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The Courage to Stay with Heather Stringer and Rachel Blackston
97 Plays1 month ago
How often do we think of bravery as the courage to "go and do" when in reality it often takes just as much courage to choose to stay put? Therapists and mothers, Heather and Rachel share stories with each other of courageous moments when they chose to stay put. Mindful of the care they offer themselves and the stories they live out in front of their children, these two women consider the less obvious sides of bravery and kindness. Join them for this warm and inviting conversation.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to Red Tent Living Podcast with Katie Stafford
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Katie Stafford, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. Each week, we share stories with the hope of seeing one another a little better and affirming each other across different seasons and perspectives. We're excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table.
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome to another week on the Red Tint Living Podcast.
The Courage to Stay: Intimate Moments with Children
00:00:31
Speaker
This week we're hearing from two lovely women, Rachel Blackstone and Heather Stringer. Together these two brilliant, funny, kind souls have a conversation about the courage it takes to stay. A lot of times we think about in our lives the bravery involved in going and doing something big and grand, but Rachel and Heather tell a different story together. One focused on small intimate moments with their kids.
00:01:04
Speaker
I hope you enjoy the conversation this week. I feel like Rachel and Heather's relationship as therapists and their insight as mothers is really a gift. Enjoy.
00:01:22
Speaker
Hi, Rachel. Hi, Heather.
Face-to-Face Meeting Excitement
00:01:25
Speaker
It's good to finally meet you. I know. I feel that way, too. I've just kind of known your name, followed your work, and so it's just fun to see you face to face. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's always funny how you can know so much about a person without it actually meeting them. I'm like, it's so true. three girls You have three girls, right?
00:01:46
Speaker
okay ah huh is i know I feel the same way about you. oh Well, I actually, you know what, I did sit in a couple of years ago, you did a beautiful with the red tent women, I guess a ritual of sorts. I mean, we went through, I think it was during the COVID season. I remember it was so powerful just really going through um several different senses and textures and getting um in touch with our bodies. And so I guess I did see you face to face then. Okay. Yeah. I think that's, I think I was like peeling a carrot at one point. Yes. I remember. I, you know what I remember is the dark chocolate, actually ah the really experiencing the dark chocolate in my mouth. Yes. It's so good.
00:02:32
Speaker
Well, and you know what, that's ah like sweetness. um Tasting sweetness actually forms memories. So that's a that that ah that lines up. That lines up with why I remember it. Yes, that's really neat. And probably because we needed we needed like a lot of dark chocolate during that first. Oh my goodness. I know. I know.
Healing in Hawaii: Rachel's Journey
00:02:55
Speaker
oh Well,
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to engage with you on this whole idea of staying in the work and the courage to stay. I would love to hear what you wrote. Okay, sounds good.
00:03:15
Speaker
A familiar ambivalence arose in me as I embarked on a 12-hour flight to a tropical paradise this past July. My parents generously offered to take our family to Hawaii. The mere decision to travel with them exemplified the goodness of staying in the healing work. Five years ago, it would have been precarious to accept their generosity, stay in my body, and hold on to both the reality and beauty of who they are and who I am.
00:03:42
Speaker
I began to sense a feeling of hope as I stepped foot on the islands formed from the volcanic fiery depths below, whose lava faithfully renews and expands the landscape with each passing generation. They seem to sing a song of beauty to ashes, one I know all too well. Upon arrival, I was immediately captivated by the warm hues of the sunset, contrasting the rich volcanic soil and the cobalt blue skies. The Aloha spirit welcomed us, holding a love and respect for its people, its visitors, and the sacred land. As we prepared for this trip, my daughters watched a documentary called Surf Girls Hawaii about a group of female professional surfers who grew up on the north shore of Oahu.
00:04:29
Speaker
The North Shore of Oahu is famous for some of the most dangerous waves in the world, like the Banzai Pipeline. We were enamored by the grit and spirit of these female surfers. In the winter months, the North Shore waves rise up to 20 feet, contrasted with the summer months when they are calm and inviting. We spent an afternoon as a family swimming in the waters of the Banzai Pipeline, imagining the strength of these native Hawaiian surfers.
00:04:55
Speaker
That same day, we visited Wamea Bay, also on the North Shore, and found what locals call the Big Rock. It stands 30 feet high and has become a popular spot for cliff jumping. My husband and three daughters began the trek to the top of the jagged black rock and then plummeted plummeted into the ocean. I watched with delight as they progressed from jumping in a pencil formation to attempting front flips.
Bravery in Self-Respect: The Cliff Moment
00:05:21
Speaker
I was capturing the experience contentedly from the sandy beach when my youngest daughter said, mom, come with me. It's so fun. Why don't you try it? I'll take you to the lower spot. With hesitation, I followed her on the narrow path, scaling the rocks to the top. I felt hesitancy mixed with an ancient feeling of not wanting to disappoint her. I feared the soreness in my neck that might ensue from one jump, impacting the rest of our trip or even worse, causing a migraine or serious injury.
00:05:51
Speaker
When I arrived at the top, my body began to shake and I felt trapped with a line of people forming behind me. Then a mothering voice from inside of me emerged. You don't have to jump from a cliff to be brave. You are brave. This is your body and you have boring scars. You have choice on whether you jump. For years, I have felt like I don't have full ownership over my body, often positioning it in places and situations to placate others.
00:06:20
Speaker
At that moment, I turned around, kneeled down and looked at Charlotte's face and said, Sweetheart, thanks for inviting me to jump up here, climb up here and jump. It looks like so much fun. I found so much joy in watching you. However, I don't wanna jump and risk being sore for several days. Okay, that makes sense, Mom. Do you need help on the way down? If not, I'm gonna go up to the higher one. You got this, Charlotte. I'll see you down below, I said as she turned and proceeded up.
00:06:47
Speaker
These words from inside held great magnitude for me. I was reminded that the goodness of staying in the work is about small decisions and listening to this new kind voice emerging from within. While the work of healing for some would have been risking the risk, would have been taking the risk to plunge their body into the glorious ocean, or like the surfer girls to surf pipeline, for me it was honoring and caring for my body by saying no. My body filled with relief as I returned to the sand.
00:07:17
Speaker
I didn't walk down with shame, but felt pride and acceptance and loving and honoring my 46 year old body. Perhaps the way we see strength and how we measure victory shifts as we age, as we listen to our bodies and take ownership for the voice inside. yeah Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. How are you as you finish? Yeah, I think I'm surprised by the emotion. Yeah.
00:07:46
Speaker
Um, that the story, uh, I just felt really present with that moment and just really felt just a lot of gratitude. Um, just the feeling of there, there was something as I was walking up those rocks. It just.
00:08:02
Speaker
It was like, oh, I have to do this. I have to prove to my daughters that, you know, I'm a mom that's going to engage and take risks and felt quite a bit of pressure. um And so then this kind of voice inside me that offered some liberation from that pressure yeah was really, was really relieving. Well, it it sounds like, I mean, it was like a ah a volcanic moment, you know, all the pressure that was building. And then all true expectations. And then I just was thinking about that line of people. Oh my word, Heather it was so long. I was like, wow, everybody is waiting to jump. And I'm getting here shaking. right right And it's like, like the spewing would would have been to like jump. Yes.
00:09:01
Speaker
And it ended up being something so different. And I i i mean, one, like I can't I can imagine you've you've had to do so much work, personal work to be able to tolerate that moment.
00:09:12
Speaker
of tens of how many people are waiting for you to to do this thing and then the meaning that's maybe being made if you don't. oh And so I just, there's something so remarkable about how you could find yourself in the midst of all that tension and just say to to respond differently. like to me this This is such a ah moment of like how faithful you've been to your life.
00:09:42
Speaker
is what first comes up. Thank you for seeing that. um Yeah, that means a lot. And I think I yeah i felt that. I mean, i I just felt so grateful for it. And I felt you know like maybe even five years ago, there would have been so much shame in walking back down. Like, oh, I didn't do it. like I don't have the story to share.
00:10:09
Speaker
um And I do remember kind of looking to my left and my right and not seeing a ton of middle-aged women like taking this jump, which I do remember being somewhat, somewhat freeing and liberating. Like, oh, okay. Like I am 46 years old and one jump could, you know, I mean, I could have a headache for the rest of the trip, you know, cause I tweet something in my neck and um Yeah, just that bravery was redefined for me in that moment. It didn't have to do with taking the physical job.
00:10:47
Speaker
and Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, I think i i'm I'm like, and I'm thinking of stories that are similar to yours. And I'm where like, I make this very distinct and decisive decision. And this doesn't follow me in that. But um' I think there's something about that moment where you're in the tension. You're also not that you're aware of this, but there's something of like the faithfulness of your, of your faithfulness to your life is like building stay in the tension. But then like you being very clear.
00:11:27
Speaker
to your your daughter, which Charlotte? Yes. Yeah. Like you were just so clear and and holding the tension and allowing her to know like, this isn't for me, not because I'm not long enough or or brave enough because this is this is not what I need to do right now. no But I think that's part of where I'm like, how how did that how?
00:11:51
Speaker
to be that clear. I don't know. I don't know what you want to do with it, but it's part of part of what comes up as I hear you. Well, I've never even in writing this piece, I never really thought of it of being a volcanic moment, which is so powerful when you said that. But it fits because there's this pressure relief when the decisions made. And then I'm thinking that Charlotte's like has a lot riding on this decision, you know, like this sense of is my mom brave enough to do this. You know, will she join me in this moment? And so her response was so surprising. Like, it's okay. All right. That makes sense.
00:12:34
Speaker
hey So yeah, it's like to get to the moment of clarity was, you know, sort of the volcanic moment. But then, but then like, you know, the eruption is It wasn't what I, you know, it would it was for me inside of me, but it it it didn't actually cause this big moment like, oh, mom, come on. You know, it was like, oh, okay. Well, I'll keep on doing what I'm doing. And you know, it's like, okay.
00:13:07
Speaker
yeah Great. And yeah, I think that, I mean, it sounds like the little that you kind of let us know in the beginning of the story around, like you being able to say yes to this trip with your parents. Yes. It's a really a big deal. It really was. Yes. And so just like how often when we choose to stay with ourselves, the consequences have felt like hot lava, like destroying those around us when in fact it's it's not like it's it's meant to be Charlotte where there's like this innocence and an honoring of oh yeah you you do you want help going down because I'm gonna keep it like you need to be differentiated here and we don't have to like
00:13:53
Speaker
merge in order to be okay. That is such a brilliant statement because I felt that. I mean, I felt that for myself, like I cannot let her down. I mean, that was what was building as I was walking up there. Yeah. And that was just so familiar to my life.
00:14:10
Speaker
and to differentiate and realize that it really is okay. it was And that she was just fine. I mean, it it was massive. Yeah. And tell her how you've mothered her too.
00:14:30
Speaker
She was able to say, I can be here for you, but also I'm going to keep going. Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that. and she did she went up to ah she She knew she'd taken me to the sort of shorter one, and then she was off.
00:14:45
Speaker
all going up higher. it So it's like, okay. oh And like, ah sweet moment. Like, I would imagine that's like, there's a redemptiveness to that, where you get to be strong in yourself as a mother, and you get to bless her as she gets to be ready, and take risks in her own way. And that like, both are okay, both are delighting in each other's bodies. and and so it's So it's such a beautiful story. oh Thank you and thanks for seeing that too because i I mean so many of the things that you have offered I hadn't even really thought about like the fullness of watching her kind of rise and me getting to be really really settled with going down and
00:15:33
Speaker
getting to, again, just continue watching this from the stand. I mean, I was just so happy to watch. So it was like, how did I end up heading up here in the first place, you know? but but the but the But the moment, the learning moment was definitely more profound at the top than it would have been at the bottom if I had just figured it out at the bottom and said, no, not today. So, yeah. Well, thank you so much. Yeah.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, thank you for yeah, just revealing such a such a moving story and even an invitation for all of us like as mothers or as middle aged women where it's like, there's there's goodness to be found at the bottom. And there's like, that's so good, Heather. And there's there's goodness about letting these young like bodies to express what we can. And I'm like, oh, there's like a grief in that. And there's also like, there's, there's a space for us to exist, you know, and that's so good. Yes. Yes. Watching them flourish, watching them. I mean, just, yeah. And how it just was defined really differently for me that day. And yeah.
00:16:56
Speaker
That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. oh Thank you. Yeah. Well, I'd love to. I'd love to hear your story. Okay, let me. mind Are you ready? Do you feel ready? I am ready. Yeah, I just feel I feel close to just tenderness here around like the invitation. Like I feel like as women.
00:17:25
Speaker
We just need more examples of of what it means to, I think, mother ourselves, but also how to how to age in a way that that brings wisdom and trust in our own bodies and in this next phase of what we get to who we get to be and how we get to be that is differentiated from younger girls and women and that it doesn't have to be this like, have to stay young, or I'm now washed up and I can't take risks anymore. It's like some of the messaging that I think comes through. Yes, I just feel so good. there's There's so much to be had and what we get to offer one another. yeah ah if I love that. And but I did. I love that contrast because I did feel that where I thought
00:18:12
Speaker
You know, I am so grateful. I got to go snorkeling and I got to climb Diamond Head. You know, it wasn't um like I was just standing there with a camera in my hand the whole time. I was engaging, but but I had to follow my body's limits. in Ah, jumping from 20 feet. It's not something that I really want to do in this phase in life. And yeah yet it didn't feel like I didn't have a have a place and that that I could bless what my daughters could do that is is is very different and unique from what I can do. So yeah, thanks for providing that kind of contrast. Oh, yeah, of course. Thanks for revealing it. Yeah.
00:18:57
Speaker
Okay, all right, i will I will bring up my story. I have to, didn't print it out, so hopefully this doesn't distract or anything. Okay.
00:19:09
Speaker
ah ah My two kids Amos and Iona and I were on a plane headed to Chicago.
Heather's Plane Experience: Choosing Quiet Tendencies
00:19:16
Speaker
We had been sitting on the runway for about an hour when some of the passengers were getting agitated. There was one woman who was particularly volatile.
00:19:25
Speaker
She heckled the flight attendants and spat curses at people who attempted to engage her. She was a pain in the ass, that was clear. But what was also clear was her mental illness. This woman wasn't well. Despite this glaring fact, a mob mentality formed on the plane.
00:19:44
Speaker
People started jeering at her, making fun of her, and name calling, which only escalated her hostility. I grew increasingly upset with how the passengers were ganging up on her. I was about to intervene when my son, who was sitting next to me, panicked and begged for me to not say or do anything.
00:20:02
Speaker
He was anxious, yet the moral pull to confront these people was putting me in a heated internal dilemma. Do I tend to my kid and forego helping this unwell woman or stand up for what's right and attempt to repair with my son later?
00:20:18
Speaker
As I looked at Amos, I saw a kid who was normally even keel and relaxed, dysregulated, and and quite frankly, desperate. I looked at the distressed woman. I heard the unrelenting name calling from passengers, but something inside of me receded from the turbulent scene. I decided to turn my head to see my son. This is where I need to be with him. I need to understand him, not get entangled with strangers.
00:20:49
Speaker
I let my body loosen and I returned to the seat. Relief washed over him. I asked him, tell me why you're panicked. He said, I didn't want everyone looking at us if he said something. Have you felt this book this way before? Yes, like when we had been on the bus or the subway. ah Right. I began to remember different scenes.
00:21:12
Speaker
It doesn't feel good when people are staring at us. Ah, I get that. I know the stories you're talking about. I didn't think about you and how that might have felt all the eyes on you. I don't like it, mom. It feels horrible. I'm so glad you're telling me this and I'm so sorry for ignoring you and your experiences, your face. We continue to talk and repair the prior times I forgot his face as my moral imperative led the charge.
00:21:40
Speaker
My adaptable and easygoing child was showing me something sacred. His inner world, a world he often keeps close and contained, was available for me to see and know. I felt twinges of grief over his experience and my choices. Grief over how it took him panicking for me to see him.
00:21:59
Speaker
As I chose to look at his face and hear his words, I was not only able to tend to his his anxiety, but I was reminded that my child needs a mama who will pursue him even if he appears to be okay. Yes, that pain in the ass woman deserves care and intervention. Yes, the mob need to be engaged, but not at the cost of Amos's heart and body.
00:22:21
Speaker
I was given the gift and task of mothering him, not the woman or the passengers. Sometimes staying and tending to the quieter, less dramatic places can be the real honest moral work we do. Staying allows you and I to remember what matters. It's the necessary crucible for grief and change and it's the vulnerable container for growing love. So beautiful.
00:22:47
Speaker
ah Heather, how are you just as you engage in that story? I i mean, i just i still I still feel the grief of what that moment exposed um in Amos, but then also in some of the ways that I've mothered. Like I know I'm a good mother and I also know that I have these these spots that you know I've been swept up in the drama of over here versus like this quieter drama that I think sometimes is like even hard to see in my son. Yes. And so yeah, I think, um, yeah, it was just a very confronting moment, but I'm also grateful. Even though it's like, duh, you should have chosen here your son, but it was like for me in that moment, it was a really big dilemma because I was getting sad of what was happening and and no one was intervening. Um, and yet like,
00:23:46
Speaker
I'm glad i I saw him and I'm glad I turned. And yeah, that's the grief over missing him other times. Yeah. Well, it's it was such a beautiful moment as you were reading and You know, it's like the camera angle, you know, I'm imagining this turbulence um and this, you know, all this volatile woman and this energy going back and forth. And then it's like it all fades away as you start to see Amos's face.
00:24:19
Speaker
Yeah, powerful. Yeah, I felt that too. And i and when reading it where was like all of a sudden, you know, when you're, when you're um taking off on a plane, it's like so noisy and loud. And then there's that point like 10,000 feet, where and like you're like, okay, we made it.
00:24:38
Speaker
At least that first and that's what it felt with him. where I was like, okay Here you are like all the noise Like it got quieted even though it was still noisy, but it was like this quiet Moment of of being able to just it's just you and me a Yeah. And then I could tell the safety that he felt. I mean, just, what I mean, to say like mom and then to recall some of these other moments and you're kind of, aha, aha, as you're kind of recalling them. It's just, it's, it's just such beautiful attunement to his personhood. Thank you.
00:25:24
Speaker
you know Yeah, I mean it Yeah, it's just I mean I just keep feeling the grief over i ways that I've missed him um prior and um
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, and I know that moment, it's seared into my heart as like a signpost for me to come back to to like remember who he is because he is just that adaptable kid. and yeah But ah I mean, there is it's just like a lot of grief of when I didn't stay with him. um It doesn't feel condemning. at least i don't yeah um And, you know, I just, I have so much respect for your bravery to engage in that grief because to me, when I read the story, I'm like, oh, of course, you know, in the sense of um you strike me as a woman who has been called to expose injustices. And, you know, you think about, oh, this has been a gift.
00:26:29
Speaker
to your kids to see that. And yet you have this other story in his little body that has been forming um that that that is somewhat illuminated that you wouldn't really otherwise have known about. Right. Right. No, it's so true. And it it brings like the complexity of what it means, I think, to be human.
00:26:53
Speaker
and in relationship with others. And then also then like you add like mother, woman, mother. um And it's like, oh, wow, this is not just a ah quick fix. Like this is what this is. you you You feel you see the moral morality and then you just go and you tackle it. You know, it's like, yeah, kind of attunement to all of it that is important and yet um complex um because yeah that's story forming in my son it's like that's that's where i first and foremost need to be that's like given and i need to tend to those first and foremost and then i can go out to the world in a way that i think i'm made for but yes yeah i just i think i've i sometimes i've had it the other way around
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, but it it is such a, you have this brilliant line in there that struck me sometimes staying and tending to the quieter, less dramatic places could be the real honest moral work we do. And I thought that was just such a beautiful, profound line.
00:28:06
Speaker
Um, you know, and and it, it really took that, I mean, again, just that moment of seeing his face. And then I love, again, your relationship with him where he just, you know, without any concern of offending you or, you know, it's just like, mom, no, I don't want it. I'm nervous. but You know, it's just, um I love his safety.
00:28:29
Speaker
and Yeah, thank you. I do too. I'm glad that its it's it still remains there. And then this kind of idea of um just that Amos, you know, tending to him even when he appears to be okay I thought was you know It sounds like he's a pretty laid back who um you know kid for the most part. Yeah, yeah know it felt like that was, like I think i as I was writing the story. um
00:29:12
Speaker
I realize it's it's it's like it's about this moment um and it's about the goodness of this moment what and what came out of it. But then also, it it did it does shine light on will I see him when he, because i I'm like, I don't want him to have to be panicked in order to get my attention. I think that was what like what led me to i need to, I need to pursue him even if he looks okay. yeah is i your're made He made me aware of, like there's been so many moments where he wasn't OK, but I didn't know because it wasn't super. Yes. And so, yeah, I think it was that was I wanted to like engage that part where I'm like, I don't want the replies to be panic. Yeah. And I love your heart too to see that and and and take this moment and, you know,
00:30:07
Speaker
and say like I don't want it to get to that place and yet it is again I just keep thinking I mean just the tenderness of the way that the scene and um you know and and I do think I have so much respect for you like you had eyes for this woman like there's a goodness in that like you had I mean she was a pain and you might have been the only person on that plane who had the you know, the wherewithal within yourself to step into a moment like that. And yet, um you know it it reminds me of second half of life where it's like there's so many, there's so much good. But where do we exert our energy? You know, like, what are the moments that we give our our full hearts to? Because, yeah, I mean, you, you at this point in your professional life, you have a lot of ability, I mean, you could have stepped into that. And yet,
00:31:04
Speaker
There's this invitation and beckoning back to your son's face. Yeah, absolutely. It's a good point. Yeah. And I think it's a point. I'm like, it strikes it strikes a chord in in my story where I think I've i've i've had good intentions and I've wanted to help and yet sometimes at the cost. And I think that's part of ah or at the cost of like what really is maybe mattering, whether it's like my own body or my son's body or my family. And I think, um yeah, I feel like that's definitely a family of origin place where I was asked to leave myself in order to do the right thing. um And yeah. I wondered about that because I was wondering if maybe even like,
00:32:04
Speaker
Um, the enjoyment of your own body would come from like more of this quiet moment with, with him, you know, opposed to like having to go and deescalate the situation going on on the plane. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, there's something of, like, if I'm really honest, there's something indulgent about stepping into the drama over here. Right. Um, and yet, and yet.
00:32:30
Speaker
And yet what was so gratifying and what was so, but again, a quieter moment was was between him and I, where I'm like, oh, this is so substantial. It has so much potential in us developing a deeper relationship and deeper understanding. um But it's it's a lot quieter. It's a lot less dramatic. Yes, yes. But I think that's it.
00:32:59
Speaker
interesting connection between our stories when I think about, because if I'm really honest, too, there's a part of me that wanted to have the video of me jumping in, you know, I mean, show my friends, like, yeah, sex and plunging into the ocean.
The Allure of Drama vs. Personal Connection
00:33:14
Speaker
I i mean, there is something indulgent about that for me, too. And yet there was a relief of saying, oh, I don't have to do that. And so I feel that for you. Like, I feel that like there. I mean,
00:33:29
Speaker
it It would be powerful to be probably the one person on the plane that could somewhat de-escalate, come into this, you know, understand the mental health challenges of this woman. and yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so true. That is so true. Yeah. Oh, those good quieter moments are so important to pay attention to. Yes, yes. Uh-huh. There's like so much goodness and substance that is there.
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, I just thought it was so wild how both of our stories kind of went the same, similar direction with this theme of staying in the work. Yeah, I agree. It's kind of like the less, I mean, the less sexier moments of, you know, life in some ways. It's like, okay.
00:34:19
Speaker
Uh-huh. Yeah. It is. Yeah. And it's like, I think there's the, like some of the grief of like, and we've had to find our way a lot. Yes. Yes. You've had moments like these, probably these really life-giving moments where you've got to step in. And I've had some life-giving moments where it's like, okay, there was a big splash, you know?
00:34:43
Speaker
So I'm like, oh, okay, there is some grief of something shifting of like, okay, and now there is an invitation to these kind of smaller, more profound, deeper moments. ahha Right. But even like, um even like the, the, the, I think there's also grief around how much we've, we've learned to leave.
00:35:10
Speaker
our bodies and learn to leave need to do what is like right and and for you to do what is what is risky or um or to like have to really go against our no. um And so it leads us down this path of, well, I have to leave my body here, here, here. And then that translates to within the people that are closest to me, I'm gonna have to leave their bodies too, because this is what I'm, I've been contorted to like look over here versus here.
Leaving the Body: Past Roles Reflection
00:35:41
Speaker
yeah um So anyways, I think that that's part of the the grief that I feel too. Yeah. In addition. Yeah.
00:35:50
Speaker
Because I hear both of us saying that there was something of a role, um you know, something of a role for me and having to appease and having to give my body to someone else's pleasure and something of a role for you and kind of being stepping into this kind of moral um situation and yeah and having to kind of deescalate a large crowd and yeah there there's there is something of that that's like okay like maybe second half of life or staying in the world has to live with like less moments of reenactment you know it's like okay then the the freedom to not live into those roles yeah amen
00:36:40
Speaker
you Amen.
Conclusion: Affirming Quiet Personal Connections
00:36:44
Speaker
I think that's a good that's a good place to yeah to be and to maybe end our time. What do you think? That sounds great, yeah. And thank you so much again Heather. i just um I think for for quite some time I'll think about that moment of you on the plane and again just the camera angle panning in and a quiet um moment of just engagement and seeing and attunement and it's inspiring me and it's inspiring me um with my own children with my own body in my own relationships so thank you.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. i was I mean, very similarly, the moment that you like bent down and looked at Charlotte's face and said, mom is not going to do this, but you can keep going. Amen to to both of those quiet moments of of remaining.
00:37:49
Speaker
The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by myself, Katie Stafford, and edited by Erin Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson, and all our guests are part of