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Season 2 Finale: Seasons of Family with Tracy Johnson and Katy Stafford
159 Plays7 months ago
This season concludes the way it started: with mother-daughter duo Tracy and Katy. This time, we tune in as Tracy and Katy reflect on a kind of family ending and the hope surrounding a family beginning. Katy shares her experience of the 'maybe season' as she and her husband navigate the journey of growing their family. And Tracy tenderly reflects on the upcoming threshold of her final child reaching adulthood and a season of parenting coming to a close. Together, these women celebrate the journey they've walked alongside each other and the hope they nurture for the future. Whatever season of family you find yourself in, there is something special in this episode for you.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Season of Family Stories
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Hailey Wiggers, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. This season, we connect on stories of family. We're excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table. Today's episode is called Seasons of Family.
00:00:24
Speaker
I don't know that I could envision a better pair to tend to this conversation. Tracy Johnson and Katie Stafford explore this thin space that exists when what we know to be true of family is on the precipice of change, the edge of hope, or simply in a season of waiting.
00:00:46
Speaker
Their stories, it seems, are bound together so beautifully as a mother and daughter find themselves expectant with different kinds of hope in two very different seasons of family. I hope you can just nestle right in and drink in this episode's goodness. Enjoy the conversation.
Navigating Family Dynamics During Change
00:01:10
Speaker
Hello. Hello. Here we are again. I know. So our episode, we're closing the season with a sort of look at the seasonality of family, that it ebbs and it flows. Did you know right away what story you were going to talk about?
00:01:31
Speaker
I know who I was going to talk about. And maybe, I mean, maybe in that way, so it feels too obvious and like right around me that a significant season is coming to a close for me, for dad and I, but the season of parenting and having
00:01:52
Speaker
you know, kids. And I think like, you know, if we think 18, I don't know that I think 18 is the total adult, but, but it's a threshold. And so we're about to cross that threshold. So I knew I would, I knew I would be talking about that. I wasn't totally sure. Honestly, it was a little, there are a lot of different ways that I could come to it, but I landed on something. How about you?
00:02:20
Speaker
kind of similar.
Katie's Journey: Hope and Patience in Family Planning
00:02:23
Speaker
When we decided this was the episode, I figured it was the right time to talk about that Aaron and I are on the other side of that story wanting to start a family, like wanting to enter into a new season.
00:02:39
Speaker
And I didn't know completely how I would broach that. I think that's a pretty personal thing. But yeah, I've been sitting with it and I like where it landed. We had a lot of notice on this episode. So it has been percolating in the back of my brain for weeks and weeks. Would you like to go first? Sure. I called this the maybe season.
00:03:07
Speaker
It's that two-week window again, the window of maybe. Next week, there will be a slight shift from possibility into anxiety, from we could be pregnant to, is my period coming?
00:03:24
Speaker
But for a few more days, it is just possibility. And it's just for my husband and me. For couples hoping to add to their family through a pregnancy, I think the maybe season must bring a flood of different emotions and behaviors. As a whole, when there's something I'm hoping for, I struggle not to overthink, fixate, or seize control and make things happen.
00:03:51
Speaker
I rarely wait well. Those behaviors are not my favorite parts of myself. And they've left me worried about how a pregnancy journey would go.
00:04:03
Speaker
I'm not always fantastic in welcoming my own vulnerable, hopeful feelings. But what this season has afforded me is the chance to learn how to share in hope. Because I'm not carrying my longing alone. It is something my husband and I are growing together.
00:04:23
Speaker
There have been many, many hopes in my life that the people who love me have carried alongside of me. Hope for a college acceptance letter, hope to spend a semester traveling abroad, hope for a new job, hope for a romantic relationship. But in every instance, the hope that people carried was that something would happen for me, not for them. With a baby, it's different.
00:04:50
Speaker
because my husband and I are hoping with each other. And hoping together is a whole new kind of love and a whole new kind of vulnerable. In response to my typical make-a-plan approach for how to manage my hope,
00:05:06
Speaker
My husband has encouraged patience and self-awareness. He has prioritized communication and empathy. He's reminded me that the dream of a baby is something to hold gently, and that includes holding each other gently along the way, too.
00:05:24
Speaker
And whether I am feeling particularly excited about the possibility or a bit low in the anxiety and the waiting, he's made room because my hope is a part of him and his steady presence gets to be a part of me. This season of maybe is growing me. It's growing my trust and my communication styles.
00:05:48
Speaker
and growing my gratitude for the feeling of hope.
The Challenges of Waiting and Shared Dreams
00:05:52
Speaker
And maybe that is worth the wait. When you started the first sentence, it made me think, like, dad and I had a, we used to say to each other, maybe, baby, maybe, baby, baby.
00:06:09
Speaker
during that was exactly what you described. So I couldn't help but think about that. And yeah, just the history of that. So I love that you chose maybe. It's not even knowing.
00:06:24
Speaker
I found myself caught when you said, you know, I don't wait well. And I thought, gosh, I don't know who waits well. What does that even mean? It felt like a little bit of a judgment, you know, against yourself.
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah, maybe the truer thing is just waiting is hard. Period. Like, waiting is always hard. Nobody. Nobody likes waiting.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, and there's so many different kinds of weighting, but I think you did such a beautiful job of talking about there is a particularity to this weight. And I liked when you described like the hope with versus the hope for, and that felt it was just like so intimate.
00:07:22
Speaker
like we're hoping with each other. It's not an inactive process. That's been the biggest and oddly slowest learning for me. It took a little bit of time for me to embody that we're in this together.
00:07:42
Speaker
And I think it was because of my relationship with hope up to this point where it's like, when hope, when any big emotion is coming my way, I tend to step back from that big emotion and just get very methodical and very next step and try to package it a little bit and do what needs to be done. And then I'm like, and when we're through it, we'll feel it later.
00:08:08
Speaker
Like, oh, come back. I'm going to feel it. I'm not just like, you know, jettisoning off my emotions. But I do try to kind of like, you stay in the closet and then I'm going to figure it out. And when everything's clean, you can come back out again. And this process and choosing Aaron, choosing my right now family, has forced me to revisit that because it's like, I can't keep it carefully kept.
00:08:37
Speaker
if the beauty of this moment is that we're doing it together. So that has been a relearning of how I sit with this emotion actively so that I can stay not only connected to myself, but connected to Aaron too. And even to what I think is the beauty of hope, which is something that I don't
00:09:01
Speaker
tend to talk a lot about, because I'm like, I don't find hope particularly beautiful. I find it annoying and frustrating. And this season, I have been finding more pockets of beauty where I'm like, this that we're sharing right now, there's something really special about that, even though it's not fulfilled. Yeah, yes, to all of that.
00:09:25
Speaker
I have always loved that part of who Aaron has been for you is this really gentle invitation to be with yourself more
00:09:44
Speaker
fully about that. And, and, and I could hear it, you know, as you were telling this story today, when it's like, Aaron's the one inviting you to patience. Aaron is the one inviting you to self awareness. Aaron is the one reminding you that this should be held really gently. And I just, I just think he is such a gift.
00:10:10
Speaker
to you in that. And, and you named this really well too, that this isn't something that, that I am meant to hold with you or that your sisters are meant to hold with you. I mean, you know, it's not for us to be asking you for updates and checking in, you know, much as we would like to because we care. It's not
00:10:40
Speaker
We don't belong in that space. It's space that belongs to you and Erin. And so, you know, I find myself like I'm aware of maybe, and I'm aware that we're waiting. And I'm also aware that my waiting, it's watchful and it stepped back. Totally.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I think that that is as it should be.
Cultural Pressures on Starting a Family
00:11:05
Speaker
And I love even as you're talking about it today, it's like, Erin is your family. Erin is your right now family. And this is a season of you guys figuring out and journeying together on what will it look like for your right now family to grow. And that's something that just the two of you should be writing together.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, it is culturally so familiar for people to say, are you guys looking at starting your family?
00:11:41
Speaker
that inherently truncates the season that many people find themselves in or that unmarried people find themselves, where it's like families so much more expansive than children. And sometimes if we're not mindful, I feel like we can kind of get fixed on that being when a family starts or how a family starts.
00:12:06
Speaker
Because I don't know that anybody wants that question. Right? It's like, why is that your friend? Step off. Like, you don't get to ask that one. It's like, are you thinking about starting your family? No. Yes. What? Are you thinking of jumping off a cliff? Spoken in love.
00:12:37
Speaker
Yeah. And respond to that. I mean, what is it that you're supposed to... It's like you want to go, what were you expecting to see on my face when you asked me that question? Right. And true so much? I don't know.
00:12:54
Speaker
And I think all of that can, and what I'm really grateful for Erin for, and I think maybe what you were saying also is like there can be a pressure and a scarcity that I feel like starts to encroach with that kind of energy.
00:13:14
Speaker
And as a striver, as somebody who had, I think, a lot of anxiety of, if I don't make it happen for myself, it's not going to happen. That's the river that I feel like Aaron's carving a new path to flow a different stream. Where he's like, what if there's time? What if there's more? What if this isn't about making something happen? What if it's about us being present?
00:13:43
Speaker
I think there is something really beautiful about this time that we are living in where it feels like it is more expansive what is available to
00:13:59
Speaker
to women and, you know, to the young family, like just the regimented, like, you should, and this is what I felt, like, I was, I mean, I was 22 when dad and I got married, and my closest friends were already married. That's nuts. I mean, it was just like, I had already been in several weddings, and so,
00:14:31
Speaker
And that just, that felt like what we were supposed to do. That was what you totally do. And you've heard me tell the stories like my dear friend Debbie Moon and I, like you need to have all your babies by the time you're 30 because having babies after 30 is dumb.
00:14:45
Speaker
I mean, it's just like we weren't the only ones saying that. Right. And today, like not a single, none of the friends in our friend group are like having kids yet. That's just not. No. There's been a there's been a cultural shift. There has been. There has been a cultural shift.
Non-Traditional Family Timelines and Evangelical Contexts
00:15:05
Speaker
And and I guess the other thing that I would say, like, I guess that I know something of what it is to feel like you've broken with
00:15:15
Speaker
the traditional pattern and people are moving on without you or their lives are moving into a space that yours isn't moving into. And it's not that that doesn't come with cost.
00:15:34
Speaker
It's real. That sense of like, we're being left behind. There is some of that, honey. Some of your closest friends. The friends that I grew up with, my best childhood friends, my best college friends, they are several steps down the path.
00:16:01
Speaker
have been married for over a decade, have kids, and that was hard when they were getting married. I remember the feeling and the pregnancy announcements were coming out and I was like, I don't even have, man, there are no dates right now. And I was like, what does that mean? And again, it is that like, what if there's time?
00:16:27
Speaker
What if this world is a little more expansive than your traditional evangelical upbringing often modeled for you? I just didn't see that a ton. Not that anybody was giving anti-messages, but I just wasn't seeing that lived out a lot.
00:16:46
Speaker
No, you weren't. And so it is sort of uncharted. It's a little bit of uncharted things, you know, to be starting your family, having babies into your 30s. Wild, wild times. What about you?
Journaling for Children: Capturing Memories and Milestones
00:17:07
Speaker
Let's talk about the other side of the cookie.
00:17:11
Speaker
Here we go. There might be some theme. Cold January rain pelted the windshield of my red Ford Expedition as I drove towards Barnes and Noble. I parked and swiftly exited the car, retrieving the stroller. I definitely popped it open with one hand, a finely honed skill.
00:17:31
Speaker
Unfastening Ellie from her seatbelt behind me, I securely strapped her into the stroller, tugging her favorite stuffed animal, Peepee, next to her and making sure her pacifier was clipped to her coat. I rushed into the store, shielding us both from the increasing droplets of rain. Several days earlier, a long cream envelope had arrived in our mailbox, bearing within it the long-awaited acceptance letter from Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee.
00:18:01
Speaker
Katie beamed as she read the contents, revealing not only her acceptance, but also a generous scholarship offer. Her dreams for the upcoming chapter of her life were beginning to feel like a tangible reality.
00:18:14
Speaker
Realizing the significance of what was unfolding, I needed a way to mark what was happening. I decided that I would write to her as we walked towards her high school graduation. So I was in search of the perfect journal. In the days and weeks that followed, I established a cherished ritual of writing to Katie in the evenings after giving Ellie her 11 p.m. bottle.
00:18:37
Speaker
Nestled in my favorite blue chair, I would retrieve the journal from its hiding place, allowing myself to be wholly present with Katie and the emotions swirling within me. One by one, I captured the moments that unfolded through the spring of her senior year, from the haunting melodies of her final choir concert to the adrenaline-fueled excitement of her last volleyball game, from the joy of selecting her prom dress to the meticulous search for the perfect pair of shoes.
00:19:05
Speaker
from reading her last English papers to the profound words penned in her valedictorian address. I found that I would write things I didn't always say in the moment that I imagined would be more meaningful down the road.
00:19:17
Speaker
The riding journey was for her and for me. Amidst the whirlwind of mothering five kids stretching across 17 years, it was all too easy to feel swallowed by the chaos. Yet I knew remaining attuned to the profound transition happening demanded intentionality.
00:19:36
Speaker
Three years later, I found myself embarking on a familiar, yet profoundly different journey as I started to write to Alison during the spring of Hurston-Wynger. Recognizing that her path was new nifu per own, I once again reached for a new journal, ready to document the moments that would shape her transition into adulthood.
00:19:55
Speaker
Despite the ongoing whirlwind of parenting from managing sippy cups and toddler toys to guiding a high school freshman son and preparing our house for sale, I made a conscious effort to carve out moments of stillness at the end of each day. Centering my thoughts solely on Allison and her journey served as an anchor, grounding me amidst the flurry of responsibilities and ensuring that I remained intimately connected to the significance of this pivotal time in her work.
00:20:23
Speaker
Three years later, Steven's senior year arrived, and a quiet intuition told me that my words were not what he needed. With deep respect for his journey, I made the conscious decision to mark his milestone within the pages of my own journal, honoring that my son was not in a season where his mother's words were what were most needed. Nine years later, the familiar yet profound ritual resumed as it was time to acquire another journal, this time for living.
00:20:51
Speaker
With each passing graduation, the significance of these journals grew, serving as a silent witness to the milestones and memories woven into the fabric of my girl's lives. In July of last year, I began searching for Ellie's journal. I could feel the passage of the 17 years between Katie and Ellie. The 42 year old first time mom of a senior is now nearly 60. On August 1st, I pulled out Ellie's journal and wrote the first entry.
00:21:20
Speaker
For her, the journal had to begin with the day she walked onto the Banfield for the start of her final year on the dance team. On August 16th, I wrote for her first day of school. It's here, the first day of school for your senior year. Perhaps because you are my last baby, I wondered about this day the longest. You were just two weeks old when my first baby started her senior year. I remember holding you as Katie pulled out of the driveway that morning.
00:21:47
Speaker
You were tiny, the smallest of all flying moon. 17 years felt like such a long time away. I already knew this year, I already know this year will fly by and each day you will be walking towards independence, taking you to the threshold of your dreams and plans for the beautiful life you want.
00:22:07
Speaker
I am with you, here for all of it. I will still be holding you close as you drive away this morning, just like I did that day 17 years ago. Much has changed as we're finishing out this season of parenting. The trusted Ford Expedition, once a necessity with five lightly children under a roof, has long since departed, emblematic of the shifts that have transformed our lives.
00:22:30
Speaker
What was once a bustling and vibrant household has gradually quieted the echoes of laughter and chatter giving way to a newfound stillness. Ellie's long cream envelope arrived via email and came with an invitation to visit the campus for a special event at the business school. We put her on a plane to her oldest sister who was the one to escort her around that weekend.
00:22:53
Speaker
There was something sweet and full circle about Ellie and Katie doing that together. The shared experience marked not only the beginning of a new chapter for Ellie, but also symbolized the culmination of a transition that has been years and at least become her own person.
00:23:10
Speaker
a young adult woman ready to take her place with the rest of her siblings.
Parenting Transitions and Emotional Journeys
00:23:15
Speaker
This week, I finally framed Ellie's picture and tenderly hung it on the spot that has patiently awaited her presence on the wall. From the time she could walk, she has passed by that space. Each glance, a reminder of the day, she would claim her rightful spot among her siblings commemorating her senior year.
00:23:35
Speaker
As I stood back and admired the completed display, I couldn't help but reflect on the profound significance of the moment. With Ellie's portrait now adorning the wall, the symbolic division between our oldest three and youngest two children, once necessary, now feels obsolete. We've entered a new phase of parenting.
00:23:56
Speaker
One where all five of our children have finally arrived into adulthood and will be scattered across the country pursuing their dreams. For the first time in three decades, the familiar ritual of waking someone up for school in the morning will no longer be part of my daily routine. As a season of parenting kids draws to a close, I'm filled with bittersweet mixture of nostalgia and anticipation, ready to embrace the next season of our family's journey.
00:24:25
Speaker
I felt like I got to walk almost all of that with you because I have so many memories tied to all of the seasons. If it does feel like too much to even like, it's just, it's too, how are you doing with the too much?
00:24:48
Speaker
aware. I mean, how do you encapsulate that? And so I think
00:25:01
Speaker
When I bought that journal for you, I didn't know what I was doing. I really did it not because I had some profound plan, but mostly for the reason that I said. There was so much that was happening. I just knew if I didn't do something to create some sort of
00:25:23
Speaker
way and space for myself to process like I wasn't going to make it. And I think it's interesting, Katie, that like
00:25:34
Speaker
that I can feel like the too much of all of that. The, just how wide my arms had to be and for such a long time to try and hold, you know, everything that was happening. How do you hold alongside like you're taking your last steps across the stage and Ellie is just barely starting.
00:26:16
Speaker
And that wasn't who, I think the other thing is like, that is not an uncommon. So there are pockets inside evangelical Christianity in particular, where the homeschooling environment is filled. It is a space where that dynamic is very real. And that was not, those were not our people.
00:26:28
Speaker
She wasn't even walking when you graduated from high school.
00:26:45
Speaker
And that was not your plan. That was not my plan. It was not my plan. And so it felt very disorienting. And just a little like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing here. I think what's beautiful, and I still have my journal is right there.
00:27:14
Speaker
When you wrote that, I was so surprised. And it's been a minute, but there have been multiple times where I have read through that daily again. And it's typically in a season where I feel unmoored. I'm cresting a new wave, and it's like, I feel really out here and really alone.
00:27:39
Speaker
I think what's beautiful was that your intuition was to weather this, I need to get more present to it. To weather it, I need to sit with it and I'm going to write about it daily. Not in an all-consuming, this is going to take over my life kind of way because you didn't have that luxury. You had too many things, too many people to be present to.
00:28:07
Speaker
But for 10 to 20 minutes every day, you sat and were exquisitely present with what was feeling like, this is gonna overwhelm me.
00:28:22
Speaker
And then it gave that gift back to me and I think to each of the girls where it's like I can always go back to that for my own. I don't even know how to be present right now. Let me hold up a mirror back to myself of how my mother navigated change and sees me, saw me and sees me.
00:28:45
Speaker
I think that was part of my hope and I and I found like I'm I'm into I'm more than halfway through Ellie's journal at this point. I mean, because we're into the last we're almost done. But again, like without planning, you know, for me part of the process of like walking with each of you to that
00:29:11
Speaker
milestone moment of graduation, I just found myself acutely aware of who you each were.
00:29:23
Speaker
and kind of inevitably, you know, remembering like who you had been and how that was still true. And then also what had become uniquely you and wanting to name it and bless it. So yes, that like you would have it, you know, you would have, because I think
00:29:47
Speaker
For all the ways that each of you has matured and your lives have unfolded into something, there is still things that are just intrinsically true about who each of you were from the start. Before anything came that tried to shape you or
00:30:16
Speaker
you know, Mars something in you or before you were scared of anything. Like there were things that were true. Um, and I, and I, yeah, I think I just, I want you each to know that I don't know what you'll do with it, you know, but
00:30:36
Speaker
But even at my age, even today, I find myself thoughtful and curious about what was true about me before the other things, before
00:30:49
Speaker
Because I really do believe that we're born into this world with unique goodness, that God has stone into us. And that somehow that's meant to blossom and then take us into wherever it is that we're meant to intersect the world with what we bring to it.
00:31:19
Speaker
Well, I love and I'm so inspired by how Faithful Eve walked out with each of your children in each, according to who each of us are this season. So like Ellie's getting a book just like I got a book, but you didn't have this pressure to give everybody a book because that's what you do. You know, like you just, you've been so gentle with it and it's really been about each
00:31:47
Speaker
child. And I think that's what's so lovely. And you did it. You saw it all the way through.
00:31:56
Speaker
I love my 42-year-old self who had no idea. I had no idea, no idea. Lots of capacity and really could not have known what it was going to be. As I was thinking about, I could picture me 17 years ago in the expedition with Ellie driving to get your, that was not hard to remember.
00:32:24
Speaker
And it was just kind of like, okay, I think this is the next right thing. So I'll just, I'll do this. And, and I, good for me.
00:32:37
Speaker
for me listening to my gut and following what it told me to do. I'm so glad I did. I'm so glad I did. For each of you girls, that ended up being something that felt like the right thing to do. Not the thing I had to do, but honestly, by the time it was time to get it for Libby, it was like, I remember doing this, I'm going to do this again. I'm going to do this again.
00:33:06
Speaker
Well, I hope you enjoy the last few weeks of writing, because I know it's only a few more weeks to go. Yeah, we're almost there. Almost there. And I'll be there at graduation to be next to you when she walks across the stage. You will. You will. So that'll be wild.
Closing Thoughts: Longing and Presence in Family Seasons
00:33:30
Speaker
We'll be drinking. We'll be drinking.
00:33:33
Speaker
We will be celebrating. I love you. Love you too, honey. Bye. That was such a beautiful and tender and gracious and loving and wonderful conversation. I feel like
00:33:56
Speaker
There is an exhale in my spirit along with a sigh, the exhale of relief at the fact that Tracy has launched her kids into adulthood, that Ellie finally took her spot on the adult wall. Along with the exhale, I felt when Katie mentioned that this season of waiting was growing on her, that that could be an invitation to
00:34:25
Speaker
I also feel a sigh, a sigh of nostalgia and longing that they both expressed, a sigh of what could be.
00:34:36
Speaker
what might never be or what will be. There were so many times in this conversation that I got goosebumps. One of those particular moments was when Katie talked about this feeling of being left behind. She said, people are moving on without you and their lives are moving into a space that yours is not moving into.
00:34:58
Speaker
That felt like tugged in my heart because our family is also in a season where we feel left behind. We feel like our friends and families we're around are just moving on with their families growing, having more kids, and we're here wondering what is for us. What does the future of our family look like?
00:35:25
Speaker
So if you're there, I hope that you can hold that moment and I hope you can hold whatever you're considering tenderly, just like Katie mentioned. I found myself visibly smiling when Katie and Tracy were going back and forth about the words people say. Like, are you guys thinking about starting your family? She said, are you thinking of jumping off a cliff spoken in love?
00:35:55
Speaker
That felt real to me. So thank you for naming that out loud. One of the questions I want to pose to you that came out of the conversation about Katie's story was that question at the end. What if there is time? That question that Aaron's presence invites Katie to consider. What if whatever is
00:36:21
Speaker
on your list of things you're waiting for? What if you ask the question, what if there is time? What if this world is a little more expansive than what you had imagined? Might you be able to imagine an expanse rather than what feels scarce and urgent?
00:36:46
Speaker
And then as they transitioned into Tracy's piece and their conversation, I felt the a lotness that they talked about, the too muchness of Tracy's story. And I also just wanted to like cheer 42 year old Tracy on because I feel that tug and I am trying to just parent one child. I also felt the tug of presence.
00:37:14
Speaker
The story that Tracy invited us into is this ebb and flow of being present and trying and not knowing what to do and holding toddler toys and sippy cups while also trying to walk your kids across the graduation stage.
00:37:34
Speaker
I love the invitation to presence. I often want to numb out or move away from hard things as I'm parenting or feeling the weight and pressure. But when Tracy said the line to weather this, I need to get more present to it. I love that. Being present to the feeling of being overwhelmed. Wow. That is profound.
00:38:04
Speaker
Is there any way that you might move toward the too muchness in your own life? How can you be present to something that feels overwhelming or too much? What would that look like for you?
00:38:21
Speaker
I loved this conversation. Opposite sides of their stories, but I felt like the tie was longing. Longing for a season of a family to come. Longing for children to blossom into their inherent goodness. And ultimately, longing to be present to it all. May that be so for you too. Until next time.
Podcast Credits and Acknowledgments
00:38:49
Speaker
The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by Katie Stafford and edited by Aaron Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson, and our guests are all part of the Red Tent Living community. You can find us all at redtentliving.com, as well as on Facebook and Instagram. If you love the stories shared here, we would be thrilled if you left us a review. Until next week, love to you, dear ones.