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Does Lightroom Need These LR Classic Features?
2.6k Plays4 months ago
Many people have chosen to use Lightroom over Lightroom Classic because of it's simplicity and cloud features. However, Lightroom is missing a lot of features compared to Classic, and in this episode Matt Kloskowski and Brian Matiash talk about what features may need to come over in order for more people to use it.
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Transcript
Introduction to Frame of Mine Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Well, welcome back, everybody, to another Frame of Mine, or I should say photography Frame of Mine podcast, where we talk about different ideas and topics to try to change, mold, manipulate, solidify, whatever you want to call it, your Frame of Mine about certain photography, photo editing, and shooting
Meet the Hosts: Brian Mateusch and Co.
00:00:25
Speaker
topics. Today I'm joined, once again, by my buddy Brian Mateusch. What's going on? Hey-oh! What's going on, Matt? Thanks for having me me on. I always, you know, I told you I always love being on the show and I'm especially excited about this topic. Yeah, that's a good one. I specifically picked you for we because we both use Lightroom in a different way. But it's so we present a different a similar but different be hard to take somebody that didn't use Lightroom at all.
Formats and Consumption: Audio, Visual, and Speed
00:00:51
Speaker
um So Brian is a photo educator in the business as am I. You can find Brian over at Matias.com, M-A-T-I-A-S-H. Find me over at matk.com. We teach photo editing, photography related topics. um The podcast is is is audio. ah There is a ah ah visual version on my website if you ever want to go to it, but it's just us talking. um And you know i like like so many things, i I actually recommend people like speed it up. Yeah. um i I speed everything up like to the point where now when I listen to things, if I listen to a YouTube video, which by the way, I pretty much only listen to like certain podcasts and like golf YouTube videos. But if I listen to my regular speed, it sounds like the person's talking in slow motion to me. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, the same thing kind of with ah to a degree with audiobooks. I do like 1.25. I'm a 1.25 kind of guy. I'm a 1.5 guy.
00:01:50
Speaker
oh how you see youre You're living in the future. I'm still here in the present. I'll even push it to 1.75 at times. You're just now you're and you're just crazy. You're just crazy. You're going to talk it really fast. It's really, really hard to understand. It's going to be really fast. and yeah Anybody that sped it up has no idea what you just said there. It went ludicrous speed past them.
Lightroom vs. Lightroom Classic: Needs and Differences
00:02:15
Speaker
So our topic today is, what does Lightroom need to to really hang with Lightroom Classic? And this is an interesting one for both Brian and I to do, because
00:02:28
Speaker
We both pretty much just use Lightroom. By the way, we're we're talking about, you know, Lightroom Classic is the old version of Lightroom, came out in the early 2000s. Lightroom is just called Lightroom. That's the one that came out in like 2015. If you look at the icons for each one, one says LR, one says LRC. That's how you would tell which program you're using apart from there. But they both come with with all your Adobe plans. So if you've got one, if you've got Lightroom Classic, you have Lightroom. I can't say the same the other way. around but what What does it need? you know What what kind of kind of things does it need? And I think the the hard part here, I think you'll agree with me, Brian, is that at some point, somebody has to be the gatekeeper because the answer is not make it like Lightroom Classic. Lightroom Classic was built in a different time for different needs and has a lot of features that I think we don't need in another version of Lightroom. Yeah, the last thing that um
00:03:29
Speaker
Adobe and should do or needs to do is basically rebuild Lightroom Classic. i mean this what what like What Adobe should focus on is taking anything the the most important things from Classic and not just bringing it over, but actually making it even better than it was before. Yeah. And Lightroom Classic was built in a time when photography education and software was being geared, because nobody knew. it Photography was not much of a hobby before digital photography. you You had to be a total geek for photography to be a hobby for you, because it was a very geeky mathematical, technical thing. It was also expensive. What's that? It was also expensive.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, it was very expensive. And it was just, I don't want to say geek in a bad way. I just say it was a very technical very technical process. And the infancy of of digital photography was just there when Lightroom Classic came out. So it was really built toward the professional photographer. And and the people that Adobe was going to to solicit features from was really professional photographers. as time has gone on, the professional photography industry has definitely declined.
Evolution: From Professional to Hobbyist Photographers
00:04:48
Speaker
And the hobbyist enthusiasts, I don't say hobbyist enthusiasts in a bad way, that's the majority. Like, if you're a hobbyist and enthusiast, you are who the photography industry is catering to, don't think it's just catering to pros, because there's not enough of them to sustain a business and in most cases. So, Leitman-Hasselk was built with a different customer in mind.
00:05:09
Speaker
And now the challenge Adobe has is to figure out how do we still create a program that hobbyists and enthusiasts can use, but maybe professionals can use as well. Cause professionals needs have changed.
Mobile Photography and Cloud Computing Impact
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think also we can't ignore the fact that, you know, over the past 10 or so years, even 12 years, the rise of mobile photography and cloud-based computing have exploded and Lightroom Classic was never, that was not something that was thought of. when when It wasn't even now. It was now, yeah, the devices didn't exist, the infrastructure didn't exist. So, you know, I i think that this version of Lightroom, it is a much larger, it attempts to cast a much larger, much wider net. um So yeah, I think what you're saying is 100% spot on.
00:06:05
Speaker
And let's be clear, what neither one of us think Classic is going away anytime soon. um i I could see the day where Adobe, and I still think this day is years and years off, I could see the day where Adobe kind of sunsets it, if that's the right term, where Adobe just says, listen, we're not taking it away from you, and we're actually still gonna continuously update it to work on new operating systems, but we will not be adding more features to it.
Future of Lightroom Classic: Speculations and Concerns
00:06:35
Speaker
Yes. um and I don't think they're going to take that ah away anytime soon. I think anybody listening that's invested in Classic, you're going to be able to use it longer longer than you think you're going to be able to use it for. Whether you get new features remains to be seen, but you'll be able to use it and and not have it break on you. Yeah.
00:06:55
Speaker
So none of this has anything to do with that, but I think that the challenge that they're gonna have is to figure out ah the features we're gonna talk about here today. How many of them go into Lightroom from Lightroom Classic? And I would just say, i hope I hope, and I think there is somebody at the home there that is being that gatekeeper. i know You and I have talked, Brian, like I went to On One. We don't have to go into the long story about being at Kelby and going On One, but I just remember one of the reasons yeah if OnOne was coming out with a full-fledged raw editing software.
00:07:29
Speaker
If I was still there, i I would hope that that program would actually be very different. um I left in the infancy of it being developed because I knew I wasn't going to leave Lightroom and I knew I wasn't. It was silly for me to work for a company that was going to create competing software to it because I didn't want to leave Adobe or I didn't want to not use anything but Adobe. But I just remember over the years watching them just recreate Lightroom Classic with a different pricing model. And they just kept pounding the same features in there. So we now we have two exact same softwares that don't help anybody um you know because they do the same thing. So I hope there's a gatekeeper that says, no, I know people want that, but we don't think this is part of the bigger picture. And let's let's really be deliberate. So I'll let you kick it off with with what what's a feature that people are asking for and thoughts on whether we need it or not.
Feature Desires: Mapping, Printing, and More
00:08:20
Speaker
I mean, the one that I'm asking for, because and this is something I actually miss from Classic, and that's the Maps module. um Again, Lightroom has geotagged support. If your photo has ah coordinates or or map information in the metadata, Lightroom will show it to you on Lightroom desktop only. Lightroom mobile has no geotagging support whatsoever. But I did like, in the Lightroom Classic, the Maps module specifically, I like being able to see a plot of either, you know, a region or even the entire world and seeing, you know, here are photos I took here, here from a, as a kind of a landscape photographer, it really does help with the the um kind of a yeah preparing. So yeah, I would like to see more robust mapping. I could see it. It's interesting. And and this is why, you know, you're a good one to do this with.
00:09:12
Speaker
and And you're not alone in that. it's That's one of the features I keep you know having people ask about. It's a feature that in the almost 20 years I've been teaching Lightroom Classic, I have only used when I had to teach it. Yes. So it's just going to show everybody everybody's different. you know yeah and And that's again, that's the challenge Adobe has if they're going to create a program for for people to move to. um What about you? So I'll i'll i'll go with them. we'll we'll We'll work at the module level first, and then we'll dive into some specific features. So I'll go with ah oh with with print. Lightroom right now doesn't have anything geared for printing. um this This one's tough because I don't think most people that use the print module in classic are using all the fancy layout features. I i think most people doing a print are just like, hey, just fill a page with a photo.
00:10:07
Speaker
You know, like just give me a print. yeah um So that print module is very robust for laying things out. My alternative and and what I started using about five-ish years ago was Epson Print Layout. And that came from talking to somebody at Epson that just told me how it natively works with the the printers. Epson Print, the software that comes with your Epson and Canon printer for free. So Canon Print Studio and Epson Print Layout. They keep you from getting tripped up in the printing process for all the profiles and the color and the paper and all this stuff. They help you circumvent a lot of that and make it simpler to get the right print based on the profile and paper you're using, which you can very easily mess up inside of Lightroom and Photoshop. so For five years, I've been using Epsom Print Layout, and I've been teaching it. I've been telling other people, use Epsom Print Layout.
00:11:01
Speaker
now If you really wanted to lay out text and multiple photos and all those things, yeah, it'd be a little bit tough to do that. But um ah you know some of the best printers i I've followed and I learned from some great printers, that people that use Canon printers, and they use Canon Print Studio Pro. They have access to all these other programs. They use the software that comes with the printer. The best of the best uses the software that comes with the printer. so
00:11:30
Speaker
I think it's going to be hard to get away from it. But again, for me personally, I just use Canon Print Studio or Epsom Print Layout. um But if you need all the layout options, that's going to really bloat Lightroom and make it... make it make it that's ah That's a big feature to bring that layout control over into a new program. Yeah, yeah, I think I think at the very least just give file print and like use the like Apple has its own print or Windows has its own print thing. It's basic use paper size paper quality. I think what you said is correct. Most people yeah I think just want to print of you know, eight by 10 or five by seven.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's probably the better way to do it. Just bring bring in print. Don't don't just bring a very complicated print module. Just bring in a way to print, choose a paper, choose a profile, we're done. Yeah.
Using Apple Photos: Personal Experience
00:12:25
Speaker
So what you got one that I know a lot of classic users you know wanted to see Lightroom, got it in Lightroom with with the May update, but it's like it's as bare bones as possible, yep and that is Slideshow. Lightroom Classic has a nice Slideshow feature, I will give you that much. and you know If you're gonna do it, like I said, if you're gonna take something from Lightroom Classic and put it into Lightroom,
00:12:53
Speaker
make it better in this case i would say it was like the bare minnow so you you select an album you hit play and you can choose the transition speed and i think that's it And that's it. Yeah, yeah I don't think and don't think that quelched the thirst of people who wanted it slideshow and in Lightroom. I'd say at minimum, yeah they're close. Yeah, they're close. You need an intro and an outro slide. Yes. Because people need to know when it's starting and they need to know when it's over yeahp and you need music.
00:13:30
Speaker
Yes. If you want to one up, it's sync it to music, you know, sync it to a beat or something like that, too. That's exactly what I'm talking about. but God, again, that's that's a complex piece of software. um and And I don't know how popular slide shows are these days. Like, are people standing in front of groups giving slide shows? And it's not to say people listening don't have to do it inside their camera club. But are we talking There's thousands of people doing it. Are we talking, there's millions upon millions of people doing it? Because if there's just thousands, it shouldn't be a feature. yeah it won't you These features need to approach the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands and millions, I think.
00:14:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's super quickly, very very personal, but you know my father passed away a week ago and we've had family come up come through. And what we did every day, family and friends, is we would we my sister and I had a shared album where we with Apple Photos, and we just put all of our photos of our dad that we had into this thing. And Apple did it right. I mean, it did exactly what you said, Matt. it it um it created these beautiful slideshows. We didn't have to do anything,
Enhancing Lightroom: Slideshow and Plugin Support
00:14:44
Speaker
and it it paired it to to nice music. So yeah I think that, I think the ability to cast a slideshow to another display, which Lightroom can't do, so but slideshow, yeah, there you go. I almost, ah for me personally, I'd just say leave that one to to the OS, to Windows or to the phone and Google, Windows, Apple, whatever, leave that one to them. I'm with you.
00:15:08
Speaker
um We're not even going to talk web. The web module should have been should have been taken out to pasture 20 years ago. it should but what One year after it came out, it should have been killed off. So we won't even talk the web module. Adobe did add, and that's where Lightroom is better. Lightroom has better integration for websites yeah um where you get a web gallery. And you can kind of do it in Lightroom Classic if you sync files and all that stuff. But the actual web module should go away. So we won't even talk more about that one. What about books? I'll let you let you take what's next here. i mean now we're go to start got You're going to start jumping into features, right?
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, we didn't talk about books. Well, but but but to me, honestly, books is the same thing as slideshow. I would rather leave that to a proprietary like a blurb or or you know just there are websites and companies that have mastered, have like they have templates that you know it's going to look good when you produce the book. Because a designer made them. because a designer made them. Exactly right. And same thing with web. Like, I don't want to have to. That's the thing. Yeah. So like, it's like the MySpace days where you had control of everything and you see how terrible it is to like, where yeah, you know, like a Squarespace where you you have to go out of your way to make it look bad. So you and I have seen way too many photo books where somebody took a beautiful image, made a photo book in Lightroom and they used Comic Sans on the front.
00:16:38
Speaker
tragic. Go to blurb dot.com. Use their professional looking templates, make a book there. You get constantly updated features versus whatever was added into the software hour a minute years ago. Yep. So what do you got? um All right. so we' we'll drive We'll dig down into the actual specific features, not modules now. so I'll go with ah plugin support yep um plug support.-in support is a very highly requested one. I understand it. there There's two aspects to this. There's your plug-ins like Skylum's and your Topaz's and your On One effects and those things, where I think the workaround inside a Lightroom is actually better.
00:17:21
Speaker
And then there's niche plugins. um What's the like a, I can't think of one. Yeah. Yeah. Like little niche plugins that plug into Lightroom classic that do things that Lightroom classic doesn't do. Yes. So those, yeah, you know, open up Lightroom to be able to allow creators to to make those, and maybe they do already, and creators just aren't making it for those. um The other one, the topaz and the on one effects and all those things, I never thought it was a good workflow. um when you When you go from Lightroom Classic to a plugin, it automatically creates a large, large TIFF copy.
00:18:00
Speaker
You get into that plugin. If you bailed on it and didn't like it, you were stuck with that large TIFF copy there, whether you realized it or not, or deleted it or not, it was filling up your hard drive. And then it's destructive. You come back. You don't have layers. You don't have masks. You don't know all these things. So you come back and if you're like, yeah, I kind of want to redo this, you you really can't, you'd have to start over again. So to me, the workaround that I teach with Lightroom is open it up in Photoshop, make a copy of the layer, go to the filter menu, run the plugin. Now you got a layer, masks, selections, opacity, blend modes, saves it as a layer back to Lightroom. I think that's a better workflow to begin with. Now, do I think Adobe is going to add plugin support? Probably.
00:18:43
Speaker
yeah i don't think I don't think me marching down my my better better path is going to work, but it's the way that I will continue to use it even if they do add plug-in support. yeah um You know, since we're kind of then talking about kind of features and stuff, there are kind of two that I know I've heard, I've seen a lot of people ask
Advanced Features: Color Labels and Hierarchical Keywords
00:19:04
Speaker
for. I don't personally, I haven't had them since, because I've been a Lightroom user since it came out, the new Lightroom. And that's color labels and hierarchical keywords. Like, i I understand. I'm not saying that those of you who use it don't need it. I'm not going to say that. I'm just saying that
00:19:23
Speaker
I don't know. Between stars, flags, and flat keywords, which we have, I've never been like, man, the thing that's holding me back is totally unbelievable. I can't call this label it. Right. I mean, I can understand to a degree hierarchical keywords for people who are kind of really obsessive compulsive about that stuff, but it goes back to what you said, Matt, and really what you said goes across for every feature. Are we talking about of some a few thousand people, or are we talking about hundreds of thousands or millions of people? Because that's ultimately any good business will make a decision that scales, and and that's really what it is.
00:20:05
Speaker
yeah and I know those features seem small. Well, just give me color labels. Just give me a hierarchical keywords. But when you keep adding those, just give me these five little features. And you do that every release, you get a bloated mess. Yes. And you get a very bloated program like we have in Lightroom Classic now that takes you know hours and hours to teach somebody how to use. But I would say, yeah, hi hierarchical keywords is you are the advance to the advance. You you are
00:20:38
Speaker
you are in the you are in the small fractional percentage of people that use it. And again, I understand you might need them, but you just have to understand you're not the masses and you have to expect your options are going to be limited if you want a program like that. Yes. What else? do we Oh, this a year I know you're going to like this one too. Top level folder search and browse. Sure. What I mean is, is let's say you have a photos folder, And then inside that folder, you've got a whole bunch of other subfolders. Right now, if you click that top level photos folder, it won't show you anything. You've got to click on the specific subfolder and you can't search that way either. In the local section, in the cloud section, yeah, you can search through all photos. um But I think...
Search and Usability: Balancing Features and Simplicity
00:21:28
Speaker
It's something that I thought I wanted having used Lightroom for almost a year now without it. It doesn't bug me too much every once in a while. Oh my God, I forgot. But I think they're going to have to add that, i especially search. Yes. Your thoughts? I agree with you 100%. I think it's, um you know, I've been saying that this, when people bring this up, that this is kind of like Lightroom Local version one. And that made sense when it was when it was first released in October, and we were still talking about this in January. but We're in June now. I would like to see Adobe do this.
00:22:07
Speaker
I think it would help a lot of people. And I think it would make it a lot more palatable for more classic users who want to give this a shot. Because I do think this is like, someone sees this and they're like, this is like, this is bush league. Like, what are we talking about here? We can't even, so I think it's a worthwhile one. Yeah, I think i think they're think that one's going to have to come out. I said it hasn't been it's been almost a year because I started using it last summer in beta. um I got the beta version and I was like, I'm hooked. I'm in this is I remember you were pumped. You were pumped. Yeah. I'm like, man, you have just simplified my life so much. Yeah. um
00:22:46
Speaker
Every once in a while it bites me, but it hasn't killed me. But yeah, I think they're gonna have to add that one. BC, I don't wanna belabor this, but that's the point. You see, that's the that's to me the, you and I, but you say oh yeah, you know what, once in a while, it would be really nice to have, but we don't sweat it. And I think that that that's a thing that a lot of people should kind of keep in mind. Like, ask yourself, okay, are we what are we really talking about here? Like, is this like a thing that like, you know, like how you have like a a little, ah a chip in your tooth that's that's pressing against your gum type of thing where it's like constantly annoying. No, we're we're talking about probably something like you just said it, Matt, once in a while it bites you, like, yeah. Auto advance is a good feature, is a good example of that. Like i had so I wrote a little post and I had people comment and somebody's like auto advance, without auto advance I can't move over. I'm like, really? Really? That's the one feature that's holding you back
00:23:45
Speaker
Right. And that's a hard one for me because auto advance and noise the crap out of me. I turn it off because I'll be in develop. And i'll I'll be like, Oh, yeah, I kind of like this photo too. Yeah, I like it hit P and it go to the next one. I'm like, No, I don't want it to go to the next one. I wanted to stay. But that's what's holding you back auto advance. so The problem is when you have too many hills to die on, it's just kind of like, all right, like you got to pick and choose. um For me, one of the things that Lightroom has this feature, but Lightroom Classic, I prefer its implementation.
Advanced Editing: Virtual Copies and Smart Collections
00:24:22
Speaker
In Lightroom Classic, it's called virtual copies. In Lightroom, it's called version. So Lightroom has this really...
00:24:29
Speaker
The way versions works, I think, is better in Lightroom. But Lightroom Classic, you can see your virtual copies in the grid view. So you can see different versions next to each other. With um with Lightroom, you can't also, and I know this this does affect you, because you're primarily a local guy, there is no versions. So effectively, there is no virtual copies for local people. You have to sync it to the cloud, which is is kind of a bummer. i I agree, that's a big one. Yeah, i it's it' it's I think it's definitely something they're going to have to add because enough people ask for it. um Again, I have to separate personal from the greater good. um When I used to teach a one-day Lightroom seminar, I used to teach all these ways to use virtual copies. I made them up. yeah I don't even know.
00:25:18
Speaker
yeah to be like, oh yeah, you can make a black and white and a sepia toned one and this and you can show it to a client and you can have them pick which one. I never did it. I just used to teach it. I was stuck with the whole seminar that I had to fill eight hours with. And you have to get creative trust. Brother, I know it. I know it. But when I will say for me, I like it. People like that one though. Well, yeah, for me, it's it's the different ah crops, like a square version, you know, for so far, because a lot of times i I need a photo to be shared on different platforms and like maybe Instagram is a square and maybe I want to do ah one of those vertical ah nine by 16s. It's just easy to have different versions. um and And you want to make it better, ah like, you know, better than what Lightroom Classic has. Give a virtual copy presets, automatically create these things
00:26:13
Speaker
at once. you know So so ah one of one of the features that a lot of people ask for are export presets, where yeah when you go to the file export menu and you can choose from a whole bunch of presets. Again, I have a hard time believing that one's a deal breaker and i i've I chatted with people who have very, very specific reasons that they need it. And that makes sense. i don't I don't think that that one's a deal breaker. But again, to make it better for a more online world, why not when I go to file export, give me a social media thing that opens up a screen and it shows the photo, it says Instagram four by five and it allows me to wiggle the photo in the crop and then Facebook, you know, 1280 by 720 and allows me to wiggle the photo in the right crop all at once, click a button, boom, they're all exported at the right sizes.
00:27:05
Speaker
Exactly right. I agree 100%. Smart collections is one that comes up. It's a big one. Yeah, it's a big one that automatically makes collections for you. Sorry to cut you off. No, no, I would say it's a big one in what you were talking about, Matt, where a lot of people ask for it. That's what I mean by not necessarily that it's very important. A lot of people ask for it. But you were giving a good idea, though. I like that idea. Yeah, with the export presets, I could i could see, you again, taking something and making it better for a very specific purpose, which again, we know Lightroom is more made for this online world, something like that. yeah know Rather than just, you know if you're going to put export presets in there, one up it in that case, it wouldn't do it better. But yeah, Smart Collections, I think, again, not personally something I use, um but I think you you you got people that really got used to this workflow of Smart Collections and
00:28:04
Speaker
I could see ah could see something like that having you some people really feeling like they need that one. Yeah, i mean for me, really quickly, I could see them binding smart collections with their built-in Sensei. Again, this would be a cloud-only thing. not low It could be local, but like I want a smart collection that shows all waterfalls. And even if they're not tagged or anything, but Lightroom's using its Sensei AI too, it knows what a waterfall is and it just will put waterfall photos. It's a great idea.
00:28:37
Speaker
yeah It's a really good idea. Again, to to take what's already there and make it better. That feature's already there. I can search i can search for the word owl in a cloud album, and it will find all owls. Yes, or paris, um or, you know, turn that into a collection, and then any new owls that appear in that album or in that my photos go automatically into that. cause That's pretty cool. That's exactly right. Yeah. Make it happen. I'm on it. I'm gonna just start working on it. A big one, we and we've talked about this too, is just kind of like better Photoshop
Lightroom-Photoshop Integration: Needs and Future
00:29:13
Speaker
integration. We we touched on your workflow of like sending photos to Photoshop for plugins, um but you know, you can only
00:29:24
Speaker
You can send more than one photo at a time to Photoshop from Lightroom, but it's you can only do it one at a time. For people who want to do um compositing or focus stacking, for example, this is something I can see. like It would be nice for Adobe to give people that functionality. Or, to be honest, if we're talking about focus stacking, just build a focus stacking photo merge like they have with HDR and Pano. and and yeah yeah Yeah, I would love to know I'd love to know the numbers behind focus stacking because it's again, that's a very high level things. Yes, I would almost see as we as we progress in photography, I would almost see focus stacking being used less and less possible. um I'm curious. like I just I would love to know the numbers. I know there's focus stacking plugins out there. I would love to know their sales numbers. Like are are there cells on the incline? Are they on the decline? You know,
00:30:24
Speaker
I think we know the answer. Yeah. Um, but yeah, better Photoshop integration. I think a lot of, you know, opening multiple files in there, you know, I could see some, some reasons for doing that. If you want to do exposure, blending and and different things like that compositing, I would say you're probably not really using Lightroom for a lot of that yeah is our history, a history panel. So we can undo, but you just don't have that history panel to step back through inside a Lightroom like you do in Lightroom Classic. right you can I would say that's that's not low-hanging fruit. i would say I would say I'd be okay without it.
00:31:07
Speaker
yes so What do you got?
00:31:16
Speaker
This is so something I've also heard a lot of. like You've heard like smart collection stuff, but... And I don't get it, but like a lot of people want to be able to have better like custom naming on import um and and export.
Professional Features: Naming, Tethering, and Dual Monitor Support
00:31:32
Speaker
And export. Yeah, and the thing is, in Lightroom, you can specify a custom file. No, you can... You can put a custom file name, but you can't create like a a logic statement that you can't like you can with Lightroom Classic. yeah I can understand wanting that for export. I don't understand people's the amount of people who are like, I want to rename my photos on import.
00:32:02
Speaker
i I must be missing something, because this is just not something that ever was like, oh man, this is what's keeping me from advancing to the next phase of my photography. yeah Yeah, I think and i think that that and custom naming on export, at least say you and you can do custom names. It's just not as robust as classic. I'd say a lot of that comes from the people that want hierarchical keywords. It's got very complex digital asset management systems. yes And if that's you, ah personally, if I were at the home of Adobe running Lightroom,
00:32:38
Speaker
I would say we we are going to relinquish that audience to something else. either keep them on classic, let them keep doing what they're doing, or but we're not going after that audience that needs the hierarchical keywords, that needs the crazy custom names and all those things. I would say, I know it's gonna take some people off, but we are not gonna make this program for everybody. If we make this program for everybody, we make it for nobody. So we're gonna have to relinquish a certain portion of the audience. And and that's that's what I would give up.
00:33:11
Speaker
yep I'm with you. What do you got? um Kind of talked about them. I have multiple layer support in Photoshop. That's more of the Photoshop integration, being able to you know file open as layers in Photoshop. ah Tethering? Yeah. that's ah That's a very common one. um I don't do it, but if you're going to, if you're gonna say we wanna make Lightroom for somewhat of a pro market as well, you need tethering. Yes, you need to, there are some overtures that Adobe will need to make um for that because ah you're right. ah There are pros out there. They want to get everyone happy, including the pros. And I understand that and I can admire that. And to that end, I mean, I don't use it either. So, but it needs to be there.
00:34:01
Speaker
it's gotta to be It's got to be fairly used because here we are in 2024 and Adobe just came out with Sony tethering, which i neith there was a problem communicating with Sony cameras. I don't know whose fault it was on it, but they finally did it, which meant people were still asking for it because I can't assume that they would have put manpower behind it if people weren't asking for it. So um yeah, there's got to be enough desire for that feature. And if you're going to try to to get that over, I would say you need it. i Yeah, and and you know, another speaking of overtures to the pros, I would say like dual monitor support. You know, classic does have that. i When I was a classic user, I i did use that. i I have two displays over here. I think the ability to kind of have, if you need more, what we call kind of information density, you just need more stuff in front of you. maybe Or maybe you just want the grid on one display and your editor on the other display.
00:34:59
Speaker
You know, um but again, if you're going to do it, make it better than it was. I don't know what that means, what that looks like, but try to make it different. It was a little clunky and classic. Was it? I don't remember it. i Yeah. it's It's done the way that it needs to be done. It's just because you can't move parts of the interface around. Right, right. he Found it a little clunky, which brings us to another one, which is rearranging the interface.
Custom Interface and User Feedback
00:35:28
Speaker
And I think Adobe should do that. I think Adobe should take what, you know, that that was a big criticism. You can hide panels and you can change the order of panels in classic.
00:35:38
Speaker
but You can't rearrange them and put you know what's on the right, on the left, and you know peel one off and attach it somewhere else. and so i i think I think that's one that they should do. you know Photoshop does it. I know people like that in Photoshop. People like their custom workspaces. and While I wouldn't use it, I'm kind of a plain Jane when it comes to that stuff. you know and I have lots because we both teach, so I don't customize my workspace a lot. The moment you do it, you get 100 messages from people. Well, mine doesn't look like that. yes
00:36:10
Speaker
yeah um so so So for better or for worse, I've just become ah accustomed to not customizing anything. um But yeah, I think that's a place where they can can one-up a Lightroom Classic and make make the the interface a little bit more adjustable. I agree, Shiri. Any closing thoughts there, Mr. Matias? No, I mean, I think i think ah there were some really, like, there's definitely, if ah if someone ah on the Lightroom team at Adobe were to listen to this episode, tonight and I'm quite positive, I'm confident that there are people on the team who listen to this show. they Not even this show, but you've got you've got a lot. Adobe's come under fire a little bit for because of terms of service, and I hate to cut you off on this, but I think it's important to mention,
00:36:59
Speaker
They've come under fire a little bit in terms of service, and everybody sees them as this big, horrible company. And the the people that I've talked to there, I don't talk to them a lot anymore, but I do know that they care. every Every one of those employees wants to make a good product for you. They might work for a big corporation that has its needs. It's a big corporation, but they really want to make a good product for you. So um whether they're listening to this podcast or whatever, trust me, they have their ear to the ground. they're not They're not approaching the world with with hands over their eyes and ears and saying, we're going to do what we're going to do. They're there're they're listening to people. So sorry. No, no. well you I mean, I think that's wonderful. I think 100%
Looking Ahead: The Future of Lightroom
00:37:43
Speaker
I agree with. My point is, like I think what we covered here, there's enough enough for a product manager to create a really good
00:37:54
Speaker
prioritized list. things These are things we really should consider. These are things we just don't need to consider. um and so yeah yeah i think I think the future is very bright for Lightroom. Everything we talked about, I stand by. Yeah. where For some people, it's not there yet and I totally get it. um you know I'm going to keep talking about it. You're going to keep talking about it because we we we recognize the benefits of it and and I feel if it if it works for me and it works for you, there's a lot of people out there that it can work for.
00:38:30
Speaker
um yeah This really almost is the Lightroom that I've always wanted, and it's enough of the Lightroom that I've always wanted that I really don't have a need to use Classic anymore for it. So I'm willing um willing to to do some of the workarounds because ah of the the simple workflow for it. so um where can ah where where Everybody find out more about you. What do you got? What are you working on these days? yeah ah Just my website, like you mentioned, Matias.com. ah And the the thing that I would recommend is like, you know, I have a course, and you we out it's this thing I love, my Lightroom Everywhere course primarily focuses on the cloud side of Lightroom. And you've got yours that is more for people who are like you, who are just like from classic to Lightroom, who want to focus on the local side of things. yeah um So yeah.
00:39:17
Speaker
cool. I love that. um I know you got some presets on there. And you've got a landscape course on there as well. So make sure you swing by and pick up brian's website and then you find me over at matk.com. ah Both of us have email list signups at the bottom. And we're we're very respectful of our email list. So we don't spam people where we take great care of our email list. So good free content and you know the occasional sale every once in a while, but that that'd be a great place to follow both of us and and any new videos and things that we do on the website. so Hey, thanks for ah thanks for joining me on this one. I enjoyed this i enjoy this talk. I think people will enjoy hearing a little bit more of that. I think you know you you hear a lot of, yes, I need that. You could probably see people in the behind their computer screaming, yes, I want this one. so That was great. I appreciate it.
00:40:06
Speaker
All right, guys, thank you for giving us a little bit of your time today. By all means, feel free to swing by the website. If you want to see the visual version of it, just click on matk.com and just click on podcast at the top. But in the meantime, we will see you again or talk to you again.