trouble with contemporary people. ah He also said Henry Starling was our first great Voyager villain. It sounds like a pat on the back, but I think we created a great single individual villains and that was the first one played by Ed Begley Jr. He said that in Star Trek Voyager Companion which does not reside on my nightstand. Only the Deep Space Nine Companion gets to go to bed with me. Ed Begley reveled in his malevolent role
00:16:06
Speaker
particularly the fact that the character of Starling was totally unlike his own personality. Quote, Most people probably figured I'd play a good guy if I ever did a Star Trek episode, he reckoned. I liked the idea that I was playing someone completely unlike me who does things I could never live with were I to do them myself, and obviously quite pleased that the Star Trek producers were willing to cast me as Starling because he is, I guess, completely opposite to me. Tim Russ commented,
00:16:30
Speaker
I'd have to say that Future's End was the most fun episode to shoot. Those were two great weeks. We were outside the studio. We were in the city. We were running around all over the place, different locations. And that's just a blast because shooting inside gets to be kind of boring sometimes. so It was just a lot of fun to shoot that episode.
00:16:46
Speaker
Uh, although she shared no scenes with Kate Mulgrew, Sarah Silverman was admittedly a fan of hers. Quote, we'd work 16 hour days and they'd say, okay, you can leave. And I would say to watch her, they'd say, how can you not go home? But I feel like you have to take opportunities to see people when their work is really good. She's really an excellent professional actor.
00:17:05
Speaker
I agree, Sarah Silverman, but it was distressing Kristen to see her check for her mark on one of the scenes in this episode. I couldn't believe it. Had never recalled it ever happening in Voyager. And then I saw it and I was like, oh my gosh.
00:17:19
Speaker
I literally I just I'm shocked that you can like spot that but I have never done any acting or wanted to so I don't know anything about it.
Unexpected College Course Change
00:17:29
Speaker
Acting is difficult. I recognize it's difficult because like there have been times when I've had I've been forced into acting and I i didn't care for it because it was very hard.
00:17:42
Speaker
I thought, did I tell you this whole story about it? like Yes, you took the wrong class. yeah Yeah, I know. I signed up for the right class. They changed the class. They changed the whole thing. This is a change to the lore. So now you have to walk us through it again. So please repeat the story. I signed up for a history of theater class in college because I needed the humanities credit where the fuck it was.
00:18:08
Speaker
And it was like the only only class that fit my schedule. It was, um I think, Wednesdays at from seven to 10 p.m. And we get there to the first class. And I convinced my friend Juan, I hope he's listening, to also take it, because like it's gonna be really easy. I've had this teacher before. We're just gonna like watch Othello or something. And we get there, and then the teacher says,
00:18:36
Speaker
Um, so there was, so we didn't change the course catalog in time. This is actually not a history of theater class. It is an acting class. You can't do that. That is not a small change. meets Our first assignment was like, you got to pick a monologue and do it. I'm like, what the fuck? No. And like, there was all these parameters. Like, gotta be this long. It has to be blah, blah, blah. I'm like, Oh my God. I.
00:19:05
Speaker
was horrible. we We were just like, this is horrible. And then there's nothing we can do that we couldn't drop it and then taken the class. I would have like not graduated on time. Yeah. So I struggled through it. And I never want to do any acting ever again. That isn't like very, very easy. There's too much memorization. I was too difficult.
00:19:28
Speaker
There's a lot of memorization and on top of that, you do have to remember blocking and you have to be some you pretend to be somebody else and you have to listen to people if you wanna be really good at it. And you have to follow what the director's doing and you got all the slights and makeup and weird clothes on you. it It's a very unnatural thing. It's like make believe plus. And ah a lot of people I've discovered have very poor imaginations just in general reality. So the idea that they could then be yeah like most people could be actors doesn't make sense to me.
00:19:55
Speaker
I have a very robust imagination. Like this was art school. Like I that part was not an issue. It was the here's a movie scene. You you guys memorize it in like 10 minutes. You got to perform it and be real and don't do an impression of what if you've seen this yeah before. Don't just repeat the hardest part of that. Plus not laughing at people who are like yelling at me in character. I could not take it. I was just like dying. Well, that's what I'm saying about imagination. You have to imagine you're in that reality. It's a different kind. Yeah. yeah
00:20:29
Speaker
It's like a psychosis. You need to have some kind of psychosis. Great, great. That's perfect. Yep. That's why I couldn't do it. I was just like you. I was constantly stepping outside of it, which is how I operate in yeah life, which is why I'm such a basket case. But like, yes, I'm constantly pulling out of the reality. And so then you don't create a reality here. But like in the episode of 30 Rock where Liz Lemon's like, any dummy can act, Jack. And I'm like, no, it's not true.
00:20:58
Speaker
All right. I found my list of 1996
1996 Necessities: Clothes, Car, Money
00:21:01
Speaker
predictions. I guess I had a lot of fun putting you on the spot with Trek Mary or fuck Mary kills to play like a real game of it. Uh, but I'm going to say we're going to play that in a second. Okay. I just want to know, what do you think? Did they get these parts of 1996? Correct. That to to get by in this time, you need nice clothes, a fast car and lots of money. Yeah. to Tom Paris line. I think they got that right. Okay. Yes.
00:21:23
Speaker
Janeway remarking upon how Santa Monica does not exist in the 24th century. After the Hermosa quake of 2047, this entire beach sank under 200 meters of water. It became one of the world's largest coral reefs. So in about 23 years, the seaboard is toast, or Santa Monica's toast, down to Hermosa, down to Orange County. She's wiping out Orange County.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah, I have a lot to say about that, but also, like, the conditions to make a coral reef are pretty serious, right? Like, the reason there isn't one there now is because the surface is too strong. Yeah, also, there's a bunch of- And, I mean, probably other stuff. And the water's really cold, too.
00:22:04
Speaker
Also there's a bunch of oil refineries and there's like waste treatment, like all that stuff, which is rupture and pollute the whole, maybe that's what they're thinking. Like, well, that pollution will, something will be born out of it, but I don't think so. And then Tom Paris final line when they're walking along the beach, this was a great time in place. Was 1996 a great time in place? No. I will argue in it for this reason alone, the- Like the economy is starting to get a bit better.
00:22:32
Speaker
And I mean, in retrospect, we can look back and say it was a great time and place for certain people, as with all case all time human history. But it is worth pointing out that 1996 is definitely one of the data points in how we arrive at the matrix where the agent Smith says, we recreated the peak of human civilization for humans. to simulate and live in forever, which was the time was the late 90s. And that was a lot of like, you know, middle class that was like America thinking like doesn't get better than this. So at at the time people thought it was it doesn't get better than this. um And I would say looking back, I really didn't like when I was growing up and people were always looking back even then about how times were better in the past.
00:23:19
Speaker
So I always try to avoid that. And the only reason why I have any positive feelings is like, yeah, I was a kid. Everything was new and interesting. And that was why the 90s were great to me as like a child. But like, with yeah, in the 90s, I had sex for the first time and I kissed girls. Oh, my God, Brian. Yeah, this is like good time. Back in the night. Oh, my God.
00:23:42
Speaker
in the late 1900s. Oh, wow. I didn't even think about that. Wow. I'm so glad the kids get to roast us with that. No, I did not. You were born in the late 1900s. I did not have sex in the 1900s. Yeah.
00:23:59
Speaker
ah What was sex like in the 1900s? What was it like? By the way, there was still like a big time like scare about HIV and stuff. So like um condoms when we were growing up, like it was like you have to be really, really, really, really careful. So it was very much, you know, drummed into us.
00:24:23
Speaker
To the point now where I'm like people who have like unprotected sex with like strangers, I'm like, what are you doing? Are you not? Oh, ah yeah, it's completely different. And it's like, but even today, it's like, you know, there are still STDs yet you can get that can cause a lot of damage. There's actually more. Yeah, there's more because yes, so there's more of them now. Yeah. So I remember herpes being a much bigger deal.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But wrap it up, by the way, you can still get herpes gonorrhea. Yeah. Syphilis and m pox, even if you do use a condom. So that's right. That's right. Get yourself tested. Get some.
00:25:05
Speaker
get some preventative measures or whatever you can. I'm probably saying it wrong.
Societal Changes Since the 1990s
00:25:09
Speaker
There's a prep for HIV and there's another one for, I believe, gonorrhea and syphilis. And there's stuff for monkey pox. You can get the... It's m pox now, Brian. Okay. Well, that sounds close to like what Deep Space Nine was called, or like the sister station, m pox noir. See, when you said that, that's why I can't do that. My brain is not... I think they changed it to like...
00:25:32
Speaker
Because of the stigma of it coming from a monkey. Yeah. Because that's not the case right now. I also find it hard to believe that, ah you know, Tuvok complains about the sun. I'm not sure if the ozone had been declared patched by 1996. Maybe not. But it was on the way. I'm not sure. I don't remember. i That was getting close. That had to be. Yes, we had we. This is the thing that.
00:25:55
Speaker
why I have in my 30s and 40s have not been able to accept that we're not going to do anything about climate change is like, well, we did when in my lifetime, we're like, oh, shit, there's a giant hole in the atmosphere. There's a hole in the ozone lake and everyone's like, oh, no, how do we fix it? And I'm like, you have to ban chlorofluorocarbons. Everyone's like, OK, we'll do it. And then we did. And then it patched itself or whatever.
00:26:20
Speaker
And now we're saying like because we've achieved ma like peak money, no more money can be made. We now have to start cracking the things we built. to get where we are so that we can now monetize the rot that we create. but Then and we need to go back. We need to bring chloroform back. That will bring we need to bring those elements back to make more money. So it's just it's still bad to use aerosol stuff, though, if you if you can avoid it, like in beauty products and some things you kind of need them. But I still find it hard to believe that standing on Santa Monica Beach in 1996 is more damaging than
00:26:59
Speaker
Vulcan, which is a very hot planet. Yeah. ah So anyway, that was just funny to me. All right. Great scenes. OK, I have like three really, really good ones. The rest, like I talk about and other things, but I'm just going to skip right on to Tuvok and the doo rag.
00:27:20
Speaker
Tuvok, they want to blend in. And obviously he's a Vulcan, so he can't show his ears, right? Yep. And so they put him in a do-rag. And so that he's walking around the beach. And Kate Mulgrew is in a ladies' ah lady sportswear.
00:27:43
Speaker
um What? She's in a white business. So sportswear Brian in the 90s was what ah exactly what she's wearing. It's not formal wear. It's not work wear necessarily. But it's like a lady sportswear that she got sportswear said that she got at Macy's. Do I have to pay you because you just took me to school? Is that How much for this unit? Yeah, right. I changed the course catalog. That's right. I wasn't expecting that. This was going to be a yes. It was supposed to be a Star Trek podcast. But now it's about lady sportswear. Yeah. So that's like absolutely the kind of thing that they would sell at Macy's in the lady sportswear department. And sportswear and um athletic wear is not the same thing. She looked terrific. Yeah, she looked great. A little overdressed for the beach, but
00:28:34
Speaker
Then they're like, I don't know, what are we going to do with the black guy?
00:28:40
Speaker
Well, I'm going to do rack obviously.
00:28:47
Speaker
It's ah now again, I watched this many times for this, but also i at the time as a child watching it. And when you first see all four of them, you do laugh in 1996. So great. You were like, wow. And it to me, what stuck out is like Janeway and Chakotay are like, OK, that makes sense. But the two block thing is such a punch line. It is like.
00:29:14
Speaker
ah just like ah because because like well Tom Paris is our resident expert on 20th century Earth. And I had Tom Parris as well. Tom Parris is not war. they they so He and Tuvok stand out for totally different reasons. yeah Tom Parris did not evoke 1996 to me. No, it was like 1986 maybe. Yeah, he just, but like Parris just misremembered a bit. Yeah, and and that comes up later yeah too. Yes. But yeah, he just, he kind of sort of remembers it. The Tuvok thing- I don't know. yeah when
00:29:48
Speaker
When, a when did ah electricity in homes become a thing? I don't know, like 1870? Like that's not really, like. There was almost like a, all right, two box. You're like 10 years too early. Yeah. But two box is like a do rack. Of course. Yes. Of course. Did Abraham Lincoln fly on a plane? yeah Probably. i was That's the exact level that they're going for. It's kind of hard to know because they,
00:30:16
Speaker
So I agreed with you that is also a great scene because I like to again have like dramatic things something thematic or emotional going on but ah this is like an outside production thing you could feel the energy of the show shift in the scene you could tell the directing wise they were having a lot of fun and like they all seemed the cast seemed very relaxed and it's like wow we get to like do something real in the real world and it like that energy just kind of jumps off at you of like something is different here and they all play their parts and the fact that Tuvok is even remarking like we could have just been in our Starfleet uniforms and no one would have noticed it's kind of playing into this it's like nerds going outside and touching grass for the first time it's kind of the feeling with Tuvok and and Paris so it kind of like works in a goofy way for the story but also I think it just kind of works for the show
00:31:07
Speaker
I'm with you, but I gotta tell you, this is the other, this is the Fuck Mary Kill I'm voicing on you. Because they gave Jokote the George Clooney haircut. They did. Which was also great. Oh no, wait, wait. At 19? Yeah, 96. ER was the number one show. He had the Caesar cut then? I don't know. I feel like this haircut's not that bad.
00:31:28
Speaker
Well, which are you talking, which which jordan I'm talking about the Caesar cut. I'm talking about this. OK, it didn't strike me as as much of the Caesar cut. So that it was still a very 90s. Sure. They gave him. All right. So like Mary, fuck Mary kill Tom Paris in 1996 attire. Chakotay in 1996 attire or Tuvok in 1996. I feel like the Tuvok one is like borderline offensive. So I'm going to kill that one. It is. a No, it is a offensive. OK, OK.
00:31:59
Speaker
i entered All the way and put them in Lakers here.
00:32:05
Speaker
Who's this magic Johnson? Or like that or Tom Paris doesn't really understand who what time it is. So it's like a clipper. Yes, that would have all or like is Kobe Bryant or whatever. Oh, that would have been good. Yeah.
00:32:21
Speaker
um Yeah, like, uh, just a different player who's like, I mean, I, I, they barely get a pass. Oh, they don't get a pass, but like and be like, well, he needs to cover his ears. So I thought the do right. Yeah. I thought the do rag was somewhat defensible, but the rest of it of dressing him like the rest of the gang member is like, but no, I mean, uh,
00:32:49
Speaker
It's the weirdest fucking outfit. Oh my God. I guess this is weird. Um, so I guess, yeah, so he gets killed. Um, I guess Jokote is probably the most like normal nineties ones. I guess I marry that and then fuck the Tom Paris outfit. It is a funny outfit though. Yeah. It's a, it's a weird outfit. No, that's exactly what I had too. Uh,
Fashion and Characters' Actions in 1996
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, if I was throwing Janeway into the mix and we took Tuvok out of it because it's so offensive, you know, I would I would I couldn't decide between fuck or marry Janeway in that situation. I don't know. Yeah. and It's a real real ah Sophie's choice. Yeah. All right. You had two more great scenes. Let's see. OK, yeah. Captain Braxton's whole rant and like.
00:33:38
Speaker
doing the Charlie Kelly thing of being like, and then this and the and the writing on the wall in chalk of like how this paradox came to pass, but it actually makes sense. Pepe Silva. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, this is, this guy is going for it. I'm sorry to tip my hand a little bit, but like, I enjoyed that whole scene. And then a fucking l LAPD shows up. I mean, or I don't know, Santa Monica PD, whatever. Yeah, it would be Santa Monica PD. Um, um, and,
00:34:07
Speaker
like, Janeway and Shikote like, I don't know, he sounds crazy to me. And then they like literally chase, like have the police chase him because they won't like voucher him. I couldn't because of very, very accurate.
00:34:22
Speaker
I still couldn't get on board with that being a great scene because of how Janeway and Chakotay treat him. Like I could not get past it after we just watched how Sisko Bashir and Dax treat a similar person and how they talked about them and then the scene. Well, to be fair, this guy did try to kill them.
00:34:41
Speaker
That is an excellent point. However, that I want to be like, let me get you some help. By the end of the conversation, they understand he had even said, I figured out what actually was going on. So it was kind of a misunderstanding. Chakotay, which I'll bring up later, initially when he was trying to kill them, was like, well, hold on. Maybe he's got a point. You know what I mean? like how How much of a vendetta is this? And I just think it seems that Janeway does not share Cisco and Bashir sensibilities now or sensitivities. Yeah, like I'm so concerned. Oh, good. The police.
00:35:18
Speaker
She literally makes the face of like, I don't know what's happening. now is a little bit I mean, it seems like you're going to need Braxton for the time ship. And instead she goes, we'll worry about him later. Yeah. And back then ah the plea well today and back then.
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, they there was like peak police brutality. There is no ticking clock on this. They are in the past. Like they don't know. You know, I mean, like they don't know what's going on. He gives them a ticking clock in a sense, but they don't know if that the launch is imminent or anything like that. You know what I mean? Like so the urgency isn't such where they have to make compromises. That's just how they are. That's just revealing their character. Whatever. So bizarre. Anyway, I but for the reasons you probably put as a great scene, I'm i'm joining you on the I'm tipping my hand as well for a later grade, so. And your last one. um Oh, sorry, I wanted to, um part of that is when um ah Captain Braxton calls the the cop a quasi-cardass totalitarian.
Captain Braxton's Eccentric Character
00:36:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, well that's a great line. Just fucking amazing, oh my God. And then my last one is Neelix and Kiss are given soap opera duty.
00:36:34
Speaker
I mean, there are a lot of great scenes in this episode, but I'm talking about them in other areas, so I'm trying not to double-dip too much. Well, the only other one I had, because I join you when they first get to Santa Monica Pier for all the reasons I said, but then the other one I had was when Paris is trying to calm down Rainn Robinson as they make their escape in her van. It's kind of not a terribly important scene. like we don't It doesn't advance the story forward, but it's all very character-based. It was like a way to bond all three of them.
00:37:01
Speaker
And I really like Sarah Silverman's vulnerability in it. And I actually really like Robert Duncan McNeil and Tim Russ's performances. It's like very real. It's kind of fun with her like, oh, I'm going to make a scene. and But I also thought that the two future people were kind of being very human and very modern. And I don't know. I thought it was a great scene. It's it's an emotional scene. But I'm with you. There are a lot of good scenes in this episode. a lot The episode is very fun. It's very high concept.
00:37:29
Speaker
That seems very good also because they're like shooting somebody, you know, like it ah in a van and it like doesn't look super chintzy. Like I doesn't even. They're on Melrose. Yeah. Like they actually shot it. They're not like on a rear projection screen. Yeah. Yeah. So it works. And it's at night. Like how often do we get exterior night scenes? So it's fun. All right. Best trek tropes.
00:37:52
Speaker
Tuvok is not impressed with Captain Janeway's tennis serve in the big, in the cold open as like, well, you'd probably do better if you, you know, yeah actually hit the ball where you're supposed to, but in Tuvok speak.
00:38:07
Speaker
That beat is why this episode for me is like, it's missing something. It's kind of like the flaw of Wager. That scene is just there as filler. You know what I mean? There's nothing emotional. It's not attached to anything. And that is just like an emptiness that pervades Voyager through its whole run. And it's kind of like a late TNG issue where characters will just be doing something and then get interrupted and have to do the story. And older Trek, it would connect in some way. In better episodes, even in Voyager, it connects. And I don't know. But I think that's funny. So your best Trek trope is you like that Chakotay being unimpressed with Janeway. Oh, Tuvok being unimpressed with something Janeway is.
00:38:55
Speaker
Like he's being logical about it like because she she's horrible at it. Yeah. And she's like, I'm working on my tennis serve. He's like, um, yeah. Right. Maybe you would do better if you were better. is but Yeah. He tried hitting the ball. OK, so when anyone from Starfleet sees an unhoused person, they're like, how did this happen?
00:39:18
Speaker
I mean, nus and in this case, not enough to help them, but it's like, and I like those nice visions of the future of like, we don't have unhoused people in the future. right so And um LA's transit system being dragged by everyone. They're like, we're in Santa Monica, I gotta get it to the Griffith Observatory, how are we gonna do that? The transit system here is notoriously bad.
00:39:46
Speaker
And so they literally have to steal a car to get there. Yes. I'm going to say that this is how bad LA's public transit system is. It has gotten worse back then. Well, what I'm saying is I'm going to say I'm going to throw out a number. You can challenge me there. Some wild number. It's 500 times better than it was in 1996. Yeah.
00:40:12
Speaker
It is still bad. You cannot go from Santa Monica to the Griffith Observatory. Yeah, you could, but you'd have to go. You could now take a subway from Santa Monica all the way to Union Station. Get off at Western. No, you can't go from... I thought it goes to... Oh, you mean you were going to take the red line? I was going to say you can go to Union Station and take a bus.
00:40:38
Speaker
Well, they have the Western stop and the does the train to Santa Monica not go subterranean at some point. It does. OK, I thought I just assumed they connected Western. and Actually, I don't know. I don't have to hold on. Hold on. You can barely get there now, though, and it's getting better all the time. You couldn't get there just on a train. You need to you need to transfer.
00:41:01
Speaker
I'm glad that this is a best trek trope for no reason. We got to put it somewhere. LA's public transit system being dragged is great. Yeah. A few LA Metro system maps. Okay. I'll wait for you. You can come back with yours. I'm going to just list mine. Henry Starling is a great villain. You can see where he's coming from and he's colorful enough to not just be mustache twirling. He's got Kind of a point of view, you could kind of see he's either a baby libertarian or like a hippie who suddenly has this you know moment where he can steal some technology and he's smart enough to do something with it. He's kind of not really interesting, but like kind of like, I don't know, it's a good performance, I think that elevates it. um Following protocols to a fault, in this case, Chakotay, like I said, tells Janeway that maybe they should let Braxton destroy Voyager.
00:41:46
Speaker
Since this is a time ship from the Federation, right the warp signature, it checks out. This is, of oh, this is like orders. Orders say we're going to be involved in destroying Earth. Maybe we should let them wipe us out. yeah I thought that was a fun Trek Trope taking the rules too far. Tuvok being pretty good at security, or at least with this phaser. Like, I'm sure Worf would have been just as capable, but sometimes, you know, they they have to make the security officers not as good as they can be. But Tuvok, he's really good. We have to admit, he's pretty good there.
00:42:16
Speaker
um I'm putting us, we put this with Major Kira hiding her Bajoran ridges with the bandage last week. I'm putting the do-rag as a best Trek trope. Because we really are objecting to the rest of the costume, I thought. But to me, the do-rag, it's like, I like when Trek just finds a way to- The whole costume is bad, but the do-rag is what really, you know, like, I think the cherry on top, if you will.
00:42:42
Speaker
That yes, but I think I just isolated from the rest. The do rag is fine. It is. It is a normal thing. It is unquestionably bret racially tinged, unquestionably because Tuvok is black. He gets the do rag. There's no question. I'm still putting as a best trick joke because if they're trying to make a black man fit in to Los Angeles 1996, I suppose to cover his ears, it makes more sense than like a ski cap or a baseball cap, I suppose. yeah But it potentially creates other dramatic interests like he would be profiled. You know what I mean? Like in the cops would probably harass him. Yeah, especially walking around with this well-dressed white lady. Exactly. so
00:43:30
Speaker
I think because we're having such a strong reaction to it in a way that's like, that's just, you know, it's because I'm still putting his best Trek trope. And then the last one I had is Janeway being a quick study with the keyboard.
Janeway's Adaptability and Intelligence
00:43:42
Speaker
Just so kind of just that Janeway is a quick learner. She's very smart. That's the one thing that has always made her stand out from the other Star Trek captains. like She's kind of more of a, like like the way Picard's more of an archeologist in some ways or a diplomat. She's much more of like a pure lab scientist kind of thing. And I think the idea that she's like, I'm a quick study. And she learns how to use the computer keyboard. I'm like, yeah, Janeway is always giving a student top of the class energy. Like she prides herself on getting good at stuff real fast. So I appreciated that. So the the expo line that goes to Santa Monica does not go connect to the purple line.
00:44:17
Speaker
Got it. And you're thinking of the Purple Line extension, which is not yet completed. So you would need to trance if you were going to take the train. You didn't transfer downtown and then probably take a bus or you could get back on the red line.
00:44:35
Speaker
and go as far as what, like from like the Western and Hollywood or whatever. You could take Western, yeah, and Hollywood and get it. And then it it's still quite a hike. It's still quite, yep. You'd either spend all day walking or you'd have to take a bus.
00:44:53
Speaker
But yeah, in any case, Henry Starlin is completing his mission and you're screwed. so So this would take too long. It took you five hours to navigate L.A.'s transit system. By the way, that was not built at the time. Correct. That this takes place. That's right. We were saying best case. Yeah. Even now, it's still yeah's that they couldn't do it today. Today. you would so The traffic's even worse, though, so I don't even know like they could steal the car. Probably no problem. But they still would take a long time to get from Santa Monica to Griffith Park. Forget it. All right. Where's Trek trucks forever? Yeah. Oh, I haven't even finished. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Braxton calling ah the drugs they gave him in the mental health facility, the primitive pharmaceuticals. I do love it when they talk about the primitive medicine. of Yes. Of 20th and 21st century.
00:45:42
Speaker
earth. And also this I didn't know where else to put this but a Begley juniors picture with Richard Nixon is on the desk so you know for sure he's really evil and he also has a train set on his on his desk because he's a weird megalomaniacal train guy. Yeah. All right. Where's Trek Troops?
00:46:07
Speaker
Los Angeles sinking in 2047 and becoming a coral reef. It doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah. I just hate it for story purposes. And obviously that is not the case. Cause then we see Los Angeles and Picard anyway, whatever. Um, Balana can't fix a goddamn thing. So like this little problem with a transporter buffer, I feel like Scotty could have fixed that in like five minutes. Well, it's going to be a couple days at least.
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah, I had this as worst trek trip as well. The transporter is knocked out just enough. Like we can do it, but we have to get really close. I'm like, why not just use a shuttle's transporter? And, but also it's like, I get it. You want to have, they were working backwards from how do we get Voyager low to the city where everyone can see it and break the temporal prime directive and all that shit. I understand that. I just think that they did not.
00:46:58
Speaker
They had to break things to make that happen. And we are pointing out that the transporter thing makes Milana seem like an idiot. And it kind of breaks the tech reality that we're in. Like, yeah, I don't because I don't actually think she's incompetent. But like, it's like, she can't fix it at all. Yeah. And she's not even close. Like, she's no closer to fixing it when she discovered the problem.
00:47:21
Speaker
as she is later when we get a status of it's still broken. Did they tie now I'm blanking and you think I didn't remember that because I've seen the episode so many times maybe it's so stupid my brain just buzzed out. Did she tie the tech issues to the fact that Braxton was trying to disintegrate the ship or that they traveled back in time and like the the time distortion or that the anomaly is what screwed up their systems. Because it seems to me it's like, well, you know, we were losing molecular cohesion for a minute there, so we actually have to rebuild some shit. Like, that would make a lot more sense to me. But they never, like, explicitly say that. so Yeah, I don't remember. Yeah. it's Anyway, any others? I have two more. um So what's his name? Oh, Starling, what's his name? Starling, yeah, Starling.
00:48:10
Speaker
Starling seems to be shocked that somebody at JPL wouldn't be able to tell a Caltech professor something about space stuff when Caltech is managed, or JPL is managed by Caltech. Like, oh yeah, you think the word spread? Yeah. You think that the fellows down at JPL were just going to keep this one under their hat? Yep. Instead of run next door and be like, guess what?
00:48:40
Speaker
Yep. And in 1996, everyone would have seen them in space. It wouldn't have been a surprise. I also don't like that the computer age was only because of time travel. Hmm. I don't care for that. It makes it seem like it may also doesn't make any sense. It's not about human progress, then it's just it doesn't make any sense, though. No, you're right. I'm with you. I think that's a good that's a good thing. So that's kind of like Yeah, that's kind of like bad news time travel. Oh, yeah. Well, um yeah, we never would have had this if it weren't for the future alien crash landing and giving us all that this tech. No, not really.
00:49:19
Speaker
I like it. The go with it time paradox it creates because they could have found a lane where it's like Starling innovated this very specific thing, which doesn't like tie into actual human history. Like, oh, the computer chips are faster or whatever. Like something very niche instead of like the whole thing was yeah because of no, that's dumb.
00:49:41
Speaker
Yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. The space race, NASA and all that stuff that had nothing to do with it is because this guy found a crash ship in 1967. Yeah. Uh, this is more of a genre trope, but stealing a truck.
00:49:55
Speaker
Paris has two bucks, steal one. Like a brand new giant pickup truck. And they do it during a test drive? Yeah. So the way I envision is Paris is driving, because we learned in the 37s he can drive cars. The dealer rep is sitting in the passenger seat, two bucks in the back, and he leans over and neck pinches the guy. And then they leave him sitting somewhere. That's what it suggested to me. Yeah.
00:50:19
Speaker
And I don't know, I guess I'm like, how many cars did Captain America steal in the movies? Madam Web does it, too. It's always just this weird thing that happens in genre where it's like, just steal a car. It's super easy. Yeah. And even the fact that two calls out, we could have gotten a cab. I mean, like this. like But no, we had to do the car because they needed to have the the integrated advertising, the product placement for the truck, this ridiculous truck they did not need.
00:50:48
Speaker
And they needed something that could be vaporized compact sedan and dan the huge truck, which would have been definitely one of the car commercials shown during the break. And then they also needed an object that Starlings a security guy could vaporize with the the super duper 29th century phaser. So knowing again, it's like the transporter thing, like knowing what they're working
Implausibility of 1996 Tech vs. Voyager
00:51:10
Speaker
backwards from. It's like, OK. And by the way, Tom Paris does not look like a reliable person. Like if he showed up in that If the two of them show up to a car dealer, it's not like a weekday. You'd be like, I want to test drive this $40,000 truck or whatever. I mean, cars cost less than. No, it's an expensive truck. Yeah. And they're like, okay. They usually, I mean, even today they make you leave your
00:51:36
Speaker
driver's license at the dealership. Right. They have no idea. They might have had ID. They might have fabricated someone. Who knows? Yeah. And then where's Trek Troop? Last one for me. Starling overpowering Voyager to steal their data and block the transporter beam. Yeah. I was like.
00:51:51
Speaker
No. One or the other. One or the other makes some sense. 1996 dial-up internet? How was he doing that? I mean, Voyager could... His office building's in downtown Los Angeles. In 1996, you could have tripped and fell and knocked out all the electricity in downtown Los Angeles. It was a dilapidated area of the city, and he's got this office tower there. They could have EMP'd that shit. They could have done some...
00:52:19
Speaker
So just like very sweaty and it just like whatever. He's got 29th century tech helping him. He doesn't know how to use it as well as they know how to use their tech. That's the whole point. So he's like, well, it looks like you're at the I hold all the cards. You're not you're not very like you don't know about this advanced tech that I stole. Like that doesn't I don't know. That's just it seems stupid. And they just have all this information about the ship. Like who cares?
00:52:48
Speaker
Yeah, so just a lot of- What does that give anybody? Yeah. Anymore? No. All right. Most cosplayable character or moment? I'm going to have to say ah Captain Braxton. Which version? Just being the lunatic, ah running around saying the end is near, but like people you all the people stole my pencils. I mean, I wouldn't say it's like fun to cosplay an unhoused person.
00:53:17
Speaker
But I would say in terms of being a caricature, sure. You're not going with Tuvok? No.
00:53:30
Speaker
Uh, I'm just going to pick Janeway's white sports. Okay. Men or women. That's pretty sharp costume to cosplay. That would be fun. Um, I, one of these days I want us to find a moment to cosplay. Cause I like sometimes when you see cosplayers do like a specific scene or some idea, but we haven't landed on one. yeah We've only had a couple of been doing this a couple of times. So I think eventually we'll find one.
00:53:56
Speaker
Uh, now it's time for the line, Mr. Jones. Great lines. Henry Starling, do you think E.T. likes Chateau Cure? But that was a good line. then He's a nice asshole. It's a good line. Go home, lose some sleep over this. You know, I like that typical asshole business guy talk. Ensign Kaplan, shall I respond, sir? Kim, absolutely not. yeah Rain sends in the message. That was great. Braxton, Voyager, fools. I just think that's a great thing to to say to the crew of Voyager. Like, that's a great.
00:54:31
Speaker
Wait, can you imagine Starfleet Command, the people having to review all the logs from when they're lost? And the Delta Quadrant? How much like Starfleet Intelligence, Starfleet Command, and like, fuck! yeah What did you do?
00:54:47
Speaker
um Braxton, again, you stay where you are! Quasi-Cordessian Totalitarian! He has so many great lines just in those like few scenes. He is. Yeah, I'm with you. You want to jump in with any great lines? Yeah, many more. Janeway is like, we don't want to a a ah alarm the natives.
00:55:10
Speaker
um And then Tom's like talking to you like, come on, take your shirt off. And Steve is like, and risk dermal dysplasia?
00:55:23
Speaker
And then Jamie's like, ah when she sees the unhoused fella, she says, that pushcart seems to hold all his blood. king hello like jane way understanding because it's such a foreign idea to her yeah it's called a shopping cart yes yeah what is this almost almost data like he would appear to live out of doors yeah yes appears to be living on the street so is that and for for this this push cart
00:55:58
Speaker
um my next To be clear, we're laughing at the characters who don't understand and are acting like it's this weird thing, not people in this situation. yeah And the writers making the very clear choice to make Jade Wei sound as out of fucking touch as possible. yeah she Sounds like a suburban woman who like comes to the city one time and she's like, and then like hears about human trafficking and thinks she's trying to traffic her. She's dropping constant hints unknowingly. That's how they would do it today. That Janeway would get picked up by or like drop accidental. She seems like a empty, like a piece of trash next to her car goes, it's a sign I'm being trafficked. Yeah.
00:56:40
Speaker
By the way, if you are a white suburban woman, I'm just gonna let you know no one is trying to traffic you. Just just putting that out there. yeah Okay, the next one's pretty long, but it's the whole conversation between Rain and Tom Paris. The UFO, what is it? It's a Soviet spy satellite, part of a massive KGB operation. We're trying to stop it.
00:57:06
Speaker
Soviet, the USSR broke up five years ago. The KGB doesn't even exist anymore. That's what they'd like you to think. Tom Paris got there just a little bit too late for his knowledge. Well, that lines up with what he's wearing. Yeah. looks He's like, yeah, you guys look great. they like yeah He looks like he just watched Better Off Dead. And that's his his recollection with America was like.
00:57:34
Speaker
Yeah, I had a previous beat between them, Paris. I majored in astrophysics. Where? Starfleet Academy. Never heard of it. I like that. He's like, it's so' good he's cool. Rain. I do the planetarium show Tuesday night, so ah you guys should come by. Check it out. Bring your friends. The best stars in Hollywood are right above us.
00:57:54
Speaker
Um, I don't buy the turn where she suddenly attracted to Tom Paris. I would think that discovering aliens and then two dopes coming in and like messing with your stuff is, yeah is enough to be like, uh, whatever, however they look, whatever. So I didn't buy the turn, but I liked the delivery of that line. I also didn't like that Paris didn't just yes and her, but I guess they're kind of, maybe I should put it as a worst trick trope, like honest to a fault.
00:58:20
Speaker
I'm like, what was the harm in just saying yes? I know. And then leaving. And that's it. You and Tuvok was like, shit, man. You do that. Like, the look in his face is like, shit. Yeah, it's it's weird. No, but I guess they're making. Yeah, that's that's just because it's Tom Paris. That's right. Rain, who are you people? What is that thing in your pants? Yeah.
00:58:46
Speaker
Neelix, oh, I can't wait to see if Blaine's twin brother is the father of Jessica's baby. Now, that is not the great line. The great line is that Harry Kim, Garrett Wong, is pointing it so straight that Neelix is delivering a line that if you're just looking at the situation, being like, who gives a shit? yeah That's not what I'm having you do. But Neelix is like, I can't wait to see if this fake story turns out in this dramatic way. And Kim smiles and says, good work. Keep me informed and don't get too swept away.
00:59:19
Speaker
yeah They literally haven't done anything except tell you that they are addicted to television. Yeah, they become more instantly addicted to television. There's a lot of good stuff on soap operas in 1996, so I understand. And then the soap opera dialogue we then hear after he leaves. All know, Sharon, he's my brother. How can I face him knowing that our son is his son? All you need to know, Jack, is that I love you.
00:59:46
Speaker
Which is not even good soap opera dialogue for the time, but it's still silly and all put in there. Janeway, a line that has resonated with me all these years. Time travel. I got to say it in her voice. Time travel. Ever since my first day in the job as a Starfleet captain, I swore I'd never let myself get caught in one of these godforsaken paradoxes. The future is the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache.
01:00:09
Speaker
Good job. I did like when Jane way would confront trek tropes and kind of like hand wave them mainly because cable grew so good at hand waving stuff. Remember when Starling starts monologuing after he gets the files that you just like turn it off. I want to hear this. Yeah. No, I love that part actually.
01:00:26
Speaker
like Starling. Yap, yap, yap, yap, yap, yap. And Starling's last, the last green line I have is Starling's line. They're trying to teleport the ship. I really love that they were saying teleport because that's how everyone, even watching so casual Star Trek viewers say teleport. I thought that was fun. Would this be a fun, hollow novel to play out? I think some parts, yes.
01:00:50
Speaker
I'm saying yes because if I could go to griff the Griffith Observatory yeah under those exact conditions with no traffic and not a single person there in front of it. i have We hike up to Griffith Park Observatory pretty regularly. I do complain because it's gotten harder for me to do the hike as I've gotten older and less athletic. But there are so many people everywhere, outside, inside, spilling over weekdays, weekends. I've actually never been. And most of the reason is because they're like, it's really hard to park up here. So very hard to do it. I'm like, I'm just not going to go. I might have liked to deal with L.A. traffic in 1996 versus now, although I think the air quality was still not where it was like turn of the century. Yeah. And now it's kind of gotten backslidden bad again. So I don't know if I know it's honestly not nearly as bad as it
01:01:42
Speaker
was in the 70s and even the 90s like the air quality here now is much better than it was. We just have occasional issues. And then I guess it would have been fun me being wistful about the past a little bit. I did spend a lot of time when I first moved moved to LA. I lived on the west side. I loved it. I spent a lot of time in Santa Monica. There's a There's a green, the green bar there, big Dean's, I think it's called. I can't, I'm blanking. I wrote down, I forgot, but like, I, you can see it in the boardwalk. It's like the, on the very end of that row of buildings when the roller skater goes by, uh, I spent a lot of time there. Uh, when I, the first time I visited LA, like before I moved here, I went to Santa Monica Pier and I stood, I stared at that carousel building that they're standing. in front of where they first get there. And I'm like, this is where they stood. But I don't know, I guess I would enjoy that part of it, the beach. I love going to the beach. She doesn't love going to the beach, even though Santa Monica Beach is like one of the filthiest beaches in human history. Yeah, that one is not great. That's not a good idea. You got to go to a little further north or south. But yeah, dealing with Santa Monica Police and the unhoused. I mean, I used to go to school in Santa Monica. I lived in West L.A. So it
01:02:58
Speaker
it It doesn't have a charm for me because of that, and it is a pain to have to deal with that kind of stuff. And I would just think this would not be a fun, hollow novel to play through because you have to wind up in downtown Los Angeles.
01:03:10
Speaker
which even to this day sucks. So it's not as bad. It's still not great. I did go. I went to a matinee of Clue like the they made it a play at the Amundsen and it was the same day that the men's Olympic gold medal game was. And so they actually had like a public viewing party out there for the basketball. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. And they had like they were having it all day, so they'd break dancing and they had like ah Yeah, all kinds of stuff. They had a DJ that, you know, you could buy food and drink and everything. It was pretty cool. Sparsely attended because it was extremely hot. Yes. That has also changed in the time I've lived in Illinois. Yeah. It never used to be this hot, but it's it's outrageous. um how Are you looking forward to the Olympics in four years? Yeah, I am, but I know a lot of people are not.
01:04:02
Speaker
I'm on the fence cause there's a part of me like, am I still going to be living in Los Angeles in 2028? I'm not sure. yeah I haven't thought about it. Like it never occurred to me that I wouldn't, but given the state of the industry right now where it's self-immolating, I don't know. That's an interesting question. A lot can change positive or negatively in four years though. All right. The Anton Caridian award for best performance. Is there any question that it said big league junior or do you think it's too cartoonish for you?
01:04:32
Speaker
Um, yeah, I mean, I'm fine giving it to him. I don't have like a really strong feeling about it. He's a little, little mustache twirly. He does do that. There's something. Hmm.
01:04:47
Speaker
like chair to this is great though the picture yeah I agree with you. He is yeah especially towards the end there. He gets a little too mustache twirly and then he basically is. I mean, yes, you you got it right. But I've never understood how he pronounces the word anything, anything.
01:05:04
Speaker
Like, I don't know what accent that it that is. yeah He's done it in everything he's ever been in, and I didn't get it. But anyway, all that, I'm not, it's not a ding. I'm just like, i'm i I want to know the secret of anything. Where does that come from? But anyway, I still think it's a i still think it's a presence. Like, it's an energy, like what this episode has in bunches is a lot of energy. And it has like different things that we're used to seeing in Star Trek that I really appreciated, especially for Voyager.
01:05:33
Speaker
So then the Shatner. Alan G. Royal is Captain Braxton. Yeah, I mean, there's no question. His big scene is all exposition, but I think we agree it only works because of his performance. Yeah. All right. Shoot to thrill. Most exciting image or sequence? um The Tuvok, Tom Paris, and Raine Chase.
01:05:56
Speaker
scene when they're at the Griffith Observatory and they have to get in her van and drive off while the guy's shooting at him. I can't believe he didn't shoot at them one more time because he had a clear shot. I mean, if you had more money, you would have put like a school, like a school trip. Oh, you think that guy would be like, oh, I can't shoot the little kids? Yes. He'd be like, fuck them kids. No, he because then why didn't he just open fire when he had a clear shot? So I don't know. It's just silly season. But I put the camcorder shot of Voyager flying over Los Angeles from someone's barbecue.
01:06:34
Speaker
I thought that was amazing. It's like one of the coolest shots in Voyager history. And, you know, if you grew up, with that i' you tell us everyone has a camera. That's right. That's right. But I mean, in the 90s, folks, you were seeing stuff in it made the jump from like Conspiracy Corner.
01:06:54
Speaker
syndicated TV, alternative media to mainstream, especially on Fox because of the X-Files, alien factor fiction my shit. And you would see all this errant photography of like this footage of like, is this an alien spacecraft? And that looked like one of those instances.
01:07:14
Speaker
And it looked really good. So that's why I was like, yeah,
UFO Sightings and Modern Technology
01:07:18
Speaker
that's a cool shot. That was really good. i'm Like, it's very, it's very strange to me that all the UFOs have not all of them, but a lot of the UFOs have somehow disappeared now that everyone has a 4K camera in their in their pockets. So it seems interesting.
01:07:32
Speaker
that we don't get We don't see a lot of that footage anymore. I wonder why because like you could actually zoom in and see that it's a weather balloon. and Even when we see it on the aircraft now, it's like, you mean to tell me that overpriced equipment that private contractors have charged the government malfunctions and casts weird images on the scopes? I believe that 100 percent. yeah well ah I also believe that, like, oh, you mean the government is like test flying? Yes, seek top secret shit and they're not telling you. No, you're crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I believe that. I have 100 percent believe that over an alien us flying saucer showed up and is going to abduct everybody. Could or what part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy? I didn't have an answer for this. So I'm interested here as you had not had a type.
01:08:25
Speaker
Well, right. Turn. She said, what is it? 20th century ah implements or technology? Yeah, that that was a sick burn. But it's the same thing. Like, I don't know what technology 400 years ago, I would even know how to use a printing press. I wouldn't know how to use that. I mean, so I mean, you'd learn. I mean, it's the same exact. What I learned in 15 minutes as she appeared to, I don't know. No. Yeah.
Educational Value of Printing Press Technology
01:08:49
Speaker
yeah I think they were in there. And the thing is, the printing press has not actually changed. Yeah.
01:08:54
Speaker
that much. ah You still have to set the type. Yeah. I mean, once you figure that part out, you're you're all good. hu Um, that's yeah, they're not, they're not teaching that they're, they're definitely teaching about, you know, temporal prime prime directive and all that stuff for
Voyager Crew Logs and Tactical Lessons
01:09:12
Speaker
sure. But like, from like, again, the Voyager crew logs are coming out. What are they, what are they teaching? I don't know. I'm going to say it has something to do with tactical situations when you're trying to, when you're dealing with primitives. So they knew that Starling had 29th century technology, but they were able to use their 24th century tech tech to bypass a lot of the security, right?
01:09:31
Speaker
because it's
29th-Century Tech vs. 20th-Century Strategies
01:09:32
Speaker
20th century technology. So like strategically, they forgot that they are, he said, I have the home-filled advantage because I have the 29th century. But kind of like how Kirk is able to outsmart Khan, because Khan doesn't have the experience of piloting a ship, all of Khan's strategies indicate two-dimensional thinking. It's like as soon as they get punched in the mouth, the Voyager crew forgets. There's still a
Character Motivations: Burnout or Seeker?
01:09:54
Speaker
20th century individual dealing with 29th century technology, but doesn't have any of the inter so intervening years of strategy or, you know, like vari experience. Yeah, exactly. Like he found a phaser and thinks he's hot shit or whatever. you like Right. The fact that he would even understand most of the stuff in that ship is bonkers to me. In the first scene, he's a burnout.
01:10:19
Speaker
I well, I said he's he's either like a ah ah libertarian or hippie trying to find his way. Like he's honest like he's up alone when we come across him. Right. He's like, is he a burnout or is he a a person searching for things and trying to find his way? And this he's just a guy out in the forest smoking weed, Brian. There's nothing like OK. I mean, am i why is he out there? OK, fine.
01:10:41
Speaker
probably dodging the draft. There you go. So yeah, that's gotta be what he is. So he has, he's not just a burnout. Draft dodging. Yeah.
Janeway's Threat and Character Transformation
01:10:51
Speaker
ah But again, Janeway threatens to vaporize the building and then what? She's not gonna do that now? You know what I mean? Like he threatened her life to get Voyager to comply. Also, why is there a picture of him as like an old like a 40 year old man next to Nixon when earlier he was like the burnout in the desert?
01:11:12
Speaker
Well, that was 67 and Nixon wasn't president until what, 16, seven or so, 71. So, but I mean, like, so at some point during the Nixon presidency, he cleaned up, you know, he started making money. No, like four or five years. I think that's, that's all believable. He was like, I think you and Henry Kissinger are doing a heck of a job in Vietnam. Keep it up.
01:11:35
Speaker
By the way, that picture is, I believe.
Could the Episode Be Hornier?
01:11:39
Speaker
Is it the one of Elvis? Yes. All right. And then could this episode have been hornier with that and made it better? I mean, it certainly could have been hornier. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think Tom Parris can be like, I ain't going to fuck myself, fuck my way out of this one. And then like the Sarah Silverman character being like, no, thank you.
01:12:05
Speaker
I think the, I don't think it could have been any hornier than it was and I think they tried. Yeah. I mean, there's like, there's no room for it. It's already a two part episode.
Tech Villain and Starfleet's Real-Life Portrayal
01:12:14
Speaker
But I definitely think if it had been horny or it wouldn't have made it better, there's something to, they were, for some reason, the corniness of Starfleet people interacting with real life works in this case, maybe because there's so much plot that they have to rush through and they're ultimately dealing with like a tech villain. You know what I mean? Like it's not real people.
01:12:36
Speaker
You know, they're they're dealing with the nerd at the end of the day the and reigns a nerd. And I think it kind of works in that way. But anyway, so Trek, Merry or Kill, Futures End Part 1.
Futures End Part 1: Direction and Plot Praise
01:12:46
Speaker
I think it's a strong trek for me. I like this episode. Yeah, I give it a ah strong trek as well. can I can't give it a marry because it's not emotional. like there's not it's not And it's not ultimately about anything except its plot. And it's a ripping good plot. David Livingston does a fantastic job. It's very well-directed. um And you get really good performances as we highlight it.
01:13:08
Speaker
All right, we're going to find out next week that they're able to stop Proto Elon Musk ah from destroying the future in Futures End Part Two. Can they take down Ed Begley Jr.? Many people have, so I don't see why they couldn't. Yeah.
01:13:26
Speaker
I think but if I but had to bet, I think my money is on our Voyager crew. They did send the most some of the most competent members of the crew. So on the on the first away mission. the Good point. That is the probably the A team that you could get. Oh, for sure. We're going to also hear some thoughts from Sarah Silverman about shooting these two episodes. Not like she's not like a guest on a show.
01:13:55
Speaker
No, correct. you know she She won't be here. That's right. We're not going to hear directly from her, but that's right just some quotes from her.
Listener Engagement and Feedback
01:14:04
Speaker
If you're enjoying the show, consider liking us and rating us and reviewing us wherever you're listening. If you have any questions or comments, you can always email us at trekmericapod at gmail dot.com. And so until next week, TMK out.