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The Journey of Advent: Conceiving of Hope in the Darkness with Katy Stafford and Tracy Johnson
97 Plays18 days ago
Welcome to the first week of Advent. This is a season of waiting and anticipation: a season of leaning into the hope that God is with us and God comes to us again and again. In the coming month, Katy and Tracy reflect on what advent means for us today. Inspired by Mary's journey as a pregnant mother, we examine advent through the various stages of carrying and birthing life into the world (whether physcially or metaphorically). It's a series of Christmas conversations unlike any other, and we hope you'll join us on the journey! *Trigger Warning* This episode engages the biblical story of Bathsheba and her experience of sexual violence.
For journaling prompts that coincide with this episode and walk you through each day of advent, sign up at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Katie Stafford, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. Each week, we share stories with the hope of seeing one another a little better and affirming each other across different seasons and perspectives.
Entering the Advent Season
00:00:22
Speaker
We're excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table. Hello. Hello.
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Advent. How are you entering this Advent season? Such a great question. Um, I feel hopeful and excited about, you know, some of the things about this what you and I are doing. And then I also, I feel pretty aware of, um, of the need for, but you know, like light in the darkness. So I think Advent is always timely.
00:00:58
Speaker
But i think I just feel i think aware of places in my circles of engagement where I hear women articulating you know what's feeling dark to them right now in light of ah you know a myriad of things that are true in our world.
00:01:16
Speaker
so So that's definitely part of where I find myself coming into Advent. And then also aware just like for our little family, for us, you know, that coming into this Advent doesn't include sort of an eye on we will all be together for Christmas. You know, so.
00:01:38
Speaker
It's not that that's never happened before, but it's happened. And so I definitely have an awareness of that, that, you know, sometimes kind of that joy that pulls you through is tied to something that's going to happen as everybody kind of comes together. And I know that for us, that's, you know, that's just different this year. So that's how I'm arriving. How about you? Yeah.
Pregnancy and Christmas Significance
00:02:06
Speaker
I've been anticipating, thinking, Advent's been on my mind far earlier this year because, because I'm pregnant and I did the math, I was like, I get to be pregnant during Christmas, which is
00:02:23
Speaker
like this might be the only time that happens in my life. Even if we that there's a possibility, you know, depending on the calendar, like this could be a one-time thing. And that felt significant to me. I was like, I don't want to miss it, right? Like, and so with all of the all the tiredness with all of everything that's going on, like as you and I thought about Advent,
00:02:46
Speaker
like I had hopes about like, let's go through these weeks, because I feel like I'm in different space than I've ever been. I'm curious to read what other women write about this space that I maybe haven't read before. And to just sort of map a little more intimately what a birth life cycle has to say to all of us, whether we're birthing babies or we're birthing dreams, like what it has to say to us about what it means to co-create something in our world.
Creating New Traditions
00:03:23
Speaker
So that was very
00:03:27
Speaker
present and I'm excited for what each week is going to bring um as we look at this and I think I also like as a twin to your comment about you know Christmas and all gathering together like the part of Erin and I not being there is a part of that choice, right? Like we're creating blank space to start to lean into what do we want for, as we bring life into this world, what do we want this season to be about? And that comes with a sense of loss. Like there's, there is like to create
00:04:09
Speaker
to create like to um fertile blank soil. It's like you've carved out a space of your garden to be a little empty for a little while to plant something.
00:04:21
Speaker
um So that's, I think like you, there's like a ambivalence there and an intentionality I'm hoping to lean into in some of those emptier spaces for Christmas, not just falling into the familiar traditions and joy of like, oh, we're going, we're going to Texas. That's the big thing we're doing for Christmas. It's like, no, right we're building something a little more quiet this year, the two of us. And and maybe for years to come.
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah. that that I think in so many ways, Katie, it embodies but what's true for everyone if you are staying awake, coming into Advent. No one no one is walking into Advent feeling only joy.
00:05:16
Speaker
I think that's a that is a unique phenomena of children and of not all children. Like I definitely consider myself lucky for how long Christmas and the Advent season really was like pure magic and anticipation. um And there's always something really sweet about seeing childhood hope and wonder And holding that in the same breath, there are lots of kids who look back at Christmas time or lots of adults who were kids that look back at Christmas time and go, yep, nope, that was not a wondrous season in my world. Right. So there is a lot of messiness to this season. And I think that's something that, like, as you and I started diving into this, we were acutely aware of.
Ideal vs. Real Christmas
00:06:09
Speaker
It's interesting, isn't it? Wow, that is true. You know, we all want, I'm thinking about like the Christmas movies and songs that we listen to at Christmas. And there there is this, there is this overarching energy that wants wants whatever it is to give way to something that feels good enough, redemptive enough, beautiful enough, that it kind of takes away what whatever the suffering has been. It's like, well, there was this, there there is this hard thing. There is, you know, the family that didn't have enough money and the family with the mother or dad that's got cancer or not getting to go home for Christmas. And then at the last minute they do like whatever it is unto this point that, that kind of, you know, is the hallmark moment that everybody sort of wants. And, um, and, and I think, you know, what, what,
00:07:07
Speaker
we're discovering and what we'll start talking about here is um that it's actually not linear like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's everything all at once. Yes. Yeah.
Mapping Life Creation with Advent Themes
00:07:22
Speaker
So as we mapped this out together, we picked stages of life creation, right? We picked conception and caring.
00:07:35
Speaker
and labor and delivery for our four weeks. And those map on in some pretty interesting ways to the more traditional advent, which is hope, peace, joy, love. And I think we're looking at how those intertwine together. But as we as we talked about conception, we also talked about like lineage and where you come from On this one in particular, you had thoughts about who our woman from scripture that we should sit with should
Bathsheba's Story and Hope
00:08:13
Speaker
be. So I want to talk about who you picked and why. Yeah, you know, as we started, I think we we both felt drawn to the lineage, like the the names of the women that we find in Matthew, because there are only a few.
00:08:31
Speaker
um that are actually named. And so I've always found that list to be really interesting. And and for right now, you know, I chose Bathsheba and I chose her because as i as I have started to look at her, the rabbinical tradition that King Lemuel is Solomon making his mother Bathsheba, meaning that Proverbs 31,
00:09:01
Speaker
would have been written by Bathsheba. And in that sort of, you know, a standout line in Proverbs 31 is that strength and dignity are her clothing. And i when I read that the first time, holding an awareness that it was written by Bathsheba, I began to look at Proverbs 31 differently and began to wonder how is it that this woman with the story that that we know that she had came to then say strengths and dignity are our clothing because she was stripped of those things and I mean we can talk about that more but but that was sort of you know for me it's like it begs the question like so what is hope
00:09:50
Speaker
And hope is what we need we need when we have known the reality of suffering and powerlessness and betrayal and and and you know things that produce despair, honestly. And so I think that Bathsheba in many ways embodies the energy of hope.
00:10:16
Speaker
Yeah, not necessarily that she's got a hopeful story. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just saying, I think she embodies some of the energy of hope. And in the birth, death, life cycle, she's been on every side of it in every direction to get to her place in Matthew one.
00:10:39
Speaker
Right. Yeah, right. So let's yeah, let's give her some context. Like what did you as you think about hope, and as you think about especially the like spark of life, the moment of conception. What were some of the things that you were sitting in in Bathsheba story? I mean,
00:11:03
Speaker
You know, as as it as it relates to as it relates to her relationship with David, you know, the the the question of conception is wedded with power dynamics, deceit, how she's taken and and brought to him. Like there's nothing, this isn't a romance. Right. Yeah, Bathsheba shows us that life can start from violence.
00:11:31
Speaker
um often does. um And we can talk about maybe her later children with David. I think that's a question mark. I think you have you've done some digging there that I think is interesting, but certainly if you're going to tell Bathsheba's story, you have to halt and be in the space of conception born of violence violence and powerlessness and rape.
00:11:58
Speaker
Well, and I write and i think think it's also, it's like it it begs us to just enter into what who who is this woman and what what is her context? And that the text gives us, but it identifies that she's the wife of Uriah the Hittite, which is interesting also because ah her her naming, and I think Will Gaffney talks about this in Womanus Midrash, that The way that Bathsheba is named, it she is identified in relation to the Hittite people. The text doesn't really reveal like her ethnicity or the ethnicity of her father, but it identifies her husband, which ties her then to the Hittite people.
00:12:45
Speaker
and um and and then And then we don't know from there. So there's our speculation. and There is speculation because the name that's listed for her father is also listed elsewhere of one of David's mighty men. Okay. Possibly. But I think either way, what I hear you say, so she's either a foreigner. And so that comes with marginalization, right? Like a Hittite living among the people of Israel.
00:13:12
Speaker
Or perhaps her father is one of David's mighty men. And in in that tradition, like as I've read it, if he is that man who's named, he's one of David's top advisors. And so like you would think if you were Bathsheba in that sense, you might have a sense of safety. And so like the pronounced harm she feels in being robbed and taken because David can take whatever he wants. Like that is profoundly violating. So either way, this is a woman who's known a deep loss of like a sense of autonomy and belonging in her home and in her community and in her country.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think we we could we could go on wondering and speculating about whether she is whether she is a Jewish woman. ah she Is or is she Hittite? If she is Hittite, then her value in in a Jewish economy is less. When I look at the boldness of what David is doing, I tend to and to land you know in the perspective that I think she was Hittite. No one
00:14:30
Speaker
her. No one's going to fight her. Exactly. it's not it's not goingnna It's not going to garner attention. Yeah. Right. This is just just the life of a soldier. Nobody's going to care. It's interesting. you know i I have also you know the work that that that tries to be done around how did it happen, and is Bathsheba somehow responsible for seducing David? We're not even giving that any airtime. No. Right? but it's just it's can't it just It cannot be. It cannot be.
00:15:08
Speaker
and And if you dig in again, if you look in the the support for that, and it feels important because, you know, Katie, like you've heard that story, I've heard that story. It is a largely, sadly, the story told most often in the evangelical circles that I have been in. And it it diminishes what what actually is there in scripture. If we look at how the prophet Nathan and how God treat Bathsheba, it is not as an adulterous. Right, right. That's not how she's talked about. In fact, all all of that, all of the sin is laid at David's feet. Bathsheba is not condemned. She's not named as complicit. There's nothing supporting that. And there is everything supporting that this was David's action.
00:16:07
Speaker
David saw, David took, David violated. And in our modern context, the um the idea of well-loved, um religious, upright, righteous men of leadership who take is just all too familiar. You can't be a woman in a pew of a church and not know that story personally, whether it's happened to your body or to the body of a mother, a sister, a friend. Like we've all lived a version of Bathsheba. Like Bathsheba's story, that's in our cells. If you have been a part of, sadly, the Christian faith tradition.
Complexity of David and Women's Rage
00:17:00
Speaker
for sure. I think that some of the rage that women feel today is in part tied particularly like in church spaces is in part tied to the fact that these stories, this story hasn't been told honestly. So we haven't looked at what actually happened, how the confrontation happens, what then happens with David and so And what is it that makes him a man after God's own heart? Because all of it is true. right All of it is true. He does this. It's horrific. It's terrible. It happens. He repents. And he is a man after God's own heart. And that's a lot of complexity. that doesn't It doesn't erase the fact that he's a man after God's own heart. It does not erase that he he is also part of a story of trauma.
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah. For his wife, for his daughters, for his sons. Yeah. For his nation. Well, and I, I'm thinking about in this moment, like, as I also have womanist midrash, and I was brushing up on Bathsheba for this conversation, and Will Gaffney talks about, and this this is sort of these are the messy tension points of if you follow this faith tradition, if you look at the biblical text as sacred, that David's punishment is not experienced in its his own body. It is experienced by everyone around him, right? It is experienced in the death of the child born of that. It is experienced as future prophetic
00:18:44
Speaker
tellings that his wives will be raped. Nathan says that his family, his dynasty will know violence. that it Those are the words. so like we When we talk about Jesus, when we talk about the lineage, theyre we're quick to jump to a Prince of Peace.
Violence in Jesus' Lineage
00:19:03
Speaker
But like here in Bathsheba's story, we know that Bathsheba was a part of a lineage of violence because David perpetuated violence. And that is also the space that Jesus enters. Yes. Yes. And so Jesus is born of a lineage that has no generational trauma passed down from one generation to the next, to the next, to the next. and And you've heard me say this before, like, so the Prince of Peace, he is the Prince of Shalom. And I
00:19:46
Speaker
wholeheartedly believe that he is the Prince of Shalom shattered also. And and that is what we've just named, right? this This thread that we can pull through of violence and betrayal and rape and suffering and like that that runs all the way through from starting starting before David, but certainly like this this is, and Jesus is is born into that, and he is named the Prince of Peace. So not because he comes from peace. Right. Yeah, he certainly doesn't.
00:20:30
Speaker
You did deeper digging on all of the women and like there there are pretty pronounced signs that each of them, Ruth, Rahab, they experienced sexual trauma. Yeah. And I think, you know, the inclusion that it's like women are and who represent all myriad of stigma.
00:20:53
Speaker
that has been used and weaponized against women. These are the women that are included in the lineage and I believe they're there because of what they mean in God's economy and what he is actually saying. What is it that Jesus is actually here for?
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah, as you as you say that, so as I was in this space, i I have this beautiful book that has all of these um illustrations of Mary um by Janet McKinsey. And the book is written to have devotionals alongside it that are written by female theologians. And so the first image is the Annunciation, and it's Mary and Gabriel. The writing is um by a woman, Mary Hadad, and she noticed something that I have never noticed. And I'm just going to read a quote that she said.
00:21:55
Speaker
do yeah She writes, the word will become flesh in nine months' hints if Mary says the word. Just as creation began with words, let there be light, so will the new creation begin with words, let it be so. The enunciation must be followed by a scent. Words, words, words. Mary has to say something for the word to become flesh.
00:22:23
Speaker
And when you think about the lineage that we've just talked about, And the sort of remarkable interaction between Mary and Gabriel,
Mary's Consent and Bathsheba's Voice
00:22:33
Speaker
right? We've seen, we have seen angels show up in scripture and if there's questioning, there's doubt, if there's clarification, sometimes those angels are a little heavy handed with like, this is what's happening. And that is not the case with Gabriel and Mary. Mary is perplexed. She's asking, how can this be so? Gabriel expounds and then Mary says, okay.
00:22:58
Speaker
Let it be so. And the divine engages in a consensual way, waiting for Mary to say, I'm in, we can do this. That is wild. And marks a strong break from this pattern where women did not get a say and lacked the chance to. Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker
yeah yeah Yes. oh When we look at Bathsheba, she does not speak a word. We do not have a single word attributed to her until 33 years after Solomon is is conceived and born. It's 33 years later.
00:23:49
Speaker
when David is dying. And and another son has like said, the throne is mine. um And Nathan comes to Bathsheba to tell her that and says, you you need to remind David of his promise to you.
00:24:11
Speaker
um And we don't we can't find that promise. like There's not ah an exchange where we read, but but the text and what happens tells us that it did it was there. Nathan knew about it. Bathsheba knew about it. She goes to David and we hear her. Words are attributed to her where she says, I am asking you to remember, you made a promise to me.
00:24:37
Speaker
and And the promise is about Solomon, but the promise is also about her. Because what would happen typically, right? There are all these sons, there's all of this rivalry and all these wives. Right. And so if another son ascends the throne, then the the mothers of all the other sons have no value. Like all of a sudden their security is at the mercy of whoever is sitting on the throne. Right. And the safest thing for that person to do is to kill them all. Right. Like, right. Kill any threat. and the right Yeah. Right.
00:25:20
Speaker
And so there is this moment that it it almost feels like Bathsheba saying, you promised after all, after what you did to me, what you took from me, my husband, my life, my safety, my security, like you promised. And David, David remembers, David remembers.
00:25:43
Speaker
And interesting then after that, what we see, Bathsheba comes in to speak to Solomon in 1 Kings 2 and we read that Solomon bows down to his mother, receives her and sets up a throne next to his. And she's the first queen of Israel. She is. It begins with her.
00:26:08
Speaker
And at last, that tradition of a Queen Mother lasts until the end of the monarchy for Israel, the end of the dynasty. And it feels as if Bathsheba moves from a woman with no voice who's taken, raped, her husband's murdered, her first son dies as a punishment for David's son, to a woman honored and seated on a throne.
00:26:34
Speaker
That's a huge transition. Huge transition. And as you think about her as the author of Proverbs 31, I've always loved you sort of recenter that in your reading.
00:26:47
Speaker
not from ah a, what is it, for a ah just woman who can find who who can find a virtuous woman. And what I love is like, you read it where you're like, who gets to find, who gets to be with a virtuous woman? And instead it's Bathsheba's exhortation to her son, be a good man, be a better man.
00:27:16
Speaker
than who you came from. Right. i mean and And I think, Katie, again, like to say that Proverbs 31, traditionally, we started verse 10. And I think most women feel like it's been weaponized. Yeah. Oh, totally. Who measured that? Right. That's nuts. So for the sake of our conversation, i'm gonna I want to back it up, and I'm gonna and i'm going to read it.
Proverbs 31 and Bathsheba's Teachings
00:27:45
Speaker
OK, cool. So if we go back to Proverbs 31 and we start at verse one, the words of King Lemuel, the utterance which his mother taught him. What my son and what son of my womb and what son of my vows do not give your strength to women nor your ways to that which destroys kings? It is not for kings, O Lemuel. It is not for kings to drink wine.
00:28:15
Speaker
nor for princes intoxicating drink, lest they drink and forget the law and pervert the justice of all the afflicted. Give strong drink to him who is perishing and wine to those are bitter who are bitter of heart. Let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. Open your mouth for the speechless in the cause of all who are appointed to die.
00:28:42
Speaker
Open your mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy. Now let's just hold that in light of what David did to her and of what he did to her husband.
00:28:57
Speaker
And it's interesting, Katie, because the the word that is used when she says, do not give your strength, and this is so fascinating to me, because this word that's used for strength there has more than one meaning based on how it's parsed out in the Hebrew. But it can't, and it comes from a similar root, but here, the way it's used here, it it is used elsewhere when that's like military strength, like the force.
00:29:26
Speaker
It's used when we talk about like like an army in the terms of a host. So I think there are other options for strength. David actually uses another word for strength when he charges Solomon with what it is to be a good man. And so I think she chose this word intentionally because of what it's tied to. And and then when she says, who can find a virtuous wife?
00:29:53
Speaker
That's that same word parsed differently. And that's where it means a valorous, a courageous wife. and the And the root for the word comes from a word that is like most often used to describe what happens for a woman when she is laboring to give birth. There's like a writhing and a pain, a strength that's required, courage that's required.
00:30:25
Speaker
to birth life. Who can find a life-saving woman? Right, right. And it's a man of integrity. It's a man who speaks on behalf of the poor. It's a man who doesn't get drunk and abuse his power. it's It's a man who listens to the marginalized woman. it's right yeah right I read another Midrash like of of Proverbs 31, and part of it was talking about, if we read verse 11, where it says, the heart of her husband safely trusts her so he will have no lack of gain. She does him good and not evil all the days of her life.
00:31:05
Speaker
Is she talking about how it was for her to be Uriah's wife and who she was when she was Uriah's wife? This is also, it's this is used, this that word is used to describe Ruth. Boaz gives her that name because of how she shows up with Naomi, how she suffers, and then how she gives herself to do good on Naomi's behalf.
00:31:33
Speaker
And there it is, but like suffering and trauma. You can't birth life without that all being in the same breath, what you've known contextually.
Hope as an Anchor
00:31:47
Speaker
Well, and again, back to when do we need hope? What is the energy of hope? right It's an anchor in the hard places. like it It's where there's despair and darkness, and that turns an overwhelming sense of powerlessness.
00:32:03
Speaker
that uh that root word for for virtuous woman it also has it also includes with it like an anxious waiting a woman of valor a virtuous woman has known what it is to wait anxiously it's like a like a sitting up with a single candle, right? And you're like, I'm not up yet. And it's not that is a roaring fire. That's not safe that like that. it That is you. And you're like single flickering flame. And you're like, I'm not. I'm not giving up yet.
00:32:36
Speaker
The um Proverbs 31 is also written in the same style that's used in Genesis 1. And so it's poetry. It's a Hebrew poem. And each line of the poem uses each alphabet letter, each letter in the Hebrew alphabet. And you have to wonder, why did she write it that way? I don't think, again, it's meant to be weaponized. I wonder, is that is that in an effort to be sure that Solomon remembers it?
00:33:05
Speaker
He can stick an acrostic, you know? Maybe. So he remembers it. Or it's also interesting that there are 86 characters and that's the numerical value for Elohim.
00:33:21
Speaker
the name for God. Interesting. I kind of think that what this is saying is that a woman of valor exhibits parts of God but could never be all of those things. She cannot be God. Only God from A to Z. Only God, right, can inhabit all. And so instead of being read as we're supposed to be all of that, I think instead it's like it's a nod to what what only God can do and and to all of the different ways that a woman may embody parts of who God is and how he shows up. I mean that makes me think of like so again whether we are whatever life we're birthing whether it's babies whether it's aspirations whether it's good work towards justice like whatever it is it's about
00:34:16
Speaker
co-creation. It is not about being the end all, be all. like Advent is about oh it is it is about the Son of God, but it's also about a woman who chose to co-create so that God with us could be possible. Because the God the god of this story lets women say no.
00:34:41
Speaker
And the God of this won story is revealed when women say yes, if they choose to. Yeah. And we don't, we don't know a whole lot about what happened in David and Bathsheba's relationship. You know, we know she had more children. We know that she named one of those children after Nathan.
00:35:02
Speaker
And we see, you know, there there is something we know of from start to finish. Nathan is an advocate for her. Nathan has a relationship with her. There's some speculation like might he have been fatherly to her because he continued to have access to her even as she was sort of cordoned off in the palace, removed from what her life had been before. And i and so i I think then, you know,
00:35:32
Speaker
We read Proverbs 31. We consider that those are her words. We look at how she is with her son and how he is with her. And regardless of what happened between she and David, something beautiful is birthed inside this woman who has known such violence coming against her. And I like your image of like, you know, the the small flickering single candle of hope.
00:36:03
Speaker
that flame, the simplicity of that, that makes room, that says all all all of this gets to be. So we're crafting a devotional to go alongside this conversation to dive a little deeper into what Bathsheba has to tell us. But I'm curious as we as we close our conversation for the day, like what are
00:36:32
Speaker
where are you feeling you need hope and what what are you carrying forward about hope because of Bathsheba's story? That's a great, great question. I ah sat with a ah couple, actually three couples just this week and and felt in their midst for each of these couples in some in some way. I was aware that I i was able to lend them some hope for where they are in their individual marital journey based on where I have known what it is to need.
00:37:18
Speaker
And so I think that's just, it feels like kind of an acute reminder today for me of just, I i know what it is to need hope. And I know what it is to have experienced the fulfillment of hope, like hope realized, which then gives you hope to win. um and And that's really all you can do, Katie. You know you can't give someone else hope. you can't You can't create it for them. You can't generate it in them. You can only lend them what you have known of hope.
00:37:56
Speaker
and they can decide whether they're going to borrow from you as they then sort of say yes to, all right, I will step into the reality that what I know is some sense of despair or stuckness or a powerlessness, some loss that that i I don't have, my hands are empty in that place. But I can borrow from what you're telling me of where you have known.
00:38:26
Speaker
something of the space that I am in that has given way to goodness. So I you know i i think in some um i think in some like probably way that I feel, despair is too big of a word, but like i i mean like we could talk about the political position our nation finds itself in. And and that that is certainly true, but I but i think in sign, it kind of like ah like a smaller kind of quieter way. what i What I find myself thinking about actually is like the question for me, what will it look like as you and Aaron build this life with this little one? And we're so far away. And how will that be? Because my heart would be to be so much closer and far more available and able and present.
00:39:27
Speaker
And that isn't how it is. And so I have have to choose hope for what I don't know about how that will be built.
Faith, Hope, and Love Interconnection
00:39:36
Speaker
And I have things to anchor to, you know, it's not like I'm without an anchor, but, but I'm aware of the need. How about you?
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, as soon as I asked you the question, I was like, it's funny when I have hope. It's like i I almost feel like I don't choose hope. It chooses me. It's like the world's just so dark. It does almost to me most often hope feels like a supernatural and irrational
00:40:14
Speaker
presence and it's just about keeping it lit and it is not hope is not unto what ah truthfully like um I almost feel like that's faith right faith has and what energy where it's like why there's an assurance at the end and hope is just possibility. Hope is just, I have not been left. This will not swallow me. My most recent season of hope was yeah Aaron and I, it took a while to get pregnant. And so every, the bluntly cadence of the emotions
00:40:57
Speaker
and the dreaming and potential expectation and then the feeling inside that, okay, it's not right. It's probably not happening. Okay, it's definitely not happening. It's not happening again. Will it never happen?
00:41:10
Speaker
Hope was really hard in that space because there's the verse that says, hope deferred makes the heart sick. Like if it just keeps going and there is no meeting and like, I see you, it's not even, it's not even that you necessarily need what you're hoping for, but you need the presence bearing witness to it and like, right.
00:41:33
Speaker
So that it's not just this unspoken ignored longing wasting away inside of you. So the tension of talking about what I was feeling, leaning in with safe people, because you don't really, it's still wherever you need it. You don't want to share that with everybody. It's too tender a place to share with everybody. Right.
00:41:54
Speaker
but exiting out of that. I can't even feel like a, okay, I'm inside now and I don't like, I don't even wanna re-engage where like, I still need hope. I still have worry. I still wonder. Anxious waiting.
00:42:12
Speaker
It's right. Yeah. What what will it be to birth life? What will it be for this child? What what will it be to do that far away from my mother? What will like, I don't know. This is all this is all different. And that Katie and that like, again, like, and that is a virtuous woman. A virtuous woman knows what it is to wait anxiously.
00:42:41
Speaker
lets herself feel. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And and i think you you you I think you really named this that like faith and hope are really sort of two sides of the same coin. we we they're They're different and they're not. They're interdependent. Yeah. And you can you you kind of feel that, right? It's like, is this faith or is this hope?
00:43:07
Speaker
And faith is oriented towards the past and hope is oriented towards the future. And love is what we have in the now. It's what grounds us. Yeah. So the place to sort of swim back to in the swirling of the anxiety and the not knowing and the feeling out of control is this like, okay, and I've known something of God in the past. I can remember that.
00:43:36
Speaker
and And I will hope that he will be that way again. And in the meantime, i I have to ground myself in love. Yeah, totally. And that's, that's what we're going to rest in until next week. It is. And so, ah you know, so the invitation is really like, how, how will you light your candle this week and let it flicker and invite you to, to notice maybe wrestle and, and welcome hope in the ways that you can.
00:44:08
Speaker
I like that invitation. Me too. Wow. The candles and seeing you next week. The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by myself, Katie Stafford and edited by Erin Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson and all our