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LD: "We'll Always Have Tom Paris" & "Mugato, Gumato" (s2e3-4) with Katie Hampton
95 Plays1 month ago
RESURRECTIONS AND DIPLOMACY. Katie Hampton of the Napping Through Happy Hour Podcast returns for our monthly animated spotlight. This time out, our core four Lower Deckers get paired up unusually: Tendi & Mariner go on a Girls Trip in the first episode and Rutherford & Boimler have an adventure together in the second. Instant classic pairings that make for classic episodes?
The grades begin at (19:10). "Mugato, Gumato" review begins at (51:18).
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Transcript
Introduction: The Trek Mary Kill Show
00:00:00
Speaker
This month on Trek Mary Kill. Ferengi. Diplomacy. Plates. Energize. Welcome back to the Cerritos, Mr. Boindler. Thank you, sir. It's good to be back. You and me have never done a mission together. Let's do this. Mariner and Tendi on a girls trip.
00:00:23
Speaker
Trek. Mary. Kill.
00:00:38
Speaker
Returning for this month's animated spotlight, I creep myself out there. I loved it. Returning for this month's animated spotlight is star of stage and screen and co-host of the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast. It's Katie Hampton. Katie, welcome back. Hello, thank you so much.
00:00:53
Speaker
All right, so we're talking about two episodes this month as we always do on our animated spotlights. First up is We'll Always Have Tom Paris. It's the third episode of Star Trek Lower Decks second season. It premiered on Paramount Plus, August 26th, 2021, written by M. Willis, directed by Bob Suarez. Memory Alpha describes it. Mariner and Tendi team up for a mission to retrieve an heirloom for Dr. T'Ana.
Deep Dive: 'We'll Always Have Tom Paris' Episode
00:01:15
Speaker
Meanwhile, the Cerritos is visited by Lieutenant Tom Paris, much to the excitement of Boimler, who is hoping to meet him. While all this happens, Rutherford is haunted by the mystery surrounding the reappearance of a familiar presence on the Cerritos. What memory Alpha does not tell us is that the familiar pre presence is Shax. Who's alive? What? What, how can that be? I saw him die. We should ask him about it. of what this episode presupposes is, what if we shouldn't?
Resurrection and Continuity in Star Trek
00:01:46
Speaker
Exactly. So this ah kicks off my conceptual exploration before we dive into the grades of resurrections in Star Trek. This is all Star Trek III's fault.
00:01:58
Speaker
but If not for Star Trek 3, we would not have this abundance of resurrections or death being something you could wiggle your way out of in Star Trek. It was really the main time. There's been other situations, obviously, where people thought someone was dead and they were stuck in, like, interphase or, you know, they were underground or whatever.
00:02:22
Speaker
That's different. This is like literally, no, no, that dude's dead and then resurrected. And and that was a controversial move for Star Trek III after they killed Spock in Star Trek II. Spoiler. and Oh, man. Yeah. But Paramount was like, listen, the franchise is nothing without Spock. We need Spock back.
00:02:43
Speaker
Very true. Very true. His fault. I mean, they didn't do the same kind of justice for Lieutenant Tasha Yar, but, you know. No, they did not. so Fair enough. There's the wrinkle. they They did not take that one back. No, they did not. They were like, bye. Well, I mean, she did come back in sort of an alternate universe in next gen. That's right. Further down the line. And she was no longer a lieutenant. So that's always nice. So that was someone playing with the rules of like, well, this is science fiction, right? It's not fantasy. So she's dead. But oh, the alternate universe thing, because of time travel to new shenanigans,
00:03:20
Speaker
creates a loophole that we could do it. And then what if we exploited that loophole in such a way that Brian, who had not yet seen yesterday's enterprise, but was vaguely aware of Tashiar, then saw her bound to life as a Romulan and was like, what's going on here? Having the same confusion as the enterprise cast who had not experienced that alternate reality. And then Guinan starts explaining it to you. And I'm like, I don't know what she's saying. This doesn't make sense to me. Oh, no.
00:03:48
Speaker
ah But anyway, I don't know, do you have a strong opinion about that as like, a yeah, as a concept, like resurrections in Star Trek is a thing? Yeah, I mean, it's it's very sci-fi, it's very like TV show, you know, it's one of those things that I feel like every time we hear of a character dying off screen, we're automatically like, well, we did he really die? I didn't die on screen. And then even when they do die on screen, it's like, well, what are they going to bring them back?
00:04:17
Speaker
I like that they're poking fun at this, um because it's such a sci-fi trope in general. it It is very much a Star Trek trope as well, where it's just like, they might be dead, but we might see them in a totally different aspect, or a different universe, or a different context, or a different time.
00:04:35
Speaker
um so it's It is funny that they're they're poking fun at this. I love the fact that, like especially in this episode, Shaxx will not tell but anybody what actually happened. And like there's some kind of unknown rule that no one asks them about it, which I feel like just explains the episodic experience of just going from one thing to the next and just being like, you know what? We're not going to address the
Voyager's Legacy and Upcoming Celebration
00:05:01
Speaker
fact that Spock died in that movie. right it's a little fuzzy because my recollection of the second half of the first season was that they got away from this a little bit because they didn't really need it but in the pilot the first episode anyway we remember like they're beaming up from the mission and suddenly the ships just subsumed by zombies like a zombie horde and it's the idea is like they're lower deckers they're not privileged to find out all this information and like bridge crew comes back all the time is a refrain here
00:05:29
Speaker
I appreciate that like they're keeping up with the concept of the show and um and in this case I mean it's a cartoon it's a sitcom like there's a part of me that's like I don't really care but they the fact like what you said they're taking the star trek trope and they're being like okay what can we do with that that sets it apart and it's just like let's hang as many jokes off of it as we possibly can uh it's great but yes in general I'm like no a character should die and stay dead that's That's the point. Even in a cartoon? Yeah. If it was Tasha, you're in a cartoon. with She would just be the swamp monster the entire time. And then I guess I wanted to kind of touch on your I don't think I know Katie Hampton's ah conceptual series overview of Star Trek Boyager.
00:06:19
Speaker
Oh, you mean the boy? Yeah, or just boy saves the most time. if hey yeah the most time ah um i've I've watched the first couple of episodes. i I just haven't gotten fully into it. And it's not to say that it's not engaging. It's just one of those that it's like, I've lacked time and cover a lot of different shows and a lot of different podcasts.
00:06:42
Speaker
So Voyager is not one that I know a lot about, but I do know Tom Paris and the original character that Tom Paris played. Yeah, Tom Paris. Yes, Robert. Yes. But also he was the kid in the flight school with Wesley. Oh, yes. Yes. He was also. ah Oh, boy. Got to pull this. art Yeah. Sorry. I took me 10 minutes today to remember that Anya Taylor Joy's name. And I only remembered it because someone told me her first name.
00:07:12
Speaker
so ah and Trust me, i I do that all the time. He played nicole Nick Locarno, jeez Louise. Wow, i'm got it I gotta tell you, that was impressive to watch.
00:07:28
Speaker
It was incredibly impressive to watch. That's a verbal out of be like a k Cronenberg monster. Cadet first-class Nicholas Locarno. I love that your reasoning in your own brain, in your own mental palace, got there as quick as I could Google it.
00:07:46
Speaker
the The reason why he, Nick Locarno did not go over to Voyager, which was the intention, right was the realization that they would have to pay the writer of that episode who came up with that character and character name a fee every time he was in the show, which I believe was still like $600. But I guess over the run of the show, if they figured they were going to do seven seasons, like This is not, you know, as much as people want to talk about, you know, their $15 million dollars discovery episodes today, they were still made at their time and Voyager actually was made closer to what shows are made at that time. It was a bit more expensive for sure.
00:08:27
Speaker
okay But if you were coming from next generation in Deep Space Nine, where you're doing syndicated budgets, which Rick Berman was, it's like, that $600 an episode, that's like, that could go to craft services. You know what I mean? Like, there was always some way to allocate that money in a different way. And they're like, it literally is cheaper to just come up with a different character. We'll make them a little bit different. So that's where we get.
00:08:49
Speaker
I got to say, congrats to Robert Duncan McNeil, because that is incredible to get that kind of a deal as an actor. Like, you've got to be a great dude to get them but to be like, you know, we're not going to pay the original writer who wrote the original character that you were in, but we like you. So come on back and we'll have a different writer who we will pay. They did have certain actors who they did like a lot. The Leah Brahms actor, she came back as Commander Valtain, I believe was her name. the That came quicker to me, and I'm not even sure that's right, but she's in the home front two parter on Deep Space Nine. So I don't know. So there's just certain people that they like. You know, Voyager, Boimler liking Voyager.
00:09:35
Speaker
My recollection of Lower Decks right off the bat is that Voyager and Deep Space s Nine are the two that those the top two characters actually do like the most. So like we know why Mariner is a big Deep Space Nine head because her characters serve there. But also Tawny Newsom, that was her favorite show growing up. But just knowing that we were watching it at the same time is kind of a cool thought because she was from the same area. But that's different. That's just me being selfish. But Boimler gets a lot of Voyager stuff.
00:10:05
Speaker
So, and I know they referenced the enterprise and TNG g and Riker and all that stuff, but it seems like at least with the writers or something, Voyager and Deep Space Nine has a more meaningful connection to all them. And that seems to be reflective of even people my age, because you're much, much, much younger than me. Like wow there are people my age seem to a lot more Voyager fans. Yeah.
00:10:27
Speaker
So you're like, Voyager, I'm familiar with it. But no, I didn't like it. And that was that was technically the era I should have been watching it. um You know, Next Gen was was what got me into everything. But that was more like my mom and I sitting and watching it. And it was really more her show. And then Voyager was also very much her show.
00:10:45
Speaker
um But then growing up, like I didn't touch back down into any Star Trek until I started ah doing VR stuff and we were doing a VR game that was called Bridge Crew in VR. And I was like, okay, I think I'm going to go back through and actually watch these things. And so I got through all of Next Gen and I was starting Voyager and then our show got canceled.
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah, you do. You know, it's what it is. ah January will mark the 30th anniversary of Voyager's debut, which is not at all a depressing thing to say out loud in process. But for Trek Mary Kill
Character Dynamics in Lower Decks
00:11:26
Speaker
for that month, Cherise, the sci-fi savage, she will be joining me for those episodes. She's already, if you're listening to our run of episodes, our live action ones, where we started Star Trek Discovery season five, you can listen to Cherise there. And we're going to be doing ah four episodes from Voyager's first season in January. We've already done Caretaker. You can go back to when Kristin and I did that one, but otherwise we'll give you a sample. 30 years ago, Voyager came out. That's nuts. That's, frankly, it's nuts.
00:12:00
Speaker
It's just, I remember it clearly. Of course, yeah of course. clear Clearer than Nick Locarno's name. so yeah Well, that's saying something. And then this was the episode where we find out that Tendi is mistress of the winter constellations, yeah just to bring it back to Lower Decks, which obviously I forgot because that's definitely a part of ah Strange New Worlds, the crossover episode that comes into play there. so Uh, just fun, fun little note there. Both of these episodes have lowered X firsts in them. So, and, and I, I don't know if, if I have poisoned your brain enough to spot the twinning in the two episodes across the two episodes. it a little bit There's definitely, there's definitely like, Oh, because of the the dual release, like I'm a lot more aware of all of the different things. Um, but yeah, no, it um on top of that, we, we also get the return of jet.
00:12:57
Speaker
and, uh, man-haver. Jeff Manhaver, yes. A name so good, it's like we need to have this character on. He's such a normal dude. yeah yeah but Yeah. He was the well platinum of his time to bring some megalopolis into this. There you go.
00:13:17
Speaker
ah People listening are like, what are they talking about? Well, go see Megalopolis if you can sit through it all. Did you actually do it? Sorry, sorry. Well, we're going tonight. OK. By the time this episode comes out, it will not be in theaters. I'm very certain this comes out November 1st. OK. No way. You might be still there. Maybe. Yeah. Like a room style screening.
00:13:42
Speaker
All right. So memory alpha notes before we get into the grades here, uh, star trek dot.com celebrated this episode. We'll always have Tom Paris as the 800th episode of star trek. That's crazy. That is crazy. And obviously everyone has slightly different calculations, but you know, in our show description, 950 episodes of star trek are in the air. So like I've even count that they've gone into production on Starfleet academies. So those 10 count star trek.
00:14:11
Speaker
Season three of Strange New Worlds has been produced, but hasn't debuted. Those count, you know what I mean? So Prodigy hadn't come out yet when this episode premiered. Those are 40 episodes. So even just since then, you know, there's 60 episodes. It's been like a thousand. Yeah, it's been quite a lot. So Tom Parris' first canonical appearance since the Voyager series finale, which really should come as no surprise. But just, I guess when you think about it in terms of who does come back,
00:14:39
Speaker
It is kind of weird to think which characters reappear for whatever reason get referenced. i i But I love that like they even have some of the people from the actual Lower Decks crew in the Lower Decks episode from Next Generation. like They bring back a whole wild amount of characters with the original actors. Absolutely.
00:15:00
Speaker
And animation is what really does afford that. So yeah that's why it's the thing that's like, I'm always like, when people who are devoted animated people, they're like, why it's not different from live action. Why does it get treated differently? And then like, well, it is different and because you can do stuff like so much a 70 year old actor can play their their younger selves. It'll sound a little bit different unless you do some sweet thing there. But like, there are things you can do that make things possible that you can't do in live action and vice versa.
00:15:29
Speaker
And not to say it the works. lot So I don't know. That's the beauty of it. Quailar two previously is the episode that Tendi and Mariner go to, to pick up this artifact or this antique for Dr. Tohono. Yeah. It's a, am I saying Tohono is Tohono? Okay. Quailar two previously appeared in TNG's unification parts one and two. That's basically the episodes where Spock returns, which generally people view as boring.
00:15:59
Speaker
The fact that the enterprise is on the side mission, it's not all that thrilling. Anyway. Um, and then we get a shot of the quarks bar, the franchise bar, which was a concept introduced in Star Trek Picard season one, which Kristen and I will be tackling ah in in March because that will be the five year anniversary of its premiere, which is another crazy thought anyway.
Canon and Humor in Star Trek Discussions
00:16:24
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. And then in this episode, we actually find out that Mariner served aboard Deep Space Nine before the Keto. And it somehow overlapped, because of course it did, with Worf's assignment aboard the station. um And in addition to Worf, Mariner references Odo. So there's that. And this is, I think that's all coming from from Tandy Newsom, because she just wants to,
00:16:50
Speaker
she loves Deep Space Nine, so. Love Deep Space Nine doesn't realize that Mariner totally served on Deep Space Nine. And yeah, I love the, I do love the connection between... Tani Newsom. I did her screen name. Sorry.
00:17:05
Speaker
but She has her screen name as an amalgamation of all the names she's been called because people hate her. And so you know, all white piece of shit Star Trek fans quote unquote. Oh my god. Her Twitter handle is Trondi something. Trondi Newsome, yeah. Yeah, so she's just Trondi Newham. And I'm doing it and I love her. yeah Sorry I said that. Tondi Newsome. Jeez, sorry. What were you saying?
00:17:30
Speaker
I was just going back to the Lower Decks relationship between Tendi and Mariner. Yeah, that's good. The healthier they are. You could, you could. um No, I thought it was really cool that weve we finally get a Tendi and Mariner team up. um A classic Tendi Mariner mess around, ah which we haven't seen. Tendi usually ah goes with Rutherford on all of her missions. They're flirting and not and all that together. and always in the background. I love that like the kind of the impetus of this is that ah Mariner knows nothing about Tendi. And then it's not until this point where Tendi asks, wait, you were, what were you doing on Deep Space Nine, that she realizes that she doesn't know much but about Mariner either. um And so we we get a lot of really cool backstory on both Tendi and Mariner throughout this episode. And just like, how,
00:18:23
Speaker
and unaffected Tendi is about being a badass, but not really wanting to be because she does not like sort of her history and her people's, ah you know, affiliation with pirating. Right. ah And then Mariner is just a badass through and through and we get pieces. I feel like there is no end to the depth of where Mariner has come from. There's a part of that where that's like, what's whatever the story needs?
00:18:51
Speaker
But also, as we'll find out in the next episode, there is some element of myth-building yeah yeah that she's trying to accomplish. Shall we get into the grades? Sure. All right. We'll start with grade moments. I have a few. How many did you have? Let me find them. You go first.
00:19:10
Speaker
So I really like the moment where Boimler comes in. So there's a running gag because Boimler's back on the ship, remember? So the the doors, the the security protocol doesn't it doesn't notice him, which is sounds like ah it's itself a security problem. So as the doors are like literally slamming on him when he's trying to walk through them, you know that's the cartoon side of it. By the way, he shows Mariner and Rutherford his plate collection of the entire VOI crew.
00:19:37
Speaker
you He likes to just call him Voi, which is the, if anyone doesn't realize, I'm sure everyone listening knows that, the three letter abbreviation for all the shows. Every show has one. um Everyone thought that Discoveries was gonna be STD. And I remember Michael Okuda, like going to Twitter, he's like, when have we ever done that? Like we've never, the next generation is T-N-G, the next generation. The Star Trek is not part, TOS is T, the original c series. Like we've never done that. So you're just doing that because you're assholes.
00:20:09
Speaker
that's like It's like Discovery is DSC. So it's like Lord X's LD, so Voyager's voice. But the Tom Paris thing. ah And then in that moment, they're also, it's a scene, it's a scene it so load-bearing scene. We're getting all the plot elements in one place. Tiana at the end comes, to sorry, Tendi comes in at the end and asks Mariner to join her on this trip.
00:20:33
Speaker
So, and then we're finding out that Rutherford's being like, are you guys not weirded out that Shax is just back? He's dead. He saved my life. And they're like, ah, it's it's Bridge Crew. and They come back to life all the time. It's not a big deal. Bridge Crew are always coming back. Yeah. So you've got like just the pure plot mechanics of it, which is fine. But I just, Boiler's enthusiasm for, I don't, Voyager's not my favorite show. And Tom Paris is ah among the most random characters you can hit it yes and it's boy to be real like at the fact that he has a commemorative plate of thom paris of all characters in the entire entirety of search of course but has a plate of thom paris
00:21:14
Speaker
that he has to go through all of Jeffrey's tubes with and get like basically blown apart with his cute little plate. But um yeah, no, it it it's super ridiculous. And um ah I also love that this is um this is where we kind of get the sense that Rutherford's not over the fact that Shaq saved him and then watched him die, as I mean, essentially, or blow up and then cannot comprehend why no one's making this a big deal, which frees up Tendi to then become friendly with Mariner. And um we found out we find out that Tendi likes acid, Klingon acid punk, which I thought was a really great moment. but
00:21:57
Speaker
Um, I'm, I'm a big fan of anyone kind of geeking out or freaking out over a celebrity that's like not that big of a celebrity and Boimler trying through hellfire and back to get to Tom Paris. And then as soon as he finally drops down right next to Tom Paris, Tom Paris calls him what, a caisson?
00:22:23
Speaker
like on he just immediately starts be shit out of
00:22:29
Speaker
And I also like the call out that Boimler has with the computer getting so frustrated that like he's not being recognized like when there's an emergency and he's trying to get the computer to shut something down and the computer does not recognize him or his authority and he says, you don't need authorization in an emergency. Which feels like a lot of what we've been screaming at the TV when these kinds of things happen or when the computer just kind of goes off grid.
00:22:58
Speaker
Yeah, what else do you have? I do love that we not only get Jett back, but ah the but but we kind of get Jett put in his place a little bit. And the fact that basically it's just a pissing match with Mariner and Jett. Am I wrong in that? No, that's a different one. I mean, this is just basically he's like can carry you across the threshold. Right. You know, he's kind of like a goody two shoes, but like in a way that you're like, are you being an asshole? Like that kind of is his deal.
00:23:26
Speaker
God is always his deal. Though I do like, I know I'm dropping ahead. I like that in the next episode, we find out that he doesn't go in for his medical checkups. That's right. That's right.
00:23:37
Speaker
oh but I also ah really enjoyed ah when ah we get the line, this is how we kick ass in the Delta Quadrant. Hey, yeah.
00:23:49
Speaker
he So, Tom Perez coming in was ah hysterical and fun, but mostly for how freaked out that made Boimler. Also in the scene where we're getting that whole setup, the moment that I mentioned, like we get a rundown of all the possible ways that Shaxx could have come back. And I just, I'm not really necessarily a fan of the punchline of that being punchline is like Star Trek episode references. But again, it just was like encapsulating the whole thing. And it was, it was just fun to listen to the, to the rundown. It's like, it could be the Nexus, it could be an energy energy ribbon. Nexus, energy ribbon, they're the same thing. Like, and just the board could have brought them back and all that stuff. And we see this whole list ah become visualized later. um And,
00:24:36
Speaker
You said something that was really important. Like, Rutherford pulls a Tendi storyline. yeah Like, this ordinarily would be Tendi on the side quest. Like, we're it's just her anxiety driving her. And here, because it's like you said, it's Rutherford's guilt. Or just like, does something terrible happen? You saved my life. I feel guilty about it. You know, it's like there's an emotional reason for all of it to happen that makes a lot of sense. yeah And it connects to the Star Trek trope. So It's not like a great moment. I kind of think it's a great scene just because of all the work it does. But um all your moments are great, too. I mean, I'm tickled by the whole Tom Paris being a celebrity. yeah it's like He's like going on a speaking tour, right? That's the setup. Yeah, the fact that like. Talk about their boy, their boy years.
00:25:25
Speaker
you have four years that's like um Yeah, and then the fact that at the end, basically Boiler gets beat up by Tom Paris and Mariner has the line, not many people can say they got beat up by Tom Paris. Double meaning. yeah yeah ah it' So great. But um yeah, also like kind of going back, like, especially with the Borg stuff, ah the title credits have changed this this season. um For the first time, this is the first episode of the new season. um We finally get some Borg cubes, I believe, as well as um some of the warbirds, I believe.
00:26:04
Speaker
I skipped the credits. Oh no, you gotta stay with the credits because it keeps them expanding. I know, but I have two blasphemous statements that I just, I'm going to stand with. I think the Strange New World's enterprise is ugly. It's like disgusting to look at. And I don't like the credits for for lower decks. Oh my gosh, there's so much fun in lower decks. I do not grok them.
00:26:27
Speaker
ah Wow. Wow. Completely head to head on that one. i am Not the score. I want to be the theme I'm fine with. I like the music, but I just just the visuals do nothing. The visuals make me laugh every time and I love getting to see a new season and I'm bummed because all I wanted was for this series to go on and on and on and just that opening sequence to just get more and more villains of Star Trek.
00:26:55
Speaker
That's why it upsets me, because it the fact that it hurts your feelings, it was canceled. I was just like, this is terrible. yeah But great moments. Do you have any more great moments? We don't have to talk about the sadness of the cancellation. Of course, of course. ah No, I think that might be. or I liked when Tendi, when they go to the planet and the the Orion encampment and she basically has to code switch back to being Orion and in their culture, the women actually
00:27:27
Speaker
control them in and all that stuff. But just the way that she starts ordering her cousin around and becoming a full Orion, I like that. I kind of like most of that sequence. I like Mariner's reaction to seeing the cousin and all that. That that was all great. But the the switching where she's suddenly kicking him and punching him. Well, again, some animation to affords where you can actually make something really funny with how quick something happens. yeah And it looks great. And then I...
00:27:55
Speaker
I, this was a scene that caused me to perk up off the couch, remember in the middle of the night when I'm watching this, when Rutherford confronts Shax, and he's just like, tell me what happened. And he's like, are you sure you want me to tell you? If I tell you, it could be very depressing. here but You'll never go back. yeah And you can see they they play it as like, yes, this seems like it'll be really heavy on him. But because he's Rutherford, he goes, okey-dokey, or basically like, sure, tell me. i won Tell me, tell me, tell me. And then he hears about it.
00:28:22
Speaker
he's like he's never acting like I wish I didn't know they always play it like I'm an engineer I need all the facts so he's just clearly haunted by it and I just love like you'll face three versions of your buff it's like the whole thing I just thought it was great I'm like you know there is a that could live in another Star Trek series live-action or whatever you could have a moment like that and basically do the more dramatic version of are you sure you want to hear the horrifying truth like that you could do that? So like Wesley Crusher asking Worf if Worf had died in the season one episode. Worf, what happened? Why are you back?
00:28:59
Speaker
yeah yeah He's like, you are a boy, you would not understand. And he's like, but Worf, I care about you, tell me. and cut First, arc yes, yes. And then if Wesley just walks out. Yeah, his mind's blown.
00:29:16
Speaker
And we do get a little bit of that. Yes, absolutely. When Rutherford's like, maybe maybe there's a reason they don't want to tell you. Maybe there's too many horrors. All right, best trick tropes. I have four of them. Oh, please.
00:29:32
Speaker
ah Main character resurrection because what we're talking about, like, i is it a great trope, usually? I'd say no, it's usually a worse trek trope, but I think because it's such a dangerous part of the story, I think it's funny, it's good that Shax's back, so it's like a plus there. It's a good story for Rutherford, it's like a good, oh, he does have regular human feelings, because I think if someone did sacrifice themselves to save your life, that'd be heavy, man.
00:29:57
Speaker
That would be a lot to put on you, even if you're in the evolved 24th century and you can emotionally deal with things better according to Gene Roddenberry. It would still be a lot. And then to find out that this person went through a lot just to come back and what that entails, that would be pretty heavy. So I like that. I like the Klingon music because this time it's the acid punk instead of just opera.
00:30:20
Speaker
And I love that it's consistent, though, because it's a lot of, you know, they're playing over the wailing of the dishonored dead. And they had a bunch of dishonored Klingons come up on stage and sing. And I'm like, that's cool. I think, you know, the opera is such an easy thing. And if we think of like the opera as their pop music and then the acid punk is, you know, an alternative form of music for them, great. I really like that. And the fact that it's, you know, the the dishonored making music, that's cool to me.
00:30:48
Speaker
And then I have two more. Do you want to interject? No, go for it. Go for it. The Boimler scream. Yeah. Which they also try to give us a tendi scream as the act out, although I have issues with that. Not the scream itself, but the act out. But I just I'm OK with all the characters having their own scream. That's by the way, I'm a cheap laugh and that's a good cheap laugh for me. But Boimler's is so distinct. That's always fun. And then the last one is ah this is a trope I never thought we would get to use in Lower Decks. And that is outsmarting the computer.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah. So you yeah you were starting to say it, and I'm like, ah, but I'm like, let her cook. Let her cook. Let her cook. Because it is a great moment. But you know basically, when he says, you do not need authorization in an emergency, and it works, even though I'm like, well, OK, the mechanics of it, none of it really makes sense. But it's still him successfully talking the computer out of what its intentions were, using its own rationale for it.
00:31:43
Speaker
Great. That's a Trek trope. Kirk did it all the time. Michael Burnham does it in the Discovery pilot. It's a classic Trek trope, well-used deployed here. So I'm glad we got to do it. It also feels, and that this is actually one of my favorite moments too, because it it feels like a lot of Trek stuff will kind of mirror sort of everyday problems of our own century and and put them into a more futuristic context. I think this was like a really fun one because it's like,
00:32:12
Speaker
when you're Siri or you're Alexa or you're whatever stupid robot AI thing does not recognize you and how frustrating it is because you rely on this technology to literally open doors for you. It does not work. But yeah, you're totally right. I am so glad that they actually defeat the computer in this instance.
00:32:33
Speaker
ah I'm a big fan of Tendi and Mariner coming together. um i I would like to see more of this. I understand we're probably not going to see a whole lot more of this. um But um I really loved that they're they're doing sort of like branch off team ups that aren't just the stereotypical sets of Boimler and Mariner and Rutherford and Tendi. We see that in the next episode as well when we get Boimler and Rutherford. Exactly. Very rare as well. Very rare as well. A little bit of a twinning. But yeah, on top of that, I i will always love when um when we have sort of a simple solve to what might be a potential big threat, such as, ah I believe, I can't remember who attacks the ship, but we get the line, damage report. None?
00:33:29
Speaker
Well, that was when they were launching the shuttle at the ship, because they yeah Mariner was like, we need to create a reason why this antique broke. Broke. And like, what if we accidentally, there's a bee in the shuttle. Yes, exactly. yeah i Something about that is very, like, tropey for Lower Decks. And i again, I know I'm always pulling Lower Decks tropes as opposed to just Star Trek tropes. That's fine. That's what our and monthly animated spotlights. about it's no Yeah, it's just it's I love when they start to create a whole new problem that just ends up being absolutely nothing. We're fine. um But yeah, no, the trope of um just the bridge crew dying and coming back out of nowhere. I love that they explored that so fully in a full plot line. But yeah, i those were pretty much my essential trek tropes.
00:34:22
Speaker
apart from going on random missions that feel like they might be filler episodes but end up being kind of really great character arcs. Uh, worst truck tropes. I have a few. How many do you have? I've got a couple. I mean, I, the, just the main fact of like, Hey, I need this item and I can't go get it. You guys need to go on this journey of friendship to go and find this item for me. And then it not being a problem. Another sort of lower decks trope, but not always my favorite where it's just like, I just needed the box at the end. it is Yeah. It's a little depressing that.
00:34:57
Speaker
the modern creative perspective on what lower deckers do is basically be the assistance to the stars yeah and or like the Uber drivers. What was the the the online discourse evolved into like the taxi for my burrito talking about the online delivery services. I'm like, what am I going to boil down DoorDash? The taxi for my my burrito taxi is here. And I'm like, that really does encapsulate where we are. I did not hear that, but I like that. and yeahp but But the whole idea of like that's what all they're doing is like these side missions for the main cast.
00:35:39
Speaker
I don't know, there's something not, I don't want to say cynical, just sad about it. Like it seems like that's a limited imagination of what it could be. Yeah. And so that's. And I agree, but I think similar to what I was talking about before, just with like, you know, technology not working or recognizing you as a human being, but should be here. um I feel like it's a little bit speaking towards a younger generation in the modern workplace of just being like, OK, yeah, we're in the like,
00:36:07
Speaker
lower ah ranks of whatever career we are. But we're also doing a lot of bullshit work that not only doesn't really amount to much, but also gets shoved to the side. Well, I'm with you, I just think. But what part of Star Trek then are they honoring the aesthetic? It seems like that's really the the main thing then, because that's I mean, occasionally, it's occasional and this's not to say that they never get to the core of what makes the show work.
00:36:36
Speaker
ah But I mean like as a starting point though, the starting point is not a love for the way they tell stories or a message. It is the aesthetic and then how can we i would bring it back around? it's I would say it's more a focus on sort of the commentary, the the commentary of the joke. and ah Yeah, they, within the context of who they are and what their rank is, and I do think that they progress this, at least through this season and next season, um they progress sort of what lower decks are and what they could be. And I do like that about this show. I like that they can move that on. But um yeah, I feel like it's more just a commentary of the joke of just how young 20 year olds are kind of just shit on because they can be.
00:37:25
Speaker
Any other worst Trek tropes? Yeah, thank you. oh but the you did did I'll run through mine. Yeah, go for it. The small galaxy problem. This might be a little unfair, but it just seems silly to me that Mariner served on Deep Space Nine at the same time as Worf and one was somehow able to do damage to his personal property. um I know, again, it's Tony Newsom's favorite Trek.
00:37:53
Speaker
um but there's also like a bunch of Voyager stuff in it. So it just kind of feels like a new way to justify the new, it seems like a shortcut to justify the new with the familiar. So like instead of because they can't do this, they can't have Michael Dorn, they can't have an episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine go, hey look at this show Lower Decks, isn't it cool? You have the opposite where Lower Decks is being like, aren't we cool?
00:38:17
Speaker
We're like connected to Deep Space Nine and we love Voyager. huh hu So I don't know, they're just a small universe in Star Trek. kind ofs There's like kind of two things going on at all times in Lower Decks. They have pop culture level referent knowledge of every adventure that all the Star Trek shows have been on. But also, most of the crew has served with Most of the people involved in those events So it's just like it's just to make sure at all times you're like we are connected We're a part of this universe and if we're not sure about a punchline We will put a Star Trek reference in to cover our ass So I put it as a worst trick to appear because it just it felt like too much because in this particular episode when we've got the Voyager the voice of
00:39:02
Speaker
fandom thing going on on top of the Deep Space Nine connection there. That was my part there. And then the other one, it's more of a bad TV trope. But when they break Dr. Tohana's libido post, it's a false problem. Yeah, it's a false dilemma because you literally are in the 24th century where they can replicate stuff. I mean, if you have ah the neural, so sorry, what am I trying to say? If you have like the laser sit, scalpels and sutures, sure the dermal regenerators, sure then you can fix what so like it's, it's in itself a false jeopardy to go on the act out on. And so I just didn't buy that. And then along those lines, when they break the scratching post, that's born of some real weird sexual
00:39:49
Speaker
insecurity and about like once they realize it's her ah libido post they get all giggly and weird about it and I again what ah part of Star Trek are you honoring with Lord X because the original series was pretty freaky and pretty open and it didn't like laugh at sexuality and this is just like that right there where they are uncomfortable with it and And I don't know I don't know what I would want instead but it just seems like in terms of a worst trek choke we've seen Star Trek 2 do better and the fact that both of them react the same way as maybe the part where I feel comfortable putting as a worst trek choke because some people might be like oh it's funny who cares but it's like it's one thing if if maybe Tendi's uncomfortable with it.
00:40:32
Speaker
Sure. But the fact that Mariner's joining in and she's like, Ooh, I touch you with my bare hands and all this other stuff. On the same episode where we find out that she's pansexual, I'm like, well, not really like you're abstractly pansexual. But, you know, I just.
00:40:50
Speaker
You know, I just see when I might wrote down my notes, I'm like, you you gosh darn pure teens. You're so uncomfortable with sex. Mike McMahon, so uncomfortable with sex. It has to be a joke. Just come on. You know, it's something that I'm going to be like noticing a lot more. um But yeah, no, I i totally ah I it felt a little juvenile in one of those things that I just kind of passed over. So that's I'm totally going to be more aware of that from now on.
00:41:17
Speaker
um But yeah, no, I agree the the false the false problem, especially like trying to solve ah a problem that just happens at the end of the episode. ah You know, it had to be false. um But yeah shoot there was a there was one other thing. ah I would say one of my least favorite Trek tropes is um when they're going undercover and it's like they only have a time limit and it's like, you know, it's gonna go all right right in the middle of something. But I did love that they kind of subverted that at least initially with
00:41:53
Speaker
um ah her so I think it was Mariner sneezing or something like that. And it was just like, oh oh, are you okay? And it was just like, oh, it's just allergy. Oh yeah, they're really bad this time of year. My pheromones. My pheromones. I'm allergic to pheromones. That's right. That's right.
00:42:11
Speaker
Yeah, she has to go in green face as an Orion. Yes, which I thought was gutsy. ah yeah If she's ever running for office 30 years from now, that's going to be a big problem for her. That would be a really fun callback, though, if they did that. Is this you in green face? Most cosplayable character or moment? um I would say anyone from um just just going in green face.
00:42:40
Speaker
ah So to sidestep that in case people don't want to do that, I want to see someone be the Tom Paris commemorative plate. Oh my gosh, yes. That's a good one. That's a really good one. Just have it around. You figure it out. The other one, I was thinking it was just like dressing up as the sexual podium. Yeah, that was mine too, initially. But I'm like, but if you're going to do that, you might as well just start with a Tom Paris bass. You just had a ring around it. Yeah, not wrong. That's actually a really good one. Just have it like, shink.
00:43:17
Speaker
yeah All right, now it's time for the line, Mr. Jones. Great lines. Oh man, I have so many per usual. Let's see. um Obviously, you don't need you don't need authorization in an emergency. I thought that was fucking hilarious. ah who Why are you talking like that? Oh, allergies to pheromones. I know, they're really bad this year.
00:43:42
Speaker
oh When Mariner discovers that Tendi has a cousin that she's basically beating up and then Mariner gasps and says, biceps. That was great.
00:43:55
Speaker
and um Tom Paris, ah, um, always hilarious. I love that every time I get to this point, I've always said them all. There's ah like only a few people in the galaxy who can say they were beat up by Tom Paris. Solid, funny joke. I call the Voyager void to save time. Mariner, it does not. which is not same time. Mariner just saying that Bridge Crew are always coming back. ah ah Yeah, I think those are pretty much all the ones I already mentioned even.
00:44:34
Speaker
So after Rutherford discovers that it's like gonna get him demoted or transferred if he asks Shax about what happened, yeah he's walking away in fear and you hear as an aside, Billups goes, so you still have him flashbacks? And Shax just goes, having one right now. And then in on the planet, when they're trying to get it repaired and they get charged 50 strips of platinum,
00:45:00
Speaker
and And Mariner's confident they can like win that money at the Domjot table by scamming some Nausikans and tries to do it. The Nausikans get another like kind of lame thing like, yep, that's what the Nausikans do.
00:45:12
Speaker
Because in that one episode, that's what happened. So I was like, whatever. But this made me laugh. So it kind of like pulled the whole bit away, dusted it off for me. They're about to start fighting. The proprietor comes in and goes, hey, no fighting. I just got that table rejotted. And I say that you're you have to jot or rejotted Dom Jot tables. Right. So that was amazing. ah Tom Paris, when he goes onto the bridge for the first time. Mind if I give her a whirl? I hear these Cali class engines can purr. And then Freebie goes, of course, just so send us to the Delta Quadrant. And I thought, that's a perfect lame joke.
00:45:46
Speaker
you yeah I'm glad they didn't do the like, haven't heard that one before type of thing. I just thought that was funny. Great tendie. It was hard getting into the Academy. There's still a lot of stigma around Orion's. A lot of humans think we're all thieves and pirates. Wait, my cousin works in a thieves den and a pirates outpost in the sector. He may be able to help us out. So that was a very nice turn. I have the biceps line, but then I'm just going to play the clip. But I mean, Rutherford goes to Ash Shaxx. What happened? I need to know. Yes, yes.
00:46:18
Speaker
Whoa! Baby Beth, what's the matter? I know I'm not supposed to ask you how you came back from the dead, but I know it was my fault that you died, and maybe if you tell me how you came back, I won't feel as guilty anymore. Turbo lift halt. It wasn't your fault. Saving you was my duty. There's a reason we don't tell anyone how we come back. I know. You can't tell me because I'm just an ensign. It's nothing to do with rank, son. We're
00:46:52
Speaker
Works for me! Tell me, tell me! Okay, so death is the first thing that happens. And then, oh wait, you do know about the Black Mountain, right? Uh, the what now? The Black Mountain is a spiritual battleground. Your soul goes, where you have to fight three faithless Africans of your father. Oh, Oh!
00:47:15
Speaker
No, no, I did not. Aw, boo, we never get to know the cool stuff. Or maybe they're just sparing us from knowing horrible, horrible things that and happen to good people. Yeah, it definitely isn't that, they're just jerks. Really funny, great, great, not inversion, subversion, just great use of the trope, just maximizing the comedy of it. Yeah. Now it's time for the line must be drawn here, great art.
00:47:39
Speaker
Uh, I, I would say honestly, uh, just going down to the planet that Tendi and Mariner are down on, like everything about that was like really cool. It was, was that's why it was hard for me to like pick what was the, it looked beautiful. It just looked really nice when they were traveling down on the planet.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, which which I thought was great. um I will not get over just the commuter ship, basically the skiff bopping into their ship and damage report.
00:48:13
Speaker
uh none um i thought that was visually and line wise very hysterical um but yeah and then also the tom paris plate just being burnt to pieces i thought was hilarious i wouldn't say it was beautiful but i thought it was hilarious ah Would this be a fun, hollow novel to play out? I put no, lots of running into doors. yeah And then you've got to be ah play as green face, offensive. Very offensive.
00:48:47
Speaker
Do you agree or do you think it'd be fun? I i agree. It's so funny because i'm like it ah when I was watching it, I was like, man, talking about green face is such a... No, that's why I'm doing it so seriously because it's so funny to think of. it's so funny to think about but it's also like oh wow are we like now saying that this is like cancelable that would do a great face like hysterical to like paint yourself green but also at the same time i was undercover right right why were you undercover i broke a thing i broke a yeah a sex totem
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah. you get You also get beat up by Tom Paris. I mean, you have to fight Tom Paris. Either way, it's like, yeah what part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy? um Obviously, how to re-register when you get back on a ship. Yeah. Well, yes. I put Orion cultural norms because there's so much that Mariner didn't know and Tendi was like trying to break You know, being the first anything, it's a good Star Trek trope. She's the first Orion, I think, or one of the first. So it's like, it's good that that that be in there, I think at some point. All right. So Trek, Merry or Kill will always have Tom Paris. I would say this is a solid Trek for me. It's funny. It's hysterical. It moves some of the plot of the characters along. It doesn't necessarily move the overall plot along, but I would say this is a solid Trek for me. I agree.
00:50:20
Speaker
Is it because I said it first? No. I agree. I thought the death stuff was was what really makes the episode work, or the the best for me. But everything else was funny, too, even if I didn't agree with the jeopardy of the the cat storyline. And the fact that all she really wanted at the end was the box that it was in. Eh, whatever. I mean, it's cute.
00:50:45
Speaker
but But more on the cat doctor behaving like a cat in our next review. yeah
00:50:55
Speaker
<unk> is on route to frylin four to investigate the reported sighting of a mugato wegato dumb are fresh tangy
00:51:11
Speaker
Okay, Mugatu, Mugatu Gumatu, wait, I'm saying it wrong, but that's the intention, ah is the Mugatu Gumatu is the fourth episode of Lord X fourth season, it premiered on Paramount Plus September 2nd, 2021. written by Ben Rogers and directed by Bob Suarez. Memory Alpha describes it. The USS Cerritos is dispatched to a planet to investigate an unexplained sighting of a dangerous Mugatu. What Memory Alpha doesn't mention is that the Mugatu have been abandoned there, and some Ferengi are poaching them, I guess, and selling them off.
00:51:44
Speaker
Meanwhile, Boimler and Rutherford hear a rumor from the ship's crusty old bartender named Honus that Mariner is actually a special operative and they take it to heart coming to fear their friend. Aww. And in the other two storylines, Tendi is chasing down stragglers who won't get their annual physical and discovers that Dr. Tana, the cat, doesn't want to go to the vet. Plus Captain Freeman gets scammed by an alien.
00:52:06
Speaker
So I mentioned twinning. yeah And I think there is that element here because in this episode, the last episode was Mariner and Tendi getting to know more about each other that they didn't know before. And then this one, it's not Boimler and Rutherford getting to know more about each other, even though they're paired together because they're dudes, you know, we don't care that much. We don't get to know each other that way.
00:52:29
Speaker
But I've got to play their diploma their diplomacy game. That's right. but That's right. there we're we're We're more of a games-oriented french gender than sports and other stuff. But they do know, they think they learned something new about their other friend, in this case, Mariner, and they come to fear her because of that.
00:52:52
Speaker
And it it so it is about like learning something new about your friends. You've also got the frangy overlap. Because remember, there's frangy in the first episode. Mariner's got a frangy friend on Quailer too. And then there's the frangy in this episode that come right back here. Not that it's bad that they appear in multiple episodes. It's just interesting. I've noticed how frequently pairs what things carry over from episode to episode. So just thought that was interesting. Yeah, i it is. It's fun that we we get so many Ferengi and ah especially in this episode too, where we kind of get Ferengi as we know them as a across the Star Trek universe. Yes. Sort of these paddling criminal underlings. Yes. utterling
00:53:33
Speaker
oh Go ahead. But yeah, no, I love that we're starting to find out a little bit more about the mystery behind Mariner in this episode. The bartender, what's his name? It's Honus? It says it's Honus. I'm glad you're bringing him up. I could have sworn they said Otis, and I love that he has- Maybe it's Honus, but the way it's written is H-O-N-U-S.
00:53:56
Speaker
Okay, because all of my notes say Otis, so good to know that I'm just gonna switch that over to Honus. But um that character, hysterical. First time, I think last time we've seen him. It's just the creepy old bartender that... Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around what is the bit? What's the premise of this character?
00:54:16
Speaker
It's like going into, it felt very appropriate. i I know that we're recording this in the month of October and won't be released until November, but it felt very appropriate for this time of year. Like he's telling a nice haunted story um type of thing and kind of giving us the 20th century bartender. Like, well, you know about that guy at the end of the bar? Yes, there was a bit of like ah the rhyme of the ancient Mariner. Like, is there like a sea?
00:54:44
Speaker
chanty or like shanty ship ship captain or pirate thing going on theme that they're trying to put across here. It's just strange. He's voiced by, I cannot pronounce his name. He's the one that's been doing the R cartoon president. the He does a Trump impression. oh yeah So he's done a bunch of ah Trump things recently. He did a live action one.
00:55:05
Speaker
that I think was on Comedy Central, and then he did the cartoon one, I think. He's a comedian, yeah. So anyway, I just thought it was like, what is the bit here? Is it because she's mariner? So then this is like a...
00:55:18
Speaker
a marine-based character, like the the the bartender at an old like ah seaside pub or something? I'm kind of getting more like an alien or aliens vibe, where you know especially when she's kind of doing the the five finger thing with the knife while he's talking about her. And then she downs a shot as she flips the knife into the air. yeah um it feels It feels like just trying to lean more into the lore of who Mariner is and where Mariner has come from.
00:55:48
Speaker
um I don't know. I don't know if they were going for anything specifically here other than just like trying to expose more of the mystery that is Mariner. um And later, of course, we find out that Mariner is not these things she started the rumor to begin with, right to create mystery.
00:56:06
Speaker
um But I do find it interesting that that's also tied to her trying to create sort of mystery around her because she doesn't always make friends. um And we get that really beautiful moment between Rutherford, Boimler, and Mariner where they're like, we just assumed that you wouldn't be that cool and hanging out with us. Yeah. That is the emotional core of the episode, I guess. um And that's an important thing to keep in mind. It does feel like at the same time stuff that we could gather ourselves. At least from the Mariner standpoint, I think I appreciated Boimler and Rutherford kind of both stating like we thought we were so stupid and dorky that no one cool like you would be friends with us. It's kind of to me like the bigger revelation I feel like because Mariner's been such centered so much her psyche that just getting like these because Rutherford actually not a mystery but like what we do get about him like oh he is insecure and
00:57:06
Speaker
I was going to say beta, but basically introverted and all that stuff too. So he just assumed Mariner didn't like him. That all made sense to me. We kind of learned a little bit more about them than we did about her, I feel like, maybe. Sure. But maybe I'm right about that. I mean, we're also reintroducing the cast, I think, back together because we've had Boimler gone so long on the Titan. Fair enough. And we're sort of re-establishing. These friendships are real. I mean,
00:57:32
Speaker
In the last season, we had Mariner go on sort of like a rampage within the the holodeck. So, you know, there there might be some stuff that like, we have a little more questions on like Mariner's mental stability. And I feel like this was just sort of like establishing, yeah, she's a badass, um but they don't need to fear her as much as like her being taking out all of her aggression on her mom in the holodeck.
00:58:01
Speaker
I had an abstract question I like to ask. Is there something new you've learned about an acquaintance who's maybe a strong one approaching a friend or an actual friend? where you learn something new about them that changed your, not opinion, just your perspective. Like, oh, I thought you were this kind of person and now you're this. It doesn't have to be for, it doesn't have to be something bad. Like, oh, you killed a person? That changes my whole perspective. But like, is there anything that like, especially early in the friendship, maybe like you meet someone, the obvious thing for me is like, you're dating someone and then you see how they interact with their family or something. Like, I just, is there anything that jumps to mind for you?
00:58:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I feel like a couple examples, but I mean, that that's kind of one of the the great things I feel like about friendships is that you're constantly discovering more and more about each other. um What you discover, I feel like, tends to predict how long that friendship or relationship goes. Oh, oh see more on that. You know, like I mean, i did it just depends. like you know I would say probably a more recent example was with a friend that um I had been hanging out with because um friends of friends type of thing and didn't really know them that well and then got to know them a little bit better and just like
00:59:18
Speaker
sort of a stressful situation that wasn't like anything dire by any stretch of the imagination but seeing that person kind of snap into action in like a way where they took control of the situation and like my fear of it going to something more extreme was calmed because they were like you know what no my family's kind of crazy um i know how to take care of this and it was It was a girl's night. There was drinking to be had. And she she shut down a potential issue and was like, you need to apologize to that person right now because you're you're making a scene. And it was like, whoa, that was cool.
00:59:57
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, discovering badasses amongst your friends is always a really great perk. That's always a nice surprise. Yeah. uh i think when people learn about me that i either they didn't know i like star trek and learn that or they didn't know i like sports and learn that that flips the tape that flips the coin yeah so it's like it could be either way i think i've gained friends and lost friends for both things they're like oh you're a nets fan you're a nerd it seemed cool but okay uh and then also like i have a friend of mine from childhood who I didn't, who was like not a hippie. She was just like very cool and go with the flow. But then when she finally had a kid, she like told me, she's like, I'm going to become a tiger mom. I see so much value in that. Why? That was so funny. Just be like, who is this person I'm talking to? It was great. Her kids are great. She is not an abusive person like tiger mom. she it was like stuff It was like the media presentation of tiger mom. Like if you are, if you
01:00:55
Speaker
insist upon and force your kids to do certain things like you can get good kids out of this. Not what the actual uh... Tiger mom is where she's like actually abusive to her kids. not Not physically but like emotionally abusive turns out like my friend is not like that but she all of our kids are are great. They've turned out excellent. So I'm like, you want to be a tiger mom yeah so i'm like why? She's like, I want my kids to be good. I want them to be great. You're like, oh, idyllic tiger mom. Yeah, exactly. yeah i So something else you want to be a good mother. You want to be a Gene Roddenberry tiger mom. No, Gene Roddenberry tiger mom is a layoff.
01:01:46
Speaker
I only make demands when I'm drunk. The title is a reference. So this episode is called Mugatu Gumatu, which is a reference
01:02:00
Speaker
It's a reference to in Star Trek, the original series episode, A Private Little War, which introduces the Mugatu character, except it's not supposed to be Mugatu. It's supposed to be gu Gumatu in the script, but DeForest Kelly could not pronounce the word Gumatu, so it was changed to Mugatu. And then... I didn't know this! This was so fun! Shatner and DeForest Kelly would pronounce it differently.
01:02:22
Speaker
And so Michael McMahon said, Ben Rogers, who wrote the episode, just could not get over how nobody decided on the consistent way for the actors to pronounce Mugatu in that episode. Watching it again, we are digging into a new way, watching it with more than one person. Your brain reacts in a different way, finding things that are funny.
01:02:39
Speaker
because of how someone else observesing observes things. On top of that, you're realizing the production makes mistakes they made, like now they don't go back and reshoot things because maybe the actors were getting prickly about mispronouncing this made-up word. To us, it's something to celebrate rather than something to make fun of.
01:02:56
Speaker
Except they are making fun of it. They are, because literally everyone in the episode pronounces it differently every single line, like every single line too. Like even when they say it, we got to you the first time, the next line, they'll say it completely differently. It's so strange though, because they do kind of, they call it out a little bit at the beginning, but in other instances where this would happen, censors, right? That's like a yeah big joke. Yes.
01:03:21
Speaker
And that's not an inconsistent way of pronouncing it. They're just making fun of it. And they call, they hang, not a lantern on it, they hang a sun on it. They hang a star on it. You know, like that they're not obvious. And here they're like, it's like a subtle thing, but it's not because it happens in every scene multiple times. So I don't know. So just.
01:03:41
Speaker
I that makes me that makes me love it even more. Like I thought it was just a bit that they were running with, which, you know, as and it was a bit that yeah, no, I know. But like, i like, just as something as innocuous as saying one word wrong multiple times through several different characters, I think is a funny running gag. I had no idea the history behind it that like,
01:04:04
Speaker
this wasn't originally what it was supposed to be, and this is why these people couldn't pronounce it. And that makes it even more fun, like the fact that the the running bit has been going unintentionally for many years prior.
01:04:18
Speaker
And also in Zoolander, Will Ferrell's character, bad guy's character, is named Mugatu because that's one of Ben Stiller's favorite Star Trek episodes. That's why. That's a direct reference. Yeah. I remember. Ben Stiller loves the original series. it's what It always comes to mind when I see that word and I'm just like, oh, that's so weird.
01:04:38
Speaker
Wow, of course, of course, course connected. ah i'm I'm discovering so much more. Thank you, Brian. And because this is an animated spotlight, I feel compelled to to include this memory alpha node. So this episode marks the first appearance of a Kezinti in Star Trek canon since the animated series, the first season episode, the slates ah the slaver weapon, which we have not yet done.
01:05:02
Speaker
so That's one, because this episode establishes at least one, because he has joined Starfleet. They may not be members of the Federation, though, because they are also referenced by Riker in a Star Trek Picard season one episode. So it's I guess I guess we're still at odds. I don't remember the line. So that's it. So it could be a little. ah tendy situation going on here with this gazinti. But the Slaver Weapon animated series figured I should mention it. And then finally, this episode marks the first on-screen appearance of the Denobulan species in Star Trek Enterprise, including their defensive face puff, which Flox did in the season four episode Home.
01:05:42
Speaker
Yeah, that was something that I was just like, wait, who are these people? Well, for a second, I'm like, those are Cardassians. And then as soon as they did the face punch, I'm like, oh, they're tenobians. That I didn't know. I also thought they were Cardassians. And then they just ran away with their faces. Yeah. All right. Great moments. I have one. Oh, tell me.
01:06:03
Speaker
Well, I want to hear yours first. Well, I just, I do love, I love the bartender. I love that. Like we kind of turn into this like dark moment of just like, you want to hear about this guy at the end of the bar type of thing. I was also like, is he doing a Kennedy impression? That's what I'm asking. I'm like, what is the bit here? What are they going for with this character, the voice, the look? I don't know what's happening. i i don't I'm missing a reference and it's driving me nuts.
01:06:28
Speaker
I feel like there's got to be some kind of an interview or something behind the scenes that I just did not find before we recorded this episode. Me too. i'm so It's like searching for Nick Locarno's name. I'm like, it's driving me crazy here. but What is this?
01:06:41
Speaker
um yeah Yeah, um I also loved the very brief um who moment with, I think his name is Petingy, who's sort of like the Steve Irwin of Mugatus, but also Not at all. Like a dilettante. Yeah, he hasn't done the homework. He just read five books. He didn't actually come out with five books. And the fact that he dies real quick. I also look, I am a sucker for a sweet, happy ending. And I personally love the fact that the two nerds who aren't necessarily the action forward black ops style type characters of Rutherford and Boimler
01:07:27
Speaker
solve this whole issue with the Ferengi by saying, just monetize the Mugatu. And then we finally get the moment where the Ferengi are like, returning this place into a sanctuary. We now serve the Mugatu. And I was like, I don't believe it. But at the same time, I i really liked it. Oh, you're like,
01:07:48
Speaker
You're saying the flip side of like, what if Brian loved that part of the story? Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah. All right. I'm that opposite opinion. I'm going to hate it. I'm going to try to Jenga tile you into changing your mind. Go ahead and try it. Pulling things out. No, over the course of these grades. Oh, trust me, it's a weak stance. It's not a tower that can stand on its own. I understand that.
01:08:14
Speaker
But it's also kind of the beauty of animation where I'm like, I'm willing to believe that that actually became a planet of a sanctuary for these creatures. So i my one great moment for this episode, and I went and trying to find factoids and all that, you find reactions from Reddit or whatever. And I guess people didn't really like a lot of this episode. And there are cited many reasons why.
01:08:42
Speaker
And this is after my review. I didn't need them to tell me how to feel. I just was like, I need to know what honus what was the perception of this character. Couldn't find it. But I did find that people were turned off by some of the intense violence and sexual stuff that we'll get into in in a bit, I'm sure. Or we will, because I'm insisting that we do in a second. But the violence part, it kicks off with ononbojitsu, which i I cannot remember seeing in and the second season of TNG here, where Riker fights his dad. And maybe there's been other references. I'm completely blanking like Nicola Carno's name. But Boymar and Rutherford saying that they've been practicing at midnight because
01:09:24
Speaker
Mariner beat the shit out of them. So like, we're going to get her this time. Yeah. And then all they do is awaken the beast. Oh, my God. She beats. She hits Boiler so hard. He pukes. yeah That was the thing that a bunch of Star Trek fans were like, I don't know. That's too much. And I'm sorry. Hitting someone so hard that they puke is great. It fits for Boimler. I think it fits with everything. We've like we've been building Mariner Justice this on the holodeck. All of this tracks perfectly. yeah And the fact that they're they're immediately regretting their decision, I thought was great. I thought it was a great moment, a great character moment. And like the maximization of, this is a sitcom, this is a cartoon. like I just thought it worked great. So that was one of them. And then we didn't you didn't mention it, and I'm not mentioning it. And I almost want to say it's a bad scene.
01:10:10
Speaker
But I want to just put it here because we need to talk about it. The Mugatu sex scene. Dude, yeah. So that was, it was, I rewatched it and I was like, oh, right. They like don't, but they do show them banging it out ah several times. And I, you know, it feels like, you again, they're testing water with ah how much like Rick and Morty they can go. um Yeah. I think that's one of them. I also felt like we don't have any jokes here. And this is, this is a,
01:10:42
Speaker
along the lines of a first joke. Not like we need to go back and replace this, but like this is the best they could get. First draft. Yeah, this is like as far as we could get with this story based on how we plotted it out. um It's like, it's just there and the fact that it extends into like the voyeurous part of it where it's like one of them likes to watch.
01:11:05
Speaker
Right. And then Rebs his horn. Yeah, it could be funny. could like its There's a lot of stuff in this episode that's like, it could be funny. And i just the only part where I feel like they actually got there was the cold open because that's something that could have lived in any other episode. yeah You know what I mean? like It's just a cold open and it makes... it's The purest sense of a cold open is everyone doing a bit in character. And they certainly are. The only one that was missing was Rutherford using his modification to do something, to try to do something, right? And that it would have been ineffective. But that was it. And it still feels like it works. This is exactly what you said. It's like testing the boundaries. It's not on story. It's not adding to what's going on.
01:11:50
Speaker
So it's just like, OK, it's just kind of there as a gag. And this is the gag itself funny? I don't think it. I mean, it was it was unnecessary. I think we all knew that. it i I had a like a little note where it felt like this was sort of almost a filler episode and I realized that like sometimes my brain watching a show kind of needs a filler episode every now and then to just like, just for the fuck of it, let's try this out, you know?
01:12:21
Speaker
and i i had ah I had an interesting balance beam with that. um I will say that like one of my other favorite moments was sort of the the come to Jesus that ah Rutherford, Boimler, and Mariner all have of just kind of like their placement on the ship and what why they do certain things the way they do certain things. um So like Boimly and Rutherford are super nerds, but then they kind of get obsessed with how badass and mysterious Mariner is. And then Mariner is also putting out these lies in order to sort of keep this facade up because she's not felt comfortable enough to let anybody in in a friendship situation. When it's kind of bookended with a couple of Mugatu banging it out,
01:13:09
Speaker
It's hard. It's hard to be like, yeah, no, this is a solid, like, really great character arc episode. Yeah. ah they I'm okay. I'm okay with sex jokes, by the way. I understand that people are not. No, no, no. i but like I'm doing the purred happily. yeah yeah I'm doing the purred happily though. It had the cadence of a joke.
01:13:29
Speaker
But I wasn't registering it as like actually funny. And so in that sense, it just felt like. Yeah. And I have I have thoughts on how they might have been able to make it stronger, like not just that joke, but the sort of this whole storyline, because it is something that the ending actually really suggested.
01:13:50
Speaker
to me though, but real quick, something you said, like, what was the name of the game that they were playing at the beginning of negotiation? No. Diplomacy? Diplomacy. I think it was diplomacy. Yeah. Diplomath. Yes. Diplomath. Yes. Oh, God. um It's just kind of funny and dirty and very nerdy. Yep.
01:14:09
Speaker
I also love the fact that ah we get Mariner in the end playing the game, and yeah she' just kicking their ass and they can't let her know this she hates hearing all the explanations of everything, and she's like, I don't care. Yeah. Best trek tropes. I have a few. Okay.
01:14:27
Speaker
Oh, i'm go first. yeah This is a tractor factor. Jesus, why didn't anyone think of that sooner? When they're tractoring this shuttle, and as a scam, he self-destructs it, but the captain's like, what happened? I said, to use the tractor beam. And she goes, it was, sir, it's the lowest tractor factor. And I'm like, Jesus, I can't believe Gene Roddenberry's rolling in his grave right now, going like, we didn't think of that. Tractor factor. Tractor factor is amazing. I love it. ah So putting a force factor on the tractor beam, something that was I didn't know was missing until I heard it. So thank you. I'm getting dangerously close to simply putting shacks.
01:15:06
Speaker
The character has a trope. He's like a shark. He just moves forward. like He's constantly just going forward. He's eating the dung. he's walking right He walks right into the trouble with barely a pause and he leads with his fist. He's just like, man of action. yes Yeah. well and And the fact that they also think that he might be part of Black Ops as well. I'm pretty sure he is, I think.
01:15:29
Speaker
And then I put as a best trick to up the score, because I actually think in both episodes, it goes pretty hard. Lots of callbacks to previous tracks, but it sounds good on its own. And I kind of feel like it gives this episode more life in the scripted. So I thought music, music and Star Trek are very important. So best trick joke for me. Any for you?
01:15:48
Speaker
I would say the thing that brings me to Star Trek every time is when we can reason a logical and peaceful solution to things. And the fact that we get that with Boimler and Rutherford at the very end, just based on the fact that they play a stupid game called diplomacy. Diplomath. Diplomath, sorry. Diplomath. But like the end is like, no one's really satisfied, but we've reached a compromise. That's right.
01:16:15
Speaker
And then Mariner chimes in with them at the very end. Good company. Like half-heartedly. I found that very Trekkie and very tropey, but like, I loved that. I thought it was super sweet. um Yeah, it kind of puts a bandaid on an open wound, but at the same time,
01:16:33
Speaker
um it It solves it for for the likes of this. um i i i I love and hate the Ferengi so much and I do like that we finally get the Ferengi in their full tropiness of just being sort of these scheming, skeezy type people. um But then also we get them on the flip side where they're like, we're goingnna we're going to do this for good and basically just kind in their outpost colony i don't know Yeah, but see, like, this is leads into the worst Trek tropes for me is that it's the mixed messaging, because it's sort of like the times where they invoke the prime directive to not do something, whereas like a blah, blah, blah for why they do do something. And it's,
01:17:19
Speaker
So here, the Mugatu weren't brought to this planet by the frangi. They're not indigenous.
Critique: Ferengi and Mugatu Storytelling
01:17:23
Speaker
We don't learn how they these Mugatu arrived there. ah I'm a little annoyed that Freeman was so down on this issue. of Like, why do we keep getting these missions of, I'm like, that's andm kind of interesting, actually. Yeah, I'm like, that actually seems kind of interesting. Because not only do you get to study, like,
01:17:40
Speaker
solve it, you also get to study it. But here they're not interested in studying it, nor are they interested in solving it. Like how did these Mugatu arrive here? see So the Franky are taking advantage of the fact that these Mugatu were left here, correct?
01:17:54
Speaker
i As far as I can tell, yeah. And so they're poaching them and selling their parts and separating the families. And it's all very sad. And then they devise, Boylan Rutherford's plan is devised as building a zoo. We build a zoo. but We bought a zoo, or in this case, a preserve. but And to preserve what? Because it still compromises in violation of Federation law, the poaching of like They were assigned there to relocate them. That's the that's the animal control is to get them off of this planet where they're not indigenous. And there's no examination of like, well, how are they surviving? Has this particular group actually adapted? And so they actually have to be that's what's missing for to explain why the Ferengi staying and having their change of heart.
01:18:40
Speaker
works is like actually these Mugatu have uh they've adapted to their environment so like the one that's watching they could have been uh mixed with some of the native species or something or like they live there and so that is to me the part that's like i don't buy the turn of the Ferengi having this change apart because it's more profitable and the fact that he says we're gonna serve them i'm like that doesn't makes sense as like a pure hearted thing. It doesn't follow the profit motive. It doesn't make sense with these characters we just met. It doesn't actually, when you, when you proceed that line with like, we're so we're building a gift shop. So you need to move this dung. It's like the heart that they put in feels very forced. And so that to me is why it doesn't really work. It's again, along the same lines of all the times where we're like, well, we can't change the course of this comet. It'll destroy a planet.
01:19:32
Speaker
but this asteroid because it'll destroy a planet that that's just their fate we can't interfere and it's just like no no no the the the natural order is a spaceship was built and is flying by just at the time that an asteroid is coming to hit them you kind of have an obligation if you can to change its course But the point is, is like I didn't buy the turn. And so to me, it just is a muddled mess of what are we going for. Like the right idea. Can you convince the fringy to stop killing these creatures or selling them and profit off of their existence? That makes sense to me that they've used the diplomat game to show them how it's more profitable. That would change the fringy's mind. But it doesn't justify. it doesn't
01:20:13
Speaker
solidify why the the Mugatu are here and the Federation is willing to not suddenly relocate them. That's all. Fair enough. ah Originally, I was like, did the Ferengi put them there? he's this like ah It's just very confusing. I'm going to be honest. I have a prediction here that ah you kind of have proven wrong, but my prediction was that you were not going to like Captain Freeman in these first two episodes, much like you didn't like Captain Freeman in the first two episodes of season one because of sort of her lackluster and non-involvement in all of these issues.
01:20:47
Speaker
um And I feel like it kind of speaks also to the point of like, where like yeah, we didn't hit the mark fully on this episode. I still find it a very fun and sweet episode. It feels like they wrapped it up because they didn't have enough time. And it was way more complicated and an issue than they really wanted it it to be when they weren't really wanted all of the focus to be on the characters.
01:21:08
Speaker
um So I agree. It's not the most logical episode. I will say that, especially within the Star Trek universe. It does give us a little bit more character type stuff. But I do think that had we had Captain Freeman arcing a little bit, a little bit more involved, we maybe would have had a little bit better of a solve in all of this stuff. It does feel pretty I don't know. It feels like we've sacrificed some of logical plot for jokes, like a couple of Bugatti banging it out on a tree stump. Which again, like I was trying to say, like if you show that they've adapted to this environment and that could that scene could go towards that when Rutherford, when Boimler and Rutherford escaped, that could be like Boimler's like, this is interesting. And we got to use metabolism, blah, blah, blah. Shouldn't then get there, whatever. Like, then you're tying it all together in a way that tracks with lowered X, which tracks with Star Trek. It tracks with the ending that you set up for the episode. And instead, it really is just like, and then, and then, and then, and then, not because of, and then, but it's just the and then. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Which is why it feels a little bit more filler-y to me than the most of the episodes, but we still get- I also think it makes it less funny.
01:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, well, i think but that's because the jokes aren't earned. And that's that's really the heart of it is that when when it kind of just becomes a couple of characters having sex in the background, it's like, OK, I also am i I love sex jokes. I think they're hysterical. But when they're not earned, it's it's a little bit like, all right, sure, this feels a little gratuitous for gratuity sake.
01:22:58
Speaker
Yeah, and it seems like in other episodes, they would have had Boimler maybe bond with one of them or like like accidentally name them. Like, Rutherford's like, they say you shouldn't name them because then you'll become emotionally attached. And then Boimler has got the name for the all of them. oh And then he's like, Puffy, no, why are you doing that? Like, it just seems that there is an emotional disconnect that I don't think actually added to what we know about these characters. Anyway, um any worse other worst trick tropes for you?
01:23:25
Speaker
ah it's It's not an actual Trek joke, but just i i her I am not a fan a of puking, personally. um Especially as we, like, every show we watch, I feel like I have to turn away. I don't know why, like, just showing someone puking does weird ick me out.
01:23:44
Speaker
um i But also, the fact that Shaxx ate the poop in order to know how fresh it was, I was like, what even is this? why Yeah, it's a gag for gag sake, but I like it felt a little bit like Shaxx and the fact that ah i I mean, this becomes a taste opinion, I guess, because it's like, it's disgusting. And then the fact that they keep doing it like he keeps doing it. Right, right. It's like, is that telling us more about the character or is this adding to the joke?
01:24:16
Speaker
It's that's the issue and I think it's a taste thing. I have no issue with that's why I just said Shaxx is a trope is almost like the length he's going to go. I didn't specifically cite the dung. I'm just like, I like the idea that he's constantly moving. a street He's just moving forward. it Yeah, and I don't mind that either. But I respect that people have sensitivity to puke. But like the scene in Team America where he's just puking out all the darkness. I mean, that's one of my favorite scenes. I cry laughing. It's great. So What is it about boys and puke? Y'all love it when that happens on screen. Like puke and poop. Y'all love it. The thing is, I think it comes down to this, at least for me with the Boimler thing, the idea of hitting someone so hard that they expel a Bali fluid is actually just a funny idea. Even if you like simplify it, if you hit someone so hard, they fart. Like just you can do it. They're just things that are just funny. And that is in funny, like,
01:25:12
Speaker
the idea of hitting someone that hard, that like bile comes up. It's just great. It's just an idea that you're like, I wish I could hit someone that hard. It's just ridiculous too. And it is and it's just running because it's Boimler. Yes, and it's Boimler. Exactly. It's all these things. And she's like breaking the stick when she doesn't have to. She's so over the top. It's ridiculous. No, I respect that people don't like the bodily fluid jokes. And especially when they mismatch it with Star Trek, i can write that makes perfect sense to me. But that's why I'm like throwing a flag on the on the store, the grounded stuff sure of like, well, the grounded stuff doesn't even earn us the right to go into crazy town with the jokes. At least for me. For you, it seems to.
01:25:55
Speaker
but I mean, no, but it it makes it makes sense because it's just like, well, at least we have this, like in my mind. And I don't like see it. You don't like that. i's Because I in the past have done development for writers and I'm like, I see what you're trying to get away with here. But the reason why your the script is landed on my desk is because we're all recognizing there's something missing or incorrect here. But that that's where you're coming from the writer's perspective. And I'm coming from the actor's perspective. Or I was like, oh, that must have been a fun thing to do. You know, like thats it's really at the base of it. That's where those are coming from. I will say one storyline that I thought was the worst trek trope that we haven't even touched on was just Tendi's whole thing of trying to get everybody to go to their doctor's appointment.
Subplots and Humor: Tendi's Medical Mission
01:26:40
Speaker
um Which I was like this is such a tendie storyline She always has to do these like really random like make sure that this is all taken care of but um at the end of the day I The doctor to Anna which forgive me. I have been saying wrong. I for some reason thought it was on it Yes, Donna, and I keep saying to Vanna for some reason um So forgive me if I was correcting you the wrong. You're only doing these shows once a month. It's not on you to get the to get the details. It's not me. But yeah, like i like I feel like there's so much more to Tendi, and then we just sent her on these scale omissions. I do think it was funny that Jet was on the list. So the captain could just order people to go to their physicals. It's like not that big of a deal that it's a task. But it's also like, why do you have to scan them? like ah we the whole Yeah, the whole setup is like that
01:27:34
Speaker
Dr. Ta'ana does not want to do hers because she's a cat and cats hate going to the vets. Waka Waka. So funny. So I was like, I wasn't really rocking with that. Just like we just had the episode where it's like she needed a box to sleep in. Right. And she didn't have her special box.
01:27:49
Speaker
But let's be honest, she's a doctor and doctors are notoriously horrible. That works both ways. That is an excellent counterpoint of like, well, not only is she a cat. She's also a doctor. I feel like that was the kind of hidden joke within it, where it's just like, doctor heal myself in a way. But then I have a note here that's like,
01:28:10
Speaker
Dr. T'Ana is the most Dr. Cat that ever Dr. Catted. Because both of the like worst traits of a cat and a doctor is like, okay, I need you to be somewhere at a certain time. Yeah. Please. Right. So the most cosplayable character or moment, I put Patingi.
01:28:30
Speaker
ah Um, then I would definitely want to be in a Mugatu suit and then just chop your head off. Um, well that was my, so my honorable mention was like the gooning Mugatu. Yes. So yeah. If anyone doesn't know what I mean by that, don't look it up.
01:28:49
Speaker
ah But when the Mugatu who's rubbing himself, when his eyes go crossed the other way, that is, there's an internet thing with that. And it's depressing that I know what it means, so. Gotcha. That's all I'm gonna say about that. Dear listener. Now it's time for the line must be joined. Great lines.
01:29:12
Speaker
Okay. um Ah, keep your pips on, Billups. I don't know. Okay, so I think it's Anthony and Tomniak.
01:29:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think you got it. i think i I have heard it said more than I have said it out loud, ah because he is a very funny comedian. He's on Comedy Bang Bang all the time. A hilarious improviser, and yes, he does ah an incredible Trump imppress impersonation. If I never have to hear that voice ever again in my life, I will be happy. but It'll be huge. and It'll be the huge. I hate you.
01:29:51
Speaker
Even though like even though just like the wording I'm just like, oh no, I hear it and I hate it and I want to punch my brain ah He's very funny if I if in my questioning the the thrust of this character Suggested to you that I did not know this is a funny human being I apologize because I know very talent funny I don't get this character, and it's not a problem with the show. It's a problem with me. They're referencing something. I think it's also going towards your nerd logic, because it's like, make it make sense, ah which I totally understand. Well, everything else is a reference to something on this goddamn show. So what is this reference to? I know. And like, trust me, there is definitely, I had that thought in my head too, but I unfortunately rewatched this episode this morning as opposed to a couple of weeks ago, which I was doing with the other episode. um
01:30:39
Speaker
But yes, ah keep your pips on, Bill. These Mugutus are dangerous and their genitals are sensitive to phaser fire, the Shax line, which you just threw out there out of nowhere. right Of course, their genitals would be sensitive to that. But I found it interesting and sort of foreboding. Anything with shacks was just unreal and hysterical.
01:31:08
Speaker
um my So these are not necessarily ah funny lines, but I just loved the moment, as I've said many times before in this episode. with Boimler, Rutherford, and Mariner and um the fact that they thought it was weird that a badass like you wouldn't be friends with guys like us. And then Mariner is saying, you guys have to be the badass super spies now um when she gets captured by the Ferengi. And I just I thought it was a super sweet moment where it was just like, you gotta do it. I mean, she kind of does the thing that she's very good at, which is she's getting pulled away and she's saying a line as she fades out into the background.
01:31:47
Speaker
But then they have to walk in with their shark tank presentation. Yeah, exactly. Which I thought was hysterical because it looks like a bazooka. Well, it's from arena. That's what that's the device that Kirk makes to shoot the mineral. Right. um And then, uh, we do have superpowers, maybe not in here, but in here. Our skin. No ah brains. Oh, which felt like.
01:32:15
Speaker
Brains and cider skin. Yeah, yes, it's cider skin. Yeah, I thought was potentially a improvised line um by Eugene Cordero, because it felt very much like something Eugene would improvise. But who knows? Great line. Mine was I had to and they were Boimler saying put the gloves on, put the gig gloves on. when they see me about out of Yeah, that's great. And then Patinky. See, I'm like one of their own.
01:32:50
Speaker
Patinky alone was one of the greatest just random cameo characters. thing off yeah Yeah, it's like a safari planet they're on, I guess and in a way and like Yeah, it's just funny that we've got the denobulans there, right? It's like there there's a lot going on in that planet. That's like there was an interesting avenue that they could have just five degrees more leaned in towards to maybe earn a lot of what they're trying to do. So, um you know, if now you're making me think like he's like, there's this ah adventurers
01:33:26
Speaker
Guild. Checklist that you could do and like, you know, we found the dung and we got to see them mate. You know what I mean? Like something that could have added to any of the moments that they, that they had to make it anyway. Um, and all right, now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great art.
01:33:46
Speaker
I didn't have a whole lot for this one. um who I did. I thought the imagery of the um the tractor beam just breaking a ship apart was hilarious. Good timing on the tractor beam, him the way he lurches. I put the Mugatu Stampede sequence. Oh, yeah. For some reason, because it looks cooler. yeah But you get a lot of people in shadows, a lot of silhouettes.
01:34:12
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, it felt very like sort of spy ops type of. Yes. Yeah. A little Jurassic Park and all that stuff. So that worked. The one other thing I had was just the shadow that appears on Onis's head every time he would lean in and tell a dark story about Meredith. Like, the lighting changed. I thought that was hysterical. There's no reason for it. I mean, is it Quint from Jaws? That's what they're kind of going for? Maybe that's what it was. Maybe that's what it was. But I just I also love that we also have some kind of purveyor of the bar that keeps yelling at him and saying that he's the worst bartender.
01:34:51
Speaker
It's like, what are you doing? If you don't want to be a bartender, don't work here! I know. Alright, would this be a fun Hollow novel to play out? I'd put yes. I would definitely say down with the Mugatus yes. A Hollow novel trying to make sure everybody gets their doctor checkup.
01:35:12
Speaker
Well, even that would be kind of, I mean, it'd be a side quest. I'm like, is that an unenjoyable one, especially since you just have to scan them very quickly? I don't know. I mean, it could be fun. but more fun than walking in the doors like you would have been doing had you played the last episode as an the adventure. um Which is now making me think of like, so there yeah there's a game, I don't know how much of a gamer you are, but there is a game called Endless Ocean, which is basically you going into the ocean and just discovering new fauna, new fish, all those sorts of things, and you just scan them and read about them. And now I'm like, I think it would be kind of cool to have a Star Trek game.
01:35:53
Speaker
So it's underwater no man's land? or Essentially. no okay yeah What part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? More to do with the Ferengi negotiations and then also implementing um diploma.
01:36:14
Speaker
diploma matthew I put I guess they are teaching the students about Section 31. Sure. Section 31 is not supposed to be known. Like it's just not that's the and like we didn't find out about it until Deep Space Nine. And even then it wasn't like a thing that got out. It's like Cisco was like, are you sure about this? And it's like this is in the Federation Charter. Like they were, they were killing people for knowing about it. And no, it's just like the obsidian order or the Tal Shiar just.
01:36:48
Speaker
People know about it. It's just a thing. They're not supposed to. So especially a lower decker, I can't think of anyone less. It's like the lower deckers don't know what's going on on their ship, but they know what's happened in Star Trek. right It's just a thing that drives me constantly insane. about it's like I get it. You're trying to like say you are canon and you exist in the 24th century adventures and yet You will break the reality if it sells a joke, and it's just like, so you are a gag fest. That just tries me nuts. But clearly, this is a canon show. In terms of this episode, I would say maybe another great lesson for Starfleet is just the um the great expanse and detriment that a rumor can have.
01:37:35
Speaker
so Rumors of Section 31. Rumors of people working for Black Ops. rumor like What does a rumor really do for you? That's right. I'm sure there's a diplomat equivalent of like rumor math and you can see the statistical outlay. That would be a funny Spock or Data calculation to see.
01:37:58
Speaker
They have, you know, it's like research indicates that one one fabrication, fabricated story in a sample size of a thousand crew members could spread as quickly as two days, yes. i I feel like there should be a Rings of Power crossover called Ruminor. So it's just- I don't know that reference because you're now in the fantasy elven realm. No, explain it because a lot of people like fantasy.
01:38:24
Speaker
ah you just like there There is in a place called Numenor that is about to be completely destroyed ah ah and rumor mills um play in a great part into the destruction of Numenor.
01:38:39
Speaker
Oh, so a bunch of people talk shit about this place and then people take actionable, they take actionable goals. to that like It's so it's so Lord of the Rings. There's so many plot lines and there's so many people. It's also we're in like one of the first ages with Rings of Power. So I feel like it's just.
01:38:57
Speaker
that it So the rumor is like they've cut back on a meal in this town, like culturally, and they're like, we must destroy this town for daring to reduce the number of reasons. It's Sauron, the lord of, you know, who of ah fault of lies and deception has played into this town and ah through various evil entities.
01:39:19
Speaker
um and basically dethroned a queen that was rightfully queen and was numerous times shown to be the true queen and then some other guy takes over. So yeah. So you've got people fighting for the the the news setup yep and you've got people fighting them who've been like, you stole this, this is unearned and we are here to right the wrong. Yeah.
01:39:45
Speaker
that okay all right so like a january six it's like a january sixth is that it there you go honestly kind of yeah i think that was i'm sure that was their intention all right so trek marry or kill mugatu gumatu All right, this is a very soft trek for me.
Episode Review: 'Mugatu Gumatu'
01:40:04
Speaker
um
01:40:07
Speaker
i'm not I'm not ready to kill it because I do still think that we have some good character arcs. um ah Yes, there's a lot about this episode that logically doesn't quite track.
01:40:18
Speaker
um but I still think that we get enough in this that it's fun, it's exploring, it's revealing more about Mariner, it's revealing more about where they all are in the grand scheme of Star Trek. But yeah, I am a soft Trek on this one. Are you sure I can't get you into a soft kill? Into a kill zone? Can I offer you a soft kill? Show me your reasons.
01:40:49
Speaker
ah In the history of Star Trek, the idea was that 30% of them are our amazing. 30% of them are whatever, bad, that's kill. And 40% of them are or good, they're tricks. And I don't think that this one needs to be in that 40%. I think it's fine to even put these ones where maybe, I mean, I liked I had a great moment. I really thought the cold open was, I liked it. I thought it was funny. Yeah, I thought it was funny. And everything you said about the emotional stuff, I'm like, yeah, it was there. But like we've discussed, like, was it earned? Was it interesting? I think in the previous episode, which we didn't love, we didn't love the previous episode, but I think we both thought all that's kind of organic, the tendi and the mariner stuff, and we're learning about them.
01:41:37
Speaker
And then also playing on Rutherford's actual anxieties is about something that happened to him. Here, Boimler and Rutherford are paired, but we don't really actually get anything between them, maybe because they're dudes. And you know, it's not about them, it's about how they relate to Mariner. I don't know, I guess I'm saying like having seen enough Lord X, I've seen it too better. And I think the jokes in this one don't really actually land that hard and I think if they do, they're kind of just jokes for the sake of jokes. And again, they've done better. So there have been better episodes. There are, you know, in a way that it's like this one doesn't need to be one people watch again if they see. So in that sense, it's like because a kill very rarely will I be like, do not watch this one. Right. Right. Star Trek Picard season two. Do not watch.
01:42:27
Speaker
it was It received a California tax credit. Everyone's fine. like you You're not like depriving anyone by not watching. We're not we're not not paying a person who wrote the original character. That's right. It's fine if you miss it. It's barely used in season three anyway. It's true. Most of the people who made it don't want it.
01:42:48
Speaker
be reminded of it if they can help it. Fair enough. I'm just saying like they're it's the unfrosted of episodes. um I enjoyed unfrosted. Did you really? Oh, I'm so glad. I would give that a trek. Would you really? I would trek unfrosted. Very soft trek on it. um But not a kill. Not a kill. yeah ah Though I do think, Brian, that you have convinced me to potentially slide a little lower to a very light, little toe touch of a kill. to I don't think this is something that people need to go back and rewatch for anything
01:43:25
Speaker
necessary like if you're a completionist you're gonna watch it yeah and i'm just like in the canon of star trek it's forgettable it really i mean he it honestly is because like when i rewatch it this morning i was like oh right what was this about yeah and people might want to hold on to it because it's got the mugatu sex and whatever but like i don't think i'm saying that that that's the reason it's It's a it's a kill. I just think it's not funny. It's not as good a story as they usually do. And I and and i and i agree with you ah at that point as well. It's also like not something that I want to cosplay any element of. that It's not something that i I want like a frame of it hanging on my wall. Like I don't want the two Mugatu's going to town on each other, you know, framed and up on the wall. Like I love that sell. You know, like there are definitely solid points that you have made where it's like,
01:44:17
Speaker
All right. Yeah. So soft kill, a our softest possible kill. A soft toe touch of a kill, I will admit, which I think is a big deal for me because I know i i don't kill these episodes. So I knew coming in, but I also feel like I have you. You're on the line. You're wavering too. I am. I am. um that That sail is flapping in the wind and we can't tighten the ropes anymore. All right. So
Closing: Social Media and Future Content
01:44:50
Speaker
soft kill. If anyone strongly disagrees, you can always contact us on social media at checkmarykpod or email checkmarykpod at gmail dot.com next month.
01:45:00
Speaker
Katie, I'm roping you back in to do the next two episodes of Lower Decks like second season, uh, which you can find out when we run it, but also you can hear Katie other times. It's not just on Trek Mary Kill. Where can they hear you, Katie? You can always search for me all over the internet. I'm Katie Hampton. Um, you can always look at.
01:45:19
Speaker
me up at L Sassy Pants, E L S A S S Y P A N T S. Um, you can hear me weekly on my podcast, napping through happy hour where we talk real life, real drama in real time. You can find out about how I sliced my finger off from last week. Um, which one is an important one. It's actually, it's, it's healing quite well. Oh my God. Her healing factor is incredibly strong. Yeah. It's like a real dead pool over there.
01:45:44
Speaker
I mean, I honestly feel like I had a little bit of a Deadpool moment this week because i like things are growing back and I'm not completely marred, which is great. um We'll see about my nail. But speaking of Deadpool, you can always check out the Geekscape Book Club. I will be on their LA Comic Con podcast talking about Deadpool versus the Marvel Universe and Deadpool kills the Marvel Universe and how it relates to Deadpool and Wolverine. But yeah, just look me up online. I'm around.
01:46:14
Speaker
All right. Oh, and then next week for our regular episodes, Kristen's going to jump in. We're going to interrupt our Star Trek Discovery season five run of episodes because the next two weeks we will be doing Voyager episodes that actually lend themselves very much to the next episode of Star Trek Discovery. So I wanted to mix those in for reasons I will explain later. But Star Trek Lord X, Star Trek Discovery,
01:46:40
Speaker
They're all part of Star Trek canon, whether they are a Trek, Merry, or Kill episode, Katie. Thanks for coming with me on that journey for this one to two. We had a Trek and a Kill, which is a pretty normal distribution of Star Trek. Yeah, fair enough. Katie's like, fine, I guess. When you have so little episodes, it's hard to kill one.
01:47:01
Speaker
this is saying This is being said from someone who has not seen much of Star Trek Voyager, which I think would change it too. The ones that have a full slate of 30 plus episodes, there's plenty of room to kill, I understand. All right, so until next week and next month, TMK out.
01:47:31
Speaker
Returning for this month's animated spotlight, I creep myself out there. I love this. Returning for this month's animated spotlight is star of stage and screen and co-host of the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast. It's Katie Hampton. Katie, welcome back. Hello, thank you so much. I think we might have to take that again because my cat's about to throw up. Oh, the Xbox. Oh, boy. Come on, buddy.