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DS9: "Past Tense, Part II" (s3e12)
111 Plays2 months ago
A HASTY RESOLUTION? Sisko takes the place of Gabriel Bell and his plan to restore history goes off basically without a hitch. Is that the most compelling version of the story? Meanwhile, as part of the Star Trek Predicts... Today! theme month, Bryan & Kristen look at what the second part of this episode gets right about September 2024 and how it misses. Gavin Newsom references abound -- but also, how strong is your mid-1990s Emmys trivia? There's also some discussion of Errol Flynn and why he's referenced by a character who couldn't possibly care about an old famous actor.
The grades begin at (30:51).
Stick around afterwards for some random Errol Flynn facts.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Star Trek Predictions
00:00:00
Speaker
This week on Trek Mary Kill Flappers, hippies, McMuffins Next! Trapped in Earth's past I don't wear on the same side here Think again? Cisco's mission is to save the future You don't know what any of this is about, do you? But in order to keep history from being altered Those hostages aren't going anywhere until we get what we want We move in at 0500 Will he be forced to sacrifice himself?
00:00:31
Speaker
on an all-new episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine.
Podcast and Theme Introduction
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Kristin. Welcome to Trek Mary Kill, a podcast committed to getting Star Trek's history right by deciding which episodes are good, which are great, and which are losers. Our theme this month is Star Trek's big predictions about our real world.
Deep Space Nine's Predictions and Reality
00:01:01
Speaker
Last week we discussed part one of Deep Space Nine's past tense saga, which tackled homelessness in the US predicting a riot on September 3rd 2024 in San Francisco in response to this crisis. Well, here we are, Kristen, on September 3rd, 2024. And while that prediction did not come to pass, I'd say the conditions for it definitely are hanging in the air.
00:01:27
Speaker
Um, I mean, at the time of this episode of that, this episode being filmed, unemployment was not great. Started to be on an upswing, but yeah, the idea of like, no one can find jobs was like certainly a recent memory. That's right. We were full almost two years away from that very funny 1996 democratic convention clip of ah all of them dancing to Macarena.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. The good times had not yet started. We were pre-Montreal. The good times hadn't started to roll yet, but. But in our 2024 time period, on August 8th, so a little bit less than a month ago, California Governor Gavin Newsom did a photo op in Mission Hills, California, here in the South, Southern California.
00:02:14
Speaker
ah He would did a photo op in a homeless encampment sweep, wearing jeans and a t-shirt, taking a lot of effort to toss away people's belongings. Yeah. after i get it I get into this later in the grades too, by the way.
00:02:28
Speaker
Anyway, ah they they were wrong about the the prediction was wrong that we don't have these sanctuary districts and there's not a riot related to them. I think we're actually much, much sicker than the world predicted, to be perfectly honest. I think the only reason why something like the sanctuary district never came to pass and won't ever come to pass is that someone would have to pay for it. And maybe yeah the idea of anyone giving up valuable San Francisco real estate just to put a bunch of like homeless people in it.
Societal Issues and Storytelling in DS9
00:03:02
Speaker
Absolutely not. Yeah. I mean, we've got the private prison complex and that seems to be very profitable. finally Didn't we finally in California outlaw those though? I don't recall actually and I didn't do enough research. so I believe some jurisdictions they're becoming illegal. We'll see what happens once the cops start really brutalizing
00:03:24
Speaker
the unhoused, thanks to the Supreme Court. And I think the private prisons had had the police guard or the ah prison guard union against them because they weren't like a union shop. Right. So that's fucked up. Now, that was union people now that everything be a private prison. That's what private industry is all about. It's like, get rid of get around the unions. That's what tech. That's what the tech boom really was. How do we develop technology to get around the unions? Yeah, but but ah going against the prison guard union is tough. Yeah. And also, I've allegedly pretty dangerous, like personally pretty dangerous. I would imagine all police type like if you get thrown in prison and you happen to be an enemy of the
00:04:12
Speaker
the prison guards, it's not gonna go well for you. um But i think I think that is what really, I mean, i mean there was public outcry, but it's like, well, police and but prison guards are against them too. Everyone's like, oh, yes, of course.
00:04:29
Speaker
yeah so This episode's premise, the prediction is that if you put a human face on it, instead of just leaving it to an abstraction, there are homeless people and they're all put away and I don't have to think about it. But if you make it real and visceral, that that will change turn the tide. And I think the episode, because it's television, it does it a little too neat.
00:04:52
Speaker
And I think I still, I'm not willing to say that it's like too naive. I just think that there's no way to have predicted in 1994 when they made this episode that the world would be quite the way that it is now, uh, where it would be the exact opposite, the exact opposite, which we'll talk about later, uh, past tense part two is the 12th episode of deep space nine's third season. It debuted in syndication January 15th, 1995.
00:05:17
Speaker
Teleplay by Ira Stephen Bear, written with Renee Echeverria from a story by Ira Bear and Robert Hewitt-Wolf, directed by Jonathan Frakes. Our boy. That's right. Memory Alpha describes it with history itself at stake. Sisko must risk it all to see that the Bell riots reached their inevitable conclusion, even if it means sacrificing his life. ah This episode was almost certainly an Emmy submission. I think Jonathan Frakes does a very good job.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yes, and and I'm sure with ah with all the moving parts and all everything that's going on, because you got stuff on the ship, you get stuff in the backlot and ah having to direct that fucking ham, Frank military. woof Uh, I forgot to mention what memory Alpha doesn't tell you is that in order to make sure history goes according to plan Dax, who finally reunites with Cisco and Bashir has to set them up with internet access so that a sampling of the people in the sanctuary can give their testimonies online and put a few human face on the tragedy. Like I was saying, the cranky old guard who was an asshole in part one is even more of an asshole in part two and seems very committed to maintaining yeah the status quo. Yeah, hes he is.
00:06:29
Speaker
sir He's probably making $20,000 a year and he's like he's too dedicated to the job. Mm hmm. But I think what the episode this episode was more about doing was sitting in, putting a face on everybody, every part of this issue. So like, yeah, this grunt guy and Vin is the guard's name. He does have a moment towards the end where Cisco's like, you don't get it. You know what I mean? Like in where we're getting as many facets of this um as the writers think they can genuinely, you know, genuinely portray through a character.
00:07:03
Speaker
You know, there's all different types of people who are in this, you know, who are unhoused. What are they thinking? What are they trying to get through each day? There are people who are just like managing the crisis. They're just trying to do their jobs. Then there's like the government level, which we don't actually get a lot of dealing with. And then we kind of get the media side of things, which brave briefly gets touched on. It's trying to tell a very human story. It's like very raw Star Trek, but like with no frills.
00:07:31
Speaker
Except for the storyline where O'Brien and Kira are trying to find the missing crew through time. That's funny hokey shit. but they yeah i want I want to point out the Emmy thing because Frakes probably subbed into this as Zeminom, I'm not sure. But I'm sure the writers, if they didn't put both parts in, this would probably be the part that you put in.
00:07:52
Speaker
Had no shot. Say what you will about Star Trek writing in the 90s and, you know, whatever. It was probably up against like an LA law or something. It was twofold problem. One, still a syndicated show. Lots of stigma, warranted or not. But I had a t s an itch in the back of my mind. I'm like, I kind of vaguely remember watching those Emmys. And I feel like that was the year where it was like, ER was maybe a freight train or something. Oh, probably. And sure enough,
00:08:20
Speaker
At least from the writing side, I didn't bother to look at the directing one. The here is what Deep Space Nine was up against past tense part two from the writing side. I'll start small. The X-Files, Dwayne Barry, the episode where Scully is kidnapped, which was their way of writing Jillian Anderson out of the show because she was pregnant. It was very intense, very good episode, and it was like a way to recognize, OK, the X-Files, which is was in its second season, it's like the X-Files is a big hit and it's arrived and it's a very well made show.
00:08:47
Speaker
The next episode nominated and NYPD Blue. yeah so im gonna say Yeah, Simone says it's the episode where Jimmy Smith joins the show to replace David Caruso. Next episode, my so-called life, the pilot. OK. All right. The show did have a lot of buzz. Yes. And then fell fucking flat, man. That was a stinker. Like, I mean, it was it was not a bad show. It was a good show, but nobody watched it.
00:09:17
Speaker
Right. But it was for like Emmy voters. It was like, this is what we we're trying to do. And then and if if you've ever watched, re like, if you've gone back and watched any of it, it's like, this is actually a really well made show. Anyway. And then the last one is Ears Pilot written by Michael Craig. Not one. So I mean, come on. Yeah.
Criticism and Defense of DS9's Themes
00:09:34
Speaker
So the directing nominees were E.R., Chicago Hope. Sorry, two episodes of E.R. Yeah. My so-called life and and NYPD. So yeah, they had no fucking chance.
00:09:46
Speaker
I guess I also bring that up because at the time of the release, the episode was actually reviewed and called preachy, liberal, soapbox-like, which really disappointed Ira Bear. He told Star Trek Monthly, people are are still even writing that we only presented one side in past tense and that we should have presented both sides and not just the liberal point of view.
00:10:08
Speaker
And I'm still trying to think what that means. In other words, we should have showed the positive aspects of putting the homeless into concentration camps. I thought we did see the quote unquote positive stuff as like, everyone who's not in there seems to be having a great life.
00:10:26
Speaker
that we see. Yeah. I think this is just like human in our DNA, which is like, it's part of our impulses. It's like, I think it simultaneously frightens people because it's like, I don't want to be like that. And it upsets them because fear is almost always the basis of anger. And that is because this exists, I need to stamp it out. And because that's all like very basic primal stuff. It's not, I need to make sure that there are no unhoused people. It's not, I need to,
00:10:56
Speaker
banish them from existence. hu I don't know how you portray that in a way that's sympathetic. And I also think Vin is that portrayal, the guard of ah of showing that people live with it and some become embittered by just that it exists and they have a way of looking at it. These are all losers. And i I can feel free to dump off like have a catharsis by spewing my hatred towards them. Yeah, like they're there because of some personal failing in his mind, and that's not usually the case. Sometimes, sometimes people fuck up their own lives um recklessly.
00:11:35
Speaker
But ah at least at this point in time, That is not the case. Right. And we see that that's used as like a way of not dealing with the issue in any meaningful way. Some people need more help than that. Some people could abuse the system. It's kind of no different than we're hearing now. of like i don't want I don't want all kids in school to get free lunch in case one rich kid gets it, you know? like Exactly. Like it's so ridiculous. You know how cheap it is to feed school kids?
00:12:05
Speaker
It's so incredibly inexpensive compared to like any other kind of social program you could put through. And like you know that the kids actually get a good meals. They're eating. Yeah, it's just so transparently wrong that you're like, that seems like it's a cooked up reason to well put a mask on your real feelings. And I think that's the case. By the way.
00:12:28
Speaker
since we live in California. My child gets free lunch, even though we can afford to feed him. So if anyone's like really upset about that, I don't know what to tell you. like It's fine. It's so convenient, you guys have no idea. I just send them to school and they feed them breakfast and lunch, it's great.
00:12:47
Speaker
I mean, but it's just like, what are you willing to spend and people are willing to spend? There are a lot of loud people who would rather their tax dollars go towards brutalizing these people and not helping them than helping them. And you can show them studies that it's actually cheaper in the short term and the long term. And that doesn't matter. It's like a personal decision of like, if I have any power to influence this, does I want things to be.
00:13:10
Speaker
That's tough to do, but we're not going to get all bogged down into all the politics of this because we do try to talk about the production, the making of the show. I like to talk about TV in general, occasionally. One of the things I want to talk about real quick, can the second part of a two parter ever be as satisfying as part one? In Star Trek? In general. In TV in general. In general, yes, absolutely. In general, absolutely. I think so.
00:13:35
Speaker
I'm trying to remember when I got really geeked out, really excited about a two-part episode in TV, and either a sign of the COVID that blew up my brain or you know a long time ago, or or it's just been so long since I've watched a two-parter on TV, like actually. And I know that ah Discovery has legitimately done two-parters, and you know ah Prodigy has done two-parters. Star Trek has been doing two-parters still.
00:14:01
Speaker
But for TV in general, for some reason, the only one I can think of is the one where House's head in Wilson's heart, the two part House episode that got that big Emmy buzz. And we found out that House's best friend Wilson, his girlfriend, Amber, who is one of the the the new doctors, she was in a bus crash.
00:14:20
Speaker
And House didn't remember because he was like concussed. So it's like go through all these weird visuals and dreams and trying to remember what happened. And it's at the very end of the episode he remembers. Ah shit, Amber was on that bus. And it was like, that was an amazing episode. And then part two is them finding Amber and she's like in a coma and then she's gonna die. And so they basically bring her out of a coma to say goodbye to her. And I'm just trying to think like that episode was not as good as the first episode where we're like, what's going on? What's bothering House? What's he trying to figure out?
00:14:50
Speaker
And I think in Star Trek two-parters best of both worlds part two pretty famously Not as good as part one, but also still has there's always good stuff I'm not saying that it's they're not it just seems like The tension of the buildup can most of the time is not as exciting as the release, right? I think that's what it ultimately winds up here That's why a lot of HBO shows, they tend to have they kind of actually build up to the penultimate episode. And then the finale of their seasons for a lot of HBO shows winds up being a different tone so that you're not just constantly pushing the button of like the season finale is going to be the biggest episode of the year. Sometimes it's the episode before. But anyway, not quite the same as two parters, but the same kind of like mental calculation.
00:15:33
Speaker
um I'm trying to think of any satisfying Star Trek two-parters, the second part. The Menagerie part two, pretty good because it's mostly the cage. ah That's kind of the only one that jumps. I feel like Star Trek doesn't do it as well at some other shows, even though I'm like totally b blanking right now on other shows. I mean, like there's some two-part ER episodes.
00:15:53
Speaker
That really gets you. Yeah. Yeah. My recollection from the first time I saw this one was that it, the ending felt a little too quaint. And I think that's kind of what I'm like, I don't have anywhere else to put this, but the ending of this, they ran out of time or something. Yeah. Because it's just like, do, do, do, do, do, do. And then everything's fine. It's all just wrapped up in a, in a, what, a captain's log or whatever, or.
00:16:22
Speaker
I forget even gives it gives the cat the log, but it's like supplemental. We figured out everything's fine. Right? um Like, how did how did ah how did ah everything come to pass? Well,
00:16:37
Speaker
whatever Yes, that's you know what that's what was missing instead of Bashir asking how could things get so bad and and Cisco says he doesn't know but in part one he did know he did have an answer.
Challenges in TV Storytelling
00:16:48
Speaker
This one actually seemed to get away from the world building they were going with like I wonder if there was other scenes that had to be deleted for time. Yes.
00:16:58
Speaker
Because I mean, that almost every show, by the way, that does that, they have to delete stuff for time. Because rather be over than under when you're trying to edit a show together, but it's just wrapped up too quickly. Too, too neatly because it was very violent and intense, very modern. It's fine. And that's just boop-a-doop.
00:17:20
Speaker
Uh, so there's that element. I just, that's kind of the main reason why I want to talk, talk about that. We on track, Mary kill, we haven't really done like in a formal two parter. We've done two episodes at a time, obviously, but never like to be continued. And then the conclusion, that kind of thing. Um, we did do the three parter and we kind of agreed with the same thing. It's kind of like, huh, it was kind of building up to something. It didn't quite pay off.
00:17:43
Speaker
what they were saying. I feel like yeah, it's that's a problem. I mean, specifically with these deep space nine has been, at the very end is like, Oh, yes, of course, everything's fine now. That's it. Like, like, I think the three party one, some guy shows up with evidence on a disc and no one even checks it. And it was like, we'll instantly believe you. Right.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yes, of course. Only someone telling the truth would go through all this trouble. Yeah. to data too Everything ended up fine, everyone. Okay, Ira Bear is very proud of the BC character. but The Frank military character. I thought he was very proud of the character.
00:18:24
Speaker
Yeah. He said in the Deep Space Nine companion, which again, I keep very close to my nightstand there. They wanted to make it clear that BC wasn't some hat wearing, unhinged psychopath, but a victim of circumstances. He says, quote,
00:18:42
Speaker
If you treat people like animals, they become animals. That's what he says in the show. If BC had not been homeless, what would he have been? We created his backstory stuff that would never appear on the screen and decided he probably would have been a garage mechanic or something. Even though he's obviously a threatening scary character and he's on the edge crazy all through both shows, we didn't define him as a murderer. So he really liked bringing that subtlety of this guy's like right on the edge. I don't know. I just want to point that out because sometimes it's it's funny when ah writers really say, I'm really proud of this character and And sometimes the audience does not necessarily agree with.
00:19:16
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't go like, you're right. Here's a gold star. And I wonder what the legacy of BC is, ah although I have my thoughts later. ah Everyone associated with this episode was very proud of it. Call Mimi was bringing it up in interviews, like literally a year after it was over. That's how much you remembered it, because usually the cast forgets these episodes almost as soon as they're done. So but clearly I mean, there's so much to do. oh my yeah like I bet it like the day is just run together, right? Like if you told me, hey, ah What'd you do at the office like last week? i like Yeah, exactly. You know what? I don't know. And they don't, most actors don't actually watch the shows. It's rare. I mean, I wouldn't say it's rare, but it's, it's fewer than you would think even on a show where they're on every episode. Some shows have like little viewing parties. Yes. And so some casts are like really into that for like the first season. And then they're like, I can't do this.
00:20:12
Speaker
And sometimes, though, the show airs while they're on set, so they they will turn on sometimes. Yeah. Clint Howard, who plays Grady in this episode, earlier portrayed Baylock in Star Trek, the original series, the corporate maneuver.
00:20:26
Speaker
However, the character of Grady was actually written for Iggy Pop, who turned out to be unavailable at the time. Iggy Pop did pop up in Star Trek in Deep Space Nine again. He plays a Vorta later on. And of course, we'll see Clint Howard 20 years later in the Strange New Worlds episode under the cloak of war.
00:20:43
Speaker
yeah Since we've never done a proper episode on the City of the Edge of Forever, and we never probably will, I think I like to mention it as often as possible. I feel like it just makes sense to do that. That'll be our our Patreon there we go that's exclusive or whatever. Our only fans. That's right.
00:21:01
Speaker
And so anyway, thanks to the memory alpha notes on past tense part two, I get to mention City and the Edge of Forever. There's a boxing advertisement that's visible in the 1930s scene where Kieran O'Brien beam in. And it showcases the same boxers as an advertisement that can be seen in City on the Edge of Forever.
00:21:21
Speaker
um ah their boxing match. And this one ah is for a bout. ah That one's at the bout for Madison Square Garden. The ad in this episode is for a bout at bay ah ah Bayland Garden and notes that it is their first rematch since Madison Square Garden. The reason this poster was used was to give a subtle hint that O'Brien and Kira were on Earth at exactly the same time as Kirk and Spock.
00:21:44
Speaker
Oh, my God. Yeah. Because I think I think in New York and they were in San Francisco. they Why didn't the tricorder pick up the stuff? Spock's tricorder? Well, no, no, no energy signatures or whatever, but they would have. I don't know. Well, they I have a lot of question technical questions about that anyway. so Yeah. So do I now?
00:22:10
Speaker
Huh. So Doug Drexler, who's like a big Star Trek like design and like they're all all the there are a lot of geeks in the art department. There are Star Trek nerds on that staff. So they were very excited by 1930. We get to do a city on the edge of forever reference. And ah nowadays it seems like they write the episodes specifically for.
00:22:30
Speaker
those moments to find those moments. And here it was just Star Trek fans finding a moment that they could use. And the writers and director didn't know. ah Jonathan Briggs wound up shoting shooting that poster way more than they thought. They thought it would just be in the background, but it's pretty prominent in the image there.
00:22:47
Speaker
By the way, we don't run to Kirk and Spock. Spock would me to be like, do not say anything to me. Yeah, please. Well, then again, Kirk and Spock, I think, are in New York and they're in San Francisco. So there's enough distance between them. Oh, I guess I didn't.
00:23:05
Speaker
It all looks the same. Yeah, it's the same backlot. They're on the same backlot just several years apart. 30 years apart.
DS9 Episode Context and Historical Significance
00:23:13
Speaker
This was Jonathan Brake's final Deep Sea Sign episode. He directed three of them, and all from season three of DS9, The Search Part II, and Meridian, and then this one. According to the official Star Trek chronology, we the official time periods that we see O'Brien and Kira beam into are 1930 and 1967. They also reference 2048.
00:23:34
Speaker
yeah there is an for For reruns, they took out the song that was originally playing when they beamed in the 1967. It was Hey Joe by the Jimi Hendrix Experience. I can't afford that. I'm not sure if it's on the DVD. I did not bless mine out for reference to see. I don't know. yeah i don't know but like um Sometimes that's made into DVD. So you might have cleared it for home video at the jump. So basically, if they don't clear the music,
00:24:04
Speaker
for all media or home video or whatever. um At the time they're clearing the show, it gets way more expensive and that's why you don't see certain things on streaming because that didn't exist back then. And so d common ah the the best practice now is to clear all your music for all media now known or here or hereafter just but devised in perpetuity throughout the universe, just in case, just in case we colonize Mars.
00:24:32
Speaker
yeah Because you don't have to go re-clear all that music. I mean, you could. I mean, some shows that have hit streaming have gone back and done that. and No, I mean, like, if we colonized Mars, it would be like, well, I didn't put universe. I put worldwide. like That's right. Too bad. That's another 10 grand.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think I have seen some things say throughout the known universe. And I'm like, I don't know what that means, but that's incredibly funny. I have never seen that. Now that is interesting. Should I start doing that? of age I don't know. No, I think you don't want to limit yourself. I'm like that. I think my the reason why I remember it is like that seems limiting. but no By the way, I always limit everything to worldwide because I like if there is. They should have to read. Yeah, there's a plan out there with like three billion people. I don't get more money.
00:25:20
Speaker
come on Yeah, yeah, you better have you have to in 300 years you have to renegotiate. Sorry. Elon Musk's gonna be so surprised when he tries to bring the boys to Mars.
00:25:32
Speaker
oh my dear so so ah This episode was the last to air before the premiere of Star Trek Voyager on January 16th, 1995. 30th anniversary coming up with that show, the debut of that show. That's nuts. that's that really took I really had to take an afternoon off when I was yeah when i was setting up our schedule. As opposed to, although otherwise you're going to work right through. That's right. Deep Season 9 aired 12 episodes without any other Star Trek on the air, right between TNG's end and Voyager's premiere. I just want to point that out.
00:26:03
Speaker
And finally, here's why I had you say McMuffins at the beginning, Kristin. Did you notice that the food provided the hostages and the forest inside the administrative office, that those were Egg McMuffins in plastic leftover containers? I mean, it looked like, okay, it looked like some kind of like fast food thing. um I am not super familiar with the McMuffin. I was always more of a bacon, egg and cheese biscuit girl.
00:26:26
Speaker
But um I wonder if it really is a McMuffin or if they had craft services do a very close facsimile of it. I think it because it's syndication, I don't think they have the budget for that. And a McMuffin at the time I went and checked. It is so much cheaper to get to have like craft services make 100 McMuffins and to go out and buy them. Cheaper but not faster. And I think time was more. well You and know, you'd be like, hey, we need a bunch of like breakfast foods. They probably just went to the I'm telling you, in 1994, a McMuffin costs $1.95. You're going to get... It's the closest McDonald's to Paramount. Paramount? There's one on Western. One on Western. Yep. That one. Yep. So you get those, and you're not going to eat those. They don't eat them, so you get like 15 or 20 of them. Although, Brian, back then, they only sold them till 10 a.m.
00:27:18
Speaker
Well, you're that's what I'm saying. You're getting this right at call. You're getting it right at call. And maybe you do that spray on them. You spray them so that they kind of hold their look. But they're so quick. They also look horrible.
00:27:31
Speaker
they look like like they love him like you look like egged we sent into the homeless people who we don't like to feed generally. Like when that fucking it's like when she's like, like, well, we'd like some breakfast. Oh, that's expensive. Like, shut up. Like, what do you mean? Oh, wait a minute. For 10,000 people. How else were you feeding people yeah I think you're right. though They could have just they could have just set it up. Like you said, instead of dumping it out, we'll pick it up and we'll pay you like ah for this show is made on the cheap. So I don't know. I just wanted to point out, yes, there is a McDonald's nearby ah that they could have made. It's not super close, though. It's close enough. It's close enough. I mean, maybe there was another McDonald's closer way back when.
00:28:17
Speaker
That's true. The only remaining McDonald's. They never used to close McDonald's, but they have had a handful of closures in the past 20 years. But prior to that, it was almost unheard of for a McDonald's to close because I don't know if anyone knows this, but McDonald's is not actually a food business. It's actually a real estate business. That's why they make all their money. But anyway.
00:28:41
Speaker
All right, I got to ask you, I had fun doing this last week, so let's play fuck, marry, kill. I'm going to give you three options, Kristen, fuck, marry, or kill. So here are the three options. BC, Biddle Coleridge. Then the security guard predictions about.
00:29:00
Speaker
2024. Here's the list. Employment Act of 1946 repealed at some point in this timeline. TV has been swallowed up by the internet. Social social change can happen through direct appeal by putting a face on human suffering. The cops aren't shoot first, though they're pretty close. And the governor would bother to negotiate at all. So predictions, then the security guard, B.C., fuck Mary Kill. Who'd he get? Oh, my God.
00:29:27
Speaker
um
00:29:34
Speaker
I don't know. i
00:29:39
Speaker
ah
00:29:42
Speaker
Is it is the fucking part? Is that penetrative or is there some other kind of thing? ah You know, what i'm important ah let's do let's do old style whoring where it's just you're squeezing your legs together. Oh, OK. And there that let's do that. OK. OK.
00:30:02
Speaker
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna fuck BC kill Vin and then I guess I'll marry the predictions or whatever. That's that's what I would have picked. Yeah, I almost I want I want BC off of me as quickly as possible. And he would be upset by that. He'd be like, Oh, we're gonna like no, he'd be a fast finish, I think.
00:30:23
Speaker
I don't know. He seemed like he seemed like he was like, so into Dax. Like, oh, there we could have had something special. Like, I know that's like a lot of talk ish, but like, yeah, I don't know. Like, ah ah he he strikes me as a person who thinks he's like a fantastic lover. And so like, for like, goes through the motions, at least of like foreplay, but then like, it's just horrible. Yeah. So over as quickly as possible.
00:30:48
Speaker
All right. That's over as quickly as possible. Let's get into the grades. Yeah. Kristin, grade scenes. Okay. I think, uh, four, four, three. Okay. Okay. So at the top, I'm just going to say that, um, just as the, the prediction, uh, you know, the scene where the, we only see this horrible negotiating lady, her side of the story, her side of the conversation with the governor.
00:31:17
Speaker
And she's like, Yes, I understand. Yes, of course. Yeah. And basically, the governor's like, Yeah, you got to sit in the National Guard and kill all these people or whatever. I feel it's very interesting that Star Trek predicted Gavin Newsom's heel turn. I don't know how they did it. But like, in the last few weeks, this is my this is my theory.
00:31:43
Speaker
Nancy Pelosi told Gavin Newsom, you got a real shot at being the Democratic nominee for president when we go to the convention after joe after I pushed Joe Biden out. And then when that shit didn't happen, he was like, fuck it. Now he's literally going city to city, personally throwing away the item, like belongings of homeless people. Like he just snapped or something. he is like His heel turn happened quicker than I could have imagined.
00:32:12
Speaker
i and like He's never been like fantastic. but like I'm astonished that you think it's a heel turn. I'm astonished. a because I respect you so much, that's all I'm going to say about that. so It is a heel turn from like when everyone was like, oh, no, we can't recall Gavin Newsom and like saved him. He's like, oh, everything's everybody. But after that, like yeah it was a very quick, like he went from just being like your average you know, evil politics, like, you know, now like right of center liberal Democrat. Yeah, just average kind of smarmy, scummy politician to straight up fucking evil in like three weeks.
00:32:55
Speaker
I think that just means it was always there. Okay. So you like that? No, but like, I mean, public, he ah he'll turn Brian. He didn't, like, he did you reveal yourself. He broke quarantine. He was at the French laundry during shutdown, COVID shutdown. yeah That was so fucking funny. I'm sorry. I don't even, I'm not even mad about that because. He dated, who was he with before the. the No, not just dated. He married Kimberly Guilfoyle and After they got divorced he went to like a rehab and she became a crazy Republican like that's not bad that whole relationship was but yeah
00:33:31
Speaker
I do have a lot of strong Gavin Newsom opinions, it turns out. It turns out, I mean, I only voted for the recall because it's like, I'm not going to let these recall jokers go from state to state doing this shit. It's like, forget now he's up for reelection. Yeah, exactly. We can do that to him, but you guys can't do that to him. Okay. He's ours to throw out of office and we didn't decide to yet. Yeah. Yeah. Gavin Newsom. He'll
Political Reflections Inspired by DS9
00:34:00
Speaker
turn. Wow.
00:34:01
Speaker
California politics, not the podcast that we're doing and probably causes us to lose some listeners. Yeah. And like California politics has been in the news a lot late lately, like Trump's saying that he was a no counter crash with Willie Brown. It's great. It's lovely. I bet Willie Brown didn't think that he would be figuring so prominently in the 2024 presidential election if you had asked him six months ago. Any other great scenes?
00:34:30
Speaker
Oh, sorry, yes. That's okay. Brian's going to cuddle that out. I'm going to cut it down to the funniest punch of me saying any more comments. Okay. um Oh, Kira's, I broke my nose cover story at the speakeasy. when like I have that again. or yeah I have that for something else, yep.
00:34:52
Speaker
um so When Sisko gets really tired of Vin's shit and he's like, you get on my nerves and I don't like your hat to be seen, but then he's like going to shoot out. He's going to like shoot. I don't know. They're going to be like he's about to start shoot out. He's like telling the cop, what the fuck is the matter with you? Just like stop antagonizing this idiot. Yeah, I'm trying to like save your life. dumb dumb And then Vin kind of sorts of gets it.
00:35:20
Speaker
Well, it all it takes is is Cisco throwing his body in front of him when the SWAT team tries to shoot at him. Oh, my God. Then he really turns. So and I also have when the I have this also in another category, but when the National Guard bust in and just like shooting indiscriminately, I think it's a I think that whole scene of Webb getting shot and everyone kind of realizing what's going on to be a good thing.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, I had three, the teaser where we get right at the beginning. I think the first scene is really intense is picking up right where we left off. Uh, I think it also establishes the entire dynamic of the episode and the central dilemma. BC, you know, we get it right away. BC intends to push the pedal to the metal. Cisco and Bashir are trying to deescalate, but Vin the guard does not want to do that. Um, and then the stakes of the episode is Cisco has to pretend to be Gabriel Bell, who's supposed to die.
00:36:21
Speaker
I think there's some really nice character beats and some really crisp dialogues, all attention. Well done. Very modern to like kind of change up the Star Trek formula. And then the other two, but Cisco BC and Web swap their ideas about what's supposed to happen. We learn BC is in this for himself. Cisco convinces him to make Web the face of it so that it helps everybody.
00:36:43
Speaker
that there are good performances, solid motivations. Again, ah an underappreciated thing about what makes actors actors is the ability to convey if they're not actually doing it to at least make it seem like they're listening to the other person in the scene. It really adds a lot of reality when you can see the turn on the characters faces and you understand they're all paying attention.
00:37:05
Speaker
And I also think in this scene, it's really great because even though Cisco's on his toes, he's an alien, basically. He's very commanding. We see his Starfleet officer being a commander coming through. He's kind of leading it. I thought that was great. And then last one, Bashir tends to lead the woman who processed him and he and Cisco in part one. I thought that was a very lovely scene. and I'll say some more about that later. So those are my three great scenes. Best Trek tropes. um Cisco loves baseball. Yeah.
00:37:35
Speaker
Um, all, everything, the speakeasy on the hippies and everything being shot probably on the same, like within an hour, all the same. They probably, yeah, it is the same spot. They just turn the lights on, turn the lights off. Yeah. Not so much a trek trope, but like just a general, you know, film and TV trope of the jerk cop or jerk anybody antagonizing their captors. Yeah.
00:38:03
Speaker
I enjoyed that. um So in the first episode, Bashir's like, um, so I'm like, maintain his cover, like, I know a little bit about medicine, maybe. And then this episode, he's like straight up, I'm a doctor, and everyone's like, Yeah, no, I don't think so. and Like, no one believes Bashir is ah an actual real doctor. um And Clinton Howard.
00:38:26
Speaker
Oh, I like that as a best trek trope. That's great. Yeah. Just Glenn Howard. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there he is. That's great. yeah I was like, yeah, Leander Capio in the... Yeah. Once Upon a Time. Yeah.
00:38:40
Speaker
Uh, you already mentioned it, but as a great scene, but I think it's a great best trek trip. Kira disguising her Bajoran ridges with the bandage, like sitting on the edge of forever. It's Spock putting a ski cap over his ears and then both of them having a really ah dumb explanation. Kirk's like, he got caught in his head, caught in a rice picker. And then, and then she just blurts out. I broke, I broke my nose. yeah So I thought that was a good trek trip. Just the aliens having to cover up their aliens and their alienness.
00:39:07
Speaker
I guess Bashir refers tennis to baseball, obviously. He should have said cricket, honestly, I think. Oh, uh, I didn't think about that, but I think I could see, uh, Bashir being a tennis player. I think we even see him playing basically like space racquetball at some point. So I, I dunno, I think you're, you're kind of probably right from like culturally, but I can see Bashir specifically playing tennis. I think cricket is not super well known outside of countries that play it. I think if they said cricket, I think some people are like, what the fuck is that? Like viewers would be like, what's that?
00:39:45
Speaker
I also like in the moment, though, that Lee, she kind of lights up. She's like soccer because in 2024, that's like a legit thing. People do love soccer. And sometimes it's surprising to find out who does like it is. Yeah, it's cool that they were like predicted that maybe. People in the US would actually like soccer.
00:40:03
Speaker
You were very smart to marry the predictions of 2024 then. um and i also Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. I almost put this in worse because I hate the Yankees. but Predicting the 99 Yankees is a good, you know, good Star Trek prediction. um I don't care for the Yankees. So but it was correct. Well, they they did shot during the um no, they won the World Series.
00:40:34
Speaker
No, no, they won the World Series in 98 and 99, but the 98 team, 114 and the 99 was 98. So it's yeah, but the no one and in the 99, they became after that World Series that became the most winning sports franchise. No, I think it's just funny. It's almost like a hipster opinion of like, well, sure, the 98 team won more games, but the 99. Look, I'm a Dodgers fan just because you've got a lot of games. Doesn't mean that's right.
00:41:01
Speaker
Uh, and then the, obviously the Kings are a fictional team that was set up in season one of DS nine and buck. Bokai doesn't exist, but the Royals did win the world series in 2015. I'm going to give them partial credit. That's the closest we have. yeah Yep. The other two I had were Starfleet officers inspiring the natives. You'll see Kirk do this a lot and sometimes Picard and Janeway and or whatever. But if you notice in the scene with Cisco, BC and Webb figuring out what to do with the hostages, and in the scene where it's Cisco and Webb talking to the SFBD detective and negotiating, Webb gets all of his strength from Cisco.
00:41:35
Speaker
where Cisco leads, he follows, he gains confidence from Cisco's ah confidence, basically. I just thought it was a really nice bit of acting to lift up the writing, which is why Bill Smitrovich just works and works and you know for so many years, just doing stuff because he's making eye contact, he's listening, and you could see his posture change and his tone change because he basically, you know Avery Brooks is so powerful in commanding, he'll follow in. I just like that idea of like,
00:41:59
Speaker
Even though they're undercover and pretending to be just normal people of this time period, not acting like Starfleet officers, which in all their Star Trek permutations they do, right? They're like, I might be a Starfleet officer, but you have the power of blah, blah, blah. Here he's just like, I'm just like one of you. But because of who he is, he's still inspiring. I thought that was great. I thought both of Kira's first officers logs were nice. I thought they were good. Best Trek tropes there. Collapse a lot of exposition into, into bites that didn't make you go, wait, what? Very clear. Where's Trek tropes?
00:42:29
Speaker
I feel bad about putting this in the worst, but I had to put it somewhere, but when BC says, I bet they're watching this in China. That's just a missed prediction for Star Trek. um They definitely are not. You can't watch shit in China. Well, also this is on YouTube now, it's or it's Twitch or something. It's like streaming everywhere. so but Everyone's, everyone in the world is potentially watching it. Not China. Well, but potentially all across the world. They all have on-center internet access. Sure. It's, yeah, anyway.
00:42:58
Speaker
ah I think the time I put the time travel in both last week here. I'm only putting it in the worst. OK, because the techno babble here is worse. So Brian, because it's you know why it's just so out of place for the rest of the episode. Like everyone's talking about, well, we don't have food or jobs. And then ah Brian's like, yeah the da and it makes sense, actually, even as a teenager watching this, I'm like, I get why they're doing this. Is it as funny as they think it is? And maybe that wasn't the point. It's like we need a little levity in this one.
00:43:28
Speaker
You know, you can't be too serious. But anyway, O'Brien says, according to our computer simulations, the degree of temporal displacement is directly proportional to the number of chroniton particles interacting with the transporter beam. Get the fuck out of here. Just get the fuck out of here. But what's the proportion, O'Brien? Do you know?
00:43:47
Speaker
Well, this is more Deep Space 9 actually has it better than TNG g or actually more Voyager, where they were very much like some quantity. They were much more like TOS at tremendous energy. They wouldn't like specify in all the cases. So I was actually okay with that. But it's still like, wait a minute. So it's like dust. It doesn't gigawatts. Yeah, it's like looking at a beam of light, like a sunbeam, and seeing dust particles floating through it. And you're saying, oh, if there's that much dust in it, then you went you went to 1930. But if there's that much dust in it, you went to 1967. I'm like, ah, I don't know. Also, I'm not understanding how the transporter signals working here, because yeah i don't get it so they're beaming through time.
00:44:29
Speaker
Yeah. And then the transporter is set to collect them after a period of time. How does the transporter maintain contact with them through time? That doesn't make sense because it doesn't they wouldn't have and they wouldn't have lost Cisco Dax and Bashir. No.
00:44:47
Speaker
Now, I don't know how you fix that because that seems like a problem that they but that they just were like, maybe we can comedy and talk our way through this enough where you don't think about too much. But I swear to everyone listening that I it stuck in my brain for that exact reason. As a child, I never let it go. Like, it makes more sense if it if they don't if they just stay on the ship and then Dax does the um stressing like, oh, we're picking something up.
00:45:15
Speaker
It makes more sense that they could send a signal through their combat just back to the ship. Yeah. But the idea that it cycles to collect them is where I'm like, I don't understand at best that you would have to like spray paint where you are right when you land so that you're in the exact spot because then I can understand. Right. You're beaming from the exact coordinates through that same particle. But I don't also. Yeah, it's whatever anyway.
00:45:41
Speaker
We already said this earlier, but I think this is a worse structure too. Big idea, interesting, kind of thoughtfully executed and it really makes you think, but it's kind of, it's kind of too neat of an ending and it almost undercuts the whole thing. We did, we said this with Plato's stepchildren last season and all that stuff too. Like sometimes you have a really great idea and then you're like, oh, that's over. I have, I also have another one. So when Beastie's like, we're going to ask him for a plane.
00:46:07
Speaker
Like, where are you going to go? Oh, Tasmania. So it's like, okay, we get he's dumb. Yeah. But going to Tasmania is insane. They're like, what? And they're like, Earl Flint's from Tasmania. There's no fucking way this guy has ever heard of Earl Flint. I'm sorry. That is a... That is that is the... that is This shows not equivalent, but that's their Gilbert and Sullivan. Okay.
00:46:32
Speaker
Well, that was, I was going to save this line because I actually think that it's a great line. His reaction, Errol Flinn's from there, but we'll talk about it now. There is a writer, there are TV writers specifically of a certain age because they like grew up on it, but like they're fucking obsessed with Errol Flynn's Robin Hood. And they're like, it's the best ever. And that's why. So like Ira Bear is like, he is of that generation where all those writers are like,
00:46:57
Speaker
ah Robin Hood, Errol Flynn, what a star, what a movie. I was a little boy when I saw it and it's like, that's what it's channeling. In 2024, a character of BC's age, which I'll be i'll overestimate and say he's like 38, maybe? I'll even say maybe he's like a kind of a youngish looking 43 or something. But in any case, there's no way Errol Flynn is on his radar in that way. Yeah. Unless you're trying to say that he's like into classic movies. That's that like a Or he's like, you know, this guy, this guy fucked.
00:47:33
Speaker
By the way, one thing about Errol Flynn. He always has an American accent in all those films. That motherfucker was born in Tasmania and and like grew up in England. There's no way he like spoke with a natural American accent. It's so wild. movies Old movies are so crazy. Anyway.
00:47:53
Speaker
Most cosplayable character or moment. This was tough for me, because I didn't want to just pick Dax. Kira and O'Brien traveled through time. You could do a cool mashup where it's just both of their costumes. So you'd have the nose bandage. You'd have some of what O'Brien's wearing. I love that their costume is completely ridiculous for every single place they go. That's true. It's like okay for the sixties, but O'Brien's looks outrageous. I kind of, I didn't go back and look, but it seems like that's what they were wearing in the circle where they're posing as prostitutes. It's like, she was wearing that in that same episode, I feel, or how did that same like look?
00:48:32
Speaker
Now it's time for the line must be drawn. Yeah. Great lines. Okay. I'm only, I only put this down because I thought it was funny. Like the line delivery is funny, but, um, Keira's first officers log. First officers log supplemental. Somehow Cisco DAX and Bashir have altered earth's history. We have no choice but to send an away team into the past to try to find them. And sorry, I can't remember. I'm ready. Correct the changes to the timeline.
00:49:00
Speaker
That's great. That's great. Being able to sell the bullshit like you're convinced. In case you didn't see last week, yeah we got to come up with something. Sometimes I would have put this in a worst trek trope, but this one worked. Yeah. Because she, she would have had time to do it. It's something someone might have wanted to put down for posterity case. We all disappear. Uh, this is what happened, but it's, it's just, it's funny.
00:49:30
Speaker
Any others? ah Hold on, where are we? Okay. When BC says, I really think we should kill that guy, um referring to Vic and I agree with him honestly. Yeah. And then when the social worker lady was like saying, and I work here, blah, blah, blah. And then Bashir's like, du it's not your fault. She says, everyone tells themselves that nothing ever changes. Yeah.
Responsibility and Societal Action
00:49:56
Speaker
That's the episode. That's the whole heart of the episode.
00:50:00
Speaker
Everyone's like, well, I didn't do it directly. Yeah. B.C., why do they sound so surprised? I mean, when you treat people like animals, you're going to get bit. ah Yeah. The Tasmania line. Vin's line. And check your email, buddy. You're a loser, too. I think check your email, buddy, should have been a saying or it should be a saying.
00:50:22
Speaker
Yeah, and you got to tweak it a little bit and check your DMS.
00:50:29
Speaker
I have the killer. i'll clean I like Cisco's. It's your head and your decision about how to wear his hat. I have the lead line. What you just said that you ended it on. um Uh, I really, I'm not going to say that all the lines, just Cisco's way, his exasperated, angry. Like I want to put my fist through this guy, but it would be a start when he's, you know, trying to get Vin to care. And Vin's like, why should I care? What'll that change? And just that is, that is a central to the episode as the Lee scene, which is that it would be a start. Did I not meant yet? Um,
00:51:11
Speaker
Did you think this line was funny? O'Brien, as they're beaming away from the hippies. Uh oh.
00:51:16
Speaker
it because that' like there It's go fine. Don't worry about it. It'll be fine, but it's also. Those guys were so high. and yeah That's a funny thing to say. Um, I guess I put this in here because it's a nice sentiment and it's a great line ah that maybe just something to think about. If you're a viewer today, Cisco, as they're leaving tells Vin,
00:51:36
Speaker
Tell, tell people the truth of what happened, about what happened here. And Vin says, I would have done that anyway. Now I only bring that up because I don't, I'm not questioning Vin's motives. I'm just questioning, like, obviously this is all setting up, like, and earth was set back on the path of dealing with this issues and heading towards the Federation. Right. That's the, that's the fairy tale ending. I just like that line weighs on me so much more. Cause it's like that guy goes on what?
00:52:03
Speaker
on the news, he gets like, the basically people are like attacking him. Like, did you know in his background, you know what I mean? Like it becomes a personal attack. So the message he's trying to deliver gets completely diluted by interested forces. Anyway, would this episode be a fun hollow novel to play out? No. Absolutely not. I don't personally like, like shoot them up stuff. Like I don't think that's fun to pretend to do that. Laser tag's different though, but No, I like the Civil War reenactors like now yeah none of that is. But you did. That was my note. I'm like, absolutely not. I don't think this would be a fun hollow novel to play out at all. But then again, there's so many different types of people we have to acknowledge that maybe the holodeck is an outlet for people with fascistic tendencies or like this puerile thing. And so I could definitely see people wanting to play it from the perspective of the SWAT.
00:52:59
Speaker
Sure, no, I can see why do i could see people wanting to. Some of our listeners might think that's fun. I don't know. I'm not a psychopath, so therefore I don't think it's fun. I get to walk into a walled off city of 10,000 people and mow them down. Let's do it. Let's go. Yeah, maybe Gavin Newsom will enjoy it. Yeah, Gavin Newsom. He's like, sign me up for the holodeck, baby. Ready or not. my Yeah, ready or not.
00:53:26
Speaker
One of the funniest political ads in California was the conservatives being like, basically trying to say, like, Gavin Newsom is going to deposit 100 immigrants on everyone's doorstep. Ready or not. here
00:53:42
Speaker
Talking about same sex marriage, though. oh Was it that it was just basically like conservatives like gay are go yeah yeah trying to scare your grandparents, being like, the world is changing and it doesn't matter how you feel about it. It was like ah Howard Dean's. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. he did like and It did not ruin his career, though. Unfortunately for us. but and Unfortunately for people... Yeah, for the unhoused people in California. Basically any elected official is bad news for the unhoused in California. The Anton Caridian Award for Best Performance. um I'm still giving it to Avery Brooks. I think I think i gave the sheer honorable mention last time. So I picked Tina Lifford as Lee.
00:54:25
Speaker
Oh, okay. Because that scene, I didn't, I put it as a great scene where she talks about the woman who couldn't care for her kid. And so had to go to the sanctuary district, but abandoned her kid. And she felt so bad. She just let her disappear into it. And the line you said, which really encapsulates the entire fucking episode. I even think her panic screams at the beginning are real.
00:54:47
Speaker
That to me, the entire point of that, the performance and that this whole episode is about, can we do a real episode that's like reflecting our times? I kind of think her performance is so good that anyone who thinks like they're uncomfortable with. She's too over the top with her screams or she's like to whatever is uncomfortable with anything that looks real. She felt very real to me in all of her performances and inflections.
00:55:14
Speaker
Like it really, she didn't have a lot to do, right? She's just leaning up against the wall for basically the whole episode and being a hostage. And I thought she nailed it. And I put Avery Brooks as the Shatner because he's really going for it. He really is, but it's really so is Frank military. Yes. Can we talk about? Yes. Oh boy. Do you have a rant? I don't have a rant. It's just like, what was I watching? Like his eyes are like wide the whole time. Like I can't.
00:55:43
Speaker
I can't figure this character out. Cause he was like, I don't care about anybody but me. And then he's like, Oh, I thought me and Dax could have had, had something special. All the girls. Right. Dax has crawled through the sewer and he's deflated to see that she knows Cisco and Bashir. Yeah. And like, Oh, I guess we could like, you would think that this guy would just been like all about gratification. Not, I wanted to have a connection with this woman.
00:56:10
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think that's just a that's just a joke that people that's just the thing people say. I mean, he would have in practice done exactly what you're saying. It would have been an empty gratification or is he being.
00:56:23
Speaker
er I think they want you to say that it they want you it everything about him is it's both that's that's why he's so proud of the character because he makes you feel they think that he reads as being realistic on both sides of it and maybe there's some truth to that well i mean Everyone else is playing chess. He's playing checkers. Okay, like I don think that's fair. But I think it's I think that's the point of the character. I think that's actually what they that is what they were going for and in a lot of ways. But like last week, we kind of I kind of just demo was like, you know, he's probably trying to be like a Tarantino character or whatever. Yeah, like, but is he the worst of us? Or is he just for comic relief? Like, I don't
00:57:04
Speaker
Again, the reason why I put that scene between with he and Cisco and Webb as a great scene is because even in that scene, he's not the weak link. There are no weak links. They're all great in it. He's just being his character. Now, is his character annoying? Yes. His way his mouth moves, his eyes, the hat. guys everything like just oh my god but that's the point you know what I mean like it's kind of the point they don't like shy away from that they don't try to make him something that he's not and there was a part of me that actually kind of appreciated he doesn't come across as particularly menacing he
00:57:38
Speaker
To me, he just does not. Yes. And I think that was what they were trying to say. And a lot of us just throw away lines and like nobody is buying that he's actually menacing, except he has a gun in his hand. Like if he didn't have a gun in his hand, no, I wouldn't be like, sh just just fuck up.
00:57:53
Speaker
Well, Kristen, that's exactly the point. I think you just said what you just said, you're just viewing it in a different way. You're like, well, that doesn't measure that doesn't add up to anything meaningful for me. And that's what I revere is actually proud of. He's like, he's not menacing, but he is menacing with the gun. And you kind of believe him as a threat because of that. And you kind of believe him as this kooky guy, and but all all all to show that he's a person.
00:58:16
Speaker
What kind of a person maybe not a character? He is not a person I would argue. I would say he's very close to a cartoon character. It's not this is not a person that exists in real life. I've never met someone like this ever. And I've met a lot of people. I've met a lot of burnouts. Okay. He's I think from an actor standpoint, though,
00:58:37
Speaker
a character they're always driven by the motivation but it's basically like who am I and what do I want so I'm this guy who has this backstory and I want these specific things how am I gonna get that well I have an idea but maybe these people are right that I need to do more than that to if not get what I want then to get us all something and I'll be okay, I'll win in the end. And I feel like his performance actually plays that out better than what, like, than the idea that he is a cartoon character. Like, I actually was able to, like, when he's like, okay, major point. I kind of believe that, and I still think he's like, ah he's half cocked all the time. Like, he's in this position because he's, uh,
00:59:18
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily say charismatic, but he has enough passion. He has enough force to kind of do things. And I think a lot of these people are traumatized or, you know, bummed out because of their station and where they're at in their life. And he's like one of the only ones who's going to do something about it. And I think that does come through. I don't know. I would give him the Shatner, though, for this one. I was guess I was supposed pleasantly surprised that he wasn't fucking obnoxious because my recollection was a part two is fucking obnoxious.
00:59:48
Speaker
And I was less annoyed. Yeah, he's had I not been prepared. I i don't know. It's just a it's a strange tone that he has. It's a bizarre. so It's ah certainly a different Star Trek character than we're used to. um He's not as much of a cartoon character as some of the, you know, villains, the, quote unquote, villains from, say, the original series. But also, like, I don't think this guy went to Rada either. OK.
01:00:18
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. so i i don't I don't care for the character. I think it's ridiculous. I don't know why anyone would be proud of creating this character when you have other things you'd be super proud, much more proud of. um i Yeah, i don't I don't know where he's coming from. I don't know what he really wants. I think he's just making it up as he goes. And that's a weird character. Shoot to thrill most exciting image or sequence?
01:00:48
Speaker
ah Oh, yeah, the shootout. Oh, I do like Earth. We do still get Earth, but the National Guard busting in and guns blazing. and I just thought it was an interesting scene. Yeah, it was good. ah I still put the teaser for mine. But in any case, both of them were like the action sequences were. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. What part of this will they teach at Starfleet Academy?
01:01:15
Speaker
that Benjamin Sisko started Orion San Francisco in 2024.
Time Travel Narratives in Star Trek
01:01:20
Speaker
So this gets addressed in Green Little Men when ah Quark, Rom, and Nog are traveling back to Earth on a frankey shuttle and Nog's like studying Starfleet history. And he's like, ah uncle, doesn't this look like captains or come commander Captain It's the same picture. It's almost the same shot, I think, yeah of of that.
01:01:41
Speaker
Yes, they're gonna have to talk to temporal investigations, which is our lesson last week. But I also wanted to point this out. Who who still? Yeah, where the fuck they were on this one? Yeah, that's right. Why aren't they popping? They're gonna come back and hey, hey, wait a minute, you let them take a picture of you. Yep. That's where you fucked up like, like, they could have got him out of this jam. Ostensibly from the job.
01:02:05
Speaker
Well, when they do the ah temporal investigations series, that's where they're going to have to explain that in episode one of like, well, why don't we just go in and prevent the violation initially? It's like, because sometimes the character, the the people need to go through these journeys to set them up on another thing that we need them for.
01:02:24
Speaker
ah That could be the only explanation for why they let them, you know what I mean? Like why they don't intercede immediately. But the other thing is, because we kind of said this last week, the temporal investigations, the other part was, you can easily imagine the Strange New Worlds crew not wanting to call people gimmies, dims, and ghosts. And I think that would make them stick out and would create a weird tension. So Cisco and Bashir blending in really helped them here.
01:02:47
Speaker
And to the point that because they listened. So again, this goes back to Starfleet. ah When you go to Starfleet Academy, I think one of the lessons is you have to be an actor. Starfleet kids, Starfleet Academy cadets have to be theater kids. well Great part of acting is listening. Also like part of being a good spy.
01:03:02
Speaker
Yes, but Bashir is listening and because he's listening he knows that when Lee asks him so your friend gave Gabriel Bell gave me a fake name when I process you the other day and Bashir realized oh shit and he's able to tell a lie. he paid a short and He knew the circumstances for why people wound up in these things and he's like oh well he had a yeah a record and you don't want to like get involved you know he didn't want to be denied the services. um And that prompted. He wanted to be in this prison. yeah different one but But he wouldn't have known to say that had he not been like and willing to immerse himself. Could this episode have been hornier and would that have been better? I don't know I don't think so. I don't I mean yes I don't know.
01:03:47
Speaker
I don't think so. it was I think it was the right level of pathetic horniness towards Dax. If there were any more, I would have been like, ugh, someone just please knife him in the gut. Which is, again, why I don't want him near me. And when we see Bremer, the guy who owns the the the internet channel, they did get that they really did get that right. The internet would swallow up TV, just not in the way that they're doing it. Yeah, this guy seems to have money, though.
01:04:14
Speaker
Like it seems to be a profitable thing and he talks about ratings. Yes. So I didn't get it quite right. Right. he he's He's the Netflix. Yeah. Or he's just he's Gary YouTube or Chris YouTube. Chris YouTube. Yeah. So I think that's the only other area where it might have been a little hornier. I don't know. Well, I think like there's a little bit of I mean, when the hippies come out of the van, it's rocking a little. Oh, good. Good call. Good call. Perfect. So perfect level. Yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah. I think that if you're going to have it, have it as sort of a just a little like a cultural detail, the you know, the free love, the summer of love or whatever.
01:04:55
Speaker
Yeah. That was 67, right? I've, I've been 67. No, 67 is my parents. All right. So Trek, marry or kill past tense part two. So I married the last one. I think, I don't think this one is good. So I'm going to have to say Trek, but I think had I not had the other one up and so good, I, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's a ah strong track.
01:05:19
Speaker
That's exactly what I had. I think there's there's a like literally, I wrote strong track. ah Because I think the middle part where they're trying to give a face, the episode itself is trying to give a face to every side of this discussion. ah Maybe spends a little too much time on the admin people and the cops and our heroes as opposed to the people dealing with this actual thing and how it affects them. We only get some testable nails, that kind of thing.
01:05:45
Speaker
ah whatever the point is like it was a very considered episode very delicate they tried to do try to find a balance that it's bookended by excitement on either end but i think the ending is not a cop out just kind of like what you said they either ran out of time ran into maybe ah some more pushback on part two than they got on part one i don't know if people realize that there's a network note that um sometimes you get pushback on of class is like a thing that sometimes they're like oogie. They they get a little uncomfortable with it. Also, ah disabilities. um Those are like two things that people will be surprised to be like still. We didn't want to see poors. Yes. Even now, and maybe even now, ah especially now, we we see it less and less. So I don't know. But yeah, something about the ending leaves something to be desired, whereas part one had the excitement of the cliffhanger. How are they going to get out of this?
01:06:35
Speaker
Also when they're like, Oh, can we, Oh, what are you gonna do with this? Now? I guess we'll just let you go. Like, was that an option? Like all these National Guard around, they're not gonna be like, Hey, who are these guys? Also, they're walking out the front door when it's like, why don't they just go through the sewers? yeah What, what was that? How's this work? You could just leave? Yeah, that's right. You see somebody go, Oh, here's the back door. Right. And yeah how, if that's the case, how's no one ever escaped?
01:07:02
Speaker
Also, how are Cisco and Bashir beaming back without their combatches, which have been missing this whole time? Well, they've done that before. You could lock onto a signal or whatever from one, right? I guess so, but it seems even trickier when you're beaming through time dust particles. This is a specific rendezvous point, I thought. I guess so. That Dax had set up and told Kira about? I don't know, whatever. I guess so. That's the least of my worries.
01:07:28
Speaker
the The point is is, is yes, the episode doesn't I don't I wouldn't say it pulls its punch, but let's just say that its punch does not land as hard as the set up in part one. And a lot of this episode would kind of push us towards. So it also sucks that Cisco took over this Gabriel Bell's identities like he gets erased from history when he was actually he who was the hero. Yeah. So yeah, that sucks. The poor guy died for nothing. That's true.
01:07:58
Speaker
It's like not even a picture of him.
Star Trek's Relevance Today
01:08:00
Speaker
But at least it happened, right? And now we have starships and warp drive again. Yeah. Like, it's great that that one little hiccup and the Vulcans are like, they're not ready. We're staying away. Well, I'm glad we got to do this. I'm i'm enjoying these predictions of of our presence.
01:08:23
Speaker
We kicked it off with 2024 because I mean, there's it's very rare that Star Trek had a an exact 2024 prediction. So we're going to just necessarily travel back a little bit in time. We're going to Star Trek Voyager though, when they traveled from their future back to our present at the time, which I believe was 1996.
01:08:46
Speaker
In Futures End. Macarena. That's right. That's right. They don't go to the DNC. They do not appear at the DNC. silver Sarah Silverman, though, she gets a lot of run in this two part coming up. Yeah. By the way, if you've never seen that video, you want to cringe more than you've ever cringed in your life. I cringed at the time and I was a child. Yes. It was bad for the time. Yeah. The Macarena was Fun for kids for maybe like the the teenagers for maybe a week and then after that. night was longer Okay, but I promise you in the same summer it went from like something the kids could do and be fine with to like our parents are doing it. Stop it. Yeah, this is what this is when that happened. Yeah.
Wrap-Up and Community Call to Action
01:09:35
Speaker
It was like, oh, no, no, no. So I'll be next week. But just to finish up this week to close the thought that we talked about these two episodes, the past tense parts one and two focused on homelessness and the poverty crisis. And I just kind of want to put out a little call to action. Maybe a reminder, please consider donating to your local food bank.
01:09:59
Speaker
and if you ever have a chance to volunteer or donate money or vote in a local election for measures that help the unhoused and or your local libraries which provide temporary shelter and education for people don't get either elsewhere please consider those alternatives to anything that you can do to take the time That's putting some good out into the world. Please consider it. Anyway, uh, be sure to rate and review us. If you feel so inclined on wherever you listen to the platform, check out Trek Mary K pod on social media and check out trekmarykillpod.com for all of our standing. So until next time, TMK out.
Errol Flynn: Scandals and Legacy
01:10:46
Speaker
Can I give him a more Errol Flynn fact? Yes. He claims that he was thrown out of school when he was like 15 or 16 for banging the laundress. Probably unlikely that's why he was thrown out. He probably did bang the laundress. But officially he was thrown out for um stealing from the till or something.
01:11:09
Speaker
That guy liked to fuck Ryan. He was only 50 when he died. did he He, that man had some STD. He was with Olivia de Havilland? Geez. He was, not at that point. He had some alcohol problems and I think he ah he had some liver issues from that. Plus probably he probably had like Hep C too or some kind of hepatitis.
01:11:39
Speaker
Let's see, hold on.
01:11:42
Speaker
Flynn had various mirrors and hiding places constructed inside his mansion, including an overhead trap door above a guest bedroom for surreptitious viewing. Rolling Stones guitarist Ronnie Wood toured the house as a prospective buyer in the 70s and reported, Errol had two-way mirrors, speaker systems in the ladies room, not for security, just that he was an A-1 Boyer. In March 1955, the popular Hollywood gossip magazine Confidential ran a salacious article titled, The Greatest Show in Town, Errol Flynn and His Two-Way Mirror. like
01:12:14
Speaker
In her 1966 biography, actress Hedy Lamarr wrote, many of the bathrooms of people's or ceilings with squares are of opaque glass through which you can't see out, but someone can see in. Oh, my God. This guy was a like world class fuck boy. But he did die of cirrhosis of the liver and he probably had hepatitis or something.