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Honoring Your Body with Katy Stafford and Tracy Johnson
85 Plays1 month ago
To be human is to have a body. We each negotiate our relationships with our bodies: at times fraught, and at times more self-accepting. Mother/Daughter Duo Tracy and Katy reflect on their own relationships with their bodies, particularly in their current seasons of post-menopause and pregnancy. Together, they approach their bodies with curiosity and gratitude. Join them for a different kind of conversation around seeing and celebrating the body that has carried you here today.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to Red Tent Living Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Katie Stafford, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. Each week, we share stories with the hope of seeing one another a little better and affirming each other across different seasons and perspectives. We're excited for you to join us.
00:00:32
Speaker
How are you this morning? Good, good.
Honoring One's Body
00:00:36
Speaker
Ready to talk about bodies, honoring your body. How was reflecting on this for you this week? Interesting. i You know, I wrote a piece like three or four years ago that all that I'll read. um As soon as you and I sort of said that we were gonna do this, I was like, oh, I'm gonna read that.
00:01:01
Speaker
i I was with and um a very dear friend this past week and um we spent the day together and shopped and, you know, got lunch and kind of all the things. And um and she is, you know, both dear and exactly my age. And we were we were driving to get brunch and she said, I've decided that we're eating again. Eating is what we're going to do because were grandmothers and like women about to be 60, and it's no longer time to be a size you know whatever, and she named a particular size. and and I laughed, but it felt like it goes to what we're talking about. and and As she and I continued to talk, it was like you know what it was it was sweet to to name like how
00:02:00
Speaker
Do we want to honor that we are in a different phase of life? we are in a different phase of life.
Navigating Societal Pressures on Body Image
00:02:09
Speaker
And um I think part of the whole reason you you and I are gonna talk about this today is because we both know we live in a culture that has a lot to say about bodies, a lot of pressure on on um on what you should eat and how much you should exercise and what you should look like. And you know are you strength training and are you taking the right supplements? ah
00:02:34
Speaker
oh all the things, just so much noise. um and it did it It made me smile. you know She was like, we're eating. I've decided this is what we're doing now. We eat. We're not going to we're not going to pretend that we shouldn't have um curves and that our belly should still be flat and because because it's not it's not honoring is what I'm going to say, um at least for she and I. so i I don't want to sound judgy for other women, ah you know but I think the question is pertinent um and valuable. and and yeah so i I'm here for the conversation um for sure.
00:03:27
Speaker
reflecting on i mean I've been reflecting on this for a few weeks and I knew I would be talking about because I'm pregnant, I'm in a different season with my body where it's doing things it was made to do that are a little unknown to me, right that I am meeting my body in new ways.
00:03:50
Speaker
um and just experiencing that body in new ways. And so that has very much been the space that I have been living in. ah Reflecting on and trying trying to embody, trying to sit in and pay attention to and listen.
00:04:06
Speaker
And there it can be like, ah speaking of expectations, pregnant pregnancy and motherhood is another space where there's a lot of opinions and expectations around your body, right? Like, what are you eating? Are you working out? Like the vitamins that you're taking, are you doing vaccines or aren't you doing vaccines? Are you going to be breastfeeding or aren't you going to be breastfeeding? And what are you like, are you,
00:04:35
Speaker
strict about all the rules? Do you ever have a glass of wine or don't you? Do you ever eat deli meat or don't you? do and And everybody's a little different and it it can feel like when you add when you had a child into the mix, I feel like there can be a judginess and a protectiveness that spikes even higher, right?
Pregnancy and Body Image Expectations
00:04:56
Speaker
Because it it takes a lot of differentiation to be able to sit in your own body with the choices you made for your body and not write those onto another woman's body. Well, and I think, uh, I think, you know, in, in particular, what you're talking about, you know, we, we start to, we start to tip into like, is this a moral issue, right? Is it totally morally wrong? And when you add that your,
00:05:26
Speaker
When you add that you're carrying a baby, I think, you know, it can become even more charged because it starts to, it does start to feel like there's some moral value that's getting established to the decisions that you're making around all of those things. All of those things I can, and and that feels, um you know,
00:05:49
Speaker
that That goes back at least 60 years because you know when when my mom had me, formula was pretty new. That was a new thing. And like the thing you did for your baby was you gave it formula because this this was the new thing.
00:06:08
Speaker
oh Which is so interesting, right? And by the time you came, i they you know, there were women that were doing both. And I wasn't able to breastfeed any of you. Tried really hard. And that wasn't exactly something I wanted to talk about with people. Why are you battle feeding?
00:06:30
Speaker
Oh, well, because my body has failed me. So, you know, that that felt pretty, pretty tender and uncomfortable, for sure. But all of that to say yes to, you know, what what you were just naming.
Social Media's Role in Body Image Perception
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, oh, when I when I think about I've had to, we all have to continually reclaim our social media scrolling, right? Like, because we all know at this point, it's toxic and not helpful. And the number of times I've found myself where it's like, I'm tired, I don't really want to read a book. And so I do find myself just, I am wanting to kind of like, check out a little from my day and scrolling.
00:07:18
Speaker
there, there can be some really I do believe that all of these messages, just like, just like with exercise, just like with food, like, they are getting weaponized and marketed in such, such a targeted way, right? Like, I'm getting really specific messages that often make me I can feel the invitation to feel fear, or to feel shame, or to feel guilt, or, and the product that would alleviate or the action that would alleviate that emotion. I think that that is a strategy that has come at all bodies, but especially women's bodies in pretty pronounced ways in our culture, I think.
00:08:04
Speaker
um i i think the the And and and there there is a bit of this tide that has turned. there are certainly ah you know like i I can think of ways that I have felt and seen the objectification of men and their
Objectification and Its Consequences
00:08:22
Speaker
bodies. So that that is that is part of the moment that we are living in.
00:08:27
Speaker
And um there there is something about the the history of the objectification of women's bodies that we're talking you know, back to the beginning of time. And so, ah you know, it makes me wonder a little bit, Katie, like that that experience of ah your body being objectified um certainly comes with shame. and And then, you know, we begin to enter the realm of of trauma.
00:09:03
Speaker
And and we we you know we're learning more and more that that there's something of the experience of trauma that that alters your body, even at a genetic level, altering DNA. It makes me it does make me sort of wonder, it's like, <unk> what has just been passed down to us um by this point in time as women?
Marginalization and Body Image Pressures
00:09:32
Speaker
that predisposes us to um the the feelings of unrest and unsafety in our own bodies with our own bodies. And I wonder if we can extend that even I think about the degree of like there is a marginalization that women feel in their bodies that I think extends to some other any marginalized body is yeah having a pronounced sense of unrest and hostility and don't quite fit the ideal whatever that is. Right. um That feels like a very nearly a cellular attack, right? Like that there is something deeply wrong with me. And that that has expression in all kinds of forms, whether race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, like there's a there is a large table at this point of bodies who are different, who
00:10:32
Speaker
feel on an acute level like something might be wrong with them. I can remember when I used to teach about sexuality, like, you know, 15 years ago.
00:10:43
Speaker
oh part of Part of what I would talk about oh was for if you have known trauma, if you have had experiences of trauma around sexuality, then just going to the grocery store can feel terrifying because You've known what it is to to be sexualized or objectified and so it feels like it's happening all the time. You know, someone someone's eyes catch you across the apples and and you can feel like you're being violated.
00:11:20
Speaker
um And so as you say that, right that there is like like there is so much like in the air right now that that tell um that tells people, like you you should be feeling unsafe. Yeah, yeah absolutely.
00:11:40
Speaker
so This is an important conversation.
Emotional Journeys in Pregnancy
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah. And you and I have considered a facet of it for each of us. You want to go first? Sure. You want me to? No, I'm happy to. I called my piece made for this. like It's a morning in November. There's a chill in the air and I've thrown on an old college sweatshirt over my pajamas before beginning any morning routines.
00:12:08
Speaker
20 weeks pregnant, the college sweatshirt still fits looser around my midriff than any sleep shirt does. I remember my mom was wearing an old college sweatshirt the day she explained to Allison and me that she had had a miscarriage.
00:12:22
Speaker
I was four or five, and I did not fully understand, but I knew that a baby had been coming, and now a baby was not coming. And I could sense that my mom in particular was not okay. This was clearly not how things were supposed to go, even though mom had told us that sometimes this is what happens. That was the first time I ever remember hearing the miscarriage talk.
00:12:53
Speaker
but not the last. When all was said and done, my mother had five miscarriages and five babies. God picked five and five of us. Life or death by what felt like a cosmic coin flip. This first time pregnant, my body has not miscarried, though it felt hard not to hold the coin flip in my mind each morning of the first trimester.
00:13:20
Speaker
In those early weeks, I felt a constant tug of war to stay in my body and come to know how she carried this baby and to pop into my mind and focus on tasks outside of me until what I considered to be the danger window passed.
00:13:38
Speaker
that That window did pass, but it did not bring a resolution to my relationship with my pregnant body, more of an unfolding coming to know her.
00:13:51
Speaker
In my sweatshirt and pajama pants, I posit the bathroom vanity to apply a body serum to my belly. I'm not afraid of stretch marks, but I also thought it might be good for a minute each morning to to tend to the skin that is stretching as I grow so my son can grow.
00:14:12
Speaker
I press the dropper across my abdomen and rub gently from the top to the bottom and from side to side. As I massage the lotion in, I press in my fingers to the upper left of my linea alba to feel those tiny butterfly kicks from within. With an interior placenta, I have a natural shock absorption right now for my son's kicks and movement. But often here in the early morning,
00:14:40
Speaker
and at the spot where he likes to rest his feet, I can push and wait, and he will push back. My whole body has come alive to growing this baby. My breasts are larger, as are my thighs, and in the morning hours, my emotions often feel larger too. I'm quicker to tears or irritation.
00:15:02
Speaker
Just this week, a miscommunication with a nurse during an early morning blood draw brought tears stinging to my eyes where six months ago, I know my response would have been simple clarification and curiosity to ensure we got the solution sorted out together. But on this day, I felt overwhelmed at the possibility that what we were doing might not be covered by my insurance when I thought it was. And I asked to postpone the draw until I talked with my doctor directly.
00:15:32
Speaker
My doctor who is sharp and kind and candid and trustworthy, not Barbara who wandered in in her cupcake scrubs. In general, I am less trusting right now. Of strangers, at work, I'm hypervigilant for anything that stings of potential apathy or incompetence.
00:15:55
Speaker
and quick to react to, compensate for, or protect against it. This escalation in watchfulness at first felt disorienting until I realized that the work my body is about right now and the stories my body carries around the precarity of birth leave me both vulnerable and activated to protect.
00:16:18
Speaker
with eyes that drift to sleep naturally while reclining on our couch at 8 p.m. watching a show with my husband, and a lower back that starts to ache if situated in the same position for too long. My frame and stamina have very different limitations today than in the days when this body ran a half marathon. We're doing different work, my body and I, and to compensate, my body has empowered other parts of herself.
00:16:46
Speaker
mind, hormones, emotions, to amp up their protection for me and for us, my body and my baby too. This is a new season of blessing and tending to a body that I am both intimately familiar with and coming to know in new ways. I've wanted to be intentional with my body right now, never saying, this isn't me, when I find myself embodying behaviors that surprise me.
00:17:17
Speaker
but rather acknowledging this is us today and finding room to discern what my body is responding to in order to keep my baby and I safe. All our bodies carry stories, both lived and inherited. Meeting my own stories around pregnancy and birth with kindness is a new practice. It's an act of listening.
00:17:42
Speaker
so I can love this body well and trust her to carry me through a season that feels fierce and fragile and intimate.
Vulnerability and Self-Rediscovery During Pregnancy
00:17:53
Speaker
How do you feel after hearing yourself say it all out loud? I think I was aware as I was, it felt It felt really good to write it all down. um Just like it's felt really good. You and I had a conversation on the phone just a few days ago where a lot of this got expressed and more. And the speaking of it is really powerful because like
00:18:20
Speaker
If it's just sitting inside of you, I think writing is pretty powerful as well. But really like speaking it aloud, I think makes it feel a little less crazy making otherwise you can feel like you're you're renegotiating your relationship with your body in some ways that you're maybe not even totally conscious of. And so to bring consciousness to it is helpful.
00:18:48
Speaker
Well, and I think, well, it's all just inside inside your head or maybe even just inside a page that only you have access to. thats There's a lot of isolation in that. Yes. you know um no And your your words at the end, you know fierce and fragile and and intimate and um those,
00:19:17
Speaker
Those are pretty powerful emotions to be feeling fierce and fragile and in intimate, intimate space. Um, so it just, you know, there's, so I think there's so much power in, in speaking, speaking your truth and speaking your experience and speaking your story out yeah and having somebody bear witness to it.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah, agreed. Aaron, my husband has been a pretty constant witness and definitely an affirming voice. Like as the emotions are feeling big, just saying.
00:19:58
Speaker
while your feeling is OK and you're not too much. and Because it it feels like too much. Because it feels bigger than it's at. It's like the emotions aren't invalid. But the the range, the like magnitude of the ocean the emotion, like the earthquake level is higher than I'm used to. um And like welcoming that.
00:20:22
Speaker
Same thing with tiredness. same thing like it's just All of the limitations are different and choosing a thread of self-care is new. well and The thing that you said you know and a minute ago about oh the ah the blood draw and how you would have reacted to that you know six months ago versus how you're reacting to it now. and so I think the the emotions feel bigger and and and the inability to contain in the way that you are used to um or maybe even sort of ah the capacity to like deescalate yourself in the way that you're used to, you know, that it it feels a little unnerving and kind of disorienting.
00:21:17
Speaker
It's like, yes I don't feel like myself or maybe I don't feel like the self that I come to know most. yeah i can remember I can remember after you were born being in a conversation with Uncle JR at the time because we were trying to figure out, we felt like the responsible thing to do but was to make a plan for where would you go if something were to happen to us.
00:21:47
Speaker
and i And you were not very old, like six weeks maybe. you know But this was these are the thoughts that you're having you because you're suddenly responsible. And and i I can count maybe on one hand, for sure on one hand. I don't even know if I need a whole hand to count the number of times I've cried with my brother. And and I was so emotional, like could not not be emotional.
00:22:16
Speaker
um and felt very unlike myself.
00:22:21
Speaker
and and i And I think maybe in actuality, you know what's true is that you're just becoming more of yourself. it's ah It's a part of yourself that you didn't know was there, but now now you do. Yeah. And maybe, like I have wondered if it is just I do feel like I'm treating myself differently than, like I remember the first time I went on birth control, I went on the pills and I had very strong opinions about being on those pills because I could feel the fluctuation in my hormones and I was feeling manipulated. And I was like, this isn't me. i'm i'm done And I just shut it off rather than this time.
00:23:10
Speaker
I have been really trying to be careful and intentional about like, this is me and the nexus point is genuine. And so I'm feeling it bigger inside, but this is me.
00:23:27
Speaker
and almost wondering if I am reconnecting with someone younger and more like if like a vulnerable because I'm vulnerable again if perhaps I'm going back I'm coming back and returning to vulnerable pieces of me that I've just learned how to contain and manage and you know like not at this point, not as an adult, not maliciously not but like, well, these are my strategies and the strategies don't work anymore. And so like, rather than having this fuck up energy, being like, huh, apparently, this is what I'm feeling. And so can I sit in it? And can I let other people see it? Because I that is what is happening more often is like, I am
00:24:19
Speaker
brimming out and like other people can see what I'm feeling and can I be okay? Yeah, it's interesting as you so as you say all that, i I find myself thinking about what was true about you at two and at four um and and still at six and and I can remember when when that started to shift in you. But I just i ah have very vivid memories of how sensitive you were.
00:24:57
Speaker
Um, and not in a, not enough fragile, kind of a like meltdown. You were not a child who had meltdowns, but you, but, but I can remember the tears pooling in your eyes over something that, um, you felt hurt or you felt scared or, um, or you felt like maybe you've done something wrong. Um,
00:25:22
Speaker
and and you were quick to, quick to feel those things and and to let them show for sure. um Yeah, I mean, and I think as as there were more children, you know, like after Steven was born, I think you, the dynamic in our family started to change in some ways.
00:25:52
Speaker
Um, simply by nature of how big it was. And even beyond that, cause I, like, as you're saying that it's like, I remember a couple of times, like as happens in elementary school, but like where somebody said something and I felt caught or embarrassed or, and my response was tearfulness in my eyes and learning that I did not like, I didn't feel like showing that.
00:26:21
Speaker
ah That wasn't always met with wasn't always met with kindness. Right. and so i I think there were things happening inside our home and I think there are things that happened to every little sin that were happening outside the that we you know causing me to develop some of these very competent, achieving, present put together.
00:26:47
Speaker
strategies that my my body definitely can still rely on those, but is turning to some like turning to some younger, yeah maybe truer forms of release that actually are they are an invitation to comfort, right? Because like with a kind heart, seeing those tears like there can be a lot of nurturing that like my body actually needs that it's indicating that it needs.
00:27:21
Speaker
Um, that I am learning to receive for the first time in a long time. Cause it's like, I have not been showing those tears for a very long time. Um, and so that has not been getting, it's almost, I feel like it's like a hushing and a rocking of a, of a little person, right? Whereas you're not fixing it. You're just being with it. You're just soothing it. I feel like my body is.
00:27:46
Speaker
but requesting that more often. Well, and it's all, you I think that all all of pregnancy is is a preparation also in and of itself, you know. um your Your capacity to be with and to hush and to comfort, you know, is is I think intrinsically tied. You offer that when you're when you're able to experience it and and it comes from a place in you that has known that. And and there is you know that there is something about the vulnerability of pregnancy that sort of creates the need for that long before the baby's here. Attunes you in a different way to what it looks like to offer that. Right. Yeah. Totally.
00:28:44
Speaker
i am i I smiled. I hadn't thought about my Baylor sweatshirt in a long time. But I know that's exactly what I was wearing. um Yeah, that was so and you know, and Katie in the realm of what we were talking about before you read your story, just that, you know, that that trauma that gets passed down, I this was a little bit different. But it's like, yeah, I mean, you
00:29:16
Speaker
You've both heard those stories and you have memories of several of the miscarriages that I have.
00:29:26
Speaker
I mean, it made me, i it didn't surprise me, um but i I think I feel this sadness that, you know, your your first trimester was marked by something that um that's that's tied to what you knew because
Impact of Familial Narratives on Pregnancy
00:29:46
Speaker
of me. And and I have often said you know that that um The first time I was pregnant, which was my first miscarriage, I didn't have any fear. I didn't have i had no reason to believe that I needed to be worried about anything. And you know for for eight weeks or so, it was pure bliss and until it wasn't. And it was never that way again for me because once I had miscarried, I owe i miscarried i always knew it was possible. And I think I just feel sad.
00:30:20
Speaker
I feel sad that that passed down to you. and of And of course, I mean, it makes sense, but I could feel the grief of that as you were named. I think I know it. I think I know it so intimately through our family and through the sheer, your story is a little unusual in the number. Yeah, yeah, how little it is. And like, it has been a season.
00:30:46
Speaker
close friends and acquaintances who have been yearning for babies, have been miscarrying. And in know I'm very grateful. I feel like we are in a season where those stories are a little more public. Like people are naming their grief, not everybody.
00:31:03
Speaker
but that just that amplifies it too. sure Like where you're you're present in it with others sure and so it can create this heightened sense of like truly it is just and pregnancy is a lot of feeling, a a degree of powerlessness, right? And there's surrender in that where it's like, there's magic happening, right? Like there's, there's beauty. And so there's a little bit of a goodness of like yielding to that and there's, and there's precarity where you're like, not a lot I can do here set be present to it. For sure. Hmm. Yeah. I'm glad you shared it. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. I was glad I got to talk about it with you.
00:31:52
Speaker
Yeah, me too. Me too. All right. i I will read something from the from a from a ah different time than the one you're living in. I like it. Black black spandex leggings spanks hug her tightly. The wide waistband at the top stretches across her abdomen, smoothing and holding her core.
00:32:18
Speaker
On top, she wears a long black-sleeved top, silhouetting her curves nicely. The rest in burgundy-crushed velvet flowers covering the duster make a bold statement as she walks. The wide waistband of her black leggings covers the places that have borne the cost of becoming a mother.
00:32:38
Speaker
Hidden beneath them are the signs of what it has meant to carry life and death inside of her. The scar from an emergency C-section stretch marks from a belly that has expanded to its full capacity five times. Separated abdominal muscles and softened skin that is no
Motherhood, Age, and Body Perception
00:32:55
Speaker
longer able to contract as tightly as it did in her youth mark the space of her core.
00:33:01
Speaker
Her legs are strong, they've walked across foreign lands, climbed mountains, carried children up and down stairs, and stood for hours in airports and also retail stores when her work required them to. Her arms, slender, long, and deceptively strong, have held much over the years, juggling infant carriers, pack and plays, picking up toddlers well into her forties, kept them strengthened.
00:33:27
Speaker
Walking across a college campus, they toted a 12-month-old in one arm and boxes she carried to her freshman daughter's dorm room in the other. When they opened wide, the duster drapes from them elegantly and invitingly. These same arms have held and hugged women across the globe, and they are part of her signature. She is known for her hooks.
00:33:49
Speaker
Her once blonde hair no longer has highlights. Instead, her gray hair is coming in white in some spots and she wears it boldly and naturally. It too is becoming a signature. Women stop and notice and comment on the color. She's always had freckles and today they are accented with age spots. Her skin has become just a bit creepy in spots on her forearms and thighs.
00:34:15
Speaker
Her eyes look much as like as they always have, no wrinkles or crow's feet yet. And her neck has started to take on a family trait passed from her great grandmother to her mother. And now to her, what was once firm under her chin has lost some of its collagen. She has been faithful. She has grown and matured and weathered the battles she has had to fight. She has served tirelessly and without any serious illness or disease.
00:34:43
Speaker
In the past 15 years, I've chosen Black for her, although she deserves to be more brightly celebrated. It seems easier to look at her in the mirror and notice what has changed, how she's grown, where she's aged, and how time and gravity have not been generous to her. I examine her with critical eyes that see her through a lens of contempt. I'm seduced by the lie that Black hides her flaws, soothing the shame that can speak loudly when I am in the company of other women.
00:35:13
Speaker
The statistics around body image for women in my age category are sobering. One study cited 83% of women dislike their bodies. As I consider my own experiences with other women, that statistic feels true.
00:35:31
Speaker
Rarely do I gather with women around a table when the conversation isn't laced with subtle or overt body distinct. It manifests in comments about dieting, exercising, or self-deprecating words about how they look. Why do we generally feel dissatisfied and contemptuous towards our bodies, and why do we seek connection over it?
00:35:54
Speaker
Hilary McBride, a wise voice, wonders, what if each of us were already enough and gaining weight, losing weight, stretch mark, gray hairs, wrinkles, cellulite, weren't things we were afraid of or had power over us, but were things kind of like hair color that maybe we noticed but learned to work with?
00:36:14
Speaker
accept and even enjoy because they were unique about us. I believe we can change the trend and shift the dialogue and invite something kinder that promotes blessing of our bodies and it begins with me.
00:36:27
Speaker
I'm committed to staying in my body and learning to be kind to her, her curves, her scars, her stretch marks, her skin that sags, the age spots that are becoming more plentiful, her graying hair. These are all things I want to welcome and bless, not resist and cover or torture with deprivation. I confess it is a work in progress. Some days it comes effortless effortlessly and I bless the image in the mirror. Other days I succumb to the seduction.
00:36:57
Speaker
Today, I'm choosing a recently purchased coral dress from Target. I will welcome myself in the mirror and work to choose kindness throughout the day. Perhaps you could join me. and I love that. Oh, it all feels true. Yeah.
Body as a Signature of Identity
00:37:18
Speaker
the I think that piece does a really beautiful job of articulating the full range of a body and the relationship with it. My favorite phrase was about, you know, ah it was in reference to your hair, but like in a larger sense of like your body becoming a signature piece, something you're known by, something iconic. I just thought that was, I mean,
00:37:43
Speaker
it folded in so beautifully. We, our clothes are such an inherent, perhaps the most intimate form of self-expression, right? Like what you wear is how you're telling everybody and indicating who I am. um And you know, you started with the clothes and I know the outfit, like I knew exactly which outfit you were embodying there. And then it shifted to how your body does the same. And I just thought, I was like, that's such a,
00:38:13
Speaker
kind and present way to like remember that your body, you use the word faithful. Your body is faithful. Like it's it's held the whole scope of who you are. right And it it evidences that.
00:38:34
Speaker
was interesting. I mean we were just with you in Michigan and Libby was with us. We got home and Libby said it was so interesting to see Katie's pregnant body and ah she said like I looked at her from behind and I thought oh that's how mom got the shape that she has now. Her shape changed.
00:38:59
Speaker
de It was, but it was just, I mean, she had a few more particular words about it. And it was just, it was like, I don't, but it's, it's true. Like there are some things about you that change that don't go back, you know, that aren't about losing weight. They're just about right. What happens when you carry a baby, but it was so funny to listen to her.
00:39:25
Speaker
say that. ah and And she sort of talked about it in a you know kind of a signature like, you know, in a signature way. um Yeah, that doesn't Libby's always been in my mind, the most just very observant, very observant, very curious,
00:39:47
Speaker
And throughout my pregnancy, she's been the most invested in questions about like, what's changing? What's changing in me? What's changing about me? How do I feel about the changes? And I can tell like she both cares for me wondering how I'm doing, but she's also observing for herself. Cause she's like, this is a body I'm watching live change at a more rapid pace, like relatively speaking.
00:40:17
Speaker
pregnancy can bring a set of rapid changes. but when she Because she and Ellie have no memories of that. You watched my body change right you know four times, but for sure three that you remember.
00:40:32
Speaker
right Right, exactly. But that's so interesting. How did it feel to you to read this piece for four or five years later? What's the same? Are there any amendments that you would make any new learnings?
Embracing an Aging Body
00:40:49
Speaker
I think it's interesting, Katie, but i'm I'm in a season, you know, three years later, I would say, ah I feel more I have have settled into this aging body even more than than I was probably three years ago. um And so I'm grateful to say I think I feel yeah more peace.
00:41:17
Speaker
um And ah yeah, and I think just I think more more at rest. i um i i don't i I wouldn't want to be an age different than the age I am now. And I can't say that without like from the space of embodiment. i I wouldn't want to be an age different than I am now. um
00:41:48
Speaker
When I feel, you know, I feel pretty aware of like there are more, aside from pregnancy, I think there are more bodily changes that I have experienced in the last, you know, probably seven years than any other time in my life. So there is something about like menopause and and then tipping into ah you know, what it is to be 60 soon. And, and just, you know, what I need to be taking in the realm of vitamins is different. And, you know, the things that I'm worried about having depleted in me are different. And the way that I exercise is, is different, like all of that, you know, and I don't think I have felt any of those things in that way other than, you know, when I was pregnant. So it's,
00:42:42
Speaker
You know, that that is different. I feel aware of that. I don't love that all the time, you know, because I don't i don't think any of us wants to sort of experience the fragility that comes with any any point in our life, you know, where we're aware that something's happening in our body that, you know, isn't just strong, confident, awesome. Yeah. Oh, totally.
00:43:08
Speaker
um I can pick a number of bodily functions that I've not been thrilled with recently. yeah right But I don't feel like I'm not at war with my body and I'm not at war. I am not at war with what I see in the mirror.
00:43:24
Speaker
What I feel like I'm hearing, it reminds me, I read an interview with Kate Winslet, who is a woman that I always love a woman who's aging gracefully. And by that, I mean like not not fighting to like stretch and tuck and cut and inject. But she said something about how could I not feel that women grow more and more beautiful as they come home to who they really are. And I think that's true. I think what I hear and what you're saying is it's like, I think there's a deeper know that knowing of like, what makes a body worthy
00:44:06
Speaker
and living into that worthiness and just that enough-ness and celebrating and feeling at home in all of it. I think that's true. i don't i There have been seasons in my life where I have looked back at pictures and thought, oh, I wish I looked like that again. I i don't do that now. you know i i don't i I look at pictures and I look at myself in the mirror today and I'm like,
00:44:35
Speaker
i I like what I see today. I'm i'm not yearning for some place in the past. and And I think it's largely what you've just said. I mean, I think it's the i think it's the fruit of choosing to continue to come home to myself more and more.
00:44:58
Speaker
um yeah And there's just a lot, there is a lot of rest and spaciousness in that. I'm curious, as you're holding the space of like, you've talked about this, you talked about this in an episode a couple of weeks ago, that more and more you're the oldest woman in the room. Not exclusively, but i I wonder if you have wisdom or wishes for people who are listening, who are younger,
00:45:28
Speaker
who are maybe not feeling all of the sense of acceptance and welcome that you have accessed in your journey, what might you say? them I mean, probably the the first thing I would say is just what we what we were just talking about that, you know, the the work of coming home to yourself. And and then we can we can talk about that a lot of different ways. you know there's ah There's story work that that brings you home to yourself, kind of the the you know exploring more of the story that you've lived in the body that you're in.
Intentional Body Care Practices
00:46:05
Speaker
I think um i think spiritual direction can be part of that, but there has to be some some process
00:46:14
Speaker
that you're being intentional about that is taking your your external experience and and how it's impacted you and and causing you to wonder about what it means to to inhabit like your internal self more.
00:46:35
Speaker
what whatever whatever you choose to do around that. And and then I think the other thing is like making the choice to to stand in front of the mirror and and and begin to engage what you see there from a posture of blessing, which means then you're going to notice what is it I can't bless? What is it I feel resistant to or I feel disdain for or I find myself, you know, pushing it in or flattening it, you know, having a critical eye. and And then I think starting to wonder for yourself, what it what is the story of that part of your body? Yeah.
00:47:21
Speaker
What is the story of that part of your body and um where where has it come from? I was going to say the practice I picked pretty early on that like.
00:47:35
Speaker
It's like this organic body serum, whatever. But like the practice of touching and rubbing in something to care for. Like that was something that to me felt like it was probably going to be important. And I think it is. And I think if you take a moment to care for a part of your body that's changing. So you're watching it. You're like.
00:47:55
Speaker
All right, like I there's a beauty here. I don't know that I'd call this my most sexy, fierce self, but like to be navigating that relationship with care and nurture for that part of your body and touching it daily feels like that choice to examine yourself in the mirror, right? And to be doing it not with critical eyes, but with a I'm taking care of you just like you're taking care of me.
00:48:23
Speaker
and touching it. It's different. It's different to touch it, just like it's different to speak your story out loud. I think you can i think you can transform your relationship with your body. yeah And I think you have a relationship with your body.
00:48:44
Speaker
and And I know for me, you know, the the the spot on my body that is the most, you know, um sort of unseemly, it carries the it's the, it's the scar from from Libby being born and and what all of the skin that stretched all of those five times does in relationship with that scar. You know, I mean, and I could,
00:49:14
Speaker
I could spend the money and go have that surgically taken care of. like that That's out there. And I know there are women that have made that choice. And for and for them, that has been a kind choice. That has been part of like receiving and caring and tending to the body that they live in. And and so, goodness, bless that. um For me, that choice to stand there and begin to engage that story of my body and to and to notice what did I have disdain or disgust for and begin to
00:49:52
Speaker
like work with that you know for me that led to a different place and and it led to you know each time i noticed that i i i bless it and i'm i am grateful that is there because your sister is a alive that's what that reminds me of every time i see it she's alive and i'm alive and thank god for that and And I will bear that and wear that proudly. um Because it feels like, for me, it's evidence of life and goodness.
Exploring Personal Body Stories
00:50:27
Speaker
And it doesn't produce distraction inside of me that that i can't but like I couldn't move through.
00:50:36
Speaker
um and And for another woman, it could be a very different story. It it could be that the being able to bless it and and and name it as goodness, even though maybe the circumstances around it are the same, but what's needed in her body is different. that's That is good also.
00:50:56
Speaker
that is good also But I do think that the to just to just do surgery and not have explored the story of your body around why you're having that surgery, I don't know that that leads to the same goodness. Yeah. Because I think it's storied and I think the story think the story is the point. I think God wants to meet you in the story and where what happens next with your body, that may be very different.
00:51:26
Speaker
Yeah, i I feel like from our conversation, that's what I'm carrying into next week is my body is telling a story and like.
00:51:38
Speaker
I get to read it, right? Like I get to read and pay attention to that story and respond to it and be informed by it and tend to it and trust it, like all of those things, first and foremost, like that, that is what my body is here for. And i I think hearing you name, but you know, um kind of the the becoming that's happening, or maybe a better way to put it is the returning that is happening for you as you realize that there are tender parts inside of you that you feel more aware of right now as you're pregnant. That was a that was a good reminder.
Conclusion: Trusting Our Bodies
00:52:25
Speaker
to me and I think I'll be thinking about that this week too as I can feel more tender parts of me just just the reminder of like that this is this is good and this is me yeah good to be with you and and with you as always love you love you The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by myself, Katie Stafford, and edited by Erin Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson, and all our guests are part of