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Episode 64: When Doubt Meets Grace: The Road to Faith (Part 1 of 2)
50 Plays2 months ago
In this episode part ( 1 of 2), Janessa shares her deeply personal and evolving journey with faith-a path marked by struggle, questioning, and ultimately transformation. What began as a battle with God has become an unexpected awakening, shifting her perspective from self-focused to compassion for others.
Quote:
"Preach the gospel at all times, and if necessary use words."-St. Francis of Assisi
Biblical story mentioned:
Genesis 32:22-32
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Wounded Healers Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Wounded Healers podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm Janessa. And I'm Amy. We were brought together by our shared wound of an autoimmune condition in our early twenty s This is a place where we explore our wounds with our listeners and guests who recognize the challenges of being human in hopes of helping all of us let the light in.
00:00:28
Speaker
hi everybody, welcome back to the Wounded Healers podcast. We're back again, back to like a somewhat... typical recording schedule which is so nice all this week I was like oh I get to talk to Janessa tomorrow and yeah we are back to business as usual which is so nice Yeah, it does feel nice.
Reflections on Time and Life Changes
00:00:52
Speaker
It's kind of wild what a place of refuge through podcast has become for me, because without it, you know, as life still goes on. But I was just like, oh, man, I don't get to see Amy as much.
00:01:04
Speaker
I don't get to you know, know that you guys are here listening, which is just such a blessing. So thanks for being here. Thanks for being here still. We hope you guys are all good, doing good. Hope this year is treating you well.
Janessa's Transformative Faith Journey
00:01:19
Speaker
um I have a friend who's a school teacher and she was, we were on the phone this morning and she was saying how there's only 10 weeks left of this school year in the UK. The school year goes to like the beginning of August. And I was like, please don't give me a heart attack like that.
00:01:37
Speaker
that this this this year is basically nearly gone already that feels like it's on par with getting older yeah like i know they say time flies but like literally i'm like please slow down yeah i'm not ready same same same not ready ah We have a really exciting episode today that I am dying. I think this is like a part of the reason I was so excited to record is because we are going to get to dive into Janessa's mind, which I always love to do but I extra love it today because we're going to talk about something that's really exciting, something that's a new discovery, a new huge part of Janessa's life that's made a big impact on her.
00:02:23
Speaker
And made a indirect impact on me, I would say, because she's been able to comfort me in ways that she maybe wasn't able to. not to say she wasn't able to, but a different approach of like comforting me while I was going through all the stuff that I was going through.
00:02:41
Speaker
um And I can't wait to hear more about it.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yay. Oh, my goodness. Okay, y'all. So think, first of all, thank you, Amy. And I agree with you. I don't think I could have actually been there in the way I wanted to have previously without the tools I have now. So I'm just, I'm just glad to.
00:03:03
Speaker
Glad to be here. I'm glad that you're in my life and and here for all my many stages and things I find and discover and decide I work or don't work. So yeah how exciting is that? So exciting.
00:03:16
Speaker
um ah So anyway, you guys, today this podcast is primarily around ah my current faith journey and process. That's how I'm kind of wording this right now.
00:03:28
Speaker
And some of you may hear that and say, slam on the brakes, excuse me, you know, um and I don't blame you. um I think I was there once too. ah But I do want to just give you kind of a preface for this episode that the purpose of this episode is I am going to be speaking about a lot of things from the Bible and that are
Societal Prejudices and Open Faith Discussion
00:03:50
Speaker
Christian based. However, my purpose is not in any way to evangelize.
00:03:56
Speaker
I am not here to create and purpose as a Christian for you. I'm not here to convert you into Christianity. I'm not here to tell you your faith is incorrect. That is absolutely not the purpose. I'm not here to shame you.
00:04:11
Speaker
I'm not here to make you feel any guilt. I'm just here to share with you my faith journey in hopes that if anything stands out to you, that you will be inspired to investigate that on your own terms, whether you do that biblically or spiritually or with a community.
00:04:29
Speaker
So I just want to say I love you guys. This is nerve-wracking for me because it's my, it's kind of me coming out mostly about faith. And I know it's a really funny way to put it, but truly I've been a very spiritual person all my life that I've in the past spoken illy on faith.
00:04:48
Speaker
And um now I kind of have to metaphorically put my tail between my legs and apologize and um come clean of what I used to judge and um be honest with where I'm at now with that. So yeah, so that is that is kind of the disclaimer. So thank you for being here. I'm excited to have you listen. Yeah, um I'm just like, yeah, I'm so excited.
00:05:12
Speaker
um But definitely 100% keep an open mind. Like there's always... things you can take out of people's experience without it being a like propaganda you know so please keep listening yeah But isn't it interesting that we have this, before you, sorry, we have this like, you know, it's like internalized homophobia. People talk about internalized homophobia. I feel like we have like internalized prejudice against Christians, kind of.
00:05:48
Speaker
Cause well, I'm like, I'm like, oh God, we can't talk about Christianity because people won't like it. And they'll like stop listening to the podcast as soon as we talk about it. Isn't that, and it's like, why do I think that? I don't know.
00:06:01
Speaker
I mean, in all honesty, we're diving off the deep end here, but truthfully, um it's actually always been that
Janessa's Spiritual Exploration and Christianity Embrace
00:06:08
Speaker
way. um Yeah, you are something I just think is important to know is people who do identify as Christian and throughout the world are still persecuted and killed today for their beliefs. So right now, people are being executed for being Christian. Especially.
00:06:27
Speaker
And I think that's important to hear because it's not people see this as mainstream in the US in certain parts of the UK. But since Since the times of the gospel, um even 12 disciples were all horrifically murdered um in different ways for their beliefs. um So, yeah, the world has actually always been afflicted when it comes to the concepts of Christianity because it can be horrible.
00:06:58
Speaker
uncomfortable and new and it goes against the ways of the world for a reason and you just talk about the disciples has made me go off already into another topic you tell how curious i am but so i don't believe in jesus like i don't i mean obviously i believe someone called jesus like was here and taught spiritual stuff. I obviously 100% believe that, but I cannot at this point suspend belief around the whole him being re resurrected.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, like that obviously, i ah i well, not obviously, but I can't can't subscribe to that just yet. But the the one thing, is like the biggest amount of like evidence for me is the fact that all of his disciples were willing to be murdered.
00:07:48
Speaker
in horrendous ways. um And that is like the single thing that plays my mind. I'm like, why would they all be willing to die? Like one of them got like skinned alive, I think. It's like, why would they be willing to go through that if they didn't, um if Jesus like didn't perform miracles? It's the one thing. It's the one thing that kind of keeps that little bit of like, could it be true?
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i can't answer that for you. For me. Yeah, totally. Without a doubt now. and But I would love to get into the faith journey because this stuff is really good and important.
00:08:28
Speaker
But again, like I said, I don't know for you is is my biggest thing, because at one point I could not suspend my beliefs. yeah for that Yeah. So I hold a lot of space for that. And I don't think you're wrong. yeah That's the biggest thing I'd want listeners to hear.
00:08:43
Speaker
You're not wrong in thinking that because that is that is bonkers. you Like, truly, I'm sorry. That's wild. Like, truly yeah, truly wild. And even Christians and people who aren't Christians who believe in jesus struggle with that yeah and that's a really natural thing to struggle yeah okay let's i won't no more divergence on my part what talk talk to me about how you got here because this is i met this girl three years ago she's like
00:09:16
Speaker
in a jacuzzi, like high on weed, like, I don't know, just like tatted up, like, I don't know, like living her truth, doing like tarot, know? um and if you were to tell me three, honestly, if you were to tell me like three, four years later, whatever we are now, um that she'd be sending me Bible verses, i'd be like, what? So tell us, tell us all how you got here and what's done it. Yeah, okay.
00:09:44
Speaker
I mean, no pressure. How I got here, I'm like, let me self-reflect. Let's see. um Okay. So I guess a good starting point would be like, did I always believe in God? yeah It's kind of a good thing, you know, to start, I think.
00:09:58
Speaker
um To which, ah so I've actually like really... I've really intentionally thought of this episode because I so badly don't want to bring my worldly self to this episode. I really want to bring something deeper and more true to you guys of who I am right now.
00:10:16
Speaker
um So here is that here's that depth. So I actually did not really believe in God ah growing up. um I've always known, though, in my heart that something greater than myself was present in this world.
00:10:33
Speaker
ah i just And I knew it was at play, but I just didn't know what that was. And I called it source or universe for years and years and years because I felt like there was no one word or one name that was all encompassing for me to understand something so beyond myself, but also I realize upon true reflection that I seeked out communities and spaces that were using the word universe and source, uh, or other or being.
00:11:07
Speaker
And, um, these words, I call these like safe words for the most part. These are words that, um, when you say them to someone, they might say, okay, that's a little woo woo, but they're not going to like persecute you and be like, why would you think that?
00:11:21
Speaker
You know? So these are kind of the safe space words in a lot of ways. And that's why I used them a lot. And that just the vernacular I had at the time.
00:11:32
Speaker
um So again, didn't believe in God when my whole life, um but I did believe something greater than myself existed. I just didn't know what that was. And then, um yeah, I guess kind the natural flow of that is like,
00:11:47
Speaker
When did I first learn about Christianity specifically? um And so there's some backtracking here. So like I said, I didn't believe in God when I was little. um But when I was younger, i was attending a Sunday school.
00:12:07
Speaker
um My mom is actually a teacher, um like a co-teacher at a Sunday school at this small Presbyterian church in Menlo Park. California and I just remember a story though that was extremely formative to me um at that church during Sunday school which is the Good Samaritan story but it was told in terms that were applicable for kids um and I just really remember that like really altering the way I saw the people around me and it just really did something to me so that story and I can still remember like
00:12:47
Speaker
the puppets used for it. Like it was, I mean, it was the nineties, you guys, we didn't have like, like vegie yeah um but, but yeah, it was like, I can totally vividly remember this story just like pulling me in and me just being like, whoa,
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah. So that was kind of my first experience around Christianity. But even then, I did not know much about it. and just kind of knew the generalness about it.
00:13:15
Speaker
The biggest thing, so what Amy was saying too, is like when Amy and I first met, it was at this retreat for women with autoimmune conditions. And I was just...
00:13:29
Speaker
not in my power at all um i was falsely in my power i would say i we'll get into this in a little bit but um i know have known a lot of times what the world wants of me meaning what society is deeming as acceptable deeming is deeming as cool trendy um I'm not blind to that and I know it and I was in a lane where at that time in the area I was in everything that I was doing looked chill and it looked trendy and on par for Janessa but on the inside i
00:14:19
Speaker
just felt so lost. um So it can be really deceptive of like what you see um on the outside of people and what you i see on the inside because the outer world doesn't usually account for things that can't be seen. And that's really important.
00:14:40
Speaker
So to address that question again that Amy had is like, so you're spiritual you were spiritual. So like, How have you gone to spiritual to faith or religion?
00:14:51
Speaker
And I would say, you know, I like I said, I always knew something greater or existed, didn't know what it was, but I was convinced by my own. doing, that something beyond us was found in the things around us. And what I mean is like pre coming to faith, um my spiritual journey like started in high school.
00:15:13
Speaker
ah But it started with these thoughts of like, why am i here What is my purpose? And I think everybody has those thoughts. I think that's the most human thought to have. um And I can tell you these, I i wanted to I guess, know the answers to these.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I invested my time intentionally. i like looked at sources, looked at texts, but these were all things of the world I was discovering. So i was discovering like, oh, like do this hallucinogen, try, you know,
00:15:46
Speaker
Try yoga, try astrology, try tarot, try oracle. And I'm telling you that what I'm reading to you guys, genuinely, i did these for years. So psychedelics, yoga, astrology, tarot cards, oracle cards, psychics, mediums, pendulums, aura photography, aura readings.
00:16:04
Speaker
um spells. I tried spells at one point in college with some girls who are really into Wiccan stuff. I tried spell candles to bring you more money. I tried eat Ching. I tried daoing rods and all of them never made me feel satisfied.
00:16:19
Speaker
I'm going to tell you the truth for me. this it and And someone may say, I feel satisfied. And to you, I say, I love you and I'm glad you do. And if that's what works for you that's okay. But my truth is that I was never satisfied.
00:16:33
Speaker
I, in the moment, was satisfied, but I was always hungry for more. And most of the modalities I used were very egocentric, um meaning all of those things always the way I used them were to serve me and for me to feel unique, gifted ah by others.
Biblical Insights and Personal Growth
00:16:56
Speaker
And um even without me noticing, the intention of using all those modalities for me was to understand me. What do I mean to the world?
00:17:08
Speaker
How, who am I? What do people think of me? You know, how do I express me myself? How do I stand up for me myself? And um I've come to realize that those are all extraordinarily egocentric, but told by the world to be good.
00:17:28
Speaker
m um So I think, to be honest, that these can be used in other ways, but the ways I was using them were very selfish.
00:17:40
Speaker
So the other thing is I was truly conflicted at first because I've been exposed to people I love who have a lot of church hurt. Yeah.
00:17:52
Speaker
And often um I've been blinded by extreme examples of faith as a scapegoat for hate. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:03
Speaker
So when I bought my first Bible, i bought it and I really was trying to read through it with a psychological lens to try and understand people who actually believed in Abrahamic gods.
00:18:19
Speaker
So this would be the God of the Bible. And I also selfishly, I just want to be really honest, selfishly, I wanted to be able to use these things Words in the Bible against people who I thought may try to tell me how to live.
00:18:36
Speaker
And mostly because I was gripping so tightly to the concept that Christians were um judgmental, were trying to be perfect, were looking down on people.
00:18:53
Speaker
um So I held so tightly to my beliefs around that. And um like I said, I have met people with church heart. But when I opened my Bible for the first time in 2023, and by the way, I hate this. I wasn't going to tell a single friend I have that I bought a Bible. um And it wasn't because I wanted to come to God. I think that's the important part here. It was still selfish.
00:19:22
Speaker
It was so that when, for example, my mom would talk to me and give me Bible verses, I could say, well, we we're talking about this or that that, you know, this can't be true because of this.
00:19:33
Speaker
So I was in a defensive posture already when I had this. And that was in 2023. And then I read passage. ah passage um And it felt so, I felt so lost that I closed the Bible.
00:19:50
Speaker
I but read one passage in Genesis and I was like, what did I just read? Because my first Bible was um the King James Version, which is the old English version. So it's written a lot like Shakespearean stuff. So it's like the, thy, thou, the. So ah let me tell you, I don't understand this at all. So I just...
00:20:09
Speaker
closed it and in 2024 I bought a NLT Bible which is a New Living Translation and basically i call this like the spark notes of the Bible and jokingly and lovingly I say this because it is like put in layman's terms so that you can begin to grasp the meaning of the concepts.
00:20:31
Speaker
So anyway, that's what I needed. So I got that in 2024. And meanwhile, I was doing as much as I could to bypass reading the whole Bible while trying to understand it. So i just want to be clear. I never had the intention to read the whole Bible.
00:20:44
Speaker
I was going to read a couple things and be like, yeah, these people are super whack. Yeah. Like I figured this out. Like, you know, and it's like, a person who wants to try This is my kind of metaphor for it. i was like a person who wants to try an olive for the first time.
00:21:01
Speaker
um So they just stare at it and they like hold it But to truly know what an olive tastes like, you have to taste it. And I was doing everything but tasting it.
00:21:12
Speaker
So I was opening the Bible, I was reading little scriptures. I was closing the Bible. was skimming through the Bible. ah But I wasn't really spiritually digesting.
00:21:23
Speaker
the words the way they're intended to be digested. Yeah, so it became really apparent I couldn't really understand scripture unless I really committed to reading it and researching it.
00:21:35
Speaker
And reading it at first left me with so much judgment and questions. And um specifically in Genesis, I struggle with the Old Testament still, um but I would even text my stepdad, who is a Christian, and I find it really easy to talk to my stepdad about intellectual concepts because my stepdad's very intellectually intelligent.
00:21:59
Speaker
Like, he just always has been. But he also is compassionate, which I think those two don't always... necessarily go hand in hand. So it's really refreshing. But I said texted my stepdad ah with very accusatory questions about the Old Testament, like literally like, how could you believe this?
00:22:19
Speaker
Like, this is technically rape. ah This is technically sleeping with a family member. And just before just before this time, I found myself one night, I was stirred. So I had texted all these to my stepdad in the most accusatory way, now that I read these back.
00:22:38
Speaker
it was And I'd be like, explain this. How do you explain that? Like literally like that. and um it's And I read those back now and I'm like, dang.
00:22:50
Speaker
Wow. It was not even like a Hey, I don't understand this. I was like, how can you, how can you get behind this? How can you, well yeah anyway, I'll have to send Amy these texts cause I was like, um, but my stepdad has <unk> been gifted with pay me and he texted back honestly and he said, um, I,
00:23:13
Speaker
I can't tell you all these answers. I actually don't know still. I'm still figuring that out for myself. um Here's like what I do know about this passage you're asking about and how that later comes into effect and that it's not always linear people's actions to their repercussion. And we would love to see it linear in a book, but it's not, you know, this is a living text.
00:23:38
Speaker
Like it doesn't, it doesn't happen the way it does in a storybook. So ah he just was really honest about not knowing. And I loved that because i can tell you right now, you should be very weary of anybody.
00:23:52
Speaker
I'm not talking about faith only anybody, mediums, tarot readers, coaches, teachers, anyone who says they know it all and you need to learn from them.
00:24:04
Speaker
Please red flag, look into it. No, truly like we all are, infants to the world and we can hone our craft but like truly it's uh disturbing when someone says they they know everything about something no one does um so anyway i around this time ah just before this i found myself like one night i was really stirred out of bed um with this very odd feeling of needing to pray and it was weird because i am not a prayer i have been a meditator
00:24:39
Speaker
um throughout my life. But praying was so weird to me, the concept. I was like, why do I have to get on my knees? Why? Who am I? What am I supposed to say?
00:24:51
Speaker
um But this was so foreign to me. So I ignored it. ah just stayed in bed. I was like, yeah, not going to do that. um And then I couldn't sleep. It was so crazy. It was like my mind was racing.
00:25:02
Speaker
And at like, I think it was at like 12am or something, I finally was like, I can't do this because I was working. I was like, I need sleep. Like I'm working. I'm stressed out. Like i hate my job.
00:25:17
Speaker
Like I can't be there on this little of sleep, you know? so It was so foreign to me. And then I just, I couldn't sleep. So I made my wait out made my way out of bed to my living room.
00:25:31
Speaker
And I faced my balcony, which overlooks like a man-made little pond. And ah looked through the sliding glass doors and looked out at the night sky.
00:25:42
Speaker
ah got on my knees and I just, um I didn't know what I was doing. I laughed at myself at first. I just kind of, had my hands like on my thighs I just like kind of let them rest ah and I I didn't know what to say and I just felt like so lost in my life that I was like you know what i don't even believe in God and I said that and I said but like if you're if you're real like help me
00:26:16
Speaker
That's it. Just help me. I didn't even know what I needed help from. I just felt like I was like drowning at work and like I just wasn't feeling very fulfilled as a human being.
00:26:26
Speaker
And once I said it, I just started crying. Like i I can't tell you like how long I cried for. i was really tired. I knew it was like early in the morning.
00:26:38
Speaker
ah But I know that when I got back in bed, my husband has like an alarm clock and it was like 1.30 a.m. So after that night, I came back to the Bible and um I kept reading and still I struggled.
00:26:52
Speaker
And I had... ah preconceived notion in my mind that faith feels good and it feels right all the time and something I read didn't when something I read didn't feel good i worried that it wasn't meant for me um and I want to go back to really quick to like how I was misusing and abusing a lot of spiritual practices to just be about me because When I was using tarot cards, I was looking for a good answer for me.
00:27:27
Speaker
i was outsourcing some satisfaction and hope of what I wanted to see. Like, please show me in the cards that I should leave this job. Like, give me give me the tower, give me the whatever, you know?
00:27:40
Speaker
And in that way, you're i was looking for something that felt good. I wanted to feel good from what I was seeing and feel good from what I was doing.
00:27:52
Speaker
And there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel good, but wanting to feel good at the extent of literally diluting myself from the hard aspects of life was really sad.
00:28:10
Speaker
um Now that I can look back, that that really was like, damn, that's not what it's about.
00:28:18
Speaker
I... so i I started to investigate things with the Bible that I didn't like. And then one day ah i went to a non-denominational spiritual center. So still technically not a church. I was still really weary.
00:28:37
Speaker
And the speaker there happened to mention gene ah a story from Genesis, um which was kind out the blue because they weren't really in the Bible. They were in a lot of like Buddhist teachings, a lot of everything else. And it was a fantastic center. Like I don't want to crap on the center at all. It actually was a pivotal starting point for my faith journey.
00:28:56
Speaker
Um, but the speaker brought up Genesis 32, 22 through 32. And this is a story of Jacob wrestling with God. Um, but in the story, Jacob, by the way, if you are someone who's aware of the biblical stories, or even if you, um,
00:29:15
Speaker
have because a lot of the Old Testament is um still rooted in Jewish culture. So if you've heard this, you know there's way more to this story, and I'm so sorry that I can't give that all right now, but I would highly encourage people there is light years to the story before and after what going to read you to what got this man here.
00:29:34
Speaker
So ah Jacob, he... so he did wrong by his brother and that's the most simplified way he actually did horrifically wrong his brother and um his brother went off with an army Jacob ended up kind of getting all the glory all the good things and moving to a land where he met women got married and but he really cheated and stealed from his brother So, Jacob is coming back to God and back to his faith and he is kind of, you know, looking out and into the wilderness and God puts on his heart and in his mind that um he needs to go back home where he came from originally.
00:30:20
Speaker
And he knows through a series of events that his brother, um i think it's pronounced Eshwa, is coming back home as well and that he hasn't seen him since he wronged him. And like, how human is that? That when you wrong someone, you just avoid them. Even if they don't know you've wronged, you've directly wronged them.
00:30:39
Speaker
You're just like, oh, there they are. I'm going to go down a different hall. Like, that's so human. So anyway, yeah. Jacob's like, no, like, I can't go back there. I cannot see my brother. he is so scared of how badly he wronged his brother.
00:30:54
Speaker
But eventually, ah the story moves on and he does end up making his way back home. But he tries to use terms of flattery to make it so that his brother is less harsh on him because he has in his mind a preconceived notion that his brother is going to kill him.
00:31:12
Speaker
for how badly he wronged his brother. And there is one night where Jacob's in a forest and he's taking a walk out in the wilderness because he just cannot rest. His mind is just going wild.
00:31:26
Speaker
And there's this man he sees in the forest. And it's odd. This man like Why is he there? Like Jacob's not sure who he is and something seems really strange about him. And Jacob's already kind of on the defensive. So things and not escalate, but kind of proceed in a way where they actually start to like literally wrestle each other in this forest.
00:31:48
Speaker
And Jacob just keeps coming to the realization that this man is it's not just any man. Like this man, something's really different about him. And at one point, Jacob just can't let go. And this man comes and he he touches Jacob's hip with his finger.
00:32:08
Speaker
And this is a part of the story is that he touches in such a way that the hip joint.
Deep Understanding of Scripture Responsibility
00:32:14
Speaker
reacts and kind of pops out to where Jacob's limping and he's clearly needs to stop wrestling this man but he cannot stop so he just holds on to this man for dear life and this man says you know like this is all paraphrased by the way so please read this story it's done way more eloquently but this the dawn is coming so he has been fighting from night till very early in the morning
00:32:40
Speaker
And, you know, the man's like, it's like dawn, like we need to go. Like it's, it's done. And he's just like holding for dear life onto this man.
00:32:52
Speaker
And he starts to realize that like, again and again, this man, something's different about him. And he kind of is like, what are you? And it comes to the light that this man is sent from God. So God is working through this man. This man is actually an angel, so a representative, a messenger. That's what angel means of the Lord.
00:33:15
Speaker
And Jacob says, I will not let go of you until you bless me. And what a strange thing, you know? so realizes this he realizes this man That Jacob really wants this so bad that he was willing to hang on tooth and nail for like a whole night with this with him as a stranger. And so he turns and he blesses Jacob.
00:33:47
Speaker
But. He renames him. He gives him a new name. And I think this is really beautiful that he remains, renames him Jacob to Israel. and And Israel, which I think is really important for people to know, the meaning of the word Israel is he struggles with God.
00:34:05
Speaker
That's what it means. And it's derived from like the words yesar, meaning to prevail or to struggle. in Hebrew and the word El meaning God. It's really interesting because the story that I, when I read that story, by the way, before the spiritual center talked about this, um, I thought the story was really dumb and I was like, what's the point? Why would the stranger, why would he not let go?
00:34:31
Speaker
ah don't understand. Um, and I realized that like it was the story I needed to hear because I was struggling with God too.
00:34:45
Speaker
And like we just said, it doesn't always feel good. um What's good for you doesn't always feel good. And as I researched the story on my own and I listened to like theologians and scholars talk about it, I just I realized and came to the conclusion that the story really this just symbolizes that struggle that I was having of wrestling with God and just not letting things go.
00:35:13
Speaker
Like my wrestle with God wasn't because I was afraid to see someone I had wronged. My wrestle with God is because I was afraid to see in myself aspects of Christianity and religion because I had verbally wronged that for a long time and had my own preconceived notions about that.
00:35:36
Speaker
That story, like I said, that is in the most layman's terms. Like if you are truly in the Bible, you might be like, hold up, missed so many details. And I did. i just wanted to give you what stood out to me.
00:35:49
Speaker
But yeah, so like if you're ah something I realized too is when I researched that story, that's when I learned codes in the Bible. All I heard is, oh, your name is Israel now.
00:35:59
Speaker
Like God has given you this new name. And it's like, okay, next, you know. I wouldn't have looked that up naturally unless I had heard thats that talk at the spiritual center that Israel means to he who struggles with God.
00:36:14
Speaker
And something I want to say along this journey is I believe for anything. I'm not just talking Christianity. I'm talking if you're into any spiritual practice, any.
00:36:26
Speaker
If you are to bring yourself to any faith and any spirituality, in scriptures were in their text. You are responsible for reading that text and you are responsible to do all the work you can to grasp an understanding of the time it was written in and who it was written for, who the original audience were for.
00:36:52
Speaker
Because a quote I heard that really convicted me, meaning it pointed out a lot of things I was rejecting in me is that the Bible was written for us, but not to us.
00:37:04
Speaker
It was written for lineages beyond, but it wasn't written to Genessa. So of course I'm going to need to research things. Of course I'm going to need to um experience what Hebrew, like people who study Hebrew say about certain words because Israel, I had no idea that's what that meant.
00:37:22
Speaker
So it holds so much more significance. And so that story really that cracked me open and that became the vehicle that made me interested in what else I was missing in the stories.
00:37:36
Speaker
So I was just reading the stories of stories, but I wasn't reading truthfully into it because, like I said, I hadn't felt in my heart or in my soul that I needed to understand these on a deep level. I was just like, meh, meh, meh, meh.
00:37:53
Speaker
But I truly understand now that like, even if you're spiritual person, if you're just out here looking to feel good all the time.
00:38:05
Speaker
And you are not doing your work to struggle with what you are doing. You should struggle with it because your struggle creates the truth and authenticity for you to have courage and have faith in what you're doing and to make it personal.
00:38:24
Speaker
Yeah. When we take things too lightly, they lose their sacredness. it's It's interesting because then that also, I just have to say, that opened up the door for me. So here I am. I'm in the public library in my town, which I love. It's so nice.
00:38:42
Speaker
And I am squirreling away my Bible in my backpack. I don't want anyone to see me with it. I don't want to tell a single friend of mine. Only Amy really knew. And it was like...
00:38:54
Speaker
I just like couldn't hide it from Amy. I feel like Amy knows like everything deep about my life, even though we don't see each other person. But it's amazing. So I just squirreled this away and it was so sacred to me. And I just hid this because I felt like I've said before a metaphor of a new tree.
00:39:11
Speaker
Like sometimes when you're planting a new tree, you have to put this little fence around it. And it's to keep people out of the way and animals out because that tree is so new that it needs to grow roots before anything can disturb it and uproot it or interrupt its growth.
00:39:28
Speaker
And that's how I felt. I needed to put the fence around me. I needed to protect this. I needed to understand this because at this time I still was like, I don't understand what I'm reading. Like what is happening?
Faith's Impact on Personal Freedom and Purpose
00:39:40
Speaker
And I kept thinking of like words that I was triggered by and one was literally God. I always was triggered by that word. I was like, oh, yikes. You know, i investigated that a lot more for myself and I worked for why I was triggered by that.
00:39:57
Speaker
And another word that I believe a lot of other people need to hear this is like the word repent. I always hated that.
00:40:08
Speaker
I really did. um To me, repent meant to confess. That's how I perceive the word. So I a perceived like repent of your sins as the most ick and I still feel anxious when I say that.
00:40:25
Speaker
I felt that to be the most ick thing when I was younger when I'd hear people saying that because I was like, who are you? And I want to tell you that when I researched the word but ah repent, I was I was absolutely proven wrong. Like I said, like there's so many preconceived notions I've had that I'm sure other people have had. But to repent actually just means a profound change of mind and heart. And it leads to a transformation in one's life rather than than just feeling sorry or regretful.
00:41:00
Speaker
That's the literal definition. So when you hear repent of your ways, It means we hope, it's a hope that in the world, if you are living for money or you are living for your job or you are just living in the world, you're of the world, that hopefully something happens that has a profound change on your mind and on your heart, the way you see the world around you.
00:41:28
Speaker
and that it leads you to transformation in your life rather than just writing off what you just learned and experienced and say, oh, I'm so sorry i did that. I regret it. And then not changing it. Yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
So repent. It's just let it seep in and and and choose a new way. You don't have to keep going that route. And when I learned that, I was like, whoa.
00:41:53
Speaker
I way more it would rather someone say, you know, I hope something happens so beautiful in your life that it changes your heart and your mind around how you feel about this.
00:42:04
Speaker
I hope that something happens so beautiful in your life that it transforms you in a way you never thought it could. And I hope rather than feeling sorry for who you were, regretful for the way you may have used to acted, that you'll just decide that You can make peace with that and you can apologize for that and you can come back from that and you can choose anew.
00:42:24
Speaker
That's really what that means. The other thing I struggle with, another word, just to be honest, is fear. So I always heard like fear the Lord, like fear God. And I was like, ah yeah like why would I want to fear someone who's supposed to be my father? Like, why?
00:42:39
Speaker
I don't get So I researched that trigger word for me. So I just, by the way, just wrote down all these things that triggered me so deeply. And I researched them, researched them, researched them for months.
00:42:52
Speaker
So something I found is that in Hebrew, which we we have to recognize the original languages that these texts were written in, because there are variances, small variances, but there are.
00:43:06
Speaker
And one of them is that in Hebrew, the word Yaira, it's translated as fear in English. But in Hebrew, the word Yaira holds a whole meaning that English can't encompass, which is awe or reverence.
00:43:21
Speaker
So when they say fear the Lord, it's be in awe of God, be reverent, be taken aback by the greatness of something. It's not yeah cower away, hide hide under a rock.
00:43:33
Speaker
Fear is used in the Bible as we know it. But when they say fear the Lord, it it is rarely meant like run away and hide from the Lord.
00:43:44
Speaker
It's meant be in awe of the greatness. It just changed like the way I saw things. And um I realized that for me that I had so rarely investigated something for myself and not for an alternative of trying to prove someone wrong or trying to prove my knowledge.
00:44:09
Speaker
And what I want to come to is that this is a lot of, I'm a facts girly, like you guys know this, like I'm a facts girly. I'm very, I love science. I love psychology. I want to understand things.
00:44:24
Speaker
um But what I came to the realization of over months and months and months of doing this on my own is that what the gospel, which by the way, gospel just means good news.
00:44:42
Speaker
That's its literal translation. So the good news here that I read is that the when I was younger, when I said I knew there was something greater than myself, but I didn't know what,
00:44:53
Speaker
That also as a teenager and as a young adult, I used to tell my husband too a few years back that I felt like an alien. Like I felt just like, like this can't be it.
00:45:06
Speaker
Like the the world just feels like even once I achieved something that said was great or profound for me, it all just kind of melts away after like a few months and it feels...
00:45:18
Speaker
Like it's just there, you know. And truthfully, what I've learned through scripture is that. That don't conform to the world.
00:45:30
Speaker
So what you'll learn through scripture, if you take that journey. you will struggle with a lot, and free warning, ah but that's good.
00:45:41
Speaker
You should struggle with faith. That's how you grow. That's literally how you grow in a relationship is to discuss what you struggle over and and openly. And something I struggled with was I was putting for so long my value of myself in the hands of other people.
00:46:07
Speaker
I cared so deeply for what people thought of me and how people perceived me that I overworked myself.
00:46:19
Speaker
I thought it was the greatest accolade of my lifetime to be promoted um in such a short amount of time and to be recognized by a company. And I i can't tell you, i have been disappointed again and again and again.
00:46:40
Speaker
by my expectations of what I've put my value in. And it makes sense to me now because if you do choose to get into scripture and you do choose to read this, like God created the environment here, but God realized this was a very broken world and that people had gone astray.
00:47:02
Speaker
So he left us with beautiful things here, but This isn't his world anymore. And it is broken.
00:47:14
Speaker
And so when I spent all my time, all my effort trying to fix this world to resemble a place of paradise that I wanted, I was putting all my effort into something already so broken it It cannot be what I want it to be.
00:47:35
Speaker
And so when you recognize that this is a broken world, like people say, the system's broken. Baby, the world is broken. And it doesn't mean to give up on the world. In fact, for me, what it means is like, I'm taking what I'm learning and I'm becoming a vehicle for Christlike love, meaning i don't need it to be all about me anymore.
00:48:00
Speaker
In fact, what I do Let my name not be remembered. Let just the action be remembered. um And to go back to that, that's the fallen world thing is like this world wants you to be self-conscious.
00:48:18
Speaker
It wants you to care so deeply about what other people think about you because that's how it keeps you here. Because if you were to really understand like that you are already all you need to be to be loved and that you are already loved and that you already have every single thing that qualifies you as connected to something greater than you.
00:48:49
Speaker
If you really knew that, if you really studied it, if you cried over it, if you struggled with it, then nothing in this world, they can take your job, they can repossess your house, you could lose a loved one that you love so much. Sorry, I'm a little emotional.
00:49:09
Speaker
And nothing can take away what you know about yourself. Nothing can
Faith's Transformation on Daily Life and Interactions
00:49:14
Speaker
shake you because your confidence is not rooted in the world. And that's the gift.
00:49:20
Speaker
That's truly the gift. And it's literally it's available to anybody. um And that's the gift I've come to. And that is not to say that I still don't struggle.
00:49:31
Speaker
That is not to say that finished the Bible. I've gotten very far, but I'm not done. And that's not to say I won't have issues with the way people convey things from the Bible and from Scripture.
00:49:45
Speaker
But I'm telling you, if I could just, like, give you what I have now, i would. i would i would i would freely give it to you, but it's something that I cannot give because it's not of this world.
00:50:01
Speaker
It's something that you if you're interested in, you need to do the work for it. That is that, and i think around that, something that a family friend of mine read that really stuck with me is um from this kind of devotional book.
00:50:19
Speaker
It's under the date. It says, of course you haven't been fulfilled in this world. It's a sign that you've been designed for a world to come. So that whole time I felt like an alien here,
00:50:31
Speaker
And I felt like, man, does, like, everybody know what they're doing and I just don't know what I'm doing? It's not that I'm alien to this world. It's that there is something more whole, more holy, less corrupt, less broken.
00:50:46
Speaker
and But it's just, it's not right here. There's glimpses of it. There's commercials of... of what people call heaven. That's what I, I learned that from a speaker is like when something really beautiful happens, like you're sitting with your friends, there's a sunset, you have a heart to heart with a friend, you feel this immense amount of love, a stranger just like treats you to a coffee and then just says have a good day and walks away.
00:51:10
Speaker
Like those little moments are just commercials for something beyond this world um that we all inherently are tethered to.
00:51:20
Speaker
I guess I learned that this world isn't the paradise that is coming for me. And it doesn't make me disengaged and it doesn't make me think that it's all an illusion. That's not true. This is a very real world.
00:51:35
Speaker
um But it it pushes me to step up and to do better in this world. How do I create more moments, little glimpses of heaven for people here?
00:51:48
Speaker
Um, for me, I think I just do that through love and my heart has been completely shifted and changed because now when I give back, I, i don't want to tell people about it.
00:51:59
Speaker
You know, I just want to do it. And just the fact that I know it and God knows it is enough for me. Like, and I don't need to prove myself to God. That's the other thing. You don't need to prove yourself like, like ever. You're already just like loved.
00:52:14
Speaker
So Yeah, it's been a huge pivotal change for me. And I feel like I could go on and on and on. And I started this off wanting to give you guys more of like almost like a sciencey feel and like the research and the theology.
00:52:28
Speaker
And that's so important. And it's my due diligence to have to do that because I can't just drag you guys into this conversation without truly investigating this before. um So the other thing I want to let you know is after doing that, the spiritual aspect to this part of my life has been so significant in the way that it's it has um it has kind of almost like cracked me open and filled me ah with something totally new and I'm really grateful for that and yeah like I said this just doesn't change how I feel about people in fact I feel more imbued with the need to do better as a human being and be less concerned of myself
00:53:17
Speaker
beautiful i think i think the like that's all absolutely stunning and i was quite enraptured by what you were saying at times i could like see obviously i have the benefit of like seeing janessa while she's talking through all these and like you really see the emotion and feeling and yeah like I can kind of like see you accessing ah different part of yourself when you talk about this stuff which is really fascinating to see and obviously also su just underlines how how deeply you feel about everything
00:53:58
Speaker
um I think the I don't know the things that stood out to me the most are that when you started ah when you started uncovering all these things it was like you were really really looking for reasons not to believe like you were trying to prove yourself against or prove that it wasn't what yeah I don't know, don't know, it was almost like, I'm, my interpretation is like you had a feeling all along that you were going to end up where you are now, but you just wanted to like sense check as much as you could and like fight against it so that you could
00:54:40
Speaker
believe so much now that you get to this point like it's almost like that was just your approach of like rather than and experiencing it and then being like great yeah that's me sold you were like really trying to make sure there weren't any avenues where you could falter or like any holes in whatever it is before you, um yeah, signed yourself up for Not that you signed yourself up for it, but you know, like came to come to where you are now.
00:55:11
Speaker
and And yeah, I think that, I don't know why that's standing out to me so much. I guess maybe but we can all feel like that a little bit sometimes.
00:55:23
Speaker
I think like, with what you were saying about the universe and source and how easy it is for everyone to talk about stuff like that, like, if the, theoretically, that is the same thing, then we all ah yearning for connection to a higher power and don't understand, like, I mean, I guess Christianity is just a different way way of experiencing that connection to the power so I feel like maybe i see myself in what you were just talking about does that make any sense I don't know it totally makes sense and that's that that is the other thing too that I think is a important for me to say is that
00:56:11
Speaker
I'm not like I said, I'm not here to evangelize you. I'm
Struggles with Societal Influences and Faith's Liberation
00:56:14
Speaker
not here to make a listener a Christian, but I'm here to share this good news with you, because if there's anything like Amy just said, like, oh, we're all looking for the same thing.
00:56:26
Speaker
I totally agree. And for me, this is this is where I found it. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that way for you. Yeah. But I am just putting out there and.
00:56:38
Speaker
And also the other thing that is kind of wild when you said that, Amy, is like I was looking for reasons not to believe because I think on a subliminal level, I thought that if I could find reasons not to believe, then I could keep living the way I was living.
00:57:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't want to be wrong about the way I was living. and When I did repent, when I realized I have been living in in main character mode with the most sass I can say that with, um I realized that ah through repenting and and literally a change in my mind and my heart that like I used to say this and I'd be like, yeah, I'm no better than anyone else.
00:57:32
Speaker
But now I really know. I am no better than anyone else. In 50 years, my great grandchildren will know my name, but they won't know my favorite color. They probably won't know my favorite song.
00:57:46
Speaker
In 100 years down the line, no one is going to remember me or most of us. Truly. I am so honest with you. No one will talk of you. Like truly. And it's just it boggles me how wrapped up I am in myself when It's not about me.
00:58:05
Speaker
It's about something so much larger than me. So the turning away, the turning to a new direction is like now when I walk into a situation, I don't think, oh, my gosh, what do they think of me? yeah Am I wearing this?
00:58:20
Speaker
Do I look good? Like, did I say something good? Like, did I sound good? I'm walking into a room with a whole new perspective of how can I be of service here? What can I do tonight to help somebody in this room?
00:58:33
Speaker
What can I do tonight to make someone feel loved? What can I do tonight to make someone feel seen? What can I do tonight to just express the love that I am imbued with and the confidence I'm imbued with to someone else to hopefully bring that out in themselves? And again, I'm not here to evangelize.
00:58:51
Speaker
And one of my favorite quotes my my ah therapist gave me, um and I think it's, I'll have to put in the show notes because now I'm blanking, but it's something roughly that may I spread the gospel everywhere I go and to everyone I know, and may I only use words if absolutely necessary. Yes, I've had that before.
00:59:16
Speaker
Yeah. And i I feel for me that I don't need people to believe what I believe, but I need to i need to allow God to work through me to love others. Yeah. yeah That's all we got. This is all we've got.
00:59:31
Speaker
And. And now I'm not living for for just me. I'm living for something so much greater than just me. Yeah. And it makes sense, like, why you would want to be in that space because, like, it's so much easier to live for something but bigger than you, like, to be in service of other people. Like, that is so much easier than trying to...
00:59:55
Speaker
like constantly make yourself better like constantly like live up to expectations like I can ah I can imagine it feels like very freeing to just be like I'm not important here after like many many many years decades of not feeling like that yeah no a hundred percent it literally feels symbolically like whatever was Shackling me to something like meaning i was so tied so connected but I was holding the freaking key the whole time unlock myself from this but I couldn't unlock myself from this and and one thing I want to just publicly confess with you guys is like
01:00:44
Speaker
one of the biggest struggles for me was social media yeah was Instagram because I used to put a lot of value in the followers I had and the way people responded or reacted to the content I made.
01:01:02
Speaker
Like literally I put a lot of value on that in the past. Yeah. And I left social media, all of it for over 60
01:01:13
Speaker
And it felt like I could see the world again. Like, it just felt so freeing to not be fed narratives or to not see these, like, people.
01:01:32
Speaker
Like, I'm so sorry. It just is, like, micro-sized version of the big picture was saying of the broken world is it's, like, Don't fall for it.
01:01:44
Speaker
It's fake. Like none of us, like literally you're on an app and that's in the physical world, but everything you think and you scroll from and you do, that's not the real world.
01:01:55
Speaker
And something I realized is. A lot of that played into how I saw faith. I had put, I had made idols and they talk about this in the Bible. And all this mean is if you make something greater than God, if you make something greater than the beautiful unknown, the beautiful mystery, the reverence of something beautiful.
Encouragement for Personal Spiritual Exploration
01:02:16
Speaker
then you will fall to the idol and so what I was doing is I made followers I made clothes I made my job an idol and I can tell you what I thought about those things more than I thought about the health and well-being of people around me for years for years Years and years and years. And now i'm I'm I'm disgusted with that. Now I literally think that's not even the world. That is a literal illusion we are all buying into.
01:02:50
Speaker
It is. And you can do good there. Let's not to say you can't. But I wasn't. I wasn't using it for good. Like I know my heart. I wasn't using it for good. um Oh my god, I feel like I've just been read to Phil.
01:03:06
Speaker
I thought about clothes more than I think about people's well being. I'm like, no, that's me. Wow. She's holding a mirror up to me, guys. I bet some of you listening, she's holding a mirror up to you guys too. It's hard. And the thing is, the mirror, it goes two ways, like you said, because that's the other part I think I struggled with around faith is I felt that people in their faith walk were so elated about life that I felt like they looked down on me. Like, oh, you still, you know, you still do that, you know, like i that's how I. And so truthfully, I tell you
01:03:43
Speaker
thought Anything, any wrong you have done is no worse than what I have done. I mean it. So I can't judge you on that. um I'm not.
01:03:55
Speaker
I'm. And in fact, thank God I'm not the one who gets to judge you on that because I am too human to make a genuine assessment of another human. I'm too flawed. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:09
Speaker
ah my gosh. Okay, so i have an idea. i think because that was epic, truly, i would would describe that as epic, like everything that you just spoke through.
01:04:24
Speaker
Why don't we do a part two yeah of a faith walk? Because then I can just ask you like, what about the devil? What about hell? What about the gays? Like, we'll just do that next week or in a couple of weeks.
01:04:41
Speaker
I love that so much Yeah, it will be great. It'll be great because there's so much to speak about there. And yeah, I just, again, i want to thank people for listening because you may be feeling triggered through some of this or you may be feeling uncomfortable with some of these aspects and And I hope that that discomfort moves you to investigate how you feel about things honestly and truthfully. And if you feel like this enlightened you in some way or brought some good news to you, I hope that you won't just stop there. I hope that you'll take it into your own hands. and
01:05:17
Speaker
do your own research, really please do not take my word for it. I
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:05:20
Speaker
am still a baby in my faith and I want you to ah have the most nurturing experience to continue to look around you ah and to get into scripture. So yeah.
01:05:32
Speaker
yeah oh Thank you so much for speaking on everything. a lot of food for thought. A lot of food for thought for me, even. um And the we'll see everybody again in two weeks.
01:05:48
Speaker
And until then, remember to let the light in. Bye.