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Episode 59: Grief & Growth: Life After Losing a Parent
61 Plays5 months ago
In this heartfelt episode, Edouard opens up about losing a parent at a young age and the ripple effect that loss has had throughout his life. He reflects on how early grief shaped his relationships, personal identity, and outlook on the future, offering candid insights into resilience and growth in the face of deep loss.
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Wounded Healers podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
I'm Janessa. And I'm Amy. We were brought together by our shared wound of an autoimmune condition in our early 20s. This is a place where we explore our wounds with our listeners and guests who recognize the challenges of being human in hopes of helping all of us let the light in.
Introducing Advaha
00:00:29
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Wounded Healers podcast. I'm Amy and I'm here with Janessa. Hey, Janessa. Hey, everybody. I hope you're doing well. Good to be back here. Yeah, Janessa's got gorgeous new hair as well, which we haven't discussed, but she had her hair done yesterday and it looks amazing. um And we have a very special guest on the podcast today. Very special guest to me, my boyfriend, Advaha. Hey, everyone. Thank you for having me.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yay! Oh my gosh! And also I just thought of this. ah We
Cultural Misunderstandings
00:01:03
Speaker
have two beautiful accents because I know a lot of our listeners are in the US so this is just a treat for all of our ears. They're gonna get crazy for Edwars but Edwars has such a nice voice even by like even in like the standards of Britain where apparently everyone has a really nice voice. He has such a nice voice that the waitresses when he came to the US couldn't even fathom what he wanted it to order. but I would just like a voice.
00:01:27
Speaker
I think that they were just too stunned by his beauty. They were too stunned by his beauty and then... Can I get a coffee? They're like, you will get chocolate milk.
00:01:38
Speaker
That was how it was, wasn't it babe? Yeah, so what did we do? I think that was bob over the course of the trip, eight coffee orders and about six of them were all wrong. and I even remember saying to you you Amy, I was like, am i is is ah am I saying something wrong? Am I using that the wrong words? yeah but No, no, it's just for whatever reason it wasn't coming across right. You're just too gorgeous for the girls to take your order. is It's funny you say about the whole accent thing. So um I work in sales and we have to listen to our um all our meetings.
00:02:17
Speaker
And whenever I hear my voice, I'm always like, oh my God, I sound awful. That's the same with everyone though. Like when when we listen, when I listen back to these, I'm like, good God, the yeah the grating. ah same Same here. yeah Or if I have like a high pitched laugh, I'm like, whoa, eardrums. Oh no. There we go. my I have developed a really horrid laugh and as I've got older. It's like very like guttural like it's not that. This has only happened in the last couple of years. So I'm gonna do with my voice box like maturing. It's not good. You're good. You're not alone. I don't know why mine sounds like I'm crying. Okay I actually think I make people think I'm crying when I'm truly laughing in real life because it gets really squeaky and high-pitched and I cover my face a little. I'm like that's probably it. I need to uncover the face.
00:03:05
Speaker
yeah Let it shine. but Let the joy shine. Yeah. Okay. So
Discussion on RFK's Policies
00:03:13
Speaker
this, we have a very special episode this week, hence why Edva is on. But before we get into all of that, cause it's kind of serious, kind of deep, um, we want to have a little bit of light relief with hot or not, as we always do. Um, and we've got a hot or not for the intellectuals today because Edva is here and Janessa is also very intellectual.
00:03:36
Speaker
um Me, not so much, but hopefully I'll just be able to like drop some drop some nuggets and as we go. But our hot or not today is Robert F. Kennedy. I don't know why I needed something after it. Yeah, you did. Yeah, that was right. um yeah Who should start? Who wants to go? you I think you should start, Janessa, because then Edouard can i bounce off of your points.
00:04:00
Speaker
Okay, so we know that this is kind of a hot topic collectively and not in the cool fashionable way. Did you, wait, did you guys have hot topic in the UK? No. Did that joke make it over? Oh, it was like an email store. I'm so sorry. I was like, oh, no laughs anyway.
00:04:17
Speaker
it's so um so anyway yeah so it's a hot topic right now not in the fashionable way um but we know that there's a lot of feelings around politics but when i'm talking about rfk i'm really talking about his policies and his thought process and i just think it's so easy to go to either extreme right now like either you hate him or you love him and i just want to be really upfront that i'm kind of right in the middle with him i think he has some really great policies around food and certain food, you know, I would say like quote-unquote natural food ingredients that are not natural and he's really calling those out. um Also I just have a lot of respect for what he's doing with food because of the way the system with the FDA used to use um marketing when it came to food and they could redact what was in it for the public to see in the U.S. so that's pretty nasty and if you don't know that you don't know that.
00:05:13
Speaker
Um, so he's doing some pretty great work. The thing I want to point out is what I see going around as a rhetoric of he is banning all vaccines and that we're all going to get polio again. We're going to have some really terrible diseases. This is literally what I'm seeing on a daily basis on Instagram. And I'm like, everybody calm down. Um, so no, he's not banning all vaccines. I just want to say that there are some he's making optional.
00:05:39
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so I want to just put that out there. Everyone seems to be on this train of like cancel him in the US because of this vaccination stuff. Yeah. really Yeah. If you're liberal now, um, middle middle ground here. So I like him. I think he's doing some great stuff. And yeah, what do you guys think? So I'm going to go pop.
Politics and Healthy Leadership
00:06:02
Speaker
um mostly on the basis that I feel like in politics there's a big stigma that all these people that are supposed to leave health secretaries or in our case it's the the minister of health they often don't really represent a healthy person and they don't sort of their daily life doesn't sort of demonstrate that they're keeping active really pushing sort of taking care of your your body And I think from just from the outset looking in, I can see this as a guy that actually takes care of himself. He's actively pushing of exercise and whatnot. And I think.
00:06:41
Speaker
I think where he's probably quite controversial is he just pushes back on things. He always try and create a counter argument to taking something, which I think is needed because if you just accept what's given to you, then of course these things, all these sort of nasty things can happen. So I think it's good to sort of counter the argument of what's being put in front of you. Because I think there's like in the US, correct me if I'm wrong Janessa, but there's Let's say you come up with something and let's say, I don't know, a supplement because that's quite a deregulated industry. It is. um You can have a special formula and then you're not legally required to disclose what that has. And I think, again, I think there's been a few things on that, not so much with RFK, but sort of people who are pro health same. People need to disclose what these things are.
00:07:34
Speaker
and I think his perspective on things is trying to use data and whatnot to justify the use of certain things and I think for that reason that's good and if it's controversial great because the whole point of politics is to have a debate around things not just to accept what's being given to you.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yes. Oh, snaps. I'm stopping so hard right now. sorry I think the whole U.S. needs to rewind and replay what you just said. Yeah, it is about having a healthy debate around these things. And we lack debate right now and we lack the health of having different opinions. So, oh, my gosh. Sorry. And and like I wish. Yeah, I think from the UK perspective.
00:08:12
Speaker
I don't know, I feel like a lot of our MPs just, you never see them really pushing a lot on health. You may see them doing the runs, but it feels like it's a bit of a PR stunt where they're just caught running around and looking like they're doing something. yeah But for, I think the vast majority, it doesn't seem like health is really high on their agenda. So I think to have someone who's actually pushing that, that's great for young people because then that becomes enormous. Like, oh, I should be exercising into my sixties and whatnot. So yeah.
00:08:41
Speaker
it's it It's always been what when it comes to the like the topic of health, it's always seems to be like making sick people better again, but health really is should be the majority of healthcare or health discussions and politics should be keeping people healthy before they get sick, which is deaf not so much here, but definitely not in the U.S. I feel like in the U.S. there isn't much autonomy on people to be um well before they get sick. If anything, they're like, get sick.
00:09:21
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, I can't, I haven't read much into ah RFK. um So I probably can't give him a heart or not, apart from the fact that he is kind of actually hot for like an old guy, right? yeah He's a good shape. He's a bit of a hear me out. But I can't say much about his policies. So I'll go with Edouard on heart.
00:09:39
Speaker
I mean, if I could be in his state of fitness at his age, I'd be pretty happy. yeah I don't know if my bad back will last that long, but we'll see. Yeah, he's definitely giving us hope for what the future could look like. I think in the U.S., what you're saying, Amy, and I think it's so right, spot on, is that a lot of the mindset here is everyone will at some point become disabled in some way.
00:10:02
Speaker
Um, and we accept that as our norm and we don't challenge that. So we just expect the deterioration of ourselves as a normal process of life, which to some extent it is, but we don't do ourselves any favors when we are not aware of what we're consuming. Um, and we're kind of speeding up the process. So I think that's like, so on point and you and Edward both brought that up with the supplementation and then you also with like it being a reactive response to being sick. So.
00:10:31
Speaker
That's that's hot. Your guys response is hot. I have to say I think I'm like not in the middle. I'm more towards like really liking RFK but I am still a little in the middle there's some policies I really need to see how they pan out. Yeah I also I don't really know a ton about it so I shouldn't be speaking on it but I do think if he has a rhetoric around vaccines being bad weather like that whether whether he said that explicitly or whether he's just encouraging people to understand them I don't know but
00:11:05
Speaker
we are gonna be fucked if people don't vaccinate their kids. Like, so we do need to be careful with, and no I'm not saying all vaccines should happen all the time, but those vaccines literally did turn around like mumps and measles. yeah we don't We don't have deadly diseases because of those vaccines. So if everyone's, if it's gonna become the norm to not vaccine, and if he's gonna play a part in that, that could be problematic. Yeah, that's why I'm like, we gotta see how that pans out. But for the most part, it's looking good so far.
00:11:35
Speaker
Good.
Universal Wound of Grief
00:11:39
Speaker
and Okay, so onto the topic of today's podcast. We want to do something around grief because this is the wounded healers and grief is a bit of a universal wound. Most people will lose you know someone that they love.
00:11:59
Speaker
And Edvar is here today because he lost a very important person to him when he was younger. And we thought we could pick his brains on how that shaped his life and the person that he is today. So thank you for coming on, babe, because this is not many people would I think would be up for like getting into the depths of their soul about their father passing. So we really appreciate it. Oh, pleasure. Happy to help.
00:12:30
Speaker
so
00:12:32
Speaker
Okay, do you want to ask the first question, Janessa? Oh my goodness, okay. Kapow, kachow, here we go. That's last of the funny thing. Okay, so Edward, so the first question we had for you was, what is your earliest memory of your father? Yeah, so um just for for context, i I was born in France, hence um the abnormal name.
00:12:59
Speaker
But with that, I spent five years or so in France before I moved to the UK. And my earliest memory, I think, was I must have been a toddler at this point. But essentially my dad was mowing the lawn. It was a nice sunny day.
00:13:17
Speaker
and at the time he was so at my grand's place there's the main house and then you have like a little annex where my dad was staying and he was mowing the lawn doing all the the gardening and I was watching him just speed around this thing which was insane I thought he was like Superman or something um and coincidentally my French gran she was offering me a sweet and asking me to say please in French um And then during that day, I was just kind of following him around. He was showing me his harmonica. i'm I'm not sure if he could play very well. I think he just wanted to look really cool as a dad at the time. but Yeah, just showing me all the things and in the shed. And I remember his car being there as well. He had this amazing Lotus Super 7 as well.
00:14:09
Speaker
um sort of really detailed to be fair given how young I was but um yeah the memory really sticks out sort of how vivid it was um but yeah that's like the first major memory I have but the I guess the the bigger memory I have is when I just moved to the UK my dad came over and I I must have been about four four and a half at this point and he he came to pick me up outside of might my mum's place in Harley Whitney which is a small little traditional British town really cute look it up it's nice um but we went on this trip we stopped at his his hotel because my mum and dad weren't together at that point
00:14:52
Speaker
and we went for a trip around Windsor. windsors like this everyone how How would you describe Windsor? Most people will know Windsor. It's the big castle there so it's where and Harry and Meghan got married. If you remember that, they got married in the chapel at Windsor Castle so I think most people would recognise the town from that event.
00:15:13
Speaker
All right, don't want to assume. But no, I think probably one of my favorite memories is is that particular one because I remember it started to rain and we had our jackets without a hood. And we were walking down Windsor High Street and we sort of put the the coats over our heads and walking around looking really silly. I thought it was great. And yeah, following that, we went go-karting.
00:15:39
Speaker
um And I remember just being in the back seat kind of, he was just talking to me and we're being silly. So really nice memories to be fair. And I'm appreciative of how vivid it is and how long it's stuck in my brain because obviously with time memories fade, but obviously those were strong. So I've been fortunate enough to keep those.
00:15:58
Speaker
Wow. Thank you. I love the thought of your dad with the harmonica. I don't know why that came through very vividly. And just also because you're like, he was mowing the lawn and I know this isn't what you said, but I just pictured a really cool guy mowing the lawn and playing the harmonica. And I was like, we aren't ready for this. That's amazing. So cool. so um Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. And then how old help you tell everyone how old you are when he passed away?
Advaha's Childhood Memories
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah, so I just turned five, so I turned five in in January and he passed in April of 98. Yes, I was pretty young when it happened. I don't really remember the sort of precise moment when I sort of came to know about it, but yeah, I was pretty young.
00:16:48
Speaker
That's but so interesting too because I feel like sometimes we dismiss death with younger kids. Like we we think it will go and be less touching to them in some way because they're in other ways naive to the world around them. But I actually think there's such conduits of spirit that they actually are very impacted by by death and especially of a parent. so um it's interesting to hear you say that because it's just something I think we kind of think oh they're young they'll they won't remember this as much but but they do yeah yeah and I think that might also be why those memories are so vivid for you because you were so young and then you don't have any other memories of him from that point so I feel like sometimes memories can get saturated by all the other memories you have with that person but because those ones
00:17:41
Speaker
between you and him are really sacred because those are the only ones. And so I know you said you weren't quite sure about like the exact moment, but do you remember how you found out about your father's passing?
00:17:56
Speaker
So i I asked my my mum this so a couple of years ago and I think she had a really hard time kind of figuring out how to break the news. Just to say they'd separated at that point and things weren't as straightforward as as she would have probably liked. But from whether I must have overheard her talking or something, um apparently I was talking to my cousin and I was saying something like, nice I think my dad's passed away but it'll be fine. I think I must have sussed out something, overheard a conversation or whatnot but obviously I think when you're that age you probably think and you're like oh wow things will be fine but I definitely think as time
00:18:48
Speaker
passed on i started to mature and have a bigger understanding of the world things start to hit home a bit more but i think in that it was a i think it's a really weird time for such a thing to happen because you haven't really understood the concept of death in your mind you're just like you see someone on tv supposedly pass away but then next week they're they're back and yeah yes fish so i think i i must have figured it out or overheard something um but yeah there wasn't a distinct moment where i was like oh this has happened yeah that's something that's really interesting point that like you haven't had as much experience around death and like at that age um
00:19:32
Speaker
that's so interesting too because my other thought came from what it must be like to be a parent telling your child that because kids love to ask questions and it's just hard because it's something we even the adults don't fully know about you know where did they go well depends on what you think you know we can't quite you know straight face answer that so that's such like a you know interesting topic to have to breach with a with a child as well 100% I think it was hard for the entire family because I think my dad, from the French side of my family, he was the yeah he was the patriarch, he was the kind of the godfather, about keeping the family and directing it in a nice way, of course. um But yeah, I think and that was as heavy it was as it was for them. Obviously from from the English side of the family, it was like a massive, like, wow, that this is...
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, it'll be a bit comical, say plot twist, but yeah, it's a massive, a massive shift for them. And I think, I think for everyone, it would have been yeah massively hard to kind of, how would you convey such a thing to a child? So yeah, not easy, not easy. So speaking of all that family, was there anyone that you particularly remember was supporting you at that time or any like words that were said to you that you did find really comforting or?
Family Support After Loss
00:20:53
Speaker
I think there was a collective effort across the family to be present, so I think from my mum's perspective she was always trying to, I think, well obviously balancing a job and everything, I think she was doing everything she could to try and ensure that I still had the same opportunities and that I still, my life wasn't as impacted as it would be and i'm not sure how that would probably have looked from her perspective but i know that she she's an awful lot to try and keep me busy and i think from my grand's perspective she had a similar approach sort of taking like being actively involved in in bringing me up and again just allow me the opportunity to sort of socialize with other kids and really try and sponsor that just because i think sort of part of the
00:21:46
Speaker
One of the biggest things I think that helped me was having companionship at a young age because I didn't have any brothers. or but any direct brothers or sisters. um I think having friends at that point was was massive because it gave you another sense of sort of community in that regard. um But I think it was a collective effort across the family. I think everyone obviously tried to do what they could to ah say make sure I was doing okay without probably trying to raise the topic. I mean, if I look at it, the last thing you want to do is
00:22:23
Speaker
stir the pot and bring up something that you didn't want to but at the same time I think you just want to kind of help the kid out so yeah I think it goes back to what Janessa was saying earlier about like five is just such a difficult age to to manage something like this because Even if they were a bit older, you would be really like upfront with them and being like, you're going through something really hard. Let me help you. like Talk to me about it. But you don't say that to a five-year-old. like you don't you like it yeah You can't really talk to a five-year-old in that way. so
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, they probably, they probably took the right avenues just trying to like keep you busy and make sure you were like supported. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, that is, yeah, that is a lot. And I was also thinking that it's pretty amazing how resilient people can be within a family to like come together to create kind of that village impact of like, okay, we're focused on our, our family right now and we're, we're doing the best too.
00:23:24
Speaker
give you the opportunity to kind of like navigate in these situations. I love that. I really do. I think that's super special. Yeah. You a hundred percent have a village. Like when we first started dating, I would like, Oh, I'd just get to know like, Oh, his mum and grand. And then like he has, he's a really close to like his aunt and uncle and his cousin's like way closer than I think most people are with their cousins because of this.
00:23:48
Speaker
And then then he has a whole family of fraud. So they have like a ton of kids and he's just like, oh yeah, my uncle. And I'm like, which uncle is this? How many uncles do you have? Like, how many people do you have in your family? Like, oh yeah, there's definitely, you have a ton of people in your life. And i I think probably coming back to that question, probably in the initial term, there was that collective approach to kind of help me out in whatever way people could.
00:24:16
Speaker
um but I think obviously for my uncle, um I think of for him it was an extremely hard situation given the circumstances because he had a very close relationship with my dad and I think later in life particularly when I got to my teens and I was a bit more aware of not the repercussions of not having a father and sort of everything that comes with that. I think he certainly stepped up and was very empathetic and understanding of the situation and I think he came from the approach of sort of let's try and move forward, which I think was helpful because up into and sort of all those years, and I think even to today you have an element of I guess I'll figure this out or I wonder how others would do this. So I think he was really instrumental in kind of anchoring me, so to speak.
00:25:07
Speaker
That's beautiful. That's so beautiful because Amy taught me something called a living connection when my grandma had passed away and I think that that's your uncle using a living connection quite literally like you are a part of your father and it's not only is he helping you but he's helping his own brother. I think that's really special. I really wish more people would open their hearts like that and notice that like the relatives who are still here are still a part of the one you loved so that's special.
00:25:36
Speaker
so that that's that is heavy and that's that's hard especially you know getting to be a teenager and noticing the social dynamics around family and so during those times or any time during you know the processing of this in the beginning did you receive any professional counseling or therapy after your dad's passing i i didn't specifically um i think i think during the 90s therapy was still kind of a thing that was i don't know it was more of a prescribed thing but rather than ah something you do on your own accord and I didn't take any therapy I think yeah the approach was just kind of take each day as it goes and I think
00:26:20
Speaker
Obviously, I think if if something like that happened today, and then I think the approach would be make sure that child obviously sees someone and has an opportunity to really explore the emotions of it. But from my perspective, it was just, yeah, like I think just kind of cracked on.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's refreshing to hear that perspective too, because a lot of the times now I feel like we hear, yeah, I went right to therapy, but I know it can be kind of self-duming. If we don't go straight to therapy, we feel like, oh no, is something going to be wrong with me? Like, no, you've developed into a very wonderful human being. So that is really nice to see. And how, speaking of being a wonderful human being, how do you think your dad's absence affected your sense of self?
Impact on Identity and Self-Reflection
00:27:09
Speaker
when you're growing up at now? Yeah so I think I think this is probably the harder part when when you lose a parent at a young age I think obviously there's the it's not like a sudden awareness of right I'm never seeing this person again you kind of you hear it and you're like oh they've gone but it's only in the years that come after that that you begin to actually understand your situation and I think I think for the first few years because i had the I was very fortunate to become really good friends with with my buddy Ross. I had a bit of a distraction because when i when I'd stay at my grands, he lived next door. We'd go out and play all the time after school and whatnot. So I had that distraction. And I had that sense of support, which can be provided by other family members. But I think when I started to get but to about the age of maybe
00:28:08
Speaker
Maybe 10, I would say, it I think it started to hit home a little bit more. So I think there was a lot of identity issues in that respect because it you every day you think about things like that and you'd always be questioning sort of sort of how would how different would life be if um like if my dad was still around or sort of would i be making the decisions that i do so i think growing up one of the biggest things i've observed and i still do to this day is i'm almost looking at myself in a bit of a third-party perspective i'm always thinking
00:28:48
Speaker
i oh I wonder how different life would be and also I wonder if that decision was the right thing to take and there was a lot of trial and error growing up as to what is the right thing or what is the right way to act because I think particularly from I guess from a guy's perspective, when you don't have a dad around, you don't have that father figure to emulate or you don't have the guidance on certain situations and how you'd navigate that. So if there was ever conflict in school or sort of just general teenage problems, I was kind of, I don't really want to, I didn't feel comfortable going to my mum about it. So I kind of just keep it to myself. So I think, yeah, it it definitely creeps up. I think it's the biggest thing.
00:29:35
Speaker
And I think probably in my teenage years, that was when it was the most difficult. It was a lot of, a lot of pent up anger, a lot of frustration with my situation because again, I think undoubtedly you feel like you've been dealt a shorthand. And yeah, like I think people would often wonder why I was quite highly strong or sort of couldn't take a joke. But I think from my perspective, I just felt,
00:30:03
Speaker
so insecure about so who I was as a person because I didn't have that opportunity to yeah just confide and emulate and understand how how guys should be at that point in time. So there's a lot of figuring out. yeah wow that Yeah, those are definitely some challenges, and especially ah something I was thinking of, and don't I don't know what it's like in the UK, so let me know if there are any challenges you faced in this area. But with sports, in the US, sports are really like a father-son oriented experience, and they kind of marketed it that way. like we We always see that in like ads or whatnot.
00:30:41
Speaker
Is that the same in the UK and if so, like was that a challenge for you? Playing golf or any other sports? Yeah, so I think the every now and then I would have my moments where I was like, damn, that's that this is quite savage to to deal with um on the sports front. So I've played golf since I was 11 years old. And the traditional way kids get into golf is their dad plays. And of course, the dad wants to carry on playing golf. So they bring their kids down and their kids get addicted to it. um I kind of voluntarily just shot addict to yeah just put myself forward as tribute.
00:31:17
Speaker
and obviously i I love the game I still play to this day um but I think the hard part was like let's say you're it's the evening rounds you'd see the kids go out with their dads or there'd be the tournaments we between and I'd kind of just be like okay like I'm on the outside kind of figuring it out and I think it wasn't like it wasn't that a case that I was angry or upset I think it was just more of like a It's something I'm just not going to be able to experience. I just got to kind of rock and roll with it. say you didn't and You didn't dwell on it as much it sounds like. You can you kind of allowed that thought to come through but allowed it to pass through like a cloud.
00:32:00
Speaker
I think sometimes yes, sometimes less so. I think the one that was probably the harder one is I think I must have been about, and it's not so much related to sports, but you know when you're in school and it's like Mother's Day or Father's Day and you write the cards.
00:32:16
Speaker
And I just, I remember being like, and this is again, when I was in that period of kind of coming to terms with the whole thing and being like, miss, ito that's ah I So that is something my heart goes out to you for because totally different circumstances, not the same emotions around it, but.
00:32:34
Speaker
I grew up with a single mom, and so when it was Father's Day at the school, I just remember it being so awkward for me, and then I had two really good friends who also were raised by single moms, and we were like, thanks, grandpa. We, like, were running to our grandpas.
00:32:49
Speaker
And we were like, did you do that? I did my uncle. Yeah. yeah So again, no, no, like, super hard emotions attached to that for me. But like, I do remember that, that age, you kind of just feel like everybody's viewing each other, like for the first time. And you just feel like it's such a micro lens with your classmates and people around you so that can feel very like, oh, no, like, please don't notice I'm not writing down on this card. Yeah.
00:33:15
Speaker
This is it and I think it's just kind of those I think you just realize kind of how different things are compared to your peers at that time where maybe on the outset they seem to have everything and you're kind of like like I kind of want that but there's nothing I can really do about it and I think it's that not being able to do anything about it which led to a lot of frustration on my side because again it comes back to the aspect of sort of wanting more in your upbringing and my mum did an amazing job and supported me and gave me every opportunity that she anyone could ever do um but obviously it doesn't fill that hole that is really sort of important for for any child growing up so
00:34:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think the the sports element, it had its moments. It was, it got a bit savage at times where you're like, oh I can't do this tournament or whatnot. But I think there was a big, I kind of just tried to get on with it because really what else to say I can do, like, yeah.
00:34:27
Speaker
used it as motivat motivation to become an insanely good golfer. Yeah. He put that grief into his swing and now he plays another one, so. There you go. You channeled it, channeled it. um How did you navigate important life milestones like graduation or having relationships with girls without your dad? Yes, I think on the graduation side, I think From the age of sort of 18 onwards, when I really sort of started to become more of an adult, I think I was able to be a little bit more calmer with the situation. It wasn't like I was on graduation day going, oh, I wish my dad could be here and whatnot. I think I was a little bit more calmer about sort of how things were.
00:35:22
Speaker
um I think the moments where it's, as I say, it comes up more often than not is whenever I see a father and son having that interaction and that ability to just talk or laugh or mess about. I think that's for me the more kind of sobering element to it because you're kind of like, oh, I'd have loved to have that. But again, then I kind of bring myself back to it is what it is. There's nothing I can do and there's no point.
00:35:53
Speaker
getting hyper-fixated on it because that just takes me back to where I was as a teenager where I was say super highly strong and had a lot of this pent-up anger but I would try and keep to myself about it so it's not a healthy place to be.
00:36:09
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, no, that's important. You're pointing out that like so self-isolation is not the place to be. Like just don't do it very long, especially if you're grieving. And I think that leads kind of nicely because we have another question around grief of, you know, do you still feel like you're grieving your father's loss? And, you know, I'm wondering this because I feel like grief comes in waves or even sometimes is gone for a bit and comes back. Is that your experience? Yes, I think So when my dad passed, um obviously he was buried in France. And I think, so through my teenage years, I would kind of have periods where I'd feel like, oh, I would really crave that father figure, that having that relationship, because as I say, I'm very close to my mum, but I can't have the same relationship with my mum as I would with my dad.
00:37:03
Speaker
But I think what really probably hit home for me was probably going to his grade first time around. I think I was 17, 17 or 18, which is quite a long time. um My uncle didn't go just because it just, from his perspective, it didn't really serve him much. He felt like it would just be bringing up all these negative emotions. And he prefers to take a bit more of a holistic approach in that he's not confined to one spot.
00:37:28
Speaker
but I think going back to that was healthy because in a way it gave me closure but at the same time it was like shit this is ri reality like all these years you've had this concept that he's gone and whatnot but when you see the great site like damn right it's uh it's heavy but yeah and I think Yeah. So remind me the question. So I was, I went to fun about and you've done such a great job of answering that. We were talking about grief and just, you know, if you're still grieving the loss of your dad and pretty much what I'm hearing and let me know if that's right, is that it just kind of comes in waves and things that you see. I think you answered it really well when you said, when you see other father and son moments out there, there are these moments of that grief.
00:38:14
Speaker
Um, but like you said, you're really resilient and not making yourself self-isolate over that and ruminate in it. Um, so I think that's, that's like a huge nugget of wisdom for our listeners to not don't ruminate in it too, too long. And I think sort of going beyond that, I think the circumstances in which my dad passed away weren't very sort of typical. So
Revelation of Father's Murder
00:38:39
Speaker
unfortunately he, he was murdered. So I think.
00:38:42
Speaker
with that as you get older you naturally want to start exploring these things and you go online and you type it in and you're like holy hell like you just see it in a newspaper like i remember i remember like my aunt has a box full of all of these photos of the family literally going back to like world war one era where like it would be my great grandfather's um trench book like he would be documented anything that would happen and in in world war one And I was going through all these files, and then it comes up with all these articles about what happened with with my father. And you're just kind of sitting there like, I think I must've been about maybe 28, 29. And I was just like, this is insane. Because you you think you're kind of over something like that, but then you kind of revisit it back. And it's almost like you're going through that whole element of learning that your dad's past, or you're having at least ah a really hard reminder.
00:39:40
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, it is again, is is I don't think there's really a ah process to being out of grief. I think you just become better at dealing with it. And I think you but you're gonna go through periods where you fully accept it and you're good. And then next week something will happen, you'll be like, this sucks, what the hell? So I think, yeah, from my perspective, I'd probably say, yeah, I'm probably still,
00:40:12
Speaker
grieving in some ways, probably not in the traditional sense, but just kind of going through the motions of sort of dealing with the reminders and sort of the differences that my life took. But yeah, I mean,
Absence of Masculine Guidance
00:40:27
Speaker
I think I was exposed to an ungodly amount of death, I think, as a young child. I know I say that in, but my English grandpa died in 99 a year later.
00:40:41
Speaker
so I think what's probably unique about this situation and probably good for listeners is as a youngster I didn't actually have any kind of masculine father figure it was just my my mum and grandpa 99% of the time and I think again like from their perspective they were doing what they could to try and film the gaps but As I say, I think the difficulty is when you're a youngster like that, there's certain things that only a guy can kind of provide and direct and and show. And that kind of brings back to that whole aspect of just feeling a bit jaded where, I don't know.
00:41:20
Speaker
you wish you had that, you wish you had the guidance or you wish you could have confided in something about school or sort of things that are bugging you which yeah and I think sort of for the listeners out there um I would say yeah i I'd probably say just times your best ally whatever it really is like even like when you lose someone now you've just got to You just got to roll with it. It's unfortunately a part of life, but it's a process and I think it's completely normal even like 30 years after something's happened that it brings up raw emotions. and
00:42:02
Speaker
yeah yeah definitely that's something i'm gonna go a little off script here and feel free to answer as deeply as you want to but um so finding out the nature of your father's death that is really like that's so that's so big like i i think something that it brought up in my mind when you were saying you know the nature of his death was by murder is that I know people in my life who have lost parents to illness and it was a slow progression over time so it was like it was a mounting up. um I know people have lost people in car crashes so it was a sudden thing but I've never met someone besides you who has had a loved one taken away before their time by another human and for me that really like
00:42:52
Speaker
I don't know that it's like a really tender raw spot for me because I'm someone who I as a person am working through releasing but I would be really angry like personally and I wanted to know did you ever like struggle with that feeling knowing that that was a cause and effect action? Big time. I think in the teenage years aside I've alluded to it earlier in I think people would see me as kind of quite ah kind of a quiet, reserved person, but also quite highly strong. And I think the reality was I was just kind of figuring everything out by myself and didn't really have, I didn't feel that I had that ability to confide in people.
00:43:40
Speaker
um I think throughout my teenage years, obviously it's a volatile period, like as a guy there's so many changes. um I think as I got to maybe 17-18 I started to relax a bit and I think that's because I had the distraction of sort of new things to look forward to. I could start to drive, I could drink, I could do all these things and there was a bit of an escapism too to my reality and of course going to university and I think those were really healthy because it gave me an opportunity to be able to just go out on my own accord and sort of explore myself and who I am ah but I definitely yeah in my teens I could have I was I was quite
00:44:21
Speaker
Yeah, I was a bit of a brat at times. Um, like people would probably say I was overly sensitive, but I think it's just purely because I was just, yeah, had a lot going through my head. And I think it's again, completely normal. And one of those things I think probably therapy would have helped with as a younger point. But again, like in the 2000s, it wasn't really common practice. Yeah. It was still really taboo. I feel like even then to like have therapy to just help you.
00:44:47
Speaker
move through things i feel like it was seen as like psychiatric like mostly for mental conditions yeah yeah and you were you were a little bit of a fighter sometimes yeah he he didn't not get into fights oh what yeah the so i think car i think growing up in uh an english school being half french um fortunately i i was opening myself up for um sort of a bit of banter and whatnot but of course that would go a bit too far at times and I think whenever it was an attack on my french side I would automatically assume that as being a a bit of a personal attack towards my french family my dad so I think that kind of fueled it um which saw me yeah I'd kind of lash out at people and they'd be like wow it's just a joke and I'm like wow it's not so many and of course maybe feel like a bit of a dark horse at times because ah people would just be like
00:45:45
Speaker
kind of can't really figure you out but yeah i think that I think that's probably one of the hardest elements is definitely dealing with all the the emotions and not having someone to be able to confide in and kind of anchor myself my because they would probably just said like relax you're fine but I just not having someone directly say that that comes from the perspective of a father like anyone else could say it but it probably wouldn't have the same effect yeah you're definitely bringing up another really important thing i just want to highlight because you've said it so well is that you know that the dynamic of not having a masculine energy be it grandfather or father in your life
00:46:31
Speaker
Sometimes it forces people to step into that masculine role within the family you know within the family dynamic. So it sounds to me like you may have been the one who had to step up in that role and that's hard because you don't want to I hate to use this word because it's not true, but I think people feel like they're a burden when they bring their um their hurt or their anger into the feminine space, especially if it's a masculine person. So ah that's a whole other dynamic that could be a whole other episode, but I just want to point out that that's a heavy thing to carry and um and'm like ah yeah I'm really proud of you for for the way you've dealt with that and your family dynamic and deal with that.
00:47:16
Speaker
I appreciate it, thank you. Do you think there are positive lessons that you learned from your dad or even positive learnings from him not being here that you've taken on into your life? I think
Positive Lessons from Loss
00:47:36
Speaker
growing up I can actually ask about my dad sort of like how he was just in the in the normal world.
00:47:44
Speaker
um
00:47:47
Speaker
And to some degree, i can i I could perhaps see glimpses of that through my memories. But I think i think the positive element is, I think I'd say I'm quite a resilient guy. When it comes to really topics that are deep or when things when shit hits the fan, I'd say my superpower is being able to just at least get things done. um And I think,
00:48:18
Speaker
I think probably growing up from a young age, I think probably the biggest lesson I learned is the fact that you've just got to be very grateful for what you do have because things can change in a heartbeat. um So I think a lot of my lessons learned were a consequence, probably less so directly from my father, but more of an appreciation of sort of how things can be um and I think at times I was able to at least offer some guidance to friends when they were going through hard times when it maybe it was a divorce or or whatnot but I think yeah the I think there's a probably the biggest thing is what I've noticed as I've gotten older is I felt like I had to really achieve something and prove myself and demonstrate that I could do things
00:49:06
Speaker
So whilst I feel like I'm in a very fortunate position as I am now, I think that probably the negative aspect to that is I feel like I had to prove something and I had to do something and I had to show up, um which has its own drawbacks. But I think the biggest thing, the positive I've learned is just to be kind of grateful for what you what you really do have. Like when parents were friends of mine, they were going through divorce, I'd be like, look, it sucks, but like,
00:49:35
Speaker
there's always the other reality kind of thing. And it's like, just remember that they they still care about and you still have access to them. Um, so that's, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing I would say. I think you're really like, you have a lot of autonomy as well. Like you're really independent and you are confident in the decisions that you make and you really stand by your own decisions and you really trust your own mind.
00:50:05
Speaker
And I think that's probably come from the independence you had to have when you were like growing up. And I think that's a strength. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. Cause some people are you, me. I can't even like make a sandwich without being like, mum, dad, what do you think? What should I have in my sandwich? Which isn't, that's not necessarily like a healthy form of attachment. So I think you're, yeah, I think here there's that there's, I've noticed that as well.
00:50:34
Speaker
What? What? Oh, Well, wow. So we're wrapping up here and this last question is, I feel like this one kind of is is really touching and, you know, I'm interested to hear what you have to say, but it says, if you could talk to your dad today, what would you want to ask him? Hmm. Yeah, where to stop? Yeah. It's like, dad, what have you done this 15 years ago? um
00:51:08
Speaker
i think I think probably the biggest question I would have is like am i am I doing things right kind of thing I think because that's kind of the thing you look to to a dad you always ask them like you can find them on like big talking subjects and the their approvals is important for for any kid. um And I think I would just be asking like, am I on the right track? Am I kind of doing as I should? And probably that speaks to a lot of sort of insecurities on my side in terms of am I like trusting myself and whatnot? But I think the reason I ask that is because ultimately it just gives me that grounding I'm after.
00:51:58
Speaker
I mean, there's 101 questions I'd go down into like, sort of like, did you ever try and play golf or like, all of these things. um I think that's the biggest thing that comes to mind. Cause yeah, like I just would, would love to have made him proud really. That's, that's the biggest thing. So yeah.
00:52:22
Speaker
really I, I'm going to, yeah. So you, yes. Yeah, I mean, yes. You're like, genuinely like, yes. Anyway, sorry, Amy, take it away. No, he, yeah, he couldn't, he couldn't not be proud. It would be impossible for him to not be proud of you. Everybody's very proud of you. And I was going to say, I asked his dad something once. Oh. Do you, Edvall might not remember, but when we went to, so I think I've spoken on the podcast before about how I believe that we can like communicate with people who have passed away through like symbols and signs and stuff like that. So when Edouard took me to go to his dad's grave when we were in France I was like kind of talking to his dad in my mind and I was like can I have a sign like if you think me and Edouard are right or like not if you like approve of me but
00:53:15
Speaker
and you know anyone when you're like meeting their parent you would like want to get their approval or like have and have a nice moment with them. So we were like in the graveyard and I was like just make it like a really obvious like make a flower really obvious like that I'll know it's 100% you and that you're like happy that we're here together.
00:53:35
Speaker
And we were in, it was like in the heat of the summer, it was really, really hot. Like walking through this graveyard and it was all, that there was, it was like grass, but it was like kind of growing out grass. um And like just in front of Edouard's dad's grave, there was this like random, the only one, this like white flower like growing out of the ground just in front of his grave. And like there wasn't any other like foliage growing apart from obviously like people put flowers on grapes but like in terms of like a a living flower it was the only one I was like come nice to meet you so thanks that is so beautiful that's so beautiful uh also okay I just want to quickly add in though that I think and of course this is just not a question but I had to put it out there
00:54:23
Speaker
that I think it would be really interesting to see and know, you know, now that you're so aware of what a father figure can provide and the scenarios that are really necessary for a kid's development, I think that's a really beautiful thing if you ever become a dad or want to become a dad because you're going to have such a leg up on so many people in the world who are not self-aware of the role a dad plays. And because you have felt the absence of that role, I think you would step into it.
00:54:53
Speaker
just with 100% like full dad mode. And I think that is so beautiful. Yeah, I think it'll be, oh, I guess should I be lucky enough? um I think it'll be very, I think it'll be like a nice full circle healing, like to be able to go through that and offer something that I didn't necessarily have. And yeah, I think it'll be quite healing.
00:55:21
Speaker
um But yeah, so... Sorry I sprung that one on you. I know that's a big one. No, no, it's all. I can just see it now. It's beautiful. I agree. I've always thought that.
00:55:37
Speaker
Babe, thanks so much for coming and being so open and honest and just your usual self of emotional depth and, yeah,
00:55:50
Speaker
yeah so I ah don't have any magic words of wisdom I don't think there ever is but yeah I think it's just I think it's unique for everyone and how they go through and how they process it and I think from my perspective I feel like mine's probably been a very mine's been a lot slower just because it happened at such an earlier stage of my life but I think yeah it's all unique to everyone else i think just talking about it really helped me in with people i could trust of course um really getting into the deeper elements of it and i think i was very fortunate to have opportunities to do sports as a kid i think that was massive for me because it just got me out of the house i mean
00:56:42
Speaker
seen all these crazy statistics about kids, fabulous kids who get into a lot of trouble. yeah And um I think golf was a massive anchor just to keep me sort of on the straight and narrow and focused on something positive.
00:56:58
Speaker
um But yeah, as I say, I'm happy to answer any questions. So see if you guys get any. OK. Well, thank you so much, Edouard. Like seriously, thank you so much. And before we came on, we were just discussing. It's been like two years since I've seen your face. And even though we're virtual, it's just like it's like we're just taking off where we left off. You're just such a kind spirit. And ah it's just really special to have you on. And it's beautiful to see.
00:57:27
Speaker
You and Amy together on the other side of the screen. I love you both. So thank you. Thank you. All right. All right. My pleasure. but You can come back on again and talk about something else. Happily. We'll do a golf episode. No, we won't do that. I would have so much to learn. I only know this mini golf. That's it. That's my extent.
00:57:50
Speaker
Although I did lose Amy at mini golf. I'm actually sick of mini golf, yeah. And he's actually not very good at mini golf. I was very humbled, yes. Oh yeah. No, it was a fluke, it was a fluke. That's the thing with mini golf, it can really be a fluke, can't it? Yeah, it can. It's rigged. I reckon you've secretly been practicing in the background. No. If we were at top golf, that would be a very different story. It would be a very different story.
00:58:16
Speaker
All right, y'all. Well, I guess we're going to wrap it up and we hope you, you know, I think you do have tons of wisdom in this episode, Edward. So I was like, oh, you got nuggets in there for sure. So enjoy those nuggets of wisdom, everybody. And we are wishing you all well. We're going to look forward to seeing you back here in two weeks. And until then, remember to let the light in. Woo! Bye. Bye.