Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S3.E1 - Publishing Trend Predictions for 2024
144 Plays8 months ago
We're back and we're kicking off the year with some predictions for what we think is going to be popular in the world of writing, books and publishing for 2024! Shoutout to our friends over at the WriteMentor Hub for all their helpful suggestions!
- Naomi Gibson, author of Every Line of You, Game Over Girl
- Melissa Welliver, author of The Undying Tower, My Love Life and the Apocalypse
- Jamie Greenwood, creator & host of the Write and Wrong Podcast
Recommended
Transcript
2024 Trends and Predictions
00:00:00
Speaker
Do you reckon Christian Grey is different characters? Whoa! You had it here first. After every episode was like, oh my gosh, I'm so angry at these toxic characters, like she'll have more food in my mouth, press next episode, because I loved it, but obviously I hate it. This is so much fun though, because this is my Malfoy Hermione family. She shouldn't have done that. I'm trying to make Neville happen. It's too wholesome.
00:00:35
Speaker
Okay, but we're back. We're back. It's
Emerging Genres: Crossover and New Adult, Disability Representation
00:00:38
Speaker
the chosen ones and other tropes and it's 2024 and we haven't done an episode for a long time. We thought it would be fun to start 2024 with
00:00:49
Speaker
predictions of what we think is going to be popular in publishing, trending the cool genres, the thing that all of the agents and editors are after, and also what the readers are after because that's, in the end, what it's all for. That's what it's all about.
00:01:07
Speaker
we went to Melissa's good friends at the Right Mental Hub and we asked the question, what do you guys think is going to be popular and what are the trends going to be in 2024? So we got some great responses from the Hubsters over there. I guess we'll just jump right into it. Shall I start reading them out? Yeah, do it. Yes, go for it.
00:01:31
Speaker
So, and I've transcribed this, so sorry if I get anyone's name wrong. If Melissa doesn't correct me, then it's her fault. Katina said, I'm going to say crossover slash new adult, and she would like some positive, more positive representation of disabilities.
00:01:54
Speaker
I
Romanticy and High Fantasy: Trends and Challenges
00:01:55
Speaker
think that's, I mean, the second part I don't think is necessarily a prediction, more of a manifestation. We just like more disability representation. That's great. I think CrossFit Renew Adult is, yeah, it's something that's been on the rise for like the last couple of years and is now kind of reaching its high point, I think. What do you guys think?
00:02:20
Speaker
I'm waiting for you to talk more. Do you want me to go first? Do you want me to go first? I think you should. We had my agent also on the Hub the other day and she was chatting to us a little bit about what she sees as trans, Lucy Irvine, and she was saying that in terms of the sort of
00:02:38
Speaker
crossover stuff is still very much rooted in romancy. You can't really say crossover without romancy. Like it feels like it has to be the same thing. It seems like very intertwined at the minute. She was saying she thinks it might be about to be a bit saturated, but also as long as it's got a fresh twist on it. So I think a lot of the romance you were seeing is high fantasy crossover.
00:03:02
Speaker
And she was talking about if maybe there was a twist like horror or something like that to make it a little bit different because I guess a lot of them feel very samey. A lot of the ones I see on TikTok, the covers look really similar. I could be completely wrong. I have not read a lot of the ones on TikTok, but the covers look really similar. And when I read the bios, I forget which is which when I'm then like looking into them later. So I do feel like they're quite samey. And I think when that starts to happen, it feels like it's starting to reach its apex, it's starting to get saturated.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's largely in the wake of a court of thorns and roses. Yeah, that's a Sarah J. Mast one, I think. Yeah,
YA Fantasy and Romance: Dark Themes in Young Readers
00:03:42
Speaker
but that felt like the first one which broke into the mainstream, which kind of captured a huge audience, I think. Yeah. And it's that style of high fantasy, big world building with some spice.
00:03:58
Speaker
I have a question about this, right? Because, um, if I, so I don't really ever pick up a romance, a straight romance book in the sense that that's the A plot. So in a, I can't work out if I've actually read romanticy or, or not in that respect, because I've read some very dream master, but I think that is fantasy first with a heavy romance subplot. Is that, is that what it is? Or is it romance first with a bit of fantasy in the background?
00:04:27
Speaker
I'm not qualified to answer that. This is why I'm trying to work out what it actually is. I think it's still the B plot. I think romance is still the B plot because there are certain tropes, seeing as we're here on the Tropes podcast, there are certain tropes in romance that you have to, and certain plot points you have to hit. For instance, the happily ever after, that is what you have to do in contemporary romance
00:04:50
Speaker
it's happily ever after. And in fact, even with romance with like some fancy elements, it's you have to have your happily ever after as an example, spoiling every single romance book ever. But with romanticy, obviously, it's usually quite tumultuous and they're on like some life saving mission. So I think it's still secondary, but I think it's just by turning up the spice, you are bringing the romance into it more as a major plot. So it's less of a B plot and more of like a major plot. And that spice is probably what makes it crossover as well. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
I think so. It'd be weird. It's dark beans and spice. There's that series, I can't remember what it's called, and the first one is so YA, and the second one is just pure spice. It's so weird, the market step up it takes, and then it's suddenly adult or crossover. So yeah, I think if you're going to have spice, it can't really be YA. No. I think... Yeah, go on, Jamie.
00:05:44
Speaker
Well, I mean, I think that's almost like why crossover slash new adult has become a thing. It's basically we want YA, but with sex scenes. Yeah. Yeah. And it says people that read Twilight when they were 30s, not mentioning any names.
00:06:03
Speaker
I was reading that, it's interesting reading like the Amazon pages and seeing what people say. So like when you read Kidlet on the Amazon page, they will have an age thing and it'll be like,
Graphic Novels, Comics, and the Anime Influence
00:06:17
Speaker
if it's middle grade, it will say like eight to 12. But in YA, you get 12 plus, 14 plus and 16 plus. And I was reading,
00:06:27
Speaker
what's it called? Divine Rivals which is a really really popular one and it's got obviously a romance at the centre of it and it's about sort of World War I so it's kind of historical but it has fantasy elements and time travel elements and stuff like that.
00:06:42
Speaker
and the romance in it does have one spice scene but the spice scene is not as spicy as people use different chili peppers as fourth wing and fourth wing is considered like crossover adult leaning down to YA whereas apparently Divine Rivals according to its Wikipedia page and it's like Amazon page
00:07:02
Speaker
is considered YA, leaning upwards. So like the spy scene in it, I don't even want to say who it's between because I don't want to do spoilers, but the spy scene in it has no mention of any body parts. I'll put it that way. Whereas fourth wing doesn't mind mentioning body parts or breaking furniture. And it's like very intense. Whereas in Divine Rivals, it's about first times and it's like very soft, but it is described. It is described. So it's not YA as I would think of it.
00:07:28
Speaker
Yeah, but like John Green wrote, um, like a sort of soft spice scene, didn't he? Yes, he did. He got in trouble for that, which was weird. Um, well, it's America for you, but he didn't write any, um, he didn't write any specific body parts. And I would say that that's probably bang on for YA if you're going to have it in YA. Right, exactly. Don't get specific about it. So the fourth wing to get specific and then leaning down to YA, I think that's
00:07:58
Speaker
Sometimes, you know, I think marketing are just like, what, we'll sell more, we'll pitch it that way. Yeah, they just feel like that, doesn't it? Because are they that different in, you know, the two fantasy, like Divine Rivals and Fourth Wing are both considered a crossover, but one's slightly older, one's slightly younger, but then also I'm reading them and they're not necessarily aimed at different audiences, I don't think. Yeah.
00:08:18
Speaker
I think there's also a point to be made with just across all age groups, uh, obviously not adult, but like young adult and down, everything is getting a bit darker and a bit more adult, even down to like middle grade. I think middle grade can be quite dark. Yeah. And I think it's more accepted for it to be darker now than it was maybe 10 years ago. Yeah.
00:08:44
Speaker
I would also say going back to, it was a really good point, Naomi, you were talking about with romanticy, you've read some Sarah J Maas and you were trying to figure out what comes first. You feel like it's fantasy first and then romance. I think, and this is based off what you see on like
00:09:00
Speaker
Marketing and like tick-tock and things like that I think there might have been a shift in that where Because so
Comedy in Publishing: Challenges and Opportunities
00:09:07
Speaker
many of these romantic season now advertised based on the tropes and the tropes are all romance tropes They don't advertise the fantasy tropes really Yeah, they're not like hero's journey
00:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's always like only one bird, force proximity, it's all the romance trope. So I think there's been a shift with this kind of, a lot of publishers kind of trying to get onto the romanticy, book top hype.
00:09:37
Speaker
where they are putting the romance first. And I've seen an interview with Rebecca Yaros, who is the author of Fourth Wing. And when she talks about the inception of Fourth Wing, she very much talks about the romance and the relationship between the characters. It seems like the romance and the forced proximity and those tropes are what kind of first happened. And then the fantasy was added into it. That's interesting.
00:10:07
Speaker
So I think that's the direction it's gone. Yeah, which is interesting because there's only two spice scenes in the book.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah.
Thriller and Horror: Influences and Continuations
00:10:15
Speaker
In the first one. So that's interesting, isn't it? But that's like they're marketing it. Yeah. In the first one. Yeah. And in fact, the kiss scene doesn't happen until I was on my Kindle and I believe it was 65%. It's quite a long book. No. Yeah. Lots of yearning, don't get me wrong. Yearning. You've got to build the tension. Build the tension for 470 pages first.
00:10:41
Speaker
But as you were also talking about crossover and what genres go along with that category, I'm thinking dark academia as well will probably be a good one for crossover because again, often that comes with like a romance subplot and that's quite nice to go alongside a dark academia kind of fight. Yeah, that's so true. Saltburn, obviously you've seen it. Yes, I love it. That's very crossovery really. Yeah. Yeah. Is that based on the book?
00:11:11
Speaker
I don't know actually. I didn't think so. I didn't see anything. I feel like I should know that. I think in docket academia and cross avenue adult, it seems like just a really good fit. Yeah, I agree. It's the darkness. It's that age group.
00:11:28
Speaker
But it's still first, isn't it? It's still those first, like first time away from home, first maybe love, first maybe time having sex, whatever it may be. It still feels like there's first, like YA, but it's very much removed from the parental home. Absolutely. And that's a nice way to write them as well, because you get rid of the parents easily. And also the characters can be like 18 plus. Yes. We like fits more into the story, whereas most of the romanticists, they're like 15, 16.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Which is, you know, something in conclusion, uh, crossover and new adult. I think, yeah, it's, it's only getting, um, bigger and bigger, I think. Yeah. But you'd be hard pressed to find a shelf in a bookshop just yet labeled crossover on new adult. Yeah. I imagine all the sales are online. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.
Contemporary Romance: Popularity and Appeal
00:12:25
Speaker
All right, next one. Ellie said she thinks this is, she had much more going on here. She thinks comic books, including cartoon style ones, based of the, based of Jamie Smart's success with Bunny v. Monkey. She also thinks in YA,
00:12:45
Speaker
thriller and horror, which has been huge over the past few years and continues to be. She thinks that that might even feed into younger audiences, kind of like we touched on earlier, like MG and chapter books getting a bit darker, a bit spookier.
00:13:00
Speaker
And she also gave a shout out to comedy and the everlasting charm of, of comedy. So starting off, let's start with comic books and cartoons. I think a hundred percent there's, I think there's been a huge, huge boom. Like younger graphic novels.
00:13:16
Speaker
are popular, I think, especially for boys I follow. Mark Bradley, who does graphic novels on Twitter, and he's always talking about, he does get annoyed by the conversation of, oh, let's just shove a graphic novel into a reluctant reader. I use massive quotes around that's hands.
00:13:37
Speaker
and then they will eventually graduate to proper books and it is really annoying. Obviously it's such a big skillful thing to do and it takes a very long time to create a graphic novel so I totally understand why he's annoyed by that. I do think that they are popular though because they do help
00:13:55
Speaker
bring people into the library. I think the way that they're like marketed, I think like especially towards kids. I don't know if graphic novels will get more popular in the adult space, but I think definitely in the kids space you see them a lot, especially since Alice Oseman, etc. Heartstopper. And Rosie Talbot's writing them. Yeah.
00:14:14
Speaker
I would say in the adult space, we just had the huge success of the Netflix adaptation of what's it called? Neil Gaiman's one. Oh, Sandman. Sandman, Sandman, yeah. Which is a graphic novel from a while ago. I could see maybe that inspiring a lot of people to get into that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's cool.
00:14:39
Speaker
and anime. Anime's never been bigger. You go into like the bookshops I've been into recently, the size of the anime part is often like bigger than like young adult in some workshops now. It is. Yeah, it's true. It is
Crossover Novels: Diversity and Genre Blending
00:14:54
Speaker
true.
00:14:55
Speaker
Sorry, manga. Real faux pas of me there to call it anime. We knew what you meant. Yeah. But yeah, that I think is probably a huge driving force in getting young boys into bookshops.
00:15:11
Speaker
Yeah. And I think when you've got like reading targets and stuff, especially with kidlet stuff, I know that a lot of schools have reading targets and those reading targets are based on either page reads or number of books you've read, which I don't know how dangerous they are. But if you're reading obviously a graphic novel, they are, well, they can be quicker to read in terms of the story. I think often when I've read like the Heartstopper ones, I've got to the end and gone back
00:15:34
Speaker
because I'm used to reading books. I don't read many graphic novels to, obviously, my detriment. And I'm not used to it. So I read all the story and get through it very quickly. And then I go back and look at the illustrations and I see extra parts of the story I missed. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you can do that, but also you can also kind of claim I finished a book. I can put it on my Goodreads pile, which again, it's not a good reason to be reading graphic novels and we should treat them back. However, I can see why they're becoming popular because of these reasons.
00:16:04
Speaker
Yeah. There are so many, going back to the adult space, I'm just thinking now, there's so many adaptations of like Alan Moore's graphic novels with like Watchmen, Watchmen again, because they've got the series now and a bunch of other ones, but yeah, I think it's definitely on the up graphic novels.
00:16:26
Speaker
Before, okay, let's jump ahead to, before we get onto the YA thriller and horror part, let's jump ahead to the shout out to comedy. And I think this was mainly targeted at middle grade. I think it's, comedy is an interesting one because I think comedy will never be out of fashion, but I also don't, I think it's hard for it ever to be like, it's, first of all, it's a very broad thing to be like a trend, but,
00:16:53
Speaker
I think it's so zeitgeisty in a way. It has to be very specific. I think it's very difficult to write comedy that's good and long lasting. And I think if you've written a good comedy that's authentic and original, it's always going to be successful. I don't think it matters if it's on trend or not, especially for kids.
00:17:16
Speaker
I think comedy paired with something is always going to work well. I think it's
Genre Mashups and Marketing Strategies
00:17:23
Speaker
a really nice offset to horror. Grady Hendrix does that really nicely. He's quite funny and it's quite gruesome at the same time. But straight pure comedy, I struggle to pick up and stick with. But if it's like an undercurrent sort of narrative voice,
00:17:45
Speaker
I'm quite happy with it, I think. So yeah, it's a tricky genre. Straight comedy, like the closest you can get to it in like middle grade is it will always be like an adventure at school or like they'll always be like some adventure involved. Yeah.
00:18:01
Speaker
they're not doing stand-up routines. No, that's it. It's always going to be, yeah. It's always something that happens amongst the, it's not really a plot. It's just, you know, it's voice and stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. That's just so true on voice. Alan Hamilton made a TikTok that went sort of semi-viral about
00:18:19
Speaker
Specifically boys moving on from comedy books so there's a lot of comedy in middle grade and boys are reading and then there is like everyone's talking about we need more teenage boys reading and they're not as keen on the books that are being presented to them and she was talking about you know there's not as many books for boys and I think underneath that video she had loads of comments about
00:18:38
Speaker
Well, you know, there's say Alex Ryder and she came back and said, no, what I mean is comedy books for teen boys, whereas there are quite a few comedy teen books for girls about like high school drama, that kind of stuff, like the Holly Smale ones. And yeah, she kept coming back because people said, yeah, well, what about Terry Pratchett? That's really funny. And she was like, yes, but it's not aimed at teenage boys. You know, something that's just aimed at teenage boys. And I think there is a gap for that in terms of trends.
00:19:03
Speaker
a funny teen series because it hasn't been one for a long time for boys, or aimed at boys. I hate saying four boys, obviously books are for everyone. Do you think that's because, I'm going to be saying a lot of broad stroke things here, but do you think that's because a lot of teenage boys don't read, so you're trying to sell something to a demographic that just isn't going to buy it and therefore the books, they might exist as manuscripts but they're never getting printed?
00:19:31
Speaker
Yeah, possibly. I mean, it was interesting because Alan Hamilton also works in Waterstones as a bookseller. So I don't know. She was sort of, I think, arguing for and against. I mean, I'm putting words in her mouth and maybe she can come and tell.
00:19:42
Speaker
But yeah, she was essentially because what was funny was because there were so many responses to this video, she did make a lot of follow up videos trying to clarify what she was saying. And yeah, I'm not sure if the space is there on the shelf. This is the problem with a few things, isn't it? So on the one hand, it feels like a gap. But on the other hand, is there space on the shelf? And is it chicken or the egg? You know, do our boys just reluctant readers or are we not giving them the correct books to choose from?
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think also I've just realized that kind of niche ties back into comic books. We neglected to mention, obviously, Marvel Cinematic Universe and DC stuff is, you know, not great right now, but it's still bigger than ever. It's still like
Adaptations of Graphic Novels and Comics
00:20:23
Speaker
they have this franchise is absolutely worldwide. Those kind of comic books and that kind of, they have like witty characters doing interesting things with supervise. That is,
00:20:35
Speaker
You know, that's a teen boy market right there. Yeah, perhaps that's going to be that might tie into teen boys in Buying comic books in bookshops, which may move into novelizations or something like that Yeah, cuz they do have a lot of like Sarah J. Moss right like a catwoman book didn't she you know, she obviously happens IP does actually exist So yeah, they just need to get one out there with like a male main character. Maybe I don't know
00:21:00
Speaker
like Dick Grey or something, I don't know. So Ellie's final thing was YA thriller and horror. We know a bunch of authors who write this kind of thing, Cynthia Murphy amongst them. Massive in the past few years. It's showing no signs of stopping that genre.
00:21:25
Speaker
murder teenagers at school, often dark academia, but not always. I see that being just as popular this year as it was last year and the year before. And feeding into the younger age groups, I think more than ever in the wake of something like the success of Netflix's Wednesday,
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. I think that is just going to perpetuate and inspire people to. Love horror stuff too. They love it. Kids are creepy and they love being creepy. I mean, Wednesday is for, Wednesday was more graphic than I thought it was going to be at some points. She literally tortures someone at one point. And I imagine kids loved that. Yeah.
00:22:16
Speaker
Exactly. They just want torture scenes. Did I just get cancelled? We do say stuff like that when I'm having a nice time. It's been a while since Season 2. Did one of the main guys not get arrested for something? What? Oh, I think they did have to swap one of the actors. I think there was a scandal and they've swapped one of the actors. Have they recast him? Okay.
00:22:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think immediately we cast. I think it was like one of the most watched things on Netflix when it came out. Yeah. Because they do that top 10 every year, don't they? They do show you. Yeah, it was well up there, wasn't it? I'm sure it was, yeah. I think it broke, it beat Stranger Things' record for like most views in opening records. Yeah, it's really interesting, yeah. Yeah. And it was everywhere online.
00:23:02
Speaker
And there was that Lockwood & Co as well that was really popular and that's middle grade ghosties. Well, teen ghosties really. Again, the teen space, that awkward teen space. And that was books, wasn't it? That's books, yeah. The books are very successful. That show, I believe, has been cancelled.
00:23:17
Speaker
It has been cancelled, but it was one of the top 10 voice watched. What are we doing Netflix? What's happening?
TikTok's Role in Genre Popularity
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Their process for getting rid of stuff blows my mind. I just don't understand it. Sometimes they have a great show and they're like, nah, scrap it.
00:23:33
Speaker
In conclusion, I think we all agree comic books, graphic novels on the up, YA, thriller and horror, and also MG horror, even chapter books like kind of with a softer horror. I think that's all doing really well, continues to do well. All the agents I speak to say that that's something that they they're always looking for horror. Yeah. On the on the up and up. Yeah, that's true. And comedy will always be funny.
00:24:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I think pretty yeah pretty pretty good pretty good picks from earlier next up Natalia romanticy Obviously through she thinks romanticy is going to continue to grow through the perpetuation of book talk, but she does acknowledge that It is getting congested and like we mentioned Sarah J mass and and kind of everyone sort of doing similar things around that area You've got fourth wing and stuff I think
00:24:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's going to be really big, but I think it's more competitive than ever. Yes, I think that's a fair way to put it. Also, the problem when we talk about trends, and we get asked this a lot in the hub when we get industry experts in, so we get editors and agents. The problem we talk about trends is when something
00:24:48
Speaker
does hit its trend it does make that very narrow door into publishing slightly wider if you've already written that thing and that is good and then of course it gets congested and then suddenly people who were quite happily writing that suddenly the door slightly more closed than it was before because you've chased that trend all the way down into the
00:25:07
Speaker
like sort of pit of congestion and so it's not going to be as easy and then you have to come up with a fresh twist on it and at the end of the day you just hope like good books float to the top but any way in that makes it a bit easier so yeah the fact that romanticy is now starting to get congested is interesting because obviously we're either going to have to see fresh twists on it or something else we'll have to get congested so that frees that back up again
00:25:32
Speaker
Do you know, I think Fairyloot and things like Fairyloot and TikTok are responsible for that because Fairyloot obviously is pure fantasy subscription box but they pick books that have like heavy romance subplots which probably is romanticy and then
00:25:51
Speaker
They do these beautiful limited edition things and everybody wants to buy one because that's so true. Nice things to hold. And then you've got TikTok, which has just absolutely exploded the genre.
00:26:03
Speaker
And there are so many of them already out there that probably already exist. But I mean, I'm not sure about it actually getting saturated because romance as a genre is just so popular. Do you know what I mean? And if you're going to be writing a book that's got a heavy romance subplot, people are always going to pick it up.
00:26:25
Speaker
I'm not sure. I think it's just finding that little fresh twist on something. But I think every author can do that. It happens
Revival of Vampires and Horror
00:26:35
Speaker
continually in romance. It's just the same tropes, just different character names. Yeah, that's very true. And Mills and Boone have launched that imprint after Glow recently.
00:26:45
Speaker
And Arthur Collins launched one as well. Yeah, and Mills and Boone obviously always known for romance but I think probably unfairly, I haven't read much Mills and Boone I'll be honest, but probably unfairly they're known for like a certain type of romance, probably a bit cheesy, people think of you know, the bodice ripper, front covers and things like that.
00:27:03
Speaker
But Afterglow is supposed to be pointed at, I think really that, from what I can see, that crossover market. They're very bright covers. They've got more queer titles coming in, which I think they have been under fire about before. Just feels a bit fresher. And they've just launched that, so they obviously don't think it's going anywhere.
00:27:21
Speaker
No, they wouldn't if they didn't. Yeah. I mean, there's no way romance isn't going anywhere. You know, I've worked with the RNA several times. I've had lots of romance authors and agents who kind of specialise in romance on. If romance was going to be saturated, it would have been saturated, you know, five, 10 years ago. There's no shortage of people wearing romance. I think the thing that is going to be saturated is lots of, and it's
00:27:47
Speaker
Like you say, it's kind of a shame for people who were always writing this kind of thing. I think we live in a world of like evolving AI and also people going online and trying to make a quick buck. And I just think there's going to be so many quick turnaround, like romanticy things, which are just sort of very similar to other things. You would hope something like Fairy Loot is actually going to be a really positive force within that because a subscription like that, it's going to be more work for them.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Because they're going to have to find stuff which is actually, you know, a cut above the rest because it's going to be a bit murky sometimes because some books which are getting like, which are blowing up
00:28:31
Speaker
are like not being reviewed well. They're making a lot of sales, but if you look at the reviews, if you go through like the influencers, they're kind of saying, yeah, this isn't great, wouldn't recommend it. But they are selling a lot because of this kind of book talk machine, which is taking over. It's interesting.
00:28:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think the most interesting one to watch in terms of trends will be romanticy to see what happens with it this year, whether it like stays or whether it's a bubble that will burst at some point. Yeah, I can't tell to be honest. I think it's one way or the other, isn't it? Yeah, it's hard to say.
00:29:10
Speaker
I don't know if, it might just get smaller. I don't think it'll ever, like Sarah J. Moss, you know, she's, I can't imagine her writing a crime book. Do you know what I mean? She's always going to be churning out that kind of thing. And she has such a big name and she's got such a big following. They will continue to sell and that will continue to inspire. And I just, I don't know. I'm not sure if that'll really go anywhere, to be honest. Yeah. She has signed an eight and a 12 book deal, right? Yes, I think I saw that. 12 book deals, all right.
00:29:45
Speaker
I'm pretty sure she's old enough to retire if she wants to.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think the only thing that wouldn't necessarily stop it, because also we live in an age of anyone can write anything and you can publish it, you can self-publish it, or you can market it yourself, or you can do something like Wattpad and put it online. The thing that would, I think, slow it down, especially for people who are trying to go the traditional route, is that publishers might stop
00:30:11
Speaker
taking it. They might stop taking, they might say, we have a few romances the authors have already signed to the boat. We've already got that on our list. We don't want another one. It's a competitive market already. We don't want to compete too much with ourselves when we're already competing with everyone else.
Fantasy with Dragons: Rising Interest
00:30:35
Speaker
Natalia also says she thinks vampires are making a comeback, and this is something I've heard. It's the- Yes. Is it the 15th anniversary of Twilight?
00:30:44
Speaker
Yeah, it was in November when I went to see it. Oh yeah, of course. That's so cool. Yeah, that's good. Feel old now. Yeah, so apparently I've heard this from lots of people. I've spoken to lots of agents recently and amongst
00:31:07
Speaker
A lot of people are asking, there's always, at the moment, I'm getting a sort of, we're interested in romanticy, but maybe with a bit of a twist. I think dragons are very popular right now in the kind of wake of fourth wing and vampires and werewolves seems to, I don't know if it's hit the, it's kind of full speed yet, but I think it's, we're definitely building to another trend of vampires and werewolves.
00:31:34
Speaker
Listen, let me tell you, the reason I bought Baldur's Gate 3 was because of the hot vampire in it. There's no other reason. I don't sit and hang out and play D&D on my own for any other reason.
00:31:53
Speaker
I think, I definitely think there's going to be some vampire come back. And I know a few books that are announced actually, like Dawn Kurtridge's book is coming out this year. I was just thinking of Dawn's, yeah. That's going to be awesome. There's definitely a few I've seen. It feels like the most, if I had to put money on one of the trends we're talking about, getting bigger, that's the one, vampires wear wings. Do you think? Yeah. Yeah. I read a really good one about Dracula, about this time last year, it's called A Dowry of Blood. I'd recommend that one. And it's, I think in that adult space as well.
00:32:23
Speaker
you can really make it dark and gory and sexy. I think it's really gonna be good. I think there'll be a lot of interesting interpretations on vampires as well. I think we'll get lots of vampires with a twist. I had an agent on the Right and Wrong podcast recently who we were talking about vampires and werewolves.
00:32:45
Speaker
And, um, she said that she would be really keen for a, a corporate story with vampires. So literal corporate vampires. I think that's great. I'd read the hell out of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, and there's a, there's a new Dracula movie coming out. Um, they've redone it, haven't they? Yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, I'd love for the headlines to be like vampires are super popular because of a star in from Baldur's Gate. That'd be great. That's the reason that it's actually attributed.
00:33:25
Speaker
Yeah, so I think we all agree there seems to be, it hasn't hit yet, but I think it's coming, vampires are coming back. And with vampires, it always comes well. I feel it in my blood. La Salle also thinks horror. We kind of covered this with Ellie mentioned this. Horror, I think, yeah. Horror has never been more popular. I feel like there's more horror. I see when I'm like watching TV or anything, I see more trailers for horror movies than I feel like I ever have in my life. I feel like every other movie is a horror movie.
00:33:54
Speaker
It's doing really well in publishing and writing as well. Anything else to add about horror? Again, romance. I think it's here today. Yes. Yeah. It's always going to be there. It's really well paired with almost anything like horror comedy. It's great. Horror romance. It's great. Horror romance.
Cozy Genres: Mystery and Fantasy
00:34:15
Speaker
I love it. It's definitely getting younger. If anyone follows gothbaby on TikTok,
00:34:20
Speaker
my favorite TikTok goth baby is this baby that's just having a gothic day she's like basically wednesday as a toddler and she's like she has a really creepy room full of skulls and she like eats her like her brother's blood for breakfast and stuff she's brilliant i love goth baby a lot of people don't like it but i think i think they secretly do
00:34:41
Speaker
Okay. Um, maybe I'll have to check it out. Um, and Sally also says contemporary romance for YA and new adult. This is kind of on a similar trend to the romantasy thing, obviously without the fantasy element, but she thinks off the back of, wow, it's two of Melissa's favorite TV shows. The summer I turned pretty in my life with the water boys. I have watched both. Yes. Yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
I mean, the fact that shows like that and like the kissing booth and things like that, these kind of contemporary romances are being made and are getting sequels and are continuing to be made shows Netflix is a data driven company that shows you a lot of people are watching these. And that's true. It's coming off the back of people reading them. And it's just me pressing what would you like to start the series again? Yes.
00:35:38
Speaker
They're very bingeable. I think it's like the opposite of horror in a lot of ways, those types of stories. They are so low stakes, it's unbelievable. There is literally nothing really keeping them apart. You know she's going to end up with one of the boys at both Samaritan Pretty and
00:35:55
Speaker
my life with the Walter boys. You know she's going to end up with one of them. A part of you does root for one over the other. You just can't help yourself. It's like the Hunger Games. I have to root for one. And then you just watch it and you know nothing that bad's going to happen. The pretty girl's still going to get one of these hot boys. So I don't know. It's the low stakes thing. I think that makes it so bingeable. It's just super bingeable. I think low stakes while you're talking about it will be
00:36:22
Speaker
for the popular this year because there was that book, that fantasy book, what was it? Bookshops and... Legends and Lattos. Lattos, yeah. And he's just brought out a set from it. Bookshops and Bones is the new one. That's it. I think that kind of thing is just so wholesome that will continue to be popular as well. Yeah, I think Low Stakes is popular hilariously for the opposite reason of horror being so popular.
00:36:46
Speaker
I feel like everyone's going off streams. There is no in-between anymore. They're just like little comfort reads, aren't they? It's like, you know what will happen, but you're happy to go along on the ride. Yeah, it's just fun. I have read Legend of the Nautilus and it was, I've not read Cozy's, not really something that I've read before, but yeah, it was a real treat, very relaxing just to read something that is, it's not the lowest stakes, but it's,
00:37:14
Speaker
I mean, it's rarely life or death, you know? Yeah. But like, yeah, it is just a nice read. It's very well done. 100%. And cozy crime is going to be really big as well, I think. Yeah, for sure. That's a genre that I keep hearing people talking about, you know, off the back of the Thursday Murder Club and then like TV shows like, what's the one with Selena Gomez? Only Murders in the Building?
00:37:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah. For that genre though, I would really love to see a diverse range of covers because they all look like Richard Osman's book. And it's like,
Wattpad Adaptations: Skipping Traditional Publishing
00:37:54
Speaker
we get it. Okay. It's cozy, but let that be its own genre. Like you don't see all horror books looking the same. You don't see all romance books looking the same. You know, just we get it. It's established. Just branch out and do your thing now.
00:38:07
Speaker
There you go. If there's any publishing houses listening. I wouldn't mind it, but it's the fact that it's quite easy to accidentally pick something up and thinking it's like a sequel or like by the same author as someone else. I think that's why they do it. That's 100% why they do it.
00:38:26
Speaker
feels deceptive. We went off track really quickly talking about Summer I Turn Pretty and My Life With The Water Boys. Interesting observation that Nasalia made. Those are both, I believe, Wattpad options. Oh, okay. That's interesting. Summer I Turn Pretty is Jenny Han, right? If that's incorrect, then blame her. Yeah, I think it's Jenny Han, Summer I Turn Pretty.
00:38:51
Speaker
My Life with the Walter Boys was a book, but I don't know if it originally was on Wattpad. But Jenny Hands, I assume, was just one of her ones before or after to all the boys.
00:39:02
Speaker
Yeah. I think there might be a big, and this is less a trend in writing and publishing than it is in mainstream media, but I think a lot more Wattpad stories are going to get optioned and become film and television than have kind of ever previously been. I think they're going to skip out the middleman because the old
00:39:28
Speaker
the, I say the old path as if Wattpad is like such an old thing. But previously I think the path from Wattpad would have been Wattpad to get an agent to get, then you get a deal. And then they take your book off Wattpad and then re-release it as a full book, all trad style. And then that would get optioned into being a movie. It's interesting.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah, there are some like, I think, what was it called? Was it Beautiful Disaster? I think that was Wattpad. Oh, was it? Yeah, it has Dylan Sprouse and Virginia Gardner in it. Watch that, obviously. Yeah, that's also fairly low stakes, although they kind of add some gangster elements to it. Oh, it's so high stakes, but it's not really very high stakes. And it's got the sequel coming out, did very well.
00:40:15
Speaker
And I believe that was Wattpad. So yeah, there are a few. And sometimes you see the Wattpad symbol at the beginning of the film as well. Yeah, I've seen that recently. Yeah, on After, I think. I think Netflix are going direct to Wattpad sometimes now. I could be wrong on that. But either way, film studios are going direct to Wattpad and just cutting out the middleman.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah.
Reality TV-Inspired Books: A New Trend?
00:40:39
Speaker
Which I don't really have a problem with, to be honest. Those authors like eat, eat, you eat, do it. Get the bag. Awesome. So to conclude on Nisalia's stuff, romanticy, one to watch, I think 100% one to watch. I think it's really having a moment. It's been having a moment for a while now. And whether that continues, whether that gets bigger or whether that kind of bursts, we'll have to wait and see.
00:41:09
Speaker
Yeah. Dragons, I think yes, are in. Vampires, unanimously. Yes, we think vampires. We think we're about to have superheroes are out, get vampires back in here. Horror, yes. And contemporary romance. Yeah, I don't see contemporary romance going anywhere. No. Cool. Next, Ian.
00:41:32
Speaker
Ian thinks crime, detective and murder will be popular building on the success of The Traitors. I've not watched The Traitors. I've seen it advertised and I've listened to my friends talking about it.
00:41:49
Speaker
I'm actually really sad right now. Give us the pitch. What is the traitors? Okay. Have you ever played a game called among us? It's basically on television. So some people are traitors. You don't know who they are. They have a round table every evening after doing tasks during the day for money. And then the evening and they try and get rid of the traitors. If they can't get rid of them by the end, the traitors will win. That's essentially what happens. It's among us. Okay. Yeah. It's among us without murder.
00:42:17
Speaker
although they say they've been quote-unquote murdered and it's very dramatic because it's Claudia Winkleman who is like the drama queen so yeah yeah it's amazing so it's so good yeah he's right Traitors is so popular and like they let you binge the first three to get you into it and then they only show it Wednesday Thursday Friday it's four weeks in a row
00:42:35
Speaker
And I think those sorts of things as well, like where there's a set game and you know how many people there are and you've been told the rules. The rules are someone goes every night, someone's killed by the traitors every evening, you've got to get shields to win. And once you get the rules, I think there is something about watching a game like that and you start to work out in your head. People's favorite thing in the traitors is what would I do if I was a traitor? And that's what gets people talking like, you know, that water cooler at work type conversation. That's what everyone's talking about. Is it is it a bit like squid game?
00:43:06
Speaker
Uh, no, cause it's not like you, you don't die, die. You don't obviously die at all. Obviously. Um, you don't die in game as such. You could only be kicked off by being banished or by being murdered by a traitor. So it's exactly like among us. Yeah. And that games are just to win money. So they have 120 grand they can win over the whole time and people are getting knocked out all the time.
00:43:29
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Well, it's obviously a big show. Yeah. I don't know if necessarily crime and detective novels need the help in my experience. I knew what you were going to say here.
00:43:45
Speaker
A lot of the self-publishing authors I know are in crime and detective and they are killing it. They are selling multiple books a year and they are making a lot of sales. It's one of those genres where the appetite is just seems endless and people want to just have more and more and more of it. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I have a particular family member who continually tells me I should write crime because it worked for Ian Rankin.
00:44:13
Speaker
every time I see them. We're both really Scottish for a start and male. Anyway, yeah, I think crime is always going to be massive.
00:44:33
Speaker
Yeah, crime and romance are two of the kind of longest running, just like strongest, biggest appetite genres to stand alone on. But I do love crime detective crossover stuff. That could be fun. From the sounds of it, traitors might actually inspire more thriller stuff.
00:44:59
Speaker
More like, here's a group of characters, who's the traitor among us stuff. Yeah.
00:45:05
Speaker
which could be really cool. I mean, yeah. It feels like Hunger Games level, like Squid Game. I see what Naomi was saying about Squid Game, because that's like Hunger Games, like Battle Royale. Yeah. I think that kind of stuff could be coming. And also obviously the Hunger Games last year had like a prequel film come out. I feel like it's coming back, that kind of. And there's a few reality TV things I've seen like advertised and stuff coming, books, I mean. Ben, Ben
Crime and Detective Novels: Reality TV Influence
00:45:29
Speaker
Loops knew Ben Loops. Ben Loops.
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah, Ben Oliver's new book, that's being marketed as a squid game kind of vibe, isn't it?
00:45:50
Speaker
Yes, it is. Yeah, yeah. I've seen a few and I think B Fitzgerald's new one for adults is a thriller. I can't remember what it's called now, unfortunately, but yeah, that's set on an island and it's a reality TV show. So I think they are, I think this is coming back, this reality TV show thing, because I think people are quite into stuff like the trailers.
00:46:12
Speaker
I wonder if the only reason that it hasn't been as popular, because I felt like it was on the rise. I think maybe the only reason it hasn't been as popular was maybe because of all the lockdowns and everyone was trapped inside and the idea of reality TV shows was not appealing. We all wanted to escape as a fantasy. Yeah, that's true. Interesting. So maybe it was inevitable.
00:46:34
Speaker
I remember speaking to agents a couple of years ago and then them saying things, comparison titles are very appealing for agents to read when you're doing a cover letter. And they love things which are kind of like immediately recognisable and cross-over-y. And I remember hearing a lot of like good comparisons. It'd be like something and Love Island or like, you know, something and Squid Games. And these kinds of Squid Games obviously used to be fiction now is actually a thing.
00:47:04
Speaker
Love Island seemed like a really hot comparison. I saw a lot of people pitching in their cover letters, but also books being advertised as like, Love Island meets this. Yeah, 100%. Love Island got so popular at one point. Yeah. Because that is kind of escapism. Love Island, I think even in lockdown, because they're all on holiday.
00:47:22
Speaker
They're all dead good looking. They're all just having romances and they're all a bit daft. So it was like proper escapism. Ooh, look how lovely. Look at that view of Table Mountain they have in the South African villa. And then they're like, oh, do you know what country we're in? And you're like, oh, no. But it's great. Yeah. So I totally see why that I think fit into the escapism as well as being a TV reality TV show. So that was still popular.
00:47:47
Speaker
To conclude, Ian, yes, completely agree crime detective murder will be as popular, I think, as it's ever been. But the traitors, yeah, for me, I think it might lean more into thriller stuff. I think if people are loving the traitors, then they're going to be like, I want to write a story with multiple characters, like murder, more murder mystery, I guess. Yeah. Who done it kind of stuff. Yeah, I love that.
00:48:14
Speaker
Uh, maybe like a, maybe we're heading towards like a sort of dark who done it genre. Yeah. Cause you've done it's always a bit silly, but it's fun. Yeah, exactly. That's why knives out was just like ridiculous. I love knives out. Yeah, it's great. Um, it's almost like cozy, who done it knives out. Cause because it was so silly, I felt like the stakes were not high. Yeah. Yeah. It had this really comedic element to it, didn't it?
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah,
Sports-Based Romances: Blending Genres
00:48:44
Speaker
well, she threw up every time she lied. Awesome. Next up, Anna. Anna, very quick one, jumping in to say that she thinks YA vampires are coming back.
00:48:59
Speaker
We agree. 100% on board. Tick. Yes, it's happening. If it doesn't happen, we'll make it happen. And finally, from the right mental hubsters, we have Alex who said that Megan Carroll did a Q&A, I think at the end of last year.
00:49:18
Speaker
And she mentioned that sports rom-coms were something she was looking for. I have heard that from another agent recently as well. I think sports based romance is a very, I think there's already a big audience for it, but I think it's kind of overlooked and I think it's growing. I think it's a really good combination. Do you think that's because of the Olympics? Maybe. Is it to do with that or?
00:49:47
Speaker
I think it might just be a really good pairing of genres because the kind of rags to riches like hero's journey, sports story is very uplifting and kind of reaches natural climax and you can kind of just run it in parallel with a romance. And I think it's very tight. It kind of ties very neatly in together.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that, um, was it Hannah Grace who did Icebreaker? And that did really well. And then Hockey Romance became a big thing and there were lots of similar covers and there was, yeah, it went, I mean, it went a bit far apparently. There were some stalking, some light stalking, which we will not talk about here.
00:50:29
Speaker
But apart from that, when people were calm and just reading the books like normal people and not stalking the players. Um, yeah, I think there's a lot of, um, I think they can relate it to the real world. So what they liked in the ice hockey ones was they would like imagine that it was their favorite hockey player was like the main guy. And then I think off the back of that ice hockey romance, weirdly became saturated. So they decided let's look for other. Like, so I think a lot of people were saying, cause Taylor Swift is dating, um, it's going to my head. Uh, Travis Kelsey.
00:50:57
Speaker
Thank you, Travis Kelsey. I think she put them on the map. Well, yeah. And a lot of people are like, I want to read that romance. I want to read that sports romance of a pop star dating a football player. So I think, yeah, I think that's, that's such a boring romance because that is, I'm sorry to break everyone's, but you're talking about the biggest pop star in the world and one of the most successful currently playing NFL players.
00:51:22
Speaker
Yeah. Will their romance last, Jamie? The stakes won't blow up. They were already successful. Zero stakes. Give me my cozy romance. Maybe they can hack it all in and open a bookshop. You know, we just don't know. Oh my God, the stakes couldn't be higher now. Yeah, that's great. Now we're really cozy. They just pull the plug and everything.
00:51:47
Speaker
move to Oklahoma or somewhere. But I think you're right because if you know you talk about the hockey romance being like going crazy that's like one sport which is also popular in like very specific countries. Yes. You know you've obviously you've got football which is a more kind of globally popular sport and then you can go to any kind of minutia of whatever sports you want we can go down to like
00:52:13
Speaker
squash, rugby, badminton, you know, there's so many different, you could essentially do a very similar thing and just take it into different worlds. Yeah. And by worlds, I mean sports. Yeah. And you have a preset audience that way. Like if you're a fan of a particular sport, as I say, they just sort of mesh it together in their heads. So it seems to be very popular.
00:52:35
Speaker
Tennis seems like an obvious one. I remember ages ago the movie Wimbledon with Paul Bethany. Yeah. That was sports romance. Yeah, it was pretty much. This one with Zendaya, is there not? Zendaya and his two tennis playing brothers. Oh, I think I saw the trailer for that. Yeah. That's new, isn't it? Yeah, new-ish. It might not even come out yet. I don't know if it's even out.
00:53:01
Speaker
I've definitely seen the trailer for it. Yeah, I think it's called challenges. It's Josh O'Connor and Mike faced. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that seems to be a love triangle in tennis. Nice. Let's see if they can, let's see if they can land the love triangle. Yeah. It's a difficult one. Can they get out of it without one of them being a villain? Yes, exactly. Is there an actual choice or is there just no choice?
00:53:30
Speaker
In conclusion, Alex, yeah, I think you've hit the spot there. I think YA, not necessarily YA, I think across all age groups, I think sports, rom-com is, I think it is popular in a kind of low key way now. I think it might become more popular over the year. I think it could be quite a big trend because people like sports and romance.
Future Predictions and Publishing Trends
00:53:56
Speaker
I love those inspirational sports movies and stories. Yeah, I actually really enjoy them and I hate sports in real life. It's my escape. Yeah, there's a sort of coziness to them. Yes, they won the game. Mistakes could not be higher.
00:54:16
Speaker
Awesome. Huge thanks to all the right mental hubsters. Lots of cool, interesting suggestions. I think for the most part, you guys absolutely nailed it. Hit the nail on the head. I would agree with most of the stuff here. Talking about trends, you guys specifically, are there any things that we haven't covered already that you think are going to be big this year, no matter if it's a genre or an age group or a specific thing?
00:54:44
Speaker
I think given the rise of vampires, cross-over-y type dark academia stuff, I think gothic
00:54:55
Speaker
settings and things like that are going to have a bit of a moment, which would be great for me. Crossing my fingers for that one. I will manifest that trick. Yeah, you say it, you'll have it. Yeah, I totally agree. I think with Wednesday kind of paving the way for that and to a mainstream audience and then everything just being dark. I think everything's getting dark at the moment and people love Gothic stuff.
00:55:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think people do love dark stuff. Yeah. How about you, Melva? I don't know if there's anything, the problem with trends is if I could guess what they were, that would be really good, wouldn't it?
00:55:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So like I'm writing at the minute out of contract. But instead of, I suppose, trend chasing, I'm more just like, trend looked back. I just went through everything I was really, really interested in in 2023 and mushed them all together. So I would say maybe genre mashups.
00:55:55
Speaker
might be a trend that we see a bit more. I think previously, especially when I was like querying and submitting and stuff a few years ago, people were really anti genre mashup. Like they were like, no, no, it has to, for instance, even with age with the crossover thing, people were like, no, no, it has to fit into this category or this category.
00:56:12
Speaker
or you know if it's a genre it's like no no it can't be romance and sports like sports is the book thing that boys do and romances for girls it's like no this is stupid like let's just put these things together um so i think maybe genres being mashed together
00:56:28
Speaker
Might be. I think that's a great shout. Yeah. I like that. Because we're kind of there already, right? I mean, that's what romanticism is. Yeah. Which is a good thing, I think, because it's nice to have a bit of everything. Like we were saying, if you read a pure comedy book, it might be like, especially if it's a long, how we say this with movies, like both horror and comedy are never that long a movie. It's like 19 minutes because you'd be exhausted laughing or screaming that much.
00:56:54
Speaker
I think when you mash things together, it's a bit more of like a center, like a nice peaceful area to explore the story. Yeah, I think that's true. And I would say as an example here, fantasy, I think right now is, if you're writing a sort of traditional fantasy, I think that's quite hard to sell right now to an agent and then to an editor, to a publisher.
00:57:18
Speaker
because I think publishers are, you know, they're going to be watching the trends much more than we are, but they're going to say, okay, well, romanticy is the big thing to do with fantasy and your traditional fantasy, you know, it's probably too slow. It's probably not hitting the marketing trends that we are looking to like push right now. So combining that with another genre, I think is smart. And I was going to say,
00:57:45
Speaker
something that we touched on earlier but no one really brought up was was Cozy and Cozy fantasy is like it kind of had a big moment after Legends and Lattes and continues to and Cozy crime I think it was having been I think sort of applying Cozy to most genres is a very popular thing right now. Cozy horror is another one that I've heard is very popular right now so
00:58:14
Speaker
Romance is already cosy, so don't try doing that. It's a mega cosy romance. Yes, too cosy.
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah, romance, if you can apply romance to other genres the way fantasy has adopted it, like sci-fi. Yeah, romance, sci-fi. I'm always trained to mesh this together. It feels like it's right there. It's so close, but I think you pull people from different audiences that way as well, right? So that's surely why that's going to be a trend because if you're really into sci-fi,
00:58:48
Speaker
but have always thought you hated romance and then read a mashup that might pull you over into the romance stories. Yeah, that's so true. And vice versa. Yeah, exactly. I wonder how many sort of fans of romance have been kind of got into the romanticy stuff and then ended up being actually fans of fantasy as well.
00:59:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really common. I reckon. Yeah. Well, I'm trying to think if there's anything else that any other genres that I had off the top of my head. I'll probably remember them as soon as we stop recording. I think that was the main one. I think cozy stuff, vampires, dragons. Dragons, I believe, are very popular. I've spoken to some agents who have said they're looking for stuff specifically with dragons in it. Interesting. Interesting. Is that because of fourth wing?
00:59:38
Speaker
I think because of Fourth Wing and then maybe also House of the Dragon. People have sort of accepted dragons, I think, and it's a known quantity. There's no more dragon-ist nonsense happening in society. People have been sent to dragons into the fold. There was a dark time where dragons were not accepted.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah, because people want, realistically, especially if you're looking at a commercial market, people want something that is familiar, but they want something, a new twist on it. And I think dragons are familiar, but we haven't had an oversaturation of dragons. We've had bits and bobs here and there, but it doesn't feel like they've had the post-Twilight vampire treatment.
01:00:25
Speaker
No, I don't think so. I think that happens, which is why I think Doc Academia is finally allowed to come back because technically, Harry Potter being set in a boarding school. That means that obviously, when I think something blows up that big, I remember there were a few Americans I was speaking to in my own family that didn't realize JK Rowling didn't make up the house point system.
01:00:46
Speaker
because they'd never come across it before. And obviously Hogwarts is just based on a load of actual stuff that happens in British schools. Yeah, not even private schools, a lot of them like, you know, there's plenty of comprehensive schools that have house point systems. So I think and like the uniforms and all that kind of stuff.
01:01:03
Speaker
And I think when something blows up that big, it kind of takes over that thing. Twilight was the same with vampires. And then it feels like no one can touch it for a bit. It's like it's too long. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then eventually it cools down and it's like, we can share it out again. We can use it. It just looks like you're copying, but you're not. Yes, it does. Yeah. So I think now we can have dark academia again. Enough times passed and we can have vampires again. We're allowed now. Until something else takes over.
01:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, you've got to hope Wednesday wasn't too big so that everyone's going to be like, oh, you're just copying Wednesday. Yeah, that's true. That is so true. Yeah, I think all good points, all good points. I think that's about it. You guys ending your chat? No. That's me. That's a wrap. That's a whoop. I don't know how to end it, so I'm just going to...
01:01:51
Speaker
Thanks for putting up with our nonsense for another episode. To stay tuned to everything we're up to, you can follow the podcast on all socials at The Chosen Tropes. Follow Melissa at Melova, Naomi at Naomi G. Wright and Jamie at Jamie X. Greenwood. Don't forget to check out Naomi and Melissa's books as well as the Write in Wrong podcast. Thanks again and we'll see you on the next trope.