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Living with a Gratitude Mindset with Tracy Johnson and Mary Jane Hamilton
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When it comes to living with gratitude, no one brings more wisdom to the Red Tent Living community than our beloved matriarch, Mary Jane Hamilton. Together, Mary Jane and Tracy reflect on the power of a practice of gratitude: from helping us see goodness in the day-to-day to instilling a sense of confidence and peace in the face of loss. As Mary Jane and Tracy speak on navigating different kinds of grief, they reflect with candor on how gratitude has continued to ground them and enrich their lives. Join them to discover the potential of gratitude in transforming your own life.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to Red Tent Living Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, I am Tracy Johnson, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. Each week, we share stories with the hope of seeing one another a little better and affirming each other across different seasons and perspectives. We're excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello Mary Jane. Good morning. It's good to see you. Good to see you. It's a snowy day here in Michigan. I can see that back behind you. Yeah. I'm actually, and I'm in Arizona and it is 32 degrees, but we'll get all the way up to 60 something today. Tell me how, how do I find you this morning?
00:00:46
Speaker
um A little preoccupied. I've added um another Dachshund to my family, and this little Dachshund is a Dachshund who is on my lap. And I lost the original Ashley several years ago, and I do have Belle, but she's not a lap dog. She's not a lap Dachshund, but I have Kate. I've only had her about a week, so she's um very soothing. She's sitting on my lap as we speak. Well, welcome Kate to the family. I've got a little dog here. There we go.
00:01:18
Speaker
Great, great. How about this?
Mary Jane's Background and Ministry Journey
00:01:20
Speaker
I think a lot of our listeners will know who you are, but there are probably some who don't. Could you just say a little bit about about you and about your relationship to me and to Red Tent Living?
00:01:34
Speaker
Well, i' um I got started in ministry several years ago, Open Hearts Ministry. Through that ministry, I got connected with a lot of different people and during that time I wrote a book about how I dealt with an eating disorder for 25 years and how I stopped and what it's been like to live after that kind of an addiction. and Tracy and I ran into one another when Tracy came to one of the seminars that I was at and I was one of the presenters. i did fair amount of teaching and a group worked with people and that's how Tracy and I met and we clicked right away. We did. ah So it was a relationship that's been fostered for several years now. I know. I'm a little bit more of an elderly woman and Tracy is a gal coming up behind and I'm just grateful for her and grateful that
00:02:30
Speaker
She still sees um what is good and what can be refreshing in an elderly woman and in a woman. who is For me, I've gone through some real tough stages of life here recently. Those days back when I was in open hearts ministry and with Tracy and teaching and traveling and being with all kinds of people, writing and writing my books, those feel like a distant memory. Yeah, it's been a Go ahead. it's been It's just, it's been a minute since those days and it's true. I mean, I think that, you know, sort of the the closure of that space for you and the closure of that space for me, you know, where um but we're we're eight years out from that and we're a decade out from your second book. Yes.
00:03:25
Speaker
So some time has certainly passed. Um, how about if you, would you share with the listeners just, uh, just a little bit Mary Jane about, you know, what, what this last year has held for you?
Coping with Husband's Health Decline
00:03:40
Speaker
Well, this last year has held a lot of, um, grief and sorrow and a lot of disappointment actually has been the last couple of years because My husband John has been declining realistically for the last 10, but the last two years have been really difficult with his depression and anxiety. And I found during that time that and not only was his world shrinking because of his anxiety, that mind shrank with him.
00:04:07
Speaker
and because I was his caretaker 24-7. And as I think that going through those years and even as I was going through them, it's after I got past a certain level of his decline and moved into the next one such as he can no lot longer walk and he needed he needed a walker and how how that transition came about and how the transition of getting oxygen for him came about. And then finally the transition of the hospice bed in the man cave.
00:04:37
Speaker
a place that he loved where he watched sports and a room where our family gathered a lot. and um And as I think about that, I really do have gratitude in that because the transitions were were so easy. And I believe that that is just simply by the grace of God and how God comes into a space, not only for John,
00:05:01
Speaker
as he was transitioning. I mean, this was the roughest on him, but also for the caretaker. And that was me to be able to um walk this path with him. And there's just one thing that I'll just give you a little example here. Two weeks before John passed away, and he was still in his chair at that time. He wasn't in and a hospital bed. And i remember and i we were sitting here and John just came out of the blue and he says, he says, I know I'm dying.
00:05:30
Speaker
And he said, I don't know why God is torturing me like this. oh
00:05:38
Speaker
Actually, the the only thing that I could think of to say to him is that I don't know why God is doing this to you either. I don't know why God has chosen this path for you. And I said, but I do know that I'm going to walk it with you.
00:05:55
Speaker
And I had been walking it with him for the last two years and I walked it with him for the last 14 days. Yeah. And um it's it's ah it's a journey. And yet, you know, I'm grateful for God and grateful that he gave me the strength to be able to do this with John because I was with John doing this.
00:06:20
Speaker
You were, as you say all that, I mean, you and I talked, if not every day, every few days um during during that season. And um it was a transition for you too. Yep, yep. As much as John was transitioning, you were transitioning. And I um i remember, easily remember how present you were to him and to all that was happening. Yep.
00:06:50
Speaker
yep And, you know, I feel like it was the last gift that I could give for him in his life. And it's exactly what he wanted, to die at home. And I'm just grateful that I could give that to him.
Life After Loss and Moving Forward
00:07:07
Speaker
and And as it is it's only when I'm looking back, it's just interesting because I've discovered that as I'm starting to move forward now, ah after John's death, I began to wonder, what's it going to be like to get back into life again? Because I had exited life. You have.
00:07:26
Speaker
And as it's so interesting because there have been so many little benchmarks where I've seen, you know, God has put this in my space for me. And it's something to do. ah Rather, it's learning to play mahjong, joining a mahjong group, getting out with people and going to dinner. And i I wondered how this was all going to happen. And in my own space, I couldn't conjured up.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, God has come in for me and I'm so grateful. and I'm not worried about it anymore. i I know that I'll be, I will live and be around people and live with my family. Just I praying that, you know, God gives me a few of those good years to have yet with my family and my grandchildren.
00:08:15
Speaker
we're We're all praying that. yeah Not a few good years, many good years, many more good years. So for that, thought but I'm very grateful and it hasn't it hasn't been easy. But even getting another Dachshund, getting Kate to go with Belle has ah been a transition and it's been a good one. So I love my little Dachshunds.
00:08:35
Speaker
I know you do. And you mentioned that Kate is sitting on your lap. So that feels like a great part of the reason that that Katie and I wanted to do this conversation as part of this little section of the of the podcast this season is when we talked about gratitude, like your face is the first one that emerged. Because we we walked with you in the publishing of your book. But um but that's not how it started.
00:09:05
Speaker
The book, the book wasn't what you set out to write. That's true. So, you know, here's what I'm thinking.
Friendship and the Role of Gratitude
00:09:13
Speaker
I'm thinking that maybe what we'll do, how about if I read to you the forward to your book and we'll start there. That'll be a good place to start. And, you know, I picked the book up last night. It's the first time it's been in my hands in a long time. And the first thing I read was the forward. Then I read my introduction.
00:09:34
Speaker
So go right ahead, Tracy, you're a wonderful reader. Here we go. I have a very unique relationship with the lovely woman whose book you now hold in your hand. She is well woven into the fabric of my life. Our hearts connect over stories, what we love, and even the colors of paint we prefer. To invite you to know her more and savor the richness of her gratitude is such a privilege for me.
00:10:02
Speaker
My relationship with Mary Jane Hamilton began over a decade ago. She was a key speaker at a seminar I attended, and and I was immediately drawn to her warm and engaging heart. I felt a connection with her that provoked a curiosity in me to know her more. She handed me a copy of her book, Living on Empty, and with a sparkle in her eye, she asked me to read it and let her know what I thought about it.
00:10:28
Speaker
I read her book and found myself stunned with her honesty, vulnerability, and courage. In his wild goodness, God moved my family to Michigan to live near Mary Jane. In fact, we bought the house where she and John finished raising their kids and where their grandchildren first came to know their Mimi. My own journey of living in gratitude began as I came to rest in the beauty Mary Jane and John had cultivated in and around their home, now my home.
00:10:56
Speaker
The warm colors, the rich textures of the tile, the creativity of the stone fireplace, the garden and landscape surrounding the house, all evidence of the extravagance of Mary Jane's heart. The gratitude I felt daily as my family began to inhabit that home started to change me. As I think about her generous heart, I remember the day that Mary Jane's living in gratitude was first conceived.
00:11:21
Speaker
A spontaneous drive to the lake ended with my family taking in the beauty of the setting sun from the bluff where Mary Jane and John's Lake home sits quietly. We had shared some cigars, some stories, and the warmth of friendship. And just before bed, I took a final peek at my Facebook and found her first gratitude post.
00:11:42
Speaker
Today I am grateful for almond butter on my homemade bread and a beautiful sunset with my cigar-smoking friends from Kazoo, settling in with the dashi on my lap. I had wondered if we had intruded on their evening, but as I read her words, my fear dissipated in the presence of her gratitude. The next night I noticed she had posted again, and I realized That signature closing about the dashi on her lap meant that something intentional was unfolding. Mary Jane's gratitude post continued every day for the coming year. As she wrote about her gratitude, I found myself looking forward to reading what she would share each day. During that same year, my daughter and I started an online magazine, Red Tent Living, a place where women can share their stories and explore their femininity.
00:12:34
Speaker
Mary Jane became one of our regular contributors writing monthly. Over the years, I've come to know Mary Jane as an easy voice to listen to, one that has invited change, spoken blessing, and brought laughter to my world. I am a wiser, kinder woman, a more playful mother and a more relaxed wife for having listened to her words.
00:12:57
Speaker
Mary Jane and I have walked a stretch of road together and her presence in my life is a source of tremendous gratitude for me. Now you have the chance to walk your own road with Mary Jane during the next year by reading her gratitude writings. I invite you to settle into the routine with a warm cup of something you enjoy and your pen because Mary Jane's words will leave you wanting to name your own gratitude and begin the practice of living in gratitude for yourself. I'm so thankful that Mary Jane graced Red Tent Living with the privilege of publishing her work as the first of what I hope will be many women's stories we help bring to light. It is fitting for these stories to begin with the playful and inviting wisdom of Mary Jane's gratitude. Thank you. Thank you.
00:13:47
Speaker
I too pulled the book out, hadn't in a while, and read those words and remembered that night on the bluff, spontaneous, and you're posting. And so how was it for you to pull it out and read those words and begin to remember a little bit?
00:14:04
Speaker
Well, I started going through what I posted, just just kind of going through a book like this, looking, and I found that where I landed, and many of them, I remember where where I was in that space. And I remember why I chose gratitude for that day. I remember who those friends were that i'm that I'm talking about in my post. I don't mention their names necessarily, but I remember who they are.
00:14:33
Speaker
And it just it just brought me along. It it's um there was it was written prior, like gratitude was written prior and just easing into where John's a mental oh capacity and where his mental energy was going in a different direction other than ministry, which we had done together, traveling that we had done done together. And so this was all written that year was kind of a transition year.
00:15:01
Speaker
It was. And I just remember that.
Staying Present and Practicing Gratitude
00:15:04
Speaker
And just remember some of the pain and even writing the the posts and and thinking back on that was good. That was a good time. That was good. It feels like as you're saying that, that part of what I'm hearing is that there were days when it was easy at the end of the day to write your gratitude post. And then there were other days when it it was an intentionality.
00:15:30
Speaker
on your part to write the post? Yes, and i and I believe that there is an intentionality behind gratitude. I mean, I had to be have my heart in a place, intentionally in a place, to say, thank you, Jesus. And many many times I go through my days, even now, those are those are the words I say, thank you, Jesus, an intentional way of recognizing him and his presence here. And I want to stay in the present. I discovered that as I look towards my future, I have a lot of hope. And yet I don't want to place myself out there in the future. I want to be thankful for where I am now. And I realize that when I get too far out there, um my gratitude begins to slip.
00:16:25
Speaker
and that's I'm not thanking him for for for that necessarily. Can you say more about that? what would tell me what what big How do you begin to notice that the gratitude is slipping? What's happening? um Because God's not in it. When I look towards the future, there's no one, not just me, but no one.
00:16:48
Speaker
does it intentionally with the idea that God is present because you don't, you don't know, I don't know how God is going to be present in my future. I can't say that. I need to see him in the present. And I have a girlfriend.
00:17:03
Speaker
I will mention her name. Her name is Bev, and I've known her for over 40 years. And I remember as a new Christian listening to her pray, and she's the first person who I heard pray, thank you, Jesus, for what you're going to do in this situation.
00:17:23
Speaker
He was thanking him for something out there. She was preparing her heart for gratitude. And she was preparing my heart for gratitude by thanking him in advance for what he's going to do. But yet staying in the present of being grateful. And I've just never forgotten that.
00:17:43
Speaker
and When I hear in that prayer an acknowledgement, it feels like there's an acknowledgement of need, right? There's an advance thanking him for what he's going to do, but even in the thanking, there's an acknowledgement that there's a need for something. Yes. Yes. Yes. And preparing preparing the heart for what that need is,
00:18:06
Speaker
and to be able to be great be grateful or to see goodness in what's going what is going to happen, whatever it is. But I had never heard that you can thank God for what He's going to do in the future. And yet, don't place yourself there. Don't place yourself there. As you say that, i i it's so true. no i When I think about what lies out there,
00:18:35
Speaker
You know, i um I have no idea. I know. I have no idea. and And it can be, you know, sometimes it can it can feel fun to entertain the possibility, you know, of what might be out there. But but it is it is a departure from my present.
00:18:56
Speaker
i I remember as you started writing your gratitude posts, it felt like I enjoyed reading yours and I would get on each night to see, you know, what is Mary Jane grateful for today? But it was an instant invitation for me to do the same. yeah yeah You know, although I wasn't writing anything on Facebook, it was it was an invitation for me to think about and what what are my words?
00:19:23
Speaker
at the end of this day and to recognize both the days that it came easily, but then the days that were challenging and where where is my gratitude, um you know, in a day that that doesn't feel particularly delightful.
00:19:39
Speaker
But you know what, what I what i find interesting and again is what it, as you look, as I look back, I can see where God's hand was in it. You know, I'm going to start gratitude. I'm going to start it now before my life with my husband because begins to unravel, which started during that year and towards the end of the year. And then it continued on. So it was like, it's like a preparation. It was like, God knew what I needed to do. He was, it was like a gratitude.
00:20:09
Speaker
thankfulness present yeah Well, and I can remember you and I talking about this too. It was sometime after you started writing and I i started doing some looking and some research you know around the impact of gratitude and what it does, like psychologically what it does. and and started to find like there there is evidence of what it does in your brain. I mean, and that practicing of gratitude actually sets off the release of chemicals in your brain that help quiet anxiety and sort of turn on what can leave you feeling more relaxed. And and and it's like the perfect way to end your day, you know? Yes, it is.
00:20:57
Speaker
because it gives you the opportunity to really to sort of fall asleep in a place of thankfulness, even if the day has been hard. Yep. That's what I have found. And it doesn't eat it doesn't eat it doesn't have to be anything big. Again, it's just, thank you, Jesus. You know, when I wake up in the morning if i and I go to my iPad, my picture on the page, first page, is my family. And I look at all those people.
00:21:26
Speaker
And I said, thank you, Jesus. Then I can look at each one of my grandchildren, and I know what they're going through, or I know something about them, or and my children are there too. And my husband is standing there, very weak, but he was there. And just the gratitude of that picture and those people, they're my people. And again, it doesn't have to be anything huge. This is now being the presence of Jesus step by step.
00:21:57
Speaker
Well, and you, as you talk about your family, you talk about your grandchildren, you know, I have watched you grandmother and I have watched you do that with incredible intentionality and and with a consistency of both gratitude and delight. This is what you bring to your grandchildren. You bring your gratitude and you bring your delight. And I, I i think they have basked in it. I mean, I think it has, it has created a sense of how safe you are for them. They know what they're going to get from you.
00:22:27
Speaker
Yep. They know what they're going to get from you. It's like, oh, okay. And so, you know, we can't talk about the book and about gratitude and your grandchildren without talking about Jack.
Creating a Gratitude Book with Family Influence
00:22:39
Speaker
Oh yeah, Jack, he's my oldest grandson. He's married by the way. But Jack was a person who he was reading my gratitude post on Facebook as well. I didn't know that. And, um, he said to me one day, he said, you know, Mimi,
00:22:53
Speaker
You ought to put all these gratitude posts in a book for one year. Do it for a year. Put them all in a book so that I can read them and other people can read them. He says, just do it and I'll take the cover picture because he was in the photography at the time. And he did. He took the cover picture of of my book sitting in my home with my Dachshund on my lap and another one by my side.
00:23:21
Speaker
So he was the one who put the idea in my head. At first, I thought, oh, golly, how do you go about doing that? But I mentioned it to Tracy, and right away, she said, oh, we can do that. And I'm like, really? OK. August continued to write. We'll see how this unfolds. So it was actually Jack's idea. It was. Yep. It was. and and i That grandson, by the way, is 26 right now.
00:23:47
Speaker
and his wonderful, wonderful guy, married to a beautiful girl. And I'm very grateful for Jack and for Courtney and in their life. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think Jack was even driving yet when you started writing your gratitude post. No, ah but I love that the idea came from him. Yeah, I do too.
00:24:09
Speaker
I do too. And I love, I love that the picture was his. I mean, it's just the whole, it feels, it all feels so congruent Mary Jane. As you tell, as you tell the story and you talk about why, why you did it. And you talk about even today, opening up your iPad and seeing your grandchildren and, you know, and your children and seeing John. like There's this, there's this thread that just pulls all the way through. Yep. Yep.
00:24:38
Speaker
Sure it does. what would you What would you tell our listeners about how to start their own gratitude practice?
Advice on Starting a Gratitude Practice
00:24:48
Speaker
What would you want them to know? I started simply with the words, today I'm grateful for, and to be able just to name it.
00:24:57
Speaker
whatever it is, be able to name it, and to begin to think through a little bit why you're grateful for that. It can be something big. It doest it just doesn't have to be ah a huge earth-scattering event. It can be something very intimate and very personal about yourself, because I i have posts in there that I talk to today. i I'm grateful for my weakness and what I have learned in being weak.
00:25:25
Speaker
and You know, today I am grateful for patience and what ah and what how patience played out for me during that day. Today I'm grateful for mercy. And where did mercy show up today? And it can be events. Today I'm grateful, you know, it's the 4th of July and here's why. I mean, it can be anything.
00:25:54
Speaker
But it's it's whatever you know but God puts on your heart. And sometimes it's difficult to separate from your heart, your brain to your heart, but you know it's's it's a little bit of a journey. oh I believe that others will get there and that they will get there as they begin that practice of gratitude. I love that. And I think for me, one of the things that I love about you is that you absolutely are a truth speaker. You don't.
00:26:25
Speaker
you yeah You're not, not nervous. Yeah, every once in a while. But you're, but there's nothing fluffy or artificial or plastic day or that's just not you. It's not you. but And so as you began but putting this gratitude out there, again, oftentimes because we're close, I knew what your day had held.
00:26:49
Speaker
And sometimes your day had held something that had intersected with my day that hadn't felt particularly delightful. But I watched you, in the truth of the day, sit and find, even in this, i can I can find gratitude. And you and you just need it. You know, gratitude for a day when you were feeling weak and what for what you've learned in weakness or or for how the Lord was present with you in weakness.
00:27:21
Speaker
grateful for mercy, but only because you needed it. um yeah but you know and it just so And that feels important too, because I think sometimes people think, you know, kind of this gratitude out there that can feel just a little light. And like, you know, that's fine on a day when everything went great, but what about on a day where where the world felt hard, where your husband was depressed, where you know there was there was angst or unrest with a friend or family or ah you know ministry partners, what whatever it was. and And again, I think you led the way in in a way that felt authentic and true and and inspiring like to me to do the same.
00:28:10
Speaker
that it's possible. It is possible. It is possible. And during ah during the past few years when I was in this very restricted place with John, because he wouldn't leave the house and i he wanted me close, um I began to wonder if I had the capacity to um overcome that as a single as a single as a single person, because of the restrictions of that. And I know that there are women out there now, probably women who are watching this, who are feeling possibly restricted in some other kind of way, in a way that is interrupting their life or disappointing their life. And I just want you to know that I've been through a lot of disappointment over the last few years, disappointment after disappointment, disappointment. And in each one of those, there was a measure of grief and sorrow.
00:29:08
Speaker
And yet there is it's another side, just it's like persevering through what is going to be the inevitable, through the words my husband said, I know I'm dying. right right And I knew it for a long time, but I never said it. yeah And I just, um in all of that, life became very different.
00:29:31
Speaker
And I just know that there are seasons out there with with women where their life is going to be very different from what they thought. And it's going to be very disruptive. Maybe with taking care care of aging parents, which I feel like that's who I am right now.
00:29:49
Speaker
But to find to find your place of gratitude, a gratitude gratitude gives you confidence.
00:29:58
Speaker
Well, and it gives you, you know, i i I was talking to my son yesterday and we were talking about my parents and where they are. My mom is on hospice now and my dad probably isn't far behind. And and my son said, you know, like,
00:30:15
Speaker
I haven't really asked mom, how are you? How, how has the last month been? And I told him a story, you know, of a particular day that I had gotten a call from the director at the home where my parents are with some additional news, you know, that just the the confirming day by day of what's happening. And it was December, and I remember I was i was driving, I had Christmas music playing, and and I could feel the sadness i mean ah you know of where my parents are and and what a departure that is from what marked decades oh of Christmas time with them. and like But the next thing that came, Mary Jane, a was gratitude.
00:31:07
Speaker
gratitude for all of those years. Gratitude for who they have been, sadness for what is not, but but it was it was almost seamless. and And I know in large part that that is because of the practice of gratitude yeah in my life and and learning that from you. But in that moment, I didn't have to try to think of what I was grateful for. It was there.
00:31:35
Speaker
yep It was there. and And I think that that's part of what you're saying is that practicing of it. Then when the days are dark, it's like a muscle that you've built up and the gratitude will emerge. It will be there. It it gives you confidence for another day. Yes. And you don't know how God's going to show up there, but another day because of how it showed up today. And that is what I'm grateful for. It's beautiful.
00:32:06
Speaker
It's beautiful. I can't think of a better place for us to close than with that. Great with me. It's good to see your face. Good to see you too. Thank you for being with us. You're welcome. The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by Katie Stafford and edited by Aaron Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson and our guests are all part of the Red Tent Living community. You can find us all at redtentliving.com as well as on Facebook and Instagram.
00:32:36
Speaker
If you love the stories shared here, we would be thrilled if you would leave us a review. Until next week, love to you, dear ones.