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Thankful to Love You: Gratitude in Relationship with Tracy Johnson and Katy Stafford
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We kick off season 4 with this sweet, New Year's reflection between Katy and Tracy as they process relationships coming to a close and relationships being birthed, all through the lens of gratitude. With a focus on embracing our own humanity and leaning into our shortcomings and the hard moments, Katy and Tracy look for the ordinary magic that makes the day to day worth living. Join us for this refreshing conversation to reframe your perspective on engaging with loved ones this coming year.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Red Tent Living Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Katie Stafford, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. Each week, we share stories with the hope of seeing one another a little better and affirming each other across different seasons and perspectives. We're excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table.
Reflecting on Season Four's Journey
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello. Welcome to season four. Welcome to season four. Who would have thought? Here we are. It's fun. Here we are. I know. How are you starting the new year?
00:00:41
Speaker
That's a good question.
Spending New Year Away: Reflection & Joy
00:00:42
Speaker
I mean, we just we just got back from a few days with friends on the East Coast. It was a fun welcoming of the new year, probably good for us to like get away from sort of our normal. It's just, you know, I mean, and I'll probably talk about a little bit of what I'll share today, but it's ah um it's just a little bit of a heavier holiday ah you know and so it felt good to go be at somebody else's house and they still have teenagers and you know and so there were kids in and out and you know just kind of all of that and we didn't have any kids there and it was great I mean we just kind of got to be observers of all of the kids stuff but yeah it was fun it was good it was good how about you guys
Looking Forward to 2025: Changes & Introspection
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'll probably talk about all of this more too, but I think I was really reflective headed into 2025 because there's a couple of known things awaiting me. Like it's a little less of the blank slate of January and more of the like anticipation and who do I want to be as a result? So there was gratitude, there was tenderness.
00:02:02
Speaker
um There was excitement and there was just a like introspection to it all. Yeah. I mean, that feels true. I um i wrote on on New Year's Eve. I sat out on, they have like a sort of three seasons porch or whatever. I turned the fire on and I sat out there. It was very foggy. and And that was good. It was good reflective space. And I think I, you know, similar to you, I feel the anticipation of some things that are coming that I know are coming.
00:02:32
Speaker
And I also feel the anticipation of things that i I believe are coming. And so, you know, it's a different prompt. Yes. We are. To me, it's a different prompt. Yeah.
The Role of Gratitude in Relationships
00:02:44
Speaker
We are starting this month. We have a number, like season four has great content in it, but kind of a grounding thread for these first few episodes is gratitude and what we're wanting today is kind of gratitude in the sense, can gratitude change and deepen relationship? Like, what's the relationship between relationship and gratitude? um I feel like you should go first. I probably should. It's not super long.
00:03:16
Speaker
I felt my phone buzz in my purse next to me. Carefully pulling it out, I saw the name of the director for my parents' care home. I nudged Mark, showing him, and slipped out the nearest door. Standing in the narthex of the church, I listened to the latest update on my dad. The aging process has given way to a steady decline, and it had already been a difficult week for my folks, including the decision to bring in hospice care for my mom.
00:03:46
Speaker
Driving down the capital of Texas Highway after finishing that phone call, I listened to my holiday playlist and felt the tears well up in my eyes. The vibrancy that has marked who my parents have been is fading quickly and it feels sad. But as I drove, noticing my own emotions and what my tears were speaking, I felt overwhelmed with gratitude.
Expressing Gratitude Towards Parents
00:04:11
Speaker
The familiar lyrics of the Christmas music made the memories of decades of Christmas magic facilitated by my parents come to my mind one after another. And as my parents' lives are fading and I am taking stock of what it has meant to be their daughter, access to my gratitude is not hard to find. There's a weight to the gratitude I feel, the weight that comes with what I would call honor,
00:04:38
Speaker
honoring the gravity of all that has been true, what has been good, what has been hard, what has been sweet, what has been difficult, the honoring of their humanity and mine. These days have brought a marked uptick in the correspondence by text, email, and phone calls between my brother and I. And again, I feel gratitude. This season with our parents requiring more care and involvement from us has revealed the depth of the places where we are alike.
00:05:07
Speaker
the product of being raised by them. We know their values. We know what matters to them. We share an understanding of them and our individual core values are closely aligned. So in the midst of what feels hard, sad and fading, there's been the regular presence of gratitude for each other.
Finding Gratitude Amidst Hardships
00:05:28
Speaker
Cultivating the practice of gratitude in this way has been a learned discipline for me.
00:05:34
Speaker
For years, I was able to find gratitude, but it felt separate from anything hard, almost like the gratitude was something to distract myself. Like this hard thing is happening, but look over here and see what you're thankful for. Today, the gratitude is more often something I can access in the middle of the hard, not to distract me from it, but to help me remain connected to myself and the people I love in the middle of what feels painful or disappointing or disillusioning.
00:06:04
Speaker
or simply different than what I prefer. I'm so taken by the gratitude that brings us into presence, right? like Not in activism, but like rooted. I can be more here because I'm tied to goodness. Yeah, and I you know i didn't i didn't write it all out, but i but that day as i was as I was driving, I did feel really aware of my own work and my own story and like the the the recovering of all of myself, I think, that like is good work for all of us to do. The places where my dad has done that work that led to conversations that were not always enjoyable.
00:07:01
Speaker
I would say as a kid, like growing up, um there was it wasn't that we didn't have hard conversations, but but they were of a different ilk than the kind I'm talking about. And for the most part, we had nice conversations.
00:07:20
Speaker
That was largely what we did. If we had a hard conversation, we might have been talking about something theological or about something going on for someone else that felt hard for them over there. But for the most part, know we didn't we didn't we didn't have the kinds of hard conversations that that were necessary to produce sort of this space that that I feel now. And I think it was because like we didn't know how to have them. And there was a fear that if we had them, they're going to make things worse. Like if we talk about that thing, or if we bring up, you know, that moment from 15 years ago, where this thing got said, or you handled something with me in this way, it's like, why are we doing that? There's no point to that.
00:08:07
Speaker
Right, which I think is uncomfortable. Right, which is so often, you know, I hear that from clients that I have today or when I'm just sitting at a table with with women or men and women and and they're asking me why I do what I do that often. It's like, so why would you do that?
Navigating Difficult Conversations
00:08:25
Speaker
There's no point. Right. Isn't that just sort of wallowing in the past or and I can say, no, it's not. It's actually like the The depth of where I can sink into today, like what I am truly grateful for and who my parents are, the gravity of it is because all of it is true. Not just you know these cherry-picked things.
00:08:53
Speaker
We talked about an advent that joy and grief are on a continuum. It feels like that's tied to that, right? Like, so you've sought out hard conversations that have rupture, grief, harm all in them. And digging that deep well lets you also fill it with the Christmas magic and the joy and the tenderness and they're they're tied.
00:09:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think when you are trying to suppress hard things, almost like, well, I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna think about that, or I'm not gonna feel that, or that's in the past, and so that's just gone. I'm only gonna talk about you know, the Christmas magic or the the good thing that happened here. You don't realize what that's costing you psychologically and spiritually and emotionally to keep yourself fragmented like that and divided and sort of to have all of that. I mean, maybe a good word to use like, well, we'll just exile all of that, right? That doesn't get to belong. That doesn't get to take up space. Or I think you can go to the other extreme where it's it's like there can't be any goodness.
00:10:05
Speaker
I don't have any gratitude because this all was terrible and this person was terrible. I was just, again, our friends that we were just with. She has a very, very difficult story with her father. Some of the most harm I've known in a father-daughter relationship. And we were sitting and and she was putting words to this very thing that like having done all of that work, not because it went particularly well in like any kind of repair with him,
00:10:34
Speaker
But what she's noticing is that inside her own heart, like there there is space for gratitude.
A Friend's Journey to Gratitude & Healing
00:10:41
Speaker
There is space where it's like, I need to be able to name that there was also goodness. And there's something like,
00:10:51
Speaker
healing and and and that that brings like a rest and a wholeness to like it's actually all true right right and it was it was fascinating and she said you know what i'm saying this out loud for like the first time right now i don't think i've been i don't think i've put words to it you know and as she was saying it i you know it was like how is that sounding as it's coming out of your mouth you know she's like i like like good I mean I think this is I think this is good and it was beautiful but only possible because there's been a whole lot of hard that's had to be sat in so it makes then the naming of this goodness is like wow I mean I felt like you're you're sitting in the middle of what feels honestly like the gospel to me that if it's possible because because of the gospel otherwise I don't know that it's possible
00:11:48
Speaker
And the right here and integrity for her that like gratitude and like recognizing the good is not necessarily, I'm not hearing that she was navigating that with her father. No. Result of the work that she did.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah. She had a capaciousness and openness inside of her to feel it, to know it, to not hate it, to not cut off that part of herself. Right. Right. And so it, because I, I think that's particularly important. It's not this contrived or mandated has to happen with the, it's not necessarily repair with the person, but it's a restoration inside of yourself because you can hold the whole story. Right.
00:12:39
Speaker
right is delightfully surprised. And it's totally true. I just wasn't expecting to hear about Uncle JR in this story. I thought it was going to be just about your folks. And and I say that because like I think you and JR, you've navigated different depths of intimacy from childhood through today. like You've had seasons where you were really, really close. Other seasons where it's like,
00:13:05
Speaker
We don't talk very often, like like adult siblings do. right And I really loved, and I have felt it to be true, like when we all moved to my Patti and Pop Up together, there was just a wry playfulness between the two of you and and sort of a core alignment that I was like, that's really refreshing to see. And like such a gift that it's like, you guys are having lots of hard conversations now, like,
00:13:33
Speaker
We are. and With your folks. it's but it's but the what I would say like we are having conversations where we are having to talk about hard things and the conversations are not hard. Yes. yeah right We are having to talk about hard things, but the reason that they're not hard, and this takes me back to you know did despite despite all of the other things, our parents instilled something in us.
00:14:04
Speaker
It was, you know, i can I can remember hearing from Pop Pop in particular, like his hope, his wish, his prayer, that Uncle JR and I would be close in ways that that he wished and didn't find that he was close with his sister. and and And I don't know that that's looked like what he imagined that it would look like. But what we're finding is that it's like,
00:14:31
Speaker
it's there. Like the seeds that were planted yielded plenty of fruit.
00:14:39
Speaker
And, and it does, I mean, I have, I have felt really grateful for that and really aware that it's like, we're, we are on the same page and the conversations haven't been hard because it's like, well, we both know what they want. hey And so it's easy. It's like, well, we can honor those things. And then we are enough alike and that has been right and funny, you know, where our response to certain things is very similar and and has brought levity, you know,
Sibling Connection & Shared Values
00:15:10
Speaker
that that has been needed. so Yeah, I mean, i you know, I don't know how you imagine what this season looks like, you know, until you've actually been through it, but I have heard from enough other people that, you know, sometimes the the siblings not being in the same page is what makes it so, so difficult. And so, yeah, I'm very thankful that that's not our story. um and And it has been very easy for us to you know just pick back up. And I think also there is a mutual respect for one another and for where we're we are different and our gifts are different. And right now I would say again, i I think we have both felt like I am really thankful for you in that place and that you can do that because that that is not what I am good at. who I feel like perhaps
00:16:10
Speaker
I think you've both chosen to navigate. hard conversations and like your own stories. you've You've done that in your own ways. And then it's interesting and I think beautiful to see where whats what you've each chosen to like till, carve, nurture, feel has left you with different skill sets. So there is this there's this mutuality, there's this differentiation, and there's this like coming to see each other in new lights. Yeah. That's cool.
00:16:44
Speaker
Definitely. Definitely. we We just recently wrote together, we we wrote a letter to all of all of the people that have donated to My Patty and Pop-Up over time because that is coming to a close. Yes. And JR did quite a bit of the work on that. And as I was reading it, he's he's also naming but where they are and where they're receiving care.
00:17:09
Speaker
you know, is it is from constant care and Matt and Jamie, that's Matt and Jamie's business, but then naming Jamie's parents who all of these people that will get this letter, ah you know, but the history goes back that far. And so again, ah you know, there's just, there's a lot to, there is a lot that is relationally tied Um, and you know, there's a lot to be grateful for and not one ounce of it, not why, you know, that being Jamie's business, the story for Matt and Jamie and that who they are to us, like all of that is storied and all of that is true and possible. Honestly, because of what we're talking about and and the places where the the people were naming have, have done their own work.
00:17:59
Speaker
to weigh the gravity of their lives and then offer something like um that is an outgrowth of goodness there. I love that. Yeah. That's really cool. How about you? How about me? Well, we were in similar spaces. I called my posts moments for magic.
Personal Reflections on Major Life Changes
00:18:22
Speaker
It's 746 am on December 31.
00:18:26
Speaker
just before sunrise on the last day of a tired year. The rain is set to turn to snow shortly, showering the year in a fresh sprinkle of white before time begins all over again. Here from my stiff blue waiting room armchair, I'll have the perfect view to watch it all fall softly against the twinkle lights outside. In between my blood draws for a glucose tolerance test to see if I have gestational diabetes.
00:18:54
Speaker
Already that sentence tells a story of what this year has held. The excitement of my husband and I anticipating a baby, our first, and some of the worries and realities that unfold with pregnancy, which looks just a little bit different for everyone. When the year opened, Aaron was the one who stated definitively, 2024 is going to be big for us. His words ushered us into a year that did indeed feel big, in good ways and hard ways too.
00:19:25
Speaker
I've decided big years happen at twilight hours. They're all beginnings and endings, from welcoming new babies, new jobs, new milestones, new homes, to creating the loss of a long cherished relationship, grandparent, graduated child, or childhood home. Big years happen in the thin spaces of change. I often face these twilight moments with a drive to change something within myself as well.
00:19:54
Speaker
to mark what's passing intentionally and to move through it just a bit differently than who I was before I realized Twilight was coming. This is especially true if the change is hard. It's like I don't want to waste the suffering. That's not necessarily true for everyone I know. As I wait near nine other souls, all here for different private reasons,
00:20:20
Speaker
I've noticed most bring a rush of energy when their loved one is released from their test or their scan. Those in the waiting room scoop them up and evacuate quickly. Almost as if fleeing the hospital premises will allow them to also flee the inflection point that has touched their family. We crave the bright, known sunshine of ordinary days over raw and wild twilight. But change still comes for all of us.
00:20:49
Speaker
and we all get the chance to decide how we will greet it. 2025 already promises more change in my world. Not just the birth of our son, but the likely completion of my grandparents' journey on this earth. It may indeed bring other twilight moments I can't anticipate yet.
00:21:08
Speaker
And here in a waiting room on the last day of 2024, I find myself thinking of all I've learned and loved from my grandparents, how grateful I am for them, and all that I want to bring to my son. Most of all, I find myself wanting to lean into making some magic at Twilight.
00:21:27
Speaker
I'm not talking big, otherworldly magic, just the ordinary magic of being present and connected and open. The kind that comes from cookie baking and afternoon tea parties and reading aloud and dress up. The kind you find on camping trips like the Monopoly while droplets of rain plink on the top of your tent. And the kind you invest in a special birthday party for someone you love.
00:21:55
Speaker
The kind of magic that knows how to help the people in your life mark Valentine's as a day for loving everyone, not a day for just chocolates and roses. There are so many things a year brings that I cannot control. Glucose tests, the death of a grandparent, or all of the uncertainties that raising a child unleashes. But I can throw parties and play board games. I can carry down the traditions from my grandmother and my mother to my son.
00:22:24
Speaker
I can keep sharing the magic that made me who I am from whatever may.
00:22:32
Speaker
I did love that it felt like we were both contemplating the same reality and we both use the same word for some of what my Patty and Papa bring.
Cherishing Childhood Memories
00:22:43
Speaker
It's true.
00:22:44
Speaker
um I mean, it it fills that feels that feels very true and and and never was just tying to Christmas. Certainly there was Christmas magic, but but with them, there was often you know the the the possibility of of magic, um but just all the things that they made happen.
00:23:10
Speaker
and i And I love the way you taught it, like ordinary magic, not, not extra ordinary, not trips to Europe were new cars or, you know, though that that's not what they did. You know, they, it it was the, it it was the steady, consistent, those things you could count on.
00:23:36
Speaker
the board games in the tent, the spring breaks in the summer with, you know, the sticker books that were waiting and the goofy golf. and Right. It was just all all of those things that for you guys as kids, were those were magical. Yeah, they were magical. i um I like the way you talked about big years seem to happen in the Twilight. like that and That was interesting.
00:24:04
Speaker
um Um, almost as if the, the Twilight is what's telling you it's coming. Yeah. There's like, uh, I don't know. I think just, uh,
00:24:19
Speaker
precarity to it, right? Like it's not fully illuminated. You don't know all of what it is, but you can you can kind of feel it coming. um And it has a lot of times it has signs. Sometimes it sometimes it doesn't sometimes you get pitched into the black unexpectedly. But Yeah, it just it's not that clear, you know, what ah exactly what's happening, everything set kind of feeling. I think one of the things that I like Katie is and I and this has felt almost thematic with you over over, you know, this past year or so, which has been your
00:25:07
Speaker
um intentionality ah around cultivating simple ordinary moments that are meaningful. You know, it's been it's the space you and Aaron built in your backyard that isn't meant for masses. It's meant for, you know, your group of friends, everybody's got an at around our chair to sit in around your fire pit. And, um and, and in the tradition of board games, and, you know, that this, this is what we do, you know, the, I mean, I could name other things too, but it just feels like this is becoming, I think, one of your signatures. I think that's true. Yeah, certainly, like,
00:25:51
Speaker
leaving for college in particular. I think I was just very aware that I wanted to do big things and I had big dreams and I wanted to go to big places. um And I did. And and they were everything I hoped for. Right. They were transformational and inspiring and beautiful. And I think those experiences are really important. um And that continued.
00:26:21
Speaker
through my 20s and 30s is like there there have been big moments and some of my favorite lifetime will always remember memories moments. And I think simultaneously like I did, and Erin has been a part of this, like as we've been together, I think I've also like needed to start turning back the other direction. where it's like It started in things like date nights, or like how to make things special. I kept having this impulse to go bigger, and then we would do you know the medium, big we weren't going to Europe, but we'd do the big thing. and it was like
00:27:02
Speaker
That was fine. You know, like we went to a nice restaurant and the food was fine. And so then just starting to like reflect and go, what, what makes a moment magical?
00:27:15
Speaker
Really, like what what are what's the recipe for magic? And maybe it was turning back to some of those younger memories, even subconsciously, of just realizing like it can be small. And I think we we have a lot of those memories too, like on the big trips or even us like coming to stay with everybody in Austin. It's like, it's not necessarily the big night. Sometimes it's the big night out. That's the favorite memory. But other times it's just all of us playing a board game together, right? That night brought more connection and more laughter and stitched us all closer together than the Oh So Nice restaurant did. I think that that think that's very true. I think that's very true. I guess it makes me think about, and I think this, I think we even talked about this quote in in one of the, like, you know, towards the end of the episodes before we did Advent.
00:28:14
Speaker
around you know the yeah but like the value of of doing the ordinary things in the wake of something that feels threatening or tragic or but you know traumatic, whether and whether that you know be a global thing or a communal thing, but that it's it's those simple so simple acts of doing doing the ordinary things that keep life going and that and that I think really mark that this is a good life, that we can be living a good life right here, right where we are right now, and making ordinary magic.
00:28:58
Speaker
oh and in the in the midst of that. and Yeah, and that back to your grandparents, Libby and I were taking the big the big Christmas tree we took down ah before dad and I flew back east. and like you know 75% of what's on that tree came from her. One one box at a time over 30 years.
00:29:31
Speaker
you know always arriving somewhere right after Thanksgiving with an ornament for each of you oh and and you know and an advent calendar or or whatever. But I found myself really like very aware of that. And now that was a really simple thing that she did.
00:29:55
Speaker
And some of the ornaments are, you know, more lavish than others, but each one said something about what was going on in your lives that year that she knew about. Do the same thing. It's one of your favorite things that the first year we were together, I was like, we're going to go out and we're each going to buy an ornament that's representative of our year. And they're ridiculous. Like we started.
00:30:23
Speaker
doing that the year of COVID. And so I bought a flaming, sparkly dumpster. A flower. Like, it just says trash. It's a dumpster fire. And Aaron bought a sparkly, hand-blown glass jar of mayonnaise. Because he's like, mayonnaise is what got me through this year. And it hangs on our tree.
00:30:43
Speaker
like And people come and we tell the story. But I do it because of her, because I always loved opening that ornament. and And now it's a tradition in art, like I want to do that with our kids too, where it's like one ornament for the year.
00:31:01
Speaker
um And I'm sure ornaments will need to be retired of it or they'll shatter, right? Or they will probably show up from other places because yeah I will probably do that for you. Because I loved that. I loved that for you guys as grandkids. I loved what it said about you. You have this thing in your hand that told you your grandmother had been paying attention. Yeah, yeah.
00:31:27
Speaker
you know, whether it was a typewriter or an Eiffel Tower or ah red tennis shoes when you graduated um from Rhodes, you know, whatever it was. It's like she'd been listening a guitar for Steve and a dance ornament for Ellie and, you know, whatever it was, it just said, I hear you. I remember you. Yeah.
00:31:53
Speaker
That was, she was the same with Valentine's Day, right? Like with the one Valentine's Day always felt special to me, not because I was getting oh so many Valentines from boys at school, but because my paddy sent a present in the morning to each of us.
00:32:10
Speaker
to open up on Valentine's Day. That was really more about just celebrating love and that you are worthy of love. And it was sweet. And then they got funny in high school. She was sending me like Superman Valentine's cards. And I was like, what? Why? It was so funny. Like it and it just it made that day special. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm thinking about like what what am I going to what will I carry? from our conversation into the next week. I am going to be thinking about your your comment about big years and twilight. I'm going to keep pondering that. But I think also like the being more intentional about noticing the ordinary magic that's that's around um each each day, not taking it for granted, but actually letting it get tilled into the soil.
Staying Present Through Transitions with Gratitude
00:33:08
Speaker
I'm going to be thinking about it's not the same kinds of hard conversations right now in my life. But I mean, I think there are hard conversations. I think there's I feel like I'm staring down a like a moment of identity shift where I know becoming a mother will become a priority, will become the priority in a way that like will remake some of how I see myself, some of how I engage with others. And I think sometimes that can make me fearful or defensive or I can have a conversation with Aaron. And I really loved what you were saying about
00:33:56
Speaker
gratitude, bringing you more present in the hard spaces. So rather than my, like, if I can choose an emotion where it's like, okay, I recognize I'm in a hard moment. If I can stop for a second and say, what am I grateful for? Like, if I can attach to that moment more, connect with the goodness in that moment and practice some gratitude for it, what might that make possible? Not that that's going to make me less reactive or but like I just like the creativity of that and what it might open up for me in those conversations so that I don't just amputate it off and be like well I shouldn't be feel like you know the shoulds of I shouldn't be in that space I should be grateful this is a gift
00:34:44
Speaker
as you say that makes me think about what like if you if you practice the examine you know the the the spiritual discipline of that is like you know what however you do it the moments that were life-giving you know the moments that were life-draining but but the practice is it's often easy for us to to like, feel God's blessing and love for us over the things that we're grateful for, you know, the moments that felt life giving. But where we felt like, you know, this was a moment, these were the moments where I was able to give and receive love. These are the moments where I wasn't able.
00:35:22
Speaker
to give and receive love and we tend to move to judgment which is what I think I'm hearing you say and it's like instead I'm supposed to' supposed to name that moment like this was a moment I was unable to give and receive love or this is a moment where I felt like the life was getting sucked out of me and then receive God's blessing for you and his love for you in that moment also and I and i think that's what you're saying and I think that's what begins to soften and and allow it's like Okay, i I could still find some gratitude in the middle of this hard.
00:35:59
Speaker
It's a a human moment instead of a hateful moment. Yes. And that was one of the things that has been big for me and took time. And I think it's true for most of us, like as kids, it's like to realize that you get to be human and your parents get to be human too. And that our humanity isn't isn't a problem. It's just the stuff that life's made up of. It's on the other side of those conversations you're avoiding, right?
00:36:28
Speaker
I love that. I had already been contemplating for this month, starting an evening gratitude journal. I have had friends who have done that. It's a good thing. And I have had seasons where I've done the daily examine, but it's like, oh, that could just be a nice layer. Like to just put that on top of the gratitude journal takes five to seven minutes, right? Like you don't, you could have it take 30, but you don't. But it doesn't have to. Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
And I do think, Katie, as you're becoming a mother, your your humanity, you are going to be more and more aware. More and more human. More and more human. Which isn't the lane I like to be in. Yes. That's good. That's good stuff. With that, yeah, I'm looking forward to the next week. Me too.
00:37:22
Speaker
The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by myself, Katie Stafford, and edited by Erin Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson, and all our guests are part of the Red Tent Living community.
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Speaker
You can find us all at redtoliving.com as well as on Facebook and Instagram. If you love the stories shared here, we