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Episode 54: Self-Silencing Is Making Us Sick
49 Plays7 months ago
Big shout out to our listener Wendy for reaching out to us on IG (@Woundedhealerspodcast) with this thought provoking Time magazine article, "Self-Silencing Is Making Women Sick". Amy and Janessa discuss the serious repercussions out lined in this article and discuss ways we can navigate to ensure we are looking out for our health and wellbeing.
Time Magazine article "Self-Silencing Is Making Women Sick":
https://time.com/6319549/silencing-women-sick-essay/
Our Sponsor Just Thrive has given us a promo Code for any of their products: PROMO CODE: WHP for 15 % off any product https://justthrivehealth.com/
Our commercial break is brought to you by professional voice actor Emory Tibbetts.You can inquire about his services on IG @ emorytibbettsvo and on his website EmoryTibbetts.com
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Transcript
Introduction and Mission
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Wounded Healers podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm Janessa. And I'm Amy. We were brought together by our shared wound of an autoimmune condition in our early 20s. This is a place where we explore our wounds with our listeners and guests who recognize the challenges of being human in hopes of helping all of us let the light in.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hey, Janessa. She really me off guard though. I was like, Oh yeah. Um, but no, hello everybody listening. We're so happy to be back. today. um Really exciting today because we have a listener request and they mean so much to us because it's just so nice to know that there are the, I mean, we know there are those of you that listen. We know that because there are those of you that like support our Instagrams all the time and stuff so we know we have regular listeners but I guess like knowing that you guys like read an article and then think like want to get our opinion on it is just it blows my mind. I'm like ah I can't believe there's people out there that like yeah really want to hear what we think about things like it's just you don't yeah it's so awesome guys.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'll echo that. It is so cool. I feel literally giddy when I see listener requests. I'm like, oh my gosh. Yes. Yes, we will.
Listener Engagement Plans
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it really wants, it makes me want this to be like, like I want to get to know you guys better somehow as well. Like maybe do, I don't know, maybe we should should try and do like a zoom call or something and just put it out there and be like random zoom.
00:01:57
Speaker
we are We are going to record it. And if you want to if you want to jump in, come and jump in. come out That could be fun. Anyway, we'll we we park that idea for now. um But yeah, okay. So yeah, kind of gave it away that we are going to be talking um about an article today, but we'll we'll get to that in a second and we'll do Hot or Not First.
00:02:25
Speaker
So I am at the moment dealing with something that we' I'm not going to talk about on the podcast, but it has been a trigger for today's hot or not.
The Ethics of Insincere Apologies
00:02:37
Speaker
And today's hot or not is apologizing when you don't really mean it, but because you know, it's for the best in a situation. Is that hot or not?
00:02:53
Speaker
That's my internal dialogue.
00:02:56
Speaker
um but Yeah, damn. Okay, I'll hop right in then. So after that abrupt scream, I'm like, okay, I'm done. So yeah, that is the heart. Okay, I really believe it's one of the most difficult things we will do throughout our life is to have to one, either own up to something we don't feel like we need to own up to, that should have just been knowledge between everyone, or to apologize for something that we just genuinely, we stood our ground, we were showing our boundaries, and the other person just feels there's an apology that is owed to them. yeah These are the most difficult parts of life. I mean it. i yeah and And the interesting part to me is like,
00:03:43
Speaker
I am quick to judge, like when I go over in therapy stuff about like growing up. that I wish was done differently, I'm quick to be like, yeah, I hope someday I'll get a resolution with that parent or that like grandparent or something. I'm quick to do that, but the second someone comes to me, I'm such a hypocrite sometimes. And they're like, yeah, I need some resolution on this. I'm like, oh, hey, no. So especially if it's like, I can do it if it's honestly my bad, yes. But especially if it's something where I was like, no, I stood in my ground. I spoke my piece. I don't want to apologize for that. um
00:04:20
Speaker
but behold there is some kind of beauty and knowing that you have if it's truly in alignment if you do feel like this is I'm gonna call it a band-aid situation where your apology to that person is gonna kinda put the bandaid on to start the healing of a wound for that person. Sometimes it's a really nice courtesy, but also it goes, it's gonna go hand in hand with what we're reading today, I can't give it up. um But sometimes you need to speak your mind and sometimes you need to say, I am so sorry that what I did, like you felt that way about. yes And I don't even like to say, I made you feel that way because no one can necessarily make you feel
00:05:04
Speaker
and anything, like they choose that after a while.
Societal Expectations vs. Authenticity
00:05:07
Speaker
um So I, okay, I'm gonna say, shoot, I'm always like, it's kind of hot, it's not hot. um I just am gonna throw over the blanket of, it's, ew, I hate it, I hate it so much, because it's hot when it works, but it's really not hot when it doesn't. So I'm gonna go with like, it's not hot. I know that's controversial.
00:05:29
Speaker
No, I think I get that. I do get that because there's nothing hotter than straight staying true to yourself truly. Like that, if you can pull it off and if you are tough enough to like deal with the hostility that can come your way when you do stand up for yourself, then staying true to to that is definitely the hottest option.
00:05:58
Speaker
But we have to be realistic where we live in. It's not us against the world. Maybe it feels like that sometimes, but there are other people around us who are impacted by our actions and I think, yeah, if it's making life hard for people around you and because you're staying true, sticking to your guns, whatever, um then I think it is a really can be really hot to say sorry just to keep the peace.
00:06:32
Speaker
and because you know you don't always have to mean it as well and that's probably the worst advice ever I definitely probably shouldn't be putting out there that people should go and make amends with people and not truly mean it because that um that's probably even more toxic but um Yeah, if it's it conceding is really gonna take something from you, then just bullshit your way through it, babe. And just hold yeah hold on to that hate in your heart.
00:07:07
Speaker
I just put on that face. Don't let your mouth say words of peace.
00:07:17
Speaker
That's toxic. as That is toxic. Don't do that. No, don't do that. But but we I will say your onto something there yeah to break it down even more is it's like if it's it's hard to get over our own pride for ourselves sometimes and if it's a matter of pride lay it down and just be real and apologize yeah but if it's a matter of self-respect and self it comes down to it disrespects you as a person for something that made you who you are you know that's when i think it's not hot
00:07:50
Speaker
yeah oo Very difficult to lay down, but it can it can be done. Yeah um yeah Yeah, it's too very it's too very different things is like yeah, it is too very different things ah ah um Yeah, so hang on, what did you say? It is hot or it's not? You said it's not hot. I said it's not hot, but like now I'm like, it is under the right circumstances, you guys. I just feel like I wish I was more opinionated sometimes. When I listen back every now and then to our hotter knots, I'm like, I don't know, yes, no, yes, no. And we're like, you can choose one. I'm like, ow. So um yeah, this one I really am in between the middle, but I'm gonna go with cold just to spice it up.
00:08:29
Speaker
it's not hot it's not hot yeah okay yeah you know what i think it's not hot either i think i think what's hot is like staying true to your staying true to what you believe that's hot um but i will say that sometimes it's necessary to do not hot things in in the pursuit of of a better life so yeah that's it we can't be hot all the time no we'd be too powerful It's just so true. That's so true, exactly. Yeah.
00:09:03
Speaker
um Okay, cool. That's nice. That's good. um And as Janessa alluded to earlier, our topic of today does feed into that really nicely.
Impact of Self-Silencing on Women's Health
00:09:16
Speaker
um So a listener,
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Who we agreed not to name prior to this. We were like, because I did not ask this listener, like, can I say your name on the podcast? And for some weird, weird reason, that's like corporate America baked into my brain. I'm like, if we don't want to, we won't say it. Janessa's afraid we're going to get sued by our listener for disclosing her first name.
00:09:48
Speaker
like do we hide do we i don't no anyway yeah no you know should listener you know who you are and no one else needs to know who you are but thank you for and sending us this article Hey there, healers. We're going to take a quick break to introduce you to some of our sponsors.
00:10:05
Speaker
Hey healers, it's Janessa, and I'm here to remind you about Just Thrive, which is a pre and probiotic brand. We've spoken to them briefly on our nutrition episode, but I'm here to remind you because after getting certified in nutrition, I found that a hot topic was pre and probiotics. Now, unfortunately, research shows 95% of probiotics don't even make it to your digestive system, which is where they're needed most to help our flora and fauna.
00:10:28
Speaker
Thankfully, Just Thrive has created a product that does just that. It just thrives. So it makes it all the way to your gut in support of your flora and fauna. And let me tell you, I have seen a huge difference since I started using their products. In fact, so much that I reached out to them and said, can we please please get a promo code for our listeners? And they said yes. So they picked us up with a 15% off promo code.
00:10:47
Speaker
which is WHP and that's WHP for Wounded Healers podcast. You can put that in on their website for any of their products to receive 15% off. Thanks so much listeners and continue to let the light in.
00:11:00
Speaker
So this is article is from Time magazine a couple of years ago. um I can't find the day on it right now, but I know it's from October, 2023. So only last year. and The year title is self silencing is making women sick.
00:11:20
Speaker
So I'm sure you guys hearing that you can immediately start like putting pieces together in your mind of like how that relates to your life since we are mostly women and we are mostly sick. But yeah, that's I think how we are going to tackle this. We're going to kind of go through um and just me and Janessa are just going to sprinkle our tidbits on it as we go.
00:11:44
Speaker
yeah yeah be here We'll be here throughout for a real real live reaction. Live reaction of the article. Okay, um do you want to go ahead and do the first paragraph? Oh my gosh, I always get nervous when I read something with other people. Sorry, Amy, just took a drink of water and nearly spit it out. um Okay, yeah, here we go, guys. befully
00:12:10
Speaker
and above all else it's sparkling water which is like the worst thing you could choke on yeah there's some still water like three days old here let me drink this and try and calm down okay i'm not gonna look at you through the camera okay so guys i'm gonna go ahead and start so it starts off by saying be more disappointing is not a piece of advice most people would pay money to hear but in my therapy office, it's often the most valuable guidance I can give. My clients are mostly women and nearly all of them struggle with the fear of disappointing others.
00:12:45
Speaker
Our culture rewards women for being perpetually pleasant, self-sacrificing, and emotionally in control. And it can feel counterintuitive for my clients to say no, or firmly assert their wants and needs. But my work is about is about helping them realize that their health might literally depend on it. You guys, I think I think i nailed it. and Great reading, hun. My heart was like, do, do, do.
00:13:12
Speaker
ah No, you didn't stutter. And something that really jumps out to me about that is how counterintuitive it can feel to say no. And I just, I really feel like The amount of, I can count the amount of times I've said no to something important. Like obviously if someone says like, do you want a cup of tea? I say no. But like in terms of like a big thing and like a big decision that's really meaningful. I really think I can say the amount of times I've said no.
00:13:48
Speaker
on, I could count that on both hands, like when I would have, when I would have wanted to say no. Um, yeah, I know we've discussed it before that I've like sometimes felt like I lack assertiveness in relationships and stuff like that. And I'm clearly not alone in that. Um, but yeah, like what, what is, I guess it's the, it's the people pleasers in us that just really struggle with saying no.
00:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I think it has always occurred to me that there is a large portion of women who are naturally caregivers and in a society that is dominating and mostly masculine representing in the way it functions, like corporate America, that nurture gets really shoved aside and the way that it can be expressed sometimes is by like,
00:14:39
Speaker
kindness and people pleasing but the problem is that gets taken advantage of because one people pleasing it is its own thing and its own issue at hand but just like like that comes down to the pride thing too there's so many times i think as a woman i've wanted to be like i disagree with you in like a work meeting then in front of a bunch of men i'm not gonna necessarily say that right then like i just don't i'm like okay and in my head i'm like no that was not the move um but yeah i think it's just baked into a lot of women who are naturally caregivers as this idea to
00:15:18
Speaker
nurture the people around them, even though the people around them are like not invested in their wellbeing. And that's when it gets dangerous. Yeah. And you that's just made me think about the whole like good girl situation. Like, and you know, I saw the most random thing on TikTok the other day, but you know, they do those experiments where they like have kindergarten kids, like, and they film them and they like do random things to like challenge how they socialize with each other.
00:15:48
Speaker
So one of those the other day and it was like someone had made like jelly or as you would call it I guess jello and you know like the stuff that's wobbly like gelatin fruit flavored and and they put salt in it and given it to these little girls and Like as in the person that had had made it was like oh, I've made you this like jello and joy and And these girls were eating it and like grimacing and being like, oh, yeah, it's nice. Because like they know at a young age like not to offend people. But the boys were like, that tastes bad.
00:16:31
Speaker
And the comments were like, it's because like boys and girls are held to a different standard of like manners and of, yeah, like politeness. And like people expect young boys and therefore men to assert themselves, say what they mean. They don't expect women to do that. And it's all, you know, the part of gender roles and how we're raised.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's wild. And I'm sure a lot of that too for women can be mirrored from our caregiver or a parent. yeah yeah yeah I feel like if we have ah a female in our life who maybe is working on a sorting themselves, we might pick up where they're at too and notice that. I'm not saying anything's wrong with with your care caregiver. you know She's just a girl. Okay.
00:17:21
Speaker
um okay that So today women account for almost 80% of auto immune disease cases. They are at higher risk of suffering from chronic pain, insomnia, fibromyalgia,
00:17:39
Speaker
Long COVID, IBS, and migraines, and are twice as likely as men to die after a heart attack. Women experience depression, anxiety, and PTSD at twice the rate of men and face a nine-fold higher prevalence of anorexia, the deadliest mental health disorder.
00:18:08
Speaker
Wow. And I know, I just want to reiterate what twice as likely means or like twice the rate. Like that means it happens at double the rate. Like for every man that has a heart attack, dies from a heart attack, two women will have died from that heart attack. Like that is staggeringly high. Like it's not just a little bit more, it's staggeringly more. Um, yeah. I would say, okay. And this is not medical advice. Clearly I am not a doctor, but I worked in a cardiology clinic for like three years and something I noticed as a theme for some patients, not all was that some of the patients who had the most severe, not severe, but I would say almost very severe heart issues.
00:19:03
Speaker
they were really angry like they would just come in and and you may be thinking yeah i'd be pissed too if my heart was faulty or has anyone said dodgy um but yeah like so i couldn't get that but what i'm trying to say is i really believe and there's different cultures that believe this as well that like anger can really stagnate in the heart or in that part of the body and sometimes i would just feel it even booking people's appointments that they were just so angry with everything around them and um
00:19:37
Speaker
and I guess, you know, i'm I'm just saying this because I really just genuinely feel like women specifically suppress their anger Yeah, it's not a welcome to motion. Yeah, and I know we've said it before but I have always found it to be more digestible society for me to cry rather than to yell or to be angry and that is something that He kind of blows my mind is that it's very normal to see a guy get angry to some extent or frustrated and then we say oh He'll be alright like he'll cool off. He'll come back to his you know Center but the second we see a girl kind of get angry or start to kind of
00:20:17
Speaker
you know, throw a little fit, we are like, oh no, oh no, calm her down right now. you Like for some reason, feel like it's gonna get out of hand. In reality, they usually don't, like it will calm down just like a man's. Yeah, yeah i would I would love to get angry. As we said before, I never get angry, I just cry.
00:20:37
Speaker
And i I was talking to a woman at work last week and she was like, oh, my emotions totally betrayed me. Like I was talking to someone in a meeting and I started crying when really I was like pissed off at how everything was going. And I was like, sis, me too. Like, why a why can't they? Yeah.
00:20:57
Speaker
I think it's just this like seriously like on a spiritual level thing. I literally think it's like energy like women have been suppressed in so many aspects of our lives that it literally hurts us like every time it happens it collectively hurts yeah women. It's another kind of dent in the shield that we all have been kind of like putting around ourselves. And it just, that's scary and it hurts. And so we cry, I think it's a collective cry, i like when women are angry. Yeah,
00:21:33
Speaker
girl. Well, but should we continue? again Yeah, yeah, Okay, here we go. So it says, why is it that women are falling ill to these diseases at a rate so much higher than men?
00:21:45
Speaker
Such jarring ah disparities cannot be accounted for by genetic and hormonal factors alone. Psychological factors play an important role as well. Specifically, it seems that very the very virtues are culture rewards in women, agreeability, extreme selflessness, and the suppression of anger may predispose us to chronic illness and disease.
00:22:07
Speaker
So you guys, I just feel like we just, yeah, that's what we just talked about. yeah It's almost like we read this article before. oh my goodness ah god um In the late 1980s, Harvard trained psychologist Dana Jack identified a recurring theme among female patients suffering from depression.
00:22:29
Speaker
A tendency to self-silence defined as the propensity to engage in compulsive caretaking, pleasing the other, and inhibition of self-expression in relationships in an attempt to achieve intimacy and meet relational needs. Through longitudinal research, Jack found that this learned behavior, strongly rooted in gender norms, was linked to an increased risk of depression.
00:22:59
Speaker
and Yeah, so that is really interesting to me that the fact they've called out and in an attempt to achieve intimacy and relational needs, because we all need that part of our service, like the part that is in intimate relationship with others. like is And as part of that, we feel we have to be pleasing to others, particularly in a traditional like male-female relationship. like We want to be approved of so that we can be close to our partner. um And yeah, we know that the best way to please men is to take care of them and to not be a problem for them.
00:23:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm. It's so disappointing for myself to think about my past self sometimes like I have to forgive her but like there have been multiple circumstances with past relationships or even encounters with with men where I have just been super just dulled down version of myself and like I didn't really want to do that but I did because I knew they wanted to and it's just and it's not even just about like sexual stuff it can literally be like I didn't want to go to your friend's house to watch you all play video games
00:24:17
Speaker
like I'm sorry, I don't give a fuck. I wanted to like be somewhere else, you know but I sat there and I watched you play video games you know for no reason other than to be compliant and to be a good girlfriend. But yeah, it just it kind of breaks my heart because something I kind of think about is like,
00:24:39
Speaker
with little kids like i think sometimes in the past it's been like at playgrounds when little girls don't agree with another kid on the playground it's been like you know the mom might interact or caregiver or dad and be like okay walk away you don't like it walk away i used to hear that a lot But now something that's encouraging is I actually listen when I'm at playgrounds now because some of the parents will say, you can tell them you didn't like that. You can tell them, no, thank you. And like little kids are like, no. They're like, no, what? And like, don't throw cyan at me. And you're like, yes. But like, it's good. Like, that's something that I'm not sure. I can't really recall that far back. You know, that was like for me when I was little, but I'm
00:25:22
Speaker
happy to see parents who are asking kids to state what they don't like.
Teaching Expression to the Next Generation
00:25:27
Speaker
Instead of being like, walk away, it's okay, it's okay, just walk away, you know? yeah i but Yeah, I feel like we do need to encourage children not to fight, but to to stand up to each other more and express their needs more, especially girls. Especially girls. Yeah. yeah And then I would even take it a step further to say it would be really neat to not only encourage your child to say no and what they don't want,
00:25:59
Speaker
But then if they are able to at the cognitive phase they're at to say what they do want, that's really important. yeah Because it's easy to think about what we don't want sometimes. And then when it comes to what do you want, actually, that's hard. And I think if you can help a child reconcile with that, especially a girl that later on in relationships, they'll say, oh, I don't want this. I know what I want. Hold up. It's like, oh, I just don't like this. I don't know what I want. you know um think I think that could be powerful. Uh, yeah. I mean, you just, my heart just got filled with so much hope of the thought of a young woman in a relationship being like, hold up. I don't want that.
00:26:41
Speaker
Wow. i want that Wow. What a mind-bending proposition. Yes. Yes. Here. Okay. And I guess we'll just keep on reading on then. Let's see. Is it? I literally lost track. Is it my turn or your turn? I think it's your turn because I remember being frightened of the word longitudinal and that was in the sentence. I just read soon. Yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
All right, here we go. So since then, considerable evidence has revealed that female self silencing isn't just tied to psychological issues like depression and eating disorders, but also to physical illness. For for instance,
00:27:26
Speaker
in March of 2022, A team of researchers at the University of Pittsburgh discovered that women of color who strongly agreed with statements like, I rarely express my anger to those close to me, were 70% more likely to experience increased keratoid. Oh my goodness, what is this word? Ethereal, oh my gosh. Ethereal, ethereal. It's spelled A-T-H-E-R-O-S-C-L-E-R-O-S-I-S, so pronounce that how you want.
00:27:57
Speaker
um a cardiovascular plaque associated with higher risk of heart attack. Other studies have connected self-silencing to irritable bowel disease or syndrome, HIV, chronic fatigue syndrome, and cancer among women. And if you made it past that with me, thank you.
00:28:15
Speaker
That was a little bit of a tumble. That was a tough one. I think that's carotid atherosclerosis. Thank you, Amy. It's definitely- You literally read this before and I should have taken notes. It's definitely sclerosis like because we know that's um yeah that's another illness, isn't it? Carrotid. God, I'm so sorry, everyone. I'm so sorry.
00:28:39
Speaker
When I went through this, I read that originally, like I read in fantasy books so I can't pronounce something, I go hum-na-weh in my head. And hum-na-weh and then I keep going. i'm like um But that aside, how crazy that this is exactly what you're talking about people with heart problems. This is exactly what you and alluded to Aliam. Yeah it is wild and also I want to say there's ah documentary i watched so i studied psychology in college and there's a documentary wowa we watched and i cannot remember the name of it but i will look it up and put it in the show notes there's a moment where it's of women of color being interviewed and they're being interviewed for ptsd that has reached down many generations and there's a moment where this woman said something so profound she said that when
00:29:31
Speaker
She checked out at a cash register.
Cultural and Historical Trauma Effects on Women
00:29:34
Speaker
Her son had bagged the stuff, had collected the change that you know came out, of the little change thing. And um the person helping them, ringing them up, was like, oh, he's such a good boy. like He's such a good kid. And she like recoiled at that. And she was like, I didn't understand why I recoiled at that when other moms would be like, oh my gosh. like Yeah, my kids did great. And she said you know she really believes there's like a deeply rooted PTSD within women of color specifically of African descent or black american know where they feel like back in the day literally their children were sold in front of them and oftentimes if they were good at what they did it in ensured their selling like and procured a spot for someone else to buy them and so there's this collectiveness she talks about for women that hits them when they hear their son is
00:30:26
Speaker
ah You know really good at that or something like they're proud of their son Yes, but there's this fear of like something or someone taking them away for being good at something So I can't say that extends to everyone but that part of the documentary literally just made me ball because the way she said it was eloquent it's nothing you know it's much better than the way I just stated it but that's something because they're speaking of women of color and I just feel like even and even just going to Hispanic which is my nationality and background is I'm half Mexican and like
00:31:02
Speaker
My Hispanic women I feel like have also been through a lot a lot of stuff in the US and just you know having to keep families afloat having to keep families going having to try and learn a new language having to take on very difficult jobs like cleaning is kind of awful if you're doing it in hotels like yeah like it truly you're exposed to chemicals all day like there's so much there and the thing though is i guess what i'm getting at here is like it i think it gets suppressed because it is a seen as a privilege to have made it to the u.s at least
00:31:37
Speaker
you know, so you don't want to complain about where you're at, especially if you're an immigrant, but at the same time, they're not complaining into the taking the sacrificing. Yeah, just where is that? You know, so anyways, strong, strong feelings there. But yeah, no, it's, it's kind of crazy. Like, I think I've said this before on the podcast, but it blows my mind every now and then that on my biological dad's side, I'm the first generation in the US from my dad and so that blows my mind sometimes still yeah yeah well yeah I mean your dad's whole story is kind of mind-blowing and your story that comes with that um but yeah thinking about people of color and Hispanic women it's like the the
00:32:23
Speaker
Fear and the struggle is like twofold because it's like everything you just said about them trying to create a life for themselves against tougher odds and that's like both like black women and Hispanic women that are immigrants.
00:32:39
Speaker
um but then with the fear of like your son or your children being targets like in a way that like white people just don't have to worry about like if we're talking about and like Mexico like men going into like cartels like how do you how do you even have a son a growing up I mean obviously that's why they're flipping freeing fleeing for their lives but like you know all of falling into that and then exactly what you were saying yeah exactly what you were saying with the black um with black women in um having dealt with that with slavery and it still happens now with like gangs and you know like it really is it's a ah life of like fear and terror like horrendously but it's i feel like that is what it is
00:33:29
Speaker
Totally. And it's so, I believe it's just so silenced too by the majority of people because of things like, and this is a heavy topic where I don't think we can get into this today, but certain types of appropriation are really gross to me. And like specifically things that are appropriated to like.
00:33:49
Speaker
make a culture of violence look really cool, specifically to white guys. And it's like, wait a second, like this is actually not OK and not cool. um Totally, it could be a whole other episode, so we won't get into that. But a lot of there's been a lot of silencing for people of color. And Amy and I are definitely recognizing that and seeing that this is not this is ah this is not good. This is not good for women, especially. yeah yeah okay Most jarringly, women's self-silencing has also been linked to higher risk of premature death. In one study, researchers followed nearly 4,000 people in Framingham, Massachusetts over 10 years.
00:34:35
Speaker
they found that women who didn't express themselves when they had fights with their spouses were four times more likely to die than those who did. This was true even when factors such as age, blood pressure, smoking, and levels of cholesterol were taken into account. And that is, as I texted Janessa when we were first discussing this article, that's me, Dad. No, I'm kidding. ah Hopefully. No.
00:35:03
Speaker
no yeah That is so sad to me that like especially in and relationships and like something I heard recently is that so like let's say you're in a relationship that you're not necessarily happy in but you're not completely miserable yeah like that's still not exactly like evaluate what you want because that might not be what you want you know that's still not quite it and it's hard but it's true that like and I believe this will set us free is like just knowing that sometimes your heart has to break in order for your soul to be saved
00:35:47
Speaker
You know what I mean? like and And that's not my own words. like I'm pretty sure that is like biblical somehow. like like don't don I won't swear it on the Bible, it's in a directlar yeah yeah know but I think the direct quote was like, Jesus will break your heart, but it's all to save your soul. ok Meaning like certain situations just like, will not work out and they will hurt like heartbreak so bad but it's all in preserving who you are and keeping you truly intact and the only thing that had to break was was your heart which is a huge huge thing that's not to downplay it but what I'm seeing here is I really feel that a lot of women will
00:36:27
Speaker
not avoid the heartbreak, avoid the risk of being seen as a problem, but they'll negate their own soul, like yeah um tear away at them to the point where they will even lose kind of sight of wanting to get out of the relationship because now they don't even remember.
00:36:42
Speaker
how to navigate outside of it. Yeah, and I just let let this paragraph that we've just spoken about be your biggest motivator to speaking up to yourself. Like if you, like your your life is literally on the line, apparently. Like you are more likely to die early if you don't speak up for yourself. So let that come to the front of your mind. You have to be with someone who can deal with you speaking up for yourself.
00:37:11
Speaker
You have to. and And if they can't, then that's not who you're supposed to be with. like huge yeah people Your partner more than anyone should be able to hold space for you and your feelings and your thoughts. And it's the it's the one area where you really should feel like you can speak up. Like if you can't speak up at work, if you can't speak up with your friends, with your friendship group so big and like you don't want to offend people and like cause divides.
Encouraging Self-Expression in Relationships
00:37:38
Speaker
It's just you and your partner in your relationship like that should be indivisible no matter what you say really. So speak up.
00:37:48
Speaker
Definitely. And then again, you know, just confirming and we're not talking about like an abusive relationship that has a different set of tools and standards, which we've talked about before, Amy, even really good about that, that sometimes it's beyond your comprehension. You need to get like someone else involved. So that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about general relationships. yeah yeah Definitely not if it's going to put you in danger. Um,
00:38:14
Speaker
So yeah, I guess we'll move along. And let me just clear my throat. So when women push their feelings down and cast their needs aside, their health suffers, but it can be difficult for women to do otherwise. In a culture that celebrates these self silencing practices, while young women are praised for being chill, moms are revered for being painstakingly altruistic.
00:38:41
Speaker
to the point of self abandonment? a Abnegation. Oh my God, there's a tendency on that one. These unspoken standards establish a vicious cycle for women. It feels easier, beneficial, even to silence their needs at the expense of their own health rather than swim against the prevailing cultural current. Dang big big words. No, that's, I think moms are so self-sacrificing. Like it actually hurts sometimes because there is a part of me that says that's a good mom. She's like,
00:39:18
Speaker
laying all of what makes her heard down to take care of her kid, just putting her kid first, right? Yeah. But that can be really dangerous. Yeah. Yeah, that results to women exploding. Well, you know, like, like, verbally, like, exploding their lives. and Or, you know, as I'm sure this is alluding to, like, being ill, like, you just can't take it anymore.
00:39:43
Speaker
um self-abnegation by the way is like self-denial or like didn't like so within this context it would be like mums are revered for being painstakingly altruistic to the point of denying their own needs is basically that translated so yeah that is so sad because i i can just see it i can see it so much that like that and you know that's something i wonder too is like when moms lay everything down and sacrifice how they feel and clearly like it's with the kids you're not going to tell your kid how you really feel yeah like and you shouldn't you shouldn't yeah it's not they're not ready for that yeah their brains are
00:40:29
Speaker
still developing, very spongy. um So those things need to come out with your partner again. And so if you do not have a stable partnership or a very good therapist, if you are not with a partner and doing this single handedly, or like just a friend who can genuinely be there, like you, you really need to evaluate. You really need to think, you know, how can I build a community? How can I get help?
00:40:52
Speaker
Um, because one person, I think about my mom because my mom was a single mom when I was growing up. I don't know how she did it. I literally don't like, and that, I can see that being why you'd need to lay everything down. Um, but one thing I did see my mom do that I was really proud of her. Now that I'm an adult, I can recognize.
00:41:11
Speaker
is my mom went to college when I was little and there were days where there was no one to watch me and she would talk with her professor ahead of time and I would get to sit in on these college classes in the back and I would have little toys and stuff during the lecture and um There was one class, I don't know what it was, um but there was a little bit of swearing in the passage they were reading. So the professor told my mom, okay, Janessa, it's time for earmuffs. And like I would put my hands over my ears just for them to swear in the passage of reading.
00:41:46
Speaker
But what I'm trying to get at is like, my mom didn't sacrifice her want and need for knowledge and education. And I didn't understand that as a little a girl, but as an adult, having been there and seen her studying and trying to become more in her career path, that is very like wow like ah yeah it's just props props to her on that yeah yeah i mean your mom is definitely like a go-getter you know she's like doing iron ladies
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, they should be called Iron Ladies. They're not. They're just called Iron Men, no matter and what gender you are. um But yeah, I'm sure like her tenacity and her resilience and all of those things really helped her forge the the life she did, like having you along for the ride. So yeah, hats to her, because that's obviously not easier.
00:42:52
Speaker
but it's much easier said than done. I'm sure that was really, really difficult for her at times. And, and like, you know what, I see it too in my own mom. Like she didn't, she had, you know, what you would look on the outside as like pretty perfect life. Like what you could wish for in life. Like her parents were around for a long time. She had like a hardworking husband. She stayed at home with me and my brother while we were really young. Like when we were like going to school, she went back to work, but um I know 100% that she mourns like the opportunities that she passed up for the benefit of me and my brother, which
00:43:35
Speaker
I couldn't I think I've said it on here before like I couldn't have had a better childhood like everything that she did was in service to us and she has the payoff of that now because every time she talks to someone they're like wow your kids are amazing you know like she definitely she she's reaping what she said when we were younger for sure um but that doesn't stop her acknowledging that she missed out on stuff and like she didn't have a career um Yeah, there's things she didn't have, there's things that she did sacrifice and that is gonna take up a part of her as well. It's the age-old thing, like women can't have it all, can't do it all well, no matter how much, you know, society and movies tell us that we can be a working mum that raises, you know, cool kids that don't have any problems and it's not realistic. Yeah. Yeah. Then they're not showing the ending, which was like, we apparently get sick and die sooner. False endings. The sequel. The sequel. Death. Yep. Oh God. and Legally Bond 4.
00:44:46
Speaker
yeah
00:44:49
Speaker
and In his best-selling book, The Myth of Normal, physician and author Gabor Mate writes that many of our society's most normalized ways of being, the qualities we regard as admirable strengths rather than potential liabilities, are in fact incredibly toxic.
00:45:11
Speaker
that not listening to self in order to prioritize others' needs is a significant source of the health-imparing roles women assume, Marte explains. It is among the medically overlooked but pernicious ways in which our society's normal imposes a major health cost on women.
00:45:34
Speaker
yeah yeah Yeah, I feel like I don't have much to add to that. Just go on to the next paragraph. It seems that virtues of womanhood are not really virtues after all. Instead they are wreaking havoc on our bodies and our health and the way they often do so is through these seemingly normal daily experiences that slowly over time chip away at our vitality and erode our well-being. My clients tell me things like, I don't deserve to put my needs first. I'm not the breadwinner. Or I said yes, even though I didn't want to. In their gradual attempt to be what society considers quote, good, they run the risk of compromising their health. Yeah, nice. I mean,
00:46:22
Speaker
I think the only thing that is someone saying I don't deserve to put my needs first I'm not the breadwinner is
Valuing Homemakers and Emotional Awareness
00:46:30
Speaker
if you have like come to an agreement with your partner where you're at home and he makes money or she to be fair like if someone else in your relationship makes the money and you stay and look after the home that is an equal amount of work to the person that is earning money and they I know that they did a study on this like how much it would cost someone if they were to hire people to do all the work that women did at home
00:47:02
Speaker
In the UK, at least, I think they decided it would cost about £800 a month, and that doesn't include childcare. like If you put childcare on top of that, like you're talking that woman's worth is like four grand a month. and that I'm just talking like cleaning, cooking, like all of that.
00:47:21
Speaker
um So don't ever think and don't ever let your partner tell you like while you're not like earning money, you' you don't really have an opinion here. I mean obviously that's very toxic and I'm sure a man wouldn't say that to you. and But if you're thinking that inside your head, immediately remove that thought because your work is valuable, not just in making a home, but it also has a literal monetary value that someone would have to pay for if you weren't doing it. So it's contributing just as much as a paycheck is contributing, if not more so. No, not more so, but it's definitely contributing.
00:48:00
Speaker
No, totally. That's something that I'm not a mom yet, but Zach and I have talked about cause I've had these moments where I get really kind of emotional and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm not bringing in the money I used to. Like you're really taking on the majority of our expenses. And I just feel literally sometimes I hate that I feel this way, but it's my truth. Sometimes I just feel kind of useless and I'm like, I'm here, I'm studying, I'm in school, but I feel like I should be doing more. And Zach always like,
00:48:28
Speaker
I like I really just lucked out. I love this man so much, but he was just like Babe, like he said exactly you're saying Amy like there is So much value in what you are doing right now And he's like, you're helping out around the house more, like things are more cleanly now. Like, you know, you're, you're doing so much self growth. Like he's a little like, you're just like you're on it. He's like, just basically like it's valuable. Like that is still hard work. And I was like, thank you. like god So no, I i love that. Cause I'll sometimes just freak out and be like, yeah.
00:49:02
Speaker
Yeah, it is valuable. It is, yeah. um As a psychologist it can sometimes feel challenging to help my clients take back their emotional and physical health when they're contending against a complex cultural system that is reinforcing them to do the opposite. However, I have found that there are some tangible changes that really do in practice make a difference.
00:49:27
Speaker
It can be paradigm shifting to understand that behind every emotion exists a need. Anger, for example, can signify the desire to change our current circumstances. Rather than women treating our emotions as inconvenient, bodily malfunctions best to be muted and ignored, we can teach ourselves to view them as windows of insight Instead of casting away our anger, a valuable question we can ask ourselves in moments of frustration is, what am I needing right now?
00:50:02
Speaker
ah I love that. When was the last time, please, listener? Did you stop and think to yourself, what am I needing right now? I can't remember the last time I thought that to myself.
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah, I... No, yeah, no, nope. For some reason I was like, yeah, I've thought that. I'm like, nope. No. no um as We constantly forget to check in on ourselves. Always. We're always worried about something external. We're always worried about what we're eating, where we're going, what time the appointment is, like what we're watching, whether everyone's happy watching what we're watching. Like, honestly, the amount of times I'm like,
00:50:48
Speaker
Do I think Edouard's enjoying this program? Why is that any of my business? If Edouard's not, he's not enjoying it. He'll say, like, I'm not enjoying it. Like, why am I worrying about everything? Yeah. I literally say, or I'll apologize if the movie totally sucks that I picked out for us. I'm like, I am so sorry I put you through that in sex. Like, oh my gosh, it's fine. We, so what? It was an hour. We're good. Yeah. like yeah And yeah, that's really impactful. What am I needing right now?
00:51:18
Speaker
All right, well I'll just kind of keep going here. and they um So another practice closely related to this boundary setting for women who have been unconsciously taught to view our likability as our greatest asset, boundary setting can often feel counterintuitive.
00:51:36
Speaker
Many of us fear that if we honestly communicate our needs and limitations, this will threaten our relationships.
Setting Boundaries and Compromise in Relationships
00:51:43
Speaker
But it's the contrary. That's true. When we set healthy boundaries rather than toxic ones that can lead to radical individualism, our relationships actually become stronger and healthier, and having healthy relationships is integral to our physical well-being.
00:51:59
Speaker
one meta-analysis showed that women, I inserted that, people with more supportive social relationships have a 50% lower risk of premature death. Okay, that's interesting though and like this is when you do need to be careful kind of what we were talking about earlier with the hot or not and stuff. You don't want to be sticking so true to your guns that you end up without anyone to support you. So yeah, you do. I guess it is hot to concede for the greater good. I guess that's what this article just... I would say, yeah, and I think in your marriage or your relationship, yeah.
00:52:45
Speaker
yeah Specifically, I feel like that's a different ballpark for me, you know? Yeah. Like I can concede in my relationship, I think, easier than I can concede to like an aunt or uncle, you know? I'm like, okay, wait, I see you a couple times a year. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But no, that is important. It's like,
00:53:05
Speaker
ah something that we did Zach and I at our wedding is we had these cards on the table and it was like advice for the newlyweds or like your best relationship advice and I actually like when I got them I was like oh it's a cute little activity for people to do I wasn't really thinking much but Zach and I reread all of them recently and I mean they ranged from ridiculous to very helpful um but one of them said in a great marriage at times you will compromise out of love like you you're gonna do something you didn't want to do because you know that that's something your partner really cares about and really loves and I what we took that as is like for example Zach loves art that's like a part of him that's who he is and some nights Zach wants to just do art together like he's like why don't you you know do beading or do leather work or whatever you want to do and and I'll do my pottery and we can sit and listen to a podcast when we do this. And there are nights where that is what I want. And I'm like, yeah, and it's great. But there are nights every now and then where I'm like, I don't wanna do it and I won't. Or there's nights where I know, I can see it in his eyes, I can tell by the way he's saying it, like he needs to do art and he needs some motivation to do it. and So even though I don't wanna do art, I'll say, hey, let's let's do the art tonight. And he's like, oh yes, thank you, thank you for pushing me. And that's where I compromise sometimes.
00:54:27
Speaker
And that doesn't harm me in any way. You know, like it's just for the greater good of our relationship that now his needs have been met just as he meets my needs and then we can show up for each other. So I would say, yeah, sometimes you do have to kind of just compromise and compromise can mean just meet right in the middle.
00:54:46
Speaker
yeah yeah go and to reshape the virtues of womanhood a new normal needs to emerge one in which we honor our emotions prioritize our needs and actively communicate our boundaries such a shift requires change on both the individual and societal level and will by no means be easy but it's certainly worth it after all women's lives depend on it And I always don't like it when it says something around change needs to happen on a societal level. Because I'm like, well, that change isn't going to happen. Well, yeah, no, it's that hard and daunting. But they're like, you just have to walk 10,000 miles to get to the store. And you're like, well, I'm not getting to that store. But I guess the kind of exciting thing is it just as
00:55:41
Speaker
as they were saying like things slowly chip away at people I think things slowly add to people like how am I saying this things slowly add to people just as they would chip away you can also add on to something and I think that you know like if if we're taking this and even if you do one thing differently like let's say this week you're like I'm gonna work on just saying like but Like you were saying, you can say no to a cup of tea. am I literally have not a time. Like my sweet, sweet grandma sometimes will be like, do you want some tea? And i I don't, but she already has it in her hands. And I'm like, it's not a, do you want, it's like, here's your tea. yeah So I'm like, yeah. And um yeah, no, so I mean, even if it's something small being like, thank you so much for making that. I actually am okay without it. yeah yeah and I'm sure my grandma would be fine with that too. yeah But no, truly like,
00:56:36
Speaker
even if it's just slow progress, it's still progress. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And i and ah yeah I completely agree. And I think making these little changes at your own level could be really what you need to do to preserve your own health. Like let society worry about itself. Let everyone else worry about themselves. Think about what you can do for you.
00:57:02
Speaker
think about how you can be a little more assertive for you. Um, yeah, how you can put your needs first, how you can check in with yourself and say, what do I need? And yeah, let the rest, let the rest worry about itself. Just, just worry about you and make things better for you. Yeah. And I would just put in there too, like when they're telling you to think about what do you need or what do you want?
00:57:29
Speaker
It can be really hard with all the noise of the world to get silent with yourself and figure out what you want. And something I've been doing more in my life is like, I have noticed like, I have noticed how awful Instagram and TikTok are to my own wellbeing because It's a lot of opinions, you guys, and that and in it's opinions that can hurt you or opinions you can agree with, but the thing is it chips away at you. yeah Similarly, like it's not you thinking for yourself, it's you being fed very quick. reels of thoughts. So just be mindful of what you're taking in and ask yourself, you know, like, do I want to follow this content? Like, does this add to my life? Or does this bring me some entertainment? Or like, is this just making me feel like shit? So unsubscribe if it makes you feel like shit. And just getting quiet with yourself and getting to know yourself more will help you know what you want.
00:58:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um, I also want to, before I forget, I just want to shout out the person that wrote this essay that we've just been reading, Maitul Iyal, um, is a psychologist, writer and speaker. Thank you for letting us use your words. Um, if this ends up somehow within your sphere. Um, and they also,
00:58:55
Speaker
have a podcast called heal with it. So if you liked this and you liked their words, then go and check out their podcast. Cause I'm sure it's going to be more of what you like. Yeah. And we'll link it in the show. Yes. too So you can find it there. Yeah. Um, yeah, you guys again, like, just thank you so much for the listener who submitted this. We, it means so much to us. So please, please continue to do that. And then also a reminder,
00:59:25
Speaker
I know we've said it like once on here before, but I just want to remind you that our handle on Instagram, if you're looking to DM us to tell us what you'd like to hear, it's wounded healers podcast.
00:59:35
Speaker
So that's wounded healers podcast. Go ahead and DM us. We would love to hear from you. Yay. Give us topics guys. Cause it also means we don't have to think of topics and that's really nice.
00:59:50
Speaker
Okay. Well, we'll catch you guys again in a couple of weeks. on And until then, remember to let the light in. by