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"Can I Try Again?" with Tracy Johnson and Tina Huey
149 Plays10 months ago
Family relationships are often fraught with tension-filled moments of gridlock. How do we break free from familiar patterns? How do we carve a different path? Friends Tracy and Tina explore what it looks like to bravely try again in the relationships that matter most. As these women share about a relationship with a parent and a relationship with a spouse, they give all of us a window on ways to practice boundaries and forgiveness, gentleness and courage.
For anyone whose ever felt heartbreak or longing after abandonment and for anyone whose ever spoken a harsh word and needed a do over, this conversation is for you.
For more stories from brave, ordinary women, join us at Red Tent Living.
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Transcript
Introduction to Red Tent Living Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Hailey Wiggers, and this is the Red Tent Living Podcast, where brave women host honest conversations about our beautiful and hard ordinary. This season, we connect on stories of family. We're excited for you to join us. Welcome to our table.
Boundaries & Hope in Relationships
00:00:20
Speaker
In this episode, Tracy and Tina discuss the topic. Can I try again?
00:00:27
Speaker
Throughout the episode, they discuss the ebb and flow of placing boundaries on relationships, the exhaustion that comes with extending olive branches, and the hope of trying again and again and naming when something feels hard. The stories are very different.
00:00:52
Speaker
So I hope you can hold both Tina and Tracy's stories uniquely, but then they beautifully tie together at the end. So I hope you also hear the weaving of the stories and enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Enjoy the episode.
A Day in the Lives of Tina and Tracy
00:01:11
Speaker
Hello, Tina. It's good to see you. Hi, Tracy. So happy to be here. Was it a long day getting to here?
00:01:22
Speaker
Yes, it was. Yes, it was. One in at seven this morning. Oh, that is a long day. I wasn't in at seven, but I was in at eight. So I too have had a long day. So thank you for adding this to the end of your long day. I was looking forward to it all day, actually.
00:01:43
Speaker
Oh, good. I'm glad. I'm glad.
Tina's Story: Father, Neglect, and Reconciliation
00:01:46
Speaker
Well, so as is our pattern, we'll each read our story and then have a chance to respond to one another. Would you like to go first or would you rather have me read first? I can read first. Okay. Why don't you read first? Let me get my story. Okay. Here we go.
00:02:10
Speaker
This is adhering to the vulnerability here in my story. As I sit down to write this essay, I am confronted with the stark reality of a relationship that exists in fragments, a mere shadow of what it once was. The bond between a father and daughter
00:02:33
Speaker
once strong and unyielding, now hangs by thread, frayed by years of neglect and misunderstanding. Our interactions are fleeting, our conversations surface level, lacking the depth and intimacy that once defined us. What was once a pillar of support and guidance has become a distant echo, a ghost of a relationship that barely exists. As I reflect on the journey to rebuild my relationship with my father,
00:03:02
Speaker
I'm overwhelmed by a mix of emotions, hope, frustration, and a deep longing for connection. Our story is marked by missed chances, words left unspoken, and the weight of unresolved issues. Can I try again? Can I hope for a healthy father-daughter relationship?
00:03:23
Speaker
My father's demeanor has always puzzled me. He carries himself with an air of superiority, as if his own importance outweighs that of his daughter. Around him, there is an undeniable awkwardness, a result of years of neglect and emotional distance. Despite being physically present, he has never admitted to any wrongdoing or taken responsibility for his actions.
00:03:49
Speaker
His inability to acknowledge my feelings or the impact of his behavior leaves me wondering if reconciliation is even possible. There are fleeting moments that offer a glimmer of hope, like when my father would occasionally pick up my old son from school and treat him to ice cream. However, these instances were so rare that my son doesn't even remember them.
00:04:12
Speaker
These brief acts of fatherly affection stand in stark contrast to his overall inconsistency in maintaining meaningful connections. Despite living in the same city as my older brother for a decade, my father never bothered to let me know when he was in town visiting, deepening my sense of abandonment. The impact on my father's behavior extends beyond our immediate family to my own children. They too feel uneasy around their grandfather.
00:04:41
Speaker
witnessing firsthand his lack of engagement and selfishness. My youngest son in particular has a strong sense of responsibility and seeks accountability from his grandfather. Their observations over the years have shaped the negative opinion of him, making it even harder for me to envision a path to reconciliation. Despite the challenges and disappointments, I find myself considering the possibility of a fresh start.
00:05:10
Speaker
Can I approach our relationship differently? Can I extend an olive branch despite years of hurt and neglect? These questions weigh heavily on my mind. As I grapple with the complexities of our history, I yearn for renewed connection, but I also fear the potential for further disappointment. As time passes, I've noticed a change in my father. He's growing older, his steps slower, as if each stride carries the weight of years gone by.
00:05:42
Speaker
Despite being remarried for a third time, there's a sense of loneliness that surrounds him. I often find myself feeling a deep sadness for him whenever he crosses my mind. During the rare occasions when I've had the chance to visit with him, I've noticed a shift in his demeanor. He no longer exudes the joy or vitality he once did. Instead, there's a heaviness in his gaze, a weariness that seems to weigh him down.
00:06:11
Speaker
It's as if the passage of time has left him depleted with little room for the happiness that once defined him. For me, trying to maintain a relationship with him has been exhausting. The effort to bridge the gap between us has often felt like a one-sided endeavor. Despite my attempts to connect, there's a distance that remains, a barrier that seems insurmountable at times.
00:06:39
Speaker
In these moments, I can't help but wonder about the life he's led, the choices he's made, and the burdens he carries. It's a portrait of an older man, navigating the complexities of life with the loneliness that echoes in his eyes. As I sit by the window, tears well up in my eyes as I look at old photographs of my father. His absence weighs heavy on my heart, and I wonder if we'll ever find our way back to each other.
00:07:08
Speaker
My path to reconcile with my father is a testament to the complications of family dynamics. It's a journey marked by resilience, forgiveness, and a willingness to confront painful truths.
00:07:20
Speaker
While the road ahead may be challenging, I'm determined to explore every possibility of healing and restoration. I've always held on to the hope that one day I'll be able to reconcile with my father. Despite our past differences, I believe in the power of forgiveness and the possibility of rebuilding our relationship.
Tracy's Response & Support
00:07:39
Speaker
I acknowledge that he was likely doing the best he could at the time. However, I often find myself questioning whether this was truly the case.
00:07:50
Speaker
So first it's so beautifully written, Tina. I could just feel how present and observant you are. And I think like you always have been about your dad.
00:08:08
Speaker
I think early on one of the lines that struck me as you were kind of unpacking what was to what is, you said, what was once a pillar of support is now a ghost of a relationship.
00:08:24
Speaker
And I just, I think I could feel the haunting of how it is now, you know, these words. And I'm an only, I'm his own, well, I'm one of four, but the only girl. So you're spot on with that. It's like a presence that was here and now it's just the ghost, the what I can remember, just the times I can remember.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Emma, in your words, the years of neglect, I think you said it actually like two or three times that you talked about, like just years, years of neglect and the impact of it. Yes.
00:09:10
Speaker
I think the hardest thing and as far as the neglect was because while he still maintained a presence in my brother's lives It was like I'm on one side there on the other so that made that neglect that more felt I guess I felt it more because we were in the same town But he just pulled away
00:09:33
Speaker
Well, and it feels, and I don't know that this is the case, but part of what kind of lays in the story and in the essay is like this, what happened? You know, just what, how, and it seeps in every sentence. It feels like it's there. And the fact that he turned towards your brothers but turned away from you.
00:10:03
Speaker
It's just so painful and confusing. It is because I honestly don't I don't even understand it myself to this day. I do
The Power of Boundaries in Family Relationships
00:10:13
Speaker
not understand. I mean he remarried but I don't understand what
00:10:19
Speaker
happen and even when we've you know you've had those moments where you meet up and you have conversations before it still felt kind of normal but nothing was ever acknowledged but now that more time has passed it's even feels so awkward just to be around him or to talk on the phone it's it's hard to even share anything
00:10:44
Speaker
Because he doesn't know what's going on in my life. Because he ghosted literally, right? Like he became a ghost and he just ghosted you. It makes me think about there's a book that I really like called Fierce Conversations and in it the author talks about that the relationship is the conversation.
00:11:10
Speaker
I love that. And so, yeah, but this makes me think of it, right? Because as the conversation shrinks and becomes more stilted with less depth, so goes the relationship. Yes. And that feels like, you know, what you've described and your word, like it's been exhausting.
00:11:37
Speaker
for you to keep trying, right? And you said one-sided. And I think even as you were putting the words like, is reconciliation possible? And can I extend the olive branch? And can I try again? And part of what I found myself feeling was like, oh, Tina, that's going to be you walking across the bridge again and again and again.
00:12:05
Speaker
I think that's, I mean, I believe in reconciliation, but I'm also a true believer of setting boundaries, even with family. And so when I was writing the essay, and I'm the one who's always trying and trying, he doesn't really reciprocate that.
00:12:25
Speaker
But I know I'll probably end up trying again. I just don't do it as often anymore. I mean, maybe once, twice a year I might try, but it's exhausting and it's getting to a point where it feels like it's even worth
Tracy's Marriage Story: Communication & Retry
00:12:41
Speaker
the effort. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. If I have to set that boundary where no. My son didn't even recognize it when he came to the house.
00:12:52
Speaker
That's so sad. I mean, and your boundary, the boundary feels to me, it feels like it's built from a place of honor. And when I think about the word honor, I think about like in the Old Testament, when it talks about honor, the word that's used has this idea of like weighing something in a scale.
00:13:16
Speaker
And so it makes me think to honor something is to let it weigh what it weighs. And it feels like that's part of what you're doing with your dad. You're letting it weigh what it weighs. You can't engage enough to make up for his lack of engagement. It took me a long time to get to that point, to realize that.
00:13:37
Speaker
Well, and I think, you know, what I love and what feels so amazing and sort of miraculous to me is that after all this time, despite all of his lack of engagement, like your heart is still turned towards him. Yeah. And then, you know, it always will be, but I feel good. I mean, it even felt good writing the essay.
00:14:03
Speaker
It felt good thinking about it, writing it. I still believe that I've done the right thing. I'm doing the right thing. I'm heading in the right direction. Still loving on him. Still trying. Not as frequently, but... But you haven't given up. No, and I probably never will.
00:14:22
Speaker
I, I believe that as I love that about you. I mean, I, I would like a better relationship between him and me and him and my boys, but there's just, just take it. He has to, he has to want something there too. You know, and that's the hard thing, right? Cause you can't, can't control that. You can't make him want that.
00:14:44
Speaker
No, but I don't think he knows how to try either, how to do it. I think there's a part of him that struggles with the awkwardness also and the length of time that he's like, whoa. I don't know. He could learn from his daughter. Yes, he could. Thanks for sharing that. Well, thank you for listening.
00:15:11
Speaker
So mine is, it's interesting. I'll just read mine. It's not quite as long and it's, it's got a little different, little different twist on it. So here we go. Mark and I sat knee to knee over my right shoulder, sat my coach and across from me behind Mark's shoulder, sat her husband. He was coaching Mark.
00:15:35
Speaker
We'd come for a marriage weekend that was happening in February in Michigan, and it was bitterly cold outside. Snow was falling steadily as we sat in that room working on our relationship.
00:15:49
Speaker
I was the sender for this exercise and my job was to pick a story that felt like a place where we were stuck. I was to tell the scene from my perspective, giving it all the emotion that I felt about it. And Mark's job was to be the receiver, hearing me and offering validation about what I was sharing. He didn't share my perspective on this story and he couldn't find any words of validation because he didn't agree with me and he had said as much already.
00:16:18
Speaker
And so there we sat, stuck in our familiar pattern with the three other couples in the small group watching us struggle. It was so uncomfortable. I felt Mary Jane's hand on my shoulder, letting me know that she was there. I was finding it difficult to keep my eyes on Mark's face, waiting for him to say something that would communicate that he understood me and cared about how I was feeling.
00:16:43
Speaker
The voice in my head was getting louder. You shouldn't have brought this up. You know better. This is not going to end well. This was stupid. John leaned in closer to Mark. Mark, that response wasn't helpful. You're better than that. Why don't you recommit and go again?
Learning from Relationship Failures
00:17:02
Speaker
Mark looked at me. He could see the tears in my eyes and he said, I don't know how to do this, but I want to try. Can I recommit and go again? That was over 20 years ago. And that phrase, can I recommit and go again, became lifesaving in our marriage and in our relationship with our kids.
00:17:24
Speaker
What feels so helpful for me is that it has given me, given us permission to be human, to say something and recognize that it wasn't helpful or wasn't what I actually wanted to say. And without having to rehash the unfortunate things said, I can just ask to try again. It's taken some of the energy out of encounters that could have easily escalated or ended up with people just shutting down and walking away. And instead we get to try again.
00:17:53
Speaker
I love that. I absolutely love the, it's like a redo, a reset. Those words, two phrases that stuck out to me in here was, and I absolutely love you and Mark, I think you guys have a great relationship, was stuck in a familiar pattern because I think as couples, we've all been there and we'll be there more than once throughout our marriages or relationships.
00:18:23
Speaker
waiting to hear if he understood you. He said waiting to hear if he understood me. I think that's always a big, or can be a big barrier in conversations as being heard or are they just listening or are they just hearing me? And the redo, ask to try again. Learning how to do that. And I think not just learning, but having that ability and willingness and strength
00:18:53
Speaker
to just say, hey, I need to redo this. I need to reset. Because if you're acknowledging you did something wrong or you didn't do some, and a lot of people can't do that. Oh, and I think it did feel like somebody had given us this tool for our tool belt that we didn't have.
00:19:16
Speaker
we would often get stuck, you know, even in trying to like find our way back to each other. If something unfortunate had been said, it was like, well, I didn't say that. Well, but you did. You said this and that, you know, and you get your, and you're like, you're back.
00:19:35
Speaker
in all of that sort of escalated unhealthy energy. And this was just like it sucked all that unhealthy energy out of the room and just made space for some room to breathe. And in the beginning, like after we came back from that marriage conference, I can remember the first few times that one of us or the other one said it, you know, and it was sort of like awkward.
00:20:04
Speaker
I think we still felt kind of energized inside, but as time went by, now it's almost playful, right? The way that we're able to say it. And yeah, I mean, it's made a huge difference. And when we were actually talking about some of the topics for the podcast for this season, Katie was the one that brought this one up.
00:20:28
Speaker
She's like yeah, she said I think that would be a good one I mean like everybody in our family knows what that means We've all heard you say it, you know And so I think I like that too that my kids have that they have that as a tool for themselves now too But just that idea that it's like can I just can I try again? Yeah, we do that. We reset over here. I
00:20:52
Speaker
There was a point in your story where it sounded like you were doubting yourself because you said something about, I don't know if you were, not regret but doubting, I shouldn't have shared that story.
00:21:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think the longer the story, but then just because it was getting harder, it sounded like you're like, oh man, maybe I shouldn't have shared that. I mean, I chose it because it sort of fit the assignment.
00:21:22
Speaker
And I think I chose it because I wanted to believe that maybe what they said was possible was possible. Like we can do this exercise and this is going to help you get out of sort of a stuck place.
00:21:39
Speaker
But as the very dynamic that happened to us at home, as it was happening right there, and it wasn't any better, I was like, I shouldn't have done this. This was dumb. What was I thinking?
00:21:53
Speaker
We're not going to get out of this. This was stupid. It was that silence as we sat there and Mark was stuck. He was sitting there basically looking at the floor like I don't know what to do.
00:22:09
Speaker
That's the little part I love. I love that he said, I don't know how to do this. That is so hard for so many people to say. And to hear that he came out and said that, I think that was also probably a pivotal moment and a turning point in that.
00:22:31
Speaker
Well, it was, and I think it was such a turning point for me because just for like the acknowledgement of like, I don't know how to do this, but I want to try. Like, can I try again? Told me that even if he didn't have the exact words to tell me that he cared about what I had said or that, you know, he could see whatever it was from my perspective, it was movement.
00:22:56
Speaker
It was a movement towards me that said, I may not agree with your perspective and I may not know how to respond to you, but I care and I'm willing to try again. I think that just dissipated all of my anxious, nervous, shame-filled
00:23:18
Speaker
thoughts and energy that was just like, maybe we're not going to get out of this. And that really was that. It was like, that's all it took to open the door. Because I think I softened a little bit. I wasn't quite so hard sitting there waiting for him to have whatever the perfect words were. I softened up a little bit and it let us begin to be able to talk about it. I love that.
00:23:47
Speaker
The magic words we get to try again. So as we finish, Tina, what, let's talk about kind of what are we going to take into next week from our time? And I know one of the things that I'm going to take is
00:24:03
Speaker
what you were talking about towards the end, both having boundaries and still trying. That felt really inspiring and was just a good reminder for me that it doesn't have to be either or. It can be both and. I have some boundaries
00:24:27
Speaker
in a relationship that feels like it's been hard and difficult and I can still try again with an olive branch or a reaching out. So that's one of the things I'm going to take into this next week. How about you?
00:24:42
Speaker
I think for me, the I don't know how to do this and resetting and trying again is what I'm going to take. And maybe I'll even use that when I send a Nolan branch with my dad, honestly, to maybe say how, you know, we don't, maybe neither of us knows how to do this, but let's get out of this feeling of being stuck, like you mentioned in yours and see what we can do to move forward.
00:25:11
Speaker
And just i'm gonna take that back with my family too the whole I don't know how to do this Can we can we try again? I just love that and not and I plan on using that in my own house in my marriage relationships And because it's important to to just acknowledge that Taking accountability is a big deal in my house and that phrase is um, I really like that phrase a lot
00:25:41
Speaker
Good.
Emotional Layers & Reflections
00:25:42
Speaker
It's been sweet to spend the last half hour with you. Thanks so much. I always love chatting with you, Tracy. I love it. Chatting with you too, friend. That was so good. Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, Tina, for that conversation.
00:26:05
Speaker
As I'm processing that, I am holding and noticing the layers of grief, exhaustion, and sadness, primarily, that I feel initially, particularly after listening to Tina. There's layers there. She talks about her own relationship and neglect and the strain with her dad.
00:26:34
Speaker
And then she talks about her kids, her boys' relationship with their grandpa and them noticing the tension and the struggle and the loneliness that they see in their grandpa's eyes.
00:26:50
Speaker
She names the fleeting moments that she has experienced with her dad that offer her a glimmer of hope. Like when her dad would occasionally do school pickup and take her son to ice cream, but that he just never remembered. I feel grief and I feel sad.
00:27:10
Speaker
at the back and forth that she expressed. She named the olive branches. There was a line where she said, can I extend an olive branch? Just the reality that is, the effort that is required when it's often met with nothing on the other end.
00:27:35
Speaker
I feel a layer of grief and exhaustion for the questions and the tension that she has to live, that she named at the end, like wondering if her dad actually was doing the best that he could. Uffda. That is a heavy question to hold and to live. And then in their conversation,
00:28:04
Speaker
Tina said, like, is this even worth the effort? This question that she was asking about always wondering if trying again, extending an olive branch is worth the effort. I'm curious for you as you listen, where and what relationships are you maybe asking that same question? Is this even worth the effort?
Balancing Emotions in Family Ties
00:28:34
Speaker
As I ask you to consider that question, I also want to name the pause that was in the middle of Tina's story. I'm noticing and holding and feel that that moment might be all you have to offer as you wonder these questions for yourself.
00:28:55
Speaker
There was a gentleness that Tina gave herself as she paused. You could hear her take a deep breath in and out as she got ready to read again. What I felt was the physical manifestation of all that her story carried. So I just want to name that and maybe you could hold that for yourself too.
00:29:17
Speaker
What might this story be bringing up for you? Could you offer yourself the same boundaries and tenderness that Tina and Tracy talked about?
00:29:32
Speaker
And then in Tracy's story, I love how we were popped right in into a moment. I'm thankful for the realness of that moment in my own life as a pastor and with a husband who's a therapist to be dropped right in on a real moment between
00:29:51
Speaker
a writer, a therapist, and a pastor that helped me to remember that this is sacred work, no matter how far along you are in your own journey. Where do you need permission to say those things that Tina and Tracy named? Where do you need to say, I don't know how to do this, and can I recommit and go again?
00:30:22
Speaker
Those felt like true questions that we can all be asking and using. This conversation felt freeing to me. It gave me language for some of my own bonds and relationships with family and friends. I feel like I have tools going into the future. So thank you again, Tracy and Tina, for setting a raw and honest and beautiful table for us.
00:30:50
Speaker
and thank you for listening.
Podcast Credits & Closing Remarks
00:30:52
Speaker
Until next time, be well.
00:30:56
Speaker
The Red Tent Living podcast is produced by Katie Stafford and edited by Aaron Stafford. Our cover art is designed by Libby Johnson and our guests are all part of the Red Tent Living community. You can find us all at redtentliving.com as well as on Facebook and Instagram. If you love the stories shared here, we would be thrilled if you left us a review. Until next week, love to you, dear ones.